Shorten’s Budget 2017 reply ramps up the fairness fight

Labor to push for increased taxes to only affect higher income earners.

Shorten’s Budget 2017 reply ramps up the fairness fight

A fairness fight has broken out post-Budget 2017 with Opposition Leader Bill Shorten declaring the Turnbull Budget “fails miserably to emulate Labor policies”.

Mr Shorten’s speech was pre-empted by the news that the hotly debated $50 billion company tax cut will actually cost $65.4 billion in the 10th year. So it was a confident Opposition Leader who faced the House last night to deliver his party’s verdict on Treasurer Scott Morrison’s plans. He led with the context that the coalition has ‘wasted four years’, with wages growth at record lows, and under-employment and casualisation of the work force at record highs. “It fails the fairness text, is an admission of guilt and a war on young people”, he declared.

So what does Labor support? The levy on the banks has full support, with a caveat that it was up to the Turnbull Government to ensure none of this tax is passed on to consumers. “If the banks pass on a single dollar of this tax to Australian families, then that should be the end of this Treasurer, Prime Minister and this government”, Mr Shorten challenged.

This is problematic to say the least, with Ian Narev, head of the Commonwealth Bank, this morning declaring the levy will be passed on to customers or shareholders as there was no way to absorb it.

Labor will also continue to call for a Royal Commission into the banking sector, another point of difference with the Coalition.

Labor will only support the increased Medicare Levy for the top two tiers of taxpayers (i.e with incomes above $87,000 per annum), and make up the shortfall to fund the NDIS by retaining the deficit levy for higher income earners.

In education, Labor will oppose changes to HECs funding, including higher fees and lower payback thresholds and will invest $22 billion that it claims that the government has stripped out of the Gonski reforms.

Reduction of negative gearing incentives and capital gains tax concessions remain on the table, with an expected $37 billion worth of savings as a result. Mr Shorten was scathing about the Treasurer’s ‘super savings’ plan for young homebuyers, describing it as “microscopic assistance for young people, with the $565 per home not even covering the cost of removalists”

Chasing multinationals who offshore tax which should be paid in Australia was another target, as were the 48 Australian millionaires who paid no tax at all.

In summary, the Opposition Leader once again claimed to ‘own’ the issue of fairness for all, stating:

“Fairness is not some slogan you can borrow.  Fairness is not measured by what you say – but what you do”

What do you think? Does redrawing the lines on who pays a levy on Medicare and retaining the Budget Deficit Levy for higher income earners make a difference in your life?

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    COMMENTS

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    MICK
    12th May 2017
    10:26am
    I was surprised at how well Shorten delivered his response. Normally he is quite sterile but was direct and to the point last night.
    I have been saying that this government is engaged in Class Warfare for quite a time now and it is about time that the public was told lest it believe we have a government for the nation.
    Shorten was too the point. The Morrison budget was and is a budget for millionaires. At the risk of blowing the opposition's trumpet this is the truth and it should be told lest the lemmings are again fooled by the next slick media campaign to extract their votes.
    We need a proper government. Not this bunch of low life misfits governing for the top end of town with money extorted from the bottom end.
    grounded
    12th May 2017
    11:08am
    Of course you are definitely right Mick....Shorten is our man for EQUALITY....why shouldn't the top end of town be reduced to the same level.... as the church house poor mice at the bottom end of the village.

    Makes good sense to smash down the EMPLOYMENT PROVIDING top end of town hogs.....We CAN ALL be unemployed and poor together. True SOCIALIST/COMMO EQUALITY...we can then all demonstrate in the streets together....with our reduced Government handouts - pensions.

    Lemmings Mick!?....go and have a good look in a mirror!
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    12:10pm
    That is not what I ever said or what I believe in.
    The top deserves a fair go too but not by using its propaganda machine to constantly elect its stooges into government and then have them behave like the current government. The tax cuts for the wealthy at a time the well off are avoiding tax like never before and at an unprecedented rate needs to end.
    Socialist? Is that what you call it when you demand that the top pay the correct rate of tax. Next you'll be spouting the 'Trickle Down Effect'....the blatant lie to justify the unjustifiable.
    I am no lemming. I just call for the government casino employed by its rich constituents to fix the game and create a FAIR playing field. It's pretty easy to understand: you pay the appropriate rate of tax....not what the fraudulent accounting industry can arrange for you! Is that clear grounded? Thanks.
    Adrianus
    12th May 2017
    12:58pm
    It's MICK and Bill. It's a bromance.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    1:43pm
    At least not a trollogy Frank. Thought you only showed up at election time mate.
    grounded
    12th May 2017
    2:02pm
    @ Mick.....I take your points on board....and can even see the merit of some. The sad fact of Capitalism is that it breeds a relative percentage of greedy SOB's...as the Socialist alternative throws up a sizeable smattering of hard core Bludgers. That is humanity for you!

    The field is as level as you are ever going to find it....the most level it has been for the past 2000 years....since when even JC himself tried 'sorting' out the money changers....and failed!

    I could rattle off 'umpteen dozens of names of obscenely overpaid Corporate Fat Cats, Company Directors, Politicians, Judges, Bankers, Public Service Heads, Commission and Quango Honchoes, etc., etc.,...dead end dollar soaking Toadies, who should be horse whipped for breathing the good clean air they thieve....That wouldn't change the playing field one iota Mick.

    Like it or not Mick, humanity is driven by the content of its' wallet....FAR BEYOND any political manifesto it may subscribe to...check out the residences of where Hawke, Keating, Howard, Rudd, Gillard or Turnbull reside....in addition to all being Millionaires or multi-Millionaires Mick. (yep, those 'stinking' Millionaires again)

    (Abbott omitted purposely, as he still owes thousands on the Mortgage of his very ordinary suburban home...and is formally recorded as far, far less than a cash value Millionaire.)

    Partially Mick, Trickle Down Economics does apply...only a simpleton would say otherwise....whilst I realise that both Parties; when it suits them, overstate the relevance of Triple Down Economics...

    No Mick...I can't see ANY difference in Shorten and his Crew...than those currently occupying the Treasury Benches....totally equal lowlifes...not withstanding that Shorten has a sizeable handful of hard core 'pinkoes' on his team who would be absolutely overjoyed in turning this country into another socialist Venezuela...as could have easily occurred before the voting majority of Lemmings saw the impending disaster in 2013, and put pay to it.!

    We probably agree in principal on a majority of things Mick....only you; in turn, are glibly suggesting that one would have to be a Lemming to be mindful, and cautious of the return of another big spending, break the Bank Government...or Casino, as was unceremoniously tossed out in 2013. Leopard's DO NOT change their spots Mick...never have, never will...so who else is there to vote for Mick...in the HOR's. Regards Mick.
    moke
    12th May 2017
    4:24pm
    WOW! Mick you have made my day. You put it exactly as many people will see and understand this government. Putting what they see as the lower class down and up for those who already have to much and rort the system at every opportunity
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    5:31pm
    grounded: you are showing some merit. Let me say that I have NEVER denied the top end their gains. The caveat here is that they do not control the political and financial system and try to take the lot. This is America to a tee and currently fair minded Australia is heading the same way.
    As long as the rich keep they greedy noses out of politics I'll be content. Owning apolitical party and controlling politicians should be made an offence carrying a jail term as should politicians selling legislative outcomes to people.
    I am sure there are still societies where a balance exists. Not sure if the Murdoch Press owns any assets in these jurisdictions though and I'll leave it up to others to come up with those answers.
    We'll have to agree to disagree on letting the top end go grounded. A decent society needs rules of conduct. Without that we are but a pack of animals and the thought of our wonderful country being brought down to that level by the idle rich playing their game of chess with our lives is too hard to bear. It should be for you as well. Our country can do better than that.

    Thanks for the pat on the back moke. If I can get people to come around and understand how the game works and how we are continually being 'farmed' then change will come in time.
    Wstaton
    13th May 2017
    5:32pm
    Yep Mick the same as me. I have never downed the people who have amassed their fortunes as long as they have done it fair and square. Not a the way the predominantly rich seemed to try and do it.
    TMac
    12th May 2017
    10:34am
    Shorten is nothing more than a puppet for the militant unions, god help this country if he gets a hold of the reins...
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    10:35am
    I agree.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    10:38am
    And Turnbull is the rubber stamp for millionaires and multinationals and tax avoiders. God help us if he and his government are not thrown out. They will be.
    tia-maria
    12th May 2017
    11:24am
    TMAC your entitle to your opinion and I for one don't agree with it??
    Back in my early days if it was not for the unions we never have what we have today good working conditions.............Its time we have a bloody change in government and get rid of this Liberal party ..........AND YES........give Bill Shorten a go at being PM
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    11:51am
    Bill Shorten will never be PM.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    12:11pm
    Who cares. It's just that the current bunch of misfits and crooks need to go.
    Rae
    12th May 2017
    12:43pm
    For a while I worked for the government and wouldn't have put a foot through the front door without Union legal backup. As for any pay rise or better condition. Every concession was hard won by campaigns that took up time and money.

    There is a point in every debt fuelled, greed inflated cycle when the money runs out. The punters can't or won't borrow any longer and wallets are flat so the merry-go-round stops. I want the LNP to be firmly in control when it happens and made to face the consequences.
    Adrianus
    12th May 2017
    1:01pm
    MICK, we don't need to get rid of the opposition, we need them to be more loyal to Australia!!
    Anonymous
    12th May 2017
    1:39pm
    Backwards as usual - the Union movement does itself a disservice by adhering to uni sidewalk cafe' Labor with all it's ramped up ideas of 'equality' etc at the cost of many others..

    All those militant Unions - the nurse, firefighters, police - some of the strongest ones in the nation, BTW, right there - and where are the massive campaigns of 'militancy' going on right now?

    Some here and elsewhere need to stop dreaming of a glorious past and get in touch with reality.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    1:46pm
    The truth is Frank we need a coalition government which works for the nat rather than the wealthy amongst us who fund their election campaigns. I would accept that.
    By your very words the last 4 years has seen rats in charge who couldn't give a damn about the nation as they ran up huge debt which the media never much mentions whilst achieving zip for the country
    Paddles
    12th May 2017
    1:52pm
    As an avid observer of the political shenanigans, I sometimes fantasize as to what would happen if the Government of the day ( in this case the Coalition), to end the mindless and futile carping of the Opposition, just threw their hands up in the air and said...."stuff it, we are tired of this shitfight, we're outta here!" and left the whinging, moaning, carping Laborites to their own devices.

    This would leave Mr Shorten and the Trades Hall a clear field to do what they will and be solely answerable to the electorate for the results. Now, wouldn't that be an interesting scenario?
    moke
    12th May 2017
    4:26pm
    TMac ever heard met or voted for a Politician that is for the people of Australia in general. They are all there for their own benefit and that of their money hungry mates.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    5:36pm
    Paddles: the question you should be asking is why did the mainstream media run a propaganda campaign of the proportions it did against the Gillard government? Then ask WHY was the Carbon Tax repealed and 2 governments worth of legislation repealed by Abbott and his cronies.
    As always the money trail leads to the interests of the rich. Their party is there to own the game at any cost and will not give up this right unless it see a calamity coming. Did you ever ask yourself WHY Rudd was pushed in by Murdoch when he was? To cop the blame for the GFC maybe and the hard decisions made thereafter? Remember the GFC hit literally weeks after Rudd won office. Worth thinking about................
    Adrianus
    13th May 2017
    10:45am
    MICK, you're funny lol.
    I get a good laugh from your conspiracy theories. Thanks mate, keep it up. Iol
    FEDUP
    12th May 2017
    10:35am
    Surely Bill Shorten must realise that the "Higher Paid" and Taxable two tiers and the ones that are also in the "deficit levy", claim back on tax their "Private Health Insurance, therefore paying little or nothing to the Medicare or NDIS, when it is implemented.
    Negative Gearing, should not be scrapped altogether, but restricted to 1 investment house per person and Capital Gains Tax applied to only homes where the owner has not been the occupier 10 years. Especially if the owner is "Downsizing" as allowed by the current Government.
    I think, and this is my own opinion. That the general population is sick and tied of politicians trying to score points off each other, when they could sit down and offer a compromise for the betterment of Australia and work to that end.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    10:41am
    Sounds like a vested interest FEDUP. You need to put yourself into the shoes of average citizens who have been cannibalised for 4 years now whilst this lot have more than doubled the deficit and seek to hand out money like lollies to those who do not deserve tax relief because they are not exactly paying a lot, if indeed any at all.
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    10:43am
    Anyone earning big dollars without private health insurance has rocks in their head. Why pay extra for nothing when you can pay instead for something extra.

    I had a discussion with a health fund about my son only this week and the first question they asked was did he just want health insurance so that he didn't have to pay the extra levy? They have these real cheap polices that pay for virtually nothing but are just a cheap option than paying the extra Medicare levy.

    Negative gearing is a mugs game. Why make a loss when you can positively gear and do very nicely? Note there were changes in the budget will make negative gearing less attractive as there will a lot les write offs allowed.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    10:50am
    Surely you understand negative gearing better than that.
    Negative gearing is often a speculative play. An investor buys a house because he thinks it is going to be worth a lot more in 20 years than now, so he is prepared to make a loss with interest repayments in the short term. It has worked pretty well in the past but tell me if the game is ending. Same deal for shares. In a bull market investors clean up with a significant capital gain.
    If you can puck positively geared property without paying down a good amount on an investment then good luck to you. Not sure such investments exist today. If so please share it around.
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    11:08am
    Mick I have always positively geared everything be it property. shares or something else. I simply can't see the point of making a loss just to get a tax deduction. I still lose over 50c on the dollar.
    Idontforget
    12th May 2017
    11:43am
    Old Geezer, it does not matter if there was 28, 48 or 10048 who are able to manipulate the system. The 'Fairness' principle is that everybody should pay their fair, moral and ethical share of tax.

    How many do you think should be able to get away with it until enough is enough?

    There used to be a saying that was bandied about that we were all equal before the law but that has long since reached its used by date
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    11:48am
    So you think that lots of taxpayers resources should be tied up in making things fair. Get over it life itself is not fair.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    12:14pm
    If the game is fraudulent it needs to stop! It is fraudulent.
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    12:36pm
    Mick if it's allowed within the law it can't be fraud. Stop being so jealous of others it doesn't do you any good.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    1:48pm
    Funny, funny, funny. The crooks make the laws and so it is "legal". Next you'll be saying that theft is legal if the crooks are not caught.
    Adrianus
    13th May 2017
    10:56am
    Idontforget, it's time you forgot everything you learned about "fairness." Australia is still a place where people can have a "fair go." We look after our mates and our mates have our back.
    We can spot a shirker too.
    Anonymous
    15th May 2017
    7:02am
    No, Frank. It absolutely is NOT. The crooks make the laws to protect the crooks and nobody protects the victims of bureaucratic persecution, nor those the law unfairly discriminates against. You only have to read OG's vile comments here to understand that ''mates don't have our back''. They have the knives out, ready and keen to stab in the back at any opportunity.
    As for spotting a shirker - you THINK you can, but you have no idea, and are too lacking in empathy and compassion to investigate. So you just assist the persecution.
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    10:35am
    So we keep fleecing the rich to pay the poor. No wonder they send their money off shore.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    10:42am
    "Fleecing the rich"? Are you kidding. The rich pay accounts to avoid the real tax system average citizens cannot avoid. Tell me what PERCENTAGE of their incomes high income earners pay in tax. That is the pertinent figure. Please explain!
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    10:48am
    They pay tax according to the same tax table as everyone else.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    10:53am
    The issue is that the rich constantly bleat about how much tax they pay but when you look at the percentage it is often very very low. That is the con.
    You earn high, you pay tax. Nothing unfair about that.
    Sure high income earners pay tac according to the applicable tax rate but the issue is they pay creative accountants and lawyers to find all sorts of outs. The flavour of the month is Offshore Tax Havens....which means that the applicable rate of tax in Australia is probably NIL. Tell me that is fair and that this does anything for the country other than send it broke.
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    11:10am
    Didn't Shorten say there was only 48 of these people? That is a drop in the ocean and even if they did pay more tax it would very little difference. As for sending the country broke then we must be on a real knife edge now.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    11:54am
    But how many are on 2%, 5%, 9%, etc. The issue is that high income earners should be on 48% but few are. It's the low percentages and the ability to avoid paying the correct rate of tax including the growth rate in avoiders which is of concern. A bit like musical chairs. Only wage and salary earners will be left standing if the problems is not addressed.
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    12:05pm
    What about all the GST they pay on their million dollar accounting fees?
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    12:15pm
    I am in raptures.
    We ALL pay GST. This I must say is the tax they cannot avoid....although maybe they have figured out a way around that one too.
    Rae
    12th May 2017
    12:49pm
    Aren't those fees tax deductible?
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    12:52pm
    It doesn't matter as the government gets the GST revenue anyway.
    Anonymous
    12th May 2017
    1:42pm
    They send their money offshore anyway, OIG, since it benefits them, for the simple reason that we don't tax their dollars on the way out and the way in, as we should.

    It should be a bounden rule that if you offshore cash or jobs, you pay an exit tax on it. For those already based offshore, they pay an entry tax as their dollars come in.

    That way the international tax market will start to catch up with 'tax havens' and the abuse to which they are put.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    1:54pm
    That is a start TREBOR.
    You may recall in the past few weeks Google had a decision against them. The parent company in the US was borrowing money at 1.2% and then using it to fund the Australian arm but claiming a tax deduction for 7%. As crooked as it gets!
    The courts let Google claim 4%.....unbelievable! It should have been their actual borrowing costs and then the ATO should have hit them with a huge penalty tax to punish them for being crooked.
    The issue of the rich and their big businesses getting away with outright fraud never seems to end. You idea of an exits tax may be the way to stop the fraud but expect the rich end of town to come up with the next scheme. The problem is that there are no laws which allow the ATO to fix new cons as they arrive. Ten years down the track is NOT acceptable as this is effectively letting the crooks get away with it. Welcome to governments governing for the big end of town.
    les
    12th May 2017
    11:09am
    Can someone define for me WHAT IS A MILLIONARE, A RICH PERSON and a WEATHY PERSON
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    11:15am
    Millionaire is someone who owns a house in Sydney.

    Rich person is someone who has more than you.

    Wealthy person is someone who flaunts their wealth like a certain necklace.
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    11:20am
    Might be a help in answering your question.

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/property/the-number-of-australian-millionaires-grows-boosted-by-property-gains-20160624-gpr3ay.html

    234,000 HNWIs is not many in 25 million people. Less than 1%.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    11:56am
    Less than 1% maybe but please mention the percentage of the national income these people represent....as well as the percentage of tax they pay on their incomes. These are the only pertinent figures as they do not lie.
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    12:02pm
    Mick you will have to ask the ATO that one and I would be surprised if you get an answer.

    Beside it is none of your business how much other people pay in tax. If you pay tax then you at making money if not then you are not pulling your weight for this country.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    12:17pm
    And here you use the Turnbull sidestep. Hide the facts and escape scrutiny.
    It is everyone's business if the top are laundering money.
    The issue IS if they top are pulling their weight. You can deny all you wish but the fraudulent behaviour at the top, which they calling 'accounting', is what it is.
    Rae
    12th May 2017
    12:56pm
    If you pay tax you are making good money and it is as simple as that. If these tax avoiders are making risky speculative gambles on losing propositions to avoid making money because you pay tax on it then, in my opinion. they have rocks in their heads.

    There has to be a great deal of fraud when multi millionaires declare less than $18 200 income. Whilst driving jags and living on the harbour with the yacht at the end of the wharf. Or very dodgy tax rules and regulations.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    1:57pm
    It's the loopholes often intentionally left there and the fact that when a scam is discovered it is only ever closed when too many people are in on it. That is why the old 'Bottom of the Harbour' scheme was shut down. No other reason. So they moved onto the next scheme:
    Superannuation.
    Anonymous
    13th May 2017
    8:56am
    Only 234,000 HNW individuals in Oz, yet some idiots claim millionaires are claiming aged pensions. Seems doubtful to me that of only 234000 HNW people a lot of them would be on aged pensions.
    Adrianus
    13th May 2017
    10:24pm
    My guess is about 10,000. Their postcode would be a clue. Especially in the Balmain or Newtown area.
    Blossom
    14th May 2017
    5:30pm
    TREBOR. I hope you realise that had you gone bankrupt if the cars were registered in the company name they would have been sold for the funds to pay off creditors.

    12th May 2017
    11:20am
    Shorten talks of fairness but I fear that fairness is a concept quite new to him. His sense of fairness when he was running the AWU did not extend to the members who were paying his wages. He managed to extract multiple dollars for the AWU from employers by getting workers replaced by contractors and dropping penalty rates for others.

    Shorten is an opportunist and his reply was big on rhetoric and short on detail. His continued call for a Royal Commission is merely fluff as a Royal Commission into banking will disclose nothing of substance. Banks have been colluding for years and all attempts to prove that have failed dismally so they will be fully armed and ready for any Royal Commission with glib answers and watertight facts. His hollow claim that the government should resign if $1 is passed on cannot be proven as banks have continually played games with fees and interest since deregulation. Amy changes by the banks will be justified under "market forces".

    As regards the Medicare levy, Shorten didn't object when Gillard increased the levy but suddenly he thinks that it is a bad idea. Labor also savaged Abbott when he imposed a temporary levy for three years on high income earners but now that the levy is due to be cancelled under the original agreement, Shorten wants it to remain.

    Sure, the budget isn't everybody's cup of tea but no budget ever is and although it has been said that this budget is "Labor Lite", Shorten still wants to challenge every piece, even the ones where Labor has, in the past, promoted such a policy.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    12:00pm
    Opportunist? Come on, that is unfair. He presented the FACTS, not lies.
    Instead of plying the man we need to properly examine the issues and follow the money trail. With this government it is all about mega debt with no end in sight, taxing average citizens and giving already rich people heaps of money via tax cuts.
    You can run but you can't hide Old Man. The facts are what they are and no amount of rhetoric can change that.
    For the record Turnbull once supported Renewable energy...but now does not. No point talking about who did what many years ago. Politicians cannot even keep to their promises made a couple of months ago let alone years ago. Tony Abbott? Still fresh in everyone's mind.
    Anonymous
    12th May 2017
    12:15pm
    Thanks MICK, I was referring to his opportunism when he got the millionaire Pratt to fly him down to Beaconsfield in a charter flight so he could have his head on TV when the miners were brought to the surface. I was also including his part in the downfall of firstly Rudd and then when he changed sides, Gillard. He's like most politicians MICK, it's all selfishness.

    I am amused at the claim of playing the man, isn't that what Shorten has been doing with his personal attack on Turnbull? Calling him "Mr Harbourside Mansion" has nothing whatsoever to do with an argument against policies under Turnbull's government.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    12:21pm
    They all look after their own nest Old Man. For the record I have never called Turnbull "Mr Harbourside Mansion" as he has made his money and these are the spoils. I won't go into detail about Goldman Sachs (ex employer) or its reputation but will say my scorn is for the job Turnbull is doing and the fact that he is one of the culprits using an offshore tax shelter so please nail me down on my criticism if I am wrong rather than on statements I have not made.
    Anonymous
    12th May 2017
    12:44pm
    Whoa back there MICK. I assumed your suggestion about playing the man was in reference to comments I made about Shorten and my reply was couched in that vein. If I have inadvertently referred to your good self I submit a full apology. We don't always agree but I respect your right to air your views.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    1:59pm
    No apology necessary. I understand. We are both passionate and if I played the man then I meant to air the facts. Cheers.
    Kathleen
    12th May 2017
    11:22am
    Bill Shorten's response to the budget was excellent.
    People have not had rises to sustain a .5% extra Medicare levy. Limiting it to earners over $87000 is definitely fairer.
    It should be more about choices the government makes to fund services. They do not need to go after the workers relentlessly.
    Tax avoiders is where they should cast their eyes including millionaires and companies.
    Someone on two and half million claiming one million to have their tax affairs managed is a rort pure and simple. Many Australian companies pay no tax. It is not just the multinationals.
    The NDIS needs more funding as some people are still missing out.
    The PM looked crushed when Bill delivered his speech in parliament last night. I think he would like to be fairer not just hope we will believe it if he keeps saying it. He is powerless in his party unfortunately.
    Until everyone pays their taxes and not rely on the poorer end of society to fund health and education etc things will not change. Kudos to the wealthy who do pay taxes!
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    11:32am
    PM looked crushed...he was biting his lip to stop himself smiling more like it.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    12:02pm
    Actually Geezer the government front bench spent most of the reply looking at the floor and unable to make eye contact with the other side. Perhaps this government has resigned itself to its upcoming fate. Who knows.
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    12:07pm
    A lot can happen in 2 or 3 years so I wouldn't get too concerned about it Mick.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    12:22pm
    Such is the effect of propaganda run by your mates and rich supporters........
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    12:58pm
    Mick it is actually tough being rich as every bugger wants to have a share of it as well.

    That said I'm off for a half price lunch at the club to save a few bob.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    2:01pm
    Point taken.
    I might come down on rich people but I support their right to be rich as long as they have not reached this pinnacle through unfair and crooked means. If my comments suggest otherwise then maybe I am not specific enough.
    Charlie
    12th May 2017
    11:32am
    Labor need a divine intervention. They need to spend a lot more time in the wilderness before they see that happening.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    12:04pm
    Spoken by somebody who has no idea of what is happening in the country.
    I suspect the government needs either divine intervention or the Murdoch Press on steroids. The propaganda campaign needs to start immediately if this lot are to be saved from themselves and their greedy supporter base.
    Charlie
    12th May 2017
    12:24pm
    So what did you actually say mick?

    My falling out with Labor is about their policies on gay marriage and refugees.

    Then we have the labor greens combination where the greens party has become a platform for every radical who has a beef about something. For instance the party concerns over the great barrier reef seem to have been eclipsed by whether a woman can breastfeed in Parliament or not.

    There is too much of "me and my entitlements" coming out of labor and the greens.

    I prefer to support a "steady as she goes" liberal administration until labor get back to the political party they used to be and that's going to take quite a while.
    Rae
    12th May 2017
    1:03pm
    I just want to see the LNP floundering as the economic chaos they have allowed all collapses around them.
    Anonymous
    12th May 2017
    1:46pm
    I oppose Labor primarily over their 'equality by force' measures, when all they need do is leave it to 'market forces, as they should have done before destroying the public service via AA, although actually it was a Liberal government that installed AA and created the 'jobs for the girls' network there - look at the results to date....
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    2:12pm
    Charlie: Believe it or not but I do not vote Labor despite seeing many of their policies as being fair and being nation building whilst the coalition only has one agenda: send money to the already wealthy.

    If it makes you fell any better Plibersek and her constant raving about homosexual marriage has been getting on my nerves for a while. Shorten needs to give her the flick as her interests are in getting reelected, not the country.

    Refugees...or rather unregulated immigration: I fully agree with you here too. Unlikely Shorten is going to go back to the past given what happened and given that this is the prime reason Gillard was upon and thrown out. I did warn Swan, Gillard and a couple of others that this was going to happen but then the heads on some of these people would not have fitted through the door passage. Lesson learnt I suggest.

    There may be some crap but I think Shorten was to the point last night. Pretty hard to argue against most of what he said and the recurring theme spoke for itself. In the end the claim from Morrison of 'fairness' is what Shorten put to bed. But then would you expect anything other than blatant lies from either the current crew or the one before them. Time for the electorate to reward this lot for their gutter nastiness and blatant dishonesty. It's been a long time coming but finally dumb voters are seeing this government for what it is.

    If you have any suggestions on how to go then please air them. Re-electing the current bunch of bushwacking lying puppets owned by the big end of town is not an option. Maybe a coalition in the future when the party gets rid of the scum and governs for the country may see that change but it'll take several election defeats before that arises.
    Anonymous
    13th May 2017
    7:27pm
    I am very similar, Mick - don;t vote Labor any more than I vote LNP... for the simple reason that in my eyes their fair policies are out-weighed by their unfair ones, and as a nation and society we should not be compelled to accept a degree of wrong in order to gain a degree of right..... governments and governments-in-waiting should only be abiding by absolute fairness and even treatment (not their version of equality by any means), rather than imposing on the people to push their own barrow.

    The concept of service and of duty to the people first and foremost has become vastly over-shadowed by very stupid and self-serving ideologies, mostly imported from nations we have no wish to emulate.
    Adrianus
    13th May 2017
    10:22pm
    MICK, you vote Labor. So do you TREBOR. OK, you may vote Indy who passes on your votes to Labor.
    Charlie
    14th May 2017
    12:20pm
    The only thing I've got to add to this, is the way Labor, Greens and some dark races have stirred up the Aboriginals and got them on the path of "the world owes us" to the point where they are destroying monuments and protesting to shift public holidays that offend them and in general trying to get a compensation hand out for the way they were treated 100 years ago. Needless to say, all those involved in mistreatment of aboriginals at that time, are long dead and gone. Political correctness has also got out of hand, so that anybody who says, "stop, you are asking for too much", is immediately branded a racist.
    Many aboriginals are behaving as if the government is going to give them back heaps of land where they can do as they please and have alcoholic communities that can wander off to the nearest city and be immune from arrest when they commit misdemeanors under the summary offences act.
    What the aboriginal population have is the native title act, which is essentially a land use agreement, not land ownership. This has some benefits for the preservation of their culture but they still have to give their their children a good education and live like decent human beings according to how it is defined by white culture, not the myth about how they had it all together and the whites came and messed it up. You wont find many that will go back to wearing animal skins, sleeping in the dirt, hunting all their own food and doing without medical care.
    Rosret
    12th May 2017
    12:32pm
    Since the political twins have very similar policies I think Shorten has addressed a few of the young earners concerns i.e. paying back HECS sooner, upping the UNI fees and increasing the medicare levy. It is a sector of the community who are really financially stressed in the housing market - it all adds up if you're living on the edge. If a young person has bought a home already they won't benefit from a tax relief of the $30K put in super.
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    12:34pm
    I did the numbers on that $30K in super and I can't see any benefits in it all.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    2:13pm
    There are none Geezer. It's a total con. Which shell is the marble under...........
    Anonymous
    13th May 2017
    7:28pm
    The moves of 'cunning' politicians are as clear as glass to any who choose to see... they must all imagine we were born yesterday in Cambra...
    inextratime
    12th May 2017
    12:42pm
    I'm with you Mick. The amount of tax paid relative to income is a scandal. PAYG have no option as the tax is deducted from their pay, but many businesses have a multitude of ways of minimising their tax. Example go on holiday. Arrange for a couple of meetings, 10 days apart. Claim the whole trip as 'travel' . Company cars, include all the family's, petrol, servicing, leases .. need I go on ?
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    12:56pm
    I hope you don't get audited as you can't claim the whole trip as "travel expenses". You also have to allow for a certain amount of personal expenses with cars etc as if you don't you will get fined. You have to prove that expenditure was part of doing business and not of a personal nature. It is not near as easy as you make out.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    2:15pm
    Do you really suggest that accountants do not work the system so that it is 'legit' Geezer, whatever that word means these days?
    Old Geezer
    12th May 2017
    3:04pm
    Mick your ordinary run of the mill accountant actually operates well within the law because they simply don't what to spend the time arguing the law with the ATO. That cost them time better spent doing more paid work.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    8:46pm
    Creative accounts teamed up with lawyers make a formidable team. The real problem is that governments well understand the rorts but choose not to end them. The current batch not only understand that multinationals avoid paying tax but are a part of the problem with our PM having an offshore tax shelter. This is not because he is a kind soul of any sort and I await the ATO doing the sums and publishing the tax avoided. I suggest it would be substantial...but we will never know because the laws have been changed so that our PM and others can now be invisible to scrutiny. That is so wrong.
    Adrianus
    13th May 2017
    10:39am
    inextratime, if you want to reduce tax deductible expenditure then start with the public service. It is out of control. Part of Rudd's stimulus plan saw $billions flow to the public service. And not from the ATO.
    Anonymous
    13th May 2017
    7:29pm
    I had a business - ran two commercial vehicles - also got the Jag and the Daimler repairs etc off tax...
    Blossom
    14th May 2017
    5:27pm
    Those claims for deductions only reduce the tax payable by a %. You don't get the total back. Thar includes uniforms with company logos stitched into them - not just attached.
    Adrianus
    12th May 2017
    12:56pm
    Bill Shorten and his union mates' class warfare is going nowhere. It's time to get off that dead horse and bury it. The stench is unbearable.
    It's time for the unions and labor to acknowledge that Australia is now more sophisticated and more educated. We can spot a windsock even from upwind.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    2:17pm
    Ha, ha, ha. Oh Frank you are so funny.
    Tony Abbott said "we do not want class warfare in this country" and then did exactly that. Now you are accusing Shorten of "class warfare" after the Turnbull ratbags have gotten tax cuts for the rich through whilst paying for it with new taxes from the rest of us including sucking tens of millions out of basic services which average people depend on.
    Kathleen
    12th May 2017
    1:01pm
    OG, I thought that was odd that you would choose to comment on my take on PM's body language and none of the other comments I made. I guess that means you agreed with them. PM was not smiling or happy. He did bounce back today but he was certainly not happy last night. I actually watched it. Did you?
    Slimmer Cat
    12th May 2017
    1:50pm
    Yes GrandmaKathleen22 I did watch the speech. I also observed Chloe Shorten watching her husband with a heavy gold necklace around her neck. THEN IT WAS GONE. Must have looked a bit too expensive for a Labor minister's wife.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    2:18pm
    Trivia. I wonder how many $100 notes Turnbull had in his wallet. Who cares!
    Kathleen
    12th May 2017
    8:23pm
    Slimmer Cat, Chloe was not in parliament last night unless she was in the gallery and there were no close ups on any of the people in the time that the response to the budget was being presented by Bill.
    A heavy gold necklace is unlikely to be solid gold as it would be too heavy. News presenters and others wear heavy gold necklaces. Something smaller with a diamond would be far more expensive.
    My comment about the body language of the PM is relevant whereas the wives of the politicians and what they are wearing is irrelevant.
    Again, why refer to this and not one of my other comments which would at least be more interesting to debate.
    Kathleen
    13th May 2017
    12:35am
    Slimmercat.....the necklace cost $25. How dare people stir like this! I never saw it and I watched very intently. Apparently some grubby liberal politicians contacted the media trying to make trouble for the Shortens. Grubby politics!
    Adrianus
    13th May 2017
    8:18am
    Slimmer Cat, you make a very good point. Labor pins their strategy on class warfare and the hatred of the "haves" by the "have nots."
    Bill Shorten can afford to wear a well tailored suit and recently spent a fortune on new clothes. So why does he insist on looking like a frumpy down and outer?
    Adrianus
    13th May 2017
    10:34am
    I may add. It costs extra to get a tailor to make a suit which gives the appearance of a humble union boss who can say,
    "we are you, you are us."
    Anonymous
    13th May 2017
    7:32pm
    .. in breaking news - a new low has been reached in discussion of politics and politicians...
    Not a Bludger
    12th May 2017
    1:01pm
    Shorten and fairness are quite mutually exclusive.

    Shorten is just another ex-union thug boss who dudded his own members for coin and escaped ICAC by the skin of his teeth.

    How can you folks believe anything that he says?
    Adrianus
    12th May 2017
    1:07pm
    To be fair, small business doesn't have the capacity to be as fair as big business. That's why the unions and labor are more fair in their dealings with big business. And big business is more fair to them. Not hard to understand why we have duopolies in the supermarkets.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    2:21pm
    It takes a certain sort of person to call white black. So you then look for tags when Shorten has not been a union representative for zonks.
    The question is how can anybody believe ANYTHING that government ministers say given the track records of lies and deceit over the past 4 years?
    You must be quite sick to make a comment like this Bludger. Nobody in their right mind could make such a call unless in bed with the crooks. Oh yes!
    Adrianus
    12th May 2017
    5:05pm
    Not A Bludger, Shorten was getting a little hot under the collar during the TURC. Then we were worried when he said if elected he would run the country like a union. lol
    Adrianus
    12th May 2017
    5:09pm
    MICk, you don't think you're being a little harsh on Bludger? Your post is up to your usual standard of personal attacks and untruths. You shouldn't be allowed to post that garbage mate. lol
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    8:38pm
    Frank: "We" means you and the government? Pretty clear who you are posting for. Gun for sale eh.
    Adrianus
    13th May 2017
    10:29am
    No MICK, "we" means clear thinking loyal Australians. Those who cant be bought and sold.
    The Black Fox
    12th May 2017
    1:02pm
    Hang in there Mick. The budget reply speech must have hit the nail on the head or we wouldn't be seeing the LNP stooges so intent on lambasting it (or you on this site). Where is their (rightful) indignation about the $65.4 billion (at this stage) tax cut to company tax, much of which will end up in the hands of overseas shareholders? Many of your critics seem to miss the point that fairness, besides being a concept about allowing everyone a certain amount of dignity, can have economic benefits too. Bleeding less wealthy Australians cuts their spending power while increasing their long term disenchantment and leads to a more divided and dangerous environment. No wonder, as an attempt to offset the Australian public's increasing understanding of the trend towards greater polarisation of wealth, the LPN want to change media ownership rules to allow the likes of Murdoch and the far right greater power to pull the wool over the eyes of the gullible voter.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    2:28pm
    Yeah. Just reading Bludger's comment above pretty well tells the story.
    It is pretty important to educate those who still believe the LNP is anything other than what it really is. I figure if you tell the truth by airing the facts as opposed to BS then eventually people see the light despite the trolls working the site to confuse voters by misrepresenting the truth.
    The media? Yeah is one which needs to be fixed. The problem is that the media is either owned by rich barons like Murdoch or controlled by CEOS and their Boards who are little more than rich folk controlling the game as well. I live in hope with that one.
    Thanks for the kind words. I don't get a lot of those because I attack the crookedness of the game and seek to restore proper government rather than vested interests running the country down for their own gains. Cheers.
    sirrom
    12th May 2017
    1:02pm
    Iwas not surprised by how boring Shorten was with his budget reply - hardly any variation of tone- except when he says we will not support !ANYTHING because he can- could have had the shortest reply ever speech -4 words - just say - we won't support anything- Labor and particularly Shorten doesn't care about the country - only their own image. So negative and boring
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    2:29pm
    I agree with Shorten's audio impression but his delivery was actually quite powerful because he did not drone on and he nailed the important facts. That's why the government front bench had their miserable heads down for almost the entire speech.
    Incognito
    13th May 2017
    6:03pm
    I agree with you Mick, I thought his speech was spot on. Was positive and not boring at all. I hate the they way some pollie's dramatize everything and it was refreshing to hear the way Shortie spoke. How rude of the COAL- ition to never look up and make out they were not listening.

    12th May 2017
    1:22pm
    Because the Coaltion has moved so far to the left where can Shortens Old Labor go .
    Yep he goes there reintroduces Class warfare and even higher tax and spend .
    When will we address that because of middle class welfare 60 per cent pay no net tax .
    And our p ensionets live in poverty .
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    2:34pm
    Liberal Party HQ must have come up with the "class warfare" bit at the meeting last night Brocky.
    The truth is that Class Warfare" has been on since Abbott got in. He said he didn't want and then promptly started exactly that. Turnbull has continued this and the $65 billion tax cuts for the top end are the delivery of CLASS WARFARE.

    60% of middle class "pay no tax"? BS. You made that up.

    "Our pensioners live in poverty"? Yes. Forced on them by the last 2 right wing governments. But how else can you give the top end money unless you get it from somebody: retirees and the bottom half of society. THAT IS CLASS WARFARE mate!
    Anonymous
    12th May 2017
    2:46pm
    Mick I just ask you to remember that every dollar the government. Spends comes out of your pocket .Therefore we should look at every government programme and say is this the best way to spend our dollar .
    Anonymous
    12th May 2017
    3:19pm
    I didn't say 60 per cent of the middle class pay no tax .
    I said 60 per cent pay no nett tax after welfare payments .
    Mainly family tax credits which along with other payments is referred to as middle class welfare.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    8:41pm
    Fair comment but not sure if you are on the money here. Of course any government only spends what it takes from us but that is fair if society gets some value out of the spending. This lot have run up HUGE debt and we have zilch. Sort of gets me irritated when they claim they are the best thing since sliced cheese when in reality they are a cancer bringing the nation to its knees.
    Life experience
    12th May 2017
    1:54pm
    Good on you Shorten. You are right.
    Lower income tax payers are struggling already. The increase in Medicare is cruel.
    I am a liberal supporter generally but this budget does hit the people that can least afford it. Not happy. I don't like that labour is attached to unions and that's why I've struggled to vote labour.
    Anonymous
    12th May 2017
    2:22pm
    It's time we cut the middle class welfare introduced by Howard .

    Howard reduced those paying nett tax by family tax credits .

    We now support household earning up to 140,000 a year

    Whist our pensioners are expected to survive on 20,000 a year ,
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    2:37pm
    Let's not bring Howard into this. Remember the Baby Bonus????

    The way forward is for our governments, no matter from which side of politics, to COLLECT RIGHTFUL TAXES. No exemptions for the rich. No schemes allowed. No offshore tax shelters permitted.

    Let's get serious. Then we have enough money to not take away pensions with asset tests or get people to sell their family homes to pay for their own pensions. That is just perverse and the sign of a government on the way out.
    Anonymous
    12th May 2017
    4:06pm
    You obviously agree with the tax and spend policies of both parties . The results of this idea are below in France .

    My native France is an economic mess. It might sound wonderful to some that the French are "entitled" to health care, can retire at age 60, have to work for only 35 hours a week and get "free" education. But this spending comes at a cost; 57 percent of the French economy (as measured by the gross domestic product) is spent every year by the government.

    To pay for it, you need more taxes — and not just high marginal income tax rates and payroll taxes. The French also pay a 20 percent value-added tax, pay a 33.33 percent corporate income tax and have hundreds of other punitive revenue-generating measures.

    French policymakers have responded to the resulting sluggish economic growth and persistently high unemployment by making the market for labor horrifyingly inflexible and insulating workers from the competitive market forces that generate long-term prosperity.

    This results in stubbornly high unemployment rates, mounting debt and the exodus of intelligent French brains to other countries with brighter economic prospects.

    https://www.thenewamerican.com/reviews/opinion/item/26005-is-the-us-on-the-path-to-french-style-economic-sclerosis

    Shared via the Google app


    Sent from my iPad
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    5:06pm
    Interesting post.
    We have just returned from France. The people did seem to be poor and it showed on their faces but they were a very kind and thoughtful people. We really appreciated that.
    We saw no evidence of a VAT but maybe it was not shown on the dockets or I missed it.
    I did note a candidate at the recently completed election stating he would bring in a 100% wealth tax after a certain level of income was reached. Would like to see that here as those who believe $10 million is fair whilst complaining that their workers earn too much are sick puppies who need to be brought back to earth.
    The french seem not to worry too much about bucket loads of money and will buy french even when the prices are multiples of imported goods. We saw that with food where they preferred to buy from street stall markets rather than supermarkets and noticed that the dirt cheap retailer Lidel was not well patronised. Hard to understand. Maybe they are more patriotic than us. Who knows.
    The problem with your post Brocky is that you are advocating the bad system we have here where the rich can own everything. When you look at where housing is going + the attempt to get retirees to 'spend' the equity in their family home it is clear that our system of greed is more like America's failed model and that ordinary citizens will become slaves under such a system.
    I do not support the winner take all concept. Sorry. That is both unAustralians and plain wrong because the strong will always overpower the weak....and that is no way to run a country. Any country. If you think so you need to look at what happened to both Marie Antoinette and the rich of the time. The French sorted that one out.
    Blossom
    14th May 2017
    5:22pm
    MICK, I reckon the baby bonus should be income tested.
    There are some who genuinely benefit from it such as those who unfortunately become widows.There has been reported at the Expectant Dad has died as the result an accident or terminal illness; Expectant Mums who the father does a runner and can't be found or does all cash jobs and declares no legal "income" for child support to be deducted from.

    12th May 2017
    2:36pm
    All the above arguments are about which entrenched interests should get a bigger share of the pie .
    No one discusses about taxpayers retaining a bigger share of their income to decide for themselves how they will spend it.
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    2:54pm
    You miss the point. Tax is not pocketed by our pollies. It goes towards roads, schools, hospitals, police and hundreds of other things we all need to run a society.
    Governments have to collect tax. This is not a luxury. Then we need to look at who pays what and the greedy rich scream murder because they are expected to contribute a certain PERCENTAGE of their very high income. Poor little princesses. Of course they believe the poorest amongst us should pay the most. Same as Americans believe that health care for the poor has nothing to do with them. This is unabated greed in operation and those who feel that way are bastards who want a better lifestyle whilst their fellow citizens suffer in a well to do society.
    I hope that helps you to understand that which will come hard for you Brocky.
    Anonymous
    12th May 2017
    3:11pm
    So you agree that income support for those on 140,000 a year . Or free GP visits for millionaires is a good way for the govt to spend the money you give them .
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    5:09pm
    Never said that and I doubt whether that actually occurs.
    Bring in proper government and you will get such things sorted out if indeed they exist. Turn a blind eye so as not to upset voters and the festring sore remains.
    Adrianus
    12th May 2017
    5:14pm
    No Brocky, its not. MICK will agree, but I don't think it is value for money. Those welfare handouts were meant to buy votes.
    Anonymous
    12th May 2017
    5:31pm
    You know Frank here we are on a site for seniors with thousands of years of accumslayed wisdom and yet Mick can make statements as above .
    Adrianus
    12th May 2017
    7:49pm
    Brocky, MICK is either sick or a hard line communist. Not much of what he writes on here makes a lot of sense.
    Rodent
    12th May 2017
    3:17pm
    Did you hear the story abut the 0.06% Bank Fee/Tax Levey, if media reports are correct its not that % at all its actually a Flat $1.5 Bil per bank (5) per year for ALL years into the future, not just the 4 years in the budget, and they still don't know who its worked out and on what it applies to. Hope everybody reads the Draft Legislation VERY closely next week
    Anonymous
    12th May 2017
    3:22pm
    As the AustralianBanks make a 15 per cent return on capital double what Foreign banks make and have a State guarantee . The government would be well within its rights to legislate against any recovery.
    Wstaton
    13th May 2017
    6:02pm
    I think to sort the banks out the government should rescind the bank garauntee and give it to the smaller banks. Yep! That would sort them out.
    Adrianus
    13th May 2017
    6:44pm
    Wstaton, Don't know what that would achieve? I imagine Keatings 4 pillar policy will be blown out of the water?

    12th May 2017
    4:02pm
    Good on you Mick - talking utter drivel again - never fails to amuse me! Shorten rubbishing the government over alleged short changing the NDIS and schools - where does this bloke get off? He must have access to the same money tree that Daniel Andrews has in Victoria. Daniel is the only premier in Australia who can spend over a billion dollars, and get absolutely nothing for it. Now how fair and socially just is that? Well, I suppose Bill can resurrect the pink batts scheme and those very useful school halls - they will really restore the fortunes of our younger generation!1
    MICK
    12th May 2017
    5:22pm
    FYI the Current government has in 4 short years MORE THAN DOUBLED our debt. The last year before Gillard left office the debt was reducing. No Morrison wobbly figures here.

    If you want to talk crap then do so but the facts are that the coalition governments of Abbott and Turnbull have been to politics what the Titanic was to sailing and they have been spending like a drunk sailor on shore leave with noting to show for it. Add to that the obvious fact that the media is ignoring the debt bubble and you get what you get.

    People like you need to stop posting anti Labor propaganda as you are clearly just trying to fool and confuse those who do not know any better. I have had my eyes opened and now live this stuff.

    To help you out here are the official debt figures. Please choke on them:

    http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/news-federal-budget/2017/05/10/eighty-billion-dollars-bad-debt/?utm_source=Responsys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20170511_TND

    The first entry in the table is the last Labor year and the rest are from.......Abbott and son of Abbott. I strongly suggest you find out the facts before you post such a pile of utter tripe again. Apologies for the serve but you need to pull your head i.

    Cheers.
    Rae
    12th May 2017
    7:01pm
    Our local High School had their science block moved out of the 20th century into today which was a very good use of the funds.

    Sure there were excessive prices . They should have let local Principals bargain with the locals doing the job.
    Bureaucrats always waste taxpayers money.

    The local primary schools had their 60 year old canteen, originally the wash shed for milk storage back when milk was distributed, rebuilt. That was definitely not a waste. What was a waste was all that money Howard raked in and squandered.

    12th May 2017
    7:13pm
    the first comment on this article comes from our great masked labor bootlicker mickey, this labor's doormat and as a true labor sheep he has to do so unless he wants to loose his labor membership, he has to praise his leader, shorten, even for that man's ugly anti Australian class welfare, highlighted by the rejection of everybody paying for our unfortunate disabled, through the national disability insurance scheme, brought in by labor, julia gillard, as usual for the labor party no funds were allocated at the time, yet now labor screams about a half a percent increase in medicare payments to pay for this absolutely needed service, surely it won't break the bank, just think you or your offspring might be the next name on that list, and as for engaging in class welfare, nothing beat labor in that respect, micky obviously did not notice the insult to shorten's wife who had to discreetly remove her gold coloured necklace during his speech, just in case somebody might have accused shortie of being a millionaire, which he is anyhow or how shortie short changed his members while being an union official just so his wife could afford to buy this necklace, but then again being micky the labor zealot, he belongs to those who don't see, don't hear and don't speak up unless ordered by his labor masters!
    Anonymous
    13th May 2017
    7:40pm
    Control your tongue and address the issues - or you may well lose your tongue here.

    Just saying... your rhetoric is not compelling in its majestic isolation..
    Anonymous
    13th May 2017
    7:46pm
    That sort of thuggish threatening is typical of the hard left ,
    And what the unions including Shorten were found guilty of in the Royal Commussion .
    And why 90 per cent of workers choose not to join the thugs .
    Liverpool Anne
    12th May 2017
    9:16pm
    It is an absolute joy reading the comments that come on this site. I am not stupid, a bit financial savvy, but I have learn a hell of a lot about politics from the comment over the last few months. Thank you all, your comments are far more enlightening, and giving me a better insight into politics than any pollie could do.
    Incognito
    13th May 2017
    6:12pm
    Be careful in what you believe, some of it is not true.

    13th May 2017
    9:15am
    I am stunned at the further evidence in the 2017 budget of the utter STUPIDITY and GROSS INCOMPETENCE of the LNP - especially Morrison and Turnbull. First, they suggest it's going to help the housing market to allow retirees to downsize and put $300,000 into super, except they ignore the fact that putting $300,000 into super REDUCES the income of pensioners, so only the very well off self-funded can possibly gain, which means only expensive houses will be available for sale - houses far to costly for struggling would-be home buyers to afford.
    Next, they suggest that it will help people raise a home deposit to be allowed to take money out of their super account, but ONLY if they've made $30K voluntary contributions each year. Well, anyone who can afford a $30K voluntary contribution in one year ought to be able to afford a house deposit, and in any case could have just saved that money toward their house purchase.
    Next, we note that lower income earners will pay higher Medicare levies, imposing higher taxes on anyone earning $21,000 a year up to average wages while giving tax cuts to very high income earners.
    And the cost of those ridiculous tax cuts for greedy companies has soared up to $65 billion - apparently an affordable cost despite the debt having skyrocketed and the claim, not so long ago, that it was essential that we change the pension assets test because the $3.5 billion claimed saving was imperative to reduce debt. So having slashed the incomes of 92,000 retirees, we can now afford to gift nearly 19 times the claimed savings to wealthy corporations and tax-dodging businesses.
    And then of course we have the biggest tax increase - a tax on banks that will either be paid by customers (read: everyone) or by shareholders (read: nearly every worker in the nation because super funds are all invested in banks).
    Of course the government is not now claiming a focus on debt reduction, but rather peddling the sick claim that debt is only bad when it arises from looking after those who have been disenfranchised by an unfair society or have suffered accidental injury, severe sickness, or major crisis or trauma.
    Still claiming to be a ''low tax government'' though, despite implementing major tax increases, most of which were disguised as a ''fair hit'' on ''wealthy banks'' (no mention of the fact that the people will pay the tax!) and prolifically lied about, as is this government's habit.
    All the opportunities for spending reductions - like cutting welfare to families on over $150,000 a year; addressing multinational tax avoidance; addressing unfair negative gearing and CGT benefits; and addressing the loopholes that are being exploited by companies and the wealthy. But none of these opportunities were considered. Much easier to slug the poor yet again!
    Anonymous
    13th May 2017
    9:34am
    It really doesn't matter what was done in the budget .
    Rusted on Labor party supporters would complain .
    I think supporters of parties come hell or high water are thinking back to their allegiances of their youth .
    Both major parties have changed .
    The Labor party is no longer that of Hawk Keating who tackled some real issues and set Australia up for the longest period of expansion . The Liberal party is no longer that of Howard / Costello . It is no different than the current labor party .Australia does not have a centre right govt like the UK that had delivered prosperity .
    We are going down the road of France .

    13th May 2017
    12:00pm
    In 1929, the Depression came. All the married men were kept on at Pa’s work, but he was put off because he was single. When Pa came back home he did any work he could. He did plumbing for the council, he cut firewood, he cut eucalyptus leaves to make oil, he dug trenches with a pick and shovel, he laid water pipes from Avoca to the railway station, and he hunted rabbits and sold them. Each week, his wages kept the family alive.

    Were these the good old days? No, but today things have gone too far the other way. Now this country embarrasses me; I find myself slowly backing away.

    Last week, a friend of mine divulged some financial information on a mutual acquaintance. This man is from an extremely wealthy family. He lives in a grand home at no cost, which is owned by their family trust. His wife doesn’t work; they have two very nice cars, owned by the family business. He is employed in that business, and he admitted his salary is kept low, at exactly the right amount, so he can receive tens of thousands a year in family payments, childcare subsidies and other financial assistance for his six children.

    This is what Australia has come to. The welfare state is so entrenched, our entitlement mentality so prevalent, and our system so easy to rort that even the rich connive to get their snouts in the trough.

    The budget will be popular. It is designed for the majority, the 60 per cent of households that live off the 40 per cent that pay; those who have bought the line that someone else can be taxed to pay for things they think they need. In our society, those who vote for a living now outnumber those who work for it. This is our biggest problem and it appears unfixable. This budget is proof of that.

    Disappointed Coalition types are calling the government Labor-lite, with good reason, although I prefer to think of it as posh Labor, or Labor with pearls. Yes, this is a Labor budget, designed to cater to the infantile demands of a socialist country. Australia, if the shoe fits, then wear it.
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/grace-collier/posh-labor-caters-to-the-demands-of-a-socialist-nation/news-story/5a0e8eea3be15a3937f2a19ca0b2b14e

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    Adrianus
    13th May 2017
    4:17pm
    Great post Brocky!
    I think many people may not realise the magnitude of the fiscal and monetary problems we face.
    The federal Government's welfare bill is $165b which is around 35% of the budget. This expenditure has grown 3% of the budget during the last decade. If the goal is to cap it at 35% then a small increase in welfare will only be possible if tax revenue increases by double that amount.
    Anonymous
    15th May 2017
    7:14am
    But the LNP keeps attacking the genuinely hard up and the deserving strugglers, not the rich manipulators and cheats. That's where the problem lies. They will ramble on about the uneducated, unskilled, underprivileged guy who refuses a job offer because he knows he can't do the job, or who takes drugs out of desperation, but they do nothing about this rich guy who uses a family trust and keeps his declared income low to claim welfare. They persecute retirees who struggled to save a modest nest-egg they hoped would buy them some comfort in their old age, but they give whopping big tax cuts to corporations that aren't paying anyway, but a finding loopholes to dodge all their obligations.
    It's easy to double the tax revenue. Just TAX THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD TO PAY.
    Incognito
    13th May 2017
    6:23pm
    After reading all the posts here I am still confused why Shorten would not make a good leader of this country. Everything he said in his speech was spot on. We need to stop the multi-national companies avoidance of tax payments whilst they are reaping our land of resources. Why are we giving them handouts? People complain about welfare handouts yet if we don't feed the poor what else will they do? Steal and rob everyone? which some are already doing to supplement their measly income which mostly goes on rent to keep those who can afford investment getting richer. No there are not enough jobs for everyone, and until there is no one should be saying 'lazy bludgers should work'. 10 people apply for each job, which means 9 will not have a job.
    Adrianus
    13th May 2017
    6:42pm
    "We need to stop the multi-national companies avoidance of tax payments whilst they are reaping our land of resources.".... What did Shorten and his mates do about this when they were in government. And before you say Shorten wasn't leader, I will say YES he was. Rudd and Gillard were owned by the unions.

    "Why are we giving them handouts?"
    Because they need it to survive in a very competitive global environment.

    musicveg, what we need you to do is look at your glass and say 'golly, its half full.'

    Very strange outlook you have vegi.
    You complain about people being unemployed, but you don't want employers to get to a position where they can employ more workers?
    Anonymous
    13th May 2017
    7:17pm
    We are not giving companies handouts . That is something Labor does to buy jobs but it never works .
    We charge our companies one of the highest tax rates in the world and then charge royalties and put a tax on jobs .
    Parliment including labor have passed a 2 per cent drop to small companies our biggest employers .
    It is proposed some time in the future to lower the large companies to bein line with the small ones ,?
    In the meantime France has a rate of 33 UK 17 . Uk is attracting the foreign investment and has a jobless rate of 4 France 10 .
    Anonymous
    13th May 2017
    7:46pm
    It isn't a game of painting either party blacker than the other, Frank - boot one of them up the ass and the other will get the message - so let's drain the pus from the sore we have now, and we'll get back to the other one when it's their turn..

    The entire structure of 'investment' and 'resource management' has been mis-handled from day one, for one reason and one only - it profits a few 'insiders' to do it the way it is being done - which is NOT to the benefit of this nation and its people.
    Anonymous
    13th May 2017
    8:05pm
    Do you think Socialism works better than Capitilsm .

    Or our They too long a words for you .
    Anonymous
    13th May 2017
    8:21pm
    Frank wasn't there a film called " Billy Liar"
    PAYEdmydues
    13th May 2017
    11:05pm
    There is huge amount of self indulgent drivel in the comments herein.
    I've scanned a few but what a waste of time. Who cares what you strange people think. Missed out in life, blame everyone else. Good luck to you.
    Blossom
    14th May 2017
    5:12pm
    Does Company Tax have a tax free threshhold? A lot of SMALL family businesses are really struggling. SA is the highest taxed State in Aust. Quite a few businesses are transferring interstate. A few are having a couple of sales staff or are using agencies. A lot of small businesses are being sold (some to overseas owned companies) or closing. Some businesses got a tax reduction in one way and another increased more than the reduction was.
    Adrianus
    15th May 2017
    8:43am
    You're right Blossom, there is no tax free threshold for companies. The SA government is stupid if it thinks economic success lies in making life hard for small businesses.
    Taxes will increase for sure in a couple of years when those 1.1m batteries need replacing.
    Shetso1
    15th May 2017
    11:52am
    Will be interesting to watch how things unfold with Macron in France given the major parties were sidelined for a type of centrist view devoid of extremism - a sort of hoping to tease out and work with the best of the middle left and middle right....
    Anonymous
    15th May 2017
    12:15pm
    Hi Shetso , Although Macron is the ex finance minister in the current Socialist government he wants to implement some pretty Thatcher type policies .
    I think there will be tong resistance from the Unions .


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