Tensions high in East China Sea

China declared that the Diaoyu islands now fall under its air defence identification zone.

Tensions high in East China Sea, Diaoyu islands, Senkaku islands, China, United States, US, Japan, Australia, Ms Bishop, Julie Bishop, irresponsible, relations, free-trade

A territorial dispute between Japan and China over a cluster of islands known as Senkaku in Tokyo and Diaoyu in Beijing has escalated into a war of words this week, after China declared that the islands would now fall under its air defence identification zone and it would assert its air rights over the islands.

The group of islands located 120 nautical miles off Taiwan were annexed by Japan in 1895 from Chinese control. They then switched hands to the United States Government in 1945 before being handed back to the Japanese government in 1972. Studies have found oil and gas reserves in the seas surrounding the islands.

The US showed its hand this week by intentionally flying two B-52 bombers over the airspace as a clear warning that it would push back against China’s aggressive stance to take back control over the islands.

Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop came out in support of Japan and the United States by echoing their thoughts on the matter. The Chinese government responded by labelling Ms Bishop’s remarks as “irresponsible”.

"It is completely a mistake for Australia to make irresponsible remarks on China's establishment of an air defence identification zone in the East China Sea, and the Chinese side will not accept it," foreign ministry spokesman Qin Gang said. "China urges Australia to correct its mistake immediately to prevent damaging Sino-Australia relations."

Read more from the Sydney Morning Herald.
Read more from The Guardian.

Opinion: Standing firm on our resolve

Last month Prime Minister Tony Abbott declared that Japan was Australia’s “best friend” in Asia and with the United States backing Japan in this territorial matter, Ms Bishop’s comments were on money. China has been the ‘bully’ of the region for the last decade and its claims to the islands and airspace are simply unfounded.

Ms Bishop is imminently set to visit Australia’s largest trading partner China, to conduct talks which are expected to include the much talked about free trade deal which the Abbott government has been pushing for. Ms Bishop’s recent comments could potentially sour talks and delay the implementation of such an agreement, but Ms Bishop this morning said on Sky News that she doesn’t believe they will.

The real question I keep asking myself on this matter is why did we have to say anything at all? It’s noble to show support for our key allies by condemning the actions of China, but does the condemnation from our country even matter on the global stage when countries such as Japan, China and the United States are involved? I don’t think so.

Ms Bishop’s comments signal a new style of foreign relations in Australia where we aren’t afraid to step on a few toes to stand up for what is right and to have the backs of our key allies in the region.

What do you think? Was Ms Bishop right to condemn the actions of China or should she not have said anything at all and let the United States and Japan do all the talking? Should we be taking our relationship with China more seriously?





    COMMENTS

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    Aloysius
    28th Nov 2013
    11:22am
    The islands in question are of no strategic interest to Australia and probably not to the USA, China or Japan. It is not in Australia's interest to get involved in this issue and to put any of those nations offside. Australia is a minnow in this group and can win nothing by getting involved. We do not need to buy friendship as such a bought-friendship is unreliable. Every nation will act in its own interest.
    Anonymous
    28th Nov 2013
    11:27am
    yep - agree.
    we should just mind our own business.
    Foxy
    28th Nov 2013
    11:44am
    What next? Pakistan?
    Actual Cat
    28th Nov 2013
    12:20pm
    Totally agree and well said Aloysius.
    Wstaton
    28th Nov 2013
    12:47pm
    I thought that the main problem is that their is believed to be oil somewhere around these islands.

    I do not think we should just mind our own business in everything that is ogf no value to use. What about our humane values when other countries are being subjugated by force and human rights are being performed.
    Grateful
    28th Nov 2013
    12:59pm
    Totally agree with all comments. What are we trying to prove? Such arrogance, such ignorance, such embarrassment!!
    China and indonesia are Australia's economic lifelines, our future for years to come and within 91 days we are doing everything possible to destroy everything that we have worked so hard to achieve.
    All that we are doing is making fools of ourselves while our new "kids" on the block show off their new found "power".
    Three more years of this and where will it all end? Julie Bishop is way out of her depth (compare gher with Hilliary Clinton etc) and should stick to shopping for new outfits and sipping champagne at her hairdressing salon. And as for Tony, well, let's just hope that SBY has a quiet word of experince in his ear. Could be worse, imagine Christopher Pyne as Tony and Julie's Defence Minister!! Wow, even his mates want his throat!!!
    How long will they survive? Bet that 49.999% of caucus who voted against him are re-doing the numbers!!!!
    Maybe Tony is jealous of the tiltle that he gave Labor as the worst government in history and wants that title to put on his mantlepiece to admire with all of his sporting trophies.
    Grateful
    28th Nov 2013
    1:03pm
    Was printing mine before Wstaton's was posted. This is NONE of our business, period!!! They don't award St Christopher medals in world politics.
    Anonymous
    29th Nov 2013
    9:04pm
    my comment seems to have disappeared…. hiccup, one should hope.

    Anyway Aloysius, your comment is a good one. I did have a longer comment but it is reflected in my comments below now, so, I will just say that IF Australia was an independent sovereign nation, we would be questioning the USA's motive for provoking Japan & China by flying war planes over disputed territory.

    Anything else is, as those above has stated, none of our business, unless we offer assistance to mediate the dispute. Not fly WAR PLANES over other countries territory and provoke and turn a dispute into something a lot, lot worse.

    Another question by an independent sovereign nation, may be to the USA, asking them WHY they would fly their WAR PLANES over foreign airspace to PROVOKE further problems between Japan & China…. What value is it to the USA to have these two nations in conflict? There are numerous answers to this, given the USA's current economic situation BUT it would mean another very long passage and I don't think people are that interested.
    surfer
    2nd Dec 2013
    10:54am
    Thank the lord for that Mustibait. All we need now is for you to disappear.
    Wstaton
    28th Nov 2013
    12:59pm
    I think China is tarting to act like other countries who thought they could take on the world. They should learn by history, (i.e Germany, Japan etc) They are starting to push the boundaries such as even trying for islands that are only a few miles from the Phillipinnes.

    But they have a big problem. If they suddenly got a lot more aggressive then the fuel that is improving their economy will suddenly stop. This would lead to massive unrest by the rising well off.

    Sure we may suffer because of exports then again we may end up better off because the products inported from China would stop and we will have to start buying our own..

    We will just have to see.
    moorlands
    28th Nov 2013
    3:54pm
    Agree Wstaton, but the reason Australian living standards are so high is dependent on the lower living standards and wages of those importers, if we start buying our own then wages will have to go up, then the producers wages will follow, then prices will go up, so our wages will have to go up, then the producers wages will have to go up,and then..........
    Grateful
    28th Nov 2013
    4:35pm
    Moorlands, I reckon that we are there now. We have simply had our collective snouts in the trough for too long and have nearly priced ourselves out of all competition. The "lucky country" has been too benevolent and I have absolutely no doubt that all countries that compete with us will take us to the cleaners. We WILL end up being what has been threatened for so long, a quarry!!
    We MUST immediately take a scythe to middle class welfare, award wages that were set during our golden era but are now totally unsustainable, smash negative gearing benefits from rich speculators who have sent prices so high, so we can again enable our first home buyers to buy a home and tax super profits from miners and banks, so, we can all share in what wealth there is left.
    And companies in Australia that actually produce for domestic consumption, beef, dairy, fruit and vegetables and grain, are all at risk of being owned by overseas countries. And, what about our housing, apartments, factories, farms etc that are being swallowed up by foreigners?
    We need a huge wake up call because we will all pay the price if we don't get it right very soon. But, being smart arse with Indonesia and China is not the way to go about it.
    moorlands
    30th Nov 2013
    3:25pm
    This is a couple of days later, but I was talking to a Qantas Manager at the club and I suggested that Qantas was top heavy and had priced itself out of the market, now bear in mind that she told me she started working for Qantas ten years ago as a check in agent after leaving high school, her frosty reply was that everyone is entitled to a career path, and the wages they received were far from generous. I questioned as to how many Managerial jobs were available, her reply was that Qantas regularly offer redundancies thus making room for the upcoming, is this a racket or what? I will come to the point, If this is the attitude of Qantas staff even in the face of Qantas,s dire straits, especially the Engineers and Pilots, then why should the taxpayer be propping up this sense of entitlement. It was suggested earlier that the Government ie; Taxpayer would reap the reward of the "Investment "? by the return of dividends, I would suggest looking at at value of those dividends and the tumbling share price.
    Julius
    28th Nov 2013
    2:11pm
    Having return recently after 8 years living in Hong Kong and Beijing, may I suggest that kow towing to China or any other nation, is not in the best interest of Australia. Losing respect or face in an Asian culture is a cardinal sin. We must be firm and respectful to the mandarins of the Middle Kingdom. Australia is not a minnow, it is a respected country in the world's political forum. Today the Senkaku or Diayou to-morrow?? History has a habit of repeating itself.
    Anonymous
    28th Nov 2013
    3:11pm
    dont be silly, we have new zealand, then east timor, tonga, nauru, png, .....

    seriously that island has been going on for decades. on what basis is Bishop siding with the Japanese ?
    Grateful
    28th Nov 2013
    3:21pm
    Well she has just sided with Israel over the West Bank stand off with Palestine. When was that a Coalition policy? For heaven's sake, talk about China trying to "take on the world". And as for being a "respected country", boy, is that going out the window with every foot in mouth.
    moorlands
    28th Nov 2013
    3:43pm
    Have to disagree Grateful, Australia WAS a respected country during the GFC under ALP leadership when we took an unbiased stand between China and the USA, but now we are looking like fools hiding behind the skirts of our big brother.
    Grateful
    28th Nov 2013
    4:21pm
    Moorlands. I don't know about you, but, I can't believe my own eyes and ears at the moment. Our P.M. being beligerent towards Indonesia, our Foreign Minister being beligerent towards China, both Australia's Ambassadors to those countries being called in to please explain, then siding with Israel to abstain from voting on the West Bank issue, withdrawing our long standing support of Palestine's position. When was the last Australian Ambassador called in by a foreign country and now twice in a week!!!
    We have Christopher Pyne AND Tony Abbott reneging on an absolute election PROMISE over education payments, upsetting even Liberal Premiers, Joe Hockey giving no leadership in the Warrnambool Cheese and Butter Company issue, with the strong risk of it being taken over by a Canadian company, then giving sympathy to Quantas not being able to be controlled by overseas airlines to enable it to "compete equally with Virgin Airlines" and offering "incentives" to all states that want to privatise any of their state owned assets.
    What the hell is going on? It is like having a bull being locked in a pen and now all that testosterone is being released. Incredible.
    I'm just wondering what the rest of the coalition caucus members are thinking, because they are damn well not being allowed to say anything. I am definitely expecting some real gaffes coming out very soon when those members release their exasperation at what they, too, are seeing and hearing. And they crucified Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard?? I can't even imagine what the Herald Sun's front pages would be like if Rudd and Gillard were carrying on like this new lot.
    Anonymous
    29th Nov 2013
    2:21am
    Julius

    I hear what you are saying BUT we are discussing this FROM the USA's PROPAGANDA viewpoint which is totally wrong!

    IF we looked at this situation as an INDEPENDENT sovereign nation, Australia would be asking the big and important questions…. WHY are the USA there at all…. FLYING WAR PLANES over a disputed foreign territory causing SERIOUS ill-will and dissension between the two disputing countries!!

    China & Japan are quite capable of dealing with their own issues and resolving this dispute.

    Australia could offer assistance to mediate this situation if either of the nations required assistance BUT to accept the USA flying war planes over disputed FOREIGN territory when the relationship between the disputing parties is SENSITIVE, is very close to an act of war!


    If Australia was INDEPENDENT we would NOT be calling China a bully when the USA fit the title of BULLY, a lot more aptly!
    surfer
    2nd Dec 2013
    10:57am
    Pity Mr. Mussitate/Moorlands is the same person and has confused himself. Watch out as he is a very knowledgeable fellow on everything. Nothing he does not give his opinion on. A know it all full of confusion. He does not know what his real name is.
    KSS
    28th Nov 2013
    2:30pm
    Agree Julius I too spent years living in Asia. Australia must get over worrying about what the neighbours think. Australia is entitled to have its opinion in matters that affect the region given we are in fact a big player here. Be respectful, be diplomatic but stand up for what you believe in and support 'friends' against bullies. This is a provocative act by China not only to Japan but to the area. Cool heads are needed but they must be made to understand provocation is in no-one's interest.
    Anonymous
    29th Nov 2013
    1:19am
    BUT… it is the USA who is flying WAR planes in FOREIGN airspace over territories that are disputed by Japan & China.

    WHY is the USA there at ALL! To cause dissent between the two countries who already have a very sensitive relationship, given the millions of Chinese who were slaughtered mercilessly by the Japanese during the war.

    It would definitely be in the USA's interest to stir up China & Japan and cause SERIOUS dissension and trouble.

    SO, why is Australia supporting the USA BULLIES and BEARERS of ILL WILL?!?
    Grateful
    29th Nov 2013
    8:56am
    '"All the way with LBJ"!!!!
    Korean War, Vietnam War, Iraq, Afghanistan, what more do we have to do to prove our "Friendship" to the U.S.??
    Shoot ourselves in the foot again by alienating ourselves with THE most powerful country in our immediate future?
    Add that to "years" before we resume "normal" relations with Indonesia and we must all stand up and say enough ( after just 91 days!!!).
    Anonymous
    29th Nov 2013
    9:09pm
    Grateful
    You don't muck about…. hear you…. and agree!
    unicorn
    28th Nov 2013
    3:10pm
    Who is next to say Australia needs to grow up? For heaven's sake don't tell me that all politicians are useless. Can't anybody choose a government that gets on with their job rather than pick up on everything that is said or done & whinge to the world that so and so is nasty to us. Like I said it's a case of "Mummy".
    Foxy
    28th Nov 2013
    7:24pm
    "Mummy" ? Wasn't that Prince Charles? :-) (sorry)
    Tom Tank
    28th Nov 2013
    10:42pm
    Australia was highly once respected in the World community as an honest broker who could be relied upon to be comparatively non-aligned. That finished when we became America's Deputy Sheriff and part of the Coalition that invaded Iraq.
    We have not been able to break away from that perception of us as devout followers of the USA.
    What is happening between China and Japan has nothing to do with us and we should keep out of it. We can think what we like but we should not get embroiled by making statements of support for one side or the other.

    29th Nov 2013
    1:08am
    Why was the USA there at all! It now has nothing to do with them, it is between Japan & China.

    If there is a bully who is trying to stir things up, it would have to be the USA.

    Again…. why the hell is the USA flying war planes over a Chinese/Japanese disputed territory.

    The Japanese slaughtered millions of Chinese in the WAR and for the USA to fly WAR PLANES over an area disputed by these two countries is ludicrous! The USA is actually TRYING to cause dissension and trouble!

    Bishop, is showing herself to be a fool … shadowing Abbott's inept footsteps. Neither seem to understand what the term diplomacy means.

    29th Nov 2013
    2:31am
    I must point out also that we are ALL discussing this FROM the USA's PROPAGANDA viewpoint which is totally wrong!

    IF we looked at this situation as an INDEPENDENT sovereign nation, Australia would be asking the USA to STAND DOWN and DESIST from FLYING WAR PLANES over a disputed foreign territory causing SERIOUS ill-will and dissension between the two disputing countries!

    It is a valid dispute and one that could be resolved, peacefully without the USA chest thumping.

    IF we were and INDEPENDENT sovereign nation, Australia would be informing the USA, that China & Japan are quite capable of dealing with their own issues and resolving this dispute but if these parties should require an INDEPENDENT mediator, Australia would assist.

    If Australia was INDEPENDENT we would NOT be calling China a bully when the USA fit the title of BULLY, a lot more aptly!
    surfer
    2nd Dec 2013
    11:01am
    Now Now Must you rate, Moorlander, Don't please get involved with matters well above you. Just relax and watch your blood pressure.
    Henry
    29th Nov 2013
    8:50am
    I was going to reply to this forum by making everybody know my strong views on this matter, but it has been said and I agree with all comments. What concerns me the most is all the hard work done by others in the past has been erased in such a little time in government. A strong and deep course on international affairs is needed badly here.
    Grateful
    29th Nov 2013
    10:51am
    Drew, you ask, should we stand up for what WE think is right? I am all for standing up when we think something is obviously wrong, but, that is the very essence of this problem, what WE think is right is not always what IS right, when we take completely differing cultures into consideration.

    That is what "diplomacy" is all about, the ability to express YOUR ideas and concerns, WITHOUT upsetting the cultural beliefs and sensitivites of others.
    That is exactly what Julie Bishop and Tony Abbott have failed completely to understand and that is THE problem. When will they learn? Like walking in to break up a fight by punching the person that YOU thought was right when you had no idea how the fight even started. Both actions being totally wrong, but, the person who thought that THEY were doing the right thing resulted in compounding the problem, certainly not "solving" it.
    Just look how the Indonesian mess has developed, from what could have been resolved with a five minute phone call, it "will probably take years" to return us to a "normal" relationship with dozens now involved in "developing protocols"!!!

    At least the good old Nationals are obviously sick and tired of all this mess and Joe Hockey, the one who only a couple of weeks ago, would not be bullied by anyone, anyone, anyone,for that insert, the National Party, has just refused the takeover of Graincorp!!! Placating those that were definitely not wanting to be "united" in that "united" Coalition that Tony raves about.
    Wstaton
    29th Nov 2013
    1:17pm
    I disagree with the Graincorp comment and I am not for the libs.
    For one we are putting our life lines on the line by allowing what seems to be a company who is not quite the corporate citizen we want no matter how much money they are trying to offer.

    Also if one man slavishly goes ahead allowing things like this without taking into account his advisers recommendations also those off some of the other ministers and the party I would be very suspect. It is not all about money. The almighty dollar is causing us to make to many wrong decisions. Look at Qantas. We sold a lot of it off and now look at the trouble it is in because of the squeezing for dividends. We should also take into consideration about having a national carrier. If it was fully owned by foreign interests then what happens in a national emergency and the government sees the need to commandeer the fleets. I can see the foreign owners sticking their finger up at them and keeping most of the fleet based away from Australia.

    Apart from this why is Qantas in trouble, why can't we, beinging the majority owner, offer funds just as the owners of Virgin are doing. This is part of business. We also seem to forget that dividends are paid to the government as well. I would be looking at how the CEO is handling things and if he is worth all the money he is getting paid.

    29th Nov 2013
    11:50pm
    Wstaton …. my response to the issues you raised about Qantas


    QANTAS

    If the FOREIGN ownership rules are removed, then the Qantas BOARD would be controlled even further by FOREIGN interests - mainly FOREIGN airlines, such as VIRGIN & EMIRATES.
    A TOTAL FIRFY that removing the foreign ownership limit would benefit Qantas and help it compete with VIRGIN.
    (When Qantas was first 'privatised' British Airways bought up 20% of the shares issued)

    So much for the concept of COMPETITION…. more like CONTROL of ALL Australian national assets by FOREIGN CORPORATIONS.

    HOWARD FLOGGED OFF Australian airports to PRIVATELY OWNED CORPORATE CONGLOMERATES…. Australians and ordinary people CANNOT own shares in these PRIVATE CORPORATIONS. Plus, we do NOT know WHO actually owns these airports, at any time because (being PRIVATE) they are not listed on the stock exchange and their shareholders are NOT listed. How frigging disgusting is that, our own government doesn't even know who owns our airports…. something so vital to our national security!!!!!


    WARNING to all those that have shares in Qantas…..

    If no further NEW issues of shares are floated then the current shareholders would not really suffer EXCEPT that their Board would NOT be operating in THEIR interests BUT the interests in the MAJOR shareholders who will mostly consist of other FOREIGN airlines.

    HOWEVER, if Qantas floated MORE SHARES, then Qantas will receive a once off CAPITAL receipt for the cost of the shares but this would NOT be good for those that currently hold Qantas shares.

    The present holders of shares will LOSE in three ways…..1) less dividends (divided up between a lot more shares) 2) share value is diluted, worth less 3) Board COULD be 100% FOREIGN (Virgin, Emirates & other foreign airlines included) which means that individual & minority shareholders interests would NOT be considered.

    In response to your comment about the CEO…. my PERSONAL OPINION is that he is an absolute INCOMPETENT, lacking in any real management skills and particularly lacking in any form of innovation. He has effectively, again in my PERSONAL OPINION, run down Qantas, for the sole purposes of flogging it off completely to foreign interests.


    This follows on from the Qantas sell off:
    DID YOU KNOW that ABBOTT has offered STATES compensation and told to FLOG OFF their state ASSETS to CORPORATIONS (foreign)? WA Libs have already earmarked the whole of the FREMANTLE PORT to be flogged off for a quarter of its value to a PERTH Billionaire who is in bed with the Libs over there…. and the beat goes on!!!!!

    I really, really, really, really WISH that I had been wrong about ABBOTT selling off Australia to foreign CORPORATIONS and doing whatever Murdoch & his cronies wanted irrespective of whether it was in Australia's interests. I was only wrong about the timing… I thought it would take three YEARS, not three MONTHS to sell Australia.

    The more NATIONAL ASSETS that are flogged off to (foreign) CORPORATIONS, the more control these same (foreign) CORPORATIONS have over our lives AND our whole DEMOCRATIC PROCESSES.

    Just to ensure that this comment relates to the topic, an Australia that is owned by USA & other FOREIGN CORPORATIONS would mean that we are NOT an INDEPENDENT sovereign country because these same CORPORATIONS would hold too much sway over our DEMOCRATIC PROCESSES. Hence, our PM & MINISTER for Foreign Affairs, may simply support the AGGRESSIVE and totally inappropriate actions of the USA when they fly WAR planes over foreign disputed areas and call China bullies? Yes!
    surfer
    30th Nov 2013
    7:22am
    Moorlands/Mussitate It must be fun talking to yourself. Why don't you start argueing with yourself. That would make more sense. Writing a nasty manuscript to yourself could be fun, and take up all the space on this site. Then both of you can start your attack on all other contributions. You must have nothing to do and all day to do it in.
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2013
    7:05pm
    urfer…

    If you have something to add about any topic, great…. but as per usual we only get pathetic personal attacks and inanities ……. sigh…. all a bit boring.
    surfer
    2nd Dec 2013
    11:07am
    No No Mozzie, We are tired of your confused beliefs which could be damaging to some poor gullable soul and does not realize what lies you peddle. Please stop as all your doom and gloom does not help but just frightens some of the old dears on this site. If you are such a brain wave, you should have lots of solutions to the doom and gloom you keep harping about. Just relax, take your pills and leave business to the experts.
    moorlands
    30th Nov 2013
    1:20pm
    To be fair to Joyce, he took over an airline in which the infrastructure under Dixon had been badly neglected and thus had not kept up with it's global competitors, meanwhile the shareholders,including myself, were getting generous dividends, it was a case of doling out the loot to a fortunate few instead of modernizing the company, Just the same as Howard did to Australia with his vote buying middle class welfare, whilst we were slipping behind the rest of the world in things like Education, Health, Technology, etc, so when Joyce took over Qantas, and Rudd then Gillard took over Australia they had a hell of a lot of catching up to do, of course there was a lot of squealing from those who could see their cash cow disappearing whilst the Company, Country, was trying to catch up. I sold my shares at $5 because I could see the writing on the wall, they are now just above $1. Whilst comparing Qantas and Australia, Abbott supporters are trotting out this line that he is new give so him time to settle in, well if I was boarding an aircraft and I was told that the pilot is new so give him time to settle in, I would demand to know if he was Qualified to do the job or not?
    Wstaton
    30th Nov 2013
    3:05pm
    What is this "supporters saying give him time to settle in by supporters" He's been CEO since November 2008. How much time does one need for goodness sake. Prior to this he was CEO of Jetstar so it's not as if he is a newbie to the business.
    moorlands
    30th Nov 2013
    5:53pm
    Apologies Wstaton, what I was saying is that ABBOT,S supporters are saying give ABBOTT time to settle in, I stand by my other comments, Jetstar of course is the example that is needed to compete on the International aviation stage, Qantas is the complete reverse, top heavy, too expensive, and unfortunately the "Jack is as good as his master " mentality that comes through in their service presentation is why I fly Singapore Airlines, not that I consider myself superior but when I pay for service I expect to get it, when I flew Qantas the staff attitude was that it was a privilege for me to be allowed to fly on "their" airline, ocker ism does not gel with me and as Australians are becoming more traveled I suspect it is becoming less attractive to them.
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2013
    7:17pm
    moorlands

    In answer to your statement:

    "Abbott supporters are trotting out this line that he is new give so him time to settle in, well if I was boarding an aircraft and I was told that the pilot is new so give him time to settle in, I would demand to know if he was Qualified to do the job or not?"

    I would say definitely NOT, given that Abbott has simply taken ULTRA right wing THINK TANK lists of what they want and got his VERY POWERFUL "corporate advisor" Maurice Newman to fulfil their every requirement…… no questions asked.

    Re: Qantas - if Joyce had any ounce of entrepreneurship, he could have made qantas brilliant but he chose to instil ancient, old world structures and practices (some that you mentioned) which ensured that Qantas would be a sitting duck for foreign acquisition, at a very low price.
    Wstaton
    1st Dec 2013
    8:06pm
    Bet he will negotiate that he stays CEO as well with an enhanced salary.
    surfer
    2nd Dec 2013
    11:11am
    AH !!!! At last Mussitate is answering himself under Moorlands. That must be fun. Which one of you is winning. No wonder you support labor. A poor confused little bloke that is not sure if he is Arthur or Martha. Cmon Mate, stop making a fool of yourself.
    Wstaton
    2nd Dec 2013
    11:47am
    Surfer, I have just wasted time clicking on 5 emails to read your comments.
    When are we going to get anything meaningful from you.
    moorlands
    2nd Dec 2013
    12:31pm
    Sorry folks, when I held shares in Qantas I followed their progress carefully, Dixon was only interested in profits (which had a direct impact on his salary) his biggest blunder was in not buying the 777 (as they cost money) but instead retained the ageing gas guzzling 747s, he then negotiated a takeover deal with a private equity firm that would have netted himself and Jackson millions in bonus,s which had it have been successful Qantas would not exist today, Jackson fell on her sword but Dixon clung on until later when he went out with an enormous golden handshake.

    Then along came Joyce, he took over those gas guzzlers, and an intractable and over manned Engineering and Management structure on huge salary's, but to retain Qantas,s market share he had to compete with the fares that other more modern fleets were charging but that did not cover the outgoings. Joyce tried to negotiate with the Engineers but they were stuck in a time warp of the day,s when Qantas was Government owned and was "Refinanced "every year to keep it running, and they had no intention of giving up their generous conditions of that era despite the fact that modern aircraft like modern cars require far less maintenance, I am reminded of my Merchant Navy day,s and London Wharfies, they had ten men physically carrying cargo from the wharf to the warehouse, then along came the forklift, but the wharfies would only allow it on the dock if those ten men walked behind it. So Joyce is left desperate for capital to upgrade the fleet and a less intractable workforce. He cannot increase the fares as there would be a passenger exodus and there would be even less of an already inadequate income.
    moorlands
    2nd Dec 2013
    12:40pm
    What I forgot to add is that yes they now have the highly efficient 380, yes Dixon ordered them but he got out before they had to be paid for, and before someone trots out Qantas,s safety record I would point out that Australian aircraft generally fly in clear blue sky,s, of course one exception was when they landed on the golf course during a violent rainstorm, but other airlines deal with that every day.
    unicorn
    2nd Dec 2013
    12:36pm
    Wstaton, you have just made yourself a big enemy, how dare you pick on Surfer like that we all know he is good for only one thing & that is anything that he libs do is ok by him no matter what anybody else thinks. Anything the labs have ever done is clearly wrong.
    surfer
    2nd Dec 2013
    2:11pm
    No No --- Unicorn, I am a free thinker with an open mind, but sometimes things get a bit heavy and too serious. We all have to lighten up instead of all the moaning. it can get you down you know. Shame about Krudd leaving us with 400 billion of debt. Never mind. I thank you for your support. We don't want Wstaton being nasty to me do we.
    Wstaton
    2nd Dec 2013
    3:38pm
    Well who is the nasty one here. I guess If have made myself an enemy I figure in this virtual internet world we live in these days it must be a virtual enemy.
    moorlands
    2nd Dec 2013
    11:12pm
    Stop apologizing surfer, be a man (pratt) like Abbott he doesn't apologize.'
    moorlands
    2nd Dec 2013
    11:29pm
    In defense of surfer, he attended the LNP brainwashing clinic, but someone put in too much detergent.
    surfer
    3rd Dec 2013
    6:50am
    Now Now Moorlands-- You stop being a nasty man and remember Murdoch loves you. What is a Pratt? Is that some new word? You have a nice day.
    surfer
    3rd Dec 2013
    6:53am
    No Wstaton--- I am just getting ready for a meaningful address. We don't need enemys.
    moorlands
    3rd Dec 2013
    11:53pm
    Well surfer you have just confessed that you like Abbott (Rhode scholar) are a (Prat) who is illiterate ,you add the second t to emphasize the word, look it up!
    surfer
    4th Dec 2013
    7:33am
    Mr. Moorlands--- So a prat is illiterate, so what is a know it all, that has to remark on every email on this site, and always spreads doom and gloom called???? It that a Prattt?
    moorlands
    4th Dec 2013
    3:09pm
    surfer why not ask Abbott for one of his suppositories, they are very effective for clearing out that which he speaks.
    unicorn
    3rd Dec 2013
    9:44am
    Why don't you ever learn Surfer every time you open your mouth, you put your foot in it, like Abbot it must be a liberal thing.You can't help but to have a go at Rudd even though he didn't come into the conversation. So I say again "Shut Up" Surfer!PLEASE !!!
    surfer
    3rd Dec 2013
    2:04pm
    Unicorn-- You are a rude nasty man and I don't tell you to shut up when you give your long winded opinions. You must be a loser that voted labor. Well bad luck. Remember you nasty man, that winners are grinners. Are you another doom and gloom agent.
    moorlands
    3rd Dec 2013
    7:55pm
    Welcome to the world of surfer/ dogs body /aquatate, . do not expect rational comment , only personal abuse, well Abbott won the election with it so why not?, the abuse is designed to discourage the meek from commenting on this site I can only hope it does'nt ( note the apostrophe aquatate) work.
    surfer
    4th Dec 2013
    7:26am
    Mr. Moorlands/Mussitate/Masturbate and all your other aliases. We all know by your input you have an inferiority complex and are the biggest abuser on this site.So don't be so nasty, forget all the doom and gloom, and take a long hard look at yourself. You are a very unhappy old coot and we have to feel sorry for you. Is Mussitate still agreeing with Moorlands???? Time you changed to another name, as we all know you are one and the same. Please have a happy day just for a change.
    moorlands
    4th Dec 2013
    3:13pm
    surfer why not ask Abbott for one of his suppositories, they are very effective for clearing out that that which he speaks.
    nightie
    3rd Dec 2013
    3:09pm
    I think what we are missing the point here. It is in our interest. China has got its way for far too long. Are we still giving aid to China? Considering that they steal blueprints to undercut the market in so many areas and will not float the yuan so that the trade is in their favour. They are now sending a rocket to explore the moon to take any valuable minerals and rare earths. Really it must stop. the islands in question apparently have a large oil and gas reserve.
    Heromatic
    4th Dec 2013
    5:15pm
    It's not that we are arrogant, we don't have class or the brains to be that way, our pollies just acting dumb as usual, going backwards in our international relations, trade, jobs, etc. Big mistake voting for this lot. China has the right to reclaim its territory when it can. Australia did nothing when Indonesia invaded East Timor but it is spying on them, what for? Does it intend to do anything about anything? Is it scared of China? Or Indonesia? Or Asia in general? The people of Australia should apologise to China for the mistake of voting for this embarrassing party. Australia has not acted in his own interests, but in the interests of stupidity.
    moorlands
    4th Dec 2013
    11:44pm
    Has anyone else noticed? is there a virus running through the LNP, but after watching Hockey and Whine, they seem to have caught the head nodding virus from Abbott, plus the er ,ah, syndrome. In my sea going days you learned to watch the eyes in an argument as this was the first indication that you were about to receive the " Liverpool Kiss " ( Head Butt), journalists beware!
    Heromatic
    7th Dec 2013
    7:37am
    Abbott is doing worse than Julia, what do we do now? he is also saying he won't prop up Qantas. He needs to gain some wisdom from the Chinese. We can't afford to let our brands, icons and image go down the 'bottomless pit'...where are the economists when we need them, anyway, does economics work? It must be the worse discipline, followed by HR and Marketing, the main parasites in any organisation. How they managed to convince others they are needed is beyond comprehension.


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