7th Nov 2018
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Most retirees financially comfortable: report
Author: Janelle Ward
well-off retiree

Most retirees are more than comfortable and many can actually save after they stop working ,   leaving a legacy almost as large as their retirement nest eggs, according to new analysis.

The report from independent think-tank the Grattan Institute, Money in Retirement, More Than Enough, claims that retirees are less likely to suffer financial stress than some working-age Australians

The report’s authors, headed by John Daley and Brendan Coates, also argue that many low-income Australians will actually get a pay rise when they retire, through a combination of the Age Pension and their superannuation savings.

Based on its modelling, the institute believes the Superannuation Guarantee should remain at 9.5 per cent instead of being increased to 12 per cent by 2025-26, as planned.

The report says most workers today can expect a retirement income of at least 91 per cent of their pre-retirement income – well above the 70 per cent benchmark endorsed by the OECD.

Australians tend to spend less after they retire, it says, and less again as they enter their 70s and 80s.

“The financial services industry ‘fear factory’ encourages Australians to worry unnecessarily about whether they’ll have enough money in retirement,” said Grattan Institute chief executive John Daley.

However, the report does concede that the retirement income system is not working for some low-income Australians who rent, particularly in Sydney and Melbourne, and that this problem will get worse “because on current trends home ownership for over-65s will decline from 76 per today to 57 per cent by 2056”.

To counter this, it recommends that the maximum rate of Commonwealth Rent Assistance be increased by 40 per cent, delivering an extra $1410 a year for retired singles and $1330 for couples.

The report also recommends that the value of the family home be included in means tests for the Age Pension and aged care, suggesting the threshold could be $500,000.

YourLifeChoices’ 2018 Retirement Matters Survey, completed by almost 6000 respondents, found that only 23.6 per cent of retirees believe their income will last, with 44.6 per cent saying “no” and 31.8 per cent being “unsure”.

Meanwhile, Industry Super Australia has challenged the Grattan Institute’s analysis, describing it as “deeply flawed”.

Industry Super’s retirement income adviser, Phil Gallagher, said the institute’s modelling assumptions were “unrealistic and unrepresentative of most Australian employees”.

The group said there are three key flaws:

  • assuming everyone can top up their super with extra voluntary contributions resulting in lifetime contributions that could be up to 50 per cent greater than the basic super guarantee
  • assuming a continuous uninterrupted 37-year working life , ignoring the reality of many workers, especially women
  • assuming living standards in retirement shouldn’t keep pace with the rest of the community.

Mr Gallagher said: “Across all age groups, just 12.2 per cent of employees with super make additional concessional contributions but Grattan appear to have assumed that everyone does.

“There are many other problems, including assuming an unbroken career which is not at all representative for women, and setting retirement benchmarks that are not pegged to community living standards.”

Are you saving in retirement? Will you leave a substantial legacy? Are you receiving 91 per cent of your pre-retirement income?

How does your Super affect your overall retirement income? The RetirePlanner™ tool has all the information you need.

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    COMMENTS

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    Mrs Hedgehog
    7th Nov 2018
    11:21am
    I now live on about $17,000 a year, not even close to my annual preretirement income. Because I saved what I could I am considered rich and not eligable for the pension. Expenditure does not decrease as you get older as you find you have to pay people to do jobs, such as mowing the lawn that you could easily do when you were younger, and you tend to need more heating/cooling to be comfortable. These uni people live in a bubble, not in the real world, many have not had a real job outside the university environment.
    TREBOR
    7th Nov 2018
    11:58am
    Yes - not quite the bed of roses that some say it is... $17k is not a lot to live on in retirement. Uni work is overpaid and has too much perks attached.... the super is magnificent and bordering on that of politicians ....that kind have zero idea of the real world.

    $17000 is less than pension.... under The Trebor Government you would receive a top-up to pension rate, plus all pension perks - which, FTR - will be extended somewhat under the Trebor Benevolent Dictatorship....
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    1:45pm
    You are spending less then the pension which means you are saving and growing your nest egg
    Sundays
    7th Nov 2018
    4:02pm
    Mrs H, I would get some financial advice. You may be better off if you reduce some of your assets to receive a part pension, or just spend a little if your quality of life is suffering
    TREBOR
    7th Nov 2018
    11:56am
    Not entirely - many did not have the opportunity to develop significant superannuation given that the life span of compulsory super thus far for many was only half its full 'lifetime' of activity;

    the humble beginning of compulsory super (who can forget Keating's famous $300 thousand) meant that it was rapidly overtaken by inflation and real costs of living, and thus early contributions did not have the full value required today;

    many had to battle massive 'social' changes in that period, including:-
    an overstocked employee 'bank' and consequent unemployment at a high level,
    industrial relations changes that have brought to a halt real wages growth,
    and demolition of 'traditional' source of retirement wealth via divorces and devastation of personal wealth in home and assets,
    then the influx of the despicable 'global economy' ad global market' which immediately reduced comparative incomes for many while raising prices on finished goods.

    Many coming through that early period of CS (compulsory super) endured illness and sometimes injury, and in many cases took on the burden (loyally despite divorce and such) of carer for ailing spouses and others.

    Certainly some had a fine advantage of super plus good earnings and stability at home etc.... the 50% divorce rate alone ('dead' marriage runs at 90% according to figures) shows that at least 50% suffered asset destruction/asset stripping along the way - often at the least fortunate time for many, being around their 40's or higher - the time when they should have been consolidating for retirement.

    For most of these 'social' disasters, government in its finite wisdom is hugely responsible (including for the never-ending war on men) - and bears a huge burden of responsibility**.

    ** (as I've been relaying to Brother Shorten lately, starting with the premise that reversing the penalty rates decision was a clear example of going back to undo harm- and this nation now needs to go back about forty years, make full restitution to those harmed by stupid, selfish and half-baked 'social' and 'economic' 'science', and start again on a level playing field - can't see his lot coming at that).
    TREBOR
    7th Nov 2018
    12:01pm
    Oh - and that other social disaster, labeled very loosely' 'privatisation' = selling off public assets to personal mates and self and family for personal benefit = theft as a servant, which under Scottish Law requires a double normal sentence...

    Hard to work out how to guillotine someone twice, though...
    Old Man
    7th Nov 2018
    12:43pm
    I find Labor's plan to reverse the penalty rate decision most hypocritical, Bob. Shorten wants us to forget that it was him who asked FWA to review penalty rates and it was him who said on a number of occasions that he would abide by the decision of FWA. Labor and the ACTU are framing the decision on penalty rates as if FWA completely abolished all penalty rates when nothing could be further from the truth. Sunday rates were reduced by a small percentage to be the same as Saturday rates. Most other rates were untouched. Continually telling a lie does not make it the truth.
    TREBOR
    7th Nov 2018
    12:54pm
    Indeed - I tweeted him about it....

    Like many such things, it was fine until someone decided to change things to suit some momentary thought bubble...
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    1:02pm
    Labor has no intention of reversing the penalty rates at all. That's just another Labor lie.

    If Labor did everything it says it is going to do they would need to triple taxes plus some.
    TREBOR
    7th Nov 2018
    1:21pm
    Oh......

    (Trebor replied and he sounded quite airy)...
    It'll come with the corporate tax cuts tooth fairy....
    Plenty much more where that lot came from,
    Plenty to ensure the economy won't bomb..

    I hear tell down Cambra way they've got money in a sack for every one of their pet schemes.... I'm just expanding that logic to everything... spread it around a bit.... after all....... it's not as if businesses are doing a good job with it.... and pensioners etc will spend it back into the economy and not Offshore it......
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    12:43pm
    I agree with the Grattan Institute. There are no what I would call poor retirees. Most have more than enough and many grow fat once they retire on too much of a good thing.
    TREBOR
    7th Nov 2018
    12:54pm
    *ignored*
    Sundays
    7th Nov 2018
    12:54pm
    Of course there are poor retirees OG. The Grattan Institute acknowledges that pensioners who rent are doing it tough as are those who rely solely on the OAP and have nothing for a rainy day.
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    1:41pm
    Correct OG
    If the full pension is enough to save on then part pensioners and sfr’s should save heaps
    Triss
    7th Nov 2018
    2:02pm
    "Most" and "many" mean there are definately people struggling. You're generalising again, OG, let's have specifics.
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    3:11pm
    I haven't seen anyone really struggling on the OAP others than those who have no money management skills.
    Triss
    7th Nov 2018
    3:24pm
    How many OAP's do you know well, OG, and how have you decided that people will find you so compassonate that they will tell you all their woes? And how do you know the people you "see" are OAPs, they don't have it tattooed across their foreheads. It is your opinion that people have no money management skills not fact. Those same people have gone through their lives working, bringing up children and doing a host of other things in life so they do have plenty of management skills.
    Please stop generalising and post with facts
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    3:37pm
    Triss I'm the sort of person people tell me all their troubles and that's why I no longer go on cruises. Too many whinging pensioners. I sit down in a shopping centre and next thing I have a couple of whinging pensioners complete with take away lattes. I live in a street full of them and the cheapest house in my street is worth well over a million dollars. There is a BentlI go for a walk and spend 90% of the time listening to them. Need I go on.
    Triss
    7th Nov 2018
    3:54pm
    To use your words back to you, OG. Rubbish!
    Triss
    7th Nov 2018
    4:05pm
    Really, OG, if you live, as you say, rent, utility, heating, etc free in a home worth over a million you don't have the right to denigrate OAPs.
    inextratime
    7th Nov 2018
    5:24pm
    Yet another grenade from OG who lives in a caravan in the back of beyond where the Antelopes roam tralalalalala,,,,,
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Nov 2018
    5:35pm
    … and gets absolutely EVERYTHING for nothing, including food which he steals from the poor.
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    6:33pm
    ROFL
    Greg
    7th Nov 2018
    6:38pm
    There's over 3.5 million people aged 65+, have you spoken to all of them OG. As usual full of BS, live in your own little world - "I sit down in a shopping centre..." "I live in a street full of them and the cheapest house in my street is worth well over a million dollars."

    Your own little world with well off retirees, there's 3.5 m others out there buddy, think of others for a change.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Nov 2018
    9:20pm
    He isn't capable of THINKING, Greg. He hasn't got a brain. Greed killed all the brain cells long ago.
    Mandy
    7th Nov 2018
    11:43pm
    I have read about OG boasting that he can come out on considerably less than the age pension. Please OG share your secret with us. Perhaps you can submit a full article giving all the details of your budget. We do not all have your financial genius or ability. I for one am sure I could learn a lot from you.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    2:44am
    Mandy, he'd need to teach you how to bludge on someone else for free accommodation and how to steal food hampers meant for those suffering hardship. Personally, I wouldn't want to learn. I have too much self-respect and respect for others to live that way.
    Sundays
    7th Nov 2018
    12:45pm
    Not living on anything close to 91% of pre retirement income. However, we’re doing ok primarily because we know how to budget. I also believe you need to keep money aside for health care as you age. Also repairs and maintenance. Do the people who work for Grattan know any old people? The days of nan and pop just sitting in front of the TV are long gone. Hobbies, travel and a social life can cost money. The only thing I agree with is increasing rent assistance.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Nov 2018
    5:17pm
    People at Grattan are all privileged rich folk with multiple post-grad uni degrees and working in professional occupations. They have no idea what life in the real world is like. Should be shut down as irrelevant and dangerous.
    Tarabelle
    9th Nov 2018
    11:41am
    OnlyGenuineRainey Agree whole heartedly. I trust you noted that word "modelling".
    floss
    7th Nov 2018
    1:14pm
    Was that report done before or after the Hockey blunder.O.G please lets have a fib free day.
    TREBOR
    7th Nov 2018
    1:24pm
    Which specific Hockey blunder? Someone is compiling a book - about as long as War and Peace, I hear...
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    1:35pm
    Hockey did a great job so I don't know what you are on about at all.
    TREBOR
    7th Nov 2018
    6:15pm
    You could have left that comment at :- "I don't know what you are on about at all."

    Hockey took it on the lam once he realised what a total stuff-up he and Abbott had created with their mindless neo-conservatism and romancing the Thatcher stone. Cunning as an outhouse rat - he saw the dice falling on his head and that of his 'government' and opted for yet another easy earner out of our pockets for doing stuff-all.

    They're considering making a move about him and his kind - The Right Stuff-Up!

    Any government with morals would sack him instantly and withdraw his privileges until age 67 at least.
    1984
    7th Nov 2018
    9:08pm
    More tripe & offal from comrade OG lol. Hockey was the worst treasurer in Australian history
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    6:29am
    Absolutely, Karl. Which is why the LNP got rid of him so quickly to a cushy job in the US, and made sure he had no incentive to return. I suspect he was bribed to commit an act that they knew was vile and disgusting and they wanted to be sure the person blamed would be out of the party quickly.
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    1:44pm
    Grattan has it right
    The pension is adequate to live on and save a little
    I live on only 20% of my pre retirement income but it’s growing as I save the unspent amount and reinvest it
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Nov 2018
    5:20pm
    You obviously had an obscenely high pre-retirement income. Maybe join the real world for a while and see how life is for those who didn't have it so easy.
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    5:26pm
    Thats such a silly comment,

    I have made an 80% adjusted against my pre retirement lifestyle

    Most people only need to make around 25 - 40%

    It was tough giving up all those luxuries but with discipline and sacrifice , I managed it

    So adjusting 20 or 40 % on a pre retirement salary of say $100k shouldnt be hard at all
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Nov 2018
    5:34pm
    Who earned $100,000 pre-retirement? No wonder you are so well off! Try living on 20% of a pre-retirement income of $45,000 a year and see how you fair.
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    5:37pm
    Haha - you really are silly

    So you live on $9,000 a year ???
    TREBOR
    7th Nov 2018
    6:17pm
    Don't play Personality, son - you hold very few cards there. Nobody is 'silly' - they are just stating their position.... in this kind of open discussion you address the issues or watch for the door banging your ass on the way out.
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    6:24pm
    Trebor - I have seen the quality or rather lack thereof of your posts, and would appreciate if you do not engage in any discourse with me on this forum.
    I am quick to judge who has anything of merit to say and therefore which posts I respond to.
    My response was to a silly presumptious comment from Only Genuine Rainey and my reply was to Rainey, not you
    You seem like a troublemaker and I really do not have time to waste on troublemakers
    TREBOR
    7th Nov 2018
    7:30pm
    Stop making such personal comments re others, son - discuss the issues... I couldn't give a tinker's damn what you think of my views - but do try to stick with arguing the point instead of playing the man.

    You demonstrate you own inability to discuss in doing so, as well as a number of other things.

    You ARE a troublemaker, and an infant as well..... and I respond to whom I like, and will correct you when you need it.
    TREBOR
    7th Nov 2018
    7:38pm
    Haven't seen you yet refute anything I've said - just play the man....

    Do you have any answers to anything?
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    7:42pm
    Which part of "You have nothing to say of any interest to me" don't you understand

    Beneath my dignity to respond to any of your comments. Consider this my last response to you, and be thankful I even bothered with this
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    2:40am
    Lothario, it's you who make silly, presumptuous statements - not me. I didn't say I live on $9000 a year. I countered your stupid assumption that most people only need 2-40%.

    In an earlier post you ASSUMED I was a bludger and on welfare. Now you ASSUME that because I say my pre-retirement income was $45,000, I must necessarily be living on 20% of that, when my point was that living on 20% of it would be IMPOSSIBLE. Your ASSUMPTIONS make you a prize ASS, I'm sorry to say. Maybe try actually THINKING before you write nonsense!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    2:41am
    That should have been 25-40%.
    pedro the swift
    7th Nov 2018
    1:55pm
    Take anything that comes out of the Grattan mob with a bucket of salt, to coin a phrase. What are there figures of "most" retirees? Why haven't they differentiated between men and women retirees? As a recent retiree, I may be lucky enough to have super to live on for a time,but retirees get no relief from constant rises in costs. I like their throwaway line "oh well, those who are renting may be a bit worse off" so to speak.
    I consider myself fairly frugal (28 year old car, most furniture 2nd hand, not many new items) and still find finances running close to the bone every month.
    Maybe I could do better, like a certain poster, and live on the smell of someone elses oily rag and live in the bush in a tent, then I could save a lot of cash and tell every one how well off I am.
    Rae
    8th Nov 2018
    8:34am
    High income earners who have never had to struggle payday to payday and juggle bills will never understand what it's like for the bottom 60% of low income earners and those dependent through circumstances often beyond their control.

    That they come out with this trash is annoying at best and worse they never offer any solutions or win/win ideas.

    We'd be better off without all these think tanks running on ideological nonsense in my opinion.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    9:46am
    Yes Rae, and without the nasties on this forum like OG who have a similar incapacity to even consider that others might be in different circumstances and face greater challenges and IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT.
    Rae
    8th Nov 2018
    2:25pm
    OG makes sense often though Rainey. Some people could do with budget and money management hints. We could all save money a bit better with some effort and that is OGs belief. He doesn't push my buttons as much as those feelings others have.
    I have heard OG comment that welfare should be for the truly needy. I don't agree but a lot of people do feel that way and have a right to an opinion.

    It annoys me that friend who upscaled houses several times and bought a new car every couple of years, private schooled kids etc now get a full pension while those who saved for income producing assets get nothing. I don't think it at all a fair deal.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    11:22am
    Oh I agree some people would do better with a budget and money management hints, Rae, but to blame everyone for all of their misfortunates and ignore the realities of life is SICK. OG has neither compassion nor comprehension of reality. It's easy to say ''bad backs are caused by lifting incorrectly so it's the sufferer's own fault'' but who showed the poorly educated guy who started heavy physical work at 14 how to lift correctly? Physios tell me they are teaching 70-yeawr-olds who did heavy physical work all their lives and hearing 'if only someone had told me when I was younger how to avoid injury'.

    It's easy to say ''everyone can get higher investment returns'' or ''everyone can access free this or that''. He says ''I can so why can't everyone else?" Clearly, they can't. If they could, they would. Nobody CHOOSES to struggle. There is a very valid reason why they can't do what he does. Maybe it's education. I don't know WHY they can't. I just know THEY CAN'T, and it's vile and disgusting to blame them.

    Disadvantage comes in many forms, and lack of knowledge is probably the most significant of all. How many of those who manage money poorly have ever been helped to learn how to do it better? The self-opinionated will point to sources of education, but they ignore the fact that (a) the education must be accessible to folk facing challenges, (and typically it isn't, because it's offered with a profit motive, not with the motive of solving a problem) and (b) it must be presented in a way that people who lack confidence and lack trust can absorb and use it. With no understanding of the thinking patterns that result from disadvantage or poor guidance, educators too often fail to learn how to communicate effectively. They focus on subject knowledge, and ignore the psychological barriers to learning.

    I work extensively with Forgotten Australians, and one of the key barriers for them is inherent distrust of the system. They KNOW from painful experience that if the system offers them something, there's a catch in it, and accepting will cause them hurt. That's what they were conditioned to believe. You try to help them, and they push you away because you are ''part of the evil system''. They ask ''what's in it for you''. They ask ''what's the hidden price''. Until you get past all of that and win their trust, it's hopeless. And who is at fault? Those more privileged who abused these folk or ignored their cries for help. Yet OG finds it far easier and more convenient to blame the victims. Naturally, because those who benefit from systems that abuse others will always turn a blind eye to the abuse and blame the victim. They have to justify their own selfishness and greed somehow.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    11:22am
    Oh I agree some people would do better with a budget and money management hints, Rae, but to blame everyone for all of their misfortunates and ignore the realities of life is SICK. OG has neither compassion nor comprehension of reality. It's easy to say ''bad backs are caused by lifting incorrectly so it's the sufferer's own fault'' but who showed the poorly educated guy who started heavy physical work at 14 how to lift correctly? Physios tell me they are teaching 70-yeawr-olds who did heavy physical work all their lives and hearing 'if only someone had told me when I was younger how to avoid injury'.

    It's easy to say ''everyone can get higher investment returns'' or ''everyone can access free this or that''. He says ''I can so why can't everyone else?" Clearly, they can't. If they could, they would. Nobody CHOOSES to struggle. There is a very valid reason why they can't do what he does. Maybe it's education. I don't know WHY they can't. I just know THEY CAN'T, and it's vile and disgusting to blame them.

    Disadvantage comes in many forms, and lack of knowledge is probably the most significant of all. How many of those who manage money poorly have ever been helped to learn how to do it better? The self-opinionated will point to sources of education, but they ignore the fact that (a) the education must be accessible to folk facing challenges, (and typically it isn't, because it's offered with a profit motive, not with the motive of solving a problem) and (b) it must be presented in a way that people who lack confidence and lack trust can absorb and use it. With no understanding of the thinking patterns that result from disadvantage or poor guidance, educators too often fail to learn how to communicate effectively. They focus on subject knowledge, and ignore the psychological barriers to learning.

    I work extensively with Forgotten Australians, and one of the key barriers for them is inherent distrust of the system. They KNOW from painful experience that if the system offers them something, there's a catch in it, and accepting will cause them hurt. That's what they were conditioned to believe. You try to help them, and they push you away because you are ''part of the evil system''. They ask ''what's in it for you''. They ask ''what's the hidden price''. Until you get past all of that and win their trust, it's hopeless. And who is at fault? Those more privileged who abused these folk or ignored their cries for help. Yet OG finds it far easier and more convenient to blame the victims. Naturally, because those who benefit from systems that abuse others will always turn a blind eye to the abuse and blame the victim. They have to justify their own selfishness and greed somehow.
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    2:00pm
    ABC Article.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-06/most-will-retire-enough-savings-grattan-institute/10469154
    inextratime
    7th Nov 2018
    5:36pm
    And that's proof. LOL !!!!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Nov 2018
    9:19pm
    Anything that the Grattan Institute says is BS from the mouths of over-privileged bigoted rich pricks who want to steal from everyone to feed their over-privileged rich buddies.
    MICK
    7th Nov 2018
    2:15pm
    The Grattan Institute, better known as the rich amn's union, cracks me up.
    First it claims retirees are having the nice life. Of course a few do but MOST DO NOT.
    Then it says it wants the superannuation guarantee left at 9%. It has only moved off 8% after 30 years and never reached the 15% it was sold to us all as. A con. Od course Grattan is batting for its wealthy business club members because they NEVER want to pay. Ever.

    This article only highlights the irrelevance of any group formed by the top end of society.
    Rae
    8th Nov 2018
    8:49am
    I think a lot of groups are waking up to the disaster that has been created by the Hockey changes. We really don't know the full extent of decisions being made since then. You'd imagine the purchase of annuities and defined benefit pensions would have fallen over.
    Nobody would willingly lock themselves into a situation that can't be changed and with huge sovereign risk.
    Add to that the loss of savings through fund fees and charges, market risk and employers not paying up and it's a dog's breakfast these days.
    A great idea totally stuffed up by constant regulatory capture, greed and misguided reports like this one from Grattan.
    George
    8th Nov 2018
    3:26pm
    Yes, it is deliberate misinformation based on fake figures and twisted ideas coming out from a so-called research institute which simply represents the rich people's interests.

    Such organisations should be de-funded, or at least they must publish their sources of funds each time they submit such spiel, mixed up with some minor useful ideas meant to confuse you and throw you off their main agenda. John Daley needs to be sacked and debarred from any such pompous positions for life based on his attacks on the less well-off similar to Joe Hockey.
    Mrs Hedgehog
    7th Nov 2018
    2:19pm
    Lothario, How do yo save when that is all you get, I do not receive the pension and that is all I get from Super and interest? Centrelink has a wonderful way with their calculations.
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    3:12pm
    There is something wrong with how you are managing your investment if youre over the asset threshold but only earn $17,000
    Not centerlink's fault
    Fliss
    7th Nov 2018
    4:29pm
    am inclined to agree with Lothario.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Nov 2018
    5:33pm
    Probably true, but it's a sick world when those who are not able to achieve high returns are left to struggle. The reason they can't is usually early disadvantage - poor education, crisis or trauma that left them very risk averse, etc. That means that our society is happy to persecute the underprivileged and let the privileged party obscenely. Sad! I thought we were better than that.
    Rae
    8th Nov 2018
    8:52am
    Would that be the calculation where you might have 48% non concessional component in your pension but they "deem" it as 10%. Lucky other financial institutions can't make up and distort facts like Centrelink can.
    Triss
    7th Nov 2018
    3:51pm
    The article says most 'workers' today, not pensioners today. There is a big difference. What age group are they basing their survey on?
    I don't have any trust in an economic model, it's a hypothesis and I believe that economists start off with a "reality" which suit the party who is paying them and then manipulate the study to arrive at that so called "reality".
    Total waste of money and time.
    Chuck
    7th Nov 2018
    4:16pm
    how can these stupid academics from the Grattan institute have any idea what it is like to live as a retiree. I bet they have no idea how difficult it is to get the age pension. I have to survive on $14,000 a year as I'm not eligible for government assistance because my wife works full time. So I'm classified as one of those well off self funded retirees. What a joke. All retirees should automatically receive the age pension provided they paid their fair share of taxes over their working life.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Nov 2018
    5:23pm
    Doing way better than a lot of SFRs and pensioners if you have $14000 a year on top of your wife's full time wage, Chuck. My partner and I have about $34,000 a year between us to live on. But according to a lot of wealthy morons, we are ''wealthy''. Oh, but of course, we should drain our savings and have nothing left 15 years from now when the house needs repairs and we need home help due to poor health.
    old frt
    7th Nov 2018
    5:39pm
    Mick , Trebor who is this top end of town you two continually refer to that the Libs give everything to . when I looked up who bought Telstra , CBA , Aust. Post etc. it was mum and dad investors and our super funds who were the main participants .And yes there were industry funds there too .
    TREBOR
    7th Nov 2018
    6:19pm
    Where did I say 'top end of town'?

    No - it was not 'mum and pop investors', in the main, who bought those shares - they are there for window dressing and hold little to no actual power or control .... most shares are held by a few.
    TREBOR
    7th Nov 2018
    6:20pm
    Mick and I are discrete entities - address us one at a time for reality's sake.
    Annie
    7th Nov 2018
    5:48pm
    As a very ordinary, comparatively educated "older" Australian I have tried to read and even possibly understand some of the replies and comments made in this section but sadly "lost the way" somewhere while fitting in all that needs doing in this so-called retirement section of my life. Having been fortunate enough to at least worked with all this wonderful new knowledge we are supposed to learn and absorb let alone deal with "old age" (believe me I am still trying to cope with this!!) and all I can hope is that our present "younger generation" finds a solution before they reach "retirement"!!!!!!
    ]
    Joy Anne
    7th Nov 2018
    6:04pm
    Bullshite. These young uni people have no idea. I am a pensioner and most goes to rent 610 fn. Very little super gone years ago. Live off the pension is hard very hard
    David
    7th Nov 2018
    6:58pm
    I would agree with the Grattan Institute's assessment that most retirees live a comfortable retirement based on the the retirees I know, which includes self-funded retirees and those on the government pension.
    The key is to live within your means. I know some friends who live comfortably on their old age pension, yet I know a self-funded retiree who earns more than double that but they waste their money so much so that they think they are struggling and they don't think they are living as comfortably as others.
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    7:04pm
    Aint that the truth

    Hear hear David
    TREBOR
    7th Nov 2018
    7:32pm
    Well said for those you know, David... and some will always do better than others ...I'll see if I can get a lobster licence with a boat soon.... might be a go....

    At least that one you've got there is NSW legal size and not those imported babies that should not be away from their mothers....
    David
    7th Nov 2018
    7:56pm
    Thanks Lothario, Trebor.
    Plenty to share with you Trebor
    etc1
    7th Nov 2018
    10:59pm
    How can anyone live on less than 20k? Utilities alone cost 14k. My annual household costs are around 35k. I don't go on holidays or dine out. I'm getting on to 70 but not yet retired. I dont invest in high risk stuff manly because your gains are usually someone's losses. All I need for myself is. A roof. A feed and a beer. But the Utilities and maintenance have to be paid. I hope I'm not greedy?.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    2:52am
    Not greedy at all, etc1. My rates and water costs alone exceed $4000, for a very modest, low--value property. Insurances are hideous and rising fast, despite huge excesses. Petrol is a horrendous expense, as we live a long way from shops and medical facilities. Then there's health costs and higher than average food costs because of special dietary needs. $20,000 would go nowhere. Our grocery bill would be half that (partly due to having to feed grandchildren for 13 weeks a year).

    The holier-than-though gloating privileged here never consider that other people's circumstances might be different - or if they do, they ASSUME that it's somehow a person's own fault if they are in difficult circumstances or struggling. OG even blames people for having health challenges or suffering as a result of past injuries. Never occurs to him, apparently, that the injury might have been sustained in an accident in which the victim was in no way at fault, or that a health issue might be inherited or a result of deprivation in childhood.
    David
    8th Nov 2018
    9:08am
    Utilities 14k?
    Mine are far less than that (in fact 57% less) even though we live in an expensive suburb, have a very large home and have 4 kids (2 have left home but the others come and go)!
    $2,554 council rates (we pay much more than the average of $1,677 as we live in an expensive suburb)
    $1,100 water pa
    $1,400 electricity pa
    $384 2 mobile phones pa (unlimited calls and text)
    $600 Internet pa
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    9:44am
    Wow David. You are VERY LUCKY to live in an area where council rates are so low. Mine are well below average for our shire but nearly $4000 a year plus $300 for water. And we do NOT live in an expensive suburb. Fortunately, electricity is cheap thanks to solar, but gas comes out at $250 a year. Phone and Internet currently cost $1200 a year thanks to getting a special at Aldi, but usually it's more like $1500 and I hardly ever make a call and have shockingly slow and unreliable Internet cover (as does everyone else in our shire).
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    3:02am
    What is this ''More than enough'' CRAP? Retirees are less likely to suffer financial stress than working Australians. DUH! Retirees have been through the ''financial stress'' of paying off a home, car and furniture, educating kids, trying to put a bit aside for emergencies and finding the emergencies just keep happening, going without themselves to make sure they kids have shoes to wear to school... We've been there and done that. And we have saved for old age as well - something most younger Australians seem hesitant to do, preferring the bought coffee and smashed avocado!

    We SHOULD be moderately comfortable in retirement. That's what we worked and paid tax and saved to achieve.

    Methinks the Grattan Institute reflects an attitude of GREED and ENVY, and is being very selfish and unreasonable. Personally, I'm disgusted with this constant harping about retirees being well off and wanting to take the proceeds of their life's work off them. Bugger off and let them enjoy what they EARNED. We need more incentives to save, not less.

    And raising rent assistance and including the family home in the assets test (if the absurdly low value of $500,000 is used - or anything less than $1 million in fact, indexed!), will only result in reduced home ownership rates in old age and more hardship nationwide.

    I am all for giving the needy more, but in a manner that doesn't reward irresponsibly living and punish diligence and hard work. Retirees who have worked hard to attain a level of comfort should be applauded and rewarded, not punished and criticized.
    Lothario
    8th Nov 2018
    3:07am
    Re your last paragraph, I agree but Shorten doesn’t think so
    Shorten thinks you should be deprived of franking credits so you might as well spend up and become a part pensioners to your credits remain in tact
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    6:26am
    Sadly, it's not just Shorten. The LNP attacked frugal retirees. Now Grattan Institute is implying we committed some crime by achieving comfort in retirement and we should hand all our savings to the government and be poor.
    TREBOR
    8th Nov 2018
    8:52am
    We'll get ShortenBowen and the ATO sorted out about genuine tax refunds.... they're playing cagey but there is always an end position already designed in the back rooms...

    You know that old one - come in like a roaring giant, threaten to shatter the table, and then say you only wanted half of that... everybody breathes a sigh of relief and only loses that half and thinks it's a good deal.

    I fully expect Labor to come back with their fallback position on dividend imputation returns to zero tax payers.... "oh - we didn't mean you lot - only those above a certain level who get a heap but pay no tax... gotta stop somewhere."

    They'll probably adopt Mick's upper limit after which you don't get a return - but always read the fine print, and keep a wary eye on the future when it comes to politics and policies.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    9:39am
    Trevor, first of all , Labor has given an absolute commitment NOT TO CHANGE THEIR POLICY.

    Secondly, if they exclude poor SFRs and others with very low incomes, there won't BE a policy change, because they are GIVING THE CREDITS TO THE WEALTHY. They have not even hinted at taking them from high income earners or those with big superannuation balances.

    They are targeting those with incomes so low that their marginal tax rate is less than 30%, and pushing their tax up to 30%. They are NOT TOUCHING ANYONE WHOSE MARGINAL RATE IS MORE THAN 30%.

    Regardless, they have shown themselves to be a bunch of liars with no capacity to develop innovative policies, but only to cancel reforms from 30 years ago - reforms that may well have contributed significantly to us doing so much better than other nations in the GFC. They have proved themselves UNFIT TO GOVERN. Doesn't matter what they do or don't change now. Their lies and stupidity has evidenced they are not capable of managing the economy. LNP is equally inept and corrupt, so it's now down to independents and minors.
    ace
    8th Nov 2018
    11:36am
    GREAT ! who did the Grattan Survey Their Fundee,s who don't want to pay the the 12% or have the pension increased !its not in their best interests as it could affect their Tax Cuts !!!
    I did not have Super for years ! my savings came late & murphy's law My super was embezzled 2004/5 lost a Chunk! I was on $70 & company went under I lost my job at 59 could only get partime work in a shop $ 22 pa Divorce did not help ! Then I retired in Dec 2007 Yes I lost another Chunk in GFC , ! another great bit of finanical advise > I get by on the pension & have a little super left But only because I used my super to buy a low cost unit ! Further out than I ever lived in the past & I have a son with Problems who I visit every week !
    Sorry but these clowns make me angry *** as I watch My health fund , Electricity Co.Phone Co Insurance Co, Petrol Co.s Just increase their costs to the point I am starting to think about what I need to cancel ! But not a lot of time to think about this I have work to do NDIS review for my Son , & Cenrtelink updates for us both (& I am not Tech savvy ) on line
    Got to find my son a new dentist ! got to mine for fillings & make app to see my GP to follow up on recent serious health issues don,t forget Get Ready for Xmas Cards & presents for Family !Support another son who is about to get divorced ! Oh & remember Don't get stressed It maybe the cause of my health problems
    Rae
    8th Nov 2018
    2:29pm
    It's been a nasty ride for decades and none of this considered by Grattan. High taxes, high interest rates, no grants, no childcare help and shafted after work. Grattan hasn't mentioned any of that have they?
    Tarabelle
    9th Nov 2018
    11:36am
    Another "modelling" joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    geordie
    10th Nov 2018
    9:12am
    The OAP would be enough to live on if people had done the nessessarily saving and buying when they were employed. All big stuff should be bought and paid for by retirement. A lot of people are bludgers and parasites. Spend spend spend, think nothing of tomorrow, she'll be right. Rather have the V8 and the Bali hols now and worry about that other stuff later. The welfare system is a joke. Probably 10% of people on it are the actual needy. For the rest it's a way of life. When a lifetime bludger/homeless person was asked if he had plans for when he gets older, he said, oh I'll have cheap government housing and a pension.......no
    worries.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th Nov 2018
    6:57am
    You are partially right, Geordie. But the problem is that the system drives that mentality and rewards it. Those who save to be as self-sufficient as possible suffer penalty. If you are struggling, you are often far better off NOT to strive.

    I don't think we should be too quick to brand people ''lifetime bludgers'', and certainly we should be cautious about branding the homeless. The problem isn't at that level, where people are genuinely mentally ill or seriously disadvantaged. People don't generally plan to be homeless or a ''lifetime bludger'', It's a level up from there, where people have had a perfectly liveable income and plenty of opportunity, but have just chosen to be spendthrifts. They are the ones burdening the system, and they are the ones being rewarded for their irresponsible attitudes. I'm sure a percentage of the long-term unemployed don't want to work, but it's a chicken and egg question. Social abuse destroys both ability and incentive.

    We now have vast numbers planning to retire on pensions who could be self-funded. They are spending up big or gifting or buying expensive houses, because retiring just above pension level leaves you poorer than on a pension - in income terms - and forced to drain your savings for the benefit of others. There just isn't any gain having savings unless you are way above the asset threshold. And Shorten will make it so much worse! I've been proudly self-funding, despite Hockey's cruelty making me far worse off than if I'd saved a few hundred thousand less, but Shorten will ensure I can't any longer. Yet NEVER does the benefit of robbing savers go to those in real need. Hockey's ''reform'' further rewarded people who were cruising on a pension, with a few hundred thousand in the bank, yet made the savings of countless thousands of self-funded worthless. One can only conclude the end game - pursued by BOTH parties - is a form of Communism or Feudalism.

    It's hard to blame people when the government is driving their behaviour. Yet the people who are quick to accuse and blame are the same people as support the wrongful government policies that create the problem.
    Adrianus
    11th Nov 2018
    9:53am
    I agree Geordie, far too many don't plan for eventual retirement. Home ownership in Australia is very high. Around 70% of homes are owner occupied. However what we find is that older people represent a higher proportion of non-home owners. Only about 4% of dwellings in OZ are owned by state governments, and used mostly to house the young, so it doesn't seem to be an incentive, but as oldies go into aged care they have no use for a dwelling, but can find a use for the cash.


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