Analysis reveals that $15 billion in welfare is paid to non-citizens

Analysis reveals that 870,000 non-citizens receive about $15 billion a year in welfare.

Analysis reveals that $15 billion in welfare is paid to non-citizens

Analysis requested by Liberal Democrat senator David Leyonhjelm has revealed that around 870,000 non-citizens receive about $15 billion a year in welfare benefits.

Non-citizens claiming Australian welfare mostly hail from Britain, New Zealand, Africa and the Middle East.

The information provided by the Parliamentary Budget Office (PBO), estimates that around 710,000 non-citizens, who claim an average of $17,500 annually, hail from countries with which Australia has no social security agreement, account for around 83 per cent of the $15 billion total.

“At present, around 2.5 million (non-citizens) live in Australia and are eligible for welfare,” said Senator Leyonhjelm. “While I believe refugees should continue to be eligible for welfare to help them find their feet, the vast majority of non-citizens are not refugees and should not require handouts.”

The remainder consists of over 150,000 non-citizens from countries with which Australia does have a reciprocal agreement, such as New Zealand and India.

UK citizens are the largest group at 170,000, followed by African and Middle Eastern citizens at 90,000 and Chinese citizens at 50,000.

In Australia, pension eligibility is determined by residence rather than citizenship. If a non-citizen lives in Australia for 10 years, they are eligible for the Age Pension.

Australia is one of the few OECD nations where somebody who doesn’t work can receive benefits.

The PBO figures raise questions about the generosity of Australia’s welfare system, and whether welfare payments should be confined to Australian citizens, except where a reciprocal social security agreement is in place with a non-citizen’s nation of origin.

Senator Leyonhjelm suggested that, should welfare be limited to Australian citizens, it “will discourage those with poor job prospects from coming to Australia, and will build support for immigration within the Australian community”.

The Federal Government currently spends $158.6 billion per annum on welfare and this figure is projected to rise to $191 billion by 2020.

Opinion: More to consider than ‘welfare’

Non-citizens being paid $15 billion in welfare benefits will surely raise some alarm bells, but it’s worth remembering a few other factors.

Many non-citizens who come to Australia will require assistance to help them get their feet on the ground, after which, many will start businesses that will eventually contribute to the economy and create jobs for others.

Many people assume that welfare recipients actually want to be on welfare – this is simply not the case. Sure, there are some who won’t work in a fit, but they are not limited to non-citizens. And the welfare paid out to these non-citizens is not necessarily Newstart.

Considering that most non-citizens and migrants will flock to where the work is – Melbourne and Sydney – the housing affordability issues in these capital cities means that a large number of people on low-income wages need rent assistance simply to get by.

Immigration is necessary for the success of our economy. Looking back to years past, the European migration post WW2 and then the Vietnamese migration in the late 1970s both led to economic booms for Australia. At the time, this migration was seen as a burden. In hindsight, it was a blessing.

The current migration of Middle Eastern and African citizens should eventually pay dividends for our bottom line, but first, these people need help to live week to week. So then, should we look at this $15 billion, which is 10 per cent of the total cost of welfare, as an investment rather than an expense?

By limiting welfare to Australian citizens, the people who’ll suffer most will be the ones stripped of their 457 visas. They may be here to work, but will be denied even low-income employment and will have to rely on ‘charity’ to get by. This makes it somewhat of a catch 22 – want to work but can’t, but also cannot receive welfare.

And what of the foreign-owned multinational corporations that continue to dodge paying tax in Australia? This sets us back at least $6 billion each year, so why isn’t this foregone revenue seen as welfare paid to foreigners?

Senator Leyonhjelm’s point that refugees should be entitled to the help they need to get a start in their new home and that anyone hailing from a country where we have a reciprocal agreement in place should also have access to welfare is a good one. If we limit assistance to those who need it, rather than those who are simply taking advantage of our generosity, it will ease pressure on the budget and, hopefully, improve Australians’ perception of immigration.

Do you think Senator Leyonhjelm makes a valid point? Should welfare be limited to Australian citizens only? If the Government stuck to its ‘jobs and growth’ mantra, would this be such an issue? Would the Government be better served by making foreign-owned companies pay their fair share of tax, rather than focusing on welfare paid to non-citizens?

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    COMMENTS

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    Old Geezer
    9th May 2017
    10:23am
    Simple if you don't live here then you don't get any welfare.
    Sweatshop Greed
    9th May 2017
    10:32am
    But they do live there, don't they?
    They are not Australian citizens. I think you are getting confused with Australians living oversea and getting the pension, like me.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    11:35am
    Great article Leon. This is a discussion we should be having.
    The problem we have is that Australia is a really soft touch and that a growing number of people demand handouts for everything and believe they have rights. The thing that those who are non citizens never mention is that if Australian citizens went to their countries then they would not get the same deal. Funny how that information is always left out.
    I have been on a blog with kiwis before and boy do you get an earful when you question the fairness of handouts to this community.

    Australia needs to tighten up its rules. The question I have to ask is WHY do people come to live here, refuse to take out citizenship and then expect handouts. That makes no sense and it is long overdue that the gravy train was ended.
    Leon also makes a valid point about the continued blind eye from the current government which refuses to change the laws so that multinationals are forced to pay the CORRECT rate of tax on their earnings. A recent court decision against Google helps but the rorts are still there and the current government is still in bed with the big end of town refusing to legislate away the right to not pay tax.

    Australia may be the place we all call home but it is a proper baske case. You realise this when you travel abroad and see how other nations do things. Our most recent trip to France demonstrated that roads can be build en masse and cheaply. The overpriced poorly constructed roads in Australia which crumble after a short time are a joke but welcome to failed government. This pervades our society and you understand why we bleed money. It is handed out like lollies at a children's birthday party and the wonderful assets we have are basically given away as our country sees little benefit in the longer term. It makes you want to cry.
    Rosret
    9th May 2017
    12:13pm
    Yes, Mick it is an interesting article. Of course there needs to be an analysis of the why. Some have been in Australia forever and just haven't become citizens.
    People born in Britain early last century were not expected to become citizens - they just are.
    I am not sure that Leon's comments about immigrants from the Middle East and Africa being of future benefit. They are huge burden on the welfare system as they marry young and have a very high birth rate.

    I think from a more general perspective, the days of a large number of children in one family needs to have a government benefit ceiling.
    P$cript
    9th May 2017
    1:30pm
    Great comment OG as article has nothing to do with those living over seas.
    Just remember you are living off the government welfare in the form of negative gearing and capital gains on you empty houses.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    1:47pm
    Rosret: When my daughter was involved in Little Athletics I recall one instance at a state carnival. We were sitting in the stands at the beginning with my daughter's main (club) rival and her parents. They had been in Australia for many years and the daughter was born here.
    when the national anthem was played the mother of the girl said to her daughter "don't stand we're British". I can't tell you how that one got in my craw.
    As an imigrant myself I became a loyal Aussie and despite when I arrived and despite misgivings with how this country is (badly) run and the current right wing government governing for the rich I AM AUSTRALIAN. For those who say they are not I say GO HOME.
    A bit harsh perhaps but you are either one of us or not. Make a choice. No exclusions there.
    The social security system should not be there for immigrants of any persuasion to abuse but that is the reality....along with a growing number of our own.
    Old Geezer
    9th May 2017
    1:55pm
    I don't own any houses or use negative gearing as negative gearing is a mugs game.
    Old Geezer
    9th May 2017
    1:59pm
    What about all those guardianship visas the Chinese now use so their kids from the age of 6 can go to school here?
    tia-maria
    9th May 2017
    7:32pm
    sweatshop greed......your the one getting confused??????....old Geezer is making an honest statement............too much has been given to migrants living here in our country and needs to be a stop......their been given place to live in/food/medical and the list goes on.......shame out government they don't give us more consideration after all we worked hard and paid our taxes for what???
    JAID
    13th May 2017
    12:01pm
    I think this a well considered article; I appreciate your views too Mick. We are an easy touch. Yet this shouldnt be a black and white thing. If somebody has contributed to society here for years and wants to remain then I think where assistance is needed it is terrific that it is available.

    I imagine myself in another country. I would not relinquish the knowledge that I am Australian but that would not mean that I could not respect that other country nor shoulder its burdens. Many here are similar, they identify with the Country while being a citizen of elsewhere. Of those naturally as with other areas there are bludgers and those making real contribution.

    With the resources we have, the education, the facilities and the will there is no reason for anybody to go cold, wet or hungry nor to be cowered by their condition. If we were reasonable there would also be no need to be lavish inresponding to those needs either.
    tisme
    9th May 2017
    10:27am
    mum has lived here since 1968, worked hard , paid taxes now she is 83 and on an aged pension. should she be denied it ??
    Slimmer Cat
    9th May 2017
    11:14am
    No once you have lived here for a minimum of 10 years you are entitled to receive the aged pension.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    1:57pm
    Perhaps the criteria needs to be tightened a bit. Living here is different to contributing (= working here) and maybe the time needs to be stretched out to 25 years.
    Australia has to close the opportunity of some arrivals, boat or otherwise, from coming to the land of milk and honey with the intention of never working and being kept with all the add-ons which are available. This is bad management and it is wrong.
    Biku
    9th May 2017
    10:33am
    There is group of recent arrivals who will never contribute anything to the national economy and is welfare recipient. As a matter of fact this group is costing the country more (in the form of security) because of its activities. They should all be sent back where they came from.
    Paulodapotter
    9th May 2017
    11:32am
    OMG, you still exist?
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:00pm
    You have a valid point Biku despite the hecklers. The only thing I would say is that we are not talking about all of our new arrivals but I venture to say the number would be significant.
    I support work for the dole. The reason: everybody needs to contribute something, even if it is only 3 days a week. Having returned from France in the past week I can tell you that public places are not cesspits and gardens in parks are not neglected and overgrown with weeds.
    tia-maria
    9th May 2017
    7:52pm
    Biku point taken mate
    niemakawa
    9th May 2017
    7:54pm
    Most definitely. They have nothing to offer Australia.
    TREBOR
    9th May 2017
    9:32pm
    Hmm - similarly with some strands of Judaism - it is a 'full-time job' to be a learned man, and the community and your family pay for that... since without the 'learned men' there would be no discussion or advancement of social issues....

    So if I belong to a certain social group, I am fully entitled to not work but be paid for my learned wisdom... is this not only meet in the eyes of (whoever)?

    (hmmmm.... just hmmmmmmmmmm)....
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    10:53pm
    A bit different TREBOR. People invited to fill a role are totally different to people who put their feet in the door and then cry discrimination whilst demanding they are your responsibility.
    It's a hard ask. To be christian one should take pity and help....and then you are demonised because you say enough is enough. Can't win.
    JAID
    13th May 2017
    12:10pm
    Again, with you Mick. Everyone has the right to contribute. This, if only because we don't want or need people starving on the streets. There should be no question that work be created so that you can provide for yourself/family when you are unable to find sufficient work yourself. If work for the dole does that, great, if it doesnt it needs to morph into something that does and it should morph into something universal for the fit-to-work.

    There is opportunity out there. Where some are not sufficiently enterprising to find it there is an opportunity for government in promoting or finding it.
    Misty
    13th May 2017
    3:43pm
    With new technology doing away with a lot of jobs now it is going to be increasingly difficult to find work for everyone. I had an email from a site in the USA saying how online shopping is playing havoc with even the big stores like Macy's, shares are dropping too, as the author of this email said, why go to a store, sometimes stand in a que, with rude store assistants when you can order online from the comfort of your home and have it delivered to your doorstep in 24 hrs, he was referring to shopping with Amazon, who will be here in Australia very soon so more department store jobs could be lost here too.
    Not Senile Yet!
    9th May 2017
    10:39am
    This is a Con by the Government in the form of Propaganda!
    Whilst Welfare Payments are rising...they simply forget to State that their Taxation Income has also Doubled and in some areas Tripled due to the Increased Population and increased workers paying tax!
    They fudge the numbers and only tell Half the Story....ie the Negative Half!
    If they simply made ALL Corporations pay a lousy 10% of their profit in Tax to acces an ABN Number.....then they would NOT have a budget issue!
    Letting them off with No Tax is basically Subsidising them by relying on the Workers only!
    Putting a 5% levy on All Mining Exports would assist them to run Medicare & free up money for other much needed Infrastructure!
    This Govt simply refuses to tackle Free Loading Corporate Companies that refuse to pay any tax whatsoever!
    Ikantu
    9th May 2017
    12:36pm
    Every political party that has been in power, or opposition, has had input into our current social benefit system. I suggest we get off the politics and start putting constructive comments in place.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:03pm
    Certainly true of Stamp Duty on real estate. Bracket creep is real but the states do not believe they should take less but only ever more. So effectively under whatever name keep going up. Have a look at your council rates bill from 10 years ago and today. You will be horrified.
    dante
    9th May 2017
    11:00am
    As usual, Senator Leyonhjelm demonstrates his true xenophobic and racists self.

    People that come to Australia do so with a clear intent to work and progress. As clearly pointed out in the article, migration has ALWAYS been advantageous to Australia, but Leyonhjelm (I wonder where his ancestors come from as the name and the colour of his skin does not identify him as Aboriginal!) ignores that because. It is not his fault, he just never developed that part of his brain that would allow him to reason, so let me do it for him.

    Migrants that would be entitled to welfare although not citizens, need to be herefor a qualifying period, and I'm sure that, given a choice, they would prefer to work and pay taxes then live on the miserable government handouts.

    These migrants did NOT burden Australia with health care after they were born, they did not consume Australian resources to school them up to adulthood, they arrived work-ready and a very large portion of them, like me, were paying taxes after less than 1 week in Australia.

    How much does it cost Australia to keep a child from birth to being work-ready? Has this idiot consider that before fronting up with facts and figures that tell only a very small part of the story?

    Are Australian voters so stupid to elect idiot like David Leyonhjelm to be our lawmakers? This person is repugnant in almost all comments he makes.

    He is firmly attached to the tits of Welfare, just like his mate Hanson, as he and people like him would not be able to make a living on their own outside politics.

    Poor fellow my country with people like these in position of influence.
    Kaz
    9th May 2017
    11:15am
    I am not quite sure that you have a great argument here. Are you saying that Australian children born to Australian parents are a burden? Or children born to non- Australian parents are a burden or both? Are you able to vote? If not, why not? Another vote NOT for Leyonhjelm would be helpful. There are many facets to this discussion, such as those pollies who say pensioners are a burden - those that worked all their lives in Australia and paid taxes or those who came as aged immigrants? Pollies are a burden, as are companies who pay no tax.
    Slimmer Cat
    9th May 2017
    11:31am
    I think you might find David Leyonhjelm (Australian born from Swedish ancestry) could make a very good living apart from being a politician. He is a Veterinarian, has a Bachelor of Laws and a Master of Business Administration degrees.
    dante
    9th May 2017
    11:34am
    To Slimmer Cat. I think the operative word in your comment is "could make" , the fact that he opted for politics on a Libertarian platform after he failed on all his other adventures demonstrates how desperate he is.
    Teddy
    9th May 2017
    12:53pm
    Is there any successful person you admire Dante?
    Wstaton
    9th May 2017
    1:11pm
    Having degrees and all that does not necessarily embide one with common sense.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:04pm
    If every migrant 'worked' dante I would agree with you. The reality is that many do not.
    mogo51
    9th May 2017
    11:00am
    Totally agree.
    mogo51
    9th May 2017
    11:06am
    Time. Totally different scenario. Your mother has lived and worked in Australia for 49 yrs. More than half her life. We are talking about non citizens with little residency qualifications here - no they should not get benefits.
    Go to Asian countries; European countries. US etc and put your hand out and see what you get.
    dante
    9th May 2017
    11:14am
    Please consult this link prior to making a comment otherwise you may not be informed enough to comment.

    Just because a country, which incidentally may not need or require migrants, does not have certain benefits for migrants does NOT justify what Australia does. Australia has relied and continues to rely on migrants. And that's FACT!!

    https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/subjects/payments-visa-holders
    Ted Wards
    9th May 2017
    1:48pm
    dante is correct. From the moment the first white settlement began in Australia, we have come from everywhere. This nation has been built off the back of migrants. Although many of us may be fourth or more generation Australian, the fact is we have all had family members that have come from somewhere. The only ones who can claim otherwise is our indigenous population.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:08pm
    Methinks you have a vested interest dante.

    I am also an immigrant but have been here most of my life. I became a citizen early on (all migrants should be required to be so to access any government handouts!) and I contributed all of my life. Why can't I expect my fellow inhabitants to do the same? And why should my hard work and that from all of us be taken by some who have no intention of working whilst they come up with excuses to bludge? That is not the Australian way.
    Jezemeg8
    9th May 2017
    11:08am
    I migrated from Canada with my family in 1962, and have never travelled anywhere, I've paid taxes etc all my working life, and now, after being deemed "too disabled to be employed" survive on a disability support pension. Despite needing a mobility scooter (which I paid for) to get around each night we (my furry companions and I) go out to do what we can to assist the homeless and street folk, most of whom have become our friends. As I grew up in this country (as a permanent resident) married and Australian and had children (all of whom are employed and paying taxes), I've not considered myself to be anything but Australian. I never saw the need to take out citizenship of a country I already considered my home. So, am I now to be stripped of my pension, and so need to join my friends on the streets?????
    Kaz
    9th May 2017
    11:19am
    Thanks for volunteering. My husband became a citizen, to show his commitment to Australia. It sounds like you are committed, as Australia is to you with a pension.
    Slimmer Cat
    9th May 2017
    11:23am
    Read the article. Once you have been here 10 years you are entitled to the aged pension. Under 10 years you get another form of welfare.
    Teddy
    9th May 2017
    12:55pm
    If you consider Australia to be home why will you not become a citizen?
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:09pm
    And is 10 years not stringent enough?
    Peanuts
    9th May 2017
    11:13am
    I came to Australia 25 years ago working for a multi-national on a 457. We loved it and stayed and became Australian citizens:
    - I worked as an accountant for a number of multinationals. Australia can not just arbitrarily tax them without breaching WTO agreements and they will always have smarter lawyers and accountants than our politicians and government officials. I can understand the frustration, but they are not breaking any laws. We also have a number of Australian companies investing overseas and we cannot have it both ways.
    - On welfare, if someone does not take on Australian citizenship (I have) after 10 years, one should question whether any welfare dependency indicates a very one sided relationship. It is not just about taxes (I am a Self Funded Retiree).
    Kaz
    9th May 2017
    11:23am
    Good points. However, just because that's the way it is, doesn't mean that's the way it should stay ????
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:11pm
    You sound like a rorter Peanuts.
    If you want to live here permanently you should become one of us (officially) and you should not be permitted to use accounting fiddles and loopholes left there by the government so that the rich can avoid their obligations. That is unAustralian.
    Trees
    10th May 2017
    1:41am
    Peanuts already stated he is a Australian Citizen, read what he said.

    Good idea MICK, Peanuts should tell the multinational company that pays his salary they are being naughty - bang, Peanuts is fired, on welfare & the multinational company employs someone else to do the job, the cycle goes on.

    Peanuts a rorter? not even close

    MICK out of touch with the real world - I think so
    MICK
    10th May 2017
    10:32am
    Trust somebody to pick the 1 in a 1000 case as an example. And you wonder why governments fail us all.
    Charlie
    9th May 2017
    11:22am
    The government has to do something to discourage people from coming here just for the welfare payments, when they don't get welfare payments in the country they came from.

    Why do we allow people to come here supposedly to get jobs, when there are no jobs to give them. Is it to reduce our basic wage,

    It seems that it's too easy to just come here and qualify for welfare straight away. These kind of complaints have been coming out of Britain and Europe too for the last few years, as they have been swamped with refugees who are not all refugees.
    dante
    9th May 2017
    11:31am
    Are you sure of your assertion that people come "here just for the welfare payments"? Have you lived on welfare? Why don't you try and then tell us what a wonderful you had sleeping rough, missing meals, wearing old clothes and begging ...

    Walk in someone else shoes before claiming how comfortable the shoes fit!!
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:14pm
    The do dante.
    If you come from the third world then being given money for free is like winning the Syrian lottery. Your challenge is indeed a fair call but you are comparing Australia with Australia not Australia with a third world nation.
    My call to you is to go to a third world nation and see how you go without government support. The smile will be on the other side of your face and you will quickly come to understand why these people come. IT IS NOT BECAUSE THEY LOVE US.
    niemakawa
    9th May 2017
    9:54pm
    @ I have to agree with you on this one Mick. As a comparison and I am sure the situation in Australia is no different, 80% of these so-called "migrants" who have walked into Europe are reliant on welfare and most believe they do not need to work as they were "invited".
    Kaz
    9th May 2017
    11:24am
    We need a like button like Facebook!
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:15pm
    I have been saying that for years but falling on deaf ears.
    dante
    9th May 2017
    11:26am
    To Kaz - I reply to his comment to mine.

    My argument is very simple: children born in Australia cost the Australian taxpayers a certain amount before they are work-ready. In comparison, migrants that come here work-ready has a negligible cost to Australian taxpayers and all the costs to reach adulthood was born by another country which now does not get the benefits of that expense.

    Once you put this into the equation as to whom welfare should be paid you would see that the argument put forward by this senator is WRONG.
    suzyq
    9th May 2017
    1:13pm
    I think what people are getting upset about is the many adult immigrants coming here that will never have a job and pay taxes. They will never even bother to learn English as that might make them employable.
    dante
    9th May 2017
    11:26am
    To Kaz - I reply to his comment to mine.

    My argument is very simple: children born in Australia cost the Australian taxpayers a certain amount before they are work-ready. In comparison, migrants that come here work-ready has a negligible cost to Australian taxpayers and all the costs to reach adulthood was born by another country which now does not get the benefits of that expense.

    Once you put this into the equation as to whom welfare should be paid you would see that the argument put forward by this senator is WRONG.
    Swinging voter
    9th May 2017
    11:29am
    Just pause immigration. It worked post WWII when we got people of similar religions, culures, social and family values and work ethics. The post WWII model is no longer working. All western countries are paying squillions$$$ in benefits to people who will never contribute anything to their countries except to try and change everything to suit their own ideas. There are many suburbs in this country overloaded with families who will never dig themselves out of poverty and their reliance on benefits akin to winning the lottery, considering their backgrounds. I'm just so fed up with politicians who have generated and fostered a massive immigrant benefits burden. Just look no further than the current disgraceful 457 case being endured by Mitchell Rock and his Kilcoy family. Outrageous that a hard working young Australian is at risk of losing his job because he protested wrong-doing. So stop feeling sorry for immigrants-on-benefits and start thinking about our own countrymen and women.
    AutumnOz
    9th May 2017
    1:24pm
    A shocking report and should not happen when so many of our citizens are unemployed.
    Similar things happened in the garment trade before most of the companies moved offshore.
    It does make life very difficult for young Australians to find a job.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:17pm
    Fully agree. The problem is politicians live and die with the ballot box and they fear a community turning against them. This is why our pollies are as weak as p*ss and should not be running the country. THEY ARE INCAPABLE OF WORKING FOR THE NATION!
    Paulodapotter
    9th May 2017
    11:31am
    This is the sort of nonsense that simply incites hatred against non-citizens and foreigners. A simple stroke of the pen makes them citizens and all of a sudden there is no welfare for non-citizens. The devil is in the detail and none of the detail is provided. Senator Leyonhjelm is just shoring up his fading support base in readiness for the acquisition of nutter Latham.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:18pm
    More to it than that. Find out how many take the pension and then return home for the last 30 years of their lives. Not exactly a handful.
    Swinging voter
    9th May 2017
    2:51pm
    The old "inciting hatred" method of shutting people up no longer works. Citizens of the western world have had a gutfull and are no longer taking what self-congratulating, virtue-signalling politicians have been force-feeding upon us. It's all over red rover. The free speech of long suffering silent workers, savers, family supporters, venture risk-takers, employers has suddenly been liberated largely due to the courage of outspoken leaders of similarly affected countries. The post 1970's multi-culti immigration experiment didn't work for Europe and the UK, it brought civil disruption to the US, it's negatively affecting the social make-up of Canada. The social and financial costs of politicians refusing to admit they were wrong now border on financial and social ruination for good, decent Australians.
    eggles01
    9th May 2017
    4:34pm
    paulodapotter,,if you are ashamed of being an Australian there are many many more countries you can go to,so why not just go????
    niemakawa
    9th May 2017
    4:36pm
    @eggles01, Exactly. Lots of room in Africa and the ME , paradise.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    5:14pm
    The way this country is run is shameful. What is even more shameful is that many amongst us are political correct parrots behaving like do gooders on steroids rather than putting it to the political all sorts we are not happy with their performance and that if they don't govern properly they're out. That is the only way to fix the broken system. Where are the intelligent Australians who have solutions other than more of the same?
    Trees
    10th May 2017
    12:06am
    If you are going to refer to a comment then reply in the right feed eggles01
    maelcolium
    9th May 2017
    11:36am
    This Senator is straight out of the loon pond. He holds his Senate seat with a handful of marginal votes as a consequence of the system which sees people elected as Senators and he certainly doesn't speak for a majority of voters. Similar to the gun debate this rat bag demonstrates the low intellect of some occupying the benches of Parliament on all sides of politics.
    We should ignore this parasite who is just a dog whistler for the far right and about to be joined by the likes of Latham, who is being turfed out of the ALP. Why this and other sites give oxygen to the twisted views of these people is beyond my pay grade and we should just ignore the ranting of these imbeciles.
    Come on Life Choices editors, there are more appropriate articles of real interest that people come onto this site to read. Don't behave like the Murdoch mainstream journalists. Just ignore this trash and let those people that want to read this stuff read it elsewhere.
    Paulodapotter
    9th May 2017
    11:52am
    Well said!
    Trees
    9th May 2017
    12:19pm
    100% spot on
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:21pm
    You make an assumption and I suggest this man has more support than you give him credit for.
    I certainly believe that anything which makes the system rort proof is good. At present our taxation and welfare systems have more holes in them than a Swiss cheese. Sadly the rorters do not want the gravy train to end.
    Swinging voter
    9th May 2017
    3:35pm
    Maelcolium - another person who thinks that someone with an opinion dissimilar to his/her own should be ignored. Even going as far as to suggest that this website should disallow (censor) references to persons who have "twisted views", and are not supportive of his/her political persuasion. Sorry dear, those days are over. Mainstream media which once reported news but somehow morphed into politically biased opinion-spreading, well it no longer rules. With the internet and alternative informative sites, readerships such as the people who come here have been liberated - and there's no going back. The genie of biased news-making, opinion pushing and no accountability will never be put back in the bottle.
    niemakawa
    9th May 2017
    4:44pm
    @Swinging voter. MSM is dead in the water, most news from this mediom is really "fake" news biased towards the left and Globalists.
    dweezy2176
    9th May 2017
    11:38am
    Caught me at last!
    I'm one of these "non citoyens" living high on the public purse since retirement .. been here 50 years, still a "10 pond tourist", worked, raised a family of, Oz born kids, returned serviceman as well but shock, horror not an Aussie ... why do I not feel guilty? Because it was never an issue until the last few years and now I don't care .. kids prefer me being English as it makes getting into the "old dart" very easy for them LOL!
    Paulodapotter
    9th May 2017
    11:54am
    You should be relieved not to be an Aussie, the way our pollies are behaving. I've been ashamed ever since Howard threw refugees overboard and committed us to an illegal and catastrophic war.
    mogo51
    9th May 2017
    1:53pm
    Your scenario is exactly what i referred to in previous post. You hhave well and truly done your 'heavy lifting' for Oz and deserve all or any benefits you receive.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:22pm
    No arguments if you have done 50 years in the country. So why would you not want to become a citizen? A bet each way? Go back to the homeland? There is more to this story than is being told on this blog so please fess up.
    Swinging voter
    9th May 2017
    3:39pm
    Gee Paulodapotter, publicly naming Howard as a person who threw refugees overboard? A dangerous personal allegation and possibly open to legal challenge.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    5:19pm
    A bit unfair associating Howard with 'children overboard'. What is fair is to accuse Howard of selling out our national energy interests. Had it not been for him and his government I would still have shares in the Gorgon LNG deposit and have better retirement that I now have, not that I have a bad one.
    Howard allowed all of our wonderful LNG deposits to be flogged off offshore. Now the bastards do not even pay for the product and are about to get tax cuts...which also will go straight offshore. The 'Lucky Country'? For whom?
    heyyybob
    9th May 2017
    11:42am
    Can't help but think, that if this problem of 15 BILLION DOLLARS is so cut and dried just why the Hell we elect politicians that are incapable of directing the CAREER civil servants, who are charged with implementing policies that should avoid this 'waste' of Australias money ?? We, the voters, just don't seem to be able to convince political parties with our voting power that so many of us are sick to death of disasters like this taking place in our country. Maybe, just maybe, its because so many of us blindly vote in, every election, one of the two major political movements that have existed for so long and NEITHER just seem unable to GET IT RIGHT :( The Average Aussie (the major voting block) really isn't political enough in their thinking and action which just seems to be blindly sticking a piece of paper in a box every couple of years without REALLY being involved in the politics of our country except to bitch about it when it doesn't work to the country's benefit :(
    Paulodapotter
    9th May 2017
    11:55am
    That's because it's not cut and dried, fella.
    heyyybob
    9th May 2017
    1:34pm
    Well, who are we leaving it to - to slice and serve, matey and why dont we really get off our asses and really do something about except just whinge on a few sites like this, buddy ?? ;) See you at the next party meeting ??
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:28pm
    You might be missing the obvious bob.
    Do you really think election results just happen? Ever noticed how media coverage is one sided the months before an election? No? Then next one get a pen and paper and note the difference between the (main) candidates: favourable coverage vs unfavourable, who gets a slap on the back and who is given question marks or worse, time devoted to each candidate and last of all editorial coverage by the media outlet itself. I did this when Abbott was elected and then Turnbull. Horrifying results. Forget about any semblance of 'fair'. Propaganda is what it was.
    Yeah, no good having a bitch. Average people need to understand the above, be on the lookout for it and realise they are being done over and behaving like (programmed) sheep when thye vote. Talk about democracy......
    heyyybob
    9th May 2017
    2:39pm
    Oh, I know MIck, I know :( "I'm outraged, disgusted, furious, I'm running out of words to express how upset I am" !! :D I'm also leaving this site (finally) and before Paulodapotter tells me I 'don't exist'. On the way out I shall be berating myself most fiercely for wandering back here again ;) Must save my strength to plan my next holiday which is coming up soon - MUST enjoy them and myself whilst I can and keep on avoiding the Fickle Finger of Fate :D Enjoy your next trip too, cheers.
    heyyybob
    9th May 2017
    2:47pm
    p.s. b4 I go Mick. My Grandfather is rolling over in his grave I'm sure :( He participated in the Great Shearers Strike in the 1890s as a young man and was one of the original members of our first Workers Union and campaigned hard and long all his working life for improvement of working conditions for Aussie workers.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    5:23pm
    ???? Time to get the pacemaker checked bob.
    Are you or are you not a citizen? If yes welcome. If not then go back to where you are a citizen. Same for all Australians. I am a citizen.
    FYI I do make the most out of our annual trips. After 40+ years of servitude I think I deserve my break. It seems you do not agree though. Sorry to offend you.
    heyyybob
    9th May 2017
    5:41pm
    Hope you are not getting too Twitter & Bisted Mick !! Read my posts carefully and dont put your foot in your mouth :( Of course I'm a citizen (born a long time ago and bred in OZ, as my previous 4 generations). I was serious about hoping you enjoying your next trip as over time I notice mentions, by you, of your travels and bloody good luck with that. I too enjoy it. So, take a chill pill or two and read carefully before leaping as I think you have enough frustrated keyboard warriors on this site offside without including me :) But, as I said, 'goodbye and good luck all, in changing your world' ;)
    Trees
    10th May 2017
    12:21am
    heyyybob & MICK you must have been around when all of this was happening many years ago, now you are moaning & carrying on like pork chops about how terrible it all is. You can take some responsibility for how its turned out because you did naff all to change things. What a couple of bitter & twisted old men you are. This country was built on immigration it need immigration but I won't bother going into that for you because you will not understand the concept
    MICK
    10th May 2017
    10:36am
    This country was built on migration from people who were INVITED, who were NEEDED and who had a work ethic. The current crop have mostly pushed their way in and for the greater part want to be kept. There is a very big difference!
    As for being twisted Trees go look in the mirror. You clearly have vested interests rather than the well being of the country at heart.
    heyyybob
    10th May 2017
    2:26pm
    Jeez ! WHY did I come back to have a quick squizz :( TREES. You abusive wanker !! You have NO idea how much I did for my WHOLE working life in this country, so you have NO qualification to tell me I did 'naff all' to change things. I wouldn't waste my energy telling you just what I DID do to change things (for the better) but I rest now with the satisfication that I did, in a small way, make a difference and I do take responsibility for that :) Taking a leaf out of your book I will take a guess that you won't come any where near achieving what I did for THIS country because if you have, so far, then you wouldn't be making some of your statements and assumptions that you do.
    inextratime
    9th May 2017
    12:09pm
    Mick. People coming here do not refuse to take out citizenship. There is no obligation for them to do so. Lets keep it accurate.
    Rosret
    9th May 2017
    12:23pm
    True. It's like an insurance policy. i.e. If I don't like it I can go back.
    - and of course, why bother.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:29pm
    They should be inextratime. If not then why not? Try that one in the US and see where it gets you. Why us?
    niemakawa
    9th May 2017
    4:33pm
    They can't vote in our elections if they do not have Australian Citizenship (AC). There are some exceptions but relate to people who arrived before 1984 ( I think) but have not taken up AC, they ar eligible to vote. There is no real excuse not to take up AC after the qualifying period. If they can't pass the test then they should be sent packing.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    5:25pm
    More than the (basic) test niemakawa. They either want to be a part of the nation (=citizens) or they don't. No grey areas. Black and white. Let them make a choice.
    Trees
    10th May 2017
    3:00am
    niemakawa you are referring to Kiwis with your reference to 1984 I gather? correct me if I am wrong. Kiwi's lost the right to vote after a law change in 1984 only Australian Citizens have the privilege of voting in state/federal elections.
    niemakawa
    10th May 2017
    3:26am
    @Trees. FYI. http://www.aec.gov.au/Enrolling_to_vote/British_subjects.htm
    niemakawa
    10th May 2017
    3:27am
    @ Trees. The good old British, the founding fathers of this Nation.
    Trees
    10th May 2017
    8:53am
    I see you are only referring to the british who arrived before 1984 now I understand now you have clarified yourself.
    Trees
    9th May 2017
    12:13pm
    Oh please people this article is so misleading. Please do not include New Zealanders on SCV or RRV in this article - Kiwis are not entitled to welfare payments period - family assistance, medicare yes but not unemployment, sickness, disability welfare payments.
    So get your facts straight Leyonhjelm before putting your name to an article like this, you muppet.
    Mick you are right kiwi's get very upset about this sort of crap, since 2001 this has been no clear pathway to citizenship, but Mick you would know that right?
    I object to a blanket statement that kiwis are ripping off the welfare system, not true, can't access welfare even though we work hard & pay full taxes which benefits the country. If kiwi's are living here on visa's they are working & paying tax & not receiving hand outs. Do some research if you don't believe me, plenty of information on the Immigration site to verify the above.
    Refugees on the other hand have no stand down period they are entitled to everything available to them, fair or not fair?
    Just get the facts before you feed this sort of rubbish to the public who believe what they read in the media - bloody misleading
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:34pm
    I believe the rules for kiwis are recently changed. What you are picking up is the dissatisfaction with governments who live in their ivory palaces, waste the nation's money, engage in class warfare and fail to ensure there is a system in place where Australians come first. What we see is money thrown at newcomers, many who are uninvited, and Australians born here suffering because there is no money. That breeds animosity and those on this website who are upset need to understand why many feel like this.
    I continue to say about immigrants: come if you are invited otherwise stay where you belong and CONTRIBUTE to our country. For those who laugh at that you should go back to your real homeland rather than exploiting somebody else's.
    Trees
    9th May 2017
    5:29pm
    Mick you missed the whole point didn't you - the only non-citizens that get full benefits are refugees from the day they arrive.
    Rules for kiwis changed 16 years ago & there are more proposed changes in the wind.
    Where did you read into my comment that I am "picking up on the dissatisfaction of governments"???
    Get it through your head that I am commenting on the pathetic article which was badly researched & is spreading wrong information.
    Kiwi's CONTRIBUTE we can't live here if we don't work WE DON'T GET BENEFITS - understand yet Mick??? - no exploitation from Kiwi non-citizens.
    Go & do some research before you shoot off your mouth, read what I said not what you think I said. Understand my point then reply....
    Paulodapotter
    9th May 2017
    5:38pm
    Good on yer, Trees.
    Misty
    9th May 2017
    6:50pm
    Trees my husband lived here for 59 years as a Permanent Resident, he just never got around to becoming a citizen, he came to work on the Snowy Scheme and worked until he was 70 and became eligible for a part pension so it is incorrect to say that it is only refugees that get full benefits, he was entitled to Medicare as well as Motor Rego for free.
    Trees
    10th May 2017
    12:37am
    Hi Misty, I am pretty much on the button, pensions are paid if you have lived in oz for 10 years, some countries have receiprical agreements with Australia as well. Medicare is everyones entitlement paid for through our taxes. Motor vehicle registration is nothing to with citizenship either, pensioner concession card will suffice among other critera. By full benefits I was referring to unemployment, sickness & disability, only citizens of oz are entitled to those benefits & refugees the day they arrive on Australia soil.

    Misty, your husband was one of the original hardworking immigrants, much respect for those that helped build this country
    Trees
    10th May 2017
    12:37am
    Hi Misty, I am pretty much on the button, pensions are paid if you have lived in oz for 10 years, some countries have receiprical agreements with Australia as well. Medicare is everyones entitlement paid for through our taxes. Motor vehicle registration is nothing to with citizenship either, pensioner concession card will suffice among other critera. By full benefits I was referring to unemployment, sickness & disability, only citizens of oz are entitled to those benefits & refugees the day they arrive on Australia soil.

    Misty, your husband was one of the original hardworking immigrants, much respect for those that helped build this country
    MICK
    10th May 2017
    10:42am
    Trees: "some countries have reciprocal arrangements". NZ does not from what I have been told but leave you to acknowledge or otherwise. I note your attempts to impose something on Australians which many do not think is fair.
    For the record I would never oppose anybody getting the same benefits as citizens if they have worked in this country for their whole lives but I expect people to make a choice of which country they want to be a citizen of rather than play the field so that they have choices if things do not go well. Get it straight rather than attack me for being loyal to this country. If you read my posts over several years you would understand that I stand for fairness and common sense in government rather than the demands of minority groups and the betrayal of working Australians by their governments. So what do you stand for other than gimmee what I want?
    OldCuban
    9th May 2017
    12:27pm
    No problem with non-citizens receiving welfare, however, not for perpetuity - it should be limited to 12 months to help folks get on their feet. This also goes to citizens unless unable to work due to disability or due to a major impact on the economy (GFC for example). My opinion. Tthanks for the article.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:35pm
    I'll back that....but few others will. It is fair and that is all we owe newcomers.
    Paulodapotter
    9th May 2017
    5:40pm
    The ol' black and white merchants are at it again.
    pedro the swift
    9th May 2017
    1:01pm
    My family came out here in 1949 and got no welfare from the then current gov. As a matter of fact when my mother got a job she had to pay back cost of accommodation.
    We became citizens in 1959 as you had be here at least five years before becoming eligible.No giving citizenship to sportspeople so you could claim Australian Gold medals at sports.
    We have become far too lax in letting in people who will never want to become citizens and want to change this country into the same hole they came from. I don't believe in Dual Citizenship. If you emigrate to another country permanently then you should be a citizen of that country.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:35pm
    Thank you to the voice of history and perspective pedro.
    Swinging voter
    9th May 2017
    3:01pm
    Thank you pedro. When immigration was both welcomed and helpful for the development of Australia, cultural similarities with our newcomers made it a worthwhile and happy project. But we are now paying welfare to many people who have no hope or desire to achieve what our earlier immigrants did, and in very short time. Post WWII immigrants were given nothing - no free housing, no free English language schooling, no free medical services (the list of costly benefits is mind boggling), no psychological counselling (and we all know how much that costs taxpayers). No wonder we are fed up. I walked through a Sydney park and there sunning themselves and their multiple kids were groups of immigrants obviously with plenty of time on their hands, having a lovely day out. Meanwhile their benefactor taxpayers most likely at work in jobs they probably don't like all that much, funding someone else's time in the sun.
    niemakawa
    9th May 2017
    3:59pm
    @Swinging voter. Ship ' em out. These layabouts are of no use here in Australia. Your experience walking through Sydney Park is reverberated all across Australia. It is a disgrace and the sooner these people are given their marching orders, the better.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    5:27pm
    Not 2 weeks ago I was sitting in a park In Chambery, France watching men working in the gardens. Beautiful place. Well maintained.
    People who are 'unemployed' need a job. Why not in our country just because this sort of work is beneath them.
    Paulodapotter
    9th May 2017
    5:42pm
    I think we should do away with passports and visas totally. We're citizens of the world, but we behave like rabid dogs.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    5:57pm
    A description of those who do not agree with you I suggest. Let's look at the facts rather than play the victim card. There is too much of that in our politically correct country already.
    KSS
    9th May 2017
    1:27pm
    There must be a benefit of being a citizen of a country that is not afforded to non citizens; access to public education or publicly funded health care for example. Access to welfare such as unemployment benefit or pensions if any kind should not be available to non citizens.
    457 visas are meant for skilled workers that are unavailable in Australia. Why are they getting welfare of any kind?
    People such as permanent residents should not be entitled to any welfare but could have access to public education or publicly funded health care by paying higher fees for access but lower fees than those same things in the private sector.
    Special arrangements could be made for genuine refugees but time limited say three to five years. Everyone else such as family reunions resulting in the age pension for example should be wholly supported by the family members bringing them here and that includes no carers pensions either. Self fund or don't come.
    Make a commitment to Australia or stop taking handouts. One or the other. You decide.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:40pm
    A thoughtful and sensible comment KSS. Totally agree.

    For the record 457 visas became a means to short circuit paying Australian workers. No government ever stopped that until the current one was forced to. Even then there are still loopholes left and I am willing to bet the rorting will not stop. Can't stop business people from making money can we. Not sure if a Labor government will fix that but more likely than the current lot whose only focus is on increasing the wealth of the already wealthy.
    niemakawa
    9th May 2017
    4:01pm
    @Mick as the saying goes one door closes another one opens. The big hurdle is the lack of political will by the mainstream parties to end it.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    6:00pm
    Both sides of politics care more about not having negative campaigning against them from people and businesses with money to spend. We should all remember what BHP did to the Labor government when it brought in the Mineral Resources Rent Tax. Apparently BHP was doing poorly but still found quite a few $million to run a prime time TV campaign which forced Rudd to withdraw the tax. Now the big end knows how to nobble governments. I call that gutless government.
    jackie
    9th May 2017
    1:32pm
    I remember years back my mother had to get naturalised so that she could claim a pension. When did the rules change? Give jobs to our Aussies stuck on the dole instead of providing it to 457 workers.
    Trees
    9th May 2017
    5:37pm
    Jackie, 457 visa's were changed from 18th April 2017 & will be scrapped entirely from 2018. Will be interesting to see if the unemployed on the 'dole' actually want to take the jobs of the people of 457 visa's don't you think??
    niemakawa
    9th May 2017
    9:01pm
    @Trees, they must not be allowed a choice. Take any available job offered or lose your 'dole' payment. No ifs or buts. Do-gooders butt-out
    Trees
    10th May 2017
    12:47am
    well be realistic you know that is never going to happen.Australia has a culture of dole bludgers started years ago & will take just as many years to change it. There is to be random drug testing for beneficaries as stated in the budget tonight, that'is a start but it won't fix the problem in the near future.
    Ted Wards
    9th May 2017
    1:45pm
    So why do we never discuss the fact that religious institutions and religious bodies never pay tax and never have. How much income are we missing as a nation due to this issue alone? I'd say the numbers would be staggering and yet, no one ever talks about it, nor is it ever mentioned. However, what is always dragged out is refugees, the vulnerable and those who generally don't have a strong voice. Let's not be fooled, the real issue is where we should be getting tax from and where we don't such as big business and religion. Bet ya media wont touch that with a barge poll and why? Why are we so scared to ask for what belongs to this nation? Stop picking on the vulnerable and making it their fault. Its not.
    Old Geezer
    9th May 2017
    1:58pm
    I know people who have their own churches so that they can take advantage of tax free income. Time churches and religious institutions were taxed the same as companies.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:43pm
    I fully support the end to churches making fortunes and paying no tax. It should have ended years ago. After the recent finding of child molestation by priests I would suggest governments make these organisations pay tax....but then catholic churches would get offshore tax shelters like the rich are covering themselves with and the result might be the same.
    niemakawa
    9th May 2017
    4:04pm
    @Mick exactly. The churches the biggest rorters of all.
    PeteE
    9th May 2017
    1:57pm
    So my wife from Singapore who's a Permanent Resident but not a citizen, shouldn't be eligible for an aged pension? Some countries, US & Singapore don't allow dual citizenship. So you're saying she must become a citizen and risk access to her family etc? Don't think so! Look behind the shallow numbers based stories. There are real people and real lives!
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:45pm
    And real reasons for avoiding becoming an Australian. That is a fundamental choice we all make. If it is abhorrent then you go back to the country you are a citizen of. Not too hard to work out.
    Pamiea
    9th May 2017
    2:23pm
    Is it so hard for the Government to make foreign national companies pay their fair share of tax? We have heard about this for years and nothing seems to get done. Does someone/s in Government need to get some balls??
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:46pm
    This government is in bed with both multinationals and wealthy citizens. Amazing what an donation to a political party does for you. We might need to revise the meaning of the word 'fraudulent'.
    Pamiea
    9th May 2017
    2:25pm
    Is it so hard for the Government to make foreign national companies pay their fair share of tax? We have heard about this for years and nothing seems to get done. Does someone/s in Government need to get some balls??
    Pamiea
    9th May 2017
    2:29pm
    As for the free loaders who are capable of working put a rocket up them and the Government dept who dishes out the money ie get tough instead of pussy footing around.
    niemakawa
    9th May 2017
    4:25pm
    Human rights, human rights , dear man/woman!! Just not on. The whole HR nonsense needs to be stopped.
    Trees
    9th May 2017
    6:11pm
    Unemployment benefits were introduced in 1945 & doubled in 1952 you have all had plenty of time to protest & make some changes since then.
    Human rights were considered back in 1945 as well, Robert Menzies said: People should be able to obtain these benefits as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years.
    Maybe through the apathy of the generation now hitting retirement it was just let to go to the extremes that it is at today. Should of kicked & screamed about it years ago, no good whinging now way to entrenched in the Australian culture now.
    niemakawa
    9th May 2017
    7:08pm
    @Trees I agree apathy and complacency are rife in Australia today. I saw the light many years ago and vote for parties that believe in Australia and its people. I ignore all the PC nonsense that is thrown at us left right and centre. The future generations will have to contend with mass immigration, low paid jobs, loss of FoS ,social/community housing for all( Private ownership will not be allowed). Of course that is the scenario that awaits them, if they do nothing now. As they say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. The Globalists Governments, of which Australia is one, are already in the process of making a One World Government. Thank God I wont be around to see it. The best I can do is explain to the generations behind me of the dire consequences they face if they sit back and do nothing.
    Trees
    10th May 2017
    1:04am
    nienakawa never mind about what future generations have to contend with - the apathy & complacency started way back in your younger days, it didn't happen in the last 5 years you know? Previous generation got us to this point.
    Immigration will happen because the world is a small place now, it is happening now,low paid jobs - why? freedom of speech has never been more rife, social/community housing, no private ownership - what are you on about? give me some solid facts not what you think the future holds.
    The best you can do is tell generations behind you of the dire consequences if they sit back? - for goodness sakes did you not sit back & let this happen? oh yes thats right you vote strategically so you have done your bit for the country, what was I thinking?
    niemakawa
    10th May 2017
    1:40am
    I have powers. I know.
    Trees
    10th May 2017
    1:54am
    What powers? did you use your powers for anything special today?
    waiting for you to back up your statement with some facts, ready when you are niemakawa
    niemakawa
    10th May 2017
    2:05am
    @Trees . you are not very receptive to what I have to say and you show a lack of understanding of what is really happening in the world.. I will just say this I have researched intensively about the political situation that is engulfing us, not only in Australia but through out the world. Drastic changes are coming, ignore it at your own peril. I will certainly not lie down and will continue to fight, with others, the oppression of the people that is taking hold.
    Trees
    10th May 2017
    3:24am
    I just cant be receptive to your unsubstanuated statements.
    You appear to have no concern for what is happening in the world to innocent people & you don't appear to want any immigrants allowed into the country? how was this country built? from hard working immigrants & don't come back saying that is no longer the case. The article written by Leyonhjelm is floored. Do not put kiwis on the list of non-citizens receiving benefits -FACT - this doesn't happen, not entitled, no benefits, nada which is fair enough. So the Leyonhjelm article is discredited immediately/
    So I am waiting for your facts to back up your statements. What drastic changes are coming? What oppression? you have never had such a voice since social media came into play, but writing your opinions on these sorts of forums isn't going to effect change either. Seriously interested in what you have to say backed up by facts :)
    Ted Wards
    10th May 2017
    11:21am
    @niemawaka tax payers are humans too. What about our rights to ensure that our hard earned tax dollars are spent properly. Little thought is ever given to the sacrifices we make so people on welfare and so on can come to this country and enjoy our benefits we have earned. Interestingly enough, the middle income earners get diddly squat in terms of assistance and relief. I have no family so I get nothing, Im on a waiting list for a colonoscopy Im supposed to have every 12 months but haven't had for nearly two years'. I can't afford private health insurance, yet my funds helps pay for the health system I cant access! So I say again, where are my rights as a human and a tax payer?
    Ted Wards
    10th May 2017
    11:21am
    @niemawaka tax payers are humans too. What about our rights to ensure that our hard earned tax dollars are spent properly. Little thought is ever given to the sacrifices we make so people on welfare and so on can come to this country and enjoy our benefits we have earned. Interestingly enough, the middle income earners get diddly squat in terms of assistance and relief. I have no family so I get nothing, Im on a waiting list for a colonoscopy Im supposed to have every 12 months but haven't had for nearly two years'. I can't afford private health insurance, yet my funds helps pay for the health system I cant access! So I say again, where are my rights as a human and a tax payer?
    Old Geezer
    9th May 2017
    2:33pm
    The Australian Tax Office actually commented on this one
    The importance of accuracy in your tax return



    The ATO has returned the Tax Return to a man in Townsville after he apparently answered one of the questions.

    In response to the question, "Do you have anyone dependent on you?"

    The man wrote: "2.1 million illegal immigrants, 1.1 million crackheads, 4.4 million unemployable scroungers, 80,000 criminals in over 85 prisons plus 450 idiots in Parliament, thousands of 'retired politicians' and an entire group that call themselves 'Senators'

    The ATO stated that the response he gave was "unacceptable".


    The man's response back to ATO was, "Who did I leave out?"
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:47pm
    Priceless. Who do I send my donation to?
    heyyybob
    9th May 2017
    3:00pm
    ROFLMAO !!
    Ted Wards
    10th May 2017
    11:15am
    An oldie but a goodie and so relevant.
    dougie
    9th May 2017
    2:47pm
    Surely those people who come here as refugees and who are accepted as such by our Government are entitled to Social Security as basically, as a nation, we invited them to live here.
    Those who came in unannounced by sneaking in the back door should not be eligible for any Social Security payments as they are illegal entrants.
    Those who came from Countries with which we have a Social Security Agreement should be entitled to Social Security whilst they live here but should they return to their home country this should cease. This particularly so where they hold dual citizenship.
    I do not know what the criteria is today but should people return to their homeland they should cease to be paid the Social Security benefits after 30 days. On return they could apply again for assessment for benefits and see where this leads. This should also apply to those who receive a Carers Payment.
    Hey isn't all of the above fair and decent as well as being appropriate to each circumstance. This would nullify the situation whereby people have a family home or just family support and return home apply for whatever benefits are available and get dual payments. If a person has a dual passport then this should be an immediate cancellation of benefits unless the return is for the maximum period of 30 days.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    2:49pm
    I think you are mistaking feeling sorry with citizenship. Just because you give somebody a leg up doesn't mean you owe them. That is sort of perverse logic. Sorry.
    dougie
    9th May 2017
    4:42pm
    Mick,
    You are right to a point but if we invite ie. accept that a person is a genuine refugee who applies for and is granted refuge in our country then I believe we as a nation are responsible for the care and well being that is required by that person.

    However believe me, if that person does not respect our laws and our way of life and commits a crime against these laws and beliefs then they should be deported to whence they came without the benefit of taxpayer funded appeals etc.

    The same should apply to genuine migrants and as for those who sneak in the back door then they should be deported forthwith and without benefit of appeals etc.
    Trees
    9th May 2017
    5:40pm
    Interested to know who are the migrants that sneak in the back door?
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    7:31pm
    Respectfully dougie I don't see how any person who arrives on our shores has any rights. Whilst Australians are very generous this leaves them open to manipulation and that is what has been happening the last few years. We have no right to say no and apparently it is up to us to support a whole raft of problems in the world from Aid to refugees.
    I do not believe we are responsible for refugees. The do gooders should be picking up that tab, but that is another story.
    niemakawa
    9th May 2017
    7:49pm
    @Trees, make sure you lock your back door. If they enter without your consent they will take over and there will not be a thing you can do about it. Only the new wave of "migrants" have rights, you do not.
    Trees
    10th May 2017
    1:15am
    niemakawa - ok so you saying the badies are coming in the back door?? I am now assuming you mean queue jumpers, boat people? Yes nobody is over the moon about the boat people, too many uncertaincies about their background - check - get that. But don't tar all of the refugees with the same brush. Many are genuine refugees from war torn countries & they deserve a second chance. It is the humane thing to do just as after WWII the offer of resettlement was given to displaced men, women & children from throughout Europe. You are Australian you have rights, don't be over dramatic
    MICK
    10th May 2017
    10:49am
    You appear to be the next do gooder Trees, happy to soil the country further with your laments about the unfortunate people on the planet who need to be taken care of. A bottomless pit which will never be satisfied.
    The problem with boat people has nothing to do with post WW2 migration. This lot are uninvited, do not want to work in may cases because they do quite nicely on the dole with all the other handouts and are not needed to fill jobs which do not exist. In case you have been asleep at the wheel again there is 1 job for every 10 applicants. Most of us would recognise that this is one reason we should have a nil immigration policy. We need more people with double digit common sense and less of the bleeding hearts prepared to send the good ship Australia down for the count.
    tj
    9th May 2017
    3:15pm
    If they can't get access to welfare where are they going to get money? Think about it
    niemakawa
    9th May 2017
    4:26pm
    The people smugglers!!
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    7:31pm
    Perhaps their country of origin where they also had social security????
    niemakawa
    9th May 2017
    3:17pm
    Stop calling those from the ME and Africa refugees. Only a very small number can be classified as such. The rest, I would say 95 %, are economic migrants , with few skills and they do not ( or want)have a similar culture to our own. They are a burden on Australia and will be for many many many years. These people should be repatriated to their country of origin where they can help build their own countries future. Australia cannot afford to keep providing foreign aid to countries whose people have chosen to leave of their own free will. As the age pension is means tested here it cannot be compared to other nations where an age pension is based on working life and social security contributions.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    3:32pm
    Ditto.
    almost midnight
    9th May 2017
    3:26pm
    yes, migration has always been important in Australia, but surely 10 years ( as an example) is time enough a) to get off the welfare system b) become an Australian citizen. love Sweden..the longer you have worked and paid taxes, the better the pension you get! -
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    3:33pm
    Like that one. Some of our own might go hungry though.

    9th May 2017
    3:37pm
    Sorry, I can't see a problem. If all of those 870,000 recipients became naturalised, they would still retain the right to claim citizenship from their country of birth and therefore travel overseas on that nation's passport. Unless Australia demands that those who become Australian citizens also give up citizenship of all other nations, the gesture is meaningless.

    I also note that MICK is contributing more comments and assuming that he has safely returned from his overseas holiday may I say welcome home.
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    7:34pm
    Thank you Old Man. You are correct...and I agree with you on this one. I also am able to take up dual citizenship but feel that I am an Aussie, albeit a belligerent one at times, and would like to see dual citizens make a choice.
    Trees
    10th May 2017
    1:59am
    Dual citizenship has another purpose MICK it not about being a fence sitter & going from one to the other, it is also a means to travel freely if you are from Europe for example. Does not mean they are not proud Australians at all.
    MICK
    10th May 2017
    10:51am
    Just come back from Europe. We were free to travel to any EU destination if we wanted to. No problems with that and we did not need dual citizenship.
    I say again people need to choose what country they are citizens of.
    OldCuban
    9th May 2017
    5:36pm
    In a quick response to PeteE - the US does allow dual citizenship - not sure about Singapore - thought I share that.
    Lescol
    9th May 2017
    5:51pm
    STATISTICS ARE A PAIN - why are we noting in this comment?

    I am at a lost to understand this matter.

    cheers
    Misty
    9th May 2017
    6:36pm
    My husband lived here for 59 years as a permanent resident, he never became naturalisd but stood for all things Australian, he was from Austraia.
    Jtee
    9th May 2017
    8:56pm
    For once, I agree with Old Geezer's comments. Most of the time he seems to be just "stirring" everybody up.
    Jtee
    9th May 2017
    8:56pm
    For once, I agree with Old Geezer's comments. Most of the time he seems to be just "stirring" everybody up.
    TREBOR
    9th May 2017
    9:27pm
    Yeee-usssh -but they are Permanent Residents...
    MICK
    9th May 2017
    10:50pm
    If somebody came into your home, TREBOR said you owed them and demanded you keep them what would you do?
    Damned if you care and help. Damned if you do otherwise.
    Trees
    10th May 2017
    1:31am
    MICK do you truly believe that the majority of people that immigrate to Australia do so for the welfare payments??
    Don't believe all you read in the report of Leyonhjelm's.
    You talked about how "they'" influence people during elections, what do you think "they" may be doing around budget time to deflect our attention, feeding false information to take your mind of the poultry sum they are giving pensions to help over winter with their power bill perhaps?
    MICK
    10th May 2017
    10:53am
    Of course many of them do. I recall in recent times the government wanted to redirect some of the boats to another country including NZ. Those aboard refused and demanded to come to Australia. It's pretty clear why and you are fooling yourself if you think they targeted Australia by mistake.
    niemakawa
    10th May 2017
    3:29am
    Um!!
    solmon52
    10th May 2017
    3:58am
    I agree with most. If you dont want to be a citizen then dont allow them to apply for welfare. Refugees should be treated as migrants and treated equally in the way migrants are. This would save us huge welfare. I have to pay to send my kids to uni yet they get hecs without any questions on immediate arrival.
    FEDUP
    10th May 2017
    5:49am
    Simple solution! Bear the cost for three years and if the person does not become an Australian Citizen, DEPORT THEM.
    Only three things should be asked to become an Australian Citizen:-
    1) Do you give up your former countries citizenship?
    2) Are you willing to live by Australian Law?
    3) Are you prepared to defend Australia?
    Answer NO to any of these questions and Citizenship is denied and deportation takes place.
    Then and only then will we receive "FAIR DINKUM" immigrants.
    Refugees should be assisted where possible, but allowing them to create "Ghetto's" in the middle of Capital cities, when there are Rural townships dying' because of exodus to the Cities of their young folk to find better jobs, cries out for decentralisation.
    Oh, to go back to the days of Curtain and Menzies, when life was easy and a full belly was because you had a job, endowment was paid instead of the baby bonus, and education was free. May your God bless Australia for its bounty.
    Trees
    10th May 2017
    9:00am
    Oh my god finally something that makes sense, thank you FEDUP.
    Not even discriminating against races, well done.

    Seriously this is the best comment on here
    MICK
    10th May 2017
    11:04am
    Not bad FEDUP. Maybe add 'will seek work and avoid social security'.
    Part of the issue with the ghettos you mention is that new arrivals are permitted to choose where they live. New arrivals should be housed in areas where there is a diverse culture, preferably established Australian where possible. Country towns which need people are a good choice as well as cities. We need to break up enclaves like Bankstown and Lakemba so that new arrival become a part of the fabric rather than set up an extension of the old country in ours.

    Trees: you sound like a genY halfwit. Your use of the 'discrimination' word reeks of minority groups who routinely use half a dozen key words which shut down discussion. The above is one of them. Sadly your post is a lot of crock as we 'discriminate' against our own as well. You need to show the intelligence to comprehend that Australians have expectations of people who come here, especially those who arrive uninvited. If you think it is ok to turn up in somebody else's country and then start making demands whilst putting down the incumbent population for speaking up then YOU are the problem and I suggest you may want to consider going back to where you came from as you are clearly not happy with being one of us. Whilst I may disagree with some posters on some issues (Geezer for example) I call them fellow citizens and welcome their point of view because they do likewise. You on the other hand try to shut down opinion and that is a worry. We do not need that in a democracy!
    Misty
    10th May 2017
    11:26am
    Just have to get the pollies on board now FEDUP.
    Gazza
    10th May 2017
    11:06am
    Interesting article! It will get people on their high horses to express an opinion and then have it shredded by others. Everyone has the right to express an opinion and be respected for it! As for my opinion for what it is worth, I believe that we are allowing people to live here who do not have the education to obtain work or educate themselves, have the social and cultural ability to assimilate into a modern Australian society and really don't want to try once they realise that they can be paid for doing nothing. Far different from where they came from.
    Misty
    10th May 2017
    11:58am
    Yes I think you may be right, maybe not all but some at least.
    Gee Whiz
    10th May 2017
    4:19pm
    $15 billion is a mountain of cash to be handing out to non Australian citizens .

    This country is staggering under the social security load. Average Australians who have paid taxes all their lives. including pensioners are expected to pay more taxes to support this inequity.

    Let the politicians be the first to take a cut in salary and perks to start the ball rolling to support non tax paying immigrants.
    john
    10th May 2017
    5:26pm
    I think we need to have people who come here become citizens after an approval time, be naturalised what ever they have to go through.
    And never ever have non Australians as welfare recipients, if that figure is real that 15 billion then no bulldust from politicians and immigrant help groups and apologists for refugees who continually call us who think differently racist, well sorry my country my people come a very very very large FIRST!
    Triss
    10th May 2017
    9:20pm
    How short memories are. Remember not very long ago David Leyonhjelm was spouting off about stopping pensions and adding the family home to the assets test. It's not clever, Leo, to disparage someone who's doing it tough when you get paid nearly $4,000 a week.

    12th May 2017
    12:24pm
    A lot of emigrants particular China con Australian men into marrying them just to get into Australia. Once here they stay married for a few years then separate take the man for a large portion of his property then go on welfare. I know of one Chinese girl Who came here through spouses visa after 2 years started being violent towards the man they had 2 beautiful children she apparently had a metal problem was admitted to the psyche hospital but because of there culture would not admit to this we got help for her from all sources but she refused the help. she became so violent the man got a divorce . It went to court and she was awarded halve of everything. so after only being here for 5 years and contributing nothing to this country and very little to the marriage she got legal aid and now on a centerlink payment and government housing. and the man has been left in very bad way financially . The law is an ass and very biased towards the female she even got half of his super. She is still very violent when he picks up the children and the psychological damage that is been done to the children will probable be irreparable. this person is present trying to get a court order to pick the children up and drop them of at their school to save any conflict with the female he could not get legal aid but I bet she dose and the law will probable side with her The family law has to be changed and hear both sides of the story instead of siding with the female most of the time. Child protection and the other community services was of no help once she refused there help they did not appear to be concerned for the children's welfare.
    Ronnie
    13th May 2017
    11:31am
    I do not think Age Pensions is for people who never worked and pay taxes in Australia.
    It should be assessed based on the number of year a person has worked and divide by 35 years working life to get a portion of Australian portions. This formula is used by UK, and other European countries. We do not want everyone to just rock up close to their retirement age to collect out pensions thoses parents who were sponsored by their children. They sure have a good life, the pensions pay for their holidays 5 or 6 times a time back to Taiwan, China, Phillippines, South Korea, Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam, Cambodia etc...etc.. I have worked 46 years and tire with no handouts from the gov't.
    It cost too much money to feed everyone let alone the big nos. of refugees who sit around for handouts and continuosly producing babies. Just no money left so can the Smart politicians do something?
    Ronnie
    13th May 2017
    11:40am
    I totally agree with you FairDinkum, these older Australians are just not intellectually smart enough to be conned by the China women. It is very common to see the younger ones with the older men holding hands walking about the shopping centres. Very sad to feel that these men have to live their family and get caught in the web of having to support these women. Most of them has children back in their home country. So the men has to support the whole package by bringing them here. What next??? The tax payers has to support their lifelihood, schools, living expenses, housing etc...all from the Welfare system. What will the old men get??? A few years of tolerance and love life from the women. Once they get their Permanent residency status... they just leave the old men to dry.. Stupid stupid stupid... it goes on and on and on. I have seen and know of too many cases like this... Men be wise for your own good and smarten up too. don't be Fooled so easily ok????
    Liverpool Anne
    16th May 2017
    12:55am
    I came to this country from Britain, in 1949 as an 8 year old. I won a public service scholarship to learn shorthand and typing, and had to work for the service for 3 years. Back then you HAD to be an Australian Citizen to work in the Public Service, and speak English, so I became one. Worked all my life until I retired. Back then Police had to be 5'10" tall as well. How times have changed, police are smaller than myself, anyone can work in Government Department, and they can be married too. No married girls back then in the 1950/60's back then unless it was on the Snowy Mountains Hydro Scheme. Definitely times have changed
    Misty
    16th May 2017
    1:35am
    I was married then as were my friends, our husbands were European, we all worked at our local hospital nursing sisters, a couple worked on the Snowy too, I never heard of married women not being allowed to work here in Australia although I know Ireland did not allow it.
    Liverpool Anne
    16th May 2017
    10:03am
    Once married, women were not allowed to work in the Public Service, only the Public Service. They could work anywhere else. The Hydro scheme was the only place married women could work, they even were allowed in some cases, to have their baby with them, they needed secretaries etc. The married rule change some time later, not sure when, as it did not effect me. Mind you, back then it didn't require both to work
    Ginaus
    9th Feb 2018
    12:26am
    Dante, and you other idiots; very few current migrants, refugees will ever be useful no matter how long the 'wait'.... the countries they come from- bagger and lectures them on how they should take care of their citizens; of course these are the Asians, Africans, muslims etc etc.. WE had to get up, and make the changes... they did not hand it to us...