Renewable energy subsidy plan would ‘cut power prices’

Labor policy aims to secure power supplies and jobs, lower bills and cut pollution.

Labor plans to subsidise energy storage batteries

The Federal Labor Party’s long-awaited energy policy is a boon for renewable energy. It  aims to make power less expensive while reducing the carbon emissions produced by Australia’s electricity sector.

Included in the policy are subsidised lithium batteries to store rooftop-generated solar energy for one million homes and businesses within six years.

It is understood the initial rollout of the $2000 subsidies by 2020 would be to 100,000 means-tested premises, whose owners earned less than $180,000 a year.

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said this would go some way to achieving the Labor Party’s renewable energy target of 50 per cent by 2030 and emissions reductions to 45 per cent of 2005 levels, also by 2030, less than 12 years from now.

The batteries plan would be funded from the $10 billion boost Labor has pledged over five years for the Clean Energy Finance Corporation (CEFC).

This doubling of the CEFC’s investment capacity will support:

  • investments in large-scale generation and storage projects
  • a household battery program offering demand-driven concessional loans for the purchase of solar and battery systems
  • existing activities, including investments in energy efficiency projects, commercial and community renewable energy projects and industrial transformation. 

If elected, the party would also invest in measures to increase the efficiency and reliability of the ageing electricity grid by establishing an independent $5 billion Energy Security and Modernisation Fund that will support:

  • unlocking renewable energy through transmission links to Renewable Energy Zones
  • new interconnectors to lower electricity prices and boost system stability
  • new gas infrastructure, including pipelines and pipeline upgrades/extensions
  • technology solutions that facilitate the smooth integration of renewable energy into energy systems and promote energy security.

The plan to help lower electricity costs for households and businesses will focus on improving consumers’ energy efficiency. This agenda, which includes the introduction of a National Home Comfort Rating System, will cost $40 million over four years.

On the rooftop solar scheme, only skilled and accredited battery installers would be allowed to take part in it after completing a training program that will cost $10 million.

The program is a bid to avoid similar mistakes made when the flawed pink batts scheme was scrapped in 2010, following the deaths of a number of unqualified installers.

Another plank of the energy policy is the adoption of a market mechanism, such as former Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull’s doomed National Energy Guarantee (NEG). The NEG focused on encouraging the reliability of Australia’s electricity network, while working towards meeting the nation’s targeted emission reductions as agreed to in the UN Paris Agreement on climate change.

But in the dying days of the Turnbull government, conservative Coalition MPs managed to derail the strategy, which had bi-partisan support. Those MPs objected to the NEG’s failure to embrace new coal-fired power plants and its stated emissions reduction target.

According to some reports, anti-Adani coal mine activists swarmed around the offices of some Labor MPs ahead of the policy’s announcement, forcing their closure. Protesters outside the offices of Mr Shorten, Anthony Albanese and Queensland Premier Annastasia Palaszczuk claimed the refreshed policy did not do enough to encourage the emission reductions required to avoid the worst climate change impacts.

In a statement, the party said: “Labor’s Plan for More Renewable Energy and Cheaper Power will be good for households, good for the economy and good for the environment.

“It will help deliver 50 per cent of power from renewables by 2030, keep power prices lower, and create tens of thousands of jobs in the renewables industry.”

In a second statement, the party said it would not be pulling the rug out from under the feet of the coal mining and power generation industries.

“Coal will continue to be part of our energy mix into the future, and coal mining will continue to be an important industry for the Australian economy,” it said.

“But it’s impossible for ageing coal-fired power stations to stay open forever. And it’s irresponsible to pretend otherwise. Australia must have a plan to help workers and communities respond to future closures.”

If elected, the party would commit $10 million to a Clean Energy Training Fund to train workers in clean energy industries.

It will also require operators of coal-fired generators to give three years’ warning of any closures and mandate a pooled redundancy/transition scheme that would offer any new jobs in the pool to workers who had been made redundant by a closure.

Are you paying less for power since rooftop solar was installed on your house? Do you believe that incentivising further development of renewable energy and storage systems will produce cheaper electricity? Is there an issue that the ALP energy policy has failed to address?

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    COMMENTS

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    Kali-G
    23rd Nov 2018
    11:42am
    NEVER TRUST LABOR...PROMISES BIG...DELIVERS THE OPPOSITE!
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    12:31pm
    At least we know some of the troll identities now. Out in force today! All the comments are of the same sort.

    For genuine posters and readers:

    Labor introduced subsidies for rooftop solar. Wasn't that a huge success with the current government screaming blue murder, high electricity prices and removing subsidies they did not even pay for all the way to the next election.

    Renewables have STABILISED the grid. Batteries will do the same job as they have done in South Australia where they not only stabilise the grid but have saved the state money. Now one third paid for.
    You won't hear anything about the South Australian success with batteries but you will hear the cash for comment government rolls run the Labor, union and GetUp BS. It is what it is.
    Flagman
    23rd Nov 2018
    2:12pm
    Why is it Mick that anyone who has an opinion you don't like they have to be trolls and not genuine posters and readers!?
    You are as much of a troll for Labour as I am supposedly for the govt or whoever you believe I am trolling for.
    For what it's worth, I don't comment much because trolls like you are rude, uninformed and so far left you are out of sight, which could be good if you really were! You make me sick...
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:43pm
    Opinion?
    Is that what you call lies, half truths, avoidance of the facts and changing the subject?

    I have been rude and will continue to be so when appropriate. Discuss the FACTS, do not groom your man and avoid the lies and we'll get on well. You can't do that because you'll lose the debate. Sound familiar?
    Anonymous
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:53pm
    MICK, again we seem to be in agreement. Although your fast fingers dropped the letter "t", I presume you meant trolls and, yes, a lot of them will be pointing out the Labor, union and GetUp BS.
    maxchugg
    23rd Nov 2018
    6:16pm
    Mick refers to lies, half truths and avoidance of the facts.

    How about the fact that the computer models which made predictions about global temperature a decade ago were wildly inaccurate and that when worked backwards also produce results also totally incorrect answers?

    A student sent out 10257 questionnaires in relation to anthropogenic climate change, only 3146 came back, and from these 79 were selected, and, surprise, surprise, 98% gave the answer which was required. Yet a Petition Project which stated that there was no convincing evidence that human release of carbon dioxide is causing, or will cause catastrophic heating and disruption of the earth’s climate, and that there was substantial evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produced many beneficial effects, was signed by 31,487 scientists.

    What about the predictions made in 1990 that the Maldives would be under water by 2000? It hasn’t happened, and won’t.

    Then there were the predictions that the polar icecaps were going to melt. The one about the Antarctic has been abandoned, the one about the Arctic is rapidly being disproved – just look at the pictures of the ice which are available on the NSDIC site, ignoring the propaganda which is contradicted by the evidence.

    Then there were the predictions of endless drought which were immediately followed by substantial floods.

    David Suzuki made a total ass of himself on Q&A yet still stated that he wants politicians prosecuted for denying the evidence. What should happen is that those who have been responsible for the billions of dollars wasted to deal with a non-problem should be made accountable.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    8:53pm
    I am in stitches with the repeated lies.

    1. Apparently information from Getup has no value and information from the mainstream media is credible? Please pick me up from the floor. The exact opposite is the case. Watch some more 7 News OM.
    2. Computer models are inaccurate? You crack me up Max. Computing power continues to increase and the models get better and netter with every year. The predictions are starting to roll off the Press!
    3. Polar ice IS thinning quickly and we saw an ice shelf the size of Tasmania break off in the middle of the year. Amnesia Max? Greenland is now mostly sea ice free? Dementia maybe.
    4. Now you claim weather patterns are not changing. Tell that to our farmers who are experiencing harsher and more frequent droughts. There's more but why bother.
    5. Accountability needs to occur for governments and their coal partners because more is to come as they try to entrench their poison so that the game goes on.
    Your life would only be short Max but what you are sentencing your great grandchildren to is criminal. What a lowlife. A feel sad for anybody who behaves like that and your descendants will curse you for your betrayal. You have ravaged the planet and care not. Plenty of others in the same boat.
    maxchugg
    23rd Nov 2018
    11:32pm
    Mick, the comment about Getup has gone over my head, I have no idea what you are talking about and I only accept media reports when I have clear evidence of their reliability, something which seldom happens.
    You argue that computer models are accurate despite the fact that predictions they made a decade ago have been shown to be wildly inaccurate, and worked backwards they are equally inaccurate in calculating the state of the climate in the past. I have already given a very short list of dud predictions which the models have been made, I invite you to cite examples of any predictions which have been shown to be accurate.
    You fail to defend the fraudulent statement still circulated that 98% of scientists accept the theory of anthropogenic global warming or climate change. As I have shown, 31,487 scientists signed a statement which condemned the theory and also claimed that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide has been beneficial. So, if 31487 scientists represent only 2 % of the population, there would need to be 1,574,350 scientists who support the theory. So why is a bogus argument promoted and a more legitimate one ignored?
    You state that polar ice is thinning, obviously you did not visit the NDIS site which shows the polar ice each day, and indicates that it is growing rapidly in the Arctic, and, contrary to the predictions made by the computer models, the Antarctic has remained at a reasonably consistent level over the past decade. As for the large ice shelf breaking away recently, such events occur regularly, nothing to do with climate change, everything to do with the fact that when the ice moves too far away from the Antarctic continent it is broken away by the stormy seas which surround Antarctica, as compared with the Arctic ice, which is in something closer to a lake.
    As for the current droughts, remember Dorothea McKellar who wrote of Australia as a land of droughts and flooding rains. There have been worse droughts in the past, sadly others will come in the future, because weather is constantly changing.
    You talk of governments and their coal partners. Yet it is governments who are destroying the coal fired power stations in the nation. Strange actions for partners! To this add the fact that governments give massive support to the promoters of the theory of anthropogenic global warming and opposition to those who reject this theory. I don’t have the figures for Australia, but in the US this year the figure is $22 billion – yes, billion.
    Australia produces around 1.8% of the world’s atmospheric carbon dioxide. I’m sure you heard the chief scientist’s reply to the question of what would be the effect on the climate if Australia completely ceased emitting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. The answer was “negligible.” So spare me your sympathy from the ire of my descendants. I am in no doubt that time will prove my opinions to have been correct because it is already happening. On the other hand, I’m sure that there will be extreme anger for those who have left them with massive debts to pay for useless attempts to control the weather.
    Flagman
    23rd Nov 2018
    11:54am
    SPOT ON Kali-G, I WOULD NEVER TRUST SHORTEN... Worse than Rudd/Gillard, and that's saying something!
    Paulo
    23rd Nov 2018
    12:01pm
    Do you remember when Labor subsidised petrol to gas conversions to the tune of $1000. I rang to book a conversion the next day to find the price had risen by ..................$1000.
    THE SAME WILL HAPPEN WITH THIS $2000 subsidy, the dealers will merely put up the price and the public will be no better off.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:44pm
    Do you remember when Tony Abbott said we had high electricity process because of the Carbon Tax? And do you remember the whole pile of other lies he told before the election and then repealed 1200 pieces of legislation after it? I do!
    Anonymous
    23rd Nov 2018
    5:01pm
    Prices dropped after the carbon tax was repealed and this link will show that.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-17/joe-hockey-550-electricity-prices-carbon-tax-fact-check/6668552

    Yes, MICK, Abbott repealed thousands of bits of legislation that Labor didn't do in their 6 years. It was legislation that was no longer required because later legislation had made it obsolete. Are you working on any other scare tactics for your masters?
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    8:43pm
    Ha ha ha. Really funny.
    Labor did not repeal LNP legislation when it won but the LNP repealed ober 6 years of government. That tells a story....and pull the other one about "no longer required".

    I bothered to take the journey OM, something you repeatedly send me on whilst YOU never respond to any that I send back to you. So gunny that.

    Please note Chester said "said it appeared Mr Hockey had confused falls in electricity costs - estimated to fall by $200 a year in 2014-15 - with savings to whole household costs, which include electricity, gas, food, transport and other costs."

    You may also want to look at the Table further on. THERE WAS NO DECREASE IN THE COST OF ELECTRICITY.
    The other thing you conveniently forget is that Australians were fully compensated for the Carbon Tax and the slight rise in electricity prices. The tax free threshold went from $5000 to $18000. You are trying to con readers again.
    Anonymous
    23rd Nov 2018
    8:51pm
    Although at first reading it’s easy for an intelligent reader to conclude that Mick is indeed thick , you need to understand that he deliberately posts stupid stuff to confuse and lie about his hero Shorten and labor
    If GST was included in the price of fresh food today , prices will go up 10% ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL
    If then in 6 months the government abolished GST in fresh foods , prices will drop 10% , again ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL.
    Same logic for carbon tax

    If then fresh food prices or electricity prices rise due to other factors such as inflation, cost of production, weather etc , you cannot blame the repeal of GST OR abolishment of Carbon Tax for the increase
    But this is what Mick does , obfuscates and lies
    How low can one get . MICKS morals are a low as his leader Shortens
    Anonymous
    24th Nov 2018
    4:45pm
    MICK, they don't call the LNP "Lieberals" for nothing...
    TREBOR
    25th Nov 2018
    9:33pm
    Paulo - the fault is with the 'private' business model - which is totally dedicated to gaining as much cash as possible for the 'insider' group.

    Ho-hum, Loathie... stick to the subject..... I hate embarrassing you in front of the board all the time...
    Anonymous
    25th Nov 2018
    9:35pm
    same old idiotic ignorant comment from Trebor
    I was replying to Mick and was on point

    Why dont you take your feeble brain and go play with others with your low IQ
    pedro the swift
    23rd Nov 2018
    12:02pm
    Warning bells are ringing loud and something keeps shouting "pink batts" in my ear!
    This is NOT a good poiicy.
    Prices of batteries will go through the roof as will all costs associated with this plan.
    The ONLY way to ensure RELIABLE COST EFFECTIVE power is to return generation and distribution to gov. control. Private ownership in something like this does NOT work in consumers favour. We see this time and time again. Put important services in private hands and costs NEVER go down, not to mention the issues of security and foreign ownership and what that entails.
    As far as RELIABLE BASE LOAD goes the only way is what we currently use , COAL or GAS and we need to have a serious look at nuclear for the future. In spite of what all the naysayers come up with, its the only current option if we want to reduce CO2(if thats a real problem).
    Chooky
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:31pm
    You’re a liberal lover. What else would you say!
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:47pm
    The same old propaganda Liberal Party spew. You'd think they would stop paying guys like you to keep writing the same BS.
    Batteries are coming after the election. That'll be the beginning of the end for your coal industry bosses and the start of FALLING ENERGY PRICES.
    pedro the swift
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:50pm
    Liberal lover??? Don't know where you get that from. Never voted for them in my life, never will, unless they show a lot more sense than they have been for the last 30 + years.
    pedro the swift
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:53pm
    Its not liberal party propaganda!. it comes from knowing how power is generated and distributed. i would suggest you have a serious look at that subject before spruiking about how batteries will save the world. Never gonna happen. Yes, I wish they would pay me then maybe I might write the same BS as you seem to enjoy sprouting!
    Anonymous
    23rd Nov 2018
    5:04pm
    Just ignore the union bully boy tactics, pedro the swift. When all arguments fail because of a lack of facts, they attack the character of the messenger.
    Anonymous
    23rd Nov 2018
    5:13pm
    We need a Royal commission on Labor and Unions paying paid trolls to post on forums such as this
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    8:34pm
    Another Royal Commission into Labor Lothario? Why does that not surprise me.
    Funny how you turn the argument around when it is YOU writing propaganda for the right.
    Pathetic and unoriginal to boot. You must be on $10 an hour as not worth any more.
    GeorgeM
    23rd Nov 2018
    8:59pm
    Hey, pedro the swift, I found your comment the most balanced here - neither Liberal nor Labor slant. Exactly right when you say "ONLY way to ensure RELIABLE COST EFFECTIVE power is to return generation and distribution to gov. control. Private ownership in something like this does NOT work in consumers favour." Also, to ensure reliable & cheap Base Load power, "the only way is what we currently use , COAL or GAS and we need to have a serious look at nuclear for the future." Spot on!

    Shorten plans to blow-up $20 Billion (extra $10 Billion) handed over to CEFC, plus $5 Billion to an Energy Security and Modernisation Fund, plus wants to hand out tens of millions of dollars to various other parties as noted in the article. What an economic vandal! China, India & USA are not doing anything to meet the useless Paris accord, yet he wants to destroy this country's economy by going well beyond with the Paris agreed targets. This is after he refused to even reverse the Assets test changes which massively hit part-pensioners severely since Jan 2017! Why doesn't he simply hand over the money to all families directly and avoid the massive con he is planning to please the climate change greenie industry!

    No, Retirees don't have any friend among the major political parties, and must act to remove all 3 of them, in fact that's a duty for the sake of this country's future.
    Curious
    23rd Nov 2018
    12:05pm
    Energy-power supply is a vital element to our economy in a competitive world. We should not let the politicians playing politic on this matter for the security of our nation. If the Liberal government doesn't believe and invest in an efficient power supply and no one trust a Labor government can implement its power policy, God helps us.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:49pm
    We would already have much lower prices had the current coal owned government gone down the renewables road. All they want to do is spend over $100 billion of our money for polluting infrastructure which will end up being mothballed within 10 years. Luckily they won't get the chance and even the media barons will not be able to install them into government yet again.
    Buggsie
    23rd Nov 2018
    12:08pm
    Anyone would be better than the deadheads currently running our country. They are bereft of ideas, resistant to change and beholden to the coal lobby. Even the privatised power generators don't want to know them and are developing renewables at an ever increasing rate. My situation? About 4 years ago I installed a 3kW rooftop solar system at home and saved about 50% 0n my electricity bill. About 12 months ago I fully air conditioned the house and upgraded the rooftop system to 4.6kW. We run the system anytime we like, mostly all day and into the evening on hot nights. I now save about 60-70% on what my bill would be without solar. For example, 4 years ago without full air conditioning my quarterly summer bill was $660, last summer it was $240 and power prices have increased by more than 20% over that 3 year period. We also have solar hot water, the system being about 16 years old - its a big shock when the quarterly power account for our hot water is more that $8. Roll on Labor, lead the way, the current mob is useless! Buggsie.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:51pm
    Spot on Buggsie.
    When you get a battery the coal industry will begin to fold.
    When battery technology improves it will close the doors.
    Good riddance to the destroyers of our planet.
    greenie
    23rd Nov 2018
    12:34pm
    What a joke. So the rest of us pay for the lucky few to have the batteries installed.
    Hope I am not around when the base load systems are turned off and the blackouts begin.
    Chooky
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:42pm
    You’ve been listening to the liberal BS.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:54pm
    Are still riding around in a horse and buggy? But you support the destruction of life on this planet as we know it. What an offensive self interest little grub you are. Apologies for the serve but there are others on this planet who want to see their children live in inhabitable place. Clearly not you.
    For the record YOU pay precious little and were it not for renewables blackouts would be common place. You might also want to read about the South Australia battery success story.....something which the mainstream News have blacked out. That's what the right wing media do to hide the truth.
    Paddington
    23rd Nov 2018
    12:45pm
    Good one, Labor! LNP will never be able to address the issue whilst power is held by the far right, and the reason they got rid of their last moderate leader.
    Baseless, senseless arguments will be profuse but not enough to dampen the enthusiasm of the wise ones who know we have to come to terms with global warming and its devastating effects on our descendants.
    South Australia is a great example of the effectiveness of storage and feed back into th grid as noted by Mick.
    Solar on every roof should be the aim and no new house should be completed without its inclusion.
    Every thinking person supports renewables and shame on those who do not.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:55pm
    Spot on. Thank you for the agreement and support.
    Merlot
    23rd Nov 2018
    1:02pm
    What a bunch of twaddle! Regional Queensland ie Mackay and many, many other places only has one provider ERGON ENERGY. They are Government owned and charge huge prices. When are Labour going to allow competition in regional Queensland NOT LIKELY -and when will they lower our prices? Makes me so angry every time we see an advert about lower power prices in the South East. Yes, Queensland Government thinks everything below the Sunshine Coast is the only part of Queensland that should be looked at and spent on in Queensland. Regional towns are totally forgotten for everything, the list is too long to mention here.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:56pm
    If you only need occasional energy you will have solved your problem. Go for it.
    TREBOR
    25th Nov 2018
    9:36pm
    Merlot - Ergon as a single provider charge what the market will bear, based on what the other companies are charging....

    If they were government controlled the price could be controlled and not allowed to blow out to suit the fat pocket-books of executives, board members and shareholders (none of whom would be there in a public system).

    Plain as day...
    Julian
    23rd Nov 2018
    1:19pm
    Rubbish!

    We'll end up paying for it, and more!
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:57pm
    Have you noticed the tripling of energy costs in the past 10 years? Who is paying for that?
    Instead of trying to scapegoat the solution invest in your future. In your hands.
    Julian
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:06pm
    My comment relates to economics. Numerous promises made by BS in the lead up to the next election. All involve throwing money around, but where is it coming from??. With a massive debt approaching one trillion $ , is borrowing going to be beneficial? I think not. Compounding debt will only serve to enslave us even more.As investing in our future, politicians are only capable of investing in their own futures. Meanwhile we get the band aids which eventually fall off.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:40pm
    Yes....and we just has an $18 BILLION per year tax cut for the already rich who have absolutely no need of a tax cut of any sort. Why was this money not used to retire our growing debt? Up from $148 billion when Labor was pushed out to now $600 billion with absolutely nothing to show for it other than Royal Commissions into the Opposition and Unions and handouts to the mates.

    They both make promises. Agreed. But I'd rather be going with the batteries than with the coal party. Batteries are heading in the right direction just like solar panels were heading in the right direction. Even business agrees with that. The only party which disagrees is the current rotten to the core government owned and controlled by big business and the coal industry and it is there to do its business.
    floss
    23rd Nov 2018
    1:27pm
    Why go to battery storage when you can get a 22cents feed in tariff , the rest is good policy. Yes Mick S.A have learnt from past mistakes and may one day be a leader in renewables . The Liberals just have to think about Australia first and foremost.
    Old Geezer
    23rd Nov 2018
    1:31pm
    I agree Floss a battery makes no sense.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:01pm
    You're lucky to get 22 cents feed in tariff. Most are a fraction of that and ultimately we all need to learn the lessons of SA who have already paid back one third of the battery cost in one year.
    When Shorten gets in we'll add a battery. When batteries get bigger and cheaper we'll add a much larger battery so that we are self sufficient and feed back into the grid. That's when energy prices will start to fall in a big way. Of course the LNP and their trolls will not say boo.....just like they never commented on the hugely successful SA batteries. They did however manage to get rid of Weatherill as Premier.
    ex PS
    28th Nov 2018
    11:40am
    You have a point floss, I actually am lucky enough to get 44 cent rebate. BUT, in the year 2025 my contract will expire and I like many others will be at the mercy of the market, and as we all know, the market shows no mercy. Come renewal time, my feed in tariff could shrink to a quarter of what I are getting now.

    Every dollar I receive in feedback rates is going into an account that will fund my battery system when my contract expires, by the time it does, I will probably have enough. Batteries make sense to those with the forethought to plan ahead and not let political ideology trump good business decisions. A fool and their money is soon parted. floss, you may have a guaranteed lock in price for life, I wouldn't know, and in that case your argument is quite persuasive, but not many people are that lucky.
    Old Geezer
    23rd Nov 2018
    1:30pm
    Who in their right mid would buy a battery that takes 25 years to pay for with savings on their bill for a battery that lasts 10 years even with a $2000 subsidy? Who has a spare $10,000 to invest in such a folly. Yes I have blackouts but $5 in fuel fuels my generator for a long time.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:03pm
    Not so. With a $2000 rebate and a smaller battery the payback period is much much shorter. If you get a Tesla it'll take long but the 25 years you quote is false. You conjured that up to deceive readers OG. What is your source????
    ex PS
    28th Nov 2018
    12:01pm
    OG I don't understand how you propose to pay of a $10,000.00 debt. Is it your understanding that you would be on a sound business basis by just putting the money you get back into servicing your debt?

    Assuming you had to borrow the money, you use $600.00 of electricity, you get a rebate of $126.00, any fiscally responsible person would pay down $726.00 of their liability and save money on interest due. You are no worse off as you would have had to pay the bill anyway, your payback period then shrinks from 25 to less than 5 years depending on the interest rate. With a government rebate the option is even more cost effective.

    Maybe people should think about how essential is is to have the latest " Intelligent" TV, or a new 4*4 that never goes off road or a phone that does everything but make toast, before they bemoan the fact that they can't afford Solar Power.

    Knowing that our current electricity supply system is broken beyond repair and doing nothing to protect yourself is stupid, if you stick your head in the sand and wait for someone to solve your problem, you will probably end up having someone come along and kick you in a very tender area.

    23rd Nov 2018
    2:20pm
    When I heard Bill say he was going to spend , sorry WASTE $200M on freebies , the nightmare of pinkbatts flashed through my mind
    Only this time , it will be an even bigger smdusaster . What an absolute moron
    Old Geezer
    23rd Nov 2018
    2:38pm
    A lot of insurance companies won't insure houses with batteries so it Is going to be interesting to see what happens when these batteries catch fire.


    No it's not pinkbatts its now pinkpower.
    Anonymous
    23rd Nov 2018
    2:47pm
    Haha pinkpower - love it

    Meant to say disaster in my OP - typo
    Swinging voter
    23rd Nov 2018
    2:48pm
    It's now pink batteries. The more often batteries are re-charged, the shorter their lifespan. Next they will be complaining about clean disposal of batteries.I've heard so many experts in that industry warn off batteries, "total waste of money".
    Anonymous
    23rd Nov 2018
    2:51pm
    So it IS pink-batt-eries all over again

    Maybe Bill and his mates have already invested in a few battery supply companies
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:07pm
    Trolls playing tag.

    First, WHY did your leader not compare the battery policy to the solar panels policy?
    Answer: because the rooftop solar has been super successful.

    Second, you crow about $200 million for batteries whilst tax cuts for the wealthy will cost us $18 BILLION...yes BILLION per year. Every year. Not just once.

    You and you kind make me sick. Perverse people posting lies and deceit to con those who are not aware of the facts.
    Swinging voter
    23rd Nov 2018
    2:59pm
    Does anyone ever hear the climate zealots advocating for global de-population? The answer for them has to be simple: less people = less energy consumption. But oh no, they will not address the reason for over-demand on the earth's resources i.e. too many people. Global population 1918 -1.9 billion. One hundred years later, 2018 - global population 7.5 billion. Considering it took thousands of years to reach 1.9 billion, and a mere 100 years to get to 7.5 billion, wouldn't you think someone aside from Dick Smith would be ringing the over-population alarm bells?
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:09pm
    Yes I agree. Capping or reducing population is off the list for discussion but it is one of the main drivers of the degradation of the planet and the extinction of multiple species.
    You have my support on this and you may want to put that question to your local member and to Shorten.

    23rd Nov 2018
    3:04pm
    Just read that Shortens energy plan will add $20 billion to our national debt
    And give us nothing back except costly energy and remedial action down the track
    Julian
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:10pm
    ANYTHING he promises will add billions to our national debt
    Old Geezer
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:55pm
    I just hope they tear up his credit card before it's too late.
    Julian
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:09pm
    I think not. If he gets in, he'll interpret that as a mandate to spend more borrowed money.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:11pm
    Geez....it went from $200 million above to now $20 billion. Now that would be real inflation.
    You are a joke. Yes I know....we have to have coal don't we?
    maelcolium
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:19pm
    You guys are stuck in the past with your nonsense about debt and credit cards. The debt is now larger then when Abbot and his cronies were talking about the debt and deficit disaster and the sky hasn't fallen in - why is that? Government debt in AUD is just window dressing - they issue the currency and are not constrained like a household. The budgeting rules are self imposed relics of the gold standard and fixed exchange rates. Those conditions don't exist now as the currency is fiat and exchange rates float.

    Keep up with the program so you don't make fools of yourselves.
    Julian
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:19pm
    I see you have systematically replied to every post on this site with disdain. In almost every case where you disagree, you follow with name calling. Grow up!

    People have opinions. It's an entitlement. Your behaviour is consistent with the leftist movement. Shut down opinions not consistent with your's. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean you have to resort to dirty tactics. I hope you are removed from this blog.

    Please do not reply. I'm not interested.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:46pm
    Julian - Dirty tactics? Not I. I'll debate facts, not party BS or propaganda run by the usual culprits. I find it amusing that when others do not accept your propaganda as fact they get called 'leftists'. I'd rather be left leaning that a coal owned troll with no empathy for anybody other than the wealthy.

    maelcolium - I suspect you have no idea of what you are saying. Sure the gold standard is gone FOR THE TIME BEING but any government which prints money without reservation will suffer the consequences. It happened to German in the 1930s. Its happening to Argentina and other countries right now.
    We WILL be back on a gold standard and the fact that China, Russia, India and Turkey are buying every ounce they can get their hands on should be telling intelligent punters where this is heading. God help anyone who has cash in the bank when the run starts!
    maelcolium
    23rd Nov 2018
    10:11pm
    Ah excuse me Mick, but I studied postgraduate macroeconomics at Adelaide Uni so I do know what I'm talking about. I also publicly comment on macroeconomic matters regularly so my knowledge is based on accepted modern monetary principles.

    The R Mark was based on the gold standard of which Germany had none after WW1 so their currency rapidly devalued during the 1930's global depression. The Argentinian situation was caused when the Government borrowed in foreign currency. They defaulted following a coup and the debt was purchased at a sharp discount by a global financier who pulled strings with his Wall Street buddies to threaten their future borrowings. Again, they had made the mistake of not treating their currency as sovereign fiat.
    Neither of these two events has anything to do with the issuing of currency in our open economy in Australia because our Government debt is in AUD and very little is in foreign currency. As the Government is the monopoly provider of AUD it is able to pay any debt in it's own currency - it cannot go broke unlike Germany or Argentina.

    Please provide evidence that the countries you mention are hoarding gold. I know you can't because 58% of global gold is held by western central banks. The rest is traded on the bullion exchange very quickly among private traders on he bullion exchange along with other precious metals. Neither India nor Turkey have the means to hoard extensive gold reserves because their economies function on reserve currencies. India is functioning under WTO rules as a developing nation and must not hold bullion to support the currency. Who knows what China and Russia are really doing, but I can assure you that no advanced economy will accept to trade in global currencies based on the gold standard.

    The gold standard was abandoned prior to WW2. The replacement was the Bretton Woods agreement fixing exchange rates to reserve currencies which was abandoned in 1972 when all advanced economies, including Australia, floated their currencies. Currently the de facto world reserve currency is the USD which is not backed by gold. Both China and Russia hold huge reserves of USD via treasury transactions which is what Trump is using to force both countries into free trade and stop opportunistically fixing their exchange rates. Neither would be interested in gold as a standard except for hedging their trades, so are not hoarding at all, but protecting their currencies on the open market with reverse trades.

    This "run" you are talking about is a figment of your imagination based on an ignorant perspective of world economics. So either put up the evidence or shut up with your bleating about matters of which you have zero knowledge.
    TREBOR
    25th Nov 2018
    9:38pm
    Any link on that or is this just hot air?

    Ah, yes - the economic theorists who would have us all in clover if it were not for their inability to encompass reality...
    Knight Templar
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:25pm
    The batteries will cost between $10,000 and $22,000 each ... on line price estimates of Tesla and other home batteries show that a battery for a 4 bedroom home would cost more than $22,000. Batteries will need to be replaced every 8 to 10 years - probably at an even higher inflated price. I'm sure most retirees have a lazy $10,000-$22,000 under the mattress in order to purchase these pink batteries. There will also be ongoing electricity bills which will need to be met.

    The production of batteries involves toxic materials and high CO2 emissions - furthermore, disposal of tens of thousands of used batteries is going to be a major environmental problem. New batteries need to be charged. What power source will be used for this purpose?

    The Australasian Fire Authorities Council is also concerned about the increased risk of blazes caused by more consumers rushing to adopt lithium-ion battery technology.

    Another batty idea from BS BS (the initials say it all).
    Anonymous
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:39pm
    Agree with all of your facts Knight
    Especially what his initials stand for
    Old Geezer
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:59pm
    One must use an awful lot of electricity to save enough to pay for those batteries in 8 to 10 years. My bills are not near $1000 a year so unless I get a big credit from somewhere there is no economic reason for me to have a pink battery.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:13pm
    The next post from the Liberal Party.

    Correction: batteries start at $3,000. If you get a Tesla (which has a 13.5 kWh storage) you'll pay maybe $13,000. I am not aware of any $22,000 batteries and you likely made it up. Why would that not surprise me.
    Knight Templar
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:42pm
    Mick ... On line price for Tesla is $22,000 for four bedroom house. Check for yourself.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:47pm
    When I looked 12 months ago it was $13,000.
    Knight Templar
    23rd Nov 2018
    5:28pm
    Mick, why don't you address the issues I raise: eg the need for battery replacement after 8-10 years; the cost involved in purchasing a new battery; toxic materials used in battery production, environmental disposal issues; what electricity sources are to be used to charge these batteries.

    I might add another concern and that relates to solar panels. Will these be required (more expense) to maintain the battery charge etc.

    Whether the batteries cost $13,000 or $22,000 is a mere digression. Both prices are clearly unaffordable for most retirees.

    The whole exercise is a political scam and it has nothing to do with party politics as you wish to infer. I would be equally against this nonsense if it was proposed by an LNP government.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    6:13pm
    Not a problem.
    Batteries have a life of 10 years and up to 20 years if you do not completely drain them. Lets work on 10 years so that you get the best bang for your buck.
    Disposal? Recycled! Some work to do there.
    Batteries only useful if matched with solar panels. No brainer.

    "Political scam"? Yeah Old Man. Do tell. next comes the usual LNP coal BS.
    You WANT the technology to be a scam because ou WANT coal. I hear you coming!

    I'll repeat the facts for the mentally challenged:

    1. solar is here to stay.
    2. rooftop solar is paying its way. That's why Australians are installing them. The rebate I get every bill 9 months of the year is testament to that.
    3. batteries will sound the death of coal. Your political party will have to source election funds elsewhere. Maybe sell out the pubic in a new way not yet thought of.
    Knight Templar
    23rd Nov 2018
    6:49pm
    You talk utter nonsense. You don't know what I think and I'm not interested in your left wing Marxist stupidity.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    8:28pm
    You post is right wing nonsense. Embarrassing.
    Think what you like but unless you are here as a cash for comment troll do some reading before you post BS. That is not meant as an insult but rather as an indictment of the coal industry which pushes that sort of propaganda.
    Here's something to keep you awake at night: CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL and RENEWABLE ENERGY IS COMING TO GET US ALL.

    23rd Nov 2018
    3:39pm
    For those who remember the way things used to be, power stations were government owned as were the coal mines feeding them. People never complained about power bills as they were usually accepted as being the right cost for the service provided. As at 2000, 80% of energy was supplied by coal fired power stations. Since 2010 there have been 12 coal fired power stations closed and none built or refurbished. It's a simple matter of supply and demand, less power providers increases the cost.

    What we need is a base load to support renewable energy and coal fired power stations are the cheapest way to provide that given that Australian law forbids nuclear power plants. Maybe in the future, there will be batteries made available which will have a longer working life and are cheaper to produce but until then we will need a base load. I believe that this solution is above politics and is practical.

    The main problem is the push for people to do "something" about climate change and there are those who believe that man can change Nature. I don't subscribe to that idea. I believe that there is climate change and that belief is supported by scientific studies done over generations that have proved that the Earth has gone through ice ages and warming times, all well before man had nothing but fire; no machines, no nuclear weapons, no aerosols, no plastics and no fossil fuels.

    What really concerns me is the Greens proposal that by the year 2030, anyone using electricity that is coal fired should be prosecuted. By 2030, all coal mines are to be closed, no coal to be won from the ground and no exports of coal or any other minerals. One would presume that they will also prosecute those utilities such as hospitals which have a diesel fired generator started when blackouts occur to maintain power for life saving machines. All of this for what? Australia produces 1.2% of pollution compared to the total world pollution and we will be left with high unemployment and very few exports to what end. To appease Gaia? I though we had left Stone Age superstitions behind.

    I don't care which side promises whatever, I want to see a sensible approach to making electricity affordable once more. I believe that it is imperative that we do what we know to be workable and not rely on those ideas which are both costly and unreliable as they have yet to be fully tested under working conditions. Australia needs to be led by those who can ignore the vocal minority and just get on with governing for all the people, not the 3% with loud voices.
    Old Geezer
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:53pm
    I agree we are being led by way too many vocal minorities. We need to be sensible not foolish.
    Downtrain
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:13pm
    Check out the massive global warming which occurred between ad600 and ad1200, Temperate crops were grown on Greenland, significant parts of Northern Europe were flooded. The north sea normally rough was like a mill pond, how do you think the Norse people sailed to North America in a long boat.Couldn't do that today ,it would be swamped.
    I think there is a significant natural component to global warming and we can make very little difference to it!
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    6:17pm
    Read my response below.
    Mandy
    23rd Nov 2018
    8:13pm
    Have you noticed that those trying to make us feel guilty always talk about our per ca-pita carbon footprint not total carbon dioxide emitted? They even demonize our farmers for the methane their animals burp but ignore the fact that farmers’ agricultural produce that is exported came from carbon dioxide in the atmosphere even the animal products converted from vegetable products. No credit is given for the fact that we probably take more carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere per year than we put in.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    8:25pm
    Have a look at the graph half way down the page:

    https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

    Notice anything unusual since about 1950? Something which has not happened in half a million years?
    I saw on the news tonight the figure has been extended to a million years.
    Those talking about farting cows are most likely the government sponsored trolls trying to debunk the science. All they ever do is try to throw spanners into the works to confuse people. No confusion with the CO2 graph above and despite the coal industry trying to deny NASA studies are fake we all know better who is fake.
    mr.auspicious
    25th Nov 2018
    8:12am
    The " dry " economic facts are that if we take a level playing field, the cost of generating
    electricity per kilowatt hour is cheaper utilising fossil fuels as opposed to renewables.

    The economic conundrum is that the power grid throughout most of the country is
    obsolescent and if generating capacity is to be maintained or expanded to meet the
    needs of a growing economy, new ( state of art ) power stations are urgently needed.

    This is " big ticket " infrastructure, which requires a commitment to significant
    capital outlay and it is at this point politicians typically roll over and fall back on
    science which in this context is nothing more than a sequence of tenuous forecasts
    and venal prophecies.

    The band aid solution is to roll out the more expensive power generating options -
    and rely on wind or solar and battery storage. But wait - the sun doesn't always
    shine on your subsidised solar panels and the wind may not be blowing when the
    power grid is subject to peak load. Nevertheless state governments continue to
    squander millions, subsidising the delusion of " clean " energy generation.
    The impact has been overall higher electricity prices per kilowatt hour, and the
    inability of grid supply to match demand. As more outdated power stations are
    decommissioned, the prospect of power shortages will become a reality.

    Welcome to the brave new low emission world where affordable power is set to
    become another casualty of ideological gestures and screwball politicking.
    To avoid this scenario, a large measure of economic reality is required - a process
    of hard nosed evaluation based on cost benefit realities. This is complex process
    requiring specialist expertise which our politicians have seemingly ignored so far.
    This has not occurred elsewhere, particularly in the Asian region, where future power
    generating infrastructure will comprise numerous high tech power stations fuelled by
    low emission fossil fuel ( coal ) imported from Australia.
    sparky
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:45pm
    Battery systems will only last about 10 years and then households will have to fork out huge money to renew them and in most cases the original batteries will not have paid for themselves.
    Politicians have their heads in the sand or they do not understand all alternative power sources have a short life span.
    Reports from the USA state that there are 14,000 wind towers that have lapsed into disuse and cannot be removed as the cost is prohibitive and the removal would create more pollution than it is worth.
    sparky.
    Old Geezer
    23rd Nov 2018
    3:54pm
    Winds towers never pay for themselves either.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:22pm
    Softly softly OM. I have read enough of your recent posts to see you are likely trying to claw back some credibility.
    Man can change a lot of things although it is population which mankind needs to cap otherwise all will be lost in time. Because corporations control government they want an ever expanding population (growing markets!) and this is why the topic is political and media taboo.
    FYI The Greens are vocal but they do not have the numbers to govern. If they enter into government with Labor they will hopefully realise that Labor is not going to accept the gun at the head it did under Rudd and Gillard. We'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

    sparky look at the graph at the following link:

    https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

    Then tell me about what has not change in 600,000 years other than from about 1950 onwards. Game over!
    Jim
    23rd Nov 2018
    5:47pm
    I agree, but my concern would be more to do with the disposal of the dead batteries once they can no longer be recharged, the cost will naturally come down when everyone has a battery in their back yard, has anyone looked at the safety aspect, currently I have heard that if you have a fire, the firies won’t attempt to put it out, any one know if it’s true?
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    6:18pm
    With the cost of lithium its unlikely batteries will not be recycled Jim.
    Jim
    23rd Nov 2018
    7:11pm
    Fair enough Mick, I know very little about batteries, I think I was more comfortable with my Tilley lamp and gas lighting, I can still remember being a little frightened when we first got electricity, I am getting used to it now, LOL.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    9:02pm
    You look like a Spring chicken Jim. Aren't we all....chuckle
    Downtrain
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:06pm
    Having been involved in power distribution I don't think this is achievable. Firstly we are so short of power in Victoria ans south Australia we will have many powercuts in extreme weather. Yes Renewables are the answer but we cannot achieve a good baseload power at this stage. Who is going to pay? Higher taxes or add it on to the Power bill.
    I haven't seen any pigs flying past my window yet!
    Old Geezer
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:19pm
    The only thing Labor want to achieve is power in a different form so it can stuff things up for the rest of us and generations to come.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    4:24pm
    Gee Downtrain SA did not have a blackout last summer despite a long hot summer. That blows your assertion out of the water.
    Where is your evidence?
    TREBOR
    25th Nov 2018
    9:43pm
    Well - if you want reliable power someone will have to pay for it, but personally I would rather that they don't pay twice through having to pay for power supply execs, board members and shareholders (none of which would or should be there at all).....

    It's obvious where the added cost of power supply comes from.... privatisation.

    Where is Shorten's master plan there? Will there be a public utility in the market, without shareholders etc to feed, which will reduce costs and offer lower prices?

    Shorten is as short-sighted (pardon the near-pun) as the dopes in the LNP... and neither Labrador (the feminist's tame dog) nor the Lying Nitwits Party have any answers for this nation... but only for themselves and their chosen ones.
    Jim
    23rd Nov 2018
    5:40pm
    It’s a no from me, it reminds me a bit of the NBN that was promised, fibre to every home, the total cost was going to be 33 billion, it was never achievable, the detractors will blame the government, because of the way they changed how it was going to be done, I will be the first to point out that the system we ended up with is rubbish, was the Labor model achievable no it wasn’t, the government has spent more than double the ammount and still it’s not finished. I know many will refuse to see the truth, it there you go. So will a huge network of panels and batteries solve our energy crises, absolutely it will, is either party able to deliver on this, a resounding no. Currently I understand that we only have one manufacturer of panels, the majority of panels are made in China, they are made under license from Germany, the opposition are claiming that this plan will create jobs, not for us it won’t, our only contribution will be to install them, I don’t know much about the batteries, I think Eon Musk is the largest manufacturer. I would love to see it all come to fruition. Caveat emptor
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    6:22pm
    You forget that Turnbull butchered the original model. The only talking point is whether or not Labor could have delivered at the price they quoted. The cost of rejigging exchanges with old technology has blown costs out. Now Turnbull is gone and nobody talks about what he has done. Same deal as the "debt" he heard nonstop. Blown out to $600 billion under the current lot but never mentioned. Funny that.
    You need to consider the alternatives Jim. Hopefully Shorten is not all talk. The current are just that and they lie like a pregnant nun in confession. Pick your poison.
    Jim
    23rd Nov 2018
    7:06pm
    Actually I did make reference to the changes that were made, so I hadn’t forgot, where we differ in opinion is under Labor could they have brought a better system in for the budgeted price, without having the benefit of looking into the future it’s difficult to say, but in my opinion it was totally unachievable, pressure was put on the government to bring something in which was a mistake, there were other options, I think the pressure got to them, they still did bring a system in that works, for some like myself. The much mooted 600 billion in debt is a bit of a furphy, it’s made up of forward estimates and promises that will be dropped the minute we have a change in government, so we will have to wait to see what happens, the cost of servicing whatever the debt is will have to be sorted by the new government, and as always you will hear the excuses from the incoming government, we didn’t know how much the debt was, does that sound familiar, it’s happened over the last 50 odd years.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    9:01pm
    Fibre - google Dunedin in New Zealand. Smaller town but the results are off the scale and cost was reasonable. Some computer design companies have relocated to Dunedin because Australia simply does not cut it.

    Debt - I can but quote the figures tendered Jim. You may be right but Labor's $148 billion would have the same components so the comparison would appear to be realistic. At any rate the "unsustainable debt" has not been mentioned since Hockey took the juicy posting in America but that is a story in itself.

    The question I continue to ask is WHAT HAS THE LNP GOVERNMENTS ACHIEVED IN THE PAST 6 YEARS? The only I can see is NIL other than repeated attacks on anybody who opposes it, which is what dictatorships do to quash any dissent.
    Mandy
    23rd Nov 2018
    6:11pm
    Australia cannot solve the climate change problem. If we cut our carbon footprint to zero it will make just that much difference: zero. All we can do is beggar ourselves trying. We must find the cheapest way to produce power which at the moment looks like coal, gas and some renewables in the mix. The northern hemisphere is responsible for virtually all the increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. If it is the problem only they can fix it. We have always punched above our weight but in this case it will be like whistling into the wind or some expression involving thunder.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    6:24pm
    That's the con we hear from our LNP government so that we keep burning coal for its mates.
    Somebody has to start. Why not the sunniest place on the planet and why not get to a place where we have a trade advantage rather than be the last to move? That'd be different.
    GeorgeM
    23rd Nov 2018
    9:10pm
    Quite correct, Mandy. Until China, India and USA seriously take responsibility to reduce their emissions through defined targets, we are just a bunch of fools trying to shoot ourselves in the foot! Use of Coal & Gas, which we are lucky to have in plenty and is also great for our economy, MUST continue, including new power stations until the above named 3 major polluter countries start acting.

    Forget it, MICK, you are trying too hard for Labor who are a bunch of no-hopers and have failed us repeatedly. Until & unless they have a serious revolution within their party - not likely, and even their alternative, Albo, is piss-weak to do any serious change to their BS policies.
    Charlie
    23rd Nov 2018
    6:18pm
    Any cheaper power from renewables will be turned into profit by energy providers and you wont see which way it went.

    Because the government doesn't seem to know what energy comes in and what goes out. This is North Queensland with lots of sun, so solar energy should be prospering?

    Instead there is one energy provider that has a monopoly on the top half of the state and prices are as high as anywhere.

    Power production facilities should go back to state management, there may come a time when they have to be protected from terrorism by the military.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    6:25pm
    Get yourself rooftop solar. Put on a battery. Then get a rebate every bill other than winter. You win.
    We have done the above and never looked back and will put on a battery when Shorten gets in.
    Charlie
    24th Nov 2018
    12:19am
    I rent, I am flat out putting up an umbrella.
    Chockys
    23rd Nov 2018
    6:25pm
    how are people going to afford solar plus batteries. I looked into it and it was going to cost 30000 dollars. It would cost double that once interest goes onto the loan. Are the government going to subsidize most of the cost, what a joke. Pre election false statements to get the votes from struggling Australians
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2018
    8:20pm
    Uh uh. No way Hose!

    5 kW system - $4,000
    Small battery - $3,000
    So where are your figures coming from? Wonderland or our coal owned government? They are fake.
    Adrianus
    24th Nov 2018
    8:09am
    Labor vows to fix our power problem LOL, now that's hilarious. LOL.
    Are they saying similar to how they fixed it last time in government?
    Power prices doubled under Labor and blackouts increased.
    MICK reckons Labor have learned their lesson just like their outsourcing of immigration to the people smugglers. YEAH RIGHT!!
    NEVER, EVER TRUST LABOR, THEY WILL LET YOU DOWN.
    GeorgeM
    24th Nov 2018
    3:57pm
    Also, NEVER EVER TRUST LIBERALS as THEY WILL LET YOU DOWN TOO.

    Remember just prior to the 2013 election, Tony Abbott promised no cuts to education, health, or the ABC and SBS, and no changes to pensions. He broke EVERY ONE OF those promises, and many more once he got elected. Of particular relevance to part-pensioners, he destroyed their retirement incomes with his bastardly changes, without grandfathering, to the Assets test from Jan 2017, causing up to $14,000 reduction in annual pension incomes. These were supported and implemented by Hockey (the designer & failed Treasurer), Turnbull & Morrison.

    Also, power prices went further UP, and UP, and UP...under the Liberals.
    Buggsie
    24th Nov 2018
    8:12am
    Fascinating reading since I posted my previous comment but facts are few and far between. Here are the facts on the energy debate.
    1. The current government is unable to formulate an energy policy because the few members who are rational, intelligent thinkers are overwhelmed by the many who can't think past coal and the money they get from it. 2. Climate change is real, the science is compelling, the physical effects are all around us and carbon emissions are the major causal factor behind it. 3. Privatisation of the energy market in good old Aus is a reality and will not be reversed by any government of any persuasion. 4. For sound economic reasons no energy company in Aus is willing to invest in the building of a new coal fired power station (read the news!) 5. Electricity generated from renewable sources is now much cheaper than would be possible from a new coal fired plant (even if anyone was stupid enough to build one!) Read comments on this from AEMO. 6. Battery technology is constantly improving - look at Sonnen and its huge ongoing investment in an Aus plant ( better batteries than Tesla by far as well) 7. Re my own energy consumption, already reduced by over 60% by rooftop solar - if I installed a battery for about $12,000 less rebate, I probably would be in a position where the energy company I deal with would owe me money each quarter! What a thought! Cheers, Buggsie
    Adrianus
    26th Nov 2018
    7:54am
    Buggsie, one person's facts are another's treasure.
    Here's the most important fact about coal...

    At current usage rates there is less than 200 years of coal on this planet. Some measure it at 150 years supply.

    Human kind is in a race to transition to alternative methods of producing power, methods which will not harm our planet, or endanger its occupants.

    Our biggest danger is our acceptance of ideological bullshit, designed to create urgency which will which in turn does nothing but cloud the issue.
    As coal gets scarce it becomes more expensive so why are we shipping 75% of our coal to other countries now? Why aren't we using our coal to strengthen our economy and production capabilities which will help us with a smoother and more effective transition.

    150 years is not a long time, so we need to keep our heads.
    Adrianus
    25th Nov 2018
    4:30pm
    If a part Aged Pensioner buys a battery worth $12,000 to take advantage of a Labor $2,000 cash giveaway, do they get an increase in their OAP?
    TREBOR
    25th Nov 2018
    9:30pm
    Even if renewables take over total supply I can't see prices going down under the current 'business model' - same as with petrol...... and without a central control over power supply, as opposed to the current dupiclation and extra mouth feeding organised chaos - nothing will change ecept the pocket-books of the 'executives' and the shareholders (who should never have been there in the first place).

    The current 'business model' of 'private enterprise' has proven itself a costly failure, and my one regret about its inevitable demise is that far too much of the money of the long-suffering end user - the public who used to own the whole shebang - will have gone into the pockets of cronies and other thieves.
    TREBOR
    25th Nov 2018
    10:17pm
    .. and also for the Seven Dwarves here (pick your own name) - I've already outlined the incredible process for selling off a public utility or signing up for a contract that a government body could do as well and for less (such as that banished cross-Malbun roadway )- the 'seller' "government" signs up, of its own accord, to a 'Dead Man's Hand' "contract" in these 'ventures'.... meaning that in the event of failure (sic) or of resumption by the government for non-performance etc - the 'buyer' will be compensated to the extent of the 'opportunity loss' of the contract.

    That is why that banished cross Malbun road was such a costly venture to the Labor government there - the Liberals, in office and signing the contract, ensured that in the event of cancellation BILLIONS of YOUR dollars would be paid to the 'buyer/contractor' for NOT doing the work....

    This either ties in any succeeding government to that one-sided contract... or costs that government a mass of money into the pockets of the cronies who bought into the venture, without a sod being turned. Just another way of transferring billions of taxpayer dollars into private hands.... and many here and elsewhere lambast the Labor government in Victoria for that cost, when the true responsibility lies with those who forged (sic) the contract.

    This is common across EVERY 'privatisation' venture....

    And none dare call it treason.... or theft...

    And that is the way politics is played here - benefit your mates while ensuring that you get a knife into the back of your 'opposition' in the event they try to undo the benefit to your mates.

    No wonder we need a new party to sweep it clean.
    Adrianus
    26th Nov 2018
    8:03am
    TREBOR, I agree with your analysis of Australia's political problem. Too much politics and not enough love of the country and its people. Do you really think its about giving your mates a job? Doesn't the PS have a robust tendering process?
    I think its more about politics and who's name goes on the project. More of a legacy thing. The NDIS is a classic example. Two PM's who hated each other (Gillard and Rudd) and hence we got a name change.