Elderly targeted in Coalition’s $553 million pork barrel play

Government proposes spending up big on aged care services.

aged care boost

Elderly Australians are among those singled out by the major parties for some serious pork barrelling ahead of next year’s Federal Election.

On Monday, the Coalition announced it would be shelling out $553 million extra for aged and home care services, with total spending in the sector expected to reach a record $23.5 billion in 2021-22.

The announcement by Treasurer Josh Frydenberg included bringing forward the release of 10,000 home care packages for older Australians needing high-level support.

The largesse will be made possible by a better-than-expected Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook (MYEFO). Treasury said it had collected $8.3 billion more than it forecast in tax receipts for the first half.

It is forecasting a reduction of almost 60 per cent in the deficit to $5.2 billion for this financial year, with expectations of reporting a surplus of $4.1 billion in the next.

The MYEFO statement said: “An additional $287.3 million has been provided to bring forward by one year to 2018-19 the release of 5000 level 3 and 5000 level 4 home care packages to connect more older Australians with high-level home care support.

“The Government is also providing $56.4 million to assist people in home care by reducing the maximum basic daily fee service providers can charge.

“In addition, the Government will provide $111.2 million to increase the residential aged care viability and homeless supplements by 30 per cent to support people in residential aged care in regional, rural and remote areas of Australia and those at risk of homelessness.

“The Government has established a Royal Commission into Aged Care Quality and Safety to examine the quality and safety of care provided to senior Australians in residential and home-based aged care and to young Australians with disabilities living in aged care.

“The Government will provide $104.3 million over four years from 2018-19 for the royal commission and $17.2 million over two years from 2018-19 to the Department of Health, the Australian Aged Care Quality Agency and the Australian Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission to support activities associated with the royal commission.”

Other initiatives signalled include an extra $98 million to improve access to GPs in residential aged care facilities and establishing a new National Elder Abuse Hotline.

The extra spending was flagged days after Labor committed to a long list of beefed up support for the aged care sector. On the first day of the party’s national conference on Sunday, it pledged to:

  • support appropriate aged care funding that protects and maintains employment standards with proper regard to relevant industrial instruments
  • protect, maintain and support employment standards and training models to enhance job security and minimise the spread of casualised and insecure work
  • support a positive focused professional registration and accreditation scheme for employees
  • ensure a base level of funding for aged care alongside consumer-directed care

  • develop best practice standards and accreditation of supports in consultation with stakeholders so quality controls are established, maintained and properly funded
  • maintain a high minimum standard of quality care, underpinned by adequate staffing levels with the appropriate mix of skills
  • support the right to fair, sustainable, quality care services appropriate to their needs
  • provide access to a greater choice of support and care arrangements, and control who provides these and the terms on which they are provided
  • make it easier navigate the aged care system in order to obtain the care they need
  • provide equity of access to services for different population groups
  • provide open and transparent information and data on facilities, services and staffing
  • increase accountability of tax payer funding provided to all aged care facilities and services, including not-for-profits and private providers.

Do you think the Government’s planned spending on aged care services will go far enough? If not, what would you propose?

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    COMMENTS

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    18th Dec 2018
    10:18am
    Some truth please Olga. Your statement; "The extra spending was flagged days after Labor committed to a long list of beefed up support for the aged care sector. On the first day of the party’s national conference on Sunday"

    The statement by the Treasurer was made on Monday, the day after Labor made a few statements, not "days" and your inference is that it was a reaction to Labor's statements. If that was to be accepted as truth then the government has done a magnificent job in putting together such a detailed response in less than 24 hours.

    If you dig into what Labor has promised, there are a lot of motherhood-statements with very little substance. There is a number of aged care facilities that need to be closed and there are thousands more staffed by wonderful, caring staff which should be allowed to carry on doing what everybody perceives as the standard.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    10:59am
    The only lack of substance is from the government which now intends to buy back the very people it has come after with a vengeance never before seen in this country.
    Labor? Of course you would tear down anything Labor does. That's what rusted ons and cash for comment trolls do.
    ray from Bondi
    18th Dec 2018
    11:11am
    I agree with Mick, this liberal governments speciality is taking from the poor and giving to the rich, they also seem to be good at cooking the books, the surplus is being fixed by stealing from the future fund, I have always wondered what that was about it looks like the future is here now, and can not understand why this is not being mentioned on the media, oh that is right this is the government and not the ABC or the libs.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    11:32am
    The right wing media plug their man ray. One can already see the bias playing out and the stories, WHICH RE NEWS, being avoided.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    12:11pm
    As usual, MICK, you have skimmed through what I wrote (or didn't listen to the person reading it to you) and didn't grasp the substance. I accused Olga of sensationalising by trying to mislead. I also stated that Labor has made no actual policy statements, just a load of thoughts about what they might create a review on. My only comment about the government was a touch of sarcasm about how magnificently they put together such a complex set of policies given that, according to Olga, they did it all in less than 24 hours. I note that your union bully boy tactics are to the fore MICK, attacking the messenger, not the substance of the message.

    Ray from Bondi, you have the same mindset as MICK, loads of baseless accusations, not a skerrick of reason to support your abusive remarks, no definition of who is "rich", a defamatory statement that the government is doing something illegal with the figures presented in a public document and making false accusations about moving funds from the future fund. Perhaps the reason that the media hasn't mentioned all of that is that it is a lie.
    Adrianus
    18th Dec 2018
    12:33pm
    I agree with Old Man, regardless of what you call it. "Pork Barrelling, Largesse" or in the case of bland statements by Labor, "beefed up support," its a good thing right?
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    1:48pm
    The normal propaganda from the usual suspects. The election is well and truly on.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    3:50pm
    Very biased article. It's not 'pork barrelling'. It's recognizing an urgent need and responsibly allocating funds to address that need because it is rightly considered a high priority.

    Labor is bribing pensioner and lying through their teeth to push a patently unfair franking credit policy, claiming savings that are clearly impossible because they are NOT taking anything from the people they claim are the problem, and they are ignoring the fact that their figures are way out of date and the problem they claim has already been addressed. Why is their bribing not branding ''pork barrelling''? Or is it only ''pork barrelling'' when it's honest and responsible?

    I have no time for the LNP, and I want ousted, but there is no merit in criticizing either party for doing what is responsible and right. YLC owes it's members far more honest and fair reporting.

    The LNP would have to go a lot further to even begin to sway me in their favour, but Labor has blotted its copy book way beyond any hope of repair with its dishonesty and unfairness, and disgraceful bribery to win support.

    Well done, LNP, paying attention to the needs of the frail aged. Aged care is inadequate and should be at the top of our priorities list. Politics should not enter into this discussion. It should be about ensuring our frail aged have proper care.
    Misty
    18th Dec 2018
    6:04pm
    Here we go again, doesn't matter what the topic OGR cannot help but rant and rave about Franking Credits, give us a break please.
    Greg
    18th Dec 2018
    7:23pm
    Misty - Amen
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    9:37pm
    It's a very significant policy and it's VERY likely to cost them an election win. If not, and it gets through, it's VERY likely to do massive damage to the economy and society.

    I can't find any evidence of Labor having any other policy even worth mentioning.
    Greg
    18th Dec 2018
    9:44pm
    Guess what OGR not everyone has franking credits to worry about, in fact there are more elderly people WITHOUT dividend paying shares then there are with - it's a non issue for many, many people.
    ex PS
    19th Dec 2018
    7:56am
    Franking Credits aren't the only device that can be used to increase fund productivity, I would question the business acumen of anyone who would see their portfolio ruined by one change to the governments taxation policy. I currently enjoy Franking Credits, but if they go by the wayside I will take steps to reorganize my modest portfolio to counteract the loss, that is what investing is all about.
    I would never vote for a political party again that refused to put any policies forward before an election and relied on three word slogans, bribery and lies. I would also consider very carefully before voting for a political party that puts winning an election above ensuring the integrity of the members.
    Anonymous
    19th Dec 2018
    8:12am
    It's only a non-issue, Greg, for those too ignorant or too selfish to understand the harm it threatens to the economy as a whole - and most of all to those without dividend-paying shares. Greed, selfishness, and envy is blinding those who don't benefit from past efforts to arrange their affairs so they can be at least partly self-supporting, and cheap bribes are winning the votes of the greedy who have it both ways, but sadly those who won't be directly hurt are both too self-centred and too dumb to see through a mass of Labor lies and idiotic justifications and see how harmful the policy is and what it will ultimately mean for society.

    Misty is even peddling Labor's most pathetically idiotic justification - 'No other country has our policy'. NO. And no other country has our tax system or our aged pension system either. Most don't have our health system. Why don't we copy ALL their stupid failed ideas instead of selecting just a few? Better still, why don't we copy some of their BETTER ideas, instead of the ones that made their suffering during the GFC much worse than ours? Good grief! The Labor idiots can't even come up with a truthful reason for their policy. It was touted first with blatant lies and outdated data, and when they were caught out there they bribed pensioners and told more lies, and then they finally resorted to ''DUH. We's coppyin' other countries 'cause we's too stupid to have an original thought".

    Everyone with a brain is concerned about the policy - whether it impacts them directly or not. Because everyone with a brain knows that destroying the value of work and saving, killing off investment that drives growth and jobs and tax revenue, and creating a society of leaners by demolishing the benefit of striving is a recipe for disaster. And when that disaster comes, the selfish elderly ''WITHOUT dividend paying shares'', relying on the public purse for their food and shelter, will have NOWHERE TO GO. There won't be anybody to pay their bills for them.

    But you and Misty keep on with your nastiness, cheering seeing good people (who DO rely on dividends to reduce YOUR CHILDREN'S TAX BILL by being self-supporting) suffering.
    And when those good people do the only thing they can do and shed their assets and join the pensioner brigade, you go tell your children why they have to pay more tax because the total cost of the OAP just skyrocketed; why the retirement age has to rise again and pension benefits have to be reduced; and why jobs are much harder to find and businesses are closing down because investment is all going off shore.

    EVERYONE who isn't either dumb or utterly selfish - or both - is worried about the policy. Who owns shares and who doesn't has nothing to do with whether it's an issue or not. Only who is too self-absorbed to care about the harm it threatens or too stupid to examine the true facts and recognize the damage it will do.
    Anonymous
    19th Dec 2018
    8:16am
    Forgot to add that along with ''we's copycats 'cause we's too stupid to have an original idea'', Labor's grand leader is proudly announcing

    "I don't care what evidence is presented of how much harm this policy will do or how wrong it is, I'm gonna remain stubbornly stuck to it and refuse to listen to anyone, 'cause I'm too stupid and too arrogant to understand that good leaders listen and consider and modify their ideas based on sensible feedback.''

    And this is the attitude you and Misty cheer, Greg? God help you both!
    Sundays
    19th Dec 2018
    8:24am
    OGR, Labor’s policies on health, Medicare, education, cracking down on labour hire firms, equal pay for women working in child care and aged care, ensuring employers pay superannuatio, energy policies etc. these are the things which most voters will look at. Not changes to Franking Credits. I’m also certain that most SFR would prefer a review of the Asset thresholds and the deeming rates. It’s an important issue to you. We get it, but eneough now.
    Sundays
    19th Dec 2018
    8:36am
    Also, I agree with ex PS, affected retirees will re jig their investmens, or just be happy they get dividends. It’s illgogical to think they will ALL end up on the OAP.
    Adrianus
    19th Dec 2018
    9:17am
    "I currently enjoy Franking Credits, but if they go by the wayside I will take steps to reorganize my modest portfolio to counteract the loss, that is what investing is all about."

    Why not counteract the loss now? Why wait? Ye old faithful dog is waiting for a bone huh?
    Anonymous
    19th Dec 2018
    11:33am
    For the hundredth time, Sundays - it's NOT all about affected SFRs. It's about the economy and the hideous harm that will be done by removing the incentive to invest in the growth of Australian businesses. A major advisory group today released a report highlighting the predicted movement from Australians shares to International. That will have a major impact on the Australian economy as a whole.

    The other motive for my opposition is the extreme dishonesty and hypocrisy. It is definitely NOT about the economy, much less about fairness, so clearly there is a hidden sinister political agenda.

    The options for rejigging investments are very limited and many will be forced onto pensions. International shares do not typically offer equivalent income yields, and foreign tax paid isn't claimable when in pension mode. Property is difficult for people with marginal assets because you can't sell a little bit of an investment house when you need cash. Unless people have very sophisticated investment knowledge they will not be able to rejig to make up their losses. Financial advisers are telling people they simply don't have any answers. That's why there is so much opposition to the policy.

    As for being happy with dividends... try taking a cut of 30% of income when you already have less than the aged pension, no security, and no concessions and see if you are ''happy''. I get that it doesn't matter to many who aren't directly affected. That's the problem with retirees. Utter selfishness. ''Doesn't hurt me so I couldn't give a stuff... but don't you DARE denigrate pensioners or support any measure that might hurt them. They are the elite, and they get to abuse, insult, and wish hurt others and tell others to shut up about an issue if it isn't one that bothers them.

    No wonder Australia is in such a bad state when people are so self-obsessed and uncaring. And to think those who are being utterly self-obsessed are supported by the taxes of those who will be hurt and those of their children. How disgustingly ungrateful can you be?
    Anonymous
    19th Dec 2018
    12:56pm
    And in any case, Sundays, it's not about Labor or Liberal. I have no time for either party. But it's entirely possible for intelligent people - people with respect and integrity - to recognize wrongs, actively oppose policies, and offer support to people who are threatened with hurt by a policy - WITHOUT being disloyal to their preferred political party or abandoning their traditional political allegiances.

    In fact, it would be extremely SENSIBLE for Labor voters to caution their party leaders about policy decisions that are likely to incur a heavy support cost.

    Mick is a strong Labor supporter, but he has been critical of Labor's FC policy and shown courtesy and respect in response to posts highlighting the harm it threatens. He recognizes that Labor could be shooting itself in the foot, and that Labor supporters are more likely to be given a hearing on the subject than known opponents. It's also a fact that pensioners expressing disgust at the wrongful discrimination favouring them would be more likely to lead to a rethink than complaints of unfairness from SFRs. Pensioners scream if accused of selfishness, but they ARE being utterly selfish on this issue.

    I stand up for pensioners at every opportunity, despite not being one. I stand up for the unemployed, although Newstart doesn't affect me. The problem here is that self-obsession dominates - so much so that those who continue to attack me can't consider the overall impact of the policy on the nation's economy and society, but constantly focus on who is directly impacted and who isn't - as if it should matter if people had the integrity to focus on community and society.

    Yes, a review of asset thresholds would be nice, but despite having claimed to oppose the LNP's cruel changes, Labor has been adamant that it will not address this issue. It can't even commit to addressing the inadequacy of Newstart - only to a lengthy and costly ''inquiry'' (and such inquiries are usually conducted by academic idiots who have never lived in the real world). But it's no wonder the country is in trouble of people focus on policies that impact them personally to the exclusion of those that drive economic conditions over the medium to long term.

    We are told, from research, that Labor's DI policy will reduce retiree spending by 5-6%, which represents a massive loss of indirect tax revenue and growth stimulus that creates jobs and drives revenue growth. We also know it will result in a significant transfer of investment from local to foreign shares - further reducing growth and jobs and thus tax revenue. We also know, from common logic if not research, that affected retirees whose incomes fall below acceptable levels will transfer to pensions and cost the nation a lot more, and since the policy ONLY affects lower income retirees and lower income earners, it's obvious that almost all of any claimed savings - and likely much much more - will be spent compensating losers through pensions and higher aged care costs.

    And finally, we know that there can be minimal savings because the public statement was that 53% of FC refunds go to retirees with more than $2.4 mil in super, and that sector of the community retains their benefit under Labor, so the whole policy would appear to STUPIDLY POINTLESS and causing grave harm for no reason at all - unless there is a sinister political motive that Labor wants kept secret.
    Sundays
    19th Dec 2018
    1:07pm
    I’m not a pensioner, I’ve taken hits due to changes in government policies. I’m like many others. What do you think those poor people with all their money on cash are doing. They get less interest than the deemed income. I don’t agree with the policy, bu then there are other policies I disagree with as well. You say you have written to Minsters. Well I hope your tone is less confrontational, or you won’t be taken seriously. No, I would never denigrate Pensioners. Whereas that is what all your posts do. However, my point is that voters as a whole will make their decisions based on a lot of factors. Im still paying tax, and probably paid more in my 50years of work than you did, so what. I’m happy knowing that it funds government services including pensions. You’re the one who is self obsssed turning every topic into a single issue
    Anonymous
    20th Dec 2018
    7:49am
    I was among those 'poor people with all their money in cash' for many years, Sundays - until I was able to persuade a partner with severe C-PTSD, paranoid fear of the system, and major trust issues due to suffering horrendous injustice to consider an alternative and try to trust an adviser. Well that hasn't worked out well at all. If you had any idea just how personally devastating this whole affair is and why, you and some others here might consider being a little kinder. No. I doubt it.

    I was also very vocal in opposition to the assets test change, though it didn't affect me. I've been very vocal on other issues also - many of which don't affect me. I've certainly been very vocal in defence of pensioners, particularly in response to OG's denigration. I did not EVER denigrate pensioners until I witnessed the most appalling greed and selfishness in their comments and was attacked for pointing out unfairness. But to be clear, I believe the majority of pensioners are hard working, honest, decent people entitled to respect. I just think it's a very sad reflection of their self-obsession or ignorance that SOME of them can't show the same respect for people who support themselves, and that they have a perception that they have some sort of superior entitlement. And I believe the media and politicians encourage this self-obsession and hatred of people who've done better in order to drive support for harmful political policies that encourage dependency - dependency that will ultimately destroy our economy if it isn't curbed, because quite clearly we cannot afford the high and rising cost of welfare. Society should be cheering and rewarding people who battle to be self-sufficient in retirement, not destroying everything they worked for.

    I'm sorry that I see the extreme dangers of Labor's policy, and I struggle to understand how anyone can think it acceptable that the same folk who lost up to $12K a year just months ago should lose countless thousands more per year, while the rest of society is making very small contribution - or none - to the budget deficit. But the rest of Labor's policies and everything the Greens claim to stand for becomes insignificant in my view when his gross hypocrisy, dishonesty, unfair attitude, and disregard for the value of work is exposed. And I will continue to speak out wherever I can to highlight the extreme dangers of totally destroying the value of work and responsible living.

    I am quite happy for FAIR tax to fund government services, including pensions. I am NOT willing to accept for an instant that people who paid more than their share, and are saving the nation tens of thousands every year, should forfeit their savings and have their standard of living destroyed to fund pensions, and I think any pensioner who endorses doing that is utterly disgusting - greedy and selfish in the extreme. And I'll continue to say so without apology to anyone. If the cap fits, wear it.
    Anonymous
    20th Dec 2018
    9:28am
    BTW. Sundays. I am never confrontational until I meet with nastiness, dishonesty, gross unfairness or gross disrespect. Then I reserve the right to be as confrontational as the offence demands.

    And as for paying more tax than me - you probably did. But I can guarantee you didn't suffer the unfairness and persecution I did, nor the endless pain it caused.
    ex PS
    23rd Dec 2018
    11:17am
    Adrianus, why don't I react to proposed Franking Credit changes now? Because I am an investor, not a speculator. I react to real risk, I do not jump at shadows and risk my capital be cause of hysterical speculation. Once I know for sure what the Franking Credit changes will be and how they will effect my investments I will formulate a plan. I do not take much notice of fortune tellers or government sponsored stooges.
    Anonymous
    23rd Dec 2018
    5:52pm
    Advisers are cautioning investors NOT to react yet. Adrianus. Firstly, Labor might not win office. Secondly, they might see sense and modify the proposal, recognizing how unpopular it is - particularly when there is more publicity of the findings of the public inquiry. Thirdly. there is a good chance they won't get it through the Senate in it's current form, if at all. It IS patently unfair and economically a disaster and it's likely Senators will recognize that reality. And finally, there are predictions that investors will see some bonus franking credits just before it takes effect - if it does and advisers are saying shareholders should hang in there for that. Not sure I understand fully how the latter works, but I do see it as very likely that Labor will fail to get the policy passed into law in its current form. I certainly hope there is enough intelligence and decency among politicians to recognize how wrong it is and demand changes.
    Concerned
    18th Dec 2018
    10:18am
    Possibly not as the list for home care was over 100,000. Also it depends very much on what they will fund. Present AFCI funding excludes much such as allowing a physio to actually assist and maintain walking in an aged care facility or a speech Pathologist to work on communication
    Rae
    18th Dec 2018
    11:48am
    Yes Health services are now off the list for Health Insurance as well leaving only the Sickness Industry services. Calling it Health Insurance when it is Illness and Injury Insurance is propaganda.

    I expect in old age to have to pay for nursing and other services. If the Government ever gave me some assistance I'd be astounded. I got that $900 and that's about it.
    GeorgeM
    18th Dec 2018
    12:14pm
    Glad you pointed out the massive waiting list. In fact many agencies do not add to the waiting lists any more due to these having become too long!

    Interesting, but expected, that this shifty new Treasurer does not describe the size of the problem (e.g. waiting lists) while claiming to reduce it a bit here and a bit there. The Royal Commission is also forcing their hands, besides the looming election.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    4:45pm
    Lucky you to. get the $900, Rae. I had $0 income at the time so somehow the Labor Govt figured that meant I didn't need anything. Apparently if forced to eat fresh air, you are deemed not to need food

    18th Dec 2018
    10:20am
    This is what LNP governments do best . Manage the finances well, create surpluses and give back to the community
    The other mob just spend up big leaving the country with huge deficits that the LNP then has to fix
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    11:05am
    Labor left debt of $148 billion DURING THE GFC YEARS.

    LNP has debt of $513 billion according to the ATO, all incurred during post GFC years when economies have been on the mend worldwide.

    Heavy spending? Judge for yourself. The figures do not lie! You do.
    ray from Bondi
    18th Dec 2018
    11:13am
    yep once again you a have hit the nail on the head the debt is higher than ever but do you hear anything about the silence from the right wing media is leaving me with hearing problems :)
    Mad as Hell
    18th Dec 2018
    11:23am
    The LNP are good with election promises, remember Tony Abbotts 2013 election promise.

    On the eve of the 2013 federal election Tony Abbott tells the SBS there will be "no cuts to education, no cuts to health, no change to pensions, no change to the GST and no cuts to the ABC or SBS" under a Coalition government.
    Rae
    18th Dec 2018
    11:50am
    Abbott lied a lot. Nobody believes anything he says now bar the rusted on LNP team supporters in their bluets and all.
    Karl Marx
    18th Dec 2018
    12:08pm
    What surplus please explain, current government are good at managing keeping the poor poorer & the rich richer.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    12:15pm
    You're getting closer, MICK, at least you have dropped the mythical $600B lie that you have been known to spread. The link with the nett figures is below to refresh your memory. If you want to quote the ATO gross figure then have the decency to also quote the ATO gross figure on what Labor left when put out of office.

    https://theconversation.com/factcheck-has-australias-net-debt-doubled-under-the-current-government-100819
    GeorgeM
    18th Dec 2018
    12:23pm
    What LNP Govts (especially the current since Abbott) do best is to attack people in the middle (e.g. part-pensioners) and lower level, while handing out big tax cuts to the rich and businesses where they have investments!

    Must always remember the Broken Promises of Abbott, as Mad as hell as noted above. He claimed a Budget Emergency behind such cuts. Now that is yet again proved to be a LIE, how about the tricky new Treasurer REVERSE ALL THOSE CUTS, including the bastardly change to the Assets Test which seriously discourages savers!

    In fact, they should go further, scrap the whole Broken Age Pension system, and implement Universal Age Pension. If they did that, I think they can claim to have done something good for the Aged with the flood of money flowing in, including getting them out of the tentacles of the Centrelink! Is Labor also listening, or are they just focused on their hand-out mentality to buy votes?
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    2:06pm
    OM - you amuse me as you continue to try and divide and conquer as well as use some pretty dodgy links to justify your employer's position.
    You might want to have a look at the debt Clock. Real time:

    http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/clocks

    As at the time of writing the federal government's debt is given as $671 trillion. A lot of dough. Cooking your books is not going to get anybody to believe you. Sorry.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    2:38pm
    See, MICK, when you can't read a set of numbers, how can you start to talk about debts. Do you realise that the numbers you want people to view are actually in the billions, not trillions? Well, if you're going to tell a lie, may as well make it a big 'un.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    3:37pm
    Net government debt in Sept 2013 - $174.5 Billion

    Net government debt in July 2018 - $346.0 Billion

    Net labor government budget deficit in 2013 - $43 billion per annum

    Net labor government debt servicing cost in 2013 - $ 5 billion per annum

    Had LnP not got in , labor debt would have been ( 174 + (43 +5 )X 6 years ) = $ 462 billion AT MINIMUM

    LnP have done well to curtail debt growth due to labor commitments with $116 billion savings
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    4:51pm
    OM - billions? Of course. That's what I said.
    I am assuming it is you posting as another character OM. Lothario? Sounds a lot like you and quoting the same net figures.
    Cook the books if you like but gross figures are the ones everybody other than you look at.

    Show me the money....the Debt Clock is now at $671 billion. Most of it on your employer's watch when there was NO GFC and the dough has been rolling in.
    Of course when you run Royal Commission after Royal Commission to try to crush your political opponents and then start handing out many tens of dollars to the top end of town you end up with the above type of figures. Disreputable lot you are! The word 'traitor' takes on a meaning all on its own.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    5:03pm
    GeorgeM, if they implemented a universal pension they could validly claim to have done a great deal of good for the country as a whole. And the party pledging would almost certainly win the election (if they could make the promise at all credible, that is!)

    Some benefits (not in any order):

    1. More spending by retirees to drive jobs and growth and increased tax revenue
    2. Fewer dependant retirees as strong incentives to be self-funded drive more responsible planning and lifestyles
    3. Better health among the aged as the stress of dealing with Centrelink is removed and people are free to spend as is best for them and their families, instead of fearing having $1 too much in savings or spending above the limit on gifts for grandchildren.
    4. More inheritances for younger folk as older folk are not deprived of their savings and ground into poverty. Younger folk can use the inheritance to buy homes, educate children, and set themselves up for their own retirement
    5. More people with money to fund their own aged care as they are not forced to divest early in retirement to achieve a living income
    6. Huge savings on Centrelink admin costs due to not having to means test aged pensions. Resources can be diverted to providing better services to the disabled, unemployed, etc.
    7. Better incentives for younger Australians to save for retirement as they see benefit rather than penalty
    8. Greater affluence among the aged likely to increase charity donations and voluntary aid to the genuinely needy, as people are no longer battling to find ways to combat political treachery but have security, which makes folk more charitable
    9. Less stress struggling to master complex investment strategies to try to survive despite cruel political games. Less stress means better health so lower health costs.
    10. Increased tax revenue by taxing wealthier retirees at fair rates, recovering the cost of paying pensions to the well off and collecting additional revenue from those with substantial private income.
    11. Improved overall social harmony as respect for seniors is restored and the ongoing competition between young and old, pensioners and self-funded is put to bed. Younger Australians know their time will come and inheritance is possible for many, so they can stop screaming about baby boomers having too much or being selfish. With everyone getting a pension, no seniors suffer loss of dignity or embarrassment and nobody can call them ''leaners'' any more. They are just retirees who have reached an age of entitlement and are being appropriately rewarded for their contribution to society.
    12. Increased investment in Australian companies to drive growth.

    It's a MAJOR WIN all round, and every intelligent politician should be pushing for it. (Is there such a thing? Sorry, I think ''intelligent politician'' an oxymoron! I know ''honest politician" is.)
    TREBOR
    18th Dec 2018
    5:14pm
    Thanks for the laugh, Loathie....
    Greg
    18th Dec 2018
    7:39pm
    Lothario - If the Libs are so great why are their figures so far out, I know it's a surplus but when you do a budget the numbers should come out even. It's just lucky the figures went the way they did, since their accounting is so crap could easily have been 8.3 billion less revenue, not so great.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    8:11pm
    Yes, the figures from the current batch have no credibility. I always have to laugh when they claim the CPI is around 2%. I better tell the supermarkets, tradesmen and government agencies about that. They clearly have not heard.
    The only word I can ever use with this government's media statements is FAKE. Just like the surplus Frydenburg claimed last night. The day after the election it'd be like Abbott's pre-election promises: shredded.
    Greg
    18th Dec 2018
    9:51pm
    MICK - i can remember just before the 2013 election Christopher Pyne was being interviewed on morning TV and he made a statement about funding for schools (i think it was schools) and he said "We've found a billion dollars". I remember saying to my wife, wow look at that they just found a billion dollars, must have been behind Christopher's couch.

    These guys just lie and lie, anything to get in - Abbott was the king of this, saying anything and everything to win the election then backtracking on many, many of his pledges.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    9:54pm
    LnP forecasts are always conservative in line with principles of good governance

    They underestimated the amount of growth and how quickly their goood economic policies impacted on jobs, GDP and corportae profitability

    Unlike Labor who had to keep updating the size of their budget deficit, from a surplus in 2013 to a $43 billion dollar hole
    GeorgeM
    19th Dec 2018
    12:07am
    Thanks, OGR, for the long list of benefits for the country (and of course Retirees) from implementing Universal Age Pension. I can't believe either major party just haven't bothered to go for it, thereby ensuring their election.

    Of course, the point here was that Liberals under Abbott (with policies implemented by Morrison) destroyed the retirement plans of 330,000 part-pensioners + the pensions altogether for another 91,000 + the pensions & concessions for tens of thousands of new retirees since Jan 2017 - a treacherous action due to Abbott's Broken Promises based on a LIE about Budget Emergency. Morrison & Frydenberg have a BIG opportunity, if they are fair dinkum, to REVERSE those Asset Test changes right now! Otherwise, they have ZERO CREDIBILITY for any of their new promises. Can't believe their FAKE Budget projections unless they can either do this and atone for their party's sins, or implement Universal Age Pension as the best alternative strategy.
    Anonymous
    19th Dec 2018
    8:01pm
    Neither Labor (and by definition Greens also) nor LNP will ever move from their absurd attachment to ''needs based welfare'' and ''the big stick'' GeorgeM. They are committed to outdated ways and they simply cannot embrace original thought. Creative and innovative ideas are 'radical' in their eyes, and must be crushed. It's so much safer to go with the tired old ways, even if they have consistently failed. They are scared of significant change.

    What we need is a new breed of politician. I have grave concerns about Clive Palmer for a lot of reasons, but at least he comes up with new ideas. He's innovative. He may not be right, but he dares to suggest trying something different. We need more who are willing to do that. And we need people to highlight the benefits of innovative policies. We need to get rid of vested interest academics who have never lived in the real world and let the PEOPLE be heard for a change.

    I would love to see YLC drive a campaign to counter Grattan Institute and put forward a report that promotes the interests of people and the wisdom of retirees, but alas it won't happen. I am considering ways to start a campaign though. My only concern is that the attitude of most here seems to be so anti SFRs and so determined to see them destroyed, that I fear anyone suggesting anything that might appear to benefit SFRs to a greater extent than pensioners will be met with strong opposition.

    SFRs are the minority among retirees, and pensioners and their champions continue to play the ''poor me - lucky you'' card with success. I note that there hasn't been a lot of support for your universal pension suggestions, sadly. But any complaint that SFRs are threatened with a raw deal and the pensioners are up in arms defending Labor and demanding withdrawal from criticising their policy, implying that SFRs have too much and therefore must have obtained it unfairly or deviously and should have to forfeit it. I see post after post ranting about pensioners having paid tax and worked hard for decades and being deserving of respect, but very little acknowledgement that SFRs also worked hard and paid tax for decades - and ARE STILL CONTRIBUTING BIG TIME - and are also deserving of respect and fairness. Then again, Shorten set out to divide and conquer, and he certainly got his strategy right. He knows exactly how to manipulate public opinion to ensure nobody can rally support to drive change that doesn't meet his and the LNP's shared objectives (and make no mistake that they share the same goals!).
    GeorgeM
    21st Dec 2018
    12:26am
    I am glad you mentioned Clive Palmer. Many interesting and sensible comments from him (not all) in his advertisements, yet I am unclear why Queenslanders don't seem to express any support for him. At least, just like One Nation, he is a change from the stranglehold of Liberal & Labor nonsense, and all need to support any possible, reasonable alternative.

    While several people have expressed support for Universal Age Pension at different points in time, I understand it is a radical change, hence many don't see immediate results from pushing for it so the majority tends to be silent. However it is important for those who understand it's benefits, compared to the current disastrous Age Pension system, to continuously push for it. By all means start a campaign, as YLC has been reluctant to do this or even gauge support via a simple poll question about this. Who knows a campaign may generate sufficient momentum to get the matter more consideration.

    As I don't expect results from any campaign immediately, I believe the first step is to break the stranglehold of the Liberal & Labor Tag Team, hence my repeated suggestions to all to vote OUT all current MPs from these (and Greens) parties by putting them LAST in preferences, using the strength of the Retirees numbers to make this effective. It may take more than one election to get them to start listening, but the start needs to be made now.
    Anonymous
    22nd Dec 2018
    2:18pm
    I agree GeorgeM. And I'll continue to urge everyone to focus on ousting both major parties and the Greens. They are a danger to society and we need to get rid of them forever. ANY independent or minor would be preferable - just as long as they don't vote on party lines but actually consider issues and try to do what's good for the nation as a whole.
    Ardnaher
    23rd Dec 2018
    8:25pm
    Has everyone forgotten in 2012 Wayne Swan declaring there would be a surplus and then had to do a complete about face and say it would not be happening.LOL
    Anonymous
    23rd Dec 2018
    8:27pm
    Wayne Swan - the world's dumbest Treasurer

    He gave us a $43 BILLION DEFICIT that year
    Retired Knowall
    24th Dec 2018
    11:46am
    If you think Swan was the worlds dumbest treasurer, wait for Labors Chris Bowan to have a go. He will make Swan look good.
    floss
    18th Dec 2018
    10:31am
    They have taken a lot off pensioners so why not return a little there is a election in the wind .LOTHARIO what the LNP do best is shoot them selves in the foot .A lot of LNP have had to resign or have court cases pending.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    11:08am
    Yes floss. They realise they need the retiree vote so putting crumbs out there in the hope voters have forgotten what the bastards have done to them.
    Naturally AFTER they'll contrive the next excuse to reverse the promises just like Abbott did. They're masters of deceit. Won't be getting my vote no matter what they say. Gone!
    TREBOR
    18th Dec 2018
    5:16pm
    I doubt they'll be getting many back onboard with their vote... a radio guy today was talking about some Liberal honcho saying something about enhancing their vote, and his view was that 'enhancing' it at the moment meant retaining what they've got left ... if they're lucky ...
    Not a Bludger
    18th Dec 2018
    10:57am
    What a snarky headline - but I suppose it is to be expected from this leftie, Getup supporting outfit.
    This Lib/Nat policy makes enormous sense and clearly demonstrates one of the Coalition’s key priorities viz. supporting further, we oldies.
    And, it is only possible because the Feds have spent the last five years beating the massive deficit left by Shorten and his labour mate ministers from the last time that he was in government.
    About time, YLC, for some credit where it is due.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    11:09am
    How much are they paying you to keep telling the same worn out lie. Read my post above and dispute the figures. You can't.

    To reiterate:

    Labor left debt of $148 billion DURING THE GFC YEARS.

    LNP has debt of $513 billion according to the ATO, all incurred during post GFC years when economies have been on the mend worldwide.
    Rae
    18th Dec 2018
    11:58am
    Remember that for when the massive public debt blows up. A budget simply switched debt from public to private. It's a structural thing.

    Seeing we have a fiat currency the attacks on self funded retirees was not necessary. It was pure political policy. The 2 billion raised was squandered on largess to the likes of Adani and mates in various new entities granted hundreds of millions.

    Lefties may spend too much on social services but it beats fascist righties spending too much on their favourites.

    Wouldn't a Centralist Democratic Party be great? A bit for them and a bit for the rest of us.
    Karl Marx
    18th Dec 2018
    12:20pm
    Getup is a great organisation with over a million members in Australia being informed on what governments & corporations are doing or trying to do.
    GetUp! is working towards a thriving democracy in Australia led by the values and hopes of everyday people.
    PEOPLE, POWER, IMPACT
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    2:10pm
    Good discussion Rae.
    1984 - despite Turnbull and the government trolls running the 'GetUp is unfair' BS the organisation consists of Australians who have had a gutful of Murdoch and the right wing propaganda grooming voters to vote Liberal. Of course that is not acceptable to the right who are of the mindset only they are born to rule.
    Its the classic battle of good vs evil. Evil owns the game but society is catching up.
    Adrianus
    19th Dec 2018
    4:03pm
    GetUp is continually campaigning to stop foreign political donations and yet they refuse to stop receiving foreign donations. Can you trust anything they say?
    Ardnaher
    22nd Dec 2018
    7:30pm
    Wow the LNP have done wonders then if they have got the debt down from $513 billion...wonderful achievement.
    Ardnaher
    22nd Dec 2018
    7:31pm
    There is a new mob just stated up called Advance Australia to counter the unbiased!!!!! "Getup"!!
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    11:03am
    I find it incredible that the LNP under 3 prime ministers has gone after retirees with a passion and now wants to bribe this community to vote for it.
    And then you have dishonest comments from the usual suspects poo-pooing Labor which has an agenda to end the one way money traffic currently going into the banks of the wealthy.

    The biggest laugh of the day yesterday was Frydenburgh claiming a surplus was coming. LNP goverments ALWAYS claim a surplus before an election as well as a fast train. The lies they they tell.
    ray from Bondi
    18th Dec 2018
    11:15am
    here here, the poor and the disadvantage have never been treated so badly while the rich and multinationals have gouged the cream, the liberal policy like banking nothing to see here it is all a labor/ABC beat up.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    12:21pm
    How has the government "gone after retirees with a passion", MICK? Howard and Costello had surplus budgets all through their stewardship so a promise from a Coalition Treasurer can be believed. Keating had a surplus budget in 1989 and no Labor Treasurer has done that ever since.
    Rae
    18th Dec 2018
    1:13pm
    Exactly so Old Man and that brilliant budget surplus added to the carnage of the 1989 to 92 banking crisis.

    A budget surplus simply transfers debt to the private sector or causes a recession every time. Those who think it's a great idea in dodgy times fail to understand that it is simply an inflation control measure.

    Australia has never defaulted on sovereign debt but a lot of people lose jobs, houses and businesses if the banks blow up through excessive borrowing.

    Howard and Costello started the private debt binge. Nothing there to be proud of. They caused ongoing revenue deficits with tax cuts and middle class welfare, sold half the gold at bottom cycle prices and generally set up the country for sale to foreign buyers.

    We got better houses and huge debts to pay for them that must now be paid back into the future with no manufacturing base to support that.

    I liked Howard and the tax cuts were great as there were no wage rises going on but he really was a hopeless economist.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    2:13pm
    On the money. OM is about as rusted on as they come although he does show some intelligence in some of his posts. Nevertheless at election time he crows the party line.

    OM - you are fully aware that Abbott and Turnbull came after retirees. Don't make out you 'have no knowledge' unless you purport to be Alan Bond.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    2:42pm
    No, MICK, I'm not fully aware of how "Abbott and Turnbull came after retirees" and as you wish to answer it in the way you have I suspect that you are also not fully aware. Still, with an election looming, Labor's scare tactics will be starting off slowly.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    5:23pm
    I'll tell you then, Old Man. Abbott and Turnbull, after LYING to promise ''no cuts to pensions'', changed the assets test to grind at least 300,000 retirees into unfair hardship, ripping up to $12K a year off their income, and in the case of newer retirees - depriving them of concessions and benefits as well.

    And now Short-on-brains is determined to finish the demolition job.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    8:15pm
    There's more OGR. Don't forget the government lowering the threshold for the Assets Test to knock retirees off getting even a meagre part pension. From $1.2 million to $800,000. That was a big deal. And then there was the attack on retirees to force them out of their homes telling them to live off the difference as they shuffled into a small house in the suburbs.

    And OM can conveniently not remember? What does one expect from somebody on the payroll. Scum!
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    9:41pm
    And Misty can't remember how Labor offered bribes to pensioners. I guess she's on the Labor payroll? Certainly seems determined to justify their treachery and abuse anyone who highlights it. Sorry, Mick. I like you, and the LNP trolls irritate me often, but there's no justifying the Labor trolls either.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    9:44pm
    The LnP will spread wealth and offer increased welfare in well targeted areas and does so very responsibly
    Always tuned to what this country can afford

    They have turned the labor creatred debt spiral around and now with years of projected surpluses forecast from next year, LnP is spreading the good fortune to those who need it most
    Pensioners and low income earners will be the biggest winners
    Anonymous
    19th Dec 2018
    7:52am
    The LNP will do what it has been doing, Lothario - feathering the nests of the filthy rich and transferring the wealth we should all be sharing to the already overflowing off-shore coffers, while persecuting battlers. It will continue to move us toward a feudal society of lords and masters vs serfs.

    And Labor will do what it has been doing - using lies and deceit to pretend that it is looking after battlers, but in fact throwing crumbs to the very needy, feeding and encouraging bludgers, the immoral, the useless and the stupid and tormenting anyone who gets up from hardship and has a go - making it all but impossible for those who start out challenged to earn more than the crumbs you get for doing nothing, and ripping it all off them if they succeed. 'Equality', you know? In Labor's language, it means superiority of those who don't challenge their power, elite status for the wealthy and favoured, and anyone who works hard, lives morally and responsibly and earns what they have must be forced to give it all - and more - to those who don't.

    Labor's franking credit policy demonstrates perfectly their objectives and their methods of achieving them. Their policy is to continue to
    - over-indulge the wealthy and high income earners, affording them privilege;
    - hand out to those pensioners who successfully manipulated to have both pension and investments;
    - steal from those who - despite not travelling an easy road - worked hard and achieved moderately and are standing on their own two feet - and grind them down to hardship and dependency (at huge cost to the nation, but never mind that as long as it extends the power of the Labor powerful!)
    - offer cheap bribes to those pensioners who DON'T need extra help (especially to the wealthy manipulators who qualify for pensions by deception) to support their rotten attack on the people who are contributing most to the economy (and don't forget to the charities who give all the proceeds to the rich administration, not the needy; and the institutional super funds that distribute the proceeds immorally, depriving those who should receive then and giving then to folk who shouldn't and who take control away from the workers, so nobody has the freedom or rights that come with having savings)
    - threaten or destroy investment of any kind in enterprise that creates jobs and opportunity and adds to the nation's wealth, until the society is in a state of collapse

    Add to that their ''safe schools'' policy destroying morality; their attack on families and parental authority and their concept of ''discrimination'' - which is that it's okay to discriminate against those they don't favour, but we must laud and worship those who empower them, and only those they favour have rights.

    In the areas of morality and family and parental authority, and discrimination, unfortunately the LNP has veered left as well - maybe because so many of the rich are hideously immoral and have no regard for family or community values.

    Ultimately, there is no hope no matter which of the two majors governs. It will either become a society of lords and masters persecuting serfs and starving the poor (claiming anyone born disadvantaged DESERVES to suffer all their life), or a society of lazy and useless screaming ''poor me - gimme gimme gimme'' and nobody, ultimately, to give then anything because the rich are greedily partying and wallowing in their drunken state, celebrating the success of the deception and abuse of power, and the former middle and upper working class have given up because there's just nothing to strive for anymore.

    The only way to save our society is to get rid of the whole stinking filthy lot of them, but they are taking calculated steps to ensure that can never happen. Suppression requires that the suppressed have no capacity to resist, and both sides are working together making laws to ensure there are no methods of potential resistance that have any hope of success.
    ex PS
    19th Dec 2018
    8:01am
    A government that has a large budget surplus is not doing their job properly, taxes are collected in order to provide infrastructure and services for those who pay them. They are not being paid so that corrupt governments can use them to buy votes from people who don't know any better.
    Anonymous
    19th Dec 2018
    12:59pm
    A large budget surplus suggests both the capacity to reduce debt and to extend services in the ensuing years. Spending it before it is realised is totally irresponsible, ex PS. You don't spend in expectation and hope if you want to promote financial health. You wait until the evidence of surplus funds is clear and then plan how they should be allocated.
    Ardnaher
    22nd Dec 2018
    7:34pm
    I would certainly not run my Budget the way Labor want to do!
    Anonymous
    24th Dec 2018
    8:37am
    I've observed, Noodles, that Labor and Greens supporters are generally less affluent and less likely to be self-sufficient in retirement. They of course claim less opportunity, but my observation is that it's far more likely to be the way they run their budget. Again and again and again I see people who have had far more income and opportunity than I ever dreamed of, but can't pay their bills and retire with little or nothing. Sometimes it's by conscious choice to spend rather than save, but mostly it's just the way they manage their money. And Labor manages (or doesn't manage) just like they do - spending today in the hope of having more tomorrow. (Yet in Labor's case they actively demolish the source of tomorrow's funds as well!)
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    11:03am
    I find it incredible that the LNP under 3 prime ministers has gone after retirees with a passion and now wants to bribe this community to vote for it.
    And then you have dishonest comments from the usual suspects poo-pooing Labor which has an agenda to end the one way money traffic currently going into the banks of the wealthy.

    The biggest laugh of the day yesterday was Frydenburgh claiming a surplus was coming. LNP goverments ALWAYS claim a surplus before an election as well as a fast train. The lies they they tell.
    Rae
    18th Dec 2018
    1:15pm
    Yes into the future haha. 2022 as if anyone knows what will happen tomorrow much less in 4 years time. We could be up to it in a Depression or a war by then the way world stability is collapsing and debt burdens weighing everything down.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    5:14pm
    Labor is certainly now coming after retirees with a passion. After the LNP robbed part pensioners of up to $12K a year, Labor is not out to finish the job of wiping out everything they worked and saved for. No other group of Australians has suffered anywhere near this degree of persecution. Aren't there laws against elder abuse and blatant discrimination?
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    10:28pm
    The franking credits are a small loss. We'll be copping that one too but the bigger picture looks good if Labor does something about tax avoidance at the top. Shorten said he would but we'll have to wait and see if he does an Abbott. If so then Independents will begin to show up in the parliament.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    10:34pm
    Tax avoidance at the top is a myth
    A lie perpertrated by labor to win votes

    The tax take from individuals and corporates has never been higher under LnP

    The top 10% of individuals pay 90% of personal income tax and the amount in real terms is increasing year on year

    Labor wants to tax low income mom and pop retirees more by removing franking credits
    Karl Marx
    19th Dec 2018
    1:08am
    Another fear tactic from Lothario.
    Tax avoidance is not a myth. To many loopholes, close them. To many companies being able to right down tax from loses years ago is BS. The PAYE can't do it. It's just one legal loophole that allows companies from avoiding tax that should be stopped for the benefit of Australia
    Anonymous
    19th Dec 2018
    11:38am
    Tax avoidance at the top is not a myth, but anyone who thinks Labor will do anything to address it is brain dead! They have supported and encouraged it for generations. It benefits those making the decisions. And their franking credit policy proves conclusively that they are determined to take from battlers - NOT A CENT from the wealthy.

    They have no interest in stopping tax avoidance - only in unfairly overtaxing certain sectors of the working and lower middle class and cheating them out of everything they worked for.

    No, Mick. 30% is certainly NOT a small loss. It's huge.
    Lookfar
    18th Dec 2018
    11:22am
    Its a good sign, - in years gone by the aged mainly voted Liberal and tha LNP took them for granted, but now a lot more thinking folk are aging and due to the internet, etc, we are communicating ideas and information and forming our own opinions, particularly I reckon, women.
    We are also looking much more to the future, as it has become much more obvious that politicians mainly only think about the next election, whereas we may have decades to do something with and grand children to care about and enjoy, allowing them a future has become an ever growing issue, and a lot of us realise that the ways of the past may no longer be viable, indeed it is often only the older folk who can crack out of their lifelong beliefs and look at the world anew.
    So the pollies have realised that neglect of the aged is losing them votes, particularly the LNP, who has less votes to lose, so they are all lathering on the promises.
    Many of us also have realised that allowing the super rich to run the earth is not a good choice, it destroyed Rome, and will destroy us if not stopped, so we are looking around, trying new thoughts and ideas, well, Hey, that is what the elders traditionally did, that is why elders were traditionally respected, perhaps us oldies can earn the title of elders if we can continue to care and bring our lifetimes of observation to bear upon the modern day problems, and help.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    11:39am
    Correct Lookfar.
    What surprises me is Shorten is likely using old data and has decided retirees will not vote Labor anyway. What he has ignored is that a lot of retirees are abandoning the LNP.

    The franking credits policy may undo all the good work and Shorten needs to amend it asap by introducing a THRESHOLD of, say $10,000 worth of franking credits, so that the majority of self funded retirees are not pushed into sub pension futures.
    Shorten needs to understand what he is doing is stupid and unfair....and that it may well cost him the election. Who advises this bloke?
    Rae
    18th Dec 2018
    12:03pm
    He hasn't done anything yet. Isn't our PM either. I think he'll see reason. At least I hope so.
    If not then the ASX will be in for a period of volatility. A lot of service staff for the SMSF spend may end up jobless as well. There are always consequences.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    2:18pm
    Rae - I desperately want to see the current dictatorship in waiting gone as I have no wish to live with such a regime in my country.
    Shorten is in the lead but forcing a whole pile of retirees to change their vote is political suicide. The man may be arrogant but if stupid he should not be the leader of the party.
    I remember Gillard was quoted as saying "the buggers don't vote for us anyway" in reference to retirees. What has happened in the interim is that retirees have been beaten around the ears and want to spit out the current government which is after their houses. Shorten needs to accept the gift he is being handed rather than do likewise. What will he be saying if he loses the election bu a few thousand votes?
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    5:28pm
    His ''up hill and down dale and I will NEVER...'' remark was about the stupidest thing I've heard a politician say in a long time. In other words, "I don't care about right, wrong, fairness, economic sustainability, destroying lives... let alone about valid arguments of FACT. I am a stubborn arrogant a-hole who will have his own way no matter what.'' Therefore not qualified for public office. He's clearly forgotten HE IS EMPLOYED BY US TO DO OUR BIDDING. He has no right to make a statement like that, and should be summarily dismissed for it.
    indi
    18th Dec 2018
    11:22am
    how much is in the futures fund and what is it for
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    11:40am
    Many $trillions. That's why both sides of politics are cracking their necks to siphon off some or even roll the lot into consolidated revenue and effectively steal it.
    Sundays
    18th Dec 2018
    1:51pm
    Indi, initially set up to pay for the future liabilities for payment of superannuation to retired military and public servants. The public servants paid in 5 to 10% of after tax dollars but the actual money went into consolidated revenue. To cover the ongoing liabilities Future fund was established in 2006. However, it hasn’t been touched and is now worth around $175 billion. A lot more than the $7 billion in Super payments made each year. No wonder they all have their greedy eyes on it. Let’s hope it’s put to good use
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    2:21pm
    Thanks for the correction Sundays.
    Not a Bludger
    18th Dec 2018
    3:19pm
    There you have it - “expert” and Marxist leftie Mick doesn’t know the difference between billions and trillions - and neither do his favoured Shorten and thug union mates trying to look “holier than thou” with money at their union controlled gabfest in Adelaide.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    4:58pm
    Marxist? That's the stock standard accusation from the top end of town when anybody challenges them. That and "jealousy". Turnbull used the latter on several occasions.
    Scream 'unfair', 'we'll be ruined', jobs will be lost', 'the economy will be damaged' and all manner of diversions.
    The truth is the last 6 years of government have been all about wealth transfer to the top end with more to come. You can lay claim what you want about Shorten but one thing that stands out is SHORTEN WILL NOT BRING IN A DICTATORSHIP. Your lot, the current government, has of course been working on this since Abbott was put into office.

    I'll have none of your illiterate verbal diarrhoea Bludger.
    You have no credibility because your posts are all about smear with NO FACTS to corroborate of your many accusations. This is how your government and its trolls operate.
    Not a Bludger
    18th Dec 2018
    7:16pm
    No smear to be seen, Mick - simply observed that you, by your own admission,are numerically illiterate - can’t tell the difference between billions and trillions - and I shall reiterate that neither can Bill Shorten and his union mate shadows and, neither incidently, could Rudd, Gillard, Kirner, Lawrence, Keating to name only a few - and Dan the Man, more locally, has already got rid of $9 billion from the sale of The Port of Melbourne - and a mere few days ago, broke out his begging bowl to borrow billions again.
    OMG, shades of Joan Kirner!
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    8:16pm
    Slip of the pen/keyboard dear troll.
    I, unlike you, will admit when I have made a mistake. I did. You just continue with the smear to try and blast your way out of the other end.
    Retired Knowall
    24th Dec 2018
    11:52am
    Fact Check....At 30 June 2018, it was valued at A$146 billion.
    Oma
    18th Dec 2018
    11:35am
    Liberals forget whose money it is they are spending. The money coming in belongs to the people who earned it and expect it to be used for their benefit. Older people who need home care are all entitled to be looked after properly. After all they are the ones who during their working years have supplied the cash with the impression that they will be looked after when they can no longer look after themselves or need a little help to do so. Don't give me this rubbish that 10,000 packages will be released when so many more need help. My 72 year old sister and I who look after my 97 year old mother have applied and cannot get a reply back for just a little help to shower Mum. Both My sister and Mother are entitled to help. We choose to have Mum at home so that the Government doesn't have to pay for a nursing home but as she is almost blind and cannot hear properly she needs 24/7 care. Most of the time the carer becomes the person needing care as the load of looking after an aged person is heavy work. We do it because we want to give back to our parents some of the care we were given as children but a little of what we paid to the Government coffers would be a big help.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    11:41am
    Liberals are Class War practitioners. They transfer money from poor to rich. Just recently again...tax cuts for the wealthy, with more to come should they be reelected.
    Rae
    18th Dec 2018
    12:09pm
    Yes Oma and well done to both of you. Cash assistance so you can employ help would be great. I fear a lot of the money goes to Service provider office administration that does not help shower anyone.

    A centralised public office at low cost and not for profit would allow employing actual carer staff to be maximised.

    We need something a bit like Uber where screened staff can be organised and paid to provide care to the maximum in each area.

    It will come. There is now Airb&b, a childminding service and private care needs will grow as we age.
    Swinging voter
    18th Dec 2018
    2:23pm
    Dear Oma, you don't mention why you can't get any help with your mum but if you are on a pension or below the income threshold you should be entitled to a carer's allowance and/or domestic assistance. You should see your local mp or visit Centrelink. My mother was in her 70's looking after many needs of her father in his 90's. He lived a short few houses away but she still qualified for a carer's pension. On the application, you calculate the required number of qualifying points based on how much you do, e.g. dressing, showering, providing meals etc. etc. and by your mum being almost blind it seems as if you would automatically qualify.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    4:44pm
    Liberals are Class War practitioners, and Labor transfer even more from the poor to the rich, but they offer cheap bribes to SOME of the poor to support ripping off others. I'm starting to think I prefer the LNP - heaven forbid! At least they are marginally more honest about it.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    5:02pm
    They are indeed OGR. Not only is it money being sent to the top end of town but the more worrying thing is some of the legislation which has been put in during the past few years. It is intended to control democracy brick by brick and when the trap is sprung it'll all be sitting there to silence individuals and control free speech. The media is a part of the grand plan but they have not yet managed to flog off the ABC.....but will if they get in again and have both houses and the mandatory rubber stamp. God help us all.
    Misty
    18th Dec 2018
    6:16pm
    What Mick?, agreeing with OGR that the LNP are honest, that Labor transfers money from the poor to the rich?, what cheap bribes are being offered to some of the poor OGR?.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    8:18pm
    "Liberals are Class War practitioners" - that's what I was referring to. Thanks.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    9:33pm
    Are you blind and deaf Misty? How many times has Paddington (among many others) reiterated that ''pensioners are exempt'' from Shorten's disgusting attack on retirees - no matter how rich they may be. And SFRs are deprived FOR LIFE no matter how poor they may be or may become. If that's not a cheap bribe to selfish pensioners, I don't know what it.

    I have NEVER said the LNP was honest, Misty. You need to learn to read. I said Labor are telling disgusting lies, but I equally I have always condemned the LNP. Labor DOES transfer money from the poor to the rich. Why else would it exempt the rich from its franking credit policy? Why would they give $900 to everyone who had an income and not one cent to those who had NONE? If you are too blind to see how Labor manipulates to feed the rich, I feel sorry for you.
    travelman
    18th Dec 2018
    12:05pm
    When I read their promises for aged care seems an awful of nothing or policies that will never reach the light of day. A huge amount of money promised but they forgot the most important need of all pensioners - a real increase in pensions to cover rising costs, over the last 6 years of their watch, also the rising cost of energy, medical expenses, of petrol (especially in regional areas),just to quote a few. Most of all, they have a reputation of making election promises in the past and they have never kept most of them - I just don't trust the Coalition and will never vote for them. I really think that they are just making wild unsubstantiated costings; They will drive this country into even greater debt when you consider all their policies and promises; what they committed us in purchasing military hardware is enormous alone and will break their promise to have us out debt in a couple of years. It will be interesting to see their 2019 budget, Don't you think? The death rattles of a doomed government.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    4:40pm
    Well Labor will fix it, travelman. They'll drive hundreds of thousands more onto pensions and kill investment in Australian companies, reducing jobs and growth and tax revenue, and then good luck pensioners. You'll need it!

    I have no time for the LNP either, and I don't trust any politician, but if Labor take the reigns, we are in big trouble. What inept Party bases a policy on outdated 2014-5 figures that have no relevance whatever, and takes income from battling self-funded retirees, forcing them onto pensions, while ensuring anyone with substantial wealth or high income retains their full benefit - plus extends the benefit to pensioners, regardless that some have significant wealth? And then they lie about their intentions - saying they are targeting retirees with more than $2.4 million in super when those retirees retain their benefit; and they offer pensioners a cheap bribe to support them. Totally unconscionable.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    5:08pm
    OGR - You might want to look back to the GFC years. The LNP has never had to rule in times like this.
    Labor may have run up some debt but it managed to keep the country ticking along and NONE OF US lost our jobs whilst the world faltered.
    My one concern about Labor is what Shorten is proposing with the franking credits reform. Whilst I am not against it (because the top end of town is the main beneficiary from this system) I do hope the guy gets his head of the clouds and puts in a threshold so that retirees are not forced to live on their capital and then end up on the pension. That would be a bad policy!
    I'd be happier if there were three times as many Independents in the parliament but my main hope is that the dictatorship in forming (the LNP bunch of misfits) is thrown out in a big way. Despite your misgivings OGR please do not lose sight of the evil we currently have ruling the country.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    5:19pm
    Mick, the franking credit 'reform' Shorten proposes EXCLUDES the top end of town. It takes NOTHING from anyone with substantial wealth - not even from rich pensioners. It attacks ONLY low wage earners and struggling self-funded retirees with very modest assets.

    He is lying with claims that it addresses a problem of 53% of cash going to retirees with more than $2.4 mil, but retirees with more than $2.4 mil keep their benefit. If 53% is going to them, much more than 53% will go to then under his policy as poorer SFRs and lower income investors are ripped off.

    I'll be pushing for as many independents and minor parties (but NOT Greens) as possible.
    Rae
    18th Dec 2018
    7:21pm
    Yes MICK. I'd like to see some real figures on predictions of forced share sell offs to meet the income needs if credits are lost. Increased volatility in mainly banking securities needs to be considered as it will be a consequence. I'd like to know the predicted % of shares hitting the market and the forecast for the effects on the ASX.

    Governments messing up markets unintentionally because they didn't think a consequence would happen are legendary. I'm also fearful they don't have an economic historian on staff at all.

    Of course it is probably to force SMSFs into Industry Funds but let's hope the consequences don't lose everyone capital gains if the market reacts badly.

    I'm not confident about the ASX right now even without this uncertainty. And I don't hold individual shares other than Origin for electricity cost income which now has ceased as they no longer pay a dividend.

    Neither will a lot of other companies if the whees fall off the economy.
    Karl Marx
    18th Dec 2018
    12:12pm
    Both parties will say anything to retain or seize power then never do what they "promised" with the usual excuses that "we have just gone over the books & the situation is far worse than expected" or something similar.
    You can always tell when a politician is lying, there mouth is open.
    Lookfar
    18th Dec 2018
    12:49pm
    1984, in the same vein,
    "Five surgeons are discussing who has the best patients to operate on:

    The first surgeon says, 'I like to see accountants on my operating Table Because when you open them up, everything inside is numbered.'

    The second responds, 'Yeah, but you should try electricians! Everything inside them is color-coded.'

    The third surgeon says, 'No, I really think librarians are the best. Everything inside them is in alphabetical order.'

    The fourth surgeon chimes in, 'You know I like construction workers. Those guys always understand when you have a few parts left over at the End, and when the job takes longer than you said it would.'

    But the fifth surgeon shuts them all up when he observed, 'You're all Wrong. Politicians are the easiest to operate on. There's no guts, no heart, no balls, no brains, and no spine, and there are only two moving parts - the mouth and the arsehole - and they're interchangeable
    Karl Marx
    18th Dec 2018
    12:57pm
    lol, would have to agree, thank you made my day
    Captain
    19th Dec 2018
    1:07pm
    Well observed Lookfar.
    Jaz
    18th Dec 2018
    12:44pm
    My life has been the result of LNP promises made and then changed at will by Phony Tony as I now try to exist on an income around $3000 a year less than an aged pension all because a little property I bought with money my mother left me increased in value (not my doing) and I am stuck even if I sell I still have too much in assets so I have learned that ANY politicians promises are just that and are not ever to be believed and they still call this the "lucky country" - not with the way our politicians are running it that's for sure - the only thing they will ever agree on is increases to their pensions and perks. Where will the money come from for these -- guess it's the taxpayers as usual you know those poor little people who get less and pay more for everything or maybe they can just continue to sell the country from under us.
    Karl Marx
    18th Dec 2018
    12:55pm
    Jaz,this is one of the luckiest countries on earth if you are a politician, wealthy or a corporation as the government of the day will ensure prosperity on the back of the average worker & pensioner & SFR
    Dongers
    18th Dec 2018
    12:54pm
    I use to enjoy Your Choices, but unfortunately the publication is becoming just another mouth piece for the Lefties instead on maintaining impartial views.
    Please don't become another ABC!
    Karl Marx
    18th Dec 2018
    12:59pm
    But what about all the LNP rightie trolls or is that okay.
    Lookfar
    18th Dec 2018
    1:08pm
    Dongers, if you are hard right the liberals are lefties, so you have to acknowledge your letter was posted, - if it was biased it would not have been, ie YLC would have deleted it.
    Point being that over the last few years OZ has moved to the right, but now that dalliance is suspect and has moved to the 'left' which to the Left is still on the other side, - it all depends where you are standing and you have No b right to tell the rest of us where to stand, and every right to stand wherever you like, but please don't use meaningless labels when all we are doing is trying to find the best way forward for us inhabitants of the planet earth.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    3:21pm
    the best way backwards is with the lefties
    Not a Bludger
    18th Dec 2018
    3:23pm
    So true, Dongers - and is a pity that YLC has become a quite biased series of columns hijacked by leftie/Getup writers.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    5:11pm
    The normal right wing nonsense above. Anybody who disagrees with the rape of the poor is a leftie. Anybody who thinks the top end of town does not deserve to have public money given to it by the truckload is a Marxist. And any media out let which gives balanced news is biased and needs to be sold off.
    I have to laugh at the above views. Straight from Liberal Party HQ. What do they pay you guys to betray the nation? Thirty pieces of silver?
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    5:19pm
    We KNOW what Labor is paying pensioners to bribe them to support treachery.
    Misty
    18th Dec 2018
    6:22pm
    Pray tell OGR, what bribes are Labor paying to pensioners?, I asked this question in a comment above also.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    6:23pm
    Misty - I think you have serious issues
    Does your labor party boss pay for shrinks .
    At the very least you need to be educated on the truth
    Karl Marx
    18th Dec 2018
    6:27pm
    NaB Getup is a great organisation with over a million members in Australia being informed on what governments & corporations are doing or trying to do.
    GetUp! is working towards a thriving democracy in Australia led by the values and hopes of everyday people.
    PEOPLE, POWER, IMPACT
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    6:28pm
    get up is a marxist movement sponsored by ultra left commies, unions and the labor party
    Karl Marx
    18th Dec 2018
    6:29pm
    and pray tell what truth is that Lothario, how to become a ultra right wing LNP troll with no empathy for the less fortunate.
    Karl Marx
    18th Dec 2018
    6:35pm
    And also informing us how the top end of town, corporations & politicians are bleeding this country dry with no thought or consideration for the people or environment. Get-up also disagree with many ALP policies & have protested against both LNP & ALP on many occasions.
    Have you ever been to a Get-up meeting Lothario or even spoken to them at the polling booths?
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    6:37pm
    Dont want to go near any dirty stinking socialist get-up retards.

    absolute waste of space
    Karl Marx
    18th Dec 2018
    6:45pm
    So you haven't a clue what they represent. One eyed view as always. But then again I wouldn't expect anything else from an ultra right LNP troll
    Karl Marx
    18th Dec 2018
    6:46pm
    And you told Misty to get educated lol
    Adrianus
    18th Dec 2018
    7:34pm
    You should get with the times 1984, they are not hard righties as you and MICK call them, they are logically thinking intelligent people.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    8:01pm
    I call on YLC to own up if several of the above government trolls who all read from the same propaganda book are indeed THE SAME PERSON.
    Come on YLF. You have the IP addresses. Fess up.
    Karl Marx
    19th Dec 2018
    1:17am
    Adraianus, I'm with the times man, I always read left, right, centre, the Greens, Get-up, independants, even Socialist & communist views, but you rightie LNP trolls are, well, to use Lotharios term, a bunch of retards but with only one eye.
    Adrianus
    19th Dec 2018
    10:45am
    MICK, have you noticed that you believe there should be a law against people having an opinion which differs from yours?
    I think there's a word for that isn't there?
    Yes, that's right its the F word.
    Anonymous
    19th Dec 2018
    11:40am
    And against mentioning a policy that doesn't threaten direct hurt to Misty, Greg, Sundays or Paddington.
    Blinky
    18th Dec 2018
    1:14pm
    They need to replace the Minister in charge of aged care. He's aware of what's been happening and hasn't done anything about it!
    Include harsh penalties for non-compliance and jail terms for managers, owners,CEOS who are guilty of serious breaches.
    Standards should be higher, and monitored by experienced auditors.
    Something similar to 'mistery shoppers,' or "mistery diners" should be adopted asap. This could replace a very expensive royal commission.
    Paddington
    18th Dec 2018
    1:17pm
    It does not matter what they say or promise they are not going to be re-elected. People are unhappy about the lack of action to address climate change amongst other things.
    Walking out rather than face the possibility of a non confidence vote has not been welcomed or condoned by the public.
    Treatment of women to the point one has crossed the floor is absolutely not winning any votes.
    Facts not fiction from the liberal trolls on here would impress more.
    At the very worst it will be a Bradbury result!
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    3:54pm
    You might be in for a shock, Paddington. They are shooting some goals lately, and Labor has really stuffed itself with its franking credits nonsense - peddling unfairness and major economic harm with gross dishonesty and cheap bribes of pensioners.

    Personally, I want both parties gone forever. Neither is fit to govern. And it's all but impossible to determine which is worse - though certainly the Greens are worse than both combined.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    5:13pm
    I agree Paddington but never underestimate the power of the Murdoch and Stokes media empire to poison the minds of voters.
    Paddington
    18th Dec 2018
    9:17pm
    Nah, the Libs have stuffed it up. People are on Facebook and watching the ABC at programs like Q and A. Some will vote the way they always have but many will not. There will be a protest vote in support of women candidates. Trump like voters will continue to be blind sided but people are more informed for the most part. Greens and independents could benefit also.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    9:35pm
    If you are relying on Facebook for an indicator, Paddington, you are being seriously deceived. There are millions of voters far too intelligent to bother with Facebook. And ABC and Q&A are left. God help anyone dumb enough to vote for Greens.
    Paddington
    19th Dec 2018
    5:12pm
    Woo OGR....conversations on Facebook from people discussing issues!
    ABC is certainly not leftist. They bend over backwards giving air time to people like Abbott and Pauline Hanson to show they are allowing the weirdest of views to air. It is up to us to refute those as racist and unfair.
    Last sentence was the worst of the lot actually! People who vote for the Greens care about the environment in particular. Greens are sincere about the environment so no need for your nasty comment. You don’t have to agree with all their policies and that is fine.
    Q and A is part of the ABC programming. When you have a problem with that where everyone is represented on the panel and in the audience varying from week to week such as age, political persuasion, topics, etc.
    Anonymous
    19th Dec 2018
    7:17pm
    Paddington, you are entitled your opinions, but you also say it's fine for Labor to demolish the lifestyles of struggling self-funded retirees, and you claim social and economic superiority for pensioners, so don't expect me to accept anything you say as valid.

    The Greens stand for unfairness and total disrespect, and policies that present serious danger to society. Like you, they want a world in which people who work hard and save well are persecuted. They destroy businesses and jobs - not for environmental reasons, but based on commercial favouritism. Their concept of 'equality' and 'social harmony' is take everything away from battling workers who achieve a little and try to stand on their own two feet and hand it out to people who create the appearance - validly or otherwise - of being less advantaged. They also endorse immorality and the destruction of family values and parental rights.

    Q&A and ABC are both biased to the left - very much so. They expose the contrary view in order to discredit it.

    I have no political affiliations and I would like to see both major parties and the Greens totally obliterated, along with a large number of other politicians of all persuasions. I try to be objective. I also try to be kind, but the disrespect and cruelty I'm seeing here and the claims of superior rights and superior respect for pensioners have got up my nose. I am sorry about that. And I am disgusted with the hypocrisy of a party (the Greens) that supports wiping out the lifestyles of retirees who worked hard and are contributing an enormous benefit to the economy, and ought to be allowed to retain a very small fair tax concession to enable them to continue to make that contribution while still enjoying a standard of living at least equivalent to that pensioners enjoy.
    Blinky
    18th Dec 2018
    1:24pm
    1. Aged care worker training should be reviewed.
    2. Sekection, employment and retention of aged care workers (acw) should be more thorough.
    3. Compensation and working conditions of acw's should be reviewed and improved if need be.
    4. Acw's found to display abusive behaviour toward seniors should be summarily dismissed and face tougher penalties under the law. This should include jail terns if causing bodily harm or other serious damage.
    Lookfar
    18th Dec 2018
    2:04pm
    Hi Blinky, I hope you are passing your concerns on to the appropriate ministers in the 2 major parties and to say the Katter party and the Greens, (both caring parties ) Whatever, good on you, Cheers, Geoff.
    Lookfar
    18th Dec 2018
    2:35pm
    Old man, I have a suspicion about the use of the word Motherhood as you use it, - it is an in group word I see in The Conversation, and I distrust in-group twisting of words, - f-ing elitists! - Is it important who said what, when, to which newsagency and how? - Reporters always claim to be the first, so just let's look at the bids, and to be frank, they both need to be fleshed out quite a lot before you and me know just what and how realistic is the "promise Carrot".
    Spondonian
    18th Dec 2018
    3:06pm
    Universal pension is the way to go . If you add up all the costs of Centrelink and the lost time pensioners spend filling in forms , chasing statements and queueing in Centrelink to get a pittance then I am sure it would work out cheaper . Definatly not fair the way the system is at present .
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    5:15pm
    That's an interesting work in progress. Once many many more jobs disappear with robotics arriving governments will have no choice...but don't expect anything other than a cup of rice a day type of universal pension. The rich will still want it all.
    TREBOR
    18th Dec 2018
    5:13pm
    A host of the funding will vanish into 'administrative costs'.. much will be spent on 'enlightenment groups' for providers ... some will go direct to providers to 'enhance their knowledge and raise awareness'....

    The end result will be a bureaucracy.... they've already appointed some sheila from the healthcare sector to the top fat spot.
    TREBOR
    18th Dec 2018
    5:22pm
    Dual pension for carers at home... cheaper than sending in 'professionals' once or twice a week... and a far better outcome for the cared for and the carer... the cared for gets 24/7 care as it is - the carer could numb self with a decent bottle or something.... both benefit from extra cash to spend on relief such as holidays...
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2018
    6:24pm
    typical selfish gimme gimmee gimmee from a proven leaner
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    8:03pm
    And the normal gutter name calling from a government troll who NEVER has any facts. Just mudslinging.
    Captain
    19th Dec 2018
    1:17pm
    Lothar io, have you ever been the full-time carer for an invalid relative?
    Misty
    18th Dec 2018
    6:27pm
    My son's friend recently had his mum removed from a Nursing Home because of the dodgy care she was getting, the Health Dept has now got involved so hopefully this place will either be closed down or made to abide by the rules.
    Lookfar
    18th Dec 2018
    7:23pm
    Slothario, you need to take off those artificial tanning shades and get out into the real world, - get a proper suntan, dig up a garden, do some work.
    The only difference between the baby sloth and the adult sloth is there is no one around to smack your bottom.
    Well, you have come to the right place, there are lots of experienced bottom smackers on this site, if we could be bothered with infants like you.
    It would be different if you could actually think, but just babbling meaningless cliches, yech.
    Adrianus
    18th Dec 2018
    7:29pm
    What about all the jobs lost to union employees Misty? Don't you care about Union members?
    MICK
    18th Dec 2018
    8:21pm
    And what about your boss stacking all jobs of importance with Liberal Party cronies? And what about the tossing out of full time jobs and replacement with casual and part time work making Australia the greatest abuser of employees in the western world?????
    Rae
    19th Dec 2018
    8:21am
    Only 13% of employees are in a union. Mostly Government workers as you need the lawyers just in case some member of the public decides you're guilty of something or just hates public servants.

    I doubt the low paid carers are unionised. If they are then their union is hopeless as these people are mostly foreign visa holders on very cheap hourly pay and oodles of unpaid overtime bosses seem to need these days.
    Adrianus
    19th Dec 2018
    9:19am
    Bill Shorten signed them all up via an employer agreement to subsidise wages. Did everyone miss that?
    Adrianus
    19th Dec 2018
    9:38am
    The ACTU and other unions have worked over the years to get the working week down to 37.5 hours. Now they are working to push those hours higher past the 40 hour mark.
    Seems to me their true motivation is not for the worker but for workplaces to be more inflexible. Seems everything they do is aimed at ideological change to inflexibility which forces employers to react defensively, rather than confidently creating jobs.
    By the way, how did the HSU become responsible for aged care workers?
    Lookfar
    19th Dec 2018
    7:28am
    Part of this discussion has been about the non payment of tax, whether legal or not, by the big multinationals, - described by some as a Labour myth, well, the following table is something to chew on.
    No doubt those supporting the .01% wil claim the table is untrue, - of course it is in their absolute self interest to so claim, genuine criminals always plead not guilty. https://www.marketforces.org.au/campaigns/subsidies/taxes/taxavoidance/#table
    Anonymous
    24th Dec 2018
    8:26am
    Table is true, Lookfar, and sadly our government has made it perfectly legal for these companies to avoid tax (and others who enjoy privileges they CLAIM are available to all, and certainly are legally, but not practically).

    The problem I see is that no government is ever going to address this, because to get into power you either are rich or have the means (if only by seizing power) to get rich - and the rich support the rich. There will be token changes and token suggestions of changes - used to win the support of those who need and want change. It hasn't ever happened to any significant extent and it never will. There have been wins - unions have claimed better working conditions, shorter hours, etc. But the overall social structure remains the same. Our living standards have improved - but not necessarily due to socialist political movements to any greater degree than through improvements in overall prosperity due to the structure of capitalism.

    I strongly support responsible lobbying for social improvement - but what Labor and the Greens are doing is NOT lobbying for social improvement. They have NEVER indicated a sincere intention to address tax avoidance at the top. What they are doing is slaughtering the lower middle and upper working class with policies that they lie to pretend are targeted at the very wealthy. And since the lower middle and upper working class are the people who pay the majority of taxes - and who are most likely to support a strong welfare safety net (since they have either been down or recognize a risk of falling), when they are ground down to hardship there will be no funds to pay for welfare.

    I am constantly attacked for pointing out what ought to be obvious to all - that if you reduce the income of someone who has worked for decades to be self-sufficient to the point where there is no longer any benefit in striving, there will be hundreds of thousands more on aged pensions and hundreds of thousands more withdrawing from any attempt to be self-funded, and then where does the money come from to pay for aged pensions. Oh, of course! There's plenty to be collected from the avoiders!

    NO THERE ISN'T. Because NOBODY in power will EVER turn on their rich buddies who support them and fund their campaigns. It has never happened and it never will. There will be rumblings. There will be minor tweaks to garner support. But it will NEVER EVER HAPPEN.

    Should we stop highlighting the problem and demanding change? Absolutely NOT. The more pressure we can apply, the more favourable tweaks we are likely to see. But we MUST protect the people who are paying and have paid and whose ongoing contribution is funding welfare. If we allow Labor and the Greens to continue the demolition of their lifestyle, the needy are doomed.

    The LNP used to support the middle class, but they have turned left and attacked them. Some half-million Australians were deprived of up to $12,000 a year in income they EARNED AND DESERVED (Well, why not? Pensioners claim entitlement - no matter what the real value of their assets. They were pensioners. They just happened to be pensioners who chose assets that were legally assessable.)

    Now Labor intends to finish the demolition job by taking another chunk of income - up to $15,000 a year or maybe more - from people whose income is below that of hundreds of thousands of pensioners - even, in some cases, below the base pension. Oh, they can live on their savings until they qualify for a pension. Sure can! But if you sacrificed holidays every year to put and extra $2K in the bank, and as a result retired with an extra $10K more than the guy who took a holiday every year, would you accept that it as fair that you had to hand that extra $10K to the taxman - for no other reason than that you had it? No attention to future - or even current -genuine needs, reason to save, age, life expectancy, real wealth (when everything is counted), children's ability or desire to assist with paying your bills --- NO ATTENTION TO ANYTHING except 'you have it, some don't, so hand it over'. Seriously? You think that's fair or good for society?


    And when they do hand it over and go on the pension, then the pension bill goes up and up and up. And their kids say 'Stuff working and saving. It doesn't pay. I'll just go on the pension'' (and we are seeing this now with Millennials. They are living it up in preference to savings). So where do you think the money will come from to pay the higher pension bill? Oh, yes! That's right! There's plenty of multinationals and wealthy avoiding tax. AND YOU ARE LIVING IN LA LA LAND AND NEED MENTAL HELP IF YOU THINK THAT'S GONNA CHANGE ANY TIME SOON! All you pensioners will starve before the rich pay tax to support you. So think again about your allegiance to politicians who want to destroy the welfare system under the guise of being more generous. They ARE leading you a merry dance to destruction. And the FC policy is proof positive. Doesn't touch ANYONE with a high income or substantial assets. ONLY hurts 660,000 with LESS than $1.6 million and struggling to earn enough to equal what they'd have on a pension. And yes, they do have more than many - because they worked and sacrificed to get it. They EARNED it. And if we take away what people EARN, they will stop earning and stop paying tax.

    I detest the LNP and I abhor the greed and selfishness of the rich. But I see the writing on the wall. I have options. I can rearrange my affairs and go on the pension. I can TAKE the pension someone with no option NEEDS. I oppose a policy that invites me to do that because the person whose pension I take HAS NO OPTIONS. Vote for a party that supports demolishing the tax base at your peril. It might well be YOUR pension that is reduce to pay mine!
    ex PS
    19th Dec 2018
    7:44am
    It is a favorite Liberal trick, cut services, run infrastructure into the ground, use the money gained to buy votes from people too stupid to realize they are being bought with their own money.

    The government gives us nothing, it has no money of its own, they are giving you back money that they have taken from you in the first place, and some are silly enough to thank them for it. Some never learn they are like faithful old hounds, they get kicked in the guts every morning but line up each morning in the hope that one day they may get a treat, in this case it is always just before an election.
    We end up with the government we deserve.
    Adrianus
    19th Dec 2018
    9:12am
    Wow, you've really got it bad :(
    ex PS
    23rd Dec 2018
    11:32am
    Has any one got a cure for "a dry anus"?
    Lookfar
    19th Dec 2018
    2:16pm
    Dear Only Genuine Rainey, I notice you seem very very hostile to the Greens, yet they are the only party fighting for our children and grandchildren, - surely you care about your family, - so many times you have told us about your sacrifices for them, has something changed ?
    I find it hurtful that a person claiming understanding from us of why he needs his franking credits or whatever bullshit, so he can support his family is then, almost in the same breathe, prepared to consign them to the hell of a runaway global warming planet rather than even accept a party dedicated to fight for the future of the human race.
    Something doesn't gel, it is a bit Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde but more complicated than that, almost like you are looking for an excuse to be Mr Hyde. potion be damned.
    Often, for what seems to be very small amounts of money, you become very vicious and insulting, indulging in broad generalisations without foundation and generally acting like a nasty .screwball yet next you are kind and understanding. Obviously it is not just one isssue but many, and you seem to ricochet between them sometimes seeming out of control. People on the list reach out to you, next moment you stamp on them, to me I suspect it has something to do with the Greens, - what they stand for, what they do?
    Can you come clean and be honest and truthful? why do you hate the only party trying to save the human race?
    Adrianus
    19th Dec 2018
    4:06pm
    Saving the human race is a very profitable industry to be in for some.
    Anonymous
    19th Dec 2018
    4:10pm
    Hahaha - greens saving the human race ??? ROFLMAO

    It's a massive con job run for profit with blind and dumb followers with arrested mental development
    Paddington
    19th Dec 2018
    5:24pm
    I hope the Greens get more votes in the next election. Three of our kids vote Green because they care about the environment.
    Parties like Pauline Hanson should not out poll the Greens as they do defend equality which she does not.
    There are a few things the Greens could do to attract more votes and one is not to attack Labor because the enemy of my enemy is my friend. They are doing a lot right however and they have some good candidates for the next election.
    Females and independents are going to be a plus as well because people are looking for equality and compassion. The government thought people were not upset about Nauru and endless offshore detention and they were wrong. People are basically good and will respond to fairness where it shows itself.
    Good on you Lookfar for supporting the Greens! I have noticed they are stronger in some places moreso than in others. ACT is a good Greens place so here’s hoping for them!
    Anonymous
    19th Dec 2018
    7:01pm
    Lookfar, I was a member of the Greens for a time, but I quit because I saw them for what they are - a mob of misguided fools and hypocrites. I'm sorry, but it's a fact. They sold out a lot of good people supporting the assets test change with no concern for the impact, but with a promise that they would force a review of the pension system. They then made no attempt at all to force that review. And their stated grounds for supporting the measure evidenced wrongful motives and dangerous policies. That's just one disturbing betrayal, but the main issue is that as Adrianus says, there is huge profit in pretending to want to save the human race. They do more harm than good.

    The Greens are not trying to save the human race. They are extremists engage in harmful social engineering. I wish that weren't true. I'd love to believe as you do, Lookfar, but I know better. They are supporting the destruction of morality, families, and parental rights. They are demolishing businesses under false pretence of concern for the environment where none is threatened. They are killing off jobs and increasing costs. They did massive harm to my family with a particular campaign (that I won't specify for privacy reasons) that was totally irresponsible.

    I don't expect you to understand, any more than you understand why the FC issue is so critical to me - and some things I choose not to disclose. I can assure you that few of my comments have anything to do with the Greens though.

    And I can assure you I am by nature a kind and understanding person, but I get very upset at unfairness and selfishness and at people who have no respect for the rights of others. There have been some vicious attacks on me here. There have also been some very offensive comments that perhaps were made carelessly and thoughtlessly, but when I responded indicating that I found the remarks offensive, cruel or unfair, I was bombarded with a tirade of equally offensive comments.

    Paddington's remark that pensioners were exempt from Shorten's treachery, for example, implied that it was perfectly okay for others to be seriously damaged unfairly, as long as pensioners were fine. When I highlighted the unfairness and disrespect in that comment, the response was an endless tirade from Misty (and others) in which she pretty much called me a liar, implied I must have got my savings in some devious way (since nobody she knows has as much - as if she even knows what I have), and ranted on and on and on justifying Shorten's attack, cheering the hurt it threatens, and demanding that I refrain from saying anything on the subject. Well, she doesn't have to read my comments and she doesn't have to respond, but I have every right to speak out whenever and wherever I choose in defence of my standard of living, in defence of fairness, and highlighting the potential major damage a policy threatens.

    I'm sorry if I sometimes show my anger in responses to cruel, unfair and disrespectful comments, but I really got fed up with it. And I got fed up with people deliberately misquoting me and misconstruing statements, ignoring the focus and honing in on angles that I had played down or even refrained from mentioning. It seemed the objective was always to discredit and denigrate any way possible - often seemingly to block debate that highlighted valid issues and concerns and focus on political advantage.

    I've spent 2 years on this site defending pensioners and the disadvantaged, asking others to refrain from denigrating them, show them proper respect, and support demands for a better deal for those who are struggling. And the response when my lifestyle was attacked was downright cruel and as nasty as it gets.

    GeorgeM repeatedly asked that we all unite for a common cause. I supported that call. But no! We cannot have self-funded retirees prospering. Only pensioners are worthy of respect and courtesy and a decent lifestyle. SFRs have too much, so no matter how they got it, why they saved, or what their future needs may be, they must forfeit the lot to folk who get around $1 million gifted to them. Where is the decency in that attitude?

    I'm sorry, Lookfar. I don't recall you being among those whose comments were cruel and offensive and I apologize profusely if I have inadvertently offended you at any time. I assure you again that I am a kind and caring person by nature. But I also stand for integrity, fairness, and respect. And I don't appreciate people who are being supported by mine and my children's tax dollars endorsing the demolition of everything I've worked for 50 years to achieve - much less implying that I am somehow at fault for my situation. I've had a hard life, but I've worked honestly and diligently and made a lot of sacrifices and I think I deserve to enjoy a peaceful and secure retirement. I am happy to continue working to not be a burden on the taxpayer. I'm happy to forgo the concessions and benefits that pensioners enjoy. I just want to be allowed a fair tax deal and to enjoy FAIR benefit for all my hard work and sacrifice. And to be able to highlight concerns about issues without being personally attacked in response.
    Anonymous
    19th Dec 2018
    7:04pm
    Don't apologise to these lefty loonies Rainey
    They lie , twist words, manipulate and more to advance their so called bullshit progressive agenda
    They are an extremist intent of destroying society and turning us back to the dark ages
    Anonymous
    19th Dec 2018
    7:19pm
    Lothario, I don't agree with a lot of what they say and I fear a lot of what they wish to do, but I asked for respect and I think they are entitled to equal.
    Adrianus
    20th Dec 2018
    8:19am
    f the Greens were actually saving the human race I would expect more than 10% of voters would support them. I think they may have started with the intention of saving the human race from moral decline by saving the whales but that was a long time ago. They are now at the behest of GetUp and the Unions, their biggest donators.
    Anonymous
    20th Dec 2018
    9:34am
    The Greens supported ripping up to $12K a year off struggling part-pensioners, and now are actively supporting depriving those same people of up to 30% of what they have left - and thus creating an environment in which the only logical choice for someone with less than about $1.2 mil (or at least $1.5 mil for a couple - unless they are an investment wizard) is to manipulate (if necessary) to be a pensioner.

    I don't see how creating a nation of poor and dependant retirees and making work futile is going to save the human race. I rather think it's much more likely to wipe out our society.

    Or perhaps their goal is to return us all to the lifestyle of prehistoric man? I notice that they all drive cars and live in air conditioned houses built of brick and aluminium and glass and tiles. Hence I can only judge them as selfish hypocrites. When they live in accordance with the rules they seek to impose, I might agree they deserve some support.
    Diamond Jim
    21st Dec 2018
    11:54am
    Funny that when the Liberals are worried about their own skins, suddenly Aged Care becomes a priority. Labor has always had a policy of greater funding for Aged Care!!! I can't wait for the election to come to turf out this mob of self-centered philandering swill called the Liberal Government!
    Anonymous
    22nd Dec 2018
    2:15pm
    And destroy the nation. Bring it on, Diamond Jim. And let's see where the dollars come from when there is nothing left for people to work and strive for.

    I detest the LNP, but Labor is a far greater danger - especially to the most vulnerable. When the stinking Greens have their way and there is no benefit at all in being a self-funded retiree, and we have millions fewer contributing to help pay the welfare bills, then where will the needy go. But I guess you don't care about that. As long as the selfish elite are okay on their $1 million handouts, the rest of the world can go to hell.
    Lookfar
    22nd Dec 2018
    3:44pm
    Dear OGR, I appreciated your rply, fair and balanced, I agree that the greens are trying to find their own identity, - not just a tail of the Labour party, and gnashed my teeth on some of their non-supports of the labour party, - but arguably they would then have disappeared.
    Thing is, the world is suffering mightily from the first serious pangs of Global Warming, liberal response is "the climate is always changing," - I could equally say, "I am always breathing" - both mean absolutely nothing. - but I think about my child, and my beautiful Grandchildren, who supports my attempts to save their future? Certainly not Lothario, who you seem to accept his statement that you are on his side, his is the most poisonous of all on YLC, but he will kill my grand children, hiding behind his "Left and Right" judgementals, - do you ever think what side he is on, ? he is a Necrophage, so his side is the bottom, left and right and bottom, who is the top?
    Your'e tax stuff, I admit I have only the pension, - spent half of my life in volunteer organisations working for others for no money, second half trying to get implemented new technology to help save our civilisation, no money either, possibly you would see your tax stuff as better than my life, - i wonder, I don't say you would, but all old are under seige at the moment, significantly because the media characterise us as old grasping penny pinchers, - please let that stuff go OGR, nobody on ylc can help you get your tax thing solved, and neither should we have to stress about it, it is just a funny little extra perk you seem to be prepared to sacrifice our grand children to get, - and your grand children also, - are you doing the best for them?
    Sincerely Geoff, (Lookfar)
    Anonymous
    22nd Dec 2018
    5:11pm
    Dear Lookfar -
    I too worry about the world our grandchildren will inherit, and I sincerely hope it's not one dominated by folk like Lothario. But unfortunately there's very little we can do about global warming. It's a cycle of nature and it's been happening for millions of years. The reality is that most of those pretending concern for the environment are using climate change as an excuse to peddle very dangerous self-interested policies that are designed to shift power and wealth increasingly to the rich and to implement a damaging version of socialism.

    I sympathize with your financial situation - but it's precisely BECAUSE of that that I strongly oppose what both Greens and Labor are doing. They are destroying the middle class, whose taxes and financial contribution by being self-supporting in retirement is essential to fund pensions and other welfare. The rich will NEVER pay their share, and Labor won't make them because Labor leaders are rich. They won't attack their own. Proof is evident in that they are not taking ANY FC from the wealthy! The middle class and upper working class - those just above pension level - are a convenient target, and it's easy to concoct lies to win the support of those who have less. But the reality is that pushing another 1/2 million onto pensions by denying them a fair tax refund that is keeping them off pensions at present is dangerous. Destroying incentives for people to work and be self-supporting if they can is foolish. It will reduce revenue and drive huge increases in welfare costs and there will be insufficient funds to provide for the needy in future generations.

    If Shorten were truthful, why is he, on the one hand, claiming the problem is that 53% of FC benefits go to SFRs with more than $2.4 million, but on the other hand ensuring those with more than $2.4 million RETAIN their benefit? Why is he attacking people with a $400,000 house and $900,00 in assets and favouring folk with a $3 million house and $300,000 in other assets? Why is he favouring the couple who put Mum and Dad in a nursing home and went around the world in 2017 then claimed a pension, and declaring the couple who delayed their holiday to care for their aging parents must suffer for the rest of their lives? Why is he extending benefits to multi-millionaires and people earning hundreds of thousands a year and taking them away from folk who are battling on incomes LESS than the OAP and with less than $1 million in total assets?

    And why are the Greens supporting this dishonesty and treachery by Shorten? Why did they support Hockey's attack on part pensioners but demand a promise that they then allowed the government to break?

    I have options. So do others with modest savings. We can spend our savings and go on the pension, or we can buy bigger houses and go on the pension. We'd actually have far higher incomes, less stress and greater security. But we'd be taking money that would be better spent helping those with genuine need and none of the options we have.

    I frankly do not understand how Shorten can be so deceitful as to pretend what he is doing is beneficial for the vulnerable or the nation, and I don't understand how anyone can not see through his deception.

    I want a future for my grandchildren. I want a caring society in which the vulnerable are supported. We can only achieve that by sensible tax policies that encourage work and self-sufficiency among those who are able. A fair tax policy is much, much less costly than pushing hundreds of thousands onto pensions by slashing their income with unfair taxation.

    It's NOT a small loss that Shorten is threatening, and I AM doing the best for future generations by pointing out that it is malicious, dishonest, and politically motivated with a sinister agenda, because it CANNOT achieve any of the stated objectives and it's been marketed with blatant untruths.

    Everyone on YLC can and SHOULD oppose a hypocritical policy agenda that threatens the future for all of us. Everyone can and SHOULD stand up for fairness and common sense - demanding the Labor Party and the Greens withdraw from their attack on the livelihood of battling SFRs and show some respect for people who are making a major contribution to the budget - because the future of our society depends on people continuing to make that contribution, and making it impossible for them WILL spell disaster for our grandchildren.

    I could easily be selfish and trade my assets and very small income for a $40,000+++ pa handout from the government. Shorten's policy might save $10,000 in tax refunds, and cost more than $50,000 when pension, concessions and administration costs are counted. How does that help the budget? It clearly does NOT. But the ONLY people he's attacking are people in my situation - not anyone with considerable wealth or high income. And to the extent that anyone with a bit more is impacted, the wealthy - as OG and Lothario point out - will simply rearrange their affairs to avoid loss. Battlers can't do that, so the pension will be their only option.

    If you want Greens and Labor to prevail - for whatever reason - the common sense approach is to support demands that they withdraw from their wrongful FC policy and encourage Australians to work and save, so they can continue to contribute to funding welfare for those in genuine need, and so that we can afford some sensible changes to our lifestyles to reduce pollution and environmental harm as far as it is within our power.
    Anonymous
    22nd Dec 2018
    7:15pm
    BTW. I DO actively campaign against Adani, in favour of koala protection, and against coal seam gas mining/fracking. But I oppose or support POLICIES based on my assessment of benefit or harm - NOT political parties. And overall the Greens are hypocritical and pushing social engineering that will do serious damage to our society.

    I actively oppose FC and denounce any party that supports it because Shorten's policy is patently unfair, promoted dishonestly, and threatens harm to ALL AUSTRALIANS - whether they realise it or not. When share values are threatened and investment in Australian comp-anies reduce in favour of foreign investment or property investment, everyone will suffer. And pushing more SFRs onto pensions can only do enormous harm.
    GrayComputing
    26th Dec 2018
    12:53am
    Interesting how when Get UP and others like me help block the $50 BILLION that was to go to the super and the companies that pay no tax has now turned around as sudden windfall profit budget surplus.
    Then the same LP people have the gall to try and pork barrel us with a mere 1/2 Billion.
    What about using this " miracle windfall" to stop all asset testing on all the Stupid Centrelink tests like the pensioner who earns another $15 is penalised
    Anonymous
    26th Dec 2018
    1:51pm
    Don't hold your breath for any politician to support such a sensible idea, GrayComputing. They have their own agenda, and it has nothing to do with enhancing the quality of life for the rest of us.
    Ragamuffin
    27th Dec 2018
    7:31pm
    I have read through the policies, and tried to understand the political-ese. Before anyone makes more comments; lets see what kind of a mess the political parties will make. And see who tells the biggest whoppers. Ragamuffin