Rudd v Turnbull

Do we really want Kevin Rudd and Malcolm Turnbull back to lead their respective parties?

On ABC TV’s panel program Q&A on Monday night, former Labor Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and former Opposition Leader Malcolm Turnbull strutted their stuff. During the one-hour television show they both answered wide-ranging questions on the economy, the revision of GST, climate change, productivity, industrial relations and education. They didn’t just answer these questions – they answered them well, displaying a formidable depth of knowledge and ability to present complex information in brief, comprehensible responses. The audience clearly enjoyed this power duo’s song and dance routine, which called forth a final question from Mr. Saeed Fassaie, quoted here in full:

“You two have a lot in common; you both are moderate, wealthy and not very popular in your own party but popular among people. Many Labour voters are disillusioned by the influence of the factions and unions. Many Liberal voters are disappointed by the influence of big business and the far right wing. Why don’t you two join and establish a new party that can open a new chapter in politics here in Australia?”

Amidst great mirth and self-deprecation, both Mr. Rudd and Mr. Turnbull denied categorically that they would challenge their respective leaders, although Mr. Turnbull could be described as ever so slightly less categorical. So it seems, unless they are telling porkies, that the leaderships of Mr. Tony Abbott and Prime Minister Julia Gillard are not under threat before the next election, due to be held sometime in 2013.

Download this episode of Q&A at the ABC website 
 

No Kevin, but yes, please, Malcolm

Come back, all is forgiven is what the Q&A audience seemed to be saying to both former leaders on Monday night as they laughed and clapped their way through the tap dancing routine described above.

But leading a country, or opposition party, requires much more than a neat performance on live TV. The nostalgia for what we think we have lost is palpable. There is grinning Kevin, still nerdy, but now more humorous and statesman like. And Malcolm, ever affable and polished, totally on top of domestic policy and world affairs.

But when Mr. Rudd was removed as PM his approval rating was declining, his temper tantrums with flight attendants were legendary and his ability to explain policy was questionable at best. His party panicked and the result was a new leader. When Mr. Turnbull was leading the Liberal Party he was responsible for a jaw-dropping attack on the then-PM, Mr. Rudd and Treasurer Wayne Swann, based on false reports from a highly unreliable public servant who was soon proven to be, given the most generous interpretation, completely delusional. Mr. Turnbull was challenged and lost the leadership – but only by one vote as he reminded us all again on Monday night. Mr. Rudd challenged Ms. Gillard in February and lost by a 2-1 result, as he also confirmed on Monday night.

So where is this heading? Do we really want these men back to lead their respective parties and the nation? Well let’s consider each one separately. I think Mr. Rudd looked relaxed, confident and entirely knowledgeable on Monday night and there was little he said I would disagree with. But I think it is easy to look that confident when you are on the backbench with more time and less responsibility than your party colleagues. I do not think his leadership style was inclusive when he was Prime Minister and I do think PM Gillard has done the hard yards and pushed through tough legislation to makeAustraliaa better country. She has shown her mettle despite repeated attacks from all quarters, so I think a swap back to Mr. Rudd would add little, despite his charm offensive on the ABC this week.

And that leaves me with Mr. Turnbull. Ah, Malcolm… what can I say? In this case I would swap his role with Mr. Abbott’s in a heartbeat. Mr. Abbott assumed the role of Opposition Leader with the statement that his role was to oppose – everything. And to be fair, he has pursued this plan relentlessly. But what a poor understanding of the Westminster system this is and what a poor outcome for our country it has led to. By all means, catch the government out when it presents poor policy or makes major mistakes, which all governments do. But have the courage to stand up and agree on matters of national importance such as climate change, a national water plan for the Murray Darling River system and our policy on refugees. So in the interests of a robust but workable parliament I believe we need an Opposition Leader who has the courage, like Mr. Turnbull, to recognise bad policy – such as work choices – when he sees it, to understand that climate change is not merely a Labor Party fantasy, and to push for policy which is for the good of all, regardless of who thought of it first.

Do you want Kevin Rudd back as leader of the Labor Party?
Yes
No
 
Do you want Malcolm Turnbull to replace Tony Abbot as Liberal leader?
Yes
No
 




    COMMENTS

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    doclisa
    22nd Nov 2012
    11:47am
    I think you are right Julia Gillard has done the hard yards and managed to get through extraordinary legislation given her government is tied to working with the sheer whimsy of the independents and an oppositon who have taken that word to heart and will not move on any positive step for the country. She has also been under constant bigoted attack as she is a woman which we have seen surface in the media. PM Gillard is our elected leader and needs support and respect as such. Malcom is a rich boy at play, while I agree with much of his social agenda he belongs to a party that supports a negative not very bright ex boxer and seminarian as leader. Really!
    smithjj
    22nd Nov 2012
    12:35pm
    Julia Gillard was NOT elected leader. In the first instance she acquired the position by treachery and in the second instance put there by the Green lunatics and independants.
    Rod63
    22nd Nov 2012
    12:54pm
    She WAS elected leader. The PM is elected by, and from within, the party which forms government. Sure, she wasn't leader when the election was held, but she was elected by the Labor Party as their leader, and thus as PM. So she was put there by her party - not the Greens and independents
    We don't have direct election of the PM (say, as the USA elects its president).
    aquatrek
    22nd Nov 2012
    1:01pm
    Rod63: try substituting 'treacherously elected leader' hehe
    Multidisab
    22nd Nov 2012
    3:55pm
    As a voter I can go by what I have seen of a viciousness in Abbot, an outright emotional blackmail in a country that is already living with 'goodhearted' bullies everywhere, including the anti-smoking movement.

    We are - as I confirmed with many I met on street corners - the lepers of the country, and expereince segregation at a high degree. And no-one will listen because no-one wants to know we are victims of trauma, whether it be from sexual abuse, accidents, tensions in the family, loss of culture/environment in migrants, etc.

    Yet I cannot trust Rudd; his performance when he lost was like he was not emotionally mature, yet sucks up to people in the street to make himself a stage person in the leading role - this to me is yakky stuff.

    Therefore the best options are those whom are experienced in politics but have not yet accumulated a severely negative image within their voters insights. And so I discovered how nicely followed the general trend of yes vs no!

    I agree with Kaye, this clever insightful reporter I am privileged to answer :)
    Rod63
    22nd Nov 2012
    11:51am
    I agree with all you have said, Kaye, about Kevin Rudd and Julie Gillard. Ms Gillard continues on doing an increasingly impressive job. I don't want to see Malcolm back however; he would boost the stocks of the Liberal Party and I don't want to see them re-elected. I would fear for our health system(s), education, the environment, workersand their families, pensioners, the disabled and other less fortunate people in our society.

    Having said that, IF the Liberals were to get back into power next election, I would much rather it be under Turnbull than the very right-wing leadership they have now.
    Sconny
    22nd Nov 2012
    12:41pm
    Well said. I am seriously planning emigration in the event of an Abbott/Bishop led government. They appear to be without viable ideas or empathy for ordinary Australians Turnbull is at the least a gentleman, and would bring some badly needed dignity to a Lib/Nat coalition IN OPPOSITION
    Pass the Ductape
    23rd Nov 2012
    6:53am
    There's nothing wrong with Tony that a decent set of lycra and a new bike seat couldn't fix. The outfit he wears now and the seat on his bike, both combine to make him walk funny!
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    3:16pm
    Tony for PM and all parliamentary folks at question time MUST wear lycra hahaha
    Aloysius
    22nd Nov 2012
    11:52am
    More than 50% of the population disagree with the Labour policy on climate change. Scientists disagree and anyone can find a selection to support or oppose it. More than 50 % of the population disgree with the carbon tax and the abandonment of a policy stance once the election was over. More than 50% of the population disagree with the labour policy on asylum seekers. More than 50% of the population are unhappy with the economic management of the Labour government. More than 50% of the people support opposition to Labour government and yearn for an election. Mr Turnbull has been described as more Labour than the Labour Party and it is unlikely he would be an acceptable leader by his colleagues.
    aquatrek
    22nd Nov 2012
    12:02pm
    Try Lateline from this week instead: as watched and reported upon by LP [extract];
    "SHORTEN THE FIRST TO DESERT GILLARD: As the truth closes in on Gillard and the rats start scratching at portholes, Bill Shorten is the first to prepare to desert the front line and leave his “mates” in the trenches. His pitiful attempt at fending off questions on the (previously asleep) ABC was unconvincing for good reason because Bill Shorten knows more than anyone about Gillard’s complicity in the AWU fraud.
    It was Shorten who went to great lengths to have it covered up.Shorten sat there, on the Lateline program, wriggling in his seat, alternating between shades of crimson, “I can’t recall... I wasn’t there”, he blustered. But you WERE there, Bob Shorten. As campaign manager for Bob Kernohan in 1992, you produced pamphlets documenting his opponent (Bruce Wilson's) fraudulent activities. Are you sure you weren’t there Shorten? Are you sure you know nothing about this Gillard/Wilson thing? If I presented you with one of your pamphlets, would you perhaps remember then?
    You had just completed your articles at Maurice Blackburn lawyers and on the AWU’s payroll under Bob Kernohan when, in 1995, the extent of the Gillard/Wilson fraud became known.It was you, Bill Shorten, who stood there with Bill Ludwig and tried to convince Ian Cambridge to drop his demands for a Royal Commission. You asked him to refuse to co-operate with the police investigation. You were successful with Cambridge (and Gillard has repaid him well) but even your union thugs couldn't convince Kernohan to back off, could they? “If this gets out, we all go down the gurgler!” That was how you described it, wasn’t it Shorten? Union members were not a priority for you, were they?"

    So, there is much that could happen in the next 12 months. But Rudd back in as a leader - extremely unlikely; Turnbull to roll Abbot would seem also unlikely. Gillard to go somewhere ? is a distinct possibility. Therefore it will be Abbot versus ??
    slapsy
    25th Nov 2012
    4:43pm
    I just cannot go on reading this nonsense from this serial offender.
    I am quitting before I am sick !!!
    I can just imagine what his further contributions will contain.
    JJ
    22nd Nov 2012
    12:04pm
    Kevin certainly shouldn't come back to the leadership role, but I feel he is sadly wasted on the back bench. Malcolm should absolutely definitely lead the Coalition! It's Tony who should be on the back bench despite his qualifications - he appears to be a pollie who doesn't hear what the voters are trying to say.

    The Opposition appear to have forgotten what the purpose of their existence requires. They are meant to act as Devil's Advocate, presenting dispassionate aspects of proposed legislation which may be seen as possible contraindications for passing laws as is; they may propose modifications to improve legislation, or indeed vote against it if they see it as unfair or unworkable. But to oppose for oppositions sake, and to make personal attacks on Government members, are both unacceptable behaviors.
    Bes
    22nd Nov 2012
    12:07pm
    Ditto Aloysius, we have seen how a minority government works and that it results in poor and watered down decisions.
    Whoever wins the next election, let it be on policy, mandate and a majority for the sake of Australia!
    Aloysius
    22nd Nov 2012
    1:37pm
    I think that you have put your finger on the most significant problem - the inordinate influence of the Greens. The Greens have an agenda for a one-world government that would destroy our sovereignty and most people are unaware of it.
    Taskid
    22nd Nov 2012
    2:14pm
    Aloysius

    Yes the Greens are a worry - what you see is not all you will get should they get more power. Many are moving towards the desire for one world government. The EU is already contemplating an EU combined defence forces.

    The Vatican is keen to see a one world economy. Worrying stuff.
    aquatrek
    22nd Nov 2012
    5:52pm
    MEK: a cupla observations
    1 try looking up NATO with its 28 nations already onboard
    2 On Monday, October 24, 2011, the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace published its recommendation for a globally empowered international authority over the world’s finances.This move by the Vatican may seem like simply “another academic paper” for policy wonks. But for students of Bible prophecy, the move represents possibilities of tremendous prophetic significance.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH prophesies - what a joke
    Aloysius
    22nd Nov 2012
    12:10pm
    Is it acceptable for the Labour Government members to make personal attacks but the the opposition must not? Really! Whoever you vote for, you are going to elect a politician.
    JJ
    22nd Nov 2012
    2:42pm
    Definitely NOT okay! Personal attacks from either side are out of line regardless of political persuasion. Yes, I know it's an unrealistic ask, but of late the attacks have become worse than usual. Imagine a parliament where there was mutual respect and co-operation. Not beyond the abilities of grown-ups surely??
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2012
    12:27pm
    There are no statesmen anymore. Or maybe stateswomen.....
    Smee
    22nd Nov 2012
    12:11pm
    Heaven forbid if Kevin leads the ALP to the next election; they might actually stand a chance. After all, he attracted votes towards Labor at the last election only to be knifed in the back by our so called 'elected leader'. She was not elected as leader and achieved the leadership in the most deceiptful and dishonest way. She is making a mockery of the office of Prime Minister.
    As for Malcolm; well at least he might get a little 'mongrel' about him and fight back against the name calling gutter politics of Labor. Doesn't appear to be too many shady deals and characters in Malcolm's past despite his rich boy image. Can't trust those rich, boxer types now can we?
    I wonder if Malcolm and his lot can ever get Australia's economy back to a surplus as quickly as Kevin's mob ran us in to defecit?
    aquatrek
    22nd Nov 2012
    12:16pm
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/government-budget

    adjust the From year to 1979 - it took about 5 years to claw back from deep in the red to the black line the last time the spendthrifts got their hands on the public coffers - a real true dinkum balanced non-fudged no-lies Swan surplus ? in their dreams only !!
    Rod63
    22nd Nov 2012
    12:29pm
    Smee: as Aloysius said, both sides are into personal attacks so your comment about "name calling gutter politics of Labor" is unfair and one-sided. As doclisa says above, the PM has been very much subject to that, probably more than anyone.
    Also Ms Gillard WAS elected as leader. It wasn't deceiptful and dishonest. This has happened many times in both major parties - a leadership spill and vote.
    Finally, don't forget, the main reason for the financial situation is the governmnents actions to keep us from recession during the GFC.

    The mining tax has been introduced to help with the country's financial situation while commodity prices are high.
    aquatrek
    22nd Nov 2012
    12:51pm
    Rod63: utter fiscal rubbish
    Michael
    22nd Nov 2012
    1:20pm
    Aquatrek, I do wish you would qualify your input as opinions, not fact !
    aquatrek
    22nd Nov 2012
    1:25pm
    Rod63: sorry to go on here a bit BUT an instantaneous ALP surplus within 12 months brought about by the GFC? Surely druidic magicians at work because prior to the recent massive dive into the bright red end of the pool circa 2010 the previous red plunge in 1984 also took about 5 years to get back into the shallower deep blue end of the pool !! watch the pea under the thimble - here she goes - whiz whiz whiz where it stops nobody knows - not even Wong & Swan have a clue
    aquatrek
    22nd Nov 2012
    1:26pm
    Michael: do pretty pictures help you get a grip on reality - try this

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/government-budget
    Michael
    22nd Nov 2012
    5:20pm
    Thanks, Aquatrek, for sharing your source of information. I too will see if I can get someone to read the real writing for me.
    smithjj
    22nd Nov 2012
    12:31pm
    You may admire Julia's tenacity in hanging on to her position as PM, but that is all she has shown talent for. Kevin, on Q&A, displayed all the oratory skills that won him the 2007 election; back in the position of PM he would be just as hopeless as before he was deposed.
    In his unquestioned acceptance of anthropogenic climate change Malcolm showed the same gullibility that brought about his demise as leader of the opposition.
    What people like you, Kaye, seem unable to grasp is that the planet's climate has always been in a state of flux due to natural forces. The belief that human activity can override all these natural forces is just another example of the same human arrogance displayed by those who think this planet and, indeed, the whole universe was created for the benefit of the human race.
    aquatrek
    22nd Nov 2012
    12:47pm
    steady on there 'fellow' smithjj hehe arrogant [some mentally insane on here stand out !!], gullible ['anthropogenic global warming' is now 'climate change' to protect the innocent naive and easily deceived or tricked]- and thats at least half of the homo sapien apes you have labelled !! to be fair yes the current government/s [ALP, Greens, Independants concoction] have put through many many bills and many many have passed - so that blows the description of a 110% LNP opposition stance outa da water as well. What facts do we have left to play with ? oh yeh, there WILL be a Federal election possibly sooner than later - I hope much sooner like tomorrow.
    aquatrek
    22nd Nov 2012
    12:58pm
    ps - in about 1994 Julia said that she was 'naive' when just a late 20's practicing industrial relations lawyer while deeply involved in defrauding the AWU and its members plus deceiving Slater & Gordon on the side. The TV series will make the gangland and Packer ones look like kindergarten tales.
    Kohleria
    22nd Nov 2012
    1:07pm
    Interesting to sit back and digest each opinion expressed in these forum sessions.
    Personal biased opinion is touted as fact and so often degenerates into "He said, She said" rhetoric.
    I am reminded of Robert Quillen's quote: “Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; argument is an exchange of ignorance”
    Michael
    22nd Nov 2012
    1:22pm
    Beautifully put, Kohleria, and isn't there a lot of "argument"
    aquatrek
    22nd Nov 2012
    1:29pm
    Michael: you would be the resident expert on THAT wouldnt you ?
    Aloysius
    22nd Nov 2012
    1:34pm
    I don't think that the condescending and judgemental comments from Kohleria and Michael add anything to the discussion except an attempt to stifle more comment.
    aquatrek
    22nd Nov 2012
    2:00pm
    Michael: olde buddy - are you so lazy and ignorant a blog 'contributor' that you just copy/paste one or two lines as I am pretty sure that you said precisely the same 'opinion not facts' statement previously to me many blogs ago. Unlike many on here I will/can/do back up my 'opinions' with facts wherever they are warranted. All you have to do is courteously ask if you are 'confused' at any point.
    Michael
    22nd Nov 2012
    10:07pm
    No, Aquatrek, I just enjoy winding you up---just as you enjoy winding up Mek and others of similar ilk. To be honest I quite enjoy most of your humour!
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    3:14pm
    I am quite deadly serious Michael at all times hehe
    Taskid
    23rd Nov 2012
    4:22pm
    Michael

    That poor sad creature does not wind me up I assure you. I have put him and his grubby foolish garbage in my online garbage can. He was funny till he couldn't help but show a side which would offend any intelligent remotely decent person. Now I just ignore him.
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    4:40pm
    Thats where you step in ALIEN MEK right on cue - enter stage left in biblical costume and idiot stone tablet held up for you to interpret [80% in biblical times couldn't read nor write - ok I made the 80% up, try 90%]. You have illustrated arrogance and ignorance to the extreme with little or even no respect for the bloggers/chatters/dissenters/opposites/opinionated/cranky/disillusioned/haters/carers etc = real people on here. Try the 'free speech' line again or start quoting some biblical many times over translated text and you will surely feel a darn lot better. But it would be much much nicer if just once you refrained and make any sort of topical comment on the topic - Rudd v Turnbull.
    Taskid
    23rd Nov 2012
    4:44pm
    Michael
    See - a perfect example of rubbish. Into my bin. How do people get so twisted? Sad really.
    Kohleria
    22nd Nov 2012
    1:53pm
    Interesting interpretation of the word condescending.
    Attempt to stifle more comment? Not in the least.
    Keep posting and I shall keep reading.
    Voltaire would agree. "I may not agree etc etc" but then again maybe same quote paraphrased by Oscar Wilde is also close to the mark.
    Michael
    22nd Nov 2012
    5:36pm
    Apparently we are persona-non-grata-----ah well!
    Taskid
    22nd Nov 2012
    2:29pm
    I personally was disappointed when Tony Abbott got in by that one vote because one person abstained (did one person stay away? Cannot remember. Politics are so forgettable.

    I felt at the time Malcolm Turnbull could have led those who supported him to form a new party. We sorely need it.

    Tony Abbott was a bad buy, he has added to the deterioration of the quality of debate and has zero policies apart from tear down the other party's programs.

    I despair of us having a decent governmnet in the future from either to be honest. Time is well past for a new party with an attitude to serve the people not themselves as happens now.
    aquatrek
    22nd Nov 2012
    2:47pm
    I was never ever interested in politics in the past but for some obscure reason I am now. A simple dissection is that there is a 'balance' between the Liberals [business - top to bottom] and the Nationals [rural] whereas the ALP is fundamentally a workers union based ideological platform. The latter may be an anachronism from the past and not truly representative of Oz today as there is little industrial manufacturing etc as in the 50's through the 80's. So the current 'coalition' of Greens [a fair, prosperous and sustainable future?] and difficult to define independents is a very strange mix.

    What, where and how would a new party spring from ?
    Grateful
    22nd Nov 2012
    3:00pm
    Gee!! How do people get so carried away with politics, politicians and their "morals"?
    I will be showing my level of interests in this world now by asking one simple question. Aquatrek, are YOU Sheldon from "It all started with a big bang"????
    aquatrek
    22nd Nov 2012
    5:26pm
    'We' the Oz persona's are a product of the past and the Oz governance history duration is that of approx 2/3 LNP and 1/3 ALP ever since the Federation cranked into being. So the universal 'big bang' theory is not politically relevant but Sheldon is definitively the produce of a 'big bang' in the universe somewhere hehe The actual universal 'big bang' theory has now 'expanded' hehe into a 'what came before the big bang' big Q. Sheldon would definitively know that answer and make a good new leader for the Oz peoples ! No, I am definitively not he.
    Sylvia
    22nd Nov 2012
    3:03pm
    I just despair.. so many pollies , and look at the state of this country, so next time we head for the polls look into the background of who ever you are voting for, read their resume, they are after a job and you have the chance to choose the best person in your opinion for that job, I listen to Labour and Liberals and some times agree with one side, and sometimes with the other side,surely we need who ever is voted in by the people to vote as their constituents prefer, I am sick of this party business, it would be great if some MPs would have more ethics and vote with their feet if they know it is for the good of the country.
    Maybe then we can sort out the invasion that is occuring with out a shot being fired and we are actually paying for it to happen,
    I pray we have some people out there with the wisdom and foresight to sort the whole mess out.
    Talking about world government I have a feeling it is already here, because things happen here and our parliament has to toe the line, the UN is already calling the shots. One of these days we will wake up?
    And by the way, I think who ever leads the next government and opposition should be some new blood, the others have all had a shot at it, and we are not happy.
    Grateful
    22nd Nov 2012
    3:17pm
    Tony Windsor for P.M.?? Seems like a nice guy with basic, simple ideas and IS an Independent.

    Excuse the pun Sylvia, but I wish that the U.N. WOULD call a STOP to the shots being fired in Syria. They are the lamest duck on earth.
    Aloysius
    22nd Nov 2012
    3:17pm
    My view is that you have to keep changing the governing party as they become arrogant and complacent very quickly. It is only soft touches like Australia that toe the UN line. Many countries ignore the UN as it has no real power and can never get agreement in its own ranks. The major powers can veto any resolution and they do on a regular basis. It really sickens me that Aussie leaders (Howard, Rudd, Gillard) feel that they have to strut the world stage and preach to others on morality and to distribute our tax revenue to other countries whilst ignoring the plight of many Aussies.
    Aloysius
    22nd Nov 2012
    3:20pm
    It is my hope that Tony Windsor and the other independents lose their seats at the next election. Tony Windsor stood as an independent after being in the LNP and his electorate expected him to continue as a conservative. He sold them out.
    Rod63
    22nd Nov 2012
    3:36pm
    I admire Tony Windsor. I think he has done a good job in very difficult circumstances, as has Bob Oakeshott.
    Kohleria
    22nd Nov 2012
    5:13pm
    Aloysius. Don't know your Electorate but I live in the one represented by Tony Windsor and for mine he is an excellent Member.
    It is obvious you don't know the full story behind him leaving the Nationals.
    He stood as an independent and was elected as an Independent NOT a Conservative. The Electorate spoke.
    Because he made a decision based on circumstances AT THE TIME and you don't happen to agree with that decision does not make a sell out.
    I have no doubt you would think him a wonderful bloke if he had supported your views.
    Don't count the chickens before the next election.
    aquatrek
    22nd Nov 2012
    5:37pm
    Grateful: dont you worry one little bit about the UN. The Oz red hued bespeckled 'genie out of the bottle' suddenly appeared and granted three wishes but only if the three questions are answered 100% correctly: 1 what is my chicken name ? 2 who plucked me from chicken obscurity ? why was I chicken plucked from a disused chicken coop ? Stay tuned for the Kentucky Fried chicken answers only available with an extra order of french fries ordered after 11 pm on every 3rd Tuesday of alternate months in odd years. Yep, 2013 will be a chicken coop fight like no other.

    22nd Nov 2012
    5:54pm
    What does the A.l.P. stand for, BECOME AN UNION OFFICE HOLDER, ONLY A.L.P. MEMBERS CAN DO THIS, HELP YOURSELF TO THE UNION FUNDS OF THE WORKERS AND THEN STAND FOR PARLIAMENT AS A MEMBER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY, NO FURTHER QUESTIONS WILL BE ASKED AND IF YOU GET CHALLENGED ON YOUR PAST RECORD THE STATE A.LP. OFFICE WILL PAY YOUR LEGAL COST. Voting for the A.L.P. is like inviting the fox to come and eat your chickens.
    Just ask Yourself when was the last time an Labor Party Govt. did not leave a State or Federal deficit for the people to pay back while they, the Labor Members defeated, enjoy the reaps of their INCOMPETENT ADMINISTRATION OF THE STATES OR COUNTRY, by pensions which should not be worthy to anyone so ignorant of their duties to this great country.
    When defeated they also can expect a cosy job provided by the UNIONS, such as being Directors of the Union Superannuation Funds, all I can say, God help those workers.
    As far as I'am concerned vote for either Rudd or Turnbull and reap the result of your vote!!!!
    Pass the Ductape
    23rd Nov 2012
    7:38am
    Dead right! This is why there will never be a shortage of people wanting to stick their snouts in the political troughs - of all persuasions.

    I.E. Think not of what you hope I can do for you - but what you'll ultimately be doing for for me!
    Sylvia
    22nd Nov 2012
    8:43pm
    Aquatrek, Hi Chook! thanks for the smiles.
    Kali-G
    22nd Nov 2012
    8:57pm
    Please if there is a God, than NO TO RUDD!
    KKKKatie
    22nd Nov 2012
    9:03pm
    And God help us all.
    PlanB
    23rd Nov 2012
    6:45am
    I thought it was a NICE change to see the 2 from opposite sides bounce off each other on Q&A the other night --what a difference from Abbott, Pyne and Bishop --if Abbott ever gets to be the PM we will be the laughing stock of the world
    Aloysius
    23rd Nov 2012
    7:54am
    At one time it was going to be Abbott and Costello. Be amused by the gilthead and the swandive as they can be pretty funny (if only it wasn't so serious).
    jlhf43
    27th Nov 2012
    11:03pm
    Hullo Plan B - I was wondering when someone who I used to see on here would bob up again. Still busy doing my bit of work - it's grown like Topsy - so I don't get time for forums these days, but thought I'd look in on the political topics again. To the others of you, I pose a question... if all the LP comments on his website and Facebook were untrue, how come the PM hasn't sued the pants off him and others? Where there's smoke there's fire and it about to erupt into an inferno. I can't wait to see it. And you should do some research into MT's business background. He has vested interests in the progress or otherwise of the NBN among other things. Very polished and presentable, but... and it's the "buts" that concern me. TA might be less polished but I'd sooner have him in my corner than just about any one else, especially those independent MPs. At least he is down to earth educated man with morals and ethics, which is more than can be said for the government.
    Nemo
    23rd Nov 2012
    9:16am
    I thought Rudd did a great job of explaining policy and his position on Q&A.

    Is a team player? Probably not. Is he a megalomaniac control freak? Maybe. Is he a much better alternative than Julia? You bet.

    Australians are tired of 'transactional leaders' like Julia, Tony or Johnny Howard (the kind of leaders who give you something, say a tax cut, and then take something somewhere else). My take on the electorate is they want a vision for the future and a leader that will take them there. For all his faults, Kevin has a vision and he articulates it pretty well.

    Malcom has work to do in that respect. He said absolutely nothing on Q&A. Kevin to his credit stepped up with his vision of how things should run.

    Want to do the electorate a favour. Solve the housing bubble and put the breaks on the out of control child care costs and piss poor services in that sector. Both of those elephants are crippling Aussie families and making work options overseas that much more attractive. Oh, and tax the miners! :-)
    Grateful
    23rd Nov 2012
    11:51am
    Very well put Nemo.
    See, some others, you don't have to be bitter and bigoted to get your message across and more likely to be respected.
    And the Coalition had better be careful by having Julia Gillard removed before the next election, she will be much easier to be beaten than Kevin Rudd who would turn the polls around completely against Tony Abbott. He is MUCH more liked by the voters and will ALSO get the sympathy vote.
    P.S. And have you noticed that all the blokes from both sides are always wearing blue ties? Supposed to make them more "likeable" and less aggressive??!!
    PlanB
    23rd Nov 2012
    12:18pm
    I would rather have Rudd than Gillard----and yes they say ties say a lot--you may not notice them all the time but it is subliminal
    PlanB
    23rd Nov 2012
    3:12pm
    Hi Val, I am darned if I can understand WHY any one would even think about voting for that darn fool Abbott. He is not leader material--never will be--and makes a fool of himself almost every time he opens his mouth.
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    3:18pm
    I'll bet my l..t o.e that you have a black kettle hahahahahahahaha
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    3:34pm
    I am sure that you will figure it out given enough time - 1st Google kettle
    PlanB
    23rd Nov 2012
    3:21pm
    Sorry Aqua, I don't know what you mean
    Anonymous
    23rd Nov 2012
    3:34pm
    Plan B - pot kettle black he means.

    Their party room is happy with Abbott as its leader and it is not the same as with Labor as no caucus behind the parliamentary party or faceless men.

    Turnbull said it himself, they collectively do the necessary discussions and also very importantly to me anyway, they do consider the consequences of their actions on policy which is sadly lacking in this latest Labor Government who are far worse than any previous one and have caused deaths and real harm to people by it.
    Anonymous
    23rd Nov 2012
    3:54pm
    Pink batts - 4 lives lost in rooves and over 100 homes burnt to the ground and many damaged with millions to ay for remedial action just one exampleof consequences.

    Another is the 33000 boat arrivals mainly muslim meaning large families once the all get here from back home on family reunion and of course a burden on welfare payments as cant earn the amount at work and welfare geared to lots of children by Bob Hawke no child in poverty which hasnt been the outcome either as money spent on TAB Pay TV booze fags and whatever and both governments since guilty but media would have been harder on Howard as they were when he did try the Intervention. Vouchers would sort the problem as long as made sure not rorted by greed.

    23rd Nov 2012
    3:29pm
    Not a fair poll by any means as most here - from posts over time and admin for sure, many do vote Labor, and it is Labor voters who prefer Malcolm Turnbull as he is a left winger and very much more in tune with the ALP as even Kevin Rudd said on the program on Monday.

    Poll in the Herald following day exactly same as Kaye's but with a vastly different outcome

    Abbott much preferred as leader with a huge amount of the votes.

    And more votes for that question than the Rudd one who got similar result to here, not wanted.
    PlanB
    23rd Nov 2012
    3:42pm
    Thanks Val, for explanation

    I don't like Gillard either--but Abbott NO WAY
    Anonymous
    23rd Nov 2012
    4:02pm
    I dont like any of these 2 myself because of course I dont 'know' them only what we see on the TV.

    I wont vote labor ever again as gave up on them in the eighties when Bob Hawke took those donations from big business and founded The Accord which hurt the working class badly.

    Now heard The Accord mark 2 on the books - so what another round of holding back the wages of the working class whilst pushing up profits for employers who award themselves higher payments from that and then take their businesses off shore again whilst unions sit back and do nothing as before whilst their members bleed off once again.
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    3:43pm
    coolishly off the stone chipping tablet machino:

    http://michaelsmithnews.typepad.com/files/victoria-police-blewitt-galbally.pdf
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    3:47pm
    Anyone wanna be ALP leader pls step forward here - HALZTEN !!
    extenda ze arm lika so - zay afta meez "I maka da promisa to notta steal fromma da workas for abouta foura da yearsa - denna I promissa to resigna".
    Anonymous
    23rd Nov 2012
    4:13pm
    No I reckon she will still be there for the next election - shouldn't of course but then look at others like Thomson stretched it out and the ALP wont want Rudd back any which way - llike she wont put in TPV's which scared off the smugglers passengers - 'face' is all with this lot.

    When they elected labor knew we were in for interesting times but never this bad could have been envisaged. just usual debts and lots of rotten laws punishing the many for the few as no guts to actually do anything because left wing dogma says excuse all bad behaviour etc which is why our law and order is just about non existent more just lip service rather than punishment meaning lots of criminals back out on the streets re-doing their crimes keeping the Lawyers all in business etc.

    Sadly for Sarah one too many as usual without the Death Penalty.
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    4:23pm
    Did you read today's legal deposition link above ?
    Blewitt promised M Smith and L Pickering that he would return to Oz from Thailand just a few days ago so as to 'spill the beans' and 'put things right'. Hallelujah

    If this PM is criminally charged the entire Oz political machinations will make substantial shifts in how they are run, especially the ALP. It may even be the end of the archaic ideological ALP.
    doclisa
    24th Nov 2012
    8:15am
    I actually like Gillard. I think she has done some amazing things in legislation. There are several things that I don't want to happen, as always with government. There is an overwhelming wierdness out there about Gillard. Like the statements that "she was not elected'. She was elected by the party initially. Then she went to the polls and she was elected and could form a governemnt. Tony Abott was NOT elected and he could not form a government. So I wish this falsehood would stop being repeated.
    The crazy 'we dont like carbon tax' rubbish. Of course you dont like carbon tax....it serves a purpose to rein in us using all the resources at once, aside form the potential to slow down carbon release into the atmosphere. This is a tax on polluters. If one seriously stopped screaming about your own electricity bill and actually chose to shift you thinking our use of resources could slow down. Who was it who said 'unfortunately many people believe they are thinking when they are just rearranging their prejuidices'.
    Rod63
    24th Nov 2012
    9:42am
    Great points, doclisa
    Anonymous
    24th Nov 2012
    4:13pm
    Actually she didnt have enough votes to form a government and the Coalition won on votes and seats but they have this to me - weird thing that sitting government can form government if can get independents to support them which is what happened in fact to my knowledge.

    Same happened down here in Tassie - Labor got voted out by electorate but was given the opportunity to form one by Governor and did with the help of 2 Greens actuals sitting in the Cabinet. Bit different to Feds. But Liberals won on votes here too just like 2010 in Canberra.
    Anonymous
    24th Nov 2012
    4:16pm
    Sorry should say she didnt enough enough 'seats' not just votes neither did the other side but they had more and so won technically.
    uthinkso
    24th Nov 2012
    3:28pm
    Could some knowledgable person recall a business in which a Mr Adler and Malcolm Turnbull were involved, pass on to me any related information. Would be much obliged.
    aquatrek
    24th Nov 2012
    5:22pm
    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/05/13/1021002433444.html

    Defiant Turnbull defends role in FAI sale
    By Jennifer Hewett May 14 2002
    Testy responses ... Malcolm Turnbull with his wife, Lucy, after the inquiry yesterday. Photo: Nick Moir

    A confident Malcolm Turnbull faced the HIH royal commission yesterday and said Rodney Adler was not really the right person to run an insurance company day to day. Mr Turnbull was explaining his role in several months of negotiations with Mr Adler over a possible privatisation of FAI before its fateful purchase by HIH.

    Mr Turnbull, the federal Liberal Party's new treasurer, was chairman and managing director of the investment bank Goldman Sachs Australia in 1998. In often testy exchanges with counsel assisting the royal commission, Mr Turnbull was questioned about his involvement with Mr Adler and FAI when Goldman Sachs was considering acting as a potential co-investor with Rodney Adler in a deal to take FAI private. 'Mr Adler was never regarded as a client and never was a client," Mr Turnbull said. 'He was a prospective client in line with every other company in Australia." His view at the time was that Mr Adler was an entrepreneur by nature and was not really the right person to run in a day to day sense a general insurance company.
    PlanB
    24th Nov 2012
    3:48pm
    uthinkso, was it an insurance--HIH or something like that ?

    27th Nov 2012
    8:22am
    Why do people dislike Tony so much? I will be interested in your opinions...with thanks....
    Michael
    28th Nov 2012
    4:09pm
    Could it be because he is so un-likeable?
    PlanB
    27th Nov 2012
    9:01am
    Wendy, I dislike Tony Abbott because --he does not care about honestly -- also for what he did to Pauline Hansen--and Bernie Banton--he is also far to influenced buy his religion--he is a very negative person--and yet can NOT come up with any policies of his own--he wants to be the PM (the leader of this country) but is unable to make a lot of sense in anything he says and he makes such a fool of himself every time he opens his mouth plus he can not be trusted as he has stated himself that he will
    -- DO ANYTHING -- to get the top job
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2012
    12:25pm
    Appreciate your thoughts PlanB...thanks. Interesting garnering others' opinions eh. Do you have thoughts on an "ideal" for PM?
    PlanB
    27th Nov 2012
    12:56pm
    Well Wendy, I thought Rudd would be good--but seems others thought not ?--At this time I really have lost faith in politics--seems like they are all in it for their own good and we are fast being sold out--and they are not listening to the people at all
    jlhf43
    27th Nov 2012
    11:56pm
    I have to disagree with you Plan B - Tony Abbott has more honesty and integrity in his left index finger than ANY current Labor politician you care to mention. Anyhow what is wrong with his religious beliefs? He is a committed Catholic, who conducts his life in his own fairly strict standards. The following is an extract from an article I was sent and I cannot attribute to the author, but if you can be bothered to check, as I have, you will verify the facts in this extract. "If you are wondering where some of the negativity attributed to Tony Abbott comes from, go on to the Net and have a look at the comments which followed, 2 years ago, when he was asked by the Women's Weekly
    "What advice would you give your three daughters on sex before marriage?"
    He told the magazine: ‘’I would say to my daughters, if they were to ask me this question …it is the greatest gift you can give someone, the ultimate gift of giving and don't give it up to someone lightly."
    Yet, if you were to read many of the comments on the internet and the print media at the time, you could be forgiven for thinking he was attempting to impose his will on all females in Australia, had ranted against women, had argued for Muslim like chastity, and so on................... see for yourself - Google it! Gillard's response was to accuse Abbott of "lecturing women"???
    I have also included a video of Abbott where he commented on, in what seems to me to be quite a balanced fashion, "climate change" yet the title of the video suggests he has been extreme in "denying climate change and advocating carbon tax". See what you think. http://youtu.be/oPpQisoZqx4 Then have a look at the longer interview from which this original exerpt was taken http://youtu.be/ZoCKhNr8Atk.
    Abbott has had a history of being told by 'ABC types' that he lacks compassion, does not understand homosexuality or homosexuals, avoids situations where he might need to face up to gay relationships, and so on. Again, because he was not prepared to reveal personal issues of others (ethics, principles,?), he did not speak about his own sister's gay relationship and the part he played in supporting her. It would have been an easy defence for him, but in line with his principles and values, he chose not to use it.
    Granted, he is not a super smooth, off the cuff, speaker, and does not fit the orator mould. But when he is compared to the glib tongues and untrustworthiness of Gillard, Rudd, Swan, etc, it is not difficult to determine which attributes are more important for the leadership of Australia.
    After Abbott completed his studies, he became a journalist for The Bulletin and also the Australian. For a time he was plant manager for Pioneer Concrete, then became press secretary for the then Opposition Leader, Dr John Hewson. He was elected to Parliament in 1994 at a bi-election. He has held various Ministerial posts and his actions in those roles are a matter of public record . His work ethic is unquestioned.
    He was dismayed at the policies of former leader Malcolm Turbull relating to ETS, and following widespread disaffection with Turnbull's stance among Liberal Party members, threw his hat into the ring, as did Joe Hockey, for leadership of the Liberal Party. Abbott was successful. At the time, the polls were running strongly against the Liberal Party (in the 40% approval range), while Kevin Rudd enjoyed figures around 60%. Within a short space of time, with Abbott as leader, those figures changed to such a degree that Rudd was replaced in the now infamous "faceless men" coup which installed Gillard. Since that time, Abbott has maintained constant focus on the ever widening circle of disasters associated with the Gillard government to the stage where support for that government now hovers around the 30% mark.
    Whilst I do not know Abbott personally, he strikes me as a person of integrity, he has values in which I too believe, and ethics based on his Christian beliefs. I would much rather place my trust in someone who, in his actions, has shown he is what he says, rather than someone who will say anything to gain a prospective advantage for themselves."
    Rod63
    28th Nov 2012
    9:07am
    "Tony Abbott has more honesty and integrity in his left index finger than ANY current Labor politician you care to mention."
    "the glib tongues and untrustworthiness of Gillard, Rudd, Swan, etc"

    What a one-sided, blinkered view. So ALL Labor politicians have little or no honesty and integrity and are untrustworthy. I know for an absloute fact that is NOT the case.
    Now, I believe Tony Abbott is also, basically, a good man. I don't like much of his politics, however, and don't agree with his views on many things. However, he is a much more decent person than some of his colleagues, such as Christopher Pyne and Eric Abetz. I can't imagine they are popular even among Liberal voters.
    jlhf43
    28th Nov 2012
    12:00am
    And Big Val is still here, too.
    PlanB
    28th Nov 2012
    6:40am
    Each to their own and we agree to disagree--on Abbott
    PlanB
    28th Nov 2012
    9:23am
    Now, I believe Tony Abbott is also, basically, a good man. I don't like much of his politics, however, and don't agree with his views on many things. However, he is a much more decent person than some of his colleagues, such as Christopher Pyne and Eric Abetz. I can't imagine they are popular even among Liberal voters
    ++
    You are also right about Pyne and the rest but don't forget Julie Bishop--what a beast that woman is
    jlhf43
    28th Nov 2012
    2:56pm
    Julie Bishop is a lady, which is more than be said of our PM! Who hates Christopher Pyne? Not anyone I know here in Adelaide. He is witty, well educated and has a very good command of English, which mostly is used with good effect in the federal parliament. He isn't experienced or politically mature enough yet, but he is a leader in the making. Just give him time and he may well be the PM! And yes there are some decent, honest Labor MPs, but few in the cabinet or the ministry, except Minister Macklin, whom I believe has a heart and scruples for the work she oversees, Julie Collins & and young Amanda Rishworth, from SA now she is a really hard working, dedicated young woman in our area and I like her a lot.


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