One-in-four older Liberal voters will turn on their party

The party is over for Australia’s two major political parties, but especially the Libs.

One-in-four older Liberal voters will turn on their party

Older Australians have told the Coalition that its time is up, with an overwhelming number of respondents saying that the next government will be formed by the Labor Party after the next federal election.

In what has been our most successful Friday Flash Poll, 61 per cent of the 2668 respondents – most of whom were Liberal voters, say that Labor will take the nation’s reins at some stage this year.

In the Forecasting the Federal Election poll, 39 per cent of the participants typically prefer the Liberal Party, with another 37 per cent preferring Labor, six per cent for the Greens and three per cent National Party voters.

The third largest cohort were Independent voters and judging by the comments on the Flash Poll page, many more will turn to independents to salvage our ‘disappointing’ democracy.

In an election that 67 per cent of our members believe will be held in May, only 17 per cent think the Coalition will retain government, with 22 per cent saying there may be a hung parliament.

Interestingly, if Labor forms government after the next election, the jury is also hung on whether Scott Morrison should stick around as leader, with 36 per cent saying he will and 36 per cent saying he won’t – 27 per cent say he will but he shouldn’t.

On the flipside, in the seemingly unlikely event that Labor fails at the polls, 50 per cent of our members think Bill Shorten will walk, while 25 per cent think he’ll stay and 25 per cent say he’ll stay but he shouldn’t.

And the pair of pollies arguably responsible for the Liberal Party’s more recent instability – Tony Abbott and Peter Dutton – will also lose their seats at the next election, say our members, with 60 per cent saying Mr Abbott is out the door and 69 per cent saying Mr Dutton will follow.

When asked which party will get their vote in 2019, 37 per cent will cast in favour of the Labor Party, 31 per cent for the Libs, five per cent for the Greens and three per cent for the Nationals – so it may still be a close race.

But the big result was in favour of independent candidates, with almost one in five (19 per cent) of our respondents saying they will vote independent at the next election.

The poll proves that Australians want to send our two-party system a message that democracy is failing and it’s time for it to be more ‘democratic’, with more choice and a chance for balance.

“Vote Independent,” wrote YourLifeChoices member Retired Knowall. “Make your vote count by sending the message to the Major Parties that the ‘party’ is over. Voting for the major parties will only continue the mess this country is in. I believe you may have heard the expression ‘If you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what you have got’.”

Most of our members expressed disappointment (to say the least!) about the actions of the current government, but many are also disillusioned by the prospect of a Labor win, even though most say it seems inevitable.

“The priority should be to ensure neither major party has sufficient numbers to do serious harm, and I honestly believe the ALP is the more dangerous of the two, despite recognising that the LNP is toxic and has done enormous harm. I believe both parties share the same agenda. Labor just goes about it differently, and I believe in a much more harmful and deceptive manner.

“What matters most is that we send a strong message to career politicians that the day of reckoning has come and we will no longer tolerate their abuse of power. They must be told that they are there to serve us and to act in the interests of the majority and society as a whole – not to peddle their own self-serving agenda or to feather the nests of their buddies. To do that, we must elect as many independents and minor party members as possible, taking great care to choose our own preferences and not follow how to vote cards,” wrote OnlyGenuineRainey

What should be most concerning to the Liberal Party is the one in four typically Liberal voters who say they will vote for either an independent candidate or the Labor Party at the next election.

“I have voted Liberal all my voting life. I was in the young libs when I was in my mid 20s (during Costello’s time there). But as a care worker and a mother of two young people – one who has tried really, really, really hard to get a job, my eyes are open to the injustices of the current government. No way I will be voting Liberal next time. I am ashamed to have been a Liberal,” wrote Leek.

Will you be changing your vote at the next election? Are you surprised by these results? Or has the writing been on the wall for the Liberal Party for a while now? Do you think independents are the answer to our democratic failures?

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    COMMENTS

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    Dave R
    7th Jan 2019
    10:13am
    Independents may or may not be the answer to rejuvenating our tired and out of touch two party system but IMO it's certainly worth finding out. When you vote this election put the major parties last on your ballot paper. Certainly this current LNP government deserves to be booted out.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jan 2019
    11:53am
    Why? Nothing better on the table.
    mogo51
    7th Jan 2019
    12:40pm
    Yes Dave agree with you and your predictions, they are in line with my view of what will happen. We are on a 'hiding to nothing' giving Independents the reigns, they could not do any worse than the 2 'majors' who will be minors soon.
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    3:34pm
    OG, the ALP is vastly better.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jan 2019
    3:56pm
    Better where? All I see is higher taxes and high debt due lots of money being wasted.
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    6:12pm
    There is nothing better anywhere, but the LNP has to go. The problem is replacing it. Whatever we replace it with will be at least an equal disaster, if not a great deal worse.
    GeorgeM
    7th Jan 2019
    11:33pm
    Exactly my recommendation, Dave R, put the current MPs from any of the 2 Majors and the Greens LAST in preferences to ensure they lose their seats. Independents or some minor parties may benefit, but importantly the landscape can also start changing once these self-centred leeches from these Major parties realise we won't tolerate them any more. Retirees have a lot of experience of deceit by these parties and owe it to themselves as well as the nation to act in unison this time.

    And, while they consider the above, all Retirees should also tell their local MPs to back Universal Pension as one possible way they could get back support from Retirees, after all their stuff-ups of the retirement plans of 100s of thousands of retirees.
    Gra
    8th Jan 2019
    9:00am
    Not too often I agree with Old Geezer but I do on this occasion. Yes, the coalition has had some ups and downs but to vote Labor in it would be all downs. With Shorten at the wheel this country would be in reverse so fast the wheels would be spinning. And this is from someone who up until the 2013 elections had ALWAYS voted Labor. There is only so much one can abide before they say enough.
    Anonymous
    8th Jan 2019
    10:49am
    I have to agree that if it were one or the other, Libs would be the much lesser risk, Gra. I will vote independent, hoping to balance out the extremes, but I sincerely hope we have opposing House and Senate and plenty of independents and minors.
    Anonymous
    8th Jan 2019
    2:11pm
    Fake news as usual as most reports here are biased Left. Anyone doing the survey may well say won't vote liberal.
    But come the day in the Ballot box will go Liberal if only other offer is Labor or Green.
    Cant trust Labor particularly if on age pension. Cut it for couples in 2009 and some idiots who lost out still vote Labor. OK wasnt made public by Media as all lean left so wont say anything to damage Labor or Greens. Just Liberals, One Nation etc.
    Hoohoo
    8th Jan 2019
    4:29pm
    I agree, Dave R, but be very careful about some VERY dodgy Independents & minor Parties, which deserve even more to be placed last on the ballot sheet.
    I always vote below the line for the Senate. I start with #1 for my favourite Independents until I'm left with the major parties & the Dodgies. Then I vote next for my preferred major Party thru to my least favourite major, then make sure those nasty Dodgies are numbered last.
    You think LNP & Labor are toxic? These Dodgies take first prize & people need to be careful not to inadvertently give them a preference vote. Voting for Majors before them will deny any possibility of preferences trickling down to the nasties.
    Hoohoo
    9th Jan 2019
    12:38pm
    Here are some names/groups of the Dodgies to put last in NSW State election in March:
    - David Leyonhjelm,
    - Mark Latham (for Pauline Hanson’s One Nation Party),
    - Fred Nile (for the Christian Democrats),
    - MP Robert Borsak (for The Shooters and Fishers upper house)
    - Cory Bernardi’s Australian Conservatives will field a candidate.
    ardnher
    11th Jan 2019
    3:42pm
    the only reliable poll is the one on election day.
    Hoohoo
    14th Jan 2019
    3:45pm
    That's right, ardnher. A lot of substandard candidates get elected because of lazy, unengaged voters who donkey vote.

    7th Jan 2019
    10:28am
    Fake news
    Older Australians will vote for the party that looks after them and that’s tne Liberals
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    10:59am
    ROFL.. cue Rainey, Mick, Rae and all the others.. enter stage centre.....

    Your stand-up comedy routine needs work but it is funny...
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    11:19am
    I expect the Liberal Party paid trolls to be here on this one. No surprise Lothario is onto the denials.
    Yeah TREBOR....we can shout down the trolls as well as they can call 'unfair'. The reality is THIS GOVERNMENT has burnt retirees with a smile on its face. Now time to face the guillotine. May the bastards rot in hell.
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    11:21am
    Labor introduced means testing
    Raisedpe sion age to 67
    Wants to raise pension age to 70
    Take away franking credits from low income retirees
    The list goes on
    Mad as Hell
    7th Jan 2019
    11:24am
    The Liberals stealing entitlements from part pensioners and then proposing $144 billion in corporate tax cuts for big corporations is not looking after older Australians.
    Paddington
    7th Jan 2019
    11:29am
    Lothario, you are too obvious. There is no balance to your assertions. Lucky LNP to have you on their payroll lol!
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    11:30am
    The LNP didn't drop the Pension Age back down to 65 - instead they went on the attack and ranted and raved about how much pensions are going to cost and what a drain those nasty old people are on the economy, and dumped on the smaller SFRs in a big way.

    By the time we finish with Labor, Bro Shorten will be too frightened to try any of those insanities... and will be under ceaseless fire if he tries it on.

    Best option is to vote for neither...
    Old Geezer
    7th Jan 2019
    11:54am
    Yes old Australians will still vote for the Liberals.
    Misty
    7th Jan 2019
    1:32pm
    I bet you thought that would happen in the Victorian election OG and the Wentworth election, but that is not how it turned out was it.
    Rae
    7th Jan 2019
    1:59pm
    Fascist policy directions mean they look after no one but their own cronies and serve only themselves. If we want democracy back we will need to destroy both the ALP and LNP in my opinion.

    How older people who remember WW11 can vote for these far right MPs is beyond my understanding.

    Yes privatisation was indeed one of Hitler's ideas. Look at the outcomes for us now.

    The MSM are fussing about St Kilda and fascists rising. Of course they are after two decades of pure fascist policies from both Government and Opposition.
    PlanB
    7th Jan 2019
    2:52pm
    Libs look after the oldies -- you HAVE to be JOKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Old Geezer
    7th Jan 2019
    3:57pm
    Labor certainly does look after the oldies. Who put the pension age up to 67? it is will 70 under Labor's first term too.
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    5:14pm
    So you are ignoring the reality that this government is putting the retirement age up to 70? The highest in the world.
    And comes comes the family home into the assets test. They're raring to go and you keep getting this leaked to the media. Only recently it was AGAIN up for discussion. Tells a story.

    I may give many of the FAIR socialist policies Labor the thumbs up but that does not mean I support the party. I'll have to vote Labor this election as I cannot stand by and let the current crooks get back in.

    If you want continuing attacks on retirees then by all mean vote for the bastards and good luck if you get burnt. You will.
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    6:16pm
    Labor wants to destroy the lifestyle of any oldies who weren't on a pension in March 2017 - demolishing their income for life, no matter how poor they may become, for no better reason than that they worked hard to contribute tens of thousands every year to the Treasury to pay other people a pension. If that's looking after oldies, PLEASE DON'T.

    LNP wiped out the retirement of 330,000 oldies and removed incentives to save for retirement by making the assets test so ridiculously illogical and harsh that unless one can retire rich, they might as well be a pensioner - because they will probably be a lot worse off for saving a few hundred thousand more.

    Both parties are the enemy of retirees, and there's no way to choose between them - but Labor is the biggest danger at the moment.
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    10:02pm
    OGR - your personal hatred of Labor has blinded you. Look at the ledger and look at the past 6 years. God help Australians if this lot get back in. You ain't seen nothing yet.
    Gra
    8th Jan 2019
    9:07am
    Mick, how many times do we have to be stung by Labor before you will admit they are not good for pensioners or this country as a whole. Labor and the Greens have one aim and that is the destruction of our society. We can't afford a socialist state like they want. I voted Labor for far too long before I realised what they wanted and where we were heading. Never again will I vote Labor and definitely not with Shorten at the wheel.
    Anonymous
    8th Jan 2019
    11:17am
    Mick, I don't have any 'personal hatred' for either party - though I do have 'personal hatred' for nearly all politicians, as they are self-serving, arrogant, and generally inept and without a conscience. The ledger says Labor will continue to take everything workers and savers strive for and push the middle and upper working class down, while the Libs will continue to bash the poorer and dependent and the lowest wage earners - and BOTH parties will continue to over-indulge the rich with the savings, plus plunge the nation into more and more debt. Okay, as one of the upper working class (now), I personally have a greater fear of Labor, because I am their target. But equally having done it very tough for a long time and coming from a seriously disadvantaged background, I hate the Libs for their attitude to the less privileged. I agree with Gra that Labor and the Greens have a dangerous agenda - the Greens more so than Labor. And it's not just economic. Their social agenda is dangerous. Immorality destruction of family and community values has destroyed civilisations in the past. Climate change extremists threaten our way of life.

    The relevant point, though, is that you cannot make a society more prosperous by making those who contribute most poorer. Now, OG will say the rich contribute most because they contribute most of the taxes. WRONG. They could NOT contribute at all if they didn't have the opportunity to use the working class. The working class contribute in two ways. They don't pay as much tax in dollar terms, but they pay substantial tax in proportion to their income including huge indirect tax, AND they contribute by working for far less than their labour is worth so that the employer can sell their labour at the true commercial rate and make a profit. Then we have the small businessman, who creates jobs and opportunity for workers as well as paying tax and driving spending that drives growth and increased tax revenue. And we have the investor, who funds business growth that drives jobs and tax revenue. And when people retire, it's a good thing if they have saved enough to not burden the taxpayer greatly, and it's a wonderful thing if they leave enough to offspring to raise living standards for the next generation. It's fantastic if they save enough to contribute to the health and education costs for grandchildren. It's a huge benefit if they can afford to spend a little more freely because that drives growth and jobs and more tax revenue.

    We NEED people to work, save and invest, and Labor's goal - and more so the Greens - is to push those people down. Yes, Labor is more generous to the disadvantaged, and I like that, but when there is nobody to pay for welfare and services, what then? The rich WON'T pay. Most here moan constantly about that. They find every trick in the book to avoid contributing their fair share. So Labor's attack on those who DO pay is going to backfire badly. And that's why, despite despising the greed and lack of empathy of the right wing, I think Labor is the greater danger to our society. Unfortunately, the Libs have erred left also and attacked the middle and upper working class, so for many of us there seems to be no hope on a personal level. When considering the overall welfare of society I still see Labor as the greater risk, though it's a close call.
    Hoohoo
    8th Jan 2019
    4:42pm
    TALK ABOUT FAKE NEWS! It's the LIBERALS who want to raise the pension age to 70.

    And what's wrong with means testing? It stops our taxes being wasted on middle class welfare - surely what everyone will acknowledge is only right & fair.

    Now we just have to stop having our taxes wasted on upper class welfare & other government benefits. The only way to stop it is to get rid of this Liberal Government.
    Anonymous
    8th Jan 2019
    5:18pm
    HooHoo, means testing DOES NOT stop money being wasted on middle class welfare. It creates absurd unfairness and in some cases hardship, encourages manipulation and dishonesty, incurs hideously high administration and policing costs, and promotes social division.

    Labor will continue upper class welfare. The rich look after the rich. That will never change. The big difference between ALP and LNP is that the LNP looks after the rich at the expense of the poorest whereas ALP does it at the expense of the middle and upper working class, but in ways that destroy the value of work. And when you destroy the value of work, there is no tax revenue, and then we can't afford to look after the poor. So both parties will destroy the nation and both will hurt the poor badly.
    Anonymous
    8th Jan 2019
    6:19pm
    Correct Rainey
    Unfortunately Cuckoo, Mick and the band of lefties either refuse to understand or are too thick
    Hoohoo
    11th Jan 2019
    2:52pm
    Generally speaking, means testing is a good tool. For example, when I went to Uni (having to move from the country to the city), I was given a living away allowance that was means tested. This was a good thing which stopped very rich country people taking advantage, especially considering their children were already boarded & educated at elite private schools in the city.
    OGR, I know in your case it isn't working for you, (& I'm sorry for that) but the bigger picture is what a government has to deal with, unfortunately.
    The value of work has been utterly undermined by global economics & the fact my labour is directly competing with someone from a third world country like say someone from China (quite possibly a child), the Philippines, India, etc. This is what is wrecking wages in Australia.
    Anonymous
    12th Jan 2019
    6:54am
    Means testing punishes endeavour. It's NEVER a good thing. The rich manipulate to get it. The poor qualify anyway. And the battlers in the middle get screwed unless they deliberately reduce their income and/or assets, which makes them better off. It's a stupid idea.

    Today I read a submission to the inquiry into franking credits and it highlighted just how ridiculous our means tested pension system would become under Short-on's idiotic policy. It noted that someone getting just $1 of pension would qualify for franking credits and could potentially get over $12,000 PLUS all the pension benefits and concessions - while someone with just $1 more would get NOTHING. Now, as the writer pointed out, if you call franking credit refunds 'welfare' (as Labor does - though clearly they are NOT!), then you are saying

    a full pensioner with no other assets or income and no shares should get welfare of $23,824 per year plus concessions

    a pensioner who gets $25,000 a year in dividends fully franked should get welfare of their part pension and concessions PLUS $10714 EXTRA WELFARE

    and a self-funded homeowner retiree with $600,000 invested at 5% - half in shares paying fully franked dividends - should get no welfare but live on $23,500 with no concessions.

    a worker on $250,000 a year of which $50,000 is dividends should get welfare of $21428.57

    a worker on $40,000 a year should get NO welfare, whether he owns shares or not.

    Labor introduced means testing of the OAP, and now they are introducing this astonishing fiasco, and calling it 'fair'!!!!!!
    Hoohoo
    13th Jan 2019
    11:42am
    OGR the scenario you expose here is clearly ridiculous, but the reason is not simply because of means testing.

    The problem is we have a system where a quite wealthy person can arrange their affairs so they are eligible to receive that $1 of OAP (& all the accompanying benefits). Then there's someone like yourself who ethically refuses ANY welfare & is therefore punished all over the place by the Government, in every department. I admire you for your ethical stance, OGR, but don't hold your breath expecting the Govt or ATO to reward you for it.

    The Govt or ATO expect people to take everything they can possibly grab, ie selfish is the rule (& the richer you are, the greedier you can be). This is why you are being punished OGR - you have ethics.
    Misty
    14th Jan 2019
    3:54pm
    You are right there Lothario, Liberal politicians look after Liberal voters but they are all they look after.
    KB
    7th Jan 2019
    10:45am
    Voting for independents will send a clear message that voters have had enough of both major parties. Independents do try to sway both major parties with their own policies and vice versa I agree that the Liberals should be booted out and put last on the ballot paper.
    ex PS
    7th Jan 2019
    6:19pm
    I used to agree, but am disillusioned with the propensity for so called Independents to be inclined to back the sitting government. If they are willing to think and act for themselves it is a waste of time voting for them. They are not driving change.
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    6:25pm
    I have no faith in an independent government. I think we need to vote independent to get the message through to the egomaniacal blockheads in Canberra that we've had enough of BOTH major parties and we want reform. It's more a vote of no confidence than anything else, I think, because there just aren't any good options.
    ex PS
    9th Jan 2019
    10:44am
    OGR, I agree.
    ardnher
    11th Jan 2019
    3:45pm
    in my opinion voting for an independent is a wasted vote. get a lot of dickheads in parliament that way..

    7th Jan 2019
    10:52am
    I don't trust polls, especially from a left-leaning site such as Your Life Choices. There is no proof that those who claimed to support a particular party actually do support that party and that can skew a result. As regards voting Abbott or Dutton out, perhaps only those in the electorates of Warringah or Dickson should have their thoughts measured.

    In the unlikely event that Labor loses the election, Shorten will be replaced, probably by Albanese, whether he jumps or whether he is pushed. Personally, I'd prefer Albanese as a PM rather than Shorten as Albanese is not an accused rapist with a speech impediment.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    11:04am
    For some anything left of far right is left-leaning.... anyone who dares take a centrist stance is labeled a communist and a popularist, and is plainly demented and out of touch with realities....

    Those who voted in Abbott and Dutton hardly have thoughts that can be measured, it seems... the 'accused rapist' thing has been around for ages now - when does the trial begin? And dissing a man with a disahability! Ye gods! Sacrilege!! I'd rather hang the fool for his opportunistic and self serving lip service to the feminist etc claptrap he claims to actually believe in and support, and for being a globalist and thus destructor of this nation and its people.
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    11:14am
    Thanks, Bob, I'm not the sort who will diss a person with a disability when that disability cannot be changed but in this case the inability to properly pronounce the "th" combination is pure laziness. He has corrected most of the problem but not all of it. Unlike you, I would prefer that he was cast aside rather than be hung. As to the accusation, there will be no trial because the police had a simple case of "she said; he said" with no proof that it happened or didn't happen. As such, no charges could be laid so he remains accused, not exonerated.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    11:21am
    Ah - so it's a dithability.. Woger, wing the twouble woom.... the wascals won't get away with this!

    Thertainly, Thir! Theven officerth will be here thortly!!

    OK - 'accused rapist' - aye, skipper, ye be on very dangerous ground there....

    When I said 'hung' I meant figuratively, not physically..... might was well be hung for sheepishly following a silly ideology as for not listening to a Lambie....
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    11:27am
    No Bob, it's not a dithability; it's a diffabilty".
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    11:31am
    Buggar - my diffability is showing.... can't wead wight any more..
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    11:49am
    Sounds like your normal troll comment OM. Why am I not surprised at your gutter unfounded attack. That's what the current government is all about. Its in their DNA so I shouldn't be surprised.
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    11:54am
    Happy New Year MICK, pleased to see that you still use bully boy tactics and attack the messenger, not the message as well as the broad unsupported statements. Your Labor bosses will be pleased.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jan 2019
    11:55am
    Shorten will be replaced even if Labor wins. We all know that the unions will have Paul Howes in the job in a flash.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    1:53pm
    The ACTU is a feminist playground these days - they'll be wanting a woman in the top spot again - god help us... if I could see one of genuine merit......... but no man or woman leaps to mind .....
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    5:16pm
    Pretending you are balanced when attacking the (current) better side of politics does not appeal to me OM. It is dishonest. Call a spade a spade rather than dress it up with BS.
    imac
    7th Jan 2019
    10:52am
    Two party system to go. Preferential voting to go. People are fed up with main stream left wing politicians feathering their own nests at the expense of Australians. Also, politicians superannuation must be thrown out and become the same as ordinary workers with same conditions. One law in Australia. Vote Independents.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    11:05am
    Two party system to go. Preferential voting to go. People are fed up with main stream politicians feathering their own nests at the expense of Australians. Also, politicians superannuation must be thrown out and become the same as ordinary workers with same conditions. One law in Australia. Vote Independents.

    All fixed for ya...... no fee this time, first service free...
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    11:17am
    imac and Bob, I agree wholeheartedly but there is only one thing stopping our ideals; politicians are the ones who frame the legislation to make that happen. Can you honestly see them voting to destroy their careers?
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    11:24am
    Too true - oh, the joys of being in the game and making the rules, too.. then being the referee as well... the referee gets the same pay rises etc and the same super conditions... he/she is not going to cut the throat that drinks from the same well.... of the sweetest water in the land...
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    11:52am
    What...only one side of politics imac? The problems are on BOTH sides...which is why I normally suggest voting Independent.
    The difference in this election is that the current has been dropping in bits of legislation which will in time allow it to get the big business dictatorship it wants. Have you not been listening?
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    10:58am
    Not 'my' party any more than Labor is... I've been Her Majesty's True and Loyal Opposition to The Government of Two Parties since around 1992..... neither of them is doing their job of husbanding the nation's resources for the best benefit of its people - and both are far too locked into taking excellent care of their own personal special interest groups.

    I have no time for any of them, nor for the Greens.

    (Only the Trebor Party can save us... Vote 12Trebor for Lifetime President.)
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    11:06am
    Vote 1.. 1... 1... Trebor for Lifetime President... (dang it)....
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    11:16am
    The rot started with St Bob of the Hawke, with his derailed 'government of national reconciliation', which rapidly turned into a government of wrecking a silly nation - then came:-
    The Spectre ofThe Undertaker, Hawke's Ghost on The Battlements,
    The Coward John Howard and the Gun Thieves, Warden of the Tax Dodges, and Comptroller of WorkChoices, Knight of taking a bath,
    St Kevin the Inkruddible,
    St Julia Of The Red Hair,
    The Inkruddible Sulk again,
    St Anthony of the Abbey,
    Lord Malcolm in The Middle,
    and now Beam Me Up Scottie (not a trace of intelligent politics down here)....

    ......what's next? St Bill of The Opportunistic Feminist Persuasion or Beam Me Up Scottie again?

    Country's gone to the dogs....
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    11:25am
    Country gone to the dogs?
    No surprise with voters like you and Mick
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    11:34am
    We are but two - the majority are responsible...... and they've voted for your lot for far too long... some even say that St Tony will make it back in in er... ahh.. umm... Warringah way.....helluva lot of wannabes up that way.... so many they must import the workers from outside like Aspen if you were to believe their belief system... surely nobody works at Macca's ... too classy and upstatus for that...
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    11:57am
    I agree with your sentiments TREBOR but I have to ask you what you will do if this lot were re-elected? First thing more huge tax cuts for the rich. Then individuals in court being jailed with 'hurting the nation' legislation when they oppose the regime. Then citizens tracked wherever they go. And of course the family home in the assets test.....I mean they need pension money to hand to the wealthy.
    Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. I'd prefer a Labor government which at the very least is not a rich man's tool. Read Lothario's posts, and others, and think about what these trolls would do once in power. Frightening.
    Misty
    7th Jan 2019
    12:44pm
    What is your beef with females TREBOR?
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    1:57pm
    Nothing, Misty - I adore women etc - it's the feminists and their BS ideology I can't stand...

    Separate the women from the ideology.... and hang the ideologists ... that's my bag.... countless women agree and support my views... don't confuse one thing with another. The country and people are best served by genuine equality and not more of the same 'give us more to make us equal' lie that leaps from the mouths of ideologues of all kinds - including business..
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    2:07pm
    B/s
    Your use of the world husbandry shows you are a woman hater just like Shorten
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    3:42pm
    And your comment shows that you're an intellectually challenged Rightard, Lothario.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    4:38pm
    Not at all, class - the term 'husbandry' refers to dedicatedly cultivating and caring over your own patch... it has nothing to do with sexism or any other -ism.

    All this twisting of words these days to suit an agenda driven by a false ideology is long past its use by date... all of huMANity knows that by now... and only the fools and ideologues with nowhere else to go hang on to those falsehoods in the 21st Century .. and cause immeasurable harm in doing so, since they provide the fertile sea in which these insanities can float like a Bondi cigar.... if it were not for the useful fools none of these idiotologies would get off the ground....

    (amen)...
    Misty
    7th Jan 2019
    5:02pm
    Men and women will never be equal TREBOR, their bodies are not built to do the work of men, some maybe, but not many. Intellectually men and women can be equal but not physically, or maybe you will disagree with my comment.
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    5:17pm
    Who writes your scripts Lothario? Donald Trump? At the least they give me a good laugh with their stupidity and (obvious) nonsense. Luckily the oldies on this site will see through them.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    6:13pm
    No, Misty - I agree totally - equality is in real rights - not rights that only apply to some and not others.

    It's absurd for anyone to seek to enforce that all are physically equal... I'm not built the same as other men.. let alone women... and we are all built to be horses for courses...

    Feminist ideology mandates that the only reason women do not achieve physically as much as men is that societal demands placed on them render them less strong etc.. utter insanity. Women's top level sports teams don't do as well as men because society demands failure from them... (yardle)... maybe they could try it from men's side some time, with all the demands to achieve and 'be' somebody or something (hence my theme elsewhere about the reasons for gangs etc - but that's for another day)...

    This lady has a series out:-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SY-6QlswkI
    Anonymous
    8th Jan 2019
    11:25am
    I like the story a friend tells whenever the subject of gender equality is raised. He worked in a very physically demanding and dangerous job. Anyone who wasn't up to it physically was at grave risk. A woman came wanting to work 'on equal terms' and demanding equality. He said 'Fine' and he and two other strong men took their turn at a task, then he turned to her and said 'your turn'. She replied that she couldn't lift the weight so she needed help. He replied, 'you wanted to be equal, so we are treating you equally. None of the others were helped.' She resigned.

    He goes on to say 'My father died in the front lines in war. If women want to go next time, instead of me sending my sons, that's fine with me and I guarantee it would be fine with my sons too! But I do question why on earth they would prefer to shovel concrete, lift heavy objects, and fight on the front lines than stay at home and have men open doors for them and pull out their chairs? Oh, they only want management jobs? That's NOT equality, and it has nothing to do with gender. If they want equality in management, they need to be equal everywhere else as well."
    leek
    7th Jan 2019
    11:13am
    WOW- I got quoted in the article- me is famous- LOL.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    11:24am
    Wow - I'll take a look...
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    4:38pm
    My personal hero!!! First off the block in 2019!!
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    5:18pm
    "The Castle"!
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    6:19pm
    I was quoted also. That will upset a couple of people!
    Gra
    8th Jan 2019
    9:17am
    Goes to show there wasn't much depth in the poll. Four respondents suddenly becomes nearly 3,000 :)
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    11:27am
    Oh - and Independents may not be the total answer - and will inevitably form power blocs eventually anyway = parties - but it is a start, provided we have the right Independents to vote for and not party plants and schills...

    I plan to vote as I have done for ages now - for Independents... and to continue to push the media/ABC to interview minor party candidates and Indies... rather than sticking to the ages old two big fat cats in the room...
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    11:31am
    You want Sarah Twofathers opinion on anything?
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    11:39am
    Happy to listen to all views and make up my own strong-minded mind..... the Greens talk the talk in many ways... but they have the scent of too far leftism... and wanting school kids to have the vote is insane... we already get enough of those little indoctrinated twerps coming out there and telling us who we're all wrong about everything and they know better.

    Was reading a book last night - it said that the education system actually stalled the progression of minds to maturity, since it mandated that the mind remain immature in order to accept and be 'flexible' in learning (have to wonder about that given the rigidity of certain strands of 'education' these days - notably in the social sciences) .... and that many such who continued into academia NEVER matured.

    Interesting concept... interesting book....
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    11:45am
    On the other hand Your mind is totally inflexible
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    12:00pm
    OM - what about Darryn Maguire or Tony Abbott or coal man Kelly or Pyne, etc? A really long list.

    TREBOR - you are of course correct but think about Independents, even non event ones, who government with THEIR conscience. I suspect we need legislation to stop the purchase of MPs and cut off big business from buying legislation. It is possible.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    12:01pm
    Ha, ha....
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    12:14pm
    We need legislation to ban all unions
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    2:01pm
    Free right of association and to lobby as a group - no way Jose`. Are you offering to disband and silence the business groups as well?

    Ban donations to parties by interest groups - carefully monitor all other donations including free air time and such.

    "Nah... NAH... s'not true - Ripout Coal Extraction did NOT give the Nationals free cars and drivers during the election run-up to buy preference! It was a gift from the heart to struggling politicians.... god knows they don't get enogth already ..."
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    2:02pm
    .. and as for the business club - 150 members most of whom don't pay tax - talk about bloody Bolsheviks holding the nation to ransom at the point of a gun ....
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    3:44pm
    "We need legislation to ban all unions "

    Only a card-carrying Nazi would say that...
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    5:19pm
    Legislation to ban all unions but no legislation to ban crooked business buying politicians and the media? That's what a dictatorship looks like.
    Comrade Lothario? Look out anybody who disagrees.
    Retired Knowall
    7th Jan 2019
    7:58pm
    One of the main problems with our present system is Preferential Voting.
    Can someone explain to me how Fraser Anning became a Senator with only getting 19 Votes.
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    10:04pm
    You have my vote Knowall. There is a problem there which both sides do not fix because they think they can use the flaw.
    thommo
    7th Jan 2019
    11:30am
    I've been waiting for this sort of poll for the last 20 years, but the Liberals during the last 6 years have been profoundly obnoxious.
    Just look at Abbott, who got into govt in 2013 on a raft of seriously broken promises, and the Libs extreme far-right political agenda pushed by him and his cronies like Dutton, Cormann, Morrison, Andrews, Abetz (and the list goes on).
    There's not a scintilla of compassion or reasonableness in their beings.
    To add insult to injury, as if the age pension wasn't low enought (and totally inadequate), the Libs adversely changed the assets test in 2015 stuffing up the retirement of about a million retirees, and they really thought there would be no back-lash for that little bit of meaness. Yet they give tax breaks to the rich and the big companies (most of whom don['t pay any tax at all).
    And look at the behaviour of people like Broad and the beetrooter (Joyce), and the LNP expect us to ignore such disgraceful conduct...Not any more...
    Older Australians nearly unseated this LNP govt at the 2016 election, but they won't miss them at the 2019 election.
    I for one, will be there with a bat in each hand.
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    11:39am
    Gee thommo, you think that the Liberal/Nationals are the only ones who do those things? Rudd promised to keep our borders safe, Gillard promised no carbon tax, Rudd promised no tax rises and promptly increased the excise on RTD spirits. (He lamely claimed that it wasn't a tax increase as it was an excise. Look up excise in any dictionary and you'll see a definition of "tax") They raised the pension age to 67 without telling the electorate. Burke had an affair with a staffer, left his wife and children to marry her and how is that different to Joyce? Rudd was drunk at a strip club but that's OK, I suppose. Come on thommo, they are all human beings with human failings regardless of which side they are on.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    11:43am
    Stop The Votes!

    Cut immigration until things stabilise economically and socially, and we get rid of the rats that came in with the loads of guinea pig refugees..... (dare one use the word) cleanse your immigrant population of its down-siders.... wage thieves, tax evaders, social condition destroyers........ jihadis......

    Three criminal strikes and you're out - one terrorist strike and you're out....

    Stop the Votes!!
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    11:46am
    well said thommo
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    11:50am
    Pie in the sky Bob. No politician has the intestinal fortitude to bite the bullet and legislate what is good for the nation. Instead they, and their hired help, have heads stuck in opinion polls, editorials, watch the ABC, listen to talkback radio and let the vocal minority run the show. As well as a cut to immigration, we need dams, coal fired powered stations, nuclear power and stop subsidising renewable energy programs.
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    12:04pm
    Great post thommo. Maybe I had you wrong.

    OM - you crack me up but then you are beating the cash for comment LNP drum so maybe I should not be. Labor has made mistakes but much fewer than the current bunch of crooks doing business for the coal industry in exchange for electoral donations and giving the wealthy tax cuts at the same time they are taking from retirees and other working Australians trying to pay their mortgage....whom they are crushing.
    You have no credibility. Your posts may be low key but they are advertising for the current government. Shame on you.
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    12:20pm
    Credibility MICK? I try and balance a biased opinion with facts and you question my credibility? As to your credibility, do you know, or do you care, that fossil fuel companies also donate to Labor? On the basis of your comments, what does Labor give them in return as, according to you, those who donate expect a quid pro quo. Of course, union money, or more correctly, union members' money, can be handed over without any deals being done, pure philanthropy. The link I have added shows the extent of fossil fuel companies donation to all parties.

    https://www.marketforces.org.au/politicaldonations/
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    2:05pm
    National Integrity Commission with real cojones? Who will be struck down in their hubris??? Who will be the first to the guillotine of public opinion and serious review of their activities?
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    2:34pm
    Mick, the LNP gave out tax cuts to the wealthy funded by hits on retirees and other battlers, but now Labor is taking far more from retirees than the LNP ever took and leaving high income earners and the wealthy well alone to enjoy those franking credits that are so unaffordable (but only when they benefit battlers on very low incomes!) Then to buy votes they grant more affluent pensioners who can afford to own shares TRIPLE benefits, while denying anyone who dared to be self-supporting in March 2018 any level of fairness for the rest of their life. One can only conclude that both parties are pursuing the same objectives and both are as bad as each other. Banish the lot of them!
    Sundays
    7th Jan 2019
    2:47pm
    Unlike many on this site, I believe the pension is an entitlement, and not Welfare It represents 3% of GDP about the same as superannuation tax concessions. I would support a party which introduced universal pension the same as New Zealand. There would be savings in a smaller Centrelink and some of the Futures Fund could also be used, There is no evidence that in New Zealand or parts of Europe where there is a universal pension that people have given up saving and investing.
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    5:20pm
    OM - you normally start off with a bet each way and end up with an unfounded slag on Labor or Shorten. Tell me about a balanced comment.
    On the Ball
    7th Jan 2019
    11:47am
    COULDN'T CONCENTRATE ON THE ARTICLE BECAUSE OF THE STUPID FLASHING ADS AND PROMOTIONS FOR THE NEXT ARTICLE.
    DIDN'T READ WHAT I WANTED TO!!!!!
    Rosret
    7th Jan 2019
    12:00pm
    Agreed.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    12:02pm
    I use Ad Blocker...
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    2:05pm
    AdBlock Plus - free and this is not an ad for them ...
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    3:49pm
    AdBlock Plus with the Mozilla Firefox browser.
    Rosret
    7th Jan 2019
    11:59am
    Or a lot of Liberal voters aren't silly enough to fill in an online survey!
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    2:36pm
    That could well be, Rosret. I didn't fill it in - though I am not a Liberal voter, but not ALP either. Independent all the way.
    travelman
    7th Jan 2019
    11:59am
    We have all been expecting many, many people turning against the Liberals, after all, they shouldn't be surprised. There behaviour has been and still is the most disgusting of any Australian government since Federation. I feel for Scott Morrison; rather like the captain if the Titanic trying to 'bail out' the incoming Atlantic sea with a cup - doomed.


    I believe we should, if not voting Liberals, vote for the Labour Party for the one thing they offer is a stable and united party. However, it is time that this nation should charge a new government the job of re-valuating political parties to be completely 'divorced' from unions, businesses or any other external influences. Never before have we had to think this way but it is one of the reasons that governments are failing you the people. The other influence that has been damaging political parties has been the internal one - faction fighting and personal agenda's by some party members, creating a form of political cancer in the party. It seems to me that all these problems are common to just about every government around the world. To vote for independents would only exasperate the situation we find ourselves in; I can think of several that are outright bigots and racists. I do not think it wise to give them some form power over any government. Perhaps it is time to do away with Preferences and in winning a seat they remain independent. Just some thoughts but it is certainly going to be an interesting year - can we afford another bad government? I don't think so, it is up to all of us, every person who have the right to vote men, women young and old but particularly the young many who can't be bothered; they want us to do the work to improve this nation for them - time for them to step forward and do their part - if they won't, increase the fines heavily and enforce the law. Yes- an interesting year for Australia but also for the rest of the world that is rapidly becoming chaos and more violent.
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    12:08pm
    Retirees especially have been marked to attacks on their income and assets. It'll continue.
    Labor? A bit unfair when I read posters and our lying government keep coming after unions when THE GOVERNMENT is supported by big business, a perverse relationship and betrayal of the nation, but yet that discussion is off the discussion list. If this lot is fair dinkum, they're not, then ban ALL donations and inducements and freebies from any and all group. They won't do that...but they will insist unions need to be closed down.
    BrianP
    7th Jan 2019
    12:05pm
    It is indeed time to vote independent or for a minor party (but not the Greens).

    We all must show the two main parties that the current system is not working for the benefit of all Australians.
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    12:11pm
    I agree....but to be certain I'd be thinking Labor this election and Independents next one if Labor fails to deliver. The problem currently is that we cannot afford to have the current coal traitors and class war government back again. IT JUST HAS TO GO.
    Hope you can see my logic. Safety vs a proper solution.
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    12:49pm
    Oh well done MICK, saviour of those who want to vote Independent. Call all who have an opinion different to you as trolls and pretend that what you do is squeaky clean and totally unbiased. But wait, there's more. You now say that you are THINKING of voting for your Labor bosses. There is not one regular on this site who ever doubted that you are a rusted on Labor stooge and you now claim that you are THINKING of voting Labor. Please don't take us for fools MICK, that would be a mistake.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jan 2019
    1:05pm
    Mick Labor won't deliver anything but higher taxes and a big recession than we should have. Independents are too wrapped up in their own little causes to have any affect on anything else.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    2:11pm
    I doubt Labor will deliver, Mick. They're too tied to their ideological pursuits for their most strident groups and their 'issues', real or not, so the rest of the nation will just have to wait for any relief.

    Just like 'curbing male v female violence' was the 'first step' to 'curbing violence in society as a whole' - the process that has stalled for over 25 years now with escalating casualties on both sides due to the ideological approach to it (using violence to control violence - yeah - that'll work!) - and has never gotten past stage one and never will without massive change. Yet Labrador are setting fair to ramp up the war on one side of that story, rather than shut down the violence government itself is using in that one-sided war.

    Expect casualties to rise... you don't get to bomb Pearl Harbour and expect to just walk away..... it's just not going to happen .. so Equal Rights NOW!
    Rae
    7th Jan 2019
    2:14pm
    And maybe save the SMSFs and the Aged Pensioners. You can guarantee Shorten's plan will add over half a million to pension numbers and no way can Centrelink cope now so imagine the chaos if that happens.

    The attack on SMSFs and favouring Industry Funds is just so obvious with this poorly thought out and discriminatory policy.

    And no I don't hold individual shares.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    4:42pm
    Shorten needs to shoot his advisors and get some new ones... his public utterances are rubbish..... and his reasoning just as bad....
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    5:26pm
    Ok doubters....tell me what will happen if the current crooks in suits are put back in? Retirement age up to 70. Family home in the assets test. Further restrictions on democracy and individual freedom. Company tax cuts brought in more tax for the rest of us.

    Only brain dead voters and trolls will refuse to see what has ALREADY been coming our way. Vote for whoever you like. Yes Independents are sounding better by the day but why not mortally wound a demoralised and destitute government which is on the ropes, give Labor a final fling and then execute it by going Independent the following election? Is that not a logical way to curb the devil and ruin the game for them? They'll know what is coming and will have a clear choice.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    8:38pm
    I'm advocating against both LNP and Labor (and greens) as they currently stand.....

    If Labor don't perform they will be shown the door as well... kind of a laborotomy... (I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy)...
    ex PS
    9th Jan 2019
    10:51am
    We can not afford to take the chance that we get saddled with this mob of no hoppers again, another term of self seeking self promotion at the expense of advancing the countries needs will finish us.
    I don't care who takes over as long as there is a change. Maybe a term as opposition will wake these parasites up, but I doubt it.
    patti
    7th Jan 2019
    12:16pm
    Funny, that. But why should we be surprised by this?
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    12:24pm
    Not surprised at all since it’s a YLC survey and Mick probably voted a thousand times
    Misty
    7th Jan 2019
    12:48pm
    As no doubt did you Lothario, along with OG and OM.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jan 2019
    1:02pm
    I didn't vote in it so that rules me out.
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    1:04pm
    I didn’t vote either
    Didn’t see tne point
    The questions were left biased so the outcome was predictable
    Misty
    7th Jan 2019
    1:36pm
    I didn't check Friday's YLC'S so I didn't vote either.
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    5:31pm
    I never voted at all.
    Retired Knowall
    7th Jan 2019
    8:05pm
    I voted, and it was Independent all the way.
    Lets get one point straight, don't get caught in the Preferential Net, Vote below the line, mark all boxes and PUT THE MAJOR PARTIES LAST.
    Make your vote count.
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    10:06pm
    Yes....but have you seen shopping trolleys at car parks and litter less than 5 metres from a bin? Australians are inherently lazy and many are grubs. I must be getting old!
    floss
    7th Jan 2019
    1:13pm
    Remember Joe Hockey put the LNP. last.
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    2:40pm
    No, Greens last (they supported Hockey's evil deed), Labor second last (they are going to do far worse than Hockey did), and LNP third last (maybe with a note that all three should be equal last and we want the lot of them GONE FOREVER!)
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    5:36pm
    OGR - if you put the LNP above Labor then you haven't been attacked enough. More coming. Whilst you hate Labor nothing could be worse for individuals or the nation than another term of savages getting us into even more debt than they have created complete with media delivering the propaganda.
    Oh yes...they'll sell off the ABC if put back in. Been cracking to do that but just need both houses to put it through. It'll happen. That's when we move countries so enjoy the results if that is how voters think...which I doubt!
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    6:23pm
    I've been attacked far too much, Mick, but Labor are going to finish the demolition job. I will fair far worse under Shorten - as will all retirees if only they realised what his policies will do to the economy. We all hate the LNP - well, all but the wealthy. Labor lie and deceive better, but they are the greater danger. In the end, both parties want the same outcome and they are working together to achieve it. 'Opposition' is just a game.
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    10:10pm
    You may be losing some franking credits but Shorten's amendments will hurt the wealthy much much more than average citizens.
    You may want to look at the overall picture and NEVER forget what the last 6 years has done to workers and retirees. It appears you are choosing to not confront the facts and I ask you to concentrate on the greater good. Yes we lose some franking credits too but the country will be better served to go after the tax evading top end and their corrupt outs of paying the correct amount of tax.
    Anonymous
    8th Jan 2019
    11:34am
    Dream on, Mick. Labor will NEVER tax the wealthy because they and their mates ARE the wealthy. They will continue to attack those they are attacking with franking credit policy - not anyone on a high income; not anyone with substantial superannuation; not anyone rich. Just the battlers on low incomes and SFRs with very modest assets. And you think that's a party that looks after average citizens?

    And then they perpetrate greater unfairness by favouring wealthier pensioners and folk who are lucky enough to have a pensioner in their fund as at a given date or who can bring younger folk paying substantial taxes in to absorb losses - at the younger person's expense, of course!

    Labor has never been the retiree's friend. It bought in means testing. It brought in the assets test. It raised the retirement age. And now it's making self-funding impossible for all but the very well off. And it has never been the friend of the 'average' citizen either. And the worst sins of the Libs have been since it tended a little more to the left!

    But my biggest concern is how Labor's unfair policies will flow on to economic deterioration. It's inevitable. We simply cannot afford to punish people for being hard working, prudent and responsible. We'll have no tax revenue at all if we demolish those who are contributing most. The rich will NEVER pay. They will always find ways to dodge. We NEED a healthy working and middle class to keep the treasury afloat.
    floss
    7th Jan 2019
    1:22pm
    Ban Unions you say that means you ban all working people, strange statement.Must be a Liberal supporter.
    KSS
    7th Jan 2019
    2:41pm
    And those in the Union's work for the business owners!

    Get rid of business owners by taxing them out of existence, close the mines, further damage industries such as manufacturing and construction and watch union membership fall even lower.

    Go the ALP!
    Misty
    7th Jan 2019
    2:54pm
    Not all unions are bad, they have done a lot for workers in this country over the years, all you union haters must be business owners wanting people to work all hours for peanuts, I wouldn't have got the working conditions and wage rises I did when I was working without the unions help.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    4:46pm
    It doesn't work that way, KSS - business has always had a fair shake from tax laws etc, and that will not change. It would be a shame to see some of their loop-holes closed, though.. how terrible for them.... and wow - a tax on money going offshore would be a killer..... but it's coming - has to worldwide to stop national economies bleeding to death with their life's blood pouring into the 'global economy' that benefits few.

    The French are sharpening their guillotines as we speak.... the Brits are sharpening their wits.... the Yanks are sharpening their tongues.... Australians are sharpening their bread knives so they can eat cake....
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    5:42pm
    floss - unions came about because business raped its employees. You always get comments like that from KSS, a troll, because that is who finances their party, which in turn employs them to post dishonest diatribe.

    Whilst I understand unions can also go bad one has to realise that without unions workers are picked off. That is what is happening and you only have to look at enterprise bargaining which started off with wonderful offers and now has become an employer's decree of 'take it or leave it' as there are another 20 people waiting for your job.

    I take little notice of KSS, OG, Lothario and OM posts when they run this party lie. Its plain no true but why spoil a good lie if people believe it??? This is how the crooked end of town works. No morals. No honesty. No decency. No credibility.
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    5:48pm
    Unions came about because gangsters found a way to make heaps of money from the worker and big business at the same time
    Ripping off the worker blind while destroying capitalism and all the good things it stands for
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    6:10pm
    Unions came about out of necessity to protect workers from being exploited, but then the gangsters saw an opportunity and moved in. Unions have done a lot of good, and some still do, but there is a mass exodus of workers from unions for good reasons - (1) they have become somewhat obsolete as a result of legislation to protect workers and better overall working conditions; and (2) the gangsters moved in.

    I've seen both sides of the equation. I was victim of shocking union failure and corruption, but I've also seen unions achieve excellent outcomes for workers. They have done a great deal of harm to business and the nation in some areas - like the waterfront for example, until Howard managed to sort that mess out.

    We need union power AND we need business power, but neither should be permitted to make political donations.
    Retired Knowall
    7th Jan 2019
    8:08pm
    From Foss "Ban Unions you say that means you ban all working people, strange statement.Must be a Liberal supporter."
    Please explain how it means banning all working people when Unions represent less than 15% of the workforce.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    8:47pm
    .. and who do you imagine it is that holds the line for worker's rights and pay scales, RK?? And submits an annual claim for wage rises?? And takes it on the chin time after time from bosses and government lackeys when they try to improve conditions and even safety???

    Do you seriously imagine your income - or that of your children and/or grand-children - would be as good as it is without a Union movement that brought worker's pay scales and conditions out of the Dark Ages?

    Towards the end of the 19th Century there were countless people working on properties - and not all Aboriginal, BTW - who were handed rations in return for work and possibly a little bit at Christmas... if they were good servants. It was (and is) called the Master/Servant relationship - and it was and is evil, and it killed people and children, just like the company store did.

    The workers got out of that by uniting and standing together..... now some Fascists here want to ban Unions... they daily rubbish the building unions and call them thugs (the thugs are the bosses who seek to remove food from those worker's children's mouths - but they wear suits so that's OK), and overlook the simple reality that the most highly membered unions are nurses, firefighters and police.

    Hello??? You want to bring Florence Nightingale down to size, and the firies, and the cops out there risking life and limb for you?

    I'd like to see that..... my father and one uncle were Firies - my other uncle a cop .... bring it on!!

    Try it at your peril.......
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    10:12pm
    Lothario - good try. Unions had nothing to do with gangsters (other than corporate crooks) and everything to do with rich people wanting slaves who they mistreated. You know that of course!
    Anonymous
    8th Jan 2019
    10:47am
    Mick, a lot of union leaders turned bad when they got a bit of power.
    Retired Knowall
    9th Jan 2019
    9:14am
    You are living in the past trebor, Union Membership is only 15% of the workforce for a reason.
    You mentioned Nurses & Firies and fail to mention that the Union heads of these Unions have been prosecuted for Fraud.
    I've worked in Unionised and Non union Industries and the Non Unionised had better pay and conditions and was far more productive.
    From what I have experienced for over 50 years in the workforce is that Unions are there to protect the Bludging Brother.
    We needed Unions in the 19th Century, but, it may help you to check the Calendar.
    Retired Knowall
    9th Jan 2019
    9:50am
    BTW Trebor, you failed to answer my original question and add why it's only 15% of the workforce.
    Also tell us why the Unions wanted the Vic. Rural Fire Service unionised and the members all refused and threatened to resign.
    Misty
    7th Jan 2019
    1:29pm
    Governments all around the world are having problems, Australia is just one of many.
    MarkAdel
    7th Jan 2019
    1:39pm
    Why would you vote for a black mailing independent? How would you like the electorate next to you get preferential treatment just because people voted for an independent that won’t vote for the elected government unless they get what they want. The LNP is doing a good, not great, job. Want to see more immigration, more unemployment, higher interest rates, more union demands. Vote Labor.
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    3:55pm
    Hilarious! I bet that earned you a few bucks from your beloved LNP.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    4:50pm
    They're black and send mail? You learn something new every day......

    Seats always get preferential treatment depending on their volatility in an election or their favourite child status..... sometimes it's "starve 'em and make 'em unhappy with their current member", or its "feed 'em fat and make 'em happy to stay with their current member"....

    Look at Gladys down there in The Big Smoke (the nitty, gritty, ...... city) and her billions for ovals.... when highways are in desperate need....
    Misty
    7th Jan 2019
    4:53pm
    And hospitals and aged care facilities and certainly roads in the country, we always seem to be 2nd class citizens after the big cities these days.
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    5:46pm
    Ha ha ha. Markadel? A new face?
    "Blackmailing" is a word normally reserved for low life Liberal Party MPs who wait until election time and then trot out all manner of accusations and lies to discredit Labor. Broadcast by their media cousins. Just turn on the main News stations the closer we get to the election. Already well under way. It'll get worse.

    Can I put you down as the next troll? Better still tell me your IP number so that I can cross reference you with the known offenders funded by the same rats.
    Retired Knowall
    7th Jan 2019
    8:12pm
    Ever heard of Pork Barreling MarkAdel, popular with both labor & LNP.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    10:16pm
    Tried The Lakes Way lately, Misty? I know it well, and even then I sometimes have trouble - when it rains heavily water sits in two ruts made by wheels and it's perpetual sliding of rubber on water... scary as hell at night, especially on narrow bits with oncoming traffic ... then there are the narrow bits winding through the hills.... and with holiday drivers who don't know the road, it's downright scary.... don't ask about the caravans, campers and backpackers .....

    Whole road could benefit from Gladys $2Bn - but they argue endlessly over who should fund it... State or Fed since some is through national parks, or council..... council has been doing a good job on bits.... but with the traffic it takes - it needs a major upgrade all along.
    Misty
    8th Jan 2019
    12:16am
    No Trebor I haven't but if it is anything like some of the supposed highways around here I can imagine what it would be like.
    Charlie
    7th Jan 2019
    1:47pm
    Allowing labor and greens to get into a position of power is about the worst thing that can happen to Australia.

    Extreme left perversion is about at the height of its power.

    Everyone knows the leftist agenda which is opening the doors on, refugees problems, aboriginal problems, gender/sex problems, extreme feminist problems, invention of new human rights issues, uncompromising energy management. Weak terrorist control.

    Voting for an independent party may be the same as voting for a liberal/labor/Greens stooge, pretending to be independent.
    KSS
    7th Jan 2019
    2:43pm
    Look at Karen Phelps!
    Misty
    7th Jan 2019
    3:06pm
    Couldn't be any worse then the extreme right Coalition Charlie, if the Coalition do not get rid of their old dead wood, get more women into parliament and for goodness sake UNITE they will certainly lose the next election.
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    3:57pm
    We need more wimmin in parliament? No, they tend to make lousy politicians.
    Misty
    7th Jan 2019
    4:51pm
    Couldn't do any worse then the men Knows-a-lot, see what they have done to this country the last few years.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    4:53pm
    I'll pass, KSS - we need politicians who are full time on the job - THAT job only - not doing a side stint on a council or running a personal business such as a medical practice...

    We should pay 'em by the hour or day of actual work........

    We need more good people in Parliament - sex optional.. wait a minute... ummmm... that's not quite right ..... gender is not relevant if they can do the job... now where is that hisher or whatever out of the 63 'genders' that can do the job???
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    5:49pm
    Charlie - I get it but why throw the baby out with the bathwater? Write to the MPs concerned. All of them. Your alternative is to vote LNP and then wonder what has happened to the ABC, why you have to drop dead on the job, why the family home has suddenly been packaged into the assets test and why your taxes are going through the roof. Its not rocket science. Its the LNP and its big business masters at work. People can't be that stupid...............
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    6:28pm
    Mick, I wrote to Labor MPs. Their response finally firmed my resolve to put them last. They said ''It won't affect that many people''. Not one word of response to the valid issues I raised, point by point, and they completely ignored the specific questions I asked. Then Short-on made that arrogant 'up hill and down dale' remark, which yelled loudly that he is not qualified to lead. Leaders listen and consider. They do not shout 'my way or the highway' and turn their backs.
    Charlie
    7th Jan 2019
    7:09pm
    I am more frightened of some of the weird futuristic things that labor and Greens are likely to support, than the good old fashioned crap from the Liberals, I am familiar with.
    Sundays
    7th Jan 2019
    7:59pm
    Rainey, I see their point. Investment by individuals in Australian shares is rising mostly young people with jobs who will get refund of Franking Credits. Large super funds are the biggest investors and my large fund took the initiative of writing to members detailing how the fund is a taxpayer and individuals in the fund are highly unlikely to be affected. Shorten has pensioners and SMSF with at least one pensioner covered. So who is left. Those with small SMSF who have no income on which they pay tax, or those with large balances who the policy is targeting. It doesn’t make it right, but in an election year it will be palatable to many, unfair definitely but that is the reality.
    Sundays
    7th Jan 2019
    8:11pm
    If Labor are elected, they will still have to get this past the Senate. Not an easy task
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    8:58pm
    That's the whole secret of all the promises, Sundays - not their fault once that devilish 'hostile Senate' rejects the nonsense they promised... both sides play that game...

    That's why I farcically offer two lobsters in every pot, free education for all, and full employment on top wages/salaries and so forth - if elected Lifetime President...

    The reality I'm pointing to is that nine times out of the a party or politician can promise the world, but it will never get past the guardians at the gate if it's too stupid or selfish or just plain silly.

    If elected, I promise to pay women full pay for every day off doing their biggest job - dropping kids!! Take as much time as you want, girls - the boss will pay for it - and if/when he can't (which is bloody obvious, FCS) - the government has very full pockets... except when it comes to those in genuine need out there.... buggar them!! Remember that the idiotic idea of paying super for women when they're not working - not extended to the sick the lame and the bums out of work, but ONLY to women dropping - is just that foot in the door to paying you a full income for every day of your life regardless of whether you work or not, and ONLY for women!!!!!

    Just vote for us and it's all yours.....

    You reckon that will get past the senate?
    Sundays
    7th Jan 2019
    9:13pm
    I agree Trebor. The senate is meant to be the house of review, and mostly does a good job in stopping rush of blood to the head policies. Unfortunately, Sometimes those who hold the balance of power do ‘deals’ which only benefit them while the rest of us wonder what happened. For this reason, I am sceptical of minor parties and some independents. However, if you’re promising lobster, you have my vote!
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    10:15pm
    An assumption that Labor will not have the support of the senate, unless it is a LNP controlled senate where you get Abbott mk2.
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    10:18pm
    The senate might not approve the lobsters.. no sense of humour...
    TREBOR
    7th Jan 2019
    10:19pm
    Mick - very rarely does the Australian voting public have a government hold both houses... what a wreck it would be if they did.....
    Anonymous
    8th Jan 2019
    12:50pm
    Sundays, if the franking credit policy doesn't affect many people, why do it? It won't save money. Those it impacts will be likely to move to reliance on the OAP, creating a heavier drain on taxpayers than giving them a small cash rebate to enable independence. As for those with high balances - who Labor CLAIMS to be targeting - the TBC caught up with them and now that they ARE paying tax, Labor will allow them to continue claiming their credits.

    The policy is based on outdated data. That was one of the questions I raised - what are the projected savings based on CURRENT data - but nobody in the ALP seems willing to answer. I also asked how many of the low income SFRs affected will move to pensions earlier and what will that cost. Again, no response. And I asked how much have they budgeted to lose due to changes in investment strategy. That question one did answer, stating that the budget was $0 because it was not possible to estimate, given that it required predictions based on guessing psychological reactions. Well, yes! But it's very relevant! You can't simply say $0 because you can't predict with any accuracy!
    Jim
    7th Jan 2019
    3:28pm
    The LNP will be out at the next election, that has been obvious for a long time, and they deserve to be given the boot, but Labor do not deserve to be in government, unfortuanately that will be the case, you see a lot of ridiculous comments on this site, comparing the LNP to Hitler has long been mooted by some commentators which is ridiculous, there are certainly some right wing members in the current government but they are in the minority, and for some commentators to call the opposition a bunch of communists is equally ridiculous and shows a lack of knowledge of the members of the opposition, sure there are some left wingers in the opposition but again I suspect they are in the minority, Bill Shorten is right wing and there is little difference between him and Turnbull so if you hated Turnbull then I can’t understand why anyone would vote to have Labor running the country, the issue I have with Labor getting in power is that I am concerned with the influence that the Greens will have in policy making, we will have to hope that Labor get a big enough majority that they don’t have to rely on support from the crazies in the Green Party, I still fear a Labor party that has made envy politics its main platform and the attacks they have made on pensioners is a guideline as to how they are going to approach governing the country. To answer to some of the ridiculous claims that people on this site are paid trolls for either party is beyond belief or maybe they are just having senior moments, I suppose we all have them now and again, but most of us don’t put them in print.
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    3:59pm
    Envy politics? Hardly. It's the LNP who have declared class war on the poor and working class.
    Jim
    7th Jan 2019
    4:20pm
    I have seen your comments before and commented before there is no class warfare in Australia, it’s how extreme left wingers would like to portray the current government, it’s a ridiculous comment, most people have never been better off, and it has nothing to do with the current government, it’s called progress all governments have improved the life of the majority of people, some people as always are doing it tough, but it’s nothing to do with class warfare, as I have commented before I was born in the 40s and there was definitely the have’s and the have not’s that could have been classed as some sort of class difference, today anyone can do well no matter what their background is, the left wing around the world are trying to create a new form of class warfare that doesn’t exist, but they have an agenda and are using envy politics to pursue their agenda.
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    5:53pm
    Well said Knows-a-lot.
    "Envy" is a word Turnbull used to justify giving the top of society high tax cuts. "Trickle Down Economics" was the next lie to sell it as providing heaps of jobs......which it never did in any country where the wealthy got the next round of tax cuts.

    Indeed the game is on and those with limited intelligence will be conned. A bit like selling ice to Eskimos. The LNP is good at this.
    ex PS
    7th Jan 2019
    6:21pm
    This mob have had a chance and achieved very little, time to give someone else a go.
    Jim
    7th Jan 2019
    7:12pm
    As usual Mick pushes the envy politics that was Labor’s catcall until they realised how ridiculous it was, I repeat there is no class warfare in Australia, the proof is in the amount of people on this site that have come from a working class background and now have that much in money and assets that they are not eligible for a pension, and many claim they worked for slave wages and some even retired in their 50’s not bad for a country that some claim is in a class warfare, I must be in the wrong class because I almost get the full pension, and a little bit from my franking credits, well at the moment I do, who knows what the future holds, Shorten has stated he won’t touch the franking credits for people like me, and politicians always tell the truth.
    Misty
    7th Jan 2019
    9:53pm
    Jim you might like to know that there are over a million children are living in poverty right now, that is according to the Smith Family, so not everyone is doing well here.
    Anonymous
    7th Jan 2019
    9:59pm
    Misty / absolute rubbish
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    10:18pm
    Turnbull crowed "politics of envy" many times. At the same time he was exposed as having the family wealth in a blatant offshore tax haven and on top of that gave himself generous tax cuts whilst saying he would push on with company tax cuts in the future.
    Tell me about envy and then tell me about the crooked top end of town milking the system and crying foul whenever anybody tries to stop their feeding frenzy.
    Misty
    8th Jan 2019
    12:18am
    And how would you know Lothario?
    Jim
    8th Jan 2019
    7:59am
    Misty I have also seen the report from the Smith family that there are 1.1 million children living in poverty, the official figure of children living in poverty is 790,000 both figures if true are a disgrace in a country as wealthy as Australia, but it’s the way that poverty is categorised that is a bit confusing, 50% of the median wage seems to be the guideline for determining poverty, if you are below this figure you are considered to be living in poverty, but wouldn’t where you live be a major factor, if you you were living in Sydney or Perth or I guess any capital city the cost of living would be higher than a rural area? All that aside the point I was making regarded envy politics of the Labor party and other socialist governments around the world, coming from the 40s I have seen real poverty, we would have loved to have 50% of even the basic wage, the point of my comment was that things are a lot better for the majority of people, I did make the comment that there are people struggling, so I do realise that not everyone is doing great, but can anyone honestly say that things are not better now than they were in our parents day, I doubt it very much, but no doubt some will try. I repeat class warfare is a myth.
    Adrianus
    8th Jan 2019
    9:13am
    "Bill Shorten is right wing "

    LOL

    As you say Jim, we all have a seniors moment. :)
    Misty
    8th Jan 2019
    10:06am
    Jim in some ways I agree with you and in some I don't, when I grew up in the 50's jobs were more plentiful and most guaranteed for life, Mums were able to stay home with their children, now days most families need both parents working just to survive. Cost of living is much higher in the country, food and fuel cost more then in the cities, although house prices and rents may be lower and even this out to some extent. I do feel for the young ones who can only get contract work, the stress is terrible for them, living from contract to contract, it would be hard to get a mortgage for anything, especially these days with the banks tightening up on loans after the RC.
    Anonymous
    8th Jan 2019
    10:56am
    Seeing how some 'poverty-stricken' families spend, I have to wonder about the figures. I'm sure there are lots doing it tough, but 'poverty' today isn't what it used to be. From my observation - and that of many I know who work for Smith Family or St Vinnies - careless budgeting and overspending is by far the major cause of hardship. I feel for those with disabilities, chronic ill health, or who genuinely struggle to find work, and I think conditions for those forced onto welfare are deteriorating, but overall our living standards today are high and I think the challenge for those who are battling is more to do with keeping up. That's not entirely their fault. When schools demand that kids have expensive uniforms, books, computers, and money for excursions, for example, it puts pressure on parents. It's hard to deny kids the things their friends have. But we are a spendthrift society and have a borrowing mentality. Many claiming 'poverty' could actually do quite well being a little more careful of their spending.
    ex PS
    9th Jan 2019
    10:58am
    When the Labor Party assumes power they should be treated exactly the same as the Lib/Nationals, the voting public should let them know, meet your election promises, act in the best interests of the nation or suffer the same fate as the current mob.
    Politicians need to be reminded in the strongest terms that they work for us and they are expected to keep there promises.
    DaveL
    7th Jan 2019
    4:13pm
    Vote independent. If you having franking credits, stop your Charity donations if Labor get in. Recover some of the lost cash.
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    5:56pm
    We'll lose money with the franking credits cut as well and I have suggested Labor either tops up income to pension level of alternatively has a threshold where franking credits reduce to nil. Either would work.
    I agree with your sentiments about this and I have plugged Independents for years. Everybody who reads my blog knows that. My only caveat is that this election is different and the number one goal should be to cripple the LNP in a big way so that it will back off with its attacks on citizens in future. The absolute worst outcome is to vote them back in.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jan 2019
    7:27pm
    Mick they need to get rid of that no tax after 60 on super. That is the real problem and that only helps the wealthy and does nothing for anyone else. Pollies love it.
    Sundays
    7th Jan 2019
    7:43pm
    What is your thinking here OG. After tax contributions have already been taxed. Before tax contributions including those made by your employer are generally taxed at 15% depending on your salary. Why should people pay more tax when they withdraw the money after 60?
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    10:21pm
    I'd agree with you OG. Of course money into super and income from the fund are taxed at 15% before pensions are withdrawn but the issue is the top end of town in particular have used superannuation as a tax evasion mechanism. Legal, but a policy set up specifically to benefit the rich....who milk it for all it is worth.
    Sundays
    7th Jan 2019
    10:58pm
    Close the loophole but dont penalise ordinary workers
    Anonymous
    8th Jan 2019
    10:40am
    If the superannuation tax system was reformed, we'd save billions more than by changing franking credit refunds unfairly, and we'd create a much fairer and more prosperous society overall. Currently, the high income earner saves 30% on tax on superannuation contributions and income, but the low income earner saves little or nothing. If we reform that so that the tax on super is not 15%, but rather 15% LESS than the member's marginal tax rate, and where that results in negative tax, issue a tax refund as a cash contribution to the member's super, we would boost the retirement income of low income earners and reduce the hoarded wealth of high income earners, who do not need taxpayer support to retire - but the continued reduction would ensure the incentive to invest in super was not removed. Increased incentive and capacity for lower income earners would drive increased investment overall. The savings to the budget would be massive, as the superannuation tax concession currently costs more than the aged pension and the cost is rising rapidly.

    Continuing the same tax system on pensions in retirement would improve fairness, provided a universal aged pension was also paid. That would then remove the current incentive to manipulate by over-investing in housing or gifting to secure pension benefits.

    Neither party will consider this reform because it increases overall taxes on the wealthy. Labor has chosen, instead, to unfairly tax the less well off who invest in shares paying franked dividends, and it is PRETENDING that this is fair by lying about who it impacts and denying that SFRs contribute a huge amount to the Treasury just by funding their own retirement. It seems the Libs prefer to save money by cutting welfare and services. Neither constitutes a good solution. Neither is fair. Neither is economically sustainable. Why on earth can't we just see some good, down-to-earth common sense and mutual respect? Advisors have repeatedly stated the huge benefits of reforming the super tax system. There has been plenty of evidence of the benefits of a universal age pension. It beggars belief that both major parties can continue down the same destructive road.
    Hairy
    7th Jan 2019
    6:46pm
    Yes I will vote for any independent who does not sell my vote to the major party’s .kattef did that to me last time . Never again.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jan 2019
    7:25pm
    You vote will go to either major party under or preferential system as that is what it has been designed to do.
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    10:21pm
    Not if you vote below the line and number your choices.
    Anonymous
    8th Jan 2019
    10:29am
    Preferential voting does not mean that preferences are allocated automatically. Preferences are only allocated according to a candidate's preference if you follow their 'how to vote' instructions. There is a factor called 'leakage', which his when a voter specifies his own preferences and ignores 'how to vote' cards. Sadly, it's only about 5% in Australia - due either to party loyalty, ignorance or laziness.

    We should be encouraging all Australians to join the 'leakers' and specify their own preferences. Preferential voting is actually more democratic than first past the post IF it is implemented correctly - but we need 100% leakage for it to work as it should.
    ardnher
    11th Jan 2019
    9:16am
    It amazes me ill informed people are on what actually happens to their vote. "You" decide where your vote goes. Don't follow the how to vote card...make up your own mind .if you dont want it to go to a certain person.
    Dot
    7th Jan 2019
    9:26pm
    Those who thinking of voting for Labor or one of the other lefty Parties you are signing your death warrant. As a former Labor voter there's no way in the world I'll vote for them again. Just take a good look around you and how many Dinky Di Aussies do you see employed, every where I go I only see foreigners. Yes I'll will say it's only taken just under 20 years to change the colour of Australia. Never liked Trump but he says what a good potion of us think but can't say anything because we'd be called racists. I'd like to apologise to all those beautiful young men who sacrificed their lives defending this county.
    Misty
    7th Jan 2019
    9:58pm
    What has Labor got to do with foreigners Dot, migrants were welcomed here by every government ( Not talking about Asylum Seekers, they are a different kettle of fish).
    Misty
    7th Jan 2019
    10:16pm
    Oh and by the way Dot my husband was a migrant and contributed to the building of the Snowy Scheme, he and his brother were welcomed here by the govt of the day along with thousands of other very qualified and willing workers and have helped make Australia the country it is today. They brought with them so may different things that enhanced our way of life, their culture, their food are just 2 examples. Our town has many nationalities in it and is all the richer for them being here, Chinese, Thai, German, Austrian, Greek, English ,Italian,Swiss, Checoslavakian, Hungarian, Russian, Latvian, Indonesian, Phillipines, Malaysian, New Zealand, Irish, Scottish, just to name a few. 2 of my daughters-in-law are from different countries, Thailand and New Zealand and my husband was from Austria.
    Misty
    7th Jan 2019
    10:18pm
    Sorry about the spelling mistakes, watching the tennis, Fast 4 in Sydney.
    MICK
    7th Jan 2019
    10:29pm
    Dot - Take a long hard look at the past 6 years. Then look at the nasty and dishonest demeanour of government MPs who you see and read about every other day. Then tell me you could/would vote for such people.
    The current batch have sold out the country before and have done it again since Abbott came to power. Howard let Gorgon be sold to foreigners and this lot have been flogging off our most valuable food producing land to foreign governments. And then lets discuss the current total Australian debt of over $7 billion:

    http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/clocks

    You may want to spend some time discerning the facts rather than attacking the party you do not like. There is a difference.
    Misty
    7th Jan 2019
    10:37pm
    Dot it might also have something to do with, "Dinky Di Aussies", not wanting to work in many of those jobs, for many reasons, too far from home, feel the job is beneath them, are just 2 examples.
    Anonymous
    8th Jan 2019
    10:24am
    I don't necessarily agree with Dot, but I understand what she means and I sympathise. It's not a matter of not appreciating the contribution immigrants have made to this country, but it's becoming a game of 'spot the Aussie' and we are losing our identity. We need immigration, but we must have a system that limits numbers appropriately and is selective. And I don't think it fair to say Aussies are lazy or don't want to work, but I think most of us want to ensure is that our standard of living doesn't fall as a result of importing cheap labour. When people come in who will work for less than Australians expect, we have to decide whether Aussies should work for less and reduce living standards or whether to legislate to retain our living standards - which unfortunately often doesn't work because employers ignore the law and desperate employees will take jobs on any terms.

    I do think our comparatively high living standards have conditioned Australians to have higher expectations of lifestyle than many immigrants, and lifestyle includes working less hours and under better conditions. Is that a bad thing? Is it really a good thing to bring in a lot of people whose expectations are lower? And to what extent is immigration now attracting people who won't work but want to exploit our welfare system? Are we being sufficiently selective? I think many Australians would say 'no'.

    I do think Labor has generally been much less selective in the past and has allowed larger numbers than was good for the nation at the time, but I think now the two parties are on a par with regard to immigration. Where Labor is perhaps imposing more risk is it's attitude to refugees. While we should be compassionate, we cannot afford to allow immigration that puts our own safety and living standards at risk. Many 'refugees' are not genuine. And a recent documentary exposed a salient point - that only the strongest are able to flee, and if we take them in we are leaving the weak to suffer without any strong to fight for them and take care of them. The most compassionate act might be to send the refugees back to fight for better conditions in their own country and to do what they can to care for their own.
    TS
    8th Jan 2019
    9:17am
    Judging by the tenor of many correspondents on this page and on a previous about Senator Anning the magazine is attracting a large number of grumpy, One Nation type supporters who find a multicultural nation upsetting. Maybe they are looking for some Golden Age when white males ruled and life was simple. As for those who seem to support Anning and the others but who think that denying Nazi style salutes and comments were made.......can’t be a little bit pregnant.
    If these potential deserters from the main parties ( who have faults galore) think that flirting with Pauline will benefit
    anyone apart from her then they really are delusional.
    Chris B T
    8th Jan 2019
    9:26am
    A Life Time Ago (almost a fairy tale these days) we used to train and educate our young to be useful and employed.
    Now there is no level of training from the past ie, trades, semi skilled etc. We just import them, so our lot struggle to find a job as there no significant training provided. Dumb down education so kids have to stay at school to year 12 instead of 10. Just like they did before in the sixty's but at least there where Home Grown Jobs and training.
    Now we provide wholesale Education for Those who live in the Asia/Pacific Region as a money Making Venture.
    This is from the 2 Party/Preferred System with the Help of Minor Party's and Independents who voted in Parliament.
    This is only 1 Problem of Hundreds So how on earth Can We Fix a Broken System that no matter Who You Vote For nothing will change.
    The Fairy Tale of Who is Better than ME continues with the Help of Self Rightest Minor Party's and Independents who do grubby Deals.
    (;-(0)
    MICK
    8th Jan 2019
    9:49am
    You may be mirroring society as a whole where you can't publish results lest those who do not achieve are upset and you do not discipline because that may hurt self esteem and you do not fail because nobody is allowed to fail.
    Education has come a long way and the continual crowing about getting the "best teachers" misses the point that you have to value the best. The reality is the best are bailing out at age 57 when they can access their super because they being paid like junior clerks, often have a high workload and are being used as proverbial punching bags on a daily basis whilst politicians continue to pile the next feel good curriculum on them and then cry about the results of mismanagement on a national level.
    Its more than the minor parties. They're all in the game and all take the easy option. Teachers are the whipping posts and I have to laugh when politicians lament about teachers telling their students to avoid teaching. Pollies might like to try this profession themselves under the rules THEY have implemented.
    Chris B T
    8th Jan 2019
    10:55am
    How is what I said Relating To Teachers, It's about Dumb Down Education so the Pupils Stay At School longer.This is not a Teacher Request, rather a Putting off The En eatable NO JOB NO FURTHER JOB TRAINING.
    Teachers no matter how They Came To Be A Teacher Have a Curriculum to Follow.
    Keeping pupils longer at School was only Delaying Tactic.
    In the 60/70's there were Hundreds of Trade Training Positions. That a small Trade Training Provider Would Be about 50 per year at one Place a large Provider Would Be 100 pIus per year.There were many that employed 10 per year now considered a large employer. I lived this era and enjoyed The Training after Leaving School at Year 10 as Thousand Others did.How is staying at School for 2 More Years Improved on The OLD SYSTEM.
    When there is No Job No Further Training to Become a Trade person or other wise. Then to say we need Skilled Workers and IMPORT THEM.Both Party's and Those Grubby Dealers OWN THIS OUTCOME.
    As I said this is ONLY 1 PROBLEM of Hundreds, it will not Change No Matter Who You Vote For.
    Very Sad for the Young Ones.
    Ardnaher
    8th Jan 2019
    9:59am
    This poll is not at all reliable. People can do it time and time again.
    If people want higher taxes, inheritance tax, end of negative gearing, no more franked dividends (if you are not a tax payer) then by all mean vote Labor.
    Be prepared for the boats to start up again as well
    Misty
    8th Jan 2019
    10:12am
    What rot Noodles, you have been listening to too much of Peter Dutton's propaganda, No way will Labor ever let the Asylum Seeker trade start up again, it would be political suicide and they know it.
    Misty
    8th Jan 2019
    10:23am
    I also wonder how many boats have been stopped coming to Australia since the Coalition took office, could be 2 could be 2 thousand for all we know, as we are never told, just as we were never told about all the people brought to Australia from Manus and Nauru for various reasons, what happened to the saying,"Never set foot in Australia", seems that has gone out the window.
    Anonymous
    8th Jan 2019
    1:12pm
    Most unwanted are coming by plane. Always have done.
    Radish
    8th Jan 2019
    3:30pm
    I listen to what is said and I also read Misty. I will NOT be voting Labor and anyone with an ounce of sense will not either.
    Misty
    8th Jan 2019
    4:14pm
    Thankfully Radish we live in a country where we can vote for who we like.
    Misty
    8th Jan 2019
    4:34pm
    Since December 2013 until June 2018 there have been 33 boats sent back, some assisted, some taken and some turned back.
    ardnher
    11th Jan 2019
    9:23am
    That is exactly the point the boats have been stopped!
    Misty
    11th Jan 2019
    11:00am
    No they haven't, they are still trying, one got as far as the QLND coast, they did get all the people eventually but they are still trying to get here.
    travelman
    8th Jan 2019
    11:45am
    OGR and a few others of you are off your 'trolleys' when it comes to unions. A bit of history that we should all learn from. As an apprentice in a shipyard in England in the 1950's I joined the union, I even studied to be union rep. It did not take me long to realise what was wrong with the union and the truth was and is still today-it is its lazy, disinterested members. At meetings, they should have attended to support good, honest leaders and reps, they didn't attend. There were plenty of communists at the meetings but not to support the union but instead vote in their own commie mates. Why? It was the 'Cold War' period and the communists saw the unions as a prime political tool to destroy the British economy and the British government by creating a lot discontent, with strikes that would crippled industry and jobs. And they achieved it; the communists had power and numbers in the union and manipulated the workers, with lies and deceptions, to go on strike after strike. Hundreds upon hundreds of shipyards closed because they could not meet their commitments to their clients and so took their business to other shipyards in other countries. The sad joke is that all those union members, by taking care of their union could have saved their jobs, instead, they had to go to those other countries to get work because there was no work for them in England. The communists wanted to get political dominance in England for dear old 'Uncle Joe Stalin' but thank God international circumstances changed and their plot collapsed.

    I said history and there is this point about history, it is this, we are still are not learning from history. I have been a union rep in Australia, for the Clerical Union and later for the Nursing Union. I have been in meetings where only a few members attend except for those who want to pervert the union for their own power gains. I have seen union membership in both those unions shrink; "We don't need unions, they just create problems", is the clarion cry by those who are too lazy to get off fat arses to consider looking after their union. A good strong union is often a good asset for an employer for both together can help that company grow. I have seen it happen and have been part of an industry grow. I have also seen the worst of a Prime Minister with his "Work Choices" where bad employers were able to 'bleed' their employees financially in reducing their wages; have we not all seen that. Bad employers are on the increase like an epidemic, simply because we have Federal government who wants to destroy the unions by removing regulatory laws? Unions are the only hope for the ordinary worker, the only hope and right to form themselves into a body, organisation to protect themselves from injustice -that is their Constitutional right. Remove that right then all their children and their children's children are at the mercy of governments and employers putting them into work place conditions of two centuries ago. One might believe that we will face a new type of slavery and with more A.I that could be a probability and a threat to most of our children. Two things are important to this nation right now as we move towards the 22nd century - one, sound, stable and efficient government FOR ALL our nation and two, employer/employee working in harmony, with honestly and integrity. A union structure where people are involved for the moral good of the employer and employee is essential if there is to be growth and harmony. Please, do not demean the unions for the sake of a few 'bad apples' - better to be involved so that the 'bad apples' are thrown out.
    Anonymous
    8th Jan 2019
    1:11pm
    travelman, I don't know why you addressed your comment to me, because I have never supported abolishing unions. I credit them with doing a lot of good. I merely said that union leaders had abused their power in many cases - and they have. And union membership is falling, and that's partly because of worker apathy. But apathy arises from good working conditions reducing need OR from union failure. Where unions are needed and doing good, workers will support them and participate enthusiastically. Sadly, the more successful they are, the more apathy we risk and sometimes doing their job well means losing member interest!

    I will give you an example of why I, personally, contributed to unions only when it was compulsory, and quickly lost interest in supporting the union. A union planned to go on strike over a political issue (not a job-related issue). The union was using funds contributed by workers who opposed its political position to push its political agenda and now it wanted members to sacrifice pay to support its agenda. But before allowing a vote to go on strike or not, the leader announced that he had made arrangements for the higher paid members to be put on an emergency call roster and paid for the time they were on strike. Only those least able to afford to strike would lose. The workers voted to strike, with only one man standing up and protesting the wrong and asking what the higher paid would contribute to feel the families of the unpaid strikers. Response: NOTHING. A further complaint arose when I discovered that the union had demanded members hired in December pay a full year's membership fee, but declared them non-members on January 1 and required them to pay again. They were not warned that membership ran along the calendar year. And a third major complaint arose when a serious safety issue was brought to the attention of a union leader who replied ''It doesn't put me at risk, and I'm on a good wicket here so I don't wish to rock the boat. Suck it up or leave". BTW. The members of this union were among the lowest paid in the nation for their skill level and they put their lives at risk daily, but the union opposed a push for danger money claiming and average of 1 death and 1 serious injury per year from a team of 10 did not constitute 'significant risk'.
    The last straw was discovering that the employer was paying very high workers' comp insurance for workers in this job that was 'not dangerous' - because it WAS very dangerous and the payout rates were high. The union therefore did a secret deal with the employer to allow the insurance premium to be paid out of the worker's superannuation! Many workers didn't discover this until they resigned or retired and discovered they had virtually nothing in a super fund that should have been quite healthy.

    Now I concede that this was ONE union among many, and others did great things for members. Unions protecting wharfies surely got them a good deal, at the expense of the rest of the nation. Other unions did good things for both worker and country. And we NEED unions to reduce the power of employers to exploit and to protect workers from poor working conditions and dangerous and unhealthy workplaces. It's just a sad fact that power - wherever it exists - is inevitably exploited by some, and unions are no exception.

    8th Jan 2019
    1:54pm
    Its easy in a survey to say I wont vote Liberal his time But any retirees - eithr SFF or on age pension should ne wary of voting Labor to punish them. As you may well be punishing yourself.
    Many see a repeat of 2007 with Shorten doing a Rudd. Boats will start up again for sure meaning more debt as all arrivals go onto welfare and Muslims stay there til age pension and beyond as return home.
    Labor cut the age pension for married couples sneakily in 2009. Left media failed to report except for one bloke in Financial Times. As the debt will start rising immediately Labor start os spending unwisely as they always end up doing. Pink Batts Gym halls last time. And then left NDIS unfunded for a trap for incoming Liberals. Not the Labor it once was. No longer really represents the worker pensioner battlers. Hawke took that first donation from big business and brought in The Accord which held back wages til 96 and Howard. Unions should have stopped supporting Labour - didn't and lost members fast. Could have lobbied and got wages higher - but just looked after themselves. Shame, a once good party no longer.
    Misty
    8th Jan 2019
    5:53pm
    That is your opinion Warrior, what has the current lot done for the pensioners and workers since they came to office, BU..ER ALL I say, and all their supposed good job figures etc are all done with smoke and mirrors. Until the Coalition get rid of certain aged Far Right Wing members, get more women into parliament and UNITE, they will lose the next election, the young voters don't want a bar of them.
    Adrianus
    9th Jan 2019
    8:41am
    I agree Warrior. If Labor win it will be a repeat of the Rudd,Gillard,Rudd shocker. The second worst government period in Australia's history.
    The Unions had their man Bill Shorten in charge before the 2007 election. The erratic behaviour and policy settings were a result of union demands. Make no mistake, Bill Shorten only enjoys his position of authority while he does what he is told.
    ex PS
    9th Jan 2019
    11:10am
    Adrianus, as apposed to the Abbot, Turnbull, and this new blokes shocker. Only one of them didn't do as he was told and the backroom boys soon replaced him, and then replaced his replacement, who at least is doing what he is told. You buy or lease a coach and then fly everywhere, just about puts the LNP financial planning abilities in its true light.
    You have constantly told us that the Unions no longer have any power because they are in decline, so I must assume that they will have no power over a Labor government, after all they will be voted in by a majority of non Union sympathizers won't they.
    Or am I mistaken, does a " Union Thug" get more than one vote?
    I am assuming that when you downgrade a Labor government to second place, it is to award the honor our to the current one.
    Adrianus
    9th Jan 2019
    12:50pm
    exPS, your accusations would have merit if you quoted me but you wont quote me because I have never stated the Unions have no power. Far from it, I am depressed at them having far too much power.
    Seems all the ex unionists are coming out of the woodwork here. Getting a little excited at the prospect of getting back into government and screwing the country.
    Prior to the last fed election, Bill Shorten was asked when Labor/Unions/Greens/Independents actually had a budget surplus. As I recall, Bill did not know, but added that it was when he was an adult. Well I don't know when Bill became an adult, not that it matters if he did at all, however, he was 22 years old and the year was 1989.
    ardnher
    10th Jan 2019
    1:47pm
    totally agree Adrianus. Shorten is there only because he does what he is told.

    On a different tack. Does anyone remember the time he was asked if he agreed with something that Gillard had said? This was his response "I don't know what she said, but whatever it was I agree with!!"
    can view it here and do have a look at the comments underneath

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf4nlIEHfaU
    Couldabeen
    8th Jan 2019
    4:23pm
    There is very visible bias on this Forum of people seeing what they want to see. Before you vote for any Independent, consider their chances of actually getting into Parliament. Chances are, yours would be wasted vote unless there is a very strong support base for that candidate in your electorate.
    For those urging people to vote for the ALP, do you not remember the disaster that they were last time? And the time before that? For those living in Queensland we have reminders of how inept they are every day.
    The ALP have committed Australia to an idiotic path to renewable energy that will see electricity cost increases that would go to as much as 400% on what we are paying now. This subsidising of sources that only work 30% of the time has to stop until they can provide quality power 24/7. Apart from a reversion to include more coal, there is no alternative that is socially acceptable.
    There is no compulsory Retirement Age as such and this talk of 70 years is childish. You are talking about the access to the Age Pension. A person can retire at what ever age they wish that they can afford.
    All of the employment conditions that we thank the Unions for (working week, paid holidays, OH&S) were all locked into legally enforceable Awards before the end of the '70's. Since then the Unions have intervened whenever employers and employees have attempted to negotiate more specific and more suitable arrangements. Too many of the Unions are excessively militant and as major donors to the ALP they demand more than just their pound of flesh from a Labor Government.
    One thing that there appears to be agreement on here is that the Greens should be avoided at all costs as whilst superficially many of their policies appear attractive, the devil is in the detail and they would be toxic to an inclusive and affordable future for this country.
    Is the present Coalition Government really doing as bad a job as some of their supporters on here claim? Give us specific details as I see and hear no real pain.
    Misty
    8th Jan 2019
    6:00pm
    Obviously you are living well Couldabeen, many in our country town are doing it tough, we have had more shops closed since the Coalition came to office then in any of the 52 years that have lived here, wages have not kept up with the cost of living either which doesn't help.There are good and bad in all organisations, Unions are no exception, we all know that but without the unions workers would not be enjoying the conditions they have now even though they could still be better.
    Misty
    8th Jan 2019
    6:42pm
    I also heard on the news today that there are more people homeless now due to the cost of living, not a good look for the Coalition is it Couldabeen.
    Adrianus
    9th Jan 2019
    9:07am
    Good post Couldabeen. Many unions have been taken over by Marxists these days. They appear more determined than ever to disrupt and play political games. Unions are among the Greens biggest donors. The Royal Commission into union Corruption was very revealing. Bill Shorten became more established as the Union pin up boy because of his coolness under pressure during questioning, but he is only the lead singer in the band. The unions are widely regarded as being instrumental in workers having a 37.5 hour week. But now they are working hard to increase those hours back up over 40?
    Adrianus
    10th Jan 2019
    8:46am
    "No way will Labor ever let the Asylum Seeker trade start up again, it would be political suicide and they know it. " - Misty.

    Misty you're making a few assumptions with that statement.
    You assume that Labor care more about politics than they care about National Security.

    What was it Kevin Rudd told us?
    "cant stop the boats without starting a war with Indonesia."

    This is the same crew with Bill Shorten now not a faceless man.
    Misty
    10th Jan 2019
    9:54am
    Exactly Adrianus, Bill Shorten is not Kevin Rudd and unlike the Coalition have learned their lessons from past mistakes, unfortunately the Coalition have not and continue their infighting.
    Adrianus
    11th Jan 2019
    10:24am
    Misty, it will be the same old story. Labor bobbleheads will become less compliant and more demanding if they win the election. We've seen it all before.
    Misty
    11th Jan 2019
    11:03am
    Not true Adrianus, unlike the Coalition Labor has learned from past mistakes.
    Anonymous
    12th Jan 2019
    6:35am
    Labor hasn't learned that discriminatory overtaxing and punishing work and responsible choices doesn't fix an economy. Hasn't learned not to use outdated data. And hasn't learned to tell the truth. Still ranting with the same old lies and still bribing the gullible who can't see past the propaganda and stupid slogans.
    Adrianus
    12th Jan 2019
    11:40am
    The only thing they have learned Misty is how to be more politically savvy. You need to listen to what they say as well as what they don't say before you discover their true intentions.
    I see a showdown coming between the CFMEU and the Labor party if it doesn't happen there will be a showdown between the left and right within the party, or should I say the women vs the men.
    Misty
    12th Jan 2019
    3:19pm
    Time will tell Adrianus.
    Adrianus
    12th Jan 2019
    4:45pm
    I knew would agree with that. Labor members have already asked Bill Shorten to sack John Setka from the Labor Party. Who was the union boss offered $12m to retire but refused?
    Anonymous
    12th Jan 2019
    4:48pm
    Why would he retire on $12m when there’s 100x more to be made ripping off members funds and from secret deals