No hope of budget surplus

Deloitte has declared that the budget is floundering and will never be in surplus.

No hope of budget surplus

Just as Treasurer Scott Morrison is crunching the numbers to deliver his Mid Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook (MYEFO), which is due to be released in two weeks time, analysis by Deloitte has declared that the budget is floundering and will never be in surplus.

Rather than being in deficit by $35.1 billion, the Deloitte Access Budget Monitor has found that the figure will be closer to $40.3 billion, and will blow out considerably over the next three years, making it near impossible to return the country’s budget to surplus any time soon. Deloitte forecasts the economy will shrink by 2.5 per cent, resulting in a deficit of $48 billion by 2018-19.

The decline in the Chinese economy and the drop in commodity prices will result in lower company tax receipts. These will have the greatest impact on the deficit, with revenue $4.4 billion less than expected in 2015-16.

The continued low interest rates will have an impact on revenue collected from interest, while the increase in tax deductions through negative gearing will also have an adverse effect. Superannuation tax collections will also be lower than expected, $2.2 billion less than forecast.

Wage growth, or lack thereof, will hit the revenue from pay as you go tax, and as a double blow, will also result in less bracket creep, whereby individuals find themselves in the next, higher, tax bracket.

On the plus side, an increase in revenue from capital gains tax is expected, as the real estate market delivers impressive growth.

Deloitte Access partner Chris Richardson said, "That line on the budget graph that shows the deficit disappearing, it never gets there on our projections."

According to Mr Richardson, both sides of politics had “strikingly mismanaged” the country’s finances.

Read more at TheAge.com.au  

Opinion: Don’t blame those on welfare

So we’re told the budget deficit is likely to be worse than expected – cue headlines screaming of the blowout in welfare payments being to blame, but is this really the case?

The last three Social Service Ministers, Kevin Andrews, Scott Morrison and now Christian Porter have all cried poor when it comes to Australia’s welfare budget, with “unsustainable” being the consistent buzzword. And while on paper the cost may continue to increase, it’s important to look at the reasons for this and whether or not simply cutting payments is the answer.

And this is exactly what Peter Whiteford, Professor in the Crawford School of Public Policy at the Australian National University has done. In an article, ‘Is welfare sustainable?’, published by Insidestory.org.au, Mr Whiteford looks at the basis the Government uses for claiming that welfare is indeed, unsustainable, and applies different factors, such as welfare figures predicted in 10 years being compared to tax revenue of today, to determine how much of a burden welfare actually is for the Government. 

While popular current affair shows on television will decry those claiming welfare payments as ‘dole bludgers’ and being out to ‘rort the system’, it’s worthwhile keeping things in perspective and remembering that the majority of people claiming benefits do so as a last resort. Those who can’t work due to a disability, because they’re caring for someone else or, because they don’t have enough in retirement savings, very few would be delighted at the prospect of having to front Human Services to make a claim.

It’s time to stop playing politics and start looking at the economy as a whole. Manufacturing in Australia has been consistently eroded, with no backup plan to replace the jobs or revenue. We’ve hung our hat on the hopes of China’s continued economic growth and lo and behold, it’s about to backfire. We know that the superannuation system is unfairly skewed for those with big balances and high salaries, yet we don’t do anything about it. And negative gearing, well, need I say any more?

And so we wait with bated breath to see what type of MYEFO Scott Morrison will deliver and whether or not those on welfare, those who can usually least afford to pay, will be made to do so.

Does the increasing budget deficit concern you? Do you agree with Chris Richardson that both sides of politics have “strikingly mismanaged” the country’s finances? Should revenue be increased rather than costs reduced as a means to manage the deficit?





    COMMENTS

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    maelcolium
    30th Nov 2015
    10:11am
    Why do people take any notice of the postulations of Delloitte? Chris whatever his name is ex Access Economics is a player in there and I've never known his view of the economy to be on the money, so why would a bunch of accountants have the wood on real economists. Is it that they have a vested interest in their consultancy fees coming out of the public sector?

    This talking down the economy is just mainstream trash talk IMO. Real economists are saying there is a spending problem in the economy, so until the government cease their stupid relentless pursuit of a surplus and taxation "reform" the chatter will continue unabated. If we want to blame welfare then start at the corporate welfare enjoyed by coal miners for one rather than the social welfare. I don't listen or watch the talk shows because a meme is growing about the haves and the have nots which is just a futile discussion. I would rather talk about the ways of creating work for the un-under employed, but that's not as sexy as kicking the shit out of unemployed youth or pensioners.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    1:20pm
    "Real economists"? Not sure they exist as none ever were able to predict the GFC or any number of other watershed events in society. Given the state of the nation I BLAME ECONOMISTS who lead governments with their BS....and complete lack of accountability.
    The issue is not spending. The issue waste and revenue collection. As I have repeatedly said the big end of town is sponging on the poorest and have their accountants and lawyers at their side to avoid paying the real rate of tax. This is the problem.
    The solution:
    1. Government need to be accountable and need to stop wasting money. The $80 million Abbott Royal Commission which ended with no scalps is but one place where OUR money has been used like confetti at the whim of the incumbent government trying to smear the competition.
    2. Tax havens set up with the prime intent of avoiding tax need to be outlawed. Not next decade. Next week. This would have bipartisan support but sadly this government is 'owned' by the big end of town so don't expect it to do this.
    3. Close the superannuation Tax Shelter.
    4. Introduce income thresholds for superannuation so that the rich cannot access public money as it currently does. The rich do not need superannuation subsidies from taxpayers!
    5. Stop selling everything to foreigners as this results in the dividends these businesses produce going offshore and taxpayers needing to make up the difference.
    6. Begin opening manufacturing jobs again to EMPLOY AUSTRALIANS, not foreigners.

    It is unlikely this government is going to do anything other than what it has done from day 1: go after the poorest so that it can deliver tax cuts to the wealthiest.

    This argument is not about the haves and have nots maelcolium. It is about fairness and not cannibalising those with the least ability to pay. Equity mate!
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    1:55pm
    And in the meantime, Mick, the 'opposition' will continue to promote - at our expense - the myth that equal numbers equals equality, and will continue to develop and exploit differences between the sexes in order to gain as near total control over our society as possible, while significantly enriching themselves at the public purse as well, and through developing 'policies' that give self and family opportunities to make millions if not billions out of the public purse.

    There are clear examples of this nepotism and masnepotism (masturbatory nepotism to benefit self - new Trebor word) on both 'sides' of the Exploitationist Party, which is successfully maquerading as a government of two parties.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    5:26pm
    Don't know where all that came from TREBOR. Wow.
    My issue is that BOTH sides of politics are perverse, dishonest and have their own agendas as well as their election funding sponsors to satisfy. The country rarely is worth a mention other than playing political football with it at the expense of each and every one of us.
    So you wonder why I keep saying VOTE FOR THE BEST INDEPENDENT YOU HAVE in your electorate.
    Until both sides understand that the public have had it with them we will see no meaningful change and the country will continue to slide towards third world status.
    I again draw your attention to the list above which is far from exhaustive. And whilst politicians play the blame game and the blind eye game the issues above stand out like traffic lights on the road to our future.
    WE NEED REAL POLITICIANS, NOT PROSTITUTES IN MONKEY SUITS!!
    tisme
    30th Nov 2015
    10:25am
    i care for a mother with bipolar ocd /odd /dementia and an autistic daughter with deformed feet / blind in one eye /deaf in one ear for 2.50 an hour carer pittance and the way things are going if /when my caring days are over i will end up on disability i have cared for a dying brother at the same time . and Im a welfare bludger ?? im partly responsible for the debt ?? i dont think so. the politicians should look at what they get now and when they retire
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    11:18am
    .. not to mention the 'incidental/accidental "business" opportunities' that fall their way and the way of their families out of government 'policy'while they are allegedly running the country on our behalf.

    That applies to both 'parties' of 'left' and 'right'. There is a 'born to rule and profit from an elected position' mentality in all of them.
    Hasbeen
    30th Nov 2015
    1:20pm
    tisme, would you please explain just why you believe you, or anyone else should be paid for looking after your own family. I always thought that was what families did.

    I cared for my mother for my mother for over 20 years. First in a granny flat I built for her, & then in my home, when she needed too much help for any sort of independent living.

    No one ever paid me a cent to do this, & I see no reason why anyone should pay me to look after my own mother.

    I will be eternally grateful to the taxpayer, via the government subsidised services we did receive. The visiting nurse service was invaluable when it became difficult to get her into a car, & the community support workers, who helped with showering & some other personal ladies stuff.

    This cost most of her pension, but was heavily subsidised, & without it she would have had to go into a nursing home, a fate she was terrified of. Perhaps we should be counting our blessings, rather than bitching.
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    1:57pm
    Because the cost of home care and visitation far exceeds the cost of paying a pittance to a carer.

    We could always dump home care and visitation and simply send the tumbrils around weekly or so to check for bodies in residences.

    Bring Out Your Dead!

    Ahhh - how far we've advanced as a society - but not in our thinking... (snuckles)...
    Adrianus
    30th Nov 2015
    10:40am
    What concerns me more than the budget deficit is the government's inability to make the necessary legislative changes to fix the problems. This tells me that there is a majority of politicians who still think it is not an issue. I suppose recognition of the problems associated with budget repair is also recognition of guilt. Nobody wants to admit they stuffed things up on purpose or are incompetent.
    Anonymous
    30th Nov 2015
    11:03am
    What nobody in power wants to do is recognize that you can't get blood out of a stone, and it's the wealthy not paying their share that is the problem - not the minority of battlers on welfare because they genuinely needed, and certainly not the very small minority who cheat the system to get a minimal handout that, quite honestly, nobody would want to put their hand out for if there was a valid alternative.

    Tackle the superannuation rorts, the corporate tax dodging, the wealthy using trusts etc. to dodge their obligations. But no... nobody in government wants to do that, because that would hurt them and their mates. Never mind that those who would be affected have way more than they need already. Greed is an insidious disease and it's destroying our society.
    Adrianus
    30th Nov 2015
    11:53am
    Yes let's keep increasing the taxes on the "wealthy" until one day we watch them sail off to a foreign shore. We have 1.5m Australians working overseas. We have traded that for 1m new entries who cant speak English and many of whom refuse to learn our native tongue.
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    12:13pm
    In that case someone more ethical and less greedy might just fill their place and work within the same rules as everyone else.

    Any business that off-shores should be required to pay the Entry Tax to resume or continue trading here.

    I have no fear that the rich will move offshore - that way we can tax them when they continue to trade here under a proper tax regime.

    I've said for a very long time that if such things as trusts etc were not financially profitable, they would not be used - which simply translates to "not paying their way".
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    1:24pm
    Good post Rainey. You recognise the reality. If you want to hear the response then our own government troll above has delivered the normal rhetoric. When I was young it was called 'I'll take my ball and go home'. The repose is basic: the rich are not here for their health. They are here to make money. They do. But they want it all. Not what real Australians are about!
    Anonymous
    30th Nov 2015
    4:01pm
    I once heard Murdoch threaten to go offshore. Well, what if he did? We'd have no newspapers or radio or TV news? Rubbish! A thousand entrepreneurs would start up media businesses and hire people to broadcast the news and we'd be far better off. Smaller enterprises hire more people, pay more tax, look after their workers better, show more community spirit, and report news more objectively.

    Frank, the greedy wealthy can leave - and the further away they go, the better. Consumption won't stop so demand won't end and where there is demand, there will always be entrepreneurs and workers to fill it. More small business would be very good for the country. As would the departure of most of our self-serving and incompetent politicians who, if they were worth a tiny fraction of what they are paid, would have ensured that new entrants weren't allowed to stay unless they quickly mastered English, accepted our customs and traditions,and demonstrated the ability and the willingness to pay their way in society.
    Anonymous
    30th Nov 2015
    4:09pm
    BTW, Frank. I'd be willing to bet quite a few of the slightly more affluent retirees who lose their part-pension in Jan 2017 will take their bat and ball and go elsewhere, spending their dollars in countries where the money goes further - because, quite frankly, many of them can't afford to live here now given that their income will be less than the age pension. And I see no reason for any of them to show loyalty to a nation that has screwed them over so badly and dishonestly. Even if they stay here, their approx. $12000 pa reduction in spending will likely hurt the economy, unless of course they elect to blow a big bundle quickly and claim the pension and benefits. Either way, Morrison's claimed savings will quickly evaporate.

    This country desperately needs people with vision and a social conscience. We don't need the greedy rich who keep moaning about taxes and paying high-flying accountants bucket-loads to help them steal from the rest of us. (Yep, that's what it is. Theft. Plain and simple.) And as for so-called ''bludgers'' - there may be a few, but most, if you looked a little more closely and with objectivity, are actually disadvantaged battlers who would be delighted to work and pay taxes if only they could enjoy good health and reasonable opportunity. Condemning is easy when you have never walked in their shoes.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    5:28pm
    Good post Rainey. Indeed the greedy and manipulative wealthy cannot take the country with them and have to sell their ventures to somebody else. Let them go. I was happy to see Murdoch go and this man would be loathed by many Australians who see him as not only a traitor but also as a meddler trying to manipulate OUR POLITICS when he is not even a citizen.
    Geminiwoman
    30th Nov 2015
    11:03am
    I am so sick of the Government crying "welfare is unsustainable". Whilst they may, to some extent be right, they always target the legitimate recipients instead of the true dole bludgers who spend their lives on the beach or elsewhere, with no intention whatsoever of getting a job. As well, there are way too many welfare categories, isn't this the government who wanted to bring in paid parental leave? Seriously, like all the generations before us, you either don't have children until you can afford it, or you manage without welfare. Also, don't get me started on the multi billions of tax payer dollars shelled out to other countries and the multi billions of dollars going into immigration and off-shore detention centres and the free loaders that go with it. Then, because of this, we are now in a position of fear of terrorism which is openly being threatened by some of these so called immigrants. Add to that the multi billions of dollars paid to our polititians even after they leave office. Tell me again who the bludgers are. I believe that immigration into Australia is a privilege, not a right. Those who come here MUST obey our laws and respect our customs. I think that in this respect we should have a "3 strikes and you're out" policy. Our Government, who are actually our employees, should be looking after Australia and it's people FIRST AND FOREMOST, both financially and physically.
    Anonymous
    30th Nov 2015
    11:10am
    Agreed, Geminiwoman. But I'd go further. Immigrants haven't paid tax in this country, so declare them welcome and support them for 6 months, then they are on their own. Can't contribute - no money! That includes NOT giving them childcare subsidies etc. (which we are told many of them are rorting by ''child swapping''!) Let's restrict the benefits to those who have genuinely contributed to this country as best they were able.

    As for politicians and senior bureaucrats, how about a performance-related salary, and the same retirement benefits as the rest of us get. They are stuffing up the country, so the old adage ''pay peanuts, get monkeys'' is obviously wrong. We might be far better off paying peanuts! And let's extend that to CEO's and company directors. Pay them based on share value increase or dividends. And NOTHING if they leave after damaging the company.

    The real ''leaners'' in this nation are the grossly overpaid under-performing incompetents and the tax cheats. Leave the poor disabled, sick, aged, and those genuinely unable to find acceptable work alone. In fact, give them an increase. Their increased spending would stimulate the economy and create more jobs, whereas giving it all to the wealthy only means more dollars stashed in foreign banks in tax havens.
    Kaz
    30th Nov 2015
    11:45am
    I must agree Rainey - we still are not hearing anything worthwhile re addressing the inequities
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    1:28pm
    We are living one big game. As I have said on many occasions FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL and you will see who is pulling the strings. No matter what way you look at the current government it always ends up at the big end of town:

    Coal industry - repeal of Carbon tax resulting in $8 billion a year in less tax

    Banking Industry - previous governments legislation protecting customers from bank fraud and cannibalising thrown in the bin

    Repeated attempts to tax the poor and give the rich more tax cuts

    That's just a few but it tells the tale.
    Adrianus
    30th Nov 2015
    2:22pm
    mick as a budgetary measure the carbon tax was a furphy. The government at the time, as they commonly do, announced a new tax and gave out billions in compensation. It was one way traffic. $7b was paid out by the government to the very businesses who were going to be taxed. When asked if they liked the tax, many businesses said Yes!! this is great!! ha ha ha ha!!
    This is the way tax should be. When asked who designed the tax Swan fessed up it was the miners!!! ha ha ha ha!!!
    He asked the miners how they wanted it paid and they said here's our bank accounts!!! ha ha ha ha!!!
    Peterrj
    30th Nov 2015
    2:34pm
    Rainey, child swapping and making a big bucket of free Govt money in child care payments is NOT rorting the system. The system allows that to happen. If you don't like it then it's a system's failure. Fix the system and we all save money to give to others on another form of welfare!!!
    Kaz
    30th Nov 2015
    3:58pm
    Not quite true Frank and part of the problem was a lack of consultation. It was a good solution to so much money going out of the country / better consultation would have improved it - but I agree that there should not have been compensation. I note prices increased almost immediately the scheme was implemented when we knew the effects could not possibly have yet been felt, but the costs didn't reduce when Abbott took it away. Funny that.
    Anonymous
    30th Nov 2015
    4:20pm
    Peterrj, your comment, I think, reflects the attitude that is so problematical in today's society. The ''system'' allows it, so it's not the fault of those who take money dishonestly. RUBBISH! Hockey used that argument to justify paying rent to his wife. It's CRAP. However flawed the law may be, there is a moral and ethical standard that we all understand. Integrity and decency should be the measure of a person's worth, not legal compliance. If the law is wrong, speak out and try to change it, but DO NOT EVER use it to justify wrong doing.

    Those who child swap and take child care payments dishonestly are THIEVES. They should be jailed. (And by the way, it IS actually illegal. The system DOESN'T allow it. It just isn't very successful in stopping it.)

    Politicians, on the other hand, made sure the law ALLOWED them to pay their wives rent. But it's still theft and it still makes them scum of the very worst kind.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    5:35pm
    Frank: you are posting political BS!
    The repeal of the Carbon Tax costs taxpayers $8 billion a year....the forgone tax. And the jobs are disappearing anyway!!!
    So how much did solar panels cost and did they or did they not result in both cheaper power and cleaner energy? Of course they did!
    The problem with the implementation of the Carbon Tax is that the government was trying to avoid the obvious confrontations rather than make a call and let it lie. If the Abbott opposition had been worth two hoots then it would have signed on and ran with Labor to achieve a great outcome rather than drag the country into the gutter and do its best to bankrupt it.....and then come to power and spend money on political stunts rather than the country.
    I really don't need your troll comments Frank. This is what this government is all about and why we are seeing nothing for the huge debts which keep adding to the bottom line despite the fact that this government is 5 years removed from the GFC. It tells a story!
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    5:38pm
    By the way Frank.....did you see how many people attended the climate change rally? Tells a real story when apathetic Australians get their butts on a train to go to a rally. Can't talk your way out of that one. The numbers speak for themselves.
    Adrianus
    30th Nov 2015
    5:40pm
    Kaz, it was a similar situation with the introduction of GST. In many circumstances the prices should have dropped, but it was a rare case indeed when this happened. In fact out of 952 items I priced, I could find an actual drop in price on only 57. I found the price increases were more than 10% as well.
    Adrianus
    30th Nov 2015
    6:31pm
    mick now I know you've lost it! In the words of Andrew Bolt....."what is going on?"
    You now say power prices have gone down? "So how much did solar panels cost and did they or did they not result in both cheaper power and cleaner energy? Of course they did!"
    But just last month you were saying power prices have gone up????
    What is going on mick???
    To quote John McEnroe ..... "you cant be serious!!!"
    Adrianus
    30th Nov 2015
    7:37pm
    mick, you have nothing to say?
    To quote Sean Connery...."You canna be serious!"
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    9:06pm
    Frank: you can change the subject but you can't escape the truth. The climate rally was one of the largest ever seen in Australia. Tell that to your coal funded government sponsor.
    Whilst we are on power prices do you remember Greg Hunt the brain dead mouthpiece of coal: "you have high electricity prices because of the Carbon Tax". I am still waiting for the promised cuts. Been waiting for 2 years Frank. So don't lecture me about the cost of solar panels. Unlike your coal masters the panels have a one off cost and after that FREE ELECTRICITY....except your parasitic coal industry has apparently conspired with this election funding owned government to in some states pay as little as 3 cents per KWH rather than closer to the going rate. Corruption at work. As it is with your posts.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    10:23am
    mick the price drop of pv panels is mostly due to the improvements and massive cost reduction of silicon. Silicon is mined mick which goes against your grain, so to speak. :)
    Solar panels are a great way of capturing the suns energy, but the sun only shines when we are at work? I would like to know what happens when we are at home at night and need the lights on?
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    8:57am
    Shows your very limited understanding and your allegiance to this government's political master: the coal industry.
    Do some research Frank. Storage batteries are here. Give them a few years to drop in price and your coal industry will be dead in the water. The falling coal price should tell you that anyway....if you wanted to listen.
    As I said............lets change the subject?
    Adrianus
    4th Dec 2015
    9:14am
    In Tasmania all it took was a change in government and a repeal of that stupid carbon tax for power prices to drop a massive 11% and still falling.
    mick check in with mussitate at the meeting place. He is concerned about your health.
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    10:37am
    Funny my dear troll but power prices did not drop for a year in NSW. Then they dropped by about 10% when they SHOULD HAVE DROPPED by 60% to get us back to pre Carbon Tax prices. The normal Liberal Party deceit you get. Never changes.
    For the record the Carbon Tax was NEVER "bad". This was just terminology brought in by a slogan wielding Tony Abbott trying to win office on the back of coal funding. Release the books Frank and the rest of the nation will see this.
    If the Carbon Tax were not the best thing since sliced cheese then WHY would world leaders be calling for one to be put in place? Not rocket science. Just propaganda from this government and its coal buddy whom it needs to pay off.

    30th Nov 2015
    11:08am
    Inept government financial management is the reason, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
    Anonymous
    30th Nov 2015
    11:13am
    Spot on, Fast Eddie. But who suffers for it? The struggling poor who are powerless to fix the problem overpaid incompetents created and continue to exacerbate. Hockey got the ''lifters'' and ''leaners'' back to front!
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    11:26am
    Joe did, Rainey - which clearly shows how much our exalted elected representatives and serial troughers actually know about anything. His comment might have gone over well to a closed room of Lib supporters in North Sydney - but out in public such a statement was posting a target on his own back.

    Joe's first book - "Not Your Average Joke".

    Joe's second book - "Fifty Shades of Gravy".
    Anonymous
    30th Nov 2015
    11:30am
    That's the Aged Pensioners' flag we see above.
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    11:33am
    I wanna see that, Fast Eddie..... oh - I get it - the title picture.

    We (loosely defined) are looking at options - buying another house nearer grand-kids after selling property - or a rental retirement village. Costs more to live in a village than in your own home and you never own (sorry - lease from the government) the property.... how mad it is.
    Anonymous
    30th Nov 2015
    12:46pm
    Yes, Trebor, be VERY wary about selling YOUR home. The cost in a retirement village can be horrendous (initial, body corp, ongoing, etc) and the place may not EVER be the same as your OWN HOME. Once it is sold there will be NO going back, so think about it twice, thrice, or more. Besides losing your home, privacy, independence, etc, etc you will be involuntarily subsidising the government and more than likely hurting yourself financially in the long run. Hasten ever so slowly, please. Good luck.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    1:33pm
    You mean this government which came to power on the PROMISE that it would bring the budget back into surplus has lied? And that the budget will never be brought back into surplus? And that we now need to forget about this promise and many others made before the last election?
    How strange. Maybe we are supposed to blame Labor? There has to be an answer other than this government is dishonest to the core and doing deals with the big end of town.
    Show us the money Malcolm!
    Peterrj
    30th Nov 2015
    2:41pm
    Fast Eddie, you telling others to 'slow down'?

    I like the reference to the Retirees Flag!!!

    But equally it could be the next flag of Australia after we 'tax the rich' to make them leave and take their business elsewhere!!!!
    Anonymous
    30th Nov 2015
    4:49pm
    Send them packing, Peterrj. We don't need them. There are plenty who would happily take their place servicing the demand that will continue to exist when all the rich and corrupt thieves are gone.

    The problem with Australia today is that people are no longer proud to pay their way fairly. Tax has become a dirty word and somehow being able to avoid it has become clever and honourable. It isn't! Any wealthy person who wouldn't accept a slightly higher tax bill graciously and with a smile is not fit for this society. In tough times, decent people give more.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    9:10pm
    The rich have their place. Always have had. But the rich do nicely without raping taxpayers. When the big end of town starts to believe it is 'special' and that it deserves a different set of rules to average citizens then we have a problem.
    If the rich believe that we cannot do without them then they need to leave and go to a country they can easily milk. That is the game: play country against country to extract deals which benefit no country.
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    11:15am
    Without a solid underpinning of tertiary production accompanied by tariff barriers that create a genuine level playing field by ensuring that imported finished products are of the same market value - there is no hope for any economy other than being a Banana Republic, and anyone who by now does not know the pitfalls of such a thing is blind, deaf and dumb.

    Since Oz-Style Banana Republicanism in the guise of the ores supply - a manifest furphy anyway since for some dark reason the Oz 'governments' have permitted most of the profit and the taxable income to vanish off-shore - has failed.... there is no hope for this country other than dire poverty for the many while the overlords live it up.

    This is the case for much of the Civilised World at this time, and I foresee much darkness and pain and blood to restore some sanity to it all.

    On another issue - about time (been reading on how the off-shore tax havens work etc) time is long past for anyone operating out of such a thing to pay an entry tax to our economy. Ante up or don't enter the profit disco.....
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    12:23pm
    .. I forgot - our Banana Republicanism is now going to be of 'education' and 'expertise'. Apparently as a country that can have one in twelve unemployed plus, we somehow 'need' to import foreign 457 'skills' - and yet somehow retain the ability to educate those same '457's and offer them our expertise at a price before they come here.

    I await this one with bated breath.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    1:35pm
    I believe that I first indicated this TREBOR when Paul Keating floated the dollar. YOU CANNOT COMPETE WITH SOMEBODY EARNING LESS THAN $10 A DAY NO MATTER HOW LITTLE YOU PAY AUSSIE WORKERS!!
    Basic mathematics that it was going to end this way.
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    7:44pm
    The whole deal was designed from top to bottom and from start to finish to profit mightily the middle men - those who transferred the cheapest labour in the world to the highest priced markets. Neither the cheapest labour has prospered nor have the end market buyers.... though both are enduring a raft of social issues such as unemployment in the buyer market and all the evils that accompany that, as well as rising social disparities between the industry labour class (Chinese Industrial Man/Person - the CHIMP) and the rest of the same countries - in which the suppliers of primary goods can no longer compete for purchasing power with annual CHIMP pay rises over 15%, with the consequent inflation and need to raise local prices for local goods.. and an increasing mass of disadvantaged - not to mention the simple reality that at 15% annual pay rises ..... (wait for it)........ the price of finished goods will reflect the same labour cost as it once did here.... but then freight will be added.....

    Game over... WW III begins for market and profit share......
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    7:46pm
    ..Sorry - should read.....

    "those who transferred the products of the cheapest labour in the world to the highest priced markets."

    Me bad - with that kind of error I'll fail my third Ph.D.... return my Professor Emeritus badge.... (snuckles)...
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    9:11pm
    Forgiven!
    Erf
    30th Nov 2015
    11:27am
    I totally agree Maelcolium. Spot on. What do yoy think we should do ..super manipulation by wealthy seems to be on the horizon...how do you think we can tackle the $7 billion negative gearimg tax dodge?
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    12:26pm
    One investment property - like unexpected or expected (in this case) pregnancy and single motherhood, one mistake can be made. When it becomes serial there is a problem, Houston....

    The issue of NG has been discussed over and over, and like the 'fear' that the rich, who somehow are promoting all this fabulous trickle-down (LMAO) will leave the country - the ghastly spectre of 'housing availability will fall if we chop NG' is raised every time.

    NG should only apply perhaps to NEW construction and for a limited time.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    1:40pm
    Remove negative gearing (completely) and there will be heaps of property on the market. The price of houses will drop like a rock. Home owners will have properties worth a lot less. And many renters will have to live in tents.
    You need to remember Erf that investors pay Stamp Duty going in and Capital Gains Tax exiting. Its not as if it is a free ride and I the only real gain for investors is Capital Gain as renters run places into the ground and simply walk away with landlords having to find money to fix up the dilapidated joints as well as paying interest, insurance, and all the other things which go into being a landlord.
    If life were that easy.
    Adrianus
    30th Nov 2015
    3:35pm
    The smart money is now moving into commercial property where the tenants pay all the outs, look after the place, pay double the rent on longer leases. I wonder would the ATO still recognise a loss on commercial if NG was scrapped? Would lending slow with PG becoming the new norm?
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    8:59am
    What does that have to do with my post....the content of which you choose to avoid?
    Adrianus
    4th Dec 2015
    9:23am
    mick this may come as a shock, but the world spins around on it's own axis. I was responding to Erf.
    If res property becomes more affordable as you state, "house prices dropping like rocks" then why would people move into tents?
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    10:39am
    Because this is what this government would ideally want pensioners to do so that they spend everything they have before asking for $1 of assistance. Pretty obvious if you follow the news and stop going to Liberal Party briefings Frank.
    Adrianus
    4th Dec 2015
    11:11am
    mick, you cannot support a statement like that by saying "because this is what the government wants"
    Give me an insight to your logic?
    If house prices drop, as they have been doing in most parts of the country apart from the 3 east coast hot spots, then why would people move into tents? I just cant see the cause /effect correlation?
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    12:32pm
    House prices dropping? This is the media spiel from the government wanting to cool things down. I have not seen prices drop. Just a slow down and a bit less volume.
    Adrianus
    4th Dec 2015
    12:36pm
    I can find a number of houses all around the country which have dropped by as much as 30% since Rudd was elected.
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    11:30am
    Opinion: Don’t blame those on (welfare) Social Security.

    Fixed for ya - don't even enter the game of propaganda. Under out taxation regime Social Security is a bought and paid for Right and is thus inalienable.. welfare is handouts in need and is thus subject to change without notice.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    1:43pm
    Not to sure I 100% agree.
    What is missing is a FAIR system. Whilst governments turn a blind eye to the big end of town minimising income through dubious accounting deductions, Trusts and Tax shelters how can anybody turn on the bottom end of town...where there are certainly apathy and rorts galore.
    We need a top down fine tooth comb fix. Not an easiest target one. The current government will go for the easiest target. No surprise given its track record and election funding sources.
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    3:20pm
    Just warning of the pitfall of falling into the system of belief that Social Security is a handout and infinitely malleable.... it is and remains forever a Right as long as the Social Security Contribution is derived from taxation.

    The fact that this is resting in Consolidated Revenue has no relevance, since the contribution has still been made, and is a bill due on government.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    9:14pm
    "Rights" worry me TREBOR. One has to be careful that rights and manipulation do not go hand in hand. Whilst I deplore the way the rich help themselves to taxpayer money I also deplore those at the other end choosing welfare as a lifestyle whilst playing the violin and claiming discrimination and poverty which are often ploys to disguise laziness and the need for a free ride on the back of hard working Aussies. My take.
    Glen48
    30th Nov 2015
    11:32am
    Another problem coming up is those divorced in their 50 .. At one stage we were worth 500k on paper my ex decided she wanted to run away with a person who beat her up... I had to go along for the ride being Male,,,had I been able to make her see commonsense and hold on to our assets today they would be worth around 1.9 M..Then I got screwed over by Commonwealth Suicide Assistance and had to sell a rental property as rent was taxed under CSA...To day I am renting a room and own nothing...I do no vote and keeping telling the ATO to Bankrupt me as I have nothing..so the CSA got their money and the taxpayer has to pay me for around another 35 yrs..The whole system is stuffed.
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    11:35am
    Been there - done that - at age 48, followed by injury and illness and unemployment and unemployability (too "old")). I'd be worth millions today without it.
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    11:36am
    My advice to young men is "Never Marry and Keep Your Money and Assets to Yourself".
    Kaz
    30th Nov 2015
    11:49am
    These sound like the men did all the work and the women did nothing?
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    12:18pm
    Nobody said that - the issue is the way in which pure selfishness can lead to asset stripping at the most inopportune time of life - and the reality is that 86% of 'marital relationships' are terminated by the woman.

    I believe the word used was 'commonsense'...

    Those I see doing best in retirement are those who stuck it out, or who didn't take the selfish hit of the other person 'thinking the grass is greener elsewhere', who despite the endless propaganda - are women and not men.

    But then - when anything at all a woman doesn't love totally is considered to be 'violence against her' as an 'oppressed minority' under the reigning feministed pussy-whipped 'government' we have - I suppose it's all justified.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    1:48pm
    There are victims on both sides. Women have often asset stripped their partners using laws which are at best highly discriminatory. Men have often attacked their wives.
    What a world we live in. Where is the fairness, respect and do unto others as you would have them do unto you behaviour?
    With the bad behaviour just getting worse I have to look at scripture and wonder if our Godless society is degenerating into a Sodom and Gomorrah society. God help the grandkids!
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    3:22pm
    It will only get worse while ever governments foster and promote war between men and women. Another issue for elsewhere, but a primary cause of old age poverty for many, and of disempowerment of the many through more and more removal of basic rights.

    Not for this issue today.
    Kaz
    30th Nov 2015
    4:04pm
    Now you guys are showing your true (bitter) colours. Is there research on women and men and inequity between wages, retirement wealth and super amounts?
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    5:01pm
    No woman gets paid lower than the mandatory minimum than any man for the exact same job. That's the law. There is no 'inequity in wages' - there may be variances in incomes - but that is an entirely separate issue governed by many factors, not least of which is that women work fewer hours than men. In the 2011 Census it was 32-odd hours for women compared to 41+ for men, which - magically - equates (wait for it) exactly to the alleged 'wage gap' of 'women receiving 78% of the wages (that should read INCOME in return for work value) that men do.

    As for retirement wealth - how then do the figures that 72% of men and 61% of women will retire with only the pension?

    Let us recap - women who work gain the same opportunity in superannuation as men do - in the current mode MORE since they have been arbitrarily slotted into the sweet government jobs in preference to men for over thirty years. They also share, when in an established relationship, 50% of the man's super, as he does hers. On top of that, women generally live longer than men and thus 'inherit' both the super and all the assets.

    Nowhere do women retire with less relative worth compared to work input than men.

    I'm sorry, Major Kong - but those are the figyures....
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    5:35pm
    Are you suggesting, Kaz, that we should pay women a higher pension or that we should tax men at a higher rate to fund women's retirements, or simply place a Man Tax on all men?

    Go thy way in peace... that is not the way to go.

    I did say this is a separate issue for another time...... but please, continue to lay down your cards..... this is another real issue long past needing to be fully and properly aired.
    Kaz
    1st Dec 2015
    9:49am
    Apologies that we live longer sometimes! We also need to mention who has the children, therefore interrupting their careers, which previously there was no support for and for which men also now receive paternity leave - which is great for kids. There are other issues such keeping the home routine, and it will be the woman who looks after ill relatives, works shorter hours if she is a lone parent with younger children, etc. It's not a competition, but please be a little more objective in your provision of facts, which I note misses balance sometimes. As a previous manager, I know the frustration of employing lone mothers with children but that is a fact of life and does interrupt progression for them.
    TREBOR
    2nd Dec 2015
    12:20am
    So because women have kids - they should be paid at a higher rate per hour or per unit of work when they are in the workforce?

    'feminism' both wants women to be independent of men, hence the massive rise in single motherhood for many reason, and still expects that this chosen lifestyle will be rewarded with a higher level of pay just for being in that position?

    No lack of balance anywhere in anything I've put forward - it's all plain facts rather than the endless propaganda from the opposing viewpoint holders.

    I'm sorry - ladies - you CANNOT have it all..... better to plan your lives more carefully.
    Bones
    30th Nov 2015
    12:10pm
    If just like to know how 12000 economic migrants that are mostly without any schooling are going to be able to improve this situation?
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    1:52pm
    They won't. Many will be on social security for life. Many will never learn english or want to integrate with the incumbent society. And of course the rest of the nation will have to provide housing and improved infrastructure (hospitals, shopping centres, roads, rail, schools, etc.).
    The above is the legacy we pass on to our children and their children. Thank you Sarah Hanson Young and those in the media pumping this bad bad policy under the guise of human rights. You and your kind have a lot to answer for.
    particolor
    30th Nov 2015
    9:37pm
    I think a family with 10 Kids each should be moved in either side of Her For Comfort and that Lovey Dovey feeling it will give her ! :-) :-)
    PS..:-) :-)
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    9:00am
    That would 'fix' many a politician and judge. 'Different' when you have to put up with bad outcomes.
    Adrianus
    4th Dec 2015
    10:02am
    According to our Human Rights President ""Gone are the days when we could say, 'How dare Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Libya criticise Australia's human rights record,"
    The Saudis have publicly executed 150 people this year. A country where apostasy gets you the death penalty and bragging about sex gets you a flogging in the piazza.
    Are we really that bad?
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    10:41am
    Maybe some good outcomes for some of our lying politicians. They need it.
    Robin7
    30th Nov 2015
    12:14pm
    How About we take the 2000+ ex pollies who are on a pension of ~$200K AND who are below the retirement age and put them on the dole.
    That will save half a Billion dollars straight off the bat.
    THEN cut out all their lerks and perks - airfares, rail travel, home office, electricity, phone, travel expenses and more - that's another half billion back into the budget. (Bet you didn't know you were paying for all that On Top of their pension entitlement scheme did you?)

    THEN we need to look at the wages and entitlements our serving pollies get. Once you add in all the "allowances" they get, un-audited and tax free, THEN a simple backbencher gets nearly half a million in his pocket. I shudder to imagine what premiers and the PM get.
    That excess needs to be curtailed.

    THEN we need to look at how many pollies we have - State and Federal, over a 1000 of the bludgers. and heaven only knows how many bludging on the 560 councils - another 2500 easy (and much more likely double that).
    Thats well over 5500 bludgers and "ex"-bludgers - and that is ridiculous, ESPECIALLY as they flatly dont care what you think, or what you want. They Know Best.

    THEN tell me why does every state in Australia need their own ambassadors posted overseas (at a cool $1.5mill apiece)?
    Are we not a country? Does not Australia have its own embassies?

    In Summary: the largess of our parliament is horrifying.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    1:54pm
    Pollies should NOT be allowed to access the pension until they get to 65 (70 under Tony Abbott). This is a rort set up to bestow 'special privilege'. It is grossly unfair and needs to be abandoned. Don't hold your breath though as our pollies are very very good at looking after themselves first and the nation last.
    wally
    30th Nov 2015
    12:18pm
    Thank you Kevin, Julia and Wayne for the economic mess you left for the LNP government to put right. Thank you Mr Shorten for blocking the LNP efforts to rein in Australia's debt problem in the Senate.
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    12:28pm
    Goes back further than that, Wally. Way back to the salad days of the resources boom and the wasted opportunities there by - guess who - the LNP.
    Adrianus
    30th Nov 2015
    1:01pm
    The price boom lasted for about eight years and peaked in 2011.
    The overlapping investment boom lasted for about six years, with $400 billion worth of resources projects.
    Overall, business investment spending peaked in the last quarter of 2012 at an astonishing 19 per cent of gross domestic product.
    wally is right TREBOR, those who had access to the data should have shown some leadership and loyalty to Australia above their own party loyalty. The wealth that they raved about coming out of the ground was also their target for closure. In the back room they would be rejoicing.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    2:00pm
    So here we have the normal government trolls at work. If the Royal Commission corruption fails then blame the opposition anyway.
    For the record:

    1. look what has happened to the deficit since THIS GOVERNMENT came to power. It has blown out. It was always the intention that this should happen and that is why Abbott removed the debt ceiling. By the way....that is the debt ceiling the previous government always governed with. Tells a story!
    2. I believe the Royal Commission initiated by Tony Abbott has cost taxpayers $80 million. No guilt found by the courts. Just like the previous one!

    The waste and abuse of public money is the real issue along with the refusal to collect humongous sums of tax from the rich.

    Perhaps our resident troll(s) might explain how much of taxpayer money THEY are pocketing.
    Adrianus
    30th Nov 2015
    2:36pm
    1. look what has happened to the deficit since THIS GOVERNMENT came to power. It has blown out.
    WRONG! it is $80b better off.

    2. I believe the Royal Commission initiated by Tony Abbott has cost taxpayers $80 million. No guilt found by the courts.
    WRONG! charges have been laid, and expect more recommendations when the TURC is wound up. It is well and truly worth the small cost if it stops the unions from gatekeeping on business growth.

    Don't start me on waste mick. I have a list that is far too long to put on here.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    4:50pm
    Rubbish Frank. You are just defending the government who you are in cahoots with.
    The Royal Commission witch hunt did not get the scalps it was after. It was a smear against Labor and one might think that the judge who was shown to have Liberal Party affiliations might have made political 'findings' had the media had not caught him out.
    So you think the government has not run up the tab? You know better and your BS is just BS. I don't know how you can look in the mirror of a night. Despicable Frank!
    Anonymous
    30th Nov 2015
    5:02pm
    Poor Wally! You actually believe the LNP rhetoric that somehow Labor is to blame for our woes and Shorten is stopping the current government from fixing them? I didn't think anyone would be so ill-informed as to swallow those lies!

    Did you happen to miss noticing that Fraser took the Wealth Fund money that was supposed to pay for welfare and put it into consolidated revenue so he could PRETEND good financial management?

    Did you happen to miss noticing that Howard and Costello gave away the money from the resources boom, creating a raft of new handouts and reducing tax - with 90% of benefit going to the richest 20% in the nation? By doing so, they created obligations that the next Labor Government would struggle to wind back, and thus guaranteed that Labor would run a huge deficit - which, by the way, is still growing under this Government, despite the vicious attacks on health care, education, the disabled, and retirees.

    I don't much like anyone on either side of politics, but anyone who allocates more blame to Labor than the LNP for the current economic situation is either one-eyed and deluded or deaf and dumb.
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    5:03pm
    One person remains charged, and there is no guarantee of any more - that's pie in the sky, Frank. Thus far the RC is batting 10 wickets for one run...... and is not standing up to the straight bowling of the Labor Team....
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    9:18pm
    Great observation Rainey. We are seeing plenty of blame coming from the current government which promised the earth and then delivered very little. Now that the black hole has become huge under the wasteful watch of Tony Abbott these depots are again pushing blame to Labor.
    Sorry government. You have had 2 years and have totally botched it. YOU DO NOT DESERVE ANOTHER TERM.
    particolor
    30th Nov 2015
    9:38pm
    LONG BAYS FULL !!
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    9:44pm
    If it were possible to build a prison for crooked politicians then I'd contribute.
    Adrianus
    30th Nov 2015
    10:44pm
    TREBOR, ok we will miss the big fish on extortion, anti government protests and not paying union fees. But I think it's fair to say not paying income tax on undeclared donations will see a couple of em go up the river for a long time.
    TREBOR
    2nd Dec 2015
    12:25am
    Trouble is, Frank, you need evidence to convict for extortion etc, and it has to be conclusive evidence, not just some manager saying something long after his ink has dried on a contract.

    Do political parties pay tax on donations? Donations are gifts....

    I'll keep an eye on this one, and I don't assiduously follow this farce of a royal commission, but this is the first I've heard of 'unpaid tax on undeclared donations'.
    wally
    2nd Dec 2015
    2:42pm
    Hi Rainey. Your discussion of what Fraser, Howard and Costello, while interesting in itself, sheds no light on the current debt muddle Australia finds itself in today. That is courtesy of Rudd, Gillard and Swan during their time in government. No matter what Fraser, Howard and Costello did bears as much relevance to 2015 as whether Pontius Pilate was left or right handed. Or ambidextrous.
    particolor
    2nd Dec 2015
    7:45pm
    Napoleon was Left Handed :-)
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    9:09am
    wally: you are doing what all right wing soldiers do, ignore anything which sheds the light on your Party of choice which is bad.
    FYI - the HOward era wasted heaps of money in the most prosperous of times. No GST when Costello was in the hammock as Treasurer so he could come up with Baby Bonuses to buy votes. You seem to have forgotten that.
    And for the record the GFC did not touch this country thanks to the Rudd government injecting money to keep Australians in a job. Remember? If you want to talk about real waste then maybe mention the recent $80 Royal Commission smeer where the scalps sought were shown to not have a case to answer. Same with the Royal Commission which went after Gillard. And then there was the destruction of the NBN for a dodgy network which has actually cost the country more.
    You need to start focussing of the facts rather than the political smears which the Liberal Party are so good at. That is the difference between being an intelligent Australian and one of the programmed drones who we see getting around.
    For the record, again, I support neither side. Both are bad and do not rule in the interests of the nation!
    Peking
    30th Nov 2015
    12:59pm
    Agree with most of this but if the refugee intake from Syria is to help any of the kids referred to in this article from last year:
    http://m.smh.com.au/world/children-given-unnecessary-amputations-as-syrias-health-system-disintegrates-20140309-hvgqn.html

    then we must do so. Any parent posting here who would turn away from the plight of these kids?
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    2:01pm
    Media games to tug at the heart strings and deflect attention from the issue and the cost to us all.
    Peterrj
    1st Dec 2015
    2:07am
    mick, I must becoming radicalized as your brainwashing is starting to get me to agree with you! AHHHH!!!!! Where are my 72 virgins???? Do I collect now or later???.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    9:55am
    Brainwashing is promoting a lie. When one confronts the facts one starts to see the forest for the trees. Stripping away media lies and the grooming of a population is the first step to opening one's eyes. Having said that one does not always get it right but the score rate gets pretty good.
    Cheers.

    30th Nov 2015
    1:09pm
    BUDGET!? It's more like a Lucky Dip, Grab Bag, or flip of a coin. No forethought, strategy, no consideration of long term consequences, and just another stab in the dark and grabbing at straws for a quick-fix that will allow the LNP to cook-the-books and show a positive result in their shonky efforts before the next election. These guys wouldn't even know where they are, much less than what they are doing. Bloody pathetic!
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    2:02pm
    Yeah. But as Debbie said expect this crew to come after the poor, not the rich.
    Tom Tank
    30th Nov 2015
    1:35pm
    Cheer up things are quite good now compared to what is about to hit us when the car industry shuts down throwing thousands out of work and depriving the economy of millions of dollars through lost purchasing power.
    thank you LNP and Institute of Public Affairs but then your future is nicely secure isn't it.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    2:07pm
    I have watched it coming. Our industries shut down by idiot short sighted governments. So we import most everything.
    What do you expect to happen when China slows down to buying a much smaller amount of our minerals? ANd what do you expect to happen when you sell AUstralian farms and prime mining assets to China? Our world class lithium miner is now Chinese owned...the stuff which is going to be needed in cells to store solar generated electricity and run electric cars. Think about it!
    The result: the Aussie dollar will get slammed into the ground and we need to pay for imports. Get the picture folks?????? How do we do this? Borrow more again?
    I hope ordinary Australians who have let this happened enjoyed the good times. Unless a rabbit is pulled out of the hat the game is over.
    Rae
    30th Nov 2015
    3:16pm
    Sorry to hear our lithium mine has been sold mick. Australia is a great example of how not to run a first world nation.
    Adrianus
    30th Nov 2015
    3:22pm
    Thanks Tom, I feel much better knowing things are getting worse!
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    5:40pm
    A good pilot always wants to know the condition of his aircraft.....

    The hydraulics are shot.. the Guv Special is leaking fuel.... comms are down.... there's next to no rudder and ailerons and elevators will only respond to the backup system of hard wires.....thank god for the Gremlins who are actually over-riding Pilot Turnbull's inputs to the controls..... as long as he keeps inputting the wrong instructions, the Gremlins will always do the opposite and thus inadvertently right the ship....
    Peterrj
    30th Nov 2015
    2:21pm
    It must be a full moon, that would partly explain the numerous postings with such venom!

    I like the view, 'The rich must pay their fair share of tax'? I'll run with that.

    So pray tell, 'How much tax should those on a life time of welfare pay'???

    I say, 'Let's tax the rich out of existence!' Then what????

    Bring back Labor ASAP as I need another TV as my last one I bought with my $900 Govt free handout is now out of date and this time I will install the Pink Batts. Damn, I was too slow last time to do that! Curses!!!!
    Adrianus
    30th Nov 2015
    2:28pm
    Peter, did you get your free set top box? A neighbour told me he got a fortune for his old bomb under the cash for clunkers scheme.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    5:08pm
    No venom until Frank the crank came back. Have you noticed how quiet and respectful it has been of late?
    Your cynical post belies the fact that only the rich have excess funds whilst the poor consume 100% of what they earn or are handed. The issue you need to confront is the fairness in rich Australians who have so many outs whilst demanding that the other end is hit. Look at the present government. Nothing to do with bringing the budget into surplus. That is not going to happen. everything to do with class warfare and transfer of money from bottom to top.
    Tell it as you like. The game is clear.
    particolor
    30th Nov 2015
    5:21pm
    Ay Mick ! I think Mal just sold us into Slavery !! :-) Yummy UN !!
    NWO Coming up ! :-)
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    5:42pm
    Those on Social Security pay a higher percentage of income as tax for the simple reason that they have no option but to spend to stay alive.

    Do not be fixated only on income tax as is so often the failure of many when discussing Social Security.
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    5:46pm
    Oh - my last post - that is precisely why any increase in GST will impact most on those with the least ... they have no cash to salt away into a nice safe fund or into super etc, or to spend on an off-shore holiday which will render that cash lost income to Australia.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    9:24pm
    TREBOR: big business has been trying its best to sell ordinary AUstralians into slavery for several decades. They want an American model where 90% of wealth is owned by 1% of citizens, where many people earn $10 an hour with no full time jobs, where all workers are on a casual basis and have no paid anything other than the hourly rate and where bosses can fire at will if their employees so not agree to be 'slaves'.
    Howard was thrown out of office for trying it on (Work Choices) but the current government is slowly pursuing the agenda. Penalty rates for lowly paid workers are the current battlefield.
    The reason for sending this government on its way would have to be clear. I could fill a whole webpage on why it should happen. God help us all if it does not.
    Peterrj
    1st Dec 2015
    1:51am
    Frank, Just to answer your question ... No I did not get a free useless set top box as the free $900 Govt handout went to buy a new digital Japanese TV that already had an inbuilt set top box. I want those days to come back!!!! Get out the party balloons and give us a decent Labor Budget!!!!
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    10:51am
    Yes bring back Labor!!! We need stimulating!!!
    My neighbour was stuck with his old ford in the shed for years. He got a quote to dump it at $200, but when Julia announced the "cash for clunkers" program he found that he could do his part to save the planet, clean out the shed and make some cash at the same time. He says he's not gay but is hoping for Labor to launch a "paint your house rainbow" program. His house could do with a good paint.

    Gerry was very disappointed about not winning the tender for those set top boxes especially when his quote was a paltry 30% of the winning bid. But he won big on the TV's and the Chinese loved him for that.
    I got involved in the shower rose installation program unfortunately. I paid $50 for a power monitor and a minimalistic shower rose which dribbles like my dog when he's hungry. All installed by a sparky at a cost of $250 for parts plus labor (undisclosed). My neighbour laughed at me. He keeps asking me how its going. I don't want to tell him I got stung. The monitor worked for about 3 months.
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    9:12am
    And what will you say Frank when your neighbour is earning $10 an hour with no job security whilst paying 15% GST and a heap of other new taxes? By all means discuss drivel to change the subject!
    Josie4
    30th Nov 2015
    2:39pm
    I heard an economist on the radio one night, saying that if the big companies paid their correct tax instead of sending it offshore, we would not even have a deficit.
    Anonymous
    30th Nov 2015
    5:06pm
    Josie4, this could very well be the case. The trouble with collecting the tax lies with an inept government putting the issue in the "too hard basket". The intertwined and interwoven transactions, company subsidiaries, accounting practices, etc which are in place by foreign-owned companies are just to hard to investigate by government departments due to their lack of intelligence, expertise, and interest, even IF they were instructed to by politicians. Also, such a search may expose those companies which are also big political donors, and there go the election campaign funds. It is soooo much easier to penalise the wage and salary earner as there is no big business sponsored negative press for the government and the slush funds are not endangered.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    5:11pm
    Pretty well on the money....but we can't have wealthy mutinationals paying tax in Australia can we.
    In Japan multinationals who refuse to pay the right tax are shamed. So they defraud every other nation, take much of the dough to Japan and pay their taxes. Good deal for Japan but still not enough to lift the country out of depression...the cost of sending jobs to cheaper countries???? Sound familiar?
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    5:44pm
    That is why I proposed an Entry Tax - you want to play in our economy - there is an entrance fee.... and a minimum tax on your transactions.

    If you do not wish to play ....... step aside for someone who will ... I'm sure there are ethical companies out there who would love a shot at market share here.
    bandy
    30th Nov 2015
    3:55pm
    I know Im going to be shot down for my comments ,but i never had a good education or earned a lot of money,but what I did learn was work hard budget your income dont spend what you haven't got or promise something you cant keep.Im reading what all these wiz kids are telling us what should be done (politicians & brain trust)& just dont seem to be able to get it right.So what do they do ,seems to me they just make excuses & pass the buck instead of pulling in the reins & dont promise everything.I think with time things will work out.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    5:12pm
    You were taught right bandy. Today's economists and politicians are however more like prostitutes than servants of the public. Guns for sale.
    TREBOR
    30th Nov 2015
    5:27pm
    Probably after World Wars III and IV, bandy...
    particolor
    30th Nov 2015
    4:26pm
    I know how that Bloke up the top there feels !! :-( :-(

    30th Nov 2015
    4:50pm
    those pesky rich people, they should kick them out the country, labor mick has sleepless nights over them, by the way that royal commission has already quite a few scalps and it is not over yet!!!
    particolor
    30th Nov 2015
    5:17pm
    I was just reading on another Site that Australia is VERY Unlikely to Ever have a Budget Surplus again !! :-(
    But I think if we dig up an Uluru Sized GOLD NUGGET We might stand a Chance :-)
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    9:15am
    I thought that Tony Abbott PROMISED that we would return to surplus.....before he repealed the working perfectly Carbon Tax (costs taxpayers $8 billion a year now) and removed the debt ceiling to borrow to infinity.
    particolor
    4th Dec 2015
    9:17am
    Up Up Up in puff of Coal Smoke !! :-(
    Fready
    30th Nov 2015
    5:37pm
    In Australia the average salary is about $80,000. The first $18,000 is tax-free meaning the average worker pays about $17,000 per annum in tax. The Government receives 70% of its income from income tax and 30% from business tax. Of the $34,000 full pension paid to a couple $23,800 is from income tax paid by a worker. That is 1.4 full time workers to support a pensioner couple. With the number of baby boomers retiring and the aging population the ratio will worsen.
    A single mother with 3 children gets about $66,000 in family support (tax free). That's 2.7 full time workers to support this family without considering support for the families of the 2.7 workers.
    The current social security system is too generous to be sustainable.!!
    particolor
    30th Nov 2015
    6:17pm
    Any bloody wonder they want to flock here in Droves !!
    I've got 10 Kids how Much will I get ?
    Adrianus
    30th Nov 2015
    7:27pm
    It must be above the average wage?
    Adrianus
    30th Nov 2015
    7:31pm
    I remember talking to a father with one wife and 11 kids. He had a secure government job with good salary. His welfare was 21% higher than his salary.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    9:30pm
    Fready: lets not bandy the numbers around so as to come up with a solution that pensioners are paid too much.
    Leys just COLLECT TAXES FROM THE GREEDY MULTINATIONALS. I understand that would bring in around $75 billion a year. Then you won't have to post a 'we can't afford pensions' slogan.
    Peterrj
    1st Dec 2015
    1:45am
    Fready, I just love mick's response to your post, 'let's not bandy the numbers around'! Instead let's just tax the rich and tax them once more and, in any case, we don't really want the rich to live here!!! WT???

    Like it or not the social welfare bill is getting out of control! Solution, borrow more to pay for more on social welfare?

    Our children's children will grow up with a huge debt and ask, why did 'we' allow this to occur?

    Alas, there is no rational debate here ......
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    9:59am
    Peterrj: not really mate. My take is that the rich are a part of society and need to pay their part...not have special outs. Sorry you are rich but how would you feel if you were earning $80 000 pa and in a relatively high tax rate whilst the guy down the road was earning $1 million a year and paying less than 10 cents in the dollar? It happens!
    And for your information if the rich do not want to pay their fair share then they can indeed bugger off to some other country where they can get away with avoiding tax and sting average citizens for their dues.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    11:02am
    mick read the story of this man who was a small boy at the time of the great depression. here's a snippet to whet your appetite.

    At the age of five Ingvar Kamprad starts selling matches to his nearby neighbours and by the time he is seven, he starts selling further afield, using his bicycle. He finds that he can buy matches in bulk cheaply in Stockholm and re-sell them individually at a very low price but still make a good profit. From matches he expands to selling flower seeds, greeting cards, Christmas tree decorations, and later pencils and ball-point pens.

    Find out what he did in 1973.
    TREBOR
    2nd Dec 2015
    12:30am
    I don't ever recall begrudging (grinching) my older relatives their pension in old age. Never even entered my mind that they had no right to it.

    We've paid our pension contribution for fifty years - what's wrong with collecting it on time?
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    9:17am
    Only a Liberal government would do that whilst it gives tax cuts to its wealthy supporters. This is the ultimate betrayal of the population which owns this nation. But you wouldn't think so when the lying low life get in front of the cameras.
    Glen48
    30th Nov 2015
    8:16pm
    We are saved the Feds are going to inject 700M in to Rural towns to support the Syrian Refugees
    particolor
    30th Nov 2015
    9:46pm
    HOORAY !!!
    Peterrj
    1st Dec 2015
    10:10am
    Glen48, it's only fair, seeing that fairness is the main test in many of these postings, it's only fair that the Lucky Country shares it's weath with the rest of the world. Why not??? One of my mates got lucky. He said that the harder he work the more lucky he became.
    Franky
    30th Nov 2015
    9:02pm
    Mismanagement of public funds is in your face in Australia! The public 'service' is bloated and inefficient, money is spent on things most of us would not agree with and which have bi partisan support - I'm talking about the military expenditure which takes a large chunk out of the budget. Refugee resettlement is another area big dollars could be saved by more efficient processing and letting people work once they are on a temporary visa. We are burdened by too much bureaucracy and red tape which all costs money and discourages innovation and entrepreneurs.
    At fault is mainly the system of government we have with short terms of three years only. This discourages long term planning. Also compulsory voting lowers the level of political debate and the quality of our politicians. Lots of room for improvement but I can't see it happen, the political two party system is entrenched for better or worse.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    9:36pm
    I agree with the first part but would never want to see a bad government entrenched for more than 3 years. Imagine the current bunch of lying business owned misfits? Imagine what they would do to average citizens given what we have seen them try on so far?
    You are right about how public money is used. On that point the current government should have been dissolved after the $80 million Royal Commission into unions given that this came up almost entirely empty and given that it was yet another Liberal Party political scam. Where is the media on this? Why is there not universal condemnation of this government for having run this political stunt and sending us the bill. I call on the bill being sent to Liberal Party HQ, to be paid by the Liberal Party and/or its big business sponsors....not the public.

    30th Nov 2015
    9:02pm
    As George Bernard Shaw said; If all the economists were laid end to end, they'd never reach a conclusion. As regards the welfare payments, as sure as night follows day, there will be a small group of thieves who are rorting the welfare system. Although the group will be small as compared with genuine welfare recipients, there is a significant amount involved.

    Just as our personal budget must be adjusted when outgoings exceed incomes, the Government has to start somewhere. In a household, giving up a bought coffee each day seems insignificant but over a year will reduce expenditure by a sizable amount. It will be the same for exposing welfare cheats, the amounts recovered will be significant over a period.

    In all fairness, I don't think that the present Government, or any Government for that matter, will want to deprive genuine claimants of their entitlement but we expect welfare cheats to be caught and dealt with. We also expect that Government should look inward and stop the claims by MP's that don't pass the 'Pub Test'. I won't agree with paying out for families to visit MP's who are doing the job they have chosen until the families of serving military also achieve the same conditions. They are also doing the job they have chosen. Please feel free to add to the list of Polly Rorts.
    MICK
    30th Nov 2015
    9:40pm
    What you are discussing is PRUDENT MANAGEMENT. The problem with governments in general and this one specifically is that governments believe that budgets are not for them because they can easily raise more money with the stroke of a pen. That is the problem.
    As far as this government not wanting to deprive genuine claimants of funds I believe you are dead wrong. This government has already shown that it is after average citizens whilst talking the talk of tax cuts for the big end of town. There is no empathy. Only ruel business with the clear intention of transferring money from the poor to the rich. As I always say: follow the money trail and you understand who is in charge. Not rocket science.
    particolor
    30th Nov 2015
    9:43pm
    "Polly wants a Polly Waffle ! NOW !!"
    Peterrj
    1st Dec 2015
    2:01am
    In think that this is a load of Polly 'Waffle'!!!
    wendan31
    1st Dec 2015
    1:51am
    Why does the poor old pensioner always get slammed, we have all paid our taxes over the years, if the Government want's to save a few cents then take the exhorbitant pensions off the Pollies who have finished their time in politics, I personally know of one ex-pollie who did his term in the WA State Government, got a huge payout, went into Federal Politics, did his term and now gets a pension from BOTH the State AND Federal Governments, GREEDY, GREEDY, GREEDY, his one pension covers my pension for quite a few years.
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    9:19am
    Answer: because most pensions refuse to become involved in the debate and put it up to political parties who do them over. You get what you deserve I am sorry to say.
    PIXAPD
    1st Dec 2015
    7:55am
    MY budget is always in surplus........
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    9:37am
    Yes PIX, I run my budget like Singapore's. Spend within my means. Singapore is required under its constitution to keep a balanced budget over each term of government. Singapore government debt is issued for investment purposes, not to fund expenditure. They limit Government spending to around 15% of GDP, that way they can afford welfare, health, education, infrastructure and plenty of incentive for workers and businesses by minimising taxes.
    PIXAPD
    1st Dec 2015
    9:45am
    Please see my comments in 'Why do women retire in poverty' where I say the full age pension is plenty and you should be able to save some
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    11:06am
    PIX, I can recall you stating that here a few times and attracting many howling in disagreement.
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    9:19am
    Good one PIXAPD. There should be more of it.
    Fready
    1st Dec 2015
    4:35pm
    I keep reading rubbish from Mick about how the "rich" don't pay their way. Well Mick and others who agree with him please read http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/no-the-rich-dont-pay-a-fair-share-of-tax-they-pay-all-of-it/story-e6frgd0x-1226841174461
    Those of us who worked for wages essentially paid no tax and some will take much more out of the system than they ever put in.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    4:46pm
    Yes Fready, good spotting!! That was a timely article in response to when Labor were banging away hard to start a class war. mick is continuing to parrot the political message.
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    9:25am
    What a lot of crap. Average people always get hit the hardest. Even Warren Buffett lambasted the fact that his (percentage) tax rate was less than that of his secretary.
    FYI one in five Australian private companies earning OVER $100 million a year PAID NO TAX last year!!
    Also, most multinationals pay much less than 10 cents in the dollar tax when the going rate is 30 cents in the dollar. This is a shortfall of about $75 billion a year made up by taxpayers.
    Please tell your nonsense to somebody who wants to believe.
    Adrianus
    4th Dec 2015
    10:19am
    Fready, there is so much tax churning that people may think they are paying tax when they are not. The average household may have tax taken from their income but it is returned via social security.
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    10:46am
    So here we have it again. Frank (a la Liberal Party) deceiving readers again.
    Direct tax is but one small part of the total mix with THIS GOVERNMENT after everything that AVERAGE AUSTRALIANS OWN. Make no mistake about that.
    How about mention GST (15%?), payroll tax, sales tax (petrol and alcohol?) and higher than inflation increases in government changes as well as less rebates (Medicare)? So you want to talk about income tax Frank? WELL TALK ABOUT TAX And you'll see Australians are paying close to the highest rates on the planet.....and this government wants more!

    1st Dec 2015
    6:11pm
    please Fready don't mention the "rich" to labor mick, he get too worked up and is having sleepless night just thinking of them, we don't like him to stop his insane and inane comments to these articles, after all we all like a good laugh.
    Franzl
    1st Dec 2015
    7:03pm
    Since when has the age pension become a welfare payment. When I came to Australia in 1961 I was told that part of my taxes will entitle me to a pension. I do not like our system. In Europe all countries I know of have a government superannuation which entitles one to a pension regardless of assets. They are not defined benefit schemes. Our super is a millionaires factory to the detriment of the pensioners. And another problem : When is the government taxing the robots the same as the worker it replaces ?
    particolor
    1st Dec 2015
    8:05pm
    Exactly ! The Pension Lollies were Stolen Long ago here !! By our Help Yourself Government ! It use be the Way You described, until recently when they Decided to lump all the Unclean into the same basket !
    I love that Millionaires Factory ! :-) :-)
    Cant wait for Micks Approval of it ! :-)
    NOT !!
    TREBOR
    2nd Dec 2015
    12:38am
    Once again - here is the proof positive:-

    http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/94713ad445ff1425ca25682000192af2/8e72c4526a94aaedca2569de00296978!OpenDocument

    The attempt to hide the Social Security Contribution in Consolidated Revenue makes not one iota of difference to the fact that it is still there. It was nothing more than a transparent attempt to create the illusion that this component of taxation no longer existed, and thus the right to a pension no longer existed.

    Failed dismally, though.
    particolor
    2nd Dec 2015
    7:36pm
    Nothing up My Sleeve !
    Bullwinkle .. :-)
    double j
    1st Dec 2015
    11:12pm
    Economist are there to make the weather forecasters look good !!!!!!
    particolor
    2nd Dec 2015
    7:42pm
    Tomorrow we will have Climate Change !
    Today it was Raining !
    Tomorrow FINE !! :-)
    Glen48
    2nd Dec 2015
    9:42pm
    See Julie Bishop spent 30K on jet hire to fly her and boyfriend to a do ...so there is no shortage of loot..
    particolor
    2nd Dec 2015
    10:03pm
    Last Chance for the Mile High Club !! :-)
    Adrianus
    3rd Dec 2015
    11:06am
    Forget the glen20 hand me the glen48!!
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    10:48am
    So vote for an INDEPENDENT and put the bastards out of business. Whilst we allow the game to go on as it is we have to wear the abuses, dishonesty and corruption. Why would they ever stop?
    Adrianus
    4th Dec 2015
    11:32am
    A vote for an independent is a vote for the Unions/ALP.
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    12:29pm
    Only if the INdependent gives his/her preference to that side of politics. At any rate would anybody really give the congenital liars loosely called 'the government' their preference. Labor might be the worst of 2 rotten eggs but at least Labor is not a wholly owned subsidiary of big business.
    Adrianus
    4th Dec 2015
    12:41pm
    Don't wager any of your rental properties on that mick. There was a reason Keating didn't want big business to disclose their tax position to the public. Anyway for the most part the Greens have helped the government correct that. We will soon see who is in who's pocket.
    Bones
    3rd Dec 2015
    10:49am
    We now know that climate change is nonsense, it's those rascally Chinese jackets altering all the records on the BOMB site. ......ooooops, I mean bureau of metiorology ????
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    9:27am
    Go back into your hole mate. Clearly you do not watch the statistics or all of the science over the past 50 years. Better to stick to your 'belief'. Good luck with that one!
    Happy Jack
    3rd Dec 2015
    12:30pm
    Does this conservative LIEberal govt really know what they are on about economically. REMEMBER-; this is the mob that told us prior to the last election- WE WILL PRODUCE A SURPLUS IN OUR FIRST YEAR IN OFFICE AND EVERY YEAR AFTER THAT. what have we know- the highest debt ridden, highest spending, highest taxing, biggest budget deficit producing govt in the history of this country. Geez even Gough could manage 4 consecutive budget surpluses.
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    9:32am
    You forget Happy Jack that the current government is on lying steroids. They never had any intention on carrying through on any policy other than repaying the mining industry generally and coal industry specifically as well as the Murdoch empire for getting them into government. The irony is that whilst Hockey was in Australia talking about "lifters and leaners" and about a "budget emergency" in New Zealand he was reputed to have said we had no budget emergency of any sort. This has been backed up many times by economists and certainly comparing to the rest of the developed world that would seem to be the case.
    What we have a bunch of political charlatans masquerading as politicians working for the nation. The current lot are wolves in sheep's clothing and retirees need to ban together and vote them out.
    Adrianus
    4th Dec 2015
    10:23am
    Happy Jack are you seriously suggesting you don't know that the books were opened to this government only after the election?
    There was no way they could have known how much of a mess labor gave them.
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    10:52am
    Ha, ha, ha. You crack me up Frank. Like your Liberal Party you are oozing dishonesty.
    ANd whilst we are at is......why did this government REMOVE THE DEBT CEILING when Labor never had to resort to this? And why has so so much money been wasted with Royal Commissions which NEVER got the scalps they were set up to get? And then lets talk about the annual bill to taxpayers of $8 BILLION which we got when this government repealed the Carbon Tax....a tax which is now being called on for the rest of the planet because IT WORKS?
    Your posts are little more than advertising from the LIberal Party trying to massage public opinion so that an easily led public again votes for it. Not on my watch Frank.
    Adrianus
    4th Dec 2015
    11:41am
    mick you know very well that Labor should have raised the debt ceiling before they went into caretaker mode. Shows their behaviour at the time and why they were called the children of politics. Playground antics. Similar to current antics of blocking legislation so that they can call it a broken promise. Labor didn't learn a thing, but then their followers are not very sophisticated and those who are expect to get rewarded for bending over. Which category are you in mick?
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    12:27pm
    Ha, ha, ha. THEY DIDN'T. You are doing what your government ALWAYS does...blame the other side. Still happening after 2 years after a huge hit to our economy compliments to this government sending taxpayer money to their mates in the big end of town.
    Your crap does not wash. It is a lie...as usual.
    Adrianus
    4th Dec 2015
    12:32pm
    look at hansard.
    Bones
    3rd Dec 2015
    1:41pm
    So happy jack, you believe that the liberal party alone are responsible for this huge deficit? Only a very short memory would blame one party mate. They are ALL too blame for this mess. Labour inherited a SURPLUS when elected, it WAS NOT there when they got there arse's kicked out mate! In fact there was a huge deficit AGAIN. Blame all of em not just the one you love to hate.
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    9:35am
    Both sides have cause the debt. Sadly YOU missed the fact that there was a GFC when Labor won office. Funny that.
    The huge debt you talk about is a figment of Liberal Party propaganda. You need to have a look at where Australia sits in comparison with the rest of the developed world. Even Hockey whilst in New Zealand was reputed to have said that Australia was in good shape and had a small debt. So much for propaganda picked up by the feeble minded.
    Adrianus
    4th Dec 2015
    10:26am
    So mick, when Rudd told us we will not be affected. It is something that is happening in the US. Was he lying or incompetent? Or both?
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    10:56am
    Rudd shielded Australia from the unemployment queue. My trips to the US show just how bad it was there but whilst you run the government line propaganda you never bother to state this.
    If you want "lying" and "incompetent" you could never go past Tony Abbott and this government in general. Historians will remember this government for the low life creatures which are in charge. The most despicable people one could ever hope (not) to meet! Present company excepted............?
    Adrianus
    4th Dec 2015
    11:29am
    I'm sorry mick. Did I touch a nerve when I spoke about Rudd? I recall those days. Like many of us, we were all very attentive to the messages from Henry or Rudd or anyone else whom we thought may know more than us punters. I remember what Rudd said and I remember what he didn't say. He is the person most responsible for our current budget mess because he didn't force his hand on union demands. Gillard can share some responsibility as well. I still don't know why us Australian taxpayers needed to donate money to the Clinton's election fund?
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    12:25pm
    Next change of subject from your sponsor Frank?
    Let's stay on task:

    1. Australians did not suffer unemployment and financial meltdown. Compliments Rudd government and China!
    2. Unions have NOTHING to do with this argument. This is simply the pet hate of this government because its sponsors, big business, want to turn this country into the next America and send 90% of all wealth to the top 1%.

    Whilst unions may well need an overhaul SO TOO DOES THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THIS GOVERNMENT AND BIG BUSINESS. Show us where the money comes from for election campaigns Frank and tell us what the payoff is for the big end of town. Repeal of Carbon Tax and Mining Tax? Kill of banking reforms to protect citizens from bank fraud? Leaving Tax Shelters as they are and not closing the superannuation Tax Shelter?

    Yeah right Frank. Go look in the mirror. It must irk you.
    Happy Jack
    4th Dec 2015
    10:09am
    And so here we have it! the country in dire straights, economically. Why then can we afford another gallivanting bishop taking up 40 seats in an air force jet at a cost of $30,000. The sojourn gene in that family is sure running wild. With that sort of extravagance no wonder we can't afford a respectful, decent pension system.
    Adrianus
    4th Dec 2015
    10:29am
    You obviously haven't heard about her Brazil trip? :) They are all milking it for what its worth some more than others.
    particolor
    4th Dec 2015
    8:44pm
    OOO OO OOO I go to Rio !! :-) :-)
    Happy Jack
    4th Dec 2015
    10:45am
    Bones! in Australia we spell Labour (as in Pomy land ) 'LABOR' and we spell Liberal (as in England ) 'LIEberal' party,
    which after all really sums up for what they are. At least Julia, to my recollection only told the one; this mob! well their record speaks for itself.
    MICK
    4th Dec 2015
    11:00am
    Thank you for your honesty. That is not something that you are going to get from Frank and the governments hacks who keep trying to demonise Gillard when she was actually 'doing the business' in a most professional manner.
    History will judge Gillard much better than the biased big end of town owned media and Abbott for the low coal owned stoolie he showed himself to be. A pity Gillard had to lie to do what was in the interests of the country but that is where history will come down oh her side and demonise Abbott for his treachery and deceit.....as it should.
    Happy Jack
    4th Dec 2015
    1:18pm
    And whilst we're on about Julia- at least she copped it sweet, not like dumb struck tony from the LIEberal party who wouldn't rock up for an interview for days and sat sullen on the back bench. What a contrast between these two! This red headed, fat $#@$ bitch, which she was commonly and crudely referred as, had the guts and fortitude to set up the royal commission into institutionalised protected paedophilic organizations so long shielded from scrutiny by Governments of both persuasions. She stands applauded, in my book.
    Anonymous
    6th Dec 2015
    4:43pm
    happy jack, how long have you been a paid up member of your beloved red labor party, must be hard up having a crush on julia, are you sure you'r not mixing her with the julia and romeo opera?
    Fready
    6th Dec 2015
    9:00pm
    The only hope of a budget surplus is for the Government to get its spending under control. Where will we find a Government with the ability to explain this to the population and take the necessary action. Governments have learned that once it gives a benefit it is extremely difficult to take it back.
    MiningMagnet
    7th Dec 2015
    11:12am
    A quick look at any government figures will confirm that the 'welfare' numbers paid to 'dole bludgers' 'refugees' or 'unwanted immigrants' is chicken feed when compared to corporate welfare. it is just more difficult to trace corporate and primary industry handouts, because they are called so many different names....
    The issue is that welfare provided to those without resource to re-define the process is called welfare
    Welfare to those with resources to re-define the process is called another name eg 'R & D allowances', 'drought relief' , innovation initiatives, or - and my personal favourite - 'tax relief' .....this last is a piece of language usage that bears further examination and perhaps reveals the view of the right that the working class should shoulder the greater proportion of the tax burden ....hahahahahah. I love this concept and the right's ability to spin it to the working class (I do not under-estimate the role played by a right-dominated media either...)
    I run my own business and occasionally work for friends who require it, when I am a director and I drive to work - it is deductable, when I am a casual PAYE and drive to work it is ' commuting' and not deductible...hahahahahahah...ask the tradies if they prefer to work for an employer or for themselves...hahahahhaha
    No surprise in guessing for whom the tax laws are written then...hahahahahahaha
    The corporate 'welfare' paid to me is my access to tax benefits that are denied people doing exactly the same thing but whose access has been denied by a double-standard definition that deliberately excludes those least likely to be able to 're-define' their tax position...again ....no surprise to see for whom the tax laws were written
    I am reminded of a very special Russ Hinze comment - when confronted by clear evidence of underhanded dealing he replied - "People would think we were stupid if we could do it and we didn't"...hahahahahah. ....but nonetheless a very revealing insight into the predatory nature of our elected officials
    Australia has been poorly led in business and politics for many years, the only surprise to me is that so few people actually choose to inform themselves about the depth of rorts being enjoyed by those with resource to pursue them
    But I guess as long as people choose to be fed information rather than acquire it themselves - because the latter requires effort and insight - we should not expect any better than the depth of discussion we see here.
    Heaven forbid that we should expect anything new from our leadership - increase GST and reduce wages....that is it ??....
    Last time I checked we were a consumer-based economy. The most recent test of that (the GFC) revealed that double-digit unemployment and a small business crash can be avoided if most of the population has disposable income - hence the success of the economic stimulii - at both population and bank handout levels.
    We need people to spend for our economy to function
    Whatever else we know about the GST is that the last mouth in the food chain pays
    Brilliant - increase cost to consumer, reduce income to consumer - that will really kick things along.....hahahahahahah
    Fantastic !....gee whiz, I'll be really interested to see where all the "GST compensation payment" income comes from ..hahahahahah
    particolor
    7th Dec 2015
    11:41am
    Just hear on the Radio that the Abbott Government Wasted 30 thousand Dollars a DAY on Taxi Fares in the First 3 Months of taking Office ??? :-( SHOW ME THE MONEY !! :-)


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