Government plans to cut income support dubbed ‘cruel’

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The government has introduced legislation to cut income support payments for Newstart, Sickness Allowance and pensions to the tune of almost $300 million over the next four years.

The Payment Integrity Bill will cut income support payments to pensioners and some people accessing Newstart, Austudy, Youth Allowance, and Sickness Allowance. The three measures in the Bill would extend the residency requirements to access the Age and Disability Support pensions; cut the GST Supplement paid to pensioners who leave Australia for six weeks or more and would double the Liquid Assets Waiting Period from 13 to 26 weeks.

The measures are expected to slash $291.5 million from income support over the forward estimates period.

“People receiving income support are already trapped in a spiral of poverty, and this bill will further entrench disadvantage, making it harder for those doing it tough to get ahead,” said ACOSS chief Dr Cassandra Goldie, who has called on the government to stop further income support payment cuts to people who are already doing it tough.

“More cuts to income support payments is also the last thing the country needs. These are payments that go into the hands of people who will spend every cent in the real economy. This bill would take a further $291 million out of the economy, just when everyone from the RBA to ACOSS is calling for more to be done on fiscal policy.

“The bill will double the Liquid Assets Waiting Period for people accessing allowances, which would see some wait for six months to get Newstart, Sickness Allowance and Youth Allowance if they have a certain level of cash assets. We know that having some savings in the bank greatly benefits people on allowances because these payments do not cover the cost of essentials. This bill will only make it tougher for more people who are looking for paid work or fall ill.”

According to ACOSS, the measure will deny people aged 65 and over, and people with a disability in serious financial hardship, access to a pension. It will be mostly older people who are affected, who have very limited opportunity to get sufficient paid work.

“It would also increase waiting periods for migrants claiming an Age or Disability Support Pension, forcing people aged 65 and over to wait up to 15 years to access a pension.”

Dr Goldie is concerned the cuts will increase poverty among older people in Australia.

“The bill cuts the GST Supplement for pensioners who spend six weeks or more outside of Australia, disadvantaging older people who travel overseas to visit family,” she said.

“We call on the Australian Government to stop cutting income support and instead increase Newstart, Youth Allowance and related payments by at least $75pw to help people get through tough times.”

Were you aware of such cuts? Do you think Newstart should be increased? Should the government look at increasing the Age Pension base rate?

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Written by Leon Della Bosca

Leon Della Bosca is a voracious reader who loves words. You'll often find him spending time in galleries, writing, designing, painting, drawing, or photographing and documenting street art. He has a publishing and graphic design background and loves movies and music, but then, who doesn’t?

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272 Comments

Total Comments: 272
  1. 0
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    How about doing a report on how much we taxpayers (of all sorts of taxes) slash politician incomes by 50%? When a government’s starts slashing welfare to pay for the perks both the government and their rich buddies get for things we have a sick and weak government. We already knew that though didn’t we.

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      Hardly a few cents in that for all those on welfare.

    • 0
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      Agree Ted.
      Of course this is just the latest in a concerted campaign to destitute retirees of all sorts. There’s a track record and don’t expect it to end there. The family home is still in play and its only a matter of time before the dictatorship in government puts it into the assets test. That’ll kick a lot of Australians off the pension.

      Those who voted LNP to save their few dollars in franking credits should be proud of themselves. We’ll all suffer as a result.

    • 0
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      Those affected by Labor’s unfair franking credit policy are not on the pension as those on the pension were exempt. So if Labor keeps that unfair franking credit policy it will help the LNP win the next election too.

    • 0
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      You got that right, Mick – though the reality is that for anyone on a genuinely small income, no franking credits would have been lost anyway as long as tax rules were followed… it is the tax rules that allow some to hide income and not pay tax on it that are the problem, – and that applies to the ‘big boys, and not the small shareholder. Like a small business, it is far easier for the ATO to monitor the small fry than it is for them to dig through the reams of paperwork involved in a corporate style money-shifter.

    • 0
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      MPs and senators elected before the 2004 Federal Election (and in continuous service since) are all enrolled in the generous defined benefit scheme called the Parliamentary Contributory Superannuation Scheme. (PCSS).

      In 2018 the cost to the tax payer was $912,000,000 that’s right almost a billion dollars.

      These figures are from independent researcher, journalist and Independent journalist, blogger and Walkley Award finalist in 2017.

      Those on the PCSS should lead the way and take a pension cut a long time before us plebs.

      https://williamsummers.blog/2019/03/15/the-truth-about-parliamentary-pensions/

    • 0
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      That’s less than 20C in the $1 for every person welfare. Peanuts.

    • 0
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      Where is your compassion VCB, your comments have just cemented my opinion of you but good manners prevent me from telling you what that is.

    • 0
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      Misty the people affected by these changes are not poor so it is my good manners that point this out to you and others,

    • 0
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      VCBB, you’re delusional. The franking credits policy is unfair; what Labor proposed would make it fair. But we all know you care only about yourself – a typical greedy LNP voter.

    • 0
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      Wrong the current franking credit policy is fair/ Labor’s policy is unfair to those retirees and those under retirement age who rely on that extra income to make ends meet. The wealthy will still pay no tax by using their franking credits under Labor. They can earn over $100,000 and pay no tax as their franking credits pay it for them. However a self funded retiree with $20,000 will lose the $5000 they need to make ends meet. How is that fair?

      Personally I am not affected by labor’s policy as I am on the pension.

    • 0
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      VeryCaringBigBear.
      Good to see someone who can see straight and not be blinded by prejudice.
      Some of the posts reek of it.
      Cheers.

    • 0
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      Mad as Hell- $912,000,000 PCSS in 2018 represents:-

      – an annual old age pension of about 38,000 pensioners or ,

      -$456 annually more that could have gone to each of 2,000,000 old age pensioners in Australia or,

      -$54.21 per fortnight more that could have gone to each of the 647,000 on Newstart or,

      -$50 per fortnight more that could have gone to each of 700,000 on Disability Support Pension.

      Poverty in Australia 2018 found that there are just over 3 million people (13.2%) living below the poverty line of 50% of median income – including 739,000 children (17.3%). In dollar figures, this poverty line works out to $433 a week for a single adult living alone; or $909 a week for a couple with 2 children.

    • 0
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      VCBBear, you’re forgetting about including all the pollies’ perks in the future, as well as their actual cash pension payouts. What about all that free air travel for the rest of their lives? What about all that extra income generated by investing their payouts, ON TOP OF ANY OTHER JOB/INCOME they may receive after they’ve retired from politics? Put THAT into the $$$ millions over the forward estimates period!

      It’s all about the Surplus, so the Govt will have one miserly thing to brag about before the next election. They don’t care that they’re breaking the kneecaps of poorer people because they know those people won’t vote for them anyway – they’ve done the numbers. They know all they have to do is frighten a few people in select electorates to ensure they get over the line come 2022. A bit of lying about Labor’s Death Duties on Twitter by Josh Frydenberg did the trick in May.

    • 0
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      With so much debtbaccumulated for Labor’s expensive policies we need an awful lot of surpluses to oay it back. I’d like to see evenbigger surpluses going forward.

    • 0
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      I’m sure you do, along with the LNP govt squeezing all the poorest people to get your bloody Surplus.

      I wonder when the govt is going to pay their own debt (yes – they’ve tripled Labor’s debt now). Will they pay for Labor’s debt first or their own?

  2. 0
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    I’m not all that comfortable with providing welfare/pensions to people who have never contributed to this country in the first place, but we cannot have people living at or below the poverty line. Let’s remove some of the polly’s perks first.

    • 0
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      Very little money is doing that.

    • 0
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      A pollie’s penny saved is a penny earned! And the eating is sweet as well…. like sleeping with a lady copper or lawyer – get some of your own back…

    • 0
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      Politicians’ remuneration is a drop in the bucket. The real game is the wealthy who have the means to avoid tax altogether. Have a look at how many multinationals and wealthy Australians pay close to ZERO tax on huge profits/incomes. The Guardian printed a list in the last year and it was offensive. And then they poor wealthy had to have a (significant) tax cut because they apparently were doing it tough??????
      Think of it this way, the tax cuts are around 160 Billion dollars with most of it going to high income earners. Plenty of money in our economy but we have a government engaged in a blatant class war. Take from the poor and strugglers and give to the top end of town.

    • 0
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      Even St Pauline of The Right commented on one corporation that paid 1.6% of its turnover as tax…..

    • 0
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      Some pay a lot less than that on tens of billions of profit.
      One has to wonder WHY the government refuses to address the apparent well known loopholes which let corporations defraud our country continue. Sounds like the pollies are a part of the fraud.

    • 0
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      Mick, the multinationals and wealthy Australians paying close to ZERO tax do so because their taxable incomes are close to ZERO. In other words they do not have huge profits/incomes, thanks to legal tax minimisation strategies. If you want them to pay more tax then push for changing the law to eliminate transfer pricing, profit shifting, offshoring income and other dodgy avoidance practices and penalise the advisors and bankers that facilitate them.

    • 0
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      So true, MICK.
      I think the only way to get at the big thieves is to scrap refunds on franking credits altogether, whether you’ve paid tax or not. Why should people who earn income from shares be treated with favour over those who work for their income? Why isn’t dividend income treated like any other income?

      I’ll imagine I’m employed by a company. Should I be able to turn around to the ATO & say to them “Hey, the company I work for paid me with money they’d already paid tax on, so why can’t I use the tax they paid as a personal tax deduction?”

      Howard originally introduced the f.c. refund scheme to encourage Australians to invest in Australian companies. Why not charge Australian companies a considerably lower tax rate than what the ATO would charge overseas companies? That would eliminate all the shenanigans you mention above Farside (like legal tax minimisation strategies, transfer pricing, profit shifting to shelf companies, offshoring income and other dodgy avoidance practices). This would make Australian companies more profitable and attractive to invest in but it would also discourage overseas investors from shifting profits outside of Australia.

      It might even free up the ATO to chase the big cheaters, instead of spending hundreds of hours in negotiation with large companies deciding how much tax they should or will pay, as is the case now.

    • 0
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      Hoohoo, I think you misunderstand how companies payments of employees works. The company employes you in their business to produce,/manufacture goods or services, sell their product, work in administration or be a manager. They pay you and take tax from your wages and sends that tax to the ATO. When the company accounts have been closed for the financial year, if they have made a profit, they will be required to pay tax at the current company tax rate.

      If you own shares in that company and they make a profit and declare a dividend, they will send each shareholder the declared dividend ($). That dividend has already had company tax taken from it, consequently you can claim the tax paid from the dividendate against your taxable income. The company manufacturing/sales process is not taxed until the goods/services have been sold and as you are in the manufacturing/sales process you are not paid by company funds that have been taxed in that particular tax year.

      Also remember that anyone who has a superannuation account that has shares as part of it’s portfolio is receiving franking credits that offset the tax of said account.

      I agree with you that the tax rules in this country are a joke and favor the rich at the expense of average workers. I have advocated with various MP’s about reviewing our income and tax system to no avail. It is all to hard for them as they are too busy lining their own pockets and the pockets of their rich mates.

    • 0
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      Company tax is company tax – shareholder tax is income tax… and never the twain shall meet..

    • 0
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      It’s true I don’t own shares or understand company law. I run a business in partnership with my spouse. But (assuming I’m employed by a company), that is MY tax the company withholds to send to the ATO, which I may or may not get back at the EFY. I’m talking about the money they actually pay me, which, as you’ve stated, has been made from their PREVIOUS year’s profits, from which they have already paid tax.

      I know I’m turning this concept/construct on its head – I don’t accept that money paid to someone should be treated differently, whether it is in the form of wages or otherwise, depending on what financial year the profit was made or the tax was paid, it is still income for the recipient.
      Has not all income had tax paid on it at some stage? Why treat income derived from shares so differently? Perhaps this is the starting point for financial inequality? Poor people don’t own shares.

    • 0
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      clancambo- stated “I’m not all that comfortable with providing welfare/pensions to people who have never contributed to this country in the first place, but we cannot have people living at or below the poverty line. Let’s remove some of the polly’s perks first”

      VeryCaringBigBear- stated “Very little money is doing that.”

      Here are some facts for both of you:-

      http://theconversation.com/factcheck-qanda-do-refugees-cost-australia-100m-a-year-in-welfare-with-an-unemployment-rate-of-97-54395

  3. 0
    0

    Makes a lot of good sense to me.

    • 0
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      Of course it does, because you’re heartless and greedy – typical LNP-voting scum.

    • 0
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      Funny as I didn’t vote in the last election.

    • 0
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      So from where do you derive the right to an opinion here? Either you don’t live here or you fail your civic responsibility test…

    • 0
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      Bang on, TREBOR.
      VCBB says he’s on an OAP pension, doesn’t vote, thinks pensioners are greedy who have nothing to whinge about and yet he reads everything straight out of the LNP’s prayer book/manifesto.
      He’s either severely bipolar (or perhaps a psychopathic liar) or he’s a fictitious character. There are just too many contradictions for him to be a real person.

    • 0
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      I can’t seem to find one comment here where anyone would be personally disadvantaged by these changes. Most comments are off topic and about others issues.

    • 0
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      Then remove the cloth from your ears and the blinkers from your eyes (if you are a human being, that is).

      You’re not paying attention or are you running a tag team with another troll on the payroll? You need to give him your notes if you want him to keep up.

    • 0
      0

      Still can’t find anyone here affected by these changes blinkers or no blinkers.

  4. 0
    0

    This bill is disgraceful. A lot of Australians decide to move o/s for financial reasons ie. They can live a better quality. The Governments padt and present changed residency period before you qualift and I mainly agree with that. It stops ‘migrants’ coming here for a short period, claiming pension and then returning to their native countr – that is sensible.
    They already strip the pension of Australians to the basic rate after 6 weeks when they go o/s, but they want more.
    As Ted states lets cut all their appalling rorts – thet are parasites.

    • 0
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      You don’t pay GST overseas so that needs to be scrapped. Also if you have liquid assets then you have enough to tied you over so you can wait six months,

    • 0
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      VCB, most who lose their jobs don’t have much in liquid assets – some have as little as $100 in the bank. That’s not going to go far if they have to wait for 6 months for any benefits.

      Some don’t get a payout, especially if they’re on a casual contract where you can be given 1 day’s notice that they don’t want you any longer.

    • 0
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      If you have only $100 in the bank then you don’t have to wait as only those with liquid assets have to wait.

    • 0
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      Anyone who retains property etc in Australia pays GST… case closed.

      Cutting into liquid assets is a short-sighted gesture at ideology – since all that does is compel the unemp0loyed or whatever to start again at a lower level, and thus become more of a burden at retirement time.

      This is one of the basic underlying flaws in a ‘part-time, casual’ work environment for the many – too many peaks and troughs mean they will never accumulate a nest egg or assets for retirement – and all the while they are waiting for a feed, their accumulated super is being torn down by costs and fees…

      Stoopid is as stoopid does…

      We’re gonna need a bigger guillotine…

    • 0
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      There is no GST on rates.

    • 0
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      You do pay GST overseas. They mostly call it ‘tax’. The rate depends on where you are and yes some countries do not have GST.
      A lot of countries have property taxes payable every year. These are on top of rates and are meant to gain an income from non owner occupier owners. Its a casino.

    • 0
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      There is on your lecco bill etc… and on everything else you spend on your property…

    • 0
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      Mogo51
      Do those that retire overseas still get the Aussie Pension?
      Spending in another country not helping our economy although I guess we have migrants to do that. Come to think most us are migrants or children of migrants….

  5. 0
    0

    Increasing waiting time for immigrants – yes, but penalising those that have, by no fault of their own, been made redundant, the increase to 26 weeks wait until they can access payments is cruel.

    These people in their ‘ivory towers’ have no idea of what’s fair or unfair. They’re just number-crunchers with no contact with the ‘real’ world. I’d like it for these people to be put on a payment for 12 months, then they can go back to their towers and really understand what those of us living on pensions experience. Then they may have some empathy for us.

    • 0
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      Many people being made redundant are given a lot more than 26 weeks pay and rightly are then required to wait according to the number of weeks pay they received. Paying them welfare for these weeks is nothing but double paying them.

    • 0
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      VCB, some don’t have anywhere near that! If you’re on a casual contract, you don’t even need to be given 1 day’s notice!

    • 0
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      It doesn’t affect those without liquid assets.

    • 0
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      That payout isn’t supposed to keep them – it is supposed to be compensation for being thrown on the street, and to have an opportunity to start again…. being ripped straight down to zero is not helping in any ‘start again’…

      Get rid of companies and management and get some good ones for a change… ones that can actually run as a business… with a little sense.

      BTW – if the economy is doing so well – why are so many being made redundant etc? Why are so many companies failing and dropping off the grid?

    • 0
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      There is no waiting time for those without money.

    • 0
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      There should be no waiting time for any in the interests of sustaining viability for as many as possible, so that they can accumulate for retirement time.. it’s not as if $250 a week will destroy the economy… and having such civilised rules in place might force ‘government’ to wake up and start genuine job-policies…

    • 0
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      So someone who gets a $75 k redundancy payout gets immediate access to welfare nas does the person who gets no payout???

    • 0
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      So someone who gets a $75 k redundancy payout gets immediate access to welfare nas does the person who gets no payout???

    • 0
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      If you have a $75.000 redundancy payout you have to wait for the number of weeks that equated to before you get welfare now.

    • 0
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      How many people get a $75k payout?

    • 0
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      It’s not just the people in their ‘ivory towers’ that have no idea of what’s fair or unfair. There are plenty of others on the OAP that do not appreciate how much better they have it than someone on Newstart or similar.

    • 0
      0

      The economy is in tatters because of the LNP’s policy of austerity. They are so one-eyed about it they are still crying about the debt Labor incurred during the Global Financial Crisis that kept Australia out of Recession, unlike most other free democracies.

      My business has been eaten alive by cheap Chinese imports – my income is reduced to a quarter of what it was ten years ago. I’ve had to let workers go because I can’t keep my business open if I have no income. Ordinary people just don’t have spare money to spend. They’re saving it for when an emergency comes along, like an unexpected operation, a car repair or even just registration, a funeral, a roof repair after damage from a storm, bush fire damage, having to pay for water to drink because our creeks, dams, rivers & tanks have run dry. These things are happening to people all around me.

    • 0
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      Yes Hoohoo 7 years of this economic mismanagement and here we are bankrupt. It was always going to be this way. Australia makes billions of dollars for foreign investors but can’t afford to look after it’s own. It’s a real shame what Conservatives have done to this once prosperous country.

    • 0
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      So true, Rae.
      We might have to start calling Australia the “unlucky country” now the austerity Party have stamped their legacy across the board.
      It’s certainly been unlucky for Indigenous people – since about 1788.

  6. 0
    0

    This is unbelievable! It is already impossible to live on welfare and would only affect those who find themselves suddenly unemployed- often due to age, disability or illness and not those who bludge off the country.

    • 0
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      If they have little or no liquid assets then it is not a problem to them.

    • 0
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      Yes – they’re close to pension time so can become a total burden in receiving OAP… great work… thank you BB for pointing out the savage pitfalls of ‘greed is good’ that is driving part-time casual, and businesses terrorising the ATO with millions of pieces of paper to sift through, etc and sometimes going out feet first and the honchoes taking millions with them…

    • 0
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      VCBB, that’s the problem. People who have worked hard or risked their savings to start a business (as I did over 20 years ago) will be punished should we suddenly find ourselves without a job or income, while those who have always been on welfare will be spared the indignity of having to use up their hard-earned savings (after tax has been paid on it, too!) for half a year before we are entitled to welfare? This government is a thieving bastard!

      The only reason I have spare money now is because, for cash-flow purposes, my business needs a pool of money on hand to exist at all. I can’t afford to borrow it & besides, the bank wouldn’t lend it to me.

      And now my income is reduced to a quarter of what it was ten years ago because of LNP policy & their need to sign a crap free trade agreement with China. I wrote to Andrew Robb (the Trade Minister) at that time & he suggested I should be innovative & move my business to China. Next thing he retired (with a big fat pension & perks) & as a businessman, negotiated the lease of Darwin Harbour to the Chinese.

      They are selling Australia down the toilet & now have the hide to stick their hand out & squeeze poor people so they can have their bloody Surplus.

      They keep telling us to spend but then they take what little we have. They know how to make money for themselves but they have no idea how to stimulate demand at a national level. They are pathetic economic managers, despite their blubberings to the contrary. They are destroying our country & our economy.

    • 0
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      Bravo, Hoohoo!

  7. 0
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    I agree that lollies and especially high ranking public servant are the ones who should have pay cuts. Lead from the front and show some kind of understanding,

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      Why it is nothing to do with them.

    • 0
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      It should be….. we need to change the rules…

    • 0
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      How Good is VCBB toeing the party line at every opportunity. In the past VCBB has boasted about how well he/she is so they obviously have no idea how tough it is for those out there who are really struggling.
      Apart from that pulling that money out of the economy verges on moronic, apologies to morons, but I am afraid we are getting used to this sort of action from this government. They don’t do much but when they do they are acting some group or other from the “bottom end of town” while the “Top End” is sacrosanct.

    • 0
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      How Good is VCBB toeing the party line at every opportunity. In the past VCBB has boasted about how well he/she is so they obviously have no idea how tough it is for those out there who are really struggling.
      Apart from that pulling that money out of the economy verges on moronic, apologies to morons, but I am afraid we are getting used to this sort of action from this government. They don’t do much but when they do they are acting some group or other from the “bottom end of town” while the “Top End” is sacrosanct.

    • 0
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      The people affected by these policies will still spend the same amount of money in the economy but less on overseas holidays and cruises.

    • 0
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      Those people don’t spend money on overseas holidays and cruises… they could scarcely afford the passport..

    • 0
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      You are right, TREBOR. My passport expired decades ago.

    • 0
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      Stop reading out of the Liberal manifesto, VCBBear. It’s tosh!

      This government is all about dividing people instead of us standing up together against the government. Entities like VCBBear are tools to implement the division. He contradicts himself continually, just to argue the party line. I suggest we all ignore him. Hard to do I know, because he makes us so angry. This is why he’s here. Maybe this is why he’s so well off – he’s on the payroll?

    • 0
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      I don’t read that rubbish I observe what is happenning around me instead. I don’t see any poor people like their are in some other parts of the world. I do see a lot of people who fail to spend their welfare well so the sooner the welfare card is given to all those on welfare the better they all will be.

    • 0
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      So can’t you see poor people where you live, VCBB? You obviously live in a well-to-do area of Trollsville or Heartlessville. The main street of my town has homeless people sleeping under blankets in the shopfront entrances on winter nights. I know people who must choose between paying an electricity bill or the rent. Their kids go to school without having breakfast often.

      You’re living in bubble VCBB – an LNP bubble.

    • 0
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      Good people in this country are really suffering.

      Instead of the government helping them they just kick sand in their faces & ask for more from them, instead of from those who can afford to help.

  8. 0
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    Here’s a new flash to all those stupid pensioners who voted for the LNP to save their franking credits. Suck it up! If you paid more attention to the policies (or lack of) put forward by this crowd rather than listening to the lies they promoted about the ALP imposing a pensioners’ tax, then we wouldn’t be in the clutches of this rotten Government. Australians are shallow and stupid. We deserve this lot and I doubt much will change given the propensity of the aged to vote blue. Stupid, just plain stupid.

    • 0
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      Pensioners were exempt from Labor’s unfair franking credit policy. Let’ hope they keep that policy as it will lose them the next election too.

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      Thats why they lost my vote.

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      In reality all genuine taxpayers who did their returns correctly would still be entitled to a part of whole refund on franked credits.. that’s the way it is supposed to work… there was never any need for ‘exemptions’ – that was a sign of a Labor spokesperson desperate to get across a point he clearly did not understand.

      Obey the tax rules and don’t cheat and you have no problems with franked credits – but because there is so much manipulation going on – I say abolish franked credits entirely and do your own taxes without the company paying some in advance for you.

      The real issue that Shorten seemed unable to get across is the opportunity to manipulate – not franking credits simple…. and only those with a heap can afford to pay for manipulation of income.

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      Franking credits has nothing at all to do with manipulating of income. If you have franking credits you have paid tax and deserve a refund like everyone else who has over paid their tax.

    • 0
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      Franking credits PER SE have nothing to do with income manipulation – income manipulation OF franking credits in amongst other things IS.

      Keep up in class….

      At the end of the day, abolishing franking credits would make zero difference to tax liability of anyone who does not have the complicated manipulation available.. ergo – no small shareholder would miss one cent if franked credits were abolished.

      As I’ve said countless times – it is the current opportunities and availability of income-shifting measures available to companies, corporations and the very rich which are the real issues with taxation – but removing franked credits from the board would be on less thing the ATO has to look at in determining whether or not a return is done properly.

      Nobody should object to the ATO being freed from the added burden of having to calculate income including franked credits, when it could all be more simply done with a simple return of all income in one place – and that would free the ATO to go after more of the real rorters and manipulators.

      Don’t tell me it doesn’t happen – my kid’s mother had an accountant, he was caught by the ATO doing fiddles…. where there enough issues involved in a return, the ATO simply cannot handle it, so they surrender to the big boys and their thick books of paperwork and rely on their integrity…**falls about laughing** …

      It’s another form of ‘self-regulation’ – trusting corporations and big companies and corporate magnates to0 do the right thing… by giving their word …. worked well with the retired race horse industry….. and the banks… and the super funds …

      Need I go on?

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      “If you have franking credits you have paid tax and deserve a refund like everyone else who has over paid their tax. “

      Precisely what I said, BB – with the proviso that you MUST include franked credits in gross income for calculation, and the issuers underlying the entire process are opportunities for some to hid ie income and thus derive zero taxable income and thus receive a freebie by way of return on top of already large sums untaxed.

      Says again – it is the tax SYSTEM that is in need of overhaul, specifical in this case, so as to cut out opportunities for shifting income around and making it disappear.

      Small investors do not have those opportunities… and are subject to closer scrutiny by the ATO than are big corporations with their thick volumes of paperwork…

      Ergo – small investors are generally honest and receive their reward justly…

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      Agree it is the tax system that is the problem not franking credits. If anything not refunding franking credits will hurt the economy as retirees will have less to spend and invest their money off shore instead of in Australian companies.

      The big problem is the no tax on super for those over 60 as it only helps the wealthy pay less tax as the majority have trouble using their 15% rebate. In fact many over 60 would be better off being taxed on their super as they would have tax credits available to offset the tax on their other income as well.

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      What other income are you talking about VCBB?, most retired people only have one income stream.

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      I have more than one income stream myself but the wealthy have lots of income streams that are isolated so little or no tax is paid on them.

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      nerk: so you sold out the nation for your handful of silver franking credits? Have you been looking agt what the government you helped elect has been doing to 6 years? Do you not understand that we are witnessing the ushering in of our first totalitarian government headed by a dictator in the making?

      To all those who sold out the country I’ll tell you I voted Labor even though one idiot by the name of Bowen had sold us and many self funded retirees out. It would have cost us but the future of the nation is worth far more than a measly few thousand dollars. Some Australians offend me with their greed and lack of both a spine and morals. Sorry if that offends but I did not sell out the country. Neither should have you.

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      It’s called Democracy.

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      VCBB remember the defined benefit income stream retirees pay tax on their untaxed employer contribution. Perhaps the same needs to be done for everyone. The non concessional income stream has already been fully taxed so comes out tax free but the concessional is taxed minus the 15% already paid. That would bring accumulation taxes into line with defined benefit taxes on income streams.

      Only very high income streams would be affected but it would solve the problem of the really wealthy paying no tax even after considerable tax rebates.

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      It’s not democracy any more, The Care Bear.

      Sure, people are free to vote but our media has become a conduit for liars & deceivers, so the information we receive is tainted and often designed to frighten people to vote this way or that. Some OAP pensioners voted for the Libs because they thought Labor’s franking credits policy was ripping them off, not realising it wouldn’t even affect them if they didn’t own shares.
      And Frydenberg lied on Twitter saying that Labor, Unions & the Greens were going to introduce Death Duties. “Tell everyone you know”, he lied. That frightened heaps of people into voting for the government.

      I’ve said this before: Trump spends US$1 million every week on Facebook. Why? It works. People ARE stupid.

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    What happens to these people brought to Australia under the Medevac scheme .Do they get full pension plus all benefits straight away ? If so unfair to all Australians worked all there life and have to wait ?

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      Yes as they have no liquid assets.

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      They need to eat etc – they get fed in hospitals etc.. and once fit again, go ‘home’ to der Konzentrationslageren …. being still in detention, they don’t get to roam the streets and get a flat etc…

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      No. They don’t get any of the support you seem to believe they do.
      And most of the money spent keeping them in Nauru or Manus goes to the companies contracted to provide the inadequate services provided to them!

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      A UNHRC camp in Australia would have been a lot cheaper to run. We are paying foreign contractors far too much. Then the refugees could have been put on the waiting lists for health treatments the same as citizens are. Biggest problem would be finding a site for a camp where there is water not being mined by foreign privateers.

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    Social Security – it’s social Security … now let me read this vernacular…

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      Social security is just a fancy name for welfare.

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      On a wider note its the distribution of wealth amongst all citizens. Nobody should take the insults about wealth belongs 100% to those who create it because that is plain WRONG. Wealthy people do not exist in the absence of the poor and need them to thrive. The real talking point is what is fair for both ends of the spectrum. The rich wanting to pay no tax is not fair but that’s the game being played around the planet. hat’s why there are millions of wealthy citizens in offshore tax have all over the place. Its the avoidance of paying their dues to society.

      Called it welfare or social security. It matters and attempts to demean what has to happen are not appreciated. EVERYBODY on the planet deserves to live a reasonable life. Tell me I’m dreamin………….

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      In reality all those who lift a hand in work are ‘creating wealth’ – that is the simple reality of it – and those who actually life a hand are entitled to a fair share of the profits… even the older style Liberals knew that and accepted it totally.

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      VCBB goes berzerk if you use the word “social” because the next thing you say might be “social justice”.

      For VCBB, he thinks both terms mean communism. He just said “Social security is just a fancy name for welfare.” with the implied derogatory meanings that go with welfare (unemployed bludgers, passengers with their hands out for his taxes, single parents, etc.), you know, riffraff burdens on society.

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