16th May 2017

Why rent bidding apps will make the rental market even more unaffordable

for lease sign

Garrick Small, CQUniversity Australia

Renters are already the weak party at the negotiating table because they cannot ignore their need for a place to live. But a new series of apps that pit renter against renter will only further tip the balance of power in favour of landlords, making it even harder to get a house. The Conversation

The fierce competition in the rental market often results in renters paying more than is necessary. Over 150,000 tenants pay more than 50 per cent of their incomes for housing.

These apps may seem like they give renters more power – they are marketed using words like “fairness” and “transparency”, but they also note that landlords are missing out on “millions and millions”.



Renting is a zero-sum game. Every dollar that a landlord gains is a dollar out of the tenant’s pocket. And in a market already tilted in favour of landlords, these apps could further push up rents.

To address the problem of renting affordability we need technologies that promote more cooperation between renters, rather than competition.

The apps

There are several different rent bidding apps, and they all work in different ways.

Live Offer asks prospective tenants to fill out forms and these are then ranked for the landlord to choose. The prospective tenants can see where they are in the rankings, in real time.

Rentberry is more of a real-time auction site. Prospective tenants submit bids, can see what the current highest bid is and how many bids there have been.

With Rentwolf, prospective tenants set up extensive profiles, as they would with AirBnB, and then apply for properties through the marketplace.

What is the right price?

Real estate is worth what people are prepared to pay for it. But tenants will always be the weak party at the negotiating table.

At least as far back as David Ricardo in 1817, economists have theorised that landlords take what is left over once other costs are deducted from the tenant’s income. In other words, rent is as much as tenants are able to pay.

Even before that, Adam Smith recognised that all real estate is a monopoly for landowners. This is because the supply of land is strictly limited, giving excessive negotiating power to whoever owns it.

But these apps overwhelmingly rely on auctions, which can itself be a problem due to what is called the “winner’s curse”.

Studies have shown that so long as there are at least two motivated bidders, the winning bid tends to either equal the value, or be one bid above it. In other words, the winning bidder in an auction will often overpay and will “suffer” for having won.

In the case of renters, this means paying excessive rents throughout the lease. Even worse, as more people bid similarly, the ruinous rents become accepted as normal. They become the market rent.

This same phenomenon has been shown in everything from jars of coins to oil-drilling rights and, yes, real estate.

Some research has further shown that in an auction the second-highest bid could be the “rational price”.

My own controlled experiments have shown that people are easily encouraged by necessity to bid excessively in auctions. This is despite full knowledge of the ruinous consequences.

This is because people have only a limited capacity to vary their needs. We all need to live somewhere, and our culture limits the options. If the option is sharing with relatives or accepting a lower standard of living due to high rents, then our sense of independence will often prompt our willingness to tighten our belts.

These rental apps will play into these stresses and uncertainties, making it more likely people will overbid in the auctions. This is why these rental apps are likely to result in higher rents.

How technology can reduce rents

Some time ago researchers suggested that renters might be able to reduce rents by banding together.

Working together, renters would be able to create the equivalent of there being only one buyer in the market – a monopsony. A monopsony works like a monopoly, but for buyers rather than sellers. For real estate rents, if land owners enjoy a natural monopoly-like advantage, then tenants have to behave like a monopsony to negate the power imbalance.

The current crop of rental apps do not address this imbalance. They only inform bidders as to what other, similarly stressed people, are bidding. It stresses them to bid higher.

Already, we are seeing the power of Facebook to build communities around renting. There are groups that help people find flatmates, for example. If the internet is to tackle the problem of renting affordability, then we need to extend this community, for renters to act in unison on rent.

Without a service that seeks to unite renters, rather than have them compete, housing affordability will only get worse. Rent bidding apps will increase landlord revenues and do so at the expense of tenants.

Garrick Small, Associate Professor, CQUniversity Australia

This article was originally published on The Conversation. Read the original article.





COMMENTS

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Symo
16th May 2017
11:19am
Well you could always downsize!

https://www.domain.com.au/news/sydney-rental-market-looking-grim-tent-for-rent-for-130-a-week-20170510-gw1l74/
jackie
16th May 2017
12:37pm
They could at least be providing a luxury tent for that price.
MICK
16th May 2017
1:19pm
Yeah Scott.
Rae
16th May 2017
4:58pm
The only thing good about the US in 2009 was the food races just inside the Walmart and the extra security everywhere to guard people's stuff and stop looting.
Rosret
16th May 2017
11:19am
...and not only does the winner end up paying more in the auction they set the standard for a new higher price which becomes the base of the next auction.
That is what is happening with the "dutch auction" real estate buying market. It is SO wrong.
Old Geezer
16th May 2017
12:06pm
It is great for the seller!
FrankC
16th May 2017
12:54pm
I don't now what a 'dutch auction' is, but auctioning for a rental is the lowest form. Auctions are what have created the exorbitant house prices there are now,, and that is what has prompted greed in the real estate market. We never had these stupid prices and non justifiable percent increases before auctions became rife. Unfortunately for many young people, that will never change and revert back to normalcy.
MICK
16th May 2017
1:24pm
It is not the auction Frank. It is human behaviour.
You hys might want to look up the Dutch Poppy Bubble in past centuries and what happened when the game ended.
Houses prices are probably not over-inflated as it costs to buy the land and then it costs to build the house, carpet it and landscape the garden & build driveways. Do your sums!
It's easy to blame somebody else when you feel locked out but harder to do the things to get on.
Old Geezer
16th May 2017
3:35pm
Rent is just another variable in the mix of what property owners select their tenants upon.
niemakawa
16th May 2017
3:39pm
@OG and finding good tenants who wont trash the place is another very important consideration. Despite all the "laws" which favour tenants a landlord can be very selective in choosing an appropriate tenant.
Old Geezer
16th May 2017
4:07pm
Also that rental tribunal is so much in favour of the tenants in that they can be proved wrong but the landlord still loses. Another reason for my selling out of rentals.

I used go around and have a look at where any perspective tenant lived as part of my selection criteria. The outside can be enough just cross them off the list.

Facebook is another good reference. I had a tenant ask if they could get a pet and I said no. A week later I found out via Facebook they had got a cat anyway.
niemakawa
16th May 2017
4:22pm
@OG very wise.
MICK
16th May 2017
5:24pm
Thanks for the thumbs up Geezer. There may be more to you than I have seen.
Old Man
16th May 2017
11:22am
Again, this is tied to house prices which are a major problem in Sydney and Melbourne. A lot can be said about this but the base fact is that the demand is greater than the supply. The government has proposed to pay local councils to pass approvals for housing quicker and therefore make more housing available and this must be a good start.

When people scream about negative gearing and capital gains tax, they are talking in the main about those people who are supplying the rental market. If more than one house is owned it's a safe bet that it is income producing which in most cases is income from rental.
MICK
16th May 2017
11:25am
"Excessive rents"? The way to solve that is to INCREASE SUPPLY. That way landlords cut to the bone in order to getter their places rented or get out and find better investments. You have to blame government of all persuasion over the past 30 years for their bad policies because houses are built if the cost/return ratio is fair.
As for both renters and buyers "paying too much" that is human nature and the 'wants' overruling common sense and basic financial management. No point demonising landlords for that.
Hasbeen
16th May 2017
1:25pm
Mick when an investor can get $100 a week from a bank for every $100,000 they have invested, why do you think they would buy a $700.000 house, & rent it out for less than S700 a week net. That's NET not gross. If it weren't for capital gains, & some tax relief, no one would be stupid enough to own a rental house. There is no way I would do it.

It is doubtful that anyone would own a rental property in a capital today, if it weren't for the attraction/security of bricks & mortar, it's a lousy investment as it is. Make the whole thing any less profitable than today, & just watch the rental properties disappear.
MICK
16th May 2017
1:42pm
You can still get up to a 5% return on rental property compared to 3% invested in an interest bearing deposit in the bank. And then you get plus capital gain and hope that we do not have another GFC or property bubble collapse.
I cannot understand some posts are attacking rent as "greed". The risks are significant albeit less than the share market.
Veritas
16th May 2017
2:16pm
The whole property market is 'greed' Mick, driven in the main by real estate agents, auctions and developers. I have seen it happen first hand in my career as journalist in rural NSW. In the town of Wellington NSW, a new prison was announced - great, jobs for locals. Developers (so called) moved in. House prices went from $30K -$40K to $60K - $80K in the course of a week. This was some years ago, but the point is valid. Those same houses are now worth about $120K - not a fortune, but it locked out the locals and these 'developers' did nothing with the properties they bought except to rent them out for huge rents - winners agents and developers. An artificial bubble that caused a lot of people a lot of money and a lot of tears.
Old Geezer
16th May 2017
3:37pm
Yes I actually owned a property in Wellington at the time and sold it some years later for a lot more than I paid for it. Good investment.
Rae
16th May 2017
5:03pm
Wellington has the advantage of that wonderful water supply. It will eventually come back into favour. It was once a thriving and beautiful major town.
MICK
16th May 2017
5:31pm
I see where you are coming from Veritas but not the fault of landlords. Government and local councils seem to be in bed with developers and I have long stated there should be a public inquiry into donations to get to the bottom of this. The only thing the public ever gets is deafening silence.
In terms of what happened in Wellington I might have thought the new jail might have brought in a whole pile of people and associated industries and that these people were simply outbidding locals. Why did people not just buy a block of dirt and build new houses? That was the traditional way to handle this and I did the same where we currently live. Picked the block of dirt which was horribly undervalued at the time, projected forward 20 years and got made it happen.
$120,000 for a house in Wellington. Where can I get one? Bloody cheap. As for the locals, yeah country towns are a tough place to make a quid.
Old Geezer
16th May 2017
9:55pm
Wellington is now the ice capital of Australia so no wonder house prices are only $129,000. Have you seen the prison? I have only driven past it and it is certainly well lit at night.
niemakawa
16th May 2017
10:17pm
Cut out the avocados on toast and lattes !!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/16/millionaire-tells-millennials-stop-buying-avocado-toast-want/
Veritas
16th May 2017
11:37am
Let's call a spade a spade shall we? Today's rental housing market - like many other things - is based on greed. The more these mini capitalists have, the more they want and the more they feel empowered over the less fortunate - it's slave trade mentality on an economic platform. You will never rid society of GREED!
Old Geezer
16th May 2017
12:09pm
Agree. It's a bubble that will burst and when it does we are likely to go into a recession. I have sold all my properties as I can't see much more upside.
jackie
16th May 2017
12:29pm
Veritas....I agree. They will hang themselves eventually. Negative gearing has got to go and tax the profits heavily.
MICK
16th May 2017
1:07pm
We have rental property to pay ourselves a pension so we are not a burden on taxpayers.
I do not think it is fair to play the 'greed' card as landlords get the most rent they can and tenants pay the least they can and often leave rental properties in a degraded state. In times when there is a shortage of properties rents go up. A win for landlords. In times when there is an oversupply rents go down. A win for renters. Blame the government for the taxes and obstacles it puts in front of people who want to build houses, not landlords.
Last thing is Veritas have a look at the cost of buying a rental property. High. If there were no return on an investment then investors would go elsewhere. There is a happy medium but it is not the fault of landlords. Would you rent out your million dollar property for $200 pw if you owned one? Me neither. Cheers.
Veritas
16th May 2017
1:29pm
I don't think Mick that many of the renters alluded to in these reports would be looking for million dollar houses, albeit the average Sydney 3 bedder is almost at that price. However, having said this, I do no agree with price gouging at the expense of the less wealthy. Public housing is the only answer to the crisis, with the private market available for those who are willing to pay the higher rents. Call it a two tier system if you like, but in reality we have at least a two or three tier society.
MICK
16th May 2017
1:46pm
Price gouging? I thought that was only in Woolies and Coles.
Respectfully have a look at what an investor who borrows to buy an investment property actually pays for the property and what his outgoings are every year let alone damage by tenants and wear and tear.
It's easy to be angry at the non affordability of rents but that's why people who complain need to either do the sums or get into this market. My wife and I own a rental property but are considering selling as the returns are pretty average at best and the stress is not worth the effort or the return. Renters never see that side of the business.
Rae
16th May 2017
2:10pm
There is no price gouging in the rental market. The returns now based on costs and prices are dismal. Capital Gains are only made at sale.

Even homeowners are up for ridiculous holding costs when you add up the rates, levies, insurance, water and maintenance. With rentals you may have strata levies, sinking funds and land taxes as well.

Throw in the bank interest if you geared and you're way underwater.

Rents are based on supply/demand and wages. A landlord can charge what they like but they may not get a tenant at that price.
Old Geezer
16th May 2017
3:39pm
I sold all my properties because I could make more money having the money invested elsewhere. No problems with tenants, landlords, neighbours or anyone else to deal with either.
MICK
16th May 2017
5:35pm
Correct Rae. Some people only look at this through their own eyes. If a landlord buys a house for $800,000 then one needs to work out what is left for the investor after all costs. Not a lot so don't know how you it price gouging. If people are not happy with the rents they do something about it: co-rent and save a deposit or live in a tent. That might sound cruel but landlords are mostly average people, not millionaires.
Geezer: still waiting for you to expand on your wonderful non property investments. I can't see anywhere where you can make decent profits these days.
Old Geezer
16th May 2017
10:04pm
Mick I'm doing a little better than the pros. I got some results sent to me today by people who manage portfolios and they were bragging about how good they are etc. Put it this way they would have to do better for me to even consider them.

I did make a few dollars out of funerals last week. Maybe more people are dying than normal.
Boof
16th May 2017
11:43am
One way only to help renters. ABOLISH NEGATIVE GEARING. It has past it's use by date. Well & truly. Neg. Gearers' not only want renters to buy their new property for them but also want a bonus in dollars. They instruct their Realty Mgrs to Raise Rent at every opportunity.
Old Geezer
16th May 2017
12:11pm
Smart people positively gear not negatively gear so it's only the one's that are fully extended that will suffer and the renters as demand will outstrip supply pushing up rental prices even further.
MICK
16th May 2017
1:13pm
You need to do the figures Geezer and then look up the words 'capital gain'. We do not own any negatively geared property but if I was still working and in a high tax bracket I would.
If you killed off negative gearing (just property or all investments?) then investors would sell and renters would be buying tents and then blaming the right culprit: GOVERNMENTS who caused the problem by importing people we do not need but need to be housed.
The belief that you can sell public housing, import millions of new citizens whilst not providing housing for them only leads to what we have, a supply shortage and high rents.
Rae
16th May 2017
2:16pm
The 50% discount on Capital Gains was a very bad idea in my opinion it has distorted markets here badly.
Old Geezer
16th May 2017
4:02pm
Actually Rae if you own a property for a long time 50% discount on capital gains is not near as good as if it was adjusted for the CPI.
Rae
16th May 2017
5:06pm
I agree OG. I preferred the old system. It encouraged long term investment and dissuaded flippers and speculators.
MICK
16th May 2017
5:40pm
Geezer is 100% correct Rae. The old system was fair as paying tax on a gain you have not made is a joke. That sort of thing discourages people from ever selling a rental property because they effectively lock in a loss.
Adjusting the increase in value of a property for inflation should replace the current unfair capital gains tax. This was killed off because greedy government in the past figured they could get more money by doing this. They have.
Who said property investing gives a good return. After all expenses and CGT it is pretty poor.
Veritas
16th May 2017
11:51am
As I said Boof - GREED
Veritas
16th May 2017
11:51am
As I said Boof - GREED
Rae
16th May 2017
2:25pm
Why is buying a property to rent out and pay for your retirement any more greedy than expecting the taxpayers to pay for it?

In fact you have to forgo gratification to do this. Those that spend all their money each fortnight don't have to indulge in disciplined spending.

A couple on a pension get a higher income than the landlord getting $430 a week rent and paying out $140 of it in costs.

That is $15080 income as opposed to the OAP $32000 plus discounts.

It's a return of 3% or less. I wouldn't call that greedy.
niemakawa
16th May 2017
2:28pm
@Rae no it is jealousy by others who are unwilling to make an effort in life. They prefer to be at the teat where they are fed constantly without any obligation on their part.
MICK
16th May 2017
5:44pm
Good post Rae. You are essentially correct but maybe Veritas is alluding to those at the very top who get into 'unfair' territory. Most investors are just average folk who plan for their retirement.
It takes people who have done the real hard yards to understand that a pension is paid by 'somebody'. It is not free money. Those who create their own retirement nest eggs without rorting the system should be valued citizens rather than the targets they have become with the current government doing its best to come after easy targets for money because it cannot manage the national economy.
Rae
17th May 2017
7:40am
Exactly MICK.
john
16th May 2017
12:43pm
Rents are down where I am, but no tenants???????? So what is this all about?
Veritas
16th May 2017
12:56pm
Are you Rural/Regional John? I am. It is much cheaper living, and the standard of living is very good. OK, you don't have all of the advantages of the big city, but enough to make life worth living
MICK
16th May 2017
1:14pm
Not greed!
Rae
16th May 2017
2:27pm
Yes rents in Brisbane have been falling for a couple of years. Perth is a disaster. Melbourne and Sydney will be next.
niemakawa
16th May 2017
2:47pm
@Rae therefore rents are becoming more "affordable" .
Rae
16th May 2017
3:09pm
Possibly not . I think the rents are falling because of unemployment and underemployment and rising cost of living expenses.

I doubt we'll get out of the coming wage cuts in July without a lot of pain.

Rents are going down because people just can't afford to pay any more.
Hasbeen
16th May 2017
3:33pm
Veritas, would you please tell me just what are the advantages of living in a big city. I can't for the life of me imagine even one.
MICK
16th May 2017
5:47pm
Watching the waves crash in, the moods of the ocean and the cool sea breezes when the rest of NSW is cooking is the short answer. Sadly I miss a half acre of fertile soil to indulge in my garden and food growing addiction. Can't have it all I guess.
KSS
16th May 2017
1:03pm
This is not a new phenomenon. This was happening at least 25 years ago the only difference was that it was 'blind' i.e. you didn't know the value of the competing offers. At the time I refused to be drawn into this Dutch auction run by and large by real estate agents.

Like house sale auctions, if the buyer wasn't willing to play the games the situation would soon stop. It is also worth remembering that if investors' costs increase so will rents and it has nothing to do with negative gearing since those savings are not passed to the tenant. Few investors are without a mortgage on the property and that has to be paid for. The higher the mortgage the higher the rent.

As it is people panic and do stupid things then complain about it after the event. Ultimately we all have a bucket of money that we choose how to spend. Rent is part of that decision making.
MICK
16th May 2017
1:18pm
You are missing two things KSS:

1. record never before seen interest rates. That means low low annual interest repayments.
2. that inner need for a place of your own and people willing to bid up prices to get it.
3. a huge number of new citizens all wanting the same thing with governments doing nothing to get new construction going other than talk.

People may behave contrary to their own interests but that is what herd behaviour is all about. If it were not so we would never elect a coalition government because people would realise they were being herded by the media to do that which is nearly always bad for them. Likewise for home ownership with a shortage of houses.
KSS
16th May 2017
1:48pm
A place of your own is NOT a rental. Unfortunately renters are not in a 'place of their own' (even though most treat it as if it were). Most will either have to renew their lease or move on after 6 months to a year and either way may have to pay more rent.

Likewise investors are also not buying a 'place of their own' either. They are buying an investment not a place to live in. A good investment is an unemotional acquisition - a business proposition - nothing more.

Low interest rates do not help renters. The investor may have more money to spend and it is that money that is repaid by the renter not the investor. Any tax advantage the investor may amass is not passed on to the renter.
Rae
16th May 2017
2:39pm
That is incorrect KSS. Rents have nothing to do with property prices or mortgage rates. That is the buyers risk. Rents are based on vacancy rates and wages. As wages fall so do rents. People lose income and move home or join a share house. A landlord can ask what he likes but he won't get it if it isn't within the market range or the house is exceptional in some way and the tenant a high income earner or receiving corporate sponsorship for accommodation.

The investor would have to be paying some of the interest or it wouldn't be negatively geared.

Negative gearing into overheated and expensive property markets is very very dangerous and best left to the big guys.

KSS I suggest you read a few books about property investing. For some strange reason people believe you can just charge whatever rent you need to pay off a property. This is far from true.
KSS
16th May 2017
3:39pm
Rae you can keep your suggestions to yourself. Yes the investor has to be paying some themselves but that could just be $50 a week. The renter would be paying the rest. I know of numerous cases where properties were sold then rented out at far higher rents than the previous rental for a tenant less than 6 months old. It has everything to do with the investor recouping/lowering their outlays as well as 'market rates'. I suggest wages play very little part in the setting of the rent. If it really did, people would not be in the position of paying 50% of their income on rent and the perhaps rent would be capped at 30% of wages. It isn't.

The issue is that people panic as I said originally and do stupid things like getting into Dutch auctions (or overpaying for a property at a home auction) thereby sending rents even higher.
niemakawa
16th May 2017
3:41pm
@Rae, yes you are correct. Supply and demand are the guiding factors.
MICK
16th May 2017
5:50pm
The cost of a rental property and the rental return often influences whether an investor will buy or not. If the return is too bad why would investors buy unless there were other things like subdivisibility or an area about to rerate?
Rae
16th May 2017
6:43pm
I apologise KSS I meant no disrespect as I value your opinions. It does concern me that people think they can control rents as much capital can be lost on property markets. In desirable locations, providing incomes allow rents can be very high. Easily making 50% as you say of a tenants income. This is unsustainable over the long term for the tenant. In these areas, to provide for essential but lower paid workers I firmly believe in Public Housing.

I have a working knowledge of rental property and have lost great slabs of capital borrowing too much at the wrong time.

Rents can be handy as part of an income strategy but at these current prices I wouldn't be buying.

The rents on my units have fallen over the past two years, even with new carpets and paint. Incomes are falling and rents are tracking them down right now. This is in a city CBD precinct.

People betting on an auction site can also cause prices to track downwards. You'd use it in places like Roselle, Newtown and Bondi where people are willing to spend and have the incomes to do so.

In other places it could very well lower rents.

I agree with you that people do panic and act with the heart and not the head. They panic on the way up that the won't get in and they panic on the way down that they won't get out.

The landlord holds all the risk though and the gain or loss in the longer term.
MICK
16th May 2017
8:27pm
Saw an interesting story last week. There is some housing in Norway where the owner can only sell the property for cost + CPI increase. That ends any capital gain.
Old Geezer
16th May 2017
10:05pm
Mick and that ends people investing in housing in Australia too.
Rae
16th May 2017
1:46pm
Yes everyone competing to live in Sydney. Preferably within 15kms of the CBD. Wouldn't have anything to do with the competition would it?
MICK
16th May 2017
1:49pm
You left off a zero there Rae.
I put the problem down to importing people by the millions and not building housing for them. Not fair to now come after landlords as is being done by a couple of posters. We did not create this problem and most landlords are not making a lot out of rentals other than paying their bills.
niemakawa
16th May 2017
2:15pm
@Mick, your point is often overlooked by many who turn a blind eye to the mass immigration that is occurring.
MICK
16th May 2017
5:52pm
I always find it interesting how the 'media', for want of another word, all but ignores the POPULATION issue and refuses to link it with many of the issues causing problems in our country. Maybe they are worried about 18C. Can't tell the truth perhaps. Where's Donald Trump I wonder......
niemakawa
16th May 2017
6:03pm
@MICK it all has to do with Globalisation and the Australian MSM is part of that group. Maybe slightly off topic but last month alone 42,500 economic migrants from Africa were escorted to Italy by NGO's and Government navies. Yet the Globalist Governments are doing nothing to stop it. So it is quite evident that it is intentional.Australia's Government and the main political parties, the MSM are Globalists in outlook, so of course they ignore the problem of housing. They have other intentions. Expect many more "migrants" to hit our shores in the near future.
Rae
16th May 2017
6:54pm
The costs were never factored in MICK or provided for. There is a NSW planning document "Cities For The Twenty First Century" that planned this Metropolis from Newcastle to Woollongong.

The housing estates were planned but not the infrastructure.
The housing estates were built but not the infrastructure.

Some infrastructure such as water almost ran out in the last drought in a lot of areas as the population exploded to fill all those houses. That will be the test. The next big drought.

The cost of each new immigrant is roughly $250 000 in infrastructure costs. Yes they will certainly pay for it as time goes by but the initial cost is weighing on the budget. I can't understand why the media doesn't see it either.
MICK
16th May 2017
8:08pm
The media is run by vested interests so it does not report some things and glosses over others, which are then never heard from again. The Panama tax havens where the rich cheat taxpayers in their countries are one such issue. Reported on, never acted upon and now you never hear another word.
I am grateful I put in a huge tank when we built. No water problems for us unless it stops raining altogether. This is an issue I have been following for a long time and I am surprised that we did not run out of water in the last drought in Sydney. Next time we will.
niemakawa
16th May 2017
2:17pm
Capitalism at its best. Everyone has a chance and opportunity to prosper.
Old Geezer
16th May 2017
3:40pm
Sounds like too many just let those chances go by and blame capitalism for it.
Trees
16th May 2017
3:51pm
you two at it again, talking in circles & amusing each other :)
niemakawa
16th May 2017
3:54pm
@Trees keep to your tree hugging serious matters are being discussed here and it seems you do not have the aptitude to make appropriate comments.
Trees
16th May 2017
4:05pm
oh my goodness of course the old men are speaking, what was I thinking. Tree hugging?? where does that come from? Serious matters, hmmm all you do whinge & then tell everyone how wealthy, clever & handsome (I made the handsome part up) in case they have forgotten from the last time you told them. Kind of hard to take you seriously I'm afraid when you blow your own little horn all the time.
Old Geezer
16th May 2017
4:09pm
Looks like you lot are being mushrooms again.
niemakawa
16th May 2017
4:20pm
@Trees, I am very handsome, you got that part right, but I do not like to brag about my youthful good looks. I have no resentment towards those that are wealthy, I maybe comfortable but far from wealthy. Everyone must repeat must take responsibility for their own actions instead of complaining about those that take considerable risks in attaining their wealth. I have no sympathy for renters, that is their choice, they just have to accept that they may have made the wrong one(s). The blame game never seems to cease when it comes to the so-called "poor/disadvantaged". Their predicament is of their own volition so they must deal with their problems. I do not care about them. I care about myself over and above anyone else, and you would be surprised that most people do also. I pay my taxes so that is all I am prepared to do to help out.
Trees
16th May 2017
4:23pm
Yeah I know, I wasn't going to bother reading your same old same old rantings but I just couldn't help myself :) I'm probably more of a truffle Old Geezer than a mushroom - my sh#t is kind of amusing, to me anyway
Trees
16th May 2017
4:32pm
Very humanitarian of you niemakawa. I didn't actually say that you were handsome but you can have that one :) Yes agree take responsibility for your choices & some people make the wrong choices but work hard & nothing quite works out for them & they end up being in a really bad position later in life, don't you have even the tiniest bit of empathy for them?
niemakawa
16th May 2017
4:41pm
No to your last question. I would not allow myself to be like them. As I said I have paid my taxes and that is all I am prepared to do. You can keep the empathy, it is meaningless to normal people.
Trees
16th May 2017
5:43pm
No its is not normal to have no empathy. You are doing what you accuse big business & government of doing - only worrying about themselves.
niemakawa
16th May 2017
5:55pm
@Trees, but tree huggers and snowflakes are not normal. That is my point.
MICK
16th May 2017
8:16pm
Back to your initial statement niemakawa: whilst I agree on the one hand I cannot but want to help those who are too weak to help themselves. I am not talking about those who spend having a great time and then blame everybody for not having a house. These people have always amongst us. I am talking about those who do not understand how to get to th eend of the road mainly because they have impaired reasoning ability. Plenty of folk like that and they are not bad people.
I take "capitalism" with a grain of salt. I have been called a leftist on this website but that does not define me because I have managed to accumulate enough to get by but I have empathy for people who work hard but cannot make it. Not everybody lives in a coffee shop and spends their money on themselves.
It must be Friday (not).....no turps been consumed so forgive the rant. You get the gist.
niemakawa
16th May 2017
8:21pm
@MICK Those of whom you speak deserve some help as you quite rightly state.
niemakawa
16th May 2017
3:42pm
Pain-killers will be needed.
Trees
16th May 2017
3:57pm
what you talking about niemakawa? :)
niemakawa
16th May 2017
4:03pm
I made a very subtle statement , try to figure it out.
Trees
16th May 2017
4:07pm
you want a lump of lead???
Cowboy Jim
16th May 2017
4:34pm
A reason for all the money going into housing is the fact that there are no taxes or asset
inclusion for the pension - maybe one might have to consider some inheritance taxes as all
this property is meant for tax free transfers assets to the next generations.
Same goes for the down-sizing of houses will be a no-go; people I know want to give the
family home to the sons and daughters and getting the full pension till they pass.
niemakawa
16th May 2017
4:44pm
That is normal. I certainly do not want my assets turned over to the scroungers in our society. I will find a way to ensure MY assets go to the right people. Means testing of pensions should be abolished IMO.
MICK
16th May 2017
8:19pm
And what decent parent does not want to leave their children and (especially) their grandchildren something? How about looking at what other first world countries do before you push such BS. I mean you are starting to sound like heemsjerk writing the sort of stuff the current government loves. Next you'll be crowing about "lefties".
Old Geezer
16th May 2017
10:06pm
My kids want me to spend it all before I leave this mortal world.
Charlie
16th May 2017
5:21pm
Leave the bidding to the people who can afford to buy and sell homes.

Bidding for the basics in life is the quickest way to create an under class, who live in shanty towns on the outskirts of town. That's what our cities will look like if renting is done by computer apps.

A banana republic idea
niemakawa
16th May 2017
5:49pm
Paul Keating comes to mind.
MICK
16th May 2017
8:20pm
Now there is a man who might be a better PM than any of the current crop. At the very least he would put the decrepit lot in government at present in their place.
floss
16th May 2017
6:17pm
O.G you are the greatest wish you were running this country ,you are out of this world.
MICK
16th May 2017
8:22pm
At least OG is not running the pink batts, school halls or debt BS. Give him a bit of rope floss.....
Old Geezer
16th May 2017
9:51pm
I have no intention of running the country my ego is not big enough for such a small price.
niemakawa
16th May 2017
9:59pm
@OG stay put you are doing a great job on YLC. An opportunity to educate many who frequent this site.
floss
17th May 2017
10:31am
O.G.i am really amazed how smart you are ,how does so much knowledge come out of such a small brain.
Scotty
18th May 2017
10:58am
I live in Perth and it is a renter's paradise. Rents have dropped dramatically over the last 2 years and it is very hard to rent a vacant property.
BigVal
18th May 2017
4:37pm
What you have to do to buy your first home is save for a deposit and today they earn more on average than our generation (70's)did
Difference being we went without entertainment, holidays etc in order to save for that first home deposit. They want it given to them. And are being given thousands of taxpayer dollars and still moan.
Plus the elephant in the room which is always being avoided is of course IMMIGRATION. Rudd brought in in 2 years over 300,000 a year and now Turnbull is doing same over last couple of years again 300,000 and not a lot less in between years.
Until we slow down the demand by stopping all immigration until such time as we have jobs crying out to be filled,vacant houses low rents and prices due to lack of demand, and in surplus because we dont have a huge drain on the Budget of those who cant get a job or dont want to work as nicely off with over 3 even 9 or more kids in public housing with car pay TV etc. That will only come about if the government of the day has the balls to do it.


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