Kevin’s hard-line asylum policy

Kevin Rudd’s hard-line policy to deal with asylum seekers is both decisive and divisive

Kevin’s hard-line asylum policy

The country waited with bated breath on Friday to find out how Kevin Rudd planned to deal with asylum seekers and his hard-line policy is both decisive and divisive.

Under the Government’s new policy, those trying to arrive in Australia other than through legitimate channels, i.e. by boat, to seek asylum, will not, under any circumstances, be settled in this country. Instead they will be sent to Papua New Guinea (PNG) for processing, which will result in them being resettled in PNG, resettled in a third country, or sent back to where they came from.

To accommodate the growing number of asylum seekers being sent to the Manus Island detention centre, the facility, which had an original capacity of 600 people, will be upgraded to house 3000. The cost and timescales of this upgrade are not yet currently known. Asylum seekers may also be detained elsewhere in PNG.

The agreement will remain in place for at least the next 12 months at least and there is no limit to the number of people who can be sent to PNG for processing. In an announcement made on Saturday, Kevin Rudd also put a $200,000 bounty on the heads of people smugglers.

Under growing pressure to deal with the issue of boats trying to reach Australian shores and some coming to grief and resulting in a rescue or loss of lives, Kevin Rudd said that the agreement was, "part of a multi-layered approach to dealing with the scourge of people smuggling".

Coalition leader Tony Abbott initially welcomed the plan and stated that a Coalition Government would look to continue the agreement, however, he did cast doubt on the current Government’s ability to implement and manage the plan, “it won't work under Mr Rudd.”

"Let's face it, this is Labor's fifth go at getting it right and while this certainly is a very promising development in offshore processing, it is about processing boat people, it's not about stopping the boats and that in the end is what we have to do.”

The policy has also come under fire from human rights campaigners and Green’s leader Christine Milne, who said that Kevin Rudd has now "leapfrogged Tony Abbott on cruelty".

"This is really an appalling performance and it really does say to the rest of the world that Australia is a very rich country which is prepared to pass the buck to a very poor country because a Prime Minister doesn't have the courage or the moral authority to do the right thing by refugees,” said Christine Milne.

Human rights advocate David Manne was surprised by Mr Rudd's hard-line stance saying, "I am surprised on a number of fronts, first and foremost because Australia, having signed up to the Refugees' Convention in 1954, committed to protecting people who come to its shores, not exposing them to further risks elsewhere," he said. "In this case, a country that is far less well equipped to respond and accommodate to the needs of refugees."

Read the full story at ABC.net.au 

Opinion: Simply passing the buck

‘The buck stops here’ are words not likely to be uttered by Kevin Rudd on his asylum seeker policy, he’d much rather make it someone else’s problem.

Kevin Rudd had a blinder of a week in politics. Not only has he seemingly brought the car industry in Australia to a grinding halt with his cost recovery proposal for replacing lost carbon tax revenue, but he’s also dealt a crushing blow to Australia’s human rights reputation. Rather than devise a policy by which Australia fulfils its agreed humanitarian commitments by processing and accepting asylum seekers, as agreed in the Refugees Convention of 1954, he has simply washed his hands of the problem and passed the buck to the ‘super power’ which is PNG. How can he expect a nation of 7.1 million predominantly Christian people, which has a question mark over its own political stability, to adequately house and process the thousands of adherents to Islam who risk their live trying to escape harsh conditions in their own countries?

If a wealthy, politically stable country such as Australia cannot house and process asylum seekers in a timely and humanitarian manner, can we really expect that the small, evolving nation of PNG can? Australia ranks second on the Millennium Human Development list, with PNG a poor 156th. The national also has 50 per cent unemployment, yet is expected to be able to rehome those looking for a better life.

While PNG’s Prime Minister, Peter O’Neill, is confident that his nation can resettle genuine refugees, how will it deal with those deemed not worthy? Send them back to their own country? As many asylum seekers flee without paperwork, how will it know where to country to send them back? And how will a predominantly Christian country deal with a growing number of Muslim refugees? Will it simply find a reason to refuse citizenship to such people? Or will it simply say enough is enough and back out of the agreement?

But of course, all this is overshadowed by the poor conditions on Manus Island, which is expected to house these poor unfortunates. Manus Island may well be earmarked for an upgrade, but this will take time and money. And in the meantime the conditions, which were recently criticised in an unfavourable review by a United Nations committee, will continue to be substandard and inadequate. So inadequate are the conditions that children under seven years of age cannot be held there. Could this lead to an increased number of illegal boats carrying children to help secure their passage to Australia?

I can’t help but think that this is yet another case of Kevin opting for policy on the run; better to be seen to do something than nothing. It’s a quick fix aimed at silencing the Opposition on one of its major election campaigning issues. But while Tony Abbott may need to take some time to regather his thoughts, the people of Australia should be shouting their outrage from the rooftops.

Is Kevin on the right path with his asylum seeker policy? Or will it come back to bite Australia on the bum?





    COMMENTS

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    22nd Jul 2013
    11:05am
    Typical Krudd. No one will say how much all this will cost. The arrangement is only for 12 months. We build millions of dollars worth of accomodation then PNG stops taking the boat people. Do we keep them in luxury for the rest of their lives? Is any labor member capable of working out the cost. What idiots. Good at spending taxpayers money despite the cost.
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    11:58am
    Rudd said the exercise will be revenue neutral.
    sensible senior
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:41pm
    egyptian HA HA HA why wont he tell us all the details
    Mary
    22nd Jul 2013
    4:47pm
    Maybe This will cause a new lot of people smugglers -only difference is they won't have to travel so far - just back from PNG - our northern borders are not well protected -
    Acushla
    23rd Jul 2013
    5:30am
    Surfer, Rapes of women and trafficking of children is also pandemic in PNG. Rudd knows this.
    carmencita
    23rd Jul 2013
    3:04pm
    Acushla........I think that's the idea-----to scare those boat people----and then that will stop them from being persuaded by people smuggler. If they still insist in spite of the known conditions, then they're too dumb and it's their fault what happens as a consequence ..........If this policy will scare them enough, then we don't have to worry about costs....but then stupidity is a common .
    Anonymous
    25th Jul 2013
    12:26am
    Wow..... all of a sudden we are hearing about how GOOD refugees are AND how terrible it is in PNG.

    The Corporate (foreign) Owned Media are playing with you folks.

    Since the Howard days with 'babies overboard' - this same Corporate Owned Media has been telling us what terrible, terrible people these Refugees are and that they are dreaded Muslims, coming to take over our country and our laws.

    Now, because Rudd comes up with a solution, that will give people a country to live in, where they are very much needed in that country, all hell breaks loose and all of a sudden we are no longer hearing about the dreaded Muslim take over or the terrible, nasty refugees. We are hearing about the WONDERFUL refugees that will be harshly treated IF they go to PNG.

    Many of these STORIES of PNG relate to people who still live primitively in the wilds (e.g.. Cannibalism) and not the cities. YOU could DREG up many of the same horror stories if you went to the USA and recorded the worst of their crimes which there are a lot, lot more than in PNG!

    Now tell me Surfer, inSensitive senior, and other people who where screaming the loudest about 'turning back the boats' of dreaded Muslims........WHY are you NOT happy, now? They are not coming to Australia!

    Would you too be simply BIASED and opposition MOUTHS....I think so....

    Bit hypocritical ..... absolutely...BUT you don't care, you sprout whatever is necessary, aye.
    from the nanny state
    26th Jul 2013
    7:47am
    Mary your comment was spot on.....
    MITZY
    26th Jul 2013
    9:20am
    S.S. In response to your HA HA HA the facts are there if you wish to take the time to find them. I'm finished looking facts up on your behalf seeing as you pick the eyes out of them. And, as far as what I mentioned in my post below where you indicate I TALK A LOT OF ROT and then agree with me, I think your thinking is becoming unclear and you are stressing yourself out just to keep making a point about anything I say.
    sensible senior
    26th Jul 2013
    9:37am
    egyptian AGAIN PLEASE EXPLAIN0 how is it revenue neutral and what facts have you looked up on my behalf JUST LIKE THIS GOVERNMENT ANSWER THE QUESTION. p.n.g. will be given a lot of money to fix up roads, hospitals, our aid to them is now controlled by them. rudd wont come clean and how much is involved. i am not stressing never have and never will, i keep a clear head . the only thing i agree with you is the no vote what other. perhaps you should not have said that you talk a lot of rot because everyone is entitled to their opinion and i have a very high i.q. so i value mine. cheers. WHY CANT I MAKE A POINT ABOUT WHAT YOU SAY YOU MAKE A POINT ON WHAT I SAY AND I DONT CARE
    MITZY
    26th Jul 2013
    10:57am
    S.S. Read your 4th last line above: QUOTE: perhaps you should not have said that you talk a lot of rot....UNQUOTE:
    It was you who said I talk a lot of rot. I disagree.
    I don't file and/or keep these daily posts to go back over them, but mostly when you ask a question and nobody answers it, I try to. Quite often you have come back to me and said "thanks". The "how many boats came in under Howard" in big bold print was the most current question I answered and the response afterwards was unenlightening and I decided I wasn't going to bother with facts/statistics again. I'm pleased you have a very high i.q. and value it, but it all depends how you apply it.

    22nd Jul 2013
    11:06am
    Please Tony, Put Mr. Sheen out of his misery and stop the boats.
    heyyybob
    22nd Jul 2013
    11:26am
    Hi Surfer. Obviously your mate 'Tony' has told you how he will do it ;) Please share the good news with the rest of us :D
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    12:06pm
    I note the "Coalition of the Willing" is the cause of all these boat people and economic refugees landing on our shores as well as in the USA/UK. and whatever else we like to call them. They are coming because we invaded their countries.
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:03pm
    A writer to the SMH indicated a few weeks ago that it was no longer "stop the boats" anymore. The new slogan is "bop the stoats".

    Anyhow Surfer you've got your wish in a round-about way from a different angle.
    Rudd is doing what Abbott said he would do, he's pinched one of Abbott's major policies for winning the forthcoming election. I guess, that's why Politicians in Opposition don't like to announce polices too soon and/or the costing of same.
    foot
    22nd Jul 2013
    3:39pm
    As I've said before subcontract picking up boats to DOCKSIDE who pick up yachts in the water and deliver them all over the world.
    foot
    22nd Jul 2013
    4:00pm
    Sorry I meant DOCKWISE
    sensible senior
    24th Jul 2013
    9:53am
    egyptian YOU TALK A LOT OF ROT. you are right about labor party pinching ideas from the coalition. because they have none themselves. just look back on what rudd said before the 2007 election and afterwards
    Anonymous
    25th Jul 2013
    12:33am
    insensible senior

    You, YOURSELF, Talk a Lot of Rot tooooooooooo. You a COALITION supporter dear! I think so, don't you.

    Dress it up how you like, you are a hypocrite. One minute, you speak of turning back the boats and how terrible refugees are, especially muslims BUT NOW, they are AOK and Rudd is terrible.

    Get a grip. That idiot is too busy doing his normal and pathetic WHINY WHINGING - SAYING "NOTHING" as NORMAL - to come up with any solutions.

    The Opposition and the Corporate Media have gone into overdrive because they have to discredit this solution somehow.........

    What a very biased, hypocritical, and unsensible, old boy you are!
    sensible senior
    25th Jul 2013
    8:15am
    Mussitate is that the best you can do. first i am not a he i am a she. secondly liberal supporter at the moment yes yes yes because i think that this government stinks. i do believe in the coalitions policy and now that all the details are coming out with the p.n.g. solution what solution it is starting to fall down not because of the media but because the way it was done it would never work. and why should png say how our aid money and lots of it to them is going to be distributed will this stop the boats NO still coming in the rate of knots. i have not said how terrible refugees are especially muslims, i dont hate muslins or anybody for that matter I HATE SHARI LAW AND ALL IT STANDS FOR. The idiot i presume you mean Tony Abbott well i would rater have that idiot in charge than your mr. rudd who is all spin and no substance. at least the ministers under tony abbott do not say what a horrible control freak he is not to mention the us.s. past diplomats and can mr. rudd swear dont show that to his adoring fan club of children. i worked for a union a long time ago and once voted for a proud labor party but could i do it now definately NOT. i consider you to be a very NASTY bigoted person but thats just my opinion . YES I DO SAY TURN BACK THE BOATS IF IT WILL STOP THEM COMING I HAVE HAD ENOUGH I WANT AUSTRALIA BACK AND I DONT APOLOGISE FOR THAT
    Richard
    22nd Jul 2013
    11:24am
    I can't help but feel there's a whole lot of whinging and whining going on here. The key problem is people are taking unacceptable risks in dangerous boats to get to Australia, and doing so in complete disregard of our immigration and refugee resettlement policies. It seems that whatever action is taken to dissuade people from this course of action, correspondents like yours can't resist the temptation to whinge. Complaints about the policy abound, but as usual no suggestion as to what can be done instead. It seems to me that there are two things the Australian people are looking to the government to deliver on in this area. The first is that we continue to take our quota of legitimate refugees. The second is that we put an end to the people smuggling business. If you're going to complain about what others are doing to address these issues, then explain how your ideas would be more effective. And if you can't do that, then stop whinging.
    heyyybob
    22nd Jul 2013
    11:27am
    With you Richard :)
    AmandaR
    22nd Jul 2013
    12:18pm
    I am going to have a whinge. This is not a humanitarian response to the issue of asylum seekers coming to Australia by boat. Both sides of politics show no shame in their response to this issue. Both sides of politics are responding to the scaremongering - started in the Howard years - that all asylum seekers coming to Australia by boat have sinister motives to undermine Australia's security, financial, employment and political systems. I am deeply saddened that the Labor Party has sunk to the level of the Coalitions campaign to 'stop the boats'. I expected a more humanitarian response. Increasing quotas and improving processing times would be a good start.
    Troubadour
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:20pm
    Totally agree Richard
    geomac
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:22pm
    Yes AmandaR , both sides are playing to the crowd . Crocodile tears about drownings while creating new slogans .
    Lady Tracey
    22nd Jul 2013
    2:30pm
    Well said Richard! Agreed and pity more dont see the 'real issues' here as you have just stated!
    Wstaton
    22nd Jul 2013
    4:18pm
    Yes Richard you are right. What people are forgetting is that we are confirming to our obligations (was 25,000 LEGAL refugees last year) These people land in Indonesia where they are not subjected to their home countries atrocities. They should stay their and go through the legal channels like everybody else not try to jump the queue. These people also seem to have the money (reckoned to be $10000 and up) to pay for their trip not withstanding that they also seem to have the airfares to get to Indonesia. Now they know that they are not going to get to Australia maybe this will put a halt to it.
    Richard
    22nd Jul 2013
    6:51pm
    Amanda, I'm in your court when you say we need a humanitarian response. But where we diverge is that I don't think that having a weak border policy which encourages refugees to expose themselves to exploitation by organised criminals is a humanitarian response. I do agree with you that processing applications more quickly would be a good start.

    When it comes to asylum seekers from Iran, which is not in a state of war, my recommendation would be that so-called asylum seekers who arrive without documentation or evidence of abuse should just be sent back to Iran - by the end of the week in which they arrive. Problem is, as I understand it, Iran won't take them back. So what do we do now? Let them stay in Australia? How does that dissuade others?

    I like the PNG solution as the most humanitarian response. It's a country at peace, for a start, so people may live there without fearing persecution. But then, who would want to expose themselves to organised criminals in the shipping business just to get to PNG? If the answer is no-one, then chances are that they will be discouraged from the attempt. By all means let's continue to be generous with taking refugees, through the proper processes.
    student
    23rd Jul 2013
    11:39am
    Amanda and Richard, I agree. However Iran is still not a safe country. People needing to leave can not obtain a passport, so start on a dangerous journey to (maybe) safety. It amazes me that people would see Australia as a 'safe' place when there is so much bitterness and hatred towards asylum seekers. You're right Richard, Iran wont take asylum seekers back but maybe they have been abused and terrorised because of their religion. But Papua New Guinea frightens me too. The people have nothing and that includes a stable government. I fear the people will turn on the detention camps and the asylum seekers meaning we, Australia, will have to send police or the army to keep peace in a foreign (hostile) country. I know the do-gooder attitude ( meaning mine) is unrealistic as there are too many asylum seekers in the world . Do we have time to find the cause of this problem and try fixing it??

    I have just remembered ... a few years ago I was very disappointed in the government of the time (LNP) and and was going to sell up and move o/s. Problem 1. No passport :)
    Problem 2 .. only speak English
    Problem 3... how could I take my dog??
    Problem 4.... I hate flying
    Problem 4 ... I get sea sick in the bath!

    I chose to stay here :)
    MITZY
    24th Jul 2013
    9:53am
    W.staton: Not all refugees are underprivileged or poorer workers. Due to the conflicts in their countries people earning high incomes and people in businesses have had their homes and businesses destroyed by the conflicts. They flee with whatever they can salvage and then as happens in countries all over the world (even those countries without conflict) use their "position" to their own benefit and survival. It's wrong, but as we know "s..t" happens. People with influence can always find a way to circumnavigate.
    Bebejayne
    24th Jul 2013
    10:19am
    Agree - especially as a lot of these so-called boat people are destroying their id/papers - who knows who they are & they're history. [plus a few of the countries they're 'escaping' from aren't actually at war - eg Sri Lanka & they just want to escape poverty] PM Rudd giving the best option at present - just so long as they don't start sneaking in via Thrusday Is etc. Yes our border protection is very inadequate. We take a huge number [those that come legally] per capita compared to other countries. We need to improve border protection & also concentrate on our own homeless etc - in a place like Aus there shouldn't be anyone living on the street - take care of our own first
    unicorn
    22nd Jul 2013
    11:37am
    Why should we be bombarded with these illegals? I say Illegals because if you or I were to travel anywhere without the correct paperwork we would be shipped off to somewhere other than where we would be trying to go. Would there then be a whole lot of people saying "oh poor little Australians...and all that garbage. No they would be laughing at us like most reckon they are anyway. And I would not expect any different treatment in fact if I was trying to go to Syria or Indonesia I would expect to probably be shot.
    Troubadour
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:25pm
    Exactly right - I just said almost the same this morning. Would we get into any other country without the correct visas and paperwork - NOT AT ALL.
    My husband even had problems in Vietnam because someone had mis-spelled our surname and the two lots of paperwork did not tally!!!
    Flowers
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:25pm
    True, True. I totally agree with you, Unicorn.
    student
    23rd Jul 2013
    11:49am
    maybe if Australia was at war with a neighbour and had internal civil unrest, we would be seeking asylum in another country.

    Let's face it, Syria is not stable, and Indonesia , like other countries, has laws concerning entry. If death be the penalty (which it's not) then you have to abide by those laws. Syria and Indonesia do not give protection to asylum seekers but Australia does.
    SuzB
    22nd Jul 2013
    11:41am
    With you also Richard. It is about time this stopped being a political issue. "Commentators'" political leanings are obvious and they display a complete lack of the "christian" humanity that they allegedly want to 'preserve'. I sometimes wonder what the world wars were about when we appear to have so many red-necks who seem to want a return to the awful 'white Australia policy'. What hypocrites!
    student
    23rd Jul 2013
    11:50am
    love it!!!! Good onya Suz :)
    Fred
    22nd Jul 2013
    11:51am
    The majority of Australians are not racist or afraid of these people, we simply object to the amount of money spent on them. People claim that Australia is a rich country but we the working population don't see it that way.
    At what point will the refugee lovers say enough- 100,000. 500,000, a million?
    What will happen in this country when they bring their problems with them?
    heyyybob
    22nd Jul 2013
    12:18pm
    No problem Fred. We will house/train them and put them into really solid jobs - say in the auto production plants, or in manufacturing or all those other great occupations that are ....... wait a minute ! They are on the way out aren't they. Well, we can suggest they join all of those workers who have lost their jobs after years of service and paying taxes etc. Then they can try and get 3 or 4 casual jobs (4-5 hours each) a week, for years, to try and support their families/work through uni etc etc. No problem, hey ?
    student
    23rd Jul 2013
    11:59am
    heyyybob, it wasn't so long ago that 'these people' as you call the asylum seekers, were working in slaughter houses (abattoirs because Australian wouldn't work there! Also, 'these people' often have unsteady work to support their family .. like stalls in the local markets. They pay taxes and are good decent people. Those that do not have work are not lazy, work is not easy to find when you don't have the language skills required, that's why a lot do low paying jobs like cleaners etc. They work (and don't take jobs away from Aussies) and pay taxes. A few bad apples give bigots ammunition to shoot them all.
    yippie
    22nd Jul 2013
    11:51am
    Glad to see someone has finally got the balls to do something about the problem besides just taking about it.Firstly I do not vote for either Krudd or Big ears since we have preselection.But this fix should be retrospective since Kruddy started the problem way back
    Ted
    22nd Jul 2013
    12:04pm
    Obviously this is going to be an emotionally charged issue that everyone has their opinion on and rightly so. I think another comment on this issue I read on another article was that if they were all genuine refugees and conditions were that terrible then the whole nation would flee not just the young fit men that seem to be the majority. Many reports have pointed out many of them are actually fleeing due to protesting or other crimes.

    At a recent Government consultation I went to here in Brisbane a Muslim lady who works for one of the Muslim Woman's association stated that she wanted information about what is available in the way of services etc written in Arabic etc and given to refuges before they get on the boat! This opens up a whole can of worms as it shows that it is a deliberate and planned act as well as many other things.

    My objection is this. Our seniors who have made this country what it is, are suffering greatly due to Government changes and cutbacks, yet we always have money for resettling refugees. Refugees receive a $10, 000 white good package, as well as accommodation and so on. As a tax payer I cannot access services my taxes pay for, nor can seniors who have given so much to this country, because the system is clogged up with refugees who have their hands out from they leave Indonesia.

    Next I also object to the fact that they are now deliberately sinking ships to ensure the Navy will come and get them. Jump up down as much as you like but the fact is that this is a situation that people on the boats have created themselves, so why is it any of our business? If they are not in Australian waters why is it more our responsibility than any other country? Why isn't the New Zealand Navy rescuing them? Why isn't the Indonesian Navy patrolling their own waters and sending them back? International waters mean any navy can assist, not just Australia.

    It simple, if anyone is passing the buck it is Indonesia. It is a safe port, there is no reason for people to flee from there. There is only one reason and that is because of the welfare system here and we all know it is. Any other country they would be shot, or put in prison or would just disappear! Why is it that Australia is the only country that seems to be held accountable for these people fleeing safety?

    It makes no sense other than the Indonesian Government are making it happen. They are the ones who are not stopping the boats and we have tried to work with them to get their cooperation. To stop them coming we need to remove the incentives and this is what Krudd is starting to say. Remove the handouts and the cushy accommodation and make sure they know they will never get refugee status and resettled. Time will tell if this is effective. Just remember when you say about boat people and rights remember if they drown then its their choice and no one should be held accountable. Keeping the boats coming means more deaths!
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    12:13pm
    Agree with a lot of what you say, however in the case of Indonesia they are not a signatory to the UN refugee charter. Indonesia is a "transit" country. These people in their thousands upon thousands walk from their countries knowing that Indonesia is a "transit" country and the place they must arrive at to get on those shonky boats.
    Wstaton
    22nd Jul 2013
    4:31pm
    Yes Egyptian, But why is Indonesia accepting the people in the first place. They could just deny them entry and send them back to the country they embarked from. I doubt it was the country they are fleeing from especially if it is from an airport.
    There is some glimmer on the horizon though, as Indonesia has stopped issuing visas to so called Iranian refugees on arrival.

    We did have a period when there were genuine refugees (Vietnam) did start arriving by boat and we did take them in and they have proved quite a asset to our country. Unfortunately now one doesn't know if one is a refugee or not as people are now taking advantage of our good past nature.
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:28pm
    Wstaton:
    UNHCR: (the UN Refugee Agency - 2013 South East Asia Region:

    The Philippines is the only State in South East Asia that is party to the 1954 Convention related to Status of Stateless Persons. Nobody in the region has signed the 1961 Convention.
    However, ALL STATES in the sub-region (incl. Indonesia) have signed the Convention on the "rights of the child" and the Convention on "all forms of descrimination against women". (Hence why we receive by boat so many woman and children).
    Because there is no legal framework the UNHCR fills the gap by identifying people in need of international protection. Indonesia and Malaysia have faced a steady increase in the number of arrivals in recent years. The challenge to these countries (Indonesia/Malaysia) is to deliver protection in an environment of mixed migration that lacks legal frameworks in dealing with refugees. So, I guess the UN is the culprit, it is pointing these refugees in various directions around the world, not just Australia and New Zealand, to the transit countries for protection. If this new policy works and the Opposition has indicated that if elected they would adhere to it, the next step would be to revise the outdated 1951 Refugee Convention which was in placed to handle all the refugees from World War II.
    And, I guess we have to realise these asylum/refugee souls are fleeing their countries because we invaded their countries and left them in a mess. Most of them are coming from Irak and Afghanistan.
    catsahoy
    22nd Jul 2013
    8:39pm
    TED.totally agree with everything you say, good to hear some common sense,
    Young Simmo
    22nd Jul 2013
    8:56pm
    catsahoy, do you agree with me??????
    student
    23rd Jul 2013
    12:15pm
    Wstaton, IF the people had the ability to get passports before leaving their home country (MOST, not all) Indonesia would send them back but if they have 'no' homeland, then they cannot be returned, and go into 'camps' whereby they have no Dr, nor ability to earn money, they have NOTHING except despair. Those that have money can pay bribes to get on a death trap and get away from Indonesia. But do they get away to safety?? It is not an easy solution.
    retroy
    22nd Jul 2013
    12:08pm
    you are missing the central issue which is to make it unattractive for the economic migrants who fly to Indonesia and hire a boat and then throw away their passports, expecting to be re-settled in Australia. They have already sent money to relatives and they know how easy it is to get free housing, furniture and fridges and TV supplemented by dole payments.

    Rudd, who I detest, has made it decidedly unattractive now, but we will still take genuine asylum seekers who go through the proper channels.

    Obviously the logistics have not been thought out but the number coming should lessen so it will not be such a big problem.

    When are the bleeding hearts going to stop feeling sorry for economic migrants who just want to come to live in Oz, and use the facilities when our own people should be the first priority.
    Krissy
    22nd Jul 2013
    12:11pm
    Well said retroy!!!!
    I agree with you!!!
    I say bring back Pauline Hanson I may even vote for her
    biddi
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:00pm
    Absolutely! Thankyou, Retroy and Krissy.
    Fairgo
    22nd Jul 2013
    12:11pm
    As the boats, the crew and the people smugglers are coming from Indonesia; as the distress signals are activated while the boats are still in Indonesian waters; as the Indonesian gov't allows these cashed up queque-jumpers to legally enter their country on a temporary visa, it is high time that we stopped giving foreign aid to Indonesia, made them responsible for controlling the flow of these illegal immigrants buying a ticket on a clapped out old vessel to come to Australia. Its time to "Stop the boats, stop rescuing people who pull the bung and send distress signals so that the RAN or Australian Customs will go rescue them. They choose to get on these leaky tubs, its not Australia's fault that there are casualties.
    As for those illegals who riot at and destroy our off-shore detention centres, they should all be sent back to where they came immediately. Clearly they do not deserve to ever be allowed to settle in Australia.
    Meanwhile, save these precious funds and redirect them to Australians in need of housing, health, aged care, assistance.
    Stop the Boats and their illegal cargoes
    motaleon
    22nd Jul 2013
    3:20pm
    Spot on, Fairgo. While they are waiting to be sent back to their country of origin, these $6Om vandals should be made to live in the mess they have created.
    The Australian Navy should be withdrawn to within 25km of the Australian coast. i can't understand why they are within sight of the Indonesian coast waiting to give these queue-jumpers a first class ferry ride to Australian largess
    biddi
    22nd Jul 2013
    10:27pm
    Thankyou, Fairgo. Yes, just why are we giving money to Indonesia?
    Australia is a laughing stock. They know where these boats are leaving from -
    how can they not know? And the childish antics of hunger-strikers makes me sick.
    People always 'blame the people-smugglers' but I believe the so-called asylum-seekers are just as much to blame. By that, I mean the economic refugees.
    student
    23rd Jul 2013
    12:20pm
    easy solution ; send them back to the country they came from...... OK, so the country of departure is established but what if that country wont take them :) Take them out to sea and scuttle their boat ?? Gimme a brake.
    heyyybob
    22nd Jul 2013
    12:23pm
    Can anyone give me a figure (rough will do) that it has cost the taxpayers, in the last say 24 months, to patrol, rescue, house, assess, transfer, settle, assist etc etc all of the persons arriving in Australia, by boat ?? Thanks, in anticipation ;)
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    12:56pm
    Hevvybb: According to an article approx. 12 months ago in the SMH written by Paul Sheehan (and he quoted Wayne Swan's figures):
    Figures for past three (3) years (2010/2011/2012):
    16,000 Boat Arrivals
    Three year cost $2.3 billion
    Three-year average = $139,000 per asylum seeker.
    heyyybob
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:41pm
    Thanks Egyptian. So the 6,815 persons who have arrived in the last financial year only cost the taxpayers of Australia $947,285,000.00. A pittance !! So those folk protesting this activity should let this practice continue and in fact prosper and expand. Not to mention the tragedy of lost lives hey ?? *scratches head and wanders off.
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:51pm
    The costs for this year (2013) are not available and as there were be considerably more arrivals, and the costs would always be increasing, I guess we won't really know the costs for this year until early next year when they have all be extrapolated.
    Precious
    23rd Jul 2013
    4:15pm
    We will never get the correct figures for anything.....the peoples coming here or trying to are all of a different ilk to us and breed quite generously making this total intake to date roughly triple in five years time...I see em everyday with five or more trailing along and pregrant yet again...so their religions encourage breeding..lol well I wont be around or maybe not really interested in another ten years or more but by jove Australia will be a different place then...I think us white ones could always go back to our heritages and leave this one to them...how about that one...seems an agreeable idea to me specially as this summer in UK so very hot like here for a change...maybe the Devine is telling us that is an otion too??? and all this hatemail re KRudd well someone voted for the ALP in the first place and probably will again...
    SuzeB
    22nd Jul 2013
    12:30pm
    Krudd will swing as far left or right as it takes to get himself elected. He doesn't really have to have 'the fix' for his own error. All he has to do is suck people in long enough to get himself re-elected. Most of the asylum seeker plan will go down the toilet. PNG have said just this morning that they won't be taking anyone who isn't a genuine refugee. Australia will be responsible for maintaining most of these people wherever they end up. So in the meantime, back at the farm.... how about some work on the economy instead of just sending money down the toilet. Anybody who's thinking their super or pension won't be fiddled with is dreaming. Business is strangling in red tape. Small business startups have dropped by 95% - no that's not a typing error. Plus, of existing small businesses, there are 11,000 fewer owners employing actual staff since Kevin 07. How quickly we forgot what a calamity this man is. He has no real principles. He just wants to be boss. Even his own party can see through him, but they want to keep their jobs. The ones with any decency have already left.
    Paddles
    22nd Jul 2013
    10:52pm
    SuzeB

    Right on the money babe. in idle moments one could wonder just what satisfaction Mr Rudd will derive from presiding over what our yankee friends term a clusterf**k.
    But then, megalomania has its own rules (or lack of them) and I am sure that his eventual memoirs will bathe him in glory.
    Unfortunately, the grudging partial endorsement of this ad hoc "solution" by Tony Abbott merely serves to demonstrate the paucity of decency in politics.
    sensible senior
    22nd Jul 2013
    12:34pm
    i would just like to say to fix a problem you have to fix the source does this in my opinion no. these smugglers are not dumb they will find a way out of this. kevin rudd has done this on the run as usual. just say if violence breaks out over this it wont take much on both sides the u.n. will declare it is not safe so we have to take them back after we have poured all this money into the country. i think the only dumb person is mr. rudd. not to mention they have introduced the death penalty, rape,etc so i cannot see happy endings and dont you think that the refrugees will play on this. and as i read it the p.n.g. government has the right to declare who will be declared a refrugee or not . so what happens to the ones that wont be settled.
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    12:41pm
    On the ABC yesterday it was indicated that if PNG doesn't accept them as genuine, they do not come here afterwards, they go back to where they came from or are transported to a "third country".
    I just hope that this plan works and it deters the majority of them getting on shonky boats and risking their lives. They should all join the "GENUINE" refugees and wait their turn.
    SuzeB
    22nd Jul 2013
    12:35pm
    P.S. It's good to see his own party members starting to criticise the plan. I say 'the plan' - which is apparently 2 pages of very general terms with no detail probably thrown together so Krudd could have the big signature flourish on live TV.
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    12:35pm
    I hope the advertising works. I hope the message we are currently sending works.
    I hope the strategy works. At least it's a positive move and definitely is "not an invisible substance ..... etc".

    To help save lives, and ensure the needy get a fair go, Rudd's measures state the government will from now never let BOAT PEOPLE resettle here. Rudd also indicated if this works (and the SMH editorial today thinks it will) the government will adopt the HOUSTON Panel advice. One part of the advice was for Australia to increase its intake of GENUINE refugees languising in their thousands in camps all over the world to 27,000. SMH indicates this will prove Australia's commitment to help the genuine.
    SMH indicates: The Coalition is right to ask when Australia's responsibilities stop. But the Coalition cannot attack Labor for outsourcing the problem then say it would do the same. The Greens will try to stop the government's plan most probably through the High Court but they will need the Coalition's backing to guarantee it is never legislated.
    The deciding factor of this Labor refugee plan will be if Rudd wins the election (whenever it is held) he will be able to consider it as a mandate, in government.
    The Herald also indicated that if the Government's warnings to the people smugglers etc. etc. works, and works quickly, bigger and better detention centres won't be needed.

    Anyhow, I feel it is an alternative to the "turn back the boats" and "stop the boats" jingles, as we are not listening to slogans anymore, just as we stopped listening to Julia Gillard.
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:07pm
    Just to add: I should have said ".... never let BOAT PEOPLE resettle here without proper documents and visas.......".

    Sorry, I got a rush of blood and didn't the complete quote.
    sensible senior
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:49pm
    egyptian HOPE THE ADVERTISING WORKS THIS IS JUST CHEASP CAMPAIGN MONEY PAID BY THE TAXPAYERS WHICH ZENOPHON IS GOING TO TEST IN THE HIGH COURT. TURN BACK THE BOATS AND IF THEY WANT TO JUMP LET THEM AND I SAY SINK OR SWIM
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:58pm
    sensible senior:
    I read the article in today's SMH it indicated:
    Senator Nick Xenophon has made a formal complaint to the Commonwealth Auditor-General (not a High Court test) over the advertising blitz because, in his opinion, he decries the advertisements, saying both sides of politics had used taxpayers' money over the years to fund party political advertising.
    Then, Mark Dreyfus, the Attorney-General & Special Minister of State confirmed he agreed to "exempt" the campaign from the "guidelines" on the basis of extreme emergency.
    He indicated that the changes to policy must be communicated to our communities so asylum seekers considering coming to Australia are made aware of the changes.
    I guess, political/legal/jargon has once again got in the way of commonsense thinking.
    sensible senior
    23rd Jul 2013
    5:32pm
    what a load of ....... this is just out and out campaigning with our money makes me sick and no other word for it i hope it goes to the high court and they get what they deserve. and just tell me what are they going to do with the people on manus now as a resullt of the fires bring them to australia and put them up in motels. not going to be enough room anywhere. so much for you have to wait in line.
    MITZY
    23rd Jul 2013
    7:10pm
    sensible senior: this is not campaign money the official date for the election has not been announced so it is government advertising money used to announce changes to policy and hopefully, deter refugees coming here. Senator Zenophon is lodging a complaint, that's all. You are giving mixed messages above s.s. the fire occurred on Nauru and dozens of those rioters are already in gaols. A lot of these rioters will be sent back from whence they came once law and order determines who are guilty. Manus Island is in PNG and that is supposedly where these first lot of refugees since the announcement a few days ago, will be sent and the status determined.
    sensible senior
    24th Jul 2013
    9:57am
    give me a break egyptian of course it is campaign money. what do you think he has been doing since he was reinstated, picking his ear? THIS STINKS
    pauline
    22nd Jul 2013
    12:38pm
    In the name of democracy, WEstern Countries have invaded and instigated civil wars by taking sides in all those countries where western style democracy simply won't work. Where there is war, there will be refugees. Stop interfering in the affairs of other countries and let the people sort their own problems. Just because they are killing each other does not make it OK for western countries to bring the troops in and kill more people.
    Precious
    23rd Jul 2013
    7:45pm
    It occurred to me right from the outset that some were leaving a sinking ship and refusing to fight for their country? The sects relifious or nay won`t be sorry they leaving as not so many to conquer or slaughter.......
    Jurassicgeek
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:01pm
    I dont see a better alternative from the "Great Messiah Abbott" ...
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:11pm
    Hi Jurassicgeek:
    This is Tony's policy of approximately 12 months ago. I guess that's why Oppositions don't give policy details too far in advance, they get pinched.
    Tony's statement 12 months ago was very similar to what Howard did with Nauru.

    Has anyone seen or knows when the budget estimates come from Treasury so that the policies of both sides can be scrutinised and costed?
    sensible senior
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:40pm
    HOW MANY BOATS CAME WHEN THE COALITIOIN WAS IN GOVERNMENT
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    7:02pm
    S.S.
    Statistics Customs & Border Protection;
    Parliamentary Report:

    aph.gov.au/about_parliament/parliamentary departments/parliamentary_library/pubs/bn/2012-2013/boatarrivals

    There are figures year by your from 1976 onwards (when illegals arrived not mainly from boat arrivals) which started arriving from Vietnam after we joined with the previous "Coalition of the Willing" (Fraser Govt.)
    Fraser's boat arrivals were negligible, they all started coming in the Hawke/Keating era of govt. from 1989 to 1995 - 7 years:
    Boats 62, People 1,925.
    Then, the Howard Govt. from 1996 to 2006/2007 (11.5 years)
    Boats 245, People 13,663. (Mostly due to the wars we entered into with the "Coalition of the Willing" once again.
    Then, the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd era from 2007/2008 to end of 2012 (no ABS figures for the 7 months of this year as yet):
    Boats: 548, People 31,209.
    And S.S. the fact that they have increased in massive proportions is not entirely to the changed policies of how to deal with them. It is because there have been so many uprisings and wars not just in the countries we have been involved with, but so many others. You only have to read the papers daily to see how many conflicts there are all over the world, resulting in millions of asylum seekers.
    sensible senior
    23rd Jul 2013
    6:22pm
    no egyptian its because labor mr. rudd opened the door when he was p.m. now he changes his mind just to get elected. dont worry about principles, hes got none
    MITZY
    24th Jul 2013
    11:19am
    S.S. LNP/Howard govt. also had an open door policy and three of their eleven years in office saw the highest figures on intake of boats/people ever experienced since Australian statistics started in 1976. Howard's solution (Nauru) was tough, just like the present one and it worked and should have been kept. However, governments change and so do policies. Every Opposition opposes whoever is in government and says they will dismantle those policies if and when elected. Governments and Politicians in particular who make the laws are human beings, just like you and I, and "they" get bombarded with abuse from every corner of Australia for their decisions, not like "us" who can live behind "anonymity".

    If you look at the "surge" of boat people in 1999/2000 this quote from the then attorney-general, Phillip Ruddock on 14/11/99 is valid today:

    QUOTE: "It is timely to remember that the use of people smugglers to get around a country's rules about who can come and who can stay is a world-wide problem. Australia is not alone. We are also seeing large numbers of people seeking asylum in developed countries - people from the same groups as we are seeing in Australia. For example, Iraqi asylum seekers are registered in 17 countries and last year there were 34,000 applications for asylum lodged by Iraqis in 19 European countries". UNQUOTE.
    At this time, the United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR) published the following data:

    QUOTE: "Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Norway and Poland experienced significant increases in this period. In fact, asylum seekers in FRANCE ALONE rose by 6,800 to a total of 42,000".UNQUOTE.
    Australia's Labor figures for the past 6 years (up to 31.12.12) as I quoted were 31,209. If you divide those figures by 6 they equal around 5,200 per annum and are a far cry from 42,000 in one year for France.

    The numbers of refugees/asylum seekers arriving in countries all over the world today naturally are increasing due to increasing numbers of wars, conflicts, homelessness, etc. Statistics will more often than not INCREASE. We, the general public, are "screaming" at the top of our voices for the government and opposition to show leadership in solving the problem which has been consuming us for more than two decades.

    So, we have a change of P.M. back to Rudd (unfortunately) who is currently addressing the points that we have been wanting something done about (pushed to the forefront by biased media) for the past 6 years i.e asylum seekers, carbon emissions, etc. and as usual the naysayers and negativity comes to the forefront and they say "it won't work" without even giving it a chance. There is differing opinion on whether it will or wont, but there is differing opinion on every single subject that is put before us every day of the week on this forum.

    After you asking, and me taking the trouble to extrapolate the figures asked for from your question, you didn't think it appropriate to say thanks for those figures or even make a genuine comment on the high number of people arriving during the past 6 years of Labor, which you could have had a field day with. There are many interpretations of the word "principle" but one referred to in law is: "A rule or law exemplified in natural phenomena in the construction or operation of a machine, the working of a system, or the like". I think this is a principle Rudd is trying to apply.

    I note, without trying to bring a polemic to my response to you, that on many occasions when you respond to people on this site (when they disagree with your views re Abbott/LNP) in bold print you come forth with "Don't Attack the Man, Attack the Policies. So, you have to live by that.
    sensible senior
    24th Jul 2013
    11:36am
    egyptian your last paragraph is a real joke i only attack when you attack the man you have a right to your opinions as i am to mine and how can i attack the policies of mr rudd has not got any. it is a crying shame what the once proud labor party has come to. no matter what we say on these sites its not going to change things one iota we are only getting verbal with each othet. if we want to change bthings its called people power get togeter and let whoever is in power know exactly what we will put up with . this is my view
    MITZY
    24th Jul 2013
    12:58pm
    S.S. It's not a joke when 580 policies are passed by Labor in the House of Reps and then passed by the Senate (Libs/Lab/Greens/Independents etc.) in the past three years of a very difficult "Hung Parliament". Not all those policies were Gillards/Labor but flowed out of the previous three years of Rudd). If we have an LNP government soon, many of Labor's current policies will be implemented by the LNP. You say: "I (meaning you) only attack when you (meaning me) attack the man". I don't attack the man, I try when I see wrong statements to quote facts. What I stated was a quote from you on several occasions and with which I agree: QUOTE: "Don't attack the man, attack the policies". UNQUOTE. Then in the next breath you indicate Rudd has no policies, which is pure gibberish.

    I am quite aware that I can get overcome with technical points and facts and figures but, when so many people don't state the facts, quote wrong figures, places and events, then they are repeated over and over to others, there is so much distortion of those facts.
    There are a lot of good people in both major parties doing good things for our benefit, who don't get the accolades they deserve in doing the policy ground-work. A couple of weeks back I mentioned that Rudd got up and did the "Sorry" speech, and received all the accolades, but he was not the author, the author was Jenny Macklin and last night on Annabel Crabb's 'Kitchen Cabinet", Jenny Macklin was quite gracious in being very happy to have just researched and written it. In a casual and happy programme Annabel Crabb showed a side of Jenny Macklin as a Labor MP behind a lot of great policies not associated with her own portfolio. There should be more programmes like "Kitchen Cabinet", Q & A, and the new SBS Sunday evening programme "The Observer Effect" with Helen Fanning etc. where you get an insight into the persona of the people who run our country. I had an indifferent opinion of Barnaby Joyce, before his appearance on "The Observer Effect" and would vote for him if he was in my electorate. These programmes show a side of people you don't witness when they appear on these 10 second grabs on the steps of Parliament House or on the TV News.
    You know if you are not a member of this site, like we are, with our non-de-plumes, people actually visit this website and read what we have written. I once had a job where every day I had to read, record, analyse, report back the general public's thoughts and feelings, so be aware that what we are writing "may change things" somebody is reading what we say and reporting. When you indicate here that "no matter what we say on these sites etc. its not going to change things...."
    I'd like to think and hope that it will change things.
    Cheers.
    sensible senior
    24th Jul 2013
    5:46pm
    Egyptian pick out your best 5 policies and lt med know what they are , it wasnt hard to get policies through with the greens and the two stooges.
    Flowers
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:18pm
    It is all of our tax money being spent unwisely.
    Boof
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:30pm
    Great move Kevin. This will stop the "Illegal' immigrants, from coming by boat. They are not Asylum seekers they are economic refugee's and queue jumpers. If they could get here legally, they would spend the thousands that, they pay the boat people smugglers, on a legitimate air fare and claim ASYLUM. WHY NOT, I HEAR YOU ASK. BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and don't have the rights to do this. Send them back. We don't want the invaders here. We haven't got the infrastructure and cannot look after our own aged pensioners, now. Aged Pensioners can't get public housing, through no fault of their own, having fallen on hard times and lost partners.
    unicorn
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:38pm
    Hey Egyptian if this is Tony Rabbit's policy fo==of 12 months ago what is he screaming about now?
    heyyybob
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:48pm
    6,815 boat arrivals in the past financial year costing Australia $947,285,000.00 (figures suggested to me). Doesn't seem too unreasonable does it folks ? We could have a quick whiparound the various Pensioners Clubs, Unemployment Centres and those lucky, lucky Australians working 3-4 casual jobs a week trying to make a future for themselves and their family (if they can afford to have one!).
    Happy
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:59pm
    Kevin Rudd and Peter O'Niel are MASTERMINDS. This is the best solution we have ever had and should have been put in place 25 years ago.The biggest problem Australia has faced up until last friday with assylum seekers is Economic refuges, which make up 90% of them technically. Boat People are cue jumpers and needed to be stopped in their tracks...

    Have no problem whatsoever with refugees coming to our country through the correct channels by flying in with their papers claiming assylum, through the UNHCR program, through applying overseas through an Australian Consulate or through other correct channels.

    This program should stop the boats and people smugglers in their tracks as its a one way ticket to PNG.

    PNG needs population to stimulate it economically and to grow to become a better place. To simply say its a terrible place is just plain wrong, Australia was once a back water that was a terrible place with shocking living conditions, though our forefathers settled here. Our forefathers built a life and a great country through shear hard work and determination so that we could have what we have today. Many of us forget today what these men and women must have gone through.The asylum seekers need to do the same in PNG with No Free Meal Tickets, Housing or Centrelink Payments, they need to get to work in PNG and create a life for themselves through their own hard work and determination to help our nieghbouring friend PNG to become a great country like Australia.

    All that Kevin Rudd has to do now is work out how he is going to cut down the shocking waistful spending on these people.
    Paddles
    22nd Jul 2013
    11:28pm
    Happy

    I address my response to you although I suspect that the contribution under your name was penned by your fellow (intellectual) dwarf, Dopey.

    Rather than prose, I will comment in a point system on your ramblings............

    1. K Rudd and P O'Neill are not masterminds but, rather, are two conniving politicians pissing in each other's pockets for perceived mutual gain.

    2. Twenty five years ago, we didn't have a "problem".

    3. The assertion that 90+% of boat people were economic refugees emanated from Bob Carr and has since been soundly refuted by all informed sources. That they are seeking a better life and prospects for themselves and their children does not, of itself, make them "economic refugees".

    4. If they really are "cue jumpers" then there is a crying need for them in the billiard room of Australia.

    5. Your attempted comparison of PNG with Australia in 1788 is laughable. In 1788 the Papuans were still eating each other and continued to do so for some time thereafter. I must give you marks for your reference to "shear" hard work as taking the fleece of a sheep is no easy matter.

    6. Your stated desire for the beneficiaries of Mr Rudd's genius will not have to bust their guts in PNG as we, the Australian taxpayer, will maintain them in the same way as their contemporaries on mainland Australia. On top of that, we will build, maintain and service their accommodation and other facilities in PNG and further, should they be deemed undesirable by PNG, we will assume the cost of sending them to a third country (if PNG can find one).

    7. Your last paragraph is the real kicker. Seems like it's back to the drawing board Kev!
    Boof
    22nd Jul 2013
    2:16pm
    Good comment HAPPY. I agree, completely. I don't know where these DOOO-GOODERS COME FROM. Oh. That's right. it is a full moon today.
    Happy
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:39pm
    Alot of these people dont realise that charity really begins at home and once you can forefill that then you can help others... Billions of $$$ has been totally waisted on asylum seekers that could have been better spent on Social housing, Health and Raising the Pension...
    Boof
    22nd Jul 2013
    2:22pm
    Good comment HAPPY. I agree, completely. I don't know where these DOOO-GOODERS COME FROM. Oh. That's right. it is a full moon today.
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    6:10pm
    Boof the full moon (at its fullest) is 4.15 a.m. Tuesday, 23rd. I put a Crystal out every night of the full moon, so in order to cover myself completely, thanks for your input as I would have only put it out tomorrow night and lost the majority of it's aura. I was told if you put a crystal out on full moon nights, your home receives an aura. I know it's a lot of nonsense, but somehow, I can't stop doing it. A friend gave me the crystal and she rings me every full moon night to make sure I put it out!!!! Ah ha, the things we do ..............
    Young Simmo
    22nd Jul 2013
    6:13pm
    Egyptian, I put my empty cans out every night regardless.
    Pass the Ductape
    23rd Jul 2013
    8:11am
    C'mon you lot - this is really serious!
    rodex
    22nd Jul 2013
    2:33pm
    Great news stopping the Q-jumpers and about time to, think of all the money that has been wasted on them and remember that could have been spent on new hospitals and housing for the needy, just look at the uk and see how that country has gone to the dogs, there are more pom's moving to places like Spain, just to get away from the place
    Kali-G
    22nd Jul 2013
    2:35pm
    Firstly any KRudd says or does is only hot air.
    he is an accompliesd lier even better than Gillard ever was
    Secondly all this was his fault in the first place
    Thirdly all the boat people are bloody MUSLIMS
    Just see how they behave when they don't get what they want by causing 60 million damage to their residences
    SEND THEM ALL BACK
    Anonymous
    23rd Jul 2013
    1:56pm
    I agree entirely with what you say. This country is entitled to protect its borders like any other country. I note japan won't let a muslum into its country. Sick of all the bleeding hearts. Keep terrorists out of Australia. Only look after genuine refugees.
    Sylvia
    22nd Jul 2013
    2:36pm
    Heyybob, I was told that less than 5% of Refugees go into the workforce, and as our Jobs get scarcer surely it has been totaly negligent to take more refugees when our own people can't find employment, health care is getting desperate, services are stretched to the limit,we need more money for housing for our homeless, and the Members who are supposed to be looking after Australians just want to score points of how wonderful a job they are doing in the eyes of the world, my vote is going to a leader who doesn't go at things like a bull in a china shop, who will look out for law and order, and tell the UN that things are out of control, and we do not intend for our Country to be bankrupted and dragged into poverty because of the way international politics is played out, it is about time the UN was told by all countries, that the way to helping these people is to help them in their own lands, how they do it is up to them! get together and work it out , because ruining stable countries is not going to be the answer, it is going to make things so unstable that we will end up extinct. The agreement for Refugees that countries signed was back in 1953, ? the world has changed so much in the years in etween, it has to be rethought, but moving vast ammounts of people around is not the answer, to make the world safe for all of us is the best way, and then those who want to move can come here and apply with their passports and papers intact, and be processed legally and we will at least know where they are from and who they are. Aussies are good people they are generous and give the underdog a go, but when we see the wanton waste of our taxes and people in charge wasting it, we are sick of being laughed at, the other day $600,000,000 million dollars of damage was done by these so called refugees, how much could this money have helped our hospitals? and social services ect? I think genuine refugees would understand that the processes they go through is ultimately for their good as well as the people who are paying the bills? After all it is their decision to come here,Rudd seems to be frantically trying to win votes, but how about in 12 months time? how much more debt will he get us in to? This is one of the most important issues to be resolved ,and quickly, the population of the world is going wild, and we still pay people to have babies? and some men are allowed 4 wives! about time we had a serious look at the whole mess, not just Australia but the whole world. Lets start educating people before it is too late. We hear about Human rights, well the people who pay their taxes are human too, and deserve to be treated as such.Where are their rights?
    Paddles
    23rd Jul 2013
    8:07am
    Sylvia

    Much of what you say is regularly trotted out by the clamouring masses and is, mainly, trite unreality.
    When pondering on these matters and coming up with fanciful remedies to be applied by Australians, please remember that we, as a population, represent one third of one percent of the world's people.
    In other words, for EVERY Aussie there are three hundred (300) of other races.
    Now, in many respects, we punch above our weight but never lose sight of the fact that, compared to (say) Europe, we are Johnny-come-latelies with a very small base of people and are situated, as Paul Keating so charmingly put it, "at the arse end of the world".
    The desperate attempts of people to come here (and stay) are testament to the regard in which our country is held world-wide. To settle their family in such a place is an understandable dream and I will forgive them a lot in their efforts to realise that dream.
    Dancer
    22nd Jul 2013
    3:01pm
    The issue of refugees and asylum seekers is a complex problem with no simple "one size fits all" answer. Tony Abbot said that Kevin Rudd's latest policy is making the issue an International problem - well of course it is an international problem. We certainly have a role, and being a wealthy country we need to do our fair share, however it is not the sole responsibility of Australia alone to fix this problem. Some of the source countries have a responsibility to stop the fighting and wars which create refugees, others have the responsibility to share their resources more equitably. The transit countries are often most unfortunate in that it is not only their citizens but citizens from many other countries who land on their doorstep. Finally, the people of Australia have a responsibility to look in the mirror and say "There but for the Grace of God go I" . We need to count our blessings big and small, and be a little more tolerant and gracious. Those who have enormous power and wealth need to use it and share it in a way that will improve the lives of these unfortunate refugees. Our politicians need to use bi-partisan wisdom and compassion in making policies that so dramatically affect the lives of others, and stop criticising and blaming.
    Boof
    22nd Jul 2013
    3:03pm
    Sylvia. one for you too. Do you know what economics is all about. No one person really can tell you exactly, yet you seem to be an expert on what labor has spent. How would you like to have America's debt per head of population. Good economic situations usually work on a deficit. Also you say that he is running around trying to win votes. I don't think that he is running around trying to lose votes. Dah ! IT COULD BE SAID THAT HE IS DOING GOOD THINGS, while he is at it, too. Is he not.
    sensible senior
    22nd Jul 2013
    3:23pm
    boof i would like to respond. who would i rather have in charge of thd economy not kevin rudd. i believe this there is another global crash coming and that people super payments are in stocks . i believe this crash will be bigger than the 1999 crash or 2007 crash i follow a lot of financial sites the latest one by dan deening and he makes a lot of sense. we now have $300billion in debt perhaps more now since rudd has been in charge with this p.n.g. so called solution how much more are we in hock for. all mr. rudd has done nisb run around putting things out which are floored you sure have memory failure he couldnt run the country before hisd own ministers cant stasnd him and he certainly cant run the country now . pretty faces do not make good leaders
    Anonymous
    23rd Jul 2013
    2:06pm
    Krudd is good at kissing babies and sucking up to poor old ducks that would not know the time of day. How could anyone compare him with Tony Abbott, a real man. The latest polls show Krudd has had his honey moon and is on the way down at last. He has no consideration for tax payers money which he spashes around in gay abandon. Just a liar and a hypocrite. What about all the pensioners, struggling to pay their power bills and other costs through his carbon tax, while he swoons around the world puffed up with his own importance.
    sensible senior
    23rd Jul 2013
    5:35pm
    hey surfer dont insult the ducks they wouldnt let him near them.
    motaleon
    22nd Jul 2013
    3:40pm
    I don't know how these economic migrants are allowed to have access to the Australian courts - even to the High Court. They are not citizens of this country but are using our funds and clogging up the legal system. The endless avenues of appeal should be the birthright of Australian citizens ONLY. These intruders should have their cases decided by the Immigration authorities with ONE appeal to the Minister. They are fully aware that we are a soft touch thanks to the do-gooders.
    Happy
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:15pm
    Agree totally with your comment...
    Boof
    22nd Jul 2013
    4:01pm
    Sensible senior. I was happy enough the way Kevin 747 was running the country before he was stabbed in the back by the f..kwit few. Don't try and tell us that you really believe the press about the terrible deaths of the contractors in the roof...And all the rest of the B.S.
    Give me a break. How many places were illegally wired in Australia over the years. Especially in the west and in Qld. I have to tell you that I wired my own place, years ago, but got a "Sparkie" to sign the council papers, for a good bottle of wine. I knew of many of others. Especially on farm houses, etc.. Don't get me wrong please. I am sorry for the unnecessary deaths, but the electricity should have been deactivated B4 the laying of the insulation began. Rudd wasn't to blame, or Peter. We could go on, but if you choose to believe the Australian, Over the top, sensationalist journo's, so be it. I know better.
    sensible senior
    22nd Jul 2013
    4:10pm
    o give me a break of course he is partly responsible he was warned dont know how many times even by his own ministers and thank you i can work out what is bs and what is not and whats the australian got to do with it. i certsainly respect your right to your opinion and mine but if he gets back or even now if he does not we are not going to ber the lucky country because oif the situation we have been left in and as i said there is definately another crsash coming and wwill not be in the situation we were in (surplus) like we were in 2007. you can put out big ideas but the thing is to have the money to carry them through
    Rene
    22nd Jul 2013
    4:03pm
    All this money spent on the boat people, were do they get the money from to buy their airfares out to Indonesia and to pay their fares on the boats to Australia I always thought true refugees were people who had nothing if they want to come here do it the legal way not by the back door. I think it's about time OUR GOVERNMENT thought of the AUSTRALIAN PEOPLE for a change not giving our money to everyone else to use, Fix our hospitals, help people sleeping on the streets find them homes, YOU ALL KNOW HELP THE AUSTRALIANS when I think of the money spent on the Asylum Seekers it's shameful and now a heap money to NEW Guinea and we don't how much yet, billions I should think
    heyyybob
    22nd Jul 2013
    4:19pm
    Ahhh, Australia !! Land of milk and honey. HEAPS of really well paid jobs. Free medical services. Free education. Low corruption in Government. Money for you, free, if you can't get a nice job straight away. Aged Pension payment. A GREAT Defence Force to defend us. Low crime rate. Clean and attractive suburbs/cities/towns to live in. Great range of housing available. Yep !! It's all there folks, just come right over, no matter how you can get here, just come and it's there for you for the having. We think anyone who feels persecuted/unhappy/impoverished/ambitious/wants a better life etc can pop in anytime and anyhow they can. We certainly don't think we should stop you or, heaven forbid, impose any conditions on your deciding to live here !! After all, how could we possibly have the right to do that ? *thinks.
    Pass the Ductape
    22nd Jul 2013
    4:37pm
    Yes - and you won't be the only one thinking this hevvybob. The very fact that many of us are thinking like this at all, is to me, a certain indication that we're already headed for real problems in the not to distant future. We never seem to learn do we?
    Boof
    22nd Jul 2013
    4:28pm
    Well said heavybob
    heyyybob
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:01pm
    By the way. Not only Afghans/Iranians/Sri Lankins/etc etc. I urge ANYONE from ANY country in the world that has suffered from the actions of THEIR government and who are not happy/feel threatened/persecuted/would like a better life to somehow get some money together and come to the Land Of Milk & Honey. It won't matter how you cross our borders you will find some people here from all walks of life only too happy to welcome you and insist you CAN come here anyway you wish. Go for it !! OUR borders are meaningless apparently !!
    Pass the Ductape
    22nd Jul 2013
    4:29pm
    Can anyone give an satisfactory explaining as to why these so-called - 'poor, refugee boat people', in their flight from persecution, bypass so many other counties and pay a smuggler a huge price to smuggle them to into Australia?
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    6:27pm
    Ductape: See Wstaton's post at 4.31 p.m. today and my response at 5.28 p.m. to him. This will tell you why.
    Young Simmo
    22nd Jul 2013
    6:31pm
    Ductape, the go that way because the whole world knows we are a soft touch with every body, barring our Pensioners.
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    6:33pm
    That was a quick response Young Simmo, you obviously didn't read my post.
    Young Simmo
    22nd Jul 2013
    6:40pm
    Yeh Egyption, life is too short to be too serious.
    Young Simmo
    22nd Jul 2013
    4:46pm
    This is like coughing and passing the flu on. Accept we are coughing and passing on to PNG, lots of Mosques, lots of Muslim schools then latter lots of Muslim rules and laws. The people of PNG will hate us in the end, no matter how much money we poured into their Country to spread this World Dominating Disease. I say sink more boats, and I bet I am no orphan.
    catsahoy
    22nd Jul 2013
    9:13pm
    young simmo, you ask do i agree with you, ABOUT WHAT, most of the time i do agree with you, but what in particular are you referring to?
    Young Simmo
    22nd Jul 2013
    9:30pm
    OK catsahoy, try my comment further down at 7.47 pm. I have very strong feelings about how KRUDD is making this wonderful country into a hell hole.
    yellownanna
    22nd Jul 2013
    4:54pm
    I think that as a country which enjoys peace & prosperity that we have an obligation to help those less fortunate than ourselves. It is only by sheer luck that we were born in Australia rather than any of the troublespots around the world. I think this means we should help refugees.

    However, it is very distressing to see desperate people lose their lives making the risky trip in rickety boats to Australia. It is obscene that people smugglers are profiting from the pain & suffering of fellow human beings.

    For these reasons I think that Kevin Rudd's solution might work. From what I understand he wants to STOP the boats. If these new rules mean anyone coming to Australia by boat & without a visa can never settle in Australia ever then hopefully people will stop risking their lives. I think that is a good thing.

    What I would like to see added to this new policy is an increase in the number of refugees that we will take. These would be people who have all their papers, who haven't wasted their money giving it to people smugglers, & who have come to Australia through the proper channels.

    Let us hope that no more people will die attempting to make it to Australia.
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    6:32pm
    yellownanna. Good post, and somewhere above I indicated similar thoughts. Rudd did indicate in that policy announcement 3 days ago that if these measures work we will increase our intake of genuine refugees through the proper channels to 27,000.
    Huskie
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:03pm
    How about a new tack! Forget the political slogans and address the root cause. The problem is that 3rd World employees enjoy 3rd World pay. That is why Australian, and other, companies move their production offshore. Perhaps we should encourage Australian Trade Unions to become active in those countries to raise the awareness amongst the workers of those countries of the fact that the goods and services they provide for a pittance are sold for a premium in, and to, Australia and Australians.

    How about the Australian Government legislate that any company that wants to import or provide goods or services to Australia or Australians MUST provide any offshore employee the equivalent pay and conditions to that which they would be required to pay an Australian employee or pay a tax equivalent to that amount or be excluded from the Australian market. This would effect organisations such as Telstra and others who are moving functions offshore at the cost of Australian jobs and create a level playing field as required by the World Trade Organisation

    This would have the effect of improving the terms and conditions of offshore workers, improving their domestic economy thru' increased spending power and disposable income and at the same time make the companies think less about the dividend paid to shareholders and more about social responsibility and help protect both Australian workers and those in the offshore countries
    sensible senior
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:41pm
    what a great idea huskie
    Paddles
    23rd Jul 2013
    8:30am
    Huskie

    You have come nearer than anyone lately to rendering me speechless! What arrant twaddle you wrote and I can only suggest that you have a nice cuppa and a good lay down.
    You could do worse than have a look at my post from 8.07 today wherein I try to put our country into some global perspective. If we were to attempt to DIRECT the economies of other friendly nations, then we would be laughed out of the world community, and quite rightly.

    Sensible(?) Senior

    To even begin to merit the first part of your nom-de-plume, you really need to revisit Huskie's pathetic philosophy.
    sensible senior
    23rd Jul 2013
    5:41pm
    as a matter of fact paddles something is being done now in the garmet industry for better pay and condition after the collapse of buildings overseas.
    Huskie
    24th Jul 2013
    1:20pm
    Paddles,
    This is not an attempt to direct (note: I did not "shout" this) the economies of other countries, friendly or otherwise. All is does is delineate specific "terms of trade" for commercial entities that wish to sell products or services in and/or to Australians.

    We are already dictating to, and dictated to by, other countries in regard to our economy and trading arrangements. What about the Indonesian Live Cattle Trade issue? We now tell them how they must treat the animals we have sold to them.
    The EU tell us that if we wish to sell agricultural products to them we must meet certain conditions. Greece, Cyprus, Ireland, Italy, Portugal and Spain are being dictated to, in terms of their economy, by other "friendly" countries and the World Bank. China dictates to us and others what the "Terms of Trade" will be if we wish to sell our products to them, all standard business practice - If you want to trade with us then these are the conditions that you have to meet or no trade.
    We are also dictated to by the World Trade Organisation on how we trade internationally, and under what conditions that trade must occur. The issue of the importation of Apples from NZ demonstrates this.
    True blue
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:14pm
    I'll keep it short and sweet. I've got my fingers crossed that this new plan works. Don't care if it's Labour or Liberal. Stop the illegal entry. If they can afford to get themselves to Indonesia, let them settle in Indonesia. True refugees don't pick and choose. They are just grateful to be out of their home country. I won't even go into details about my 3rd world country friends, who entered LEGALLY!!!! and had to wait 4 bloody long years to become Aussies, but they did it LEGALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    MITZY
    22nd Jul 2013
    6:40pm
    They get to Indonesia through the United Nations of which Indonesia is a transit country to stop them from being persecuted any further. The UN (a terrible way to put it) but the UN "distributes" these displaced persecuted people not only to Australia but to many other countries (some even smalller population and not as affluent as Australia). Indonesia is not really responsible for them.
    stevo
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:21pm
    Kevin KRudd must get up each morning and give himself a BIG KISS. He believes that Australians are so gullible he can say and do anything he likes. How many trips has he been on since he has been in the top job once again.
    He is all talk; no real substance and don't kid yourself, if he and the Labour Party are re-elected, Australia is in big trouble both internally and externally. DON'T BE A FOOLED BY THIS POLITICAL VACANT SPACE.
    Paddles
    23rd Jul 2013
    8:34am
    Stevo

    You're right on the money there. I haven't seen anyone advance an opinion of Krudd's likely performance as Opposition Leader.
    Can anyone imagine that ego fitting on the Opposition bench?
    sybilla
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:23pm
    This debacle has no clear solutions that will be acceptable to all parties.

    I wonder, when we speak, quite rightly, about humanitarianism in this dilemma, where the rich Muslim countries stand. The thing about Christians is that, nominally at least, we help not only our own kind, but others also. So what about wealthy Islamic states helping their "brothers" in Islam??
    heyyybob
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:32pm
    Ho, Ho Qestra !! Good one :) It does make you think, doesn't it ?
    Richard
    22nd Jul 2013
    6:55pm
    After leaving Israel, the Palestinians were put into "concentration camps" by the Jordanians and the Syrians, who have demonstrated clear dislike of their brethren when it comes to having to share with them. Why would they feel any different about Iraqis or Afghanis or Iranians on the run?
    Paddles
    23rd Jul 2013
    8:43am
    I have followed this situation of "boat people" as closely as anyone else and I have seen no correlation between people seeking a better life in a safe country and the religion commonly associated with their place of origin.
    The email circuit is laden with anti-Muslim messages and I deplore them for their intention of fomenting ill feeling between people of different creeds. Such hate factors should not be introduced into what is a humanitarian problem.
    Young Simmo
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:23pm
    There is one thing I know and that is, all us pensioners are just SO HAPPY that all these so called boat people are getting free Mobile phones, computers, accommodation, clothing, medical treatment, plane rides, toiletry requirements and toys for their kids, Etc, Etc, Etc, THE SAME AS WE GET.
    heyyybob
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:38pm
    Now, now Simmo. I don't think that the 'activists' who support the entry (illegal or otherwise) into Australia of anyone who wants/needs to come here are REALLY concerned whether Pensioners, who have worked/contributed to the advancement of Australia, are happy :(

    22nd Jul 2013
    5:34pm
    Give Rudd a chance,hes been in the Wilderness so long,let him get his land legs back,you will have another 4 years to worry about him as PM after the election!
    sensible senior
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:44pm
    IN YOUR DREAMS
    Paddles
    23rd Jul 2013
    8:48am
    Well! Billyknows something that the rest of us didn't know.
    I know that the Balmain Bulldozer was successful in making future Labor PM's virtually irremovable but I must have missed the part where he extended the term of Federal Government to 4 years.
    retroy
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:36pm
    At last the bleeding hearts appear to be almost silenced on this blog, so perhaps they too have come to the realization that Australia has been a soft touch for too long.
    Remember we got this way because labor and their lefty cohort wanted to be nice to these economic migrants.

    Now even rudd has opened the other eye or had it fixed !

    Lets give it a go despite the lefty bleating
    Nevagiveup
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:59pm
    Exactly right retroy, and why would Krudd care as long as his Half Million Dollar salary keeps coming, nothing else matters.
    wally
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:40pm
    My first impression of Kevin Fraud's crackdown on the uninvited, illegal migrant country-shopping boat people is that it is simply too little, too late. Why do we have some of our respondents blethering about Australia's responsibility as a "humanitarian" nation when the boat people are fleeing from regimes that are decidedly unhumanitarian? Why don't they petition the Taliban, the Iraqi, Sri Lankan and Iranian governments to be more humanitarian in their treatment of the minority peoples they govern? Why do the western countries have to put right the abuses these unfortunates suffer?
    An above respondent argues that Australia, the UK and the USA invaded these countries and so deserve to succor the boat people. Unless I am missing something, I cannot recall seeing where Iran and Sri Lanka were invaded by Australia, or anyone else.
    I do not recall seeing where the "bleeding hearts" think Australia and other countries will ever reach the tipping point and say that enough money has been spent on the care, feeding, housing, dole payments etc.for these queque jumpers. Exactly when is enough enough enough?
    Thank You Kevin Fraud. John Howard took a problem and created a solution. Kevin Fraud, in his quest for "brownie points" with the lefties, revoked Howard's solution and re=created rhe problem. Perhaps yellownanna and her ilk can tell me how many more "assylum seekers" Australia should admit and how much Australia should set as the maximum amount of money which should be spent on them.
    It is like asking a blood donor to bleed to death giving blood for a never ending stream of blood recipients. Odd how the Messianic Kevin Fraud made a loudly turmpetted trip to Papua New Guinea to create a brand new detention centre there in exchange for billions in aid for the PNG. Now the PNG is making noises that are not 100% in accord with what our PM Kevin Fraud tells us is going to happen. Reminds me of Julia's East Timor solution that she announced without letting the East Timorese in on the secret before it was announced, or the Malaysian solution that the High Court knocked on the head.
    If Tony Abbott has no policies, Kevin Fraud has too many! All we want to see is to see him produce one that works and produces the desired result. Don't hold your breath.
    sensible senior
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:46pm
    totally agree wally. i say turn back the boats
    sensible senior
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:46pm
    totally agree wally. i say turn back the boats
    Anonymous
    23rd Jul 2013
    2:24pm
    Good on you Wally. It worked before so it will work again. Only solution turn back the boats. No ifs or buts. This Krudd guy is a loose cannon out of control with all our tax payers dollars. Well past his used by date.
    Wstaton
    23rd Jul 2013
    2:31pm
    Well said Surfer. How do we do that. It's also hard if they are sinking.

    Maybe we should use gunboat policy, fire a shot across their bows.
    Young Simmo
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:41pm
    I find it hard to believe how many people commenting on here just, COULD NOT CARE LESS ABOUT THEIR GRANDCHILDREN'S FUTURE. All you boat people sympathizers are creating a hell on Earth for your Grandchildren, you must all feel very proud.
    Boof
    22nd Jul 2013
    5:44pm
    Good one Stevo. I think that you must be an intellectual giant. You seem to have put a lot of thought into your comment. I think that you might be the next genius, from Australia. Keep up the good, thoughtful and informative thinking. Do you go to Uni. or are you just a natural, self taught, thingo.
    piklo
    22nd Jul 2013
    6:01pm
    gooday people
    after reading the blogs on the illegels again I say no paper work no entry send them back if we were such a rich country a statement up top then why have we so many people homeless why have we so many people destitute in this country and we are spending millions of dollars on these illigels if there was a vote on this situation I bet my d slast $ that the vast majority of aussies would vote to send them back the NGs don't want them why should we have to put up with this debarcle paper work no probs no paper work look after our own back yard
    sensible senior
    22nd Jul 2013
    6:03pm
    i have just got the figures from the latest morgan poll not good
    alp 52.5% coalition 47.5% on two party preferred basis
    alp primary vote 41.5% down 0.5%
    coalition 41%
    green 9% up 2%
    independents/other 8.5% down 1.5% Katter party and palmer 1%
    women swinging back to alpup 2%
    men have stayed the same.


    all i can say is what are we women thinking
    MITZY
    26th Jul 2013
    9:33am
    Fair shake of the sauce bottle!
    sensible senior
    29th Jul 2013
    6:41pm
    what kind of sauce
    rrian
    22nd Jul 2013
    6:33pm
    The real victems of Mr Krudd's latest policy are the Papua New Guineans who evidently and understandably don't want the world's most unwanted people any more than the majority of Australians do.
    Young Simmo
    22nd Jul 2013
    6:42pm
    My sentiments exactly, see 5.41pm comment.
    rrian
    22nd Jul 2013
    6:50pm
    I totally agree Young Simmo. I was born into a predominantly protestant Christian country where non- conformance is almost fully tolerated. I don't want that to change.
    Indy_Lopos
    22nd Jul 2013
    6:56pm
    Well, this might at least deter a lot of non-refugees.
    However this is totally opposite to Rudd's arguments when he was previously prime minister and very much questions his opposition to the Coalitions policies which now look more humane and achievable than the radical Rudd plan. If this had been suggested by the Coalition, Labor would have screamed "inhumane" but because Rudd proposed it as an election winner there is little internal criticism. Interesting but unbelievable.
    rrian
    22nd Jul 2013
    7:12pm
    Agreed, but the PNG people are being used. I have spent time there and they are a lovely people. They don't want a foreign culture out to crush them (as has happened in western New Guinea aka West Irian) any more than the majority of Australians do. We, in Australia, should be ashamed to use our PNG allies and friends, especially those of the crucial days of WW2, in such a way.
    SuzeB
    22nd Jul 2013
    7:35pm
    Yes, he'll say and do whatever it takes, Indy, and his fans don't seem to care what a fake he is. It says a lot about us as a people, really.
    Incognito
    22nd Jul 2013
    7:11pm
    The Australian communities have changed forever,we will never have it the way it was a unique culture with safe and easy going communities. It worries me how the future will be for our children,they are already seeing a lot of violence especially with knives that we had never seen in our childhood. Have we become 'too' multicultural? Where are the jobs for all these refugees? Where is the housing? We have too many of our young people struggling to find permanent work and housing is a joke,we have far too many homeless already. Does having more refugees arrive make it easier for anyone? I have heard they cannot even work is this right?
    robin hood
    22nd Jul 2013
    7:24pm
    You are so right Musicveg agree totally look after aussies first we don't have a clue who is coming into this country these days
    Young Simmo
    22nd Jul 2013
    7:47pm
    Yes all you do gooders, just try and imagine that because of you, your Grand Daughters walking around the shopping centre with a rag head. Your grandson kneeling on a concrete floor to pray. Your grand daughter gets raped, and then she is killed for allowing the rape to take place. Yes that is just a taste of what you do gooders will be responsible for. Get your heads out of the sand.
    sensible senior
    22nd Jul 2013
    8:09pm
    well said exactly
    catsahoy
    23rd Jul 2013
    11:10pm
    hi simmo, sorry didnt get this last night, it will only come to this if we let it, this is something i have said all along, the ones that come here ,MUST learn english, and abide by our laws, i assure you my grandsons will never kneel and pray, if any of these people are caught out in any infringment of the law, they should be taken to the nearest port and dropped of,I CERTAINLY dont want them here, taking them to papua new guinea is a better idea than what is in place now,
    Huskie
    22nd Jul 2013
    8:21pm
    How many of you read my post of today at 05.03pm!
    forget the politics and address the real problem!
    Shepo
    22nd Jul 2013
    10:56pm
    There are so many comments that I can't comment on each one but from my perspective these people have been subjected to miseries that we can only imagine and even then not in our wildest imagination. We are so fearful that our life will change because we as a nation find a way to deal with refugees, genuine refugees compassionately. Compassion means opening our heart and seeing these people as another us with the same need to find a safe haven for both ourselves and those we love. This can't be achieved by sending them to somewhere we can't see safety for ourselves. I don't know what the solution is but placing them in PNG isn't the right decision. Kevin you just lost my vote.
    Pass the Ductape
    23rd Jul 2013
    8:29am
    If they didn't like what was happening in their country, perhaps these refugees should have stayed and fought a lot harder to make it better. I think all Australians would be more than happy open their hearts to those who genuinely tried to do this, instead of running away like the bunch of economic cowards that they are I can't see the majority of Australians putting up with the same crap from their government that these refugees say they had to. I've said it before and I'll say it again - give them all a gun and ammunition; send them back and make them fight for what they're supposed to believe in.
    carmencita
    23rd Jul 2013
    2:56pm
    I agree with you Ductape. These boat people should not run away but fight to make their country better. That's the price for freedom. It is not handed to you on a silver platter. If one wants a better condition, it should start from oneself. "There are no masters if there are no slaves." It is cowardice to let other people solve your own problem.
    Wstaton
    23rd Jul 2013
    3:09pm
    There is something in what you say Carmencita when you consider all the resistance movements during the last world war. Where would some of these countries be if it weren't for them. Unfortunately they would probably be called terrorists these day.
    Young Simmo
    22nd Jul 2013
    11:03pm
    Shepo, if you are having trouble making your mind up, may I suggest you consider my comment just above at 7.47 pm. I look at the real world, not the fantasy world of a lot of people.
    Abe
    23rd Jul 2013
    12:10am
    Can anyone give me a reason why we are giving Indonesia foreign aid and how much each year?
    carmencita
    23rd Jul 2013
    2:44pm
    Based on what was shown on TV before Gillard was ousted, it says half a billion...but that advert stopped. Don't know why though.
    pammee
    23rd Jul 2013
    12:14am
    Well looks like a lot of us have an opinion on this, well really what can Rudd do or any prime minister labor or liberal? I feel for the asylum seekers but I am over them I don't want them here, multiculturalism does not work- look at what has happened to suburbs all over Oz. Rudd is damned if he does and damned if he dose t try something to stop the boat people. Tony abbot would be in the same position as Rudd - I just know that our beautiful country has been ruined by allowing too many in.
    carmencita
    23rd Jul 2013
    2:51pm
    Australia needs to populate. The immigration policy is stringent about approving only those who have qualifications and therefore can be productive citizen of Australia. It is also stringent in regards to criminal behaviour and history. However, I don't know about the processing of boat people.
    Pass the Ductape
    25th Jul 2013
    6:34am
    Australia needs to populate? The immigration policy is stringent in regards to criminal behaviour and history carmencita?

    We've been advised that some of these 'poor boat people' are raping their own
    (young men) whilst waiting to be processed...... Just the sort of refugee elements we need in this country I'm sure.
    Sally-Jane
    23rd Jul 2013
    12:47am
    I say rid Australia of UN ties and start spending OUR money on Australian needs instead of having them telling us where and on whom we must spend or send our hard earned dollars. I believe charity begins at home and therefore not one dollar should be leaving our country until every problem our country has, has been put right, including a place for all Australians to live. Why should we be responsible for the safety of people who are stupid enough to get on leaky boats, just to come here for our too generous handouts, just because the UN says we must. If the Netherlands can dismantle multicoulturism and claim back their country and have one set of laws and way of life for the whole population, then it's about time we followed their lead too, before it's too late for our future generations. Come on Aussies, let's claim our Country and way of life back. Check out this article
    http://www.barenakedislam.com/2013/04/29/hooray-the-netherlands-makes-good-on-its-promise-to-end-multiculturalism-christians-bending-over-for-muslim-supremacists-and-entitlement-whores/
    Paddles
    23rd Jul 2013
    9:15am
    Sally-Jane

    "I believe charity begins at home and therefore not one dollar should be leaving our country until every problem our country has, has been put right, ".

    Dear lady, you will be waiting a long time (like forever). By virtue of attaining the age that I have, I have seen our population develop into something that invariably reminds me of a bird's nest with a clutch of chicks, heads in the air, beaks open and squawking for their minders to fill them.
    Conversely, I have also noted the self sufficiency of many migrants, at least until they become sufficiently Australianised, whereby they built things, grew things and were pathetically grateful for any assistance.
    In my lifetime, the post WW2 generations have increasingly developed a welfare mentality, with ever increasing demands upon the public purse which, contrary to their beliefs, does have a bottom. Coalition Governments have found such a bottom and proceeded to cover it up so that following Labor Governments could have the satisfaction of digging until it is once again exposed.
    I put it to you that we now find ourselves on just such a cusp and the priority of the incoming Government will need to be to cover the bottom once more.
    Rob
    23rd Jul 2013
    7:50am
    Why do people posting here( and it is common elsewhere) find the need to personally attack our political leaders? To me it is a sign of poor intellect in that they think this supports or enhances their argument,
    unicorn
    23rd Jul 2013
    8:00am
    I agree Rob seems though the trouble is that political leaders of the past keep popping into the news and having their say, as well as Labour being unable to make their minds up & stick with it as to who their leader is.
    Grateful
    23rd Jul 2013
    8:37am
    No he hasn't "passed the buck". Try to get emotion and prejudices out of our thoughts and see what "should" be the obvious.
    The "buck" now will stop at its source, the absolute intention of this plan, and Peter O'Neill nearly gave it away when Kevin Rudd hastily interrupted him, when he was saying that he expects that PNG will have NO asylum seekers to settle, because the whole purpose of this plan is that nobody will be spending $8,000 to come by boat, risk their lives, to settle in PNG!! QED!!
    Why, when the latest arrivals were told yesterday that they would never be allowed to settle in OZ and would be having to go to PNG, they broke down and cried?? Now, we have been told that ALL of these "asylum seekers" are so desperate to leave persecution in their own countries that they would even risk death at sea to escape, yet, they want to select where they escape to??!!
    Sadly, like everything in life, those that wish to abuse what is an otherwise very noble and necessary programme, stuff it up for the genuine ones. We in Oz have seen that occurring with the cancelling the Chronic Illness Dental Plan, payments for single mothers, and now the fringe benefit tax benefits for company cars. All of those were being abused by those that genuinely did not qualify for the intended outcomes, so, everyone suffers when they were cancelled.
    What has been done to asylum seekers is, sadly, a necessary decision to destroy the prime cause of all of these deaths at sea, the ruthless, greedy smugglers. It is not an attack on GENUINE asylum seekers and refugees!!
    Now that Indonesia has at last cancelled their policy to give automatic 30 day visas to all visitors and now that Australia has said that they will not accept anyone who does not hold a visa, you will find that Peter O'Neil will have very little to worry about with settling asylum seekers in his country!! The KISS Principle working AGAIN.
    heyyybob
    23rd Jul 2013
    9:04am
    You make good points, Grateful at 8.37 today, and I agree with your assumptions and assertions. I do hope that it works. We WILL continue to help those that come through the established system and in fact will increase those numbers, in line with our ability to do it well. We should be proud of the work we do there and in fact a lot of us are very happy with that programme.
    Boof
    23rd Jul 2013
    9:04am
    Our boys are getting killed in these economic refugees' countries trying to make it better for them. Why don't these cowards stop and help fight the Talaban and the respective baddies, all you dooo-gooders.
    Abby
    23rd Jul 2013
    9:55pm
    Well said Boof
    aquatrek
    23rd Jul 2013
    9:04am
    Policy on a napkin aided and abetted by Carr and others in just a few days. Legal challenges, taxpayers money thrown around like confetti, inadequate detention centers, Indonesia saying that the boat smuggler trade is impossible to police, non-English speaking economic asylum seekers rorting the UN system, Islamic ideology being imported into Australia - just how many things are wrong ? PNG is not a 'solution'.
    Anonymous
    23rd Jul 2013
    10:46am
    Rudd does not care, he just wants a stop gap solution in order to get back as Australia's PM. Power and privilage is his only prerequisite. He does not give a toss about how much money is thrown at this issue, while Australian pensioners struggle to pay power bills and other costs, blown out by the carbon tax. It is time the people had their say. Far too many unproductive beaurocrats in this country. Taxpayers are being done like a dinner irrespective of their political leanings. Please get rid of all the dead wood, and illegal boat people. In such a wealthy country, all Australians should be riding on the pigs back. Not small businesses all over the country going broke. We are in for a rough ride.
    unicorn
    23rd Jul 2013
    9:22am
    I couldn't agree more Grateful, having a niece from Indonesia she was born there but to get to Australia she had a home to go to, a young man waiting to marry her, had learnt at school to speak English & was prepared to come to our country & comply with our laws. All this & when the time was getting near she went to night school to brush up on her English. Now she is living here having got a job within the set time, she is happily married with two children & fits in beautifully with her adopted family.
    shele
    23rd Jul 2013
    9:36am
    Unfortunately, something has to be done to stop the drownings of the innocent. The smugglers don't care. the people are desperate. Do we just keep on taking them in to explode our own population? They are not alwa
    ys checked for illnesses etc. I heard an radio interviews other day from a boat person who survived and he said this must be stopped and he agreed with the Rudd solution.It is a difficult situation. I have a dear friend in Malayasia (K'Lumpur)trying to get to Aust. the correct way. She had married a Aussie Army person long ago (she is 69) and had happy marriage plus three children. Son died mysteriously 2 years ago. Sadly. Daughters live in America and Australia. Husband died of tragic cancer after suffering long time. She later remarried another Aussie Army serviceman who died of heart attack. She had Aust. residency' apparently. I wrote letter a year ago inviting her to stay at my home (until she could resettle in her own unit.) She has stayed with me before years ago for 6 week visit to keep Aust. residency status). Now it has been long process to get here and all she wants is to get away from the Moslems around her. She is Christian Believes Moslems killed her dear 42 year old son.Why is it so difficult for her to come to live in Aust.? She is now 69 and wants her home to be here (Her children are half Australian)She is a dear genteel lady!

    23rd Jul 2013
    10:35am
    Great polls today, and Krudd or Mr.Dudd is on his way back down. Honeymoon over. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. Bring on Tony and he will fix our illegal boat people racket. We need a man at the helm, not a liar and a greasy ego maniac.
    unicorn
    23rd Jul 2013
    10:41am
    Some of them drown admittedly but it is a serious offence on their behalf & not really our worry although what gets me is how a man (unidentified as to my knowledge) who was in Melbourne according to the news I heard, rang the Australian
    sea rescue as far as I could make out to report the last boat in trouble from Indonesia . The ship plus others went to their aid 5 hours later, and now some idiot in Australia is saying they didn't act quickly enough .... Why didn't the man ring Indonesian sea rescue ?? One child was drowned in this case. Are we supposed to rescue people from foreign countries when they are often in their own waters when the one demanding help is living here???No sense in our authorities cow towing to these demands who is to say they are genuine they could be terrorists if your memory is not too bad you may remember the Bali bombings.
    unicorn
    23rd Jul 2013
    10:44am
    Bring on tony sure surfer he can swim out to the boats & frighten the life out of them in his budgie smugglers.
    Anonymous
    23rd Jul 2013
    2:40pm
    Well at least he is a lifesaver. Can you imagine Mr. Sheen in budgie smugglers, and getting his hair out of place. The mind boggles. Just turn back the boats as Tony says, it worked before and it will work again. I think Krudd has wasted enough of Australias tax payers dollars. What about our hospitals, schools and pensioners. Those are the things that matter. With the tin pot population we have we can't afford state governments. We need only one federal government and get rid of all these leeches on ridiculous salaries and entitlements. This country needs a big shake up. What about the salaries of local government staff?? Our whole country is a joke. So let Tony loose in his budgie smugglers.
    sensible senior
    23rd Jul 2013
    5:51pm
    great comment surfer
    toot2000
    23rd Jul 2013
    10:55am
    I got really excited when I first heard of the plan, thought it was a brilliant idea that was sure to work but as the days go on, the opposition is finding big holes in it and the money needed is mind boggling. If Tony's plan of turning back the boats and reintroducing TPVs works, it will be billions cheaper than Kevin's grand plan. No need for new buildings and rebuilding what they have already destroyed. Labor has tried many times without success to fix the problem, we need to give Tony a chance to show what he can do.
    Anonymous
    23rd Jul 2013
    2:45pm
    Agree totally with you Toot. This crap with Krudd has gone on long enough.
    MITZY
    24th Jul 2013
    1:31pm
    It's the job of Oppositions to "oppose". Naturally this policy is going to get attacked. Why wouldn't they attack it. For the past three years or more all we have heard is we will turn back the boats and that slogan is in everybody's brain. If this policy works (and it needs more than a few days of naysayers knocking it) that's a major LNP policy rendered useless. It looks like Rudd is trying to address and rectify the policies that would be sure winners for the LNP, another policy being the carbon price/emissions trading etc.
    The sooner the date of the election is announced the better. The budgetary moneys from Treasury's estimates are badly needed and then and only then can each party's forward policies be analysed and costed. Until then, everything is just plain rhetoric.
    unicorn
    23rd Jul 2013
    12:01pm
    how do you propse toy gets the job done cheaper?
    toot2000
    23rd Jul 2013
    12:20pm
    That's up to Abbott to tell us.
    Horse Gal
    23rd Jul 2013
    12:04pm
    I have no faith in either Rudd or Abbott but I can see where the new policy can work.
    At the end of the day we really want the boats stopped.

    Would you lay out lots of dollars to inhuman people smugglers only to find when you arrived you had been lied to and would not achieve your objective?
    I know I certainly wouldn't.
    The smugglers will not go down without a fight so it will take courage to stay on track and not give in.
    I believe if this is done then the boats will stop.

    As I understand it the detention centers are classed as sub standard by our standards.
    What are the living conditions like in refugee camps across the world?
    I suspect not good at all.
    if the rioters are not happy with what they are provided with in the caamps then i think they have the right to return to thier home land.
    Some Sri Lankans took that option when they found they would be in detention not just turned loose in Australia.

    Makes one question just what kind of information is being fed to them by the people smugglers.
    At the end of the day smugglers are only interested in the money, they collect it and stay safely at home,while the people desperate enough to believe them drown

    So Mr Rudd you must have the guts to stay firm on this!!!
    MITZY
    26th Jul 2013
    9:38am
    Horse Gal: Good comment, "people smugglers" is too kind a logo for these degenerates. They should be called "transporters in human flesh".
    toot2000
    23rd Jul 2013
    12:19pm
    We need to see those late comers actually getting on a plane and leaving for PNG before it will be at all credible, and by the sound of it, there's nothing there yet, so where will they stay?
    Anonymous
    23rd Jul 2013
    2:50pm
    Put them in big tents. It will take two years I see for the accomadation to be built. If Tony turns back the boats, we won't need to spend squillions on accomadation.
    Wstaton
    23rd Jul 2013
    12:44pm
    It would appear that people think once something is announce that it will happen instantly. Whether you are or not in favour of this surely some time should be given for all the procedures are put into place. Heaven forbid if I say I am going to may a million dollars and the next day someone criticizes me the next day for not making it.

    I have just been listening to Mr Abbott on chn24 effectively destroying this initiative by broadcasting to all the people smugglers that this will not work. I guess these smugglers will now be recording this and showing it to all the refugees.
    Ted
    23rd Jul 2013
    1:33pm
    Great discussion and great debate. You know it might be cheaper for us to charter planes and just send the whole lot back to where they came from, including those here for the last 10 years who are not now tax paying citizens. This is never going to be settled unless we take a very hard line. Anyone who has had a hard time in Australia will tell you this is not the land of milk and honey. This is the land where if you were born here you get nothing and you get to pay taxes for the privilege of it then when you get old you get more of nothing. Lets just send them back via plane shut the door and take off. Its only our problem because past policies, yes by all parties, have made it very attractive to come here. Its time to take the hard line, and make the refugees who are rioting and burning places down, live in the mess that they create. You burn it down, you live in it. If you don't like it, go home, if your unhappy go home and dont try to change us in the process. Until taxpayers say no more this won't stop. So I will get the ball rolling...no more I refuse to pay anymore tax towards this issue. Who is going to join me?
    Wstaton
    23rd Jul 2013
    1:46pm
    This is getting ridiculous. I have just viewed a video where 3 teenagers (16 and 17)are saying they will still get on a boat to get to Australia. People smugglers are saying to them the things put in place are not working and they won't be sent to PNG.

    What amazes me is how these teenagers have suddenly come into $10,000 each that these trips are supposed to cost.
    pauline
    23rd Jul 2013
    2:13pm
    Those of you who support Abbot's plan to turn the boats around
    have simply no idea of how determined these asylum seekers are to reach to Australia. They do not give up so easily...and it will just be a matter of time before they try again. Turning back the boats is easier said than done. The PNG solution is not the perfect solution but it is better than doing nothing to stop the boats from coming.
    Young Simmo
    23rd Jul 2013
    2:16pm
    Yes Pauline, that is what I said in a different way, but at least we agree.
    Wstaton
    23rd Jul 2013
    2:19pm
    You are right Pauline except for one thing. We have yet to learn what Tony Abbots plan is. At the moment it seems "I have a Plan" and that's all.
    sensible senior
    23rd Jul 2013
    5:56pm
    turn the boats back and i say if they want to sabotage their boat let them sink or swim. we could send them rubber dingys with oars and they could paddle their way back
    Young Simmo
    23rd Jul 2013
    7:12pm
    sensible senior, you almost got it right, there is one small item I would suggest. Give them a 1 metre oar and a 5 metre oar, exercise complete....... I was going to say one right hand oar and one left hand oar, but where do you find a Politician that could comprehend that sort of information.
    carmencita
    23rd Jul 2013
    2:37pm
    I think this is a good policy to stop the boats and stop those who are not genuine asylum seekers. Those who are really running from persecution could stay in refugee camps established by the UN. It is those who want to jump the queue for whatever reason (criminal intention, running away from crimes, or dumb enough to believe the promise by people smugglers). We have homeless Australians and those who are struggling to get by their everyday needs such as food and utility bills. Yet these supposedly asylum seekers are given priority in terms of medical, food, and shelter . Yet, ungrateful by burning the million dollar facilities built for them. This alone should disqualify them from being admitted to Australia as this showed their potential for criminal behaviour. Political parties should get behind this policy instead of trying to up their election campaign by saying just about anything to destroy a policy that's going to address the issue. I think it is shameful that politicians prioritise winning election instead of addressing an issue that's good for Australia and Australians.
    unicorn
    23rd Jul 2013
    4:21pm
    ll we hear from this and other conversations is i8t is a good idea to stop the boats now the A.B.SC. news at lunch time is saying that the indonesians will still come no matter what, they even showed some young folk who said we've got no money & Indonjesia has none either so how can they help us we'd be better off taking a boat and making our wayto Australia. Because there is only a few of us they will not realise we shouldn't be here so won't take us to P.N.G.
    What the ABC reporter should have asked them is how come they expect that we have so much money we are too busy giving it away to countries like Indonesia. What great reporting & what a gide these teens have.
    Huskie
    23rd Jul 2013
    5:36pm
    To Paddles, if you say to yourself and others that something cannot be done, it never will be! Just keep toeing the party line and not give any possible solutions - realistic or otherwise.

    "A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."

    Margaret Mead
    Young Simmo
    23rd Jul 2013
    6:02pm
    OK, it seems to me reading these pages that 80% to 90% of people in here hate Kevin Rudd with a vengeance. Sooooooo, how come the Poles have him and "Would be if he Could be" within a couple of points of each other. I think somebody is telling Porkies.
    toot2000
    23rd Jul 2013
    6:17pm
    Ruddy has a history of making sensational statements and not following up with details of how it will work. The insulation bats was a great idea but he didn't foresee that greedy contractors would send innocent young men to their deaths. Same with the school hall initiative, companies were ripping the government off left right and centre and made a fortune. I hope the TPNG plan works but it sounds like they are still going to keep coming - why?
    toot2000
    24th Jul 2013
    7:19am
    How about a debate between Abbott and Rudd on Q and A?
    unicorn
    24th Jul 2013
    8:22am
    Kevin Rudd asked for a debate Tony Rabbit said NO ! End of subject
    sensible senior
    24th Jul 2013
    11:53am
    tony abbott said he would debate him when he calls an election and that fine with me. why waste his time
    Pass the Ductape
    24th Jul 2013
    3:55pm
    Why would Tony Abbott you give any more ideas to 'Kind Kevin"?

    Rudd the dud has already taken on board the opposition's policies concerning most things. It's about time Rudd the dud and his labour team came up with some of their own. End of subject!
    unicorn
    24th Jul 2013
    8:26am
    I forgot to add, he, Bony Tony ran away shaking.
    sensible senior
    24th Jul 2013
    10:02am
    i find your remark digusting and an insult to thin people SHAME
    Anonymous
    24th Jul 2013
    10:21am
    Athletic Tony is streets ahead of porky Krudd who looks like he needs a bra and a tummy tuck.
    sensible senior
    24th Jul 2013
    11:27am
    love it surfer he also needs his mouth washed out with soap. how can he go to church
    Anonymous
    24th Jul 2013
    3:14pm
    Imagine him taking the plate around, he would put in $5 dollars and take out $10 change. Then charge a fee for taking the plate around.
    Boof
    24th Jul 2013
    9:03am
    Has everyone forgotten the way Abbott's mentor, John Howard, treated the aged pensioners, and for that matter, all pensioners, in this country for ten years. Do we want another regime like that, For another ten years or more? I wonder who Clive Palmer is giving his preferences to? Got a fair idea. Pauline? H'mm. There's a thought. Oh, just vote for a Muslim candidate. It is the inevitable outcome, eventually, anyway. Infidels.
    MITZY
    24th Jul 2013
    1:47pm
    Boof: Just remember when it comes to a YES or NO vote with the referendum on local councils being accounted for in the Federal constitution, please vote NO. If you vote NO councils will still get their funding passed down from federal to state governments and local programmes implemented, that's already the case. However the constitutions of State Governments are different from our Federal constitution. Voting YES will tie us to the United Nations even more so through the current AGENDA21 WORLD ENVIRONMENTAL CONFORMITY and who knows what else in the future, I believe there next project is WORLD GOVERNMENT FOR ALL. I heard somewhere that State constitutions have no reference/connection with the United Nations. We have not been given any proper insight into the YES or NO cases and I hate making a decision on anything without first getting the nitty gritty details.
    If you are worried about certain ethnic nationalities infiltrating their customs here through local council laws through changed legislation etc. you only have to look no further than the situation in the United Kingdom. NO is better than YES when the implications are not really crystal clear.
    Anonymous
    24th Jul 2013
    3:17pm
    I agree, make sure you vote no and tell all your friends. Government is pushing the yes vote and spending heaps more on advertising the yes vote to con us.
    sensible senior
    24th Jul 2013
    5:41pm
    i agree with you egyptian on the no vote and i will definately voting no
    MITZY
    26th Jul 2013
    9:46am
    Thanks for the positive comments. It worries me that after Agenda21 is safely tucked to bed, the UN is going to push for Agenda-World Government. In a scenario such as this there is no incentive left to better oneself in life. Collect all the money world-wide and distribute it world-wide for UN projects. Every single person the world over all the same, that project would leave us all with nothing to look forward to. We would all end up the rich and the poor, the intellectually able and disabled being treated like a "world soup kitchen".

    24th Jul 2013
    10:18am
    I don't think anyone would want to be PM to have to clean up the mess labor has us in. Carbon tax, illegal boat people, over 300 billion of debt and still blowing out. This is after record income. Never getting a surplus, Rudd's lies, stabbing Julia, pink batts and the deaths rudd is directly responsible for, unnessary school halls and now the defunct Gonski. How much more would you like. Who wants to inherit this mess. Only attention seeking Krudd.
    SuzeB
    24th Jul 2013
    10:54am
    Maybe the Opposition don't seem to be trying too hard because they don't want to inherit this mess. Really, if the Opposition gets in it's probably going to be tough times and we know how people hate tough times. When individuals find themselves affected by policy, opinions can change very quickly. In the meantime, there's another boat missing this morning. Smugglers don't care, they got their money, it doesn't matter what kind of wreck they transport people in. The people smugglers have already sussed how close PNG is to Qld and will be making their 'what if' plans. Even people who are rejected can drag out their stay for years - free legal appeals, supported by the government while they wait. I can see smugglers, Indonesia, PNG all snickering behind their hands.
    Young Simmo
    24th Jul 2013
    11:25am
    SuzeB, I'm not sure exactly what my thoughts should be when boat people get lost at sea. The only thing I can think of is, each one lost probably saved the Australian tax payer a quarter of a million dollars. Correct me if you think I am wrong.
    Young Simmo
    24th Jul 2013
    11:37am
    Ok after reading:
    heyyybob
    22nd Jul 2013
    1:48pm......I will change a quarter of a million dollars to, $139,000.
    MITZY
    24th Jul 2013
    2:06pm
    Surfer: All leaders in office are attention seekers" they get their attention in all different ways.

    However, Surf, isn't there a group of people in Indonesia who could surrepticiously in the stealth of night, douse the unsafeworthy boats in fuel and set a match to them. It could take a long time to build some more??

    With respect to Gonski Surfer, it's not defunct, its changed its name to "The Better Schools Programme". There is currently lots of ads for the "Better Schools Programme" as well as the NDIS. In Rudd's Speech after being voted by Caucus once more, he indicated that Gonski who is an adviser to Therese Rein's business (and noted on official govt. registers) didn't like the idea of calling his educational reforms a Gonski. The underlying benefits of some of the other programmes initiated during the GFC didn't render all of them disasters.
    Anonymous
    24th Jul 2013
    3:08pm
    No wonder Rudd changed the name from Gonski as that would frighten everyone off. However I will be surprised if the major states of QLD, WA, Vic, and Northern Territory come on board. So defunct may be correct. The NDIS is a joke with no funding. Just a cruel blow for the handicapped. What about the NBN, another disaster not mentioned. How much do you think that will finally cost. Don't worry just chalk it up to OZ taxpayers and their children. So you are right, there maybe one that is'nt a disaster.
    MITZY
    26th Jul 2013
    10:40am
    Surfer: The NDIS is not a joke. The Medicare Levy has been raised to fund the first three years of the policy and the NDIS is not happening all at once. It is programmed over several years, it takes effect in stages. The Better Schools programme is being sabotaged by Abbott. Today the SMH indicates in part, "On philosophical terms, Liberals would welcome Gonski under other circumstances. It fits their worldview that equality of opportunity matters more than equality of outcome". It frightens (which is natural) Tony Abbott that his lead in the polls has slipped so much. Presently he is clutching at straws in order to stay on top, but when I watch him with his slogans and when he indicates certain policies of Labor are worthwhile but would be better managed under Libs, every one agrees. We think within the square instead of outside of it. The saddest thing about opposing something that is of benefit to bringing education levels up to the best or better than the rest of the world's in the next five years for every student is that if you oppose something like this programme, you have just disavantaged half of the student population of this country. How will the parents of those children in those States feel if they are not part of it.
    I was just reading an editorial in the SMH an hour ago indicating: "The pressure Tony Abbott is putting on Queensland's Campbell Newman to keep rejecting the Gonski/Better Schools Programme must be unbearable for him. It will be nothing, however, compared with the pressure mums and dads will apply to Newman and Abbott if Queensland doesn't sign up to Gonski this week". Victoria is close to signing, now that the Victorian Catholic Schools have signed up.
    Surfer, it's a good article and well worth reading. The end of the article says: QUOTE: Time is running out. But as voters wait for Abbott's answers, they may wish to ask themselves three questions: Does every child deserve a chance to fulfil their potential? Is the current system doing that? Is a consistent federal system better than the mishmash state-federal one now? UNQUOTE.
    There are a lot of "why's" and "wherefore's" challenging us but education shouldn't be sabotaged.
    With respect to NBN this is a monumental nation building programme. Politics are very prominent in the rhetoric we read and watch. Whoever was building it, would be faced with the same problems. Telstra has indicated a lot of it is not the government's fault. I have no idea if it is a worthwhile project or not, but the only point I've noticed in the newspapers letter pages and on various postings is that it is better to be made up fully with the new technology and not a mix-match of old and new technology. The end result of Gonski and NBN seems to be similar, one education system and one NBN system the same format over the whole country.
    Ritza
    24th Jul 2013
    11:45am
    What would Tony do?
    Anonymous
    24th Jul 2013
    3:09pm
    Pull his hair out by the roots when he gets the real labor picture.
    MITZY
    24th Jul 2013
    2:21pm
    We've all got very frenetic about this issue. It would be a good idea to go to the official government immigration website data and have a read. So many people here have indicated what is the POLICY between Australian and PNG.

    Go to www.immi.gov.au/visas/humanitarian/novisa/

    It states the new immigration law and press releases etc. There are transcripts of everything available in English AS WELL AS Arabic;Tamil;Sinhalese;Farzi;Dari;Vietnamese and Pashto.

    24th Jul 2013
    3:23pm
    The whole agreement with PNG was done on two sheets of A4 copying paper. Now PNG has an open cheque book from OZ. Corruption has always flourished over there. I am now terrified. Think I will close down my business interests and bail out.

    24th Jul 2013
    3:26pm
    Have we all gone bonkers in OZ?????? Are they putting something in our water???? I might have to vote for Clive Palmer, at least he has a few bob left.
    MITZY
    26th Jul 2013
    11:13am
    Yes, Surfer, they did put something in the water, it was called fluoride. It may be good for hardening the enamel on the teeth, but in due course the teeth still rot underneath it. I recently read a report that all the inmates in the gaols in America where fluoride still exists in the water, the authorities have put higher amounts into the water and it has a "calming" effect on the inmates and they don't cause too much trouble to the authorities watching their behaviour.
    unicorn
    24th Jul 2013
    3:27pm
    Sorry SS seems you and Surfer can say anything derogatory about Kevin Rudd but nobody as allowed to say naughty things about Rabbit oops sorry Abbot.
    sensible senior
    24th Jul 2013
    7:51pm
    you can say what you like unicorn i dont like to attack the man but people on here continually attack tony abbott and i dont degrade the man with horrible remarks like you and geomac. cheers. is he ab good leader no is he a good entertainer yes.
    Pass the Ductape
    24th Jul 2013
    4:06pm
    Confucius say...Man who picks ear and eats wax, has slippery tongue.
    sensible senior
    24th Jul 2013
    5:38pm
    Ductape i had a young girl in the office who used to do that all the time it was revolting eventually i told her how bad it looked, if i think it just became a habit.
    Young Simmo
    24th Jul 2013
    6:01pm
    Confucius say… man who fish in other man’s well often catch crabs

    Confucius Say: Woman who put husband in dog house, will soon find him in cat house.

    Confucius Say: Man who go round with hole in pocket feel cocky all day!
    Pass the Ductape
    25th Jul 2013
    6:43am
    Aaa ha ha ha ha Young Simmo! Love it when you come on board with your humour. Sensible Senior - oh my God! I wonder why they do this? Can't be the taste surely?
    Boof
    24th Jul 2013
    5:56pm
    Egyptian.. I was aware of that, thanx. we must vote NO to the referendrum. It will be no doubt put in a way as to confuse those with little knowledge of the British circumstances, where Sharia Law has been implemented in some councils districts.
    I hope someone passes this on to the general public.
    sensible senior
    24th Jul 2013
    7:59pm
    boof i have friends in australia from england and also relies in england and i have passed on as many emails on this matter that i could. cheers
    Adecaparas
    24th Jul 2013
    7:43pm
    During election time, these politicians on all parties are just creating bubbles in the air. Voters themselves must do a lot of thinking and analysis on what they are saying and on who can be trusted. Rudd had his chance of winning before and what happened to all his election bubbles?..Either broken and if implemented, they were blunders..a big flop! He is the most unreliable person and the poorest manager of anything; he is just good as a rock star, a vote getter.. I don't think he is a deep thinker. Regarding asylum seekers, until the government install a very good immigration policies, this problem will not stop. Whatever solution they implement now will have to be temporary until they create a tightrope legislation regarding asylum immigrations. If Australians will have to shoulder all these asylum seekers needs and wants..then time will come when we ourselves will be just like all these asylum seekers..penniless, hungry, and beggars. Right now, some Australians already sleep on streets, begging for food, shouldn't we first care for the australians before we worry about all these stupid-crazy humanitarian rights?..Adecaparas
    unicorn
    25th Jul 2013
    8:52am
    And I liked the news this morning where Tony was telling a deliberate lie as stated by the PM of P.N.G.I heard also that the boat people continue now to Christmas Island why hasn't Tony stopped them yet because what he says he will do will get us into more trouble. Saint Tony you want to try again. At least Mr Rudd is not deliberately putting any lives in danger.
    sensible senior
    25th Jul 2013
    9:20am
    what lie unicorn and why wont kevin rudd come clean and give us all the details ALL SPIN. at least the coalition plan worked and what happens if this deal falls through can rudd go back to indonesia for help after he left them out of the loop. think not. p.n.g is only protecting their huge windfall thats all
    unicorn
    25th Jul 2013
    9:01am
    These asylum seekers so called are not Penniless, hungry, beggars as stated. They can afford to pay anything up to $10,000 to the people smugglers or Captains of these leaky tubs to be brought out here, when if they had papers they could afford to fly out here in luxury. If they have no papers they should not expect to be given a house and food etc., upon arrival. Then riot & trash everything we own when they can't get their own way. I just imagine how we would be treated in their countries if the boot was on the other foot.
    Young Simmo
    25th Jul 2013
    9:29am
    Yes unicorn, I would like to see that mob that burnt the camp down made to sleep on the ground rail, hail or shine until the repairs are carried out. Also make their wives and kids do the same thing so they can tell their mates back home with their free mobile phones. But where do you find a Politician with GUTS, certainly not in Australia.
    unicorn
    25th Jul 2013
    11:15am
    No Tony pretends he has the guts but I doubt he would carrt out the threats he has made against the boats. By the way I would maybe repair them when there was time but not for them I'd give them a jail term to start with.
    unicorn
    25th Jul 2013
    11:19am
    To SS Maybe you ought to listen to the news of a morning that is where I heard about it. On the ABC news.
    sensible senior
    25th Jul 2013
    1:09pm
    i would not take credence with anything the abc tells me remember the fiasco when a tender was called and the abc got the job by default thanks to the labor government.b they are so biased i watched what was said by mr.O'Neill and he is only safeguarding all the money he is going to get from australia and believe you me he can change his mind at any time when we are left with a huge bill and nothing to show for it. i read on line many newspapers etc and this idea is going down the gurgler with the people. unicorn i will say this i would like nothing more than a resolution to this matter and i dont care who thought of it i would give credit where credit is due but this is a hurried thought what about our roads that are killing people every day, our hospitals where we are sadly lacking and i live in north queensland and yes if there is a large amount of people let free they could come to north qld no trouble. another thought is they young boys molested in camp do we want these people in australia, i sure dont.
    Sally-Jane
    25th Jul 2013
    12:11pm
    Like I've said before, get rid of the UN and their stand over rot, and the boats will no longer be our financial responsibility. If our money is cut off to them, they would no longer want to come here. Simple, problem fixed. Why haven't the big wigs thought of this before.
    Young Simmo
    25th Jul 2013
    12:16pm
    Sally-Jane, we are all aware of that simple solution, the hard part is finding a politician with some good old fashioned guts. Impossible in Australia.
    sensible senior
    25th Jul 2013
    1:28pm
    Sally-Jane i read in the newspapers re mr. abbott talking about that also bringing in the army
    Adecaparas
    25th Jul 2013
    1:18pm
    if australian refugee immigration policies are put in clear perspective, all these problems will surely find easy solution.. example: why give taxpayers money to other country to help in our refugee problems?..do all the entry here in our land; accept in all those with legal papers and send outright the illegals back home..'law is law' back-up our laws; those with legal papers must follow our rules and law, like..we must state that all legal refugees has to immediately work on farms, mining, cleaning, garbage collections, bush maintenance, roads and bridges infrastructures, housing commission constructions, etc. for at least 5 year period before they can apply for citizenships and be entitled to ordinary australian citizens benefits like doles, medicare, housing, etc.
    no refugee must be given centrelink benefits, all must have health and accident insurance, housing rentals, and no medicare benefits, all these expenses must be paid by them from their wages; those who are skilled like teachers, engineers, nurse, doctors must take an exam and if they pass.. they could be allowed to seek job as in job search allowance. These new refugee migrant must agree wherever place they will be placed.. but they must get the standard Australian wages when they start working..if we have this kind of refugee immigration rules and laws, i am sure the boat arrivals will be worth for both Australia and refugees. Work your brain australian politicians: congress and senate....adecaparas
    Sally-Jane
    25th Jul 2013
    2:28pm
    Genuine refugees would be just so grateful to be taken in and be willing to do whatever was needed to make themselves welcome (as did most nationatilies in the past). But this lot demand that we change our Aussie ways to suit them while grabbing the handouts with both hands (probably sending it back home so the next boat load can head here). I agree NO papers definately NO entry.Also make them sign an agreement to live in Aus as an Aussie abiding by Aussie laws or NO entry. See how many want to stay then. Soon sort the real refugees from the money grabbers.
    catsahoy
    25th Jul 2013
    8:15pm
    i didnt get the full interview, but heard something about TONY ABBOT, getting the coastguards involved and turning them back, this is what should be happening, i may sound uncharitable, but i dont want them here, especially until we fix our own problems, housing, schools, hospitals,jobs for the unemployed,the elderly. why are we responsible for there woes? we are not, send them back,
    catsahoy
    25th Jul 2013
    8:15pm
    i didnt get the full interview, but heard something about TONY ABBOT, getting the coastguards involved and turning them back, this is what should be happening, i may sound uncharitable, but i dont want them here, especially until we fix our own problems, housing, schools, hospitals,jobs for the unemployed,the elderly. why are we responsible for there woes? we are not, send them back,
    sensible senior
    26th Jul 2013
    8:01am
    meanwhile back in australia what about the bomb that was placed outside the police station. the muslims have claimed that they did it because of the way they were treated by the police during their demonstration. how can they justify this some innocent person, child etc could have been hurt. i am so upset about this. are we now going to be like britain or the u.s.a. i hope they catch the person involved and give them their just deserts. there is no need for this we are a peaceful country and i would like to keep it that way.
    FEDUP
    26th Jul 2013
    11:44am
    Firstly, to send these asylum seekers to PNG, is both inhumane and religiously stupid. PNG is a Christian country (mostly Catholics) which is unlikely to allow the building of temporary Mosques for the religious.

    Secondly, as 95% of the refugees are coming from Iran, and Afghanistan, this represents a total of 47,500 of the 50,000 boat people that have come to Australia. Do they get preference over other religious groups?

    Thirdly, if these so called refugees, are coming as Economic migrants, why are they able to jump the cue of those coming from Europe, for example?

    Fourthly, if these so called refugees are able to fly into Indonesia, pick up a visa to Australia, why has not the Australian Consul General or Ambassador to Indonesia, stopped processing same.

    Fifthly, The agreement with PNG, is ill-fated as a two page agreement would never stand up in court. I note with interest that when the signing of the two agreements took place,
    The Prime Minister of Australia, grabbed both copies. The signed agreement was not exchanged. Does that tell you that there is something ponging in Papua.

    Lastly, it has been stated by the representative of Manus Island, that it will take 2 years for the building of proper facilities to be built there.

    Surely at the rate of the boats still coming, and those which will come in the next months,
    so as to beat the election day, which will require them going to Christmas Island, Manus Island or Nauru (which was half destroyed by fire), they will then allow more into Australia.
    Also what is to stop agents from Al Qaeda from infiltrating from these Middle East countries, getting assistance from militant terrorists in Indonesia, and coming to Australia to recruit more terrorists in the name of Allah.
    Now you may think that I am a religious fanatic, and have bias against Muslims' and followers of Allah. Nothing could be further from the truth, I am an Atheist, but have read both the Bible and the Koran, which I find to be a book of love, not hate.
    We all should assist true refugees, but to what cost do we pay, for those that are not?
    toot2000
    26th Jul 2013
    11:57am
    I like Abbott's idea of a military solution, the armed forces will get to do something more useful than playing war games, great idea Tony, bring it on.
    catsahoy
    26th Jul 2013
    11:15pm
    i dont like either of them really, and abbott just doesnt do it for me, but must admit i like his idea of bringing the millitary and coastguards into play,turning them back is the only solution i feel,

    26th Jul 2013
    2:31pm
    Totally agree with toot2000. Only Tony has the ability and brains to sort this out. His solution is plain common sence. The other poor galloot is incapable of any solution. He runs around like a chook with its head cut off. Lucky we have a real man to fall back on.
    sensible senior
    26th Jul 2013
    6:15pm
    i agree entirely with you fedup in the u.s. now as reported on phoprecy news islam are taken over parts of the u.s.a. i am trying to post the article but having trouble doing so. it is scary
    unicorn
    27th Jul 2013
    8:05am
    I like my idea of giving the navy some practice of shelling anything that comes within range if they were to be stationed at the right distance out from our shores to warn hem not to9 come any closer but I have been told by the people on this forum that one can't do that what's different with Tony's idea ? I can just imagine Australia's standing if we were to do this good God it would mean WW 3.
    toot2000
    27th Jul 2013
    10:37am
    I'm sick to death of Indonesia's attitude. They have turned a blind eye to people smugglers for years and refused to offer any help, it's Australia's problem they say. They make me sick, I want our government to stop bending over backwards to please them, grow a backbone and start laying down some laws of our own.
    aquatrek
    30th Jul 2013
    5:05pm
    we did regarding East Timor and on an Indonesian only interview panel a cupla weeks ago they stated that that 'intervention' was still a sore point.
    In 100 years or so PNG and Irian Jaya will be at serious loggerheads due to the untapped natural resources on both halves of the very large island complex.
    Australia would do well to take on PNG in a much more serious manner as they will be the only buffer between Oz and the Asian hordes. Just a long range thought.
    unicorn
    27th Jul 2013
    12:22pm
    Me too toot2000 I couldn't agree more seems though it doesn't mater who is in power though they all seem to suck up to Indonesia.
    Jacks
    28th Jul 2013
    10:28am
    When Kevin Rudd announced Labor’s new asylum seeker policy yesterday, my knee-jerk reaction was to be very concerned.I am now looking at his asylum seeker policy change and wondering if he’s done something unacceptable, or if he’s again being pragmatic in the very less than ideal world of an electorate who hate ‘boat people’.When you’ve got every news outlet in the country, including the ABC, reporting every single asylum seeker boat arrival like it’s an invasion by an alien species, it’s no wonder there are large portions of the Australian public who feel justified in their bigoted hatred of people arriving by boat. When the media reports the devastating news that asylum seekers have drowned on their journey to Australia, the government is blamed for these deaths. Because they didn’t ‘stop the boats’.But then when the government attempts to find a way to convince asylum seekers to stay where they are, to wait for resettlement, to not get on a boat, the very same people who are complaining about the dangers of coming by boat, are complaining about the policy alternative being cruel and inhumane. Let’s get something straight. Kevin Rudd can’t stop people who come by boat from drowning. If people choose to come by boat, a certain percentage of them will drown. I don’t want to stop asylum seekers. I just want them not to get on a boat. In fact, if Rudd’s policy of sending asylum seekers to PNG does stop people coming to Australia by boat, won’t this policy also stop drownings?And how about the people who have been stuck in Indonesian refugee camps indefinitely because they can’t afford to pay a people smuggler to bring them to Australia? Aren’t these people disadvantaged by their extreme poverty? If Australia agrees to provide a certain number of Humanitarian Visas each year, and the quota is filled by those asylum seekers who have survived the boat trip to Australia, what happens to the people who can’t afford to come by boat? I don’t think we talk about these forgotten people enough.
    sensible senior
    28th Jul 2013
    11:52am
    i believe gthe p.n.g. deal is not going to happen. i like tony abbotts plan to a point i think they should appoint a special board to deal with the problem leave the government outside the loop so as to get on with governing our country. this board has the sole right to make decisions without any government interventions but are accountable to the highest order which could be three exemplentary high court retired judges.
    unicorn
    28th Jul 2013
    5:28pm
    I feel it is looking for trouble big time what are they going to do when something goes wrong they will say "oh dear it wasn't us it was that comittee" Oh yes just imagine it.High Court Judges are no better than anyone else they could appoint, don't tell me that they are perfection, rubbish they were just as likely to accept a bribe as anybody.
    sensible senior
    29th Jul 2013
    8:43am
    unicorn just tell me what has gone wrong since k rudd came into power in 2007 he started the rot lots of deaths etc and i could go on. we are not making the right decision now and what rudd said about tony abbott and turn back the boats could have also effected a war. if you dont like retired judges put an attorney there in place to advise on what they are doing. this png so called answer is just a stunt written on a4 paper how would that stand up in court

    28th Jul 2013
    9:23pm
    Do what i said years ago,turn Christmas Island into a Military zone?
    Its simple and will be effective,set our own non entry area,say 200 klm Radius,just no entry into a military zone.Simple.
    It works at Pine Gap!
    Pass the Ductape
    29th Jul 2013
    8:07am
    Great idea but will never work simply because it's too damn logical
    unicorn
    29th Jul 2013
    2:07pm
    SS no wonder there aRE LOTS OF DEATHS since 2007 it would not matter who was in charge even if Jpohn Howard had won the battle more illegals coming here in leaky tubs with b's in charge trying to make money = more idiots coming here in thousands like they are alsoo making their way to where ever they can just lkoook at the many making their way to Spain at tge moment. Australia is not the only place where this is happening though you may kike to copy some of Frances odeas they are not being inundated at the moment even though these people can get there just as well as to Spain & Greece. Thye have it passed as laws of their country it is illehgal to wear their hoods whike driving. etc. etc. It is possibly the most senseble thinbg they could have done cause it makes their country uninviting to these peopl, maybe Tony might like to try hen a lot more will vote for him insad of his negativity.
    sensible senior
    29th Jul 2013
    6:40pm
    yes unicorn i definately like france ideas but most of all i like JAPAN IDEAS EVEEN BETTER ,
    particolor
    30th Jul 2013
    5:01pm
    HMMM!! After Not even attempting to read ALL of that !!!
    I couldn't Raise the Fare to Garden Island..So leave Crissy Island out of it...
    REFUGEES ????
    Ted
    2nd Aug 2013
    12:22pm
    Ohh senior so how do you feel about the group that was sent to PNG this week then if Rudd's solution is not going to happen? Whoops its happening!
    sensible senior
    2nd Aug 2013
    12:43pm
    Hi Ted dont get me wrong i dont care who thought of any solution i just want something to work but with mr. rudd in charge of this i wonder. i feel we are going to spend a lot of money on this and the u.n. will find it violates the u.n. convention also the lawyers here are contesting this , i know we have changed the rules but in fact the matter of their laws, violence etc in p.n.g. they are not safe also signed agreement is it legite this has not gone before the p.n.g. parliament yet so more to tell there. mr burkes remarks about the coalition letting the smugglers know the numbers they already know the nos and 1500 now wont belong before it is up to 5000 which i shudder. they are going to bring into law that p.n.g is a christain nation no other hooray. all these people seeking refuge i believe they should be taken back to their respective countries and given aid to settle them outside awar zone let the healthy men fight for their countries and we stay out of wars that do not conern us.


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