MYEFO – what cuts are we facing?

As expected, there was no good news when Scott Morrison delivered the MYEFO.

MYEFO – what cuts are we facing?

As expected, there was no good news when Treasurer Scott Morrison delivered his first Mid Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook (MYEFO), but just how bad are things?

$5 billion of cuts to be announced

Tax revenue shortfall and new spending measures bear the brunt of the blame for the budget deficit ballooning to $37.4 billion for this financial year. The estimate for the 2016–17 deficit has also jumped from $25.8 billion forecast in May to $33.7 billion.

The tax revenue has been revised down due to a cut in growth forecasts and falling iron ore, coal and gas prices, while spending on initiatives such as new medicines on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, managing asylum seeker boat arrivals and $1.1 billion pledged to new roads has increased the budget expenditure considerably.

The long-term forecast doesn’t look particularly good either, with the budget deficit projected to increase by $26.4 billion over the next four years and the total deficit to reach $647 billion by 2025–26.

The GDP annual growth forecast will fall from the 2.75 per cent cited in the May Budget to 2.5 per cent in 2015–16 and to 2.75 per cent in 2016–17, down 0.5 per cent from the forecasted 3.25 per cent.

The unemployment rate is tipped to improve from 6.5 per cent to 6 per cent and Mr Morrison was upbeat on this forecast, saying it may be “too conservative” given the recent fall in the jobless rate.

Several of the saving measures Mr Morrison noted yesterday have already been announced since the May Budget. The cuts which are aimed at getting the Budget back on track include:

  • Crackdown on welfare compliance and fraud – $2 billion over four years
  • Removing bulk billing incentive for pathology and MRI services -– $650 million over four years
  • Cuts to health workforce programs – $595 million over four years
  • Cuts to aged care funding – $472 million over three years
  • Means testing of child care subsidy – $441 million over four years.

The arts have also suffered with $52.5 million cut from the Communications and Arts Portfolio. And former prime minister Tony Abbott’s Green Army program has also received a funding cut, with programs capped at 500 per year.

And while it's not a large expenditure, opportunities for older workers took another bashing, with the abolishing of the mature aged employment program, saving $11m

Treasurer Scott Morrison said that in addressing the economic challenges of a growing budget deficit, it was important to take a “safe and careful route” that “does not put at risk our jobs and growth”.

Speaking from Perth, he said, “We have adopted a measured approach that avoids extreme responses that would place a handbrake on household consumption and business investment growth and unnecessarily threaten the fresh new momentum emerging in our transitioning economy”.

Greens treasury spokesman Adam Bandt’s response was to say that the report reinforced that unfair tax breaks for the rich should end, while ACTU president Ged Kearney accused the Government of cutting welfare rather than raising taxes on the wealthy, “overlooking the fiscal white elephant in the room”.

Read more at ABC.net.au 
Read the full paper at Budget.gov.au 

Opinion: Push for self-funded health care

We knew the cuts were coming, we have been told often enough that funding of health, aged care and welfare can’t continue ‘to be a burden’ on the economy forever. But the one thing that is now crystal clear is that the responsibility of paying for health care is being well and truly shifted to the patient.

In the delivery of the Mid Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook (MYEFO), the Government has faced the stark reality that good economic policy and playing politics don’t mix. It’s all well and good to spout innovation programs, new roads and new PBS medicines as a gift to the people of Australia, but when the people of Australia ultimately end up footing the bill, where is the ‘gift’ in that?

For the last two years the Government has tried and failed to push the responsibility of health care onto the patient. GP co-payments and a reduction in the Medicare Benefits Schedule are just two of the unpopular and ultimately un-adopted measures the Government has tried.

So, in its latest move, it has instead of targeting the patient outright, gone for the providers of diagnostic services. The reduction of bulking billing incentives to pathology and diagnostic imaging service suppliers will ultimately lead to patients paying for such services, or simply going without what could be life saving tests.

Until now, patients have largely not had any out-of-pocket costs when referred by their GP for pathology, x-ray or MRI testing, but with the Medicare benefit payment to providers being cut, it’s the GP or the patient that will have to cover such costs. And I can’t see it being the GP.

"The axing of the bulk billing incentives for pathology and diagnostic imaging services will increase the health cost burden for Australian families, with the poorest and the sickest being hit the hardest," said Australian Medical Association (AMA) President Professor Brian Owler.

"These measures are simply resurrecting a part of the Government's original ill-fated co-payment proposal from the 2014 budget.”

Cuts to health, workforce and aged care funding will also see a reduction in care, with many services already stretched to breaking point.

Do you think the cuts announced in the MYEFO are necessary to stop the Budget deficit from increasing further? Or do you think other areas should have been targeted? Should governments be forced to reveal how new spending measures will be funded before making such promises?





    COMMENTS

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    tisme
    16th Dec 2015
    10:20am
    yet they never mention cutting their own spending thats where the real savings would be. how come they spend us into debt yet they are the only ones who dont have to pay for it.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    11:46am
    Agree.
    This is a government intent on hitting average and poor citizens. Whilst the reliance on mineral sales is understood whose fault is it that Australia has closed its manufacturing base, sold off its prized assets to foreigners and wasted every dollar? Governments. On both sides.
    So now the current deadbeat big business owned government wants average people to bear the pain whilst talking about "tax reform". That means tax cuts for the rich and the whole idea of any tax cuts at this time defies the logic of where the nation is at.
    I continue to state: COLLECT THE RIGHT TAX FROM MULTINATIONALS AND CLOSE THE SUPERANNUATION TAX SHELTERS FOR THE RICH as well as the other tax shelters and tax avoidance mechanisms used by our wealthy to avoid paying their share. If we did that then there would be so much free money that this government could have 20 Royal Commission smear campaigns a year. But you won't see this government tax the wealthy.
    It is a national disgrace that this government also looks like trying to copy the US model in health. But then that is what is playing out with wealth distribution so should not come as a surprise. We will end up with 15 owning 90% of everything like in the US unless voters send this lot on their way.
    Scrivener
    16th Dec 2015
    2:34pm
    Just google 'IPA agenda to re-shape Australia, March 2, 2013, by Barry Tucker'. This approach was predicted nearly three years ago and nobody listened. It's a bit like Climate Control - for the moron Abbott and his straw chewing idiot inbreds in the NLP, it does not exist - but when his house gets blown down in a hurricane, he'll get it. This is where the idiots get their second hand fascist economic ideas from.
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    3:35pm
    We all need to do our bit. If you think you are in a group which doesn't need to share some of the responsibility for the mess we are in, then please explain why?
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    8:18pm
    Why should I share responsibility for a mess created by politicians and bureaucrats to benefit the privileged, when I've suffered massive under-privilege all my life? Why should people who were so seriously wronged by the government as children that in a just and fair world they would get at least a million in compensation, but they got nothing because corrupt governments hid their records until the time to take action expired, and in any case they had no money to pay lawyers but the government threatened them with cost orders to pay their multi-million-dollar legal teams?

    Frank, all this talk about ''responsibility'', but the ONLY people not taking any are the privileged mongrels who caused the problem. Those who broke their backs for decades for pathetic wages, and paid far too much tax, and got virtually nothing from the State are the people paying now for the blunders. Always the same. Always the under-privileged and the battlers, the people who suffer the most injustice, the people who get the least benefit from tax dollars - they are always the ones who are expected to pay when things go wrong.

    Yes, there are MANY groups who don't share responsibility and SHOULDN''T have to bear the burden - especially when those who are responsible aren't contributing anything to the solution.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    9:09pm
    Hot off the Press:

    "The Turnbull government has hidden a huge tax loophole for big business in the fine print of its Innovation Statement.

    The prime minister talks a lot about supporting Australian startups and new businesses, but this decision could instead end up funnelling millions in tax breaks to some of the world’s biggest firms.

    The government has proposed changing the way that tax deductions apply to intangible assets (such as patents and intellectual property) which could be a huge windfall for big businesses."

    Here we have corruption at work AGAIN from the government. It is unlikely that this is a mistake and more likely that the same government which is refusing to collect the correct amount of tax from multinationals is also also setting up the next loophole for them.

    THIS GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO RESIGN IMMEDIATELY.
    Linda
    16th Dec 2015
    10:24pm
    Frank, firstly, we see here and there that the spin is often based on a slant one wants to take on things to persuade or convince people that something is true when in fact it is one interpretation. The current government has chosen to spend in a manner that seems irresponsible to me. They made a lot of rash spending decisions very quickly. They should have been spending a lot more of their energy on actually raising some revenue. They appear bereft of ideas to energise the economy, and are sill looking like folks who are giving handouts from the budget, to their mates, to get money from their mates for themselves or their campaigns.

    To suggest That folks have to pay their fair share, especially retired people who have worked all their lives and have paid taxes all that time, including taxes that were promised to help them in retirement, (and subsequent government then changed that agreement with the people), is an ugly look.

    Perhaps some changes are needed, adjustments, re thinking and so on, and for the whole time the current government has been in power it has done nothing but threaten various proposals that will impact on the current and future incomes of retired people. The government gave a few years back, both LNP and Labor, and now they want it back. This, by itself seems a very poor showing. They are behaving irresponsibly.

    No wonder unemployment is high, as folks are scared to do anything since we have no idea if we can pay our bills on the fixed income we have. The retired people were hurt and remain spooked about investing in shares, the interest rates are low, young people can't find a place they can afford to live in much less by a home, and salaries for the politicians just goes up.

    Nothing is looking fair about the current governments proposals.
    That is the main problem. We see the spin, and there has been too much lying, too many promises broken, too many dumb expenditures.

    I have never in my life worked for an election outcome but this time, I plan to give it all I can to ensure this lot of losers and and cheats are removed from office.

    To have taken a perfectly reasonable price on carbon, and the huge positive program for renewable energy, which held the promise of a great future for Australia and toss that out, to give us 15% GST, changes to retirement income arrangements, increased medical expenses, higher electricity prices, a huge deficit blow out, approving lost cause coal mines, a big kick in the teeth to our precious ABC, letting Murdoch own and control the media, cutting the guts out of science, and on and on, just does not look like good leadership.

    And as for the mess Labor made, that is a load of rubbish, we sailed right through the GST, employment wise, bank wise, etc. and yes maybe Labor could have done a better job, but this current lot just look like a batch of dumb clowns in comparison.



    To have these people take away the best future for Australia, and give us massive debt, take the lurks and perks of office and huge salaries, then many, like myself think that either the government is not really about Australia it is about how much money can they milk from revenues and pay offs from their rich and in some cases corrupt friends.

    When the government decides it can't afford the pay scales of the elected members, when there is a view to a plausible future, when across the board there is an ask to help out, that is when folks might decide it is actual leadership.
    wally
    16th Dec 2015
    11:23pm
    I agree with mick. Let's vote Turnbull's LNP govt out and return the Labor Green Alliance to govt with Wayne Swan as Prime Minister. Seeing as how he did such a superb job of predicting that he was going to give Australia a budget surplus every year he was Treasurer, (remember how that turned out?) it is only just and appropriate that we Australians reward him with the top Job in recognition of his sterling service in govt.
    Anonymous
    17th Dec 2015
    8:17am
    What we need to do is get rid of the two party system, Wally, because I think BOTH parties secretly work together with the same long term goals. I suspect Labor didn't want to win the last election. Not really. And I suspect they are quite happy for the LNP to make these changes. They protest because it's expected. But will they reverse them if elected? That's the question.

    We don't have democracy in Australia. We need to abolish this nonsense idea that politicians must vote according to the party dictate. We need politicians with the courage of their own convictions , willing to properly represent the people of their electorate and to vote in accordance with the will of the people, not the will of the party. What part of ''elected representative'' do they not understand? Their JOB is to represent US. And currently, not one of them qualifies. Therefore, they should all be fired.
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    9:03am
    wally: seriously, I thought you were better than this sort of comment. That's what I might expect from a right wing stooge.
    Looking at this logically if you don't want to vote Labor directly then VOTE INDEPENDENT. Of course either way one needs to preference Labor otherwise your vote will go to this bad government if the Independent does not get up.
    In the end YOU have to ask yourself if you want a government which is a rich man's government, which intends to tax you and give your money to those who have no need of it, which spends money with nothing to show for it. By all means continue to dislike Labor but show intelligence and understand that we got something for our money under Labor (not Royal Commissions which did nothing!) and that Australians were not thrown out of work when the rest of the world was. Sadly if you cannot understand the difference at this time then you have issues mate. And yes Shorten is a dead loss..........but the Liberal Party is far worse.
    Adrianus
    17th Dec 2015
    11:41am
    mick, do you need a new set top box?
    Jen
    17th Dec 2015
    2:34pm
    Well said, Linda! Totally agree. And like you, I'm going to do my damndest to get rid of this bunch of traitors. Not only that, but I will be working towards gradually doing away with a two party system. We've lost democracy and Australia has become a victim of two bunches of greedy, self-serving, anti-Australian criminals, most especially, the LNP. People need to be aware that we don't have to be stuck with this, that changes can be made, and for the sake of Australia, changes HAVE to be made. This requires people to stop doing the same thing, election after election, and start THINKING about their vote and their country.
    wally
    17th Dec 2015
    4:28pm
    Mick, it saddens me to learn that you do not want Wayne Schwantz as Prime Minister of our fair country. Voting for independents may be a way for disgruntled voters to let off steam, but we still get saddled with turkeys for the 3 or 6 year terms they hold their seats, whether they are independents or party endorsed candidates.

    I also agree with Rainey about democracy in Australia. The only time Australians get a taste of democracy is on election day. Then until the next election, we are subjected to the whims of the party that wins government. It can be something of a Lucky Dip (or Unlucky Dip) depending on who wins the most votes. The recent propensity of both political parties to put their leaders to the sword to pursue poll popularity over policy adds even more uncertainty in how Australia will be governed.

    So the next Federal election is going to be interesting, to say the least, as it has so much riding on it.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2015
    7:46am
    We may have democracy in name wally but in practice this is a sham because we have groups of people paid to groom the public. Some of the posts below would make that obvious. They are not Australians posting what they believe in. Just trolls. Cash for comment.
    Whilst you have no love of Labor I fail to understand how, if you are a fair dinkum Australian, you can print some of the stuff you do. Are you so blind that you are unable to see that the current government is into class warfare in a big way? The shifting of money from poor to rich? Pretty obvious. And in all of this you keep posting crap about "Wayne Schantz".....???? In case you are simple and cannot see the obvious both sides are bad. And let's not get back onto pink batts and school halls when you ignore Carbon Tax repeal ($8 billion annual cost to taxpayers), Mining Tax repeal and TURC (no scalps of value and certainly not the smear target - $80 million). And you wonder why I advocate that voters fix the system up by voting Independent until both sides gett he message.
    Kaz
    18th Dec 2015
    10:11am
    Well written Linda
    There are many egos starting to emerge from this government and they are obviously avoiding talking about the easy tax fixes (that would affect their financiers) and trying to focus everyone's attention on welfare. In the scheme of things, this is not helpful and the rise in the GST is a laugh, except for those hit hardest by it - those who pay their weekly wage tax
    Peterrj
    18th Dec 2015
    9:52pm
    mick, 'Let's vote this Govt out' .... NOT knowing what the opposition will do or even promise to do!

    Yeah right,that makes a whole lot of of sense doesn't it!!!!!
    wally
    19th Dec 2015
    2:04pm
    mick, as I see it, the difficulty with voting independent is that if you get enough of them elected, the right wingers and the left wingers amongst them will, through their voting patterns, cancel each other's votes out. If that happens, the same old circus rolls on in parliament.

    Unless we wind up like Italy, where elections almost become an annual event. But then, Italy has remained a democracy for 70 years so annual elections might not be such a bad thing. that is, of course, if long term policies in infrastructure are allowed to go ahead and the politicians refrain from trying to play a tit for tat game of repealing the other side's legislation when in office and watching their opponents reinstate the legislation the next time they regained office.
    particolor
    19th Dec 2015
    9:01pm
    Nothing could be worse than the RELAY TEAMS You have in there now !! :-(
    The whole Bunch of them are Salesman, Liars and Tourists !! :-( :-(
    Johno
    16th Dec 2015
    10:20am
    They won't touch the wealthy will they. Again, those least able to bear the burden have been targeted. I'm disgusted! Revolution is in the air. Bring back the guillotine!
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    11:46am
    Give me a flag. I'm in!
    Sen.Cit.90
    16th Dec 2015
    11:52am
    Revolution! Yes, Johno;
    Vote the two major parties out of power Try something new e.g. www.restoreaustralia.org.au.
    I've read their publication;
    'Draft Constitution for the Sovereign State of Australia'. Very similar Switzerland's that I looked up on Google.
    The power to sack lazy representatives by their constituents (without payouts) has to be a good thing
    Renny
    16th Dec 2015
    12:16pm
    Well we can start by not voting this lot in again. The increase in their rorting shows that they don't expect to be elected again. Labir was better, not perfect but better. And better economic managers. This lot are fools.
    Perthite
    16th Dec 2015
    12:32pm
    The sooner this government is out the better. We weathered the global financial crisis under Labor and were the envy of the world. Now everyone else is recovering and we are in a terrible state. WA had a huge boom but the state government spent every last penny and put us in debt, losing our Triple A credit rating. The Liberals cannot manage money has been proved and cannot cut their cloth. They are hitting the sick and elderly and yet they spend a fortune on people in detention, refugees, foreign aid, wars, etc. etc. and then they think they deserve a pay rise! They are hitting the people who paid their taxes which is hardly fair but they are like the aristocracy in olden days and think that everyone else can live on fresh air and 'don't feel the cold and hunger like we do' which is what the aristocracy used to say although they would give handouts to the poor.
    Patriot
    16th Dec 2015
    3:23pm
    Johno
    Count me in also!
    ABOUT BL**DY TIME!
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    3:29pm
    There has been a call for the return of the death penalty from the Islamic community.
    Patriot
    16th Dec 2015
    4:28pm
    Frank
    No Issue with than one either as long as it includes Politicians who are "Selling out OUR Country" and/or are not acting in the "Best interest of Australia" and/or not following the "Wishes if the Australian Electorate".

    For Politicians (only), Execution should be via DRONE controlled by the Australian Public.
    No Courts or anything as THEY (the Pollies) have the Court System "Stacked against US".
    LiveItUp
    16th Dec 2015
    8:49pm
    The wealthy have their own medical system in Australia. Yes there are 3 tiers of health in Australia. Public, private and very private.

    It is surprising what is available if you have the money.
    niemakawa
    16th Dec 2015
    8:49pm
    Get off that bandwagon. I blame those that are abusing welfare, probably 80% of those on the dole and DSP. Target these bludgers first.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    9:09pm
    Hot off the Press:

    "The Turnbull government has hidden a huge tax loophole for big business in the fine print of its Innovation Statement.

    The prime minister talks a lot about supporting Australian startups and new businesses, but this decision could instead end up funnelling millions in tax breaks to some of the world’s biggest firms.

    The government has proposed changing the way that tax deductions apply to intangible assets (such as patents and intellectual property) which could be a huge windfall for big businesses."

    Here we have corruption at work AGAIN from the government. It is unlikely that this is a mistake and more likely that the same government which is refusing to collect the correct amount of tax from multinationals is also also setting up the next loophole for them.

    THIS GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO RESIGN IMMEDIATELY.
    Rae
    17th Dec 2015
    8:48am
    Yes Bonny you are correct with this observation. We recently used the very private,secret health system and although it was expensive it was surprising how quickly everything happened, how much time was afforded us and the availability of the contact at any time day or night. Unbelievable.
    jjjadams
    16th Dec 2015
    10:25am
    Didn't think they'd have the intestinal fortitude to make the obvious cuts. Seen the budget savings to be made if they had ? Like Tones: "Gotta look after yer mates".
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    11:47am
    Gotta look after whose money put you in. Pretty easy to work out.
    particolor
    17th Dec 2015
    3:18pm
    Your now being RULED by the UN and BIG BIZ !! :-) :-)
    maelcolium
    16th Dec 2015
    10:29am
    The LNP replaced a bumbling buffon with a slick talking salesman, but the message is still the same. Turnbull will join with Abbott at the next election as a one hit wonder. The best thing to come out of dumping this pack of criminals will be losing Morrison who is yet to answer for his crimes against humanity with his border farce nazis.
    Confidence will crumble along with consumption and business investment over the next year while the coming recession pulls apart our hollowed out economy. Merry Christmas.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    11:48am
    Good post. Honest!
    Renny
    16th Dec 2015
    12:05pm
    Totally agree
    Jen
    16th Dec 2015
    2:31pm
    Well said, maelcolium.

    I don't know about anybody else but I've had a gutful of being told what's bad for me is good for me, having slogans about innovations, agility, jobs and investment spouted at me. Words without substance are making me gag, while we drift ever closer towards peasanthood, slaving for our masters, captured victims of corporations.
    johnp
    16th Dec 2015
    10:32am
    It seems to me that the sick and the elderly are becoming second-rate citizens in Australia today. We are constantly being reminded that we have become a 'burden'. If governments, both Federal and State, were to concentrate on areas of wastage - as private businesses have to in order to be successful - then there would be a lot more money to go around. And cut out some of the ridiculously over-generous benefits and grants that end up in the pockets of so many undeserving recipients. I don't like being made to feel that I'm a burden on the country after I have given a lifetime of service and paid my dues. It's not my fault that I haven't ended up with a Government superannuation.
    Renny
    16th Dec 2015
    12:12pm
    Not all people on government super are well off.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    12:29pm
    We're 'welfare' cases and thus can have out funding cut at a hand signal from the Overseer... that is precisely why I perpetually argue the very real differences between paid for social security and welfare.....

    We are NOT America and never should be.

    $2bn on welfare compliance and fraud...

    http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/421-440/tandi421.html

    "Table 1 reports on the outcomes of reviews for the three year period 2006–07 to 2008–09. Of note is the fact that typically, only 15.7 percent of reviews led to cancellations or reductions in payments. Of these, as few as 0.8 percent were referred to the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions (CDPP); with 0.5 percent being prosecuted."
    Perthite
    16th Dec 2015
    12:37pm
    You are right, Johnp. Ordinary government workers were not allowed to have superannuation as they were not 'white collar'. Women had to leave their government jobs when they got married - not even when they had a child. Pensions are not welfare as we paid for them and it is a breakdown in society when we don't help the weak and sick. Yes, some may be bludgers but bring them to task not everyone who has always done the right thing.
    Perthite
    16th Dec 2015
    12:37pm
    You are right, Johnp. Ordinary government workers were not allowed to have superannuation as they were not 'white collar'. Women had to leave their government jobs when they got married - not even when they had a child. Pensions are not welfare as we paid for them and it is a breakdown in society when we don't help the weak and sick. Yes, some may be bludgers but bring them to task not everyone who has always done the right thing.
    greatgolly
    16th Dec 2015
    3:26pm
    There is so much truth in what everyone says, but how well do we know our so-called representatives in federal or state parliaments?

    I sent an email to all the main politicians in regards to them sticking their snouts in the taxpayers trough deeper and deeper; though to some this may sound harsh to send such an email to all the poverty stricken pollies, but the replies were very interesting, especially one pollie who asked me how soon can I die and save them money! I kid you not! I decided I will make that email public closer to the elections, but it does show what they really think about us pensioners and the drain we are on the public purse!

    By the way, this pollie thinks they are not paid enough, how about that?
    Jen
    16th Dec 2015
    5:29pm
    When you do make that email public, be sure to post it here too, greatgolly!
    Linda
    16th Dec 2015
    10:39pm
    It will be interesting to see their plan for re election. I can imagine the efforts going into the numbers, to see who they might bribe with goodies to get elected. What kind of things will they do. Would they go so far as to tamper with ballots?

    I can just bet the ABC will be muzzled and changed, especially the news and special reports areas.

    Murdoch will be in best form, to, if not direct their spin, to ensure what ever the headlines say is LNP praise.

    What ever they say, promise or suggest, can't be trusted. They are DONE if I get my wish. There has been a measure of success pitting various groups against the other.

    Personally I am for a strong country, with the safeguards in place that make this a great place to live. The worst thing that happened was the loss of the renewable energy plans, as they really would have boosted this country in wonderful and terrific ways. Instead we have coal mines, fracking and all that nasty stuff that fossil fuels mean to human life and the planet. We must get together, pay attention, participate, watch alternative media that has good rep. and make sure Australia as we know it has a future.
    buby
    17th Dec 2015
    11:08am
    yes in deed linda , i agree with you. the Fracking needs to be stopped, and we should be going the solar avenue, using renewable, and living cleaner, we can do it.
    INstead they are allowing the fracking, raping our poor country for all its worth.
    Bloody disgraceful
    Murdoch, needs to be dumped, and the Pollies be renewed.
    They are a disgrace to the australian race.
    dstark
    16th Dec 2015
    10:33am
    Prof Borrie warned us in 1973 that the baby boomers would cause increasing demands on the younger workers to pay for them, and that was before life expectancy extended significantly with more ways to keep us alive. We are all guilty of spending the windfalls from the mining boom. Instead of hoarding for the rainy day, we blew it, and now have to face the consequences - or do we expect our kids and grand-kids to pay for us?
    margie
    16th Dec 2015
    10:46am
    I think everyone has forgotten that the Government at the time promised the baby boomer generation that their taxes would be used for the elderly of the day and would support the boomers in their retirement, goal posts have been moved once again. Bottom line is we have paid taxes after working all our lives, not taking handouts, going without to scrimp and save for a home, having children without all the bonuses and if some haven't been able (because of the above) to retire with millions, well the government can give some back, it is our money earned honestly. As for expecting our kids and grandkids to pay, that's a laugh, half the young of today are on welfare themselves.
    mangomick
    16th Dec 2015
    11:05am
    dstark..Someone posted on here once that their Chinese Natural Medicine teacher once told them that in some Chinese Cultures the grandchildren would smell and taste the Grand-parents Feces to monitor their health.
    Reckon if our kids and grand kids only have to pay extra taxes to keep some of us in our later years, they are getting out of it lightly.....
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    11:51am
    Whilst you have a point dstark I also agree with margie. We were PROMISED a good retirement if we took out superannuation. We did. And now we are being demonised for having a family home and a lousy super which most cannot live off let alone have some fun. So who is to blame?
    Funny mango!
    Renny
    16th Dec 2015
    12:14pm
    Funny. We pad for our parents and grandparents. And for the current generation. Why are they so damned precious that they have no responsibility? No wonder they're so spoiled with that kind of attitude.
    Wstaton
    16th Dec 2015
    12:21pm
    Yes margie is right and also dstark is right baby boomers did spend up and were encouraged to do so by successive governments. Why? because by spending up more taxes when into government coffers which in turn were vastly returned to the rich as a multitude of concessions which continue to this day.

    Why would mining be given concessions at the time of enormous profits they were making at the time. Why would people already rich be made richer by giving them super concessions which only serve to make them richer still. Not to help those who can only put nominal sums into super.

    One of the worst rorts is where only 15% tax is taken from super earning. This mean that someone earning $100k from super when they retire can pay less tax than those working hard to earn this. Super was intended to "maintain" your lifestyle not enhance it. Especially when usually outgoing expenditure is reduce when one retires.

    I find it amazing that those with a modest pension this is reversed by them having to submit to a taper rate if they happen to earn a bit extra while those who are rich get more concessions if they earn more and put it into super.

    So who do we blame for the frivolous throw away spending during the time of wealth. Our successive governments of course. All these giveaways so that they can stay in or gain power.

    Now we have ended up with the ones who can least afford it being bludgeoned instead of just taking away from those who do not need it the rich who are only in the business of getting richer.

    Now Mr Turnbull wouldn't it have been better to take away these disgusting super confessions and use this to promote job development and innovation rather than skim off your billion dollars from the lower end.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    12:32pm
    Did Borrie mention the ongoing demand for more payment for those younger generations imposed on the 'baby boomers' - the fools who worked hard to actually build this country and who provided all the massive social upheavals that lead to so many more 'freedoms' etc?

    I'll bet not.

    All this 'baby boomers costing' is nothing but a cover-up for the incompetence of governments that have created massive endemic un- and under-employment - with full employment this 'argument' would never even surface.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    1:46pm
    Renny: Simple. Gave them everything they ever wanted, and more. Told them that the sun shined from their little behinds. Never taught them to save. And now they want mum and dad to give them more. This is the chickens coming home to roost....and boomers do not like it.
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    2:06pm
    Renny, as a nation we have matured and with that maturity comes responsibility. We are more touchy feely then previous generations. We are more politically correct. And there is a competition with the prize going to the most humane country on the planet. So far, according to our Human Rights commissioner we have fallen slightly behind Saudi Arabia. But we can make up for it by forking out a few bucks to the needy.
    Rae
    16th Dec 2015
    2:50pm
    dstark we actually paid a lot of taxes and built income producing assets and government facilities such as buildings, hospitals,schools and TAFE, teleco and water and sewerage and electrical utilities.

    All should be returning billions in dividends.

    It should not be up to future generations as these were already there.

    Yet through ideological incompetence it has all been sold for less than the cost of the build and a small multiple of the dividend.

    Where has all that sale money gone to?

    Past and current politicians overseeing these deals should be dragged into courts to account for their actions.

    On top of that is the crazy expensive growth of private education, health services, childcare, aged care and many other services including prisons, detention centres, cleaning services etc.

    These cost more and the profits go off shore often without tax being paid.
    Our own workers who provided the services are out of work.

    It is a disgrace and we do nothing about it.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    8:30pm
    dstark, the wages a lot of young people earn are downright obscene. I have a relative who earns $130,000 a year for unskilled work on the roads! Another earns $200,000 a year for what amounts to low-skilled clerical work. Let's not talk about the salaries of CEOs of banks, Telstra, Aust Post, etc. Why aren't these people paying?

    We supported our parents and grandparents - generally on ONE wage. Furniture, appliances, cars, household items, clothes, etc were all many times the current price relative to income. We paid huge interest rates on loans. And now all this BS about us having it so good and spending like drunken sailors and wasting all the money. Who did? Nobody I know. But EVERY young person I know is living the high life: restaurant dinners every week, overseas holidays (with kids in tow), two new cars in the garage, 4-bed 2-bath 3-living-room brick home - brand new - with professionally landscaped gardens and a swimming pool. And then they whinge that they can't afford to pay tax to support the people whose hard work bestowed this lifestyle on their generation. CRAP! It's pure greed. But yes, we are to blame, because we spoiled our kids and created a sense of entitlement and unrealistic expectations. We paid for all the goodies they wanted as kids, and now they expect us to keep paying for their comforts despite them being ''adults'' (though they don't act it!)

    But if we did spend too much, isn't that a good reason for NOT making those who saved continue to spend more than they earn? Where is the logic in saying we spent too much, then saying ''You must spend more. Saving will be punished harshly.''
    margie
    16th Dec 2015
    10:33am
    Where are they managing to find money for all these refugees we are taking in? Funny we have no money for our farmers, homeless or elderly to name just a few problems that are being ignored. tisme has it right the politicians keep right on shovelling money into their accounts while taking as much from us as they can get away with, perhaps they have forgotten just who this money is coming from, that would be us, the tax payer. Need to show them at the ballot box that we will not forget this treatment
    Supernan
    16th Dec 2015
    10:59am
    All the refugees I know who are settled in Aus, work harder than most Australians. Which means they pay tax. What costs money is keeping them in detention & putting them into the community on visas that do not allow them to work. And I have employed some my self so I know this first hand. My son also works with a some. Met some from Telstra the other day, so polite so efficient & so hard working.
    The real tax savings would come from Taxing the money that rich people get tax free if they put it into their own super account, from taxing millionaires who pay no Tax & big companies who pay almost no tax.
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    11:49am
    Margie 12,000 sounds like a lot when you say the number, but they will not be coming in on 2 or 3 boats in the next month. This is an organised resettlement which will take a couple of years. And it is part of the continuing immigration which is essential for Australia's growth.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    11:54am
    Margie: plenty of money for Royal Commission smear campaigns, political advertising and new policies. But no intention of going after wealthy tax avoiders including multinationals.
    This government is solely after us and I hope that long time LNP voters are smart enough to ditch them. If not enjoy what we all get: poverty.
    Renny
    16th Dec 2015
    12:11pm
    its not the refugees. It's welfare to rich people that is killing the economy. $40 billion in Super Tax Concessions, tax avoidance through family trusts and negative gearing (we pay for you to get rich), participation in wars that are none of our business, detention centres that cost a bloody fortune and make us a shameful nation, stupid war planes that are lemons before we even buy them, payments to ultra wealthy schools to fatten their banks, supply ridiculous resources and grow their real estate and share portfolios. Do a bit more thinking than listening to Alan Jones and reading/watching the Murdoch propaganda machine. The ignorance of Australian voters staggers me.
    Perthite
    16th Dec 2015
    12:41pm
    Reducing care for the sick and elderly may backfire on them. If people don't get the care they need, then you will have more sick people on hand to care for instead of letting them recover and be a useful member of society. How many people have recovered from strokes and heart attacks through care by the medical profession and go on to lead useful lives. Maybe they think they will just kill off all the pensioners by not allowing them care.
    Jen
    16th Dec 2015
    2:46pm
    Totally agree, Renny.
    Anonymous
    17th Dec 2015
    8:25am
    ''$40 billion in super tax concessions to the rich.''

    So the rich fund their retirement with taxpayer dollars paid into a privately managed fund, but the Government says this is ''their money'' and not welfare.

    Conversely, the retirement of the poor is funded with dollars that THEY paid into a fund during their working life - a fund MISMANAGED by Government - and their retirement money is called ''Welfare'' and granted grudgingly only to a select group based on a perverted and unfair ''means test''. The poor got none of those generous tax concessions while working, so in a fair world they should be entitled to a taxpayer-funded retirement.

    It's interesting to note that the taxpayer contributes more to the cost of retirement of the average so-called ''self-funded retiree'' than to the cost of retirement of an aged pensioner. Much more, actually.

    So how the hell is one ''their money'' and the other ''welfare''?
    margie
    17th Dec 2015
    9:12am
    My point, which seems to have been missed is that there is money and billions of it for refugees BUT none for the needy Australians, many of whom have contributed and now need some help. I am not speaking of the rorters using the system but the farmers, elderly, sick and homeless, many of these are in a sad plight through no fault of their own. Yes definitely go after the upper end of town, we all know they have not only ridden the gravy train but own it. I am making the point that if there is money for this project, how about cleaning up our own backyard first, then we can look at helping others.
    tiger
    16th Dec 2015
    10:38am
    Start with smokey Joe Hockey cut his entitlements and all the other pigs at the trough. See how they like that why should the sick and poor again have to be targeted Remember the election is coming up soon you will have your chance to decide and get rid of the pigs then
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    11:55am
    Justice yes but raising significant revenue would not happen. For that to occur you would have to go after multinationals and close tax shelters for the rich as well as change avoidance tax laws. After that we would all have a fair go. Not just the wealthy.
    Renny
    16th Dec 2015
    12:17pm
    With you on that Mick.
    Wstaton
    16th Dec 2015
    12:24pm
    Just like some CEO's who failed. Instead of just getting the boot like most of use would if we didn't do our job people like Hockey and CEO's get a golden handshake.
    Wstaton
    16th Dec 2015
    12:26pm
    Lets not forget the big expense account Hockey will undoubtedly get. Wonder how this will get rorted.
    Emps
    16th Dec 2015
    8:15pm
    All multinational corporations negotiate terms with governments of the countries they invest in. Remember,they do not need to invest in Australia. Of course there are concessions, there has to be, to keep that sort of major commerce viable here. Why don't people commenting here realize, or understand what is required to balance the interest of business and the benefits to the country. All this rag is about, is a forum for left wing radicals to spout rubbish: Tax the rich multinationals? They contribute billions to this economy. OK, example tax Rio Tinto to high heaven, encourage them to divest all interest in Australia, shift all and everything they have to Brazil, and lets begin digging up iron ore, etc; with picks and shovels. Imagine the employment!. Hordes of labouring, sweating men, wow, we have full employment. Fixed.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    9:12pm
    Hot off the Press:

    Well here it is right wing Emp. Read it and then print your BS.

    "The Turnbull government has hidden a huge tax loophole for big business in the fine print of its Innovation Statement.

    The prime minister talks a lot about supporting Australian startups and new businesses, but this decision could instead end up funnelling millions in tax breaks to some of the world’s biggest firms.

    The government has proposed changing the way that tax deductions apply to intangible assets (such as patents and intellectual property) which could be a huge windfall for big businesses."

    Here we have corruption at work AGAIN from the government. It is unlikely that this is a mistake and more likely that the same government which is refusing to collect the correct amount of tax from multinationals is also also setting up the next loophole for them.

    THIS GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO RESIGN IMMEDIATELY.
    Peterrj
    18th Dec 2015
    10:16pm
    mick, I have complained before that you repeat yourself time and time again and this repetition from you starts to become boring and your comments become stale and without any credit.

    Haven't I read the above posting or one very similar by you very recently????
    tiger
    16th Dec 2015
    10:38am
    Start with smokey Joe Hockey cut his entitlements and all the other pigs at the trough. See how they like that why should the sick and poor again have to be targeted Remember the election is coming up soon you will have your chance to decide and get rid of the pigs then
    Circum
    16th Dec 2015
    3:07pm
    As long as you dont vote the other lot of pigs back in.
    particolor
    17th Dec 2015
    2:23pm
    OINK ! OINK !! OINK !!! :-)
    johninmelb
    16th Dec 2015
    10:40am
    I am just as unhappy as everyone else about these sorts of things.

    BUT why do you all keep whinging and whining about it every time there is an article here about these sorts of things.

    IF YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, then have a cup of tea, a Bex, and a good lie down. Don't come on here mouthing off about things you don't really understand anyway.

    GET OFF YOUR BACKSIDES AND START DOING SOMETHING to fix these problems. If you are not happy with the Government - whatever colour it is - then register your own party and get elected so change things.

    Methinks that if you did get elected, you would like the perks too much to change the status quo.
    johnp
    16th Dec 2015
    10:50am
    johninmelb, do you seriously think that when you reach the stage of being elderly and infirm that you will be able to do what you are suggesting. You ar deluded.
    maelcolium
    16th Dec 2015
    10:55am
    Seriously John, people get onto this site to express their views. WTF sort of a solution is forming a new party? Oh yeah, we all form our own parties just like that do we? Too stupid.

    You obviously don't like the site so how about you piss off so we don't have to put up with your ridiculous rants.
    mogo51
    16th Dec 2015
    11:00am
    A poor and ill informed comment. These types of forums are for just what we are all doing, to let others know what we think.
    This helps others to think and then eventually it will reflect in the ballot box.
    Like a more sensible poster said, what do you 10 million political parties of one member get a life.
    Supernan
    16th Dec 2015
    11:32am
    Well John, at 73, Dont have stamina or health to get out & campaign & nor do pensioners have the cash to do it.

    BUT spend a lot time campaigning on line with organisations working for change. Eg: Get Up, Community Run, etc. By email campaigns, we let politicians know how many of us are angry at what they have done. One thing pollies worry about is numbers !

    Also by researching facts & policies, can use Social Media as a way to spread accurate facts. Few read papers, see tv news, & (except for ABC) Media (owned by the wealthy), is very biased.

    So lots of us do a lot more than just "whinge" on this page !
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    12:01pm
    The thing to do johninmelb is to educate people who normally vote Liberal to change their behaviour.
    Voting the devil back in never changes the behaviour and the current lot will be like killers on steroids if the electorate does this.
    Voting for the other side also does not much change bad behaviour as it becomes my turn/your turn.
    The only way to fix a corrupt and disfunctional political system is to vote them out and to NEVER re-elect any candidate who does other than he promised or who does nothing. That way they do not get their superannuation perks. That is guaranteed to fix a dishonest and perverse system
    Perthite
    16th Dec 2015
    12:45pm
    Votes are wasted if you start up lots of small parties and that puts the government in power back into office. Also making an informal vote does the same. Decide who you want and vote for them even if it means always voting against the party in office. God help us if the Senate is ever the same as the government.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    1:55pm
    Peerthite: you are not seeing the game. Whilst you are correct about diluting the vote you fail to understand the preferential voting system. Your vote flows to whoever your candidate has preferenced.
    Works like this: all votes counted and last place candidate has votes given to whoever that candidate gave their preference to. Same thing happens again. Process continues until only one candidate left. This is the winner!
    Your strategy: pick an Independent whose vote goes either to the side of politics you back. If not pick another candidate whose preference also flows to the same party you want to back.
    For example........say you do not want this government to get in but you do not want to give your vote to Labor directly. Either pick another candidate whose preference will go to Labor or alternatively make sure the Independent you are voting for NOT preference Liberal.
    The only thing we all have to be careful of is that this government is playing its dirty game of putting up parties with puppet candidates so that it captures the votes. This should be made illegal with legal implications for those parties who try it on. At any rate this is where the public views of the candidate you choose are important. You will know whether or not they are stooges or not. This was the problem with a couple of 'retiree' parties selling their wares on this website a while ago. WHen I contacted them it was abundantly clear that these so called candidates were nothing more than the Liberal Party posing as Independents.
    Make your vote count!
    Peterrj
    18th Dec 2015
    10:48pm
    johninmelb, looks like maelcolium has told you what to do in no uncertain terms!!!!! I first thought that YLC was an independent forum to voice opinions about issues concerning retirees but that is becoming clearly not the case. Any voice or opinion that is even slightly against the misguided views of many who make these postings is made to feel most unwelcome!!!!

    Frankly, I don't support your suggestion to form your own party. So what? Big deal! But does that not justify me telling you to POff??? How vile is that???

    YLC is fast becoming a forum of like minded people expressing like minded views! These is no room for a contrary opinion!!!! And if you do dare express a view not generally held then you are told to POff??? I could say, WT????

    If YLC has any credibility they would remove the highly offensive and totally unnecessary posting by maelcolium. They won't! Which will prove my assertions in this post if that post is allowed to remain.

    LOL, YLC may remove my posting as being offensive!!!! So I may as well do a good job: YLC has become a LNP bashing site!!!!!

    YLC, if don't like the directing YLC is heading then do something about it! My bet is that YLC is heading deliberately on it's current course!!!!
    Adrianus
    19th Dec 2015
    12:23am
    Yes Peter, how embarrassing, and coming from a Scot?

    16th Dec 2015
    10:42am
    Cutback on welfare chests to save $2 billion over four years is about as realistic as Greg Hunt's promise to eradicate Australia's feral cat population (5-20 million) in two years, and now there's only one and a half years left, and how many have been dealt with? ZERO!
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    12:03pm
    Fixing welfare cheats and those who make welfare a lifetime job would have my vote. The real money is in getting multinationals and the rich to pay the correct amount of tax. This of course involves changing legislation tailor made for the rich so that there is no way around it with clever lawyers or accountants and this is an area where this government will turn its normal blind eye.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    12:40pm
    Be careful what you ask for, mick - give government a green light to assiduously chase out 'welfare fraud' and they'll start moving the goal posts.

    Someone I know was prosecuted for not supplying her income from a compo case while she was in hospital having work done on injuries.... they went after her even when it was a nonsense.

    I neither forget nor forgive that kind of NAZI approach by a then Labor government.

    On the subject of chopping off the big boys' handouts - any government that we installed that did that would be labeled Communist and we'd likely be invaded....... or punished in other ways. Look at the long stand-off between the US and Cuba.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    1:58pm
    I understand but the scum on the very bottom who are tearing down the nation need to be stopped. Perhaps a better way forward might be the Work For the Dole Scheme....but properly applied: you don't show up or you stuff around whilst you are there and you lose benefits. Quite fair!
    Anonymous
    17th Dec 2015
    8:39am
    Problem with ''welfare crackdowns'' is that many genuine cases are wrongly determined false claims, because over-zealous investigators just want to prove they are doing their job. Who makes the decisions?

    One man I know, who had actually been disabled for most of his life but struggled to work anyway until he was too old and crippled, was declared by a Centrelink employee to be ''fit to work'' (despite specialists declaring he had spinal damage, severe shoulder injuries, and was suffering PTSD and mental illness as a result of major abuse by the state in childhood) based solely on the fact that he got up out of a chair at the end of an ''ínterview'' (a total farce through which a diamond-dripping 22-year-old giggled constantly and didn't even hear the answers to questions) without grimacing with pain.
    This man had no education and had never been offered any form of job training whatsoever - despite legal entitlement and many applications. He had worked in heavy laboring jobs all his life. And he was 64 and 6 months old.
    A Centrelink bimbo declared he should be forced to do voluntary work 2 days a week, given physiotherapy and counselling, and he could be phased back into the workforce in 3 years' time (2.5 years AFTER he qualified for an aged pension!)
    The bimbo had ''social worker qualifications'', and she overruled the assessment of three doctors, two eminent specialists, and a psychologist. When challenged later, she said she didn't know how old the man was and she had ''not noted'' the 4 page notes on his background and the causes of PTSD and mental illness.

    With fools like this assessing, yes, they'll find ''cheats'' and save money.
    BrianP
    16th Dec 2015
    10:48am
    I have said it before - until people band together in this country and use people power to get a better government things will continue to spiral downwards. If you thought it could not get any worse you have seen nothing yet.

    The rich continue to get richer and the poor and elderly are poorer and more in number. Unless we combine our efforts, the rich and large corporations will continue to be protected.
    mogo51
    16th Dec 2015
    10:57am
    Well said Brian, for the life of me, I cannot see why the Grey Army does not go full on politically with a party that hundreds of thousands would join I am sure.
    SGW
    16th Dec 2015
    10:57am
    I agree and i vote independent if i can
    terrib
    16th Dec 2015
    11:12am
    We had the opportunity to start our own pensioner party over the last few years, the chap who started it tried desperately to get people to join but sadly had to give up due to lack of response. What does that say?
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    11:54am
    That we think this government is doing an ok job??? I don't know? What does it say???
    terrib
    16th Dec 2015
    12:04pm
    I read it that people say things like...well I've always voted labour, & my dad voted labour, so they won't instigate a change. I do not understand it myself. I thought it was great opportunity to have our say. It's not like we could get control but just to have our six bob worth.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    12:06pm
    Agree Brian. But it is all but impossible to convince people that their political 'footy' team needs to be relegated. Sometimes I just do not understand how some people think. How else can the ruling classes get away with what they get away with?
    Good call SGW. This is the only thing to change the bastards. SHow them the door. Both sides.
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    1:12pm
    terrib, I know what you mean. My dad had a holden so that was also my first car. There is, I think, a trust element involved in change. Also a tribal consideration. I imagine nobody wants to tear up, feeling like a deserter, at the sound of Bob Hawke singing Solidarity?
    I think generally, people just want to fit in. This causes their behaviour to be more in line with the expectations of others instead of applying some realistic empathy and individual thought? Having done so the outcome may be entirely different?
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    9:14pm
    Hot off the Press:

    "The Turnbull government has hidden a huge tax loophole for big business in the fine print of its Innovation Statement.

    The prime minister talks a lot about supporting Australian startups and new businesses, but this decision could instead end up funnelling millions in tax breaks to some of the world’s biggest firms.

    This should silence the BS you are posting Frank. Read it and cry. Same story keeps playing out and here is the next one.

    The government has proposed changing the way that tax deductions apply to intangible assets (such as patents and intellectual property) which could be a huge windfall for big businesses."

    Here we have corruption at work AGAIN from the government. It is unlikely that this is a mistake and more likely that the same government which is refusing to collect the correct amount of tax from multinationals is also also setting up the next loophole for them.

    THIS GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO RESIGN IMMEDIATELY.
    Peterrj
    18th Dec 2015
    10:59pm
    Déjà vu mick! For fear of repeating myself it's 'ditto' response!!!
    mogo51
    16th Dec 2015
    10:55am
    Again we are all here aghast at the continued targeting of the sick, elderly and aged.
    Despite loud and continued shout outs by the public of the need to make the tax sharing burden more equal ie. making the rich pay their fair share, it goes unheeded.
    No wonder the public has had enough of BOTH sides of Parliament. The next election may be the first kick up the butt for both of these parties - but even that would not wake them up.
    I cant see the problem with addressing GST issues and bringing them into a more modern and standard tax, covering everything, a big yes to wiping out Super rorts for the rich, Politicians rorts good bye!!!
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    12:09pm
    The thing about the GST mogo is that the rich may have to pay them but GST increases taxes significantly for poor people. The intention. And then we get what this government is gunning for: TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH. Its already in motion and if the electorate puts this government back in the blood bank then it's a done deal. So what are you going to do?
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    12:44pm
    The move is already afoot to cut company tax again.... why are companies not treated the same as workers and taxed according to their income (profit)? The more the profit, the higher the bracket.

    We get nonsense like companies in CBDs should get to vote in Council elections and so forth and be treated as what they are in reality - separate legal entities the same as Jo or Joe Worker and thus as quasi-human beings - yet when it comes to taxation........ the silence of the lambs.....
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    2:05pm
    And why are taxes not collected from multinationals? You should be aware TREBOR that the current government is 'owned' and elected by money from the rich and their corporations. So Liberal governments do little other than look the other way and reduce taxes for the wealthy at every turn. This is the game currently playing out with everybody else savagely taxed to pay for it. When they got away with the $8 billion a year cost to taxpayers from repealing the Carbon Tax they felt like they could do the same again. It's happening.......
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    3:28pm
    Frank: YEs, that is when Costello was swinging in his hammock drinking martinis. The fact that our deadbeat governments have locked the country into deficits is because they GAMBLED on ever increasing revenue from minerals whilst ignoring the lessons of prudent management. Only gamblers and idiots put all of their eggs in one basket. That pretty well labels politicans. Paid stooges for the most part. And corrupt ones employing people like you Frank. Look in the mirror some time. Can't be a pretty sight mate.
    Dot
    16th Dec 2015
    10:59am
    I'd like to see a revolution in this country, it give us the opportunity to hunt down the criminal
    dogs (politicians) and deal with them severely, but of course it'll never happen as long as everyone thinks I'm right jack.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    12:11pm
    Revolution only comes when you get polarisation of wealth: huge fortunes on the top end and abject poverty at the bottom. This has been building in the US for some time and it will get to a stage where people take the position 'we ain't gonna take it any more'. Then its game on.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    12:47pm
    I've studied terrorism/counter-terrorism and stuff.. and insurrections do not normally come about from oppression and deliberate disadvantagement per se - they come about primarily because of one of the most base of human emotions - INSULT.

    You can abuse a man and work him nigh unto death, starve his children, and use his wife as a scullery maid - and he will not revolt. Insult him and he will take to the hills and fight to the death.

    "Prudence, indeed, will dictate that government long established should not be changed for light or transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." - US Declaration of Independence.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    2:25pm
    The French Revolution is an example of where the greedy rich went too far. When Marie Antoinette laughingly told the hungry masses "let them eat cake" it was on. I look at what is happening in America and it appears that the mood is turning that way as hundreds of millions of Americans have been forced into abject poverty and many live in what we refer to as 'dump'. At the same time the other end has obscene wealth and tells the poor they should be happy with what they have. Sooner or later TREBOR there will be a trigger which sets the dominos falling and it won't be pretty. Revolution never is. But neither is the corruption which leads to gross inequality and everything belonging to the rich.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    2:44pm
    Oh, I agree totally - thing is that people have been beaten down here by successive waves of 'politically correct' "laws"and such for so long that many of them have simply lost the heart to carry on what they know is an unequal fight - against City Hall in all of its guises.

    I long ago wrote a thing on "Domestic Violence - Spearpoint of Tyranny" along the lines that the introduction of "laws" that permitted the state, without let, to impose sanctions on individuals proven guilty of no wrong - would lead to not only a destruction of the standards of the courts, but also to an extension of this kind of (non) thinking, so that more and more facets of everyday life would fall under the regime of some self-ordinated "right" of government, through its agencies, to impose sanction at will.

    I rightly deemed this a terror campaign.
    roy
    16th Dec 2015
    5:49pm
    All this "comes the revolution" mick could get you into deep water, these sorts of sites are monitored so as I say be careful. You may well finish up in court and what would we have to read all day with no posts from Komrade mick?
    Your a new James Dean but he was a rebel without cause.
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    10:04am
    The comment was a general comment on society and on the marginalisation of people. The ruling class has to understand that it may own the game but that populations need a fair go. You cannot starve people forever and believe that there will be no reaction. Marie Antoinette found that out, and sadly history does tend to repeat itself because of the nature of people.
    Peterrj
    18th Dec 2015
    11:18pm
    mick, if there is one thing one that can be said about you that can't be disputed is that you are no historian. Marie Antoinette NEVER said , 'Let them eat cake!' That was said 100 years before Marie Antoinette by Marie-Thérèse, the wife of Louis XIV. But mick, you never let the truth get in the way of a good story floated by you, do you???

    So there is the challenge to mick and his blind followers .... Prove that Marie Antoinette said, 'Let them eat cake!' What credible reference can you cite apart from Aesop's Fables???
    SGW
    16th Dec 2015
    11:04am
    We should all cut our spending to only necessities, that would give them something to think about. It wouldn't change there rorting the system though
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    12:16pm
    "We" do need to live a more meagre lifestyle SGW. It is understood that we are living beyond our capability to maintain and the expectation that the party will never end is never true in any country. It is ending in ours currently and low ore prices are yet to hit us much worse than we already are feeling. Wait for it.
    The current issue is however more complicated. Last night Morrison raved on about cutting expenditure but he never addressed the forgone minimum of $100 billion a year through multinational tax evasion, superannuation tax rorts given to the rich and the whole mechanism of taxation which allows the wealthy to structure their affairs to avoid the tax system needs to be ended. WWE NEED A FAIR TAX SYSTEM. It currently is only optional for those who are well connected. As Kerry Packer once said in front of a senate inquiry: "I choose whether to pay tax or not".
    Tombo
    16th Dec 2015
    1:02pm
    As a matter of interest Mick, where do you get this '$100 million a year' figure from?
    Sceptic
    16th Dec 2015
    1:40pm
    You surely do not expect an answer Tombo.
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    1:55pm
    mick, when the LNP romped in at the last election, the iron ore price was $120 it is now $38. How much lower do you think it will go?
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    3:26pm
    Here we go..........the 2 trolls at it again!

    Tombo: multinationals $80 billion, superannuation concessions to top 20% of income earners $20 billion. Check for yourselves!

    "Budget emergency". "Age of entitlement". "Lifters and leaners". "Unsustainability". ANd the slogans go on.........

    Oh yes....."lefties"? By all means continue to push for more taxes for average citizens and reward the greed at the top at the nation's expense. The next government will repeal any bad legislation which is passed. Count on it. Even the bad bad Murdoch empire will be unable to stop that.
    Sceptic
    16th Dec 2015
    7:08pm
    Even the ALP only estimate the avoidance of off-shore tax avoidance as being $7.2 billion. Published estimates of savings on Super are around a max of $5 billion a year.

    Higher taxes will not get us into surplus. reduced spending Is what is needed. But just look at the howls from every sector whenever that is raised. With an intransigent Senate just about every reduced spending measure has been either negotiated down or outright rejected. And yet the shouts for spending more on health, the NDIS and education continue. Why no just freeze spending at 2014 levels, excessive as they were, for say five years. After all despite the fall in commodity prices the total tax take has still increased.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    9:16pm
    The ATO might not agree with you Sceptic. Here is a piece hot off the Press:

    "The Turnbull government has hidden a huge tax loophole for big business in the fine print of its Innovation Statement.

    The prime minister talks a lot about supporting Australian startups and new businesses, but this decision could instead end up funnelling millions in tax breaks to some of the world’s biggest firms.

    The government has proposed changing the way that tax deductions apply to intangible assets (such as patents and intellectual property) which could be a huge windfall for big businesses."

    Here we have corruption at work AGAIN from the government. It is unlikely that this is a mistake and more likely that the same government which is refusing to collect the correct amount of tax from multinationals is also also setting up the next loophole for them.

    THIS GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO RESIGN IMMEDIATELY.
    Peterrj
    18th Dec 2015
    11:21pm
    mick, 'Hot Of Tne Press' ... Yawn, You are so predictable!!!,
    Supernan
    16th Dec 2015
    11:04am
    How predictable ! No changes to super concessions. So the rich can go on earning lots of money which is tax free if put into their own pension. No changes to tax perks for big companies which they use to pay very little tax, no millionaires tax. No changes to huge subsidies to coal mines & dirty energy. More jobs losses in health care, age care, etc etc. How can they sleep at night ?
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    12:17pm
    And no intention of forcing multinationals to pay tax. That is the really big one.
    niemakawa
    16th Dec 2015
    9:17pm
    You should have tried harder during your "working" life.
    terrib
    16th Dec 2015
    11:09am
    I am afraid they have taken a very bad turn here. It is obvious to blind Mary that the way forward has to be reducing all lurks & perks these pollies have become accustomed to. I know it will never happen but surely to goodness even they know they are sitting pretty when it comes to retiring, even if they are not old enough. They then go on to lucrative positions outside of politics. How greedy are these people? Do they have any conscience at all when cutting us pensioners back on basic requirements such as health & then raking in all the benefits for themselves when their pockets are already bulging? I don't know how they can sleep at night.
    Scrivener
    16th Dec 2015
    2:20pm
    Again, look up the Babiak and Hare diagnostic criteria for Psychopathy - these evil, self-serving pollies qualify. Psychopaths - they feel no guilt. They do sleep at night - it's the sleep of the smart, smug thief who believes 'there is one born every minute'. Predators prey on the weak - we owe nothing to predators.
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    3:34pm
    We all need to do our bit. If you think you are in a group which doesn't need to share some of the responsibility for the mess we are in, then please explain why?
    Scrivener
    16th Dec 2015
    4:35pm
    I'm 74 Frank, I've done my bit - more than you could ever know.
    Socdemtory
    16th Dec 2015
    11:10am
    Currently you are billed for the full amount of a MRI ie approx $280, if referred by a GP. Its only fully covered when referred by a specialist
    Wstaton
    16th Dec 2015
    12:33pm
    And on top of that you have to be referred by a GP to go to a specialist.
    Circum
    16th Dec 2015
    3:47pm
    Thats not true actually.My GP referred me to the MRI place where I was bulkbilled
    KSS
    16th Dec 2015
    4:23pm
    Then count yourself lucky Circum. The 2 places near me that offer MRIs and CT scans have never bulk billed or even partially bulk billed regardless of who made the referral.
    Mike
    16th Dec 2015
    11:11am
    Politicions just gave themselves a 21/2 payrise, and Bronwyn Bishop, ans also Julia Bishop continue spending taxpayers money on themselves like theres no tomorrow. This is after Hockey destroyed the retirement plans of an estimated 560000. Also Foreign multi nationals are allowed to continue to pay minimum tax due to their strong lobbying. Obviously the money needs to come from somewhere, so obviously the pensioners, the sick and elderly are the easiest target.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    3:36pm
    Multinationals are paying less than 10% tax (the corporate rate is 30%) because they have found loopholes in the Tax Act. The real perversion is from the current government which REFUSES TO CLOSE THE OUTS and allows the corporate sector to continue the merry game.
    Meanwhile we have an (apparent) budget emergency engineered by the current government so that it can hit up average Australians and give the top end tax cuts.
    Where are the fair dinkum voters of the nation????????
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    3:45pm
    What??!! Not another conspiracy again??!!
    Circum
    16th Dec 2015
    4:00pm
    Totally agree with your comments.I would not be surprised if in many cases the lurks and perks politicians received,amounts to peanuts compared to the amounts passed under the table to act in a certain way eg.contract/supplier approvals.Power pays.Happens everyday in business..even the unions do it.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    9:17pm
    The (inconvenient) truth hurts!
    Glen48
    16th Dec 2015
    11:12am
    Crack down on Fraud..like fed pensions...super...lying...like to see that...
    This is all good news worse to come
    bartpcb
    16th Dec 2015
    11:21am
    Nobody is fooled by Morrison's smug rhetoric. He's a typical Liberal, right wing of Attila the Hun. His mantra for reaching 'National required targets' would be, "Leave behind the old and the young, they just slow us down". He'll just spin it into a more palatable phraseology just like any car salesman.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    3:38pm
    "Used car salesman" is on the money methinks.

    16th Dec 2015
    11:32am
    The government is more than eager to spend $400 million on 12,000 Syrian refugees who could very likely have terrorists among them, like the Syrians who slaughtered the people in Paris. Is this a sensible, responsible action by the government who is SUPPOSED to have the interest and safety of it's residents a top priority rather than kissing the backsides of the rest of the world with emulating humanitarianism feelings for possible murderers who are also an added weight to welfare spending, unemployment of current residents, emergency services (police), housing shortages, etc, etc?
    Glen48
    16th Dec 2015
    12:29pm
    700M plus
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    1:00pm
    Thanks, Glen48, you are quite right. It makes it almost twice as bad. Disgusting!
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    2:09pm
    Agree with what you have all stated, its time to get rid of our gutless corrupt pollies and vote for another party who will stand by the Ozzie battlers.
    Stop all refugees before it is too late, if not already too late.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    3:40pm
    Spot on. Money can always be found. Just like the $80 million Royal Commission smear campaign. And then it becomes an "age of entitlement" cry.
    I can only hope that Australians tune out of the lies which come from this most dishonest of governments and do not vote for it again. God help us if they get back in.
    roy
    16th Dec 2015
    4:42pm
    God help us if labor get back in, the prolific spenders, but never fear, I'm going to vote for mick, he has such a brain on him that he will sort everything out. Go for it mick, I'll help fund you, give us your bank a/c details and I'll transfer some money post haste.
    Give my regards to your wife, have you seen her lately apart from mealtimes? That poor lady, shakes head.
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    10:06am
    Labor gave the country employment during the GFC as well as something tangible. This government is a transferor of money to the rich and useless waste. The $80 TURC which achieved nothing must be in your mind John and the increasing debt is a sign of the utter mismanagement.
    KC
    16th Dec 2015
    11:39am
    So much money is wasted on government departments. They give each department a budget. If the department doesn't spend it all in the financial year the departments budget is cut the following year so as the financial year end is getting close the head of the department just spends the money on anything, upgrading mobile phones for all the staff when the current ones are fine, putting fridges, new tvs in the lunchroom, couches, buying new computers when the current ones are fine and numerous other purchases just to spend all their budget. I've seen this happen. Why doesn't the government just top up their budget if they don't spend it all. This would save millions, probably more, think how many government departments there are. The government has no idea how to manage money. They just spend, spend and spend. And let me tell you about QBuild, the governments tradesmen who over quote everything. Why don't they get quotes like any normal business. No QBuild are the only ones that do the work. It's a joke. Whoops spent too much, now we have to cut back and who do they target, the POOR AND LOWER INCOME Earners
    Renny
    16th Dec 2015
    12:04pm
    You need to look closer at this. Government departments provide the services you need. If you haven't had contact with Centrelink then you won't be aware that they are really struggling with massive cuts to staffing. It now takes ten weeks to get a pension approved for goodness sake. Yes there are pockets of waste, but they are few these days. It's more like everything now has to go through the PM's control centre. His department is now huge and duplicates the work of the expert departments and a key reason we see so many stupid policies. Public Servants generally work their backsides off for a seriously ungrateful populace. How the hell do you think it all happens? By magic?
    Rae
    16th Dec 2015
    3:09pm
    A lot of what you think are government services are actually private contractors. Is QBuild government or private corporate owned?
    Circum
    16th Dec 2015
    4:27pm
    K.C Government depts have been wasting money for years in the way you mention.Spend the money or your budget goes down.Sadly governments have done nothing to change the system.One would think that if a department wanted a lower budget allocation for the next year then that should be a good thing and maybe any efficiencies could be applied elsewhere.
    Nahh to logical..more likely to ask for a 10 % increase to offset any budget cuts..Your taxes at work.
    Renny..Its the system ie.procedures and policies which give centrelink a bad name.The staff generally do work very hard but they are restricted by an inefficient system..but yeah most customers dont realize that
    Rosret
    16th Dec 2015
    11:57am
    I just wish they would aim at rationalising compulsory health checks. i.e.Seeing a dr for a day off when a cold is keeping you home. Medicals for the elderly drivers over 75 NSW. Why? They are always going to the doc anyway and our road stats are the worst despite targeting the aged. etc etc etc. A 15 min trip to the doctor is now $70 - it hurts ...and its almost always accompanied with a script or referral - now they want to target the life saving MRIs - odd choice when there is a huge gap in the very expensive cost associated with this test.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    3:42pm
    Given how many older drivers end up crashing into peoples homes and driving off high rise car parks it will only be a matter of time until older drivers are required to get their own medical certificates. Or worse.
    Rosret
    17th Dec 2015
    8:39am
    Seriously, Mick? Take a look at the stats. Maybe the under 25s need psychological testing before being given a licence. Roll on Google cars - humans obviously are totally irresponsible. PS I am being cynical.
    Renny
    16th Dec 2015
    11:58am
    Are they blind or just too wrapped up in their own ideology to see beyond their noses. There is a huge revenue issue with corporate welfare going to those who don't need it, and billions being spent on the war machine when we're not threatened. What a useless pathetic and stupid mob this lot are. Every cut leads to loss of confidence. And to less spending. Stupid Australians who voted in this lying mob.
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    11:59am
    The government has no control over the bulk of it's revenue. While it should have some control over the bulk of spending, it does not. That control rests primarily with the Senate and people like Motor Enthusiast Party, the Sex Party, The Palmer Ununiteds etc.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    3:46pm
    More right wing propaganda from your sponsor Frank.
    The government REFUSES TO COLLECT REVENUE FROM TAX AVOIDERS: multinationals ($80 billion), superannuation rorters (the rich) $20 billion. Please spare this community your perverse BS Frank and your shifting of blame to where it does not lie.
    The current LNP government is totally responsible for refusing to govern in the interests of the nation. It was not elected to govern for the 1% but that is what it is doing.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    8:38pm
    What nonsense, Frank. If people like the Motor Enthusiast, the Sex Party and Palmer United controlled the budget, we would NOT be seeing retirees and the sick and disabled attacked. In fact, we'd be seeing huge increases in pensions, funded by reducing tax concessions on superannuation and removing tax loopholes that let multi-nationals and the very wealthy off the hook.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2015
    7:53am
    Frank is into propaganda Rainey. Cash for comment. He well understands that his employer will not force the rich to pay tax. To add insult to injure I discovered yesterday that Turnbull's Innovation announcement also applies to large multinationals. Not just small startups. This government has HIDDEN a way for multinationals to escape tax and I suggest this is no accident. Just like the superannuation system was set up so that the rich could milk it. They have for decades. Now time for the next one. It is what it is.
    Peterrj
    18th Dec 2015
    11:35pm
    I just love reading mick calling Frank full of B Sxall the time.

    It just confirms that one of them is a fanatical idiot!
    Cooky
    16th Dec 2015
    12:03pm
    Hey! EVERYONE of the Pensioners that post on here, how about WE all DON'T vote for Anyone of them?
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    2:10pm
    AGREE BUT WHO DO WE VOTE FOR?????
    Rae
    16th Dec 2015
    3:13pm
    Yes Cooky. Hi! My Dad's family settled at Curra Creek in 1817.
    Lovely Yeoval with those cute innovative roadside sculptures.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    3:48pm
    I thought that voters would vote for PMs who represented the country. The Liberal PArty seems to have none of these and the Labor Party seems to have some idiots. That leaves Independents to fix up the mess and government the country in the absence of Party sabotage and vested interests.
    Not too hard when you give it some thought.
    niemakawa
    16th Dec 2015
    8:53pm
    Jannie ALA
    Mygasheater
    16th Dec 2015
    12:13pm
    The MYEFO is "not a budget" said ScumBro Morrison yesterday, so won't the cuts have to go before Parliament before they take effect?

    How about closing the tax loopholes that allow multinationals to avoid paying taxes, how about ending negative gearing, how about ceasing funding to private vocational colleges (and private schools for that matter), remove the rebate on private health insurance, how about cutting subsides to the extractive industries, putting an end to offshore processing, withdraw defence forces from the Middle East. That's just a few ideas off the top of my head that will save billions.

    Oh, you could delay your 2% pay rise on 1 January 2016. You have failed to meet your key performance indicators.
    Rae
    16th Dec 2015
    3:16pm
    It is appalling that they give themselves a pay increase on the very day they strip money from the retired public servants leaving many with income problems and no way of overcoming them.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    3:50pm
    What...make multinationals pay tax? That's about as bad as asking the rich to not money launder through the superannuation system: unspeakable.
    Pamiea
    16th Dec 2015
    12:31pm
    Personally I think those that can afford to pay private health cover should have to pay for it and stop bleeding the government and the rest of us. As a pensioner on my own I take responsibility for my health and pay $88 odd per fortnight and am assured that if I have a health issue which requires surgery or hospitalisation I can choose the best.
    Wstaton
    16th Dec 2015
    12:41pm
    And where you do finally need to call on it you will probably find that you are not quite as covered as you thought.

    See how our (used to be state owned) medibank is now screwing the hospitals on some of the cover.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    2:12pm
    Even if you have private health cover you are not fully covered.
    I had an op recently and was out of pocket $1000. I have decided to pull out of private health fund. Rely on the system which is in a horrible state.
    Rae
    16th Dec 2015
    3:18pm
    Are you happy with the 6% increase in premiums each year and the large out of pocket expenses when you do use it?
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    3:53pm
    I have watched the huge increases for years Rae. I fail to understand what part of "CPI increase" the health industry fails to understand. And you wonder why people opt out?
    It looks to me as though everything 'American' is coming to Oz. Health system, taxation, the divide between rich and poor. So much for our wonderful society.
    Circum
    16th Dec 2015
    4:51pm
    Anyone can buy and pay for health insurance.The government made the decision to give people rebates.So no ones bleeding anyone.Its true people with the highest cover get the highest benefit as its a percentage.you dont need to be rich to have the cover (but you better have some coin in the bank to pay the GAP if you go private).As others mention,you might like to go over your health insurance document.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    8:44pm
    I quit private health cover when an operation cost me $3000 on top of what the insurer paid, and the surgeon botched the job. He then refused to see me for a follow-up consultation, despite being told I was very, very ill, because I hadn't yet paid his bill. I was too sick to think about bills, but I took my cheque book with me to the follow-up consultation and offered to pay everything that was owing, including that consultation. Offer rejected. Too late. Won't see you!

    Went to another doctor who bulk-billed and referred me to a public hospital where I had the same operation again, paid nothing, got 1000% better care, and had doctors phoning me at home afterward to check that I was okay.

    Then the final insult. My health fund sent me a letter offering me benefits on gym membership and trips to Seaworld! But wouldn't pay for the essential health care my weekly payments were supposed to cover.

    Yes, I opted out. I could afford the premiums - just! But I could not afford the out-of-pocket costs and extras that greedy doctors charged when patients disclosed that they had health cover, while patients with no insurance were billed at lower rates by ''compassionate'' doctors.
    Budwah
    16th Dec 2015
    12:31pm
    Don't those idiots in Canberra realise that their wealthy mates don't have enough votes to re-elect them. It's the "middle" & "lower" wage earners as well as pensioners & sick people that can kick them out of power. If only we all remember at election time the miserable way they have been treating us.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    3:56pm
    That's why they have Rupert Murdoch. Sadly voters are too easily conned and fail to understand that Murdoch, the fossil fuel industry and right wing governments around the globe all work together.
    If voters ganged up on the criminals who never have to account for their deeds then they would all be gone. Long ago. Sadly the bastards are used to fooling the majority. That's why they are the masters and we are the conquered.........
    Circum
    16th Dec 2015
    4:56pm
    Thats why we are where we are.The previous lot treated us miserably so we voted them out.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    9:18pm
    Actually the Murdoch Press voted them out. And the other big business owned media outlets followed like sheep. That's what a propaganda campaign is.
    thommo
    18th Dec 2015
    8:59am
    Yes Budwah, I'am hoping that is exactly what happens at the next election and good riddance to the scums.
    MD
    16th Dec 2015
    12:40pm
    Very obviously an issue close to everyone heart. It is however an extremely complex one, I could join the queue and complement the offerings of those 'preaching to the converted' although one wonders what, if anything at all is to be achieved simply by 'venting our spleen'. Yes, although I am aware a number of contributors have offered varying 'solutions' these, bye and large are 'band-aid' fixes (to say the least). We must acknowledge respect for each individuals' input and one would hope that in so doing we may then collectively arrive at some vague concensus of a POSITIVE nature. This will never be achieved simply by slinging off at the incumbent politician(s) and regardless of party platform one would hope that these elected representatives are themselves endeavouring to contribute POSITIVELY.
    If we refrain from attacking our fellow man (no gender bias meant) then maybe some good may come as a result of individual input. Negativity reaps less, positivity reaps more. We should forget about what we perceive others windfalls and benefits to be as oftimes these have been over-hyped by the very mediums that a number of people alluded to.
    As one contributor suggested, "Get off your butt and do something about it", another mentioned lodging online complaint or objections. All worthwhile input whatever means we utilize, just so long as we 'do something' as opposed to bleating and registering our lament. I imagine a good number of folk & certainly I do, welcome the opportunity to 'share' our views and opinions. We should however limit our respective input to as much FACT as we have to hand instead of confusing or clouding the issue with unnecessary hyperventilation. I enjoy this opportunity to register an opinion - I would hope collectively we can convey the 'thrust' of our comments to the relavent quarters. Thankyou.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    4:06pm
    "Get off your butt and do something about it"???

    Perhaps convince people you know not to vote for this government and to consider boycotting both sides, choosing a suitable INDEPENDENT and making sure this person's preference is not Liberal.

    Mission accomplished!
    Peterrj
    18th Dec 2015
    11:41pm
    MD, I think that you ask too much from this YLC site ie. Respect every person's opinion!

    and mick's reply was all too predictable wasn't it?

    16th Dec 2015
    12:58pm
    This site is always good for a laugh. Any story about the coalition brings out the usual suspects full of bluster and bravado, lots of words and backslapping, immediate rubbishing of whatever the subject is and no solutions. The next step will be to attack those who the Labor stooges think are coalition supporters with bile and vitriol. There is complete denial of how we as a nation got into this mess, no mention of Rudd, Swan or Gillard, no mention of the BER waste, no mention of cheques to dead people and family pets, no mention of future uncosted thought bubbles that Labor now claims were legislated. For God's sake people, enough of the problems, give us workable solutions. Don't tell us that politicians' pays need to be cut, tell us by how much and tell us the total savings. Most of all, don't lie to us, we've had enough Labor lies to last us a lifetime.
    roy
    16th Dec 2015
    1:23pm
    You are so right Old Man, the usual suspects like Mike. Does he not have a life outside Your Life Choices? Every single subject he posts on and is usually the first, he must drive his wife absolutely bananas that's if she ever sees him. Shakes head.
    He really ought to be PM because he would sort all our problems out i not time at all.
    He pleads poor and then tells us about his skiing holidays in Europe, again shakes head.
    Scrivener
    16th Dec 2015
    2:42pm
    Er!!! Who is it that is hurting us right now?
    Scrivener
    16th Dec 2015
    2:47pm
    I just looked at Mick's opening post and it seems to me he did make a valid suggestion - let me quote him - "COLLECT THE RIGHT TAX FROM MULTINATIONALS AND CLOSE THE SUPERANNUATION TAX SHELTERS FOR THE RICH as well as the other tax shelters and tax avoidance mechanisms used by our wealthy to avoid paying their share."
    Isn't that a good place to start? Seems reasonable to me.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    2:49pm
    Oh good one Scrivener, again with a whinge directed at a part of the problem and again a generalisation directed at the coalition - no details just innuendo. Try again but next time be specific and rather than cast aspersions, give us a workable solution.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    2:55pm
    OK Scrivener, let's look at mick's ideas shall we? What is the right tax that multinationals should be paying? How much do they pay now? What are the superannuation tax shelters for the rich? Oh and by the way please define rich. Putting words in upper case doesn't make them sensible Scrivener, they still come across as the words of someone who is big on rhetoric small on facts.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    3:58pm
    How about we stick to the issues - play the game and not the man....??
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    4:11pm
    Old man: the worst form of denial is using propaganda from the right wing trolls.
    You blame Labor and there is a case for this. But you refuse to mention the GFC. In case you were asleep during that one the rest of the planet was sacking workers in the high millions. NOT AUSTRALIA. You can't have it both ways Old Man.
    Also, blaming the canary in the coal mine is another cop-out. If you told the truth then I'd give you kudos for it but sadly your post is not factual and you appear to be twisting the facts to do what this government routinely does: blame Labor for the ills of the world whilst doing unspeakable things to destroy the viability of average Australians to have a fair go at life.
    Tell it as it is.
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    4:15pm
    I heard recently that Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard who actually stopped the boats.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    5:48pm
    Well, thank you mick for joining in. I can't thank you for your comments because they are disjointed and hard to decipher. You lead in with a curious comment about using propaganda yet all I did was ask for proof to support statements.

    Yes, I blamed Labor because they need to shoulder some of the responsibility. No, I didn't mention the GFC because although Swan kept claiming he saved the world with his stimulus packages et al, Treasury has repeatedly claimed that Swan went too far with his handouts. People seem to forget what caused the GFC, it was junk bonds that started it and there was a domino effect. Costello, as Treasurer, in the 2000's, told our major financial institutions not to deal in those bonds which, in turn, left them above the problem.

    I have no idea what a canary and a coal mine is all about but it reminds me about the ill-fated carbon tax which cost you and me cash out of our own pockets. The result was that we were poorer, the world stayed the same and Labor lost an election over it.

    Read my post carefully mick, there is truth there but, more importantly, there is a request for you and your mates to back up your statements with facts that prove your point. True to form, and as predicted, you attacked the messenger.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    8:49pm
    OldMan, if you weren't so blinkered you would do some research and learn that we are in this mess because of Howard and Costello giving unaffordable tax cuts and concession to the wealthiest 20% during the boom. When the boom ended, Labor was stuck with these unaffordable commitments. If those commitments hadn't been made, the LNP would not have inherited a deficit, because the cost of that ill-conceived generosity to the rich was equal to the deficit the LNP inherited. So how was anything Labor's fault? I don't like Labor, but I refuse to see them unfairly blamed for a problem caused by the Howard LNP Government.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    9:13pm
    Thanks Rainey, I'm so pleased it wasn't my fault but the fault of the rich (nobody wants to define 'rich'). Again, the stated 20% comes without proof. So, the billions in reserve, no national debt and a balanced budget was wrong. The over generous stimuli by Labor was Howard's fault. Was Howard also to blame for opening our borders and letting in 50,000 illegal immigrants with the associated costs of many billions? Now, don't misread my statement; the immigrants were illegal because they entered Australia without the proper documentation. They may well have been legal refugees but they didn't wait to be invited. By accusing me of being blinkered, you have done what I predicted; attack the person not the argument.
    roy
    16th Dec 2015
    11:04pm
    We are awaiting your response Rainey, hallo where are you?
    Anonymous
    17th Dec 2015
    8:53am
    The 20% does NOT come without proof, Old Man. I don't make up the figures. Treasury does. And the figures were publicly released.

    No, the billions in reserve, no national debt and a balanced budget weren't wrong. We had a boom. Tax revenues were huge. But Howard made commitments that Labor was stuck with - like huge super tax concessions and greatly reduced capital gains tax. The billions in reserve weren't put into a wealth fund for later, as they should have been. They were squandered at the end of the Howard reign giving huge tax cuts to try to buy votes because the LNP knew it was on a losing streak.

    Now, how was Labor expected to reverse those cuts and still remain in office, pray tell.

    Labor made plenty of mistakes - expensive ones. But only a blinkered and misguided LNP supporter would neglect to place a large part of the blame for our current economic dilemma where it belongs - with Howard and Costello.

    The fact is that when this LNP came to power, the entire deficit could have been eliminated merely by winding back superannuation tax concessions to the wealthy. So who is to blame for the deficit?

    Let's stop accepting the hollow excuses of politicians and playing their destructive ''blame game'' and start focusing on answers. We have the option to reduce the deficit substantially by cutting super tax concessions to those who don't need them, by modifying capital gains tax rules, by re-examining negative gearing, and by tightening loopholes used by large corporates to avoid tax. Labor, the Greens, Palmer, GetUp, and a large number of economic advisory groups (many of them dominated by LNP supporters, actually) have advised the government how to fix the budget WITHOUT hurting the poor.

    But what does Turnbull do instead? Cuts welfare and health and opens a new loophole for big business to avoid tax!
    Anonymous
    17th Dec 2015
    5:28pm
    Thanks Rainey, you see when I asked for proof, a link to the Treasury public release would have shut me up, not restating the alleged figure.

    Silly me, I thought we had $40B in a wealth fund that is still there because Costello was smart enough to make it Labor-proof. You wonder how Labor could reverse the cuts and still remain in office but then suggest that the coalition should have wound back super benefits to the wealthy. (BTW, still waiting for a definition of rich which you now choose to call 'wealthy'.) This may have stopped them remaining in office perhaps?

    I agree, let's stop accepting the hollow excuses not from politicians but from those who sit on the sidelines and snipe. Again your suggestions are without substance. Who doesn't want super concessions? How should the capital gains rules be modified? How would you change negative gearing? What are the loopholes that large corporates use to avoid tax. (Please define large corporation)

    I am amused, perhaps frightened is more appropriate, that you would want Labor and the Greens advice on anything fiscal. Haven't you been listening, it's that pairing that got us into so much trouble in the first place. Palmer is in more trouble than a one-armed paper hanger with the hives and GetUp is a Labor stooge.

    Turnbull has not cut welfare and health. Welfare will be taken from those who aren't entitled to it and the lies about health stem from Labor's insistence that their thought bubble was legislated. Since Labor lost, health has had an increase in funding.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2015
    8:01am
    Old man: I do not recommend Labor but I do say that the current lot are not interested in this country one iota. The only legislation on the agenda from this government is tax cuts for the rich and more tax for everybody else. We get talk about the nation but everything that occurs comes back to the above. Even Turnbull's Innovation statement has provisions in it for multinationals to opt out of tax when it was targeted at start up companies. This is how this government operates.
    I may appear to be pushing a Labor barrow but I do not. I continue to say AVOID BOTH SIDES OF POLITICS and vote INDEPENDENT (for a candidate with a Labor preference so that your vote does not go to this bad bad government). Only that will end the game. ANything else just gives you more of the same.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2015
    5:06pm
    Aw mick, you are a crack-up. You don't recommend Labor but you suggest that we vote for an Independent who has a Labor preference. Someone like Craig Thomson?
    Peterrj
    18th Dec 2015
    11:52pm
    Good on you Old Man for starting his post. I got a kick out of it!!!!

    You dared to open you mouth and I was thinking where is mick?? Then predictably Up pops his head calling you a troll!!! I don't even know what a troll is apart from a mythical being in Scandinavia??? Not to be disappointed, in comes the researcher Rainey. And it ends with mick, 'vote independent but not an Independent who give preferences to the LNP' ... and he denies his Labor leanings!!!!

    Agreed, It's a laugh a minute!!!!
    Janus
    16th Dec 2015
    1:01pm
    This hit a raw nerve, and so it should have.

    I have asuggestion for some serious savings:
    1) Cancel the order for at least 3 of the submarines.
    2) Stop spending squillions on bombing another country somewhere else in the world
    3) Close down the concentration camps in Nauru and New Guinea (save a $billion)
    4) Curtail politician's fancies -office refurbs, parties, unnecessary travel etc.
    and so on.

    We all know them. however the pollies don't think that the elderly and sick have the intelligence to vote or they think we will all forget this punishment by the next election.

    I certainly won't.
    Paulodapotter
    16th Dec 2015
    1:08pm
    Agreed Janus, not to mention the tax concessions for the wealthy and the billions in subsidies paid to polluters, eg the coal industry.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    4:14pm
    Partial agreement but the last thing we need to do is bring in more immigrants. Somebody has to pay for infrastructure and dole payments you know!
    Perhaps focus on collecting revenue due from the rich and multinationals. Close down the accounting and lawyer outs of tax.
    Paulodapotter
    16th Dec 2015
    1:05pm
    They won't succeed on this one, no matter how much they cry "poor". I'm surprised they think they have that much political capital. Poor old Malcolm hasn't a hope of selling this one.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    4:15pm
    Hope you are right. Average Australians are pretty gullible and will believe most anything they hear on the 7 and 9 media or read in the Murdoch propaganda rags.
    Scrivener
    16th Dec 2015
    4:42pm
    Well, I'm not far off agreeing with this observation. Not putting too fine a point on the correct or exact meaning of 'average', if you assume that average is about half of the population then half of the population have an IQ below average. I wonder who they/we vote for.
    Circum
    16th Dec 2015
    5:08pm
    Scrivener ,Last election you voted liberal.Prior to that you voted labour
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    9:20pm
    And there lies the problem. Voters need to spit both sides out.
    Scrivener
    17th Dec 2015
    1:32pm
    Circum, I voted for Donald Duck. Actually I mostly vote for an Independent to help split the vote for any major party. Doesn't matter who you vote for you still end up with a politician in Canberra. The problem is not the parties, it's the politicians. They are all self-serving.
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    2:26pm
    I certainly do agree with you Scrivener but you have to look closer at what the current crew are up to. Its not just imbecilic behaviour from elected representatives. This crew are involved in serious Class Warfare. Average Australians are the target. If you look where they are sending money and from whom they are trying to take it then the picture starts to become clear. The interests of the nation are only of concern if they benefit the big end of town. And you wonder why we are backpeddling.
    particolor
    17th Dec 2015
    2:33pm
    You know what Mick ! I think they are wonder where to get all the Funds from to Pay for the New Imports ? And the Old and Fragile wont mind Donating ! :-).. HAPPY CHRISTMAS ! :-)
    MICK
    18th Dec 2015
    8:04am
    The money has to come from somebody parti. The weakest who have the least power. Guess who.
    thommo
    16th Dec 2015
    1:39pm
    Morrison and the rest of his cronies in this Federal Liberal Govt are a bunch of despicable morons. In their spin and hype about a 'budget emergency", they make a hit on the poorer sections of the community and those needing medical services.
    They never make a hit on the wealthy or the big end of town, or themselves.
    Why don't they target politicians overly generouse pay packets and perks, and especially their generous taxpayer funded pensions (indexed for life etc), but no, they have to hit the vulnerable.
    They're a pack of liars, and if they get back into govt, they'll bring down a very tough austerity budget just like Abbott tried to do in 2014.
    Morrison and his far right conserative mates (eg Dutton, Andrews, Corrman et al), and even Turnbull, are wolves in sheep's clothing.
    They've broken promises galore, and the age pensioners alone will kick them out of office at the next election for the unfair change in the assets test commencing 1.1.17.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    4:18pm
    Glad you understand what we are dealing with and tune out to the lies they tell. Next step is to make sure you remember when you rock up to vote otherwise next time around will be far far worse.

    16th Dec 2015
    2:04pm
    As I said before we are not considered and the amount of pension we get is not enough to live on. What do we do???
    I feel seeing we are now the majority we could vote for a new party, lets hope we can choose one suitable to our needs and the everyday Australian, not the imports who seen to be considered more than us.
    Scrivener
    16th Dec 2015
    2:15pm
    Yep! It's back to dog food. I am actually serious.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    4:19pm
    Respectfully if you own your own home you should be managing well. Renters may be struggling though. Our pension system is not the best on the planet but not all that bad so if it were a case of bad management (don't know?) then one cannot blame the system for that.
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    4:22pm
    Renters would be better off than owners in terms of cash flow.
    Scrivener
    16th Dec 2015
    4:55pm
    Frank, have you actually done the maths. I'm renting and the balance in my bank account is diminishing faster than it is replenishing. Will you put me and my wife up in your rent-free mansion when our money runs out? I'm 74 and it seems that when we reach zero balance I will be about 78 or 80. You tell me how I pay rent then. Everything in this half year budget is genuinely a cause for apprehension and concern. My profile is not so dissimilar to others this budget is aimed at. It is a little unfair to attack us for the opportunities we have had in life - Morrison did not give us those. We were volunteer workers who helped others in need - now we are approaching a time when we will be in need. The work we did cost us both a lot in terms of our health including cancer and a bunch of other chronic problems. Who will help us? You, Frank?
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    6:13pm
    Scrivener, I didn't mean to spoil your moment of whinge time.
    The way I see it.....

    It costs around $400 per F/N just to own a modest house which would rent for around $600 per F/N.

    You would receive more than half of that in rental assistance, where as the owner/occupier receives no assistance.

    You pay $150 the owner pays $400. What other extrapolation is there to do??

    Unless you are living beyond your means (which is a trait of Labor followers), and expecting others to pay for it?

    If my calculations are wrong I would be happy to be proven wrong.
    Sceptic
    16th Dec 2015
    7:14pm
    Oh dear Scrivener, is that the problem with all of the ranters today. Perhaps they, like you, fail to understand that the MYEFO is not a budget, but an update on how the last budget is going relative to forecasts.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    9:21pm
    Thanks for the clarification Liberal Party staffers.
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    9:32pm
    Well Scrivener, Consider yourself called on BS.
    You and your fellow whinger mick have absolutely no credibility.

    "Frank, have you actually done the maths. I'm renting and the balance in my bank account is diminishing faster than it is replenishing. Will you put me and my wife up in your rent-free mansion when our money runs out?"

    Yes, I've done the math. And no I will not share a house with a whinger. Prove me wrong or confirm your shallow greedy whinging? Which is it to be??
    roy
    16th Dec 2015
    10:46pm
    mick, it's our pleasure commie party member, keep the red flag flying high. Touche.
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    10:11am
    And as you know I SUPPORT NEITHER SIDE dear trolls. Look at the corruption in your employer's organisation. High level corruption.
    douwe26
    16th Dec 2015
    2:06pm
    It is always the sick the elderly and poor who pay with any government but the pollies on both sides don`t mention there own .I think it is about time we start to get a lot more aggresive with all government and do not let them walk all over us
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    4:22pm
    They walk over you because you keep voting for them. That is the key. Vote them out. Of course this requires grassroots numbers and you and others need to convince your friends and family that this is the solution. Ultimately if people do not want to be told or want to continue with their 'footy' team political party then we all get what we deserve.
    Over to you.....
    roy
    16th Dec 2015
    10:43pm
    Were you a heart surgeon or a brain surgeon before you retired, you seem so clever, we need somebody like you as PM, go for it micky you have my vote.
    Jules
    16th Dec 2015
    2:09pm
    Being one of the underprivileged who needs a huge amount of health care ( I have 3 major illnesses and at least a dozen small issues). I am under the care of at least 3 specialists; I need to see my GP are once every couple of months; I need blood tests every 3 months....without fail ......and I'm living on a disability pension and living in public housing....so is my husband. It's just plain bloody scary. I understand the need for cuts in spending but, I wonder f any of the politicians (not a statesman among them) will put a freeze on their salaries or pensions in order to cut government spending. it is, after all, our money they are spending. Who knows where we'll end up?? I could probably handle working one day a week to offset any costs but, anything over a certain amount the Govt takes 40% and NSW Housing takes 25% off the top before the Govt gets their cut so, what's the point. I'm not good at the maths but, at a guess, for very hour I work I would be lucky to end up with 35%. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    4:22pm
    Some people are doing it tough. Chin up.
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    4:35pm
    Jules, I can empathise with you. I am in a similar situation. I have a terminal illness under the care of a specialist. I have blood tests every 3 months. I see my GP every 2 months. I have surgery every 3 or 4 months. I have spent all my money on Health care. I am about to have more surgery next week. I am renting. I have no job. I have no government support. I am in a state of avoiding the inevitable. I am avoiding everything. I have given up.
    How can I say to you don't give up?
    Rae
    16th Dec 2015
    8:01pm
    Frank 0402 582 217 Unorthodox biological chemist.
    Don't ever give up mate.
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    8:46pm
    :-)
    Biddy
    16th Dec 2015
    2:11pm
    One would think if they cut their own spending and stop converting on overseas trips and reign in their own debt then the people may be agreeable to helping fix this problem,but every time they open their mouths it is to hurt the older and most vunerable,they think nothing of spending money on a 10 thousand pay rise for Malcolm Turnbull which he gave himself,orang a 2% pay rise for all ministers,this is done very quietly so people may not be aware of this,also spent something like 300 thousand for Barnaby Joyce to repair his office and re do some of his other country offices,and then there is George Brandis over seas ,Christopher Pyne,Julie Bishop also running up big debts, by these politicians one just get so sick of these rorts and spending by the chosen few,they never tell the public how much they have spent and even why, we put them into power and we can put them out again they forget whom they are serving,all they say is we will keep you safe and you must work,save and invest,with what when they keep putting up everyone's
    Scrivener
    16th Dec 2015
    2:11pm
    That is the nature of smiling evil.
    Jen
    16th Dec 2015
    2:21pm
    I wish I believed in Karma and only LNP voters required blood tests and MRIs in future. It would only be fair. ;)
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    4:10pm
    We know pensioners are all left wingers and a bunch of whingers with a give me more give me more attitude you lot should have provided for your retirement not have to bludge off the Government
    Patriot
    16th Dec 2015
    4:12pm
    Jen
    I do!
    If for no other reason than to KNOW that they'll get their "Due rewards".
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    4:23pm
    Only if they came back as poor people. It would indeed be karma.
    Circum
    16th Dec 2015
    5:42pm
    Thats a nasty comment Jen.People can change partys to vote for based on their merits at election time.People who always vote labour or liberal is similar to a donkey vote and therefore should not be permitted to vote .
    Jen
    16th Dec 2015
    5:46pm
    Oh poor Circum, didn't see the wink.
    Circum
    16th Dec 2015
    6:21pm
    :(
    Biddy
    16th Dec 2015
    2:31pm
    Once again the Government attack the aged and welfare reciepents also for services that are used by the people the most of course all these charges will be passed into them if Scott Morrison thinks otherwise then he is more stupid then Malcolm Turnbull,if you remember he just gave himself a 10 thousand dollars extra pay rise plus 2 % pay rise for all his own ministers one gets really sick of these poloticans rorting the public purse,and then have the hide to ask people to pay for use of diagnostic and pathology test to be done ,while Christopher Pyne and MsJulia Bishop run around Israel,and George Brandis runs around Jordan on Tax payers money and they continue to tell the people to work ,save and invest,try it Scott Morrison on a normal wage and see how hard it is,you and Malcolm Turnbull are a good pair to run the country,spending tax payers money to keep you in politics,you are a bunch of Morons,the people voted you and the people can put you back in opposition because that is where you should be
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    3:57pm
    I disagree that we should only be able to put them back in opposition... exchanging one comfy wicket for another is all that is.

    We should be able to sack them totally, like any boss would us for failing in our duty.
    Happily retired early
    16th Dec 2015
    2:31pm
    Turncoat Turnbull the smiling assassin. The Australian public will pay dearly every time they get sick, it is just Abbott and Hockey failed Policies recycled.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    4:26pm
    It's a process Happily retired. This right wing government is on a mission to turn Australia into the next America: where 15 own 90% of everything and 99% own the shirt on their back and are the slaves of the rich earning $10 an hour if they are lucky. That is the end game.
    Scrivener
    16th Dec 2015
    2:40pm
    Just thinking, as I look at the rants here, including mine - we still live in a democracy. If you said this sort of stuff in China you would never be seen again. But it does let us vent our frustration and that is actually healthier and better than bottling it up - so good on YLC, and thanks for being a voice of democratic thinking. If the Pollies read this stuff there are real signals they should attend to. A lot of wisdom here and a lot cautionary advice. If the Pollies ignore it they will pay the price. Why? Because we are a democracy and we vote.
    TwainAndHume
    16th Dec 2015
    3:15pm
    Thumbs Up, Scrivener .....
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    3:34pm
    Who you going to vote in Scrivener Mr 14% Billy boy Shorten that idiot and his merry band of union thieves had 6 big years to fix these problems and did nothing .
    They had huge taxes paid by mining companies and saved nothing so we are in this predicament.

    A bunch of pensioners voting does not influence anything and never has most of them are to stupid to fill out the how to vote form properly.
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    3:43pm
    Pensions have increased more in two and a half years under this government than they did during 6 years of the previous government.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    4:29pm
    You forget Scrivener that Tony Abbott and his cronies tried to shut down the ABC for opening up debate to the TRUTH. This government wanted the edited, highly controlled one sided 'discussion' which you see with the main media and Murdoch rags. Our free speech is still there but fragile when you have Liberal governments in power trying it on so that they can behave like a dictatorship with nobody saying boo.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    4:30pm
    Yeah Frank.....and federal government salaries DOUBLED, pay packets of the rich exploded and average Australians got zip and were told that it was not affordable.
    Scrivener
    16th Dec 2015
    5:16pm
    Gently, Mick, gently. I didn't forget it. I just thought the discussion - as angry as it is - is a healthy thing and it struck me that this site is a rare and precious thing just for letting it unfold. I offered no allusions or inferences or implications regarding any forgotten misdemeanours. I have forgotten nothing. PERIOD.
    Sceptic
    16th Dec 2015
    7:19pm
    Hey mick, you have forgotten that the ALP tried to shut down all media except for the ABC. Please enlighten us just how many of the right are in the employ of the ABC and the non-Murdoch papers, and compare that to those of the left who are employed by the Murdoch group.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    9:23pm
    I have noticed Sceptic that you and Frank are now behaving like parrots and playing back what I put on the record. Are you guys really that brain dead?
    I did not know that people from the left were employed by the Murdoch media. You must be kidding!
    roy
    16th Dec 2015
    10:39pm
    Oh micky, are you getting a little bit cross now with Sceptic and Frank, time for your cocoa and then off to bed like a good little commie. Don't forget to kiss your 'photo of Joe Stalin goodnight and think of your next skiing holiday in Europe you poor little pensioner.
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    10:13am
    A tag team of 3 right wing stooges. Be original. Tell the truth. I know....not in you! Just like your political Party.
    TwainAndHume
    16th Dec 2015
    2:47pm
    Once again just shows that the Coalition is adamantly opposed to the National Health System. It is a constant underlying theme they return to when given half a chance. No mention it would seem of trying to get more revenue from the wealthy end of town .... corporations or individuals.
    Attempting to balance the budget on the back of those with the least is an appropriate description of this MYEFO .... "deja vu all over again" (back to 2014 at the very least) ..... poor ......
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    4:31pm
    Follow the money trail and it always leads to big business and the rich with the current government. So what else does one expect?
    KSS
    16th Dec 2015
    6:25pm
    Not sure I can agree with your assertion that the Coalition is against the National Heath System TwaineAndHume. The latest 'leak' is that the private health subsidy (that has already been wound back) will be discontinued altogether. IF that does come to pass there will be far more people relying on the National Health System as they drop out of private insurance. Wait for the squealing then by all those having to give up their 'entitlement' to the subsidy. If they truly wanted to disband medicare, they would make private insurance more achievable for more people and they are not likely to do that are they?
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    10:15am
    I was of the opinion that this government is trying to copy the American system: you buy your own health care or die in the gutter and the 1% need to own 90% of all wealth. Am I wrong?
    Happy Jack
    16th Dec 2015
    2:58pm
    Moaning Morrie and Joe's cigar smokin mate are at it again; moving in on the quality of life of those least able to pay for their dirty grubby methods of endeavouring to balance the books. I'll say it again; move into the tax evaders with their negative gearing, Super breaks and family trusts along with the international companies avoiding tax. Can you imagine an Australian company avoiding tax in the USA- they'd never get away with it, that's for sure.
    Young
    16th Dec 2015
    3:46pm
    What did we expect?
    Cuts have to be made.Some of us will be hurt but it has to be done.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    4:32pm
    Except for the big end of town. It gets tax cuts. But citizens need pain!
    niemakawa
    16th Dec 2015
    10:47pm
    No pain, no gain. Live with it.
    Young
    16th Dec 2015
    3:48pm
    Pensioners are well looked after in Australia.
    Sickofit
    16th Dec 2015
    4:08pm
    No they are not.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    4:13pm
    They certainly are Young they get too bloody much we should look at putting them on food stamps that would save a few dollars
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    4:34pm
    That is why Tony Abbott increased the retirement age to 70: so that workers would drop dead when they retired whilst the rich could retire a decade earlier. And that is why the assets test was savaged: so that average workers could be banned from even a part pension.
    Yeah Young. Tell me about a fair go!
    LiveItUp
    16th Dec 2015
    7:39pm
    I agree pensioners are very well looked after in Australia.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    9:02pm
    In 2009, Australia had the second highest poverty rate in the developed world among aged people. If pensioners are well looked after, things must have improved a great deal since then. How much has the pension increased in the past 6 years?

    Hmm,maybe not so much. Oct 2014 update:

    ''According to the index, Australia has the highest old age poverty rate (35.5 per cent) in its region, which includes countries in Western Europe, North America and Australasia."

    Where's your evidence, Young and Bonny?
    roy
    16th Dec 2015
    10:14pm
    So mick, what would your best friend Joe Stalin suggest that the retirement age should be?
    LiveItUp
    16th Dec 2015
    10:56pm
    It all depends on how you define poverty. In some parts of the world our pensioners would be considered to live in pure luxury.

    My eyes are my evidence as I do notice things and just shake my head at times. Go to the club during the week it's full of pensioners, go on a cruise more pensioners etc. If people can do these things they are not living in poverty. Poverty to me means not having anywhere to live, no food to eat, no clothes. Very few pensioners in Australia have these problems.
    Anonymous
    17th Dec 2015
    9:10am
    In other words, Bonny, you work on anecdotal evidence and assumptions (ASS-U-MEs that make you a prize ass!).

    Of course there are parts of the world where our pensioners would be considered to live in pure luxury - just because most don't live in the gutter or a cardboard box. And yes, there are many who can afford to cruise and gamble. I know many who do. That means nothing. People can get pensions while their younger partner hoards millions in super. People who can earn while drawing a pension (as long as they are not ''asset tested'' they can earn a lot and still be pensioners). Many privileged people actually get two pensions - Comsuper + aged pension. Sure, the age pension is reduced in that case, but their total income rises dramatically.

    Those who have nothing but the pension are doing it tough.

    Poverty is correctly assessed relative to the living standards of others in the same country - NOT by comparing with another nation that has an entirely different living standard overall. What poverty means to you is totally irrelevant, because you don't get to define it. But if you want to see our pensioners living in the gutter and eating from garbage cans, you are a sick person. And that's what will happen if the pension reduces. It is already insufficient for the needs of those who have no other income.

    Why do you constantly carry on about cutting pensions (misnaming them ''welfare'' and ignoring the fact that they were bought and paid for during working lives) yet not object to the massive welfare handouts to rich superannuants in the form of tax concessions that total billions? I suspect plenty of those claiming huge tax reductions also go on luxury cruises, buy expensive cars, etc. And hoard millions to leave to their offspring.
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    10:17am
    John: Your posts like 3 other so called posters all come from the same person. It must be awful when you look in the mirror of a morning. How can you bear what you see? Sick man.
    Sickofit
    16th Dec 2015
    4:07pm
    Attack the aged again.Why not cut spending on welfare OTHER than the aged.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    4:35pm
    The aged are a much easier mark as their mental faculties are fading and they generally care little about politics. Let's get 'em Tony....
    niemakawa
    16th Dec 2015
    9:06pm
    We are a dying breed.
    roy
    16th Dec 2015
    10:10pm
    Hey mick, if the cap fits, wear it. You mentioned mental faculties fading not us, your poor little wife!
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    10:18am
    Sick comment John/Frank. Welcome to the Liberal Party!
    Sickofit
    16th Dec 2015
    4:12pm
    I've voted Liberal for over 40 years but, no more. Think about it, Labor get in because welfare recipients vote them in otherwise, Liberals will do what they are doing now - cutting welfare BUT only to the persons least able to retaliate. Well, I'm now a member of the Mature Age Party and we WILL be listened to.
    Anonymous
    16th Dec 2015
    4:15pm
    Your kidding me you wont win a seat
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    4:20pm
    Labor will do it tough. Many voters have deserted them for the Greens and LNP. I've also heard they could lose a few to the new Islamic party. I've heard nothing positive about any Independents but I guess it depends on the electorate.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    4:37pm
    Well said. Enough has to be enough and betrayal should never be repaid with support of any sort.
    Frank: good try mate but on polling day people may not want to vote for Shorten but they will vote against this corrupt government. As I said above enough is enough. Not even your paid advertisement or a new leader is going to alter that.
    Scrivener
    17th Dec 2015
    1:21pm
    robbo, you don't have to win a seat, you have split a seat.
    Young
    16th Dec 2015
    4:48pm
    Yes, we got through the global economic storm because the previous government had the money saved.Kevin Rudd gave money to those who did not need it.My mother got $700 and she is not on a pension.What a waste.Also many schools were given halls that they did not want.Totally incompetent.
    Scrivener
    16th Dec 2015
    5:19pm
    I wonder who got paid, in a world wide financial crisis, to build them? Crickey workers got an income in the face of a recession. Is that a bad thing/
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    9:25pm
    Apparently it was because Rudd put the nation into debt to provide it. Imagine the screams if Australians had lost jobs and we had reached 20% unemployment. Then he would have been blamed for not putting the nation into debt. You just can't win with the Liberal Party can you.
    Dotty
    16th Dec 2015
    4:56pm
    I agree wholeheartedly re taxing the Multinationals that are getting away with blue murder as far as Taxation is concerned ! We as a Nation are paying their share of Tax just to have the Privileged of having them and their Companies here earning great amounts while we as Australians suffer the brux of Tax !
    Young
    16th Dec 2015
    5:47pm
    Yes,workers were paid to build school halls,but he much better it would have been if they had built what individual schools wanted.
    And how much better if money had been given to those genuinely in need.
    Rae
    16th Dec 2015
    8:11pm
    Our local High School got a renovated Science lab which was really badly needed.

    One of the primary schools put in for a new canteen which was so much better and cleaner and safer and the other got a new classroom block to replace the ageing asbestos portables.

    It was money well spent as the new medium density zoning changes meant the schools were overpopulated and needed some money spent on them.

    It wasn't all school halls. I believe one of our fancy private schools got brand new sandstone pillars and wrought iron gates.
    KSS
    16th Dec 2015
    8:30pm
    Rae undoubtedly SOME schools did get much needed facilities. BUT at what cost? At the time schools were queueing up to complain about the amount of money that was spent (even when they were the beneficiary of such largess) all because they were forced to go through a centralised system that was far more expensive than using say the local suppliers and tradies. I seem to remember one school saying they could have got the same or better school hall for less than half what was finally paid had they been allowed to use local suppliers.

    Other schools as you say got pillars and gates, a library to replace the brand new recently finished library already in place, halls and yes even canteens they didn't need and the list goes on.
    Adrianus
    17th Dec 2015
    5:46pm
    So why did Federal Labor poor money into Private schools? They have always been opposed to government funding of Private Schools?
    I thought education was a state responsibility?
    MICK
    18th Dec 2015
    8:13am
    The ongoing call from the paid trolls about schools and pink batts is simply a ploy. As you said KSS the rorts we few and far inbetween.
    About time that posters focussed on the current batch. It amazes me that the letters GFC never seem to come up and that posters allow the paid trolls to keep coming back to the same old tripe and deflect scrutiny from this bad bad government.
    How about we start to focus on the Carbon Tax repeal: who benefited from this and what it now costs taxpayers annually. And then there is the next Liberal Party initiated Royal Commission witch hunt: cost and purpose? And then maybe why this government absolutely will not end the unfair flow of money to rich superannuants and to multinationals? And last cab off the rank is Turnbull's Innovation statement: this document has hidden in it tax outs for multinationals....as if this government had no idea!
    You discussion line Frank is propaganda. Nothing more. We aren't buying!
    Adrianus
    18th Dec 2015
    9:17pm
    Since when do you speak for all YLC posters mick??
    The GFC was a non event politically when Rudd assured Australia that we had nothing to be concerned about. It was a USA problem and Australia was insulated due to the big and many forward contracts we had with China. According to Swan the "pipeline of investment was enormous."
    How can people be expected to believe that a "set top box' , "home insulation", "cash for clunkers", "schools halls" , Home insulation removal" and "demolition of school halls" programs saved us from the GFC. Our politicians from both sides are peeing in our pockets. Howard was diplomatic when he said He thought they went too far with the second round of stimulation cheques.
    We are being sold a dummy.
    The US is now pulling out of the GFC, evidenced by the 100% rise in the fed cash rate.
    Meanwhile here in OZ we have KPIs which looked better during the so called GFC.
    If we still had the carbon tax it would have been a lot more than $8b. We would also have much higher unemployment due to the closure of more mines. Which is exactly what the tax was designed to do. Close down certain businesses.
    I would imagine all the whingers would be pleased we are transitioning the economy at a more sensible pace.

    16th Dec 2015
    5:47pm
    labor stooge micky contributed more than 50 or just under 30% of the 180 comments on this article, most if not all was dribble, yet it shows how hatred can foul one's brains, in his case however it shows how brainless labor trolls can get.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    9:26pm
    Here is another one right wing troll:

    Hot off the Press:

    "The Turnbull government has hidden a huge tax loophole for big business in the fine print of its Innovation Statement.

    The prime minister talks a lot about supporting Australian startups and new businesses, but this decision could instead end up funnelling millions in tax breaks to some of the world’s biggest firms.

    The government has proposed changing the way that tax deductions apply to intangible assets (such as patents and intellectual property) which could be a huge windfall for big businesses."

    Here we have corruption at work AGAIN from the government. It is unlikely that this is a mistake and more likely that the same government which is refusing to collect the correct amount of tax from multinationals is also also setting up the next loophole for them.

    THIS GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO RESIGN IMMEDIATELY.
    Peterrj
    19th Dec 2015
    12:13am
    AHHHHH, I will go mad if I read this Hot off the Press cut and paste posting by mick once more.

    heemskerk99, But it does tend to prove your assertons about mick, doesn't it!!!!
    Adrianus
    19th Dec 2015
    12:43am
    Heemsy, mick may have 50 posts to his credit but many of them have been cut n pasted. Mine are all originals LOL
    Sickofit
    16th Dec 2015
    5:52pm
    Mick, I bet you're a Labor voter and on welfare or, maybe just a blind fool.
    KSS
    16th Dec 2015
    6:29pm
    Actually Sickofit Mick is a failed Independent candidate who no-one voted for. Hence the chip on both shoulders
    roy
    16th Dec 2015
    7:02pm
    Sickofit, mick is just a silly little bored man who has nothing to do all day, his poor wife, shakes head.
    Rae
    16th Dec 2015
    8:14pm
    Were you three bullies at school too or is it a new development?
    KSS
    16th Dec 2015
    8:21pm
    Nothing bullying in stating the truth Rae. Mick himself 'confessed; to being a failed Independent candidate who was rejected by the very people he sought to represent. If anyone is a bully it is Mick himself with his derogatory insults to anyone who disagrees.
    roy
    16th Dec 2015
    10:08pm
    I think that mick is far too thick to be bullied, his poor little wife.
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    10:20am
    Rae: I'd suggest we have employees of the Liberal Party posting here. Many of the comments have the same offensive tone. You won't get any logic or facts from this/these guys. Just uncorroborated insults.
    Where's a webmaster when you need him!
    Jen
    17th Dec 2015
    2:06pm
    Insults is all the LNP have left. They've nothing to offer Australia or Australians. They'll take away from the average Australian to prop up the wealthy and big business, in subsidies and tax breaks, even trying to hide the names of those who're not paying their fair share. Suffer Australia! But you'll have your chance to put things right next year.
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    2:55pm
    Yeah Jen. There are 3 or 4 posters who refuse to argue the facts ans simply run the Abbott style slogans, and then get abusive when one puts the facts in front of them.
    Vladimir Putin has a whole building where his army of trolls are paid to combat anyone who does not agree with him. Paid by the state. Some of our posters here fit this profile and I'd suggest that this government may well be up to the same tricks. It would be one of the best stories of the year should our media chase these people down. Not too hard really. But then as I have maintained for some time, with the exception of the ABC and SBS, most of the big media outlets are either Murdoch empire outlets or local big business controlled.....the reason why Abbott tried his best to shut them down.
    Keep posting Jen. The bastards cannot win if ordinary Australians do this.
    Peterrj
    19th Dec 2015
    12:16am
    mick, who said, 'Let them eat cake?'
    Kato
    16th Dec 2015
    5:52pm
    Smirk mcgirk Morrison. A smooth talking salesman. Thinks he can pull the wool over everyone's eyes and ears. He should start by auditing expenditures of all pollies and there must surely be a few million in cuts close down the restaurants in parliament house they can take there own lunch just like most other people. Use there own transport now that would save a motza.
    particolor
    17th Dec 2015
    3:13pm
    I can just see Tony, Bronny and Cormorant sitting there eating Peanut Butter Sangers !! :-) :-) :-)
    Kato
    17th Dec 2015
    6:12pm
    Of the marble top table and then they dance. On the table of course ????
    Kato
    16th Dec 2015
    5:53pm
    Smirk mcgirk Morrison. A smooth talking salesman. Thinks he can pull the wool over everyone's eyes and ears. He should start by auditing expenditures of all pollies and there must surely be a few million in cuts close down the restaurants in parliament house they can take there own lunch just like most other people. Use there own transport now that would save a motza.
    Sickofit
    16th Dec 2015
    5:58pm
    The public don't vote for the PM, the party does. I thought everyone knew that but apparently not.
    Eckles
    16th Dec 2015
    6:29pm
    Interesting to note that the pollies got a $10k pa increase just a few weeks ago, must be the money they took away from part pension retirees!!!. they must need it more.
    We are in a mess and it is our money that has been burned in the furnace of waste and grand, impracticable ideals. We do need to repair our economy, the cost to part pensioners is in the vicinity of 12%pa. and I think most would accept if the spread had been shared, who else would be prepared to give up that much of their income - what we see instead is a build up of demands for more pay.
    Some of the things that would be nice for Governments to consider:-
    The asset test should be adjusted back upwards, perhaps half way between the proposed $825 and current value of $1125, making it $975, or even change the taper rate to $2.
    improve tax collection, police dodgy schemes and fraudsters - individual and corporate .
    Rework the incentives so that they serve a purpose and not just a give away.
    List could go on forever but in the end what we really need is a Government or party that does not exist, nor can I see one into the near future.
    gravy
    16th Dec 2015
    6:57pm
    This was due to the increase they were "due" to make up for the Wage Freeze they had under Abbott. I have included a link below to an article about it but it will be a 2% increase.

    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/public-service/politicians-judges-and-top-public-servants-to-gain-2-pay-rise-after-wage-freeze-20151209-gljesr.html

    I am not defending the rise I am just providing a link so others can read about it.
    gravy
    16th Dec 2015
    6:48pm
    The problem we face is that a very large proportion of Australian Businesses are either foreign owned, or are supplied by Foreign Owned Corporations. Nearly every light bulb, TV', Fridge, Stove, Electrical Wire, Rope, Fuel and so on including food stuffs are either produced elsewhere or have the majority of their contents from foreign sources. This in turn leads to the Australian Tax base shrinking.

    You buy the products (the majority of us anyway) that cost the least to your budget yet provide the most to you. So, for example, when we buy shirts even if they are from an Australian Company the product is mostly likely manufactured in another country and at that probably in China.

    Why? Because it is cheaper to do so. The business that sold you that shirt has to recoup the cost of production, transport (including distribution), wages, and other costs of selling the shirt. Then if they want to stay in business they must also make a profit to live on. So the major part of the cost of that shirt leaves our shores. Because even with the profit they have to purchase the goods that they use to live with and those goods mostly come from Overseas so that profit leaves our shores for the most part.

    The situation is even worse if the Company/Business is foreign owned as the Foreign owner wants the profits to be returned to them. So if the foreign owner has us paying all the costs and then removes their profit as well. It is a drain of our wealth at a much larger rate. We then sell what we can to foreign markets to recoup some or hopefully all of this outgoing. Unfortunately we have little to fall back on other than mostly Mining and Primary Production to recover this as most of our totally Australian owned Industry no longer exists. The result typically for Australia is that we normally have a trade deficit.

    Much of the debt in Australia is not Public Debt (Government) but in fact is private debt. Companies buy Trucks, Machinery and so on from Overseas and they get into debt (loans) in a lot of cases to fund these purchases. Even if they go to an Australian Bank to get the loan the Bank funds it from money they borrow from Overseas.

    To turn this situation around we need to circulate the money within the Australian Economy without it leaving our shores. But in this day and age it would seem almost impossible to return to a past era where we had a lot of Australian owned and produced product. Holden and Ford do not count as they are both US owned Corporations and really have never been anything else (Holden for a very short time was Australian until GM bought it).

    So Governments by the fact they allowed almost unchecked Foreign Ownership of our businesses and land have now only us (meaning people) left to fund the things we want our Governments to provide us. We have already become the "slaves" and the loss of Services will seem likely to continue until our lifestyles are much poorer than they are now. This is our sad reality.
    Luisa
    16th Dec 2015
    7:38pm
    Hey everyone, all the 'whinging' and comments are very interesting and above all passionate. I do not understand why the grey power political party did not take off, but in lieu of that why do we not, as LifeChoices, start a petition to voice our discontent with the general ideas of all governments, i.e. tax the poor and elderly and allow the rich to enjoy tax benefits. Let's not even talk about politicians' rorts!!

    Petitions seem to work these days with the power of mass media - why not put your "money 'where your mouth is" and voice off in public instead of "preaching to the converted". Forgive all the cliches, but whinging to each other does not get us very far.
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    2:56pm
    Sounds good to me. Who is going to run with it? YLC would be the obvious middleman. What do you say guys?
    Adrianus
    17th Dec 2015
    5:48pm
    he he he. You realise that YLC is A-Political.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2015
    8:45am
    One really has to wonder when posts from what are clearly paid posters are permitted to run as comment.

    16th Dec 2015
    8:00pm
    where is labor troll micky's answer, probally gone to bed early as he missed out on being first in to-day's article of y.l.c, put the bait up and the the brainless will bite, especially those classified as labor stooges and trolls, read the amount of comments they make, the result, 90% of the comments belong to the welded on labor stooges or members, they are not game enough to state these facts, forget about those who states they voted for many years libs or whatever, they would not even be capable of spelling these words, as the saying goes,' it is hard to divide 2 brains between a hundred no brainers", even harder of no brains between the lot. have a happy christmas and enjoy 2016, just think, when are we all going to put our shoulders to the wheel?
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    9:28pm
    Did not know you could count. Maybe you did get to year 3 in primary school after all. Thanks for the laugh. Needed one today.
    roy
    16th Dec 2015
    10:07pm
    mick just does not give up, his poor wife, how does she cope with him?
    Adrianus
    16th Dec 2015
    10:14pm
    It's possible she may have him sedated most of the time. I imagine he is locked in his study and given his meals through a trap door.
    roy
    16th Dec 2015
    10:19pm
    Well said Frank, I love that but she lets him out when they go skiing in Europe and he tells us that he is a poor little down trodden pensioner, shame.
    He is a fount of all knowledge, every subject on here he has something to pontificate about, I am getting sick of looking at this once interesting site because of him. Are you listening mick?
    Adrianus
    17th Dec 2015
    11:33am
    Far too wealthy for the pension John. A pensioner doesn't buy property in Japan. Private nurse I suspect? His wife should be the next Australian of the year! Try not to encourage him :)
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    2:58pm
    Team troll at work. Government employees methinks!
    particolor
    17th Dec 2015
    3:08pm
    I just cant wait for the Prooomases coming up in the Next Election !!
    :-) :-)
    THERE WILL BE NO ! I REPEAT, NO CUTS TO......
    blondie
    16th Dec 2015
    8:05pm
    drop the 70% loading and more older people would try to access their own health insurance are paying so much to try and keep out of the public system that it will probably bankrupt so be it - we need to know that we can be taken care of
    LiveItUp
    16th Dec 2015
    8:33pm
    Good idea a user pays system. This would stop doctors ordering all those tests just so that they are covered and can't be sued for negligence as they didn't do some unnecessary test.

    Old people used to die with dignity not any more. Far too much medical intervention in people's lives so much so I something think some doctors think of themselves as some sort of god not human. Asked an emergency doctor recently what he would do if an old person was brought in by ambulance with "Do Not Resuscitate" tattooed on their chest would he try and resuscitate them. His answer was an unqualified "Yes". That folks is not good medical care but unwanted medical intervention.

    If one gets cancer and decides that they don't want any medical treatment the medical system seems to drop everything and will do anything to convince this person otherwise.

    Far too many unnecessary medical tests done today. Most not for the patient's benefit but for the practician's own wallet.
    KSS
    16th Dec 2015
    9:59pm
    Problem is Bonny that the family of that patient with DNR on their chest would likely sue for negligence if the doctor did not act.

    I went to my friend's funeral last week. She was only 61 and yes had cancer among other things. She had decided months ago to forgo further treatment for it. That was her decision and she was at peace with it. She also had dialysis 3-4 times a week She was in hospital waiting for palliative care. Once she went into care her dialysis would have stopped.She would then have taken an estimated 4-5 weeks to finally die. I thank God she did not have to go through that lingering (and expensive) death. She died quickly in hospital still planning for future events.

    I agree with you that there are frequently too many tests done that are not even for true diagnostic reasons but more about a**e covering by the GP against being sued! By the way the GP does not get paid for ordering tests. They get the GP consultation fee that's all.
    Anonymous
    17th Dec 2015
    9:15am
    Good idea, Bonny. Let's stop all the tests that enable early detection and low-cost treatment of illness and let poor people wallow in sickness and misery and die young. Gee, this nation has progressed a long way since the dark ages!

    I agree that doctors often intervene too much. My mother just passed away painfully and slowly. She should have been allowed to die sooner and with less suffering. So let's reconsider euthanasia. But please let's NOT reduce early detection of curable conditions.

    (Though I suspect, from your other posts, you are among those selfish and elitist individuals who just want the poor old to die off quickly so pension costs reduce.)
    Mandy
    16th Dec 2015
    8:33pm
    We can hit back. We can get on to those poll ratings or start our own. Poor poll ratings have brought down the last three prime ministers. They can ignore the poll ratings at their own peril as Howard did. Popularity is very important for politicians, they don't go shaking hands and kissing babies for nothing. Another way is to target the most vulnerable which is usually the back benches in marginal seats. They will be very quick to get at the front benches when they realise their lucrative own jobs are at stake. This is a democratic country lets use our people power.
    LiveItUp
    16th Dec 2015
    8:44pm
    People power will only work if their is money left in the kitty. Our kitty is getting emptied a lot faster than it is filling at present.
    niemakawa
    16th Dec 2015
    8:50pm
    Um
    particolor
    17th Dec 2015
    2:21pm
    More Um :-)
    niemakawa
    16th Dec 2015
    8:55pm
    Wait until you hear what the cost to Australia will be as a result of The UN convention recently held in Paris. Not very good for all Australians, we will be monitored unlike ever before.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    9:29pm
    Worse than that read this one I found an hour ago:

    "The Turnbull government has hidden a huge tax loophole for big business in the fine print of its Innovation Statement.

    The prime minister talks a lot about supporting Australian startups and new businesses, but this decision could instead end up funnelling millions in tax breaks to some of the world’s biggest firms.

    The government has proposed changing the way that tax deductions apply to intangible assets (such as patents and intellectual property) which could be a huge windfall for big businesses."

    Here we have corruption at work AGAIN from the government. It is unlikely that this is a mistake and more likely that the same government which is refusing to collect the correct amount of tax from multinationals is also also setting up the next loophole for them.

    THIS GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO RESIGN IMMEDIATELY.
    niemakawa
    17th Dec 2015
    1:36am
    Mick, read up more about the UN conference in Paris. Mr Turnbull has signed up for the betrayal of this Country. Climate change is a euphemism for a far reaching dictatorship, beyond which you can imagine. Mr Abbott would not have done so, likewise the previous PM of Canada. Both were ousted at the behest of The UN. before this conference took place.
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    10:26am
    Are you serious niemakawa? Changing from coal to renewables and cleaning up the planet is a dictatorship?
    If you want a dictatorship then get Tony Abbott back and leave this government and its rich backers in power. That will be the result.
    I might also mention that this government was not elected by the people. It was elected through the long propaganda campaign from the Murdoch rags and the local big business owned media. And you talk about dictatorship. Come on.
    roy
    17th Dec 2015
    8:53pm
    mick is beginning to worry me, time to 'phone the Samaritans methinks. Why don't you go off to Europe for some skiing, life is too short to waste all your time o this site.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2015
    8:48am
    The comment you get when the facts and the truth are undeniable! At least you were able to be civil for once rather than the normal banal stuff you post.
    niemakawa
    16th Dec 2015
    9:19pm
    They should tax all charities and "churches" of all faiths.
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    2:58pm
    Agreed.
    niemakawa
    16th Dec 2015
    9:21pm
    Should have stuck with our Tony.
    MICK
    16th Dec 2015
    9:31pm
    That's what Tony thought. Trouble is he would have lost the election by a huge margin. Turnbull might be a better pollie but will only likely lose by a small margin. Same party. Same policies. Different leader. Same result!
    particolor
    17th Dec 2015
    3:04pm
    All Your gunna get from Either of those Party's now is Your Bum KICKED !! :-(
    Oldman Roo
    16th Dec 2015
    10:40pm
    Mick , you are spot on with your comments and no matter what excuses our usual Liberal lovers come up with , it does not mean one iota to a Government that is there for the rich and fool along the others attitude . They try to convince us by crying poverty like we are a third world country , yet giving billions in foreign aid to them , bringing in scores of dubious refugees that will be on the public purse for decades , when these huge amounts of money should be spend on their own citizens .
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    3:03pm
    Thanks for the kudos Oldman Roo.
    I do cop a bit from the right wing trolls. These posters simply seek to smear and cannot discuss the merits of what is under discussion as the behaviour of the current government has no defense. Ta.
    Libby
    16th Dec 2015
    11:04pm
    I think the rich should be targeted and we are told that they are paying high tax for those on Centrelink Benefits? I don't believe it. The politicians won't cut their own pay and all those perks they get which they don't deserve. Scott Morrison is the meanest politician ever, he was everywhere, Immigration, Social Services etc. and now Treasurer. Seems like he couldn't even do a good job in his previous roles! This government can't even look after their own backyards, get rid of them. I never voted for them, you can only go with the flow and see what happens. Who knows? It could change by the time the next budget arrives once they see and hear what we have to say about it all, HOPEFULLY!
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    3:04pm
    I have seen the superannuation perks for the wealthy labelled as 'rich man's welfare'. That is the nicest term one could come up with.
    Linda
    16th Dec 2015
    11:06pm
    In the last 30 years I have watched governments come and go, I have watched one do things, and the next one undo them, over and over. The changes all look the same only this time things have been more drastic.

    We all have special interests in budget matters, and collectively we have an interest in a healthy strong economy.

    It is expensive to change governments. We need to change this one.

    Dare I say it, the Green Party works very hard, they have a clear vision and a path planned to get there. I believe they have little or no special interests beyond ensuring a healty planet for the beings that live on it. They appear to be interested in a fair government, that is inclusive. In the past they were seen as a fringe group, however now, and in these times, they may hold the best chances for Australia. Again, they work hard, they do the research, take their role seriously and do not seem to play back room party tricks with organisations and money people. They also seem very sincere and honest.

    There is some good talent in the Labor camp, talent with experience.
    First job, break up the Murdoch empire, adequately fund the ABC, and get on with renewable energy, clean air and water, and secure affordable food supplies. Start ups are good, but so are new inventions and new industries that are about the future, not the past.

    Get the LNP out.

    By the way, I can't actually figure out who the owners and board of management is of this particular publication. Does anyone know who these people are, who the backers are, etc.?
    Oldman Roo
    17th Dec 2015
    12:38am
    Linda , I agree with most of your comments , but please do not try to sell us the Greens . They supported the short sighted and cruel cuts to part Pensioners and just recently , in another dubious decision , they again supported the Liberals with raising the threshold of company profits from 100 million to 200 million Dollars , ensuring Two Thirds of the companies will be able to keep how much Tax they pay a secret . Previously on the 100 million threshold , one in 5 companies were already not paying any tax .
    They should stick to their healthy planet or they may end up like the Democrats did .
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    3:55pm
    I also wonder Linda. Whilst comments are not censored as the big business owned outlets do (good) comments from obvious government funded trolls are also not controlled when these posters step over the line.
    I asked who funds this website but did not get a response. Still wondering.....
    Adrianus
    17th Dec 2015
    5:56pm
    Watch yourself mick. I am not afraid to report you.
    mareela
    17th Dec 2015
    12:20am
    Linda it was the greens that colluded with the current government to make changes to the aged pension and assets test to take effect 1/1/17. All they are interested in is gaining as many seats as possible but they will never govern in their own right. I wouldn't trust them as far as I could kick them
    Rae
    17th Dec 2015
    9:19am
    The changes take place on 1/1/2016 for 48000 defined benefit pensioners.

    The Greens have lately shown no interest in self funded retirees or the ill. Their policy of open borders for refugees would be a huge drain on the revenue base.

    I was going to vote for them before but not now.
    niemakawa
    17th Dec 2015
    12:25am
    There are no poor pensioners per se. They just want more to make up for their waste in the "working" years. So they want those that were careful and saved, who now get a pension and have some assets, to subsidise them in their old age. If that is not double dipping! You reap what you sow, to speak.
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    10:29am
    SIx of one, half a dozen of the other niemakawa. Not all have the qualities we have or can make it in life. I half agree with you but there is always the other half. Not all are bums.
    mareela
    17th Dec 2015
    12:28am
    John Plummer you seem to be fixated on a poster's wife. Do you have problems at home? Thought this site was about comments and debate about the debacle of this government's economic management. You seem to like more personal attacks which just shows your inability to contribute to the debate. Time to grow up I think.
    niemakawa
    17th Dec 2015
    12:33am
    Mareela the self appointed moderator?
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    4:00pm
    It is becoming clear that some of the posters on this site are not the real McCoy. It is wrong that they are not kicked off when they have no discussion and just push slogans and abuse. Some of these posters are paid stooges and need to go.
    particolor
    17th Dec 2015
    4:39pm
    What's the going Rate for a Stooge nowadays Mick ? :-) :-)
    MICK
    18th Dec 2015
    8:53am
    You'd have to ask 4 or 5 of the normal posters parti. I'd go further and suggest that some of these are the same person posting under several aliases.
    Peterrj
    19th Dec 2015
    12:42am
    Mick, 'Some of these posters are paid stooges and need to go.'

    For once we agree on something!!!!
    Midge
    17th Dec 2015
    1:31am
    Oh how I agree with tisme I have been saying for years, they should do away with all their lurks and perks, huge allowances, free cars, free air travel for them and their families etc. This country would be better off in no time.
    mareela
    17th Dec 2015
    1:37am
    Niemakawa you prove my point!
    niemakawa
    17th Dec 2015
    1:47am
    You have made no point. Let people have their say, you may or may not agree with the tone of their comments. If you look at one of your post you about john plummer. You accused him of making personal attacks, yet did exactly the same as part of your reply. You do not need to reply to them if they upset you . I will ask again are you a self appointed moderator?
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    4:05pm
    I have a pretty good civil discussion with you niemakawa despite the fact that we support different political ideals. That is healthy.
    What is unhealthy is posters like Frank, Sceptic, John Plummer, Pete, Solomon (probably all the same person) and a few others who only offer abusive slogans and insults and who cannot refute the fact that the Liberal side of politics is as dirty as Labor and that it is working for the rich, not the nation. Never a discussion on the FACTS. Can't have that can we.
    roy
    17th Dec 2015
    8:50pm
    Go to bed mick there's a good buy and pay some attention to your wife and not his silly site.
    Peterrj
    19th Dec 2015
    12:46am
    mick, there is never a discussion on the facts????

    Then who said, "Let them eat cake?"

    Can we start with an easy fact up front????
    Happy Jack
    17th Dec 2015
    9:14am
    GermsJerk's is at it a again- playing the man and not the ball. Do your research GermsJerk. This LIEberal party who are blaming the drop in the iron ore price for their monetary woes derided any impact the fourfold increase in the price of oil had on the economy when Gough was in Government. And keep in mind he ran four, yes four budget surpluses. What a 'legend'; GermJerk. Now this mob of deceives are hiding the fact that we have GAS TRAINS, three at Gladston not to mention those at Darwin, coming on line and will be become our biggest export earner. No mention of the Bickie's that will be pouring into the Govt coffers.
    No; GermsJerk, just lies and deceit from a conservative mob who are intent on lowering the living standards of pensioners and self funded rettirees, GermsJerk.
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    4:08pm
    That is what the big end of town wants: slaves who are paid zip.
    I found it amusing when Joe Hockey talked up the 'budget emergency' in Australia and then when in New Zealand stated that there was no emergency. Go figure.
    Anonymous
    17th Dec 2015
    5:23pm
    jackass good to see you back, still dreaming of ever becoming a member of the policeforce instead of being a parking officer?
    roy
    17th Dec 2015
    8:48pm
    Give up mick and go to bed for goodness sake.
    Adrianus
    17th Dec 2015
    9:41pm
    mick, PM me with your address and I'll come and get you out.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2015
    7:27am
    Is this what the Liberal Party think tank believes is comment? That sort of strategy is simply the moronic who have nothing to offer other than abuse.

    17th Dec 2015
    9:23am
    The latest worsening of the budget deficit, to be revealed by Treasurer Scott Morrison on Tuesday, could be plugged by abolishing a handful of what the Greens claim are "unfair tax breaks".
    Research by the independent Parliament Budget Office, conducted for the party, found the government would be $38 billion better off over four years if four entrenched tax lurks, including negative gearing, capital gains tax discounts and public subsidies for fossil fuels, were abolished.
    The PBO's projection was also based on a scenario where Australia's flat rate 15 per cent tax on superannuation contributions was replaced with a progressive system in which the top rate would be 30 per cent on contributions above $150,000 a year.
    The $38 billion that would be raised over four years by dispensing with tax breaks would almost exactly cover the latest blowout, to be announced by Mr Morrison on Tuesday.


    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/ending-four-tax-lurks-would-deliver-38-billion-budget-relief-for-scott-morrison-budget-office-finds-20151213-glme15.html#ixzz3uWcTQJ38
    Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook
    MICK
    17th Dec 2015
    4:11pm
    We are in one big con game Rainey. The current government and its big business owners are liars and charlatans. They tell us lies whilst they plot against average Australians.
    You are correct that our so called 'budget emergency' could be fixed with the waive of a pen but it is being played out as 'restoring the budget' when what is really happening is class warfare where huge amounts of money are being transferred from poor to rich. THAT IS THE GAME.
    roy
    17th Dec 2015
    8:47pm
    Time for bed mick and don't forget your Russian cabbage soup it will keep your labor brain active, not.
    particolor
    17th Dec 2015
    1:37pm
    My Friend just named His New Rottweiler .. Morrison ! :-) :-)
    Adrianus
    17th Dec 2015
    6:26pm
    Some 600 of the biggest firms operating in Australia, including Qantas and Glencore, paid no income tax in the 2013-14 financial year, data showed today as the government vowed to keep targeting loopholes.
    This is something that would never happen under Labor. They offered no help at all getting this through and even had the audacity to deride the Greens for jumping on board.
    Anonymous
    17th Dec 2015
    7:52pm
    frank, I can hear labor stooge micky's footsteps and his brainless followers, e.a jackass, marlala, jen who, old man cow, bibby, where is fast eddy, probably still in the cot, he must be on the afternoon shift so our labor troll micky can have his dinner, coming to get you, they will call you a liberal troll, right winger, etc, what ever, brainless people follow anybody who carries a red flag, old man cow think he is a bull, marlala told me he was a drill sergeant in her majesty's army, turns out he books people overstaying their parking meters, jen, upset because somebody winked at her, I agree that was an insult and so the sorry tale goes on and they still think that this absolute bullsh.t will bring victory to their so beloved labor party, well people unless you bring up some real issues, 14% will look like winning tattsloto
    Circum
    17th Dec 2015
    9:11pm
    Not sure what you mean Frank.Are you saying Qantas not paying tax in that period good or bad?
    Adrianus
    17th Dec 2015
    9:32pm
    The Keating government created a cloak of secrecy which allowed big businesses to hide details of the tax they pay and the donations they make to political parties.
    This Government has, with the help of the Greens, enacted legislation allowing the ATO to release this data. The first of this data being released today.
    Cleaning company Spotless Group, which has been accused of underpaying its staff working at department store Myer, made about $2.2 billion, but paid no tax.
    We will all know who the lifters and leaners are now.
    Adrianus
    17th Dec 2015
    9:37pm
    Circum, Qantas reported a $2.84 billion loss in this reporting year so paid no tax. That's not good for Qantas or the Budget.
    Circum
    17th Dec 2015
    10:00pm
    Qantas lost $2.84 billion so obviously paid no tax.You say this wouldnt happen under Labour.What wouldnt happen..Do you want them to pay tax or are you going to give them $2.84 billion.
    We are lucky Qantas is still flying given the actions some unions took to cripple our national icon.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2015
    7:33am
    As with everything you post Frank: a message from the Liberal Party to smear. Nothing more.
    If the current government wants to apportion blame then LET IT FIX the problem with legislation. Where is the legislation to stop companies avoiding the tax system? Apparently 25% of our top 1500 companies paid NO TAX again.
    Next issue: Turnbull's Innovation Plan. Please explain why Turnbull has hidden in this plan a method for large companies to gain huge tax outs by changing the way the ATO treats the write offs of intellectual property....something you and the government funded trolls on this website clearly lack.
    As I keep saying about this government....the stench of corruption is always with it. Never changes. Just the players and the policies.
    Adrianus
    18th Dec 2015
    2:28pm
    Circum, I don't know if you are circumventing or just plain venting?
    I said nothing of a sort.

    "You say this wouldnt happen under Labour.What wouldnt happen."
    The data release by the ATO!

    "Do you want them to pay tax or are you going to give them $2.84 billion."
    Of course we all want them to pay tax! You have been taking too much notice of mick if you think otherwise.
    Happy Jack
    17th Dec 2015
    9:42pm
    Sounds like GermJerks been on the turps again! For god sake, where were yuh when they handed out the puncuation marks? Not a coma, full stop or exclaimation mark through all the drivel. Not to mention the lack of capital letters. One can only condemn the system that let you down GermJerk. Jesus, old mate, you can not be blamed if you could not afford private schooling.






    ,,,
    Happy Jack
    17th Dec 2015
    10:09pm
    Get real, Frank. The LIEberals fought tooth and nail to prevet disclosure by these parasites on the pretext that someone may be kidnapped! What a joke. Look at their form and you wi?l find out where their allegences lie. Take the super debate, in spite of industry funds peforming far better than private funds, they qre moving in on them in support of their mates to the detriment of super members. Get on the money, pal. Unles you are a LIEberal stooge, you are being led up the garden path.
    MICK
    18th Dec 2015
    7:37am
    Happy Jack: it is my contention that posters Frank, heemskerk, sceptic, John Plummer and maybe a couple of others are PAID GOVERNMENT TROLLS whose job it is to massage opinion and put down anybody who disagrees or offers views other than the official government line. Not too different to Putin's paid trolls. An absolute disgrace that this sort of corruption is let happen in this country and that the media knowingly lets it go on.
    The stooges need short shrift and/or no response where possible.
    Jen
    18th Dec 2015
    2:36pm
    LNP politician's facebook pages are full of them Mick. At one point the insights on Tony Abbott's page were visible and the largest demographic of likers on his page were Indian aged 18 - 30. They were posting left right and centre, all hardline neoconservative rubbish with an Indian slant. Hilarious! Until you think about what it cost us taxpayers.
    Adrianus
    18th Dec 2015
    3:13pm
    Taxpayers spent $150m per year on Labor spin doctors, employed to sell Gillard's Labor policies. There were 1600 on staff employed by Federal Departments and agencies, media, communications, marketing and Public Affairs roles. A record of spin over substance which continues by the look of your posts.
    Happy Jack
    18th Dec 2015
    10:48am
    All I can say Mick is: Frankly, this debate is turning Sceptic; better call the Plummer and I'm even more concerned about GermsJerk69 as he's becoming more incoherent every day. Sure is a worry, what with his rantings and ravings reaching a crescendo leading up to Christmas. Only hope they can squeeze him in for a brain transplant over the summer break. Yep that's what he needs, along with a spell in re-hab to get him off the turps and back on the straight and narrow.
    Anonymous
    18th Dec 2015
    6:01pm
    happy jackass I can't help it you did not get in the police force or the army, they only take people with brains, next you tried to become a prison officer, same result. at least you got a job as a parking officer, even if those booked did not salute you.
    Peterrj
    19th Dec 2015
    12:50am
    There goes the level of debate on YLC!
    Peterrj
    19th Dec 2015
    1:03pm
    Did anyone else notice, or was it just me, that mick posted his 'Hot Of The Press/ THIS GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO RESIGN IMMEDIATELY' on 7 occasions under this topic???

    They were done at :

    9.09pm,
    9.09pm,
    9.12pm,
    9.14pm,
    9.16pm
    9.26pm and
    9.29pm?

    How did 'he' do it all so quickly??? And two were posted at the exact time of 9.09pm????

    It would be a miracle for,just one person to do all that sooo quickly? No?

    mick, you are a real wonder!!!!
    Anonymous
    19th Dec 2015
    6:04pm
    peterrj, why do you think we all take the micky out of him, this has been going on for months, all his comments are done by the labor party, all he has to do is push the send button. see other articles posts.
    Anonymous
    19th Dec 2015
    6:09pm
    just see labor micky's comments on the article
    q and a, he will break the record on posts and times posted.
    Bitte
    19th Dec 2015
    6:48pm
    Remember the French Revolution? The same conditions exist today.
    particolor
    20th Dec 2015
    12:47am
    I've just eaten my Cake ! :-)
    Happy Jack
    21st Dec 2015
    9:00am
    It's Christmas time Frank! so lets be candid when we talk about Govt advertising. Your little mate Johnny, leader of the LIEberal party spent one and half million a day for years telling us what a grand job his mob were doing. And whilst we are on about waste, what about the $62000000, yes you heard right Frank, sixty two million this mob of wsaters of our money spent on settling ONE refugee in Cambodia. Talk about being taken for a ride! The mafia in Cambodia did your mob over like a dinner.
    Glen48
    21st Dec 2015
    9:38am
    No it was 4 refugees and they cost 10M each...needs to be congrats.
    not many could spend 10M on getting 1 person to live in a 3rd world country.
    Happy Jack
    22nd Dec 2015
    9:15am
    All's quiet on the Western Front!! appears that GermsJerk69, Frantic frank, circumspect and plummage have all taken to the shelters and bunkered down for Christmas. Not a word out of them since the Pollies shut up shop and went on leave. If that's not an indication that their working out of LIEberal party offices than I believe in Santa. In the mean time; merry Christmas to all the constructive commentators, they being pensioners, seniors and self funded retirees who are staring at not so happy year ahead; with this mob breathing down their neck.


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