Friday Flash Poll: Are older people a burden on society?

Do you feel as if society views you as a burden?

Friday Flash Poll: Are older people a burden on society?

Last week we received correspondence from Diane Keogh PhD, who is concerned about how older people are treated in society and portrayed in the media.

Ms Keogh wrote:

“Can you please give consideration to writing a story on why retirees are not a burden to society but simply older people who have significantly contributed to society and as such need to be respected for that, not considered a burden.

“I think this message that retirees are a burden and how are we going to pay for them is a very negative attitude and this is then reflected by the young in the way they consider retirees are a burden and complain that they will have to pay for this. We as retirees have already paid!”

As YourLifeChoices has continually reported, Australia is one of the meanest nations when it comes to supporting older people. According to the HelpAge International Global AgeWatch Index which ranks OECD spending on pensions as a percentage of GDP, “Australia has the lowest ranking (61) in its region for the income security domain, and the highest old age poverty rate in the region (35.5 per cent). It also has below average pension income coverage (83 per cent) and relative welfare rates (65 per cent) compared to other countries in this region.”

Australia spends an average of 3.5 per cent of its GDP on age-related spending against an OECD average of 7.8 per cent.

“I am not quite retired, but I am getting very tired of this group being painted this way. We have worked hard all our lives since early ages (some as early as 16) and retirement is not a burden for the community, it is our right,” writes Ms Keogh.

“I think we need to change the message on our group to one of respect and consideration, not what it is now!”

Ms Keogh makes some valid points. Many view retirees as entitled endless cash cows and age pensioners as an economic burden. Younger people especially seem to think that older people have coasted their way through life and are now living off the public purse.

“It is more about the fact that the message/question in the community that is so often posed/ portrayed in the media is how is Australia going to afford to pay for all these seniors who are going to be a financial burden on our society?” writes Ms Keogh.

“We have contributed all our lives and we should not be portrayed as ‘a burden on society’ just because there are a large number of seniors, a large proportion of whom will be self-funded anyhow.”

The notion that pensioners are suckling the taxpayers’ teat is not a new one. The Age Pension is seen by some as a handout, but in truth, it is a ‘reward for service’ – as stated when the legislation was passed by Parliament in 1908.

Some also view older people as past their use-by date and no longer able to meaningfully contribute to society.

This attitude is not only disrespectful, it is wrong. Besides, it’s just not about what older people are doing for society, but what they have already done.

YourLifeChoices member Old Man succinctly frames this attitude in the form of a funny ‘parable’.

“A very self-important uni student took it upon himself to explain to a senior citizen sitting next to him why it was impossible for the older generation to understand his generation.”

“‘You grew up in a different world, actually almost a primitive one’, he said in a voice loud enough for many nearby to hear. ‘We, the young people of today, grew up with television, jet planes, space travel, men walking on the moon, our spaceships have visited Mars, we have nuclear energy, electric and hydrogen cars, computers with light-speed processing, and …’ he paused to take another swig of beer … Which the senior citizen took advantage of to say, ‘You know, son, you're right. We didn’t have those things when we were young … so we invented them. Now, you arrogant little fart, what are you doing for the next generation?’”

In her paper The ageing of the Australian population: triumph or disaster, Dr Katharine Betts, from the Swinburne University of Technology, analysed Australia’s ageing population growth and the presumed dependence on taxpaying workers to fund the pension. She found that even with no further growth in labour force participation rates, the dependency ratio is expected to decline from a current 53.6 per cent to about 44-46 per cent by 2061.

Even though the implications of older people being an economic burden are unfounded, the effect of such assumptions cuts deeply.

“It is about the community showing more respect for pensioners, not thinking of them as a burden on society and we cannot afford them, grumbling about them. It is degrading and disrespectful,” writes Ms Keogh.

“Other countries have more respect for older people, and if we are not given it in this country, we need to demand it!”

Today, we are seeking your attitudes about the perception of older Australians. Do you feel disrespected? Are you tired of being treated like a burden? Or are you happy with your lot?

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And, of course, we welcome your opinion in the comments section below.





    COMMENTS

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    gerry
    10th May 2019
    11:11am
    US pensioners are in strife as they didn't save for the future, Ozzies would be in strife if it weren't for coal and iron ore exports which Labour want to stop re Adani
    Farside
    10th May 2019
    11:31am
    Adani's coal and iron ore exports? Do tell.
    Pentop
    10th May 2019
    3:14pm
    Labor does not want to stop iron ore exports!!! Also coal will stop itself. The countries are going to use less and less and all we will have are mammoth holes in the ground and kilometers of unused railway line in the future. As far as Adani.... the Great Barrier Reef is not only one of the world's greatest treasures which is ours to hold dear but also it is a massive revenue raiser through Tourism. Now all we will need is one of the many rules regarding the environment broken and it will all be destroyed .... FOREVER. Coal will be come and will definitely go but the Barrier Reef is here for one time in our lives.
    inextratime
    10th May 2019
    4:39pm
    Hi Pentop not sure your correct on the coal export scene. India and China are building more and more coal fired power stations and where do you think much of their coal comes from ?

    As for iron ore check out China and Japan, no sign of their steel production lines reducing.
    inextratime
    10th May 2019
    4:39pm
    Hi Pentop not sure your correct on the coal export scene. India and China are building more and more coal fired power stations and where do you think much of their coal comes from ?

    As for iron ore check out China and Japan, no sign of their steel production lines reducing.
    TREBOR
    10th May 2019
    8:09pm
    Introduction to Banana Republicanism 101 - tutor Gerry....

    (rolls eyes)....
    TREBOR
    10th May 2019
    8:16pm
    P.S. I'm happy to stop foreign ownership of asset extraction for their benefit, and not that of the nation. Those parasites rarely, if ever, pay any taxes, them employ as few Australians as possible, and the reality is that only their Australian employees actually pay tax.

    Some countries, which are considered 'inferior', such as Vietnam, mandate a 50% local owner in every business.... and for very good reason - they were used as a milch cow for generations, meaning they know the bloody difference between working gainfully for self and nation and being exploited.

    Australia needs to wake up... as I've asked many times before - are Australians so stupid that they cannot even put together a resource extraction process themselves, and must somehow rely on Indians and other foreigners?

    As for Chinese 'investors' - they should be automatically excluded for the simple reason that their government gives them very low or interest free loans to buy into the farangi nations and industries - and thus that government seeks to gain control in the long term. Imperialism by a new name... and the clowns in Canberra all line up to sign up for it.

    As with terrorism and mass killings - the greatest enemy is the State itself...

    Time we, as a people, overthrew outrGovernment of Two Parties and set up one for our own benefit and hot theirs and their chosen mates.
    TREBOR
    10th May 2019
    8:17pm
    That sound radical enough for you? Many call me a 'conservative' - what a joke...
    Farside
    10th May 2019
    10:03pm
    Trebor asks "are Australians so stupid that they cannot even put together a resource extraction process themselves, and must somehow rely on Indians and other foreigners?'

    Yes. See how they were duped by the campaign against the proposed MRRT and have been largely dudded by state royalties.
    GeorgeM
    10th May 2019
    10:56pm
    Trebor, you comments are all good - we just need a sensible political party to take these up and actually work for the people. Even the Middle East countries have smartly managed their oil wealth, by employing foreigners (even at top levels) as servants, held on to their assets thus holding on to their wealth, and run the Govts without even taxing the people.
    gerry
    10th May 2019
    11:11am
    US pensioners are in strife as they didn't save for the future, Ozzies would be in strife if it weren't for coal and iron ore exports which Labour want to stop re Adani
    Dave R
    10th May 2019
    11:22am
    Older people who are in good health and able to look after themselves are rarely seen as a burden in my experience, while those who are feeble and less able to take care of themselves are sometimes regarded as a burden.
    I don't think an older persons financial situation has much influence on how they are perceived.
    Snagglepuss
    10th May 2019
    11:22am
    I Started work at the age of 14, no superannuation, no first home grant, our first house we paid 20% interest, the new generations have everything handed to them and still can't survive, won't go without, we started with second hand furniture to get started, our house was only 11 squares, but we survived with a small house. the new generation, new house, new everything in it , new car and Foxtel, I am not saying all, you have multiple generations on the dole, are they not a burden, we have paid our taxes all of our lives to be able retire and enjoy our life, which, for some was a hard life for little money, now, a lot of the newer generations sit on their bums and earn big money, don't know how to save, can't cook, so send out, or go out for their meals. we the baby generation have paid for the preveledge to be a pension and not have to live from pension day to pension day. start to work on the people who have never worked, expect everything, cheap housing, and have the attitude that you owe me. Single mums, back to work as soon as possible and earn for your children instead of having one after the other, get more money than the guy on minimum wage, yet they still complain. the government needs to look at the real people who are a burden, I don't think that I am, have paid my way
    Pentop
    10th May 2019
    3:24pm
    While I am in much the same situation as yourself the reality is times have changed. Our young people do not have the luxury of definite ongoing employment. For the most part it is casual and intermittent... so their chance of ever getting a loan is zilch!!! Add to that is the cost of housing (which for the most part, we have enjoyed the benefits for) is not available to most of them. Perhaps a better way to look at this is that you have enjoyed the fruits of a better life... one that will not be available to most of them.

    I never considered myself entitled to a pension and saved and did without all of my working life to ensure that I have a better life now. Saving and budgeting is not something that I find most baby boomers know anything about hence their children following in their footsteps. These are generally the same baby boomers now complaining about being on the basic pension.

    As far single women well that argument goes on and on.... why shouldn't they earn as much as a guy on the minimum wage after all they are supporting the next generation. Anyway why he on a minimum wage??? Perhaps because he couldn't be bothered to educate himself!!! A lot of the "young guys" today do not want to commit to any relationships and are often the ones with the new cars that you talk about.

    None of this is simple. Times have changed ....
    Jim
    10th May 2019
    6:06pm
    Pentop, with respect I have to disagree with some of your comments, like many on this site I started work when I was 15 years of age, over the years I have worked up to 80 hours a week, which was made up of my full time job and working in the clubs and pubs at night, I bought my first house in 1967, it was a 2 bedroom fibro house, no garage, an outside toilet, the house was about 7 squares, which is about as big as a double garage today, I think from memory we bought our first new piece of furniture after we had been married about 4 years, so nothing was handed to us on a plate, we bought our first new car when I was in my late 40’s, we considered ourselves lucky with what we had, many people had less, I live in the Illawarra and depending where you want to live there is some affordable houses. I do agree that jobs tend to be not as permanent as they used to be, but I think some of that is because people have more opportunities in different areas, when I was young the opportunities for me were either the steelworks or the mines, back to the housing situation I think much of the problem has more to do with the size and area you want to live. Not all situations apply to all people, but I think that was much the same when we were young.
    Snagglepuss
    10th May 2019
    11:22am
    I Started work at the age of 14, no superannuation, no first home grant, our first house we paid 20% interest, the new generations have everything handed to them and still can't survive, won't go without, we started with second hand furniture to get started, our house was only 11 squares, but we survived with a small house. the new generation, new house, new everything in it , new car and Foxtel, I am not saying all, you have multiple generations on the dole, are they not a burden, we have paid our taxes all of our lives to be able retire and enjoy our life, which, for some was a hard life for little money, now, a lot of the newer generations sit on their bums and earn big money, don't know how to save, can't cook, so send out, or go out for their meals. we the baby generation have paid for the preveledge to be a pension and not have to live from pension day to pension day. start to work on the people who have never worked, expect everything, cheap housing, and have the attitude that you owe me. Single mums, back to work as soon as possible and earn for your children instead of having one after the other, get more money than the guy on minimum wage, yet they still complain. the government needs to look at the real people who are a burden, I don't think that I am, have paid my way
    Billv
    10th May 2019
    2:02pm
    I agree. was a little older when I started work full time but worked part-time after school till I left school and then full time work.

    The current generation are the ones sucking us dry with their don't need to work attitude and draining the coffers that we worked so hard for.
    TinTin
    10th May 2019
    2:57pm
    I also agree, started full time work at 17 after two years at Art college. Positioned top in class at art school and got the first job I applied for. Emigrated to Australia and had a choice of which job to accept (this was in 1966 mind you so there were more jobs available) Worked a full time day job all my working life plus freelance graphic design work and leadlight window design and production for many years which meant the only time I stopped working was to eat and sleep. I even vacuumed the house and did my own washing when I was married often hanging out my washing at midnight. This was in the 70's-80's when most married men did no housework after a day at work. Yep you guessed it I divorced my lazy wife after 14 years of marriage and splitting the proceeds of our house was a nightmare. Anyway back to the topic of todays youth, I understand that a lot would be lazy in comparison to a lot of our generation but then there are a lot less jobs to choose from these days and a lot of them would be part time or casual. This I feel would make them disheartened and eventually quite a few would simply give up hope and turn to drugs and or heavy drinking and well we all know the outcome.
    FrankC
    13th May 2019
    10:46am
    Yes ,Billy, if the surfers got off their surfboards and got a real job, they'd be worn out by the the time Friday came around. They prefer to go on the water even when the beaches are closed due to dangerous surf, and risk the lives of those lifesavers who have to go out to, rescue them. If the beaches are closed and the surf too dangerous, well, let them go out , but don't expect to get rescued, morons.
    Farside
    13th May 2019
    5:34pm
    FrankC, out of interest do you have an idea how many surfers are rescued by lifesavers each year? I'm not convinced surfers expect to be rescued.
    Culgoa
    10th May 2019
    11:33am
    What about the the many retires who work volunteering tirelessly for the betterment of their respective communities. A burden ? No bloody wide way in the world. Australia would rapidly grind to a halt without we volunteering seniors.
    PatrickRM
    10th May 2019
    12:52pm
    That’s true. And many, many help minding grandchildren, which otherwise could be a cost to the economy.
    Billv
    10th May 2019
    2:06pm
    When my wife passed away my pension dropped so dramatically that if I didn't do something I'd be living on a pittance.
    I'm working 2 hours a day as a Traffic Warden at a school crossing, paid a small amount so as not to affect the pension that I do receive. Mind you I enjoy doing it just to see the smiling faces of the kids
    Jim
    10th May 2019
    6:11pm
    Agree, when I retired I volunteered with Wollongong community transport, I have to say I got as much out of it as the people I was helping, also did the babysitting with the grandkids which was fantastic.
    Culgoa
    10th May 2019
    11:33am
    What about the the many retires who work volunteering tirelessly for the betterment of their respective communities. A burden ? No bloody wide way in the world. Australia would rapidly grind to a halt without we volunteering seniors.
    musicveg
    10th May 2019
    11:03pm
    So true and they are not celebrated or recognized enough. So much volunteering because there is not enough funding to pay real workers.
    Ted Wards
    10th May 2019
    11:45am
    At 54 and earn a full time income and have paid taxes for 36 years, I also am made to feel stupid, worthless and past my prime, when the opposite is true. Its not only pensioners but anyone over 40 that are treated as a burden, taking jobs away from the young etc. The truth is the experience and knowledge I bring everyday to my place of employment could not be replaced with a younger person, which is true of any older person that has spent a life time working. T ry every day to dispel the myths of ageing and present aging in a positive way, as a gift that not everyone enjoys!
    maelcolium
    10th May 2019
    11:56am
    The majority of pensioners either volunteer or provide support services gratis to others in the community. It has been calculated that if retirees withdrew this unpaid support, then Governments would need to fund more than the cost of the aged pension to pay others to carry out these tasks. The fact is that people never stop working, they just modify the way in which they contribute to society.
    Rocky2
    10th May 2019
    11:58am
    The Aged Pension.” Well, it certainly was collected, but it amassed such huge amounts, this government and those preceding, couldn’t help themselves and have spent billions of it over the years in a manner they had no right to. “the money earned by the people themselves through hard work and often deprivation ( as a legislation obligation part thereof was collected by the Tax Department for this very purpose ) was in fact and still is, collected as a tax originally, specifically and intentionally so as to fund, “The Aged Pension.”
    To dispel some misinformation currently being promoted by Party Politicians and their spin doctors and lying ex Ministers, listed here are some historical facts every Australian, especially the young who are under the miss-guided belief and/or assumption that they are funding the Aged Pension from their current hard work; They Are Not, they’re funding their own Pension Fund; a fund that governments have no intention of paying and to add insult to injury, legislate to force you to pay into a Super Fund to boot.
    1939-1945 – WORLD WAR II
    1942-1943
    As a Wartime measure, the Federal Government gained sole control over Australian Income Tax. Labor Prime Minister ( Ben Chifley ) introduced three bills to establish the National Welfare Fund, to be financed by a Compulsory Contribution (levy) of one and sixpence in the Pound (20/- ) on all personal income.
    1946
    Opposition Leader ( Robert Menzies ) stated that the Compulsory Contribution (levy) should be kept completely separate. That it should be shown separately on the Taxation Assessment and paid straight into a “TRUST” account and not mixed with the General Revenue.
    Menzies said “The stigma of charity should be removed from the Age Pension.” ”It should be an entitlement earned by the person’s personal contribution to the fund.”
    Prime Minister Chifley agreed and established The National Welfare fund as at 1/1/1946. A “Trust” Fund with the Parliament as “Trustee.”
    The Compulsory Contributions (levy) commenced as at 1st January 1946.
    It was shown separately on the personal Tax Assessments for 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949 and 1950
    and the compulsory levy was properly paid straight into the Special “Trust” fund
    and Welfare claims were paid out of the fund.
    The balance in the fund in 1950 was almost 100 Million Pounds.
    1949 Robert Menzies became Prime Minister and he introduced Bills to amend the acts governing the National Welfare Funds.
    The Compulsory Contributions (levy) was then grouped with the Taxation Assessment and appeared as one amount on the Taxation Assessments and was paid as one straight into the Consolidated Revenue Account.
    1951-1985
    The Compulsory levy of 7.5% now included in the tax continued to be collected and placed in the Consolidated Revenue Account treated as General Revenue and spent, until 1985.
    1974-1975
    Labor Prime Minister ( Gough Whitlam ) abolished income test for all persons 70 years of age and over and paid pensions to all people over that age.
    1975
    Liberal Prime Minister ( Malcolm Fraser ) cancelled the Withlam achievement of abolishing the test for all 70 years of age and over.
    1977
    Liberal Prime Minister ( Malcolm Fraser ) with Treasurer Philip Lynch ) transferred the balance in the Welfare Fund Account ( approximately $ 470.000.000 ) to Consolidated Revenue Account.
    1985
    Australian Labor Government repealed acts No. 39, 40, and 41 of 1945 ( The National Welfare Fund Acts ). Thus the funds finally ceased to exist yet the 7.5% levy continued to be collected as a proportion of the Income Tax revenue. It also introduced the (much maligned) Income and Asset Tests, thereby excluding millions of levy and tax paying Australians from receiving Social Services Pensions.
    This money these self funded contributions paid as a percentage of the total income tax collections are today worth far more than the amount of means tested pensions paid out.
    Actuaries have calculated the non-means tested entitlement due to each retiree, today is in excess of $ 500 per week.
    This surely debunks the politicians claim that the generation are paying a proportion of their current taxes to cover the payments made to pensioners. The obvious short fall has been swallowed by the government’s Taxation Black Hole.
    The historical summary above highlights the fact that politicians of opposing political parties each contributed to the agenda to destroy the entitlement as it was intended why ?
    When it clearly would not have been the will of the people.
    While Party Politicians are controlled by a few people who are hidden from public view yet are open to Manipulation and Outright Corruption , there can be no certainty of the payment of pensions.
    Only a majority of truly Independent representatives can bring about a change from Government under corporate control, to Government for the People, of the People, by the People.
    Just because a cabal of political miscreants become so GREEDY and they change the way a tax looks in the Ledgers,
    IN NO WAY REMOVES THE FACT THAT THIS TAX IS TILL COLLECTED AND IS SO COLLECTED STILL TO THIS DAY TO PROVIDE FOR THE SUPPLY AND CONTINUATION OF THE OLD AGE PENSION.
    A STIPEND TO THE ELDERLY CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY WHO HAVE WORKED FOR DECADES OF THEIR LIVES TO BUILD A NATION AND HAVE FROM WORKING DAY ONE OF THEIR LIVES, BEEN PAYING 7% PLUS OF THEIR TAXES DIRECTLY TOWARDS THIS PENSION.
    The old age pension is not a privilege;
    Is not a right;
    Is not a gift;
    Is not even welfare;
    The Old Age Pension is an asset;
    Owned and accrued by each Australian Citizen who has funded this asset from their very own purse.
    The governments of the day were employed to amass, secure, invest and manage a fund that in its first 5 years bulged to almost 100.000.000 Pounds ( am amount in that day that equated in that day in this day’s dollars and cents, to approximately AU $240 million give or take a million or two ).
    They did amass, secure, invest and manage and the figures were colossal and frightening to them and hence they conspired to hide them back into the Consolidated Revenue Bucket and to this day, the bucket has been brimming with a 7.5% tax collected specifically and only, for the Old Age Pension.
    Now young Australians ! You are not paying for the welfare of Baby boomers, you are paying for yourselves, new immigrants, the needy in society requiring social services and welfare, dole recipients and the bludgers, – BUT YOU ARE NOT PAYING FOR THE OLD PENSION OF ELDERLY AUSTRALIANS WHO HAVE WORKED ALL THEIR LIVES IN THIS COUNTRY AND PAID THEIR DUE FAIR SHARE OF TAXES. Nick Minchin on the Tony Jones ABC TV Program Q & A 11/09/2008 stated quite clearly that funds were not, have not and are not collected and held in a bank account waiting for the government to pay it out in the form of the Old Age Pension, or words that meant, “exactly this.”
    As an ex Australian Federal Government Finance Minister, this man knows that this statement on that television program, was a blatant lie ( and he said it with a look of sincerity on his face, the ability of doing so obviously a political prerequisite ).
    Paddington
    10th May 2019
    12:40pm
    Too lengthy, needs to be summarised.
    I don’t know about others on here but I am not interested in such a long piece.
    And it is repeated making it worse.
    Sorry not meaning to offend but perhaps be more concise.
    Tood
    10th May 2019
    1:09pm
    Worth reading so you know the real story
    older&wiser
    10th May 2019
    1:44pm
    I remember clearly as anything - when I started work in the late 1960's, the HR person sitting us down and explaining that 7.5% of my tax would go into a pension fund for when I retired. So when they changed the superannuation ruling in 1992, I stupidly thought I would have a nice little nest egg. Silly me!!
    Then I found it had been tossed into consolidated revenue - and I didn't have a cent! PLUS in mid 1990's gave up work for a few years to care for ailing parent. So again behind the eight ball. Definitely feel robbed - and was.
    GeorgeM
    10th May 2019
    10:50pm
    Thanks for repeating this summary, Rocky2, the more people read it the better.

    BOTH Major parties have acted as a Tag Team (with Greens helping) and have stolen the money taxpayers contributed and denied the fair returns to retirees. Hence, BOTH Major parties and the Greens need to be booted out without any further delay. 3 Million+ Retirees (around 20% of the electorate) have the power and MUST act now, this robbery has been going on for too long.
    Rocky2
    10th May 2019
    11:58am
    The Aged Pension.” Well, it certainly was collected, but it amassed such huge amounts, this government and those preceding, couldn’t help themselves and have spent billions of it over the years in a manner they had no right to. “the money earned by the people themselves through hard work and often deprivation ( as a legislation obligation part thereof was collected by the Tax Department for this very purpose ) was in fact and still is, collected as a tax originally, specifically and intentionally so as to fund, “The Aged Pension.”
    To dispel some misinformation currently being promoted by Party Politicians and their spin doctors and lying ex Ministers, listed here are some historical facts every Australian, especially the young who are under the miss-guided belief and/or assumption that they are funding the Aged Pension from their current hard work; They Are Not, they’re funding their own Pension Fund; a fund that governments have no intention of paying and to add insult to injury, legislate to force you to pay into a Super Fund to boot.
    1939-1945 – WORLD WAR II
    1942-1943
    As a Wartime measure, the Federal Government gained sole control over Australian Income Tax. Labor Prime Minister ( Ben Chifley ) introduced three bills to establish the National Welfare Fund, to be financed by a Compulsory Contribution (levy) of one and sixpence in the Pound (20/- ) on all personal income.
    1946
    Opposition Leader ( Robert Menzies ) stated that the Compulsory Contribution (levy) should be kept completely separate. That it should be shown separately on the Taxation Assessment and paid straight into a “TRUST” account and not mixed with the General Revenue.
    Menzies said “The stigma of charity should be removed from the Age Pension.” ”It should be an entitlement earned by the person’s personal contribution to the fund.”
    Prime Minister Chifley agreed and established The National Welfare fund as at 1/1/1946. A “Trust” Fund with the Parliament as “Trustee.”
    The Compulsory Contributions (levy) commenced as at 1st January 1946.
    It was shown separately on the personal Tax Assessments for 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949 and 1950
    and the compulsory levy was properly paid straight into the Special “Trust” fund
    and Welfare claims were paid out of the fund.
    The balance in the fund in 1950 was almost 100 Million Pounds.
    1949 Robert Menzies became Prime Minister and he introduced Bills to amend the acts governing the National Welfare Funds.
    The Compulsory Contributions (levy) was then grouped with the Taxation Assessment and appeared as one amount on the Taxation Assessments and was paid as one straight into the Consolidated Revenue Account.
    1951-1985
    The Compulsory levy of 7.5% now included in the tax continued to be collected and placed in the Consolidated Revenue Account treated as General Revenue and spent, until 1985.
    1974-1975
    Labor Prime Minister ( Gough Whitlam ) abolished income test for all persons 70 years of age and over and paid pensions to all people over that age.
    1975
    Liberal Prime Minister ( Malcolm Fraser ) cancelled the Withlam achievement of abolishing the test for all 70 years of age and over.
    1977
    Liberal Prime Minister ( Malcolm Fraser ) with Treasurer Philip Lynch ) transferred the balance in the Welfare Fund Account ( approximately $ 470.000.000 ) to Consolidated Revenue Account.
    1985
    Australian Labor Government repealed acts No. 39, 40, and 41 of 1945 ( The National Welfare Fund Acts ). Thus the funds finally ceased to exist yet the 7.5% levy continued to be collected as a proportion of the Income Tax revenue. It also introduced the (much maligned) Income and Asset Tests, thereby excluding millions of levy and tax paying Australians from receiving Social Services Pensions.
    This money these self funded contributions paid as a percentage of the total income tax collections are today worth far more than the amount of means tested pensions paid out.
    Actuaries have calculated the non-means tested entitlement due to each retiree, today is in excess of $ 500 per week.
    This surely debunks the politicians claim that the generation are paying a proportion of their current taxes to cover the payments made to pensioners. The obvious short fall has been swallowed by the government’s Taxation Black Hole.
    The historical summary above highlights the fact that politicians of opposing political parties each contributed to the agenda to destroy the entitlement as it was intended why ?
    When it clearly would not have been the will of the people.
    While Party Politicians are controlled by a few people who are hidden from public view yet are open to Manipulation and Outright Corruption , there can be no certainty of the payment of pensions.
    Only a majority of truly Independent representatives can bring about a change from Government under corporate control, to Government for the People, of the People, by the People.
    Just because a cabal of political miscreants become so GREEDY and they change the way a tax looks in the Ledgers,
    IN NO WAY REMOVES THE FACT THAT THIS TAX IS TILL COLLECTED AND IS SO COLLECTED STILL TO THIS DAY TO PROVIDE FOR THE SUPPLY AND CONTINUATION OF THE OLD AGE PENSION.
    A STIPEND TO THE ELDERLY CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY WHO HAVE WORKED FOR DECADES OF THEIR LIVES TO BUILD A NATION AND HAVE FROM WORKING DAY ONE OF THEIR LIVES, BEEN PAYING 7% PLUS OF THEIR TAXES DIRECTLY TOWARDS THIS PENSION.
    The old age pension is not a privilege;
    Is not a right;
    Is not a gift;
    Is not even welfare;
    The Old Age Pension is an asset;
    Owned and accrued by each Australian Citizen who has funded this asset from their very own purse.
    The governments of the day were employed to amass, secure, invest and manage a fund that in its first 5 years bulged to almost 100.000.000 Pounds ( am amount in that day that equated in that day in this day’s dollars and cents, to approximately AU $240 million give or take a million or two ).
    They did amass, secure, invest and manage and the figures were colossal and frightening to them and hence they conspired to hide them back into the Consolidated Revenue Bucket and to this day, the bucket has been brimming with a 7.5% tax collected specifically and only, for the Old Age Pension.
    Now young Australians ! You are not paying for the welfare of Baby boomers, you are paying for yourselves, new immigrants, the needy in society requiring social services and welfare, dole recipients and the bludgers, – BUT YOU ARE NOT PAYING FOR THE OLD PENSION OF ELDERLY AUSTRALIANS WHO HAVE WORKED ALL THEIR LIVES IN THIS COUNTRY AND PAID THEIR DUE FAIR SHARE OF TAXES. Nick Minchin on the Tony Jones ABC TV Program Q & A 11/09/2008 stated quite clearly that funds were not, have not and are not collected and held in a bank account waiting for the government to pay it out in the form of the Old Age Pension, or words that meant, “exactly this.”
    As an ex Australian Federal Government Finance Minister, this man knows that this statement on that television program, was a blatant lie ( and he said it with a look of sincerity on his face, the ability of doing so obviously a political prerequisite ).
    Rocky2
    10th May 2019
    11:59am
    The Aged Pension.” Well, it certainly was collected, but it amassed such huge amounts, this government and those preceding, couldn’t help themselves and have spent billions of it over the years in a manner they had no right to. “the money earned by the people themselves through hard work and often deprivation ( as a legislation obligation part thereof was collected by the Tax Department for this very purpose ) was in fact and still is, collected as a tax originally, specifically and intentionally so as to fund, “The Aged Pension.”
    To dispel some misinformation currently being promoted by Party Politicians and their spin doctors and lying ex Ministers, listed here are some historical facts every Australian, especially the young who are under the miss-guided belief and/or assumption that they are funding the Aged Pension from their current hard work; They Are Not, they’re funding their own Pension Fund; a fund that governments have no intention of paying and to add insult to injury, legislate to force you to pay into a Super Fund to boot.
    1939-1945 – WORLD WAR II
    1942-1943
    As a Wartime measure, the Federal Government gained sole control over Australian Income Tax. Labor Prime Minister ( Ben Chifley ) introduced three bills to establish the National Welfare Fund, to be financed by a Compulsory Contribution (levy) of one and sixpence in the Pound (20/- ) on all personal income.
    1946
    Opposition Leader ( Robert Menzies ) stated that the Compulsory Contribution (levy) should be kept completely separate. That it should be shown separately on the Taxation Assessment and paid straight into a “TRUST” account and not mixed with the General Revenue.
    Menzies said “The stigma of charity should be removed from the Age Pension.” ”It should be an entitlement earned by the person’s personal contribution to the fund.”
    Prime Minister Chifley agreed and established The National Welfare fund as at 1/1/1946. A “Trust” Fund with the Parliament as “Trustee.”
    The Compulsory Contributions (levy) commenced as at 1st January 1946.
    It was shown separately on the personal Tax Assessments for 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949 and 1950
    and the compulsory levy was properly paid straight into the Special “Trust” fund
    and Welfare claims were paid out of the fund.
    The balance in the fund in 1950 was almost 100 Million Pounds.
    1949 Robert Menzies became Prime Minister and he introduced Bills to amend the acts governing the National Welfare Funds.
    The Compulsory Contributions (levy) was then grouped with the Taxation Assessment and appeared as one amount on the Taxation Assessments and was paid as one straight into the Consolidated Revenue Account.
    1951-1985
    The Compulsory levy of 7.5% now included in the tax continued to be collected and placed in the Consolidated Revenue Account treated as General Revenue and spent, until 1985.
    1974-1975
    Labor Prime Minister ( Gough Whitlam ) abolished income test for all persons 70 years of age and over and paid pensions to all people over that age.
    1975
    Liberal Prime Minister ( Malcolm Fraser ) cancelled the Withlam achievement of abolishing the test for all 70 years of age and over.
    1977
    Liberal Prime Minister ( Malcolm Fraser ) with Treasurer Philip Lynch ) transferred the balance in the Welfare Fund Account ( approximately $ 470.000.000 ) to Consolidated Revenue Account.
    1985
    Australian Labor Government repealed acts No. 39, 40, and 41 of 1945 ( The National Welfare Fund Acts ). Thus the funds finally ceased to exist yet the 7.5% levy continued to be collected as a proportion of the Income Tax revenue. It also introduced the (much maligned) Income and Asset Tests, thereby excluding millions of levy and tax paying Australians from receiving Social Services Pensions.
    This money these self funded contributions paid as a percentage of the total income tax collections are today worth far more than the amount of means tested pensions paid out.
    Actuaries have calculated the non-means tested entitlement due to each retiree, today is in excess of $ 500 per week.
    This surely debunks the politicians claim that the generation are paying a proportion of their current taxes to cover the payments made to pensioners. The obvious short fall has been swallowed by the government’s Taxation Black Hole.
    The historical summary above highlights the fact that politicians of opposing political parties each contributed to the agenda to destroy the entitlement as it was intended why ?
    When it clearly would not have been the will of the people.
    While Party Politicians are controlled by a few people who are hidden from public view yet are open to Manipulation and Outright Corruption , there can be no certainty of the payment of pensions.
    Only a majority of truly Independent representatives can bring about a change from Government under corporate control, to Government for the People, of the People, by the People.
    Just because a cabal of political miscreants become so GREEDY and they change the way a tax looks in the Ledgers,
    IN NO WAY REMOVES THE FACT THAT THIS TAX IS TILL COLLECTED AND IS SO COLLECTED STILL TO THIS DAY TO PROVIDE FOR THE SUPPLY AND CONTINUATION OF THE OLD AGE PENSION.
    A STIPEND TO THE ELDERLY CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY WHO HAVE WORKED FOR DECADES OF THEIR LIVES TO BUILD A NATION AND HAVE FROM WORKING DAY ONE OF THEIR LIVES, BEEN PAYING 7% PLUS OF THEIR TAXES DIRECTLY TOWARDS THIS PENSION.
    The old age pension is not a privilege;
    Is not a right;
    Is not a gift;
    Is not even welfare;
    The Old Age Pension is an asset;
    Owned and accrued by each Australian Citizen who has funded this asset from their very own purse.
    The governments of the day were employed to amass, secure, invest and manage a fund that in its first 5 years bulged to almost 100.000.000 Pounds ( am amount in that day that equated in that day in this day’s dollars and cents, to approximately AU $240 million give or take a million or two ).
    They did amass, secure, invest and manage and the figures were colossal and frightening to them and hence they conspired to hide them back into the Consolidated Revenue Bucket and to this day, the bucket has been brimming with a 7.5% tax collected specifically and only, for the Old Age Pension.
    Now young Australians ! You are not paying for the welfare of Baby boomers, you are paying for yourselves, new immigrants, the needy in society requiring social services and welfare, dole recipients and the bludgers, – BUT YOU ARE NOT PAYING FOR THE OLD PENSION OF ELDERLY AUSTRALIANS WHO HAVE WORKED ALL THEIR LIVES IN THIS COUNTRY AND PAID THEIR DUE FAIR SHARE OF TAXES. Nick Minchin on the Tony Jones ABC TV Program Q & A 11/09/2008 stated quite clearly that funds were not, have not and are not collected and held in a bank account waiting for the government to pay it out in the form of the Old Age Pension, or words that meant, “exactly this.”
    As an ex Australian Federal Government Finance Minister, this man knows that this statement on that television program, was a blatant lie ( and he said it with a look of sincerity on his face, the ability of doing so obviously a political prerequisite ).
    Rocky2
    10th May 2019
    11:59am
    The Aged Pension.” Well, it certainly was collected, but it amassed such huge amounts, this government and those preceding, couldn’t help themselves and have spent billions of it over the years in a manner they had no right to. “the money earned by the people themselves through hard work and often deprivation ( as a legislation obligation part thereof was collected by the Tax Department for this very purpose ) was in fact and still is, collected as a tax originally, specifically and intentionally so as to fund, “The Aged Pension.”
    To dispel some misinformation currently being promoted by Party Politicians and their spin doctors and lying ex Ministers, listed here are some historical facts every Australian, especially the young who are under the miss-guided belief and/or assumption that they are funding the Aged Pension from their current hard work; They Are Not, they’re funding their own Pension Fund; a fund that governments have no intention of paying and to add insult to injury, legislate to force you to pay into a Super Fund to boot.
    1939-1945 – WORLD WAR II
    1942-1943
    As a Wartime measure, the Federal Government gained sole control over Australian Income Tax. Labor Prime Minister ( Ben Chifley ) introduced three bills to establish the National Welfare Fund, to be financed by a Compulsory Contribution (levy) of one and sixpence in the Pound (20/- ) on all personal income.
    1946
    Opposition Leader ( Robert Menzies ) stated that the Compulsory Contribution (levy) should be kept completely separate. That it should be shown separately on the Taxation Assessment and paid straight into a “TRUST” account and not mixed with the General Revenue.
    Menzies said “The stigma of charity should be removed from the Age Pension.” ”It should be an entitlement earned by the person’s personal contribution to the fund.”
    Prime Minister Chifley agreed and established The National Welfare fund as at 1/1/1946. A “Trust” Fund with the Parliament as “Trustee.”
    The Compulsory Contributions (levy) commenced as at 1st January 1946.
    It was shown separately on the personal Tax Assessments for 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949 and 1950
    and the compulsory levy was properly paid straight into the Special “Trust” fund
    and Welfare claims were paid out of the fund.
    The balance in the fund in 1950 was almost 100 Million Pounds.
    1949 Robert Menzies became Prime Minister and he introduced Bills to amend the acts governing the National Welfare Funds.
    The Compulsory Contributions (levy) was then grouped with the Taxation Assessment and appeared as one amount on the Taxation Assessments and was paid as one straight into the Consolidated Revenue Account.
    1951-1985
    The Compulsory levy of 7.5% now included in the tax continued to be collected and placed in the Consolidated Revenue Account treated as General Revenue and spent, until 1985.
    1974-1975
    Labor Prime Minister ( Gough Whitlam ) abolished income test for all persons 70 years of age and over and paid pensions to all people over that age.
    1975
    Liberal Prime Minister ( Malcolm Fraser ) cancelled the Withlam achievement of abolishing the test for all 70 years of age and over.
    1977
    Liberal Prime Minister ( Malcolm Fraser ) with Treasurer Philip Lynch ) transferred the balance in the Welfare Fund Account ( approximately $ 470.000.000 ) to Consolidated Revenue Account.
    1985
    Australian Labor Government repealed acts No. 39, 40, and 41 of 1945 ( The National Welfare Fund Acts ). Thus the funds finally ceased to exist yet the 7.5% levy continued to be collected as a proportion of the Income Tax revenue. It also introduced the (much maligned) Income and Asset Tests, thereby excluding millions of levy and tax paying Australians from receiving Social Services Pensions.
    This money these self funded contributions paid as a percentage of the total income tax collections are today worth far more than the amount of means tested pensions paid out.
    Actuaries have calculated the non-means tested entitlement due to each retiree, today is in excess of $ 500 per week.
    This surely debunks the politicians claim that the generation are paying a proportion of their current taxes to cover the payments made to pensioners. The obvious short fall has been swallowed by the government’s Taxation Black Hole.
    The historical summary above highlights the fact that politicians of opposing political parties each contributed to the agenda to destroy the entitlement as it was intended why ?
    When it clearly would not have been the will of the people.
    While Party Politicians are controlled by a few people who are hidden from public view yet are open to Manipulation and Outright Corruption , there can be no certainty of the payment of pensions.
    Only a majority of truly Independent representatives can bring about a change from Government under corporate control, to Government for the People, of the People, by the People.
    Just because a cabal of political miscreants become so GREEDY and they change the way a tax looks in the Ledgers,
    IN NO WAY REMOVES THE FACT THAT THIS TAX IS TILL COLLECTED AND IS SO COLLECTED STILL TO THIS DAY TO PROVIDE FOR THE SUPPLY AND CONTINUATION OF THE OLD AGE PENSION.
    A STIPEND TO THE ELDERLY CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY WHO HAVE WORKED FOR DECADES OF THEIR LIVES TO BUILD A NATION AND HAVE FROM WORKING DAY ONE OF THEIR LIVES, BEEN PAYING 7% PLUS OF THEIR TAXES DIRECTLY TOWARDS THIS PENSION.
    The old age pension is not a privilege;
    Is not a right;
    Is not a gift;
    Is not even welfare;
    The Old Age Pension is an asset;
    Owned and accrued by each Australian Citizen who has funded this asset from their very own purse.
    The governments of the day were employed to amass, secure, invest and manage a fund that in its first 5 years bulged to almost 100.000.000 Pounds ( am amount in that day that equated in that day in this day’s dollars and cents, to approximately AU $240 million give or take a million or two ).
    They did amass, secure, invest and manage and the figures were colossal and frightening to them and hence they conspired to hide them back into the Consolidated Revenue Bucket and to this day, the bucket has been brimming with a 7.5% tax collected specifically and only, for the Old Age Pension.
    Now young Australians ! You are not paying for the welfare of Baby boomers, you are paying for yourselves, new immigrants, the needy in society requiring social services and welfare, dole recipients and the bludgers, – BUT YOU ARE NOT PAYING FOR THE OLD PENSION OF ELDERLY AUSTRALIANS WHO HAVE WORKED ALL THEIR LIVES IN THIS COUNTRY AND PAID THEIR DUE FAIR SHARE OF TAXES. Nick Minchin on the Tony Jones ABC TV Program Q & A 11/09/2008 stated quite clearly that funds were not, have not and are not collected and held in a bank account waiting for the government to pay it out in the form of the Old Age Pension, or words that meant, “exactly this.”
    As an ex Australian Federal Government Finance Minister, this man knows that this statement on that television program, was a blatant lie ( and he said it with a look of sincerity on his face, the ability of doing so obviously a political prerequisite ).
    Kee
    10th May 2019
    12:09pm
    I feel I paid my way, I started work at 15 and recently retired at 65. I have never had to rely on government handouts through my working life and don't feel I am a burden on society.
    I feel the media has a lot to do with the way younger Australians see the older generation
    My uncles fought and some lost their lives in the world wars to keep Australia safe from other invading countries.
    deejay
    10th May 2019
    12:09pm
    As long as politicians get their huge salaries - huge super pensions - subsided lunches - subsided alcoholic drinks in canberra - com cars to ferry them around the country side and take them home when they're too pissed to drive themselves - free air flights around the world - more and more huge perks we don't even know about - when one of them snuffs it their wives are pretty well looked after too - how the hell do you think these lot care about aged pensioners - they robbed the till years ago when there was a 7% money allocation to be put aside to go towards age pension which they put into consolidated revenue - they stuffed up then and they have consistently stuffed up ever since - the base rate of the age pension needs to be increased significantly to avoid more poverty in pensioners but this will never happen because these highly educated nit wits simply don't care - have a look at the stats to see how we fare compared to other countries on how much is allocated to welfare/PENSIONS - australia has a 3.5 % of it's GDP as against OECD of 7.8 % - of course these boys don't want us to see these figures as it shows what a marvelous bad job they are doing - DJ
    Billv
    10th May 2019
    2:14pm
    Yep, the perks need to be reduced drastically. At lease they've stopped new politicians from
    obtaining so much but it should be retrospective. There are so many who did such a short stint and living a life of luxury.
    musicveg
    10th May 2019
    11:05pm
    That is why the Government keeps saying we cannot afford anything, because they need it to serve themselves, cut out their life long pensions and asset test them, would save billions. What a greedy bunch of people they are, but who dares change it?
    FrankC
    13th May 2019
    11:19am
    Those greedy buggers(ex politiciasns ) ought to pay into a super fund, and then when they retire, live like every body else who live of their super. They won't get a pension, because their assets (under the test ), may not allow them to qualify ! When we retirer , our salary stops, so should theirs.
    deejay
    10th May 2019
    12:09pm
    As long as politicians get their huge salaries - huge super pensions - subsided lunches - subsided alcoholic drinks in canberra - com cars to ferry them around the country side and take them home when they're too pissed to drive themselves - free air flights around the world - more and more huge perks we don't even know about - when one of them snuffs it their wives are pretty well looked after too - how the hell do you think these lot care about aged pensioners - they robbed the till years ago when there was a 7% money allocation to be put aside to go towards age pension which they put into consolidated revenue - they stuffed up then and they have consistently stuffed up ever since - the base rate of the age pension needs to be increased significantly to avoid more poverty in pensioners but this will never happen because these highly educated nit wits simply don't care - have a look at the stats to see how we fare compared to other countries on how much is allocated to welfare/PENSIONS - australia has a 3.5 % of it's GDP as against OECD of 7.8 % - of course these boys don't want us to see these figures as it shows what a marvelous bad job they are doing - DJ
    Paddington
    10th May 2019
    12:34pm
    I think the only ones who see us as a burden would be some, not all, SFRs on here who rubbish and insult pensioners. The good thing about poorer people whether pensioners or others is that all the money they get goes back into the economy. So, we are just redistributing it as pensioners. YLC never put down retirees and let them have full rein even when they espouse rubbish.
    David
    10th May 2019
    12:43pm
    Yes, I for one am dismayed by the attitude of so many Millennials (not all by any means) about ‘us’ oldies being a ‘burden/cost’ on society. They need a reality check: we scrimped & saved, purchased when we could using cash (no credit facility then), went without & essentially lived frugal lives paying taxes our entire working lives. You just have to witness the discretionary spending so often prevalent today & the easy credit available in its various guises & the wanting it all now & not prepared to wait attitude. I am not against the vast majority of millennials at all, nor am I a grumpy old fart, however, a reality check & an appreciation & sincere respect of what us baby boomers have accomplished is warranted.
    older&wiser
    10th May 2019
    1:48pm
    Agree with you...plus I am pretty alarmed at these young millennials who see nothing wrong to 'not have to worry because I will inherit mum/dad's stuff'. We've WORKED for it, they think they are ENTITLED to it. I heard a young one brag recently at a friends wedding, that his future and retirement will be very cushy. He is an only child, and 'mum has only around 5 years to go before I inherit'. I nearly slapped him.
    Sundays
    10th May 2019
    7:34pm
    I’ve had conversations with millennials who espouse the latest nonsense that older people should have to sell their homes and downsize to fund their retirement as well as freeing up housing stock for young people etc.

    When asked how that would affect their own grandparents, the penny has dropped. No, we don’t mean Nan and Pop, that wouldn’t be right! I just think that they have some growing up to do.
    TREBOR
    10th May 2019
    8:21pm
    Well - my two kids - 1987 and 1990 (late starters, their mother and I - she in film-making and me a man of mystery to some) would prefer to have their parents around for a long time yet, and are not interested in cashing us up.
    Farside
    10th May 2019
    10:06pm
    David, if you are dismayed by the attitude of many millenials, then you are going to be really excited when the millenials move into positions of influence and show you what they really think.
    Irishwolfhound
    10th May 2019
    12:53pm
    Many of the younger generation have not read about the history of the pension in this Country! Working people paid money from their salaries into a fund for "retirement"., run by the government. This was until Malcolm Frazer took it and put it into the General revenue and it was lost forever! Read it here -as e\xplained by Noel Whittaker https://tinyurl.com/y62xv6x4
    Farside
    10th May 2019
    10:09pm
    Many of the older generation have not read about the history of the pension in this Country and those that have then frequently misunderstand it.
    older&wiser
    11th May 2019
    1:38pm
    Agree - as many of the younger generation live with an 'entitlement' attitude. They absolutely do not see the relationship between working for something. Too many now want to be 'celebrities' or 'influencers' or 'reality show stars'.
    I might be long in the tooth but I remember clearly being told at my first yob in late 1960's about how some of my tax would go towards a pension when I retired. Had I been told the truth, I would not have wasted over 25 years of not putting something aside for my later years. Was down right theft...
    Farside
    11th May 2019
    9:16pm
    Sunset, your comments re the younger generation might reflect those of your acquaintance but it is not my experience and unfair to use a sweeping generalisation. If the media is a guide then I suspect your comments refer to "some" rather than "many".

    The advice given at your first job was dodgy but there was no theft. It was your mistake to ignore financial planning in the subsequent 25 years. It's a tough lesson to learn in hindsight for not taking personal responsibility for your own retirement but that is the case.

    It was reported in 1968 that 650,000 or one quarter of all males employed in private industry were covered by retirement plans so it was scarcely a secret. Another 600,000 civil servants were also covered. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article107066938

    I commenced work in 1970s and paying 4% of salary into a defined benefit super scheme (7xFAS), which did not seem unusual; my dad was contributing to RAAF DFRDB scheme, mum to a super scheme with NAB (a big mistake that she has since received compensation for) and most of my friends had super or provident fund deductions from their pay.
    Tood
    10th May 2019
    12:59pm
    No the elderly are not a burden it's only this self-indulgent government who sees us as such!
    GeorgeM
    10th May 2019
    11:08pm
    The comment "Australia spends an average of 3.5 per cent of its GDP on age-related spending against an OECD average of 7.8 per cent." says it all. We may not be "one of the meanest countries" in the OECD, we may be THE meanest. Not surprised that none of the Major parties (Liberal, Labor & Greens) who stuffed up the retirement system have no plans to fix it as per recent responses to YLC questions. Retirees need to act NOW using their collective strength (3 Million+ being approx 20% of the electorate), and throw them out.
    Franky
    10th May 2019
    1:09pm
    We need a cultural shift in Asia older people are valued for their experience and therefore remain useful to society by contributing.
    KSS
    10th May 2019
    3:09pm
    But no self funded pension and they are on the streets!
    TREBOR
    10th May 2019
    8:23pm
    Whatchu' mean 'self funded pension'? Their state doesn't give them a pension as reward for service in countless ways... life's cheap for that kind as long as the fat cats can thrive monumentally...

    We neither want nor need that kind of sh1t here...
    Farside
    10th May 2019
    10:12pm
    Franky wants Australia to have Asian style treatment of older people, hence a cultural shift because we are a long way from that even if the pension and aged care is not perfect.
    Ahjay
    10th May 2019
    1:27pm
    I left school at 13, worked until age75,mostly in above average paying jobs. I always paid income tax, stamp duty when applicable, CGT, fuel,alcohol, gambling and sales taxes.
    When I married at age 22 my wife was dismissed from her government job as they were only for single women. The economy of the country was based on a single income family.

    I am in the Kerry Packer camp here, it is not my fault if the government wasted my money, instead of putting it towards my part pension for retirement. I went my entire life without a handout and never had a bad debt. Perhaps I would be able to assist the federal treasurer.
    Spend less than you earn, borrow less than you can afford.Educate yourself on financial literacy and don't trust financial advisers. Invest he fees you would have paid them.
    TREBOR
    10th May 2019
    8:24pm
    'it's not as if they're doing a good job with it'.......
    Tom Tank
    10th May 2019
    1:32pm
    A major issue in this country is the obsession of reducing tax. This country cannot function without finance and a fair and equitable taxation system will provide that. Our current system is not fair and equitable and too many people get taken in with the mantra of reducing tax. This is a ploy by right wing forces to ensure their supporters actually build wealth. Australia is, for example, the only developed country that does not have some form of Death Duty or Inheritance Tax. That type of tax is not an imposition on the living despite statements to the contrary. None of the major political parties would dare to suggest the reintroduction of such a tax.
    If we don't support our older citizens as well as other countries it is not unreasonable to point the finger at our taxation system as being a major reason for that fact.
    Farside
    10th May 2019
    10:17pm
    Inheritance taxes will be certain as night follows day when the millennials take over and rebalance national wealth distribution.
    musicveg
    10th May 2019
    11:10pm
    The Greens wanted to but abandoned the idea after too many complaints.
    Farside
    10th May 2019
    11:19pm
    musicveg, I don't think you will find support for inheritance taxes split on party lines. The fact is inheritance and property taxes together with bank taxes are efficient and effective.
    Tom Tank
    10th May 2019
    1:32pm
    A major issue in this country is the obsession of reducing tax. This country cannot function without finance and a fair and equitable taxation system will provide that. Our current system is not fair and equitable and too many people get taken in with the mantra of reducing tax. This is a ploy by right wing forces to ensure their supporters actually build wealth. Australia is, for example, the only developed country that does not have some form of Death Duty or Inheritance Tax. That type of tax is not an imposition on the living despite statements to the contrary. None of the major political parties would dare to suggest the reintroduction of such a tax.
    If we don't support our older citizens as well as other countries it is not unreasonable to point the finger at our taxation system as being a major reason for that fact.
    Ahjay
    10th May 2019
    1:56pm
    There is a 15% death tax on superannuation which rises to 30% if you die intestate unless it goes to a dependent.
    Old Fella
    10th May 2019
    2:09pm
    The term 'Burden on Society' in the context of economies, seems misplaced. I would suggest the term burden would better apply to those intentionally damaging Society. It would include Criminals, Greedy individuals and those who deliberately but too often successfully desert Society with malice of forethought and who consciously distribute Community pain and discomfort by their activity. ( eg Ponzi racketeers, Environmental destroyers.) Poverty and Disadvantage in a Society is not so much a burden as it is an identifiable ailment that any Advanced Society/Community should find ways to address and resolve,
    Old Fella
    10th May 2019
    2:09pm
    The term 'Burden on Society' in the context of economies, seems misplaced. I would suggest the term burden would better apply to those intentionally damaging Society. It would include Criminals, Greedy individuals and those who deliberately but too often successfully desert Society with malice of forethought and who consciously distribute Community pain and discomfort by their activity. ( eg Ponzi racketeers, Environmental destroyers.) Poverty and Disadvantage in a Society is not so much a burden as it is an identifiable ailment that any Advanced Society/Community should find ways to address and resolve,
    Arjan
    10th May 2019
    2:09pm
    I take umbrage at anyone, whoever they may be, making the comment that the older generation is a burden on society. Speaking for myself and probably for most of my generation, I went straight from high school into a job at age 16 and, apart from the 2 years when I had my children, I worked until I retired at age 70. And, after that, did my fair share of volunteering. I was born during World War 11 years so my parents struggled with rationing and food shortages and, of course, the uncertainties of war. Once I married, my husband and I worked hard to save a deposit for a house which didn't come with all mod cons etc. - essential things like a washing machine or fridge had to be saved for and you made do until you had the money. We decided not to start a family until we could provide for our children. So, I don't think anybody has the right to regard my generation as a burden - we paid our way and paid our taxes, even when the going was tough.
    pedro the swift
    10th May 2019
    2:25pm
    The "aged burden on society" is pushed by some media.it will make it easier to turn you all into "soylent green"
    BigAl
    10th May 2019
    2:38pm
    It seems to me that there are big differences in atitudes of baby boomers and millennials. Baby boomers were brought up with an attitude of being resilient and self reliance. Millennials were given everything since the day they were born. They love socialism and expect the state to give them a lifestyle like the Kardashians. In other words they believe they are entitled. Our schools urgently need to teach life skills - budgeting, investing, relationships, goal setting, nutrition, health, stress management, conflict resolution etc etc as the key core of the curriculum. No kid should pass each grade without reaching a certain level of proficiency.
    KSS
    10th May 2019
    3:17pm
    Most of those things you want school to teach are parental responsibilities. Schools should be concentrating on teaching kids how to read and write, respect for other people and preparing them for the workplace. They also need to be taught resilience and that they are going to face hardships and disappointment and know how to deal with it.
    Kids are not owed anything, they have to work for it like generations before them.
    BigAl
    10th May 2019
    4:42pm
    The trouble is parents don't teach their kids the essential things that will guarantee that they live a healthy wealthy happy life. Parents today don't set boundaries for their kids so kids expect entitlements as the norm. If we don't teach life skills, some stage in the near future we will have a bad recession and the taxes won't be any where enough to pay for everyone's entitlements. Taking away entitlements may lead to civil unrest already happening in France and even civil war. Good luck.
    Sundays
    10th May 2019
    7:43pm
    My grandchildren are always being complimented by teachers, friends, strangers for their manners. It’s nice feedback for our daughter but in reality, she is just teaching them what she learnt as a child. When did the manners we grew up with become something special? Is saying please and thank you such a big deal

    I agree KSS, resilience is critical. Not every child can win a prize.
    Farside
    10th May 2019
    10:22pm
    As a demographic, you should be proud the millennials are the way they because that is the way we raised them to be. What goes around, comes around and in life karma can be a bitch.
    musicveg
    10th May 2019
    11:13pm
    Schools do need to teach kids about money, making it, keeping it, investing it, spending wisely. Kids come out of schools and have no idea what to do once they start earning money so they just spend it all. Yes some parents will teach them but far too many parents do not know much themselves. But the rich like it this way, just work and pay your taxes don't get rich, we want to be the richest and we need people to stay poor.

    10th May 2019
    2:39pm
    I started life with nothing and I have half of it left.
    KSS
    10th May 2019
    3:18pm
    At least you have half left!
    Karl Marx
    10th May 2019
    7:02pm
    Half of nothing is still nothing
    TREBOR
    10th May 2019
    8:56pm
    Very good, OM - I've had it and lost it, at last count about six times... now I'm even......
    Farside
    10th May 2019
    10:24pm
    Isn't that a good thing Old Man if you are a glass half-full kind of guy? Or is that glass half empty?
    David
    10th May 2019
    3:24pm
    I wholeheartedly agree with the dialogue thus far, particularly from Snagglepuss & Rocky2 for their comments. I bet many people did not realise that a National Welfare Fund was specifically established to pay for a universal age pension by substantially increasing a person’s taxload. It was not until years later that the Federal Govt couldn’t resist getting their greedy hands on it by moving it into consolidated revenue. Over the past 15+ years the Govt has now shifted the onus on taxpayers to fund most, if not all of their retirement out of their savings via super & other means. I, like countless others rightly feel ripped off having paid their 7+% increase in tax as a premium only to be told you cannot access the ‘policy’ on retirement. That is theft on a gigantuous proportion & continues to this day. Like others, my wife & I had cement floors in our home, borrowed carpet, sheets for curtains, no child endowment/ family tax benefits or baby bonus, high interest rates, insecure employment & yet we just managed. I would like to see how many of today’s Millennials would cope without all of these handouts which they see as an entitlement. I could go on & on with what we witness each day (dining out, fast food, the latest in fashion, jet skis, boats, palatial houses with everything that opens & shuts & mostly all on credit or borrowing against any actual collateral. This country is in big trouble.
    TREBOR
    10th May 2019
    8:58pm
    That is why people are so concerned about the government slavering over the 3 TRILLION invested in super... their first thought is - Nirvana awaits our endless budgeting to suit our mates first... all out stupid and self-created problems can be paid off in one go!

    Show Me The Money!!
    Farside
    10th May 2019
    10:32pm
    David, would you be so keen for today's workers to contribute taxes to support pensions at the same rate they did in the 1950s and 1960s?

    Rest assured the reason few care about the myth of the NWF contributions is that this was never enough to cover payments from the fund. Winding it up simply eliminated an accounting headache.

    The Centre for Independent Studies says "Pensioners are demanding so much support from taxpayers that the generational "bargain" between retired and working Australians is becoming unbalanced."

    https://www.cis.org.au/publications/research-reports/the-myths-of-the-generational-bargain
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/todays-pensioners-are-demanding-too-much-from-taxpayers-20160301-gn7e6g.html
    mr.auspicious
    10th May 2019
    3:29pm
    To the best of my knowledge there is " safety net " which provides funding for older
    citizens with insufficient means in retirement. It's called the seniors pension and
    it's means tested.
    Those who don't satisfy the means test or who prefer to fund their retirement
    independently, are obliged to make other arrangements. Previous governments offered
    fiscal incentives to these taxpayers, as compensation for the reduction in the tax burden
    to future generations. To call this an " obsession " is patently absurd as the economic
    benefits flow on to ALL taxpayers. Mention of " right wing plots " is indicative that the
    author has completely lost the plot in a similar fashion to the group of political
    reprobates who are seeking a mandate to introduce punitive and discriminatory fiscal
    measures that will impact self funded retirees.
    Take a bow Bill Shorten and Chris Bowen for dishonestly portraying self funded retirees as
    a wealthy, privileged group who have relentlessly exploited tax loopholes....
    Shorten and Bowen must be held accountable for repeated disingenuous assertions that
    retirees in receipt of tax refunds derived from surplus franking credits, pay no tax.
    The irrefutable fact is that any tax refund is not a taxpayer funded gratuity as ATO never
    issue refunds until an existing tax liability has been extinguished. Both Shorten and Bowen
    have had ample opportunity to clarify the issue with ATO but have remained intransigent.
    Perhaps the pertinent facts contradict the preferred populist agenda.

    Voters at next weeks election would be wise to question Bowen's competence to
    efficiently and effectively manage the country's fiscal affairs. What's at stake here is
    the country's future economic performance in the real world which will determine future
    living standards.....
    Sundays
    10th May 2019
    8:01pm
    The ATO implements Government policy, they do not work in isolation. The policy to refund Franking credits to self managed super funds in pension mode who pay no tax was introduced by John Howard in 2000. It does not affect all SFR and disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

    The ATO implement a raft of taxation policies set by Government including the tax rates and various rebates and offsets that can be changed by the Government of the day at any time provided they have support to change the Legislation.
    Captain
    11th May 2019
    3:26pm
    Sundays, I still come back to the same argument - why will aged pensioners receive the franking credits and SFR's will not receive the Credits?
    Farside
    11th May 2019
    9:46pm
    Captain, you probably already know the answer ... politics says pensioners will have no reduction in income whereas SFRs have assets they can spend to maintain quality of life (if they choose).

    The reality is the refunds paid to pensioners should also be removed for the same reason removed from SFRs but unfortunately this is easier said than done. I suspect these will be removed coincident with the next step wise increase in the pension to minimise griping from the pensioners.
    Troubadour
    10th May 2019
    3:36pm
    Yes we have worked for our Pensions and brought up children who
    are now valued members of society and working hard. Many of us do a variety of voluntary work in the Community - lightening the burden of paying someone to do the same job. My husband and I have been doing volunteer work, even before we retired and still do at over 76 years of age.
    spud
    10th May 2019
    3:38pm
    Has anyone considered the contribution made by older ozzie who work as volunteers. Many organisation could not function if not for the contribution of older ozzies. We older ozzies make a great difference by the hours we provide by volunteering.
    Mad as Hell
    10th May 2019
    3:56pm
    Don’t appreciate being called a “leaner”.
    I “had a go” and had my part pension cut/stolen by the LNP and Greens.
    beyond caring
    10th May 2019
    4:25pm
    " Labor does not want to stop iron exports" joke .... Joyce..... Labor will do whatever the Greens tell them to do. For Labor is about power .. no not the stuff to turn on lights ... POWER... they need the Greens to gain power .... so they do whatever they are told to do.

    Our nation appreciates what older Australian have done ... once again Joke ... of cause it doesn't... it's all about how hard the modern he & she and how the poor things have to work so hard now ... how else will they pay for their 4 wheel drives- flash houses - updated mobiles - etc etc.. not like us lazy older Aussie mum that use to stay home and look after the kids...
    inextratime
    10th May 2019
    4:30pm
    I worked until I was 67 and the employer who I had worked for 18 years suggested I should leave the company. I was working as hard as ever and the only reason for leaving was office politics. Eventually I was forced to leave as life became totally unbearable. Thought of legal action but was advised that it would be very expensive and the companies pockets were much deeper than mine.
    TREBOR
    10th May 2019
    9:00pm
    Man, are you? In the service industries? What was your lady manager's name?
    inextratime
    10th May 2019
    4:30pm
    I worked until I was 67 and the employer who I had worked for 18 years suggested I should leave the company. I was working as hard as ever and the only reason for leaving was office politics. Eventually I was forced to leave as life became totally unbearable. Thought of legal action but was advised that it would be very expensive and the companies pockets were much deeper than mine.
    mr.auspicious
    10th May 2019
    4:59pm
    mate - everyone has a " use by " date. As far as full time employment is concerned I
    reached mine in my early 40s. While working as a contractor discovered the
    stock market and despite the market volatility, banking royal commissions
    and the like, I've never had any previous cause to complain.....

    Do I miss the bullshit associated with workplace politics and idiots who
    value style over substance .... it's a no brainer !!!!

    Do I appreciate politicians promoting a devious, dishonest and discriminatory
    agenda designed to curtail a somewhat fortunate but honestly derived standard
    of retirement.... may their future political aspirations evaporate as quickly
    as wealth dissipates during a market correction......
    Believer
    10th May 2019
    4:54pm
    I worked on a paper round from the age of 11 delivering papers every morning at 5am, then putting rounds out before delivering rounds. Then I left school at 15 and started full time work but when it came to getting my English pension it had to go from 18 year old. So lost full pension and only received part of the 37 years of work. How wrong is that?
    Farside
    10th May 2019
    10:52pm
    what is the point you are attempting to make Believer - that UK did not recognise you paper round when it came to calculating your pension?
    Mandy
    10th May 2019
    5:09pm
    Life is a journey and we are all somewhere along the road. None of us stay young forever. Not all are fortunate enough to reach old age but I am sure that there are not many young ones who would willingly choose not to try. So I suggest to those still young enough, to strive to work towards making the world a place where they would like to enjoy their retirement rather than trying to make it worse for those who are trying to make the best of what they have got. Otherwise they may inherit a future generation who want to pull the rug from under their feet.
    Farside
    10th May 2019
    10:55pm
    well said Mandy. Looking forward and making the best of the cards dealt while striving to make the world better for our grandchildren, what can be wrong with that?
    Dide
    10th May 2019
    5:55pm
    I think the difference is that we never felt entitled to anything. That if we were able we had to provide for ourselves and our future. Young people today feel very entitled. But there may be nothing left for them if they destroy our economy.
    Farside
    10th May 2019
    11:04pm
    You are probably right Dide however I think you missed the point that many in the Gen Y and subsequent generations feel the boomers and X Gens have exploited and consumed more than their fair share of resources. If anybody has destroyed our economy it is us by embracing short term thinking and combative political ideologies rather than pursuing a shared long term vision for betterment of all.
    older&wiser
    11th May 2019
    1:50pm
    Totally agree with you Dide....
    I have just lost a much valued younger friend, because her whole existence was geared towards how much she was 'entitled' to get. In a high paying job, but how much tax rebates she was 'entitled' to. How much child care rebates she was 'entitled' to. Even down to how much power bill assistance she can be 'entitled' to. She would actually structure her salary to make it lower so as to get her 'entitlements'. Plus huge credit card debt, even saying she was 'entitled' to live well. The notion of actually working to support yourself, was never a consideration.
    After supporting them with the occasional assistance, I calmly spoke to her, giving her some tips on how I survived and managed (single, low paying jobs, now on Aged Pension, minimal super). Well - the volcano erupted and I was put in my place.
    And unfortunately, this is not a once off.
    Aussie focussed
    10th May 2019
    5:58pm
    The welfare dollar only goes so far. WHY does both parties especially Labor FORGET the aged and the genuine unemployed?!! Their pensions are BELOW the poverty line yet that is not increased to a proper level. Men and women live in horrible accomadation, housing waiting lists are huge, Australians are suffering and yet MORE overseas welfare is being imported AND more besides with so called family reunions and the like. Enough please, Australians first
    Charlie
    10th May 2019
    6:04pm
    Depends on how Australian society chooses to use their knowledge and skills. It doesn't.
    Kosmo
    10th May 2019
    8:02pm
    Burden! WTF@@@@@@@ I come to Australia in 1969 with an IT job! I have worked all my life! I’m 78 and I’m still working! Everyone is putting the finger on us! Burden! I tell you something, some people, who doesn’t want to work
    And think they have the right to everything on their plate! They are the Burden!!!!!
    TREBOR
    10th May 2019
    9:04pm
    Let's not forget the carers.... the carers.... all on a pittance or for free ...

    Get rid of those old bastards who care for their ex or current spouse or a disabled child or whatever, and think how many jobs could be created for young people in the paid carer industries?

    Trouble is - who's going to pay for it?
    Farside
    10th May 2019
    11:12pm
    Trebor, the reality is getting rid of those " who care for their ex or current spouse or a disabled child or whatever" will do little to improve their lot. From what I hear it is not easy to obtain a support package and if you are unsuccessful then it's an even bigger challenge in finding a provider.
    casper dude
    10th May 2019
    9:44pm
    Remember, those who think we are a burden now, will one day be a burden themselves. They don't think of that. This has been a decades old comment about older citizens. I certainly don't think I am a burden. I worked from age 16 to 60 and saved for my pension, looked after my health, keep well and enjoy life.
    musicveg
    10th May 2019
    11:20pm
    The true burden is the retired pollies who get a huge pension and do not need it with all their wealth, never asset tested. This is what is ruining this country, too many perks for the few who think they are entitled. Can't wait for the next generation to make drastic changes.
    mrswong
    10th May 2019
    11:32pm
    I am now a great grandmother of 3 soon to be 5 on a single pension and surviving is a constant battle luckily I have a generous daughter who makes sure I don't want for anything but pity those who do not have this added benefit why through no fault of out own are we placed in this predicament
    sunnyOz
    11th May 2019
    1:56pm
    Mrswong - then you are lucky. I have one daughter, who is literally counting the days she can get her hands on my estate. I gave her a good home and education, but she chose to live a gypsy life of travel, having 2 kids to 2 fathers, living homeless, and living on welfare. Even now, 17 years after I last gave her a cent - she is asking for support, which I refuse to give. At all. Her hand is ALWAYS out for more. I now struggle to survive on the single Aged Pension, and I know, even if I make a will of where I want my estate to go to, she will contest it.
    musicveg
    11th May 2019
    2:06pm
    Sadly SunnyOz there are many like yourself, I would set it up to go to charity or sell up and spend it on yourself, you could always use the money to pay rent in advance.
    Captain
    12th May 2019
    6:44pm
    I know that I started work at 16 as a 1st year trainee 300 klm away from any relative that I knew or people that I grew up with. For the next 47 years I worked, married, bought up a family saved for our future and educated myself beyond what I ever thought I could achieve (Bachelor of Accounting).

    So I really do not worry what my peers or younger folk think about older people.

    I, my family and friends know what I have achieved, the same as I know what they have achieved and I applaud them. The same as I would applaud those in younger generations that pull themselves up by their bootstraps and achieve more than what they thought they were capable of achieving.

    Our parents were usually low educated folk who had been through the worst Depression ever recorded and the Second World War and still managed to generally do better than their parents and grandparents.

    Did we think any less of them? In my case they were people to be emulated rather than denigrated.

    Don't listen to the popular media as they are contributing to the idea of us and them and our idiot politicans are fuelling the fire.
    Dragrush
    12th May 2019
    11:02pm
    Rocky 2 .....I liked your history report and agree with nearly all you have said .....it would seem that Malcom Fraser and Philip Lynch cut the guts out of the future fund and should be held in disgrace for it./ In WA , the Labour govt under Brian Burke and David Parker did much the same thing .......no wonder our national debt is over $550 billion and still rising. Wont stop until the chinese own half of Australia.
    Farside
    13th May 2019
    3:16am
    Dragrush, it would be unfair to hold Fraser and Lynch responsible for the demise of the National Welfare Fund (the Future Fund is still alive). They may have put the nail in the coffin and buried it but the wee beastie was dead in the water more than a decade before when its structural flaws were recognised and acknowledged. The Fund at the stage was just an accounting headache for Treasury.

    Burke and Parker were a different order of ratbag altogether and should not be compared to Fraser and Lynch.

    And as for debt, $550B is comfortable for an economy the size of Australia; the debt:gdp is less than most of the OECD and a big chunk of the debt is denominated in A$. There are bigger problems to worry about than net debt.