22nd Feb 2018

Retirees among the biggest gamblers, new research shows

Retirees in biggest gamble: study
Olga Galacho

Retired people are among the biggest gamblers in Australia, with poker players experiencing the highest incidence of problem gambling, new research shows.

The study was released recently after the Federal Court ruled in favour of  Melbourne’s Crown Casino, saying its pokies were not deceptively robbing problem players, and just ahead of the Tasmanian election, in which the future of pokies is a “hot button issue”.

“The data shows that while very few Australians play poker regularly, there is a very high rate of problem gambling among those who do, as well as a high rate of financial problems in their households,” said Jennifer Baxter, manager at the Australian Gambling Research Centre (AGRC).

The centre analysed data from the Household, Income and Labour Dynamics in Australia (HILDA) Survey to conclude that households where regular poker players lived were much more likely to experience financial problems than the average household.



The survey also revealed that compared with the general population, bingo players were substantially more likely to be female, aged 65 and over, with fewer than 10 years of schooling, were retired or not employed and not looking for work, lived alone, lived in the lowest socio-economic areas, had the lowest incomes, and drew their main source of income from welfare payments.

Findings uncovered about regular gamblers compared to the rest of the population included that they were more likely to:

  • Be aged 50 and older and retired.
  • Draw their main source of income from welfare payments.
  • Be males.
  • Have 10 years or fewer of schooling.
  • Live outside a major city.

 

The HILDA results indicated that in a typical month, 39 per cent of Australian adults gambled.  

“Among regular gamblers, lottery participation was most common (76 per cent). Other commonly reported activities were the regular purchase of instant scratch tickets (22 per cent) and playing of electronic gaming machines (21 per cent),” the analysis reported.

Participation in casino table gambling, bingo, private betting and poker were cited by fewer than three per cent of gamblers.

A study of the job status of regular gamblers showed that while most were in full-time employment, the next biggest group were retirees, which formed 25 per cent of this category. Just 16.3 per cent of gamblers were in part-time employment.

Do you like to have a flutter? Is problem gambling an issue in your community? Should welfare recipients’ gambling habits be monitored by the Government?

Related articles:
Gambling saved me
Annoying gambling commercials
Pokies like cocaine addiction

All content on the YourLifeChoices' website is of a general nature and has been prepared without taking into account your objectives, financial situation or needs. It has been prepared with due care, but no guarantees are provided for ongoing accuracy or relevance. Before making a decision based on this information, you should consider its appropriateness with regard to your circumstances. You should seek professional advice from a financial planner, lawyer or tax agent in relation to any aspects that affect your financial and legal circumstances. Financial comments provided by readers cannot be relied on as professional advice, but as general comments only.





COMMENTS

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Brissiegirl
23rd Feb 2018
10:32am
Problem gambling is no worse than problem drinking, problem eating, problem shopping, problem smoking - all of these things in excess can break up homes. Maybe governments would like to close hotels, ban alcohol, ban cigarettes, ban anything we eat they say is not good for us. They seem to think that the few old buggers who budget for lunch with friends and play the pokies should be the target group that is denied their bit of fun. My mother and her mates looked forward to the social side of their once a week outing for lunch and a few goes on the pokies. We don't need governments telling us how to spend our money. There's about 100 people annually who abuse codeine tablets but now the government has decided that migraineurs, women suffering bad period pain, etc. etc. have to incur medicare costs by visiting the doctor to get anything containing codeine. The rules, all because of a very small amount of silly people, is going to add $$$millions to the federal budget with people visiting doctors and emergency departments just because their pain requires something stronger than panamax. Governments are sticking their noses too far into our lives.
TREBOR
23rd Feb 2018
10:48am
Typical sledge hammer to a gnat by government. Bob Carr in NSW came up with a brilliant solution to 'problem gambling' - raise the tax on pokies, so they were tightened up, so those PG'ers would all be starved out.... well DUUUUH.

Governments are always way out of touch with reality. Time we brought them down a peg or two.
Raphael
23rd Feb 2018
2:32pm
But it’s these same bludgers who say their pensions are not enough
Not enough to cater for their gambling alcohol and ciggies that’s for sure
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
2:44pm
Go and take lessons in sociology before you demonstrate your gross ignorance and nasty attitude, Raphael. You have no clue what you are on about.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
2:45pm
I suppose you approve of investing in the stock market or managed funds? Sure, THAT form of gambling benefits the rich and privileged, so it's okay.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
2:49pm
Having money in the bank is an even bigger gamble as you rarely if even win after tax and inflation.
Raphael
23rd Feb 2018
2:53pm
If these idiot pensioners invested what they spend on gambling alcohol and ciggie Iinto the stock market they’d see their income grow year on year
But why would they , they would rather blow every cent just like they have done all their working lives
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
2:58pm
Then maybe the pokie players are the smart ones! They might be taking less risk than the rest of us. And apparently your focus is solely deprivation of freedom and self-respect and has nothing to do with claimed desire to protect people from themselves, as you seem to want to force them into riskier activities.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:11pm
Investing in the stock market has only a very small fee brokerage fee of 0.01% not 30% tax plus pokie overheads. You have lost over 30% of your money as soon as you insert that coin.

The odds of wining lotto are worse than being struck by lightning 3 times on the same day.

I suppose some would find the stock market boring as it can take time to make money whereas winning the pokies is instant gratification.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
3:31pm
And many have lost their entire fortune on the stock markets - and their lives as a result. But that's okay. Some rich bastards have done well out of it so let's just torment people who choose other ways to risk their hard-earned.
Raphael
23rd Feb 2018
3:34pm
So now you condone gambling

I think you’re just a sad old whinger Rainey

Looking for a handout any which way you can get it
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:40pm
The only people who lose their entire fortune are those who should never have invested in it in the first place.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
3:48pm
If I was looking for a handout, Raphael, I'd simply quit working and apply for a pension. I'd be eligible. And I have never said I condone gambling. I simply said that the stock market is gambling. And OG says putting money in the bank is gambling. So why are we ranting about people opting for a form of gambling THEY happen to prefer? Who the hell elected you God and gave you the right to dictate other people's use of THEIR money?

I don't like that I pay tax to fund pensions for people who squander their money, but there are a million ways to squander and nobody is ever going to stop that, except by reforming the pension system to reward savers instead of punishing them. And I don't like the fact that I pay tax to load the coffers of greedy high-paid people who get obscene tax concessions that battlers can't access. Nor that I have to compensate for the minimal tax paid by rich people and companies that use grey-area deductions to avoid their obligations. There are evils everywhere, but some here just choose to persecute the less advantaged constantly and make the nastiest and most inaccurate assumptions about the lives of people they know nothing at all about.

If we focused on CONSTRUCTIVE reforms that RESPECT FREEDOM and human rights, instead of claiming the right to be moral police, and making nasty self-serving assumptions about everyone who isn't as rich as you, we'd have a much healthier society.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:57pm
Well if that wasn't being the moral police than I have no idea what is.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
5:18pm
How is it being the moral police? I merely made a statement that if we focused on constructive reforms and respect for personal freedom and human rights, it would be a healthier society. And it would be.
Triss
23rd Feb 2018
5:32pm
OAP's on their very small pensions cause you to foam at the mouthe, Raphael, but ex pollies on their huge pensions, free business class airfares for themselves and their families don't. Taxpayers have to fork out for ex prime ministers' to have up to four staff, a pricey city office along with business class travel. According to reports the costs of offices, air fares and chauffeur driven cars add up to about $300,000 a year each for John Howard, Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd.
Liberal Senator Humphries said it was fortunate the elderly were used to the kinds of desperate conditions that some of them now face because he couldn’t live on the single aged pension of $268.85 a week. Luckily he would never have to.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
5:45pm
But according to the chest-beating dreamers who get off on bullying the less fortunate, the privileged are ENTITLED, Triss. Entitled to exploit, abuse, plunder, rort, cheat, lie and be as corrupt as they please, while slandering the people who built this country. And all is good as long as the privileged keep peddling their bigoted lies and playing ''let's pretend' - claiming it's all the fault of a few poor pensioners who get a buzz out of buying lottery tickets or putting a few dollars through the pokies occasionally or a tiny minority whose disability isn't sufficiently obvious that the nasty greedy creeps who resent paying tax can SEE it.

I keep hearing ''X will take his business offshore if you make him pay tax'' and ''Y will stop putting in to super if you stop the concessions''. Well what if the government stopped paying pensions? The nation would collapse. What if all low-paid workers pulled their labour, permanently? Society would be destroyed.

The egomaniacs need to pull their heads in and recognize that nobody ever gets wealthy on their own. NOBODY. They use water that belongs to ALL of us. They use power created by the labour of underpaid hard workers who will later be abused and denigrated for needing a retirement pension. They drive on roads built by underpaid workers. The list is endless. They OWE SOCIETY. It's about time they stopped gloating and abusing those who helped them up and starting paying their dues.
VeryCaringBigBear
24th Feb 2018
7:11am
They only people who owe society are those who don't pay their way or get discounts. The wealthy pay more than their fair share so others can have things for free or at a discount.
Raphael
24th Feb 2018
7:19pm
Triss - I disagree with the ridiculous pension scheme for pollies too
- it makes no sense as requires a major overhaul
Any party whi advocates a slashing of pollies pensions will get my vote

Btw - OAP is not meager . It’s quite generous and sufficient to live by
TREBOR
23rd Feb 2018
10:46am
I suppose many have not much else to do, and some seem to have a heap of cash. I gamble online, which means I become very cynical about the machines and such, and I hardly put cash into pokies these days. 50c each way on the horses or dogs... last of the big spenders.

I do occasionally see older people splashing $5 a shot on the pokies..... I suppose many feel it's not worth keeping, so they might as well get into something for fun while they're still on their feet.

My ex (I'm her carer) likes to 'veg out' by playing pokies - $10 or $20 max at a time.
Tib
23rd Feb 2018
11:02am
I've never understood pokies , it's not even a game of chance, the machines are programmed to take your money there is no chance involved. If someone said to you come over here and push this button till all your money disappears you would say are you nuts , but that's what pokies are. Lottery participation is mostly harmless if your only spending a few dollars a month. The gender comments don't mean much problem gamblers are problem gamblers if you spend $5 on the lottery you may be a gambler but it's not a problem , if you spend $1000 on pokies you are a gambler but it is a problem. All of the people I know with a pokies problem aepre women but I'm sure there's exceptions.
Triss
23rd Feb 2018
2:34pm
That's because the only people you spend your time looking for faults in are female. The majority of surveys done conclude that it's mostly males who are problem gamblers. But like you say there is a big difference between the people who have enough money to gamble and the ones who don't.
Tib
24th Feb 2018
1:28pm
Yes but I've seen plenty of info that suggest females are particularly susceptible to pokies ,and since all the people I know with a pokies problems are female my personal experience supports the data. Pokies are also one of those areas that continue to grow and with it the number of people who are addicted is also growing. As far as looking for faults in females ... What can I say at least I picked something easy. Ha ha
AutumnOz
23rd Feb 2018
11:04am
My parents were on the OAP and Mum saved every cent she saved by cautious shopping and once every six or eight weeks they went to the local RSL Club for lunch and put about $10 through the pokies.
Where is the harm or addiction to gambling in an outing like that?
Tib
23rd Feb 2018
11:15am
There's no harm in that but I think we have all seen those people who have been sitting there all day with a desperate look on their faces trying to win back money they've lost.
TREBOR
23rd Feb 2018
12:40pm
I've worked in clubs and frankly the rules are silly - staff may not intervene unless the 'user' wants them to... even a friend, you can't tap on the shoulder and say: "Mate - you've spent enough."

I've had women come to me crying that they've spent all their pension money... what can you do? All they can do is go to a charity.

Self-exclusion is the rule, and often problem gambling is a sign of despair and the desperate hope for 'the big one' - not uncommon in this modern day and age - look at the way banks gamble your savings on the stock markets and such.... and your savings are no longer protected. If they go down, they'll get a payout from the public purse........... you won't unless there's enough left to (buzzword coming) trickle down.
HS
24th Feb 2018
1:44pm
I remember, at one club, an elderly, retired, player sitting at a poker machine complaining he had put through $7,000 that day without any major payout.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
11:20am
Every time I go to a local club there is a line up for the pokies. Most players are old enough to be pensioners and to see all those $50 bills being put in astounds me.

That welfare card is well over due.
Rae
23rd Feb 2018
12:20pm
Yes it will limit losses and also still allow people to choose whether to visit the clubs or save a few dollars regularly. I believe around 20% is still paid in cash.

I'd be happier if the card wasn't a for profit private business though and was government run and controlled not for profit. Small local businesses, such as farmers markets and second hand outlets etc need to be supported to be able to supply through the cards. That means the money being paid over promptly by the government.

The profits would be better used in my opinion helping those with specific needs rather than making a few business people wealthy at taxpayer expense.

It's a big step towards the corporate state and if not managed carefully could do a lot of harm but managed well be of benefit to those needing money management.
TREBOR
23rd Feb 2018
12:42pm
Nonsense - self-determination, innit..... s'all about personal choices, like gay marriage and such...criminal drug running.... perjury on the stand.....innit??

People here are not and never will be while I stand, vassals of the state in which they reside.... and that is a line drawn in solid rock.....
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
2:21pm
You live in a very strange foreign world, OG. You never meet hardworking frugal people who are struggling against injustice. You never meet genuinely disabled people. You never meet rich people who aren't nice and generous. The only people you ever come across are welfare recipients who gamble excessively or who spend up big on cruises! Given that most welfare recipients can't afford either, and we know that 1/4 of aged pensioners are living below the poverty line and thousands are homeless or struggling to afford reasonable accommodation, I'd love to know where all these strange beasts hang out. Clearly NOT in the Australia most of us live in. More likely in your fantastic imagination, I'm guessing,

Yes, I'm sure you'd love to see everyone who isn't wealthy denigrated and their ability to manage their income to achieve the best possible lifestyle and - in some cases - rise above needing welfare - persecuted and downtrodden. Clearly, you want a return to a feudal society.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
2:22pm
And, OG, you will happily broadcast any amount of lies of BS to achieve it.
Raphael
23rd Feb 2018
2:35pm
Rainey - your stats are b/s
Triss
23rd Feb 2018
2:41pm
OG how do you know that the people lining up are on the age pension? They might be like you and obviously you were in the line or you wouldn't have been close enough to see all the $50 notes.
Perhaps on everyone's 65th birthday they should be given a card which allows them to draw out no more than $10 a week for gambling because OG has decided they're too decrepit to manage their own money if they're within 10 metres of a pokie machine.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
2:47pm
Perhaps OG should be arrested for spying into the private lives of others and harassing, because clearly he must be to obtain all this information about other people's private lives.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
2:57pm
Well if they were working they would be at work that time of day and they look like they are an age where they should be retired. Now if over 70% of retired people are on welfare then I have great odds in my favour that they are on OAP. Statistics are wonderful.

I used to work in the area of efficiency so everywhere I go I now work out how I can make it more efficient. In other words I notice things others don't.

I reckon I could save zillions in hospitals by making them way more efficient after spending last week working it all out. They are terribly inefficient.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
3:10pm
You mean you IMAGINE weird things that support your political and nasty social agenda, OG. You NOTICE NOTHING, or your wouldn't constantly sprout such utter bigoted garbage.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:25pm
ROFL again.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
3:32pm
That's what insane people do, OG. They roll around laughing when they can't think of any intelligent response to statements that prove them wrong or highlight the flaws in their character.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:42pm
I've got plenty to say but I'm man enough not to say it.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
3:50pm
You certainly have plenty to say - and you DO say it. And all of it makes you look like a nasty, bigoted fool.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:54pm
Gee I'm glad I'm man enough not to resort to name calling.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
4:34pm
No, just denigrating everyone who isn't as rich as you and wishing hurt on others.
ex PS
24th Feb 2018
9:09am
Once a Pension Entitlement payment goes into a bank account, it becomes the property of those who are receiving it, it is absolutely noone elses business how it is used as long as it is within the law.
Interesting how many people who rail against the Nanny State are on this site telling the government how to manage other peoples money.
It seems there is not such a long gap between Capitalism and Communism.
Raphael
24th Feb 2018
7:21pm
Ex PS - agree so long it’s is not blown on gambling booze and ciggies and then these people expect more welfare because of it

If they cannot handle the welfare given to them , then the state has a right to control how they spend it
Tib
23rd Feb 2018
11:22am
My mother, my daughter and a number of other female relatives have put enormous sums of money into pokies. I am talking the price of a new car. I certainly don't understand the attraction.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
11:27am
I don't either. How can you win if the government takes 30% of turnover as tax?
TREBOR
23rd Feb 2018
12:43pm
Spot on, Ebergeezer...... there are more fouls in play here than a free range mega chook farm....
Tib
23rd Feb 2018
12:55pm
OG at least the Tax may be put to good use, more than I can say for the rest of it.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
2:25pm
Poker machines are designed to be addictive. The lights and sounds are very carefully structured to make people want to see/hear them over and over.

The problem could be easily solved without restricting personal freedom by passing regulation governing the design so that the addictive component was removed, but that will NEVER happen.
Raphael
23rd Feb 2018
2:38pm
Oh God Rainey
Now she blames the machine itself - never tj fault of the bludger
Ok to restrict the freedom to manufacture a machine but not the freedom to blow taxpayer money
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
3:07pm
Your ignorance is mind-boggling, Raphael. Go and educate yourself. Intelligent people don't dismiss information without research, and research would quickly prove the machines ARE designed to be addictive. And curtailing personal freedom has NEVER done good for society. Look at the mess Prohibition created! But restricting machine design would be very simple and effective and would achieve the desired result with no more loss to the manufacturer than restricting the use of the machines.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
3:11pm
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/addictive-like-cocaine-legal-action-targets-poker-machines

Just one of dozens and dozens of articles on the subject. It's been a subject of intense research. And go ask the designers of the machines. They spend their lives studying which sounds and lights are most likely to trigger addiction.
Rae
23rd Feb 2018
3:19pm
They could up the pay out rate a smidge to ensure the game only made smallish profits. That wouldn't suit the government tax grab would it?
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:23pm
Rainey lots of things are addictive. People over eat and get fat because they are addicted to the wrong foods. People over exercise because they think more is better. People get addicted to all sorts of things.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
3:35pm
None of that has anything to do with the discussion, much less the point I was making, OG. The point is that poker machines ARE addictive - by deliberate design - and if you want to reduce losses it's a very simple matter of legislating to make them less addictive. You DO NOT have to stuff up everyone's personal lives. It's time the government stopped interfering in personal freedoms and just did its job - running the country properly.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:43pm
OGR you want people to make their own decisions but then you want things regulated as well. That just does not make any sense at all.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
4:00pm
Yes. Regulation should stop activities that create significant public danger or detriment. It SHOULD NOT curtail personal freedom where a person's choices are not harming the rest of the population.

We stop drunks driving to protect others who use the roads. We should stop corporations making products that cause significant public harm. And if poker machines don't cause significant harm, then SHUT UP BITCHING ABOUT A MINORITY OF GAMBLERS AND LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE TO DO THEIR OWN THING.

The pension is an entitlement for those who qualify for it. What they do with it should be 100% THEIR business and nobody else's. The only thing wrong with our current system is that it gives more to those who are wasteful, but YOU, OG SUPPORT THAT STUPID and DESTRUCTIVE policy.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
4:10pm
I don't have a problem with gamblers themselves but I do have a problem with the destruction they do to their families and loved ones.

The pension is welfare that should only be given to those who have no other means of support. If you saved for retirement you should spend it and not rely upon the taxpayer to fund your lifestyle.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
4:33pm
What about the damage rich pigs who abuse their wives and families do? What about the turds who abandon their families for their younger secretaries? There are lots of people in the world who do wrong by their loved ones, but IT'S NOT YOUR AFFAIR, and it DOES NOT JIUSTIFY THIS GLOBAL CONDEMNATION OF ALL BATTLERS AND WISHING HURT ON EVERYONE WHO IS LESS WELL OFF THAN YOU ARE.

Shut the hell up and live and let live.
Raphael
23rd Feb 2018
4:44pm
Pensioners gambling away tier welfare and then getting more handouts from charities and bleeding hearts like you who want to give them more money to blow affects us all
Is there no end to how much you wish to bleed the taxpayer ?
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
4:46pm
OGR doesn't have any empathy for the hard working taxpayer at all.
Raphael
23rd Feb 2018
5:05pm
Seems so OG
Me thinks she’s a member of the Greens or Ultra Left

Probably a career protestor who only ever has been on the dole
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
5:44pm
Obviously OGR has never known what it is like to live on anything but welfare or a job.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
6:00pm
I AM THE HARDWORKING TAXPAYER, DUNCES.

I am neither Green nor left, and I certainly couldn't be a professor because I have no education. Nor have I ever been on the dole. I have run businesses. I have worked in a dizzying variety of jobs. And I have had a period on welfare - during which I busted myself to get off it as quickly as possible.

Unlike you morons who make STUPID ASSUMPTIONS and don't give a care for FACTS, I have huge empathy for ALL those who work hard, but not for the stinking greedy egotistical mean nasty assumers who constantly bash people they know nothing about for perceived ''crimes'' against society.

If anybody is getting more taxpayer handouts because they are gambling, it's because morons support a flawed pension system that punishes hard workers and savers and rewards cheats, manipulators, and spendthrifts. If either of you had the brains you were born with, you'd support my calls for pension reform instead of blaming the victims of an ill-conceived and destructive system. But it's a system the rich and privileged love, isn't it. Because they delight in seeing the less privileged bullied and the moderately successful strugglers bashed down. So stay up on your soap boxes and keep bullying the innocent victims you love to lie about and denigrate unfairly. All you do is expose your offensive characters.
Tib
23rd Feb 2018
10:11pm
I liked it when the poker machine places used to put on very cheap meals and other things to get in gamblers. You don't see it so much now. I'd never bet a cent but I liked the cheap meals. It's like getting a loan from a bank and paying it off so fast they would hardly get any interest. Somehow that stuff just makes my day. :)))))
VeryCaringBigBear
24th Feb 2018
7:19am
Nothing more satisfying than playing Bingo for $6 and winking enough for a free meal after it's over. That's a good morning at the club. However 21 games of Bingo does my head in.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
11:28am
In most cities and towns there are more pubs and bottle shops than their are supermarkets. That tells me that more money must be spent on grog and gambling than food.
HS
23rd Feb 2018
11:33am
Woolworths is the biggest poker machine owner in Australia.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
11:45am
Correct and today's profit announcement was a good one.
Rae
23rd Feb 2018
12:24pm
Better than good OG it was outstanding. Getting people to serve themselves, upping the fuel prices and booze prices and the buy two or pay a fortune strategy is looking very lucrative.
TREBOR
23rd Feb 2018
12:46pm
Ahhh.. maaaan.. days of grog will get you through days of no food better than days of food will get you through days of no grog.... arrrrhhhhh... yeeeaahh....

It's a sign of the despair in society and of the relative luxury in which we live - far too many have time and energy to feel 'down' over silly things like 'I'm bored'....... nothing to do with my time but focus on the negatives.... blah, blah, blah.....
VeryCaringBigBear
24th Feb 2018
7:24am
I just hate those buy 2 to save or pay a fortune for one.

Last week they gave me $15 off for spending $40. No it was a special offer nothing to do with points. Get one of those Woolies rewards and sign up for their emails. Have been given as much as $100 off my shopping just by activating email deals.
Rae
24th Feb 2018
8:43am
Yes I greatly dislike the 2 to save as well. I've started going without because it annoys me so much.
HS
23rd Feb 2018
11:31am
The only reason for the Government to monitor gambling habits is to monitor how much they can earn out of it. The Government approves licensed gambling because the Government depends on the revenue it gets out of it. It doesn't give a 'rats a*se" if gambling sends gamblers and their families into financial ruin. The message, "gamble responsibly" is meaningless.
TREBOR
23rd Feb 2018
12:47pm
Correct.
Linda
23rd Feb 2018
11:37am
I am retired except for caring for my partner 24/7. So not really. I don't gamble. However the government has forced me to gamble on my nest egg by ensuring that the shares market figures in to my retirement resources. We live in the hands of crooked banks and crooked political people all seem to be very curious about where all the money is and how they can tap into the big supply. Those pokie machines are a blight on our society. I am disappointed that there are so many ways to gamble and so few ways to make a decent return on funds saved for retirement. I am disappointed because our young folks are being frozen out of the market to own a home so a few can make a packet out of the current laws that make property speculation so lucrative. Folks having not much else to do, is a sign that we are starved for rich community life that has the purpose of enriching us all. ABC dumbed down, adult education mostly gone, and chances to participate in society curtailed by not making the most of what older, retired people have to offer society. Yep, not happy here. We could do so much better for ourselves.
Rae
23rd Feb 2018
12:27pm
Yes Linda very true.
TREBOR
23rd Feb 2018
12:48pm
Here you go..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbvquHSPJU

It's legit....
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
2:43pm
Ah, but Linda, forms of gambling that benefit the rich and privileged are good. In fact, they should be compulsory. Ask OG! He'll tell you People who were hurt by the assets test should be investing at much higher risk - getting 10% return or more - and people with nothing but a pension must be condemned to present an Indue card wherever they want to spend a dollar so that they have neither freedom nor self-respect, let alone hope of saving and lifting themselves up in society. The stinking tall poppies make the rules to benefit themselves. Heaven forbid that anyone should dare to suggest that the battlers in our society deserve respect and the right of self-determination in their lives.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:33pm
Their right to self determination in their lives has failed OGR.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
4:28pm
Says who, vile old man? Who did what to forfeit their right of self-determination. The vast majority of pensioners are responsible, ethical, decent people. Self-interested scum with no respect, making VILE ASSUMPTIONS and telling lies are denying them their right of self-determination. The only failures are the vile disgusting morons who fail to show respect.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
4:59pm
You could have fooled me OGR.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
6:06pm
That's because you ARE A FOOL who has no interest in facts or truth, only in condemning, denigrating, and wishing hurt on others.
VeryCaringBigBear
24th Feb 2018
7:30am
If welfare is being spent on not what it was given to be spent on then action is required. I would gladly accept the welfare card myself as it will make no difference to me. I see it as no different than using any other sort of card for shopping. I can't remember last time I used cash except for a dollar coin for an ALDI trolley. Just keep a couple in the car.
HS
24th Feb 2018
1:21pm
Which begs the question. 5-8 people win Saturday lotto regularly every week. It's a national lottery. But so is OZ lotto and only 1 or none people win every week but not 5-8 people. Never. Same lot of 45 numbers. Are the draws manipulated by the operators? Mind boggles !
HS
24th Feb 2018
1:39pm
Poker machines are programmed to give free spins at certain times of the day and/ or once the house percentage of revenue is reached. Have you ever noticed how a number of poker machines give players a free spin virtually at the same time as the others? Usually, when the poker room is busy with players? That's programmed like that to entice players to keep feeding the machines. The time of the day for a major jackpot to go off is usually set when there are least players around. If not won then the clock reset itself.
I have seen poker machine technicians lineup the reels for a major pay. Not sure what that means. But I remember ( 20 years ago ) the triangular line set up for a win playing 5 lines. As not many players play the lower amounts but play the higher amounts. That machine was set up to suck players in. The major prize sat if you played 5 cents not the 20 cents. Poker machines are manipulated. It's no different to horse race or greyhound doping or crooked jockeys.
Raphael
24th Feb 2018
7:24pm
How have your shares fared Linda
Are you getting reasonable dividends as well as capital gains ?
Grateful
23rd Feb 2018
11:45am
"Should welfare recipients be monitored by the government"??
Too right they should.
If you can afford to gamble excessively, you obviously don't live below the poverty line as nearly all age pensioners who receive the full rate of pension are forced to do.
I'd like to see how many of those gamblers receive a "part pension" and obviously not NEEDING that payment.
It highlights the essential discussion on what is the age pension paid for, an entitlement, or a genuine welfare payment for the genuine needy in the community.
TREBOR
23rd Feb 2018
12:49pm
No -they are not vassals of the state.
TREBOR
23rd Feb 2018
12:49pm
'The power of the province government stops at the village gates.'

- Vietnamese saying..
Tib
23rd Feb 2018
1:20pm
I agree Trebor. Once the pension was a right then it's a handout to the poor. And now some people think the government should be able to tell them what they can spend it on.
VeryCaringBigBear
24th Feb 2018
7:33am
More like the government has been forced to find ways of making people spend their welfare responsibly as many fail to do do under the current system.
Tib
24th Feb 2018
1:35pm
Verycaringbear it's not the governments job to make people spend their money responsibly. And no matter what anyone does fools and their money will soon be parted.
Concerned
23rd Feb 2018
11:46am
So it seems it is not the people who have been placed unwillingly on the Indue card. Most of the gamblers are in full time employment. Better put them in income management.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
11:56am
All on welfare should be placed on the Injune card.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
12:00pm
There should be limit on how much people can put through the pokies a day.

On a cruise ship recently and those who didn't have a valid credit card attached to their on board account were not allowed to buy anything or gamble in the casino. If that doesn't tempt people to overspend I don't know what does. Many now gamble in the ships casinos to get the free or nearly free cruises which are designed to entice them back to gamble even more money.
TREBOR
23rd Feb 2018
12:52pm
Right twice in one day, Ebergeezer - we'll ignore the rest of your neo-Fascist fantasies about government uberkontrol and konzentrationslageren for dissident gamblers .... just for today.

Give every person an ID card, and machine doesn't work without it, and ensure that there is a limit to their pokie spending in the club.
Triss
23rd Feb 2018
2:22pm
OG do a bit of research and change the record http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-02/cashless-welfare-trial-costing-taxpayers-$10k-per-participant/8488268
As with most welfare practices the main beneficiaries will be those that provide it and the lowly recipients will feel the shame and guilt. This card will take away any kind of pleasure in life causing depression and ill health, the health costs will be greater than any cash saved by this inhumane treatment.
Why stop at a cashless card? Why not put a collar around their necks with a chip in like dog so when they have to go into a shop or supermarket they bow their heads and the cashier can point a remote at them which records their purchases. Really OG some of your beliefs are cruel and discriminatory.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:20pm
Me thinks I have heard all those arguments before. Let's see. It was when they stopped printing cheques and mailing them and put welfare into bank accounts instead. Such an outcry about having to open a bank account.
TREBOR
23rd Feb 2018
3:37pm
I meant that on a club basis - walk in the door, front the pokie counter and get your limit card - only that card will allow the operation of the machine(s) and it has a limit.
VeryCaringBigBear
24th Feb 2018
7:38am
The day is coming where we will have no need for money or cards of any kind or even mobiles to pay for things.. We will be microchipped which will be used to pay for our stuff. Yes we will also be able to be found and tracked like lost dogs.
simo
23rd Feb 2018
12:06pm
90 % of poeple i see in pubs and clubs are women . There some guys too . Anyone that complains about government taxes on machines , problem solved -dont use them. Where do governments get the money to pay welfare
TREBOR
23rd Feb 2018
1:21pm
That's because they live longer than we do..... and inherit the earth after we're under it... house, super, cars, everything.... sell up and move to an oceanfront suburb that's cheaper than the Big Cit... and pokies are your best friend on a cold lonely night.........
Triss
23rd Feb 2018
12:16pm
Here we go again, elder abuse. Headline words, retirees and biggest gamblers. The survey doesn’t indicate that. Retirees only make up 25 percent of gamblers.
Rae
23rd Feb 2018
12:43pm
It does appear we have a lot of groups in Australia bent on making everyone toe their line. Perhaps a stamp down on people who interfere in other people's business would be in order.

I'm always skeptical about those throwing the first stone and wonder what faults of their own they really are trying to hide.

Obviously the welfare sector is in their sights and will be until they can get the deals over the line with Serco. There is money to be made in those deals. Lots of money.
TREBOR
23rd Feb 2018
1:24pm
Ein Reich! Ein Volk! Ein Pokermachinen!

I think you're right about Serco and the big deals coming through.... where is the Opposition on this one - or will this 'government' sign up to a contract with punitive payment clauses in the event of resumption of once public services and utilities, as they always do?

This kind of deal should be outlawed retrospectively.

Unfortunately all of our 'political parties' are sellouts and globalists.
Gammer
23rd Feb 2018
12:42pm
Sadly, my dad who is nearly 93 years old, has lost lots of money playing the pokies at Crown Casino here in Perth. He is entirely dependent on the aged pension and has tried to stay away but the lure/hope of winning keeps dragging him back... He tells us when he walks away a winner (usually just a few hundred up) but I hate to think just how many thousands have been lost, little by little!! I refuse to go as I don’t want to get sucked in but for some old folk it’s also an ‘outing’ where they are surrounded by and in the company of lots of people.
Rae
23rd Feb 2018
12:52pm
If it makes him happy it's no worse than spending on other indulgences such as travel, books, movies, eating out, clothes, cars etc.

I know guys who buy a new car every 3 years. Loses thousands on depreciation and no one thinks it wasteful.

I've a friend who spends thousands on a garden. Another trades on small cap stocks.

I lost hundreds of thousands providing the family with a working farm that was a money pit when I could have bought bank shares instead and been really rich. I'd do exactly the same again if given another chance. The experiences were worth more than money can buy.

Just love your dad. None of it matters in the end. What remains are the memories and the love.
TREBOR
23rd Feb 2018
1:26pm
Farmer wins $20m in Lotto, and the newsies ask what he's going to do with it...

He replies: "Oh - I s'pose I'll just keep farming until it's all gone."
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
2:46pm
Gee I would rather a new car every 3 years than playing the one armed bandits as it's so much more fun showing off one's new wheels.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
2:52pm
So everyone should be FORCED to live as you choose to, OG? I'd rather see YOUR freedom taken away than that of nicer people.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:18pm
What are you going to do? Have me locked up because I can look after myself and my own finances? Or for not spending an adequate amount of money? Now you are simply being silly.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
3:29pm
Can't read, OG! I said you should be locked up for prying into other people's private affairs and harassing them. You can't obtain all that personal data you claim to possess without breaking the law that protects people's right to privacy and to not be followed about and stared at by perverts.

But yes, if I had my way, pigs who wish hurt on others for merely being less wealthy would be locked up - or put in stocks so the people they abuse can throw rotten tomatoes at them. Only the lowest forms of life want to see others denigrated and deprived of their freedom.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:38pm
Gosh I am being locked up for noticing things instead of walking around with my eyes glued to a mobile phone.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
3:40pm
Nothing to do with noticing or mobile phones. Spying and prying and harassing is ILLEGAL as well as being a very low act engaged in only by scum.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:47pm
Since when was it illegal to people watch. I find it actually helps pass the time when waiting. One picks up a person's mannerisms and can then work out what sort of life they lead. You should try it.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
3:53pm
The information you claim to glean cannot be obtained from people-watching, OG. You SPY and HARASS. You admitted having people steal mail for you!
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:59pm
Now you are hallucinating OGR.
Nan Norma
23rd Feb 2018
5:59pm
At 93 that's probably one of the few pleasures he has left.
Puglet
23rd Feb 2018
12:47pm
Many years ago a boyfriend who was a mathematician and statistician told me the odds of winning anything by gambling in any form in words I could understand. I therefore don’t gamble. It astounds me that so many older people spend huge amounts buying lotto tickets - it is just another form of gambling. I thought bingo was pretty harmless - is there big stakes gambling there too? Gosh!
Tib
23rd Feb 2018
1:32pm
I haven't seen the numbers but I would guess that pokies and scratch tickets would be the most spent on on a person by person basics. While lotto tickets get the most money but usually small amounts by a lot of people. But someone else might have data proving otherwise.
Puglet
23rd Feb 2018
1:46pm
I don’t have precise numbers either. I do know that governments depend on the income derived from scratchies, lotto to bolster their coffers. Over the years I have given a lot of money to the tax department and refuse to pay them any more with sneaky taxes. Similarly the Packers are rich without my contributions.
Tib
23rd Feb 2018
2:14pm
Yes I think the tax department should throw me a little parade, but very little was paid in gambling tax. :)
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
4:03pm
Odds of winning lotto.

If you have to pick 6 numbers form 44 to win.

so you have 1 chance in 44 for first number, 1 chance in 43 for second number etc.

So to win with all 6 numbers you have one chance in

44 x 43 x 42 x 41 x 40 x 39.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
6:03pm
Mathematically incorrect, actually, OG. Clearly you've never studied odds. For some reason I can't explain, numbers within a certain range come up more than 80% of the time, and numbers outside a certain range very seldom ever appear. So the odds are not as you claim at all. Not that I care, because I've never been tempted to play. But I take an interest in facts.
VeryCaringBigBear
23rd Feb 2018
9:17pm
Even 1 chance in 44 is too higher odds for me to play lotto. More helpful to give it to some one for a treat.
Tib
23rd Feb 2018
9:55pm
Whatever the chances of winning lotto are it's very low. Having 1000 tickets doesn't improve your chances much over one ticket. So I buy one ticket , not a quick pick just the minimum number of games. Usually just costs me a couple of dollars , chance of winning is very low but risk is also very low. So if I get lucky and win 20 million for $2 then great and if I don't who cares.:)
Tib
23rd Feb 2018
9:59pm
By the way that $2 is my attempt at frivolous behaviour, could be much worse I could be addicted to shoes. Ha ha
VeryCaringBigBear
24th Feb 2018
7:42am
My mother used to play Keno with 3 or 4 numbers and would win regularly. It was when I read the rules I worked out that the chances of winning are the greatest with the minimum number of numbers. Whether she worked this out from the rules or otherwise I will never know.
Raphael
24th Feb 2018
7:29pm
Rainey —as usual you spew stuff with no understanding
OG’s calculation is correct

In addition to being a left wing loonie you also beilove in new age crap looks like
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
11:12am
Raphael, you are showing gross ignorance. Like OG, you obviously have ZERO understanding of the odds. Just as you have ZERO comprehension, since I have NEVER made ANY comment that suggested I was ''left wing''. In fact, I lean more toward the right, though I detest both sides.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
11:18am
So what are you suggesting lotto is rigged like everything else to do with gambling? Mathematically I have stated the odds of winning lotto. If the odd are different then all things are not equal.
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
2:26pm
No, OG. I'm not saying Lotto is rigged. I'm saying if you study chance you find that the mathematical computation most subscribe to doesn't work reliably. It's like throwing a coin. You think you have a 50/50 chance of it coming down heads, but study reveals it does NOT come down heads 50% of the time. You obviously HAVEN'T studied the mathematical odds or you would know that certain numbers hardly ever come up and numbers in particular ranges appear much more often than they statistically should. That's just a fact.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
2:45pm
Well I might just study what numbers haven't come up and pick them because I will have a much greater chance on winning.
Retired Knowall
26th Feb 2018
2:57pm
Sorry OG and Raphael, OG's calculations are not correct. if you multiply 44 x 43 x 42 x 41 x 40 x 39 you get 5,082,517,440 but because the numbers don't have to be in the correct order the number of sequence variations of the 6 numbers is 720. therefor the above number is divided by 720 to give you odds of 7,059,052.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
3:20pm
Those odds are still too big for me to play lotto.
Old Man
23rd Feb 2018
12:48pm
Is this a tactic to be used by the Fun Police? I have no issue with people spending their money on something which gives a little pleasure in their lives. I do, however, agree that those receiving welfare who are gambling, drinking and/or taking drugs to the detriment of those in their care should be given a credit card type system which may ensure that the dependents are assisted.
TREBOR
23rd Feb 2018
12:55pm
Correct, as long as it is not carte blanche for a total government control - something to be avoided at all costs as history tells us so clearly.

The rights of government are limited to guidance of the nation and its people..... not the absolute rule of it and them.

There is a clear limit to The Divine Right Of Elected Government..... and that is the latest battleground in the Perpetual Civil War Between Government and People.... (both theses of mine posted elsewhere)...
PlanB
23rd Feb 2018
1:12pm
No way can I understand gambling -- and from what I have seen of pokies -- what a bloody BORE! I have never been into gambling -- never had a bet on a horse -- and never buy any tickets of any kind --- I know a bloke that spends all his money on gambling -- what a darn waste he has reached the age of 55 and had NOTHING and when he gets paid -- has always be paid great money -- it is gone in a few days. Don't they know the chances of THEM winning is extremely low and what a boring life.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
1:27pm
Insurance is gambling too. It is a gamble that if you lose you win.
PlanB
23rd Feb 2018
2:02pm
Yes OG but can't afford not to have it
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
2:32pm
I've studied it, PlanB. Poker machines are designed to be addictive. The sounds and lights are carefully structured to make people want more. And psychologists know that most gamblers WANT to lose. Wining actually upsets them and they will plunge it all back into losing bets or spend it very quickly. It's a form of depression and expression of their lack of self-worth. They DO know the chances of winning are extremely low. And yes, it's a boring life. But they don't know how to live fulfilling lives and they don't have the psychological capacity to pursue wins in any form. They typically believe they don't deserve to be winners or to have a quality life. Of course there are exceptions, but that's the typical chronic or excessive gambler's psyche. You will find many have very unhappy relationships and unfulfilling jobs. Note that the survey says they are generally not well educated. That may suggest they lacked the intelligence to continue to higher education, or that they were very disadvantaged. Either way, they are likely to feel devalued and inadequate.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
2:43pm
If that's the case the welfare card is way over due then as obviously they are not making wise choices with their welfare money.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
2:49pm
OG, we are talking about a tiny minority of people who have a problem. And the welfare card won't help them. They will find ways around it, as alcoholics and chronic gamblers are doing now. They are selling their card; beating their wives to force them to hand over cash; and committing crime. Of course the government doesn't reveal that, because they only tell what supports their perverted cause. Go and live in these communities for a while and see what real life is like.

The vast majority of welfare recipients are capable and responsible, and only a vile disgusting moron wishes hurt on them on the basis of his politically-motivated fantasies.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:03pm
Unfortunately those few who have a problem will create change for everyone. Haven't you noticed minority groups and what they want are far more important today than what the majority?

If you do the right thing then you have nothing at all to worry about.
PlanB
23rd Feb 2018
3:06pm
All I know Rainy is when I have been in the room with them they drive me mad and I never go back to that are if I can't get away from them to have a meal, beats me how anyone can stand there and have them making a noise.
True what you have said about them not having a life though, as the ones I have known have never had any interests at all.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
3:25pm
PlanB, it's that same noise and lights that drive you mad that have been proven to be addictive to those who are affected in other ways by certain types of sensory input. We don't all get hooked on alcohol or drugs, either, but some people have a predisposition and all it takes, in some instances, is a taste. I know someone who became an alcoholic after being given Formula 44 cough medicine (which contains a strong alcohol content). Part of predisposition is low socio-economic status, poor education, frustration either in unsatisfying work or poor quality relationships, excessive stress, and especially a low sense of self-worth. But part of it is just biological/genetic. Have you noticed that addiction often runs in families? That of course raises the age-old nature vs nurture question, but scientists have identified specific genetic markers in addicts.

If only society would pay attention to the causes of problems and work to solve them instead of always claiming to be ''holier than though'' and using persecution and condemnation as the only acceptable tool for social reform, we would live in a far better world.

The problem, of course, is that it's all about pandying to the vested interests of the privileged. Nobody ever wants to fix the problems. They just get their kicks from slandering and wishing hurt on others. Just read the comments here and you see that I'm right.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:35pm
Gosh they must be also drunk to have that din turn them on.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
3:36pm
Keep showing your gross ignorance, OG. You really do look like a nasty, illogical, inept old fool with your dumb remarks
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:48pm
Now who is being the bully?
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
3:52pm
Just speaking out for the decent folk you abuse and bully constantly with your wild and baseless ASSUMPTIONS and presumption of entitlement to dictate how everyone else lives.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
4:53pm
They are hardly decent folk who continually whinge about how bad life is for them. The more you give them the more than want. I'd call that selfish not decent.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
5:32pm
The people your slander are decent. The whinging is all in your fantasizing head. The only whingers who are selfish and not satisfied are you and your rich mates who constantly harp about wanting pensions cut.
Rae
24th Feb 2018
9:21am
" If you do the right thing you have nothing to worry about"

That is exactly what most Germans though in 1933 as the fascists rose in Germany. They were "conservatives" so they must have been alright hey.

Just do what they say . What could possibly go wrong.
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
11:17am
300,000 retirees did the right thing, and now they have to worry over having their incomes slashed. But if they do the WRONG thing, their incomes will be restored.

Some people here have weird logic, or just go through life blindfolded. As a friend once said, 90% of the population is unconscious. That's why the Germans got away with what they did. All those unconscious fools saying ''if you do the right thing..."
Retired Knowall
26th Feb 2018
6:01pm
There are between 80 000 and 160 000 Australian adults suffering significant problems from their gambling (0.5 to 1.0 per cent of adults), with a further 230 000 to 350 000 experiencing moderate risks that may make them vulnerable to problem gambling (1.4 to 2.1 per cent of adults).
OnlyGenuineRainey
27th Feb 2018
4:37pm
And many of them are NOT on welfare. So where do the disgusting narcissists here get off demanding EVERYONE on welfare suffer denigration and deprivation because MAYBE 1 - 1.5% of the entire population are wasting welfare money gambling? Sick!
Raphael
23rd Feb 2018
2:30pm
More proof that the pension is adequate
These people don’t know what to do with their surplus - so they blow it on gambling and alcohol
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
2:35pm
What a load of crap, Raphael! Mean people will clutch at any straw to justify calls for increased meanness and persecution of the downtrodden.

The pension isn't enough to fund a qualify lifestyle if you have no other income - and especially if you don't own a home. Some folk will gamble out of pure desperation, hoping a win will solve their problems. Addicts will give up even the barest essentials to fund their habit. A minority who have a problem DOES NOT evidence that the vast majority are receiving more than is reasonable. Quite the opposite is the fact.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
2:40pm
I agree if people have money to gamble then the pension is more than adequate.
Raphael
23rd Feb 2018
2:49pm
Sure Rainey - you stick to your B/s and I’ll stick to the the obvious that’s staring everyone in their faces

The pension is more Thant sufficient to live a modest basic lifestyle for most
Those who can’t live on it are just don’t want to budget and live within their means
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
2:51pm
The FACTS as evidenced by survey after survey, PROVE CONCLUSIVELY THAT YOU ARE WRONG, RAPHAEL. Pity you aren't forced to try and survive on it with no access to more in any form.
Raphael
23rd Feb 2018
2:58pm
Surveys run by lobby and interest groups are meaningless
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:00pm
What people say in surveys tends to be a lot different from reality. Of course they will say how bad it is as they want more. That's human nature. I did some calculations and I actually live on less than the OAP myself. It aint that hard to do.
Raphael
23rd Feb 2018
3:02pm
What the survey doesn’t tell you is how much those claiming not to cope spend on grog ciggies gambling gifts holidays etc
Raphael
23rd Feb 2018
3:05pm
I’m the same OG
Spend less than the pension and that’s includes a few bottles of wine a week
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:15pm
The only time people admit to gambling is when they have hit rock bottom and need help.

ALDI has a nice drop for $5 a bottle. I also buy their port and store it for about a year and it's awesome. I also make my own brew in the citrus season as well as jams and chutneys. Got a batch of tomato relish cooking now.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
3:26pm
That's right, OG. Make it ALL ABOUT YOU AGAIN. Can't have a sensible discussion. You either make it a personal boast or a bigoted attack on others.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:36pm
So if I can do it why can't others?
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
3:39pm
Why can't others what? In the Australia I live in, personal freedom is valued. We are permitted to make our own choices. We are not compelled to do the bidding of one nasty old egomaniacal moron who thinks he's God Almighty.

Most of us live very responsibly - many far more so than you, OG. Put a sock in it! Learn to have some respect for human rights for a change.
TREBOR
23rd Feb 2018
3:41pm
Choice-mobile, son - that's what it's all about...... if you can choose one or more of sixty three genders, why can't you choose one or more of countless ways of choosing to live?

Get back to your chutney.... I'm busy watching my banana trees grow after the recent rain....
Raphael
23rd Feb 2018
3:52pm
Rainey is showing her true colors
It’s not about the pension being sufficient for me or OG or millions of others .
If one person chooses to live a lifestyle over and above the lie pension entitlement , Rainey believes they should have more
Why ?
Because Rainey thinks people should be allowed to live the way they want - ON TAXPAYER MONEY
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
3:53pm
You nailed it Raphael.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
4:23pm
You are demonstrating appallingly poor comprehension, Raphael. Or just dreaming up garbage - and making yourself look a very nasty fool.

The issue is nothing to do with the pension being sufficient for some. It IS for those who are privileged enough to enjoy certain benefits - good health being one! It is NOT for many who have very genuine needs for very genuine reasons. It's nothing to do with CHOOSING to live a lifestyle above the pension entitlement. Some don't have the luxury of choice, due to past crisis, health issues, care needs, etc.

I have NEVER EVEN HINTED that people should be allowed to live as they want on taxpayer money. That's a malicious lie, Raphael. But we handout to all kinds of people for all kinds of causes - valid and invalid; fair and unfair; and I, personally, have had a gut full of people constantly attacking the less privileged and unfairly condemning people they know NOTHING about. Most welfare recipients are decent, honest, responsible people, and they deserve respect, and they deserve to retain their personal freedom.

There is only one problem in our society where pensions are concerned and that is that the SYSTEM promotes and rewards waste and abuse. If we all supported a more sensible system that encourages and rewards workers and savers, the whole nation would be better off.
Triss
23rd Feb 2018
4:26pm
Perhaps we ought to turn this on its head, OnGeRainey. Let's say that folk like Raph and OG who don't need the pension have obviously got money surplus to their needs as they insist the pension is well above basic needs. Anyone at age 65 who has any monies over and above the amount of the pension has it taken from them and put into Consolidated Revenue where it can used for good works by the government. What is the term...level playing field, definitely.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
4:30pm
Well, they obviously have way too much, Triss, and OG claims those hit by the assets test had too much and should have it taken from them, so the same rule should apply to OG and Raphael. Sounds fair to me. Take it off them and give it to those who have genuine needs.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
4:43pm
If you have a level playing field where are you going to get the money to pay welfare as those on welfare contribute nothing.
Raphael
23rd Feb 2018
4:50pm
Truss - your Marxist friends tried that in Russia ,China ,and a few other idiotic places and YOU failed. Your idea made everyone poor with no one left to carry the welfare burden

We have a level playing field now - everyone has equal opportunity to succeed and invest and save for retirement
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
5:27pm
Wrong, Raphael. The playing field is far from level. Some are paid extortionate wages for doing sweet stuff all - or even destroying other people's lives and businesses - and the government gives them massive tax concessions and even grants in some cases to build huge retirement funds; while others work their guts out for a lifetime for a miserable pittance but are then kicked in the teeth for daring to save and try to be partly self-sufficient. If you think that's anything like ''level'', you are a dumb fool.

Some are born with wealth. Some are born with huge opportunity, great education, skills training. Others are born to poor families, incarcerated in institutions or foster homes where they are hideously abused and deprived, kicked out into the workforce at barely 15 with nothing ore than the clothes they wear and nobody to turn to for help. Some are born with disability or inherit genetic conditions that destroy their health.

Anyone who claims everyone has equal opportunity is a blind, deaf, dumb fool or a blatant liar.

No Marxist EVER tried to create a level playing field, Raphael. The Marxists deliberately created a feudal system where their mates were filthy rich and everyone else was a poor peasant. There was NEVER any intention to strive for equality. That was a huge lie to con the population.

And OG, those on welfare for the most part contributed more over their lifetime than any of the self-serving egotistical pigs who exploit and plunder and dodge tax obligations and then beat their chests and sing their own praises.
Raphael
23rd Feb 2018
5:40pm
Oh dear . For me to educate you on equality of opportunity and how capitalist systems help create a better playing field for the disadvantaged would take me the rest of the day

I have to go out - having a nice Japanese meal and some bubbly

You should take a Valium and have a lie down my dear

You’re getting all worked up for the wrong reason - mainly your misguided understanding on welfare and how the unfortunate in society should be helped

Your bashing of those you see as well off though shrieks if lefty looney politics of envy
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
5:52pm
I'm not bashing the well off, Raphael. I'm objecting to the stinking vile egomaniacal well-to-do constantly bashing the less fortunate, based on FALSE JUDGEMENTS.

And I understand the capitalist system very well. But I also know a great deal about INEQUALITY and how the capitalist system perpetrates it to the advantage of the wealthy. It may be the best system we've devised so far, but it's damned cruel to those born on the wrong side of the tracks.
VeryCaringBigBear
23rd Feb 2018
9:26pm
If you understand the capitalist system so well then why have you not used it to create a very comfortable life for yourself and family? I certainly did.
Triss
23rd Feb 2018
11:08pm
Changing people's names and thinking you're funny and clever makes you so boring. I can be just as boring, CRAPael.
VeryCaringBigBear
24th Feb 2018
7:51am
Well I know I came into this world with nothing. Not even a shirt on my back. I then grew up and made choices like everyone else. It is those choices which sort out who prospers and who doesn't. Many fail due to bad choices nothing more. That's why people who win lotto end up worse off than they were before they won.
Raphael
24th Feb 2018
4:00pm
Triss - my phone autocorrected your name . My apologies
I don’t resort to insults only healthy debate
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
11:37am
BigBear, you are showing your ignorance here. Of course people fail due to bad choices. They also struggle due to not being presented with acceptable choices, for whatever reason. And some struggle because they are deprived of the opportunity to learn how to make good choices. Those who win lotto and end up worse off are among the latter category. In many cases, they deserve compassion rather than denigration, because making good choices is like doing anything else - at some point, people have to learn how. Those who grow up in good homes with sound guidance, or who find a good mentor may learn almost unconsciously, but they DO LEARN.

This simplistic nonsense blaming everyone for their circumstances by waffling about making ''choices'' is socially harmful and grossly dishonest.

I was lucky to have a strong mentor and good guidance, and that enabled me to rise above major disadvantage. But my choices were very often limited by unfortunate circumstances. There often just weren't any good options available. For those who don't learn to choose well, such circumstances result in a generational cycle. What we need to do, if we are to have a healthy society, is to stop denigrating people and start understanding and helping. The surest way to guarantee that people will make bad choices is to tell them they are not capable of making good ones. When you destroy a person's self-esteem, you condemn them to failure. That's why the welfare card is such a bad thing. The denigration guarantees that people will never have the confidence to strive to learn and improve.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
12:36pm
More evidence of your limiting mindset OGR.
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
2:18pm
BTW, BigBear. You lie. Sorry. NOBODY, BUT NOBODY comes into the world with nothing. It's not possible. You had a mother. Her education, skills, knowledge, abilities, character, social status, material wealth, and the care she gave you were SOMETHING. You probably had a father. His education, skills, knowledge, abilities, character, social status, material wealth, and the care he gave you were SOMETHING. A vast number of choices were made FOR YOU before you ever made one for yourself - choices over which you had no control but that greatly influenced your ability to make good choices later and the options made available for you to choose from later.

But keep lying to yourself. Like OG, your arrogance and dishonesty is offensive, but understandable given your obviously privileged start in life by comparison with those you dishonestly denigrate. Just please don't be stupid enough to think you fool the good people here who are intelligent enough to distinguish fact and reality from airy-fairy egomaniacal dreams.
Knows-a-lot
23rd Feb 2018
4:15pm
Small wonder pensioners gamble: they cannot get by on the pittance they receive from the government.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
4:45pm
If they can't get by then how can they have surplus funds to gamble away? Or is it a case of gamble first and ask for charity to live.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
5:13pm
Why can't you just mind your own business, OG, and stop playing God. How they get their money and what they do with it is THEIR business. Nothing to do with you.
Raphael
23rd Feb 2018
5:19pm
Rainey - you’re so full of hate that you cannot even respond logically to a perfectly legitimate Question posed by OG
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
5:30pm
It's not a logical question, Raphael. Those who can't get by DON'T GAMBLE, except for the small handful who gamble first and THEN can't get by as a result. And they need help, not condemnation or bullying.

I am not full of hate, but I am sick of the hatred and nastiness demonstrated by the self-appointed moral police who condemn people without grounds and without having the faintest clue how others live, but purely based on selfish, bigoted, nasty assumptions.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
5:39pm
OGR you have just described yourself to a tee.
Raphael
23rd Feb 2018
5:43pm
BINGO OG :))

I must be off -,champagne and teppanyaki awaits
tactful
23rd Feb 2018
4:45pm
How about everyone take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS.
Yes, I was yelling that.
I am sick to death of people shirking their own responsibilities and putting the blame on Government.
If you have a gambling addiction it is YOUR FAULT, YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to not head into a gambling venue.
Brissiegirl, the codeine abuse is far greater than you think. Bad period pains, ordinary paracetamol along with a hotwater bottle to the back works wonders.
tactful
23rd Feb 2018
4:45pm
How about everyone take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS.
Yes, I was yelling that.
I am sick to death of people shirking their own responsibilities and putting the blame on Government.
If you have a gambling addiction it is YOUR FAULT, YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to not head into a gambling venue.
Brissiegirl, the codeine abuse is far greater than you think. Bad period pains, ordinary paracetamol along with a hotwater bottle to the back works wonders.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
4:50pm
Agree no one forces anyone to go to the gambling den.

It was about time something was done about codeine abuse as well. Someone on the OAP would be very unlikely to have period pain.

If people got a bit more exercise then they wouldn't need any medication for joints that have ceased up due to lack of use.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
5:12pm
The man who thinks he's God is at it again. Now he presumes to dictate who needs pain relief and claim to be all-knowing about why.
Shut the hell up you nasty would-be dictator.

Tactful is right. Let people be PERSONALLY responsible for their lives and stop trying to tell everyone else how to live. It's none of your damned business OG. And you don't have the right to declare who should or shouldn't get a pension, much less what they are entitled to do with it.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
5:27pm
I guess only you do OGR then.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
5:31pm
No, and I don't claim to. I merely condemn those who claim the right to perpetrate cruelty and injustice.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
5:38pm
Well stop bullying others just because they have a different opinion or take on your own beliefs.

I certainly wouldn't want to live in a world full of people like you OGR as it would be so annoying and frustrating getting any thing done without offending some precious little soul. It would be simply awful living in a world where if you were even a bit successful you would be punished for doing it. Talk about a degenerative society full of people who give nothing but take everything from others.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
5:49pm
Good grief, OG! YOU are the one wanting to punish people for being a little successful, not me! I'm plugging for hard work and saving to be REWARDED and for people to be encouraged and empowered to succeed.

YOU are the one wanting everyone torn down unless they are rich and privileged. And YOU are the one wanting a society full of takers. When people are allowed to retain the benefit of their hard work, they are ABLE to give. You want a world where people are rewarded for manipulating and ''playing games'' that hurt society.

As for offending... I don't care who is offended by doing what's GOOD for the nation and the majority. I care about stuffing it up with GREED AND SELFISHNESS, which is precisely what you promote.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
5:52pm
OGR you envy astounds me sometimes.
OnlyGenuineRainey
23rd Feb 2018
6:01pm
Never envied anyone, OG. Just despise nasty bullying egomaniacs who get off on lying about and hurting others.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
11:56am
Could of fooled me then.
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
12:01pm
Easy to fool fools, OG.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
12:26pm
Agree since I'm certainly no fool.
OnlyGenuineRainey
27th Feb 2018
4:41pm
You were fooled, so obviously you ARE a fool. A very big fool, actually.
tactful
23rd Feb 2018
6:21pm
OldGeezer, you sound like someone who never bothered to take responsibility for your retirement.
My hubby and I did and we unfortunately get a small top up Age Pension Payment.
Yes we raised kids, did the hard yards, went without so that we could look after ourselves the best we could in our retirement.
We choose not to play pokies, bet on the horses/dogs/trots, take lotto tickets, this self controlled spending will put us in the red.
Those who have an addiction know it, if they choose not to address their addiction it is their problem and no one elses.
Society today lacks people taking personal responsibility for their actions, no one can force you to do anything, only the week willed cave in.
So I guess you may fall into the woe is me, it i some else fault and I take no responsibility for my actions.
You are disgusting really.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
7:04pm
No I took no responsibility for my retirement. Funny that I have ended up being a fully self funded retiree who doesn't even qualify for a health care card.

I guess it is disgusting that I am now retired and still paying income tax instead of collecting welfare. It would therefore be even more disgusting if more people were like me and the welfare budget was far less than it is today.

Yes a drag up kids too along the way and it is equally disgusting that they are now better off than I ill ever be. Hopefully I'll live to see my grandkids do the same.

So yes I am disgusting as I succeeded where others failed.
Old Geezer
23rd Feb 2018
7:05pm
Yes I do have an addiction and that is I hate being idle.
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
11:14am
You have NOT succeeded, OG. You have no idea what ''success'' means. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH MONEY.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
11:28am
I have had more success than many have in 10 lifetimes and others admire me for my successes in many aspects of my life. I am way too busy not be successful.
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
11:38am
You are DELUDED, OG. You have NOT had any success. To succeed, you have to be HUMAN. You have to have respect for others, and have empathy and compassion.

YOU FAIL DISMALLY IN EVERY REGARD.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
11:42am
Your envy OGR is amazing and is made worse by the fact that you judge people by their bank accounts without even seeing the they are even better people than you will ever be.
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
11:56am
OG, the first test of a successful person is their attitude to those they regard as less successful than themselves. Those who denigrate or speak contemptuously of people for having less or seemingly achieving less, or who wish hurt or hardship on others, are FAILURES by definition.

If you were successful, you would certainly NEVER want a
''welfare card'' to be introduced. You would NEVER have endorsed pension changes that hurt people with moderate savings. You would NEVER make judgemental statements accusing people of wastefulness or mismanagement or incompetence or laziness. All of your statements in that regard expose you as a DISMAL FAILURE.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
12:06pm
All your arguments are the same ones that were voiced when welfare wanted to change form mailing cheque to putting welfare in bank accounts. Now putting welfare in bank accounts is abused by many then change is necessary. Anyone that is spending their welfare money how it was intended to be spent will not have a problem with the welfare card. It is only those who abuse their welfare money that will have to change their ways.

The welfare card is coming to all those on welfare so get used to it.
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
2:32pm
Civil war will come first, so get used to that, OG. The population DOES NOT WANT to denigrate everyone who needs a pension and condemn them to permanent welfare-reliance by limiting their freedom to plan, save, and work their way up in the world.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
3:02pm
No civil war is a long way off as people have so good these days. If they want freedom to plan, save, and work their way up in the world the solution is to get a job. If you are retired then you failed to plan for a good retirement.
OnlyGenuineRainey
27th Feb 2018
4:40pm
Maybe you missed that part about most current retirees not having access to super, paying 18%+ on their home loans, and in many cases having less than a decade of schooling? It's not a matter of failing to plan for retirement. It's a matter of the system NOT ALLOWING LOWER PAID WORKERS ANY SCOPE TO PLAN. They were paying tax to fund retirement - but that fund was STOLEN.

And those who did plan were screwed over, in a way you approve of.

You really are a nasty piece of work, OG. Totally inhuman and lacking in even an ounce of decency.
heemskerk99
23rd Feb 2018
8:26pm
dear oh dear, just came home, helping in the op-shop and here is, by her own words, our hard worker, rainy without an umbrella, spending all afternoon and most of the evening b.s in these columns, either she is telling porkies or we have to feel sorry for her boss paying for that time, as usual rainy will depart from the subject, "25% of retired persons gamble", in her attempt to settle her beef with o.g by attacking his comments using despicable language, his answers always shows his knowledge with the item at hand without being abusive, I do not always agree with o.g but admire him for always being polite and civil with his comments.
also noted that labor mick's miror is now displaying his alias tremor, may I say it is not an improvement, maybe the mask would work
VeryCaringBigBear
23rd Feb 2018
9:23pm
After a great day out shopping with my grand kids I come home and read Raineys comments and it has got me thinking that those unfortunate must have 2 heads, 4 arms and 8 legs. The bullying is getting so bad it is time OGR got a speeding ticket. At least OG keeps them in their rightful place and shows how foolish they are.
Anonymous
25th Feb 2018
6:40pm
heemskerk99 you have made my day summed it up beautifully
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
11:21am
Scum attracts, of course. No surprise to see who agrees with whom and who endorses the hollow and meaningless remarks that do no more than attack and defame.

Heemskerk, I am paid for productivity, not time. And I deliver very good value. As for OG showing knowledge.... OMG! ROFL.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
12:37pm
No one with a job gets paid for productivity. They get paid for their limited time instead.
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
2:29pm
WRONG. I - like many - am paid by the piece produced. That's payment for productivity. It makes no difference to my pay cheque whether I work 1 hour or 100. Sorry you are so ignorant of the ways of the world.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
2:43pm
So you are robbing your employer by not putting in the hours allocated to your job. That sounds dishonest to me.
Retired Knowall
27th Feb 2018
9:18am
You need to get out more OG, I quote for all the work I currently perform as do many if not all other Contractors. My last job was quoted at $127K and was to be completed in 3 weeks. I completed the contract in just over 2.5 weeks. The principal could have requested the work be completed "Do and Charge" on an hourly rate, but they knew it would have cost them more.
Your comment that "No one with a job gets paid for productivity" is manifestly wrong.
OnlyGenuineRainey
27th Feb 2018
4:33pm
Nothing dishonest about taking payment for quality product. The employer doesn't care how long it takes to produce, and neither he should. It's NOT relevant.

You just can't accept that you are WRONG WRONG WRONG and your accusation was patently STUPID, can you?
KB
24th Feb 2018
11:02am
The majority of the population are gamblers whether it is playing the p0kies horse racing l lotto tickets and gambling on the stock market. There should be l no ads regarding lotto and the like. Playing the pokies is addictive and harmful for people and their families. There are problem gamblers which needs to addressed not those who have a once in a while flutter with friends such as Brissiegirl mentions. Maybe older folk go to the pokies because they are lonely and bored and perhaps this is something that needs looking at.
VeryCaringBigBear
24th Feb 2018
3:36pm
There nothing more boring than sitting in a club or pub or cruise ship playing the pokies. The noise alone is enough for me.
Raphael
24th Feb 2018
4:02pm
Yes - and they go to the pokies because they have lots of spare cash from the pension
HS
24th Feb 2018
10:01pm
How people spend their pension is their business, not your concern, it's their consequence they have to face, not you.
It should not concern us that people gamble.
It should concern us that gamblers are taken advantage of by manufacturers of poker machines who programme poker machines for the advantage of the licenced poker machine operator.
It should concern us that horse, greyhound trainers dope horses to lose or to win.
It should concern us that some jockeys mishandle their rides on purpose to lose.
It should concern us that all gambling venues are set up for gamblers to lose most of the time.
In other words, it should concern us that gamblers are given negligible chance of winning big.
That's the sort of advertised warning the government should be applying to every gambling game.
Old Geezer
25th Feb 2018
9:09am
If welfare money is spent badly it costs everyone. Drink driving kills innocent people. Smoking kills loved ones with passive smoke. Drugs inhibit productivity and increase crime. Our hospitals are full of druggies and big hospital now have a separate emergency department for them. Gambling starves kids and charities need more and more to help them out. A person on a poor diet that smokes and drinks has more than double the chance of getting ill and taking up a bed in hospital. It I amazing how many people in hospital smoke and the use of wheelchairs and staff to take them out for a smoke.

So what people do with their welfare should be everyone's business if it impacts on society they way it does when not spent in the way it was given to be spent.
Old Geezer
25th Feb 2018
9:16am
I don't care if horse, dogs etc are doped. I don't care if Casinos play with the odds so they win. I don't care if gambling places are set up so the house wins. I doubt if gamblers do either.

I do care that a person on the road might be drunk and I cold be a victim. I do care that our health service is over run by people who make bad life choices. I do care that my insurance increase because druggie rob houses and for their next fix. I do care the price of goods goes up because people have gambled their money and now need to steal to survive. I do care the streets are longer safe after dark and kids cannot now play safely in a park.

That is why we need a welfare card for all those on welfare including OAPs.
HS
25th Feb 2018
1:55pm
Drink driving kills innocent people. Usually the offenders are aged between 17 to 50. Alcohol advertising entices them to drink. Excessive alcohol drinking causes drivers to be negligent and reckless whether behind the car’s steering wheel or stumbling out of a hotel and punching an innocent bystander they don’t like the look of or whatever their angry frustration deems to be a threat to them.

Our hospitals are also full of alcoholics and drug addicts that cost the taxpayers over few hundred millions of dollars year in year out.. Not to mention the hospital beds they occupy while some really needy patient has to be bedded in the hospital corridor or not admitted to the hospital at all.

Passive smoking doesn’t kill. It may be annoying, irritating but not fatal. Passive smokers do live to the old age of somewhere in their 90’s as do some people who smoked all their past years.

Gambling starves kids and charities need more and more to help them out. Yet, the state governments live off such miseries and the manufacturers of poker machines thrive on their aspirations of how to suck people to gamble more and more of their hard income and people’s welfare income.

What people do with their welfare pensions is none of anyone’s business.

What everyone’s business should be is how the welfare recipients are taken advantage of. How they are cheated and vilified by demented narcissistic critics who just don’t have a clue what life is like being on welfare.
OnlyGenuineRainey
25th Feb 2018
4:33pm
Absolutely right, HS! The demeaning and bullying of welfare recipients is a national disgrace, and the narcissistic and egomaniacal attack on them here is sick and disgusting.

A very small percentage of welfare recipients may be irresponsible and imposing costs on society. Millions of people who are not receiving any kind of pension or government handout are irresponsible and impose massive costs on society. Before we persecute and denigrate welfare recipients and insist on restricting their freedom to spend or save their minimal income as they choose, let's attack the abuse by others that imposes costs on everyone - tax evasion, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, dangerous drsiving, overeating causing health problems, child abuse, spousal abuse, workplace bullying, cheating or manipulating to obtain benefits immorally, white collar crime, corporate fraud, abuse of bureaucratic power, medical negligence or incompetence, overcharging for goods or services, selling faulty goods, careless or incompetent car or appliance repair causing danger... I could go on forever!

The vast majority of pensioners - especially aged pensioners and those on disability benefits - are responsible and perfectly capable of making their own spending and saving decisions without interference from megalomaniacs and dictators and without contributing to the ill-gotten gains of a company that grossly overcharges for a ''service''.

The Indue Card was introduced to make profit for Government buddies. I have no objection to it's very selective use for persons who have been carefully identified as having a significant problem, provided that it is a temporary measure accompanied by counselling and budget coaching and care is taken to ensure it neither restricts appropriate use of funds (securing bargains by digital purchase or at roadside stalls or markets etc or used goods - saving) nor damages self-esteem in a way that exacerbates problems (which is a major risk when people are forced to identify publicly as welfare recipients who are deemed to lack self-control).

What I do have an issue with is the vile and disgraceful demonising of pensioners by - as you so aptly describe them, HS - ''demented narcissistic critics'' whose bullying and lobbying for policies that cause hurt is destroying what was once a great society.
HS
25th Feb 2018
5:48pm
An excellent response OnlyGenuineRainey.
VeryCaringBigBear
25th Feb 2018
6:18pm
Anyone on welfare that spends their money for what it was given to them has nothing to worry about. I would have no problem using the welfare card myself. Bring it in for all those on welfare so that those making bad choices can be given a chance to make better choices.

I have no problem with people who earn their money spending it how they wish but I do have a problem with welfare being used to support addictions and then charities using their limited resources to feed them and their families. It is a national disgrace that this should be happening today when it can be so easily fixed with a welfare card.

I have written to cash is MPS telling them It's time the welfare card was rolled out to all on welfare and I would be delighted to use one myself.
Anonymous
25th Feb 2018
7:00pm
Rainy you certainly write some crapp obviosly a complete loser
Raphael
25th Feb 2018
7:25pm
Rainey - please give it a rest

You sound like a greenie or labor loser who just whats to stir crap up for political gain

Never mind the facts - let's just get the bloke who is well off from living and working responsibly to get ahead
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
11:06am
You mean me, Raphael? Or the people the likes of you and OG are constantly saying should suffer for having saved a moderate amount and now have to either drain their savings for the benefit of others or live on less than the OAP?

I'm not a loser, and I certainly don't support Labor or the Greens. In fact I despise both parties. But I also despise the disgusting and vile creeps who denigrate the less advantaged and lobby for them to suffer hurt unfairly.

It's time you overpaid, over-privileged LNP trolls were put in stocks and made to suffer until you learn how to be DECENT RESPECTFUL HUMAN BEINGS. You have ripped the country off to get rich, and now you want to trample on the people you exploited to get where you are and who pay for the resources you used in your rise.

Hard work? You have no idea what that is. If you did, you would RESPECT those who do it for poor reward.
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
11:09am
And as for BigBear - what kind of low-life SCUM rips off the country manipulating to get a pension he has no moral right to and then condemns HONEST pensioners to have their spending and saving freedom taken from them? What vile and disgusting behaviour!
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
11:35am
I admire BIgBear as he actually planned his retirement according to the rules which everyone should be doing. Remember those who fail to plan plan to fail.
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
12:00pm
Yes well you would admire dishonesty and immoral manipulation, because you condemn the honest and responsible folk who keep this country ticking over. If everyone did what BigBear did, the economy would collapse - but in the eyes of the self-serving greedy, that wouldn't matter as long as it didn't hurt them.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
12:25pm
Big Bear has done noting wrong at all. In fact he has done what others should do to maximise their welfare. Anyone who thinks otherwise has failed to plan their retirement.
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
2:28pm
So you endorse behaviour that, if widely engaged in, would bankrupt the nation and leave millions destitute. Well done, OG. What a disgusting attitude.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
2:41pm
No I endorse people planning their retirement according to the rules. I get annoyed with people who whinge because they failed to plan and missed out on a good retirement. Just like those who whinge about it being a disgusting attitude to properly plan one's retirement because they failed to plan themselves. I have no problem if everyone did what BigBear did as he played the game by the rules and got himself an awesome retirement together with helping is family have a much better life as well.

That is what everyone should be aiming to achieve.
OnlyGenuineRainey
27th Feb 2018
4:32pm
And screw the nation. Break the country. Drive us all into poverty, civil war... If everyone did it, OG, we'd end up like the countries refugees are fleeing from.

Wake up to yourself. It's selfish. It's destructive. It's dishonest. And it's disgusting.
VeryCaringBigBear
28th Feb 2018
6:50am
So now because people fail to plan it is fair game to abuse those who use the rules to plan their retirement for the best outcome for themselves and their family. If charity doesn't begin at home what chance has society really got. If everyone did what I did then you might get welfare reform but I really can't it it being for the better for those who saved money or have assets when they retire.

25th Feb 2018
5:42pm
You people certainly get into it ,couple of good comments from Raphael and Old Geezer the best thing they can do with pensioners is put them on food stamps lets face it our country would be a lot better off without these bluging bastards getting free money and spending on gambling personaly I pay my own way and have no time for the pensioner scum.
HS
25th Feb 2018
5:52pm
One doesn't have to be a pensioner to be a scum. Some people who pay their own way qualify with flying colours.
Anonymous
25th Feb 2018
6:10pm
Obviously a bludger HS EVER WORK A DAY IN YOUR LIFE
VeryCaringBigBear
25th Feb 2018
6:19pm
It's those scum who become OAPs and abuse the welfare system.
Anonymous
25th Feb 2018
6:32pm
You have hit the nail on the head VeryCaringBigBear but I have to tell you mate you have a big name
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
11:01am
We are seeing the worst scum right here - Roby and BigBear. Where's OG. He is also SCUM.

Pensioners impose far less burden on society than the filthy arrogant corrupt overpaid pigs who exploit, pillage and plunder. Leave pensioners alone you SCUM. They EARNED their miserly income - many times over.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
11:30am
I have paid my way in life many times over which can't be said of many of those who are on welfare that take from the taxpayers and whinge as it is never enough.
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
11:58am
Wrong, egotist. Many of those on welfare worked for a pittance so greedy rich pigs could grow their wealth, because greedy rich pigs never have enough.

It's the pensioners who, for the most part, paid their way in life many times over and are now receiving just a tiny fraction of what they were morally due. The rich just take take take take take, but they are too arrogant to see life as it is and they presume entitlement to the resources and the tax deductions they claim. They just don't see taking what morally belongs to all of us as ''welfare''. but it is - in spades.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
12:07pm
Your green eyes of envy are now shining even brighter OGR.
HS
26th Feb 2018
12:29pm
Clearly some critics are pathological egomaniac narcissists craving for some attention by insulting and offending OAPs. People like that are part of the circle of evil on this Earth.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
12:33pm
Don't know any people like that myself.
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
2:22pm
Look in the mirror, OG. You'll find one there.

Why on earth would I envy someone like you? You are everything I despise and pity - Yes, HS described you well. A 'pathological egomaniac narcissist craving for some attention by insulting and offending OAPs'' and ''part of the circle of evil on this Earth''. Apt and accurate words.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
2:23pm
ROFL very loudly.
OnlyGenuineRainey
26th Feb 2018
2:30pm
That's why you can't see what's in front of you. Laughing at things that are not at all funny has sent you bonkers.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
2:37pm
I was thinking that you were the one who was completely bonkers worrying yourself to death over something that does not concern you at all.
HS
26th Feb 2018
6:17pm
The three darkest personalities are said to be psychopaths, narcissists
and Machiavellians.
They’re responsible for much of the torture inflicted on people such as welfare recipients,whether that’s bullying and exploitation, hyper-criticism or deceitfulness.
The core of malevolent personalities: interpersonal manipulation and callousness.
Old Geezer
26th Feb 2018
6:21pm
HS I don't know of anyone that fits that description and I have no wish to either.
MD
27th Feb 2018
12:38pm
Conversely the flip side/ alter ego and shallowest personalities might just as well be the sane, self loathing, gregarious, envious, covetous, types that harangue and shred tall poppies often with little knowledge of said individuals ?
The core of which amounts to little less than the same malevolent personalities.
Machiavelli was a conniving bastard,without a doubt. He was also a damn fine administrator and achiever. His peers didn't envy him his public achievements by which they also realized benefit- they loathed his methods when they didn't share the spoils.
HS
27th Feb 2018
3:38pm
Yes sir. We have seen and read about numerous achievers in this world who got there by ' callous hook and crook methods' at the expense and pain of other people. Some of the achievers stooped to intentional action to destroy a people in whole or in part. At the end of the day, when it comes, the commoners always end up being the victors and the tall poppies get trampled on. History keeps repeating itself. Each time with more evolutionary refinement. The consciousness has only two paths. One path is the path of Good and the other path is the path of Evil.
"Conniving" means, given to or involved in conspiring to do something immoral, illegal, or harmful. Yet you refer to him as 'damn fine.....achiever" What a paradox statement that is !
OnlyGenuineRainey
27th Feb 2018
4:30pm
But that's how the privileged see it, HS. They think conniving and conspiring to do immoral, illegal and harmful deeds is laudable as long as you make money out of it. It doesn't matter who you hurt in your climb to the top. Just step on anyone who gets in the way - and use those who don't as climbing aides. And then claim ''achievement''!
MD
27th Feb 2018
5:45pm
Macquarie Dictionary (3rd edition) - "Paradox: a statement or proposition seemingly self-contradictory or absurd, and yet explicable as expressing a truth."
Whether the "consciousness has only two paths" (good/evil) itself may be a non sequitur metric and is irrelevant in light of every person's justification for their actions.
No man is an island and fewer still are canonised saints.
VeryCaringBigBear
27th Feb 2018
6:10pm
Never met any privileged people that have been anything but good kind people. If I did they wouldn't be people I would associate with.

Looks like you people have been watching too many movies and lost touch with the real world.

Try doing a good deed for a commoner and you will not be thanked but treated with suspicion. Do the same for wealthy people and they will do same for you. Most wealthy people I know give and don't expect anything in return. Can't say same about those on welfare who take what they can and give nothing in return.
heemskerk99
27th Feb 2018
8:38pm
hold it, hold it, a few of the last comments are going overboard, to state pensioners are by h.s writings scum or by roby's bludgers or by vcbb scum who abuse the system, hey pull back of that language, most have earned their right of the government looking after them, they might not have had the opportunities, luck, health, family worries, etc to become self sufficient in later life however now while living on the pension they should not be derided, yes some may be abusing the system however to punish every pensioner by giving them food stamps is an insult not just for the elderly but also for everybody in this country who is proud to call himself an AUSTRALIAN, is it not the principle of every TRUE AUSTRALIAN living in this beautifull country to look after those who are less fortunate, as for o.g I may not agree with all his comments but admire him/her for never using any abusive language which might be an example for the above mentioned and ogr.
HS
28th Feb 2018
8:47pm
"to state pensioners are by h.s writings scum"
No heemsekerk99 that is not what I wrote. Please put on your reading glasses and read again. I responded to Roby calling pensioners scum. Phew, some people really amaze me !
heemskerk99
27th Feb 2018
8:39pm
x
MD
27th Feb 2018
9:21pm
Heemskerk, stated like a true blue Ozzi. Love the sign off - "X"

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