Government plans to impose a lifetime ban on refugees

The PM and the Immigration Minister plan to impose a lifetime ban on refugees.

The Government plans to impose a lifetime ban on refugees

Malcolm Turnbull and Immigration Minister Peter Dutton have revealed plans to stop refugees, who came by boat and are being held in offshore detention centres on Manus Island and Nauru, from ever coming to Australia.

The Government’s intentions to introduce a lifetime ban on immigrants held in detention centres from entering Australia has been branded “ridiculous” by Opposition Leader Bill Shorten, who has accused the Prime Minister of capitulating to the far right wing in his party.

The lifetime ban has attracted criticism from across the world, with claims that it breaches international treaty obligations.

"It seems ridiculous to me that a genuine refugee who settles in the US or Canada and becomes a US or Canadian citizen is banned from visiting Australia as a tourist, businessman or businesswoman 40 years down the track," Mr Shorten told Fairfax Media. "Whether he likes it or not, refugees such as Frank Lowy, Gustav Nossal and Hieu Van Le have made a huge contribution to Australia. As an Australian, that's something I'm very proud of.

"Of course people who come by people smuggler should not be allowed to settle here – we will never allow the people smugglers back in business."

Mr Shorten went on to describe Mr Turnbull as a prisoner of his own party’s right-wing extremists, discussing how, last week, the PM was “happy to trade a vote for weaker gun laws” and how now he’s chasing the votes of “One Nation senators to fight off Tony Abbott and keep his job”.

"He's earning the praise of Pauline Hanson – I hope he's proud of that,” he continued. "The old Malcolm Turnbull would never have proposed this to keep the extremists in his party happy.”  

Malcolm Turnbull argues that the ban is the only way the Government can prevent people from boarding boats in order to enter the country, but that it is still “constantly looking for resettlement opportunities for the people that the Labor Party left at Nauru and Manus”.

But since the Government claims that it has already stopped the boats, one Labor source is sceptical of the proposed ban.

"It's up to the Government to explain why it is that this law is needed, given that they keep saying the boats have stopped," said the source.

Even members of the Coalition aren’t sure about the policy, with Health Minister Sussan Ley put on the spot on the ABC’s Q&A last night, denying that the government's asylum seeker policy would apply to people already living in Australia – a statement that contradicts those made by Immigration Minister Peter Dutton.

The Government’s ban also applies to asylum seekers who settle in another country and later seek to enter Australia as tourists, but when asked if people on bridging visas living in Australia would be affected by the legislation, Ms Ley initially responded, "no".

Q&A host Tony Jones was quick to correct Ms Ley, saying that when asked the same question, Peter Dutton's office had responded “yes, the answer is yes … a relatively small number" would be affected, including those detained at the Manus Island or Nauru detention centres from July 19, 2013 who had returned home.

What do you think of the proposed new lifetime ban?

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    COMMENTS

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    Not a Bludger
    1st Nov 2016
    10:16am
    Excellent policy - just get on with it.
    Old Geezer
    1st Nov 2016
    10:26am
    I agree as they are economic refugees not genuine refugees. If they were genuine they would be glad of safe haven where they are.
    Pablo
    1st Nov 2016
    12:36pm
    Totally agree. If they had the money to pay a people smuggler and if they had the money to come with their mobile phones and iPads then they would have tried to come here legally. They are just looking for a way to come in the back door and pose a threat to Australia and Australians.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    12:49pm
    What kind of threat?

    Tell me more about those mobile phones and iPads. Sounds like Bolt to me.
    Rae
    1st Nov 2016
    2:20pm
    The threat is to our Social Security safety net Barak. A very large percentage of people smuggled refugees live entirely on the tax payer teat and it is unsustainable if hundreds of boatloads continue to rock up.

    I can understand the lure of a better life but possibly a better idea would be to fix their own countries and cultures.

    Drowning crossing an ocean in the hands of criminals must be stopped and it seems this may be the only way to do it.

    Being cruel to be kind sort of situation.

    Stay on Nauru or Manus, go to Malaysia or go home. There are choices.
    marls
    1st Nov 2016
    2:24pm
    Agree about time otherwise we will end up like Europe
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    2:54pm
    Rae, tell us more about that "very large percentage of people smuggled refugees (who) live entirely on the tax payer teat".

    I don't believe you.
    MB100D
    1st Nov 2016
    4:43pm
    Just like we have far too many deadbeat locals living off the taxpayer teat. And continually bleat for more.
    Rae
    2nd Nov 2016
    8:09am
    The recent study gives figures of 90% unemployed for over 6 months.
    60% never work and never worked in their home country either.
    15% speak no English and have not attended school.
    Mostly no fault of their own.

    This is a tragic situation. I have been to see for myself the chaos in the Middle East. I had a son working in Kurdistan up until Daesh threatened. There are no trees, scarce supplies of water, no jobs and far too many little children.

    Babies and kids everywhere and women in sacks because their men have never had to have any self control. The culture is not sustainable.

    Lovely people though who are now fighting for their lives. A tragedy indeed.

    Egypt was a basket case as well with rationing of everything and huge numbers of children. Rubbish everywhere and total systemic collapse through sheer over population.

    I don't want to see it here.

    I do feel for these people and the people of Africa, which is a basket case too. And South America. China.

    In fact far too many places and all over populated. Not enough resources, not enough water or infrastructure and no money distributed to 99% of the people.

    Millions will be on boats risking lives if we let it continue and that is the unpalatable facts.

    We are letting it happen here right now. The growth of homelessness is outrageous but of course those people aren't getting all the compassion and pleas are they?
    Rae
    2nd Nov 2016
    10:21am
    Although Barak I'm not entirely sure of the truth of the figures as only 7% of migrants are unemployed and I can't see why refugees would have such high rates of unemployment especially when demand for workers for less lucrative unskilled jobs is high in certain areas.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2016
    11:23am
    I simply don't believe the claims that a lot of asylum seekers end up on long term welfare. I have seen no independent, well sourced evidence to back those claims up. Too many of the figures seem to come from anti-immigration sources.

    A good government report telling us the truth please.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2016
    5:56pm
    Since the long-lasting and repetitive discussion over what actually constitutes Social Security here, and seeing how that 'net' in one way or another covers ALL Australians in some way - I would venture to say that indeed many would be on some form of Social Security.

    Could be children's benefits, tax concessions for family, childcare - you name it.

    Generalised statements on their being '90% welfare-dependent' just don't cut it - UNTIL such time as government(s) here clearly delineate what is and what is not Social Security.

    Once that is done, then we can look at realistic figures.

    Thank you all for your input.
    buby
    4th Nov 2016
    12:57pm
    gEEZ your funny Barak, do you really think even our government would tell you the truth, and nothing but the truth, for heavens sake you only have to look around when you out and about, and see whose wondering the streets these days, and you would know.
    OH and don't forget we have lost many industries to overseas, we are have got many immirgrants in, that don't speak english, and are wondering the streets carrying alchol, and not really able to work, cause there is NONE. IF our own youngsters can t get a job, and they speak english, what hope of the older one, getting one. YOU must walk around with you eyes shut ole boy. OR you don't live in areas, where they are many.
    Trust me there are many Welfare dependents. I even spoke to some when i was younger, a young black man, who bragged to me about having 10 sisters and 10 brothers. and his father had many wifes. If that is being dependant on the system i don't know what is???
    And that was like 20yrs ago. WEll they have all grown up by now. But are they working i'll betcha they are not..... For sure many are not....!!!
    MR knowitall
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2016
    1:02pm
    Unlike you, I don't claim to know it all.

    But I will always seek better sources than your rants for facts about refugees. (And "black" people, however they came into this conversation.)
    Fredklaus
    1st Nov 2016
    10:18am
    If this is passed,I will vote for greens forever
    Sen.Cit.90
    1st Nov 2016
    12:09pm
    Thanks for that comment it confirms my opposition to the Greens and will never vote for them.
    Pablo
    1st Nov 2016
    12:38pm
    After being stupid enough to vote for the greenies in 2010, I made the same vow Sen.Cit.84 They are truly the dangerous ones in Australian politics.
    wally
    1st Nov 2016
    1:44pm
    Looks like Fred and Barak are on the side of the people smugglers. As far as ructions from Tasmanian parliamentarians in the Labor Party who oppose the permanent visa ban on the queue jumper / boat people claiming to be seeking asylum, maybe the "refugees" should be sent to live in Tasmania. Let the Tasmanian voters enjoy the delights of sharing their island with the boat people.
    ex PS
    1st Nov 2016
    2:43pm
    Looks like some people are using their brains and not letting self serving politicians and brainless shock jocks do their thinking for them.
    My next vote for one of the so called major party's will go to the party that does away with the senseless, expensive and cruel policy of off shore detention, otherwise I will keep voting for Independents.
    Most informed people already know that most of the asylum seekers are and were genuine, just because ill-informed people believe something, it does not make it true.
    The true test of whether one persons point of view is valid is the truth behind the statements they make to prove that point, if they have to tell untruths in order to justify the position they hold their point of view becomes invalid.
    wendan31
    1st Nov 2016
    6:42pm
    I would like you to go live in their country and see the treatment you get as an Australian, you will have to live by their laws and rules, their people will certainly NOT change rules and laws for you, sick to death of what we do for them and then all they can do is complain when they are getting looked after here in Australia, they are degrading the whole world. The greens are the most ridiculous idiots I have ever come across, the party should be banned from government.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    6:44pm
    What laws have we changed for "them"?
    wendan31
    1st Nov 2016
    7:01pm
    We close community swimming pools for the women, there are days that Australian women cannot use these pools, a bike rider cannot go into a bank or government office wearing his helmet, yet these people in burkas are covered from head to toe, we cannot tell if they are male or female for a start. Barak I think you need to change your racist attitude - white trash - HUH.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    7:10pm
    I agree with you about the burka.

    Do you approve of Fernwood gyms?

    There were no changed laws in your list. I think you got that claim wrong.

    I did not say "white trash". Someone else did, sarcastically.
    ex PS
    2nd Nov 2016
    2:49pm
    Catholic Nuns cover themselves up pretty well, shall we ban the habit as well. Or does it depend on the shade or colour of the skin? Interesting that you complain about not being able to tell the gender of these folk, are you looking for a potential spouse?
    Masonite
    1st Nov 2016
    10:24am
    So an excellent policy is one that will effect a handful of people? The truth is, it is a political attempt to get Pauline Hansen voters to vote LNP and to be able to say Labor is weak on border protection. Instead of introducing bills that have no effect other than to win votes, what about getting on with legislation to improve the lives of all Australians.
    mogo51
    1st Nov 2016
    10:32am
    I support the legislation and proposal to ban 'boat people'. It will drive home to prospective refugees not to bother trying to come here.
    Marlo
    1st Nov 2016
    10:51am
    This is necessary to stop the people smugglers. Most of these refugees travel through other safe countries where they should be applying for asylum, not being selective about which country they desire. Australia is still fulfilling it's obligation by taking refugees through the correct channels.
    Ginty 01
    1st Nov 2016
    11:11am
    I agree
    Sen.Cit.90
    1st Nov 2016
    12:05pm
    Spot On Marlo; I also agree.
    bebby
    1st Nov 2016
    12:12pm
    Marino, I agree
    bebby
    1st Nov 2016
    12:13pm
    Oops, Mario
    ex PS
    1st Nov 2016
    2:47pm
    I thought that most of the countries that refugees travel through are not signatories to the refugee convention. They unlike Australia have the guts to be upfront and admit that they are out of step with the rest of the world. They don't pretend to be fair and then set up concentration camps.
    MB100D
    1st Nov 2016
    4:45pm
    Didn't all you White Trash come here by boat?
    marls
    1st Nov 2016
    6:35pm
    Retired knowall
    Your a racist twit
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    7:31pm
    :-) :-) :-) :-)
    ex PS
    2nd Nov 2016
    2:57pm
    Retired Knowall most immigrants that came to this country up to the mid 60"s came by boat. So I guess that if you or your parents or grandparents came in that period then your description could fit them, but only you would know that for sure.
    I can attest to the fact that most of my parents and their friends that came by boat were hardworking, honest and became an asset to this country.
    But I will concede that the people that you or your parents associated with could have been white trash as you described.
    buby
    4th Nov 2016
    1:06pm
    OH my goodness exPs there you go as did my parents they came and they intergrated and worked hard, but they were lucky also cause there were jobs to be had.
    But now!!! where ARE the jobs. Gone off shore OLe boy eh!!!
    ex PS
    4th Nov 2016
    6:10pm
    buby, good to hear from a prodigy of immigrant Australian's that speaks from experience, I for one can't thank my parents enough for taking the risk.
    We all need to look at who we do business with and try to ensure that jobs are kept in the country that we have decided to call home.
    Batara
    1st Nov 2016
    10:57am
    For those jumping on the bandwagon, can we put you down as supporting retrospective legislation then?
    Err ... hang on. Isn't the Conservative push strongly opposed to retrospective law? I thought that was the message about changes to superannuation proposed to rein in the wealthy scrooges rorting our economy. I am confused. When is retrospective legislation a good thing?
    Tom Tank
    1st Nov 2016
    11:39am
    When it serves a political purpose such as diverting attention away from other issues upon which the government are weak and under pressure.
    KSS
    1st Nov 2016
    12:36pm
    The proposed legislation is to reinforce the declaration in 2013 by Mr Rudd that 'unauthorised arrivals' will never be settled in Australia. It will simply remove all doubt as to the veracity of that statement.
    Tom Tank
    1st Nov 2016
    6:26pm
    The declaration itself made that policy clear so why legislate it?
    Purely political and quite meaningless apart from, as I said, diverting attention from other issues.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    6:35pm
    Oh, it wins votes too, sadly.
    grounded
    1st Nov 2016
    11:00am
    Now your talking Malcolm.....long overdue, a life ban on 'country shoppers'!

    Needs to be made retrospective; for anyone who has arrived by people smuggler cruisers - sampans, over the last 16 years.....not just back to 2013!

    Yes...bring in legitimate refugees....by our front door. More than high time we put final finish to these 'country shopping' cretins....
    Rod63
    1st Nov 2016
    7:59pm
    He's not my talking Malcolm!!

    1st Nov 2016
    11:16am
    "A lifetime ban on refugees attempting to enter Australia illegally" - a good, WELL overdue idea, BUT how does PM Bozo propose to keep track of the offenders? By fingerprints, I should think, as paper documents can be doctored and mean sweet FA.
    Rosret
    1st Nov 2016
    11:23am
    I support the legislation and I can not understand why the media is so biased even to the point where the Q & A host talks down the minister and won't let her speak. They are trying to resolve the issue of people in overseas detention. They don't want anyone going from Indonesia via the detention centre to another country and then here to Australia. We have an immigration policy and we have a foreign aid policy - we can't look after 7 billion people. If you are in charge of governing the country you need order and that's what we as a nation are doing.
    KSS
    1st Nov 2016
    12:38pm
    It would also remove the backdoor entry via New Zealand should NZ agree to take some of those from Manus Island and Nauru.
    Rod63
    1st Nov 2016
    2:08pm
    Tony was correcting her, Rosret. She wasn't aware of some information about refugees currently on Australia. He wasn't "talking her down".

    1st Nov 2016
    11:24am
    As proven by the posts already here, this hate-anyone-who's-different policy is sure to win the Hanson vote and voters. That's its goal.

    This country has always had a racist underbelly.
    KSS
    1st Nov 2016
    12:41pm
    This has nothing to do with 'hate-anyone-who's-different' at all. That is evidenced by the comments that encourage the acceptance of more from regulated refugee camps i.e. those without the means to buy a seat on a boat from Indonesia and the costs of all the flights to get there.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    12:51pm
    You have no idea of the real history of boat people. Your "facts" have come from poor, manipulative sources.
    wally
    1st Nov 2016
    2:03pm
    By "poor, manipulative sources" as quoted by Barak, would this be in contrast to the over funded and biased leftist propaganda organisation, the taxpayer funded ABC?

    As far as manipulation goes, the ABC's "Expose'" on the 7:30 Report on the plight of the refugees on Nauru was exposed and being one sided and biased by Channel 9's Current Affair TV program. Will we see an updated version by the ABC called "Nauru Revisited"? Will the ABC "investigative activist/journalists" present us with a similarly warped view if the Manus Island detainees? Or does the " poor manipulative" ABC lack the funds to mount such efforts in their indoctrination campaign on behalf of their Greenie supporters?
    Rae
    1st Nov 2016
    2:33pm
    Barak these people have numerous countries to choose to stay in along the way. Most of them of similar culture and religion as well.

    We take over 200 000 immigrants each year. Millions in the past few decades quite happily. So it isn't about differences or race but about the law as such and stopping criminals from people trafficking and people from drowning.

    Just screaming racist when you don't get an open border policy is not going to cut it any longer I'm afraid.

    If you think we are racist here you obviously haven't travelled very far. And not just racists there are a whole lot of places where they are sexist to an insane degree.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    2:53pm
    Being less racist than a few other cultures doesn't make us angels.

    I do not want an open border policy. Nobody does. That is shock jock language, and does not contribute to intelligent discussion.
    MB100D
    1st Nov 2016
    4:47pm
    Didn't all you White Trash come here by boat?
    marls
    1st Nov 2016
    6:40pm
    Retired knowall
    You poor lost soul you made this racist no one else mentioned a persons colour
    Rae
    2nd Nov 2016
    8:20am
    Retired Knowall The last 10 million or so have arrived since 1990 and practically all came by plane so the answer is no.

    However seeing as none have ever experienced a full blown Aussie drought of the last big one in 1963 I suppose a lot might just fly away again because they can on their duel passports.

    Certainly the couple of million visa holders currently living here will be gone too I suppose.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2016
    11:25am
    Rae, your figures are absolute rubbish, re both numbers since 1990, and the last big drought.

    Produce some reliable evidence to prove me wrong, and I will apologise.
    ianjs
    2nd Nov 2016
    11:32am
    So @wally, the ABC (which has a statutory obligation to provide a balanced coverage) is "one sided and biased"?

    But you are willing to accept Channel 9's analysis (whose only obligation is to make a buck for the proprietors and has always reflected that agenda with sensationalist crap)?

    You might want to rethink your idea of "poor, manipulative sources".
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2016
    11:38am
    The ABC is the only truly independent media outlet we have.

    All the others are beholden to their need to make money, and to their advertisers, often the same companies who donate to the Liberal Party.

    That the ABC's position is different at times should be seen as a positive, and as no surprise.
    wally
    2nd Nov 2016
    1:49pm
    The ABC's position has been consistently leftward leaning since the Howard years. This can not be seen as being "sometimes different" in that context. This is in flagrant violation of the ABC charter to provide "fair and balanced reporting of the news". The attitude of ABC interviewers and presenters such as Leigh Sales and Tony Jones as displayed toward LNP politicians betrays their leftist bias. I have to admit I enjoyed watching Kerry O'Brien's interviews with John Howard when it was all O'Brien could do to keep from foaming at the mouth during those interviews, such was his hatred of John Howard.

    So Barak and others might find the ABC our only independent media outlet because it is funded by the Australian taxpayer. Unfortunately, unlike other media outlets, it does not provide value for money for the amount of taxpayers dollars that are lavished on that organisation.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2016
    1:56pm
    I presented rational argument as to why the ABC is the only independent broadcaster we have.

    You, wally, simply said "I don't like what they do".

    Maybe they ARE balanced. Comparing them to others who have an obvious, profit driven bias does not prove otherwise.
    buby
    4th Nov 2016
    1:10pm
    This country was built off the backs of immigrants, and they did intergrate, and didn't cause too many problems. They didn't go back overseas to fight wars, then want to come home again. They intergrated, stayed home looked after their children and wifes.
    OH and i did i tell you, Government would never really give you any info, i'm sure of it in case you should want to stick it to em.
    Media well they are a farce, and most can't spell either.
    And the pollies have gone to POT.
    They Need to be straightened out, and i'm sure Pauline will help in doing that lol :)
    margie
    1st Nov 2016
    11:32am
    We need to be looking very carefully at all people claiming refugee status, not just boat people. Particularly large groups of men as seen flooding into Europe. Of concern is also so called children who appear to be mid twenties plus arriving in Britain. Can we learn from the mistakes made overseas and vet these economic refugees thoroughly. I also believe we need to be sure Australians have homes, jobs and security before country shoppers. Genuine refugees who will be glad to live in this country and contribute, of course are welcome. Australians have always welcomed them in previous decades and they have assimilated, while contributing and not been a burden on the tax payer.
    Sen.Cit.90
    1st Nov 2016
    11:53am
    Well said margie.
    One has too wonder why all those fit looking young men are not defending their own country instead of running away?
    An old TV soapy last night 'Foyles War' showed how hundreds of small boats underwent the hazards of the Channel and the bombing and shelling by the German hordes to rescue Britain's ill equipped Army from the shores of Dunkirk France after the rest of Europe had capitulated. No one ran away, quite the opposite; thousands of men made their way to Britain to fight against the would be oppressors.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    12:12pm
    If you don't know "why all those fit looking young men are not defending their own country", maybe you should find out, rather than making racist assumptions.
    wally
    1st Nov 2016
    2:15pm
    Somehow, during the course of World War 2, It would be impossible to imagine a boat load of Pommies washing up on an Australian beach begging for asylum because they were afraid of being struck by bombs being dropped by the Luftwaffe. Obviously the old British tradition of "Women and Children First" as applied to ship wreck and similar disasters does not apply to our current bunch of "Refugees".

    Forty years ago, the Vietnamese boat people brought their entire families with them, in contrast to our Middle Easterners. Why is the situation?
    suzyq
    1st Nov 2016
    2:16pm
    Then why don't you tell s Barak? I personally feel we should be taking the people in the camps, waiting, that will never get here because of all the queue jumpers. The males should be fighting for their country.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    2:50pm
    Against us?
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    4:10pm
    Wake up Barak They would be in their own Country's Defending them against Daish, ISIS Or whatever the Barbarians are called now ! :-(
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    4:16pm
    Ah, so it's only Shiite Muslim boat people you hate. Right?

    The Tamils are OK?
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    4:39pm
    WTF are you talking about, ?? I couldn't care if they were Cross-eyed Pelicans ! As long as they behaved themselves ! Which isn't the case with the Latest Imports.. Apex Gangs WTF !!
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    4:44pm
    The Apex Gang are young criminals. Treat them just like any other young criminals. We have laws for that.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    7:30pm
    Margie.. I can see you are well versed on the Subject Just like I am ! But you never see a mention of this in our Media ??? And Barak and a couple of others on here are new arrivals from Pluto so wouldn't really know what is REALLY going on, On Earth :-(
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    8:16pm
    Evidence please particolor.
    Abby
    2nd Nov 2016
    8:22am
    Well said Margie ... like Britain did the Brexit ... we should leave United Nations.
    Rae
    2nd Nov 2016
    8:31am
    Barak I've been there. The main three factions of muslims will fight each other forever and have done so since the religion began.

    It is about power and control and always has been.

    In my opinion all these Angel inspired religions are dangerous.

    Most of the problems are due to the insane belief that that birth control is evil and men cannot control their sexual urges.

    Read A Thousand and One Nights Barak. The cultural beliefs explained quite brutally.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2016
    11:27am
    There is no ban on birth control in Islam.

    Where do you people get your "facts"?
    aceh
    1st Nov 2016
    11:43am
    Punishing those who are seeking refugee in a boat does not stop or deter those who would pray on the desperation of others: ie the people smugglers.
    My Dad was a boat person from Germany in 1956. My Mum's family came out by boat in 1800's as free settlers from UK and Europe, my husband's family have a convict etc and all arrived by boat. Tony Abott and Julia Gillard both came by boat and they were economic migrants!
    KSS
    1st Nov 2016
    12:57pm
    There is a big difference between the 'economic migrants' of the 50s and 60s and those of today.

    Those of past decades came through the 'front door' with their identity intact and their papers in order and ready for inspection. They did not set out to deceive what they hoped would be their host country and they came ready to work for a 'better life'. Even the convict in your family did that!

    Those 'economic migrants' of today hiding among the genuine refugee population are cowards, liars and cheats who destroy their papers to hide their true identity and expect to be handed everything they demand.

    I know which type of economic migrant I'd prefer. I also know which type of refugee I'd prefer to take in also.
    tendj
    1st Nov 2016
    1:29pm
    Well said KSS totally agree there are proper ways to get here use them not try to enter by the back door
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    1:36pm
    Ah, if only the system was that simple.

    Millions of displaced people have no access to "the proper ways"
    marls
    1st Nov 2016
    2:31pm
    Kss
    Agree I came with my family in the 50's and we were invited by the Ozzie gvt and at no time did we try to change the laws and culture and demand our own way and want everything free we all worked very hard
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    2:49pm
    Who is trying to change the laws today?

    Well sourced examples please.
    marls
    1st Nov 2016
    4:00pm
    Barak
    Open your eyes. and ears and see and hear what's going on in Australia
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    4:14pm
    What a silly comment. Of course my eyes and ears are open. I see no credible attempts to change the laws of this country.

    Please show us one.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    5:15pm
    Go on You/Tube and have a look at the latest "The Geller Report"
    also "Jihad Watch" and for a Newspaper " Conservative Brief" then pop back with your order of how many of them you want :-)
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    5:56pm
    YouTube is not a credible source.

    Wouldn't trust "Conservative Brief" to be unbiased either.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    6:05pm
    No they Bash the Atrocities the Muslims Commit in America a bit don't they !! Or the people there wouldn't know what was going on ???
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    6:37pm
    Well, that's just it, isn't it?

    How can you be sure these "atrocities" happen, if they are only reported in a self-proclaimed conservative journal?

    Oh, I know! There are YouTube videos too.

    I seek more middle of the road sources.
    Gee Whiz
    1st Nov 2016
    11:51am
    If only the government looked after "fair dinkum" Australians as good as they do for immigrants, legal or otherwise.

    Turnbull, has at long last made a right decision; even if he did steal the policy from One Nation.

    It shows he's running scared of the rising popularity of Pauline Hanson.

    John Howard did the same thing after condemning One Nation as racist.

    He startled having conniptions when he saw how Pauline Hanson approval rating was higher than his. .

    He finally went to pieces, scared he would lose the next election and set stealing nearly all of Hanson's policies.

    Typical of the LNP cowards.

    Now Turnbull is pulling the same stunt. But he's too late.

    His use by date has already expired and he is now on borrowed time. He is unlikely to last until the next election and if he does it will lead to the annihilation of the LNP.
    Sen.Cit.90
    1st Nov 2016
    12:01pm
    Pauline Hanson's One Nation has become the latest ALP's scare mongering against the LNP.
    What idiots they are; it's a scare tactic that will improve the One Nation's standing.
    Baby Huey
    1st Nov 2016
    12:02pm
    I agree. Other countries are doing the same.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    12:11pm
    Can't we think for ourselves?
    grannyjay
    1st Nov 2016
    12:05pm
    The government is NOT banning refugees, just those who come by illegal means.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    12:10pm
    ....as defined by the government.

    Does anyone see a circular argument here?
    KSS
    1st Nov 2016
    1:00pm
    Only yours Barak
    SGW
    1st Nov 2016
    2:03pm
    There is no illegal means look at the refugee convention Australia signed
    ex PS
    1st Nov 2016
    2:55pm
    Entering the country by illegal means, a lot of people enter the country by boat, are they here illegally, do we need to turn the Queen Mary around the next time it tries to drop off all those illegal tourists?
    SGW, it may be OK if it is "as defined by the government" but I tend to agree with you, it is not illegal to seek asylum, but this government has a simple approach to these problems, just put illegal in front of an activity and they can over ride all sorts of human rights.
    MB100D
    1st Nov 2016
    4:50pm
    Didn't all you White Trash come here by boat?
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    4:55pm
    My Great Great Great Great Grandpappy Might have !! :-)
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    5:02pm
    I think he was booted out of Ireland for Pinching Half a slice of Bread off a Pommy Immigrunt to Ireland !! :-(
    Not Senile Yet!
    1st Nov 2016
    12:09pm
    Will do anything to Stay in Power...Corrupt Mongols....Vote them ALL OUT!!!
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    5:17pm
    CORUPT MONGOLS ...:-) :-) :-) :-)
    taylah
    1st Nov 2016
    12:12pm
    Great news our PM has finally made a positive decision. There are thousands of genuine refugees who wait in camps to go through proper processes, these are real refugees these poor people are the ones to take in, not the opportunists whom somehow have found the money, who knows how, to pay the extornonist fees to the people smugglers, lets bring in the poor mothers with their kids, the fit men we see should remain home fighting for a better life not taking the easy way out.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    12:19pm
    Who do you want those fit men to fight against?
    Rae
    1st Nov 2016
    2:55pm
    How do you know they are not soldiers and are not invading? They have no identification.If they had not thrown away their paperwork they may have been processed.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    2:57pm
    ROTFLMAO.

    If they truly were invading, it's a pretty unreliable way to go about it.
    marls
    1st Nov 2016
    3:55pm
    Taylah
    Agree with you
    katep50
    1st Nov 2016
    12:19pm
    It saddens me to read so many mean comments by people who are presumably in my demographic ie over 65 and retired. You miserable lot! Maybe the 'older and wiser' and those who have compassion are busy doing better things ......
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    12:22pm
    Sadly, too many get their news from Murdoch and commercial TV, and opinions from Bolt and Jones. (Though the latter laughingly call them "facts", not "opinions".)
    PAYEdmydues
    1st Nov 2016
    1:08pm
    Agree.
    :(
    How many 'economic' retirees are there wanting more they didn't earn while hating those 'economic' refugees. Many from countries we've been warring.
    Rod63
    1st Nov 2016
    2:35pm
    Exactly what I was thinking, katep50. How can so many older Australians be so mean and cruel thinking.
    ex PS
    1st Nov 2016
    3:01pm
    Sadly they seem to be so hard up for something to do they spend all day listening to shock jocks and have forgotten how to think for themselves.
    It puts a lie to the belief that with age comes wisdom.
    Don't worry about economic retirees PAYEdmydues. This government will eventually put "illegal" in front of their description and have them all processed off shore.
    marls
    1st Nov 2016
    3:58pm
    Barak
    My opinion comes from realatives living overseas and experiencing first hand and not to mention my 25yrs working in criminal justice face to face with ppl
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    4:13pm
    And all the bad people were boat people?
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    5:59pm
    The ones on Bligh's Ship were Rotters :-(
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    6:03pm
    Which ones? Those loyal to him, or the mutineers?
    Incognito
    1st Nov 2016
    12:42pm
    This is a political stunt isn't it? I am confused, hasn't Mal already stopped the boats? What is he getting at? Should he not help those stuck in limbo in Nauru and Manus? Does he know the real suffering these people are going through? Is he only going to allow those with money through the front door?
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    12:52pm
    Yes, they stopped the boats, and nobody has any idea where the people who were on those boats are now.

    This isn't about caring. It's about hate.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    1:25pm
    No, it really has nothing to do with hate. It is about trying to preserve freedom, democracy, safety for residents, a good economy and standard of living, and prevent increasing crime rates and terrorism - or are these the things that YOU hate?
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    1:33pm
    Historically Australia's economy has always been helped by immigration.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    2:09pm
    Immigration, not invasion or intrusion.
    wally
    1st Nov 2016
    2:25pm
    In the 20th Century, the post war migrants contributed to Australia by finding jobs and working hard to succeed and contribute to Australian prosperity. Our 21st Century Middle Eastern migrants' main contribution to Australia is creating an increase in welfare dependence.
    Incognito
    1st Nov 2016
    2:28pm
    I am sure they would work if allowed or able to find work. Australia needed post war migrants as there were heaps of jobs to be done. We need to create more jobs instead of sending jobs overseas for cheaper labor so businesses can make more profits. And that goes for all unemployed. Put the retirement age back to 65 to make more jobs for younger people too. Help one parent stay at home with the kids instead of both working too.
    ex PS
    1st Nov 2016
    3:07pm
    You are right Fast Eddie, it is not about hate, it is about votes, and that is even more disgusting.
    Most of the arguments used against immigrants today were used against immigrants from Britain, Greece, Italy, Vietnam, China and several other countries, they were incorrect then and are just as incorrect now, it is just an excuse from people who can't compete for their own failures.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    3:09pm
    'Immigration, not invasion or intrusion'...sounds like a 'Hansonism' if ever I heard one. Massively simplistic solutions to massively complex problems.

    The world is being swamped with refugees and asylum seekers displaced through war in Syria and Iraq, and don't know where the rest of you live but in regional and rural Australia I'm certainly not seeing an 'invasion' of asylum seekers and refugees....And the numbers coming to Oz are miniscule when compared to what is happening in Europe and elsewhere.

    But as with the case with the Hansonites of the world, they never really solve problems, just create 'scapegoats' - 20 years ago with Hanson it was indigenous Australians and Asians - in 2016 it's Muslims.

    But Labor is as guilty as the LNP in relation to its treatment of asylum seekers and basically the whole policy to date has been bi-partisan - so get a bit nauseated seeing Shorten taking the high moral ground on this one to be honest.

    Likewise believe they should close these taxpayer funded costing- us-a-fortune concentration camps on Nauru and Manus immediately, and process everyone here in Australia and those who are found to be legitimate should be allowed to stay....

    The poverty in Australian society is historical and systemic meaning the groups who are poor have basically always been on the lowest rung i.e. indigenous Australians, the mentally ill, single parents - the marginalised generally....Governments need to address systemic historical societal structures that keep people in poverty inter-generationally i.e. The Mount Druitts, remote indigenous communities etc. etc. and we might see real lasting change...Not simplistic answers from Hansonites looking for scapegoats.
    Rae
    1st Nov 2016
    3:14pm
    Perhaps some of those refugees currently on welfare here now could go pick the summer bumper crop. That would set a good example.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    3:16pm
    I was actually pleased to see Shorten take an openly different position from the LNP on this one. Yes, he has been complicit in all the evils up until now, but maybe there's hope yet.

    Part of the reason for this is the LNP's appalling position in the polls. Bill will be seeing that too, and can finally turn back into a compassionate human being.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    3:18pm
    Rae, tell us more about all those refugees currently on welfare. How many, please?
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    3:35pm
    Why do you ask Questions to Rile People, when you know the Answers ? :-( This is Not the Australia I knew and Grew up in !!
    Its Disgusting what's going on !! And if our Dumb You Down Media Told a Quarter of it, Even YOU would be HORRIFIED !! :-( :-(
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    3:39pm
    Because I have seen absolutely no real evidence that a disproportionate number of Muslims are on welfare. I don't believe it.

    I have only seen such claims from Murdoch, conservative politicians, Andrew Bolt and shock jocks, none of them to be believed.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    3:48pm
    Hundreds of Disgusted people wringing in on Talk Back Radio aren't LIARS !! I think this has gone far Enough Personally !! :-( :-( Id HATE to live where some of them a Forced to live. :-( :-( They are not even game to go out in some Suburbs now !! And definitely NOT AT NIGHT !!:-(
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    4:09pm
    Hundreds of Disgusted people wringing in on Talk Back Radio are the worst source of truth that I could imagine.

    That's not evidence of a problem at all.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    7:31pm
    There IS evidence from quite a number of sources (see wikipedia.org>wiki>Muslim) that CONSERVATIVELY 16%-25% of Muslims are radical and believe that violence and terrorism against civilians in order to achieve their goals is justified, and these wackos influence the others in their lot. So much for your "poor Islam refugees"!
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    7:39pm
    Fast Eddie You will be told in a Minute that Wikipedia is not a Good sauce of Knowledge by Guess Who :-) :-) The Truth can only be found in the Koran !! :-)
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    7:44pm
    OO ! Hang on, I'll get picked up for that :-( its Quran :-)
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    7:56pm
    You must be referring to BORAT.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    8:19pm
    I have no interest in what's in the Koran in this conversation. Just stop believing what you hear on talkback radio.

    Or show me some reliable evidence for your claims.

    Or stop believing them.
    Spitfire
    1st Nov 2016
    12:43pm
    Who cares which political party gets the brownie point for getting this policy over the line.
    If you can't get across our border through the established channels, then you don't belong here now or in the future. It is my understanding that Kevin 07 (Rudd) first mentioned this idea; politicians stop pontificating and get on with making it the law of the land.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    12:54pm
    Established channels, eh? Tell me what they look like in Mosul right now.
    KSS
    1st Nov 2016
    1:06pm
    Well it certainly doesn't look like a leaky boat half way across the world from Mosul now does it Barak? Exactly how many countries would they have to cross to get to the embarkation port in Indonesia?
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    1:34pm
    So what?

    What gives you more of a right to be here than a citizen of a country we have helped to destroy?
    KSS
    1st Nov 2016
    3:35pm
    Check the refugee convention under which refugees have the right to protection. They are supposed to make their claim in the first safe country they come to. That would NOT be Australia.

    That is why there is greater support for taking more refugees from the camps they may have been in for years waiting their turn.

    And what gives me a right to be here? I obeyed all the rules of the day when I came here!
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    3:41pm
    And, apart from laws newly invented to please the racists, so have the boat people.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    4:05pm
    You know what a Racist is Barak ... Someone who stands in the way of the Advance of Islam !!
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    4:11pm
    All of my Muslim friends are great people. How about yours?
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    7:11pm
    They wont talk to me :-( I eat Bacon !!
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    7:12pm
    I eat bacon. I drink beer and wine. I have many Muslim friends.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    7:20pm
    YES !! And the Hypocrites do to !!
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    8:02pm
    You're being very rude about people you obviously don't know.
    Spitfire
    2nd Nov 2016
    2:45pm
    I think you are all missing the point here, the issue has nothing to do with race, colour or creed.
    What the government of the day is trying to achieve is entry to this great country of ours by foreigners wherever they come from in a controlled and orderly/safe manner to protect us all from undesirables.
    Attempting to arrive by any means other than those permitted by our laws is a criminal act and the most effective deterrent is the proposed policy to refuse entry permanently.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2016
    2:51pm
    No.

    What the government of the day is trying to achieve is to win the votes of the Hansonites.

    It will at least partly work.
    PAYEdmydues
    1st Nov 2016
    1:00pm
    Makes me proud to be part of this racist xenophobic country. So good to read the comments from self centred Australians.
    NOT
    Rod63
    1st Nov 2016
    2:34pm
    Hear! Hear!
    ex PS
    1st Nov 2016
    3:09pm
    I travel quite a bit and used to be proud to be Australian, these days I try to keep it to myself. I'm not so proud of my country anymore, just disappointed and sad.
    biddi
    1st Nov 2016
    1:01pm
    The 'camps' look okay to me, free to come and go. I get the distinct
    impression that the kids talking on telly have been versed by those
    wanting a ticket to Australia.
    Incognito
    1st Nov 2016
    1:04pm
    Sure it is made to look that good by media, truth is people are suffering living in limbo for years, some children have not known anything else. Could you really live like that for years, no home, no future prospects, no way to make your own income, no hope, nothing to do everyday etc.?
    KSS
    1st Nov 2016
    1:26pm
    Are they better or worse than the camps Australia had in say the 1960s for ALL migrants?
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    1:30pm
    That's a good question KSS. I doubt if many folks now, even those who lived through those times, are even aware of those camps.
    ex PS
    1st Nov 2016
    3:13pm
    I spent 4 months in those camps as a child, the difference was my father was allowed to look for work and could move to any city in Australia once he found it. I didn't feel like I was worthless and I did not contemplate self harm or suicide, I had hope and a future.
    Loey
    1st Nov 2016
    1:11pm
    People-smuggling is a very dirty, cruel exercise. Above all, it is ILLEGAL!!!! It is purely a money rort for the smugglers, nothing more, nothing less. Surely everyone should be supporting any LEGAL means of bringing migrants to this country. Those smugglers will be watching very closely what happens here in Australia. The moment they sense a loophole, they will be right on to it, and back into business. NEVER DOUBT THAT!!! Any illegal activity does not deserve our support. We need strong laws to control such activities, and show the criminals that we are in control of our own country. If we show weakness, the criminals will push their agendas. I'm sorry, but we need to take a strong stand. It is absolutely essential! Otherwise, you may as well give up now.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    1:27pm
    Are you saying Oskar Schindler broke the law?

    And do you also condemn the Underground Railroad that helped free slaves in 19th century USA because it was illegal?

    As for giving up, seeing racists and haters like you in large numbers in this country is depressing me a lot.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    3:29pm
    What's Racist and Hating about not wanting to be Pushed around and Beaten & Robbed by a Certain Ideological Cult !! Its Daily now !!
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    3:35pm
    Seriously?

    Have YOU personally been "Pushed around and Beaten & Robbed by a Certain Ideological Cult" every day for some time now?

    I don't believe it.
    KSS
    1st Nov 2016
    3:36pm
    Barak you might like to check the situation in Sweden right about now.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    3:42pm
    Which news service?

    And don't answer "Any". Many tell me things are fine.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    3:52pm
    I know exactly who they are that are telling you they are fine !! I know Many More that are saying THEY ARE NOT FINE !! :-( :-(
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    4:10pm
    Why do you want to believe the doom-sayers?

    Do you remember the Yellow Peril and the Domino Theory?
    Franky
    1st Nov 2016
    1:15pm
    What will they think of next? Another knee jerk silly proposal that is not thought through.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    1:28pm
    Oh, it's thought through. The Libs' secret polling is showing a disaster. They need Pauline Hanson's voters.
    SGW
    1st Nov 2016
    2:00pm
    i'm with you Barak

    This Country was built on the backs of refugees after WW2, so why not kick all immigrants out, i'm sure the aboriginal community would like there country back
    marls
    1st Nov 2016
    2:37pm
    SWG
    Get your facts rights Aust after ww2 was built by immigrants not refugees and we immigrants were invited by the Aust gvt and the immigrants worked extememey hard long hrs and at no time tried to demand Aust change its rules and culture or demand Aust pay all our housing etc on welfare
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    2:47pm
    marls
    Get YOUR facts right.

    A lot of refugees came to Australia after WWII. They came from countries that no longer existed, or had had the crap bombed out them. Sound familiar?

    A lot of immigrants came too. Ten pound Poms and the like.
    ex PS
    1st Nov 2016
    3:18pm
    The people coming from Europe were not called refugees, but in a majority of cases they were coming here because there was nothing for them in their homeland. If you think that Australian culture was not changed by the immigrants that settled here I suggest you open your eyes and look around you.
    floss
    1st Nov 2016
    1:51pm
    What about the economic refugees that come in the front door, thousands more.Check out who are the so called drug lords in our city scum that they are.
    MICK
    1st Nov 2016
    2:01pm
    The question of WHY this legislation is coming up seems pretty clear to me. Pauline Hanson and her other 3 senators want it. In exchange the government gets the support of the Hanson Party in passing/destroying the union movement with the ABBC legislation.
    Called horse trading. No other explanation for this piece of legislation.
    wally
    1st Nov 2016
    2:37pm
    .
    CindyLou
    1st Nov 2016
    2:03pm
    In answer to the question posed in this discussion, I support the lifelong ban.

    Furthermore, my concern is with the thousands of Australians who are homeless - I wish there was a plan / solution to ease this problem.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    3:21pm
    'Lifelong ban' - absolute insanity!!!

    So what - Someone comes to Australia on a boat seeking asylum as a 20 year old, gets shipped off to Canada or the US or wherever, lives there as a law abiding citizen for 40 years and after all that time isn't even allowed to have a 3 week holiday as a tourist in Australia because of this lifelong ban??? - Insanity!
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    3:23pm
    Even better - let's say they develop a skill later in life that makes them exactly what we want under a skilled immigration program. We would be hurting ourselves stopping them coming here then.
    CindyLou
    1st Nov 2016
    4:01pm
    In regard to future holidays to Australia, in my opinion - tough luck, they can find somewhere lse for a 'holiday destination'.

    In relatin to skills later in life, in my opinion the chances of that occurring are mighty slim, I'm also sure there would be other skilled people able to fulfill any hypothetical role.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    4:18pm
    I think you missed the point of the tourism thing. When tourists come here, Australians benefit. If we don't let them in, Australians suffer.
    Nan Norma
    1st Nov 2016
    5:11pm
    Does that go for all the children that had no say in coming here in a boat.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    5:47pm
    MORE THAN.. 62,000 "Tourists" visiting Australia are MISSING IN ACTION :-) :-) Look it up Barak :-)
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    5:50pm
    Yes, I know. So why the huge emphasis on the refugees on boats?
    4b2
    1st Nov 2016
    2:52pm
    I thought they had reached the bottom of the slippery pole on this issue. Must be a low ratings period for the Coalition? They raise the level of fear, uncertainty and doubt to take the focus away from their poor performance.
    This whole refugee argument is more about where they come from and religious hatred. Do we believe the same legislation would apply to refugees from the UK, USA or Canada?
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    2:56pm
    Of course not.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    3:01pm
    I Rocked Up in a boat on any one of their Shores in a boat, I would be thrown in JAIL,Beaten and Tortured :-( :-( So how are WE Inhumane ??? So tell the UN to mind their own Business and Govern their Own Little Private Country !! :-( Australia is FULL !! Rip Off Housing and No Jobs :-( :-(
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    3:02pm
    Let's start with "Australia is FULL !!"

    So, all immigration must stop. Right?
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    3:22pm
    IMMEDIATLY For the Islamic lot anyhow !! Look around the World, ITS A MESS !!
    Clean up our OWN Back yard First !! I live in a Country town and there are Many Homeless here, even :-( :-( They couldn't possibly pay the Rent asked now even for a Moderate Dwelling ! :-( All you've done is Elect a DO NOTHING Government That are just hanging around waiting out their time for all their Goodies at the End of their Rainbow !!:-( :-( :-(
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    3:24pm
    Wait a tad.

    Is it ALL immigration you want stopped? Or just Muslims?
    ex PS
    1st Nov 2016
    3:25pm
    You can't use the argument that someone else is worse than you therefore you are not so bad.
    Hitler killed millions but Pol Pot only killed hundreds of thousands, there for Pol Pot was a humanitarian?????
    You do know that UN stands for United Nations don't you? Last I checked Australia supported the UN, does that not infer that the way we mistreat people is actually their business?
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    3:41pm
    You don't get out Much nowadays do you !! I don't care about Hitler and Polio Pot They are long Dead !! Have a look around the World !! And I can assure you its not the Hairy Chrisna's belting people over the head with Tamborine's :-( :-(
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    3:43pm
    You must mean the Russians in Syria.

    Right?
    MICK
    1st Nov 2016
    6:01pm
    On the money particolor. What we have is some politically correct idiots in an office dictating to the world how they should behave and what is right and wrong? What really worries me is that many of our countrymen are taken in by their rather than telling those who seek to impose their will on us to bugger off.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    6:04pm
    What and who on earth are you talking about?
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    6:28pm
    They are beginning to wake up MICK ! Our Stinking Press doesn't show us the RIOTS in Germany and France Etc.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    6:40pm
    So how do you know they happened?
    ex PS
    2nd Nov 2016
    5:38pm
    particolor, don't assume, in the last few years we have been to Singapore, Italy, France, Germany, Switzerland, Britain, United Emirates, Thailand and probably a few more countries that I haven't got time to mention. I have not seen any evidence of the break down of society because of increased immigration, the only inconvenience suffered was in Rome where we had to wait two hours to go through customs because of visa checks.
    All this hysteria over the effect of immigration on the whole world seems to be a beat up in order to sell papers to hysterics who don't know about the world because they are busy hiding under their beds.
    particolor
    2nd Nov 2016
    8:20pm
    Time you went for another Trip ! Its Improved !
    floss
    1st Nov 2016
    4:13pm
    Put a sock in it Barak you just keep repeating your self. Most Australians have had a gut full.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    4:20pm
    I think I have been very polite here today. Those wanting to build barriers between peoples have been the ones with the nasty comments.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    4:22pm
    "Most Australians have had a gut full".

    - Just know you don't speak for me.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    4:23pm
    ABSABLOODYLOOTLY !! :-( :-(
    ex PS
    2nd Nov 2016
    5:43pm
    looney, have your opinion by all means, but don't try to represent that you speak for anyone but yourself.
    I choose to believe that most Australians do not agree with putting people in detention without charge and without the right to legal representation, I may be wrong, but I would like to think that most Australians are compassionate and not easily fooled by government propaganda.
    Notice, I have stated what I believe to be the case, I have not made a statement on behalf of people who I don't even know.
    Paws
    1st Nov 2016
    4:24pm
    Fair enough. They leave their own country because of the conditions and when they get here they still complain. If it is that bad here, then go back and put the taxpayers money to better use here.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    4:26pm
    Who ARE you talking about?

    The people on Manus Island or Nauru? I suspect you would complain about being locked up there too.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    4:32pm
    What a lovely way of twisting things you have !! Ever considered going into politics ? He was talking about when they are Here, HERE in Australia.. The House is Not good Enough :-( The Welfare is not Enough, We want a New Mosque :-) Etc. Etc. Etc.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    4:42pm
    I assume you're talking about Muslims.

    What is this " The House is Not good Enough :-( The Welfare is not Enough"? I don't know what you're talking about. Well documented cases, please.

    As for wanting a new mosque, that's no different from people from other faiths wanting new places of worship. Silly in all cases.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    5:32pm
    did you know that "Barak" means .."White Grub that lives in Tree" In Aboriginal language . :-) :-) Look it up !! :-)
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    5:57pm
    Which Aboriginal language? There's around 400 of them.

    I assume you don't realise that it's actually the name of a great Aboriginal man.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    6:09pm
    That too !! :-) I think it was Barah.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    6:40pm
    What ARE you talking about?

    I know precisely what I am talking about in the area of Aboriginal culture. And I don't go beyond what I do know. It's obvious you don't know.

    Stick to Islam. You're an expert on that.
    ex PS
    2nd Nov 2016
    5:46pm
    Paws, you obviously haven't ever had lunch in an average Australian company lunch room. If you had you would realise that whinging is a great Australian tradition, If you deported people for whinging there would be plenty of room for refugees.

    1st Nov 2016
    5:27pm
    I agree with the proposed legislation. If any of the illegal* refugees finish up in Australia, the people smugglers will use that as a selling point to start up their evil trade once more.
    *anyone who arrives here without the correct visa and documentation has arrived illegally.

    It has been said that there are Australians who will go to Nauru and Manus Island, marry a refugee and insist on having their spouse be allowed in Australia. I don't support this attempt to circumvent our laws. Australia already takes a very high number of refugees and each illegal immigrant, if allowed to stay in Australia, is taking the place of a refugee approved to settle here. How is that fair? I read the comments about those immigrants who came here and have been successful and all power to them. There is a huge difference, all of those people who fled tyranny came here legally so to make a comparison is totally incorrect. The people on Nauru and Manus Island took their chances and lost although they haven't lost as much as the 1200 souls who perished at sea trying to reach Australia illegally. They passed through safe havens to reach where they are now and could have sought refuge in those countries.

    The government is trying to keep our country safe and this is another rung in the ladder. If an illegal refugee has no papers and the country they have chosen to leave has very few records, how can we be sure that the person is who they claim to be. All of those refugees accepted have had their paperwork confirmed and their identification checked before approval has been granted.

    Shorten has turned all of this into a political argument. He has not seen any of the proposed legislation yet he is prepared to front the media and tell them all of the things that are wrong with it. He has also chosen to denigrate about ½million voters by suggesting that any Hanson supporters are unable to make sensible decisions. Shorten won't answer the questions about where he and his party stand on this proposed legislation claiming that they haven't seen it. How hypocritical!
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    5:52pm
    The government is NOT trying to keep our country safe. It is trying to win your vote.
    Charlie
    1st Nov 2016
    5:38pm
    The immigration officials who have all the information about the people (not the newspapers) should have the say about who we admit, who we don't, and who we ban permanently. If refugees have children they should take responsibility for them, not try to cash in on them. Some are protecting children from being in war zones, some are not.

    I've had enough of this upside down world where, they have the right to come here and we have to say why not. The behavior of refugees in Europe and lack of gratitude has put everyone off helping them.

    Even in Australia there are winging Muslims who want us to change our way of life to conform with their religion. The freedom of religion we practice in Australia is not what they have in mind. I agree if they don't like it, they can go back where they came from.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    5:53pm
    There are very few Muslims who want us to change our way of life to conform with their religion.

    My Muslim friends certainly don't. Do yours?
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    9:38pm
    Barak, you don't need a whole lot of Muslims to want a change, just a very vocal minority. The number of people who want to change the immigration laws are very few in number and here we are arguing with each other on that very subject. I fear Australia is being ruled by a vocal minority.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    9:55pm
    Our laws NEVER change because of a vocal minority.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    11:14pm
    Really? How many people were involved with the cessation of the live cattle trade? How many people were involved in the greyhound cancellation? How many people were involved when Roxon increased the alcopop excise? All of these were changes to the way we live yet very few people brought about the need for a government to make changes.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2016
    11:01am
    Our laws NEVER change because of a vocal minority.
    Missskinnylegs
    1st Nov 2016
    5:55pm
    Genuine refugees are always welcome, all others OUT and stay out. Make sure they are not coming by plane either. These economic refugees are the worst, they come here, take welfare, our housing and do sweet F. A, plan never to work or assimilate - this does not make me a racist - I welcome with open arms true refugees, not these bludgers.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    5:58pm
    How many are in that latter category?
    Katie
    1st Nov 2016
    6:06pm
    I am saddened by the vitriolic comments from most of the people who are supposed to be older and wiser! We are supposed to love each other and surely that includes the poor, desperate refugees who are fleeing from their war torn countries to find a better life for themselves and their children. Put yourselves in their shoes. How would you cope in a similar situation? I agree with Barak. He seems to be a voice crying out in the wilderness, however. Come on people, show some compassion!
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    6:33pm
    Thanks Katie. I'm not completely alone, and I don't feel oppressed.

    Many times in my life I have been in a minority, and right.
    Rod63
    1st Nov 2016
    8:16pm
    Well said, Katie. The attitudes expressed her by many, are very sad.
    Fair go
    2nd Nov 2016
    10:50am
    Thanks Katie.
    We need to put ourselves in their shoes. If we lived in a country where our families were persecuted and children had no future.
    Would we not try to get somewhere where there is a better life.

    I had a number of conversations with our previous Federal MP (LNP) who used to say we have to stop the boats but then he would add - if I was in their shoes I would get on a boat...???
    Mar
    1st Nov 2016
    6:15pm
    What a sad country we are becoming. Not the Australia I learned to love. Hard to believe some of the comments. We will end up being driven by fear and hate and governed by racist politics.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    6:18pm
    Are Now !! They cant even Govern now without Bowing to Every Whim of the "Immigrunts" :-(
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    6:32pm
    Why the silly spelling of "Immigrunts"?
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    6:42pm
    No No its Immigrants !!
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    6:43pm
    What?

    That response makes no sense. I copied and pasted "Immigrunts" directly from YOUR post.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    7:33pm
    Wait till next time your finger Slips !!
    Mar
    1st Nov 2016
    6:17pm
    Good on You Barack and Katie, improved my spirit.
    floss
    1st Nov 2016
    6:21pm
    Ban all immigration we have enough lost cab drivers.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    6:36pm
    Sydney to Erskineville Via Penrith you mean :-) :-) :-)
    wendan31
    1st Nov 2016
    6:37pm
    Totally, totally agree!!!!!!!! About time the government got some guts to look out for Australia and Australian people.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    6:41pm
    Does that include my Muslim friends who were born here?
    Kali-G
    1st Nov 2016
    6:47pm
    CORRECT!
    wendan31
    1st Nov 2016
    6:50pm
    I am talking about the illegal boat people, if people born here want to live the Australian way, let them live, but we should not have to change our way of living, our laws and rules to suit them, this is Australia, it used to be 'the lucky country' , we had a laid back style of living, now we cannot walk the streets, we have to lock ourselves in our own homes, it is too scary to travel overseas or to any large people gathering - this is not the Australian way of living.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    7:07pm
    Please provide examples of how we have had to change our way of living, our laws and rules to suit them?
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    7:18pm
    Strewth Barak !! What part on Outer Mongolia are you from !! :-(
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    8:01pm
    So you have no examples.

    Abusing me is not an example.
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    9:23pm
    Let off for Serious Crimes is not changing our Laws Ay ? OK !! You win :-(
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    9:27pm
    What do you mean by "Let off for Serious Crimes"?
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    9:45pm
    ARE YOU BLOODY BLIND ??? :-(
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    9:57pm
    Manners, please.

    Again, you seem to have no response but abuse.
    Kali-G
    1st Nov 2016
    6:45pm
    Yet our un-elected PM at the same time promised to Ovomit to bring in EVERY YEAR 19000 additional middle eastern moslem types at an estimated cost of $ 1.2BILLION DOLLARS!
    No wonder the Budget is stuffed. At the same time cutting pensions, cutting PBS medication and stuffing the country!!!!!!
    AUSTRALIA WILL BE LIKE THE MIDDLE EAST IN A FEW YEARS TIME....LIKE LAKEMBA....
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    7:06pm
    I'd love to know what you're talking about in that first sentence. Got any more details?

    Ovomit?

    EVERY YEAR 19000 additional middle eastern moslem types?

    1.2BILLION DOLLARS?
    particolor
    1st Nov 2016
    7:25pm
    Lets lift the Borrowing Ceiling again to pay for it !! :-)
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    8:15pm
    Pay for what?

    Immigrants have always provided Australia with net gains.
    Florgan
    1st Nov 2016
    6:50pm
    Yes yes yes
    Get it done.
    Mar
    1st Nov 2016
    8:36pm
    This site is now not worth commenting on. Quite disgusting. Not presenting intelligent argument but angry, dangerous stupidity.
    Anonymous
    1st Nov 2016
    8:46pm
    Yes. It has gone too far. I am withdrawing.
    Rod63
    1st Nov 2016
    8:48pm
    Me, too.
    Twiddle
    2nd Nov 2016
    3:29am
    Boat people, refugees whatever the main objective is to secure our borders. With terrorism rife all over the world it is important that people entering in the future are people who will live by our laws, and be an asset to Australia, and not a financial burden.
    CindyLou
    2nd Nov 2016
    8:43am
    I agree, I'm loathed to join this discussion as it sidetracks by some.

    Having secure borders and being extra careful re people entering our country I believe is wise. In US visitors are fingerprinted, we accept that as visitors in that country, that's being respectful.

    I know for a fact that refugees talk frequently on phone to family and friends back either back home or where ever (was observed by myself in my workplace).

    So, my position is that this lifetime ban will be conveyed to others worldwide - which I believe is good, Australian is too soft in my opinion on law breakers, welfare cheaters and others.

    I want our nation to be respected and to toughen up.
    KeyC
    2nd Nov 2016
    5:57am
    Really sad people around who have been indoctrinated to believe that people who come to Australia some by choice and others needing asylum and refuge only do so to 'bludge' and rob others of jobs.Besides, have we forgotten how many successful migrants and that includes refugees who have contributed to this great country we have?
    How much this nation has benefitted from the different races, cultures and the diverse lifestyles we should all be proud of. However, sadly it is evident that the government due to its precarious position is playing to the tune of its own 'extremists'; called racism, in its midst. It has lost its moral and compassion compass. No person; I repeat no person rich or poor will pay for a rickety boat trip to enter Australia. The majority of these individuals and families have done so to flee often for fear of their lives. But worst of all, let's look at what Australia is now perpertrating on these people in the off -shore detention centres? Nothing short of torture and trauma, abuse of the worst kind. Far worse still, is that they have been 'housed' in poor countries where they're exposed to further mistreatment. One could go on but the evidence is there to be read for yourselves - Amnesty International and our own Human Rights commission and others can attest to that.
    Of course, that is not what the government wants you to know. It wants the general public; you as the voter to think that we are under threat.
    Let me leave that for a moment and tell you there are thousands of visiting foreigners who overstay there wonderful holidays every year but are never brought to book or placed in detention centres to await processing and then sent to their home country. I have no other reason to think that this is condoned because they are usually white people. And the government has also enabled them by introducing the 457 Visa to make it look legit.
    So could it just mean that we are really denying that Australia still maintains its White Australia policy? This could be hurtful but we should all have a good look and examine ourselves to come up with the reason why we want to shut the door on people who are genuinely seeking refuge. Is it colour, is it religion, is it difference ? If all these 'other' people are so threatening why still scoff down their cuisine for instance? Enough from me for the moment.
    CindyLou
    2nd Nov 2016
    9:10am
    Really inappropriate to state that people who have differing opinions (to yourself) have been "indoctrinated".

    Also, FYI, obviously I don't have access to statistics re visiting foreigners who overstay, but I personally know of several Polish people who were found and sent back to Poland - they were white so your sweeping statement appears to be inaccurate.
    Banjo
    2nd Nov 2016
    9:50am
    KeyC - may I say I agree and congratulate you on your post. I am appalled at how inhospitable and selfish some of my fellow Australians have shown themselves to be.

    Like you, I feel there is a certain percentage of Australians who still live in a time warp and would like to see the "White Australia" policy return. As far as I can see, most people hate refugees because they fear what the refugees may be taking away from them. I think many are more worried about their pensions and I would point out, there are many of our own people who abuse the system much much more than is visible to most of us.

    The percentage of refugees who seek further education when they get here and who are determined to do well is very high. Most are hard working people who through circumstances have had to flee their homeland. If we were in their position, I am sure many would do exactly what these refugees do - try to survive.
    phantom
    2nd Nov 2016
    9:03am
    Did anyone think Shorten would agree with this. The word "opposition" to him is oppose everything, whether it's good for the country or not.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2016
    10:58am
    You are so very, very wrong.

    In the blindness caused by your permanent hatred of Labor, you have missed a major point here.

    For many years now Labor has agreed with virtually everything the Libs have done on the boat people front. This was because of wedge politics. Labor's position in relation to the Libs was so marginal, it had to seem to be just as tough as the Libs on this front.

    What's significant now is that the mood is changing. Labor is ahead of the Libs in federal polling. It can finally afford to be different.

    It's good to see that difference.
    ex PS
    2nd Nov 2016
    5:11pm
    phantom, what can you say, he learnt off the best, namely Tony Abbot who was known as Mr. No.
    Mar
    2nd Nov 2016
    10:17am
    Glad to hear from KeyC and Banjo. It is fear that promotes anger and racism and fear spreads rapidly. Education, knowledge, more understanding helps reduce fear. I know I would get on a boat or do anything to protect my family or to save their lives or give them a better future.
    ex PS
    2nd Nov 2016
    5:09pm
    Well said, the people who spread hatred about boat people should ask themselves what they would do in similar circumstances. I'm pretty sure they would not just wait around waiting to get onto an entry list that does not exist to lead them and their families to safety.
    anicca
    2nd Nov 2016
    11:41am
    A couple of wise enlightened beings, namely the Dalai Lama and Eckhart Tolle stated similar comments regarding the refugees flooding into Europe. In summary they said that Angela Merkel was compassionate but not wise in inviting huge numbers (approx. 1 million) refugees into Germany. All the religions state that compassion and wisdom must be in equal proportions otherwise the effects are disastrous. (e.g. not all cultures are at the same level of development). Therefore assimilation of refugees can only be done in small doses. Otherwise refugees and the general populace will suffer.

    For the record I believe in the Sustainable Population movement. Quote Sir David Attenborough "Either we limit our population growth or the natural world will do it for us, and the natural world is doing it for us right now.'

    Therefore as one sees the quality of life declining in Melbourne and Sydney -for the majority (more traffic jams/pollution/beggars/homeless/jobless + our debt is frightening - one asks the question how can Australia possibly take in many more refugees? Do we really want to go into decline like the US?
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2016
    11:48am
    I agree re Australia's overall population.

    However, there are millions of refugees in the world right now. The world, which we are part of, needs to find a solution.

    The other problem with your post is that you mentioned no other solution to the overcrowding of our cities than keeping refugees out. I'd like to see ALL immigration stopped, not just people who look and sound different. And kill any policies, like baby bonuses and paid maternity leave, that encourage more babies n=being born here.
    VicCherikoff
    2nd Nov 2016
    11:49am
    Great policy. Do it. We need to achieve negative population growth.

    2nd Nov 2016
    5:52pm
    The real question is:- when does a refugee cease to be a refugee and become an illegal immigrant?

    Well - Firstly - as refugee CLAIMANTS, they have the right to a fair hearing and to fair treatment;

    Secondly - once certified as Refugees (not Claimants) they have the right to be settled in the country from which they claimed refuge;

    Thirdly - There is nothing illegal on their part in seeking to attain a 'port of entry' to the country from which they wish to claim refugee status.

    All that put together means the entire handling of Refugees is a total disgrace and will tar this country for decades.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2016
    6:02pm
    Thank you, Nobody - for your pertinent question:-

    Indeed - they cannot be classified as 'illegal immigrants' since they have not touched soil in Australia, so that entire nonsense self-serving argument goes out the window .... once they are proven to be Refugees, they have the right to ask for settlement here, and to have a fair chance of having that happen.
    ex PS
    4th Nov 2016
    12:03pm
    Quite simple TREBOR, all this government thinks it needs to make an activity or entity illegal is to put ill in front of the name. They have been proved right by the massive inaction of the Australian public.
    We even ignore the fact that most refugees actually want to go home once it is safe to do so.


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