Treasurer refuses to disclose economic modelling on tax cuts

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Federal Treasurer Scott Morrison has refused to provide economic modelling on company tax cuts because, he says, it does not matter to people in the pub.

After negotiations with the Senate crossbench last week, the Federal Government secured tax cuts for businesses with a turnover of up to $50 million.

The Opposition and media have continued to push Mr Morrison for modelling on the tax cuts. Instead of providing those details, Mr Morrison told reporters to go to the pub.

“I tell you what, if you go down the pub and you talk to small business people, they’re not talking about econometric models. What they’re talking about is how they’re going to grow their businesses,” said Mr Morrison.

“The Turnbull Government knows how business works. We focus on the things we know make a difference because of our life experience and our background in business,” he said.

Meanwhile, Opposition Leader Bill Shorten would not confirm whether Labor would repeal the legislation if it wins office at the next election.

“I was in a pub in Proserpine yesterday. No-one came up to me in the pub and said ‘just vote for the $50 billion corporate tax giveaway,’ Said Mr Shorten.”

What do you think? Do the latest tax cuts pass the pub test? Should Mr Morrison provide the economic modelling to substantiate his claims that the corporate tax cuts will boost investment and jobs?

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91 Comments

Total Comments: 91
  1. 0
    0

    Scott Morrison is an arrogant, two faced pillock. His comments reflect exactly what he and his Right wing colleagues think of the general population of this country. He and his colleagues have driven up the debt of this country, despite their promise not to, and not having a Global Financial Crises to cope with. Further to their arrogance, in order to pay for their errors they want pensioners, Nurses, students, and all working people to bail them out, by taking pay cuts and losing penalty rates. I hope this country has learned it’s lesson and to not put these ‘robber barons’ in office again.

    • 0
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      Just stop whinging and do like he says. Go to the pub!

    • 0
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      I thoroughly support you “bartpcb”.

      But we surely couldn’t replace them with the economically useless and union led Labor party.

      The sad part is the LNP know this.

      They know the majority won’t vote for Labor. Past results speak for themselves. And that’s why the LNP continue to savage the average taxpayer and pensioner while voting themselves pay increases.

      Labor won’t knock back the pay rises. They welcome it. They just lay back and let the LNP take the blame.

      But Just imagine how much good publicity the ALP would get if they pretended to argue against a pay rise.

      I don’t really know where we go from here “bartpcb”. I thought One Nation might have been the answer but they seem to be imploding.

      Nick Xenophon has been siding with the LNP so he might just be a flash in the pan. And Jackie Lambie has also been riding on the LNPs coat tails lately.

      Love to see a change of government. They deserve to be kicked out.

      But …………..?

    • 0
      0

      And at the pub, I’m hearing a lot of decent working people complaining that it’s getting harder and harder to make ends meet and the future is grimmer than ever before, and retirees saying this government is constantly attacking them, and business owners saying ”Tax cuts are a nice bonus, but it won’t change anything except how much we have to spend – in the short term. In the long term, we’ll be worse off because people have less to spend so consumption, profit and employment will fall. Except in the huge monopoly corporations, where CEO’s and directors will vote themselves yet another huge pay increase and gloat about how well they are doing. Any business that subject to market forces has managers worrying over the impact of their customers’ reduced spending power – and certainly not planning to employ more people to service falling demand. If they do pass on any benefit, it will be through lower prices – and that means the deflation that spells economic devastation.

      That’s what’s being said at all the pubs I visit.

    • 0
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      Gee Rainey I went to a pub a couple of nights mid week last week in a backwater place in Queensland and it was standing room only in what I would call a decent sized pub. They were telling me that things could not be better. I stayed at the showground which had a thirty other RVs of various configurations. Some of those fifth wheelers, caravans and motorhomes were very well appointed indeed. So if what I saw and heard last week then things are booming.

      Yes I just made it back before all the rain and floods. If I hadn’t I’d be still there as the place is now flooded in.

    • 0
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      Bart you’re right mate. Ignore Old Geezer. He is a Lib squaddie. I am with you. Morrison is Just so out id touch that it is beyond a joke.

    • 0
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      OG doesn’t live in Australia. He lives in a fantasy land he’s invented and he rants with a lot of lies about conditions in this country because he’s an LNP stooge who profits from a stinking society that tramples on the working majority and the underprivileged to line the coffers of the filthy unconscionable rich (of which he is one).

    • 0
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      If I live in a fantasy land then if this is fantasy land then it is nothing like I always though fantasy land was. Not too sure I like having a moat around my house.

    • 0
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      Good comments, bartpcb, agree with you and Rainey.
      Besides being arrogant, this guy talks like a dictator who doesn’t want to justify anything, or the modelling doesn’t support his stupid plans.

      The big question continues to be – who is the alternative, as haven’t got a half-decent one? Definitely, throw out this mob at the next opportunity.

    • 0
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      @Rainey -“a stinking society that tramples on the working majority and the underprivileged to line the coffers of the filthy unconscionable rich” … really, why hold back Rainey, tell us what you really think of Australia. The rest of the world sees our quality of life as pretty desirable and certainly in the top few percent of all countries. No doubt there are many areas for improvement, which is what makes Australia so desirable, but it’s time to check the hyperbole and have a reality check to see how good your lot is compared to the rest of the world.

  2. 0
    0

    Morrison is correct, the only time voters talk about government policies or legislation is when it affects the hip pocket nerve. The brouhaha on this has only come about because the Opposition has made it an issue and, as usual, there is no confirmation from them as to their position.

    • 0
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      I agree the pub would not be interested at all.

    • 0
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      Wrong. Everyone I know is very interested – and very worried about the damage this government is doing. And all agree less spending power among the battlers means less consumption, less profit, less tax revenue, less employment, and less growth. And a few extra dollars in the pockets of some minority business owners who actually paid their dues won’t compensate for the reduced market demand resulting from screwing over those whose spending keeps business profitable.

    • 0
      0

      Gee Rainey, you’ve really opened up the topic. What I read was about economic modelling on company tax cuts and I have framed my response in this narrow field. I can’t argue with your comment because you haven’t really told us how many people that your straw poll canvassed. When you say “everyone I know”, that could be hundreds or, conversely, you could be Neville No Friends.

    • 0
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      Most people I talk to say that cutting the company tax is a good idea. The only ones that don’t are those who rely on dividends and don’t want their franking credits to fall as a result.

    • 0
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      Leading economists say it’s a bad idea. Official government figures refer to less than 1% growth resulting. It’s more social engineering by a government that wants a return to a feudal society. Morrison won’t release the figures because they prove the policy wrong. If he had an ounce of evidence to support his claims that the cuts were good for the country, he’d be shouting it everywhere – obviously! No politician ever stays silent when there’s evidence he got it right!

    • 0
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      It really surprises me Rainey that you know any leading economists. Don’t tell me you rely on that crap in the press they call news that’s main purpose is to sell? I certainly don’t.

      Who really cares what is in that modelling because we all know that if the company tax as halved a lot more than double the company tax today would be collected. One small step in the right direction.

    • 0
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      What we all know, OG, is that companies won’t pay their tax, and it doesn’t matter what the rate is, they will find every loophole available to escape their moral obligations and they will continue to demand legal changes to make it easier to escape. Only as moron believes cutting company tax will help the economy. It’s a step toward a feudal society in which the poor are totally screwed over.

    • 0
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      And I care very much about the modelling, because hiding it means it’s not in the national interest.

    • 0
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      Rainey but would you read it if I was to get you a copy?

  3. 0
    0

    I am using supposed figures which, I believe, will not be too far off the reality of the situation.
    About 87% of the readers of this article will have never attended any University or Institution of Higher Learning. Of those who have done so, only a very small number will have taken Economics as a Major subject.
    This means that very few will be qualified to give any well-informed or useful opinion on the complexities of the economic modelling of aspects of our National Budget.
    But, I suppose there will always be a lot of know-all, no-little, comments

    • 0
      0

      All the more reason why Morrison should be compelled to account for his policy properly – with researched and reliable numbers. Those who will suffer if he’s wrong should at least be entitled to explanations that give them some confidence that he’s not totally incompetent as well as being an arrogant pig.

    • 0
      0

      Well I am one of those who did spend time at uni doing economics etc and quite frankly I would only probably read the conclusion and not be too concerned about all the figures.

      How is anyone going to suffer with the economy booming as a result of these tax cuts?

    • 0
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      Major supposition OG that the economy will boom because of these tax cuts. What about you back up your statement by offering to donate some of your millions to a worthwhile cause if that boom does not occur.

    • 0
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      If the boom does not occur maybe I wont have those millions as they will have already been donated to Mr Market.

    • 0
      0

      Well what a stuck up piece if crap that is micky d.

      You think everybody’s a dumb moron because they didn’t go to University?

      Well most of the politicians did. And look at the pile of dung we have ended up with!

    • 0
      0

      You crack me up mickey d. Economists have stuffed up the planet with their ideologies for decades and most have the common sense of a Newt. This is the same bunch who told AUstralians to sell their homes and invest in shares some 20 years ago exclaiming that houses were a dead investment.
      I have a degree and imagine others on this website also do. Our combined ‘wisdom’ would likely put genY ‘economists’ to shame. After the current world debt bubble deflates you’ll see why……..and the highly paid economists who have advocated money printing will be nowhere to be seen of heard. I’ll bet my house on that. Want to play mickey?

    • 0
      0

      Gee Whiz ! Gee Whiz.
      I re-read what I wrote and, gee whiz ! guess what! I couldn’t find where I supposedly suggested that anyone who hadn’t been to a University was a dumb moron.
      For the record, you’re quite wrong.
      What I referred to were the complexities of economic modelling of aspects of our National Budget.
      Care to enlighten us with your wisdom?

  4. 0
    0

    It is one of the standard excuses trotted out when reducing tax on businesses that it will increase employment. It is a variation on the “trickle down effect” which can best be described as the rich p***ing on the poor.
    Business only ever employ the minimum number of people they need, actually more less than they really need and just provide poor service. The only way to get business to employ more people is the spark up spending and that won’t happen unless ordinary people have enough disposable income.
    Individuals like Morrison are remote from the realities of life and he is now in a secure position so that even if he loses his seat at the next election he will ride off into the sunset with a ridiculously large pension for the rest of his life. He will never have to worry where his next dollar is coming from.

    • 0
      0

      I agree entirely Tom Tank and bartpcb – I call it the “trickle up effect”.

      Consumer demand drives investment, not the other way around. Even Year 12 Economics taught me that.

      As I’ve stated in earlier posts: if you put money in the hands of the poor they’ll spend the lot LOCALLY. But if you put money in the hands of the rich they’ll spend it overseas, or invest in shares and multinationals, who don’t pay their share of tax, or invest in property and negatively gear it and receive capital gains tax reductions. The rich will SQUANDER any benefits to the Australian economy or the average Australian.

      The increased numbers of working poor people in this country is the result of the rich leaning on them, with stagnant wage growth, the casualisation of the workforce and reduced penalty rates. At the same time the people are having to absorb the excesses of the rich by paying higher rents and being further locked out of the housing market.

      “trickle down”? PURE BULLSHIT!
      Why won’t Morrison explain business modelling for company tax cuts? Because he can’t!

  5. 0
    0

    Arrogant SOB he has forgotten that his is a servant of the public like most of our pollies

  6. 0
    0

    Jeez OG ,outback Qld pub? No doubt in the federal National party stronghold, what else would you expect in the state of two legged sheep

    • 0
      0

      It was actually in a seat held by the Labor Party not the Nationals.

    • 0
      0

      If things are so bad how can one afford to go to the pub. They seem to charge even for water these days.
      Doesn’t matter what political party holds the seat if things are so bad save a bit by brewing your own.

    • 0
      0

      Point 1: The only folk who can afford to go to an outback pub (especially given the drink-driving laws that keep most workers away0 are the well off – like OG

      Point 2: No self-respecting battler or anyone adversely affected by this LNP’s cruel and disgusting policies would think of entering into conversation with someone as bigoted, nasty, and lacking in empathy for battlers as OG – on ANY subject, and certainly not about politics or economics. If OG heard it, he heard it from a rich LNP stooge like himself.

    • 0
      0

      Interesting Rainey as the pub off the beaten track I visited twice last week on a Tuesday and a Wednesday was crowded with an hour wait for a meal. It was booming and that was mid week. Some very interesting people in that pub. In fact it was a very interesting town that was locked in yesteryear. Off again next week to another one of these places armed only with plastic.

  7. 0
    0

    Economic modelling can give you the answer you want, like any business case. It is only when the modelling is exposed to public scrutiny can we be assured it uses reasonable assumptions, and gives a reasonable prediction of an outcome. I can give you an example.
    A few years ago I was involved in a campaign to change the indexation of DFRDB (ie military) pensions from CPI to PBLCI (same as OAP). It got through the House of Reps and when it was presented to the Senate some ‘economic modelling’ was produced that showed it would cost $40billion for the forward estimates to implement. This shocked some cross-bench senators and they voted with the government to defeat to proposal. When the ‘economic modelling’ was analysed some of the assumptions were outrageously wrong, but it was too late. The economic modelling used 40 years as the “forward estimates”, not the usual 5 years. Further, another assumption was that no DFRDB recipient, or potential recipient, would die in that 40 year period.
    Therefore I can conclude that if Mr Morrison will not release his economic modelling it is because it will not stand up to public scrutiny.

    • 0
      0

      By the way we eventually got our PBLCI indexation. in 2014 Mr Abbot made an election promise that he would bring it in for DFRDB recipients. It was one of the election promises he kept.

    • 0
      0

      Another thing, what is this ‘pub test’. I for one do not frequent pubs (except occasionally to dine in a Bistro but I prefer my RSL club). Also what validity would the opinions of partly intoxicated pub patrons, whose main economic credentials is gambling on pokies or TAB, have. Not much in my book. The pub test is no test at all.

    • 0
      0

      Agree Eddy people in pubs have no interest in such things. More interested in footy or the GGs.

    • 0
      0

      In general terms, a “pub test” (not to be confused with a “pub quiz”) is a usually metaphorical test that seeks to evaluate the thoughts and opinions of ordinary Australians and apply them in judging potentially dubious activities by public figures, especially politicians.
      ie ScMo’s economic modelling does not pass the pub test.
      Nor do the changes in the Pensioner Assets Test.

    • 0
      0

      Let’s get real. Nothing except government handouts pass the pub test.

    • 0
      0

      The OAP is not a handout it’s an ENTITLEMENT after paying taxes during ones working life, not a redistribution of pensioners saving to fund business tax cuts.

    • 0
      0

      My goodness, the arrogance here. So you think people who have a drink in a pub are socially and intellectually below you. Get off your high horses before you get pushed off.

    • 0
      0

      That just shows how silly this pub test idea really is.

  8. 0
    0

    What an arrogant, condescending, privileged, out of touch [email protected]#*k. He won’t provide details because he can’t. A 2015 report by the International Monetary Fund says that ‘trickle down’ policies just make the rich richer. And it’s not the guys down at the pub that are able to analyse and comment on the economic modelling. There are well educated organisations that will do that. The LNP just know what the results of that would be already.

  9. 0
    0

    The Treasurer should release the economic modelling. Whether people at the pub want it or not is totally irrelevant. It is an arrogant and ignorant assumption to make and at the very least we should call him out on that. There are many Australians who want to know and want to understand why certain decisions are made by governments. They may not all be in the pub, but I am certainly sure some are. I agree with some of the people on here that if he will not release the figures and modelling, it is because they are not correct or at the very least overstated. As others have said, cutting company tax will NOT increase jobs. that has been proved before. The same as cutting penalty rates and wage increases for Australia’s lowest paid workers will not either. What it will do is increase the bonuses of CEOs and CFOs and perhaps for a short while dividends for shareholders, but overall and over the long term, it will do nothing for most Australians.
    By the way, I am sure there are very many more than 13% of readers on here with university degrees… and an assumption that unless you have majored in economics at university you cannot understand the modelling that is pertinent to this decision is absolute and utter rubbish!

  10. 0
    0

    Thank god there are no pollies at our pub as I hate the site of blood.Good comment Rainey.

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