17th May 2016
Election 2016: Older Australians are dissatisfied with politics
Election 2016: Older Australians are dissatisfied with politics

A national poll has revealed that Australians over 65 are dissatisfied with the state of Australian politics, however, even though they distrust politicians, they still believe in the democratic process.

The Ipsos Poll, conducted by the Institute for Governance and Policy Analysis (IGPA) in conjunction with the Museum of Democracy at Old Parliament House, surveyed over 1200 Australians about their impression of Australian politics. Of the 1200 surveyed, 163 were aged 65 or older. Results of the study showed that older Australians thought the standard of honesty and integrity in our political system was not only low, but also decreasing.

When Australians aged 50 and over were asked to rate the standards of honesty and integrity of elected politicians, 29.3 per cent said they were very low, 40.4 per cent said they were somewhat low and 8.1 per cent said they were somewhat high. No older Australians gave a ‘very high’ rating. And almost half of all respondents aged 65 and over believe the Government runs the country with giving priority to interests of big business over those of the people.

But even though older Australians say they are distrustful of politicians, they are still more likely to be politically engaged.

The results also showed that older Australians are more sceptical of the standard of politics than younger generations. According to Professor of Governance and IGPA Director Mark Evans, this lack of trust boils down to how Aussies view the political decision-making process.

"The evidence suggests that they simply don't like the norms and values of contemporary politics," Professor Evans told SBS. "The politics are too adversarial, self-serving and disconnected from the needs and aspirations of everyday Australians."

Dr Max Halupka, also of the IGPA, believes the short story is that older Australians are confident in democracy, but not in the politicians involved in the system.

"You can feel really quite confident in a democratic process but disenfranchised with the way in which it's utilised," said Dr Halupka.

Paul Versteege from the Combined Pensioners and Superannuants Association claims that the reason for older Australians’ discontent with politics is that it’s all just more of the same.

"It is the feeling when you talk to older people generally, they've seen it all before," Mr Versteege said. "They've seen governments come and go, especially the last two governments have been changing leaders."

Read more at www.governanceinstitute.edu.au

Opinion: It’s little wonder we’re critical

It’s little wonder older Australians are distrustful of our political system. They’ve seen it all before: governments come and go with very little accomplished by the changing of the guard. And looking at the current leadership options on the table, there’s very little to sway a voter one way or another, other than life-long political allegiance.

I mean, it’s even becoming more difficult to spot any significant differences between the two major parties. Just look at Budget 2016/17 for example: the Coalition attacks Labor for proposed policies it says won’t work, then, weeks later, introduces these same policies as its own.

Ripping the rug from under superannuants certainly did nothing to boost the standing of politicians. And taking from those who can least afford it whilst ensuring that the wealthy are well looked after would seem a sure-fire way to pit older Australians against politicians.

The last two governments have had mid-term leadership changes. The current political climate is nothing short of a pantomime. Policy backflips, political infighting and mutiny, MPs leaving politics in disgrace or disgust, name-calling and recurrent scandals over the misuse of taxpayer money – it’s no surprise that Australians see our political system as a bit of a joke. Having a 24-hour media cycle highlighting this behaviour probably doesn’t help either.

I imagine that, as distrustful as we are of politicians, most of them, at some stage, got into the game to make a positive difference. Sadly, though, that optimism is, more often than not, crushed by the weight of the party line and political manoeuvring.

Malcolm Turnbull shows promise and is confident of re-election, but his need to pander to his conservative colleagues is doing his reputation as a fresh leader more harm than good. Bill Shorten sat in the background for a half term allowing Tony Abbott to shoot himself in the foot, which, at the time, may have turned out to be a politically savvy move, but now he has his work cut out for him, because he is up against a leader who, by all accounts, is more popular than his predecessor. In other words, Bill will need all his campaigning experience and political manoeuvring to pull off a win in Election 2016. He certainly put his best foot forward in his Budget 2016/17 rebuff, but can he be counted on to lead the country?

And what of our other options? Well, after its own leadership shake up last year, the Greens are see-sawing between alliances to the two majors, and the Independents are basically seen as a constant source of parliamentary instability.

One could still make an argument for voting Independent, but will that get us to where we need to be? We could justify it by saying it’s good to have outside viewpoints in the Senate to keep the two major parties honest, but when policies don’t make it through to legislation time after time, what is the point of giving a vote to an Independent?  It is worth mentioning though, that with solid leadership, more Independent MPs in the House of Representatives and the Senate could be good for keeping the majors in check.

Put simply, there is no clear choice for voters in Election 2016, so we can only hope that, in the next couple of months, we see some promising, progressive proposals that put people in front of big business and the wealthy. Or at least some sign of strength and solidarity that allows us to feel that our country is in good hands.

Until then, buckle up for the Election 2016 campaign roller-coaster, which will undoubtedly be packed with more of the same playground antics, fear-campaigning and political panto. Unless, of course, someone rises above the fray. One can only hope.

RELATED ARTICLES





    COMMENTS

    To make a comment, please register or login
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    10:49am
    When there is no clear choice the why change?
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    11:16am
    But there is a clear choice. What planet are you on?
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    11:36am
    The very clear answer to your right wing post Frank is that the current government is intent on one thing and one thing only: to give the wealthy ongoing tax cuts under the guise of stimulating the economy. The reality is that this is nothing more than a transfer of wealth from poor to rich. Tax cuts are never free!
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    11:52am
    Paulo it may help you if you read Leon's article. Particularly the opinion piece.
    " Put simply, there is no clear choice for voters in Election 2016,"
    roy
    17th May 2016
    2:05pm
    MICK, you have just cost me $50. I bet my wife that you would be the first to post today and you were only the 3rd, you must speed up MICK.
    I also bet her that you would post more than anybody else so my $50 should be safe.
    I also bet that you would use your favourite words troll, bigot, what drugs are you on and also you would accuse Frank of being right wing.
    Please don't let me down MICK.
    Misty
    17th May 2016
    2:13pm
    Frank did you mean to write "why change" instead of "the why change??, that doesn't make any sense.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    2:26pm
    Misty, he meant "then" not the, a simple typo, you are just trying to be clever.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    2:46pm
    Misty, it happens to others as well. You need to check spelling before enter. I often don't, too many distractions here.
    I typed "THEN WHY CHANGE?"

    stan, the cat is out of the bag. MICK and a couple of others usually get the heads up email on advice of a new article a good 30 minutes before other posters. Leon was obviously not at the last staff meeting.
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    3:50pm
    Frank
    YOU seem to be the one with the 'heads up' duh! (Leon.... staff meeting???!!!)

    Good one Frank.... when YOUR choice of political party:
    - has STUFFED up Australia's chance at the best NBN and has given us absolute rubbish to replace it;
    - has FED the wealthy;
    - is in the process of handing over our country and OUR wealth over to foreign corps;
    - have total disregard for the average Australian that has put more money in the coffers and built this country;
    - have taken away services and benefits from our own that need help or have worked and contributed all their lives, to put in the pockets of the wealthy;
    - not to mention that the economy is totally stuffed with interest rates reflecting the true amount of trouble Australia is now in; and
    - has increased our govt debt two fold but not delivered on mic at all let alone economic growth;
    - can't budget;
    - have no policies, except disjointed and badly or not at all thought out on liner Corporate Wish Lists as their policies;
    - all they have going for them besides TOTAL MISMANAGEMENT, is that the FOREIGNER mega corp BOSS, Rupert Murdoch, is willing to print ANYTHING to KEEP the foreign big boys political representative, in govt. for long enough to get through the things these parasites want for themselves, out of Australia.

    WHATEVER you do Frank.... don't compare them to the previous govt.
    and the fact that LABOR made Australia's ECONOMY, during the GFC, the BEST IN THE WORLD; gave us AAA credit rating (first time ever); had Aust. currency included in the international mix (first time ever); was one of the most egalitarian nations in the world; one of the LOWEST Govt. DEBT in the world; BEST NBN; and

    COULD STILL KEEP WITHIN THE BUDGET and PROVIDE SERVICES AND BENEFITS TO THE PEOPLE WHO PAID THE MOST IN TAXES!!!

    SO, you reckon that we leave YOUR lot in Govt, then Frank and that there is little difference in the two major parties.

    IN YOUR DREAMS FRANK..... your lot are derelicts with their snouts deeply embedded in the corporate provided pig trough.... leaving Australia in a disastrous state.

    With a new wave of GFC on the way... Aust. will be in dire straits... and certainly be damaged and a lot of people in big trouble with debts and loss of jobs.

    IF THE LIBS can't manage Australia and have stuffed up the economy in the GOOD TIMES what the hell can we expect from them when we need strong management to step up and handle what is coming!!!!!
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    4:47pm
    Really Frank. I notice YOU posted first...and not the first time for that either.
    I agree with Mussitate. If the current government manage to triple the deficit and removed the debt ceiling so that it could borrow on forever then there is a problem. And as I have said on many occasions follow the money trail to see who this government serves.
    Misty
    17th May 2016
    5:02pm
    I know what you mean about the spelling Frank I too do it all the time, I must be slow today I didn't think of the word then, sorry.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    5:07pm
    You have cost me $50 and I won't forgive you even when you become PM.
    OlderandWiser
    17th May 2016
    5:24pm
    Why change? Simple, Frank. Because we can't afford NOT to change. At least, the struggling majority can't. No doubt the millionaires are very happy with their $17000 a year bonus funded by struggling pensioners and low income families.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    5:47pm
    No $17000 a year for me and I can't understand how anyone else is getting $17000 a year out of this budget.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    5:49pm
    Rainey, in case you are unaware, these are the facts.

    If you earn $1,000,000pa are you better off under Labor or LNP?

    In labor’s last year of government.
    Financial year 2012/13.
    Tax; $423,547
    Medicare; $15,000
    Total tax; $438,547.

    LNP government.
    Financial year 2015/16.
    Tax; $423,547
    Medicare; $20,000
    Budget repair levy; $16,400
    Total Tax; $459,947

    Rainey the raising of the threshold from $80k to $87k is only worth $315. You should do your own math like I do in stead of blindly repeating what you hear from Labor.
    I know I would want Labor in government if I was earning $1m pa.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    5:53pm
    To save you getting out your calculator, that is $21,400 better off under Labor.
    This is just another blatant example of lies, whinging and lack of political will to take action!
    HarrysOpinion
    17th May 2016
    6:48pm
    Of course there is a clear choice Frank! It's clear that the Liberal government and the Greens don't deserve any consideration. So it's clear, not to vote for them.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    8:57pm
    Good call HS. And let's all remember that NO MATTER WHAT THIS GOVERNMENT PROMISES all bets are off after the election. I already am hearing this with the Backpacker Tax which Turnbull pulled today. He never said it is gone. Just that he will talk with "stakeholders". What that mean is after the election it's back on. Just like every other promise.
    Don't believe anything the current government says. It is absolutely not to be trusted no matter how convincing it is. A leopard never changes its spots. Nor will this bad bad LNP government.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    10:32pm
    Oh how you all forget 3 years is a long time in politics. I can remember the same being said of the Labor government back then.
    maxchugg
    18th May 2016
    9:44am
    Mick, do you think Malcolm might be making non-core promises?
    MICK
    18th May 2016
    9:54am
    Bronny: you jest! Labor kept us off the unemployment heap whilst putting money into new projects like the NBN....which your boss would never have permitted. Just that when Abbott was elected the bastards could not get out of funding the NBN, so they butchered it and we now are paying more than the original sound project cost. Turnbull!
    If I had to remember any bad bad governments then the current one is at the top of the list: lies coming like drops of rain, new taxes on average citizens at every turn and money sent to the rich + deficit tripled in 2 years of government.
    Yeah, let's have an honest conversation. Something which is not possible from the trolls who post on this website.
    Adrianus
    18th May 2016
    10:11am
    LOL MICK, you are really funny mate. Did you happen to notice Labor's projected unemployment rates in the forward estimates? Given the booby traps of Labor's spending commitments well into the future I think the Abbott government did very well to have us in this position.
    Labor are the wreckers!
    LNP are the Fixers!
    TREBOR
    18th May 2016
    12:30pm
    'fixers' is one word for it.....
    OlderandWiser
    19th May 2016
    3:10pm
    If that's true, Frank, heaven help us, because the LNP couldn't do a better job of wrecking if they rallied every criminal and corrupt dishonest person in the world to help them destroy the economy.

    NOTHING this LNP has done has the capacity to fix ANYTHING. It has tripled the deficit, left battlers much worse off, reduced demand and consumption, slashed the interest rate, increased unemployment, and destroyed hope and confidence.
    MICK
    19th May 2016
    9:02pm
    That is true Rainey. Frank, always the man with his foot in his LNP mouth has for once been truthful above. "LNP are fixers" - yeah, they fix the game to their own advantage.
    I am still waiting for the deficit which the LNO has triple to be fixed. I am still waiting for the NBN which Turnbull butchered to be fixed.
    I am still waiting for public money paid to private schools which is more than their public counterparts to be fixed.
    I am still waiting for the get out of tax clause for multinationals to be fixed.
    I am still waiting for Offshore Tax Havens to be fixed.
    I am still waiting for the promises (lies) made at the last election to be fixed.

    Funny how this government "fixes" things. The truth is that the only thing this government fixes is the system so that it can be re-elected. That one will not be happening.
    Jim
    17th May 2016
    10:56am
    What amazes me most about this article is that the authors seem to suggest that the current crop of politicians are any different to those of the past. It's always been the same, the liberals when in power stock the larder, then labor gets in and spends what's in the larder and a bit more besides and the circle continues. Looking around the world the system seems to work better than most other places.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    11:07am
    Dim, I think many of us share that view and it's possibly the reason we always seem to put the Coalition into the job when we're in trouble.
    On July 2 either the Coalition or ALP/Greens/Independents will form government. Often I wish we had a third choice? Perhaps it is wise to vote for a minor party that has policies one can relate to?
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    11:21am
    Very true Dim. Politics are no longer a left versus right contest. It's a conservative versus progressive battle. Until there is a greying of the divide there will be no reduction in the swing between starvation and glut politics. The only hope is that the independents and the smaller parties gain such influence that the major parties will be forced to change their stategies. Mick promotes that idea and I think he is right.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    11:42am
    Dim: I suspect that as we age some of us begin to realise that politics is a dishonest game of self interest and vested interests. I was not aware of this when I was younger as I was too focussed on making a future.
    The current batch however are one out of the mould and I cannot ever remember any government being as aggressive, dishonest and controlling as the current one. This lot frighten me as I love freedom, but after Abbott and his cronies tried to sell off the ABC so that it could be turned into another propaganda machine for coalition governments I recognised how serious the rich were to seize total control. All Australians need to worry about where this is going and vote accordingly as the ballot box is the way we protect ourselves from dictatorships.
    Old Man
    17th May 2016
    12:11pm
    MICK, where did you get the idea that our ABC was to be sold off? I think I'll become the troll you have accused me of being and ask for proof each and every time you make wild, unsupported, sweeping statements. When I have challenged you in the past I have provided proof of my rebuttal so in future I will ask that you provide supporting proof.
    probins01
    17th May 2016
    12:23pm
    Old Man, it is my clear recollection, just after the LNP came to power at the last election, that the Libs very seriously entertained the idea of privatising the ABC and SBS.
    Tony Abbott was very angry at his perception of how these broadcasters treated him pre-election.
    Old Man
    17th May 2016
    1:04pm
    OK probins01, I accept your clear recollection but seriously entertaining an idea is a world away from emotive comments like "tried to sell off". MICK's hyperbole is sometimes too much to let go without a challenge.
    probins01
    17th May 2016
    1:34pm
    Fair comment Old Man
    roy
    17th May 2016
    2:07pm
    MICK dear boy, if politics is such a dishonest game why would you love to be a poly and why does it appear to be your life consuming hobby forever posting on it?
    Misty
    17th May 2016
    2:20pm
    Frank I don't know about a Labor/ Green/Independent Gov I think it is more likely a LNP/Green Alliance but then if you believe all the BS that the LNP are trying to get voters to believe who could blame you but thank God most voters know garbage when they see it and can separate fact from fiction and wishful thinking.
    Paddles
    17th May 2016
    2:28pm
    Frank

    Google ALA (Australian LIberty Alliance) and read their manifesto. They may just be the candidates you are looking for!
    Old Man
    17th May 2016
    3:04pm
    @ probins01, found these links which are at odds with your "clear recollection" although to be fair, there was a push by some Liberals to privatise the ABC. It seems that Abbott was against privatisation, not in favour of.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/state-liberals-propose-privatising-abc-sbs-20130521-2jz5d.html

    http://www.news.com.au/national/we-have-no-plans-to-privatise-abc-or-sbs-says-tony-abbott/story-fncynjr2-1226648278367
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    4:11pm
    Paddles, Yes I have been following the progress of the ALA since last year. I was hoping they would get up and running. I think they will have a strong following. Everyone I know is talking about them. ALA (Australian Liberty Alliance) Have some very solid candidates and sound policies.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    4:44pm
    Old Man: Of course Tony Abbott wanted to sell the ABC off. He mentioned this on at least one occasion during the time the matter was in the news.
    Old Man
    17th May 2016
    4:51pm
    Your proof MICK? I'm sorry that I can't believe you unless you have proof. I have given you proof he was against privatising or sale, give me yours that refutes it please.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    5:09pm
    Labor, borrow borrow borrow, spend spend spend, it's always bee the same. The the LNP get and do unpopular moves and the Labor know nothings get in again, we need MICK to straighten to all out, c'mon MICK dear boy.
    OlderandWiser
    17th May 2016
    5:30pm
    Odd, Stan, that everyone accused Labor of borrowing and spending, but it was this LNP government that tripled the deficit and raised the debt ceiling.

    And the LNP is gifting huge amounts to millionaires while stripping pensioners and battling families of their lifestyle, and claiming we have to make sacrifices for the good of the nation. So why don't those who can best afford to make sacrifices have to do so? Why do these greedy, self-serving leaners get huge, huge handouts while the battling lifters struggle?

    Sorry, you are full of it! It HASN'T always been the same. There WAS a time when the LNP behaved responsibly and moderated their neoliberal policies to give the rich less than they are currently being handed and show respect for the majority. No longer!
    HarrysOpinion
    17th May 2016
    6:56pm
    A wise voter once said, " the Left wing and the Right wing belong to the same Cuckoo bird".
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    6:56pm
    LNP didn't have a choice as everything they did the fix the problems of Labor's legacy it was blocked in the Senate. Not only that Labor bought in time bombs that they weren't allowed to diffuse either.

    Best thing the LNP did was takeaway the pension from the millionaire pensioners. Only thing the could have done better was sort out the big inequity of the house not being in the assets test.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    9:01pm
    Frank and stan: run the casino elsewhere.
    Proof? Only in my memory as that one stuck. Abbott did want to sell off the ABC.
    You are pathetic stan. Labor spend, spend, spend???? Just for the mentally challenged please note that the deficit has TRIPLE under the current government and the nation is borrowing like never before. Not Labor. LIBERAL. Well you know that don't you.
    OlderandWiser
    18th May 2016
    11:33am
    Bonny, being such a NASTY person, you just can't help harping on the huge lie about taking pensions from millionaires, no matter how many times the TRUTH is presented that:

    (a) it WASN'T millionaires affected. The millionaires are doing okay. It's the battling savers who accumulated more than a few hundred thousand to last them through 30 years or so of retirement

    and (b) the STUPID IDIOTIC DESTRUCTIVE policy rewards spendthrifts, cheats, lazy no-hopers, manipulators, and fools. It punishes everyone who tried to save for retirement and it sends a VERY STRONG MESSAGE to the younger folk ''DO NOT SAVE FOR OLD AGE. THE GOVERNMENT WILL PUNISH YOU HARSHLY IF YOU DO. SPEND IT ALL OR PUT IT IN THE FAMILY SAFE AND CLAIM TO HAVE NOTHING.''

    Only someone NASTY and BRAINLESS could keep harping on this change being a ''good thing''. It was idiotic in the extreme, economically damaging in the extreme, cruel to those battlers hurt by it, and a massive breach of faith - evidence of MAJOR DISHONESTY by the government and proof we should KICK THEM OUT FAST.

    As to the other cruel and destructive changes they tried to make, thank heaven for a Senate that took some responsibility and blocked them. We desperately needed that help.

    And Labor's legacy wasn't nearly as bad as it's painted. It was the Howard/Costello legacy that got the nation into strife - their policy of giving obscenely to the richest 20%. But
    marls
    17th May 2016
    11:06am
    Maybe because politicians have the view that older people are a drain on the Country, never mind what they have contributed to Australia. I haven't seen any mention by any party regarding increasing the Age Pension pittance, despite the every-day rises in the cost of living.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    11:22am
    This campaign is nowhere near over. Pensions will come up, I'm sure.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    11:46am
    marls: politicians are also mainly older. I suspect they pick the easiest mark to go for. Also keep in mind that the current government may have well invented their attack on older Australians to divert attention from issues it wishes to bury: taxing multinationals, tax havens for the rich and taxing ALL Australians in a similar manner. These issues are poison to this government and focussing on something else may well be a way of taking out attention on the main game: sending more money to the already rich.
    Paddles
    17th May 2016
    2:34pm
    marls

    If you genuinely regard the level of the OAP as a "pittance", then I suggest that you review your lifestyle and spending choices.
    The pension is the sole source of income for myself and my wife. We live comfortably , run two cars and save money. Go figure!
    marls
    17th May 2016
    5:07pm
    Well, congratulations to you Paddles. Do not be judgemental about my lifestyle, as you know nothing about it, or the challenges I have. Some things in life are not as simple as you seem to think.
    Adrianus
    18th May 2016
    6:32am
    marls your post makes no sense. The OAP in Australia is the second highest in the world behind Caymans. Prices are not increasing they are decreasing. The OAP is reviewed for increase in March and September each year. The reason you haven't seen any talk about the increase is because it's old news that it will be increased for those who need it the most next January.
    OlderandWiser
    19th May 2016
    5:47pm
    Wrong Frank. You swallow all the LNP lies hook line and sinker, don't you? And you make no effort to verify the facts.

    NOBODY who is NEEDY is getting an increase in January. The base pension is NOT changing. Deeming thresholds are being increased a little to give those fortunate with healthy savings a little more.

    A number of fortunate pensioners who have a few hundred grand in the bank will get an increase. A lot of unfortunates - including some quite needy - will be stripped of thousands. And the NEEDY get NOTHING AT ALL. NO CHANGE.

    As to Paddles claim, that's an anecdotal and arrogant statement that pays no regard to the specific needs and circumstances of people who may have special needs through no fault of their own. I know a pensioner whose essential non-PBA medications cost $380 a month. How well would you handle that, Paddles? What if you were paying very high rent? What if you had high costs for specialist visits and disability aids? What if you had special dietary needs that imposed heavy costs?

    Chest-beating egotists who put others down without any knowledge of what they are on about are rude and offensive, Paddles. You owe Marls an apology.
    MICK
    19th May 2016
    9:05pm
    Rainey: don't be fooled. Frank and a number of other posters on the website are not individuals. The LNP is clearly in all out assault stage and worried that real posters on this website are not voting for it. Hence the current attacks.
    Watch the form and you'll understand who the protagonists are.
    Priscilla
    17th May 2016
    11:09am
    They make the Mafia look good!
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    11:23am
    Ha! Ha!
    probins01
    17th May 2016
    11:15am
    Yes we're dissatisfied!
    Why wouldn't any Australian feel dissatisfied, disenfranchised and ignored, having to suffer endless political platitudes and 3 word slogans!
    There is no democracy anymore!
    All we have is an endless rotation between tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber, both of which are ruled by corporate interests and the unions, closely followed by the dumbest, manipulated by socialist environmental extremists on the left!
    True democracy is the discussion of a wide range of ideas, to come to an agreed position of government by the people and for the people, not for special interests with deep pockets!
    I honestly believe that the PM's cynical move to try and exclude independents and minor parties from the Senate, has presented Australians with an ideal opportunity to change the status quo, if we have the courage to vote for real change!
    Could we end up with a hung parliament?
    Absolutely! But it is not as bad or unworkable as the major parties want us to think, in fact it's closer to true democracy than they want us to be!
    If we ended up with 20 or more independents and minor parties on the cross bench in the lower house, and significantly more than that in the Senate, we would actually be close to a proper democracy, rather than just having a choice between two bad policies!
    Here is how we can do it:
    Lower House - number all boxes on the paper, but place the LNP, Labor and Greens last, with your choice of independent or minor parties at the top. Don't follow any how to vote cards!
    In the Senate - EITHER number 1 to 6 boxes of your choice above the line, EXCLUDING the LNP, Labor and the Greens, OR number at least 1 to 12 boxes of your choice below the line, EXCLUDING the LNP, Labor and the Greens. Again, do NOT follow anyone's how to vote card. Make your own choices!
    We have the opportunity for a unique and peaceful democratic revolution folks, let's make it happen!
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    11:26am
    Hear! Hear! Though I don't thin you should include the Greens, unless you now consider them a major party. They are at least forcing needed changes on several fronts, particularly in rattling the major parties' cages.
    Jim
    17th May 2016
    11:33am
    Great idea, but can't work, you end up with the minor parties or independents actually running the country, so you have a small section of the elected members making the decisions for the majority of voters, not sure how that is closer to true democracy. I have often voted independent in the past where there has been a worthwhile candidate, unfortunately in most cases it has been a wasted vote even when they have been elected, the major parties freeze them out.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    11:46am
    Hold the phone! Ricky Muir come back! We now want you for the top job and you can choose Jackie Lambie as your deputy with Glen Lazarus as treasurer. Yep I can see that working if I squint hard. lol
    probins01
    17th May 2016
    11:56am
    Paulodapotter, I include the Greens because they consider themselves to be a major party.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    12:00pm
    Dim: you totally miss the point with minor parties and Independents. Ask yourself why the current government has not been able to get some of its divisive and bad bad legislation through the parliament. The answer is that Independents realised how bad and unfair it was and rejected it. This is the proper job of the senate and one which would have been compromised if the government had had its way. That is why changes have been made to the Act....to try and force Independents out.
    The issue is not that we have too many Independents. The issue is that we do not have enough. To restore proper government we need MPs who are not puppets for vested interests. That pretty well equates to Independents and minor parties.
    probins01
    17th May 2016
    12:01pm
    Dim, the likely scenario is something like this:
    There are 150 members in the House of Reps.
    To govern, a party needs a majority...obviously.
    If we can reduce the LNP and Labor to less than 35 to 40 seats each, and fill the cross bench with independents and minor parties, it would force whichever major party has a slight majority, to negotiate every piece of legislation with cross bench members who are not bound by party loyalty to vote one way or the other.
    Legislation would have to stand or fall on its merits, rather than party lines!
    It can and would work Frank, despite your cynicism.
    probins01
    17th May 2016
    12:05pm
    Also, there are 76 Senate seats, which is why it's easier to vote the major parties down in the house of review, forcing it to act as it's supposed to, rather than the rubber stamp desired by the major parties.
    The public has long recognised this, almost consistently electing those who are opposite to the House of Reps majority.
    Old Man
    17th May 2016
    12:06pm
    MICK; two words - Windsor, Oakeshott.
    probins01
    17th May 2016
    12:20pm
    Old Man, Windsor and Oakeshott had the gonads to set aside their political paradigms and act in the way they saw to be best for Australia.
    That angered only the party machines and those gullible enough to believe their claptrap.
    We need more people of principal in politics, who are willing to declare an honest hand before election, and continue with that honest hand post-election, without fear, favour or 'party lines'.
    Sundays
    17th May 2016
    12:39pm
    Paulodapott I can never vote for the Greens because the reduction to the Pension Asset threshold from 1 January 2017 would never have been passed without their support. This demonstrates their lack of regard for pensioners or naïveté regarding how things work. Or perhaps they just do deals with the major parties to get their way on some issues, but at whose expense?
    fearlessfly
    17th May 2016
    12:41pm
    Good point about those Independents Mick, you hit the nail on the head there !
    Jim
    17th May 2016
    12:45pm
    Mick I haven't missed the point at all, I agree that if we had enough independents elected that they could certainly influence the other parties, but those independents do not represent the views of the rest of the voting public, eg if we had 30% independents, 30% of one party and 40% of the other party it be almost impossible to run government, we need a clear direction from one major party both in the lower and upper houses so that which ever party is in power will have a clear mandate from the majority of voters to follow the direction that they have promoted during their election campaigns.
    If they fail to honour their promises vote them out at the next election. It has happened too often in the past when a group holds the balance of power they blackmail the sitting government to give them what their own self interest group are after at the expense of more deserving groups.
    probins01
    17th May 2016
    1:38pm
    Dim, I don't agree with your view, for the simple reason that it's up to you and me who we vote for.
    By selecting independents and/or minor parties who most reflect our views, we can have a truly representative voice in politics, not just someone who says privately, "I agree with you", but publicly has to toe the party line, regardless of whether or not he/she agrees with it.
    Cory Bernardi is a good case in point.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    1:51pm
    probins01, it wouldn't work in my opinion. We have a hung parliament experience to fall back on. The Independents will not work with the government now because they want the government to grovel, just like the Gillard government did. They want to be wined and dined and bribed with sweeteners for their electorate. It will add chaos and more waste. Tony Windsor had his ego boosted when Gillard gave him $1m to hold his own tax summit. Did we hear anything from that talk fest? Did we expect to? No it was a bribe. Meanwhile the Wilkie bribe did not eventuate. If you want these politicians spending their time bribing each other, wheeling and dealing, who then will manage the economy?
    ray from Bondi
    17th May 2016
    2:35pm
    here here
    probins01
    17th May 2016
    3:05pm
    Frank, maybe I am somewhat of an idealist, but I do believe it can work.
    For a start, you're talking about 2 independents holding the balance of power, whereas I'm promoting electing many independents and minor parties, who will then have to work together, with their competing priorities and policies, or yes, there could be chaos.
    I see it as a gloriously dangerous, but exciting opportunity to return to the roots of a democratic society.
    Old Man
    17th May 2016
    4:18pm
    @ probins01, it is assumed that members elected to Parliaments will carry out the wishes and needs of the electorate. Both Windsor and Oakeshott, although elected as Independents, did not represent their electorates when they chose to support Gillard. 8% of New England voters supported Labor whilst 26% of Lyne voters supported Labor.

    There has been much said and written about their decision and the past history of each that led to that decision but the fact remains that neither was acting in the wishes of their respective electorates and neither stood for re-election.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    4:55pm
    Probins01: you are indeed correct about Independents. I do tire of the dishonesty and trolling from Frank and a couple of others who keep using people like Oakshott and Windsor as supposed examples of why Independents are a bad choice (they aren't!) whilst never putting up the real corruption argument for coalition governments. Where does Frank think coalition governments get their election funding. And what does Frank think is expected in exchange when coalition governments are elected? It ain't free...as we saw with the repeals of the Carbon Tax (which the rest of the world now wants), the repeal of the Mining Tax (which now see large amounts of AUstralians money head out of the country or to tax havens so that no taxes are even collected) and changes to the legislation left by Labor to control banks?
    Old Man and Frank....you guys are what you are. Trolls? Clearly yes. Why? Because all you systematically do is trot out rubbish whilst refusing to discuss the current government's lies, deceit and where it is sending public money. To the rich.
    Old Man
    17th May 2016
    6:02pm
    MICK, I object to your accusation of trotting out rubbish. I challenge your thought bubbles when they are clearly wrong and supply proof and facts to support my challenges. When you are wrong, two things will happen as sure as night follows day; you refuse to apologise and follow this by making personal rude remarks.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    8:13pm
    MICK its not just Windsor and Oakeshott. There are numerous other examples of Independents not being what they say they are. How about You MICK? Your allegiance was with Labor when you were an Independent wasn't it?
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    9:09pm
    Old Man: you are starting to post the normal Frank/stan/Bronny BS. That is my point. By all means ask for facts but respond to mine with same. You never do!
    Re: Oakshott and Windsor. I understand that Windsor pursued a number of issues which the major parties wanted no part of. Gambling addiction. Alcohol abuse where young men were killing each other in front of the clubs and pubs which tanked them up. Etc.
    Instead of your normal demands for "proof" maybe YOU should research your statements better so that your posts do not become troll comments...designed to denigrate one side of politics without debating the facts which are pertinent to your attacks.
    Rude? Who me? Only to those who abuse their responsibilities on websites and intentionally seek to mislead readers. I'll call them like I see them. Be civil and be honest and fair and you'll get no stick form me.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    10:01pm
    MICK, why are you afraid to answer the question? How about You MICK? Your allegiance was with Labor when you were an Independent wasn't it??
    MICK
    18th May 2016
    9:49am
    Actually no Frank. It was not. I have also told you many times before that I have not voted Labor for many decades.......unlike you who always voted Liberal. So what is the definition of a rusted on Liberal Party hack?
    nicestman77
    17th May 2016
    11:21am
    WHEN ARE PENSIONERS going to wake up and understand, WE have the power to shape legislation all WE need is the will power to do so--
    PLEASE SEND THIS BACK AROUND TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS
    POLITICIANS PLEASE PAY ATTENTION !
    FORWARDING THIS TO EVERYBODY.
    ‘Entitlement’ my arse, I paid good money for my Pension and other benefits. Just because they borrowed that money, doesn't make my benefits some kind of charity or hand-out. Gold plated MP pensions and Civil Service Government benefits, aka free healthcare, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, 20 weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days, now that's welfare, and they have the nerve to call me a 'greedy pensioner' and my retirement, an ‘entitlement’... Scroll down .........
    What the HELL is wrong with us? WAKE UP Australia ! Someone please tell me what the HELL is wrong with all the people that run this country?
    We're "broke" & can't help our own Pensioners, Veterans, Orphans, Homeless etc., but spent 1.2 billion $$$'s for G-20 events!
    In the last few months we have provided aid to India, Greece and Turkey . And now Afghanistan , Pakistan ..... Home of Bin Laden. Literally, BILLIONS of Dollars Our retirees living on a 'fixed income', receive no aid nor do they get any breaks while our government and religious organisations pour Hundreds of Billions of $$$$'s and tons of food to foreign countries.
    They call Old Age Security and Healthcare an entitlement even though most of us have been paying for it all our working lives, and now when it’s time for us to collect, the government is running out of money. Why did the government borrow from it in the first place?
    We have hundreds of adoptable children who are shoved aside to make room for the adoption of foreign orphans.
    AUSTRALIA: a country where we have homeless without shelter, children going to bed hungry, hospitals being closed, average income families who can't afford dental care, elderly going without 'needed' meds and having to travel hundreds of miles for medical care with no reimbursement of cost, vehicles we can't afford fuel for, lack of affordable housing, and mentally ill without treatment - etc., etc.
    YET... YET..
    They have a 'benefit' for the people of foreign countries...ships and planes lining up with food, water, tents, clothes, bedding, doctors, and medical supplies.
    Imagine if the *GOVERNMENT* gave 'US' the same support they give to other countries.
    Sad isn't it?
    99% of people won't have the guts to forward this.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    11:28am
    I'm afraid 99% of people don't agree with all you've said though some of it rings true. Now one will forward your comments on because they don't reflect their thinking on every issue.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    11:37am
    There's nothing wrong with the people running this country. It's we who are the problem. Most Aussies don't even know who the Prime Minister is. They are totally ignorant of the issues and are very disengaged. Even during the illegal Vietnam War when only a percentage of young fellas were conscripted, the government changed on good swing, but not commensurate with the immorality of our govenment's involvement. Iraq is another example. If Aussies started dying in that conflict, there would have been more scrutiny by the public, but most would hardly be aware of the shocking destruction of that country and huge loss of life and living. We're the problem, Nicestman77 and until we have an education system that addresses these issues, it will remain so.
    BJ
    17th May 2016
    11:56am
    I agree with everything you said Nicestman77 we should stand up and be counted don't let these lazy / greedy politicians walk all over us
    Oldie84
    17th May 2016
    11:56am
    Well nicestman, it is also a country with roads full of grey nomads and retirees going on endless cruises.
    Politics is the Art of the possible. We will never get our household and spending in order because every time a suggestion is made Special Interest Groups start bleating. That's the way it is and will never change.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    12:01pm
    Correct. All vote the same way and they are dead!
    Old Man
    17th May 2016
    12:03pm
    @ nicestman77, your taxes in the past have no bearing on future payments for welfare. Those past taxes went to pay for pensions to those who paved the way for today's workers just as tomorrow's workers will pay taxes to support those of us who will enjoy retirement.

    Your words seem to suggest that we have a majority of homeless people, (didn't Rudd fix our homeless problem? he said he would.) hungry children, a lack of hospitals, people with no teeth, no cities, just people living way out in the bush, no housing and mentally ill everywhere. Yes, there are some of the above but they are a minority. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be looked after because they should. You're quick to condemn but I notice you haven't put forward any suggestion as to how to fix your perceived problems.

    As to supporting other nations, these funds are allowed for in budgets and have been ongoing for decades. Part of the reason is to garner support with trade policies which return the investment many times over. Do you really believe that when people are dying because of natural disasters that we as a country should just stand back and watch when we are in a position to assist. I
    probins01
    17th May 2016
    12:09pm
    Very simple nicestman 77, the government relies on 2 things.
    1: As George Bernard Shaw said, "2% of people think; 3% think they think, and 95% of people would rather die than truly think about anything."
    2: A very few large corporations control the media throughout Australia and the world. Governments rely on being able to both court the mainstream media successfully, and exclude any voices which would present democratic opinions such as yours.
    We need to 'un-rig' the corrupt game.
    See my post above.
    TREBOR
    17th May 2016
    12:14pm
    Thank you, Old Man, for reminding us that it is now our turn to be paid adequate pension by the Generation Whyners.....

    Absolute jailer's pets, they are .. ooooh... what I'd give for just one annual trip overseas.... just one month of tripping the light fantastic... lucky bastards.... I've been hanging here for fifty years now.... good for the back that is.... and all I ever get is the occasional spit in the face.... wonderful race the politicians.... just wonderful ...

    (apologies to the Life of Brian).....
    margie
    17th May 2016
    12:14pm
    Well I agree with Nicestman 77, can't see anything he has said that is not correct. I will be forwarding it. Pity the Government has money, OUR money for everything and everybody except us. I do think the Independents need to be voted in as that is the only way these greedy, self serving, snouts in the trough politicians will get the message that they work for us. Yes we may have some problems, but we have problems now and if the usual suspects keep getting voted in without any backlash from us, they will never change and we will continue to have governments that continue to look after themselves at our expense and in fact they will become progressively worse as they are doing now.
    Phil1943
    17th May 2016
    12:34pm
    While I can't agree with everything you've said Nicestman 77, I do share your anger at the way in which our politicians treat the electorate with contempt. It's all about power - the power they'll 'sell their arses for', and everything they do is targeted at winning the next election.
    The financial promises (bribes, perhaps?) are now coming out thick and fast from all sides. "Vote for me and I'll give you this". Most of these promises are never kept anyway, but it's amazing to me just how seriously they're reported and talked about. All part of the game to buy votes and stay in or get into power.
    Australia could be a great country, albeit a small one in terms of population. We have the potential to have an excellent system of public education, a world-class system of healthcare, and even to ensure that every Aussie has a good standard of living. Instead we seem to be more like rats in a cage, fighting over who gets the biggest chunk of cheese, building nothing and just going around in circles. it's tragic.
    And then on top of it all we take decisive steps to mortgage the country's future and commit ourselves to paying billions of dollars every year from now until date TBA by ordering a fleet of 12 submarines that are as important to us as rollerskates are to a snake. All for show and "mine's bigger than yours".
    So Nicestman 77, maintain the rage and let's continue doing what we can to change our little world. Write letters, talk to people and vote in such a way that strengthens our democracy. It also never hurts to see which parties will do the best for seniors and consider voting their way. We may not be around all that much longer but we'll do what we can to improve things before we go.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    2:09pm
    MICK, how perceptive of you dear boy.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    4:56pm
    The trolls are alive and well on this website.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th May 2016
    7:06pm
    Waleed Aly is running this country, haven't you noticed Paulodapotter?

    He makes more speeches on The Project, on how this country should be run, then the Prime Minister does and he got a Gold Logie for it.
    don
    17th May 2016
    11:29am
    It looks like there maybe bigger parties at the next election. The grey power and the ALA , so we may have choices to maybe get a new third or fourth party.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    11:38am
    The more the merrier, Don.
    LUVCO2
    17th May 2016
    11:53am
    AND WITH GOOD REASON DO PEOPLE NOT TRUST POLITICIANS!

    From the US, here's what an honest politician sounds like. DITTO FOR AUSTRALIA!

    FROM THE US, AT LAST AN HONEST POLITICIAN - SCREW THE NEXT GENERATION!
    Congressman X is the nom de plume of an anonymous Democratic congressman who’s just written a scandalous new tell-all book.
    And it packs enough dynamite to bring down the walls of Jericho!
    Titled The Confessions of Congressman X, it’s a “devastating inside look at the dark side of Congress as revealed by one of its own,” as the book’s publisher styles it.
    Here you have confirmation of everything you’ve ever suspected about politicians — their .50-caliber dishonesty... their bottomless corruption... their finger-in-the-wind convictions. You name it.

    Here are a few choice snippets. And we hope you’ve digested your breakfast:

    "Most of my colleagues are dishonest career politicians who revel in the power and special-interest money that's lavished upon them."

    "My main job is to keep my job, to get reelected. It takes precedence over everything."

    "Fundraising is so time-consuming I seldom read any bills I vote on. Like many of my colleagues, I don't know how the legislation will be implemented, or what it'll cost."

    “My staff gives me a last-minute briefing before I go to the floor and tells me whether to vote yea or nay. How bad is that?”

    “I sometimes vote ‘yes’ on a motion and ‘no’ on an amendment so I can claim I'm on either side of an issue.”

    “It's the old shell game: If you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em.”

    Bravo, bravo. At last, an honest fraud!

    But it’s more you want? Here Congressman X trains his guns right on the American people. Brace yourself:

    “Voters claim they want substance and detailed position papers, but what they really crave are cutesy cat videos, celebrity gossip, top 10 lists, reality TV shows, tabloid tripe and the next f***ing Twitter message.”

    "Voters are incredibly ignorant and know little about our form of government and how it works."

    "It's far easier than you think to manipulate a nation of naive, self-absorbed sheep who crave instant gratification."

    Don’t hold back, Congressman X. Tell us what you really think. But here he really takes an ax to the root of the tree. And doesn’t it just say it all?
    "We spend money we don't have and blithely mortgage the future with a wink and a nod. Screw the next generation."

    Screw the next generation…
    Daily Reckoning newsletter 14 May 2016
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    12:01pm
    Nice anecdotes, but the book like the bible is just a book. It's all entertainment folks. The truth always lies between the lines. It's simply very difficult, if not impossible, to find.
    probins01
    17th May 2016
    12:13pm
    The Congressman is telling the truth.
    Most of the public just want bread and circuses.
    It worked in ancient Rome and Greece.
    It still works today. Just look at the prominence of televised sport, 'realty' shows etc. Bread and circuses to keep the masses distracted from what the government is really doing.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    1:02pm
    True enough that decaying powers rely on bread and circus to mollify the masses. History repeats itself, but the reality is much more complex and good people try to resist the trend sometimes with success and sometimes with absolute failure. Translating the US situation to Australia is a bit loose historically. We are hardly a major power and unlikely to become on in the next couple of hundred years. The complete breakdown of political will has not reached here yet though there are always microcosmic examples. We still have a long way to go - we haven't even had a civil war yet.
    dweezy2176
    17th May 2016
    12:00pm
    I'm more concerned about that sleaze-bag "Rama" Baird upping the NSW transport concession than the Feds going after the OAP .. simply because whether it's "Oor Wullz" or "Mal-odious" they'll wait until AFTER the vote to go after OAPs so we are always going to be vulnerable .. as long as the "gravy train" keeps rollin' we don't matter!
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    12:05pm
    Excuse my ignorance, but what is the OAP? Is that like the IPA, LNP, NBN, ALP, AGL, DNS?
    TREBOR
    17th May 2016
    12:21pm
    It's a front for GOLF - the Golden Oldies Liberation Front.... just kidding....

    Yes - after the election all promises are off the table... nothing to see here people... nothing new.....
    Charlie
    17th May 2016
    12:02pm
    For the first time in my long life there is nobody I actually want to vote for.

    Labor Party, too far to the left with gays and refugees.

    Liberal Party, no vision for the future, will say anything against, alternative energy, home insulation and global warming, provided that it undermines the labor party. Doesn't matter if they mislead thousands of people.

    Greens, Forgotten about the environment. Becoming a platform for anyone with radical ideas.

    Independent, So stroppy and unprofessional that people might think twice about voting for them again
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    12:06pm
    Is there anybody you like, Charlie?
    LUVCO2
    17th May 2016
    12:11pm
    Too bad for you and your gullibility on the global warming scam, most Aussies aren’t buying that claptrap!

    It’s a non issue.

    Despite endless hype & lies, most Aussies sceptical of climate change SCAM pic.twitter.com/iizh834uje

    global warming SCAM DROPPED FROM POLL DUE TO LACK OF INTEREST! pic.twitter.com/uXABhfxAQx

    UN GLOBAL POLL: global warming scam DEAD LAST! Only the gullible fooled. pic.twitter.com/hGHq48oWNG

    global warming about DEAD LAST in Europe as well! pic.twitter.com/FHhjyfxz8S

    Ch9 Poll:69% Australians reject global warming DESPITE UNRELENTING WARMIST PROPAGANDA http://joannenova.com.au/2014/11/nine-poll-shows-69-of-australians-dont-believe-in-man-made-global-warming/

    An INCONVENIENT News Radio Poll pic.twitter.com/cKHaa2blQR

    A wonder climate change scam is even on the list let alone at the bottom! pic.twitter.com/e4YyRUHqAg
    probins01
    17th May 2016
    12:16pm
    LUVCO2, by your logic, we should continue to pollute anything and everything, regardless of the negative impact? I hope I'm wrong.
    I choose to look at both climate change science and non-climate change science.
    There is no clear cut conclusion.
    The jury is definitely still out.
    Julian
    17th May 2016
    12:30pm
    There's a new party known as the ALA. Their main objectives are to restore rapidly eroding Australian values, end this Halal certification scam and stop the greens' intended assimilation of 50000 or so refugees...per year!

    Worth considering.
    LUVCO2
    17th May 2016
    1:00pm
    Hey probins01
    FYI Trace gas, plant food CO2 is NOT POLLUTION!

    18 million square kilometers more greenery due to “carbon pollution” that the Greens hate
    Obviously we need a $10 billion dollar program to stop this immediately!

    Humans are Greening planet Earth — ABC
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-26/global-snapshot-shows-how-humans-are-greening-the-earth/7346382
    http://joannenova.com.au/2016/04/18-million-square-kilometers-more-greenery-due-to-carbon-pollution-that-the-greens-hate/
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    1:01pm
    Yes Julian, they have other good policies as well as some solid candidates.
    LUVCO2
    17th May 2016
    1:04pm
    Hey Julian.
    Hear hear!!

    THIS IS FRIGHTENING!!
    The Greens will drop their objection to tough controls on people coming illegally on boats if Labor flies in tens of thousands of “refugees” legally by plane:




    Greens leader Richard Di Natale has opened the door to amending the party’s refugee policy so it can strike a deal with Labor, but on condition the humanitarian ­intake rises to as much as 50,000 a year…


    At the weekend, Senator Di Natale said he would refuse a deal to make Bill Shorten prime minister unless Labor took a more ­humane approach to asylum-seekers, with the Greens always advocating strongly for onshore processing.

    But yesterday he did not rule out supporting offshore processing in a Labor-Greens government if the yearly humanitarian intake were increased. “That’s something that we will come to if and when there is a close result and the need of negotiations post-election,” he said in Melbourne.

    Note the trouble that many Muslim Lebanese, Sudanese and Somali refugees have had settling in peacefully.
    Note how few refugees find work after five years.
    Now add 50,000 more refugees every single year!!!!
    NO MORE AGE PENSION DUE TO ROCKETING WELFARE FOR "REFUGEES"?
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    1:32pm
    LUVCO2, I think you are right about welfare being under threat when the planes start coming in they will bring more than the boats could.

    When Labor lost control of our borders Chris Bowen was asked why we don't increase our humanitarian intake to 20,000?
    Bowen's curt reply was "because we can't afford it."
    That was 20,000 when we had a lot less debt.

    We are already cramped in West Sydney and Melbourne.
    Labor couldn't manage a chook raffle at the pub. What hope have they got managing the Greens???!!!
    probins01
    17th May 2016
    1:43pm
    LUVCO2, Did I miss something?
    Where in my statement did I mention CO2??
    I mentioned pollution. If that equates to CO2 in your mind, how is it you then tell me CO2 is not pollution?
    Please read what I actually wrote.
    Pollution per se is not CO2.
    Pollution consists of carbon monoxide and other fossil fuel based pollutants. At least that's how I read the science.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    5:00pm
    Vote Independent Charlie. What that does is shake up the game, make the bastards hungry and restore real government where no one side can wipe its feet on the majority of the population.
    Despite the government doing everything it can to shake out Independents people are moving in this direction. Finally think about some of the bad bad legislation which would have gotten through were it not for the Independents in the senate. Frightening. And the trolls try and scare voters into doing exactly what they should not.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th May 2016
    7:59pm
    LUVCO2 "but on condition the humanitarian ­intake rises to as much as 50,000 a year…" Yeah, that is a sore point. 50,000 refugees per year is a compounding cost of welfare to the tax payer of $1 billion dollars year one, $2 billion year two, $3 billion year three etc,etc. The Greens are simple cuckoos. Bowen was right, we can't afford 20,000 let alone 50,000. The International Humanitarian Agreement needs to be rewritten or torn up into shreds. Look how it's affected Europe, how it's has affected UK how it's affecting Australia. Currently we have 150 members of the Apex gang (Afro and Somali) running amok on our streets robbing people, raping, intimidating, home invading, car jacking and finally, now, man slaughtering. The character of people like this including the advocates of the Greens are not compatible with the majority of the Australian people's values on peaceful multicultural coexistence.
    Take for one example the Greens leader who has advocated the decriminalisation of drug addicts, drug dealers and prohibitive drugs. Take another example of a Greens party member in NSW introducing a Bill for the disbandment of drug sniffer dog random searches that produce a positive result of 1 in 4. These Greens politicians are not on the side of decent Australian people, they are on side of indecent people in Australia.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    8:21pm
    He may have been right about it being unaffordable but he let in 50,000 by boat and another 150,000 came by plane. He couldn't even catch Captian Emad who was working as a trolley boy in Canberra under their noses. I think we were getting lied to all the way.
    TREBOR
    18th May 2016
    12:39pm
    Come on, frank - how many times must I do this?

    "Although those who come to Australia by boat seeking Australia’s protection are classified by Australian law to be ‘unlawful non-citizens’, they have a right to seek asylum under international law and not be penalised for their mode of entry.
    Although the numbers fluctuate, usually only a small proportion of asylum applicants in Australia arrive by boat—most arrive by air with a valid visa and then go on to pursue asylum claims. While the number of boat arrivals has risen substantially in recent years, it is worth noting that even in high arrival years they still comprise just over half of onshore asylum seekers in Australia and a greater proportion of those arriving by boat are recognised as refugees. In 2014, arrival numbers fell again and there was only one boat arrival in Australia. As a result, the majority of asylum applicants arrived by air.
    There is no orderly queue for asylum seekers to join. Only a very small proportion of asylum seekers are registered with the UNHCR and only about one per cent of those recognised by the UNHCR as refugees who meet the resettlement criteria are subsequently resettled to another country. "

    From the horse's mouth - Parliament....

    http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp1415/AsylumFacts

    A little reading of the facts wouldn't hurt a few here.
    TREBOR
    17th May 2016
    12:05pm
    I think the current Australian political landscape is composed of parties that have been too long in control of the issue(s), and are hidebound by ideologies on all sides, and all are totally out of touch with the real people here today... and tomorrow. On top of that, for far too long the major parties have been controlled by special interest groups (SIGs), to the detriment of the ordinary person.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    12:08pm
    Pity we had Sadam Hussain killed. Would you like him back to run Australia, Trebor? Just joking ... I think the rise and rise of the small parties and independents is the only chance for political change for the better.
    TREBOR
    17th May 2016
    12:18pm
    Yes, I'm with you - according to some Sad Sam knew how to run a country.. if the Opposition or Indepedents play up and don't vote for the legislation... to the wall... some say the demise of his regime lead to the de-stabilisation of the ME... well the 'greater' de-stabilisation of the ME .....
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    1:12pm
    He was so popular at the elections? He always got 96% of the votes. Very sad isn't it? When Kevin Rudd finished his tenure Bill Shorten, in his address to the true believers (60% of whom voted for Albo), said of the ALP, "We have run out of messiahs" "There are no more messiahs."
    roy
    17th May 2016
    2:28pm
    ALP voters have short memories and attention spans.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    4:18pm
    Selective amnesia stan. It's often caused by a psychological trauma.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    5:03pm
    You are correct TREBOR. The trolls above are trying to work the room but a waste of time. Those who know what the medicine needs to be will vote accordingly...and it won't be for the current low life liars who bring the nation into disrepute and cause other countries to take us a laughing stock.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th May 2016
    8:03pm
    "I think the rise and rise of the small parties and independents is the only chance for political change for the better", Paulodapotter.

    I think there is some merit in what you stated. Question is which is the better new minor party to support?
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    9:13pm
    On the money HS. The answer to your question is any candidate which does not pass its preference to the current government or to another candidate who intends preferencing the current government.
    Minor parties and/or Independents are the way to end the perverse game we all endure.
    Rosscoe
    17th May 2016
    12:20pm
    "Put simply, there is no clear choice for voters in Election 2016, so we can only hope that, in the next couple of months, we see some promising, progressive proposals that put people in front of big business and the wealthy. Or at least some sign of strength and solidarity that allows us to feel that our country is in good hands."

    ?????? We've seen Abbott and Turnbull in action. That's enough for me. And now we see the laughable attempt by the Greens to pretend they care about workers on penalty rates. Funny??? I've never seen any of them at protest rallies I've been on to look after workers' interests. This current mob we've got in government could not care less about seniors!
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    1:10pm
    Yes Rosscoe, it's not left versus right. It's conservatism versus progressivism (if there's such an 'ism') I believe Malcolm is a progressive in a conservative straightjacket. Hence, it's likely the LNP won't rule in it's own right even though Malcolm remains the most popular choice as PM. However, again you mistake the motivation behind the Greens. They are not ruled by party machinery and their stature has increased as a legitimate party despite the historical ridicule they endure. They are progressive no matter how much we much we paint them as extremists.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    5:05pm
    There is. Vote Independent and strip both of the major parties of a monopoly. Not rocket science.
    Mike
    17th May 2016
    12:22pm
    It is estimated many retirees and seniors who are unhappy with the 3 major parties will vote informal. Hockey called disabled rorters, whilst he himself rorted the parliamentary travel allowance at several multiples of $288 a night to pay for his Canberra holiday house, which he later boasted that he obtained through lying and cheating. He also , with the help of the very left wing Greens, smashed the retirement plans of hundreds of thousands of retirees, people who worked and saved under current legislation. The wealthy wernt affected, it was an attack on the hard working middle class. Labour had a chance of reversing some of these changes, but bumbling, inept, Shorten has turned his back on the working class. It is tempting to vote informal, but it will be a wasted vote. There is an alternative. The Nick Xenophone team. Give them a go and vote the lying, cheating, rorting, snout in trough Liberals out
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    1:13pm
    I didn't realise you belonged to the wealthy elite Mike. I thought you would like to see the greed subdued somewhat. What do you think should have been done to curb the tax concessions of the wealthy which are being paid for by the middle to low incomers?
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    5:07pm
    An informal vote is a wasted vote. Send the bastards a message by voting Independent. ANYBODY is better than returning the current bunch of big business owned puppets to office. I might have thought this was fairly clear.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th May 2016
    8:08pm
    Xenophon is a tempting alternative, Mike. Unfortunately he doesn't have enough candidates around all the Australian electorates in particular, the regional areas. But, worth a thought.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    9:16pm
    It's about weakening the current government so it is neutralised. Either in the lower house or the senate. Preferably both. That would be nice as proper government should then return. That's what we all want. Not a bunch of misfits owned/controlled by the wealthy and the companies they are employed in.
    fearlessfly
    17th May 2016
    12:26pm
    Absolutely cannot comment here, I would get sued for certain !
    fearlessfly
    17th May 2016
    12:38pm
    No, really, the above article says it all, covers all my feelings about the whole sick farcical process.
    Rosret
    17th May 2016
    12:28pm
    The root of the problem is the private super funds. Back when the government decided it was time the private financial managers took control of super funds those who were in the government schemes thought, "I am OK, my scheme is really good." ...and it is. Those who had to start in the new schemes faced an unknown future (without a choice) and a hope that all would be well in the long run. But no. Fees and fluctuating interest gains only made putting extra into super beneficial because of the tax incentives. A very false premise for investment. Unfortunately most of the population are not speculators and don't have the ability "to go it alone" on the stock market. The wise invested in real estate. When a financial adviser came to our workplace and explained that we needed $800K in super at retirement with the idea that the individual would go on the pension at 80 yrs of age. How much does everyone else earn? My entire salary every year would barely have got there. ...and 80? My family live till there mid 90s - the pension is poverty. Now it appears its money the government feel they are entitled to control. So they accept no responsibility for the hedge fund rip offs and all the control how we use our money. Trust noway. But just as aside - how are the young adults doing? Their massive mortgages must really be impacting on super savings.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th May 2016
    8:13pm
    The root of the problem, Rosret, is that there are too many politicians who once were Solicitors and still think in terms of "$400 in blocks of 6 minutes".
    thommo
    17th May 2016
    12:34pm
    Yes, us retirees certainly don't trust politics or politicians, especially the current mob in government.
    What should be published to the general public is the mean and tricky way this current government tries to implement it's far right-wing agenda.
    One thing they've done is change the pension assets test in the 2015 budget after promising at the 2013 election that there would be no such changes. This is just one of the many broken promise (there are heaps more) which have left retirees out on a limb, especially those who will lose their part age pension on and from 1.1.17.
    The govt was so mean it didn't even include a "grandfather" clause for those who retired up to end of 2014 under the rules current at that time. They made irreversible decisions to retire and they're retirement plans are now in ruins.
    The govt is too scared to go after the big end of town or the rich and wealthy (with their superannuation tax concessions and unpaid company taxes), so instead they attack the welfare recipients and age pensioners, the vulnerable in our society.
    Our pensioners deserve as a matter of right, a descent and respectable retirement.
    And because it's an election year, this govt is very coy about any new taxes or revenue measures, as they don't want to upset anyone, especially their own support base, but one thing they're sure to do is increase taxes on cigarettes, even although Abbott says it is a 'workers' tax. It just depends on what suits the purpose.
    They're a gutless and unfair mob, and that fact should be pointed out to the general public.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    1:16pm
    We don't trust them because we have placed ourselves at their disposal. However, we can still vote.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    5:10pm
    Yes Paulodapotter.....and both sides fear being deserted for Independents and both sides want to rid the parliament of Independents. They'll try and tell you how bad Independents are but a look at what the senate has blocked in the past 2 years tells you a different story.
    I'll be voting Xenophon. Not a more honest man in the parliament from what I have seen....and not owned by vested interests like the current government.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th May 2016
    8:45pm
    Under Labor government pensioners eventually gained a bi-annual pension increase of $12 per fortnight, this was equivalent to 12 loafs of home-brand bread.
    Under the Liberals pensioners received a bi-annual pension increase of $6 per fortnight immediately once the Liberals lied themselves into power, this is equivalent to 6 loafs of home -brand bread loafs per fortnight.
    The Liberals have intentionally sought out to destroy the lives of pensioners.
    This the Liberal Party gratitude that while we were a working class under Hawke, Keating and John Howard we contributed from out hard earned income, taxes that supported the lives of the pensioners before us, yes, even the ones who were home owners. Now that is our turn to use this essential benefit, we are shafted, demonised and made to feel like lepers because some of us are cash poor home owners, because some of our homes have risen in market value by the frenzy of auctions due to the foreign buyers win at any cost to be successful buyers. Frenzy of some foreigners from the Middle East and Asia who can obtain home loans without interest charges.
    Some younger people argue that during our working life our average annual income ratio to the purchase price of a home was lower. But, that may have been so, however we paid a much higher annual mortgage interest charge, that reached 17% pa level than the low interest of today that is around 4%pa.
    So from what side of ancestry are these inter generational complaints against age pensioner home owners coming from? This never existed during our working life. We had more respect for the age pensioner home owner or not a home owner during our working life.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    9:18pm
    HS: the current government set out to destroy EVERYTHING that Labor accomplished. That is vandalism on a national scale and should be rewarded with jail time, not a golden parachute. There is something (not much) to be said about a benevolent dictatorship.
    carmencita
    17th May 2016
    12:35pm
    Politicians office is no longer a position of trust. They're there for themselves not for the people. Arguments we're hearing ar simply to get themselves remain in office until retiring with millions in benifits.
    Wannabreak
    17th May 2016
    12:38pm
    If politicians were to take a poligraph test they would ALL FAIL.
    Old Man
    17th May 2016
    4:28pm
    Gotta disagree Wannabreak, you can pass a lie detector test if you keep repeating the lie over and over. The mind then believes the lie to be the truth.
    Misty
    17th May 2016
    5:09pm
    Are you speaking from experience Old Man?.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    5:11pm
    Good one Wannabreak. I wish we could get a lie detector test on some of our posters. That would be interesting. At least we'd find out who is paying some to post here.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    5:15pm
    What are you talking about MICK dear boy and please answer my sensible question as to why you do not stand as a candidate for parliament.
    You are a fount of all knowledge and we need you.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th May 2016
    8:58pm
    Wannabreak
    If politician were to take a sociopath tests, they ALL would fail them also.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    9:19pm
    stan dear boy...get a life and get a full time job at party HQ.
    OlderandWiser
    19th May 2016
    3:12pm
    Mick, do you think maybe Frank and Stan are getting a little frustrated at their inability to fulfil their bosses' expectations that they will stifle exposure of truth on this site? They have my sympathy, but it was always an impossible task to justify the unjustifiable. Surely any intelligent person should have seen that and not taken it on?
    MICK
    19th May 2016
    9:10pm
    Spot on Rainey. The big guns are coming out. The government is worried...as it needs to be. The electorate may have short memories but Abbott and Turnbull can kick them in the head and steal their money only so often. Retribution is coming? Soon.
    Adrianus
    19th May 2016
    9:25pm
    The AFP is obviously suspicious of the Labor Party.
    Scrivener
    17th May 2016
    12:38pm
    All the current crop understand is the IPA agenda and it is utterly and completely exploitative and American and all that means. Now Big Mouth is testing the waters on an "Abbott-Turnbull government". Why do Australians keep shooting themselves in the foot by electing these highwaymen and women?
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    1:20pm
    Hear, hear Scrivener. But didn't they scream when the the mob they advise suggested curbing the greed. I can't see that lasting whoever wins. You know the answer to the your last question though, don't you? We all know the answer to that. Short memories and ignorance, one of the main reasons conservatives do not want to see an educated public. Education makes people want to be progressive and we can't have that.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    1:38pm
    So why then does the left like uneducated leaders?
    Scrivener
    17th May 2016
    2:34pm
    Frank, that is an interesting observation. Compare the last half dozen or so PMs academic qualifications side-by-side, there's not a hell of a lot of difference. But that, honestly, is another premise for another argument.
    I was listening to a Vox-Pop broadcast this last weekend where the interviewer was showing glossy Karsh-like portraits of each of the leaders, Turnbull, Shorten and Di-Natale. Almost all the people he spoke to did not recognise ANY of them. They are faceless perps for each party's apparatchiks who run things behind the scenes.
    They call themselves 'leaders', my goodness what gall they have. None of them are a real leader's shoelace.
    That's my point - the Libs want to enact the IPA agenda; Labor has a tainted history and a manipulative front man; and the Greens look like a bunch goody-two-shoes chameleons floundering around in an acid bath. None are fit to lead Australia. None are qualified, except by self proclamation.
    Qualifications yes, it's an issue but fitness for office is way more important.
    Scrivener
    17th May 2016
    2:44pm
    This is the IPA agenda which the Libs use as the basis for all their doctrinal work, such as policy development. Look it up on the internet.

    1 Repeal the carbon tax, and don’t replace it. It will be one thing to remove the burden of the carbon tax from the Australian economy. But if it is just replaced by another costly scheme, most of the benefits will be undone.

    2 Abolish the Department of Climate Change

    3 Abolish the Clean Energy Fund

    4 Repeal Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act

    5 Abandon Australia’s bid for a seat on the United Nations Security Council

    6 Repeal the renewable energy target

    7 Return income taxing powers to the states

    8 Abolish the Commonwealth Grants Commission

    9 Abolish the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission

    10 Withdraw from the Kyoto Protocol

    11 Introduce fee competition to Australian universities

    12 Repeal the National Curriculum

    13 Introduce competing private secondary school curriculums

    14 Abolish the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA)

    15 Eliminate laws that require radio and television broadcasters to be ‘balanced’

    16 Abolish television spectrum licensing and devolve spectrum management to the common law

    17 End local content requirements for Australian television stations

    18 Eliminate family tax benefits

    19 Abandon the paid parental leave scheme

    20 Means-test Medicare

    21 End all corporate welfare and subsidies by closing the Department of Industry, Innovation, Science, Research and Tertiary Education

    22 Introduce voluntary voting

    23 End mandatory disclosures on political donations

    24 End media blackout in final days of election campaigns

    25 End public funding to political parties

    26 Remove anti-dumping laws

    27 Eliminate media ownership restrictions

    28 Abolish the Foreign Investment Review Board

    29 Eliminate the National Preventative Health Agency

    30 Cease subsidising the car industry

    31 Formalise a one-in, one-out approach to regulatory reduction

    32 Rule out federal funding for 2018 Commonwealth Games

    33 Deregulate the parallel importation of books

    34 End preferences for Industry Super Funds in workplace relations laws

    35 Legislate a cap on government spending and tax as a percentage of GDP

    36 Legislate a balanced budget amendment which strictly limits the size of budget deficits and the period the federal government can be in deficit

    37 Force government agencies to put all of their spending online in a searchable database

    38 Repeal plain packaging for cigarettes and rule it out for all other products, including alcohol and fast food

    39 Reintroduce voluntary student unionism at universities

    40 Introduce a voucher scheme for secondary schools

    41 Repeal the alcopops tax

    42 Introduce a special economic zone in the north of Australia including: a) Lower personal income tax for residents b) Significantly expanded 457 Visa programs for workers c) Encourage the construction of dams

    43 Repeal the mining tax

    44 Devolve environmental approvals for major projects to the states

    45 Introduce a single rate of income tax with a generous tax-free threshold

    46 Cut company tax to an internationally competitive rate of 25 per cent

    47 Cease funding the Australia Network

    48 Privatise Australia Post

    49 Privatise Medibank

    50 Break up the ABC and put out to tender each individual function

    51 Privatise SBS

    52 Reduce the size of the public service from current levels of more than 260,000 to at least the 2001 low of 212,784

    53 Repeal the Fair Work Act

    54 Allow individuals and employers to negotiate directly terms of employment that suit them

    55 Encourage independent contracting by overturning new regulations designed to punish contractors

    56 Abolish the Baby Bonus

    57 Abolish the First Home Owners’ Grant

    58 Allow the Northern Territory to become a state

    59 Halve the size of the Coalition front bench from 32 to 16

    60 Remove all remaining tariff and non-tariff barriers to international trade

    61 Slash top public servant salaries to much lower international standards, like in the United States

    62 End all public subsidies to sport and the arts

    63 Privatise the Australian Institute of Sport

    64 End all hidden protectionist measures, such as preferences for local manufacturers in government tendering

    65 Abolish the Office for Film and Literature Classification

    66 Rule out any government-supported or mandated internet censorship

    67 Means test tertiary student loans

    68 Allow people to opt out of superannuation in exchange for promising to forgo any government income support in retirement

    69 Immediately halt construction of the National Broadband Network and privatise any sections that have already been built

    70 End all government funded Nanny State advertising

    71 Reject proposals for compulsory food and alcohol labelling

    72 Privatise the CSIRO

    73 Defund Harmony Day

    74 Close the Office for Youth

    75 Privatise the Snowy-Hydro Scheme

    The above list was published in August 2012. More recently, the same three IPA authors added the following 25 items to the list:

    Following on from our 75 ideas in the last edition, John Roskam, James Paterson and Chris Berg offer 25 more ideas to reshape Australia.

    76 Have State Premiers appoint High Court justices

    77 Allow ministers to be appointed from outside parliament

    78 Extend the GST to cover all goods and services but return all extra revenue to taxpayers through cutting other taxes

    79 Abolish the federal department of health and return health policy to the states

    80 Abolish the federal department of education and return education policy to the states

    81 Repeal any new mandatory data retention laws

    82 Abolish the Australian Human Rights Commission

    83 Have trade unions regulated like public companies, with ASIC responsible for their oversight

    84 End all public funding to unions and employer associations

    85 Repeal laws which protect unions from competition, such as the ‘conveniently belong’ rules in the Fair Work Act

    86 Extend unrestricted work visas currently granted to New Zealand citizens to citizens of the United States

    87 Negotiate and sign free trade agreements with Australia’s largest trading partners, including China, India, Japan and South Korea

    88 Restore fundamental legal rights to all existing commonwealth legislation such as the right to silence and the presumption of innocence

    89 Adhere to section 51(xxxi) of the Constitution by not taking or diminishing anyone’s property without proper compensation

    90 Repeal legislative restrictions on the use of nuclear power

    91 Allow full competition on all foreign air routes

    92 Abolish the Medicare levy surcharge

    93 Abolish the luxury car tax

    94 Halve the number of days parliament sits to reduce the amount of legislation passed

    95 Abolish Tourism Australia and cease subsidising the tourism industry

    96 Make all government payments to external parties publicly available including the terms and conditions of those payments

    97 Abandon plans to restrict foreign investment in Australia’s agricultural industry

    98 Cease the practice of setting up government-funded lobby groups, such as YouMeUnity, which uses taxpayer funds to campaign to change the Australian Constitution

    99 Rule out the introduction of mandatory pre-commitment for electronic gaming machines

    100 Abolish the four pillars policy which prevents Australia’s major banks from merging

    ==============

    The IPA held its 70th anniversary dinner in Melbourne on Thursday, 4 April, 2013. The guests included Rupert Murdoch, the Leader of the federal Liberal National Parliamentary Party, Tony Abbott, members of the LNP front bench, the Catholic Archbishop of Sydney, Cardinal George Pell, and mining magnate and media investor Gina Rinehart. The MC was Andrew Bolt.

    In his address to the dinner, Abbott referred to several of the original 75 points that will be implemented if the Liberal party wins government. Some have been implemented by the LNP State Government of Queensland. You can read the full text of Abbott’s address on the Independent Australia website or watch it on YouTube:
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    4:07pm
    Scarey stuff Scrivener and even more scarier is the lack of attention the IPA agenda gets in the mainstream media. Those that support this agenda should be watched more closely than our would-be terrorists. Australia is becoming so dysfunctional that more Kiwis are returning to NZ than are coming and even our own home grown terrorists are trying to escape by boat for a better life in Syria.
    Scrivener
    17th May 2016
    5:05pm
    "Even our own home grown terrorists are trying to escape by boat for a better life in Syria" Absolutely bloomin' priceless. I love it. Thanks for that gem Paulodapotter.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    5:13pm
    Why indeed Scrivenor.
    I notice our resident trolls did not have an answer to your very long list. They never have an answer to my posts either other than accusations about being a "leftie", which I am not. They are desperate.
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    5:20pm
    Scrivener

    Bloody Brilliant, thank you. I have copied your list, hope you don't mind.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    6:18pm
    Yes they are trying to escape because they know Turnbull will stay on as PM with Abbott in the cabinet.
    MICK
    18th May 2016
    9:46am
    It must be getting lonely Frank. Nobody listening so change the subject as much as you like.
    Suzette
    17th May 2016
    12:46pm
    This country needs new blood !! The very outdated unsustainable Capitalist society that we have followed blindly behind Americans does not work!! The USA is in a decaying stage but still Australia keeps on following their lead ... ridiculous and so damaging to this country!!
    Their is no party worth voting for in this country. We need huge changes !! Whilst politicians are more interested in their pensions than making the very much needed "complete overhaul" to our financial and societal system .. the song will remain the same!! So as with America ... so will Australia come to it's demise.. and unfortunately like rats on a sinking ship ... unless we can create some sort of revolutionary change ... we ill go down with this sinking ship !!!
    LUVCO2
    17th May 2016
    1:08pm
    Oh how ignorant Suzette.

    Socialism = Trickle Up Poverty!

    Scratch a socialist, you’ll find a totalitarian almost every time.

    The ONLY starvation the world has known in recent decades has been at the hands of socialist totalitarians!

    The socialist Left’s solution to what they call “inequality” is to make everyone poorer rather than make everyone richer. The govt takes, spends, grows, &wastes. This is called “progressivism”.

    HOW TRUE! Churchill On Socialism pic.twitter.com/AjuCMHm1Cg

    Capitalism has its faults but the alternatives [shudder] just don't bear thinking about!
    LUVCO2
    17th May 2016
    1:16pm
    A “Progressive” socialist Spokesman Explains Their Strategy pic.twitter.com/OvK3w46GDg

    Wealth doesn't come from spending & consumption, It comes from capital expenditures.

    Have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you've earned, but not "greed" wanting to take someone else's money as socialists want to do!

    To understand Leftist socialists, one must understand their insatiable desire for control & power. Then you'll wake up.

    Adherents of Marx at some level must like the mass killings. Perhaps they make them feel powerful.

    you’d have to be a pretty lacking in moral sensitivity to defend a thinker whose work sent millions of people to an early grave.

    65 million murdered in China, 20 million in the USSR, 2million in Nth Korea, 1.7 million in Africa.

    The Left trying to rehabilitate Karl Marx.
    Let’s remind them of millions who died in his name.
    http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/178595/

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100244023/the-left-is-trying-to-rehabilitate-karl-marx-lets-remind-them-of-the-millions-who-died-in-his-name/
    LUVCO2
    17th May 2016
    1:20pm
    Hey suzette your [shudder] version of utopia!!!

    Venezuela: Labour's socialist utopia is a violent, poverty-stricken failed experiment

    WITH five-hour queues for the most basic of goods, rampant violent crime and inflation sky high, it makes for an unlikely utopia.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/631011/Venezuela-socialist-utopia-Hugo-Chavez-Jeremy-Corbyn-Ken-Livingstone-failed-experiment
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    1:26pm
    You've hit the nail on the head Suzette. What you're talking about is not Socialism, What you propose is democracy where the big end of town does not rule the roost. Only the greedy think otherwise. There's a vast difference between social consciousness and Socialism. Socialism is when governments own the companies rather than owned privately. Ignorance is displayed very openly by your critics.
    LUVCO2
    17th May 2016
    1:36pm
    Hey Paulodapotter
    I'm sure there is heaps of "social consciousness" in Venezuela!!

    The people a very conscious of their utopia!

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/631011/Venezuela-socialist-utopia-Hugo-Chavez-Jeremy-Corbyn-Ken-Livingstone-failed-experiment
    probins01
    17th May 2016
    1:47pm
    LUVCO2, I'm not sure what drugs you're on, but can I have some?
    I can't see where Suzette mentioned socialism at all.
    In criticising the current US model of capitalism, which is more akin to corporatism, she doesn't once delve into socialism, she merely says, "We need new blood and a complete revolution", which, if you refer to my original post above, is exactly what I'm referring to also.
    probins01
    17th May 2016
    1:51pm
    LUVCO2, can I ask if you believe in the notion of 'trickle down economics'?
    LUVCO2
    17th May 2016
    2:04pm
    Hey probins01
    Do you have any examples of this non-socialist " "new blood and a complete revolution" which you and suzette advocate?

    Come on, there must be one somewhere ... maybe cloud cuckoo land, the soviet union ... ?
    LUVCO2
    17th May 2016
    2:10pm
    Hey probins01
    Post WW2 Australia is an excellent example of "trickle down economics"' where individual wealth and life span soared as the economy grew rapidly.

    "Trickle up poverty"?
    Venezuela, Nth Korea, the Soviet Union, East Gremany ... etc

    Which country would you have liked to live in?

    That explains why socialist (or socially conscious) countries need fences to keep people IN while capitalist countries need fences to keep people OUT!
    Scrivener
    17th May 2016
    3:06pm
    Luvco2 - I am looking for some correlation between what Suzette actually said and what you assert she said. Ready, Fire, Aim rather defeats any examination of either.
    You have gone blindly from Suzette's call for new political blood and a reasonable exhortation not to follow America down the rat hole of poverty caused by the greed of the super rich - who were not school-teachers or nurses or cops; to an extreme claim that her proposition is totalitarian and partly responsible for millions of deaths at the hands of insane dictators. That is dialectic reach on a majestic scale.
    You say, "Socialism = Trickle Up Poverty! And, Scratch a socialist, you’ll find a totalitarian almost every time." These are presumptive claims that are not relevant to Suzette's line of thinking, and you use them to destroy Suzette rather than examine her argument. Seems you have just responded to a couple hot button words and missed her point altogether. If you are going to attack Suzette at least read what she actually said. I don't think she is ignorant at all as you are saying - assertions of ignorance against someone are often a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Browbeating someone by calling them ignorant is trying to manipulate them and others into your way of seeing the world. Manipulation = bullying.
    probins01
    17th May 2016
    3:59pm
    LUVCO2, post WW2 Australia had nothing to do with trickle down economics until the Keating era.
    Prior to that it was the growing strength of the middle class who drove the economy.
    When any society has a strong and cash-fluid middle class with low debt, those middle class people spend money, which drives consumption and growth.
    Since Keating's globalist push began and has been pushed by governments of all flavours since, the focus has been on reducing the strength of the middle class through reduced incomes, 'productivity gains', and offshoring of manufacturing (which has been happening for longer than Keating), resulting in ever-increasing personal debt levels and economic pressure on families.
    This has also resulted in the top level of income earners receiving higher incomes, and corporate entities making higher profits.
    Very little of this 'trickles down', because it is all kept as profit and invested in assets, or distributed to shareholders, very few of which are your 'mum and dad' investors. They are mostly institutional investors.
    Equally, as you correctly referenced in Venezuela, unchecked socialism doesn't work.
    As I said to you above, scroll up the page and find my original post. Your other rather snide assertions are addressed there.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    5:19pm
    Suzette: what needs to happen is the restoration of real government. The first step is to outlaw ALL donations and payments from vested interests like big business, including to family, private companies or after political life jobs. The we start again and draft a charter to require politicians to act in the PUBLIC INTEREST.
    Watch all but Independents resist any attempts to clean up the game. That's why we live with corruption at the very top. The sam in every western (so called) democracy.
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    5:31pm
    Suzette

    Good comment.... don't take any notice of the ULTRA NEO CON right winger LUVCO2.... poor thing hasn't realised that just because someone doesn't support THEIR tired old political DOGMA.... ie. USA style CORPORATE Capitalism (called Corporatocracy - see wikipedia) that they most certainly do NOT support other problematic political dogma at the other end of the scale!!!

    I don't think you will ever convince LUVCO2... he loves CO2 for goodness sake... how backward can you get.

    I apologise for viciousness and rudeness that are evident in LUVCO2's comment to you.... just shows you where she/he/it is coming from.... say no more, aye.
    OlderandWiser
    17th May 2016
    5:36pm
    LUVCO2, if socialism is taking money from those who earned it to give to those who didn't, this LNP is socialist - EXTREMELY SOCIALIST. That is the essence of their policy. Take from workers to give to bludging politicians, fat-cat overpaid CEOs (who will next year be paid a king's ransom to leave the company they ground into the dirt), inept overpaid senior bureaucrats, and companies that send their massive profits off-shore and use every device available to dodge their moral obligations. And meanwhile our pensioners are screwed over. Struggling families are stripped of their lifestyle. Health and education costs skyrocket.

    I don't much care what name you put on our political or economic system. I just care that we get rid of the greedy, self-serving, corrupt mongrels who are destroying a good country and making it futile to work hard and plan for a comfortable future.
    TREBOR
    18th May 2016
    8:45am
    How is making the rich richer making the poor richer?

    Winston sometimes gets a little carried away - as does Ayn Rand and of course the unlamented Margaret Thatcher - and neither in their discussion of the West are actually discussing Socialism and the way it weaves its way with Capitalism into the fabric of our society - they are all discussing extreme Socialism which simply does not exist in the West.

    We HAD a neatly tailored combination of the two that managed to make the majority reasonably secure in the knowledge that dedicated work and loyalty would allow them to one day own a home and benefit and have a civilised retirement - now that is all gone to satisfy the demands of rampant Capitalism Offshore and its self-designed 'need' to overfeed a very few at the massive cost to the many.

    I doubt very much that Winston Churchill or Ayn Rand actually ever thought that British or American people should all live like starving Asians or crazy Russians or sand-hunting Arabs or whatever.

    Their thinking went only half way through the very issues they were discussing - and this has confused many who take their comments out of context.
    Reeper
    17th May 2016
    1:10pm
    I see Mick the Troll is at it again...are you a complete idiot to imagine people can't see you are either limp brained or just another Socialist who believes in democratic government as long as it is Socialist.

    The government we have suits all normal people, it ain't the best because we are human and the past couple of years have highlighted those frailties. Don't come the right wing crap because there have been plenty of Socialists with their snouts in the trough...particularly Bull Shitten who took back handers over lower paid workers rights, and that criminal who used Union funds to pay for his personal pleasures.....If Mick replaced his brain with dynamite, he couldn't give his nose a decent blow
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    1:28pm
    Troll for whom, Reeper? You really miss the mark sometimes. You however, are exhibiting all the traits of a right wing troll. Fess up mate.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    1:32pm
    You don't seem to know what Socialism is either. We don't have socialism in this country. You need to go to China for that. I haven't seen any nationalised industries around, have you, unless you are referring to our health system or Australia Post. Define Socialism for me, Reeper. Bet you can't.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    1:35pm
    Let me help you. Socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. Do you know what that means?
    LUVCO2
    17th May 2016
    1:39pm
    hey Paulodapotter you wrote "the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

    Just like in Venezuela!!!

    Or do you have a better example, say Nth Korea?
    probins01
    17th May 2016
    1:50pm
    Hey LUVCO2, how's that 'red under your bed' working out for you? :-)
    I'm kidding, but why so angry?
    It's just a discussion.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    2:05pm
    "There is no difference between Communism and Socialism,
    accept in the means of achieving the same ultimate end.

    Communism proposes to enslave men by force,
    Socialism - by vote.
    It is merely the difference between Murder and Suicide."
    - Ayn Rand
    roy
    17th May 2016
    2:09pm
    Frank, hear hear.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    2:10pm
    Frank, hear hear.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    2:15pm
    It has no relevance in Australia. No one in this country advocates a socialist system as defined. It's as ludicrous as suggesting that the LNP wants to capitalise everything as the IPA suggests, right?
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    5:24pm
    Reeper: I notice that most of the 'responses' are from designated trolls, not genuine posters. Not you Paulodapotter.
    Your initial post is as sick as they come and your assertions are the normal nonsense.
    Your form of government is GOVERNMENT BY BIG BUSINESS. That is what you get with the coalition. Elected with big business money and thereafter puppets doing as they are directed by their masters.
    Socialism? Not me. What you and your employer want is an American style society in this country where 0.1% of the populations owns 90% of everything. That is what you and others above are selling. This is not freedom. It is slavery. You are cures and should leave this country as you clearly need to live in a dictatorship.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    5:28pm
    MICK the troll only posted about 18 time so far today, running out of steam? You did manage to use the troll word about 6 times however but not the bigot word,what;s wrong dear boy.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    5:32pm
    Before you pick up on my post, I missed an s off times and hit the wrong punctuation mark so please MICK the troll don't have a pop at me.
    You have cost me money today in bets with my wife, I will have to pay in the Thai restaurant this evening now, send me a cheque please.
    Please tell us all why you are not standing in the election.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    5:32pm
    Before you pick up on my post, I missed an s off times and hit the wrong punctuation mark so please MICK the troll don't have a pop at me.
    You have cost me money today in bets with my wife, I will have to pay in the Thai restaurant this evening now, send me a cheque please.
    Please tell us all why you are not standing in the election.
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    5:39pm
    Reeper & stan

    Little trolls trying to misdirect away from themselves to others, it seems..... IF and that is an IF??? there are TROLLS on here, my guess is that it is BOTH of YOU TWO with a few more, such as LUVCO2...yes?

    Liberal Party STOOGE commenters... doing the bidding of their party.... is another thing that comes to mind, yes?

    BESIDES: THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO RULE THAT SAYS YOU CANNOT COMMENT MORE THAN ONCE OR TWICE... if this topic is of particular interest (such as it obviously is to both of you), then they are more than welcome to contribute as much as they want.

    That black pot calling the kettle black (even when it is shiny and silver), again!
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    9:23pm
    Yeah Mussitate. Trolls on a mission to wreck good discussion. Easy to tell an election is coming. Turnbull doing anti Labor adds and some of the posters we have to put up with posting their vile spiel. As Malcolm (Fraser) once said "Life wasn't meant to be easy". But it would be nice to see the ticks removed from the site.
    wally
    17th May 2016
    2:02pm
    Having seen all of the excitement engendered in recent (2007 and 2008 in America ) elections, the "New" candidates were almost presented as Messiah like figures. Then in the course of events during their tenure in office, they proved to be failures and "duds". The current Prime Minister, on the back of his so called communication skills when faced by friendly ABC interviewers ( in marked contrast to what his predecessor Tony Abbott got, ) was anointed by his party room colleagues as another Messiah. Like Rudd and Obama, Turnbull is likewise showing feet of clay rather than Messianic virtue the was his proponents had hoped.

    At least Shorten is no Messiah in any thinking person's view. But then, should Shorten gain election, his fall from grace will not be the colossal disappointment Rudd and Obama have turned out to be, but it will be no less final.

    Personally, I do not vote for anybody, except through default. I vote AGAINST the candidates that I think are unworthy of holding office. Recent experience has shown that the popular ALP standard bearer in the 2007 election got the boot, as did Tony Abbott more recently. Voting based on the personality of the incumbent has been turned on it head as we have seen. So we are left with the political parties to choose from. Just because you may like or loathe the leaders, remember that they are there with the support of their colleagues. They are not there "for life", as they might wish.



    So don't shoot the horse just because you do not like the jockey.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    2:22pm
    wally, Rudd was parachuted into the ALP leaders roll on a promise. He was always disliked by the Unions and the ALP long before becoming leader. Rudd only got the job because of his attraction to voters, and when he promised to step down (retire with heart problems) after 12 months. Rudd got too comfortable in the seat and wouldn't go. He had changed his mind and reneged on the agreement with Shorten. I heard this weeks before the election from a close source in Melbourne.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    2:26pm
    What people don't seem to realise in this country that only 55% of eligible voters cast a vote in the last Presidential elections which was the second highest turnout since 1978. Most Americans are just as disenchanted with their politics as we are. Even moreso than us, they are subjected to even less choice. We, at least, can choose from a variety of independents and small parties. Having more choice is a good thing, I think.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    3:57pm
    That's what is wrong here we are not a democratic country. Compulsory voting is not democratic. One should have the democratic right to decide if they vote or not. It is just another money making scheme of the government in fining people who do not vote. It is just so stupid no wonder our kids don't even bother to even enrol to vote.

    That said I am also disgusted that the RMS in NSW can hand your details to the Electoral Commission to change your address and other details on your enrolment. This is a big breach of people's privacy.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    5:29pm
    wally: good to see that you have been mellowing a bit and seeing things for what they are. Not too sure Rudd was all that bad though apart from being yet another pollie who thought he was something special. At the very least Rudd did keep the country ticking over and did not preside over mass unemployment, which would have occurred had the current regime been in power.

    Bonny: you are correct. We are not a democracy in the true sense of the word. That is what happens when you have a perversion of politics. Big business has infiltrated our way of life and believe it is their right to control us all. There will be a day of reckoning.
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    5:45pm
    Bonny

    Australia is considered one of the most democratic countries in the world... go figure.

    Oh! Do you agree that only 30% of the people who vote should decide who governs... OR... do you consider close to 99% of people making that decision.

    Wouldn't it ONLY be the highly educated wealthy that would vote?! Given that it is in their interest to do so. Whereas the run down PUBLIC education system would produce what exactly.

    Hopelessness and poverty and lack of jobs and being treated like scum because of it, doesn't exactly encourage you to vote, does it!

    Precisely your point and wishes, no doubt.
    Misty
    17th May 2016
    2:12pm
    I think by the time Election day comes a lot of people will be so sick of all the BS that they will unfortunately vote informal.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    2:28pm
    If they formed the Informal Party, I'm sure they would hold the balance of power in both houses of parliament.
    Misty
    17th May 2016
    3:10pm
    It's a shame someone doesn't take you up on that Paulodapotter.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    5:30pm
    Yeah Misty. But do not waste your vote. A vote for an Independent is both a protest vote to let the bastards know what you think of them and a change in the power arrangements. We need this to happen to change the game!
    Tom Tank
    17th May 2016
    2:29pm
    My view of politics is that we are at a point where an educated population is starting to question the political system and is operation.
    There has been a move to the right with the rich getting richer at the expense of the less well off. This has been happening world wide and possibly explains Donald Trump's appeal in the U.S.
    History shows that once a tipping point in the wealth gap is reached some drastic event takes place, revolution, anarchy or similar. In this country, and at this stage, it is showing up as dissatisfaction with the system and, for example, how the politicians look after themselves with ludicrously extravagant pensions etc. There is of course other areas of concern and so much can be traced back to the potential for corruption because of our system of political donations and lobbyists who represent pressure groups exerting influence way beyond a reasonable limit.
    What can be done? I don't have a real answer but if we use the ballot box and shed political party allegiances, that are more akin to supporting a footy team, we might be able to get a government that will, at last, do the right thing for all Australians instead of looking after their mates.
    We desperately need transparency in our Government, whatever their colour, in a way where we can be informed of who is pulling their strings.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    2:31pm
    Very astutely put, Tom. I think these changes will only take place through the ballot box as Mick postulates. Don't vote for the major parties.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    5:33pm
    Great to see some of us starting to wake up to the massive fraud being pulled on us all by the media (controlled by big business interests) and by two sides of politics who have forgotten why we elect them.
    A vote for an Independent is a vote against the system we have. Informal votes are dead waste and I hope that people considering this option rethink it.
    ray from Bondi
    17th May 2016
    2:33pm
    a bunch of self-seeking, self-satisfying, completely out of touch group of pigs whose only thought is keeping trough full.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    5:35pm
    Pretty right ray. Worse than that they are prostitutes/guns for hire and will do anything to serve their funding sources. That is why the latest Budget gave tax cuts to companies....which includes anybody from doctors, lawyers and accountants to big business. Guess who funds the coalition?
    Hairy
    17th May 2016
    2:54pm
    Distrust politicians I was a staunch labour voter ONCE upon a time now I'm retired after 53long years of work looking forward to enjoying some me time.but all pensioners vets homeless and disabled get is discrimination from the greedy maggots in Canberra.they don't care one bit about anyone but themselves.we would be better off if we were Moslem refugees.trust me they say .i wouldn't waste a bottle of halal water on one of these maggots if they were on fire in front of me.in a few short years they have turned me into a white racist supremists with their arrogant blindness to the wishes of the people of this great nation.if Jesus returns they will burn in hell.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    4:12pm
    Little chance of that. There's too many of them here already.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    5:36pm
    You know my solution. Just do it, convince others to do it and avoid being conned by the media as it ramps up the propaganda to get their man in again.

    17th May 2016
    3:00pm
    Australian Liberty Alliance Party, One Nation Party, Australian First Party
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    5:37pm
    I can't argue with that Eddie. Just be sure to find out who they intend to preference, and if they refuse to tell you pick another.
    Hairy
    17th May 2016
    3:01pm
    Self serving arrogant pensioner discriminating dishonest lying theiving maggots.thats my view on the lot of them.if trump was running for election I would vote for him.we need to get some of Australia's backbone back our pollies have sold it
    Misty
    17th May 2016
    3:14pm
    And here I was thinking you were in intelligent person Hairy, surely no one with a shred of intelligence would even entertain the thought of voting for someone so unpredictable as Donald Trump, how scary is it to think of his finger on that button and I wouldn't put it past him after some of his comments.
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    3:39pm
    A lot of people over in the U.S think highly of Donald because he is not politically correct you know don"t like Muslims, Mexicans the old women abuser Hilary Clinton (just because someone named Monica beat her to what she obviously wanted.)
    He says what a lot of us think but can"t say because of the lefties
    and always has a couple of good looking shielas with him.
    fearlessfly
    17th May 2016
    4:14pm
    Ah, hello there Misty, how unpredictable has the current and past Liberal leadership been ???
    Misty
    17th May 2016
    5:17pm
    Robbo I don't care what a lot of people in the US think of Donald Trump, just because they are idiots doesn't mean we have to be too, can you honestly say you would be comfortable with him in the White House with his finger on the Nuclear button?, I know I wouldn't be.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    5:40pm
    No robbo. Trump has a huge following because he promised to clean up politics in the states. In fairness he has said a lot of other things too, many of which he will not do. At any rate Trump will be friendless as most pollies in the US are 'owned' by those who stump up the big dollars to get their candidates into office.
    It will be an interesting end...but I suspect that Clinton will win as some Republican voters will jump ship.
    Anonymous
    18th May 2016
    8:02am
    I think your wrong Mick I think the two T"s will get in, Turnbull and Trump, but I may be wrong, anyway good odds Trump I see $3.40 for your $1.00 not bad in a two horse race and even Billy boy is $3.20 but he may have blown out a bit as his party is killing him with the boaties policy. ( I dont think you can have a quinella ha ha .)
    Adrianus
    18th May 2016
    9:28am
    Bill Shorten reckons he would not be able to work with Trump if the two outsiders get up. I think Trump would see right through Shorten and put him in his place.
    MICK
    18th May 2016
    9:44am
    The normal idiot post from you Frank. Say something worth saying rather than the anti Labor troll comments.
    talofa
    17th May 2016
    3:06pm
    I watch only ABC or SBS plus when anybody from labour or liberal comes on I press the mute
    button or go to the loo ! I am over 70 & vote Green
    LUVCO2
    17th May 2016
    3:10pm
    WEALTHY NIMBY'S VOTE GREEN!
    Forgive them, they know not what they do! http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/wealthy-residents-of-annandales-greens-vote-in-nsw-state-election-a-bit-rich/story-fnii5s3x-1227285338708 …
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    3:41pm
    It certainly went a shade of green around here in the last state election. Four safe LNP seats now marginal with one now held by the Greens and a second one a near miss by the Greens. Will they do the same in a Federal election?
    LUVCO2
    17th May 2016
    4:06pm
    Help Greens modernise.
    TIPS:
    Don't Make Us Give Up Cars,
    cheap electricity &jobs.
    Tree Worship Is Out Of Fashion http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/milne-to-discuss-greens-party-reform/story-fni0xqi3-1227116612538
    LUVCO2
    17th May 2016
    4:09pm
    DANGER, DANGER:
    Greens trying to do to the country what they’ve done to poor Tasmania
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/we-cant-afford-greens-success/story-fni0ffsx-1226850776187
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    4:14pm
    Haven't you been taking your medication LUV CO2, or have you had your head in the oven again?
    bebby
    17th May 2016
    4:23pm
    talofa, it's good to know that the vote is available for such open minded and deep thinkers such as you seem to be. The country is in safe hands.
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    4:31pm
    talofa

    Good on you! 70 and STILL intellectually astute.


    LUVCO2

    Lib voter, no doubt.... you read Murdoch's RAGs. NOBODY, absolutely NOBODY could be as incompetent and derelict as this current LIBERAL GOVT.

    This Liberal Govt DON'T even know what a budget is, let alone manage one; have NO POLICIES except corporate (foreign) wish lists which have no relevance to the well being of Australia's economy.

    This Liberal Govt HAVE caused a MELTDOWN of Aust. ECONOMY and that is in the GOOD TIMES!!!!

    Another wave of GFC's horror is on the way & the Libs who have put our economy (from the best in the world under the previous Labor Govt) to a disastrous bottoming out..... AND you Luvco2 want us to re-elect this RUBBISH Lib. Govt.

    Even your avatar name says a lot about you... ???? You love C02????

    Well, in that case keep sucking up that C02 and enjoy the rest of your day.
    OlderandWiser
    17th May 2016
    5:41pm
    On this point, I'll agree LUVCO2. The Greens are a dangerous disaster and anyone voting for them is voting for catastrophe.

    Sadly, Mussitate is spot on with comments on this LNP government. If they don't go, we will end up like Greece. I watched an expose last night on how things are there as a result of the rich not paying taxes, stupid handouts to the affluent, and screwing the poor over.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    7:56pm
    LUVCO2: more of your coal posts. Have not been watching the news lately. For the last couple of years it has been "hottest day on record" and "hottest year on record". Currently we are seeing temperatures some 4 to 5 degrees above normal.
    So try it on with readers who are not aware. This community is climate change savvy. Nothing to do with the Greens. Everything to do with the climate.
    Pay another scientist to claim otherwise!
    maxchugg
    18th May 2016
    10:36am
    Mick, every time anyone opposes the theory of global warming you instantly accuse them of being trolls for the carbon industry, so let's inject a little truth into that argument.

    Go onto the net and you will find hundreds of articles proving that global warming is real and hundreds of others saying that global warming is not real, so someone isn't telling the truth.
    One site (address below) discusses the reasons why the climate sceptics will lose, unless nature proves them wrong.

    The reasons why the sceptics will lose is because they are opposed by "almost every science institution. Major governments, as seen in their dedicated websites: Canada, Australia, the European Union, and the United States (the EPA, NASA, DoE, and many more Federal, State, and local units). The major international agencies, such as the UN (and its many agencies) and the World Bank. The major news media, such as the New York Times and The Guardian — and alternative media (e.g., Take Part. A large fraction of the West’s non-governmental organizations push for climate policy actions such as environmentalists (e.g., the WWF, the EDF, andGreenpeace) and science-related institutions (e.g., science museums, such as the American Museum of National History). Many of the world’s churches, such as Roman Catholic Church.
    It’s an endless list, source of the massive flow of funds advocating climate policy action.

    Relative to this the skeptics have a trickle of funding from conservative think tanks and foundations plus corporations (who tend to financially support both sides, as they do both parties, although unequally). The skeptics’ websites look (and are) amateurish, supported by advertising and donations — unlike those of activists (glossy, well-staffed, often professionally written). They’re astonishingly effective (especially Anthony Watts’) despite the lack of funding, but they reach only the tiny sliver of the public closely following this issue.
    https://fabiusmaximus.com/2016/03/21/skeptics-willl-lose-the-climate-policy-debate-95155/

    However, the position of the sceptics is better than might be expected for several reasons:

    1. All of the predictions made by the climate scientists have failed utterly. The polar ice caps have not melted, the sea level hasn't risen and the polar bears are still so plentiful that licences to hunt them are still available.

    2. Rising sea levels were supposed to see the Maldives swamped by 2000, followed by Tuvalu. Both places are still high and dry.

    3. Efforts to explain where the additional warmth has accumulated since global warming have been fanciful to say the least. To argue that this heat sank into the depths of the oceans is laughable to anyone who understands the scientific principle of convection currents. At one stage they told us that they had not input appropriate data in relation to the effect of warming on the activity of clouds under warming conditions, which raises the obvious question, what else have they omitted?

    4. It is known that the polar ice caps on Mars are melting, a subject that is avoided by the climate scientists for obvious reasons because it is obvious that the main factor in determining temperature of the planets in our solar system is solar activity.

    5. If the climate scientists - if you don't believe in global warming you can't be a climate scientist - are right, then the Saudis are simply nuts, having built all of those sand islands at Dubai.

    What is bad about the climate scientist is that their arguments are so weak because their computer models are following the rule of garbage in, garbage out, that they are agitating for legislation which will render their critics liable to prosecution. Surely that says it all!

    Finally, Mick, I'm thinking about going into business running a service to assist people to back winners at the races. I have never backed a winner in my life, and the last time I actually came into contact with a horse was 50 years ago when I was ploughing with a couple of Clydesdales. Do you want to be my first customer?
    MICK
    19th May 2016
    9:25pm
    maxchugg: I do take your points and they do indeed have merit. Whilst I am not a scientist I have an acute sixth sense which works most perfectly of the time. None of us can guarantee that climate change is real but the bits in the puzzle are slowly falling into place: the thinning and disappearing ice caps, the sea temperature rises, the year in year out surface temperature increases with record after record falling, the 600,000 year CO2 levels which for the last 65 years have gone off the charts, etc.
    Computer models on which climate change is based are improving with the size and speed of computers. When we were young the weather forecasts were mostly wrong. These days they are right for weeks ahead and rarely wrong. Amazing stuff.
    At some stage we need to understand that the fossil fuel industry has been doing its best to kill off a challenge from renewables and renewables have been getting cheaper and more efficient. It has been stated that $billions have been spend in the propaganda campaign....all to no avail though as you can't stop the inevitable unless you stop the cause and also stop the human population explosion.
    My apology if I get passionate about the things which matter and which the vested interests go out to destroy. ARe there trolls out there doing their bit? You bet. ANd that does not include people who can put up a valid argument as opposed to the trash from the vested interests with their phony scientists whistling Dixie.
    This game is still playing out but I knew the tide was turning when the Rockafellas sold their oil interests.
    Thanks for the post. I appreciate genuine debate.
    maxchugg
    24th May 2016
    8:02pm
    Mick. I also appreciate genuine debate, but the argument about climate change/global warming is extremely one sided and, in my view, dishonest.
    I am sure that vested interests are opposing the theory of climate change/global warming, but, as the link I previously provided shows, the big money goes to the promotion of the theory.
    You will recall that a few years back the melting of the ice in Antarctica was predicted, a story that has been abandoned now because it is unsustainable. However people like Professor Wadhams persist with their predictions, year after dreary year, that the Arctic ice is melting. Even National Snow and Ice Data Center have been accused of manipulating their data to argue that the Arctic ice is disappearing when their own pictures of the icecap contradict their argument.
    And there are the David Suzukis of the world. Suzuki made a total ass of himself on Q&A when he admitted that he had never heard of the four main datasets which report global temperature, but continued to argue that people who openly questioned the theory of global warming should be prosecuted.
    I am totally committed to the principle that I may not agree with what you say, but will always defend your right to say it. But I will argue like crazy if I disagree!
    LUVCO2
    25th May 2016
    11:00am
    Hey Mick looks like you've swallowed the LIES about "For the last couple of years it has been "hottest day on record" and "hottest year on record". "

    Supposedly hot globe was a very cold year at the South Pole and a very average year in Australia
    Here are some other trends that didn’t make the media.
    We all heard about the record heat in the Arctic, but we didn’t hear about the unusual cold in Antarctica where running twelve month averages are equal to the lowest recorded since satellites began in 1979.
    So carbon dioxide causes a hot Arctic and a cold Antarctic, and both at the same time.* Where’s the global warming?
    Hot March in Australia but not a hot year
    We heard about how warm autumn nights made the hottest March in Australia, but we didn’t hear about the most ordinary year that the last 12 months was.
    Slightly cooler than average, if you care, but who would?
    We’ve had 21 years of no warming downunder.
    We have to stop that.
    So fire up the windmills and put another $Billion on the barbie!

    http://joannenova.com.au/2016/04/hot-globe-means-very-cold-year-at-the-south-pole-very-average-year-in-australia/
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    3:36pm
    Well nothing seems to have changed. We have the same old circus in town but the clowns look a little different than last time. I have noticed that the treats are yet to be hand out so uncertain whether they will leave the same sour taste as last time. What are we now a week or two into this circus act? I've already let the circus tent so it's of no concern to me.

    It will be interesting if the RBA cuts interest rates again in June but I believe that's for the August show.

    No matter who wins it will be business as usual come July 2 for me. Nothing gained or lost.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    4:15pm
    And a completely clear conscience too, no doubt.
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    4:17pm
    Bonny

    This is the standard response of LIBERAL SUPPORTERS to DEFLECT their parties disgusting performance and mismanagement of Australia's economy IN GOOD TIMES.

    The Aust. govt is in disarray, the economy stuffed and another wave of the GFC is on the way.

    AND Murdoch and his foreign big boy elite group want YOU to vote for THEIR representatives, so that THEY can fill their pockets with YOUR WEALTH.

    The LIBERAL SUPPORTERS don't give a damn about YOUR economic problems, the WHOLE purpose of their Liberal party is to support the WEALTHY ELITE....

    The difference between THIS Liberal Party and those Liberal Party govts. preceding it, is that THIS lot of incompetent fools, can't get their snouts out of the corporate pig trough long enough to care a hoot about Australia... they just do the bidding of their puppet masters (Murdoch and his other elite megacorp cronies).
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    4:26pm
    Nothing much I can do about it.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    7:59pm
    Bonny: your posts, as normal, are not worth the time of day. Despite the nonsense you post people can see through the current government and who controls it. As ALWAYS follow the money trail and you will find those who are involved in a fraudulent relationship with government.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    9:33pm
    MICK, you are not in the same league intelligence wise as Bonny, give up, go to bed and dream of being PM.
    MICK
    18th May 2016
    9:41am
    Bronny does not show any intelligence in her comments. That is the issue. But then yours are no more than gutter attacks either stan/Frank.

    17th May 2016
    4:08pm
    The current lot in Govt. - the NEO CON, Big (foreign) Boy, Liberal Party, are derelicts with their snouts deeply embedded in the corporate provided pig trough.... leaving Australia in a disastrous state....

    Double the Govt Debt; can't deliver on benefits or services to the people; economy sliding down so fast it is nearly an avalanche (hence early elections.... covering the disasters up in order to get re-elected before it can no longer be hidden) - lowering interest rates reflect this disastrous situation; no policies other than Corporate (foreign) wish lists; no worthwhile infrastructure (NBN they are putting in is utter throw away rubbish at DOUBLE the cost) and no plan for Australia's future.

    At least the previous Labor Govt, handled the country well during the first wave of the GFC... put Australia's economy at the very TOP of the WORLD; triple AAA credit rating (1st time ever); AU$ included in international currency mix (1st time ever); one of the Lowest Govt Debt and most Egalitarian in the world; delivered on budget, benefits and services to the people, and major infrastructure undertakings... including the BEST NBN there is (compared to the Libs double the cost and USELESS THROW AWAY piece of rubbish NBN).

    With a new wave of GFC on the way... Aust. will be in dire straits... and certainly will be economically damaged and a lot of people in big trouble with debts and loss of jobs.

    IF THE LIBS can't manage Australia and have stuffed up the economy in the GOOD TIMES what the hell can we expect from them when we need strong management to step up and handle what is coming!!!!!
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    4:17pm
    You're so out of step with the status quo MUssictate that you are remarkably on the right track!
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    8:01pm
    Yes Mussitate. The current government and its cronies just cannot get it. People want money spent on the country, not sent to the wealthy. Hard for halfwits to come to grips with maybe.
    You have highlighted just some of what this despicable and bad government has done. It needs to go.
    Oldman Roo
    17th May 2016
    4:18pm
    The elderly have every right to be critical as they have been around long enough to observe the failings of Governments . And yes , Democracy is still the best out of other options .
    The only problem with it is the way it has been hijacked by political parties whose main initiatives are on Self Interest , The best interest for the financial backers , The best interest for the Party and only the last is the best interest for the country .
    You only need to read the comments by a few of our regular contributors and you can see just how damaging the party system is ,
    Disallow all political parties and let each member represent the view of his electorate .
    Disallow donations to them to avoid favour buying or bribes .
    Give each candidate an even amount from taxation to finance their election expenses.
    While this is not exactly a new idea , it has been mine for decades and will never introduced due to the lack of honesty we have in the present system .
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    4:20pm
    I think you would also agree that a group of three Senators agreeing is a conspiracy. Seriously, I am appalled that the Senate is used as an extension of the Lower House rather than it's original purpose as a House of Review. There's no place for political parties in the Senate.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    4:23pm
    The problem is that our constitution is so loose, you could drive a Mac Truck through it without hitting an idea protecting the public from the machinations of politicians or government. It doesn't even mention a Prime Minister.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    8:02pm
    Agreed.
    maxchugg
    17th May 2016
    4:28pm
    I'm reminded of the old riddle:
    Question: How do you know if a politician ls lying?
    Answer: Check to see if his lips are moving.
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    4:59pm
    That is why you judge... not from politicians, not from corporate media but from performance:

    Previous Govt (Labor) DURING 1st big Wave of GFC - Best Economy in the world - as proclaimed internationally; triple AAA credit rating (1st time ever); AU$ included in international currency mix (1st time ever); LOWEST govt Debt in the world; most egalitarian.

    Current Govt (Liberal).... in GOOD TIMES, after GFC.... I got NOTHING but gross mismanagement of Australia's affairs and with the next wave of the GFC on the way.... god help all those with debts and precarious businesses or job security. This particular Lib. govt is the worst I have ever seen in regard to incompetence and selling out of this country. At least previously, the Libs ensured Aust. was in good order before they syphoned off wealth from us to the wealthy!

    You don't have to like either party.... you just have to look at their performances
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    8:03pm
    Malcolm has been talking a lot lately. Most of it the same old vile Liberal Party lies and scare campaigns to convince voters of anything other than the truth.
    TREBOR
    17th May 2016
    11:37pm
    stan - give it a rest.. you are becoming tiresome..... stick to the issue or stick your fingers in your ears instead of on the keyboard.
    Old Man
    17th May 2016
    4:37pm
    Just to take a small part of the political claptrap, and because schools proudly display posters about Gonski, I pretended to be a reporter for the local paper and rang 5 government local schools and got through to the Principal. I asked one simple question; "What does Gonski actually mean for your school?"

    There was not one coherent answer apart from that it will mean more money for education. When I pushed that point, it seems that the consensus was that there will be more teachers and teachers will be paid more. Not one of the answers came up with better resources for students.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    4:40pm
    Gonski is simply throwing more money at an inefficient education system. They need to become more efficient as throwing more money at it will not help. When is enough enough for education in this country?
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    4:45pm
    Good work Old Man. As you have pointed out, to get to the facts one needs to go under cover.
    I suspected that would be the case. More funding for Education means more jobs for teachers, higher pay for teachers and more money for the various Unions associated with Education.
    That's what I like about you Old Man, you're a thinker.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    4:46pm
    Are you an expert on educational administration too, Bonny? In answer to your last question, I would think an educated person would say there can never be enough for education. It is singularly the most important prerequiste to the most important aspect of life. your health.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    5:02pm
    Problem with our education system is that it tries to educate kids with little interest in learning. Kids staying at school until they are 17 and just being nuisances for those who do want to learn. We are also becoming a nation of highly educated people who believe the rubbish they are taught and cannot think for themselves.

    Health is inefficient too and doesn't need any more money thrown at it. I play a game to keep me sane when I'm admitted to hospitals in that I try to determine how things can be done better and more efficiently. I write pages of notes on public hospitals and very little on private hospitals. I estimate the staff ratio in public hospitals is 3 to one for those in private hospitals. The staff in private hospitals are just much more friendly in private hospitals as well.
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    5:04pm
    Yeah of course you did Old Man..... sounds more like Liberal supporter dossiers to promote the govt for the next election.

    HOWEVER, ALL you are saying is that principals are useless PR people BUT you have done nothing to disprove GONSKI.

    You are just putting down Principals of schools..... private????

    GONSKI is a professionally researched paper which the LIBS agreed to but have NOW RENEGED!!!

    End of Story


    Nice try though Old Man
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    5:09pm
    But Frank, the problem is, you're not a thinker. Now Mussitate is a thinker and the difference is obvious.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    5:12pm
    When people say "end of story" that means "I'm right" so there's no point in discussing things any further. Is that right Mussitate?
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    5:18pm
    I made a point STAN.... the point is that Old Man merely showed, in his own words, that Principals of schools are not good at PR.... it showed NOTHING whatsoever to suggest that GONSKI was not good. THAT IS A FACT, yes?

    Fact also that the Libs supported GONSKI as a GOOD PROPOSAL before the ELECTION but decided AFTER the election, that they would not run with it, yes?

    By all means STAN, tell me how I am wrong, here!
    roy
    17th May 2016
    5:41pm
    Mussitate. Whether you are right or wrong or think you are, it is very bad form to say "end of story" or "full stop" or "period" or "fact" as some people do.
    Some people even say "I don't care what anybody says", from reading your many posts I think you can do better.
    I really don't anything about the ins and outs of Gonski so cannot enter into a discussion with you on that point.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    5:52pm
    Put very simply Gonski is about teaching elephants to climb trees.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    6:28pm
    LOL Bonny, you cant judge the intelligence of an elephant by how well it climbs a tree. But it says a lot about the layba pardy and their followers.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    6:45pm
    Well that's what our education system tries to do. Have you noticed that many people who excel in business were the trouble makers at school. All school does is takes imaginative little kids and turn them into factory workers who just follow orders without the ability to think for themselves. Unfortunately robots have replaced most of the factory workers today. I am still astounded by the Labor's parties idea of teaching kids computer coding. That is just so last century.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    8:10pm
    You have little idea of what you are talking about Old Man. Gonski is about not starving the public education system. I can verify that prior to the Rudd government many state schools in NSW were in a horrific state of repair. Compare that to private schools many of which suck a bucket load of money from the public purse. Also, private schools suck the best teachers out of the public system and do not tolerate problematic kids. These end up in the public system.
    Your post is made in ignorance and you fail to understand anything about public education.
    Gonski? This is (supposedly) to provide funding to state schools. Can't have that can we?
    So much BS from the usual right wing trolls trying to tear down another system which ordinary Australians need. We need a new government.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    8:17pm
    For the record Old Man: high school students have not been going into teaching for a long time. The reason: bad behaviour from students which the system refuses to end and bad pay.
    Whilst you demonise paying teachers properly Old Man the old hands have been reaching retirement age and going. Some prematurely. The result of screwing teachers for decades are now coming home to roost. We have some high schools which have no Physics teachers in them and/or 4 Unit Maths teachers. So the answer is to lower entry requirement for teachers. The result: teachers who are incapable of teaching. And then the pollies find a scapegoat to come after. Welcome to the current witch hunt.
    You need to get the facts straight Old Man as you have no idea. Neither do some of the other trolls posting utter BS above. Don't take my word for it....ask a teacher!
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    8:27pm
    Bonny, that's not all they are teaching our kids. Listening to ex Labor Leader and journo for the AFR, Mark Latham the other night. Apparently the new subject is roll playing as a homosexual or a transvestite. These are 12 year olds.
    Old Man
    17th May 2016
    8:28pm
    My post was not meant to show that principals are not good at PR, it was done to see what teachers understand about a Labor policy which they support. It was also meant to show how badly Labor's Gonski plan has been explained to people. How can we support a policy when we don't know what it involves?
    Old Man
    17th May 2016
    8:33pm
    Aw MICK, we have to stop meeting like this. Again, your post is wrong in both substance and facts. Firstly the post had nothing to do with teacher quality or pay. How can you read into my post that I am 'demonising' teachers?

    Your last effort cracked me up MICK, read my post - I did ask a teacher. OK a principal but technically a teacher.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    9:35pm
    Old Man: Seriously, you have no understanding about teachers or the profession.
    You accuse teachers of being Labor supporters. Some are. Some are not. If teachers do support Labor in greater numbers then this is because the LNP has for many many years sought to decimate the profession by claiming how bad many teachers are and by attacking the right to be paid a fair salary.
    IN case you are unaware public school teachers have to contend with all comers....including kids who make it their mission to destroy everything good happening in a classroom. This does not occur in private schools where trouble makers are shown the door quickly.
    No good talking to principals Old Man. These people live in an ivory tower and have often been removed from the classroom for decades and forget what it is like. Talk to a teacher who works in a state school and who teaches ALL levels. Then you gain an understanding.
    I have tremendous respect for teachers and what is expected from them as they are attacked by some of their clientelle on the one side and parents and politicians on the other. All for peanuts pay for some of the brightest amongst us. They deserve better and are treated like sh*t.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    10:40pm
    Biggest problem with our schools is that teachers are taught in schools go to school to learn to be a teacher then teach in schools. That's a very limiting environment within a big outside world that the teachers have never ventured and experienced. Teachers are very well paid for what they do. Who gets to work so few hours a day and gets 3 times the holidays of other jobs? They are not treated like shit compared to many other jobs.
    Old Man
    17th May 2016
    10:50pm
    There you go again MICK, making wild accusations about what I know and what I don't know. I know a lot about the teaching profession in NSW. I know that nearly 20 years ago the Teachers Federation lobbied a Labor government to withdraw School Inspectors and since then not one teacher has been sacked for incompetence.

    I know that despite their protests about pay that teachers come out of university about halfway up the list in their first year. I know that the Teachers Federation supports Labor and that means that teachers union fees, regardless of what the individual thinks, go to support Labor.

    A Labor government in NSW brought in the changes to education as regards discipline. EG a student who punches a teacher can only be suspended for not more than a month and then can return to the class and the assaulted teacher. Principals have a difficult job and I am amazed that your intimate knowledge of the teaching profession has them in an "ivory tower".

    I too have respect and admiration for most teachers but not a lot of time for those who should have been sacked years ago and are still there destroying young lives. I don't consider $430.00 per day for a casual teacher "peanuts" by the way.
    MICK
    18th May 2016
    9:27am
    Bronny: your comments defy reality. Teachers are badly treated despite the perception from those who have no idea. Well paid? Are you for real? Some of the highest IQs in the country (or used to be) and they get less on the top of the scale (which takes a decade to reach) than the starting salaries of some jobs.
    To quote a phrase doing the rounds: "the Liberal Party is out of touch". More like no idea and not wanting to know!
    MICK
    18th May 2016
    9:37am
    Old Man: what a load of hog wash.
    Teachers are 'retrained' and then they leave because they are sent to schools which they hate.
    Assaults? You have shot yourself in both feet here. You are correct that STUDENTS can assault a teacher and get a slap on the wrist. However, if a teacher assaults a student he/she is either gone or sent to a school they cannot staff....for the obvious reason.
    Your statement about $430 a day for a casual teacher may have some merit but then casual teachers do not have full time employment and may at best get work for one third of the school year. All casuals are of course TRAINED teachers, many of who have retired from full time teaching.
    Of course there are no paid holidays, no sick leave and no long service leave either. Perhaps go find out what a tradesman is paid for a day's work before you crow about this!
    Perhaps grace us all with the top of the scale pay rate of teachers and it will be clear that compared to dopes who get public service jobs teachers have been dudded for decades. The chickens have now come home to roost and our brightest will not generally choose teaching as a career path. And now teachers are the whipping post for having deserted a profession which has been sold down the river. Amazing!
    OlderandWiser
    19th May 2016
    6:12pm
    I have a relative who is a primary teacher of 15 years standing. She was dedicated to the profession. She just wanted to teach, and her principal declared her one of the best teachers he'd ever worked with. Her colleagues and parents of her students sang her praises.

    Now, she wants out. The politics of the job have made it unbearable. Postings to horrid schools have made life hell. She was forced out of work for a year with no pay when her military husband was transferred. They wouldn't give her a job in the town he was posted to, but if she took other work she had to resign!!

    The net pay barely covers childcare costs for one child. She can earn more as a bank teller! Her expenses are huge - has to buy all her own teaching resources. Her internet bill is huge because she has to lodge reports online, after hours. She works weekends, nights and holidays preparing lessons and attending professional development.

    She was hit in the stomach with a chair by a child when she was 6 months' pregnant. No compensation. No punishment for child. Matter dismissed after the child and parent were ''counselled''. Yet she was accused of serious wrong-doing and threatened with dismissal for touching a little girl who was upset over her parents fighting and came running into school in tears and threw herself at the teacher looking for comfort. Teacher naturally put her arm around the child. GROUNDS FOR DISMISSAL!

    I once thought teaching was a great profession - good pay, long holidays, short hours, rewarding work. After seeing what this woman endures, I wouldn't do it for all the money in Panama! And I'm watching her colleagues leave in droves.
    MICK
    19th May 2016
    9:34pm
    Your post is right on the money Rainey. The normal writers of BS above are armchair knockers of the teaching profession but will be the first to attack now that the best and brightest have left (early). It may be pertinent to ask the above 'experts': if they had been paid peanuts whilst in government, attacked from all sides including physically and been saddled with the next program to teach from idiot politicians listening to the ratbags of society then would they not have left asap?
    Your account is the same as those of my friends and acquaintances who were senior high school teachers and who jumped as soon as possible to escape. One now drives a bus and would never go back. That pretty well paints the picture.
    Thanks Rainey. Always good to read a factual account when dealing with the trolls above.
    ex PS
    17th May 2016
    4:46pm
    Voters don't trust politicians because they are not trustworthy. They try to pretend that they are acting in the best interest of the people but invariably self interest takes over.
    At the moment we are our own worst enemy's with this ever-present lie perpetuated by the political employees and misguided supporters that there are only two party's to choose from.
    This does cause a bit of a dilemma as it is like being told you have a choice of sandwiches for lunch and then told the choice is between ham and cheese or cheese and ham.
    Both of the so called major party's share a policy that sickens me and makes me less proud of being Australian, the one that chooses to change this policy will get my vote, if there is no change of position I will vote for Independents and put the LNP last and Labor second last.
    "All,that is required for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing."
    CLOSE THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS!!!
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    4:59pm
    I totally agree with you. I had lost my pride in being Australian the day John Howard accused refugees of throwing their children overboard and this was compounded by his barefaced lie that Iraq had weapons of mass distruction, which was obvious by the body language of his master, Bush and the now ostracised Blair. Why they trot that little twerp out every now and again simply amazes me. That nasty little war criminal should be totally ignored. And yes, those bloody concentration camps should be closed before more poor sods self immolate.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    5:02pm
    AS soon as you see the yobbos wrapping themselves in the Australian flag, you know something is rotten in the country. Only those who are trying to feel good about themselves in a time and place when feeling good about yourself is difficult do people start becoming overtly nationalistic.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    5:06pm
    If the people in those off shore detention centres are genuine refugees then they would be happy as any place would be better than where they came.
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    5:14pm
    ex PS

    I am sick of this STORY that the two main parties are the same.... this is merely MURDOCH Propaganda!!!!

    JUST because Murdoch never told the people that the previous Labor Govt did an exemplary job during the last GFC and during their reign: -Australia was named BEST ECONOMY in the WORLD;
    -triple AAA credit rating (1st time ever);
    -AU$ included in international currency mix (1st time ever);
    -one of the lowest Govt DEBT and most EGALITARIAN nations in the WORLD;
    -a TOP of the RANGE NBN that was regarded internationally as one of the WORLD WONDERS (for half the cost of the rubbish currently being put in)

    All that in the BAD TIMES.... now let's look at the GOOD times (Australia had its highest income level in 2014) and what have this LIBERAL Govt done to shore Australia up, ready for the next wave of the GFC. Well absolutely NOTHING except to denigrate our economy so that we are near the bottom and in really BAD SHAPE. Hence the extraordinary steps of double dissolution to bring on an early election BEFORE the cat is out of the bag.

    I can name the previous Labor Govt's achievements during the GFC when the world was in dire straits ...... can anyone name any achievements by this Lib. Govt, during the Good Times!?

    Anything at all?
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    5:17pm
    Agreed, but our government hasn't got a place to send them. New Zealand with its conservative government offered to take some, but our government refused on the basis that it would be seen to be too soft on them and would encourage more... what do we call people who help refugees seek a better life? Oh yes, people smugglers, those pesky little people who helped Jews escape Germany and Vietnamese to escape Vietnam, Syrians to escape Syria and Algerians to escape Algeria and Tamils to excape ........and so on. You are so worldly Bonny, I'm surprised you haven't been offered a job with the Human Rights Commission.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    5:29pm
    Good point Mussitate, but Labour is not squeeky clean. In fact, they have shown little courage in facing down the LNP on the treatment of refugees, climate change, wealth disparity, encouragement of industries outside mining particularly the coal industry, and taking on the government in the area of defence, particularly our association with the US, which has led our Ministry of Attack to outlay too much on unsuitable aircraft and no doubt, inferior submarines. The French are going to get more out of this little venture than SA. And who are we going to attack with our new submarines. We need defence capabilities, not attack capabilities.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    5:42pm
    We are now paying for Labor's excessive spending disaster during the GFC which is why were have such a large debt that needs to repaid ASAP. We as a country as living beyond our needs and are producing very little for our efforts. It's a recipe for a coming disaster.
    Misty
    17th May 2016
    7:26pm
    Well your lot didn't do a good job with your education either did they Frank?, you had better go back to school and learn to spell correctly, (Tongue in cheek ).
    Misty
    17th May 2016
    7:29pm
    Bonny you obviously haven't caught up with some of these posts, the LNP have tripled the deficit and lifted the Debt Ceiling, all on their own, no GFC as an excuse so don't bang on about the debt Labor left get your facts straight.
    particolor
    17th May 2016
    8:08pm
    Exactly !! They're Incompetent Nincompoops !! :-(
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    8:22pm
    The normal Bonny posts. Not worth the bits or bytes used in the posts. Just the normal meaningless nonsense. Whilst we are entertained to more talk about 'Labor excesses' there is no mention about Abbott's promise to "bring the budget back into surplus". Yeah...we now have LNP deficits three times the size of Labor and a Debt Ceiling removed so that the current government is able to borrow more and more. Such are the lies.

    ex PS: ""All,that is required for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing." Isn't that the truth!
    roy
    17th May 2016
    9:27pm
    MICK the troll is on a roll, hey I'm a poet and don't know it, I speak in rhyme all the time.
    Talking of evil dear boy once again when are you going to stand for Parliament? You just don't answer my question do you dear boy?
    roy
    17th May 2016
    9:29pm
    The normal Bonny posts leave plank like you standing MICK dear boy and you know it, have you spoken to your wife and family today?
    You have cost me $50 and a Thai meal tonight.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    9:36pm
    Troll x 2 dear boy.
    ex PS
    19th May 2016
    9:17am
    Bonny, you keep going on about Labors excessive spending during the GFC. Have you considered how much it would of cost in unemployment payments and the closing down of businesses that would be unlikely to start up again if that course of action was not taken.
    Other developed countries that took the fearful austerity measure approach did not do as well as Australia.
    ex PS
    19th May 2016
    12:23pm
    Mussitate, I don't take any notice of Australian political news programs as they are all slanted one way or the other and are practically never factual.
    I was a lifetime Labor supporter until they decided to race the LNP to the bottom of the cesspool by imitating their persecution of legal refugees. Yes they are the best of two bad governments. but why should we have to put up with the best of two weasels when there is an alternative. In the things that count to me the two major parties are too similar they both put winning votes ahead of providing good government.
    If you look back at some of my comments you will see where I have given credit to the Labor Party where they warrant it, and I will do the same for the LNP if and when they do something of consequence.
    Alex
    17th May 2016
    5:17pm
    If nothing else voting for Independents sends a message to the 'main' parties that we can no longer tolerate what they are doing and provides an incentive for them to go away and get better policies. One of the main obligations of a Federal government is to provide aged pensions and senior care. It is a central part of their responsibility and a major direct Federal cost. Most other services are provided by States. However neither party appears to have given any thought as to how they will provide for pensions in the future having plundered the capital accumulated from the levy paid for that purpose. Their plan for the future omits their main responsibility. Instead they are offering money for projects that are State responsibilities such as roads and swimming lessons, while taking money from States and from pensioners to pay for their largess.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    8:23pm
    A message is what is needed. And less power to both of the majors should be the end game. Break the monopoly!
    roy
    17th May 2016
    9:24pm
    MICK, no troll word in your post, what's going wrong?
    Alex
    17th May 2016
    5:33pm
    Yes Mussitate. It is a pity the Labor Party does not appear to see its achievements in such a positive light and does little to defend its accomplishments during the GFC. They appear to have happily accepted all the criticisms heaped upon them and done little to counter the 'debt and deficit disaster' slogan. They did well at the time of the GFC but the foresight and forward planning was not there for carrying on with their major obligations after the decline of the mining boom. They did not plan thoroughly enough for the maintenance of their essential responsibilities in tighter economic times in their last years in coalition neither did the Liberal Party (pre GFC) plan for an economic downturn in its last years of Government.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    5:44pm
    Labor did a terrible job during the GFC and that's why we are in such a mess today.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    8:26pm
    Labor did an acceptable job during the GFC. That's why Australia did not have 30%+ unemployment like other countries. Never a mention of that Bronny!

    Alex: a GFC is tough for whoever is in power and Labor did a reasonable job under the circumstances. Since then the LNP government has gone AWOL and is wrecking the country with real debt....which now does not need to occur. A choice not a necessity.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    9:24pm
    The only reason we didn't suffer so much during the GFC was because of the iron ore and coal that the Chinese wanted and then those commies AKA Liebor wasted it all, MICKOVITCH, you know that very well so stop dreaming you nasty little troll.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    9:41pm
    Agree China saved us from the GFC but Labor nearly wrecked that to.

    Our unemployment figures are probably closed to 30% than the figures they publish. How can someone employed for an hour a week be employed? Only those that register are counted. I don't have a job but I'm not counted either. Neither is the toyboy or housekeeper.
    MICK
    18th May 2016
    9:23am
    Let's have a discussion about Costello in his hammock wasting the height of the mining boom and handing out Baby Bonuses rather than a Labor government which was permitted to win office as the GFC hit....and then had to keep Australians in a job. Never a mention of that.
    ex PS
    19th May 2016
    8:36am
    Bonny, all governments play around with unemployment figures. Watch out for major training initiatives being funded by government around election time. If you are undertaking training and are taking government payments you are not counted as unemployed, I would be willing to bet that the unpayed slaves that the government provides to industry as interns will also not show up on the unemployed figures.
    If you look at the countries that employed other methods than labor during the GFC, especially those that scrimped on the spending package you will see whether it was a success or not.
    It is also interesting to note that it is only Australians that seem to think Australia is in a hell of a mess, other countries envy us.
    octagenarian+2
    17th May 2016
    5:39pm
    What hope is there when all of your correspondents resort to name calling which just puts them in the same class as our politicians who cannot be bothered with governing the country with any degree of care for the needy.
    If all of those who are needy for whatever reason could vote as one interested block then those of who are elderly, disabled etc would have nothing to fear.
    My position is that I thought that I had made an adequate position for my retirement but I have lived too long and the super has run out and now my wife and I have to live on an old age pension which when I started earning was a RIGHT for every taxpayer/citizen. When that was taken away from all Australians then that was when the rot set in Ray
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    5:43pm
    Too many people now on welfare and not enough tax payers to provide that welfare.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    5:49pm
    It's not true to say that all correspondents resort to name calling, we get MICK with his favourite troll word or bigot word and he used to swear quite a lot on here but I assumed he's been told not to.
    I must admit I retaliate a bit, is that not human nature. I don't let anybody tread on me either here on this site or indeed in the flesh, I grew up in a tough area and can give as good as I get. The bigger they are the harder they fall
    MICK also tries to patronise people by calling Frank "dear boy" so I retaliate there and when MICK stops then I will.
    I hope to be reading your posts when you are a nonagenarian or even after you have passed the magic 100.
    Good health to you.
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    6:07pm
    Bonny
    True.... the biggest parasites that suck up most of the wealth in this country and CONTRIBUTE NOTHING in taxes are the WEALTHY.

    stan
    Really? I have no problem responding to people who call others TROLLS just because they don't like what that person is saying. The first to jump up and say... "I am clean" are usually the dirty ones... BUT of course I am not saying that is so in this particular case.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    6:34pm
    Good thing I pay my taxes then.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    8:28pm
    stan: you are Frank!
    If you were civil, discussed the current issues and avoided the normal old chestnuts you use to discredit anything Labor then this website would be much more pleasant. I will call you out when you troll. That is what most of your posts are.
    ex PS
    19th May 2016
    9:35am
    People don't seem to understand that as soon as they resort to personal insults and name calling the more reasonable contributors switch off. It's much the same with the political radicals, you get to know who they are and what they are going to say and just don't bother to read their comments.
    I enjoy a good debate, and would be surprised and bored if everyone agreed with my point of view, but debate is not personal insults and unsubstantiated claims. On another tack.
    Octogenarian+2, has done everything right and has unfortunately run out of money. If we follow the reasoning of some on this forum, he is condemned for trying to fend for himself and his wife, but if he had done nothing with his money and depended on a government provided pension that would be OK. Are we going to reward this person by now taking his house as collateral for a loan to provide a pension? That really shows us how we are rewarded for showing initiative.
    I agree it is OK to rely on a government pension if you have no other choice, but why on earth would we be making it more difficult for those who have tried to look after themselves but need a bit of help to make it to the finishing line. The problem is that some of us are selfish and just won't die on schedule.

    17th May 2016
    5:47pm
    You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

    What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

    The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

    You cannot multiply weath by dividing it.

    When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of ANY nation.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    5:49pm
    Agree the second half will then say why bother?
    roy
    17th May 2016
    5:51pm
    Hear hear, that should be on the front of every newspaper every day during the run up to the election and I would love to print some toilet rolls and send them to Shorten et al for them to read and "digest".
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    8:32pm
    Good post Eddie. I do agree, especially with those who choose not to work. The only caveat I have is to ask if there are enough jobs to actually employ all Australians.
    Only thing you omitted was a mention of the current company tax cuts. This huge sum of money ($40 billion) is coming from working Australians. For the record $40 billion is about the cost of the NBN so far and of course because this transfer of wealth is unfunded guess who is going to be getting tax increases if this government gets back in? Been watching for the last 2 years? I know you have.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    9:39pm
    If I can get those toilet rolls printed, will you buy some from me MICK dear boy then at least once daily you can read the message, the oh so truthful message?
    TREBOR
    17th May 2016
    11:46pm
    So can someone delineate for us exactly who these mythical two halves are? So far it's a very emotive discussion, but has made not a single clear point. For instance - I had no idea that the employer types were half the possible workers and were now refusing to work and prefer just to lay back and let others do the actual work.....

    Surely they couldn't be half though, so who are the rest?

    Define prosperity also, Eddie..... at what point in relative terms in a society is a person prosperous, and at what point are they way beyond that?

    I see deep flaws in your discussion - stay away from Thatcherisms - they are fraught with abject stupidity and were aimed at a self-serving and equally blind audience.

    Mick - who are 'those who choose not to work'? Politicians? Public servants? Bosses? The idle rich? I'm at a loss here without some solid guidelines.
    MICK
    18th May 2016
    9:20am
    "Truthful" stan? You do not have a bone in your body which is honest. Such is the LNP machine. I would not sell my soul to the devil. You have no concerns about that.
    ex PS
    19th May 2016
    8:51am
    "You can't legislate the poor into prosperity", sounds good but does not hold up.
    Governments legislated so that slavery or servitude was illegal, they made the wealthy pay for labour, did this not give workers the chance at prosperity?
    Did not people earning wages increase the ability for shopkeepers and service providers to increase there business and become middle class?
    Did not the better conditions make the workers healthier and increase the productivity of the businesses owned by the rich?
    The same reasoning would apply to legislating education for everyone and better health services.
    The rest I tend to agree with, but will add, if you take hope or the ability to provide for a person and their family away, they start to consider taking what they want by force or theft? Is this better than freely giving to those who NEED it?

    17th May 2016
    5:58pm
    DO YOU KNOW that when the CURRENT LIBERAL GOVT TALKS about "JOB GROWTH" they are NOT talking about 'JOBS' for AUSTRALIANS!

    No they are talking about 'jobs' for 457visa holders..... did you hear from Murdoch and other corporate media or the NEW ABC, that it is now a lot more easy for Australian employers, especially the big ones to get in 457 visa holders and that they now can KEEP THEM in AUSTRALIA for FIVE (5) YEARS now, without having to reapply and lodge updated info (it was previously a THREE (3) YEAR PERIOD). No, not much 'noise' about these facts is there!

    Did you know that the Libs have listed many, many INDUSTRIES (that is how BROAD this thing is getting) that are able to import 457 visa holders.... even when Australian's can't get jobs in that industry!!!

    NOT TO MENTION, that these 457 visa holders are NOT VETTED for DISEASES or SECURITY as are refugees and that many of the THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS that come every MONTH simply disappear into Australia.

    NO, the handful of Refugees are not a problem but ILLEGAL ex 457 visa holders ARE!

    GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR KIDS OR GRANDKIDS GETTING JOBS!!
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    8:35pm
    Yes Mussitate but the real lie here is that the current growth of 4 hour jobs will accelerate. This is the end game. Employ people part time, make them insecure and then squeeze their hourly rates and entitlements. "More jobs" never meant more jobs. Just a change for the worst.
    Old Man
    17th May 2016
    10:16pm
    457 visa holders increased exponetially under Labor, the worst example being that Scotsman who worked as an adviser to Gillard. Surely there was an Australian who could have done that? The recent Transport Tribunal started by Gillard to appease the TWU and disbanded by Turnbull was set to drive 50,000 owner driver truckies out of business and replace them with imported 457 visa drivers who had to join the TWU.
    TREBOR
    17th May 2016
    11:53pm
    Old Man - can you link me to something solid on that one? I know Tony Sheldon of the TWU from the past, and this sounds a bit 'wrong' to me.

    As far as I was aware, the Transport Tribunal was working on inadequate payment to contractors that lead to short-changing maintenance etc and cause deaths and accidents, companies that fail to maintain vehicles, hours permitted driving, and other similar issues.

    Most of these were long overdue in terms of road safety alone, let alone the viability of the owner driver business - in which I was a past Delegate, and myself worked far more than the allowable hours - eighteen or more hours a day and once 72 hours straight (believe it) though 24 hours of that was supervisory work in depot - the company I worked for on relief would be fined heavily now for forcing me to do that.
    MICK
    18th May 2016
    9:18am
    Your posts are predictable Old Man. Of course this government could have closed 457 visas because we all know they were the doorway for employers to get the cheap labour they so often cry out for.
    Old Man
    18th May 2016
    5:38pm
    There are many articles on this subject, TREBOR, but as anything by News Limited is considered to be a lie I haven't bothered to provide a link. I don't know Tony Sheldon having only seen and heard him on TV interviews. He seems like a reasonable, sensible man.

    From reading numerous articles over the years, a pattern has emerged that I find concerning. Gillard in conjunction with the TWU authorised a Tribunal to look into road safety in the trucking industry and this Tribunal had bipartisan support. So far, so good.

    Late last year and earlier this year it became apparent that road safety was being used as a disguise to rid the industry of independent owner/drivers. Any road accident involving a truck was immediately blamed on an owner/driver when a number of coroner's inquests has shown that a wage driver for a company was involved.

    Owner/drivers were allegedly given a chance to put their case but were given very short notice to appear and no alternative times were offered. An example of this was an owner/driver who was loading in Perth was told that he was to appear at the Tribunal in Adelaide the next morning. He was also told that he could do the interview by mobile phone from his rig. He claimed that there was no mobile reception in the middle of the Nullarbor where he would be at the allotted time.

    It was then announced that the Tribunal had decided that, in the interests of road safety, all transport rates were to be fixed at a living wage rate. This was to ensure drivers could work within the rules and take all of the required breaks. So far, so good.

    The Tribunal also announced that large companies which were defined as any company which employed drivers were exempt from the new transport rates. Now this meant that owner/drivers were to be forced to charge well above what large companies could charge, effectively putting them out of business. The ABC has reported that the TWU has used 457 visa workers in the past whilst at the same time complaining that 457 visas are wrong.
    ex PS
    19th May 2016
    8:55am
    Yeah, Old Man, just as saving lives is the lie used by governments to lock up innocent people in concentration camps. At least Owner Drivers were given an opportunity to put a case forward.
    MICK
    19th May 2016
    9:38pm
    Old Man: is it not John Howard who brought in 457 visas so that employers who were crying for cheap labour could be serviced. And then came WorkChoices.
    JOHN T
    17th May 2016
    6:11pm
    The choice is clear give the libs the boot give labor the primary vote and keep the senate more independant with a mix of greens zenphon and other small parties
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    6:14pm
    No way not another 3 years of the same disastrous government.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    6:23pm
    Sounds like a plan, John T
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    6:26pm
    For me, I'd like to see another hung parliament in both houses so we can get some work done and give Bonny a diplomats job in Uzbekistan,
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    6:32pm
    No hung parliaments just one party controlling both houses so we can get something done to fix up the mess of the last 9 years.
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    6:32pm
    JOHN T

    Sounds good to me.

    BONNY
    You MUST be talking about the total inept and incapable management by the LIBERAL PARTY in the last 3 years.... look to the facts.... one liner 'firfies' won't do it anymore.

    Australia is fighting for its economic future and YOUR Liberal Party have put us in the pits of economic despair!
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    6:38pm
    No Labor party created the mess and then with all those moment of fame pollies in the Senate wouldn't let the LNP fix it. That's why we are in despair and fighting for our economic future. Things may have to get a lot worse before people realise that welfare is not the answer to their ideal living conditions.
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    7:05pm
    Bonny

    Okay.....

    I have detailed some of the achievements of the previous Labor Govt whilst in office (during the GFC).

    Now it is your turn... tell us about ALL the achievements that this current Liberal Govt has done for Australia.

    Don't even bother to mention the removal of the Carbon Tax because the system the Libs replaced it with was simply handing out OUR money to BIG POLLUTERS who did nothing but pocket the money!!

    Don't bother with Refugees because THE numbers are a NATIONAL SECRET, so nobody knows the truth of anything the Liberals are saying and then look at the current STUFF UPs of this draconic decree. Especially, when considering the thousands upon thousands of 457 visa holders coming into Australia without SECURITY CHECKS or DISEASE CONTROL... to steal Australian JOBS.

    OKAY..... I am ready for your onslaught of Lib Achievements Bonny..... with bated breath!
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    7:16pm
    Bonny

    What are you talking about.... the LIBS PROMOTE the biggest welfare system of all.... the one that gives all OUR hard earned taxes to BIG BUSINESS.

    BIG (foreign) POLLUTERS get BIG $$$$ as an incentive to stop polluting and they are very thankful for that extra money, put in their pockets for doing NOTHING!

    BIG (foreign) MINERS get BIG $$$$ in the form of water and power REBATES.... yes, the Australian Taxpayers hard earned taxes are given to those that earn billions and don't pay taxes and take that money overseas!

    BIG BUSINESS get BIG $$$$ of OUR hard earned money, in the form of CONSULTANCIES..... "mates" of the Liberal Party.... you know the ones that donate so much to their cause!

    WEALTHY END of town DON'T PAY TAXES, they go offshore and utilise various structures to reduce or make $$$ disappear.

    FACT IS Bonny..... Australia CAN afford to pay for OUR OWN but CAN'T AFFORD the parasitical wealthy, who are sucking the best out of our economy and will eventually (like the USA) will kill their host!!
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    8:38pm
    Excellent John. That'll work. Personally I'll be voting for an Independent whose preference goes to Labor. That way if the Independent does not win Labor will get my vote ahead of the Liberals, who have to go.
    The senate: yeah, Independents. The Xenophon Party is a respectable group with no apparent links to big business or any other vested interests.
    Good to see you are thinking of a strategy to get rid of the current parasites.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    9:24pm
    What a lot of rubbish.

    LNP scrapped the Mining Resources Tax which was nothing but a bad joke.

    LNP scrapped the equally bad polluters tax. That was going to be a windfall for the traders of certain big banks and finance companies. Nothing to do with pollution. LNP wasn't allowed to scrap all the welfare payments that went with it. Bad mistake.

    Big business get big $$$ from ex pollies and pollies mates no matter what their colour. Big miners have been getting same irrespective of who governs.

    I know I pay my taxes but don't know about others paying theirs.

    Google writes off oodles on it's intellectual property so it pays little or no tax in Australia. I believe a few other companies do the same. I have Google ads disabled on my computers so that I don't give them any untaxed dollars.

    Australia can't afford to pay it's ever increasing welfare bills no matter who receives the dollars. We have too many people on welfare and not enough tax payers to pay for that welfare.

    You are right if we keep going with our welfare mentality then we won't be another US but a Greece instead.
    Misty
    17th May 2016
    10:10pm
    I am so glad you agree Bonny, another 3 years of this current government would be disastrous.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    10:15pm
    I agree unless LNP controls both houses then we will be able to get things fixed.
    Misty
    17th May 2016
    10:30pm
    Anybody still up and posting here there is a program on SBS NOW THAT IS VERY RELEVANT TO THIS TOPIC , should Baby Boomers be looked after by the current generation amongst other topics, Negative Gearing etc.
    MICK
    18th May 2016
    9:17am
    Bronny: If LNP controls both houses we get a dictatorship where the majority of Australians get new taxes, OUR services are cut and money flows freely to the rich.
    Good try. Not buying my dear.
    ex PS
    19th May 2016
    9:44am
    You misunderstood Bonny, JOHN T said get rid of the LNP. I just don't agree with giving the power to Labor, but at least it would be marginally better.
    And if you really think about it, Australia can't afford not to look after people on welfare, how safe will you feel with tens of thousands of people out there trying to fend for themselves?
    Do you really think they will just quietly starve to death together with their families to prove an obscure out of date theory? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't.

    17th May 2016
    6:24pm
    PLEASE NOTE HOW WELL OUR ECONOMY IS DOING UNDER THIS CURRENT LIBERAL GOVT.....

    Reserve Bank (RBA) interest rates LOWEST in Australia's history @ 1.75%!!!!!

    Such LOW INTEREST rates are a clear indication that Australia's economy is in DIRE STRAITS and that is in GOOD TIMES, (highest Aust. Govt. income was in 2014).

    The RBA has even flagged further drops..... APPARENTLY, the RBA has NO CONFIDENCE in this LIBERAL GOVT either.....

    ESPECIALLY WHEN WE ARE HEADING FOR ANOTHER GFC WAVE of ECONOMIC DOWNTURN....

    The LIBS couldn't even KEEP AUST. "STEADY" during the good times! The previous Labor Govt. actually BLOSSOMED during the previous GFC and put Australia's economy at the very TOP of the WORLD, as acclaimed internationally!

    NO.... THESE TWO PARTIES MAY HAVE 'SOME' SIMILARITIES but NOT WHERE IT COUNTS.... the LIBS have proven beyond doubt that they are absolutely incapable of managing or directing this country in GOOD times, let alone in BAD times. Labor has a PROVEN TRACK RECORD of the opposite... they have managed this country through the recent BAD times with Australia coming through with flying colours.

    IT HAS TAKEN THE LIBERALS THREE (3) SHORT YEARS to DESTROY OUR ECONOMIC FUTURE.
    Paulodapotter
    17th May 2016
    6:29pm
    You're showing your troll colours now, Mussitate. How about revealing some of the poor decisions by Labor and their lack of real vision. Go on. I know you can do it.
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    6:58pm
    Paulodapotter

    That's the point, I don't have to.... the Corporate Media and Liberal Party members on here do that BUT they do not tell the truth, they lie and say NOTHING about the disgusting mismanagement of our economy by the Liberal Party.

    I don't even vote for Labor and did at one time vote for Liberal but haven't voted for either for some time with the exception of Rudd in 2007.

    It is the one sided bulldust from corporate media, that gets up my nose....

    I was duly impressed with the good management of the previous Labor Govt and duly disgusted at the total ineptness of the current Lib. Govt.

    Hence, the previous Labor Govt deserve commendations and the current Lib. Govt need to be shown the door.

    You MUST remember that the previous Labor Govt were acting in one of the worst times in WORLD history... during the GFC.

    I am still opposed to some of the Labor leanings..... for instance they were going to introduce what I thought was draconic legislation to take away our civil rights which the Libs didn't let through (GOOD) but then the Libs introduced even worse draconic legislation to remove our civil rights and Labor supported it (DISGUSTING).

    The LIBS have gone and sign the disgusting TPP and LABOR had not, although they had inscribed many, many amendments and were ready to sign it.

    The TPP which effectively gives USA megacorps control over our SOVEREIGNTY should never be signed or agreed to by parliament.

    So, even in areas that I dislike Labor for, the LIBS have done even worse.

    Just look at the NBN.... Labor's NBN costed and audited $37Billion proclaimed internationally as a world wonder, QUALITY FIBRE to the PREMISES is updatable, available to all, easily capable of super high speeds, state of the art, and able to innovate and set a new high for technological advancements for hospitals, business, education, universities, etc.

    A win/win FOR Australia's economic future.

    Now Lib's NBN......other than the cost (LIBS with all factors considered is UNcosted and Unaudited but is coming in as a finished product at close to $90billion).... every item detailed on Labor's NBN is NEGATIVE on the Lib's NBN. It is RUBBISH... other countries are removing this outdate pile of very costly TRASH. It doesn't work and currently the whole NBN process is in SHAMBLES. Why would the LIBS do this... because they are dinosaurs and MURDOCH would have lost billions with his FOXTEL business... Labor's NBN would have destroyed FOXTEL. Murdoch in the very least needs 5-6 years to adapt... dinosaurs are always slow to adapt.

    So, out of all that.... all I can say is LABOR will put in the BEST NBN for Australia's future, the LIBS will NOT... the Libs 'may' give us CHEAP and NASTY fibre to the gate (in the end) BUT that also is a waste of money. DID you know that Labor got the idea of the NBN from the NATIONALS.

    Labor are USA lovers and will do as they are told... although not as far as Howard went... drawing us into a despicable BLOOD BATH murdering 650,000 innocent Iraqis and entering an ILLEGAL INVASION of another country.

    There you go.... everything bad that Labor have done, the Libs have bettered.... what the hell can I say???
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    7:59pm
    Obviously Mussitate you don't have any personal experience with the LNP's NBN.

    I have had it connected for now nearly a year and we run lots of devices wirelessly on it throughout the whole house and still can't fault it. All but one computer run on it wirelessly with a couple of TVs quite some distance from the NBN box and wireless modem. I do have a problem with an old printer connecting wirelessly to a new Windows 10 desktop but that is because there is no windows 10 driver for that printer. All other devices can print wirelessly from that printer.

    I did have a six subscription to Presto but recently discontinued it as I rarely use it. Telstra recently offered me 3 months free subscription to Foxtel which would be run through the NBN. Watching movies is great with no buffeting with the smart TV one end of the house connecting wirelessly through the NBN at the other end of the house. We now just setup our system to record what we want to watch on TV and can then play it without watching the ads.

    Would we have got a better NBN service form Labor? Who knows but it would have cost a fortune to run a cable down our long driveway to our house.

    I really can't see any household wanting internet any faster than what we have got here. We are guaranteed 10MBPs but it usually run at nearly 50mbps.

    If our NBN internet is RUBBISH then it good enough rubbish for us.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    8:43pm
    Bronny: ha, ha, ha.
    Personal experience with the LNP NBN? Read all about it. The issues are easy to find online. A totally Turnbull butchered up project. Like being sold a Russian car at an Italian car price. You get what you get. Get it?
    Watch out for your Windows 10 operating system Bronny. Those in the know avoid Windows 10 because it has spyware in it so that users can be spied on. Its been a hell of a job keeping it off my computer but managed to do it so far.
    You never know Bronny we may all one day find out how the helicopter ride was...........
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    9:10pm
    I certainly have an Ferrari with my internet. Any faster and I just couldn't handle it. No need to read all about it as I experience it for myself.

    Well Mick I hate to tell you but Windows 10 is the best operating system I have ever used. No issues with spyware etc not like the old system. It is just so much easier to use that Windows 7 or that dog of Windows 8. Those is know certainly haven't experienced it for themselves.

    I'm actually thinking of getting a helicopter licence. Can you tell me where I can get a good pilot to teach me?
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    9:38pm
    Bonny
    Presto!! That's another useless Murdoch joke. Telstra were part owners in Foxtel. Foxtel could be run through the Libs NBN because Foxtel & Telstra broadband operate through HFC cable system. It is one of the MANY different systems that are all around Australia.

    THAT is the problem... one system 'talking' to another system, to another system, to another system makes for SLOW and USELESS internet... unless, like bonny you use it for watching PAY TV and some bits of discussion on here for instance.

    So Bonny because it is LIBS NBN it is okay to pay up to $90BILLION for a substandard multiple systems that is inefficient, is an OUT OF DATE already (other countries are pulling it out), CAN'T BE UPGRADED, will put Australia 20 years behind other countries (some 3rd world countries have better systems).... because YOU are happy with it!!!

    Well, okay then Bonny.... as long as you are happy with it, that's the main thing, AYE!

    Forget that Labor/National's NBN was the world best at ONLY $37BILLION... uniform, extremely fast - UPLOAD & download, upgradable for at least 30years, and would put Australia ahead of the rest of the world for technology and innovation through that technology.

    The Labor/National's NBN technology, was supposed to take Australia to a higher level and ensure that we prosper in the future instead of trying to live off the sheep's back and mining until we become financially inconsequential.

    ALL properties (residential or commercial) who were lucky enough to get Labor's NBN have added value to that property and rental returns are higher because of it. There you go Bonny, you should be able to grasp now that Labor's NBN is way, way better if it improves property and rental values.

    Besides Bonny, don't you think that a savings of $50BILLION is a good thing given that YOU don't like contributing towards those disadvantaged or pensioners in our system... OR.... is this another example of how it is okay to USE OUR TAXES to WASTE on BIG BUSINESS. Murdoch, Telstra and other big boys, don't give a damn, they are making oodles out of the LIBS total stuff up and GROSS mismanagement of the NBN.... I guess that is alright to waste $50BILLION on big boys, aye Bonny.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    10:06pm
    That's the problem there was no way Labor was going to build it for $37 billion so the LNP has to do something to stop it from blowing out. $90 billion is cheap to what Labor's NBN was really going to cost. That's where the savings are coming from to pay for welfare. It was one of the time bombs Labor left behind when they got kicked out of government. Labor internet relied upon cable that is actually slow compared to the wireless speeds available in other countries.

    I have wireless NBN that is faster than that of other people I know with cable internet. I do not have a HFC cable system. Presto came to my house wirelessly not through a cable. Foxtel would do the same. My NBN has already been upgraded as recently as last week so it is not old technology that cannot be upgraded. I must admit I didn't even know they system they installed existed until it was offered to me.
    TREBOR
    17th May 2016
    11:59pm
    So... err.. since we are not on 'labor's system' - how do you know how much it was going to cost?
    OlderandWiser
    18th May 2016
    9:10am
    Bonny, if the government needs money to pay for the NBN, welfare, education, Medicare, or anything else, why did the LNP just GIFT $11 billion a year in tax revenue to the IRS in the good ol' USA?

    Or aren't you intelligent enough to understand the company tax cuts and their impact? (I'm sure your not, since I've yet to see you post a single intelligent statement! It's easy to regurgitate LNP propaganda. It's much harder to look past the lies and find the truth!)
    MICK
    18th May 2016
    9:15am
    TREBOR: It is amusing to see the anti Labor posters making it up. Did not know this blog was about the NBN but to throw in m y 5 cents worth the NBN has been butchered by Turnbull and now we have to read all the BS from trolls trying to lay blame on the Labor side of politics for what has nothing to do with Labor. Labor initiated the project. Had this government let it roll out as planned it could then have legitimately have attacked Labor. But because Turnbull butchered the project with his own misguided ideas he has to take the blame. ANY COST BLOWOUT BELONGS TO THIS GOVERNMENT.
    Good observation TREBOR.
    Bonny
    18th May 2016
    11:39am
    The government needs to cut the company tax rate is it is too high to the rest of the world. The lower it is the less companies will avoid paying their fair share of taxes. Why pay expensive tax professionals if there is no money in doing so?
    TREBOR
    18th May 2016
    12:47pm
    " The lower it is the less companies will avoid paying their fair share of taxes. "

    Are you serious, Bonny? they' take a good look at this gift horse and then throw it back? I don't think so.

    They will still pay expensive tax pros (sic), and then take the extra as a just reward for their hard work .... just 'cause they can...

    The issue is that most of this lovely will then go offshore and will not benefit Australia one iota.... and the next government or the one after will be facing a worse problem than the one they've created here and now.
    OlderandWiser
    18th May 2016
    3:41pm
    Oh but Mick, Bonny is happy with HER NBN. Nobody else in Australia matters, mate. Haven't you got that yet. It's all about Bonny. The rest of us just don't count.
    MICK
    19th May 2016
    9:40pm
    Bonny: BS on BS on BS! Don't believe a word of any of it. NBN in not good under Turnbull. Company tax rate cuts are for the wealthy and will do nothing to produce more jobs. Blah, blah, blah......
    Dotty
    17th May 2016
    7:26pm
    What do I think of Politicians !! I think they are all mongrels ! All they are out to get is the silver lining in their own pockets and bugger us low income earners ,pensioners and Retiree's ! Dotty
    FM
    17th May 2016
    7:40pm
    Bonny you obviously have strong opinions on how GFCs should be managed. Can you tell us how it should be done and what countries did it better than Australia.
    Once the initial GFC slow down had been managed in Australia it had record prosperity for the following five years.
    Whatever problems we have now they can hardly be blamed on the initial GFC or the handling of it. They have to do with a predictable drop in demand for Australian products, particularly minerals, and lack of forward planning by all parties when the slow down loomed. There is an ongoing lack of ability to see options to improve our balance of trade.
    Misty
    17th May 2016
    7:52pm
    Most sensible comment here today FM.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    8:03pm
    China is what saved us from the GFC not what the government did.
    Bonny
    17th May 2016
    8:09pm
    When the GFC hit I was camped on an island for a couple of weeks without TV, radio or even phone coverage. When I drove into a service station on the mainland it was so eerie and had those paper billboards with the end of the world stuff on them. I thought we must of had some sort of catastrophe and the world was no more like we knew it. Something worse than 911 or a natural disaster. When I got back home I couldn't believe how much our government had over reacted. The rest is history.

    Yes I invested the $900 and today it is worth quite a bit more.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    8:30pm
    Oh dear FM??? The GFC
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    8:49pm
    FM: look at the LNP trolls at work above and the BS you get back. Always the same when somebody makes a pertinent comment, which you have.
    It is clear to most readers that the GFC was a 'we need to do something' fork in the road. There was no time to roll out infrastructure projects so renewables were the first cab off the rank. A good idea actually as AUstralians were not thrown on the scrapheap. Of course the LNP would have sacked workers en masse and given the wealthy pay rises. Their normal solution to everything.

    You have a pretty good handle on things FM. Ignore the noise from the normal posters doing their best for their political party/employer.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    9:15pm
    The troll word again MICK dear boy, Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
    Will you ever grow up?
    Anonymous
    17th May 2016
    9:41pm
    stan

    don't know who the hell you are BUT if anyone is a TROLL, it is YOU..... you FOLLOW Mick around, don't comment on the topic, just attack Mick personally..... NOW THAT is the action of a TROLL.

    I will repeat YOUR question but direct it at yourself..... "Will you ever grow up?".... my opinion.... no, I don't think you will!
    Anonymous
    18th May 2016
    12:07am
    stan
    You sound familiar????

    Always write in that particular way on sites like this... never, in my professional or business world though, as I would be destroyed in a second flat if I did!

    Are you a Muslim? You are talking about the Koran... don't worry, I am not bigoted like some on here. Don't have a problem with anyone who believes in a religion or a God, just don't partake myself... I don't need that sort of drug in my life.

    Let's face it Abbott was an embarrassment and Turnbull is lacking any form of male accessories..... hence, another embarrassment but in a different way.... BOTH USELESS and an encumbrance on Australia and its well being.
    Adrianus
    18th May 2016
    6:38am
    So Mussitate, what you're saying is, because Turnbulls got no balls that we should put a union thug in the job? I think your true colours are showing.
    OlderandWiser
    18th May 2016
    11:26am
    Is anyone else here fed up with Stan's childish personal attacks on Mick and Frank''s constant BS about a ''union thug''?

    Honestly, some INTELLIGENT debate would be welcome, but I don't think any of the LNP supporters here are capable of it. They either regurgitate LNP propaganda or insult and abuse anyone whose comments criticize the current government.

    I used to be a Liberal supporter, but it's now about facts and figures, and it's clear that this LNP is selling us down the gurgler and stripping hard workers of their savings to give way too much to the wealthy and to foreign governments and to waste money on flawed plans and policies. And it's we, the Australian people, who are paying for their gross incompetence.

    THEY MUST GO. NOW.
    Bonny
    18th May 2016
    11:43am
    The LNP will stay and hopefully control both houses so we can get the debt under control ASAP. This is something Labor is not capable of doing at all.
    OlderandWiser
    19th May 2016
    3:15pm
    And you think the LNP, with their policies or kill demand and consumption by transferring wealth from the lifters to the corrupt tax-evading leaners, destroy incentives to save and be responsible, and spend like drunken sailors on obsolete communication networks and obsolete war machines, driving the debt up to triple the size it was when they came to power, are ''capable of getting the debt under control''. Bonny, you would have to be totally brainless to believe that insane nonsense! But then, LNP bigots are brainless. Their allegiance destroys their power to think.
    MICK
    19th May 2016
    9:47pm
    Mussitate: yeah. Pretty obvious.

    Frank/stan/Bonny/Reeper/heemskerk, etc.......here for one reason only, to poison the political debate so that voters will not vote Labor. But just like Abbott before the last election these posters are spewing lies, misinformation and vile stuff. They are what they are. Happy you have picked up on that.
    particolor
    17th May 2016
    8:06pm
    Australian Politics at the moment are *$%#(@!* %$#*!@(* & $%*&#@!)&## #$%$@
    %$(*&^%$#....
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    8:51pm
    You've been eating too many Chinese fortune cookies particolor. Only one beer a day for pensioners as well. Chuckle.....
    TREBOR
    18th May 2016
    12:02am
    Can you give this stalking a rest, stan? It's a waste of time and is annoying.
    ming chew
    17th May 2016
    10:02pm
    What choice have we got? We need to strip all politicians off from their entitlements once they leave or get booted out! That includes ex-PMs, Govenors and any politically 'created' positions.
    MICK
    18th May 2016
    9:05am
    First step is to get rid of the current batch.
    AlbertC
    18th May 2016
    6:57am
    hi folks im back a good 55%0f you people said close to 3 years ago lets get libs back and i recall saying if you vote for Abbott you will regret it well once again you have to remember what abbott is all about ad what he is still about he was hoping to get a knighthood from the queen thank god he failed.his government was corrupt. and now he will be hoping turncoat tunbull will lose so he can try to get back in but i don,t believe pigs can fly in my opinion he has broken the rules and should pay the penalty .so come on in bill and lets get the country back on its feet before the libs sell the whole country to china. have a nice day
    MICK
    18th May 2016
    9:04am
    I also predicted ORDINARY Australians would regret putting this Howard leftovers into office. Thank God that the Independent senators blocked some of the taxes Abbott and Hockey tried so hard to impose on working Australians ("no new taxes" was the promise!).
    I know who I'll be voting for and I hope that those of us who are lifelong loyal voters think about it rather than do their usual. If not then don't complain when the gravy train to the rich end of town accelerates and the new taxes and cuts to PUBLIC services are cut.
    Good post Albert.
    PlanB
    18th May 2016
    7:47am
    I am well over both parties -- there is NO leadership and NO honesty just bickering and all are narcissistic Psychopaths that have NO flaming idea as to how the system works for the betterment of the planet, just for the betterment of their own pockets
    MICK
    18th May 2016
    9:00am
    I'll be voting for Independents to break up the game. What are YOU going to do about it?
    MD
    18th May 2016
    8:36am
    Ahmm back mafarkah, let em ho's go bro, just sit back, relax and enjoy the show !

    Wtf does it matter - all this boondoggle chatter ? Just flock to the booths with (the rest of) the mob, either way we'll be fleeced, Baaaaahh !! (Humbug).
    MICK
    18th May 2016
    8:58am
    Funny. Do keep in mind that we get "fleeced" because we keep voting in the two sides of politics. The day we kill off the twin cancers by voting in minor parties and Independents the game will end and we will see a return to proper government. Currently we have government by vested interests in big business who fund their puppets and then get their return on capital after they are elected.
    OlderandWiser
    18th May 2016
    9:07am
    If we are not distrustful, we SHOULD be. How many believed the lies about the company tax cut promoting growth and foreign investment?

    Now, if you believed the lies, did you hear ANY politician explain that it gave the US Government an extra $11 billion a year of our tax money? I didn't!

    A case for change, I think, Frank. There IS a clear choice. There's a choice between stripping hard working Aussies of their lifestyle and retirement dreams to gift $11 billion a year to a foreign government, and preserving our way of life and keeping our tax revenues for the benefit of our own country.
    Adrianus
    18th May 2016
    10:53am
    Change is good if it is better.
    How is it better to have a 50,000 refugee intake each year? Why not stay with the current manageable 13,000?
    There are already 57,000 people in NSW alone waiting for housing. Where will all these people live? We have had a few posters who are living in their cars. But I guess you're not concerned about that Rainey as long as you find a way to get more welfare added to your $1m.
    OlderandWiser
    18th May 2016
    11:11am
    And I just read the response by Matthais Cormann at http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2016/s4463520.htm

    Never read such a load of irrational, unsubstantiated gobbledygook in my life.

    If this is the best the LNP can do, they are clearly the most inept, dishonest and thoroughly incompetent IDIOTS ever to hold power.

    GET RID OF THEM FAST!
    Bonny
    18th May 2016
    11:52am
    The cut in the company tax rate will mean more tax revenue is collected. Why pay 35% in the US when you can pay less than 30% here in Australia? Also the less tax in the dollar to be paid the less money will be spent on expensive tax accountants as it is simply not worth it the lower the tax rate goes.
    Adrianus
    18th May 2016
    1:36pm
    Rainey, usually you would agree with the IMF and the OECD. Why are you now disagreeing? Is it because you are pro Greens? Nothing to be embarrassed about. It all makes sense now. Anti business, anti jobs and like MICK pro Labor. You and MICK are Greenies?!
    OlderandWiser
    19th May 2016
    3:07pm
    Frank, you are an illiterate fool who can't read.

    I HATE the Greens, as I have said repeatedly.

    I agree with logical, rational, sensible argument and substantiated proposals. Full stop. I don't give a hoot who puts it forward, what colour they are, what their allegiances are, where they were born, or what they like to call themselves. I support GOOD POLICY.

    I am certainly NOT anti business, anti jobs or pro Labor. I am anti any government that implements irresponsible and destructive policies.

    I am certainly AGAINST giving tax cuts to US companies so they can give less to the ATO and more to the IRS. That's dumb and destructive, like most recent LNP policies, sadly.
    Adrianus
    19th May 2016
    3:54pm
    Rainey, forget about all that stuff. It will eat at you. Think about the big picture. Do you know which is the biggest industry sector operating in Australia? That's right the Construction Industry. We need to play to our strengths and strengthen our weaknesses. Think of the flow on from a robust construction industry?
    OlderandWiser
    19th May 2016
    5:39pm
    Frank, you don't get a ''robust'' ANYTHING with an inept government that introduces harmful policies.

    Sorry, I'm not interested in your LNP propaganda. I'm interested in examining policies logically and debating the pros and cons intelligently, without stupid political bias that blinds people to the facts and results in bad government.
    OlderandWiser
    19th May 2016
    8:50pm
    And if you are suggesting crushing the power of building unions is going to make a more robust industry, you've never worked in the industry and you have no idea what you are on about. It will do untold damage to the industry to deny workers the protections they need against bosses who pursue dangerous work practices, underpay, don't honour their payment obligations to tradesmen, etc.

    And if we are going to investigate thuggery or corruption in a union, let's investigate it equally EVERYWHERE. Don't favour big business or business associations or corrupt politicians. Make the same rules for all. But no, the LNP can't do that! They can't stop the thuggery and corruption by their own supporters, can they? Proof positive that they are not acting in good faith and they can't be trusted.
    MICK
    19th May 2016
    9:51pm
    Frank: you crack me up again. Our construction industry is robust. Yes it does have corruption but no more than the big banks, big pharmaceuticals and the financial markets generally.
    Funny how always think that the construction industry needs regulation and the much bigger ones above where fraud is rampant need to be left alone.
    Your motivation is clear. Same as the official government line. Ignore big business and attack anything to do with Labor. Bring it on!
    LUVCO2
    18th May 2016
    10:32am
    The self-loathing of the Greens

    The Greens’ positions - demanding what they’d learn to regret if ever done - are like the revolt of particularly resentful and spoiled children against their fathers:

    The Greens now oppose the US alliance outright, labelling US foreign policy as a force with “horrific consequences”.

    Di Natale demonised the US alliance, calling it dangerous and expensive and blaming it for global conflict, inequality and radicalisation. He also wants to scrap Australia’s plans to build 12 new powerful submarines.

    And the Greens support dismantling the strong borders policy that has stopped the flow of illegal immigrants arriving by boat. These are all positions that repudiate bipartisan bedrock policy and values the Liberal Party claims to hold dear.

    There is a self-loathing here - and a sense of the eternal adolescent. There is an onanistic obsession with the faults of the family and a wilful blindness to the threat of strangers. For instance, the Greens can rage forever on the sins of Christians but say absolutely nothing about the Islam that has some adherents hang gays and throw them off tall buildings.
    LUVCO2
    18th May 2016
    10:47am
    How soon before the Greens jail priests for preaching?
    The Greens are on the road to declaring Christianity illegal:

    The party’s LGBTI policy, ­announced by sexuality spokesman Robert Simms and gender identity and intersex spokes­women Janet Rice, also promised the end of religious exemptions in anti-­discrimination law…

    Vowing to strip the religious exemption from anti-discrimination laws, Senator Simms said the party wanted to stamp out sexuality and gender identity-based discrimination. “Under current anti-discrimination laws, a gay man can be fired from working at a private school and a transgender person can be turned away from a religious homeless shelter,” he said. “We shouldn’t be giving ­religious organisations a get-out-of-jail-free card and the right to discriminate. Allowing a right to discriminate undermines the effectiveness of these kinds of laws. These exemptions can ruin someone’s life.”

    The Greens’ move comes a week after an anti-discrimination complaint against Hobart Archbishop Julian Porteous was dropped. He had been accused of humiliating gay, lesbian and transgender Australians by distributing a booklet on traditional marriage.
    MICK
    19th May 2016
    9:52pm
    ????????????? Unbelievable!
    Needy not Greedy
    18th May 2016
    11:49am
    Having just visited New Zealand and stayed with fellow aged pensioners one wonders how the hell ' our lucky country's ' aged pension scheme pales in comparison, like many here I worked on after 65 for a few years until illness put an end to it, reported my earnings every fortnight, got $0.00 from Centrelink etc. then when I stopped working My superannuation was asset tested and I received the meager aged pension amount of $85.00 per fortnight, with interest rates so low my super payment gives me barely enought to live on. In comparison the people I stayed with in NZ (we fought shoulder to shoulder with them in two world wars) get their full pension from retirement age and are able to work on with no reporting of income and no asset tests, something dramatically wrong here!
    TREBOR
    18th May 2016
    12:50pm
    Correct - though I thought NZers who worked on pension had to declare income above pension to their tax office... and if they earned a heap, pay tax.
    TREBOR
    18th May 2016
    1:31pm
    What we see here is the genesis of the Trebor Party policy of a single rate of pension paid to everyone on retirement, then income over and above that is placed through the tax sieve.

    No assets tests - nothing - but when you earn money according to the rules, you enter the tax regime, same as everyone else.

    The average nobody could earn up to $38k or so, including pension, before even paying a cent in tax. Assets such as super are not taxed, but income from them is.

    The ONLY people who would accept a loss are those with massive super already, who have had both massive opportunity in life as well as massive tax concessions along the way already.

    Really - all this regime is doing is taking back the tax concessions and saying "You earn - you pay. You can amass your savings and earn a decent retirement profit on them, but you pay tax on the INCOME from them only. that includes politicians, past and present, and all the other fat cats. Where you have chosen to hide your lifetime incomes elsewhere, there may be a case for a full analysis of your income and outgoings...."
    TREBOR
    18th May 2016
    1:31pm
    What we see here is the genesis of the Trebor Party policy of a single rate of pension paid to everyone on retirement, then income over and above that is placed through the tax sieve.

    No assets tests - nothing - but when you earn money according to the rules, you enter the tax regime, same as everyone else.

    The average nobody could earn up to $38k or so, including pension, before even paying a cent in tax. Assets such as super are not taxed, but income from them is.

    The ONLY people who would accept a loss are those with massive super already, who have had both massive opportunity in life as well as massive tax concessions along the way already.

    Really - all this regime is doing is taking back the tax concessions and saying "You earn - you pay. You can amass your savings and earn a decent retirement profit on them, but you pay tax on the INCOME from them only. that includes politicians, past and present, and all the other fat cats. Where you have chosen to hide your lifetime incomes elsewhere, there may be a case for a full analysis of your income and outgoings...."
    OlderandWiser
    18th May 2016
    6:04pm
    Common sense, Trebor. Pity common sense is so uncommon among LNP politicians and their tunnel-visioned supporters.

    Check out the FLUX party. They are proposing a system that really IS democracy. The people get to propose policies and the people get to vote on them. Politicians have to vote according to the desires of their constituents. No party politics. No back room deals. No vote buying.

    Sounds interesting. If they could get some traction, they might shake the trees a little.
    OlderandWiser
    18th May 2016
    6:04pm
    Common sense, Trebor. Pity common sense is so uncommon among LNP politicians and their tunnel-visioned supporters.

    Check out the FLUX party. They are proposing a system that really IS democracy. The people get to propose policies and the people get to vote on them. Politicians have to vote according to the desires of their constituents. No party politics. No back room deals. No vote buying.

    Sounds interesting. If they could get some traction, they might shake the trees a little.
    MICK
    19th May 2016
    9:56pm
    Needy not Greedy: low interest rates will come back to bite future governments as retires exhaust their superannuation well before they pass on. I might think that this is one of the reasons Abbott and Turnbull have sought to include the family home in the assets test. That way future government will have an out for paying up when the super runs out.
    Not a lot of fun and wicked. Welcome to LNP governments.
    Snowflake
    18th May 2016
    1:23pm
    Change comes with will and there is little of that about.
    When I came here in 1973 I very quickly realised that Australia had the greatest potential of any country but I also noticed it didn't seem to learn by others mistakes. Nothing has changed.
    The Liberals talk of jobs and growth. Maybe they should explain how that will happen. Up to now they have explained nothing of any consequence. I'd love to see them explain how they will get big companies to pay tax that goes to the Caymans. It will never happen to the biggest companies.
    Fifty billion for out of date submarines for our defence. And who is it we are defending ourselves against? Does anybody think we could repel a major nation from taking us over if push came to shove. We couldn't and it won't happen because the world now realises that a status quo needs to be maintained and to change it in a major way would bring down the wrath of every major country that fears the same could happen to them.
    So I ask again, why do we waste so much money on defence?
    Why don't we cut back on foreign aid for a while and get our country in better shape so that we can make a difference for more unfortunate countries later.
    Why don't we treat our pensioners better instead of seeing them as a soft target. Some of those grey nomads travel because it is a whole lot cheaper to survive in a mobile home or caravan than to own a house and the expense that goes with it.
    Why aren't their laws to make politicians keep their promises? Oh, yes the politicians make the laws. Not looking real good is it. I could go on for hours but the bottom line is that there are very few politicians who are genuine and certainly none amongst the Liberals. The main players in the Liberal party are self serving and haven't got a clue, probably the reason they come out with policies and then drop them 24 hours later. There's probably a leak in their think tank.
    The alternative? Not a lot. By the way, the person that made some comment about gays, remember this, one of your friends is gay or bi. Pity you will never know which one so you can't judge him as a person solely on his sexuality.


    You might be surprised to find out what the perks and wages are for all our federal politicians and ex prime ministers. It is an absolute joke how they can be paid so much for so little.
    MICK
    19th May 2016
    10:00pm
    "Jobs and growth" is nothing more than smoke and mirrors just like Abbott used in the last election. Jobs figures out today claimed 20,00 part time new jobs created and the loss of 9,300 full time jobs. In other words NO NEW JOBS as 1 x full time job = 2 x 4 hour part time jobs! So are Australians stupid or what.
    The real dilemma is that our governments have closed down entire industries for decades and now THERE ARE NO JOBS to speak of. Where to from here? Oh yes....jobs and growth. I call that BS and I call this government a scheming liar.
    jamesmn
    18th May 2016
    1:26pm
    the current prime minister is nothing but a liar who only wants to look after his rich mates and the health minister Susan ley and bishop are in the same category they have not put out 1 decent policy without lying about it that is of any substance.
    OlderandWiser
    18th May 2016
    5:41pm
    Anyone here checked out the FLUX party (https://voteflux.org/)? Interesting concept. They put democracy back in the hands of the people. Everyone gets to vote on bills submitted to parliament and representatives have to vote as their constituents instruct them. No more party politics, back room deals, or vote buying.
    I think there is a clear choice here. If enough people joined Flux, that would send a message to the parties that we are done with their antics and have found a better way to run the nation.
    I'd like to know more, but it sounds like a good idea to me.
    Anonymous
    19th May 2016
    7:34pm
    Rainey

    Pirate Party (Australia) are very similar!

    Although the Pirate Party here are independent and Australian, there is also Pirate Parties internationally. The Pirate Party are strong in Sweden and Germany and the Icelandic Pirate Party was even leading the national polls in March 2015, with 23.9% which was a historical even, as it was the first time a political party other than the Independence Party polled as the largest party!!!

    The Pirate party support civil rights, direct democracy and participation in government, reform of copyright and patent law, free sharing of knowledge (open content), information privacy, transparency, freedom of information, anti-corruption and network neutrality.

    Thank you Rainey, for that information, it is very interesting. I have been saying this for years that we should be computerising our parliament, whereby the people can vote on everything before it.

    There are TWO very important things that would need to be done though, prior to this:

    1. MEDIA.... no more 'self regulation' and new independent and stringent DISCIPLINARY of corporate or other MEDIA bias must be undertaken. Otherwise, we would simply have corporate controlled media blitzes on subjects that affect corporate profits and control of our country.
    2. COMPUTER SECURITY.... with windows 10 being 'given' to everyone in Australia, access to our computers has been compromised. Some form of ULTRA SECURE on line voting needs to be put in place.
    Needy not Greedy
    19th May 2016
    9:02am
    Great Policy Trebor, just need one of the major parties to have the balls to put that up, unfortunately due to a lack of that anatomy it will never happen, apart from giving aged workers an incentive to work on, what a great stimulus to self esteem and the economy it would be.
    OlderandWiser
    19th May 2016
    3:04pm
    Here's food for thought for all you union haters (like Frank):

    ''Real investment returns of pension funds fell by between 26% and 38% in 2008 in the more market-oriented countries of Ireland, Australia and the USA where unionisation is low. By contrast, it fell by only 9% to 13% in Germany, Norway and Switzerland where trade unions play a greater role in managing pension plans (OECD, 2009). For example, recent research found evidence that ‘differences in the vulnerability of pension funds to financial market crises are related to the involvement of trade unions or employee representatives in pension fund governance’'' (Wiss, 2014).

    So, unions can be a very good thing for retirees.
    Anonymous
    19th May 2016
    7:41pm
    Rainey

    Thanks for that ... well researched, very apt and a very intelligent comment.

    After listening to the constant party one liners and dogma of Frank & Bonny & LUVCO2, it was refreshing.

    Still have a wry smile on my face.
    OlderandWiser
    19th May 2016
    8:43pm
    And here's some more food for thought. This is from a political leader in the USA:

    ''We were originally told that companies were moving out of the States because the unions had too much power and demanded too much. Now that unions are nearly powerless, the companies are moving out even faster.''

    And just one more thing. A question for the union haters:

    ''What's the difference between a union or a union thug and a business association or a corporate thug?"

    I don't condone the conduct of union thugs. I don't deny they exist. But the conduct of business associations, domineering ego-centric business leaders, and political thugs is of equal concern. If we are going to attack one, attack the other. If we are going to legislate to reduce one's powers, do the same for the other.

    No. This government is anti worker, anti retiree, anti disabled, anti sick... well, actually, anti people, except for rich and privileged people whose votes they can keep buying.
    OlderandWiser
    19th May 2016
    9:34pm
    And if that's not enough, consider this:

    Every country in the world that has high union coverage is more prosperous and has higher happiness rates than Australia (and other nations with low union coverage).

    In 1980, our union density (percentage of workforce that were members of unions) was 48.5%. In 2010 it's 18%. The country was doing much better in 1980 than it is today. Enough said?
    MICK
    19th May 2016
    10:02pm
    Great posts guys. A lot of wisdom in these.
    red 1
    19th May 2016
    4:55pm
    You would think that as politicians want people to be self funded in their retirement they would make it easier for that to be realised, and leave super alone.
    OlderandWiser
    19th May 2016
    6:13pm
    They want them self-funded, red1, but they want them DIRT POOR as well.
    MICK
    19th May 2016
    10:07pm
    You miss the game red 1. I travel to the US a fair bit and in the land of the free (not!) 0.1% of the population owns 90% of everything. It is so obvious. No working conditions. No job security. Paid peanuts. Need tips to make ends meet.
    The rich in Australia cry out for an identical system here. It started with WorkChoices. With the current bunch of scum it has extended to tax increases for the rich (one way to get there!) and new taxes for everybody else.
    We are in class warfare. Believe it. And we need to send this bunch out as fast as we can. My solution as always is to vote for Independents with Labor preferences. That way your vote does not go to the LNP, who I would put last. That will send the rich a message and maybe some, like Murdoch, will move to the US.
    mangomick
    20th May 2016
    4:50pm
    Obviously those who thought the Independents were "a constant source of parliamentary instability" must have been disgruntled LNP diehards who expect poor policy just to be rubber stamped through the Upper House. What they need to do is, instead of whinging about Independents , go to their LNP Branch meetings and tell their Party that they need to compromise to get Legislation through instead of trying to use a big stick. Both major parties seem to forget that they are supposed to be Governing for the whole of Australia not just the select few.
    ex PS
    20th May 2016
    5:21pm
    Exactly, the Independents are more saviors than obstructionists. It is not their fault that the government hasn't got a clue as to how negotiation works, which is incredable considering the profession they have chosen.
    Tedwalker
    21st May 2016
    10:50am
    I agree with the comment made above:

    Dr Max Halupka, also of the IGPA, believes the short story is that older Australians are confident in democracy, but not in the politicians involved in the system.

    And also this comment:

    I imagine that, as distrustful as we are of politicians, most of them, at some stage, got into the game to make a positive difference. Sadly, though, that optimism is, more often than not, crushed by the weight of the party line and political manoeuvring.

    My old father in law used to say, about politicians and councillors, "They're only there for their own aggrandisement".
    Misty
    21st May 2016
    11:10am
    And after this debacle with the NBN and the FP investigation I have even less regard for pollies, what a joke, MT knew nothing but Mitch Fifield did and din't tell the PM who previously was in charge of the NBN. THE NBN IS A TAX PAYER FUNDED ORGANISATION AND AS SUCH, WE THE TAX PAYERS, ARE ENTITLED TO KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THIS COMPANY SO WHY THE SECRECY?. Sorry about the capitols I wasn't looking and don't have time to re type. They are calling MT Tony Turnbull on some other comment sites and Tony in a better suit, quite apt I thought.
    ex PS
    22nd May 2016
    6:54pm
    I'm sure that at some stage Malcolm murmured in an offhanded way "Will someone not rid me of those pesky NBN reports"and someone raced of and had a word with the Director of the Federal Police. It is the way governments work, that way Malcolm can then truthfully declare that he did not interfere.
    When working on crucial projects for the government I witnessed cases where someone from the ministers office would approach the Director of a Department and say "The Minister has expressed a keen interest in knowing how this project works out". This was a code for ensuring that the result is in keeping with the political views of the relevant Minister. It happened under both types of Government and it would be a foolhardy Public Servant who ignored the sentiment.
    travelman
    21st May 2016
    11:42am
    Edwin Pope. We have been having bad governments for some years now and you are right, they are getting worse even to the point of criminal behaviour. How is it that our governments have sunk to this low level of moral standards? Perhaps we are also to blame because we failed, we voted and then sat back and allowed the government to run amuck and we have got into the habit of accepting lies, deceit, dishonesty and incompetence, without even a whisper. About time we, this nation, started to sound our discontent and seek to sack bad governments who so often cheat us.

    21st May 2016
    7:39pm
    The NBN/ALP raid debacle is an Australian Watergate.

    What WE the people are NOT being told is that an NBN representative attended the raid along side the AFP as a form of 'deputy' and was allowed by the AFP to take photos of ALP confidential documentation, some were specifically about the ALP's new policies on THEIR far far cheaper and superior NBN.

    If it wasn't for someone identifying the 'deputised' AFP member as an NBN rep. and NOT a AFP member, no one would be the wiser. By the time AFP realised that the 'deputised' NBN rep. had been identified and that it was known that photos of confidential ALP docs were taken, they were required to state that before they could have the photos deleted, they had been disseminated.

    WHY was a NBN rep included in the AFP raid?
    WHY was this NBN rep permitted by the AFP to take photos of ALP confidential documentation?

    WHERE does the ALP go to have this incident involving the Aust. Federal Police (AFP) in GROSS nepotism, CORRUPTION and abuse of Authority by the AFP, looked at. WHO investigates the impartiality and corruption of the AFP.... the military????

    WILL this IMPARTIALITY and CORRUPTION be allowed to go unchallenged???

    It appears so!

    The AFP's total obedience to Liberal Party Govt directional requirements in this NBN issue, is very, very serious and is at the foundation of our democratic processes.

    The raids were bad enough but to allow the STEALING and DISBURSEMENT of confidential private documents with the use of AFP's authority and compliance, is unbelievable.
    ex PS
    22nd May 2016
    6:58pm
    All the more reason to have an Anti Corruption Commission that can investigate all corruption, not just the ones that can deliver votes for the incumbent government.
    Crazy Horse
    22nd May 2016
    12:27pm
    http://www.crikey.com.au/2016/05/16/are-conservatives-better-economic-managers/
    Anonymous
    22nd May 2016
    7:45pm
    Crazy Horse

    Thanks..... very interesting article.

    My thoughts on the management of the Libs as compared to Labor have always been that the Libs rule in good times, whereby they put most of the big money in their own pockets and we the people always fall back on Labor in shaky or bad times.

    Hence, I have always thought that the Libs were NOT the best managers of Australia's affairs... how can they be when their major aim is to pour money into the big end of town. OLD FASHION economic THEORY that simply doesn't work but the Libs dogmatically keep pushing this strategy without any thought out or tested policies in regard to how they affect Australia's economy.

    Something NO business manager would ever do because such bad management techniques would send them broke within 2-3 years.
    Not Senile Yet!
    23rd May 2016
    1:07pm
    OMG WHAT A LOT OF DRIBBLE THIS ARTICLE IS!
    NO one is dissatisfied with Politics!!!!!!
    It is the Corrupt Party System .....that allows ownership of Mp's....that believes it is okay to Buy the Party and then make Legislation to suit themselves......whilst taking as much as they can get!!!!!
    No...we are not dissatified with Politics.....It is the Lying & Corrupted Politicians.....that we arei unhappy with!!!!
    As for the rest of the comments on here.....you all obviously have nothing better to do......simply childish most of your comments!!!
    Misty
    23rd May 2016
    1:33pm
    Why did you bother to read them then Not Senile Yet?, if you are not happy with this site why bother to visit here, do you think you are far too superior then people commenting on here?, go visit somewhere else if that is the case, we don't want you here if you are not prepared to look at these comments and articles with an open mind.
    Capn Dan
    23rd May 2016
    8:33pm
    My media isn't on a 24-hour cycle. I switch it off. The media is a large part of the political problem as instead of reporting many 'journalists' want to be players themselves. Or scribble / snivel for their bosses.
    LUVCO2
    25th May 2016
    11:02am
    Hey Mick looks like you've swallowed the LIES about "For the last couple of years it has been "hottest day on record" and "hottest year on record". "

    Supposedly hot globe was a very cold year at the South Pole and a very average year in Australia
    Here are some other trends that didn’t make the media.
    We all heard about the record heat in the Arctic, but we didn’t hear about the unusual cold in Antarctica where running twelve month averages are equal to the lowest recorded since satellites began in 1979.
    So carbon dioxide causes a hot Arctic and a cold Antarctic, and both at the same time.* Where’s the global warming?
    Hot March in Australia but not a hot year
    We heard about how warm autumn nights made the hottest March in Australia, but we didn’t hear about the most ordinary year that the last 12 months was.
    Slightly cooler than average, if you care, but who would?
    We’ve had 21 years of no warming downunder.
    We have to stop that.
    So fire up the windmills and put another $Billion on the barbie!

    http://joannenova.com.au/2016/04/hot-globe-means-very-cold-year-at-the-south-pole-very-average-year-in-australia/
    Crazy Horse
    30th May 2016
    8:36pm
    No difference? Malcolm Turnbull want's to give $50 billion to the big end of town including $7 billion to the banks.

    Mr Turnbull said of the ALP "This is the most left wing anti business agenda that has been laid out in many years".

    When the Liberals talk about "Left wing" they mean anything that puts the interests of the ordinary people before corporate profit.
    Aussie
    7th Jun 2016
    3:09pm
    Something to remind our politicians ....OUR VOTE STILL COUNT ...
    We are 3,183,427 people over 65 and 19% (13% = 3,017,398 on Pension and 6% = 1,361,689 Self funded).

    So we can make a big difference on the election very big so if they still hammering us and trying to reduce and reduce our pensions this may be a way to make them understand that we still alive and still voting ...over 3 million people is a big number

    So maybe an independent vote may be a kick on the bum and maybe they will understand us
    LUVCO2
    8th Jun 2016
    10:23am
    Forget the lying and hypocritical Turncoat and Shorten mobs.
    AT LAST A VOICE OF SANITY IN THIS ELECTION!
    He has my vote...
    https://youtu.be/-n_8r0LU1i0
    Aussie
    8th Jun 2016
    12:59pm
    Thank you Thank you this is what I have been talking for a long time and have many arguments with some of my Liberal and Labour friend .....
    We need a Bill of Rights (BOR) in Australia how long are we going to continue accepting all this rubbish changes and waste of money ????
    The BOR will support our rights as citizens and even better for us pensioners.

    They got my vote for sure Thanks

    Thanks mate


    Join YOURLifeChoices, it’s free

    • Receive our daily enewsletter
    • Enter competitions
    • Comment on articles