Fair Work Commission announces Sunday pay cuts

The cuts to Sunday penalty rates will hit retail workers hardest.

Fair Work Commission announces Sunday pay cuts

Yesterday, the Fair Work Commission announced that it would slash Sunday penalty rates the retail, hospitality, fast food and pharmacy sectors. Do you think it’s fair?

After spending 39 days hearing evidence from 143 witnesses and receiving 5900 submissions, the Commission decided that Sunday rates would be a thing of the past.

Rates for retail, fast food and some hospitality industries will be cut by around 25 to 50 per cent, hitting full-time workers the hardest.

Business groups have welcomed the cuts, with major retailers such as JB Hi-Fi and Myer among the most to benefit from the cuts.

Full-time retail workers will see their Sunday pay rates cut from double time to time-and-a-half, while casual retail workers will have their rates reduced from double time to time-and-three-quarters.

Hospitality workers will have their rates cut from 175 per cent to 150 per cent, and fast-food workers will also receive a 25 per cent cut, from time-and-a-half to time-and-a-quarter. Casual hospitality workers’ pay will not change.

Sunday rates for restaurant workers and licensed clubs will remain unchanged.

Pharmacy employees who work between 7am and 9pm will cop a 50 per cent cut, from double time to time-and-a-half, with casual pharmacy workers receiving 25 per cent off their Sunday pay rate.

Most of these pay cuts begin in July 2017, with some phased in over time.

What do you think of the Sunday pay cuts? How does this affect the weekend worker? Will you be affected by the pay cuts?

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    COMMENTS

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    dweezy2176
    24th Feb 2017
    8:45am
    No doubt, there will be lively debate in the Senate today when Ian MacDonald rises to defend “Sunday penalty rates” following on from his outbursts over the loss of the “gold pass” for MPs and his outrage at the removal of this age-old entitlement for those who put in “long hours in underpaid jobs”.

    Expect Senator MacDonald to hit full throttle as he vents his spleen at Fair Work Australia for removing a basic right, after all he won't be voicing concern for himself but for the hundreds of thousands of workers who have no say in this money grubbing decision..........!
    Kaz
    24th Feb 2017
    10:45am
    It's disgusting and I note those who support it keep trying to justify it by citing trickle down RUBBISH. There will not be more jobs b cause if it. How much more blatant can this Govt be about their disdain for workers? Their salary is higher to account for the longer hours they may work but these workers are paid by the hour and hours are not guaranteed. I want just one of those pollies to work in a cafe on a Sunday without a fat bank account and tell me how much it's worth. Customers are not always nice and neither are both sees, they can't even keep a tip to themselves anymore.
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    11:06am
    Where was your faux outrage when Labor struck those low pay deals with Woolies and Coles?
    Why shouldn't small business pay the same rates??
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    11:08am
    Trickle down:-

    http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzMgcQ7IUAAagwF.jpg
    Wstaton
    24th Feb 2017
    1:21pm
    I find it amazing that someone tries to justify this by pointing out others have done some nasties as well.
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    2:46pm
    Wstaton, not just some. 80% of these workers are already on the lower rates. So this adjustment only effects 20% of those workers.
    Rae
    25th Feb 2017
    10:52am
    Now if everyone else worked a few hours more for the same amount of money we could really fix this economy couldn't we.

    Do away with all those tedious waiting lists and backlogs, build modern infrastructure on time and budget, pass a bit of legislation, tidy up all those Senate inquiries, catch up those struggling students. The list goes on and on.

    Yes allowing hours of business to be extended everywhere for the same cost would be brilliant.

    As Frank argued another wrong is justification for the first wrong. That is what the commission said isn't it.

    Non compliance earns a reward. Who'd have thunked it.

    Now where can I be non compliant and rewarded by legislative changes I wonder?

    Or do I have to have a union deal to blame before I put the boot in.
    Adrianus
    25th Feb 2017
    11:08am
    Rae, you would fit in quite well at the ATO where they are whinging about working an extra 9 minutes per day to bring them into line with all other departments. Tell me more about what EQUALITY is again?
    Anonymous
    25th Feb 2017
    1:40pm
    ''Now where can I be non compliant and rewarded by legislative changes I wonder?''
    Those non-compliant with Centrelink rules seem to win rewards - sometimes only short term, but often they get away with it permanently. What irks me is that the rules are so unfair to anyone who is honest. It kind of invites non-compliance, or at least manipulation.
    plodder
    24th Feb 2017
    8:58am
    oh well. shorten appointed the commissioner and started the ball rolling. now he is bleating. what does he really stand for? blow hard rhetoric?
    we want third world prices for ourselves so our workers have to enter third world conditions that process is just starting and has a long way to go.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    10:10am
    Does it matter? Shorten hasn't held the reins yet....... we've had the Tony and Joey Show, then The Turner and Hooch Show since then with Tony doing acrobatics in the background in a duo with Peta.....

    Doesn't matter who's responsible - they all are.....
    Sundays
    24th Feb 2017
    11:31am
    Regardless, cutting the wages of some of the lowest paid workers is reprehensible. For many it's the penalty rates which give them a liveable wage!
    Wstaton
    24th Feb 2017
    1:25pm
    isn't fair work and earnings reduction a bit of a oxymoron.
    Poppa Bear
    24th Feb 2017
    9:19am
    Coles, Woolies, Maccas, and a host of other giants, have been shortchanging their workers on penalty rates for several years, all with the union's help and sanction. The weak Fair Work Ombudsman told Coles to pay the correct rates as it was underpaying employees. Coles said "get stuffed, we are happy with what we pay", and so the underpayment goes on.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    10:12am
    Been going on since the start of Hawkie's Government of Wrecking A Silly Nation.... 'national reconcilation' meant no balls for the Union movement and their being securely tied to the coat-tails of a new form of Labor (the Labour after they took U out of it) Party designed in the coffee shops of the nation's universities and quadrangles over a cheese bun and latte` while copping free education.
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    11:09am
    Agree Trebor, they are the big danger.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    12:20pm
    Both 'sides' are in the same boat.. I just fire both ways. they move from private school to university (free then) and then into politics - no wonder they're estranged from the Australian people and think they know it all. They think the ball's chat they sling across the room at one another like some middle school debate with vitriol added is the real world...
    Patriot
    24th Feb 2017
    1:00pm
    TREBOR,

    Disagree with you on ONE small detail.
    They are continuously - by the Global Shadow Government - "Told & Convinced" that they DO NOT KNOW it all!!!
    And - as they follow THEIR (rather than OURS) orders, they must be convinced that they are "Utterly STUPID and unable to act independently"!!!

    If they show some resemblance to act in compassionate & considerate mode, they are either "Put in their place" or, like JFK & Prime Minister Holt, drowned or poisoned via some lead in the right place.

    Initiative - generally - is NOT tolerated once you're in Government.
    That is, with the exception of Pauline & a few others who "Will be dealt with"!!!
    That's why Pauline, whilst finally proven innocent & released from jail, still has not been paid her PAST Election Allowance (Quite some years ago now) and not be compensated for the time spent in jail.

    YOU Speak up - there are penalties to be paid.

    Ve ave our vays to deal with YOU!!!
    Wstaton
    24th Feb 2017
    1:34pm
    A huge conglomerate can say get stuffed to the Fair work Commissions but the poor workers can't say to the fair Work Commission" get stuffed. This is what you call inequality.

    How is it that this commission get to do what it has done to the poor HARD working people who are trying to earn enough to live. Yet is powerless against the conglomerates.

    Incidentally the commissioners are appointed by the governor general on the advice of the government of the day.

    Wink Wink say no more.
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    10:15pm
    Its called fair work for a reason. Geez???
    TREBOR
    26th Feb 2017
    1:59am
    .. because it's fair to the boss but not to the worker...

    Fixed for you - no charge.
    Adrianus
    26th Feb 2017
    12:12pm
    WStaton,
    "A huge conglomerate can say get stuffed to the Fair work Commissions"
    That was the case, providing they had union support, and while Fairwork was stacked.
    All that has changed now. Big business is on a level footing with small business.
    That's what you call equality.
    Let's face it. The Labor /union movement reduced your wages if you worked for a big business. Bill Shorten was that confident the Fairwork decision would not bring about parity that he said "there is more chance of earth being contacted by another planet."
    But that was also at a time when he said he would abide by the independent Fairwork Commission.
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    9:28am
    Good why should you get paid more for working weekends anyway? That together with cuts in the company tax rate will get more of our young employed and off the dole.
    Anonymous
    24th Feb 2017
    9:45am
    Might even help boost the economy Old Geezer
    Wstaton
    24th Feb 2017
    9:55am
    And pigs may fly.
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    9:59am
    Is it fair that a person can work the same job on a Saturday and Sunday and get paid more than someone who works 5 days?
    Poppa Bear
    24th Feb 2017
    10:02am
    I hope you are right. Old Geezer. There are many who will pocket the extra and not boost employment.
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    10:04am
    OG I would like to see the banks and govt depts working weekends too if these days are no longer any different to the week days, see the outbursts then and if anyone thinks Woolies and Coles etc would employ more people they have rocks in their head. My son has worked for Woollies for over 40 years and they are gradually cutting back on staff not employing them.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    10:14am
    Because weekends are the time of leisure... working weekends incurs extra payment for losing out. They don't hold the NRL Grand Final on a Tuesday Morning 3AM (Simon and Garfunkel)....
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    10:24am
    I can't see any benefit to the economy, for the extra people who may? be employed adding to the economy those who are losing money in their pay packets will have less to spend so what is the point?.
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    10:45am
    I have a family member who works a normal job and Woolies virtually beg him to work Sundays as they can't get staff.
    Kaz
    24th Feb 2017
    10:47am
    Don't be ridiculous, it doesn't work like that and you know it. You put older people to shame, I'm embarrassed for you
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    10:54am
    And no wonder they can't get staff OG when the staff they already have are expected to sometimes do the work of 2 people because they won't employ more staff.
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    10:56am
    Misty you were right about one thing. You can't see any benefit to the economy. You really need to stop idolising the unions. They will lead you up a cul de sac.
    The unions previously struck workplace agreements with Woolies and Coles so they are already on the lower rate. In Fact only 20% of Sunday workers in those awards are effected.
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    11:08am
    People like you make me mad Frank, not all Unions are bad, they have done a lot to gain better pay and working conditions for people, especially those individuals who cannot fight for themselves so stop union bashing please.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    11:11am
    I recall working for the club one public holiday night, driving the Bus, and the guy at Coles, just shutting down at 10pm, said he was copping $50 an hour and no customers.

    How does that equate to 'lower rate of pay'?
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    11:17am
    Misty I think you should take your blinkers off and really see the what is happening in the real world.
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    11:26am
    Misty, Why attack the messenger? I guess it's because the reality is not palatable. Misty don't get mad, get informed.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    12:21pm
    We've seen what's happening in the real world, OG - and we reject it........
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    12:25pm
    I don't need your advice Frank I have been a union member all my working life, first as a Nursing Sister and then 25 years with the Education Dept and the unions have helped me out many times over those years, you are the one who needs to take your blinkers off and go out and meet battlers in the real world.
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    1:50pm
    Misty where are these battlers in the real world? Asia? Middle East? Mexico? Stop your whinging and count your blessings. :)
    Wstaton
    24th Feb 2017
    2:41pm
    Now let me see.

    lets say a cafe employs 3 waiting staff and says because of the %200 overtime for Sundays they say they cannot open.

    I guess these 3 waiting staff are full worked other than Sunday.

    So can the cafe reckons they can now because they will be gifted if the current staff (Who say get paid $25 hour normal time, not sure the actual but this is just an example) work on Sunday with a saving of $12.50 per staff member per hour. If all staff members are fulling employed (which I doubt) for 6hours then this is a saving of $225.

    Now we have to take into account the demand on a Sunday. Will more people eat out our are the current cafes that are open managing the demand. If more cafes are open and the demand is currently being met won't that take away from the cafes that were open before reducing their profitability. I hardly believe that the $225 dollars saving would make up for the loss of business.

    Now lets look at the currently Sunday opening cafes who have a staff of 3 and who are fully employed serving customers. Would they need to employ more staff? especially when it is said that reducing of the current wages of the staff equals the amount needed to be able to employ one more staff at the current overall wages. No they wouldn't, especially if other cafes are opening increasing competition for customers.
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    3:21pm
    Wstaton, you make a compelling argument for minimal impact. However, it is a start. Now we need to see power prices drop. Let's make this country great again.
    What's the alternative? Get the unions back in to run us into a tird world banaba republic?
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    5:43pm
    We don't live in the Middle East, Asia or Mexico - we live HERE, and we want our rules and our pay packets to fit the costs of living HERE - not there. The whole world is not just about fattening the pockets of those on the inside, you know.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    5:46pm
    It wasn't the unions that ran the joint down - it was the governments of the day.... that's why we need to change them and have a healthy union movement that doesn't need to engage in warfare to get what the working people need to get by.

    There is a balance between government, business and unions/workers - at the moment it is totally out of whack due to the first two - NOT the last one.
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    10:13pm
    Frank you are another one with their head in the sand, where are the real battlers?, just go to Vinnies or the Salvo's and they will take you to meet them.
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    10:19pm
    So the battlers aren't the baristas earning $400 for a days work? Thank you!!!
    game set match!!!
    thank you ball boys !!!
    Thank you Linesman!!!
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    10:36pm
    Now YOU are being ridiculous Frank.
    Rosret
    25th Feb 2017
    9:13pm
    Old Geezer the premise that all time is equal is not true. Having worked in a place with overlapping shifts where one group had an early shift and the other stayed til dark and drove home each evening in the peak hour traffic while their counterparts left at 2:30 and were home to be with their children I can promise you that what hours you work makes a huge difference.
    If you work Sundays you miss all family events, the joy or spending time with your children on a day they have off etc etc.
    It does impact on your moral and job satisfaction - the bonus is being rewarded for the sacrifice.
    The lowering of the penalty rate will do nothing to help improve employment rates but rather give the proprietors a little more profit to the detriment of the employees.
    Its not enough of a decrease to help the small shop owner who probably closes on Sunday already.
    Adrianus
    25th Feb 2017
    9:51pm
    Rosret, are you saying that only people with children should be paid extra for working on Sundays?
    Retired Knowall
    26th Feb 2017
    11:05am
    I haven't been paid penalty rates for the last 20 years. Most of the time I worked a 14 days on and 6 days off and was paid on performance. Life is all about choices, if you don't like your job, the hours or pay rate...get another job.
    Misty
    26th Feb 2017
    10:40pm
    Retired Knowall methinks you know very little, as I have said before sometimes people have no choice but to stay in the job they have and probably you had penalty rates in the form of higher wages built into the remuneration for the job you had, SOMETIMES LIFE HAS NO CHOICES BUT PUT UP WITH WHAT YOU HAVE.
    Retired Knowall
    27th Feb 2017
    8:09am
    MISTY, if you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what you already get.
    The VICTIM Mentality drones of society will always bleet "Oh Poor Me". Life always gives you choices, but, if you want to be a victim, Thats Your Choice.
    Misty
    27th Feb 2017
    2:44pm
    Retired Knowall you have obviously led a very sheltered life if that is what you think, circumstances in life sometimes do not allow you choices, haven't your learnt that yet?, get out and about in the real world and see how the other half live.
    Adrianus
    27th Feb 2017
    3:17pm
    Misty, have you had the opportunity to see the play/movie "my fair lady?"
    Misty
    27th Feb 2017
    3:35pm
    Yes I have Frank, both the movie and play, I fail to see the connection here.
    Retired Knowall
    27th Feb 2017
    4:50pm
    I've been in the real world for 70 years, early years were tough but I didn't sit around and play the victim card. I worked 2 jobs for over 10 years, educated myself to the point of being a valuable employee, then went into business myself employing people as needed. I have employed handicapped people that also would not play the victim card. You always have choices, you just need to take the blinkers off and get on with life and invest in yourself. I note you are a Union Drone, that explains a lot.
    If anyone needs to get out into the real world it's you, start a business hire some of your Union Drones.
    Misty
    27th Feb 2017
    5:45pm
    Retired Knowall take your halo off and listen to your elder, I am 9 years older then you and obviously those extra years have made a difference, you are not the only one to work 2 jobs at the same time, I worked in the school office from 8 am until 4 pm and then for 2 or 3 days and weekends worked 4 until 11pm in a nursing home. In the school job I needed union help to get my job back when I was made redundant due to some stupid govt decision, fortunately it only lasted 3 months and I got my job back again,my husband worked for the RTA and the union helped him with pay and conditions when he worked in the snow so stop the union bashing please and GROW UP.
    Retired Knowall
    27th Feb 2017
    6:42pm
    The Union movement was necessary in the early days, pre 1950.
    In the last 40 years it has been a cesspool for bludgers to hide behind.
    My experience has been that the most successful businesses are those that don't have union affiliation. The employees in these non union businesses are better paid with better conditions.
    Why have we lost our car industries? In fact why have we lost most of our manufacturing industries?
    Please explain the corruption in the HSU, CMFEU and Building Unions?
    Misty
    27th Feb 2017
    7:01pm
    Human nature Retired Knowall, greed is what it is and not just in the unions, Politicians, Bankers, Racing Industry, you name it I am sure they have all something to answer for too. Why have we lost all those industries mentioned above?, ask the people who own them Retired Knowall, it is the fact that people in 3rd world countries work for a lot less wages but don't worry they are finally waking up to the fact that they are being ripped off and demanding better wages and working conditions.
    Retired Knowall
    28th Feb 2017
    1:25pm
    I've worked all over Australia in more than 8 industries, some employing more than 5 thousand people. Can you explain why in all those industries that every one of the Union Delegates was the worst Malingerer or Boofhead Bully, relying on his drones to protect him.
    I worked in the Ship building industry for about 7 years and was sent to Korea to help commission one of the ships and discussed the death of ship building in Australia with the Plant Manager.
    I mentioned I thought that our problem was our wages, I was soon put straight. I was told the wages of his trades people were better than ours, the main difference was the work ethic of his people. After watching them work, it became apparent that they work smarter, not harder, and they work with management to improve the business outcomes.
    That's why they could produce a finished ship in less than half the time Australian workers could.

    24th Feb 2017
    9:44am
    Billy Shorten and his lefties got a nice kick in the arse he appointed with Gillard and Rudd the members of the Fair Work Commission and they gave him this result and now he wants to take it to court as plodder says what does he stand for ?
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    10:15am
    Maybe he's learned his lesson from the punishment Labrador copped last time.... everyone can learn and turn over a new leaf..... (I doubt it in reality - Labor is committed to an ideology of proportionate representation after being swamped by women wanting a sweet ride).
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    9:49am
    Common Leon, nobody is getting a 50% cut. You're as bad as Bill Shorten and his dodgy BS.
    dougie
    24th Feb 2017
    9:50am
    Sundays no longer have the significance as a day of church and rest. With the multicultural society that we now have this need has considerably lessened. However the same conditions should apply to all religions with no special conditions or allowances to meet their religious rites.
    This is not racist or homophobic just fairness to all employees.
    The decision was made by an independent body and as I see it the penalty payment will be further reduced over coming years. Do not blame Turnbull as he was not the one responsible for the appointments to this Commission and he has allowed the "Independent" body to make the decision. All parties had the chance to make submissions, and there were many, the losses are not so great as to be catastrophic to most employees. The alternative is simple "do not work Sundays". The choice is yours!
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    10:12am
    Easy to say doughie, what do you think your employer will say to you if you say "I won't work Sundays"?, they will say "Ok you can leave right now if that is the case", GET IN THE REAL WORLD DOUGIE AND ANYONE ELSE COMMENTING HERE WHO THINKS OTHERWISE. I think a lot of the people commenting here have been out of the workforce for too long to know what conditions are like now and what a struggle it is for people on low incomes and how much thery depend on weekend penalty rates to boost their income.
    Jess M
    24th Feb 2017
    10:12am
    No choice if you need the money to live. We as a society should be careful because if good people cannot feed themselves or their families if they cannot pay the rent or mortgage they may have to turn to other ways.
    These people are the lowest paid workers in our country. Do we really want to see them go without further?
    Australia is a good country because it believes in a fair go for ALL. These workers are not being given a fair go and we should be saying so.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    10:17am
    Tell that to the football crowd on Finals days... they'll all be waiting breathlessly to finish work so they can get home to watch the replay after Tuesday afternoon's scheduled match..... (BS>>BS)....
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    10:37am
    I agree dougie. In fact I do most of my work now on a weekend as it is the quietest time of the week around here and I can go places during the week while others are working.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    10:50am
    Now you're getting the gist, OG.. there's hope yet....
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    10:50am
    Now you're getting the gist, OG.. there's hope yet....
    dougie
    24th Feb 2017
    11:19am
    Misty,
    My statement was made to indicate that you do have a choice that the employer does not have. He legally has to pay the amount of penalty applicable under the law. Unless of course you are one of those large organisations who have their own award conditions agreed to by the workers in Workplace Agreements. These generally pay a lesser penalty than those in general awards and their seems to be an acceptance of that payment.
    Employers have the choice - "Do I open at weekends to hopefully increase my return" or " Do I not open and not pay any penalty rates at all".
    You see Misty there is a choice on both sides and both sides are affected by whatever choice is made. I do not know any answer other than compromise.
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    11:26am
    Many restaurants and cafes don't pay penalty rates on weekends because no one wants to work. They pay their employees cash but at normal rates. Students and others on welfare are happy too as their benefits are not affected and they get some extra spending money.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    12:23pm
    Best not to raise the issue of legal and non-legal payments at the moment..... see 7-11 etc.... when I can buy petrol for 113.9 a litre when it's 142.9 elsewhere, I have to wonder how much the Indian attendant on a student visa is being paid.
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    1:52pm
    Sorry Trebor but it isn't all rosy goodie goodie stuff out there in the real world.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    5:48pm
    Sorry, OG - but if you are aware of employers ripping off their workers, or genuine workers by paying students etc cash, you really need to report it.
    Paddles
    24th Feb 2017
    9:59pm
    Misty

    "I think a lot of the people commenting here have been out of the workforce for too long to know what conditions are like now and what a struggle it is for people on low incomes and how much thery depend on weekend penalty rates to boost their income."

    An interesting comment Misty and I tend to agree with your basic premise but I draw a different conclusion.
    Those that have been out of the workforce for many years also have the benefit of knowing what the situation was in times past.
    In the 66+ years since I entered the workforce I have seen the gradual changes that brought us to the present day and I have long been expecting a major "correction" to social working and living conditions.
    Perhaps this is the start of it and, if it's not, then it won't be too far into the future. If you are younger than (say) 60, then you won't have much idea what I am talking about but the older members should agree that, as a country, we have been living beyond our means for many years now and a period of financial stagnation such as we are experiencing now, merely brings it into the light of day.
    We have been overpaying and under-producing since the 70"s and this needs to be corrected. The cut to penalty rates, whilst small, is at least a step in the right direction and there is much to be done to make us competitive in the modern world.
    Our aspirations are set far too high and we are wallowing in debt, much of it on the credit card. We really must work harder, spend less and exercise some national prudence. Politicians being as they are at this time, I am not confident.
    Anonymous
    25th Feb 2017
    1:55pm
    Oh no, Trebor. OG stands for attacking poor pensioners who are victims of Centrelink errors, branding them frauds and cheats despite having no evidence, but when it comes to business illegally profiteering by ripping off desperate workers, OG is all in favour.
    TREBOR
    26th Feb 2017
    7:44pm
    We'll start with the big fish, then, Paddles - after they are brought to heel the small fish will follow.
    bob
    24th Feb 2017
    9:57am
    i remember a few years back there was a bad storm and thousands were blacked out .energex called on one of it,s big contractors and was told -sorry we do not pay weekend rates,call us on monday.
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    10:19am
    Yes Bob and what about all the Fire Brigade, Police, hospital staff, transport staff etc, what happens if all these people decide not to work on Sundays?, is it going to be one rule for all or a discriminatory one that sets one lot of workers against another?, why are some workers getting a pay cut for working Sundays but others do not?.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    11:15am
    Exactly - it's discriminatory and thus should fall at the first hurdle when a legal challenge is put. There are no different rules for different workers, and Law stipulates that all must be treated equally.
    Paddles
    24th Feb 2017
    10:01pm
    WHAT LAW TREBOR???????????????
    TREBOR
    26th Feb 2017
    2:05am
    Spot on, Paddles - here in Australia we have no Law. We have legislation, law and regulation ... but we do not have Law.
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    10:00am
    Then why don't the banks and Govt offices stay open on Saturdays and Sundays if every day is the same now?.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    10:17am
    Spot on......... why does Parliament close except for an emergency....?
    Retired Knowall
    27th Feb 2017
    4:53pm
    Because we don't need them open on the weekend. Not all shops are open the weekend, only those that can open and make a profit open.
    Jess M
    24th Feb 2017
    10:00am
    It is a sad society when we have to take from our lowest paid workers. Yet CEO's can make millions. As there is a minimum wage perhaps there should be a maximum wage.
    Adrianus
    27th Feb 2017
    5:16pm
    Jess, these aren't the lowest paid workers. They are getting paid 150% to 200% more then their mates working the Monday shift. But nice try :) I'll bet you heard Bill Shorten say that? C'mon be honest? :)
    maelcolium
    24th Feb 2017
    10:02am
    They are called the Fair Work Commission. The Commissioner stated that that removing penalties will cause some hardship to workers, and so transitioned the implementation, but at the end of it all, it's still going to cause hardship. What's fair about that? This body should change their name because there was nothing fair about this decision.
    The paradox is that this will only add to the decline in economic activity. What these geniuses fail to understand is that these workers are consumers who will now be forced to reduce their consumption so in effect the demand in the economy just took a major hit.
    They will also pay less tax so the taxation revenue will fall and place further pressure on the national accounts. That surplus this bunch of political fools are looking for just disappeared into the sunset.
    At any level this is stupid. And to think this is the quality of leadership in this country. Little wonder Australia as a nation is stuffed!
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    10:18am
    Covered it well.........
    Golfer
    24th Feb 2017
    10:34am
    So.....based on your argument maelcollum we should pay people more to work on sundays! As this would inject more dollars into the economy, thereby increases tax revenues to the government and relieve pressure on the national accounts!
    REALLY???

    I don't think so.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    10:53am
    Jo works five hours on Sunday @ double time on top of her 35 hours M-F - she pays more tax.. i.e. tax revenue increases.

    Jo has more discretionary income since she works Sunday at double time on top of etc - she can spend more - i.e. more economic activity, all of which draws tax until it reaches the fat cats who hide it or offshore it.

    Now - what was that problem again?

    I DO think so, Golfer - stick to golf.
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    10:57am
    Have you got a better Idea Golfer?
    Wstaton
    24th Feb 2017
    5:03pm
    Well put Trebor.
    Anonymous
    25th Feb 2017
    2:13pm
    Correct, trebor and maelcolium, but it's a tough one. I've been on the other side. There are businesses that just can't afford to pay the penalty rates but would fail if they couldn't open on weekends. On the other hand, mostly if those businesses are run by good people, they find workers only too eager to work cash in hand at an agreed fair rate, with nothing recorded on the books. Nobody likes to break the law, but sometimes there is just no choice. It's a question of survival - for both employer and worker.

    The problem is that the businesses that can well afford to pay don't - and won't. And now they are being indulged on the pretext of improving the situation for the small battling business that genuinely needed a helping hand. And the result is that big business wins, AGAIN. Employees and the tax office lose. Reduced spending impacts adversely on the economy. And any positive result is entirely offset by the negative outcomes.

    It won't help the economy at all. It will help selected employers who don't need help. And it MIGHT enable a few who were ducking under the counter to surface and operate legally - maybe! Any who do didn't need policing anyway. They were just honest battlers doing the best they could in a bad situation. Real cheats and exploiters will always continue to do wrong and no reform is going to tempt them to come clean.
    TREBOR
    26th Feb 2017
    2:08am
    If you can't afford to pay the income for a week's work to an employee - why are you in business'?
    Anonymous
    26th Feb 2017
    6:04pm
    I think that's a little harsh, Trebor. A lot of businesses struggle, for various reasons and sometimes only at various times. Businesses that were thriving see a downturn in the local economy. In our case, timber cutting ceased due to the Greens and suddenly the town started to die. But it desperately needed certain businesses to stay open. Locals were happy to work for cash in hand to help us stay afloat while we all worked together to hopefully attract alternate industries to rebuild the town.

    What's the alternative if a business is struggling? Close the doors and walk away? The employees lose their jobs (much worse for many than losing their overtime bonus!). The proprietor loses his capital and his family income. The town loses. The ATO loses. The economy loses.

    Years ago, we tried to get council approval to run a small manufacturing business from our shed on a half-acre on the edge of town. An arrogant councillor said ''If you're flying that close to the wind that you can't pay rent for an industrial shed, you should shut down.'' My reply was ''Fine. We'll close down and I'll call several radio, TV and newspaper journalists to bring cameras and photograph us standing in a dole queue at Centrelink, along with our two employees, and do a feature interview on why four more people are now on unemployment benefits, despite wanting to work and having a great little home-based business that could operate without risk or hurt to anyone, in a shed nobody can see, in a location where traffic would never be a problem. I trust I can refer them to you for comment? No doubt you'll explain why businesses that aren't quite as profitable as some others shouldn't be allowed to exist, even if they support 3 families adequately and generate tax revenue. No doubt you'll clarify why it's better to have 4 people on the dole than employed and paying tax?''

    He approved our application.
    Anonymous
    26th Feb 2017
    6:05pm
    BTW. We love being self-employed, and working from home. It's not all about money. It's a lifestyle.
    TREBOR
    26th Feb 2017
    7:45pm
    Yee--ush -n perhaps I can be a bit tough at times. Every position must have a little leeway in it.
    Retired Knowall
    27th Feb 2017
    4:58pm
    Why don't we pay everyone twice their current salary?
    They would pay more tax and have more discretionary income,
    win - win for everyone.
    Great Logic TREBOR
    Eddy
    24th Feb 2017
    10:08am
    I feel for the young people who are going to pay the price of this latest Unfair Work Commission ruling on penalty rates. This so called LNP Government appear to be trying to create a pool of working poor to put pressure on all wages and conditions. Anybody who believes that more jobs will be created by this decision probably also believe that giving tax cuts to the rich will 'trickle. down to the poor.
    I am starting to feel sorry for the late R.G. Menzies. In 1939 he did his 'melancholy duty" and took us to war against the Fascists, only, after his death, to have the party he founded taken over by the Fascists.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    10:21am
    It will reflect in their dependency on social security during working life and in retirement as well, thus defeating the entire purpose of superannuation and every change these fools seek to put in place. I harken you back to the discussion over which Bank not paying superannuation properly.... This kind of nonsense is what is creating generational poverty and social security dependence.

    This country needs a proper change of government, both kinds. Neither has any answers for Australia.
    Sundays
    24th Feb 2017
    12:34pm
    Yes Trebor and neither does Pauline Hanson. To those who think she is for the people, not in this case. Today, she is only for small business. Her views on cutting welfare are also well known.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    5:56pm
    I have to agree, Sundays, over Pauline. She showed her true colours immediately by supporting the raft of social security cuts - but stood out against increased childcare.

    Now I don't agree with childcare subsidies personally and feel they have several detrimental effects, not least of which being that they are open to those who least need them, but I will admit to being 'conflicted' over the absolute right of a woman to re-enter the workforce when so many are unemployed and in a single income family situation (we'll argue that one later) - but when a senator votes in favour of cuts to social security for the unemployed, shafting older adults as 'youths' up to age 25, and so forth - that senator is obviously either blind, stupid, or already online with the current (failed) government and its ridiculous impositions of hardship for those with the least.

    Apparently Pauline feels every unemployed person or single mother should run a fish shop in Ipswich, which beggars the reality that there is only room for ONE fish shop in Ipswich.

    Maybe these neo-Thatcherites could go the whole hog and cut legless Veteran's pensions as well like she did - even Reagan didn't have the balls to do that!

    And don't get me started on delays and restrictions on claims for Veterans and injured in Service people...
    Charlie
    24th Feb 2017
    10:20am
    I would rather see public holiday rates and their surcharges go, before the sacred day of rest.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    10:22am
    You'll still pay the Sunday surcharges, Charlie.... Sorry 'Bout That...
    Charlie
    24th Feb 2017
    5:56pm
    Surchage is ok if I can be sure of what day it applies, but when it comes to long weekends it gets hard to work out, what day they they are allowed to charge it and what day they aren't. Upsets my morning coffee no end.
    RogerA
    24th Feb 2017
    10:24am
    "Sunday pay cuts ...Do you think it's fair?" No. It cannot ever be "fair" to decrease incomes for those at the bottom of the wages scale. It can only be "fair" if everyone takes an income cut. But is "fair" the only question? There is a bigger question which is likely to be ignored. What will be the impact upon the economy? Some claim that businesses will hire more staff, create more jobs, boost employment, be good for growth (the "trickle down" theory). Others look more broadly at the economic trend, see http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-23/penalty-rate-cuts-could-backfire-on-business/8296260 - much of the money employers save from reductions in penalty rates will go into debt reduction, paying for increases in rent, electricity, LG rates, etc, rather than into hiring more staff. As Michael Janda points out, "When you engage in a race to the bottom, sometimes you manage to get there".
    coff
    24th Feb 2017
    10:37am
    i find the the use of percentage cuts can be misleading and a better balanced article would use examples similar to the below.

    a full time worker on $20 per hour
    a casual worker on $25 (includes $20 per hour + $5 (25%casual surcharge)

    RETAIL
    Fulltime = $40 to $30
    Casual = $50 to $43.75

    HOSPITALITY
    Fulltime = $35 to $30
    Fulltime Fastfood = $30 to $25
    Casual = $43.75 unchanged

    RESTAURANT & CLUB = Unchanged

    PHARMACY
    Fulltime = $40 to $30
    Casual = $50 to $43.75

    our wages have continued to rise year on year and the number of small businesses opening and the number of staff working at big businesses on weekend have decrease to the stage where customer service is a thing of the past.

    Every time wages rise it pushes more businesses to look offshore for manufacturing or to the internet for sales, or to expect more work from a smaller number of staff.
    This all leads to more job losses and longer waiting times for those buying products.

    We need governments from both sides with fore site and balls to push for a return to manufacturing through increased import duties, reduced wages where possible, and government incentives.

    If the unions keep getting their way and governments continue to argue over petty issues so as to make themselves look better then our kids, and their kids will find having a job is a privileged. we will see more and more people going through their entire life relying on centrelink.


    graham
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    10:42am
    I used to run a business employing Aussies but it was so much cheaper to get the work done overseas and just employ a couple of staff to check the work when it was done. Aussie just cannot compete now.

    I have a good laugh about teaching our kids coding when one can get it done at a fraction of the cost overseas.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    10:59am
    Two out of three out of five small business fail within three years, according to the ABS. Around 2000 that was 2/3 in two years...... I wonder about those figures.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2015/09/28/small-business-failure_n_8187166.html

    Not going to post it all for you - do your own link homework..... not hard.

    Paying wages is a readily foreseeable cost to business - if you cannot even start from that certainty and work out your business costings, what hope do you have?

    I see a lot about 'tradies' earning so much - most are sole traders and maybe employ one or two casuals..... a great start when your audience is essentially captive due to regulations etc. Even so many tradies go bust - they over-spend.
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    11:01am
    Not very Patriotic are you OG taking work away from our Aussies, YOU ARE PART OF THE REASON WE HAVE THIS JOB SHORTAGE NOW.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    11:01am
    You offshorers are part of the problem, OG. You don't pay your way in this nation, but The Trebor Party will bring in an Offshoring Exit Tax that will catch your kind.... shtting the gates both ways, it's called.

    Live here, love it here, pay your way here... we are not part of your Third World and you will not be making us so.
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    11:06am
    Trebor I no longer own that business so your tax will not worry me at all.

    No I'm not the part of the reason we have a job shortage here. Our workers have priced themselves out of a job. I've been helping a young fellow with his mowing and gardening because he can't get anyone to help him. There are plenty of jobs here but Aussies just don't want to do them.
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    11:15am
    If we continue down this track only Public Servants will have the capacity to buy anything. Why are their wages continually rising? One of them resigned because of embarrassment at his $5.6m salary.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    11:16am
    We'll make it retrospective then for forty years....................
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    11:19am
    Ask John Howard about the massive cost of higher order public servants - he created them anew into contracted employees..... nobody here did.... then there is the privatisation lobby - those clowns who run those triple cost businesses are not public servants in the true sense of the word.

    The average public servant has had a salary freeze in place for three years due to the dire economic circumstances of the country. The 'executive branch' hasn't had any such freeze.
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    12:02pm
    Misty, you raise a good point. Are you saying that you buy the more expensive item because it is made in Australia?
    Nobody wants to speak about it but our car manufacturers were paying very high wages.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    12:29pm
    Car manufacturers were paying Award plus loadings for skill, grade, service, conditions etc.... same as anywhere else ...the stories of $56 an hour car builders are myths.

    What drove the car markets to their short-term 'salvation' by offshoring was the simple economics that said the market was too limited to carry the number being produced and imported. I still can't see where they're going to make up that market share offshore - no Chindistani in his/her right mind will buy a 5.7 litre gas guzzler when he/she can buy a Toyota or a Great Wall... (re-badged Chinese built Mazdas, aren't they?).... remember the good old days when Oz imported 'B' models of Japanese vehicles and re-badged them.... now Japan is in the same boat....
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    12:37pm
    Yes Frank I buy Aussie made wherever it is available but unfortunately not everyone can afford to do this, I don't know how Donald Trump is going to be able too start manufacturing jobs in the USA when overseas workers are paid a lot less then those in the USA thus making goods made in the USA much more expensive. People on pensions and low incomes will buy whatever is the cheapest, at least that is what I have found out over the years. What is the answer?, I don't know, maybe a universal wage for different categories of workers world wide but I can't see that happening in 3rd world countries.
    Wstaton
    24th Feb 2017
    5:06pm
    Geez OG. You seemed to have done everything.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    6:01pm
    Well... some people do a hell of a lot.... I'm one of them..... but I'm not up there with OG....

    The difference between OG and I is that I learned from a varied life experience to be more accepting of many things - he learned to see himself first. I recall a female US Army Major saying, at their Staff College Course (not the same one that voted, with around 40% female officers - NOT to have women in combat), that the reason for her success was that she put herself first, and thus could put others a close second. I'm from a different school - I put others first and they love to follow me.... and I'm considered lucky... if only.....
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    6:27pm
    Obviously you haven't learnt life's most valuable lesson Trebor. If you don't look after yourself then nobody else will.
    TREBOR
    26th Feb 2017
    2:12am
    You're right - I'm not a greedy prick.
    Adrianus
    28th Feb 2017
    10:17pm
    Trebor , just for your information. I spoke with an assembly line guy at Ford. He said he was on $80k, had good hours and conditions. One condition (perk) was that every 2 years he could buy a new car for half price. But you keep peddling your BS mate if it makes you feel good :)
    Not a Bludger
    24th Feb 2017
    10:45am
    This is not a "slash"- rather a slight reduction, which, whilst useful goes nowhere near far enough.

    In the 21st century and a 24 hour economy there is no room or logic for penalty rates - they are an anachronistic hang over from the union rhetoric of the early/mid 1900's.

    Simply, pay the rate for the job - could also then save a motza by getting rid of the Fair Work Commission and the ex-union hacks that inhabit it.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    11:21am
    This is not a "slash"- rather a slight reduction, which, whilst useful goes nowhere.

    Fixed for you. First fix free - after that it's commission of audit fee for a day or part thereof for repairing posts.

    To someone whose only source of income outside Unemployment Benefits is a five hour job on Sunday - this is a HUGE imposition, as much as $50.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    11:22am
    Your last sentence is correct, but your reasoning is flawed. Saturdays and Sundays and public holidays are not ordinary days of the week.
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    11:34am
    Saturdays and Sundays are ordinary days of the week for me. Probably more ordinary than the rest as I stay home and work and avoid the weekend crowds and surcharges.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    12:29pm
    You are not on wages, OG... rest it now.
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    1:51pm
    Of cause I am Trebor I pay myself a wage.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    6:01pm
    I knew you'd say that - case dismissed.
    Chrissy L
    24th Feb 2017
    10:51am
    How unfair is this decision by the "Fair Work Commision"? It will affect Students, Mums and Dads trying to honestly earn a bit extra to help with the rising cost of living. First penny pinching cuts to the Pensioners, now targeting the working battlers. Who is next on the hit list? Nurses, Emergency Service Workers? I would lay odds it won't be our Politicians!
    At the end of the day these decisions impact heavily on low to middle income people, their ability to manage their budgets whilst still being able to live a reasonable lifestyle, provide for their families and save for their future. The rich and poor divide is growing day by day in this Country. What happened to a 'Fair Go?" The fast food and retail execs must be rubbing their hands together with glee at this decision. Maybe we should all apply for the vacancy of CEO at Australia Post? 5.4million in Salary and over 4 million in Super when he retires.
    Jess M
    24th Feb 2017
    10:54am
    I would be very worried if I worked in other industries. The Commission appear to have proven that Saturday and Sundays are no longer considered any different to other days of the week. Let us hope that this unfair decision on the retail and hospitality industries doesn't flow on to Police, Fire, Ambulance and other workers.
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    11:03am
    Jess, Sundays were different because that was the day we went to church. Things will be different in the near future because we will get time off to pray at the mosque 5 times a day.
    niemakawa
    25th Feb 2017
    9:26pm
    Frank and that will be on a Friday.
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    11:00am
    The unions previously struck workplace agreements with Woolies and Coles so they are already paying their staff the lower rate. When the unions did this they effectively put our small businesses at a huge disadvantage.
    Is it fair??
    Of course it's bloody fair if you want a level playing field for our small businesses!!!
    Wake up Australia!!!
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    11:05am
    The work agreements must not return lower than Award rates - any tradeoff is in penalty rates for a single rate for every hour. If there is a problem of underpaying as a result, it can be fixed via the proper circuit.

    Woolies and Coles don't disadvantage small business by having lower rates of pay - they do it in other ways, with volume of trade and markup values and by control of sources of supply, ability to undercut for volume from suppliers etc.

    There's a Farmer's Market getting up here... long overdue in a rural area. Sometimes a little higher priced than Colesworths of Wocoles, but you don;t have to travel for your veg etc, and it's fresh from the farm gate.
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    11:14am
    We have farmers markets around here but you are only allowed to sell what no one else is selling. Prices are way too high for me and one can buy at a supermarket at a fraction of what they are charging. So are people going to go out of their way to one of these markets to pay inflated prices? Some do but many don't. One market you could just sell you excess produce no mater what it was but one of the market holders got control of it and now tells the others what they can and can't sell. One stall holder got into big trouble and was told not to come again because they ran out of tomatoes. This stall holder was one of the ones that started this market.

    Not too sure how fresh it is sitting in the sun all day.

    I went to a farmer's market in Wellington NZ and the prices were what one expects at a farmers market where people sell their excess produce. I bought enough ingredients to make a week's worth of salad for about $2.
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    11:14am
    Are you one of the ones like OG, who uses overseas staff for your business Frank to cut costs? not very Australian is it?, aren't we meant to look after our own backyard first?.
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    11:30am
    Misty unfortunately many businesses can't afford Aussie staff and if it's a choice of keeping the business afloat or going under then what choice have they got? Patriotism comes at too bigger cost for some.
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    11:37am
    I would like to see Woolies, Maccas and Coles move offshore. Maybe they could have drive through pick up at the airport? So why strike a low wage deal? Was it similar to the deal at Chiquita Mushrooms that union boss Bill Shorten put together. Misty you obviously did not watch the TURC. They sold us out to big business.
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    11:41am
    Frank there are certain airports in Australia that have Maccas inside their international section and it's cheaper than the one outside as they don't charge you GST.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    12:14pm
    Check your Colesworths fruit and veg carefully - twenny-fi' dullah long time freezah/cool roo'... me chill you long time...
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    6:25pm
    Much of the fruit & veg I eat are actually grown by me. Beans I grow last for over 2 months in the fridge but those from Coles are bad within days.
    TREBOR
    26th Feb 2017
    2:18am
    Well, OG - that is outstandingly relevant to the current issue.

    I grow most of my vegetables, but you are evading the issue of long term Colesworths chill rooming of produce, as opposed to local fresh produce.

    I'm no 'hippy', LTCs in certain areas are not, but I know the difference.
    Paulo
    24th Feb 2017
    11:15am
    I don't know what calculator Leon used but his calculations are WRONG. A cut from double time to time and a half is a 25% reduction in wages for that day, reducing double time to time and three quarters is a 12.5 % reduction. Why the dishonesty in reporting? Lets have TRUTH in these reports not inflammatory rubbish.
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    11:31am
    For a cut you work on the higher figure for a margin you work in the lower figure. Same as off cost and on cost percentages.
    Not Senile Yet!
    24th Feb 2017
    11:40am
    Stupid decision by morons...not really!
    They are all highly intelligent people...so what is behind it all?
    Simple really....they want us all tied to the Third world economy....basically working for shit as Slaves!
    Changing Australia to an American style economy where competition drives wages down and inflation removes your ability to buy a home and pay Utilities...school...and feed yourself!
    Why?
    Because it suits them...the profit makers....to screw their employees down to a pittance!
    And all this because they removed protection Tariffs for Australian Businesses!
    You cannot ever compete with 25 Billion workers on $2 an hour with 25 Million population!
    The Economies of Scale and wages are not compatable for Competition without bring the 25Million back to the same poverty level of the 25Billion!
    Not Rocket Science!
    Black is White and White is Black....according to all Wankers.....who promise one thing but only deliver Poverty for the don't haves....and profit to the Businesses!
    Extreme gaps will only get bigger!
    Legal Robbery of the Working Class!
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    12:15pm
    Well how else can you afford those now cheap digital TVs?
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    12:32pm
    How does that alleviate the plight of the lowly paid? They are forced to buy those cheap digital TVs. I recall many, many years ago saying to a recently ex-CSIRO guy I know that I didn't mind buying cheap imports that work once, but I didn't want to be forced to do so by not having access to local products.
    Paddles
    24th Feb 2017
    10:19pm
    Not Senile Yet

    Perhaps you should reconsider your nom-de-plume as Dr Google assures me that the WORLD population as at 9/2/17 was 7.2 billion.
    Farside
    24th Feb 2017
    11:52am
    I am guessing few, if any, of the outraged took the time to read the 5900 submissions and 143 testimonials that the FWC considered over 39 days before reaching its decision? Opinions are better, anyone can have one.
    Kactus
    24th Feb 2017
    11:54am
    I can't see why businesses can't simply raise their prices, on weekends & public holidays, to cover the higher pay rates.
    Petrol stations do it all the time!
    Jess M
    24th Feb 2017
    12:23pm
    Many businesses have a surcharge to cover the penalty rates lets see those that do reduce their prices.
    Farside
    24th Feb 2017
    12:34pm
    Some cafes and restaurants do charge extra or alternatively impose a minimum charge, it's user pays.
    TREBOR
    26th Feb 2017
    7:48pm
    Indeed, Farside, and that won't change one iota by lowering wages. Neither will employment.
    floss
    24th Feb 2017
    11:54am
    What a nasty un Australian piece of shit you really are O.G.
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    12:00pm
    Well all I'll say is that it takes one to know one.
    Foxy
    24th Feb 2017
    2:24pm
    .... you wrote exactly what I was "thinking" looney !!

    Certainly has the correct "online name" .... wouldn't know the meaning of the word "compassion" that's for sure! Lives a life of total and utter misery by the sounds of it?? lol lol lol
    Wstaton
    24th Feb 2017
    5:22pm
    And off course done everything.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    6:03pm
    Politics of envy - unemployed and pensioners get something for nothing (so he says) that he doesn't get, so the observer must be envious.
    Anonymous
    25th Feb 2017
    2:24pm
    No, OG, it doesn't take one to know one. It takes someone with compassion, respect and integrity to recognize someone who lacks those qualities completely. Thanks looney. You nailed him.
    Farside
    24th Feb 2017
    11:58am
    Just a thought, how many employers will reduce prices to reflect the lower wages bill? I'm guessing none but time will tell. Likewise how many employers will recruit more staff now that to do is marginally less expensive? I also suspect none, they will just pocket the savings.
    Sundays
    24th Feb 2017
    12:38pm
    Of course they will. The Public Holiday surcharge in cafes and restaurants won't reduce either
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    2:43pm
    Are you saying only big business should pay staff the lower rates?
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    6:05pm
    Which big businesses are involved, Frank? I thought Woolies etc all had agreements in place.... They're open Sundays already and have no problem paying their staff and producing a profit....
    Adrianus
    25th Feb 2017
    3:18pm
    Agreements to pay the lower Sunday penalty rates. I think Clean Event and Chiquita Mushrooms had "agreements" too.
    Misty
    25th Feb 2017
    4:46pm
    Who on earth are Clean Event and Chiquita Mushrooms Frank?, never heard of them.
    TREBOR
    26th Feb 2017
    2:21am
    Suppliers to Woolies and Coles....

    There's your answer.
    Adrianus
    26th Feb 2017
    12:41pm
    During Shorten’s tenure at the AWU’s Victorian branch he was happy to cut a wage deal for low-paid Cleanevent workers that slashed their penalty rates, while the company contributed funds to his union, including the payment of members’ dues.
    When Shorten’s branch negotiated a three-year deal for members­ on Melbourne’s East Link freeway project for Thiess­-John Holland, the construction consortium agreed to a union-­requested payment of $300,000 that went straight into AWU coffers. Shorten escaped criticism over this and other ­arrangements involving payments to his union in the 2015 findings of the royal commission into union corruption.
    TREBOR
    26th Feb 2017
    7:50pm
    Yee-ussh - negotiated remuneration must still fall within the proper guidelines... if this one was different in some way, I'd like to hear and so would the relevant authority.
    Adrianus
    26th Feb 2017
    10:09pm
    Oh I see. The cuts to low paid Clean event workers with the contribution to the union was within the proper guidelines and the Fairwork decision was outside the proper guidelines. I'm beginning to understand the living dead logic. ha ha ha ha!!!
    floss
    24th Feb 2017
    12:06pm
    Now the Liberal Party has attacked the people that can least afford it will they go after the 5 to 13 million dollar men . Wake up Australia you are being shafted and most are too dumb to realize.Round 1 to the Greed is Good Party.
    Old Geezer
    24th Feb 2017
    12:11pm
    This is what happens when people price themselves out of jobs.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    12:34pm
    Like the prime minister and all his mates?
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    12:35pm
    Those people didn't price themselves out of jobs, OG - government policy in privatisation raised costs of living, and then fools in parliament fell for the lie that we were somehow part of some mythical global economy that relied on poverty wages for many to garner massive riches for a few, primarily the middle men.

    When you can offer a lowering of costs of living in return for lowering wages, I'm all ears.
    GeorgeM
    24th Feb 2017
    2:13pm
    Agree with your comments, Looney.

    However, Shorten & others in the so-called "Labor" party set up this flawed so-called "Fair" Work commission and set in place this review which just occurred. They should have included a Fair Work decree that the maximum for CEOs and others at the top should not exceed say 10 times the Average Wage (currently around $78,000). Or else, anyone paid more than our Prime Minister should be taxed at a 90% marginal tax rate!

    So-called "Labor" also ramped up the 457 visa rorts, and added heaps of fake Student programs with people picking up local jobs, to drive down the worker's wages.

    So, who you gonna vote for????? Trump (he is out to create American jobs, unlike our local pretenders) - if only Australia can become another State of USA? Maybe we need a Referendum for that?
    Wstaton
    24th Feb 2017
    5:25pm
    Doesn't seem to have priced the ceo and others out of the market OG.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    6:06pm
    Correct, George - that's one reason I hit out at Labor as well as the LNP.
    floss
    24th Feb 2017
    12:13pm
    Not Senile Yet you get the ya for the day you summed it up so well.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    12:36pm
    Yes, he's not senile yet.
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    12:41pm
    Hear hear Not Senile Yet.
    Adrianus
    27th Feb 2017
    3:18pm
    Where? Where?

    24th Feb 2017
    12:16pm
    I must admit to being surprised that this subject has been raised. Normally this site leans to the left and the contributors bash the government unmercifully but this subject has nothing whatsoever to do with either the Abbott or Turnbull governments.

    1. The request to have Fair Work Australia investigate penalty rates was made by the Gillard government, through its Minister Shorten.
    2. Neither the Abbott nor Turnbull governments made any representation or submission to Fair Work Australia about penalty rates.
    3. Shorten told Neil Mitchell, on air, that he would accept the decision of Fair Work Australia.
    4. The union delegate who stood with Shorten yesterday and claimed that the decision would cost him $106 pw was found out to be lying as his employer released the fact that said employee was working under an EBA which is untouched by Fair Work Australia's decision.

    To those who disagree with my comment, please do me the courtesy of attacking the comment, not the character of the commentator.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    12:37pm
    When caught between the two, I return fire both ways....

    I think the commentator sucks.. just saying..... (snuckle, snuckle).... (67 going on 16)......
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    12:48pm
    Well Old Man with all the shenannigens going on in the govt right now, Tony Abbott trying to undermine Malcolm Turnbull, Corey Bernadi leaving, it is no wonder they are being , as you say, unmercifully. I think it was, but correct me if I am wrong, Tony Abbott who said, "If you can't govern your party how can you govern the country".
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    12:50pm
    The word bashed should have followed the word unmercifully in the comment above.
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    1:12pm
    There goes Misty, running the labor/union line.
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    1:32pm
    Sorry if you don't like it Frank but the Libs have been out in force today condemning Tony Abbott's comments last night on The Bolt Report.
    Anonymous
    24th Feb 2017
    2:05pm
    What you say may be right Misty but I'm curious as to why you haven't addressed my comments. If you're not a politician, you seem to have some of the qualifications. Confronted with something you don't have an answer for, just change the subject and attack the government.
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    2:24pm
    I don't disagree with your comments Old Man except for the bit about govt bashing, I think they deserve it at the moment and no I am not a politician, I am a 79, soon to turn 80, retired from the workforce for the last 15 years mum just interested in politics and seeing everyone gets a fair go which doesn't seem to be happening now. By the way Old Man do you have any answers to the problems affecting our country today?, I would be pleased to hear them if you feel like sharing.
    Anonymous
    24th Feb 2017
    2:39pm
    There you go again Misty, change the subject when you don't like the question but this time, just for a bit of fun, throw in a personal attack. You claim to like seeing everyone gets a fair go but, in this instance, you are prepared to bash the government when they had nothing to do with the Fair Work Australia's decision. Is that fair?
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    4:37pm
    Old Man where in my reply have I changed the subject and where have I personally attacked you?, I am not bashing the govt over the Fair Work decision, read my comment again Old Man, I said that in the comment above, it is the disharmony and in fighting going on in the govt that I am commenting on.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    6:08pm
    Misty - did you ever see the play 'The Removalists'? It ends with two cops called to hoist a bloke out of his own home bashing each other to cover up the fact that they bashed him for no reason and killed him......

    Kinda rings a bell.....
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    6:11pm
    I think what we have here is a failure to communicate - Misty and OM seem to be pretty much on the same page, but personal feelings are getting in the way.

    Re 'The Removalists' - I meant that to show that it is this government bashing itself up - nobody else need intervene - just watch the fun.
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    6:49pm
    I'm afraid Old Man you have lost me I don't know what you are going on about, if anyone else reading my replies to Old Man thinks I am changing the subject(What subject?) and also attacking him personally please let me know where it states that in the replies above and I will apologise.
    KSS
    24th Feb 2017
    9:51pm
    Yes Misty you ARE changing the subject. You have not uttered one word in response to the post by Old Man that points out the truth and chronology of the Fair Work Commission decision. Yet you drag Mr Abbott and Mr Turnbull into your usual rant against the Government. Why are you not condemning Mr Shorten for demanding the Fair Work Commission investigate penalty rates in the first place and then hand picking the Commissioner to do so?
    Misty
    24th Feb 2017
    10:01pm
    KSS you are another narrow minded Coalition supporter who doesn't know what they are talking about, if you read my comment above in reply to Old Mans first post I said the only thing I disagreed with was the fact that I think the current Federal Govt deserves a bashing when they are so divided and dissfunctional, you only have to see the sniping that goes on from Tony Abbott to realise that, if not you have your head in the sand or am living on another planet.
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    10:12pm
    Does anyone think Tony Abbott would come back? I mean honestly, if we were to ask him? What's your opinion?
    Misty
    25th Feb 2017
    9:55am
    The people at the Paul Murray show in Queensland this week, when asked who they wanted as PM, 3 hands for Malcolm, a few for Pauline, 1 for Bill S, 1 for Julie B and about 170 of the 200 there wanted Tony Abbott back again, hope this result is not indicitive of what the rest of Australia wants.
    Anonymous
    26th Feb 2017
    6:06pm
    Oh dear! That's scary!
    TREBOR
    26th Feb 2017
    7:54pm
    Not really, Rainey - it's very satisfying to know that the potential for leadership in that party is so dismally low that so many would even consider Uncle To for a return engagement.

    The difference between the Liberal Party and the Titanic are miniscule - both provide fine entertainment as they go under....
    Adrianus
    26th Feb 2017
    10:12pm
    Thanks for your encouraging words Misty. I think he was the best PM since Howard.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2017
    10:51am
    Misty the talk on the street has Tony back as PM already so it's only a matter of time.
    Misty
    27th Feb 2017
    2:47pm
    Well good luck with that idea, after todays poll and the dismal results for the Coalition I don't think much of their chances with either PM.
    tj
    24th Feb 2017
    12:41pm
    Great news ,with all the money saved David Jones could have a larger marquee at the Melbourne spring carnival race meeting this year along with even more extravagant fashion parades
    Foxy
    24th Feb 2017
    5:34pm
    lol - yeah - good one! Joke!
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    6:12pm
    WHAT????? No Corporate Box? Where will Corrmit de Frogge and Asbestos Julie sit and drink in A/C comfort?
    Oliva
    24th Feb 2017
    12:55pm
    A wage Cut for low paid workers means more profit for the corporates-hire more staff?-hell no! Now lets see if we can cut pollies wages-and make more profit for the country.
    sunnyOz
    24th Feb 2017
    4:27pm
    Totally agree - not for one second do I believe business will hire more staff. No - they will get existing staff to work more, and pocket the savings.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    6:13pm
    Halve politician salary and put them on refund for genuine government related expenses - see how many stick with the job.....
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    1:10pm
    In light of recent events (No pun intended about Clean Events) The Greens are considering putting a bill before Parliament and hoping to have the support of Labor. Maybe amalgamating the United Nations with FairWork? This would line up the planets for the two parties, they would have UNFairWork but with WHO on first base?
    Yes Bill it was your baby and we know you're disappointed about losing control over an "independent" body.
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    6:14pm
    Who are The Greens? (that should settle it).....
    Adrianus
    25th Feb 2017
    10:45am
    When they find out I'm sure they will let us know.
    Franky
    24th Feb 2017
    2:32pm
    I have been working in tourism for 16 years and have never had any penalty rats. I applaud this move, as our lifestyle has changed and Sunday is not what it used to be with everything open.
    Jess M
    24th Feb 2017
    2:40pm
    It depends what job you have in tourism and if you are well paid.
    These people are taking a pay cut and they are the lowest paid workers in our community.
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    3:36pm
    they are only the lowest paid workers in our community if you compare their pay to public servants. Actually there are many, many people who would love to be paid so well. How would you like $40 or $50 per hour?
    If a worker on $50 per hour works Saturday and Sunday he earns $800.
    The worker wheeled out (no not the Labor party member from Woolies) by Bill Shorten said she earns $600 per week and stood to lose $80. While she was raving about petrol prices and food etc., I was doing a mental calculation. She would need to be paid $75 per hour to be losing $80.
    HA HA HA!! funny man Bill Shorten.
    Jess M
    24th Feb 2017
    4:43pm
    why would you want to see anyones wages cut Frank. We all cut our cloth according to our wages. These people have commitments made on what they have been earning and you seem pleased that they will now struggle. That's not what us Aussies are like. eh Frank!
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    6:18pm
    It's not calculated over the week - it's taken from the penalty rates.... when was the last time a business argued the weekly cost of a wage instead of the 'burden' of penalty rates?

    I previously stated that a business with any brain would calculate the cost of wages over a week - not so according to them - penalty times were an imposition. Now they want to say the loss to the employee is over a week?

    What about the single mother who only works Saturday and Sunday, earning enough to chop out her social security?

    You are a heartless bunch.... some of you.

    Trebor for Fair Trade Commissioner...
    Adrianus
    24th Feb 2017
    6:32pm
    Nobody likes to see people fall on hard times, including me. I've seen far too many small businesses go bust because of high overheads and red tape. Our small enterprises are the canary in the mine. They are struggling, some working 7 days per week for much less than they pay staff for 4 days. The sooner we get these overheads down the better off we will all be. Many of these workers are not Australians they are on working holidays or student visas. I'm a battler, but that does not make me dishonest or lacking empathy. What Bill Shorten is doing is dishonest and he needs to be called out on it!
    JessM you can tell your grandkids why they are paying very high taxes and getting much lower wages because of a massive debt that we built up by being "us Aussies."
    TREBOR
    26th Feb 2017
    7:56pm
    Have to agree on red tape - try opening a roadside stall for your excess produce. Bloody heat wave - got virtually no beans and seems to have demolished my tomatoes early - cut and slash and keep the green parts of the vines...

    24th Feb 2017
    5:25pm
    Penalty rates are a stupid idea
    About time the whole silly notion was scrapped altogether

    Business should be able to decide how and how much they compensate an employee who is willing to work weekends
    End of
    Jess M
    24th Feb 2017
    5:41pm
    Yes, we all know the companies like 7 eleven, and many pizza places, and companies not paying super. They are just some of the ones we know about.
    Read some history of what employers used to pay workers before unions and/or any regulations.
    Employers couldn't make money without workers. We need a fair distribution of the wealth they make.
    Foxy
    24th Feb 2017
    5:43pm
    ... you never said that in your "Meeting Place" posts - lol - how come??? You were all for the decision made yesterday ....funny that??????? Trying to "look good' amongst the "masses"? lol lol

    BTW - hope some of you "peeps" signed at least ONE of the many "change.org" petitions that desperate people have put online in the past 24 hours...thousands have signed so far - to help these people that need it most ........

    .....strange how the "haves" in this world - always want to take it from the "have not's"!!! Appalling!!!!
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    6:19pm
    Raphael - fascism alive and well.....
    TREBOR
    26th Feb 2017
    7:57pm
    .. the Gauleiter or business operator will decide what is good and what is bad for the worker! All the workers need do is salute in the Caesarian style on command....
    Anonymous
    26th Feb 2017
    11:00pm
    Facism, Cearer ??

    that's silly emotive talk

    The employer will have to pay what it takes to get someone to work on weekends

    The market will decide

    Penalty rates create artificial cost pressures that are unsustainable.

    And you wonder why jobs are lost overseas
    niemakawa
    24th Feb 2017
    5:41pm
    So we can expect prices for restaurant food and drinks to reduce in line with the pay cuts for the staff.!!! Of course I am dreaming. How will the Government make up for the shortfall in tax revenue that surely will ensue? As ABBA sing "the winner takes it all, the winner takes it all".
    TREBOR
    24th Feb 2017
    6:20pm
    Don't hold your breath - the owner will buy a newer Maserati or Merc to offset as a tax concession....
    Wstaton
    24th Feb 2017
    6:34pm
    Funny, I didn't think this was about giving customers a discount.
    niemakawa
    24th Feb 2017
    7:10pm
    Wstaton. I did say I was dreaming. Of course one would expect reduced prices, so in effect it is about giving discounts.
    Mick
    24th Feb 2017
    6:03pm
    To me we are all missing the bigger picture.
    The sad thing is we all want to pay lower prices for everything from clothes to cars and food etc but we need to remember this all comes at a cost short and long term.For me i started work in Jan 1979 as a apprentice ,$74 a week low wages but happy ,most of us had jobs and yes things did cost more Vs today comparisons but most of the things we brought was made here in this great country meaning jobs for a lot of us and our kids and grand kids & going out for a meal was a treat.Fast forward to now and most of our base industries are gone eg steel making,textiles,car making and even our farmers are copping it with cheap imports etc etc .i understand we are moving to a so called "global economy" but at what cost to this country.So long story cut short i would rather pay a extra few dollars to buy a meal,clothes etc etc if it means our people are employed be it penalty rates etc eg if you are not prepared to pay eg 10% extra on a weekend for what ever ,then wait to Monday to Friday to get a take away.
    Anonymous
    25th Feb 2017
    2:19pm
    Well said, Mick. Couldn't agree more.

    I recall a long time ago I was operating a convenience store. A woman came in on Sunday to buy a can of tomatoes because she had unexpected guests to cook for. She objected to the high price and quoted the local supermarket's price. I explained that they didn't open Sundays (this was a long way back when they really didn't) and if she wanted the convenience of shopping on Sunday, she should be prepared to pay a little more for it. I was giving up my weekend so she could feed her guests. Well, on the Monday she came with a can of tomatoes bought from the supermarket that morning and wanted a refund on the can she'd bought the day before!!!!

    Some people just want everything and to pay for nothing! I think that's what's wrong with Australia today. And it mostly at the top end. The rich are hoarding wealth like there is no tomorrow (check how much is stashed in the Caymans!) and refusing to pay their way. And the government is screwing the battlers to cover the short fall.

    I'd love to go back 30 years to when we paid a higher price for most things, and wages weren't high for most of us, but we lived in a much happier society and we were generally optimistic about the future.
    Misty
    25th Feb 2017
    4:51pm
    I do agree Rainey we lived in the best of times then, never felt the need to lock our doors, said hello to passers by, everyone had a job, in fact there were more jobs available then people to work, oh those were the days.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2017
    11:10am
    Rainey I am happier today than I have been and the future does not look bleak to me at all. There are more opportunities than ever before and I just wish I was younger so I could take advantage of more of them.
    Adrianus
    27th Feb 2017
    1:20pm
    Rainey, you are right about that! "Some people just want everything and to pay for nothing!"
    floss
    24th Feb 2017
    6:32pm
    Could not agree more Mick pay a little more and give the kids a fair wage is this not the Aussie way,greed is not good.
    rina1213
    24th Feb 2017
    6:46pm
    saying there will be more jobs is a joke ! Do they not understand that if you cut someone's income then they will have to work more shifts and hours and days to make up the $ that has been taken away. They will have to work more to make up the difference. If we cut the pollies wages they are still OK but not so for the working class. Every cent is needed !!!! Not like hospitality and retail are paid much anyway. This is a disgrace !!!! Wake up Australia it's time for people power. This is just the start if nothing is done. How many more will loose ?
    You just can't take people's $ and think its OK when everything is going up and up.
    Mick
    24th Feb 2017
    7:07pm
    Thanks Looney and Rina for agreeing,i just worry about we as a country as to what direction we are heading to for the near and distant future.
    niemakawa
    24th Feb 2017
    7:15pm
    Wherever that maybe it will not be very nice, that is certain. It is now up to the younger generations to take hold of the mantle and hopefully they will listen to the wisdom of the older generation. Unfortunately schools have taken over what used to be the parents' role and see themselves as the guardians and mentors of the children.
    Anonymous
    25th Feb 2017
    2:04pm
    That's scary, niemakawa! Some of the teachers really shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a young person. They are so lacking in common sense and respect that they should be labelled a ''public danger''.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2017
    11:02am
    Yes Rainey schools now check kids lunch boxes and parents get nasty notes if they consider the food inappropriate. Glad I'm not packing kids lunches any more because I would pack twice as much of the wrong food the next day with a very stern note.
    Misty
    25th Feb 2017
    10:22am
    Seems like the Coalition is going down the same path as Labor did Frank, didn't they learn anything from that debacle?.
    Adrianus
    25th Feb 2017
    10:49am
    Misty, surely it cant be the same path. Labor's was a cul de sac and we are still trying to do that 9 point turn. Some power poles need to be dug out and kerbs ripped up but at the end of the day we sleep in the cul de sac.
    Misty
    25th Feb 2017
    10:54am
    But do wee sleep peacefully Frank?.
    LiveItUp
    25th Feb 2017
    12:21pm
    Misty Labor created this mess full of time bombs. All the LNP can do now is defuse the time bombs and clean up the mess but is not getting the support it needs. Country is is big trouble now with big debts so there is no icing on the cake left for anyone. So forget you have a sweet tooth and take your medicine as whinging will only prelong the debackle we are in. Things will get a lot worse before it gets better. So make the most of what you have.
    Misty
    25th Feb 2017
    1:19pm
    What are you going on about Bonny?, with the Coalition in dissaray no one can expect anything good to come about soon.
    Anonymous
    25th Feb 2017
    2:02pm
    Bonny, Howard and Costello did more to create the debt mess than Labor actually. They squandered the surplus handing out to the rich. And this government is continuing the pattern. The country won't recover while this inequity continues. We need people to have incentive to work and ability to spend. Giving it all to multi-national businesses and rich people who stash their wealth in the Caymans is a recipe for disaster - and we are seeing that disaster. I have mixed views on penalty rates, having been on both sides of the fence at times, but what I do know is that if we keep cutting incomes of low to middle income earners and transferring wealth to the rich, we will continue to see major economic problems and growing national debt.
    Yes, it will get worse before it gets better, because some fools seem to think there's merit in the policies of a government that screws the majority to indulge the wealthy. Some even think ''trickle down'' works!
    You are wrong about whinging though. Whinging is good. We need to let the power-brokers know that what we stand for and what will happen to them at the next election if they don't deliver for the people.
    Adrianus
    25th Feb 2017
    3:02pm
    Yes of course Rainey ha ha ha ha!!! Howard and Costello. 10 years ago the best PM and Treasurer of our time without a doubt.
    What about Billy McMahon? in 1971 he pulled our troops out of Vietnam. Do you remember him? maybe we could blame him for the state we're in ha ha ha ha you are funny. :)
    Anonymous
    26th Feb 2017
    6:09pm
    I'm not funny, Frank. Clearly you are ill-informed. It's well known and documented that Howard and Costello blew the surplus gifting generously, and 80% of the handouts were to the well-off. Labor inherited a lot of obligations that were hard to unwind and impossible to meet without running up debt.

    Interestingly, the Howard/Costello surplus was very close to the amount yielded from selling off infrastructure and national resources.

    They were good at boasting and bluffing, but they weren't nearly as good at running the nation as many believed.
    TREBOR
    26th Feb 2017
    8:04pm
    Boney - give the old 'Labor did it' a rest - your beloved LNP have held the reins for nearly four years and they've totally stuffed it.

    Delusional, Frank....

    McMahon had nothing to do with troops withdrawals - the War had been winding down since 1968 - incidentally the highest year for US casualties AFTER trashing the NVA/VC during the Tet offensive.

    It was then that the US government decided to close down its commitment and that process began well before McMahon.

    Costalot our best Treasurer? Profligate spender and installed time bomb that have been going off almost daily these days - blew the social security concept out to about three times its established parameters, paying fat cat chicks to dump their kids or hire a nanny, before retiring into riches on top of his overfat 'pension'
    Adrianus
    26th Feb 2017
    10:16pm
    Rainey, did you add the Future Fund into your calculations?
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2017
    10:58am
    Rainey anything Howard and Costello created as time bombs are very insignificant than the ones Labor put in place. That NDIS has to be the biggest time bomb of them all with the cream being skimmed off so much along the way that the people who supposed to benefit get very little. Home care is another one with the bulk of the money going to so called providers. Gonski trying to teach elephants to climb trees is another waste of money as elephants push trees over they don't climb them. The money needs to go where it is needed not where it is syphoned off instead. RTOs is another one that's a complete waste too. Unfortunately there are many others as well.
    Adrianus
    27th Feb 2017
    1:14pm
    Rainey, I agree. It was so hard for Labor. You have to feel sorry for them. They were out of their depth. The cabinet was full of Bill Shorten's and Julia Gillard's ex's.
    It was a very emotional time.
    I recall when Nicola Roxon resigned she eluded to not being as tough as Julia.
    They all shed a tear or two. I'm still haunted by the sight of Kevin Rudd having a sob, not to mention all the drownings. That was the last straw for some of them.
    Bob Brown never told them about that I bet?
    It was probably wrong of us to throw Labor into office at that time. They had so much to deal with and only about 4 years of mining boom left. Anyway, we should give them another crack when the debt is cleared again.
    JAID
    25th Feb 2017
    1:33pm
    It is a start and would be much fairer were there no penalty rates at all. What a corrupted system and view we have that any penalty rates exist at all.

    No person should be forced to work days they cannot agree in advance. If, however you are prepared to take a job which will involve work on days which are the weekend to some, you have made no compromise, you are simply prepared to work. Work is good.

    We are a secular society. Most Australians don't believe more than nominally in a creator and not all creators are bowed down to on the same day. If you do need to observe some sort of religious fiat on a certain day of the week then sort it out with your employer; negotiate, sell your benefit. Swap days. The employer makes no more for a Sunday than a Wednesday.

    All this rubbish about having ones income depleted by this small percentage reduction in what is an unfair advantage creepily legislated for is nothing but greed and failure to communicate. You expect more for your time than someone else and you are not prepared to justify the case for your personal income advantage.

    Sadly, the predominance of the weekend in Australian life means that there are people who give up a lot by working on those days. Well, join the real world, move jobs and work when it is convenient, . Let the system adjust and become equitable. Let us, in the face of vast overpayment for staff and services by government, in the face of wonton legislated support of certain professional incomes and certain suppliers, the extravagance of financial services incomes which come with minimal productive impact and the extreme poverty and universality of our perceptive quality as buyers, let us get one step closer to a competitive stance in the world without the abstraction of gross theft of resources which would remain available to the future.
    Misty
    25th Feb 2017
    4:40pm
    JAID some of what you write I agree with but not the bit about ,"moove jobs and work when it is convenient", sometimes because of location, job availability, family commitments, health, transport etc it is not always possible for a person to do this, you have to take what job you can, taking into consideration all those things I have listed here and hopefully stay with it for as long as possible or until circumstances change.
    JAID
    25th Feb 2017
    5:46pm
    Yes Misty,

    The pace of change can be hurtful, sometimes faster than necessary. In that light this is a good start, a gentle reduction in the extravagance of penalty rates.

    This could trend to a gradual end to rates of pay dictated by what largely politically hand-picked and over-paid adjudicators think other people should get based on what they think it takes to live rather than what they are worth. A gentle sway from the present which would only be a way to run an economy which can get away with and desires to radically abuse the future.

    Wage setting has gone a long way toward rendering ours a command economy with also a meek only appreciation of the impact of competitive production on general wealth and occupation. Beyond our now traditional gross mishandling of work we back all this with a magnificent health and social security system. We may not object to that and we could appreciate that it is a very good counterbalance to incapacity, able to be a respond to real need and the quality of life we seek for our citizens; much better than the direct fiddling of working incomes.

    In our people we should trust. They are not babies, they are working economic units with their own aims and perhaps the most equal opportunity that the world has seen.
    TREBOR
    26th Feb 2017
    8:20pm
    What about a gentle reduction in salaries, starting with politicians ans senior public servants? Or do you imagine that a salary is somehow exempt from any reductions?
    JAID
    26th Feb 2017
    9:25pm
    I reckon there are plenty of silly salaries many ridiculously high and many low Trebor.

    I think we have a social security system to charge with ensuring that people have sufficient to maintain health and dignity and that otherwise it is crazy to let other than the market determine price/cost and naturally pay. We do not do that but even if we did that would not be working any where near well in terms of the productive capacity of this country, in terms of elimination of waste or in the best deployment and satisfaction available to the workforce ie. citizens.

    We have strayed wildly but we need to act quickly to develop focus on:
    - Our global competitiveness
    - What it takes to maximise the confidence and skill potential of all individuals
    - Development of a truly mobile workforce
    - Awareness that every individual is an economic unit
    Requiring negotiation and responsibility for selling their own strengths.
    - Developing savy in all of us as buyers.
    The awareness which will have us not pay idiotic sums for goods and services.
    - Leanness, awareness and creativity
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2017
    11:08am
    Like sportsman people with sort after skills should be rewarded well. I left the workforce because I was working for a boss that made many times what I was paid and it was the best thing I ever did.
    Misty
    27th Feb 2017
    2:52pm
    Rubbish OG, why should sportsman people, your words, be rewarded any more then another person with the same skills?.
    Adrianus
    27th Feb 2017
    3:14pm
    Misty, I can answer that.
    Why should sports people earn more than others with the same skills?
    Because they use those skills. Simple as that.
    You expect to get paid because you have skills without using them??
    Really Misty.
    Adrianus
    27th Feb 2017
    3:24pm
    I may add Misty. It's a simple 4 step process.
    You train, you recognise opportunities, you expose yourself to those opportunities, you walk the walk, talk the talk, fake it til you make it. It's not easy but if you don't follow your dream what else is there?
    Misty
    27th Feb 2017
    3:44pm
    What sort of an answer is that Frank?, it doesn't make any sense, how do you know if the people who have the same skills as a sports person, do or don't use their skills in the same way?, and who knows maybe an even better way and thus earn more then the sports person.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2017
    6:36pm
    Misty if a person has skills in demand why can't they get paid well for them? I have a son who virtually writes his own pay cheque and why shouldn't he?
    Retired Knowall
    27th Feb 2017
    6:54pm
    Misty, you need to educate yourself on basic business principals.
    There is a difference between having a skill and being able to apply that skill in a satisfactory manner to produce an economical outcome.
    This is where your Union Drones just don't get it. They believe that all trades should be paid the same, if one guy works harder, it makes the Drones look bad so they gang up on him and make him slow down. If the Boss wants to reward the harder worker the Union Drones object and maintain everyone should get the same.
    Just like junior sports today where every child gets the same reward no matter how little they tried.
    Misty
    27th Feb 2017
    7:11pm
    Good on your son OG I am sure he is worth every penny he receives, Retired Knowall it works both ways, I know you will always find lazy workers in all jobs but what you have to realise that when the unions negotiated better pay and conditions those workers who never paid a penny to join a union were happy to put their hand out for the better pay and conditions too.
    Misty
    27th Feb 2017
    7:12pm
    Goodness Retired Knowall what a bitter person you seem from your comments here.
    Retired Knowall
    27th Feb 2017
    7:37pm
    The truth hurts huh?
    I'm not bitter, I have NEVER been a member of a union as I've seen what goes on every day in industry where good people are hamstrung by union boofheads.
    I am quite content to let my skills and ability secure my living.
    Oliva
    26th Feb 2017
    7:21pm
    Its a pay cut pure and simple. Now can the pollies do a pay cut on their own awards?
    Adrianus
    27th Feb 2017
    1:28pm
    Oliva, it was not the politicians who made the call. It was the public service.
    KIS
    27th Feb 2017
    12:41pm
    If it is fair to the lowest paid industries than it ought to be fair to all industries. Why should administrative industries get the benefit of having weekends free to shop when you cannot get decisions on your administrative insurance claims etc.because they have the weekends off? So you have to wait till Monday. Why can admin. get higher penalty rates such as meal & taxi fares for working on weekends yet, the retail & hospitality industries have to cater for admin. to have a cuppa. It's so out of balance. Many retail workers cannot get the time to answers on their superannuation or other vital information because the offices are closed after 5pm & they cannot phone before or during the day waiting on long ques. to get administrative stuff ups corrected. What is good for one ought be applied to all including gov't, utilities & insurance offices, to be available & open on weekends & evenings just as much as the lowest paid employees. That means all industries & management should be employed & on duty weekdays & weekends. If it applied to all industries, this would create more jobs.
    Plus, students need the Sunday penalties to pay their rent & mothers need the Sunday penalty rates to compensate for not being able to attend school committee meetings & weekend sporting events.
    Misty
    27th Feb 2017
    2:40pm
    Yes KIS and also to compensate for time away from their children when they work weekends.

    27th Feb 2017
    4:07pm
    The policy behind penalty rates represents a failure to recognise the requirements of a diversity of businesses and their own unique workable terms and conditions of employment. The current penalty rates regimen inhibits economic growth by providing a disincentive to employers from having longer trading hours or offering staff additional hours.
    Adrianus
    27th Feb 2017
    5:27pm
    Rapheal, The previous RBA Governor, Glenn Stevens pretty much agreed with your point. He referred to the export trade agreements so skilfully and arduously put together by the government in saying that OZ businesses need to be more flexible in order to take advantage of these new opportunities.
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2017
    9:26pm
    never liked old Glen.
    he kept rates too high for too long . A$ is still too strong in my opinion . Rates should be cut 50 points at least.

    On the other hand he was bang on target on penalty rates issue.
    Adrianus
    28th Feb 2017
    10:07pm
    A skilfull governor would jawbone it down rather than fuel a res RE bubble.
    Retired Knowall
    28th Feb 2017
    1:13pm
    I'm surprised the God Botherers haven't chimed in and told their story book says their God said that Sunday is the day of rest, so everyone should not work on that day.....full stop.
    Anonymous
    28th Feb 2017
    4:05pm
    I think it's sad that we no longer have a day of rest, for religious reasons or otherwise. It was a social benefit, in my opinion. Life has gotten just too fast-paced.
    Retired Knowall
    28th Feb 2017
    4:33pm
    Nothing stopping you, if you need/want to have a day of rest, go for it.
    I just object to have any others persons Beliefs/Dogmas attempted to be applied to me.
    Anonymous
    28th Feb 2017
    4:39pm
    dont be daft Rainey
    those who work on Sunday can have another day off.

    penalty rates for Sundays is just rubbish. Time to get rid of it

    get with the 21st century
    LiveItUp
    1st Mar 2017
    8:09am
    Gee most on this forum would already have 7 days of rest and they want another one?

    If I had a job I'd love tomwork Sundays as that day of rest is nothing but boring as I like to keep busy doing things not giving my time away resting. Life is way too short for that.
    Adrianus
    1st Mar 2017
    8:29am
    Bonny, the hours for employees are reducing, the conditions and wages have improved. Meanwhile the same cannot be said about the small business operator. The guy who makes those jobs possible. Quite often you find him working on Sunday (and every other day) not for double time, but for survival because he has risked everything. His bank is nervous. The pressure is mounting and he does what he can.