17th Apr 2013

NBN advertising a waste

NBN advertising a waste
Drew Patchell

As of October 2012, Federal Government departments and the NBN Co had spent $37 million advertising the National Broadband Network (NBN). A further $15 million is set to be spent between then and June 2013.

The announcement last week of the Federal Opposition’s alternative NBN policy saw a wave of free media and opinions, which would have been hard for anyone with their eyes and ears open to miss. Yet, during all of this free publicity, a bombardment of NBN Co advertisements started to appear on free-to-air television stations.

‘Designed to meet your needs’ is the title of one such Federal Government funded NBN ad, included above. It explains the current Federal Government’s NBN plans, points out why copper wiring is old technology and shows how the increased speeds will benefit the average Australian.

The latest Fairfax/Nielsen poll shows Labor's primary vote has slipped to 29 per cent compared to the Coalition's 49 per cent. The same poll revealed that 63 per cent of Australians preferred Labor's NBN policy.



Read more from Northern Weekly.

Read more from the Financial Review.

 

Opinion: Policy promotion in disguise

Australian governments at both a state and federal level have been using taxpayer money to push party policies for years and the current round of NBN advertisements, approved and funded by the Federal Labor Government, is no different. I would like to start by disclosing that I voted for the Coalition at the last two elections, but believe that Labor’s NBN solution is the better option of the two.

As a taxpayer, I am disgusted to see Labor spending the nation’s money advertising the NBN on free-to-air television. The Coalition holds an almost unprecedented two-party preferred lead just six months out from the Federal Election and have shorter odds to win than Black Caviar had on the weekend.

While we knew for a long time that the Coalition had opposed the current NBN, and that they would be releasing their own plans, last week’s announcement saw significant differences in policy to what is currently being implemented around Australia.

The Coalition’s NBN plans were savaged by the media, the Federal Labor Party and even our very own Kaye Fallick last week for being a lemon. Yet the policy did not see a decline in the Liberal poll numbers – in fact it had the opposite effect.

It seems as though Labor is trying to seize the moment with one of its most popular policies by pushing public money into promoting the NBN. Legally, the advertisements can be put on air, but ethically, should this be happening?

By the time the 2013 election rolls around, less than 1.5 per cent of the Australian population will have the NBN connected to their homes and, if the current uptake trends continue, there will be less than 0.5 per cent of the population using the NBN.

The Federal Government cannot justify spending another cent of taxpayer money to advertise a product that which will not exist in seven months’ time.

Are you outraged at how much is being spent on advertising the NBN?





COMMENTS

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Chookman
17th Apr 2013
11:20am
Drew, I neither vote for the Coalition nor the ALP - but to hold one party up for ridicule re advertising when in government is farcical. A careful perusal of governments of both persuasions over the past two decades will show that it is common practice. The need for the current government to advertise the NBN is driven by the refusal of the coalition to provide bipartisan support to the NBN - and its proposed replacement model will be a retrograde step. I note today that Japan is starting to roll out speeds that make the NBN look pedestrian - let alone the 25mbps prosoed by the coalition.
Jen
22nd Apr 2013
11:57am
I just found this thread and Chookman, you said it all and said it perfectly.
aquatrek
22nd Apr 2013
12:03pm
Jen: some of Chookman's cluckings are correct but not all by a long shot !!
student
29th Apr 2013
12:40pm
and the Opposition want to make it slower and more costly!! Gimme a break!
SBBB
17th Apr 2013
11:40am
Hi Drew,
While I agree that advertising "policy" in this way is a cunning use of the rules, both sides do
it.
On the other hand, I'm in favour of the NBN and I think everyone who is should register
that with Malcolm Turnbull. His email address is "malcolm.turnbull.mp@aph.gov.au",
perhaps then the coalition will get the message.
Jen
22nd Apr 2013
12:03pm
Done.
student
29th Apr 2013
12:45pm
Ummm excuse me, but doesn't Mr. Turnbull belong to the party that wants a slower and more expensive NBN ?? Do you really think the Mad Abbott will dare change his view on the NBN??
Misty
17th Apr 2013
11:45am
I agree with Chookman, if you are going to show a bias AGAINST ONE PARTY I WILL NO LONGER BE A MEMBER OF THIS SITE, please keep your political leanings to yourself. Who is paying for the ads the Liberal Party have been running about their 5 point plan I would like to know and anyway voters have a right to know the difference between the 2 NBN plans so why not advertise so voters can make up their own minds and know where to go for the information. I am very disappointed that you have printed this article.
Vaycee
17th Apr 2013
2:03pm
An advertisement would not make my mind up as it is always skewed towards the advertising party. If I want to find information I go to the government or party websites where you are more likely to get the whole picture, not just what they want you to hear.
student
29th Apr 2013
12:56pm
Fear is a powerful and negative tool. Fear, not facts, is what makes the Oppositions advertising so powerful.
doclisa
17th Apr 2013
11:54am
Drew You are missing the point of the advertising. I have found in everyday work with many people that they do not understand the benefits of the NBN. The Oppositon leader has only taken on board the idea of oppositon not leading, so he and his party has clouded the issue with blatent lies that the government has to respond. They are trying hard to take us into the 21st century and the Opposition want most of us for cheap, not connected insular workforce. This is a good thing for our Prime Minister to do to ensure our freedom of information and transperant decision making which we asked for. Plus if the Opposition would work for the country and not against it this program to correct their continuous and ongoing lies and the sheer madness of their 5 point plan (otherwise know as a flyer) would not be necessary.
This is what happens when we have a negative opposition program who work only to self agrandisement and not for the Country.
student
29th Apr 2013
12:51pm
Good one doclisa ... I agree whole heartedly.
Robbie
17th Apr 2013
11:55am
Drew, do you remember under the Howard years the constant advertising of all Government policies? Do you remember how much Howard spend advertising the GST? Every commercial break had two ore more pro-GST advertisements in them. Who can forget "Unchain My Heart" commercials where heavy chains fell off people because a great big tax on everything which was imposed on people was being sold as 'liberating'! Advertising the NBN, what is one of the most popular government policies, informs people the difference between the Opposition's copper network upgrade as an alternative. If Tony Abbott had not identified himself as 'Mr No' to everything the government did or proposed and with the absence of media bias, showed more bi-partisanship for the good of the country, maybe the government wouldn't feel the need to push this so hard. As for saying the government will be replaced by Tony Abbott, don't count your chickens before they're hatched. There are no guarantees in politics. There is a lot that can happen before the last election. It's the poll on election day that counts!
Vaycee
17th Apr 2013
2:07pm
If the NBN is one of the most popular government policies, why is the uptake so poor especially as it would seem to be rolling out to Labor electorates. Looking at an overlay of the NBN roll-out map and an electoral map - seems to be very similar. I'd love to have the NBN, but I'm not likely to get it any time soon.
geomac
17th Apr 2013
3:58pm
Howard spent 2 billion on advertising . Remember unchain my heart being sung every night on tv for Howard ads ? That was saturation ad campaign . Looks like a rubbish article written to fill in time and space or just plain bias .
student
29th Apr 2013
1:18pm
maybe the co-incidence between the NBN roll-out and Labor electorates will give the information starved Labor electorates the information they don't have. Isn't that one reason for the NBN??

Robbie, I didn't vote for the GST and I do remember how good it was going to be .. everything a lot cheaper (except caviar)and a lot fairer .. ho hum.

I too am a bit surprised at this topic ... IS the cost of the advertising a problem?? 'Telling/informing Australian voters what we (the Gov) are doing with their money" is legal, as for ethical (meaning we the tax payers are paying to be informed where our money is benefiting us!) ... is anything in politics ethical?? As 'geomac' said, Mr. Howard spent $m's on advertising so why shouldn't other Partys in Gov do the same?? They will always justify their actions.
scragger
17th Apr 2013
12:10pm
There is not much doubt, even if you are not a techno expert like me, that the ALP roll out is better than the Coalition. BUT, what about the cost? Where is the money coming from? The end user will have to pay. I would like to know how much I will have to pay for the NBN if I keep the same package (telephone/internet) I currently have with Optus. Nobody seems to have an answer. I don't want to have to pay twice as much for the NBN for a speed I don't really need. Will I have a choice? If I pay $110 monthly now for what I consider is an extremely good product, I wont want to be pay $220 for a quicker speed but less download capacity. Those ordinary home consumers who like the ALP policy should be asking how much more will it cost them. I guarantee businesses will be in favour of the ALP policy because businesses will pass on the extra cost to their customers.
BrianP
17th Apr 2013
12:10pm
Labour and PM PLEASE NOTE. One of the biggest reasons your vote support is falling, is the tax payers money you waste on publicity. It is irresponsible governaunce. Stop it now.
Misty
17th Apr 2013
12:17pm
Brian who is paying for Tony Abbott's 5 point plan?, do you know?, and what makes you think things would be different under a Liberal Coalition government I would like to know. People will complain either way, don't give them the information to make an informed choice and they will complain, give it to them as they are doing now and they will still complain, as you are, it's a no win situation.
slapsy
20th Apr 2013
12:47pm
Is that why John Howard was not re-elected?
Jen
22nd Apr 2013
12:11pm
Brian, one of the biggest reasons support for the Labor party is falling is that they have failed miserably at putting out information on the very good things they have achieved. There are many, but with our biased media and lack of information put out to the public, support for Mr. No to Everything has risen.
aquatrek
22nd Apr 2013
12:30pm
ah Jen: if there has been a record number of bills passed then the NLP are hardly 'negative' - that is just a spin doctor term coined by Juliars Visa 427 henchman McTeirnan - what a rort by the ALP
lowflyer
17th Apr 2013
12:11pm
Cor talk about a whole lot of chooks. Perhaps you don't realise that the NBN under Labour will cost in the vicinity of $90.00 per month and that is if you can get it. The nearest Hub as they call it would be Townsville and then copper fromthere and being almost the last on the line you can imagine how fast it will be.
Come on your folks wake up. Neither will be very good but the Co--======= lot will be somewhat cheaper.
Misty
17th Apr 2013
1:56pm
How do you know what either will cost to the home?, where are your figures coming from and what data backs them up.
Anonymous
17th Apr 2013
3:48pm
lowflyer
NBN will not cost anymore than what you are paying now. The government have spent a lot of time negotiating with all parties (years in fact) in regard to the NBN.

It is the oppositions joke NFN that will most likely cost more because of the necessity to maintain and repair the dilapidated copper (a conservative figure of $1billion has been raised), someone has to pay for this - taxpayers coffers or users directly to Telstra).
The whole of Australia will be covered by the NBN or per satellite...that is the governments platform. It is the NFN that will probably not get everywhere and in many cases, those that are a long way from the node (big fridge size box on every corner) will get the same service as what they have now.

The governments NBN will put Australia in the forefront of innovation and technology whereas the oppositions NFN will need to be done all over again in 5 years time and drag Australia down to the dark ages.
geomac
17th Apr 2013
4:03pm
My present ISP has plans for the NBN starting at $39.95 a month so where do you get your 90 bucks from ?
http://www.aussiebroadband.com.au/nbn/fibre/plans-and-pricing/
student
29th Apr 2013
1:48pm
ummmm wait a minute 'lowflier', " ... would be Townsville and then copper fromthere ..." Copper?? Are you confusing the Opposition's copper lines with the Government's NBN ??? I didn't know the Government was using copper wiring too. I think someone in Townsville is telling porkies.
kevinc
17th Apr 2013
12:41pm
Hi Drew, and congratulations for courage in stating you voting rights. It would appear
that "Chookman" "SBBB" "Misty" can,t read. You stated in the first line all Governments have been guilty of spending Tax payers money pushing their own barrow,and like you, Im opposed to that waste.
None of this glossy style of advertising tell the true story, and between now and the election there will be plenty of intelligent debate without farcical waste of my money .
KC
Anonymous
17th Apr 2013
4:09pm
The multi million (billion?) advertising campaign run by John Howard got everyone to vote in a NEW inequitable tax called GST - even non income earners (pensioner and other disadvantage people were slugged. The ONLY country in the world to do so..... every other country had this disgusting tax imposed upon them and the people fought hard all the way, to try and stop it.

You are already being manipulated...... the NFN is so bad, that our Foreign Media Mogul (who will lose oodles of money if the the governments NBN goes ahead), will say or do anything to get you distracted from the REAL issue - that the oppositions proposed NFN is rubbish and will set back Australia 20 years.

Our Foreign Media Mogul is desperate to dump the NBN and to do that has to get the people to dump a government that has performed better than any other government IN THE WORLD, in times when most of the powerful countries are crumbling.

Drew, I really do normally agree with most of your comments, but you have simply become a conduit for the Foreign Media Mogul to weave his SPIN and hence to protect his very long pockets. You are doing his bidding.
aquatrek
19th Apr 2013
8:52am
same old mantra Mussitate - boring boring boring - the needle must have nearly worn its way through the old plastic platter by now - fibre optic to grannies flat is a white elephant approach. Japan and other small area countries have a distinct advantage in that the infrastructure costs are much less than Oz. But the ALP dont give a rats about that - borrow borrow borrow is the red armies mantra - Telstra is still fighting to get top dollar for every millimeter of copper that is removed etc etc etc the costs are now projected out to nearly $100 billion - Conroy and Co couldnt plan a beer sale in a brewery
SBBB
17th Apr 2013
1:11pm
When I said "both sides do it" I was moving my side of the comment away from the advertising and into the policy itself.
My comment was about the NBN as a policy not about advertising policy.
Bunyip
17th Apr 2013
1:28pm
Both main political parties are not worth voting for, our country is being run by incompetent & untrustworthy bunch of manipulating encumbrances, masquerading as our elected representatives. Maybe I am being a little harsh, maybe there are a few hard working conscientious politicians, but what chance have they got? How do we get these incompetents?WE VOTE THEM IN !! and keep voting them in regardless.
We are being expertly manipulated by teams of media "experts". While political standpoints are held with the same fervor of blind fundamental religion, we are easily controlled. When we repeat dogmas, and in many cases they are not even the truth, how stupid are we? We do more research when we buy a computer or a car, but many are one eyed when it comes to politics.Does this work? hasn't for MANY years. As a Baby Boomer, passing the Baton on to our Children, I honestly can't say that they will have the benefits and security we had in our lifetime. The monetary system, both nationally and internationally is so corrupt that it looks like there is going to be a crash starting with USA currently with 104% debt to income. Our Political parties are being influenced by "deep government".... greedy grasping operators, international organizations & banks.Our governments are spending like drunken sailors, (apologies to sailors)the financial boom from our mining has been squandered and we can't sell off our land, mineral wealth, infrastructure and our industries fast enough. Lee Kwan Yew once said,"Australians will become the white trash of the Pacific",in one of his outbursts.For the sake of my family, friends and country, I earnestly hope this does not come to pass....but if we sell off the birthright of our children, it may happen. As an example, we are told, by the slick media experts and glib lying politicians that we will get cheaper electricity, water sewerage by selling off these service...did it get cheaper....noooooo. We are sooo stupid. The old saying "how do you know when a politician is lying? you see his lips move". We need TRUTH in Politics.We need competent LONG TERM planning that benefits Australians....not banks other countries or international corporations. We also need more Political Parties that represents the dreams and aspirations of hard working Australians, the 3 main Parties including The Greens, just haven't got what it takes!!
Robbie
17th Apr 2013
1:47pm
Well Bunyip. Maybe we need a new media that is not controlled by one man. That would be a good place to start. Secondly I think we need more debate in politics in which the news cycle does not take a place at the table. Thirdly maybe we need more coalition governments similar to the present one. For a minority government the debate in Parliament has been very good: a pity so few people seem to be aware of this. Just ask the Independents what their opinion is about the level of debate/input in the present governmental debate. Under previous governments everything was rammed through the parliament with the gag applied to stop debate. Maybe a Parliament of independents? I must admit it could get bogged down with debate and not much action. Maybe more newspapers with diversity instead of Murdoch where ever you look. But don't be dis-spirited. It could get worse. Support democracy when & where-ever you can. It's a fragile plant not to be taken for granted!
student
29th Apr 2013
1:33pm
I learned (first hand and to my advantage) a few years ago of the power of the media. The media can not be seen as innocent in this agenda. The media sensationalise and misreport and are allowed to get away with misinforming the public. Oligarchy, autocracy, democracy etc, all lend them self to another form of Government. Better the Government we know than the one we don't??
carmencita
17th Apr 2013
1:49pm
I don't see the necessity for advertising NBN. Why not just get on the job, the completion will speak for itself. Or are we advertising the political party and not the NBN?
Vaycee
17th Apr 2013
2:12pm
Here, here
Anonymous
17th Apr 2013
4:17pm
Without the political party, you won't get the NBN, that's the problem and why Murdoch is working so hard to get rid of one of the best performing governments in the whole WORLD.

Murdoch's pocket will be greatly affected by the introduction of the NBN but it will be business as usual with the NFN (oppositions plan) which also explains how bad the NFN will be. Another reason why the opposition will not simply state that they will run with and finish the NBN - under Abbott, they are intrinsically enmeshed with the media power of this Foreign Media Mogul.
RichF
17th Apr 2013
2:13pm
For the information of those who don't know, or perhaps want to know because it might upset their preconceived ideas; up to date information on price and process has been available on the net for some time to my personal knowledge. I rechecked just a few minutes ago. I typed in NBN prices and up popped a choice. I chose 'phones' and I was right because it included data costs as well. The site was talking about Townsville but it should be representative.
Like everything else, you make your choice and pay the money. We are light users so we would choose the NBN Light 10 plan. Yep, 10gigs a month $39.95. I suggest that that's not too far from the cost of ADSL2 with or without the + sign. Oh, by the way, there is no contract and no extra charge if you reach your limit; just shaping as you get today. And as far as I can see. there is no loading for the use of a telephone connection so you won't be paying whatever Telstra is charging right now. We don't have to pay that anyway, we are with One Senior and they charge a minimum of $20 a month for light users for line rental.
oldgreenguy
17th Apr 2013
2:39pm
Can we perhaps sue the government for misleading advertising? Whilst I would probably connect if NBN were available, my location doesn't even come up on the map for the next 3 years.
By submitting my address to the NBN rollout website I got the following really useful information!
“Area information
The NBN is coming to your place; however construction hasn't commenced in your area as yet. By the end of the year we will have commenced construction of the NBN on over 750,000 premises. To keep up to date:
Subscribe to our newsletter to find out when you will gain access to high speed broadband (with a link)
Find out more about the rollout (with a link)”
Anonymous
17th Apr 2013
4:21pm
The NBN is on the scale of one of the biggest infrastructure proposal IN THE WORLD. It is absolutely HUGE. Australia is NOT England.

That is why the rolling out of the NBN will take so long.
Crazy Horse
22nd Apr 2013
9:45pm
It is the biggest infrastructure project ever, so it's not going to be built over night but it is being built and the country will ne better for it. Unless of course Mr No gets in and wrecks it.
Bunyip
17th Apr 2013
2:44pm
Robbie, Our current crop of politicians have not got a clue about honesty, ethics or complying with the Spirit of what is reasonably expected for conduct in our Parliamentary system You can read about it on the front page regularly .In the best interests of our country a minority government on such a knife edge should only be a caretaker government, and should have gone back to the people within 12 months. It cannot possible be said that a minority government has a mandate. The Greens have degenerated into a second string Labor Party. More independents or more smaller Parties could be beneficial, give better and more complete debate. If this takes longer, then they will have to sit more and longer days.Definitely has to be better for Democracy. In big Parties, too few people have much too much say and sway in any debate. This makes it easier for the unscrupulous or corrupt to gain unfair advantage. What is reported in the media HAS to be viewed as suspect at best. Our news conglomerates should be broken up....and there was talk about putting restrictions on our internet too- that would only be done by a corrupt and frightened government. As far as NBN-if we could get reliable connections at the advertised speed, I'd be happy.
Anonymous
17th Apr 2013
4:32pm
Okay, you mentioned the Greens, the Labor Party ... where is the opposition mentioned. They are proposing to introduce a $29billion 'throw away item' they call the NFN which will set Australia back 20 years because it is out of date already and cannot be upgraded, ALL because one Foreign Media Mogul's pockets will be considerably shortened if the NBN goes ahead.

The opposition are so shit scared of the IMMENSE POWER of our Corporate (Foreign) Owned media (one in particular) that they won't simply run with the NBN which will instantly draw votes to them.

I agree with you fully however, in regard to you stating that there should be more independents and smaller parties and that it would be better for DEMOCRACY. You are spot on there.
Bunyip
17th Apr 2013
5:21pm
This is just sad theatre, the NBN is like a piece of furniture on the stage of politics. Does the coalition want to do this at this time? if they did, they'd have to have rocks in their heads because this just puts us deeper into debt.But it is a popular project, and if they didn't go with this, it would be a major stumbling block for the Labor Party to capitalize on. I think education, health and infrastructure are more important. By the way,I understand the glass fibre cables only last 20 years.
Anonymous
17th Apr 2013
5:47pm
Bunyip
I don't know where you have been but the cost of the NBN is merely a loan from the taxpayers and will be paid back by 2034, is a world class system that will put Australian at the top of the world and set to innovate and be SMART. We the Australian people get it for NOT MORE than what we are paying now for our current sad system. Aarrrhhh but the excellent thing about the NBN is that it is UPGRADABLE, dear Bunyip!!!!!

The NFN (opposition proposal) is a $29Billion throw away item because it is out of date as we speak and will need to be replaced within five (5) years BEFORE it has even been installed AND it cannot be UPGRADED. IT HAS TO BE DONE ALL OVER AGAIN.... hence the $29 Billion THROW AWAY ITEM tag. The ugly huge fridge like boxes on every street corner will be removed and the new system would revert to the governments NBN. The NFN will also cost more because the copper wire from the big boxes to your home will cost Telstra about $1Billion a year to maintain and repair..... our cost either directly and/or per taxpayers funds.

Additionally, your statement is TOTALLY INCORRECT we will NOT be in debt because the NBN pays for itself and will actually generate income from about 2034 onwards.

It is an essential component to putting Australia in the forefront of technology and innovation.

To not undertake the NBN when Australia is one of the wealthiest nations in the world is ludicrous.

The Government are also taking huge steps in education, health and infrastructure... that is what the Labor Party are all about. They are however, hamstrung by Howard putting in place a second PRIVILEGED second tier of HEALTH and EDUCATION for the wealthy, that is FUNDED by us the taxpayer. This funding cannot be stopped overnight, so the syphoning of funds into private pockets must continue. Hence, the government are continually trying to JUGGLE the funds available.

None the Less, since the government has been in office, they have improved public schools tenfold which is quite a feat because they were severely run down and in disarray when they took over from the previous government.
niemakawa
17th Apr 2013
3:25pm
Soon as we have a "first past the post" voting system the better. Preferential voting does not work effectively, just look at debacle this has brought. Well as anyone knows it is the prerogative of Government of the day to decide what "medicine" is good for the people. Governments seem to be able to spend countless millions on phoney advertising, whereas legitimate businesses, who provide jobs, have restrictions imposed on on when and how they can advertise their products. The Liquor and Tobacco industries are some examples.
Anonymous
17th Apr 2013
4:46pm
Not true, our voting system is one of the most democratic in the world.

Say... three parties and two draw 33% and one draws 34%.
Soft 33% votes
Firm 33% votes
Extremists 34% votes

Under 'first past the post' 66% of the people will be reigned over by a the Extremists party that only received 34% of the votes. Whereas under preferential, people are asked, if your party doesn't get in who else would you accept to govern you.

Soft 33% plus 18% of Firms preferences & 4% of Extremists preferences = 55%
Firm 33% plus 30% of Softs preferences & 30% of Extremists preference = 93%
Extremists 34% plus 3% of Softs preferences and 15% of Firms preferences = 52%

More people prefer Firm to govern over Soft and Extremists.

Hence, Australians should be looking hard at their preferences and taking time to vote the way they want and not the way the main parties want unless you are really happy with THEIR choice.
ph
17th Apr 2013
3:37pm
this next election is an important one in my mind. The choice is what kind of country do we want in 10 -20 years time. We need to decide if we want to be part of the world wide rise of neo-liberalism or do we want to have a country that cares for the people before the profit. Be very careful people because this is an important issue. Google it if you don't know or understand it. Do not make any decision until you actually understand what this is all about. Remember, a country gets the government it deserves. decide in haste, repent at leisure, your choice, and listen to what Robbie as to say. He is at least paying attention.
Bunyip
17th Apr 2013
4:34pm
Greetings ph. You say "a country gets the government it deserves". I am somewhat cynical about this statement. It has degenerated to how many lies, distortions,who will spend the most money on those on the public nipple, who has the most money to spend on the most efficient media experts to build an unrealistic expectation of a Party. Many can't sort the chaff from the hay. If we look at what we have endured in the past decades, we must be pretty dumb to elect so many deadheads into parliament in state and federal areas. Am I unrealistic to expect honesty and integrity from my elected representatives? How about some genuine innovation, not just window dressing.The conduct of our politicians leaves a lot to be desired.
Do a search on trusted professions, politicians rate nearly the lowest. http://www.australianwomenonline.com/
I believe many politicians do not go into parliament to SERVE their constituents, but for other motives that do not benefit the electorate or the country.
You are right, the next election IS important, but will we still vote for the shifty B's we have always voted for, or for an independent or a new party. Unless votes go away from the old suspect parties,NOTHING will change. A leopard never changes its spots, neither will our old regular parties either. It is our choice.
KerryC
17th Apr 2013
4:01pm
I think the article is biased. NBN is a business and like any other business it needs it's products purchased to ensure that it is worth the value. To do this it must encourage uptake which has been slower than expected in currently serviced areas. Therefore like any other major business ( and it is far larger than many telphony providers) it must advertise to have it's product sales increase especially as new areas come on line. two suburbs near me have been connected in the last couple of months and we are due to switch over in June. If it hadn't been for the ads, I would have let this slip me by. The NBN will make a huge difference in video calls to my family around Australia.

I don't know who this Bunyip character is but given a bunyip is a mythical beast, I think his comments should be treated in the same manner.
niemakawa
17th Apr 2013
4:49pm
Bunyip has made some very valid points.
Bunyip
18th Apr 2013
12:15pm
Yes a Bunyip is a mythical creature, but we don't follow Party political Religions. We don't like being led around by Snake oil salesmen selling lies, deceit and unrealistic expectations that will never be delivered, while all the time selling off Australia. I have been reading some stalwart adherents to Political Party Religious rhetoric on this page...'tis a shame....
Sylvia
17th Apr 2013
4:41pm
We need more Bunyips! I agree with you.
niemakawa
17th Apr 2013
5:01pm
Mussiatate. Yes I understand the mechanics of our preferential voting system, but it is flawed. At the moment we have 3 Independents controlling a minority Government. I also disagree with your premise that the majority of people prefer the current system.
Anonymous
17th Apr 2013
5:26pm
The current situation is not normal, however, it does not really represent that much of a problem compared to the alternative..... the possibility of an extremist fascist party (for example), taking power because it has 34% of the votes.

IF, the people were made aware of how good our current system was in terms of DEMOCRACY, then they would appreciate it a lot more.

In fact as we have a huge concentration of Corporate & Foreign control over our media, this would extrapolate the possibility of a party selected by the Foreign Wealthy Elite to be elected time and time again. Hence, the DEMOCRATIC, FAIR and EQUITABLE running of this country would be EXTREMELY COMPROMISED, if such a system was introduced.

Do you think our Corporate (Foreign) Owned media would allow the people to know this...... I don't think so and neither do you!
Robbie
17th Apr 2013
7:43pm
Macjam, the Liberal party in Australia has ruled in conjunction with the National Party for how many decades? The Liberal Party last rules in it's own right when? Yet the ALP are considered by some to an illegal party because it has to negotiate with the Greens and Independents. Tony Abbott had the same opportunity to negotiate with the Greens and the Independents but had little faith in him. Somehow this is seen as not democratic? First past the post and and non-obligatory voting would result in a less than democratic system, much like in the USA where a small minorioty of the electorate dominate the country as many people feel powerless in participating in that country's governance. I would hate to see Australia slipping into a second rate democracy like that.
aquatrek
20th Apr 2013
1:03pm
The facts at present are: NLP 66% versus ALP 34% since Federation [that is a summation of all the parties as some parties gave up, others merged etc but each had an ideology that was either left or right]. Irrefutable Fact. Factus Dominus. The Good Oil. You get the drift ?
Crazy Horse
22nd Apr 2013
9:53pm
We have exactly what the Founding Fathers envisaged. A stable government formed as a result of having the support of the majority of Members of the House of Representatives that is delivering a very long list of achievements including the only country in the world rated "AAA Stable" by all of the world's leading credit rating agencies.
Unfortunately with a large chunk of the media owned by one selfish individual who is hostile to the ALP, much of this is not getting out to the people.
aquatrek
22nd Apr 2013
10:22pm
yep Crazy Horse: crazy stuff right out of the horses gob. Neigh Neigh Neigh. What is not 'getting out to the people' ? horse shit ? we have the unbiased ABC [hahaha] the SBS and other medium ownership mediums so why the rant re one media owner - are you another Mussitate Marxist whereby in a democracy anyone who has more moola than the lowest social denominator is to be 'brought down' to that lowest level aka tall poppy syndrome ? Founding Fathers smacks of some religious ideology as well. What drugs are you on ?
aquatrek
22nd Apr 2013
10:25pm
ps - I believe that with the crackdown on illegal drugs in sport there are heaps of equine shots now available for low $$ maybe you could do with some injections ?

17th Apr 2013
5:16pm
Bunyip
You are being driven by our Corporate (Foreign) Media. It is NOT in THEIR interests that the current government remain in power.

You have not heard of any of the good things they have done for the people of Australia. Our Prime Minister is regarded HIGHLY overseas and people overseas are more aware of the good things done by this government than we the people are. Australia is top of the world in most aspects and particularly economically, the envy of the WORLD.

The NBN (govt) vs NFN (opposition) gives you a good idea of how good one is compared to the other and the reason the govt are being hammered by our Corporate (Foreign) Owned media - the government are spending too much money on US the people and not filling their own pockets with OUR money.

The wealthy elite own our Corporate (Foreign) Owned media and they do NOT want funds spent on services for the Australian people, they want to syphon off that money into their own pockets. They started with syphoning off the GST revenue into Private Pockets by GIVING (yes, GIVING) Billions of our taxpayers funds to PRIVATE health institutions and PRIVATE school institutions. Providing money for the wealthy and getting taxpayers to pay for THEIR privileged and superior health and education.

They want us the people to vote for a party that is willing to do their bidding and sell off OUR assets, to fill their pockets. They are leaving the USA after turning that wonderful country into a cesspit with their greed.

Example: They want to sell the CSIRO - worth a mint because this institution has invented many wonderful things and holds patents worth billions - one of those being Wi-Fi (they would buy it for next to nothing of what it is worth and syphon off millions upon millions for themselves). They want to close the Institute of Sport (always big money in sport). To disband the ABC (and SBS) and privatise it - no competition at all them....the Corporate (Foreign) Owned media can then feed us total bulldust continuously..... how would we know what was real or not.

We would get the views of the wealthy elite to be taken up as our own.... that is it. No government would be brave enough to oppose them and it will be the start of the decline of our uniquely wonderful Australian DEMOCRACY and eventually our FREEDOM.

Beware of what you are told by our Corporate (Foreign) Media - just look at what has happened to the USA.... we definitely do NOT want to go down that path.
niemakawa
17th Apr 2013
5:28pm
What is so wrong with being wealthy? Your Julia wants to spend billions on the Gonski reforms, to improve the educational standards of everyone. Once educated they will want a slice of the pie ( the bigger the better). So she is in the act as well. Although as any person would know her main goal is to have total control over our daily activities. Maybe you would favour closing our borders, freezing our assets and go to he begging bowl each day to survive. Vote Liberal for salvation.
Anonymous
17th Apr 2013
6:05pm
Macjam

Gee... Australia is one of the wealthiest country in the world and you are talking of begging bowls.

The reason Australian is one of the wealthiest nations in the world is BECAUSE our WEALTH is one of the most DISTRIBUTED in the WORLD.

That is, 90% of the wealth is NOT held in the hands of only 1% of the population, as is the case of the crumbling USA system.

Australia's wealth is distributed amongst the people which makes us STRONG and able to withstand the pressures of the GFC.

We are TRULY an EGALITARIAN nation.

HISTORY tells us that voting Liberal is far from a salvation, it is taking us down the road to USA destruction. Where the people are screwed by the elite wealthy who get more and more of OUR wealth into their own pockets (with the huge and powerful help of our Corporate (Foreign) Owned media).

Look at the Billions of money raised by the GST (a new tax) that everyone pays, irrespective of income earned or held, is simply GIVEN, yes GIVEN, into PRIVATE POCKETS, to provide SUPERIOR services to the PRIVILEGED for THEIR health and education (PAID FROM OUR POCKETS), whilst at the same time RUNNING DOWN the public health and education system.

So, that is what is wrong with YOUR form of wealth Macjam, it belongs to too few.

The wealth we ALL currently have and want to continue with because it is extremely HEALTHY for our nation, is DEMOCRATIC, EGALITARIAN and FAIR.

Who the hell wants to live in ever growing slums, with rats and cockroaches, no education, no health and no hope of ever being able to get a job or a better job NO MATTER YOUR ABILITIES, and with crime that is everyday life. It is not a democratic, egalitarian or fair one and is certainly NOT a healthy nation.
aquatrek
19th Apr 2013
9:00am
Mussitate: I have never ever seen nor heard such a die hard Marxist in all my life !! Oz has been governed 66% NLP and 34% ALP since Federation. That IS why Oz is a great stable country. Your commie countries have all failed and will continue to fail because pure socialism is an unnatural beast. I will still buy you a one way ticket to any socialist country of your choice - and good riddance.
KSS
17th Apr 2013
5:58pm
What's with all the personal attacks, snidey comments, patronising remarks and SHOUTING today? Come on everyone, have your opinion but play nice.
niemakawa
17th Apr 2013
7:22pm
Being too nice achieves little. Play a game to win, that's how the real world operates, regardless of status, wealth, origins etc.
Anonymous
17th Apr 2013
8:16pm
Goodness, Macjam, you are really opening up things up for me to have some real fun with you. I LOVE PLAYING, I can get a bit .... let's just say....pernicious but I will go only as far as you take me Macjam.

Are you from the USA because your sentiments seem to belong there, greedy, ruthless and well ... a bit full on (I was going to start playing straight away but I keep hearing KSS's comment and will restrain myself.... for now).

17th Apr 2013
6:13pm
Just something I need to say.

When I use capitals, it is MERELY to EMPHASISE points especially when there is no bold or underline or italic in this section.

Hence, it is NOT shouting.

I don't think KSS is referring to that but her/his comment did remind me to clarify this point.

17th Apr 2013
6:18pm
Thought this comment worth stating as a stand alone comment because it IS important to be aware of Australia's current position in these times of the world and the chaos and disorder elsewhere and our top notch position in that world.

Our Corporate (Foreign) Owned media do NOT tell us about that, nor about how our PM is highly respected overseas.

The reason Australian is one of the wealthiest nations in the world is BECAUSE our WEALTH is one of the most DISTRIBUTED in the WORLD.

That is, 90% of the wealth is NOT held in the hands of only 1% of the population, as is the case of the crumbling USA system.

Australia's wealth is distributed amongst the people which makes us STRONG and able to withstand the pressures of the GFC.

We are TRULY an EGALITARIAN nation.

HISTORY tells us that voting Liberal is far from a salvation, it is taking us down the road to USA destruction. Where the people are screwed by the elite wealthy who get more and more of OUR wealth into their own pockets (with the huge and powerful help of our Corporate (Foreign) Owned media).

Look at the Billions of money raised by the GST (a new tax) that everyone pays, irrespective of income earned or held, is simply GIVEN, yes GIVEN, into PRIVATE POCKETS, to provide SUPERIOR services to the PRIVILEGED for THEIR health and education (PAID FROM OUR POCKETS), whilst at the same time RUNNING DOWN the public health and education system.

So, that is what is wrong with YOUR form of wealth Macjam, it belongs to too few.

The wealth we ALL currently have and want to continue with because it is extremely HEALTHY for our nation, is DEMOCRATIC, EGALITARIAN and FAIR.

Who the hell wants to live in ever growing slums, with rats and cockroaches, no education, no health and no hope of ever being able to get a job or a better job NO MATTER YOUR ABILITIES, and with crime that is everyday life. It is not a democratic, egalitarian or fair one and is certainly NOT a healthy nation.
Grey Voter
17th Apr 2013
7:10pm
I am indeed horrified to read how much money the Federal Government is spending on advertising the NBN alone. This concern came to roost when only yesterday a government department informed me that to get a place on the dental waiting list for a partial denture, I need to lose my last remaining tooth on the bottom left hand side of my mouth because......"I can still chew some foods!" ......and then , once I get on the waiting list, the average wait is two years. WAKE UP AUSTRALIA.
geomac
17th Apr 2013
7:54pm
Were you horrified at the money the Howard govt spent on advertising the GST and private health subsidy Grey ? It makes the amount spent on the NBN look a pittance in comparison .
Was that govt department state or federal Grey as in Victoria you would be dealing with the state ? I cannot imagine it would be different in any other state . Another question comes to mind , why have you waited till now to apply . Something doesn,t add up as you should go on the waiting list in any case . So are you already registered with your state dental service but have to wait for a partial denture ? I am assuming by your post you have most of your upper and lower right teeth hence the partial denture . How does your state dental service have relevance to NBN information ads ?
Anonymous
17th Apr 2013
8:06pm
It was the OPPOSITION that removed public dental clinics, not this current government.

Even when the coffers were full with GST revenue, the OPPOSITION (then in power) scrapped these public dental clinics but then GAVE BILLIONS to PRIVATE POCKETS to provide a PRIVILEGED and BETTER funded PRIVATE health system for those that could afford it.

The PUBLIC health system was allowed to run down.

Grey Voter

The previous government also spent billions on advertising, getting everyone to actually vote for the GST, an inequitable tax that is extracted from even those that do not have an income!

The current government are only advertising the NBN because they found it necessary to advise the people on the virtues of the NBN because our Corporate (Foreign) Owned media have continually rubbished, told firfies, inaccuracies or twisted facts about the NBN, effectively, they have run a NEGATIVE campaign against the NBN.

Why, you might ask? Something as good as the NBN - an asset for Australians and Australia as a whole, that will last up to 60 or more years because it can be easily upgraded and will put Australian at the top of the world in innovation and technology. The cost of this asset is paid for by about the year 2034 and then will generate revenue, as it is self funding. It will also cost us, the people of Australia, no extra to bring it to our homes, businesses, hospitals, science institutes, education institutes, etc.

The reason a negative campaign has been run by our Corporate (Foreign) Owned media, is because one FOREIGN Media Mogul, in particular, will lose a lot of money, if the NBN goes ahead.

I suppose, according to your philosophy, Grey Voter, that is good enough! We can't have our elite FOREIGN media moguls losing money because they are not innovative or entrepreneurial enough to read the market ahead! Sufficient enough to PLUNGE Australian backwards 20 or so years and instigate a $29 Billion 'throw away' antiquated and substandard system. Good one Grey Voter.
niemakawa
17th Apr 2013
8:52pm
Mussitate,
Play with me, then you play with fire.
Anonymous
17th Apr 2013
10:11pm
Prove it. I love fire, curious substance.
Anonymous
18th Apr 2013
2:03am
Oops, that's a line in a song, isn't it.

Okay, I was so hellbent on pernicious fun that I missed it.

Damn, Macjam! I am going to have to give you the first point.
Nanna52
17th Apr 2013
10:16pm
The continual advertising is completely turning me off the NBN, especially when I check the map and find that there is no plan to introduce it where I live.
niemakawa
17th Apr 2013
10:24pm
Nanna, of course not LABOR does not have a plan, apart from bringing more debt to this Country. The NBN, similar to the Carbon Tax will only bring added costs to everyone. It will not be completed until 2021 apparently, with the usual costs blowouts, who knows what will eventuate. Remember Government is no different to any other commercial enterprise, except it is exempt from the same scrutiny.
Anonymous
17th Apr 2013
11:49pm
Nanna52 - I understand your disappointment that you can't see when you will get the NBN, I would be too. The need to advertise to counteract the NEGATIVE NBN campaign undertaken by our Corporate (Foreign) Owned media is painful to watch - everyone else celebrating the NBN when you are not even close. I'm with you on that!!!

Macjam

NBN Plan: The Government has spent years and years researching, negotiating, and considering a VERY WELL THOUGHT OUT PLAN. The project they have undertaken is one of the biggest infrastructure endeavour in the world. Of course they have a well thought out plan!!!! ....it is the Opposition that do not have a plan in place! Considering the enormity of the NBN undertaking your statement is could be considered by some as rather puerile.

DEBT: Our government has the lowest debt levels of nearly any other country in the world and as such we are the envy of the world. Anyway, private debt is a lot, lot, lot bigger than the government debt - maybe you got them mixed up.

CARBON TAX: Carbon Tax makes POLLUTERS pay for their own pollution or innovate and lower their carbon footprint, with most of us being subsidised - ALL GOOD. The best bit was that the SKY DIDN'T FALL in as PREDICTED BY Opposition, Corporate Owned Media and big industry corporate SPIN. You see Macjam, you talked of "the Carbon Tax WILL only bring added costs to everyone", see how little of a ripple it has caused, YOU MISSED IT! And after all that media, industry and opposition SPIN too!!!

NBN: This sort of humongous infrastructure is 'unknown' territory and considering this, has, so far been undertaken relatively well. Being RELATIVELY on time and maybe just a tad over budget, so far...... don't believe all the tardy spin you read/hear from the Corporate (Foreign) Owned media - they are so frantic to stop the NBN they will do or say anything and as they sit on their own disciplinary board, they can get away with it!

SCRUTINY: Corporations are RARELY subject to scrutiny???????? We have seen how good audits are, the auditors report that the figures add up and thats about it. Examples: ENRON prior to the GFC and recently ALL of the Banks in the USA, and many other corporations that have failed big time.
Grey Voter
17th Apr 2013
10:59pm
Great stuff from the defenders of the indefensible who remain embedded in the past with a miopic view of the future.

Come election date, the Labour Party already in tatters, will plunge into long term oblivion with the help of the strong grey vote and the glaring futility of white elephants like the NBN
geomac
17th Apr 2013
11:59pm
I,m grey and balding but no way could I vote for Abbotts libs or Warrens nats . Embedded in the past , must be talking about the opposition front bench . Hey Grey could you answer those anomalies in your post about dental problem please , curious .
Anonymous
18th Apr 2013
12:17am
Grey Voter

NBN:
The NBN is far from a white elephant.... that is OLD Corporate (Foreign) Owned media SPIN.... with a solid plan in place it has already assured its success... Australia has INTERNATIONAL ACCLAIM for its NBN undertaking which is set to put Australian on top of the world with this innovative technology. Anyone that supports it, is certainly NOT myopic.

What of the NFN - the oppositions proposal, that is a $29 BILLION - THROW AWAY ITEM, that will be outdated before it is started and we will have to undertake Labor's NBN in five years time anyway. This is because, the NFN (opposition proposal) CAN'T be UPGRADED.... so you just throw it away .... the whole $29 BILLION ..... and start all over again. VERY INTELLIGENT USE of taxpayers dollars.

I just realised.....sorry Grey Voter.... you were talking about the NFN the opposition's proposal being a WHITE ELEPHANT and a very expensive one. SORRY! You are correct, there is absolutely NO doubt about that. Now, supporting the opposition's NFN proposal is myopic... I am with you on that one.

ELECTION:
With the way our Corporate (Foreign) Owned Media have CARTE BLANCHE (they sit on their own disciplinary board) to print or say whatever they want and to wage a negative campaign against the Labor Party, continuously without taking a breathe, it is understandable that Labor may not get in at the next election.

However, that does not mean that the best party won, it just means that the our DEMOCRACY has been COMPROMISED which is more than just sad for our EGALITARIAN society.

With the Corporate (Foreign) Owned Media being in charge of this country, in no time the corporations will have syphoned off the wealth and Australia will no longer be EGALITARIAN, we will be like the USA and on a downhill slide - the wealth that is currently spread out, making Australian STRONG and an egalitarian nation, will polarise to the wealthy.

Like the USA this polarisation of wealth will mean DISGUSTING PUBLIC education, health and services, crime, poverty, unemployment, ever widening slums.

Why do you think these wealthy parasites from other nations are flocking to Australia... because they have STUFFED up their own country with their excessive GREED and Australia is now RIPE for the taking.
Misty
18th Apr 2013
12:34am
Last time I checked our debt level, 2 weeks ago, we were the country with the 3rd lowest debt, way way less then the USA, England Germany, only 2 other countries had debt lower then ours.
Crazy Horse
22nd Apr 2013
10:04pm
Exactly right Misty. Australia is in a very strong economic position with a very small national debt. We are the only country in the world rated "AAA Stable" by all four of the world's leading credit rating agencies (3 Western and 1 Chinese). Debt used to build infrastructe etc is not bad. How did most of you get your house, car etc?
aquatrek
19th Apr 2013
9:04am
NLP 6 versus ALP 4 - the sooner that the red team take Mussitate's keyboard away from him the better - his fingers must be getting shorter day by day
aquatrek
19th Apr 2013
2:35pm
Hot of the Press:
The wholesale price for the 1Gbps service will be $150 a month, though retailers will add a margin to this. NBN Co will also launch two other high speed services - 250Mbps and 500 Mbps - by December.

The average person who does regular internet activities is probably not going to notice much difference today,'' Professor Tucker said. ''Where I think it will make a difference is in small businesses.''

Independent telecommunications analyst Paul Budde said right now only about 5 per cent of people, mainly small businesses, would be able to make use of the increased speed. But what about Grannies downloading of those naughty videos ?

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/government-it/nbn-customers-set-for-worldleading-download-speeds-to-happen-by-end-of-the-year-20130418-2i32b.html#ixzz2QseCnMsx

the NBN White Elephant was born an albino with big floppy ears and very pinkish rimmed reddish socialist eyes
geomac
22nd Apr 2013
7:05pm
aqua
My present ISP has NBN plans exactly the same price as I,m presently paying for the same amount of data but faster speed . I will no longer need a landline for web access so save on phone rental . The only white elephant I see in this is the coalition plan as it will leave those already connected with a service and those not having to fork out 7 grand to be the same . Apparently the lib plan will also require 600,000 cabinets and even then need upgrading anyway . After the 10 billion black hole in their 2010 costings who can believe their 29 billion price tag ?
aquatrek
22nd Apr 2013
7:24pm
who can believe that Oz faces umpteen years of paying off massive amounts of debt for such a pi..y small country - why ? the ALP 'spending' its way out of their own troublemaking - they couldnt organize a pi..up in a brewery. NLP 66% of governance and the ALP 34% of governance since Federation - therein lies the story and the facts - its overtime for the ALP to just pi.. off yet again. Then the trouble will really begin yet again for the NLP - attempting to sort out the pi.. mess that the ALP have left behind. Mind, you stay safe and warm now in your red sheeted bed.
geomac
23rd Apr 2013
9:00pm
You really are a strange one aqua . You seem to have no grasp of Oz history . There was no liberal party till the forties . The Nationals aka Country party have been in many forms and even now are not a solid block with one platform or ideology . There was no country party at federation aqua and no liberals . Check it out with your bankrupt bud Pickering . Pickering knows everything , everything about fleecing punters that is .
geomac
23rd Apr 2013
9:05pm
Funny thing , bought burgundy sheets at Coles today . ooohh coincidence or has aqua ESP ? Actually I like dark sheets rather than white or pale colours .
aquatrek
23rd Apr 2013
9:33pm
Geomac: if you bothered to get up of your arse and actually look at the political history of OZ - LIKE I HAVE - then you will see that taking every single party into account that functioned post Federalism then they ALL have an ideology either left or right. So if you gather them into those two categories the answer is 66% NLP and 34% ALP. Do you want me to come over and rub your nose in it so that you comprehend - just whimper if not otherwise I am on my way. As for the Pickering reference - he has balls whereas I doubt that you do.
geomac
23rd Apr 2013
10:04pm
Touchy bugger aren,t you aqua ? Seems apt you make mention of cajones being a Pickering acolyte . Must be your thing cartoons with genitalia . Well Pickering must have no conscience hiding behind bankruptcy to avoid manning up . Then again morals and ethics were never his bag . All piss and wind aqua , bit like yourself . I suggest you aim a bit higher on the gene pool for someone to defend . Someone with at least normal standards would be a good start .
aquatrek
23rd Apr 2013
10:13pm
typical nutjob - yep thats you geomac - I like your lowercase 'g' - suits you - and as usual you dont even have the intellect to actually look at what you challenged me over - just hot air
geomac
23rd Apr 2013
10:39pm
Ha ha said the clown
aquatrek
24th Apr 2013
2:31pm
The Hot Air Clown story:
A clown in a hot air balloon realized he was lost. He lowered his altitude and spotted a man in a boat below. He shouted to him, "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him an hour ago, but I don't know where I am." The man consulted his portable GPS and replied, "You're in a hot air balloon, approximately 10m above ground elevation of 1012 m above sea level.
You are at 31 degrees, 14.97 minutes south latitude and 100 degrees, 49.09 minutes west longitude. The clown rolled his eyes and said, "You must be a Liberal Coalition supporter.
"I am," replied the man. "How did you know?"
"Well," answered the clown balloonist, "everything you told me is technically correct.
But I have no idea what to do with your information, and I'm still lost.
Frankly, you've not been much help to me."
The man smiled and responded, "You must be a Labor supporter."
"I am," replied the clown balloonist. "How did you know?"
"Well," said the man, "you don't know where you are -- or where you are going.
You've risen to where you are, due to a large quantity of hot air.
You made a promise you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem.
You're in exactly the same position you were in before we met, but somehow, now it's my fault."
geomac
24th Apr 2013
10:00pm
Ha ha said the clown , words from a song .
A long joke adapted for Oz ie liberal republican . A liberal like you aqua would not be helpful and more than likely take pot shots at the balloon with a slug gun . As for relaying helpful information , thats fantasy . Like Abbotts parental scheme a sick joke . In the USA that would be a republican with the balloon . Pickering steal that joke from a yank blog aqua ?
aquatrek
24th Apr 2013
10:15pm
the guy with the GPS had a slug gun but had run out of ALP slugs - you know - the slimey runny type like the Vic police investigation into one Juliar and Co for fraud. Now Combeys has been disclosed as a fraud promoting a mining training centre directly in opposition to the ALP policy of closing down coal mines along with the Slipper farce and whats his name cab charges for sex visits moron. What a sick motley crew - and you would want to vote for that calibre of personnel - makes you as sick and as low as them.
geomac
24th Apr 2013
10:23pm
Thats more like the Pickering style aqua , well done . your master might pat your head as a sign of approval , acolytes like that personal touch . Slugs , very apt . Pickering draws them and is one . I,ll refrain from commenting on his followers , too easy .
aquatrek
24th Apr 2013
10:43pm
Hot of the Press:
The wholesale price for the 1Gbps service will be $150 a month, though retailers will add a margin to this. NBN Co will also launch two other high speed services - 250Mbps and 500 Mbps - by December.
The average person who does regular internet activities is probably not going to notice much difference today,'' Professor Tucker said. ''Where I think it will make a difference is in small businesses.'' Independent telecommunications analyst Paul Budde said right now only about 5 per cent of people, mainly small businesses, would be able to make use of the increased speed. But what about Grannies downloading of those naughty videos ? Read more:
http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/government-it/nbn-customers-set-for-worldleading-download-speeds-to-happen-by-end-of-the-year-20130418-2i32b.html#ixzz2QseCnMsx
the NBN White Elephant was born an albino with big floppy ears and very pinkish rimmed reddish socialist eyes.

This forum is amazing in that every time a verified sourced comment is put forward the ALP rusted on nut jobs never ever respond with any repudiating facts to counter what has been put forward.
The ALP rusted on nut jobs, like geomac, therefore kill off any debate whatsoever. Then they start the personal attack, just like Juliar and her mysoginist rant against a man happily married with three loving daughters. The ALP have reached the very bottom of the political sludge barrel and until the barrel is washed out with disinfectant the stench of the sludge remains.
geomac
25th Apr 2013
12:16am
I gave the addy of my ISP aqua with same prices for NBN as I presently get for ADSL . You put out a figure as if its the only figure and I supply an addy that gives the full range available to me on NBN when its available . That aqua says it all , you cherry pick and I don,t . Very odd you talking about personal attacks , surprised your not embarrassed . Nah lol no way , beyond your ability .
aquatrek
25th Apr 2013
3:32am
Apparently you cant read geomac. Quote 'You put out a figure as if its the only figure'. Unquote. Now where did I say that - anywhere ? I put up an article URL and comments made by others from that URL. Another rusted on nutjob strategy is to put spin on others comments. Juliar and Co are experts at it and you have been brainwashed so easily and do exactly the same. That is why a debate on here is pointless. If you want to discuss, refute, counter argue any of the content that I posted then why dont you do that - otherwise just shut up.
niemakawa
20th Apr 2013
1:34pm
Aquatek. The good oil. Yes I am right so to speak. Being right means giving opportunity, whereas the Left squanders it, then plunder the so called "rich" for revenge. The best thing anyone can do is to get off their backsides, educate themselves and work hard. If you don't then accept the consequences and stop blaming those that get on with life and create their wealth and then expect these people to bail out those that rely on Government handouts to maintain their "lifestyle". Labor have never produced anything positive for the "WHOLE" Nation. Long live freedom and the Liberal/Coalition.
aquatrek
20th Apr 2013
1:40pm
Study shows UK spends a quarter of online time on social networks 18th April 2013
http://www.broadbandchoice.co.uk/news/study-shows-uk-spends-a-quarter-of-online-time-on-social-networks-801573288/
And Oz is spending $100 BILLION to let Granny in Tassy Facebook with Granddaughter Alice in the Alice !!
Such foresight by our esteemed leaders.
Abby
21st Apr 2013
2:56pm
The waste of millions of dollars on advertising is money that could be well spent on other items of need like returning removal cataract services back to the seniors which ALP had removed off the list in 2007.

There is a also a problem not enough average people are signing up to NBN where it is available. Government and Business hook up to it as they do not have to pay for it, hence such a low take up.

To resolve this issue the Government plans to force people to take it up " Homes in the nominated areas that do not take up a connection to the NBN will no longer have a fixed line phone service as of May 2014."
Financial Review.

Not all pensioners have a mobile, the cost of NBN may be prohibitive and hence will leave them without a phone.
geomac
22nd Apr 2013
7:11pm
Howard spent 2 billion dollars on ads Abby while cutting funding for health . Why should anyone be without a phone ?
Abby this site should help with any queries you may have .
http://www.nbn.gov.au/frequently-asked-questions/
Abby
23rd Apr 2013
6:15am
Not enough people tare taking up the option of NBN so the Government plans to force people to take it up " Homes in the nominated areas that do not take up a connection to the NBN will no longer have a fixed line phone service as of May 2014."
Financial Review.
Crazy Horse
22nd Apr 2013
10:08pm
The so called "massive debt" is a fiction beaten up by the conservatives and the hostile media. In fact Australia has one of the lowests debts of any OECD country.
Abby
23rd Apr 2013
6:19am
Not for long with the continued wastage that is hapenning. We used to be in a good position before.
aquatrek
23rd Apr 2013
8:33am
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/australia-government-budget.png?s=ehbbar&d1=19790101&d2=20130430&type=area
Since 1979 the ALP have created huge deficits each time that they are chosen to govern. It takes approx 5 yrs for the NLP to repay the debt each time. The ALP in these economic times have taken a huge risk = foolhardy. Is that a way to run an economy ? Keating even commented way back that Oz could end up being a 'banana republic'. If the ALP remain in government we will all be selling red bananas.
Bunyip
23rd Apr 2013
9:34am
The philosophy of running up massive debts by incompetent governments is a Godsend for the criminal international bankers...they LOVE this philosophy- we pay more interest instead of using the money for health, law and order or education...and we put our children and grandchildren into debt. We only have to look what has happened in Europe & the US, or are we so stupid we want to follow this model- or are we subscribing to the put your head in the sand principle. We need more real independents and another political party or 2 to get some sanity into our politics. The $$ wasted is our money, the debt is OUR debt and we, or more correctly, the following generations debt if we can't pay for it. If the debt becomes too high, those of us who are retired will find that the government will not be able to afford to increase pensions, cut health and services etc- because too much money will be used to pay interest. Read what is happening in Europe, how their society is being severely disrupted.
aquatrek
23rd Apr 2013
10:22am
TA for that rational viewpoint Bunyip. Interest as we all know is compounding i.e. interest over time is paid on the previous interest owing - international interest rates are not flat rate fixed - they are compounding. That is why there is now a prediction that Oz will have deficit govt budgets for much longer than in the past. The socialist[communist] ideologists dont care about that at all - as the population ages there will be less govt revenue - more costs especially in health and pensions. Oz has a close to zero population growth rate [1.7%] http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/3101.0
and that 'compounds' the revenue issue. The worlds 2nd best treasurer will amaze us all as he pulls fluffy almost dead rabbits out of his magicians hat with the next budget [in surplus promise - what a farce]
Abby
23rd Apr 2013
11:26am
aquatrek

If labor keep going we will not even have bananas for sale LOL

It will be a multi billion deficit that will get pulled out of the magician's hat - he is lucky he was able to make a few grabs on the super, savings and private health fund.
geomac
26th Apr 2013
1:57am
Private health fund ? Is that the same private health that gets a subsidy from the govt. of 30% costing over 3 billion and rising ? The subsidy that was supposed to keep a lid on rising costs and relieve the burden on public hospitals . Every year private health goes up above the CPI in step with private schools . The subsidy should be scrapped altogether .
Abby
26th Apr 2013
4:03pm
Geoff
I guess you will not understand it (and I hope you never do) until Australian pensioners get the living standards of Greece
Bunyip
23rd Apr 2013
11:35am
Thanks aquatrec, We don't appear to have too many "statesmen", in politics, men and women who have rock hard integrity, vision, and have a vision for the future that inspires us to achieve greatness for ourselves and our country. I am tired of being manipulated, led by the nose like spoils 7 year olds -being fed patently obvious lies, by lazy self indulgent and in some cases crooked politicians. But, and I don't mean to be nasty, if you read some of the comments on this page, many do sup on this B/S, unable to discern what is FACT and what is absolute garbage. It only depends what Political religion you belong to.....and then everything from the opposing religious party is a lie....sigh
aquatrek
23rd Apr 2013
11:54am
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/farewell-to-good-times-somethings-gotta-give-20130422-2iad7.html.
I dont respect Garnaut at all as he sits on the Ok Tedi board and that Co has a total disregard for the PNG environment yet his comments in that article seem to have a futuristic very dangerous tone to them. Fingers Crossed.
Bunyip
23rd Apr 2013
12:19pm
as far as the NBN, I live on the Northern outskirts of Brisbane, and we are on the 3 years, or more likely the never never plan. Just looking at the map, it looks promising, but when you zoom in, there is very little done..some in progress,some on the 3 year plan and vast areas that are blank. Cost doesn't even come into it for many, many may not even get it, many of us will be pushing up daises before this farce is finished. I believe we need to upgrade facilities at our exchanges, our access is throttled way down during peak periods now. How could we possible get lightning fast access when we are being restricted now by exchanges that can't keep the internet connections at published speeds. I would be happy with what I pay for now,if they could supply access at the published speed, instead of this "expensive pie in the sky"rubbish. I wonder whose mate is getting this contract???? and how many useless consultants got a very handsome handout to recommend this??? Just shows you, it's who you know, and how crooked you are.
Misty
23rd Apr 2013
12:21pm
Well Abby all the econamists say governments should run with some debt and not be aiming for a surplice all the time and so far it is working with our economy, are you all forgetting the GFC crisis that the world went through?,I think you are as Australia has come through this much better then any other country in the developed world, the Libs would have given tax cuts to the wealthy which would not have helped the rest of Australians and then maybe we would be in a recession just like GB has announced today that they are.
aquatrek
23rd Apr 2013
2:00pm
just for you and you alone Misty
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/australia-government-budget.png?s=ehbbar&d1=19790101&d2=20130430&type=area
Abby
23rd Apr 2013
8:38pm
"The Grattan Institute's assessment comes as Treasurer Wayne Swan confirms the budget has taken a $7.5 billion hit since the midyear update in October.

Australia faces a decade of budget deficits with the annual total set to pass $60 billion in 2023 unless governments take tough action to "share the pain", an expert panel has warned.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/a-decade-of-deficits-forecast-20130421-2i8hh.html#ixzz2RESjmEH1
Bunyip
23rd Apr 2013
4:48pm
Hi Misty, I believe a Country should run like a well run business, you have a business plan and you balance your budget...you plan to grow your business, otherwise you go broke- like they are in Europe and the US. I looked up our balance of trade on the site aquatec has put up, if you still want to go further into debt with such a poor balance of trade since mid 08 then you will have a very poor appreciation of economics. We are spending more than we are producing, something has to change, someone has to get a BIG dose of smarts and make some big changes to turn around our situation.This can't continue indefinitely.Otherwise we will finish up as a banana republic without any bananas because we have monkeys playing with the levers of our economy. I have no faith in either of our 2 party political party system. As far as the so called GFC crisis, when the biggest customer of our mining industry is China, we were insulated to a certain extent, but look at the government expenditure and the increase in manpower in the overpaid underworked public services- maybe this was more of a crisis? We are so over governed, by incompetents. Unfortunately our opposition leaves a little to be desired too. Heaven help us!!
struth
23rd Apr 2013
6:10pm
Found this comment re NBN which certainly looks economical compared to existing costs:
A post I came across re: NBN
"... Hi Guys. I`ve got NBN on in Kiama. As well as being super fast and cheap, there`s another advantage with NBN. This is the disconnection of the old telstra copper phone line, and with it the "line rental charge each month is dropped. So even before getting NBN, I`ve saved $30 each month. I now use a VOIP phone as my home phone. {Monthly phone bills are usually around $10 - another saving} As far as NBN charge goes, I`m on a $40 a month plan and get 25000 speed with a download limit of 50GB. In saying that, I`m considering changing over to the 100,000 speed with a download limit of 75GB. This deal is only $50 a month.
So just to summarise and compare. I used to pay $30 a month phone line rental, $68 a month for ADSL2 with 12GB limit and around a $100 per month phone bill. Total approx $200 each month. Now I pay $0 for line rental, $40 a month for superfast NBN and around $10 a month for phone/ VOIP calls. A total of approx $50 a month. SO NBN HAS SAVED ME AROUND $150 EACH MONTH"
Misty
24th Apr 2013
11:21pm
Manufacturing and retail will never be the same again with the advent of the Internet, I buy most of my grandchildren's clothes , books, toys etc over the Internet, as well as jewellery and personel items. It will not change, no matter who gets into power at the next election, this way of shopping is here to stay. Department and clothing stores in a way have only themselves to blame for poor sales, the clothes they import are shoddy and poorly made and the shops are crowded to the hilt, a person doesn't know where to start amongst this rubbish that they stock now I just turn around and walk out again. Changing governments won't change this.
Radish
25th Apr 2013
10:53am
how come so few have taken up the NBN even when it is available to them...what would be the reason? anyone know?
geomac
25th Apr 2013
11:09am
Being on existing contracts could be one Radish . I,m not on contract so if the NBN was available to me I would take it . If on a contract bundled with mobile etc it might depend if their present ISP is offering a simple continuation of service or a new arrangement . I,m not in a position to know for sure . Some people are wary of new stuff or fear having modems or computers that are too old for new technology . I,m tired of paying phone rental for a phone I don,t need but the line is my source of ADSL .
aquatrek
25th Apr 2013
11:21am
I just went over to TPG for everything: ADSL2+ 20 Gb, l/l phone, mobile for $55 a month. Took my own router and phones. I will be darn surprised if NBN can offer the same ? if and whenever it may or may not arrive at my unit wall on the back of the albino elephant.
geomac
25th Apr 2013
11:17pm
aqua Why don,t you check out TPG site to see what they are offering in regard to NBN ? My ISP has the prices but my home is not hooked up as yet , listed for late 2013 early 2014 from memory . If my regional ISP has prices/plans I,d be surprised if a bigger one like TPG didn,t .
aquatrek
26th Apr 2013
6:54am
geomac: you take the cake - what am I - your personal servant ? ok so here is the URL
http://www.tpg.com.au/products Fibre only priced for business
aquatrek
26th Apr 2013
7:15am
just for you geomac cause you are a lazy sod
http://www.tpg.com.au/products_services/south_brisbane.php?/pricing/homephone
$60 pm +$750 set up but you get a fibre modem - so what pensioner is going to just cough up nearly $1,000 to get awesome download speed when for 95% of home owners ADSL2+ provides enough for email, internet etc ? = REALITY instead of all your bullshit
geomac
26th Apr 2013
11:37am
No mention of NBN on tpg aqua that I could see /


Internet
Fibre Optic Broadband
Ethernet Broadband
Standalone ADSL2+
Naked ADSL2+
Broadband Off-Net
Premium SHDSL

They have fibre optic but no mention of NBN and thats only to a business premise not domestic . I repeat no NBN prices listed .
Very disappointed aqua as I thought despite your bombastic rants you wouldn,t resort to lieberal misinformation . You are indeed in the Pickering mould .
aquatrek
29th Apr 2013
11:55am
why do you blatantly LIE geomac ? http://www.tpg.com.au/products has a link to 'Fibre Optic Broadband' but you didnt bother to click on it because you are a lazy intellect deprived LIAR - when you click on the link it takes you to another web page that has a banner all about a $658.90 pm charge and in the small print it say a $1098.90 installation fee in only certain places - available only in limited TPG on-net buildings. !! Then it says 'Call us on 1300 365 313 to discuss your requirements and confirm your serviceability' - it is ONLY for business you absolute lying moronic fool !!
Radish
25th Apr 2013
12:08pm
thanks for the replies. In the dim dark recesses of my mind I thought I read somewhere also that you would need to have cabling put into your home as well is this correct or am I hallucinating LOL.
aquatrek
25th Apr 2013
2:11pm
cabling goes to your home wall - there are major issues with blocks of units - just how will all of the copper be removed [highly unlikely] - then it is terminated at a location presumably of your choice if it is possible but dont expect NBN to run it down to your Grannyflat down the backyard where Granny is patiently waiting to download 5 movies a night.
My partner lives in a brand new high rise in an inner major city suburb and the NBN doesnt say when it will be delivered nor has the block been constructed with any allowance for fibre optic. Meanwhile she is looking at forking out $299 to get a new land line connection. What a mess.
Misty
25th Apr 2013
12:20pm
Did you all re ad Struth's comment?, $50.00 a month is all it costs him.
aquatrek
26th Apr 2013
7:00am
under ADSL2+ home phone bundle: $39.99 for the ADSL2+ 20 Gb landline + phone, $15.00 for a non-contract mobile plan with $550 calls - landline call costs at standard rates = $55.00 pm base
http://www.tpg.com.au/products
niemakawa
25th Apr 2013
12:30pm
The NBN will be rolled out Country wide before the posts on this subject stop.
Misty
25th Apr 2013
1:01pm
Ditto.
aquatrek
25th Apr 2013
5:03pm
if wishes were horses then peasants would ride - an NBN analogy
Radish
25th Apr 2013
4:45pm
construction is still to commence in my area and I doubt it will be here for at least 6 months but I hope I am wrong.
aquatrek
26th Apr 2013
7:12am
http://www.whistleout.com.au/Broadband/National-Broadband-Network-NBN-Plans
http://www.tpg.com.au/products_services/south_brisbane.php?/pricing/homephone $60 pm + $750 set up
geomac
26th Apr 2013
3:00pm
aqua Your tpg URL does not work and in any case have no NBN plans for domestic customers .

http://www.tpg.com.au/products does work .
The whistleout URL however does work and dispels your inaccurate statements regarding costs so thanks for providing that info .
http://www.whistleout.com.au/Broadband/National-Broadband-Network-NBN-12Mbps-Plans
Those plans start out at $29 per month for 15GB and no 24 month contract . As with all plans etc prices go up depending on amount of data 20Gb , 50Gb and so on and speed . Then you have contracts or pay per month without a contract . So as I have previously stated same as now but for me no phone rental and faster speed .
geomac
26th Apr 2013
11:45am
aqua is full of it
just for you geomac cause you are a lazy sod
http://www.tpg.com.au/products_services/south_brisbane.php?/pricing/homephone
$60 pm +$750 set up but you get a fibre modem - so what pensioner is going to just cough up nearly $1,000 to get awesome download speed when for 95% of home owners ADSL2+ provides enough for email, internet etc ? = REALITY instead of all your bullshit
Here is the site and no mention of above for domestic users and no mention of NBN .
http://www.tpg.com.au/products
No mention of NBN as I said so aqua talks through his hat . This is the person that rants like a demented fool and expects some to believe his rubbish . As they say empty vessels make the most sound .
Check it out , no NBN offers on the site for domestic customers .
Radish
26th Apr 2013
3:42pm
I am not prepared to pay more than $35 a month for internet and I would suspect most others would not want to do so either. I am very happy with the speeds I have now anyway for what I do on here.
Abby
26th Apr 2013
4:19pm
I agree with you radish
The NBN has very little to offer for the home user - Big business and Government will be the only ones to benefit at the Taxpayer's cost.

Unfortunately you will be forced by the Government to join up to NBN as otherwise you will not have a phone - ALP has already introduced that ruling.

The current advertising is an ABSOLUTE WASTE especially when over 95% of the population is UNABLE yo connect. It is just a Taxpyer funded ALP hype to make out it is doing something when it is behind schedule.
geomac
26th Apr 2013
4:34pm
Who is asking you to pay more than $35 a month Radish ? NBN starts at 29 bucks for 15GB .
Abby how is information advertising a waste when its such a small amount compared to various other governments , state and federal , of past years ? Your comment about people able to connect is hard to understand as you cannot wave a wand and everyone is connected . On that logic the Snowy should have been done in a couple of months and the Sydney Harbour bridge the same .
Telstra has an agreement with the NBN and shareholders are well pleased . Nobody will be forced to join up to the NBN and the phone thing I don,t understand . Taskid has NBN and a phone so maybe I am misunderstanding your comment . Perhaps you could elaborate please ?
aquatrek
29th Apr 2013
11:39am
NBN starts at 29 bucks for 15GB ? by what provider may we all ask oh wise sage of stuff all - you just pluck crap outa thin air !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Misty
26th Apr 2013
6:05pm
Yes Abby tell us what you really mean.
Abby
26th Apr 2013
11:20pm
"All fixed phone lines and internet services connecting 2900 properties in Aitkenvale and Mundingburra will be shut off and residents will be forced to switch to the NBN.

Telstra customers paying as little as $29.95 a month would be forced to take up an NBN plan for a minimum of $80. It comes despite a slow take-up rate, with about 73 per cent of residents in the trial area opting not to connect to NBN services.

Residents in the NBN zone have raised concerns that companies are not communicating well enough with their customers when transitioning them to the NBN, leaving them confused and disenchanted.

NBN Co, the government-owned company building the $37.4 billion network, this week announced about 25,000 Telstra customers in 15 areas across Australia will be forced to switch to the NBN's fibre network in the 18 months from November 23.

North Queensland-based LNP Senator Ian Macdonald said the move was an unnecessary imposition on householders.

"There will be no freedom of choice at all," he said.

"Not content with forcing people to use the outrageously expensive national broadband network for their internet access, the Gillard Labor Government is now admitting that they will also be forcing Australians to use the NBN for their telephone services."
geomac
27th Apr 2013
12:03am
THOUSANDS of residents trialling the National Broadband Network have been guaranteed they won't pay more for phone-only plans when the old copper network is switched off in 18 months.

It comes after NBN Co, the government-owned company building the $27.4 billion network, announced that all residents in the Mundingburra and Aitkenvale trial area would be forced to switch to the NBN's fibre network within 18 months from November 23.

Cairns-based Labor senator Jan McLucas said residents on voice-only plans would not have to pay more when the switch took place.

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2012/10/15/367828_news.html
When the switch to the NBN happens in 18 months, voice-only plans will be available for the equivalent cost to what people are paying now," she said.

"Telstra also has a licence condition that ensures measures for low-income earners, which includes the $22.95 home line budget plan, are kept in place."
Misty
27th Apr 2013
12:04am
I am going to check with my local member on Monday to see if the statements made by NBN CO, as stated here, are correct.
geomac
27th Apr 2013
12:18am
“When you change these policies, it takes a hell of a long time to get these results to start to happen,” Hackett said.

“Three years would be the bottom estimate of what it’s going to take to start deploying fibre-to-the-node.”

In the end, the decision may be “entirely at the whim of Telstra,” because the Coalition would have to renegotiate the contract the big telco signed with Labor, said Hackett.

“Telstra will evaluate changing its existing deal based on whether it makes business sense for shareholders,” he said.

That may be a difficult case to make becaus
article
http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/458559/coalition_nbn_do-over_won_t_fast_cheap_says_internode_hackett/?utm_medium=rss&utm_source=tagfeed
Private sector couldn't build NBN: Vodafone CEO
Having “one company, one entity, one government taking the position to be able to roll this out and insist on it being a wholesale model [is] the only way it actually works.”

http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/458429/private_sector_couldn_t_build_nbn_vodafone_ceo/?utm_medium=rss&utm_source=tagfeed
geomac
27th Apr 2013
12:22am
The new NBN fibre optic cable replaces the existing copper network which wasn't originally built with the internet in mind. If your home or business is to be connected to the NBN by fibre, existing landline phone and ADSL internet over the copper network, and Telstra and Optus cable internet services will be permanently switched off progressively after the NBN becomes available in your area1. This means you'll need to move your existing services to the NBN before final switch off date to keep using landline internet, phone and other services.

1 Services not replaced by the NBN include TransACT, OptiComm, some Telstra Velocity services and others. For a full list please visit www.nbnco.com.au/switchoff or call us on 1800 687 626.
http://www.nbnco.com.au/get-an-nbn-connection/index.html
geomac
27th Apr 2013
12:35am
Abby can you get analog tv reception after your area has been switched to digital ? No one is losing a phone service and nobody has lost television reception . No one is forced to use the NBN for internet and they can get a phone service for the same price . Are you suggesting people have both copper and fibre when Telstra is removing the copper and providing the NBN with its infrastructure ? Telstra isn,t going to maintain the copper network so how do you suggest the old network be maintained ? Logic would suggest you would favour having analog and digital towers and maintenance of them both if we carry your concern further . On a purely economic and efficiency basis what is your concern ?
geomac
27th Apr 2013
1:12am
Abby
Nearly forgot , thanks for replying to my query regarding phone , appreciated .
Radish
27th Apr 2013
7:44am
it is my understanding that once the copper network is gone the only way will be through the NBN or just use a wireless connection for the phone..i.e. mobile phone.
aquatrek
27th Apr 2013
11:29am
http://www.tpg.com.au/products

despite geomac's senile rants this link does work fine - its called copy and paste into your internet browser address line and press enter - a skill that geomac apparently lacks then the next URL below works also - TPG dont publish any home NBN prices and ask that you call them on 1300 365 313

http://www.tpg.com.au/products_services/south_brisbane.php?/pricing/homephone
where it quite clearly states that a 200Gb plan will cost $59.98 with a $739.76 setup fee that includes a fibre modem

http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/tpg-reveals-69-99-unlimited-nbn-plan/ try this one
http://nbncompared.com.au/ and this one
http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2012/11/planhacker-ultimate-nbn-guide-november-2012/
the one above seems to have the most comprehensive list as of Nov 2012

I am not like geomac - a rustedon nutjob ALP stooge who espouses anything that the ALP/NBN does as a must have brilliant ideological idea - thats why the ALP are spending heaps on advertising but never seem to be able to provide the information that everyone would like - especially in straightforward layman terms so we can all understand. The problem has always been that even though the infrastructure costs have ballooned out to nearly $100 BILLION the market place fibre providers are all jockeying to see just what will return them a profit - and hence charge the customer. I have been with TPG since they started and they are being very quite on what the costs will be - yet the Brisbane URL above gives some indication. Dont forget that each plan I have seen is just a monthly download costing - not what the fibre modem will cost and any extra cabling that you may need in the home.I am just attempting to find out myself and inform all on here.

ps - Some blogs state that after being on NBN fibre for 18 months the copper will be pulled.

Maybe Drew can throw some more light on this white 'hot' elephant sized topic ?
aquatrek
27th Apr 2013
11:29am
http://www.tpg.com.au/products

despite geomac's senile rants this link does work fine - its called copy and paste into your internet browser address line and press enter - a skill that geomac apparently lacks then the next URL below works also - TPG dont publish any home NBN prices and ask that you call them on 1300 365 313

http://www.tpg.com.au/products_services/south_brisbane.php?/pricing/homephone
where it quite clearly states that a 200Gb plan will cost $59.98 with a $739.76 setup fee that includes a fibre modem

http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/tpg-reveals-69-99-unlimited-nbn-plan/ try this one
http://nbncompared.com.au/ and this one
http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2012/11/planhacker-ultimate-nbn-guide-november-2012/
the one above seems to have the most comprehensive list as of Nov 2012

I am not like geomac - a rustedon nutjob ALP stooge who espouses anything that the ALP/NBN does as a must have brilliant ideological idea - thats why the ALP are spending heaps on advertising but never seem to be able to provide the information that everyone would like - especially in straightforward layman terms so we can all understand. The problem has always been that even though the infrastructure costs have ballooned out to nearly $100 BILLION the market place fibre providers are all jockeying to see just what will return them a profit - and hence charge the customer. I have been with TPG since they started and they are being very quite on what the costs will be - yet the Brisbane URL above gives some indication. Dont forget that each plan I have seen is just a monthly download costing - not what the fibre modem will cost and any extra cabling that you may need in the home.I am just attempting to find out myself and inform all on here.

ps - Some blogs state that after being on NBN fibre for 18 months the copper will be pulled.

Maybe Drew can throw some more light on this white 'hot' elephant sized topic ?
Misty
27th Apr 2013
4:46pm
And you wouldn't be a rusted on Coalition Stooge espousing their propaganda would you aquatrek?.
aquatrek
29th Apr 2013
12:35pm
Misty: I dont blatantly lie like your buddy geomac. Why dont you take him to a seniors 'Computer Basics for Idiots' class?
geomac
27th Apr 2013
12:19pm
aqua I get info from NBN site via google search , surely you have the nous to do the same . As for the nut job well any acolyte of a cowardly bankrupt is hardly in any position to throw stones . Enjoy your weekend aqua , you need to chill out .
Oh for the binle minded , seek and ye shall find , beware the false prophets ( aqua )
aquatrek
27th Apr 2013
4:01pm
and thats the utter limit of your research? an ALP owned website!! as if they would actually tell anyone anything worthwhile - thats why the huge advertising campaign - marketing smoke and mirrors - sadly you just lack intellect
aquatrek
27th Apr 2013
4:05pm
ps - the NBN only set the wholesale prices to the ISP providers - the long list on the lifehacker site shows the ISP provider plan costs - then each individual will have to figure out what they really need - thats why you have told everyone on here absolutely nothing except ALP propaganda
Radish
29th Apr 2013
11:51am
Geomac.......................Please read my comment AGAIN.

I said ................'I was not prepared to pay more than $35" a month............. I did not say that was what I would be charged. I have no idea what I will be charged until such time as the NBN is at my door.

Going by everything this government has said so far I believe nothing they tell me now.
geomac
29th Apr 2013
12:30pm
Fair enough Radish . You mentioned $35 dollars . What was it about my response that you think I should not have said or misrepresented ? I ask because I,m not sure what point you are making .
aquatrek
29th Apr 2013
12:55pm
BEWARE ALL !!! another rusted on nutjob is trolling through the blogs [student] touting just thin air commentary - no facts or figures just biased ideological opion
Radish
29th Apr 2013
12:56pm
Your very first sentence in a post you put up further back

"Who is asking you to pay more than $35 a month Radish ?"
aquatrek
29th Apr 2013
1:02pm
iPrimus: Tasmania
NBN phone and broadband bundles from iPrimus start with the iPrimus Max 89, which has a download speed of 25Mbps. It will cost $89 per month. iPrimus has gone with peak and off-peak quotas for its FTTH plans and the iPrimus Max 89 includes 5GB of data at peak times (10am-2am) and 10GB off-peak.

http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article/349452/nbn_tasmania_pricing_comparison/
geomac
29th Apr 2013
1:06pm
Well I think I get what your saying Radish . Seems a reasonable question to ask but on a technical point you are correct in that you didn,t say you would be charged that amount . On a basic level I see the question inquiring who is asking more that $35 a relevant one to ask considering the topic . Forget the original question . Where did the figure of $35 come from and why use it ?
geomac
29th Apr 2013
1:15pm
aqua
Funny thing but I have iPrimus site open on another browser and for 89 bucks a month its 1TB and anytime not peak or off peak .
http://www.iprimus.com.au/PrimusWeb/HomeSolutions/FibretotheHome/
aquatrek
29th Apr 2013
1:31pm
you really are a moron geomac - below is the actual real live data extracted from the link that you have provided - quite clearly - so darn clearly that a 5 year old could understand it there is a 1/2 price incentive to sign up for 12 months at $44.50 for the lowest rated plan and then the following 12 months of a 24 month contract the cost will be $89.00 pm. CANT YOU READ EITHER ???????????

Bundles (Broadband & Telephone)
Plan Interface Speeds (Mbps)* Monthly Data Allowance Monthly Cost
No Worries Fibre MAX Home Starter
6mths 1/2 price 25/5 200GB Months 1-6: $44.50,
Months 7-24: $89.00
No Worries Fibre MAX Home Family
6mths 1/2 price 25/5 500GB Months 1-6: $54.50,
Months 7-24: $109.00
No Worries Fibre MAX Home No Worries
6mths 1/2 price 25/5 1TB Months 1-6: $64.50,
Months 7-24: $129.00

your buddy student will take you to a seniors course entitled 'Computers For Idiots' and then a course for immigrants in 'Basic English'. No - better switch the courses around. I hope that there are lots of pretty pictures that you will be able to grasp.
aquatrek
29th Apr 2013
1:35pm
ps - there is NO 1Tb plan for $89.00 pm - so that there is no mistake these are the Headings of the columns 'Plan Interface Speeds (Mbps)* Monthly Data Allowance Monthly Cost', 25/5 is the speed down and up, 200 Gb is the data allowance, monthly cost is the moola [that money like dollars and cents] that you will pay and no mention yet of setup fees or modem costs.
aquatrek
29th Apr 2013
1:43pm
pss - it would seem that fibre only [no phone] is: [these were copied and pasted so they are REAL numbers]
Fibre Light Starter 12 down / 1 up 40GB
(20GB peak +20GB offpeak) 10am-2am $39.95 bundled $49.95 standalone
geomac
29th Apr 2013
1:49pm
Fibre Light No Worries 12/1 1TB
Anytime $89.95 $99.95

Guess you should check out all options aqua not just bundled options . Thats seems to indicate 1TB for 89 bucks . Oh and to satisfy you I should add the 95 cents . In any case fellow posters can look for themselves as there are plenty of ISP prices about for NBN . Not your preferred ISP though tpg for domestic customers . Look forward to your next rant , watch the blood pressure though .
geomac
29th Apr 2013
1:53pm
Forgot to add that is not a half price sign up incentive . I find it odd for a person who bags me you seem a bit selective or is that sloppy with what you post ?
aquatrek
29th Apr 2013
4:28pm
your a double dip moron as at least I specify what I post on here - not airy fairy crap - Radish currently spends $35 on internet alone and he said that was his limit and now you post up a figure of $89.95 after telling Radish a whole heap of ALP propaganda lies = pathetic
geomac
29th Apr 2013
4:40pm
Aqua
You are really unraveling . You know and I know I posted the 89 buck price to show the 1TB you said didn,t exist . Radish and I managed to have our discussion without name calling or rants . Perhaps you could follow the Radish example ?
aquatrek
29th Apr 2013
4:41pm
perhaps you will swear not to tell lies anymore ?
aquatrek
29th Apr 2013
4:58pm
12/1 Mbit 20 GB 128K $39.95/mth unbundled $29.95/mth bundled - but you didnt mention the modem costs - as per your ISP
and you stated that you wouldnt need a phone line but that means that you must have a mobile contract to add to your bills if you are to be contacted by phone [who would want to?]
then you said that you only used the NBN website for information - thats a joke to start with

maybe you have no concept about the data sizes and speeds but for the average Joe Blow who uses the internet for email, FaceBook and Google 1 Tb is about as ludicrous as anyone could get - thats about a trillion times overkill !! lets suggest about 5 Gb per month for the normal usage. I am on 20 Gb and academically downloading many many documents and I donr use anywhere near 20 Gb.
geomac
29th Apr 2013
5:13pm
I have a pre paid mobile phone and 30 bucks lasts me many months , Telstra. I seldom need to use it . I never suggested 1TB and myself use 20Gb . I posted the 1TB to refute your statement saying there was no 89 buck price . Can you at least post a valid comment . Its getting like a dog chasing its tail , going nowhere .
aquatrek
29th Apr 2013
5:28pm
you said that my posted URL's didnt work and then compiled some unintelligble gibberish about what was and what wasnt in the URL's so dont call me 'difficult' - until I started posting URL to backup any comments I made you were just delivering ALP propaganda as if it was the gospel truth - if you want to engage in a debate about prices then do some research first instead of criticizing another's non-personal supply of information. It would seem that you have learnt a lot over the last two days about the NBN. I am glad to educate you further anytime - for free.
Radish
29th Apr 2013
1:00pm
Just because the Labor government is doing something that Howard did does not make it right.
I would criticize ANY government who advertises when I believe it is unnecessary. Here in WA we have one electricity provider yet we were getting advertisements put out by the Liberal government. I objected most strongly to that.
aquatrek
29th Apr 2013
1:17pm
https://forum.exetel.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=329&t=38491
Minumurra is on the NSW south coast about 25 km south of Wollongong. It was another 'trial' group.
Radish
29th Apr 2013
1:35pm
Geomac the reason I said $35 is that currently I am paying $34.95 a month and that to me is all I want to pay for internet access.
geomac
29th Apr 2013
1:37pm
Thanks for clarifying why you cited the figure Radish .


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