North Korea declares war

North Korea has declared war on its democratic neighbour South Korea

North Korea declares war

Over the weekend North Korea's young leader Kim Jong-un has declared that North Korea is entering "a state of war" with its democratic neighbour South Korea. South Korea’s President Park Geun-hye has vowed that South Korea will offer a "strong response" to provocation from the north. North Korea also threatened America with rockets earlier this year.

Australia is urging China to stop sending technology and equipment across the border into North Korea, in order to stifle the dictatorship's nuclear weapons program. There is a current UN-backed sanction aimed at forcing North Korea to abandon its goal of becoming a nuclear power. Our Foreign Minister Bob Carr will be trying to persuade his Chinese counterpart to tighten the enforcement of this sanction.

If Kim Jong-un decides that the time has come to invade South Korea, it is likely his actions would prompt America to respond, which in turn would draw China and, possibly, Australia into the conflict.

Read more at The Age website.

Opinion – A nation gone mad

Late last year the North Korean media claimed that proof had been found that Pyongyang, in the north, was the capital city of ancient Korea, as opposed to South Korea's Seoul. This 'proof' was the discovery of a cave which once housed a unicorn. That's right, a unicorn.

Official accounts of North Korea's recently deceased leader, Kim Jong-il, are equally absurd. It is claimed that his birth was accompanied with a double rainbow and that as a child he was a champion sportsperson. When he played his first ever round of golf he is supposed to have scored 11 holes-in-one. North Korea's football coach also claims that Kim Jong-il guided the team through the 2010 World Cup with the use of an invisible telephone, a device said to be invented by the leader himself.

Confronting America has become a matter of personal honour in North Korea. Just in case war ever does come to pass, the order has been given that a priority must be to protect the nation's 35,000 statues of the Kim family.

This is the same country which has control of nuclear weapons, has openly threatened America (a country not known for its peaceful responses) and declared war on South Korea, a democracy and a member of the United Nations.

I'm not usually one to worry about world politics, but North Korea’s actions are enough to leave me deeply concerned. I really feel that the world and, closer to home, Australia, may be on the brink of war. If we are counting on North Korea to make the sensible, rational decision then I think we might be kidding ourselves.

What do you think? Is all this fuss about North Korea not worth the time of day, or do you think the situation could really be jeopardising our country? And if it does come to war, do you think Australia should get involved?





    COMMENTS

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    Pass the Ductape
    2nd Apr 2013
    10:56am
    When you're dealing with the minds of loonies, (these loonies in control of a military force capable of inflicting a great deal of death and destruction) then it still behoves us all not to take our eyes off the ball.
    Are the loonies in North Korea jeopardising our country? Perhaps not so much our country but if North Korea does intend to proceed with its threat of war against South Korea and the USA, then of course our troops will be required to go and fight - if required. It's unthinkable that we wouldn't.
    In a modern world there is no place for a lunatic regime such as depicted by the North Korean government. Perhaps they should be presented with an opportunity to back up its rhetoric. The rest of the world could do this simply by standing back and laughing out loud at their ridiculous and stupid antics.
    If the North Korean loonies take the bait and react in the manner they say they intend to, then a massive military retaliation will afford the opportunity to wipe out the North Korean loonies once and for all. Then the world can relax again and ALL Koreans can get on with building a peaceful and decent life together.
    However, I get the feeling that the real sooks in all this are the Chinese. Nothing offered and nothing gained. What a bunch of useless sods they are!
    squizzy
    2nd Apr 2013
    11:28am
    Unfortunately the North Koreans have ( Lost Face ) since the ceasefire in the 1950's and have been anti American and everything else since then. China stills backs North Korea but if a conflict should occur, China would back away as they could become embroiled with America. Russia may well supply arms as well as China through a back door but at great risk to themselves. I cannot see this deminishing in the North as the head of State is only in his 20's and easily led by party officials higher up the communist chain of command. Some how, party officials must ( save face ) and that will only come about by winning a conflict no matter how small, or how big. I think a first strike will be made against the disputed islands especially Yeonpyeong as this is only12km from the North Korean border, but resides under the Souths control.
    Aloysius
    2nd Apr 2013
    11:34am
    The North Korean rhetoric is nothing new. They have been ranting for years. Unless they are suicidal it's probably just breast-beating as usual. We should stay out of it. We are a big enough target already because of our deputy sheriff role.
    Anonymous
    3rd Apr 2013
    5:48pm
    Aloysius

    Very well said. I agree.
    Precious
    7th Apr 2013
    1:44pm
    Calming words Aloysius......we need at the moment.....
    toot2000
    2nd Apr 2013
    11:35am
    Yes I'm worried, the CIA, Mosad, MI5 or similar should blow him away, the little turd needs a lesson in manners.
    aquatrek
    2nd Apr 2013
    12:20pm
    toot2000 - the language tut tut
    Bes
    2nd Apr 2013
    12:25pm
    The world usually condemns organisations such as CIA, MI5 AND MOSAD but apparently they do have a use?
    Smee
    2nd Apr 2013
    2:15pm
    toot2000!! really. Now you've insulted turds. Now that you mention it, my dog dropped something that looks just like the pic at the top of this blog :o)

    2nd Apr 2013
    11:39am
    At my age I don't care what happens here and I'm not impressed with the way the world is heading. There are too many people here now so a bloody good war might get rid of a few and wealth might get evenly devided.
    aquatrek
    2nd Apr 2013
    12:22pm
    thanks hugely for the useless input - wake up !! Marxism and Socialism is DEAD - corporatism is alive [but not well] as another on here has declared
    Anonymous
    3rd Apr 2013
    5:52pm
    again....squelch any different opinions with propagandised rhetoric and insults. Good one! We could have had a nice discussion with Davey, if you hadn't called him names.
    Precious
    7th Apr 2013
    1:47pm
    And values and what we are and have re instated.....at the moment all life seems to consist of is what Mrs next door has....then I`ll have to beat that...or you`re no good if you havent amassed crocks of gold.....
    Maggiegreen
    2nd Apr 2013
    11:46am
    I took a close look at North Korea's leader amonst his "cabinet". He doesn't seem very much in charge, rather at a loss. I surmise he is a puppet and others are pulling the strings. I don't think they have enough to keep them occupied over there and are casting around for something to keep them occupied, even war, Lord preserve us.
    sandyfaye
    4th Apr 2013
    4:38pm
    Well Maggie. You seem to have hit on some truths. 'Nutty Kim the Korean' does appear to be a puppet. Why can't they concentrate on bringing up their children in a peaceful manner. I just can't understand the mob mentality over there.
    annked
    2nd Apr 2013
    11:53am
    From what I have heard, North Korea regularly does a bit of loud sabre rattling, softens a bit and gets talks happening to get more aid. Why would the new young leader really want to give up his luxury life, his lovely wife and all the kudos by actually getting US to retaliate?
    JJ
    2nd Apr 2013
    11:59am
    Yes, he's a possibly a lunatic, but a potentially dangerous one. His upbringing has instilled in him a belief that North Korea in on the side of the angels (metaphorically speaking of course) and it's leaders have the right to do whatever they see fits their own imagined place in the world. I have watched with despair as the Korean conflict drags on decade after decade - why can't countries get along together? Especially two halves of the same country! Whoever started this nuclear arms race did the whole world an enormous disservice, as it seems that the nations which are armed can make demands while holding the threat of nuclear strikes over the heads of opposing governments.

    On the other hand - I heard an interview with a political expert on Korean matters, and according to him this threat from North Korea is a ploy whereby they hope to got financial aid and concessions from the UN/USA in exchange for peace negotiations. The expert claims that there is very little chance that threats of attack will eventuate. I hope he's right!
    Tom Tank
    2nd Apr 2013
    12:11pm
    Commonsense says that North Korea is just sabre rattling again but they do have a different outlook to the rest of the world. I was in South Korea last year ant it is a very impressive country with lovely people but the DMZ is a very scary place. The impression gained there is that the South does not take intimidation from the North is any shape or form, and they are backed up by the UN in the shape of the US.
    I suspect that things will settle down again as China has such a lot to lose from any armed conflict in the region and they will not support North Korea now.
    If things do get our of hand we will be drawn into it even if it is only as a supporter of the US, due to our former Deputy Sheriff role. If it comes to shooting and it goes nuclear we will all lose.
    Lets just look on the bright side however and expect that it will calm down and with the passage of time North Korea will come over from the "Dark Side"
    from the nanny state
    2nd Apr 2013
    12:22pm
    It is always a concern with irrational people involved in conflict
    Peepo
    2nd Apr 2013
    1:23pm
    I'm with you, you never know what will tip these brainwashed dictators over the edge.
    aquatrek
    2nd Apr 2013
    12:24pm
    If China and Russia were backing North Korea to the hilt then a war would seem inevitable - but that is not the case so I am not overly concerned - yet.
    Bes
    2nd Apr 2013
    12:50pm
    One could put it down to China taking stock of what retaliation would be faced.
    Their puppet Korea is cajoled/ordered to rattle their sabres for stock taking reasons.
    Then it would know what is required if needed?
    So far no one, only the Korea puppet, has made mention of nuclear.
    The Americans have only responded with warnings and a fly by of conventional means.
    One would imagine it would be sheer suicide for the instigator, if a rocket were to be fired at the US mainland.
    It is generally known who has what and where they are aimed.
    There are other instruments of war, on the secret lists, not yet known that are of a concern to all possible combatants.
    The hundreds of thousands of Korean soldiers, their marching antics, their parading of empty/useless rocket cases on trailers are nothing but a sad reflection of the long past cold war. Overlooked by a posse of very old men who have lost face big time in the past and so far have scored another loss.
    All of this and a nation which is starving!
    aquatrek
    2nd Apr 2013
    12:59pm
    http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/301932/news/world/china-s-anger-at-north-korea-overcomes-worry-over-us-stealth-flights
    toot2000
    2nd Apr 2013
    12:29pm
    What the hell is China doing, why aren't they telling him to pull his head in?
    aquatrek
    2nd Apr 2013
    12:35pm
    http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/301932/news/world/china-s-anger-at-north-korea-overcomes-worry-over-us-stealth-flights
    Precious
    7th Apr 2013
    1:50pm
    They might be behind the scenes no one would ever know.....secrets......
    Precious
    7th Apr 2013
    1:50pm
    They might be behind the scenes no one would ever know.....secrets......

    2nd Apr 2013
    12:45pm
    Talking about this is waste of time......try to change the systems here o give more to the pensioner
    aquatrek
    2nd Apr 2013
    12:49pm
    you want to hijack the discussion on North Korea and talk politics in Oz - now that's honest but rather rude dont you think ?
    Pass the Ductape
    2nd Apr 2013
    1:16pm
    Me thinks you might be taking the p--s Davey!
    aquatrek
    2nd Apr 2013
    1:23pm
    aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh Ductape - where have U been - I needed some to patch my clogs
    Davey is not taking the p--s because he messaged me privately and told me to f off !!
    maybe he had a bad easter just a'hangin around hehe
    Pass the Ductape
    2nd Apr 2013
    1:28pm
    I been here brudder - I been here. Just lookin'.
    LENYJAC
    2nd Apr 2013
    1:14pm
    REMINDS ME OF A CARTOON TITLED PINKY AND THE BRAIN ((WE'LL TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD)) WHO OR WHAT IS THIS UPSTART AND WHAT WORLD WOULD BE LEFT IF IT STARTED A NUCLEAR WAR???????
    Pass the Ductape
    2nd Apr 2013
    1:22pm
    He's nothing but a fat little dangerous freak who was born 6 chromosomes short of the full compliment, LENYJAC.
    Pass the Ductape
    2nd Apr 2013
    1:24pm
    I mean look at the picture: He's so fat he can't even lift his arm to salute properly!
    Abe
    2nd Apr 2013
    1:26pm
    If North Korea gets into a shooting match with the West, China would move a lot of people into NK and when the dust dies down NK will be part of China. End of story.
    Pass the Ductape
    2nd Apr 2013
    1:31pm
    Hey.....that might just work Abe! I didn't think of that, but it sounds like a plan.
    aquatrek
    2nd Apr 2013
    1:34pm
    didnt China try to do that eons ago ? take the whole peninsula ?
    Pass the Ductape
    2nd Apr 2013
    2:11pm
    Yeah, they did aquatrek, but as we know, people were totally fed up with war by then and with neither one side nor the other gaining any clear advantage, a stalemate was reached, hence the armistice was signed. Not sure which way things would go these days but I'd be prepared to bet that the North Koreans wouldn't be acting like they are today, without first consulting to some degree, with China - which is probably why no-one, including the UN, is prepared to take the North Koreans on at their own game - at least for the moment. And I still have some money left to put a bet on the fact that right now, considering China's current position in world affairs and economics, China is wishing it had never heard of Korea, let alone help it survive during the ideological War of the late 40’s and early 50’s ! China is certainly in a bind and might have to eat a lot of crow before this is over. It'll be interesting to see how the game is played from here on in.
    Olbiddy
    2nd Apr 2013
    1:30pm
    Someone needs to keep the trumped up little turkey away from the red cordial.
    aquatrek
    2nd Apr 2013
    1:32pm
    that is good hahahahaha
    ph
    2nd Apr 2013
    1:36pm
    There is always a reason to be concerned when ideologues and or madmen have control over decision making in the political process. Couple that to the neo liberal stance of all the world's political spectrum's, assuring that profit and economic growth comes before all else, needs means of increasing the demand/supply chain for manufactured goods. The great depression was resolved through economies being fed with federal monies to equip military forces that provided the means to put vast numbers of the unemployed to work with agreement from all side of politics. This is starting to look like one of those moments when several influences combine to create a situation for the possibility of a catastrophic ending/beginning. IMHO
    aquatrek
    2nd Apr 2013
    1:44pm
    reality would be the total destruction of the peninsula as North Korea can just manage to do that unless annihilated quickly - surely you do not suggest a protracted global war as the greater powers all know how destructive that would be with no certain winners anywhere
    maggierose
    2nd Apr 2013
    2:22pm
    When society chooses Godlessness, Godless men rise in power. We are reaping the consequences of our choices. We do NOT learn from past history, we close our eyes and think that if we don't look, the problem will go away. This pathetic little man, has the power of apathy on his side......as well as race of people taught from infancy to hate.......
    aquatrek
    2nd Apr 2013
    3:10pm
    on the other hand when mankind chooses God/Gods/Godesses then God fearing believers rise in power and apply their fear to other persons - therefore it has nothing to do with gods or no gods - humans are just animals [apes actually] and behave accordingly.
    Taskid
    2nd Apr 2013
    4:15pm
    maggierose You are so spot on. Apparently 70,000 Christians are imprisoned in North Korea in prison camps just because of their faith in Jesus. Aquatrek - do you really believe that?? I think you really do.

    This North Korea leader reminds me of a little boy playing with tin soldiers, sadly though they are real living humans he is playing with.
    aquatrek
    2nd Apr 2013
    4:26pm
    @Taskid: if you stepped onto my round earth, as opposed to your very flat one, my earth's spin would just simply hurl you off into space due to centrifugal forces hahaha oh, that's called science in case you cant recognize it !!
    Taskid
    2nd Apr 2013
    4:56pm
    aquatrek

    Science is wonderful in as far as it goes. Explains process, but can never explain purpose. This little man in North Korea no doubt finds science fascinating. Gives him things to play his dangerous games with.
    aquatrek
    2nd Apr 2013
    5:13pm
    @Taskid: Incorrect unsubstantiated conclusion. quote 'Science explains process, but can NEVER explain purpose' unquote. To date modern humankind has attempted to put a 'purpose' on everything using whatever was/is available - simplistically put as intellect/knowledge [ever expanding]/evolution. At present the only valid tested and still being tested and will continue to be tested one is the latter - stay tuned.
    Anonymous
    2nd Apr 2013
    8:13pm
    maggierose
    Had no idea who you were talking about, until you got to the end...thought you were referring to a particular western nation...fitted perfectly. If a race of people are taught from infancy to hate.... can't they be taught from infancy to believe in fictional beings...duh, yeah!!!
    aquatrek
    2nd Apr 2013
    8:22pm
    spot on Mussitate: any humankind devised 'g o d' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! well done
    Taskid
    2nd Apr 2013
    8:27pm
    aquatrek Apologies, I forgot you think in the small things re science and process I meant in relation to the really big picture, mankind and its purpose. Science has no answer as to the purpose, never has, never will. Evolution is a theory being passed off as a fact, but you seem happy to accept you are an ape.................Not for me, I quite like apes, but there is a chasm between them and moi. :0)
    Taskid
    2nd Apr 2013
    8:30pm
    Mussitate The only fictional things most are taught about is Santa Claus, the Tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny, (I bet you were also) - didn't see maggierose mention any of those. :0)
    aquatrek
    2nd Apr 2013
    8:59pm
    @Taskid: surprisingly you have never ever declared in all of our discourses where you as a being originates from !! This planet is Earth I believe - science would tend to support my delusion on that - and I seem to see the Sun come up everyday as my earth spins on its axis. Your planet is where ?
    Science on this planet has so far declared [with evidence] that life originated over time on this planet. There is one premise that the life may have come from space maybe via comets. Or as there is a device on Mars at present the speculation is that life may have been there also. I can only assume that as you can type that you are some form of life. But where did you come from ?
    Maybe your birth source could be interviewed live - or is she/he not with us anymore or somewhere else ? Of course that assumes that your species has dyadic sexes.
    Sorry, didnt mean to be crude as I have said the word - sex.
    aquatrek
    3rd Apr 2013
    1:47pm
    @Taskid: here is a bit of evolutionary science for you to ponder and if at all plausible - understand
    http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/mens-sex-chromosome-is-doomed-20130402-2h544.html
    student
    12th Apr 2013
    2:55pm
    Taskid, Santa Claus, the Tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny are fictional creatures?? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Please tell me that is not true!! (sniff sniff) Ummm, can you please tell me who leaves me presents at Christmas time and Easter eggs at Easter time and money at money time ?? Oooooops, I mean money for tooths??? (wink wink nudge nudge)
    Taskid
    12th Apr 2013
    3:00pm
    Student Sorry mate you have been led up the garden path and there is no Easter Bunny at the end. Turns out you must be the bunny. :0)
    Jurassicgeek
    2nd Apr 2013
    4:01pm
    When you have to deal with a bunch of out of control lunatics you need similar tactics ...a few strategically placed neucs will do the trick....
    sandyfaye
    5th Apr 2013
    12:04pm
    There is something to be said for 'assassination' sometimes. I'm sure that if America could infiltrate their country and send a couple of good operators over, they could eliminate Kim and the leaders of the military. That should do it, I guess!

    I also agree with a few strategically placed 'neucs' concentrating on the military sotres and personnel.
    sandyfaye
    5th Apr 2013
    12:04pm
    There is something to be said for 'assassination' sometimes. I'm sure that if America could infiltrate their country and send a couple of good operators over, they could eliminate Kim and the leaders of the military. That should do it, I guess!

    I also agree with a few strategically placed 'neucs' concentrating on the military sotres and personnel.
    student
    12th Apr 2013
    2:59pm
    sometimes it is better (and safer) to have the devil you know.
    gonebush
    2nd Apr 2013
    4:35pm
    dont think we will be involved we are having our own war with the election coming up and we would only be able to send 1000 troops anyway cant afford anymore just best forget it me thinks
    justme
    2nd Apr 2013
    5:17pm
    From what I have read and heard the biggest risk comes from a (justifiable) reaction to another Nth Korean military attack like the Sth Korean Ship and Island attacks.
    If local commanders start shooting back it could escalate. Then it could involve our armed forces. Wont do much for the stock exchanges either. What a dilemma for China.
    Anonymous
    3rd Apr 2013
    1:44am
    justme

    Why oh why would Australia become involved? We shouldn't, as it has nothing to do with us, it is a North Korea/South Korea/USA thing. It is a situation created by the artificial splitting of Korea and USA occupation and control.

    An easy solution would be for USA withdrawal of its occupation and the two split countries to negotiate a way to open borders and re-unite.

    Kim Jong-un would not take over and even if he did, things would change rapidly....look at Vietnam & China. The whole country would open up more, especially if the embargo's were withdrawn, giving Korea the ability to proceed along their way without interference.

    Comments below give more detail to this comment...Crazy Horse's comment is pretty good.
    Disco Diver
    2nd Apr 2013
    5:35pm
    Wasn't there a Madman in 1935 doing a simular thing, look what happened then.
    MAC22
    2nd Apr 2013
    5:37pm
    When I first heard about the young leader talking and threatening war, yes, I admit at first I was very apprehensive, as the world posseses such weapons of mass destruction, that can reach much further than it once did. The only people who profit from a war, are the suppliers of weapons of mass destruction, and their leaders egos.
    I am more balanced now, in that it is a case of Que Sera Sera, and hope common sense would prevail, and human beings become far more considerate of others and the affects that wars are very destructive to the human race, and life on earth in general. I hope good sense will prevail, however, greed is often behind this kind of decision making.
    Anonymous
    2nd Apr 2013
    7:27pm
    MAC22

    You ARE a nice person and a sensible one. I like your comment.

    2nd Apr 2013
    8:07pm
    Let us go back in HISTORY just a tad. Korea was ONE country but was split by an agreement of the victorious Allies at the conclusion of the Pacific War at the end of World War II. The Korean Peninsula was ruled by the Empire of Japan from 1910 until the end of World War II. Following the surrender of the Empire of Japan in September 1945, American administrators divided the peninsula along the 38th parallel, with U.S. military forces occupying the southern half and Soviet military forces occupying the northern half.

    North Koreans has been starved of food, medicines and trade by decades of embargoes placed on them by the USA and South Korea is basically ruled by 'friends' of the USA and houses volumes of US bases.

    The people of Korea, are still the people of Korea no matter who the ruling factors are, who control their country, even after all these decades, they would prefer to be one nation and one people.

    I find it rather disgusting that this country was split arbitrarily by western nations who have vested interests and have not been allowed to re-unite, simply because their are numerous US bases and US interests in South Korea.

    Many South Koreas, do not want the US or their bases in their country but do they have a choice?

    It is effectively a forced occupation of South Korea by the USA. Why not allow the two countries to soften borders and commence an eventual re-merger to one nation? If the North and South Koreans are of that leaning and wishing to proceed down that path....what right has the USA to stop that process.

    The carry on from Kim Jong-un, is against the USA's forced occupation and US bases and not South Korea.

    AGAIN....sigh.... our media is a syphon for the US propaganda machine, doesn't think or examine anything further, just spits out whatever it is told to.... better to incite with old world cold war bullish*t than to spin out some sense and truth, aye.

    Having said the above, I am still happy that China is getting involved to try and dampen the youthful zeal of Kim Jong-un who has grown up under the cruel embargoes placed upon his country by the USA.

    2nd Apr 2013
    8:20pm
    Oh! one more comment re: "If Kim Jong-un decides that the time has come to invade South Korea, it is likely his actions would prompt America to respond".

    PROMPT the USA to respond..... bloody hell, give us a break, the USA are PRODDING North Korea with stealth bombers flying over their country..... The USA won't be affected, anything that comes to their shores could easily be shot down, so the only thing that is a worry is their MILITARY bases in South Korea.

    So effectively, it will only be Korea that will be a war zone.....yet another offshore war.
    aquatrek
    2nd Apr 2013
    8:29pm
    what really really surprises me is that you dont just uproot and f off to some communist country.
    I say good riddance the day that you have the guts to actually leave Oz and go to where your soul really lies - in a communist/socialist controlled/dictatorship land. Unbelievable.

    First you say that the USA divided the country then you say that the western powers resolved to do that .... you twist and spin whatever you want to just to get off on your Marxist rant. More unbelievable. Unbelievable beyond belief.
    Taskid
    2nd Apr 2013
    8:35pm
    Mussitate The stealth bombers flew over South Korea not North Korea.
    Anonymous
    3rd Apr 2013
    1:20am
    Taskid
    Thank you for that correction, I did err and you are correct, the USA flew over Korea...oops..... South Korea - the sentiment remains unchanged, it was provocative and it was meant to be.

    aquatrek
    Did you read the history aspect I detailed...obviously not because your response got it all wrong.

    Next time could you give me a bit of warning......I've got fascist spittle all over my jacket...b*gger!

    You really ought to be careful aquatrek, once you are at the extreme of FASCISM you have nowhere to go but over the edge and I feel that you are standing right at the precipice of the abyss right now.

    If I was to hold out my hand to help you back into the realm of sanity, would you simply leap into the abyss......hhhmmm
    aquatrek
    3rd Apr 2013
    9:16am
    oh yes I read your dribble about how your grand plan will unite the peninsula - just drivel really as none of it is even close to reality - just silly childish wishes for this and that - try living in the real world - when wars conclude the victor makes decisions - that is how wars are played out - the Jews and Israel for example etc etc you think that with your ramblings you can just rewrite history - a god complex no doubt
    Anonymous
    4th Apr 2013
    4:22am
    aquatrek

    What will it take for you to start living in the 21st century and not back in the 20th century. Things have changed. We try to engage our brains these days and don't even bother with outdated terminology or doctrines such as communism or capitalism. They don't really mean anything these days because neither exist anymore (if they ever did in the first place).

    We don't respond with indoctrinated incantations and propagandised spewings of the 'evil' communists. It is ridiculous! China, commercially is the largest in the world.... how can you talk about communism????

    These days we simply have different forms of government which we as the people should be looking at with intelligence, to ensure that we extract the best of all systems.

    You should try it someday..... look at things with intelligence, that is.
    Abe
    2nd Apr 2013
    9:49pm
    Mussitate, How deep is the sand your head is in. Who said many South Koreans want the US bases out of their country. South Korea is winning bigtime by having US forces spend a lotta, lotta money there, and SK makes a lot of loot from rent of ' base-space'.
    Anonymous
    3rd Apr 2013
    12:53am
    Not these days Abe and yes, there are many in South Korea who would like a united Korea. Did you read the history.....this country was wrenched apart by a decree by western powers!!! All because the West had vested interests.

    How would you like Australia to be cut down the middle with different FOREIGN powers in control of each side. Tell me ..... are we still all Australian or do we become Foreign controlled 'A' and Foreign controlled 'B' and start hating each other.

    No, we don't, we are Australians and that is how we would stay.

    If Korea went back to a whole nation, you have assumed that it would be a communist one....I personally don't think it would. I think it would become more like Vietnam or Australia in the end.

    So...Abe....how's that leaking sand going. You got the hole plugged yet!
    Paddles
    3rd Apr 2013
    4:26pm
    Mussitate.......You know, carving Australia in to two on a North/South axis has a lot to recommend it. If viewed from the south, it would seem logical to deed the LEFT to your lot where you can make nice with your imported Scottish shop stewards, and our current economically illiterate flaky Government. We will watch your progress(?) from the other side of the prosperity line, in much the same way as the two Germanys did for all those years. Hopefully, in this more enlightened age, we won't actually have to build a wall or even establish a demilitarised zone such as they enjoy(?) in Korea. Perhaps you could float this idea at your next Politburo meeting.
    aquatrek
    3rd Apr 2013
    6:17pm
    its those crazy 'sandgropers' way way over there that I wouldnt trust - what with all that rust in their ground and not wanting to share it with us easterners an all - a wall might be a darn good idea - just build the rabbit fence wider and higher hehe that is after we buy Mussitate a one way ticket to Freemantle [nice pun there haha]
    Anonymous
    4th Apr 2013
    4:24am
    Goodness, the Marx brothers, ramblings of those that have nothing really to say but want to distract from what others have to say, by being inane.
    particolor
    2nd Apr 2013
    10:30pm
    I think the Chinese should show Him a few of THEIR Fire Crackers!!!
    toot2000
    2nd Apr 2013
    11:06pm
    The north invaded the south on 25 June 1950 and quickly captured Seoul. The UN invited members to help the south get rid of the dreaded Commies and US and UK troops and other allies rallied to the cause and pushed the commies back over the 38th parallel and for a short time, they controlled about 2/3 of North Korea. Then China intervened and with 180,000 of their troops they drove the allies back to the 38th parallel. The war ended in a stalemate and on 27 July 1953 a cease-fire was signed. Now the little fat man is threatening to make us all sorry.
    Anonymous
    3rd Apr 2013
    1:07am
    Who controlled the UN...especially the security council...yes, that's the one.

    So the USA invited the USA to ensure that South Korea stayed in the USA's hands....ookkkaaayyyy.

    So, North Korea tried to re-unite with its southern counterpart and become a whole again!

    Australians would do the same, if Foreign Powers split us up.

    I guess the only thing you object to is the 'form' of government that the North represents.

    Have a look at Vietnam and China.....are they really the dreaded, evil communists....

    Many here are starting to sound like Americans who have been so indoctrinated that as soon as they hear the word 'communist' they go into a spasm and run away screaming or spit hatred and want to shoot them down.

    It is merely another form of government, as is Saudi Arabia (a vicious dictatorship).

    We need to try and discard propaganda and think differently these days... the old days are gone and things are different now.

    I appreciated your historical account, it was good.
    aquatrek
    3rd Apr 2013
    9:29am
    what a spin doctor you are Mussitate - toot2000 said that the NK invaded the SK and you reiterate that as 'So, North Korea tried to re-unite with its southern counterpart and become a whole again!' They INVADED SK by FORCE - and you call that reunite - TALK ABOUT REWRITE HISTORY - get real man !!
    aquatrek
    3rd Apr 2013
    9:32am
    What you dont get about communism is that you do not have the freedoms associated with democratic countries - China's one child policy for example where you were severely penalized if you didnt comply. There are hundreds of examples the main one being free speech [your beloved ALP being led by a radical communist wants to restrict both the Oz internet and journalistic free speech] - so go chew on that dear fellow. I can help you buy a one way ticket to NK if you wish.
    Pass the Ductape
    3rd Apr 2013
    12:55pm
    I'm with you on this aquatrek. Having spoken to a friend recently who has just come back from spending a year in China teaching English, and who has spoken to me about her experiences living there, I for one won’t be voting for a change to the status quo here in Australia. The 'American or Australian Way of Life ' might not be the best way to exist, but it beats the hell out of trying to survive using the Chinese, North Korea or Vietnamese example. And we must be doing something right because you don’t see too many Vietnamese, North Koreans or Chinese migrants busting their backsides to leave Australia or the USA in an endeavour to return and live back in their own country, despite their country’s modern world resurgence. Despite its faults, Mussitate is living in a country which thankfully has followed the principles of freedom and democracy and for all it’s bad points - and in consideration as to how it was eventually achieved; good and bad, they don't appear to be in much of a hurry to leave and try the alternative.
    toot2000
    3rd Apr 2013
    2:30pm
    I think Mussi should spend some time in the Communist regimes he admires, to experience how they really work, he'd fit in very well, bashing the immoral west.
    Anonymous
    3rd Apr 2013
    4:27pm
    Ductape
    You talk about China. Tell me again how many millions of people live in China? Our western system simply could not cope with those numbers without incredible poverty and hardship being suffered by the poor.

    Just look to the USA, they are (sorry were) the richest nation in the world and their guetto's and poverty increased as the wealth of that nation increased...why? Because, vested interests were allowed to control their democratic processes and corporate media control propagandised the public. The 1% wealthy elite now own 90% of the wealth, leaving very little left to spread amongst the remaining populace.

    AUSTRALIA is one of the BEST countries to live in. One of the main reasons for that is that our wealth is spread out (more so than nearly any other nation), our government is (or was) basically independent of corporate power and abuse, our government uses tax money to build infrastructure and provide services to the people, etc. etc.

    The likes of you and aquatrek, do your utmost to ensure that we wander down the same road as the USA, instead of thinking and ensuring that those vested and corporate interests do not insidiously remove the wealth, our rights and our freedoms.

    There are many sharks now hovering around the richness of this country..... to keep them at bay, we need to question and we need to constantly demand rights to accurate information.

    We need to constantly discuss and seek improvements that are for the people and not for corporate or elite interests. We certainly do NOT need people like yourself and aquatrek attacking people who are striving to do this.


    aquatrek
    So when was the last time you had any influence over what is done by western powers, in our name....you vote for one of only two major parties... every three years. Example: Do you remember Iraq...millions around the world and in our own country were against that illegal invasion which was based on created and known lies...did we have any say, no, our illustrious leader went ahead even without parliamentary input (our elected representatives).
    Free speech....these days amounts to our Corporate (Foreign) Owned media telling us how to think and how to vote by feeding us the views of the wealthy elite, propagandising our news or simply not reporting vital information....with impunity.

    No matter the TYPE of government we, the people, should always be striving to make it better and to stop invested interests from removing our collective rights and our freedoms.

    People such as yourself aquatrek are doing a great disservice to the process of ensuring that our governments stay open and accountable, to us, the people.

    With your aggressive attacks, you stop people from bouncing ideas around and discussing various aspects of our system or other peoples systems and efforts to try and improve our system and our rights.
    Paddles
    3rd Apr 2013
    4:35pm
    It should also be noted that, in a Communist run country, we would be unlikely to enjoy the verbal intercourse (deliberately chosen word) that we do here!!
    aquatrek
    3rd Apr 2013
    6:25pm
    in a communist run country Mussitate would be instantly promoted to owner of a seaside dacha and us democrats quickly stuck on an allnight cattle train free ride to Siberia for a 'realignment education' holiday.
    Anonymous
    4th Apr 2013
    4:42am
    Clowns to the end, I see.

    Well Paddles and aquatrek, what can I say..... I could say you are morons that are living in the 20th Century under a rock of cold war propagandised indoctrination....just like those others...the 'evil' communists but I won't do that, as it would be rude.

    Unfortunately, propagandised indoctrination causes people to spit poison and hatred without any validation for such behaviour, so I will get straight to the point.

    Do you have a problem with Saudi Arabia... I haven't heard you mention them. You can NOT vote and you certainly do NOT have freedom of speech. What you do have, is a brutal dictator who has brutal laws such as cutting off hands, feet, heads or simply makes people disappear.

    Not heard about this?

    Would you ever wonder why?

    Did you know that this government is FULLY supported by the USA?

    Is it possible that is the reason you don't hear about it?
    Pass the Ductape
    4th Apr 2013
    6:47pm
    Mussitate... 'ensuring that those vested and corporate interests do not insidiously remove the wealth, our rights and our freedoms'.
    Apart from the fact that I think you must live within the parameters of a rose coloured garden, your vision seems blinded by the fact that you believe these extremely wealthy corporate people, in control of the rest of us, seem to have no purpose other than to make life very difficult for those encompassing Western values. Where is all this wealth being removed to?
    Anonymous
    6th Apr 2013
    5:32pm
    Ductape
    ????? you obviously have only looked at the corporate (foreign) owned media for your information and therefore do not know much at all about world affairs. "where is all this wealth being removed to", sorry, you are kidding....yes?????

    If 1% of the population of the USA own 90% of the wealth of that nation .... what does that tell you....... it's not hard to work out. That is a fact!!!

    The wealthy elite who own the 1% of the wealth do NOT want to "make life difficult for those encompassing western values" .... they just do not give a sh*te about them. Their only interest is accruing more and more wealth, no matter the cost. That is why, they....the wealthy elite (operating through corporations) brought down the mightiest nation in the world (USA), through their abject GREED. They infiltrated the democratic process by ensuring the political elections of members and presidents depended on ooooodles of money. They owned all the media and over the years eliminated competition, hence concentrating the media into the hands of a few and thereby controlled all the news that goes out to the people. That is...they were free to indoctrinate and propagandise a whole nation.

    Allowing these parasites of society to control our lives is insidious. They do nothing for the nation they inhabit except extract and put nothing back, either in taxes or contributions to society. Obviously there are some exceptions but not enough unfortunately.

    They do NOT represent capitalism, they breach the very concept of capitalism and distort and maim it.... what we now have in many western nations (USA in particular) is "corporatocrasy" - control of nations and governments by very large and powerful corporations.
    Pass the Ductape
    7th Apr 2013
    8:17am
    Mussitate

    You allude to my lack of knowledge concerning world corporate affairs and how it affects the distribution of wealth, (particularly in the USA) however, despite your considerable effort to explain why I must be so ignorant in these matters, you still haven’t supplied a satisfactory explanation as to what these elitist parasites do with all this accumulated wealth. The essence of you argument seems to suggest that the wealthy simply go on making money.

    So - does it end just up in ‘Scrooge’s’ vault? Perhaps these rich, corporate, elitist parasites just collect so much of it, the only thing left to do with it, is to eat it - or do they just bury it in the ground? No - I don’t think so.

    I realise this is a very simplistic view - but despite how wealth is obtained, who obtains it, or how much is obtained, there isn’t much point having wealth in the first place, if it isn’t spent. Using another simplistic approach; the wealth keeps circulating as huge boats, aeroplanes, cars and mansions are purchased by these ‘elitist parasites’, These are just a small sample of the big ticket items purchased by the very wealthy and as a consequence, the money paid out for these is distributed among other members of society. There would be a thousand other ways to accommodate the spending of wealth.
    Sorry my friend, but I see nothing in your response that explains what the wealthy, elitist parasites might do with their wealth, rather, all I detect is an extreme dislike and loathing for them. Should you have something more to offer - I’m more than happy to be enlightened.
    Crazy Horse
    2nd Apr 2013
    11:43pm
    Lets be clear about is. There is and always has been only one Korea. Both north and south are artifical constructs. What they do has got nothing to do with us. The rabidly anti- communist Americans convinced their Allies to intervene in a civil war under the UN banner after the Russians and Chinese boycotted a meeting on a proposition they thought was so ridiculous it would never get passed.

    We should just stay out of it. Unfortunately of course our sycophantic politicans (on both sides of the House) are likely to let us get dragged into yet another episode of American ideological meddling in other peoples business.
    Anonymous
    3rd Apr 2013
    1:08am
    Crazy Horse

    You simply are NOT crazy. More sense come from your mouth than anyone here....me included.

    Very well said!!!!

    Cheers
    bartpcb
    3rd Apr 2013
    2:58am
    Mussitate would seem to be the most sensible and reasonably informed one here.
    I would remind all of you right wing flag wavers, of what it was that gave rise to a nasty little lance corporal in the German army becoming a charismatic leader that led his country to attempt world domination. It was the oppressive sanctions imposed by the other nations under the guidance of USA and Britain that gave the germanic peoples the impression they had nothing to lose. North Korea may well be feeling the same. It has been spitefully ground into the dust by the USA since the 1950's, if it feels it has nothing to lose, it may well turn nasty.
    Nico
    3rd Apr 2013
    2:08pm
    Bartpcb, that seems to be the most logical explanation to date. No one likes wars but if leaders see NO WAY OUT then anything can eventuate, as it did in Germany.
    Lets assume that the West would lift the blockades, especially for foods, medicals and other essentials and give NK some breathing space. IMO such a move could have a significant influence on the NK population and certainly avoid further aggressive behaviour from the North. My fear is that the US would not consider such action because of the need for a war somewhere to save their economy from total collapse. It's most likely a Catch22 problem.
    aquatrek
    3rd Apr 2013
    2:28pm
    here ya go Nico - this what is told to school children - that should suite you and bartpcb and the history rewriting guru Mussitate to a T.
    http://www.chiddingstone.kent.sch.uk/homework/britain.html
    pls dont forget to note the WWI relationship with WWII and try not to separate them
    happy happy reschooling and relearning
    Nico
    3rd Apr 2013
    7:39pm
    aquatrek, I do appreciate the link and have read the first page. Now, could you please tell me the salient parts that I should remember when discussing the NK situation. My guess is that you are a proponent of "crash and burn" instead of exhausting the more civil approaches would could avoid a total disaster. We all know that the little pip-squeak in NK has a stubby or two missing, but that makes him even more suspect of pushing a button if cornered entirely. Irrationally thinking people need to be treated with care and not threatened by more pressures. Keep pushing him like the US is doing now and he will fire the first shot. The end result may not be in his favour but he'll send a lot of innocent people to their graves. Diplomacy is not a dead end street and certainly not the first door to be slammed in to his face. A 3rd WW will wipe out a lot of what we call civilisation, and I am still far too young to die......according to your re-schooling program!
    bartpcb
    3rd Apr 2013
    3:05am
    Comments from persons rubbishing the whimsical stories of 'unicorns' etc, of another nation seem a little strange, especially when that persons nation teaches the Easter bunny and Father Christmas and pots of gold at the end of rainbows to it's children!!!
    toot2000
    3rd Apr 2013
    7:58am
    Korea used to belong to Japan before the WWW2, just goes to show you can lose big time if you pick the wrong side when fighting a world war. The Japanese made their King abdicate and married his son off to a Japanese woman. Mussitate, you sound like a commie, why not go and give the north a hand, they could use an intelligent chap like yourself.
    Anonymous
    3rd Apr 2013
    3:00pm
    toot2000
    Sorry to read that you have apparently joined the ranks of aquatrek's fascist regime and attacking anything that is said with nastiness and extremism which has little basis on logic or even history but is based on indoctrination and propaganda.

    Very little to talk to you about when you bury your head in the mire of such fascist shovellings.
    Anonymous
    3rd Apr 2013
    3:00pm
    toot2000
    Sorry to read that you have apparently joined the ranks of aquatrek's fascist regime and attacking anything that is said with nastiness and extremism which has little basis on logic or even history but is based on indoctrination and propaganda.

    Very little to talk to you about when you bury your head in the mire of such fascist shovellings.
    Anonymous
    3rd Apr 2013
    3:27pm
    Sorry, toot2000, there has been a hiccup and two comments appeared when only one was posted.
    Paddles
    3rd Apr 2013
    4:41pm
    That's one of the oldest political tricks in the book. ALWAYS repeat yourself in the hope that the message will get through!
    Anonymous
    3rd Apr 2013
    4:47pm
    Paddles

    Took me half a second of reading your message to repeat a response I had made to aquatrek and ductape, into a separate comment below!

    See how you learn from others - I was a bit embarrassed about the above doubling up but your comment made me smile and think!!

    Got a big grin on my face now. Tah, Paddles
    Taskid
    3rd Apr 2013
    9:04am
    I doubt there could be a reconciliation of the North and South. For one thing the South has 13+ million Christians, 850,000 of them in one denomination alone - the North publicly beheaded a woman for handing out Bibles and imprisoned her family. There are estimated to be 70,000 Christians in prison camps in North Korea. The attitude in the North would have to alter dramatically from its atheistic communism to reconcile the differences.
    aquatrek
    3rd Apr 2013
    9:24am
    speak to the god who can rewrite history - one esteemed honourable Marxist called Mussitate
    Anonymous
    3rd Apr 2013
    3:25pm
    Taskid

    Maybe, just maybe, when the foreign power that occupies the South is gone, the two countries can work out their own differences and find a solution that fits all OR they don't and the two countries stay separate OR there is an in-between whereby they are separate but with softer borders.
    Who knows, but it is something for them to work out, without interference from foreign powers or religious orders. It should be decided democratically by the MAJORITY of the people and not just a handful of powerful individuals with a lot to lose (i.e. wealth and power).
    Taskid
    3rd Apr 2013
    4:00pm
    Mussitate Ah maybe in a perfect world your idea might work, but we do not have a perfect world as we know.

    Majorities are fine as long as they are on the right path, but they are not always. The majority of Germans followed Hitler, we cannot pretend they were right surely?
    Anonymous
    3rd Apr 2013
    4:42pm
    Bringing up Hitler and Germany is a bit strange because Hitler was a devout Christian.

    Additionally, the German people at that time were placed under extreme (or cruel) embargoes and were suffering real hardship (North Korea...sound familiar). They were then indoctrinated with religious and other propaganda to allow Hitler to do whatever he wanted.

    So, you have proved my point, it certainly should NOT be based on religious beliefs.
    Paddles
    3rd Apr 2013
    4:45pm
    "It should be decided democratically by the MAJORITY of the people and not just a handful of powerful individuals "..................Democracy and totalitarianism are mutually exclusive I've always believed.
    Taskid
    3rd Apr 2013
    5:00pm
    Mussitate Another myth. Hitler had been a "member" of a denomination, namely Roman Catholocism. That did not make him even a nominal Christian let alone a "devout one." Just because someone joins a tennis club he does not suddenly become a tennis great. May not even be able to hit the ball. Please get your facts straight.
    Taskid
    3rd Apr 2013
    5:14pm
    Mussitate Don't take my word forthe fact "Hitler being a Christian" is a myth. Here is Wikipedia's take:

    "The adult Adolf Hitler was a rationalist and a materialist, who saw Christianity as a religion fit for slaves, and a rebellion against the natural law of selection and survival of the fittest.[1] Raised a Catholic, Hitler had some respect for the 'great position' of that church, but became deeply hostile to its teachings.[2] In office, Hitler sought to control the German Churches through Gleichschaltung and sought to eliminate Judaism by all means possible. He supported the Nazi aligned Deutsche Christen church which rejected the Hebrew origins of the Gospel.[3] In his book Mein Kampf and in public speeches he often made statements that affirmed a belief in adaptations of Christianity.[4][5] Prior to World War II Hitler had promoted "positive Christianity" (in opposition to traditional Roman and Protestant "negative Christianity"), a movement which purged Christianity of its Jewish elements and instilled it with Nazi philosophy.[6] According to the controversial collection of transcripts edited by Martin Bormann, titled Hitler's Table Talk, as well as the testimony of some intimates, Hitler had privately negative views of Christianity. Others reported he was a committed believer.[7][8] Many historians say that Hitler had a general covert plan, which some say existed even before the Nazis' rise to power, to destroy Christianity within the Reich, which was to be accomplished through control and subversion of the churches and to be completed after the war.[9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17] Hitler appointed the anti-Judaist, anti-Christian Alfred Rosenberg as official Nazi ideologist and Martin Bormann as private secretary ('deputy fuhrer'), who together collaborated in efforts to eliminate the influence of churches in German life."
    Anonymous
    3rd Apr 2013
    5:20pm
    Paddles

    Don't really understand this statement because a 'handful of individuals' is not referring to totalitarianism (dictator). You appear to have grasped a concept and tried to apply it to my comment, but it doesn't quite fit, does it?

    Nonetheless, I like your comment because it gives me the opportunity to talk about perceived democracy and control by elite groups.

    Let's look carefully at the USA for example we are aware that most people in the USA think that they are the most democratic nation in the world. However, the control of their country is in the hands of a select few who own 90% of the wealth and therefore have extensive power (through their corporations and control of the media and also the vast sums donated to political parties), which means that the reality of their 'democracy' is not true.

    They are ruled by political doctrine, as are other countries. For example, China is ruled by communism and the USA is ruled by corporations. The former is 'supposed' to be for the people and the latter is specifically for the elite.

    Both forms of rule seem to have gone the way of controlling the people by any means, so that the elite maintain power and wealth.

    I really can't see a lot of difference, except the latter could not cope with the millions of people the former are required to cope with.

    Neither are without forms of control..the corporations have to work around the USA's constitution and law which is way easier than we think (especially when the elite have been recently proclaimed as above the law and are not prosecuted for their criminal activities - eg bankers/financiers) and China has to work within the rules of their doctrine and fear of a people's uprising.

    So....'democracy'...something we have to work hard to attain to ensure those powerful elite don't wrest it from our grasp - no matter corporation or doctrine.
    Anonymous
    3rd Apr 2013
    5:43pm
    Taskid
    Christianity was part of his original election platform (children, home, church).
    The bloke was rabid (as in rabies), so all things got warped.

    Besides, it was not I that brought up Hitler when discussing christianity, you did???? Settle...sheez.
    Taskid
    3rd Apr 2013
    8:26pm
    Mussitate I brought up Hitler to illustrate that the "majority" is not always right. That had nothing to do with Christianity. You had made some vague reference to "religion" which is not Christianity and I used Hitler as an example of how misled "the majority" can and was wrong. Hitler was not a Christian, never a Christian - I don't care what sort of evil deceptions about Christianity he used to justify his incredibly sick and evil system, it was not from any knowledge of Jesus.
    That is the fact.
    Anonymous
    4th Apr 2013
    3:06am
    Hitler started his political platform with many elements and one of those was christianity....

    I guess you don't want to claim Anders Behring Breivik as a christian either, even though his sole reason for massacring the children in Norway was for the love of christ.

    I'm sure there are many other nutters out there from other religions that have done similar disgusting things in the name of their religion too. I certainly don't think this sort of thing is restricted to christianity.

    Now, before you jump up and down and proclaim that you are not a religion (we have had this discussion on numerous occasions)...Religion = "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods".

    Hence, you are religious and a religion. Just because you don't want to be 'called' a religion, doesn't mean that you aren't one.

    I am also not trying to upset your beliefs, they are yours and you are welcome to them. I am simply responding to your posts - to ME - from my point of view.
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    8:47am
    mussitate
    Hitler was not ever a true Christian. That much I know. What evil sinful people do in the name of Jesus is part of their fallen nature. He does not recognise them and He makes that plain in His Word to us.

    You are blinded by your determination to cling to hating Jesus and His people. I am not a religious person. You have no idea of the difference between religion and a relationship with the Living God so I realise you cannot really make informed comment. You rely on what man says because that is all, by your own choice, you have.

    You cannot upset my "beliefs" because I don't have mere "beliefs" I have a sure knowledge of Whom I serve. I appreciate from your point of view that you cannot comprehend that. You could because anyone who turns to Him and repents with a sincere heart can know Him. He holds the invitation to all, but so many reject Him for what???? I know I did for many years, I was so foolish in my human pride. I was spiritually dead and could not know Him.

    That is life, most seem to prefer spiritual death just like the sad little man in North Korea. He thinks he is rich and powerful, when Jesus looks upon him he sees him as "naked poor and blind."

    3rd Apr 2013
    4:30pm
    Ductape
    You talk about China. Tell me again how many millions of people live in China? Our western system simply could not cope with those numbers without incredible poverty and hardship being suffered by the poor.

    Just look to the USA, they are (sorry were) the richest nation in the world and their guetto's and poverty increased as the wealth of that nation increased...why? Because, vested interests were allowed to control their democratic processes and corporate media control propagandised the public. The 1% wealthy elite now own 90% of the wealth, leaving very little left to spread amongst the remaining populace.

    AUSTRALIA is one of the BEST countries to live in. One of the main reasons for that is that our wealth is spread out (more so than nearly any other nation), our government is (or was) basically independent of corporate power and abuse, our government uses tax money to build infrastructure and provide services to the people, etc. etc.

    The likes of you and aquatrek, do your utmost to ensure that we wander down the same road as the USA, instead of thinking and ensuring that those vested and corporate interests do not insidiously remove the wealth, our rights and our freedoms.

    There are many sharks now hovering around the richness of this country..... to keep them at bay, we need to question and we need to constantly demand rights to accurate information.

    We need to constantly discuss and seek improvements that are for the people and not for corporate or elite interests. We certainly do NOT need people like yourself and aquatrek attacking people who are striving to do this.


    aquatrek
    So when was the last time you had any influence over what is done by western powers, in our name....you vote for one of only two major parties... every three years. Example: Do you remember Iraq...millions around the world and in our own country were against that illegal invasion which was based on created and known lies...did we have any say, no, our illustrious leader went ahead even without parliamentary input (our elected representatives).
    Free speech....these days amounts to our Corporate (Foreign) Owned media telling us how to think and how to vote by feeding us the views of the wealthy elite, propagandising our news or simply not reporting vital information....with impunity.

    No matter the TYPE of government we, the people, should always be striving to make it better and to stop invested interests from removing our collective rights and our freedoms.

    People such as yourself aquatrek are doing a great disservice to the process of ensuring that our governments stay open and accountable, to us, the people.

    With your aggressive attacks, you stop people from bouncing ideas around and discussing various aspects of our system or other peoples systems and efforts to try and improve our system and our rights.
    aquatrek
    3rd Apr 2013
    5:12pm
    here ya go - may as well spoon feed you like a child - this is what is told to school children
    http://www.chiddingstone.kent.sch.uk/homework/britain.html
    pls dont forget to note the WWI relationship with WWII and try not to separate them
    happy happy reschooling and relearning
    Anonymous
    3rd Apr 2013
    5:31pm
    eerrrrhhh.....try again, you must have pressed the wrong button. This is a repeat of your earlier comment to something entirely different and has absolutely no relevance??!!!

    Can't find an answer or incapable of intelligent discussion, so you simply DIVERT???

    I suppose it is better than your personal attacks on people to try and stop them from discussing things you seem to be incapable of comprehending.
    aquatrek
    3rd Apr 2013
    6:07pm
    you must have worn off your drugs a bit as your post above this one starts to have some clear rational thought about it as you are able to fairly disseminate the two types of governance - communist and democratic. Yet you still make unfounded speculations in that a USA style democracy just couldnt handle the vast numbers of peoples like the China population. That is unfounded speculation - like sticking your wet finger in the air in the hope that you can tell which way the wind might be blowing from.

    What is very very clear is that in Oz since 1901 there is a marked difference in the apparent two party system - and I just rechecked the figures from here
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Australia
    NLP = 66 % and ALP = 34% governance since 1901 thats 2/3 versus 1/3 therefore the mix of liberalist/nationalist democracy versus socialist democracy has made this country what it is.

    Neither the Chinese or the NK can vote freely therefore speculation about what ifs for their countries, given the unrewritable histories, is an absolute waste of time. You freely bash the free countries like the UK and the USA and Oz for their global policies but neglect to acknowledge the dictatorial visciousness of say NK where nobody can vote freely.
    Anonymous
    4th Apr 2013
    3:49am
    aquatrek

    You lambast and insult, then make some inane statements that I am supposed to respond nicely too.

    I will hold my tongue and not 'play' with you dear aquatrek... this time!

    The USA has third world poverty which is growing...fact. Their population is no where near 1.3billion, so you tell me how they would handle this number of people without half of them having to live in squalid poverty. 90% of the wealth is owned by 1% of the people.... I really don't think that 10% of the countries wealth would go around 1.2billion people, do you? Additionally, their public education system is nearly non existent and health and hospitals costs a fortune and the government is skeletal with little or no ability to provide adequate public housing. Is that enough.... or do you want more...

    I will not check your figures because I don't have to.... your mix may be correct but it is a general policy of the NLP to NOT invest in infrastructure or services to the people or actually do a lot at all which means that the ALP must have done a lot of work during the short time that they were in. Example: Whitlam, in his term he introduced over 200 bills with two of them giving so much to the Australian people - FREE public health (Medicare) and FREE tertiary or higher education which included Student Assistance. You had to pay for all medical services prior to this which meant that only the wealthy got good health care. Additionally, the ordinary worker could not send their kids to university, even if they were brilliant - university was restricted to those with money and not those with the most ability. It essentially goes back to quality and not quantity, I guess.

    We are getting desperate to accuse me of Australian bashing when it is you that denigrates our wonderful Australian system of spreading the wealth more evenly throughout the population, so don't try that rubbish on me.

    Okay, aquatrek, what has the USA done for Australia.
    WE have backed the USA in all matters, including their illegal invasions/slaughter of civilians (based on lies), coups against democratically elected governments, funding, supporting and/or placement of despots, in South America and Middle East....etc, etc
    In return, the USA has undermined our international trade by using their bases in Australia to listen to shipping reports and pass that information along to American corporations. They have put political/military pressure on countries to change trading partners from Australian to the USA, even after it was Australians that had done the hard work and broken into those particular markets.
    Yes, I know, if we ever needed them, they would be right here.... but if it wasn't in their interests to be there... would they? Also, we wouldn't need them to 'be there' if it wasn't for us supporting their bloody endeavours in the first place!

    Each of these topics is a book all on its own but I have done the best I could in the circumstances.
    aquatrek
    4th Apr 2013
    7:35am
    rant rant rant against the USA - they stopped the Japs from ruining your socialistic leanings remember? Allegiances are made across nations ever since Adam threw the first rock at the coveting neighbour. YOU cannot rewrite history to suit yourself. That the USA were the powerhouse of the times is past HISTORY.
    It wont be long before the ALP have sold the last bit of rusty dirt to your commie buddies so that they can accelerate their own prosperity. But then the ALP wont be here for much longer and just as well. 2/3 of the Oz governance since 1901 by those who know how to properly manage the urban and rural sectors cannot be denied yet it is a fact that you cannot stomach. Well tough bickies mate. IF - its my turn to create fictional maybes - the ALP had governed longer than it has then its likely that history would have been vastly different and you would be stiff legged marching to a bright red flag with no blue or stars on it bucko.
    aquatrek
    3rd Apr 2013
    7:06pm
    Mussitate: I hope that you watched the SBS news - no not some ideological twisting of the news as you constantly cry wolf about - the news was about a farmer in Vietnam who was being evicted, according to the Viet government policy, from his land but with no compensation. Yet you say that Vietnam is a model of communist harmony and betterment for the peoples who are so lucky to reside there - well, you go live there.
    Anonymous
    4th Apr 2013
    3:56am
    For crying out loud. Is that all you've got!

    It happens all around the world..... Saudi Arabia for instance. The place where no one gets to vote and if they say anything about their dictator they could lose their hands, feet, head or simply disappear. A country that is run by a brutal dictator which is fully supported by the USA..... you remember the one don't you.

    Funny, I don't hear you complain about that country or it's method of governing.
    aquatrek
    4th Apr 2013
    7:17am
    yep - as usual to quote yourself back to you - divert the topic away from the one that you dont want to discuss - the topic is NK - not SA.
    You have tried to rewrite history, constantly blame everything on the USA and probably think that the weather comes from there as well, deny that socialism cloaks communism/Marxism in the ALP, and come across as a dangerous socialist bent on altering the way that Oz is governed, not just to myself but others also.
    ps - I had a Saudi student stay with me so have at least a 1 to 1 knowledge of what life is like there and not what you attempt to portray although I am not condoning the barbaric Islamic practices. Islam itself is another mad kettle of very crazy snakes - a bit like NK.
    aquatrek
    4th Apr 2013
    7:49am
    Here is a bit of history for you to digest - it may explain why they are the way that they are:
    After the First Sino-Japanese War and the Russo-Japanese War, Korea was annexed by the Empire of Japan in 1910, leading to 35 years of military rule. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#Before_the_division]. That takes it up to WWII and the defeat of Japan by the coalition of international forces. So that nation has been fighting amongst itself for hundreds of years prior, plus against China etc followed by 35 years of Nippon rule. No wonder that the leaders are nutters. Then they had a famine around 1990. But they get by because China was reported as the provider of approximately 70% of North Korea's annual trade in 2011. So your USA embargo rant rant rant goes out the window as well. Try rewriting all those facts.
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    8:55am
    Mussitate and Aquatrek. You are both arguing past one another. Blaming this, blaming that, "this country is to blame, that country is to blame" - both of you speak soem sensible things and some which seem to be off the wall.

    We have had a wonderful nation because it was founded on Christianity. It is deteriorating now as we turn away from that. I am glad I live here, it is a great country, I am also glad I grew up in it when people had a healthy regard for morality and what was right and what was wrong. That was its strength, sadly we are losing that. Comeon guys shake hands and agree to differ. Take a moment to realise how blessed you both are to live in Australia.
    aquatrek
    4th Apr 2013
    9:18am
    @Taskid: I appreciate your comments but you are also guilty of putting this nation down when what you say is far from the truth. Mussitate would have us all bow to some stronger form of socialistic democracy [heaven forbid that he wishes communism like China has yet that has been his pitch]. You say that there is a decline in morality - where may I ask > darn to late I said that - that the churches have declined in their influence over daily lives is a fact. That is because all things change over time, especially societies. Australia is no longer the 'white Oz' of the past. The media through technology now shows every bad event in detail whereas in the past prior the 50's there were only newspapers for information [and the radio]. If you hadnt noticed the whole world is constantly changing - physically [climate change], socially [China & India], the wobbly western fiscal democracies [PIGS + C] etc etc. It is what I am studying at uni. Technologies impact upon society.
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    9:43am
    aquatrek
    Thanks for your comment. Morality has declined in many areas as you would know. You only have to look around at some subjects on these forums.

    I suggest the real Church has not declined, that is the body of true believers wherever they may be or worship. Denominations have declined and for good reason, they put their faith in man-made teachings/rituals and traditions and ignored the fact that real Christianity is a relationship with Jesus. Without Him there is no power in denominations, well only man-power and as we know that is pretty faulty in many areas.

    Things change, things stay the same. The more progress the more regress in many areas. People are becoming dislocated from one another, relationships are based on "what's in it for me" so often and they fail. Communities are full of isolated, often lonely people. People care only for themselves, what they have, who they can impress, how much money they can get. Young people are also dislocated - searching for meaning in drugs, booze, computer games, violence, and sex. Tragically for many it is suicide or an early death. No one teaches them there is more. Education appears to fail many in preparing them for life, parents have no time. Need I go on. I am off topic. I still believe Australia is a wonderful country, but I am old enough and wise enough to acknowledge where she has flourished and where she has deteriorated.

    I am sure you are finding uni very invigorating and interesting tell us more about it.

    I am sure we can agree the university of life is the most prolific teacher when it comes to social mores. Have a great day.

    Have a great day.
    aquatrek
    4th Apr 2013
    11:54am
    Yet again we disagree - Its your perceptions being fed by an increased amount of available information that is having an affect upon your opinion of the world. The coined phrase 'information overload is real.
    Humankind's inquisitiveness is what drives humanity. That urge manifests itself as technology. Technology is ubiquitous and pervasive - from the first human who deliberately lit a fire or altered a stone through to the latest space walker. Knowledge scientifically is increasing exponentially yet there is a loss of the intrinsic as in the sensory capabilities. Technical innovations are dulling the use of the senses in many respects. On the other hand theories abound about everything when before there were few.
    Faiths, beliefs, secularism are all facets of the human mind. Morality is the same as it has always been. Religions have come and gone. Superstition, myths and legends have come and gone. Science has improved the survival period doubling in just a few hundred years and the populations have exploded. Nevertheless, the aberrations in human society have always been there and always will be there, now magnified by the largess of the populations - unless evolution profoundly alters humankind. I must stop.
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    1:04pm
    aquatrek. You state the obvious, no mystery there. Religions, being man-made may have come and gone, but are you aware of the research which indicates that many races at various times even though having there own little "gods" made of stone etc, they also had a identifiable belief in a God who was over and above all. If you looked beyond the end of your prejudice you would find that God the Creator has alwyas been there and people have known it. Facets of the knowledge of many isolated races line up with the Bible story of how man came to be even though there has been no possible contact at the time of their writings with other theistic people.

    God revealed Himself to the Jews and then redeemed those who turn to Him through Jesus. No amount of your trying to elevante man, his machines, technology or science will ever change that immutable fact. Thank God there is more to life than what man can produce, see, destroy, imagine. Ahhhhhhhh Aquatek my friend, you have learned much and yet still have much to learn. :0) Our little sad man in North Korea is in the pickle he is in because he has a purely humanistic mindset. He too will learn one day he is not the master of all he purveys. :0)
    aquatrek
    4th Apr 2013
    1:24pm
    I object yet again for the millionth time about you ramming your religion into my face - you never ever will learn and that is why you upset and annoy many on here. At every opportunity you evangelize therefore making any discourse with you absolutely repugnant. You are mentally ill.
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    1:31pm
    Aquatrek. The Truth will always annoy those who endeavour to ignore it. I have no religion, I just know and follow Jesus. I am not mentally ill. I could report you for suggesting it. That is a personal attack. However, as I know you do not understand I will merely bless you instead. :0)
    Twyla
    3rd Apr 2013
    9:12pm
    I suspect that Kim Jong-un is attempting to establish himself as a 'strong' leader. A cynical exercise which unforunately can set off un-wished for repercussions in the area. I doubt (I may be wrong) that he does not think he will be challenged.
    Anonymous
    4th Apr 2013
    4:07am
    Couldn't argue with that Twila. You are probably right.

    Although his gripe is with the USA and its bases in South Korea, rather than South Korea, itself. To have a huge military power on your door step, the same one that has placed embargoes on your country for decades and which Kim Jong-un has grown up under (watching his people starve and suffer hardships), may also have something to do with it.

    But I do tend to agree that it is chest bashing, well I hope so anyway!
    toot2000
    4th Apr 2013
    9:23am
    China seems reluctant to intervene and I wonder why. Let's imagine that the west wipes out NK and the country unites. China would then have the pro-western country of Korea on their doorstep and from their point of view, not a good idea.
    toot2000
    4th Apr 2013
    11:34am
    South Korea desperately wants “nuclear sovereignty” so they can be independent of the west because they’re not sure if America will protect them. Are they likely to rush into another war after the fiasco of Iraq and Afghanistan? But America is between a rock and a hard place, how can America allow SK to have nuclear programs when they are trying to persuade North Korea and Iran to give them up?
    aquatrek
    4th Apr 2013
    12:09pm
    the whole region is a 'hotspot' - China versus Japan over a few rocks in the ocean [the Falklands again ?]; China's perceived 'ownership' of Taiwan; NK versus SK along a dotted zoned 38th line. China keeping NK 'alive' via trade. They are all nutters.
    If Mussitate is correct in that the USA 'needs' a war for economic reasons alone then it takes just one ill fired bullet to set it all off. But I think that the USA public are totally fed up with war. The concept that war drives national prosperity I think is a stratagem from the past. Nowadays there may be no winner - Bosnia, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and soon Syria ?
    toot2000
    4th Apr 2013
    3:02pm
    Did Mussi really say that the USA needs another war, that boy needs de-programming badly.
    Anonymous
    6th Apr 2013
    5:49pm
    No not really toot2000, they just need the distraction from their very serious woes at home. I don't really think they can 'afford' a war, even though I suppose they can just print a few more trillion $ to cover it. They are that far in the manure now, I don't suppose a few more trillion will hurt.

    (written with tongue in cheek, toot2000, but with a high truth factor)
    Twyla
    4th Apr 2013
    2:57pm
    Taskid,
    We all know you have a relationship with Jesus. However, Jesus doesn't like to be constantly mentioned, indeed ad nauseum, when just the sound of his name results in irritation. We all know children, whose parents were devout, but went the other way because of their parents' constant sermonising. If you know that you are changing people, then 'go for it'. Equally, if you know that people are acting negatively towards sermonising, then reason will tell you - as will Jesus - that they will turn away in droves. Remember Pavlov's dogs.

    Taskid, You really need to have another 'deep and meaningful' with Jesus. Jesus loved parties and was never a 'party pooper'. As Jesus says, 'there's a time and place for everything ... a season to live, a season to die, and a season to debate online without mentioning him.
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    3:24pm
    Twila Thank you for your comment. I can assure you Jesus never tires of His people mentioning His Name. I only responded to Aquatrek as he insists on ignoring the fact I am not religious. I just tell the Truth. I think you will find it was Solomon in the Old Testament who said about the seasons, not Jesus. Jesus never mentioned parties He was too busy speaking the Truth, healing people and casting out demons to be bothered with such frivolity. Have you ever had a deep and meaningful with Him??? Don't think so, you would not be criticising me if you had.

    Do people in here want us to have a country where unless you keep Jesus out of the conversation you risk imprisonment or death - that is what happens to Christians in North Korea. Last year a woman was publicly beheaded in North Korea, for mentioning Jesus and handing out Bibles, 70,000 Christians are currently imprisoned there for their faith. Are we becoming that intolerant as well??? Posters go on and on about the same old same old in here many times, do I complain?? Not at all. I don't swear, tell dirty jokes or insult people in the tone many do in here and yet I am the problem??? Oh well.............
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    3:41pm
    Looks as if the world may have a breathing space and time for the dictator to cool down:

    "(Reuters) - North Korea can probably restart a mothballed plutonium-producing reactor in six months if it is determined to do so and the site has suffered no major structural damage, but it may take years to produce significant new atom bomb material."
    Twyla
    4th Apr 2013
    4:05pm
    Taskid,
    He only preached for three years ... and that was when he was not partying ... turning water into wine, etc. Jesus wants people to enjoy life ... 'my yoke is sweet, etc. etc.

    Telling the truth is great, but only if your listeners are receptive. Jesus doesn't like preaching to captive audiences (such as online debates) ... and he's not too keen on people who live in Tasmania upstaging him (and something about the water).

    Jesus also wants people to know that god gave humans brains and expects them to use this gift ... hence science ... hence the science of evolution. Jesus says humans were not 'placed' on earth, but evolved ... perhaps ... some not as evolved as others.

    Jesus doesn't like arrogant people; ... and he especially not keen of those who make assumptions about others.

    No one is suggesting that you be imprisoned or killed. But do keep a sense of proportion.
    Doesn't the fact that your sermonising brings negative comments, even insults, means that others are now irritated about 'Jesus this and Jesus that'. In fact, it could be said that you bring the name of Jesus into disrepute.
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    4:30pm
    Twila We are off topic discussing this. Jesus reluctantly turned the water into wine at His mother's request in Cana at a wedding, not a "party."

    Not sure what you have been reading but it is not God's Word. Jesus never contradicted the Old Testament wherever He quoted it so He certainly did not mention "evolution" - that is Darwin's mad unproveable theory.

    Jesus certainly is not pleased with people who misquote Him and misrepresent His ministry and if that is not arrogance I don't know what is.

    If you knew anything about Him you would know just His presence on earth irritated those who preferred to walk in darkness - then as it does now. To the extent they crucified Him - but as Christians know, the grave could not hold Him.

    The invitation 28“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29“Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30“For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
    was the same invite He gives today to those who repent and believe in Him. He also spoke of the fate of those who refused to accept Him - then and now. He never compromised the Truth - He said, I am the Way the Truth and the Life.

    I can never bring the name of Jesus into disrepute and I find that an offensive suggestion. You do it by misrepresenting Him.

    Anyway we are off topic and this is not useful. If you ever wish to have a serious, intelligent and informed discussion about Jesus let me know.

    I did not suggest I would be imprisoned or killed, but this is what is happeningin North Korea and to hundreds of thousands of Christians in 52 countries which are intolerant of Christianity.
    aquatrek
    4th Apr 2013
    5:08pm
    'Darwin's mad unproveable theory'. It is you who are definitively mad. I gave you an evolution link yesterday but you dont even have the courtesy to look at it. Darwin and a cupla others were on the same track of intellectual observance and thought at the same time yet you berate only Darwin because he was published first. The scientific world have moved far beyond Darwin's 'Natural Selection' concept.
    You are stuck firmly on your 2,000 year olde flat earth. You know absolutely nothing at all = zip = zero = 0 about evolution. If you did you would be even madder. Stay mad then - Jesus obviously couldnt give a rats about you and your madness. Namaste.
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    5:14pm
    aquatrek. I have said before, anyone who wishes to believe the myth that their ancestors crawled out of slime and that their recent rellies hung from trees is welcome to do so. It explains a lot about their attitude to life and others. I just know mine didn't.

    If you are happy being an elevated ape, go for it. I will not stand in your way.

    I will not give your last comments the dignity of reply. I think even apes have some regard for their fellow apes. Not sure where that leaves you.
    aquatrek
    4th Apr 2013
    5:34pm
    as always ALIEN MEK - your real name - you have never ever explained just where you come from ? Come on - we wont laugh at you - much.
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    5:39pm
    Aquatrek There is no point speaking to one who is so apparently bereft of intelligence. I just bless you and leave you be.
    Twyla
    4th Apr 2013
    4:41pm
    Taskid,
    If you are reading the new testament, this is not Jesus' words. The writers had never even met Jesus ... indeed, they even contradict themselves. If you know anything about weddings, especially Jewish weddings, you would know that it was definitely a party ... and, it would seem, a very boozey one at that.

    And, yes, we are off topic.
    aquatrek
    4th Apr 2013
    5:10pm
    yes and nope - we are on Taskid's only topic and unfortunately thats what she feeds on.
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    5:18pm
    Whole lot better than what you apparently feed on aquatrek - ripe bananas isn't it?
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    4:52pm
    Twila You talk nonsense I am afraid. I have had this tired old conversation with others who are unbelievers. You are the one who has never met Jesus. When you do, you will see your foolish talk for what it is. Having been to Israel, to Cana even, I think I know a thing or two about how the Jews celebrate. Now please stay on topic.
    Twyla
    4th Apr 2013
    5:42pm
    Taskid,
    What is the length of time humans have been on earth?

    You know that two Christian groups existed. Those of the Church of Jerusalem which comprised of Jesus’ original apostles and desciples, including Mary, (Jesus’ mother), James (his brother), Peter and John; the other the Pauline community.

    The Jerusalem community taught a “Christianity” at such variance with Paul’s, that Paul himself referred to their teachings as “another gospel” ... “another Jesus.”

    The Jerusalem community denied that Paul had been an apostle, indeed had never met Jesus.
    Paul’s intention was to establish that his teachings were divine in origin. This was at complete variance with that taught by the original apostles.

    Paul distances himself from the Jerusalem group in a letter to the Galatians:

    “I would have you know, bretheren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man ... but came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.”

    In Paul’s Second Epistle to the Corinthians, he defends himself from the Jerusalem group, which regarded him of unsound mind, of being delusional. The Jerusalem community recognised Jesus’ death as a ‘human event’; Paul, on the other hand, claimed it as a ‘mystical event. Paul wrote:

    “... even though we once regarded (oidamen) Christ from a human point of view, we regard (ginoskomen) him thus no longer ...

    The Jerusalem community perished in the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 AD.

    Jesus' own disciples and apostles did not see him as divine.

    Paul also had some pretty nasty things to say about women ... especially those who preached.

    Taskid, I stand by what I said about Jews knowing how to party, especially at marriages. Who on earth were you mixing with?
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    5:55pm
    Twila This is off topic. I have extended the invite to discuss Jesus in an intelligent manner (as much as one can with aggressively unbelieving people) elsewhere - if you wish to continue, put the topic up and I will join you there.

    You will need to brush up on some of your information though not just dish up stuff you have searched online. I am no longer responding to anti-Christian rhetoric, (no matter how "clever-sounding") on this topic site out of respect for other posters. Bless you.
    toot2000
    4th Apr 2013
    6:23pm
    Another interesting topic hijacked and destroyed.
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    6:29pm
    Yes Aquatrek and Twila have something to answer for toot2000
    Twyla
    4th Apr 2013
    7:08pm
    I truly apologise to those who know we have gone off topic.

    Taskid,
    This will be my last comments to you. No one has challenged your information before. I did not trawl the internet, but provided facts. I suggest you learn Aramaic and Biblical Greek.

    Read Paul's account of the split between the two groups in Galatians 2.

    Peter became aware of the full extent of Paul's views, resulting in a serious rift began between Pauline and the Jerusalem church

    Paul was accused by James of teaching Jews "to turn their backs on Moses" (Acts 21:21). Paul evaded the charge, but his real views were revealed by other Christians. A stormy protest ensued in which Paul fearing for his life was rescued by the Roman police, to whom he declared for his protection that he was a Roman citizen. This was the end of Paul's association with the Jerusalem Church.

    I am not anti-Christian. I respect the right of all people to practice their religions and/or beliefs. What I am anti about, is those who are willfully ill-informed and priviledge themselves above others as being the sole 'arbiters' of their belief; all the while condemning those who don't believe as they do. Those who decide where people will "end' up. How arrogant and vicious.

    Read the following ...

    Bishop John S. Spong:
    http://www.dioceseofnewark.org/vox21096.html

    “The Supernatural Being that we have traditionally called God has increasingly been rendered impotent by the explosion in human knowledge over the last five hundred years...

    In this world of scholarly dialogue God has not been spoken of as an external Supernatural Being who periodically invades the world in decades.”

    “... the most pressing theological issue of this generation ...to envision God in some way other than in the theistic categories of the traditional religious past ...

    “Jesus was identified in some sense as the incarnation of this theistic God... was portrayed as a sacrifice offered to this God to bring an end to human estrangement from the Creator. ...

    In a post-Darwinian world, where creation is not finished, but is even now ongoing and ever-expanding, the idea of a fall from a perfect world into sin and estrangement is nonsensical. ... The idea that somehow the very nature of the heavenly God required the death of Jesus as a ransom to be paid for our sins is ludicrous ...”

    Again, I apologise to others for going off topic.
    aquatrek
    4th Apr 2013
    7:17pm
    na Twila - no need to apologize - about time someone else challenged this very disruptive evangelical nutter.
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    7:21pm
    Bless little aquatrek sitting there gnawing on his bananas.
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    7:17pm
    Oh my gosh you quote Spong!!!! Enough said.:0) I have told you, you want an intelligent informed debate - put the topic up on its own and meet me there. Don't quote Spong at me.

    I very much doubt you have the intenstinal fortitude to take up my challenge. I will not hold my breath. The fact you try to engage me again on this site away from topic gives me the measure of your "knowledge."

    If you wish to believe as Aquatrek does e.g. you prefer to see yourself as an elevated ape and have ancestors who climbed out of slime, be my guest. If that is how little you think of yourself then that is your choice. It is not for me thanks be to my Lord and Creator. I wonder do you go to doctors or to vets?????
    aquatrek
    4th Apr 2013
    7:34pm
    where do aliens like you go ? a question that you have never ever answered and apparently cannot answer due to lack of anything human !!
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    7:35pm
    aquatrek Bless you, you little ape you
    aquatrek
    4th Apr 2013
    8:36pm
    I am only saying this because I am very bored after 12 hours of almost non-stop academic research and I need some light relief - ALIEN MEK [aka Taskid]: you are a slimy green amoeba masquerading as a white horse. Its quite obvious when one uses a magnifying glass to look closer at the horses eyes and nostrils. Probably visualizes outa its nostrils and breathes through its eyes. Sigourney Weaver [Aliens x 3 fame] would be very proud of your pathetic acting skills if only you were really human.
    Pass the Ductape
    5th Apr 2013
    7:47am
    You may as well give up on this poster (Taskid) - aquatrek. Haven’t you noticed they always attempt to hijack any debate using religious fervour to twist the original content.
    Taskid
    5th Apr 2013
    7:59am
    Ductape If you did some research instead of sending of cheap shots you would realise that Aquatrek is the one who came in with his atheist religion three days back in reply to Maggierose and my reply to her. If anyone is pushing "religion" it is Aquatrek.
    I have merely attempted to bring some truth to counteract his anti-Christian rant.
    aquatrek
    5th Apr 2013
    8:04am
    You are entirely correct Ductape. ALIEN MEK and I have been sparing since the day that we met. On that day it hijacked a topic, and has done it often since. Others have also engaged with the alien. It has threatened me often but seems to just have an onboard scratched or broken disc as the same sounds keep coming out over and over and over again. Hopefully its power supply will give up eventually or its own kind will come and get it and take it away for repairs. I did notice that it was feeling lonely for its own kind and attempted to start a topic all for itself. It has personally invited Twila to it but Twila would find the broken disc boring after awhile as well. Ta for the support. Its happy happy Fri again so fare thee well.
    Taskid
    5th Apr 2013
    8:16am
    Bless you little aquatrek. Have a great day.
    Pass the Ductape
    5th Apr 2013
    9:15am
    aquatrek's reply was in response Maggierose’s comment- you're right Taskid. A low key creditable and proven alternate view to her own. But as soon as the word God was mentioned, the alarm bells rang and you couldn’t help yourself. Your subsequent posts speak for themselves and as mentioned before on Life Choices, once you become involved, rational debate on any topic is twisted into a religious stoush. Cheap shot or not - if the shoe fits - wear it. From my point of view, you tire me with your blinkered, religious view about everything. I have no intention of contributing further to your one-eyed approach involving the natural order of things.
    Taskid
    4th Apr 2013
    8:42pm
    aquatrek You appear to be a non-event waiting to happen. :0)
    Cameron
    5th Apr 2013
    12:32pm
    Why don't you guys and gals....you know who I mean...all get together and form a Government! At least we'd have something remotely funny to amuse the country with :) and who knows...a bit of humour can defuse any hostile situation!
    scorch
    7th Apr 2013
    3:58pm
    I agree katestephenson. But what about all meeting together (at a place to be agreed of course) if that could ever be agreed, for three rounds of jelly wrestling. The winner made Prime Minister elect?
    Alexia_x
    9th Apr 2013
    1:16pm
    You people are loosing sight of the primordial question by starting silly discussions on each others beliefs and characters, let it be and face the reality of the situation.
    We, as a nation have nothing to do with the politics of North Korea and its leaders and so we should not get involved in a stupid war that seems to be only for show by some delusional, ugly little man trying to show the world how great he is.
    Australia has been involved into too many wars that had little to do with our country and was only there to help others that liked the idea of sacrificing other nations for their own benefit and purposes.
    I say, lets stay out of this one and let the powers that want a war, for their own purposes, to fight and get their people killed or maimed, but not our people, please! not our people.
    Taskid
    9th Apr 2013
    1:23pm
    Alexia_x I take your point however if this foolish little man did instigate a nuclear war, which is what he is threating, then 70% of the planet will be affected. The war will come to us whether we wish to be involved or not.
    Alexia_x
    9th Apr 2013
    1:30pm
    You are right Taskid, but if that was the case our intervening in that war would be of no consequence either way.
    Taskid
    9th Apr 2013
    1:44pm
    No sadly there would be nothing we could do.

    9th Apr 2013
    2:28pm
    If Kim Jong - un wants to be remembered as the very last leader of an uninhabitable region formerly known as North Korea, then he's going the right way about it.
    wally
    9th Apr 2013
    7:29pm
    Kim Jong-Un is living proof of what you get in a repressive . dictatorial society. He has inherited his position in a manner that the ancient Egyptians would recognize and understand. Interestingly enough, the ancient Pharaohs appear to have been more attuned with the needs of their people than Kim Jong-Un and his predecessors in North Korea. The power in that country is concentrated in one person. (Think Caligula, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot) with unrestrained power of life and death over his subjects. Giving this person weapons of mass destruction and allowing him to make a nuisance of himself on the international stage is tantamount to giving a psychotic eleven year old boy the keys to your liquor cabinet and your car. Hopefully, his Chinese neighbours will (seeing what they stand to lose if the situation in Korea gets out of hand) will pull him into line. Tyrants and despots are usually judged by wow rationally and wisely they use their absolute power. Unfortunately, North Korea has not had any such leadership in the last 60 years.
    aquatrek
    9th Apr 2013
    7:46pm
    ta - well put wally
    Beemee
    10th Apr 2013
    10:52am
    Has that clown thought about this long and hard? I think not.
    Fire off nuclear towards the USA and if the US didn't respond which is unlikely, where does the nuclear fall out go???? Remember Chernobyl? Everything on the west got it, Europe and the UK. So not only will he hit the US, it will come back to bite him in the ass when the prevailing winds that circle the earth return to North Korea. Also other countries as well but its nice to know he will cop it in the end, even will everyone else.

    Am I afraid? No! If it hits me direct I will know nothing of it, poof I am vaporised. Those that remain will be affected by the fallout and that is a different thing altogether.

    I think if he does try something, it is going to be a real mistake. Do you think neighbouring countries will stand by and do nothing. Russia has said back off, China has too but not as strongly, USA has, and no doubt others too. Do you not think that all those combined would sit back and take it in the neck? No, I reckon they will band together and we will have a new country instead of North Korea, and it will be called The Northern Lake of Korea.

    10th Apr 2013
    11:06am
    Sooner it's over the better, then the world can get back to what is calls normality, and there'll be plenty of cheap land for sale in Nth Korea, but building permission will take a 1000 years or so
    Beemee
    10th Apr 2013
    11:38am
    Brilliant mate, loved your post. Still laughing over planning permission.
    Can see it now....Real Estate ad...Property for sale with undulating hills (from all the bombs and great holes everywhere).
    Pass the Ductape
    12th Apr 2013
    7:42am
    And plenty of opportunity to put in a pool eh Beemee?

    10th Apr 2013
    1:05pm
    IF I was in Real Estate I'd say this....

    I'm in Reality and thinking of listing cheap building blocks for sale in a new uninhabited region of the Earth, formerly called North Korea...there will soon be advantage for those seeking large tracks of land also. Companies can plan for future expansion, building permission of course will be in the time range of 1000 years, however that can be an advantage to forward thinking executives, and those in the futures markets.

    Analysis so far predicts a sudden and bright boom, followed by a period of quiet contemplation, then a foward move into a region fully cleared of any past buildings. Over the 1000 year wait for building permission, purchasers both private, and Govt can proceed with their planning models. Investments will be protected and interest paid over the 1000 year waiting period with annual dividend to shareholders. Those planning private housing have the advantage of a perpetual legacy handed down through the generations until the time of occupying the land.
    Beemee
    10th Apr 2013
    1:26pm
    Ya shoulda been in politics, that sounds about right and what the populous would be fed.

    10th Apr 2013
    1:51pm
    I could never qualify to be in politics, not a criminal


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