19th Oct 2017

Analysis reveals that most Australians will never fully retire

Analysis reveals that most Australians will never fully retire
Leon Della Bosca

Analysis of retirement in Australia, the US and the UK has revealed that only 23 per cent of Australians expect to retire fully, either due to lifestyle choices or financial pressure.

This is compared to 32 per cent of Americans and around 27 per cent of people in the UK.

According to the report: “While some of these respondents may be choosing to continue working as a lifestyle choice, many are likely feeling financial pressure to continue working, and do not foresee a time when they will be secure enough to retire.

“Even more striking perhaps are the small percentages of those who do plan to retire who expect to retire fully as opposed to gradually; only a quarter of all respondents indicate plans to retire fully.”



The Retirement Readiness survey, conducted by American Academy of Actuaries, the UK’s Institute and Faculty of Actuaries and Actuaries Institute Australia, took a snapshot of retirement intentions in all three countries.

Its findings include:

  • 70 per cent of Australians plan to take some form of retirement, compared to 75 per cent in the UK and 60 per cent on the US
  • of those Australians who will retire, 46 per cent expect to have a comfortable or prosperous retirement, compared to 47 per cent of Americans and only 36 per cent in the UK
  • 50 per cent of Australian male retirees expect a ‘flourishing or comfortable lifestyle in retirement’ compared to just 34 per cent of Australian women
  • the gender gap is highest in Australia at 22 per cent, while the US is 15 per cent and the UK is seven per cent
  • overall, 85 per cent of higher income earners would retire, compared to 76 per cent of middle-income earners and 57 per cent of low-income earners

 

Perhaps most disturbing is how little people are aware of how much they’ll need in retirement. In Australia, just 30 per cent of those surveyed knew how much they would need to live out their years, compared to 31 per cent in the US and 19 per cent in the UK.

YourLifeChoices Retirement Affordability Index September 2017 shows that a staggering 81 per cent of Australians believe they will run out of money before they die.

These numbers reveal that many retirees will in some way need to rely on government assistance in retirement.

“A great number of people expect to rely, in part or in whole, on some form of government payment during their retirement. 58 per cent of respondents expect to live a poor or modest lifestyle during retirement. We are immersed in an era of diminished expectations compared to the period even two decades previous,” said Australian Actuaries Institute President Jenny Lyon.

The report shows that, despite the differences between these three countries, retirement expectations are relatively similar. And although all three countries are working towards improving the retirement income system to accommodate a rapidly ageing population, progress to date “has been modest at best”.

What were/are your expectations in retirement? Do you think you’ll have enough to live out your years? Is the Government doing its part to help see you through? Were you aware that the gender gap was so high in Australia?

Related articles:
Retirement income concerns rise
Retirement haves and have-nots
Retirement system under threat





COMMENTS

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Nanna75
23rd Oct 2017
12:07pm
My husband died just over 2 years ago, leaving me with a $250000 mortgage and around $50000 in assets. The mortgage was interest only, and now the bank is asking me to pay the full amount. My husband didn't agree with wives working, so my only income is the pension. I have to sell my home and rent. My family and friends had no idea of his financial position and presumed I would be a merry widow. I will make a small profit on my home when it sells, and I will have to be very aware of how I use my remaining funds. I have 2 sons who will hopefully help me out when things get tough, but they have their wife's and children to keep. I have at least got something, but find it very difficult with all the hidden expenses. I've had to learn fast.
GrandmaKathleen22
23rd Oct 2017
12:13pm
What a predicament! Hope you get a good price for your home and then have at least a buffer for the future. All the best to you Nanna75.
Rosret
23rd Oct 2017
1:38pm
I am so sorry to hear your plight. It was the way of men in the older generation. However it looks as though you should have been running the show.
While you may not be able to change your situation teach your boys to be better men and if you can't then make sure their wives take out full insurance.
Hopefully this housing boom will have helped your position.
AutumnOz
23rd Oct 2017
1:38pm
I am very sorry to hear of your problem Nanna75.
You need to consult an accountant, or the solicitor who dealt with probate for your husbands will, there must be some way this problem can be sorted out for you without you having to sell your home and join the rental merry go round.
Very best wishes to you and I also hope you get an excellent price for you house if you do have to sell it.
Tib
23rd Oct 2017
11:12pm
Rosret.
"While you may not be able to change your situation teach your boys to be better men and if you can't then make sure their wives take out full insurance."

You have got to be kidding me. How dare he die without leaving his wife a Merry Widow. I can't believe how greedy and self entitled you women are. It might surprise you to know that men aren't just born in this world to make your lives more comfortable. Every young man should be forced to read the comments on these sites before they marry most of them wouldn't bother after reading them.
Rainey
24th Oct 2017
8:33am
Women should be educated to understand that many men are grossly irresponsible and untrustworthy, and that they need to know what is happening with the family finances and keep a nest-egg of their own to fall back on if hubby lets them down.

Yes, Rosret, every mother should teach their boys to be better men and their daughters to be financially savvy.
Tib
24th Oct 2017
9:20am
Rainey it's ok young men are now being taught that they shouldn't get married that women just sponge off you then take you to court and rob you for all they can get. That's why more and more men don't get married. As they say marriage is buying a house for someone you hate.
So women can look after their own finance and buy their own shoes. Good luck with that.Lol
Rainey
24th Oct 2017
9:31am
What a pathetic bitter sexist creature you are, Tib. I feel sorry for you. Obviously you have met some unpleasant women. But equally there are a lot of horrid men in the world, and a vast number of good, hard-working, frugal women.

Most of the men I know would not own a home in retirement if not for their wives' hard work and careful money management, and they freely admit it. Most are happy to admit that they would have nothing if they hadn't married a good woman. A divorced male friend freely states that he has nothing because he didn't stick it out with his partner and treat her right.

Lots of women are choosing not to marry these days, also, because they've seen how selfish, lazy, drunken men treat their wives, and how many are unfaithful. But there are still a lot of very happy, fulfilled married folk who appreciate the qualities of their partner - male or female.

Have some respect, Tib. Your comments are vile and disgusting, and you are totally destroying your credibility with your sexist and deeply offensive BS.
Tib
24th Oct 2017
10:16am
Rainey you shouldn't be offended by the fact that young men don't see marriage as a viable option. It's the future. Women will just have to get used to blaming themselves for their own bad finances.
Rainey
24th Oct 2017
4:06pm
Tib, you are so full of **it! Women, on the whole, manage their finances far better than men. I struggle to identify a family in my circle in which the man handles any money. They willingly hand it over to the wife and just take a little pocket money because they are very aware that the wife will make it stretch much further than they can.
Old Geezer
25th Oct 2017
9:27pm
Women can stretch money so much that it breaks and there goes the budget out the window. My partner and I agreed long ago that we manage our own money as no one looks after your money better than you do. Even after many decades each of us really doesn't know and has no need to know each others wealth as it's simply not important to either of us.
Rainey
26th Oct 2017
2:49pm
''No one looks after your money better than you do''??? What a load of nonsense, OG!!! Goodness, millions are incapable of looking after their own money. Lots of people rely on their partner to look after the family finances because they recognize that their partner is better qualified.

You seem to think everyone in the world is - or should be - just like you or someone you know. It's a diverse world filled with individuals. And thank goodness we are all different. As my grandmother used to say: ''Thank goodness for individuality, because the world couldn't handle two of me, and it most CERTAINLY couldn't cope with two of thee!"
Old Geezer
26th Oct 2017
2:52pm
Rainey yes the world does have to cope with two of me as I have an identical twin brother!
Rainey
26th Oct 2017
4:03pm
No wonder the world is in a mess. Heaven help us all! One nasty bigot with no empathy is quite enough. But then, one can be an identical twin and be more educated and informed and have a nicer personality. We can live in hope.
JAID
29th Oct 2017
6:30pm
Rainey, I am inclined to agree to a limited degree with Tib or at least see his point as non-sexist. I cannot see why one would live with someone if they were not happy to give and leave them everything they have.

In my own case I am happy to work until I drop. There is little doubt that will be long before my partner. They unfortunately will not be left on easy-street but they have now and will have whatever I can give which may make their life satisfactory. We have shared household chores pretty much equally, shared child care and each put as much as we earnt into the commonwealth. I think we each work because we enjoy what we do. One of us earns about 10 times that of the other but this is a commonwealth, we do what we can and own whatever we have now and had before partnership jointly. It seems to me that marriage or partnership may be many things but that there is little point in entering it unless you are prepared to see it that way.

If,on my passing, my partner needs to sell the house to maintain satisfactory income, that is entirely their prerogative. It would be a function of both our economic performances; no "fault" should attach and I at least admit no singular responsibility (even where ideal future circumstances my be desired.)

We have moved a long way in the last half century. Males and females may have differing predilictions and capabilities but at the current level of technological advancement the quantum of any of those differences is insubstatial in the face of the variety each gender exhibits. In this way approximation of equality across the range of skills and tasks should be accepted. Likewise should the advantage and responsibility of relationship be seen as a matter for equality.

That does not mean that one does not figure more strongly in one area or another; it doesn't mean that contributions in any area are necessarily equal and it doesn't even mean that value in any area is equal but it does mean that parties to a relationship respect each other's essential and general equality. With that comes equality of opportunity.
Nanna75
23rd Oct 2017
12:26pm
Thanks for your input Grandma Kathleen22. Very kind.
Cautious
23rd Oct 2017
12:29pm
Just checking because I am weary of statustics, are the 50% of men expecting a happy retirement living with the 34% of women?
Rosret
23rd Oct 2017
1:46pm
Why Cautious?
Women of today's retiring age often didn't work and if they had a divorce the superannuation use not be included in the split. If their partner died the superannuation was dropped to 3/8 of the original payment.
If you look at the statistical totals of super fund contributions women's funds are quantumly less than their male counterpart.
There was a time where contributing to a superannuation fund was not compulsory and wives often let their husbands take on that responsibility.
Not only have they earned less during their working life they have had less opportunity to save and invest as excess money grows wealth exponentially.
Rosret
23rd Oct 2017
1:48pm
Also women usually outlive men so even if they are on a pension the single pension IS poverty.
MICK
23rd Oct 2017
3:53pm
Rosret: women outlive men and generally are left with the estate, whatever that is.
I always thought that having the skill to plan well was a curse but maybe I have this wrong when I read some of the heart ache stories. Life's a bugger alright!
Tib
23rd Oct 2017
5:31pm
Mick managing money is a very useful skill. It's amazing how many women are broke only a couple years after their husbands die.
Rainey
24th Oct 2017
9:38am
Equally surprising how many men are broke very soon after their wives die, Tib. It's nothing to do with gender, and only a sad bigot would rant as you do.
Old Geezer
25th Oct 2017
9:29pm
I though women all though if there was lots of cheques left in the cheque book then they had heaps to spend.
Rainey
26th Oct 2017
4:05pm
You don't THINK, OG. The stupidity of your comments is mind boggling.
Old Man
23rd Oct 2017
12:30pm
This is a very subjective discussion which relies heavily on the opinion of those who wish to impose a lifestyle on to others and claim that the figures presented are the norm. All of us are individuals with different needs and different expectations. In our case (and I don't claim that our case is in any way like any other) our financial adviser had us fill out a budget questionnaire which was checked against actual expenditure one year later. From that we were able to work towards the figure we needed to fund our retirement and allow us to live in the manner we wished to live.

I have seen figures quoted that show anyone retiring needs $1.3M to live comfortably (they don't define "comfortably") and on the other end of the spectrum, I have seen figures which show that $280,000 will also allow a comfortable retirement. Sure, there will be stories of hardship where people will be unable to retire because of existing debts but I believe that these tales are isolated cases, not the norm.
Kaye Fallick
23rd Oct 2017
12:39pm
Hi Old Man - think your comments are spot on - the claim that $1.3m is needed for a so called 'comfortable' retirement is plain silly - and a massive deterrent for those who will never have this kind of nest egg. that's why we run the Retirement Affordability Index - so there is a realistic measure of what the different 'tribes' spend in retirement and how people manage on full or part Age Pensions or private income. Benchmarking real numbers helps all of us work out how to cover the bills, we believe. warmest
Kaye
MICK
23rd Oct 2017
3:56pm
Not sure how you live comfortably on $1.3 million at 2% pa interest with your capital being eaten away by inflation year on year.
$280,000? Whoever thinks you can live on that is nuts.
Tib
23rd Oct 2017
5:11pm
Mick if you're getting 2% pa interest , you need financial advice.
Rainey
23rd Oct 2017
5:41pm
Agree, Tib, but if you are getting much more than that, your capital is at risk. There is no such thing as a ''secure retirement'' for most of today's retirees. Unless you are very wealthy, you have cause to worry about the future.
Tib
23rd Oct 2017
6:00pm
I alway balance my investments between high medium and low risk investments depending on when I may need the money. The higher risk stuff I make sure I won't need it for a couple of years in case of a crash. What you invest in low risk you can guarantee a loss against inflation.
In Outer Orbit
23rd Oct 2017
7:35pm
Careful Tib; equities globally appear very over-priced currently on a price:earnings basis, so a readjustment downwards in value seems probable. Any investment with a risk by definition does not guarantee anything. 'Low risk' currently may prove a big loser in the short-medium term. Buyer beware.
Tib
23rd Oct 2017
8:33pm
There is always risk those who think they are safe never are.
KSS
23rd Oct 2017
12:55pm
Seems to me the opinions of those surveyed are pretty much in line in each of the three countries. Only between 21% and 24% of those surveyed were in the higher age group of 56-65 age . No prizes for deducing then that the closer to retirement you get the more reality sets in! Let's hope the young take note of the seemingly pessimistic answers of the older age group to do something about their own futures whilst they can.
KSS
23rd Oct 2017
1:07pm
Having said that and now looked at the questions asked, The questions were framed in such a way to catastrophize retirement i.e. sudden loss of job NOW, big drop in retirement income DURING retirement, living far longer than expected, chronic ill health (far more of a devastation in the USA than either UK or Australia with our respective health systems).......

No wonder the prospects came out poor!
A very one sided agenda me thinks!
Tib
23rd Oct 2017
6:30pm
Measuring people's expectations does not have any relationship to reality. When measuring men's expection against women's , men don't usually need much money whereas women never have enough so of course women don't like the idea of retirement. So women never have enough to retire , so men should just keep working. Usually that means they die working, but money problems are never bad enough for a women to get a job after they die.
Rainey
23rd Oct 2017
8:28pm
Goodness, Tib, what a sexist comment! And complete BS! Some men spend less than women and some men spend a lot more. Many women are very industrious, hard working, and frugal.

I can't think of a single woman in my extended family or neighbourhood who complains of not having enough, and all the women in my circle worked very hard for as long as their health permitted, then managed proudly on whatever investment returns and/or pension they received, mostly hanging on to their savings to leave to their offspring.

I can't think of a single man in my circle who died working. All my uncles and cousins retired. And all of their wives were supportive of them retiring and content to make do on whatever retirement income was available. No, they didn't return to work when their men died, but they continued doing extensive charity and community work as well as helping their children with housework and childcare.
Tib
23rd Oct 2017
8:39pm
Rainey Talk about complete BS. Frugal lol.
Tib
23rd Oct 2017
8:57pm
Rainey my comments are for those guys out there who's wives are telling them they don't have enough to retire. These guys should know their wives expect to be around forever and they don't expect their husbands to be around for much longer. Retire now guys while you have a few good years left. Don't listen to them they are looking after themselves.
Rainey
24th Oct 2017
9:24am
Tib, your comments are sexist and offensive, and complete rubbish. There are just as many irresponsible spendthrift men as there are women, and likely a lot more lazy drunks and gamblers among males. Far too many women have been left destitute by selfish, irresponsible men. Women telling men they don't have enough to retire are probably sensible women with enough intelligence to understand inflation and economic instability, while many men seem blissfully ignorant of anything other than the cost of grog.

Get a life, Tib, and stop your sexist BS. It's a diverse world, but when it comes to irresponsible spending, selfishness, greed, and failure to plan, both sexes are equally guilty. And I suspect that simply because of the maternal instinct, more women are frugal and self-sacrificing than men.
Tib
24th Oct 2017
9:47am
Some of the biggest drinkers are middle aged women.
Rainey
24th Oct 2017
9:50am
Only a very bitter and twisted bigot would make it all about gender, Tib. There are good and bad men and good and bad women. Sadly, you are among the bad, because you seem incapable of objective, respectful comment.
Tib
24th Oct 2017
10:00am
Rainey that's not disrespectful it's a fact some of the biggest drinkers are middle aged women you only mentioned men , I'm not surprised.
Rainey
24th Oct 2017
4:08pm
You made it about gender, Tib. I merely responded to correct your misrepresentation. Yes, both men and women drink, and gamble, and smoke, and waste money, and treat their spouses badly. BOTH MEN AND WOMEN. Neither more guilty than the other. Only a bitter and twisted bigot would make it all about gender.
Old Geezer
24th Oct 2017
11:21pm
Life is what you make it and has nothing at all to do with luck or lack of such luck. I know of many people who have been very fortunate but struggle today to live and others who have had nothing but bad luck but prosper today.
Rainey
25th Oct 2017
8:43am
Of course some thrive despite bad luck, OG, and some do not do well despite very good luck - but that is not evidence that luck plays no part in welfare. Quoting isolated examples proves nothing. Luck has everything to do with how successful people are. If you suffer trauma or crisis or lose everything in a natural disaster, it takes a great deal more effort, enterprise, and skill to do well than if you never experienced that bad luck. If you suffer ill-health or disability, it's very much harder to prosper. I never suggested that it's not possible to overcome bad luck, but to suggest that luck has nothing to do with success is just plain stupid. It's common sense that it's easier for the lucky and much harder for those who suffer misfortune.
Old Geezer
25th Oct 2017
9:36pm
OK I get it so you have a bit of bad luck so you give up and wallow in your own self pity.

To me it's actually easier to prosper with next to nothing than if you are already wealthy as you have nothing to lose so can take much bigger risks.

Although some would say I have had more than my share of bad luck I see it as opportunities instead. Remember the old saying to put a bit aside for a rainy day? That is what changes a disaster into a mere inconvenience instead. That's right misfortunes become mere inconveniences.
Rainey
26th Oct 2017
2:46pm
What an utterly STUPID comment, OG! I am not wallowing in self-pity. I am working and enjoying life, and have a nice nest egg of savings. Nobody is suggesting anyone give up because they have a ''bit of bad luck''. But only a bullying idiot suggests that luck has no role to play in success. And in some circumstances, no amount of effort can enable a person to overcome a substantial blow.

I said nothing about wealth. Wealth can make life easier, but wealth and luck are different. Many poor people are lucky. They are lucky to have good health, avoid natural disasters, avoid accident and family trauma, inherit natural intelligence or talent, have mentors who teach them intestinal fortitude and perseverance, have the opportunity to learn valuable skills or acquire useful qualifications, etc. etc. etc... all of these things, and many more, contribute to success.

I grew up in abject poverty, but I was lucky to have relatives who taught me how to rise above my station. I was lucky to have natural intelligence and innate skills. I was lucky to marry a partner who, despite suffering hideous childhood abuse and having a world of issues as a consequence of emotional deprivation, had an innate strength and determination and the ability to learn quickly and acquire skills easily. I was lucky, more recently, to meet someone who was prepared to employ me on good terms despite a complete lack of formal training and qualifications - someone who recognized and respected ability and diligence.

Putting aside for a rainy day is wise, but it isn't always possible for those who can't earn a wage adequate to meet basic needs. Those with certain disabilities will never have the capacity to put aside enough to cover future needs. And sometimes a crisis is so severe that those rainy day savings just aren't adequate. No amount of rainy-day savings from a minimal income could meet the $120,000 cost of specialist treatment for my special needs child, born when I was just 20 and had never even enjoyed an adult wage.

It's so easy to be an egotist and beat your chest and pretend superiority, OG. It's much harder to display human decency and deal with the realities of life in a very inequitable society. Frankly, I think those who can't acknowledge their superior good fortune and display empathy and respect for the strugglers who have copped heavy blows in life are contemptible and disgusting, and it's a great pity karma doesn't quickly and harshly deal with such vile individuals.
Old Geezer
29th Oct 2017
1:54pm
I put karma in the same category as luck. There is not such thing as karma either other than a figment of one's imagination. The only bad luck most people have is they fail to buy the winning ticket in a lottery.
KB
23rd Oct 2017
1:26pm
In the old days I believe that teachers could choose to take holidays or save the money.Now they are forced to take the leave instead during the school year. In any employment situation this should be choice if people want to save for their nest egg. My late father chose to save the money. The government should be doing more to encourage people to save a portion of their income for retirement.
Rosret
23rd Oct 2017
1:50pm
I wish it was an option KB. Long service leave during the school year is such a disruption to the children's education.
Crowcrag
23rd Oct 2017
1:52pm
I think you are referring to long service leave here, KB. I taught for 50 years and the option to have the money in lieu of the leave was never there. It may be at discussion level now, but it contradicts the whole principle of LSL, that is, a paid break like a sabbatical, from teaching. Many other countries do not have LSL.
MICK
23rd Oct 2017
4:03pm
Interesting reading about teaching...the easy job because teachers start at 9 am and go home at 3 pm?
Having had a stint in this dreadful profession I can attest to the huge pressure on teachers. The question I ask is who would not want to take time off in preference to cash? It appears hard enough to hold the ship together at the best of times.

As OM said above people make their life choices. Some choose wisely and some blow their opportunities and then cry foul. And then we have genY which wants to spend like sailors on shore leave and expect mum and dad to stump up their own money for a house and more lifestyle.
I feel sorry for people who do it tough because of adversity and circumstances, but many of us are not in that group.
Jim B
23rd Oct 2017
2:16pm
Anyone (who is medically ok) can live comfortably on just the full age pension "if" they have arranged their financial affairs correctly, and are prepared to "not" live in a big city.

I'm retired and on the full age pension. I get $894 a fortnight from the age pension, plus $129 a fortnight from my Super.

Here's how I live comfortably:

(1)I have 100% avoided ALL mortgage and ALL rent costs by moving to a country town and fully purchasing a tiny but nice $50,000 house on a big block of land. My regular expenses are $90 per week for food, $840 per year for council rates, $760 per year for water rates, $800 per year for electricity (just basic electricity, no fancy solar stuff), $4 per week for petrol, zero for car registration. I get pensioner concessions.

(2)I made 100% certain that at retirement time I had ZERO debts of any kind.

(3)I have $24,000 in my bank account, and $45,000 in my Superannuation pension fund.

(4)When I buy anything whatsoever I always get the cheapest prices possible.

(5)The town I live in has 2 big Woolies and Coles, internet, big hospital and all the services necessary for a comfortable life, and LOW LOW house prices. Port Pirie and Broken Hill are 2 examples of such towns.

(6)I NEVER fall for "advertising". I know all the con man tricks they use. I know exactly what I need and don't need, and no money grabbing advertiser ever gets the better of me.

I'm VERY comfortable, have ZERO financial stress, and on the age pension save around $8,000 into my bank account every year (because the pension provides me with more money than I actually need). It takes just an hour or 2 to get to big cities via plane.

But if ya want a million dollar house in a big city (my little $50,000 house would have cost me at least a million dollars if it was in Paddington in Sydney), a flash lifestyle, lots of possessions, flash car, heating/cooling on 24 hours a days, lots of expensive gadgets and gizmos ..... then I guess you'll be complaining about how financially hard life is when on the pension.

A happy, comfortable retirement is definitely possible in some country areas on the full age pension.
Aussie
23rd Oct 2017
3:21pm
Mate congrats .... You are very intelligent person and I salute you .... I am in the same boat as you except no Super .... so I am also looking for a country town to get the hell out of Sydney and leave my kids alone so they do not have to give me a room to live.
Great for you mate I will follow you Thanks for your comments very sensitive and very real no BS.

I am happy but concern about my kids and their future in Sydney ..... is very hard for them ....

What town are you ????
Aussie
23rd Oct 2017
3:23pm
My second option is Overseas and I am looking at Bali, Thailand, Mexico and South America countries ?????? just another choice.
MICK
23rd Oct 2017
4:05pm
Good work Jim. Well done.

Be careful Aussie. You may be just get what you didn't wish for. The third world is the third world and Aussies are likely seen as 'rich' pickens and fair game.
AutumnOz
23rd Oct 2017
4:09pm
Aussie, before you decide on overseas you need to check out their conditions for owning property, most Asian countries will only allow one of their own citizens to own property.
There are plenty of Australian towns with reasonably prices houses, check them all out via the internet, then if you find somewhere you like the look of go and have a look at the town.
Rae
24th Oct 2017
2:09pm
Be careful Aussie. Mexico and South America can be very tricky places to remain secure. Go stay a while wherever and check it out very carefully.


I'm a bit surprised that US and UK have such a small amount planning retirement as they have universal pensions with no tests or deeming rules. Perhaps it is the cost of medical that creates the problem.

I would think savers here would keep working as long as possible if they can't access the OAP.
David
24th Oct 2017
10:40pm
Well done Jim B on being able to live comfortably on the age pension. You have clearly demonstrated that it can be done if you are careful with what you spend and you make good lifestyle choices.
Chris B T
23rd Oct 2017
2:33pm
Responding on this Part of the Article.
“A great number of people expect to rely, in part or in whole, on some form of government payment during their retirement. 58 per cent of respondents expect to live a poor or modest lifestyle during retirement. We are immersed in an era of diminished expectations compared to the period even two decades previous,” said Australian Actuaries Institute President Jenny Lyon.
I would only accept that commentry after 2042 when the full ability of Superannuation can be fully available to all. Working or not, Shared income for stay at home mum/dad.
Until then it has not been available to All.
TREBOR
23rd Oct 2017
3:10pm
Not planning to retire fully... why ask?
MICK
23rd Oct 2017
3:49pm
It might be worth while comparing Australia's 'Turnbull' retirement system with that of the US and UK.
The last 2 coalition governments have effectively stolen retirement benefits from many retirees. My understanding of the American and English systems is that they are not means tested and when you reach retirement age you qualify.
Perhaps those with a better understand might want to clarify if this is the case or not.
Rainey
23rd Oct 2017
5:46pm
Correct, Mick, but the US aged pension is a miserable sum - far less generous than the Australian aged pension. That said, most Americans had retirement savings plans contributed to by employers, and as their pension is not means tested, the majority are far better off than Aussie retirees.
TinTin
23rd Oct 2017
3:51pm
Hey Old Man, I just have a question, where did you get your walking Felix, I like him.
Old Man
23rd Oct 2017
4:40pm
Go to here, Tin Tin, and download it. Cheers.

http://www.mytinyphone.com/wallpaper/495345/
Liverpool Anne
23rd Oct 2017
4:39pm
I have been retired since 2003. I have a pension and a very small amount of Super. During my working life I paid extra off the mortgage. When I retires I finished off the mortgage $5000 owing, worked out my year expenses and loaded that into my credit card. Divided the expense total by 26 (pension) and I put that amount away each fortnight, the super comes in monthly. I go to the library, free places, craft group, dog group (I have 2), go on a holiday each year. I didn't do any travelling when working, but I cruise or travel somewhere each year. My super goes towards that. When I can no long travel, due to bad help (heaven forgive) I can still happily live quite comfortably. I get the single pension, and my kids are financially okay. I am very active, happy and content with no stress, other than what I will have for dinner tonight!!!!
Tib
23rd Oct 2017
5:18pm
Yes women do worse in retirement. Many didn't work or didn't work many hours. In divorce they want the car house cash children but they don't think ahead to superannuation. Many don't handle money well because their husbands did it.
So they end up broke, especially after spending any cash they had " because they deserve it" , well guess what they deserve to be broke if they behave like that. Don't blame men, if you behave like children.
GrandmaKathleen22
23rd Oct 2017
7:43pm
Tib, you sound like you have had women troubles lol. All women are not the the same, just as all men are not the same. You cannot generalise about people. Everyone has their own story which is unique to them.
Tib
23rd Oct 2017
8:29pm
Actually Grandma I have no women troubles lol. I am very comfortably retired but this is my chance to laugh at their behaviour. If women have money troubles in retirement , let's just say I'm not at all surprised. Your right you can't generalise but from what I've seen women's behaviour is pretty consistent and the trouble they get into is to be expected.
Rainey
24th Oct 2017
8:30am
Obviously you don't know very many women and your sexist generalization is offensive, Tib. From what I've seen, women's behaviour is consistently responsible and self-sacrificing. There are exceptions to every rule, but all the women I know work hard, save, and put the welfare of their men, children and grandchildren ahead of their own.
Tib
24th Oct 2017
9:28am
I know lots of women. I find them greedy manipulative and shallow. As the ladies mentioned the other day when talking about husbands they wanted one with plenty of money and one foot in the grave.
Rainey
24th Oct 2017
9:48am
You obviously choose your associates badly, Tib. I know men who are selfish and irresponsible also. But the majority of BOTH sexes are decent, hard-working, responsible - and unlike you, kind and respectful. A tiny minority of women match your description. Get out and meet the millions who don't and stop your nasty bigoted ranting.
Tib
24th Oct 2017
10:04am
Oh dear your ranting Rainey, that comment I mentioned was repeated one women after another. I real dive for the low moral ground.
TinTin
23rd Oct 2017
5:36pm
Hi Aussie, If you are thinking of living overseas then you'd be wise to take a look at the following information at postcards@ilaustralia.com
They are always trying too sell their booklet but you don't have buy it just read the letters they receive from Aussies living overseas, of course I don't know if the letters are genuine but they sound it.
Cheers and good look.
Rainey
23rd Oct 2017
5:52pm
I can't imagine ever fully retiring, provided my health holds up. But I was sure keen to slow down a lot and I can't imagine working full time at my age. My partner will stay active, but probably never earn anything again. He will work on hobby projects until he drops though. I'm very fortunate to have work I can do from home (or anywhere there's an internet connection) and to be able to work whenever I want, for as many or as few hours per month as I want most months (Every now and then there is an urgent project that demands my full attention for a few weeks, but that's fine too.)

I don't know how I'd cope if I couldn't earn a little. There is just no financial security for retirees today. The government is constantly cutting into pension incomes. Inflation is driving the cost of necessities sky high, and the pension increases nowhere near matches the hideous cost increases. And the investment market is far from secure. Even retirees with a reasonable nest egg can't feel confident of their financial future unless they are close to the end of their lives. $1 million may sound a lot, but most younger retirees with less than that will undoubtedly run out of capital before they die.
TinTin
23rd Oct 2017
6:09pm
Hi Jim B, You mentioned that you are retired and on the full age pension of $894 a fortnight.
Do you own your own home and have a partner? I have retired too and own my own home and have a partner who isn't at the retiring age but doesn't work. However my pension is $640 or thereabouts and I'm told that's because I have an asset which is my house. I'm wondering whether my pension should be $894.
Sundays
23rd Oct 2017
6:39pm
Tin Tin. Jim B is getting the full single person rate. Unfortunately because you have a partner you are getting the much lower half of a couple rate. You won’t get the full couple rate until your partner reaches retirement age. Your partner may qualify for some Newstart or Disability pension. Check with Centrelink. Your house is exempt from any asset test if it is your primary residence.
Charlie
23rd Oct 2017
6:10pm
Unaware of how much money it takes to retire comfortably.
Unaware of the amount of activity it takes to replace work and have a healthy lifestyle.
Unaware of how the workforce treats age pensioners.

All of the government employment agencies including the ones for disabled people are geared for finding work for people who are on the benefits.
It is more important to get people off benefits, than to find them suitable work. Age pensioners who get their pension anyway, are unimportant and just a nuisance because they take work that could be used to get people off unemployment benefits.
It's a far cry from the "Centrelink" employment office of the 1970's that actually filled the role of agent for the employer and sent people to jobs after assessing their suitability.
Rae
24th Oct 2017
2:22pm
Yes Charlie. The old CES was made up of public servants working to help people find jobs and thus save the government money. The new for profit mob get paid for each client so I can't see why they would bother as their aim is to make money for their employer not help people find work or save the taxpayer.

It was a stupid idea to privatise the employment industry.
Tib
23rd Oct 2017
6:36pm
My advice to men is retire early. You won't live that long and you might as well enjoy what years you have. If the money runs out after you die the wife will manage on the pension, or she could get a job. The other option is you could be a wage slave till you die and your wife will have a great time after your dead.
Tib
23rd Oct 2017
6:38pm
I know which option your wife prefers, it's the one where she goes on European trips after your dead.
MD
23rd Oct 2017
8:58pm
Isn't it great to read the comment from the happy few, who, content with their lot in life and happy to say so thereby deserve all the kudos, you folk obviously have both intestinal fortitude and the conviction to relate your story, complete with detail, for our edification. A veritable breath of fresh air no less.
The present and respective retiree-residents from both good ole Uncle Sam and the ole Blighty have been drawn on for comparison with our lot in life, as to why puzzles me. Agreed - we're all now considered within the all encompassing 'global community' but does it necessarily therefore follow that we can expect to mimic a comparative retirement lifestyle?
Not personally being conversant with either of those countries' pension system or whether compulsory super exists for their retirees has me wondering whether I'm the odd one out. For that matter who cares ? Unless anyone local is contemplating the uplift and move to either UK or USA, what does it matter how we compare. If, for any reason whatever anyone considers those countries offer a better deal, then nobody is stopping you. As it stands we're battling to find common ground within our own country - and this relative to some of the most basic considerations, eg, laws, road rules, railway guages, taxes, so on and so forth ad infinitum. I'm sure the Poms and Yanks would turn cartwheels to learn that we of the never never, down under, antipodes are not on par with their lot in life.

Come hell or high water, each of us knows damn well that all roads lead to the cemetery and in the event of inadequate provision for retirement then prepare for the necessary adjustments to live within the means of constraint as limited by the age pension. It CAN be adequate, a couple of the earlier testimonials bear proof - and that's a fact.
Tib
23rd Oct 2017
9:18pm
MD I live on about the same money as a pensioner I've never had any trouble living on that, I have managed my money fairly well but I never do without. My actual income is a few times what a pensioner gets but mostly I don't need it. Some people could have millions and they would still be in trouble and still complaining.
*Loloften*
24th Oct 2017
3:15am
"Adequate" is not enough when one has children/their spouses & 6 young grandkids & can't afford, on the Single Age Pension, to buy them decent pressies for their birthdays & Christmas. It's sad, definitely not "adequate." Also not adequate when struggle with ever increasing utilities/insurances/old home's maintenance/old appliance replacements etc etc + now needing to pay for Internet Provider if don't want all the $$s added if request paper bills!
Rainey
24th Oct 2017
9:45am
Tib, your statement is arrogant in the extreme. If your income is a few times what a pensioner gets, you neither live on the same money as a pensioner, nor have any understanding of the challenges a pensioner faces. It's like a politician living on a small income for a short term. It's NOTHING remotely resembling the experience of the low income earner when you have money to fall back on if it's needed. Sure, we can all make do on peanuts from month to month, knowing that when that big bill comes in or some crisis happens, there is money in reserve. But battlers don't have that luxury. They not only have to make the pension stretch to cover day to day expenses, but they have to struggle to find ways to put a bit aside for big bills and unexpected costs. That's where the real challenge lies.

Your arrogance and obvious contempt for others is grossly offensive, Tib. Have some respect for others for goodness sake. You may think you deserve your comparative prosperity, but luck always has a hand in it no matter how diligent you may have been. So just be grateful for your comfort and show some human decency to those who have not been so fortunate.
Tib
24th Oct 2017
9:54am
Rainey if I'm doing well it's because of hard work and sacrifice. I also manage money carefully. I'm also one of those men you suggest women should marry , you know men who make women's life easier by doing all the work and paying all their bills.
Rainey
24th Oct 2017
4:04pm
Tib, no woman in her right mind would want to marry such an arrogant and bigoted man. Why would any sensible woman want a husband who is so vile and verbally abusive of women?

You may be doing well because of hard work and sacrifice. So am I. But NOBODY does well without a huge element of luck. It's luck that you are in good health. It's luck that you have avoided expensive family crisis and natural disasters. It's luck that you have skills and basic intelligence to learn how to manage well.

Some of us are grateful for our good fortune and acknowledge it. Others simply abuse and condemn those who were less fortunate and beat their egotistical chests, not caring a damn who they might offend.
Raphael
24th Oct 2017
8:36pm
Loloften
while i can sympathise with trying to manage paying essential bills, expecting government to fund pressies for kids and grandkids is a bit much
Offputting actually, and makes me think that there is no end to greed with some people
Rainey
25th Oct 2017
8:38am
''Greed'', Raphael? Really? Expecting the government that collected a mega-millions from us that was intended to fund our retirement and then stole and misappropriated all of it to provide a decent standard of living for the pensioners it robbed. Come now! The greed is on the part of the wealthy tax-dodgers who ripped off the nation for decades and now want the aged to suffer poverty so the rip-offs can continue. It's a sick individual that calls someone ''greedy'' for wanting the pension to be raised sufficiently to allow grandparents to buy a small gift for grandchildren at Christmas and on birthdays. What sort of miserable life are you wishing on the aged when you want to deprive them of one of the few little pleasures left to them?
Raphael
25th Oct 2017
4:41pm
You have to be kidding. Which planet are you from?

Would you like the taxpayer to also pay for an annual overseas holiday as well.

Let's see , what else - how about a new car every 5 years, a massage every few weeks for their weary bones, free movie tickets, dinner at a nice restaurant with the family on mothers and fathers day ....
Old Geezer
25th Oct 2017
9:38pm
That just shows the welfare mentality of this country today. Many want everything on a silver platter without even lifting a finger to get it.
Rainey
26th Oct 2017
2:25pm
Raphael, there's a world of difference between spending on massages, new cars, and overseas holidays and wanting to give your grandchildren a small and inexpensive gift in recognition of their birthday.

Nobody is asking for everything on a silver platter without lifting a finger, OG. Most of today's pensioners worked very hard for often very meagre wages and paid a percentage of their income into a fund to support them in old age. It's not their fault a corrupt government stole and misappropriated that fund. Others saved in superannuation funds that were raided by corrupt fund managers whose conduct was not properly regulated by negligent governments.

All most retirees ask for is modest comfort and respect for the extensive contribution they made to building the society we enjoy today. I am appalled that the privileged pigs seek to deny them that pathetically small reward for decades of giving.
Cheezil61
23rd Oct 2017
9:07pm
It annoys me that articles like this claim/assume we don't know how much $ we will need in retirement, when most likely it's a case of knowing how much we need but being unable to afford to save the amount needed for retirement due to costs of having to live in the present (ie tho we run a tight budget there is still barely enough money to pay the current bills & costs of living, how the heck can we be expected to put money away for retirement as well as cover what is needed now unless we earn politicians wages of course!
Rae
24th Oct 2017
2:38pm
You are right Cheezli, it isn't possible for minimum wage workers or those on casual employment. The figures don't stack up at all.
CindyLou
24th Oct 2017
12:32am
Fairly predictable comments following this article/thread. Certainly entertaining, people spending only $4 a week on fuel, fabulous but obviously does not drive much, another contributor bagging "women" at every opportunity (I had thought of responding to this post but it seemed pointless). Oh well, such is life !
Raphael
24th Oct 2017
1:16am
Those who don’t retire at pensionable age either :
1 enjoy being in the workforce and/or running their businesses : or
2. Want to live an affluent lifestyle over and above what their pension entitlement affords them

Quite simple really
*Loloften*
24th Oct 2017
3:20am
Life's not "simple" Raphael, happy to know that yours is, hope it continues.
*Loloften*
24th Oct 2017
2:52am
Nanna75, so sorry to hear, know your predicament...similar circumstances altho' I worked both p/time & f/time (when kids adults) most of almost 40yr wedded bliss. Beloved Hubby passed away @ 61 after battling 2 very different cancers for 9yrs & chose to use up all his accumulated sick (only approx 1 day off annually prior)/annual & long-service leaves during his many ops/chemos/radios/tests/GP & Specialists visits etc etc. I stopped work to look after him/be with him during all above & couldn't drive home after most. T'was only granted Carer's payment 11mths prior to his death, when Palliative Care Nurse signed & stamped a new application for me!? The very best/high earning yrs of both our lives were lost. I still had a small mortgage but insignificant re our Super's, especially hubby's. However, we very happily spent all of mine & heaps of his to fulfil most of his "bucket list" in eternal hope that it would keep him happy/well/alive. Don't regret it for a second as lived well past what he joking called his "use by date" as per all Drs/Specialists - altho' I'm stuggling a bit now. We widows do have to scrimp - I have 2 very helpful sons as well + 6 adorable grandkids (minding my 4yo youngest twins wkly now, love it), can no longer buy 'em all the b/day, Chrissie pressies we used to do - scrimping!!
Rae
24th Oct 2017
2:44pm
I put away a few dollars a week Lol and take them out once a year for an experience.

Sometimes as simple as a picnic somewhere there are trees to climb or a train/ferry trip. etc.

I find they have so much stuff they don't really need much in the pressies way but do enjoy those experiences.

Organising a day everyone can be together is the hardest part.

They'll remember the times you shared with them for ever but I doubt they'll remember stuff you bought them.
TinTin
24th Oct 2017
11:52am
Rainey, I agree wholeheartedly about what you said... "There are just as many irresponsible spendthrift men as there are women, and likely a lot more lazy drunks and gamblers among males. Far too many women have been left destitute by selfish, irresponsible men." In fact I'd say there are a lot more irresponsible men than women, i.e.: drunks, gamblers, drug takers in particular. One thing Tib has said that rings true is that there are a lot of females that expect men to provide for them.
Rae
24th Oct 2017
2:48pm
There appears to be a lot of men who need a mum at home to look after them and their kids as well.

I'd suggest paying for childcare and sharing the housework would allow for greater savings over the long haul.
TinTin
24th Oct 2017
11:57am
Sundays...Thank you for your helpful information about the pension rate.
KIAH
24th Oct 2017
3:42pm
There could be several reasons why most people don't want to retire these days. Some have no choice, having been careless with money earlier in life now find they don't have enough for a comfortable retirement. Others are simply workaholics. Work is their thing and more power to them. If you enjoy what you do, why not continue?

Some people like myself like to re invent themselves. I've had two careers in my life then left them both to join my husband in business. Now that he's retiring I am going to follow another dream! Then again, there are some who are so talented in what they do, their contemporaries won't let them retire and do everything they can to retain their services.

.
KIAH
24th Oct 2017
3:44pm
PS: I don't see why the government should do more than they are to "help anyone through." It's up to us surely?
Rainey
24th Oct 2017
3:58pm
It is ''up to us'', Kiah, but the government does have a moral and ethical obligation to help those who have suffered injustice or have endured hardship or suffered disability while serving their country or the community. Further, the government should honour its commitments and ensure that monies put aside by today's retirees for their retirement are paid to them honestly and fairly - not misappropriated as they have been. The government owes today's retirees a great deal, and should be doing a lot more to help them through.
KIAH
24th Oct 2017
4:22pm
.
"the government does have a moral and ethical obligation to help those who have suffered injustice or have endured hardship or suffered disability while serving their country or the community"

Agree with those points Rainey. meant to point out similar in my PS but duty called:)
.
Old Geezer
24th Oct 2017
11:24pm
All the government does and should do is provide welfare for those who have no other means of support. It owes retirees nothing at all.
Rainey
25th Oct 2017
8:32am
It stole our money, OG. It owes us big time!
Rainey
25th Oct 2017
8:33am
And in many cases it stole our health and ability to enjoy life also.
Old Geezer
25th Oct 2017
10:34am
What a lot of rubbish Rainey! It stole nothing from me or anyone else.
Bijou
25th Oct 2017
1:28pm
Rainey, please can you tell me how the government "stole our health and ability to enjoy life?" Thanks!
Old Geezer
25th Oct 2017
2:52pm
Bijou unfortunately we now live in a welfare state where people expect the government to provide for their old age even if they have more than enough to provide for themselves. Enough is never enough for these people and hence they now blame the government because they didn't have the foresight to provide enough for themselves in old age. Now one can't blame unhealthy living and their own foolishness for being unhealthy and unable to enjoy life in old age can they? Of course not so who else to blame but the government.
Bijou
25th Oct 2017
8:32pm
Old Geezer, I have to agree with you. Taking responsibility for our own lives in my opinion, is the best gift we can pass on to our children. Thank you for replying.
Rainey
26th Oct 2017
2:20pm
I agree that we now live in a welfare state where some people's expectations are often unrealistic, OG and Bijou. But equally it is fact that our generation paid into a fund to provide for our old age and that money was misappropriated by greedy governments who now wish to claim that we should have provided better for ourselves.

When I refer to ''stealing our health and ability to enjoy life'', I am referring to cases of government abuse of individuals such as by allowing the wrongful institutionalization of children and permitting neglect and abuse in institutions, permitting abuse in the military (now documented and fully acknowledged by the government - and often this abuse was of very young boys who had no means of protection), and various other instances of government abuse or allowing injustice.

In many cases I can point to, retirees are in ill health because of childhood neglect and/or abuse in institutions or untreated injuries while serving in the military.

Yes, we must all take responsibility for our own lives and make what we can of ourselves, and we should certainly pass on that message to our children. But equally we should acknowledge the disadvantage suffered by many who have been dealt a cruel hand, and we should support fair and reasonable aid for these people - particularly in their later years. The government IS to blame for a great deal of pain and suffering in specific areas, and it's wrong for the more privileged to deny that and blame the victims. Many who DID have the foresight to provide for themselves in old age have been dealt cruel blows by nature (natural disasters) or have suffered disability as a result of accident. Many suffered loss as a result of the misappropriation of their superannuation savings by corrupt fund managers - something the government failed dismally to police for far too long. Some have been affected by disease despite doing everything possible to maintain their health.

It's easy to allocate blame and beat your chest and pretend superiority when you have enjoyed good fortune. It's much harder to show empathy, respect and human decency and acknowledge that not everyone has been as fortunate as you and I in being blessed with the intelligence and personal strength to be able to overcome hardship and prosper in spite of it.

The people I work with have been dealt some very cruel blows - blows many of your arrogant egotists would not have recovered from. And yes, to a large extent, the government WAS at fault in many cases. But ignorance is bliss, so keep beating your chests and claiming superiority if it makes you happy.
Old Geezer
27th Oct 2017
11:58am
Why live if things are that bad Rainey?
Rainey
27th Oct 2017
1:43pm
Typical response from a sicko egotistical scumbag! If someone is doing it tough, kill them off. Only the privileged deserve a life! What a horrid person you are, OG!
Rainey
27th Oct 2017
3:33pm
Really, OG! You think that people who have been hurt by injustice and government failure should be exterminated rather than the government held to account and asked to help victims of their negligence? Do you also support killing victims of crime to prevent criminals having to answer for their evil deeds?

You support taxpayers giving pensions to people who bludged or lived the high life and didn't save for retirement, as long as they are happy and don't complain - but you begrudge victims of social failure a little extra help to deal with the problems created by that failure?
Reagan - Zoologist
27th Oct 2017
3:58pm
Why are they "social failures?" did they gamble, drink and smoke until they got so sick, the state must now look after them?
CindyLou
27th Oct 2017
4:24pm
What crazy posts...omg

The Rainey post was unbelievable - the percentage of people adversely affected by government and non government institutions would be have to be minimal. Statements such as the government is to blame for this or that... Bizarre, learned helplessness ?

Unfortunately I believe that some Australians have a poor attitude - that this wonderful country owes them. That's sad.

In my opinion, some folk are fairly useless with money and their life in general. They make dumb choices, play the victim, have a sense of entitlement. However, and thankfully, some people suffer adversities BUT have the backbone to get back up and improve their situation. It's called character and integrity.
Rainey
27th Oct 2017
5:53pm
Sad, Cindy Lou, how ignorant some are. The percentage of people adversely affected by government and non-government institutions may not be all that high, but the numbers are disturbing. Well into the hundreds of thousands - and that's just counting orphanages and children's homes, not the military and other institutions.

No, there's no ''learned helplessness'' involved. Most of these people have displayed impressive strength and courage, and have excellent attitudes. But in old age, health problems arise as a result of early abuse and in a decent society we would support the notion that they should be assisted to a reasonable extent. These ''dumb choices'' and ''play victim'' claims are cruel and ignorant. These people DID have the backbone to get up and improve their situation. They worked hard. They raised families. They contributed to the community. Now, in old age, they want a little extra help to overcome specific problems that arise from the abuse they suffered earlier in life, and you slander them for that? Yet those who enjoyed the good life and privilege rort the nation for all the handouts they can get, and apparently that's acceptable, as long as they don't make any reference to having suffered social injustice?

Reagan, you apparently can't read! I didn't say these folk were ''social failures''. I said they were VICTIMS of social failure. Society failed them - not the other way around. And because they DID NOT gamble, drink and smoke until they got sick, but worked hard and didn't complain, the state hasn't had to do much to look after them. In old age, many are suffering the effects of early childhood abuse and neglect, and now they ask for a little extra help - and horrid people condemn and blame them and show no compassion or human decency. What a sick society we live in!
CindyLou
27th Oct 2017
8:21pm
I really dislike sweeping statements, hence frame comments with the word SOME

Some individuals have a rough start, perhaps born into poverty, institution-orphanages-children's homes or maybe later in life, trauma from military or other circumstance. Life is not fair - it is what it is, however, a great many individuals have the emotional intelligence - backbone - guts - attitude - resilence, call it what you want, to overcome adversity.

However, some individuals do not appear to have the personality to rise and thrive. That's a shame, often resulting in transgenerstilnal income support dependence and issues relating to poverty.

One further point, I very much doubt that those who "enjoyed the good life and privilege" are in receipt of government handouts. Assets - income tests prohibit this.

The topic of this discussion relates to individuals thoughts and discussion on their expectations in retirement; questions about our thoughts of government pensions etc. and gender gap issues.

Isn't it amazing how the discussion goes off topic !
Isaac - Renaissance Man
27th Oct 2017
9:59pm
Rainey have you tried meditation??? This work for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ23rdXf-Q4
Rainey
28th Oct 2017
10:02am
I don't need meditation, Pyotr. I'm very happy. I have a great life. That's why I stand up for folk who have suffered injustice or trauma and haven't been able - for whatever reason - to jump the hurdles life has presented.

Cindy Lou, sadly the number who enjoyed the good life and privilege on pensions is astounding - for three reasons: (1) there are lots of accomplished cheats out there; and (2) many wasted their money; and (3) the system encourages manipulation and punishes those who work hard, save, and do the right thing (unless they achieve very substantial wealth - generally well in excess of $1 million).

I didn't make any sweeping statements. Read what I said. I said the government owes THOSE WHO HAVE SUFFERED INJUSTICE. It was OG who immediately went on the attack with nasty generalisations, and then insisted that those who suffer because of past cruelty or injustice should not continue to live.

Yes, the topic is expectations in retirement and questions about our thoughts of government pensions. And that's precisely what I was commenting on. I raised the fact that funds were collected to pay pensions and were misappropriated by past governments and that fact, combined with the fact that many suffered injustice, abuse and cruelty due to government failure in the past, presents a case for government to do more for retirees in need. But the criteria should be changed. A simplistic income/assets test that allows folk to gift their money 5 years before retirement, kills incentives to save and be honest, ignores special needs, and provides abundant opportunities for cheats and manipulators to rort is not good enough.

I find it mind-boggling, though, that people attack me personally for standing up for what I think is right and fair and would benefit those in greatest need.
Rainey
28th Oct 2017
10:18am
BTW. Cindy Lou - if ''the percentage of people adversely affected by government and non government institutions would be have to be minimal'', the government should be well positioned to address the needs those government institutions created. Helping a ''minimal percentage'' of people shouldn't be too much of an imposition on the budget.
CindyLou
28th Oct 2017
4:36pm
Rainey, the government very generously pays a modest pension and disability allowance to about 3 million people. It's not a bottomless pit money wise - that's the reality.

My husband, myself and many of our family and friends paid tax throughout our working lives - we won't ever see a cent in a pension. No complaints - that's how it is. I know folk on the pension, don't begrudge them their allowance - it just is what it is.
Bonny
28th Oct 2017
7:07pm
I know a retired couple who did give away their asets 5 years before they were elligible for the OAP. They also had a deal with thier son that if things got bad for them he would help them out. Son has since been killed in an accident and his wife has taken everything and told the retired couple that she has no obligation to help them etc and to ******* off. They now cannot afford life saving drugs not covered by own PBS.

So why anyone would give all their wealth away just to get the OAP has me scratching my head considering the little it pays considering the risk taken.
Rainey
28th Oct 2017
7:36pm
Cindy Lou, my partner and I also paid tax throughout our working lives and may never see a cent in pension. Actually, I do begrudge some pensioners, because most of the pensioners I know were far, far better off throughout their working lives than my partner and I. But they spent freely and didn't save as we did. I guess they were smarter, because they now have healthy savings earning good returns to top up generous pensions, and they enjoy all sorts of benefits and discounts we don't quality for as we are forced to steadily drain our hard-won savings for the benefit of others.

That aside, I acknowledge that the government pays pensions to some 3 million people, and of course it's not a bottomless pit. But I'd like to see reform that sees that money better spent. I'd like to see a fairer system that focuses more on ensuring the genuinely deserving receive more and the manipulating cheats receive less. I believe the pension system is ill-conceived, expensive, unfair, poorly administered, and often quite cruel. And it irks me that every time I make a comment, cruel, arrogant egotists attack me personally and make nasty and quite unjustified remarks suggesting that there is something wrong with me - that I'm greedy, lazy, a whinger, weak, lacking backbone....

It seems to be beyond these people's limited mental capacity to understand that I am not speaking for myself and that my objective is to highlight areas where there could, potentially, be beneficial reform - reform that might even reduce the total pension bill while improving the quality of life in our society.

At very least, I'd like to see some honesty and integrity in government. Admit that our generation paid taxes that were meant to fund aged pensions, because there was no universal superannuation back in the day. Admit that monies were misappropriated. Stop spreading lies about how ''easy'' it was for our generation and pretending the budget problem is somehow the fault of retirees. And stop grasping at the easy straws to save money, constantly hammering at retirees, instead of looking at ways to collect tax revenue that is morally and ethically due but isn't being paid.

Nobody is asking you to pay more, Cindy Lou. But heaven forbid the well off should be asked to show empathy or compassion for those who genuinely suffered serious injustice and cruel abuse and who now, in old age, are struggling to deal with the long term consequences. It's far more comfortable to deny it ever happened or find ways to blame the victims. The privileged have never been good at acknowledging uncomfortable realities.

Yes, Bonny, I also know people who gave away assets to get the pension and I don't understand it either. I also know many who plunged tens of thousands into home improvements or took overseas holidays to reduce their assets - and that I DO understand, because our system is foolishly oppressive and punitive, and it doesn't need to be.

Some of us have the ability to look beyond anecdotal evidence, jealousy, and personal interest and look for potential improvements. Others cannot seem to get past the urge to personally attack at every turn. Sad!
Isaac - Renaissance Man
29th Oct 2017
12:30pm
Retiring is not an option for me and that's not because of having to earn since I can retire fully right now and live like a millionaire. I like trying new things and learning new stuff, so I imagine I shall be one of those people who will be working until ill health prevents this.
CindyLou
29th Oct 2017
12:40pm
That's fabulous Vinci - but I hope it's not a case of all work no play...

Retiring a little bit early when you are in good health means you have the health, agility and energy to do some amazing adventures - whilst I could have worked for several more years I've done lots. Don't think I could physically do these things if I'd waited 7-10 years to retire at 65. (some examples, walked the great wall of China, travelled to Cape York - sleeping in a tent - I'm not a tent gal but I did it cause it was the cheapest option and was fun! )

Seize the moment.
Isaac - Renaissance Man
29th Oct 2017
1:18pm
Good on you CindyLou. Yes like you, we both love travel. It's not all work and no play for us. I come from a science background and my wife is a marine biologist and a couple of years ago we bought a boat which we use both for work and pleasure. Great life, so we enjoy it while we can :)


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