9th Nov 2018
Friday Flash Poll: Revealing the reality of retirement

This week the Grattan Institute released its controversial Money in Retirement: More than Enough report, which while admirable in that it raises a topic in dire need of debate, is based on questionable assumptions.

YourLifeChoices surveys real retirees on a regular basis. Each quarter, we release the Retirement Affordability Index™, which outlines the true cost of living in retirement across six very different retirement tribes.

The Grattan Institute report is based on general Household, Income and Labour Dynamics in Australia (HILDA) data and estimates. The findings of the report rely on averages, so someone with super savings of $6 million and various other assets – who we would call an ‘Affluent’ retiree – increases the reported ‘average’ balances for Constrained and Cash-strapped retirees, thereby creating misleading figures overall.

The reality is that the median Australian super balance hovers around the $100,000 mark – far short of Grattan estimates.

The Australian Institute of Superannuation Trustees (AIST) states that, “based on SG contributions alone, a full-time worker on average wages from 1992 to 2014 should have super assets of around $131,000. Those on median wages over this period should expect to have around $95,000 in super. Anyone on lower wages (half the working population), or who spent time out of the workforce over the past 23 years, will have less, in some cases a lot less. Not surprisingly, for members in major industry funds approaching retirement – i.e. those in the 60-65 age bracket – average balances are below $100,000. It is estimated that less than five out of every 1000 (i.e. less than 0.5 per cent) members of APRA-regulated funds (i.e. Non-SMSF) have $ 1 million or more in super.”

Even the super balance for those aged 55 and over averages only between $180,000 and $355,000. Is either estimate really enough to fund a comfortable retirement?

Australia now spends more on superannuation concessions for those who are well off in retirement than it does on the Age Pension.

Even by Grattan’s own admission, the number of retired renters – those currently doing it hardest – stands to increase from 16 per cent to around 43 per cent by 2056. Therefore, an alarming number of future retirees who do not have sufficient super will be living in poverty.

We know that real retirees are struggling to make ends meet. The steadily rising cost of living, increasing insurance premiums, soaring fuel and energy costs and the almost assured need to somehow fund their own aged care plan at the third stage of retirement also projects a dim future for many retirees.

Rather than assume the financial situation of Australian retirees, today, we’re asking real people to reveal the reality of retirement.

If you'd like more of a background about the Grattan report, why not read Kaye's commentary or Janelle's report?

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    COMMENTS

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    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    10:58am
    Grattan Institute says working families are more likely to be struggling than retirees. Well DUH! That's how it SHOULD be. When I was working and supporting kids, retirees were way better off than me and my friends. We recognized that after 40+ years of working and paying tax, they ought to be - MUCH better off. And we didn't whine about it. We wanted our oldies to be comfortable and secure. Our turn would come. Now it has. And the time will come for those who are working today. I would hope that they will be better off in retirement than we are, but certainly retirees (the majority of them) SHOULD be able to enjoy comfort and security after working 4 or 5 decades to achieve that position."

    We've done the hard yards. Those who worked and saved well deserve to now reap the rewards. And the system SHOULD provide for the less fortunate retirees.

    If we go with the ideas the Grattan Institute puts forward, and the government pushes, we will end up with more aged people on pensions and struggling and the next generation having nothing to look forward to. It's just silly to whine about retirees being well off, especially when large numbers are NOT. But it's sillier still to be attacking retirees who are moderately comfortable, and trying to make them poor. The huge superannuation concessions to those on high incomes are the problem, and it's simple to address. But the rich will NEVER address problems caused by excessive benefits for the rich.
    MjP
    9th Nov 2018
    2:01pm
    Well said, the problem is those that are well-off complain and whine when any effort is made to make the system fairer.
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    2:33pm
    People would whinge no matter how much they had as it would never be enough.
    AutumnOz
    9th Nov 2018
    3:58pm
    It didn't take long for you to start whinging Geezer. Change the record it is boring.
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    4:06pm
    Ha ha
    Triss
    9th Nov 2018
    6:10pm
    You actually don’t know that, OG, your remark is just your opinion which is not based on fact. Keep parroting it though if it makes you feel better.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    6:15pm
    OG never has enough. He has to steal food hampers from the poor so he can hoard his cash.
    john
    10th Nov 2018
    12:13pm
    Grattan Institute proves beyond a doubt that people in these types of organisations should not be sending or giving advice to the political leaders , when they tell what is not totally correct. And in fact sometimes completely incorrect.
    I'm no expert but as soon as I'd read through that Grattan story the other day , I knew they were living in guesswork land.
    What ever their top man says, it was goobildy gook, and reality had nothing to do with their comments. Which appear to be there to please some one else other than retired people.
    It is indeed not that easy, for some its OK for very few its comfort for too many its a struggle that is not worth having to some. You know what I mean.
    Grattan have advice so wrong that any politician working off that advice will turn our aged population in 20 to 30 years into a third world poverty ridden community.
    Pensions are a RIGHT! Do not believe anything else if you have worked all your life, you deserve comfort in your old age. At this point in time the system appears in a lot of cases to be hard and unforgiving and so damned judgemental of people.
    POLITICIANS WHO WISH TO GET VOTES LISTEN AND THINK.
    Remember all the workforce will one day and every day become pensioners.
    HAVE A PLAN AND DON'T STEAL FROM IT!
    MICK
    9th Nov 2018
    11:14am
    Gratten? This organisation is supposedly non political but is loaded with some pretty well to do right wing sympathisers from the top end of town. So what you get is generally right wing rubbish promoting the policies of the (current) rich man's government.
    There's litte of any value from Grattan. This story is the latest from people who have no idea and who fail to have any interest in sifting through the statistics to come to an understanding of the real facts.
    It must be wonderful to look at a small sample and come to a conclusion which defies common sense but this is what Grattan has done. Ignore the spiel. Its BS at best.

    And now we await a word from our sponsor. OG come on in.....
    Rae
    9th Nov 2018
    5:20pm
    Grattan want a land tax and a rise in GST. The fact is Australia's revenue base has been decimated and retirees have the last real savings left for Governments to go after.
    Triss
    9th Nov 2018
    6:12pm
    That’s true, Rae.
    Von
    9th Nov 2018
    11:48am
    I did not have superannuation until the last 10 years of my working life. I only received 3% of my salary for superannuation. I stayed home with my 3 children. Superannuation was not compulsory for employers to pay their staff during most of my working life. It was not possible for me to save very much out of the small salary I received. I am now retired with a small amount of money in the bank but certainly not enough to see me through. I do not own my own home. I just get on with life and cope the best I can on a pension but I do get quite upset when I read that because I am a pensioner I should be comfortable and secure. I am not and I certainly do not agree with the Grattan Report.
    MICK
    9th Nov 2018
    11:55am
    And this is why the Grattan report is likely a propaganda document written for the government.
    Most Australians approaching retirement age did not have the opportunity of super until they were in their 30s so they are about 10+ years short. Add to that the fraudulent conversion of full time jobs to casual and part time jobs and it is no wonder that many of us are never going to have enough in super. Furthermore just wait until inflation bites, and we have not even seen the real inflation Genie let out of its bottle yet. Coming.
    There should ne not public money spent of Grattan. It has become a political prostitute.
    Rae
    10th Nov 2018
    8:18am
    Grattan pluck figures out of the imagination to suit their agenda. They won't be happy until the few at the top own everything and the rest are peasants doing as they are told. Government policy is slowly ensuring nobody except the wealthy own property.

    To fo from 50% of 50 year olds owning a home to only 17% doing so at 50 is a National disgrace and proves the neo-liberal policy doesn't cause trickle down but gushing up.
    rtrish
    9th Nov 2018
    11:49am
    I was amazed by the results the Institute came up with. Does not fit the reality as I know it. I myself am on the full Age Pension. The self-funded retirees I know aren't living in clover, either. The insecurity of their investments is causing some heartache. Things like dental health can have a big impact as people are older. Who did the Institute interview? Crazy.
    MICK
    9th Nov 2018
    11:56am
    You are the tip of a very large iceberg rthrish. Many of us are tarred with the same issues and Grattan is a waste of public money as well as now being a tool of the right. It needs to go.
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    2:36pm
    All the retirees and pensioners I know are doing very well for themselves thankyou very much.
    MICK
    9th Nov 2018
    4:32pm
    Yeah OG. Straight from Point Piper. They got huge tax cuts!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    6:16pm
    OG doesn't know many pensioners. Nor retirees who live in the real world. He resides in la la land with wealthy mates and steals food hampers intended for the hungry so that he can hoard his cash.
    Triss
    9th Nov 2018
    6:18pm
    Good one, Mick, and so true.
    roy
    9th Nov 2018
    9:06pm
    MICK, ha ha ha ha ha.
    Rae
    10th Nov 2018
    8:20am
    Best thing retirees could do now is go missing from shops , cafes and clubs until the money is missed. We'd have some savings and the BCA would be screaming for relief for pensioners.

    Pity we have no common sense, discipline and will power.
    MARK
    9th Nov 2018
    12:21pm
    I have some questions about the Grattan figures.

    When they say that retirees are receiving 91% of their pre-retirement income, are they looking at what a 75 year old is currently receiving and comparing it to his pre retirement figure when he retired at 65?

    Also, you may have ,say $400,000 in super which is earning 5% ie $20,000pa.....however the superannuation regulations require you to take a minimum pension which varies with your age but which might be ,say $30,000pa. Is the Grattan Institute taking the pension of $30,000 as income even though from the individual's position $10,000 of it is actually capital - over and above the earnings of his superannuation? Spending capital savings and defining it as income because it is taken as a "pension" is just smoke and mirrors and costs them their credibility.
    AutumnOz
    9th Nov 2018
    4:11pm
    I don't know the answers Mark.
    But your second paragraph sounds as if your figures are about right for the way gov't and its associates treats retirees and their incomes.
    If people have $100,000 in a term deposit and earn 2.15% interest and have a Centrelink part pension, the gov't treats that as income then "deems' they are receiving 3.25% on both the term deposit amount and the interest as well.
    And pity the pensioners who have a few acres useless over and above the Centrelink allowed limit of acreage, we wont go into that as it is very painful and costs them dear especially on a part pension.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    6:18pm
    Good points, Mark and AutumnOz. Clearly we can't take much notice of numbers unless we know how they are arrived at. Centrelink claims most people with savings earn far more than they actually earn, because they deem it at rates higher than are paid.
    Rae
    10th Nov 2018
    8:28am
    Yes and the "wealth" they talk about is an illusion as well. It could drop by 40% over the next few years. Property booms and debt make a lot of poor people look rich for a little while.
    Grattan do not consider the massive debt levels. In fact the whole neo-liberal theory ignores debt completely. It's deeming everyone as far wealthier than they actually are in reality. And suits an agenda.
    Noodles
    11th Nov 2018
    12:34pm
    All I know is that for the last 24 years we have been living a comfortable retirement but we pay full price for everything as we fund our own retirement.. except for getting reduced train travel via the seniors card (not the seniors health care card).

    I have no complaints as we planned our retirement well before it happened. If I chose to be resentful about not getting the pension and knowing people who have fiddled the system etc etc I could but I that is wasted energy and stress. Best to get on with our lives and not worry about what others have.
    vinradio
    9th Nov 2018
    12:34pm
    Very unrealistic Grattan report. many pensions/retirees are doing it tough, especially if they don't own a home, and rent. many can't afford health/dental insurance at a time when they probably need it most.
    Misty
    9th Nov 2018
    12:39pm
    Interesting how many multi millionaires are commenting here, puts a whole new light on some of these comments and the people making them.
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    2:37pm
    By the look of the result of the above survey there are some very wealthy people in YLC.
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    3:51pm
    I can’t see any multimillionaires
    There are a few with over $1.5 million
    Cannot draw the conclusion that some of them may have more than $2m

    But I’d trust the results of research by a respected institute such as Grattan over an unscientific survey where people like Mick and Trebor have probably voted multiple times to skew the result
    George
    9th Nov 2018
    4:03pm
    As per this poll, 33% are Fully Self-funded. It means YLC has a disproportionately large bunch of well-off retirees responding to this poll. Even then, I would consider Grattan Institute results as far less trustworthy than even YLC.

    Maybe YLC should try and find out what is the profile across all it's membership to understand if we are getting views mainly from the better-off retirees. Besides the usual highly active trolls!
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    4:06pm
    That's only their super balance.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    6:20pm
    Trust Grattan Institute? Heaven help anyone dumb enough to give them any credibility. It's run by a bunch of overpaid privileged academics who know nothing about life in the real world, and who deliberately shut out opinion from anyone outside their academia circle so they don't risk learning about reality.
    The wolf
    9th Nov 2018
    1:14pm
    The proof is in the pudding. Let those smart guys live for the next 6 months on a pension and then report to us. Of course being young they will not need the medications or other old age needs but let's see how well they do.
    The wolf
    9th Nov 2018
    1:19pm
    It is interesting that all the welfare agencies related to pension find that the pension is inadequate but nobody listen and supposedly one body makes another finding, just one and the government going to follow their advices: I wonder why?
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    2:39pm
    If the OAP is not adequate we would have people living on the streets everywhere.
    AutumnOz
    9th Nov 2018
    4:14pm
    Open your eyes Geezer - we DO have people living on the streets, not everywhere of course as there wouldn't be room to walk around and the authorities would have to take notice and rehouse the homeless.
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    4:17pm
    AutumnOz - those living on the streets are ones with mental health issues or addiction problems
    It’s not due to lack of money. No amount of money given to these people directly is going to help them
    Misty
    9th Nov 2018
    5:03pm
    You obviously don't live in the real world Lothario to make such a stupid comment, go talk to the people who run Youth off the street, Salvation Army etc and they will tell you how wrong you are to make such a statement.
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    5:06pm
    Salvation Army will tell you anything so they can get more grants and donations
    Misty
    9th Nov 2018
    5:10pm
    Another stupid comment Lothario, just what I would expect from you, insulting a charity organisation.
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    5:58pm
    I actually do a bit of work for the Salvos and a couple of other charities and the biggest problem is people's lack of money management skills. One lady said to me one day that she didn't know how much welfare she got but just used her debit card until she ran out of money and then came to see us. We worked out she was getting over $2000 a fortnight.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    6:24pm
    Over $2000 a fortnight? Dream on, OG, unless she has a tribe of kids! And YOU work for the Salvos now, as well as all the other jobs, cruising, caravanning, knowing a tribe of millionaire retirees, and canvassing retirees everywhere? Yet you haven't one ounce of knowledge of reality. You also claim people tell you their problems. BS! Nobody would tell their troubles to such an arrogant, nasty monster who hasn't the capacity for one ounce of empathy. Your lies get wilder and wilder.
    Triss
    9th Nov 2018
    6:26pm
    Whatever detrimental opinion you have, OG, you will always pull some fictitious example out of your hat to prove it.
    roy
    9th Nov 2018
    9:13pm
    Is Musty MICK by another name as he is always accusing others.?
    AutumnOz
    9th Nov 2018
    1:19pm
    That was a very odd survey especially as at least half of those on this forum probably had little or no super.
    There was nowhere to add a comment, or perhaps I gave up in disgust before I got that far.
    Many of us are partly self funded and have a small income from a part pension.
    I certainly wont waste time filling out any more of the friday flash polls as they are not a truthful record of the way people live on their pension whether it is government funded or self funded.
    KB
    9th Nov 2018
    2:26pm
    I agree. I have no super .I rely on pension and small investments that will carry me trough the rest of my life on earth.Not a true and accurate record of how people are living. As you get older you require more medical services and other help which costs money. Farmers do not have super at all. I wish too there was a place to comment
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    3:53pm
    Research shows that people spend less as they get older
    In fact past 59 they spend 2 % less in real terms every year
    Sundays
    9th Nov 2018
    4:30pm
    I agree. This was not a proper survey. I wonder whether YLC actually understand the variances of income retirees have. It could be super, shares, investments, cash at bank, defined benefit pensions, the OAP or a combination of all these. In any case, the Grattan Institute have downplayed the very real struggle of pensioners with limited resources who rent. Neither do they understand that a person with $800,000 at 80 is better off than someone with the same amount aged 60. Depending on your age, money is needed for future health costs, repair and maintenance, upgraded furnishings etc
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    4:44pm
    I agree as I only have about 10% of my wealth I super.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    6:27pm
    Research shows whatever the researcher wants it to show. There are fabrications, lies and statistics!

    Valid point about age, Sundays. It's something the government and all the self-satisfied wealthy ignore, but it's a huge factor in determining financial status of retirees.
    The wolf
    9th Nov 2018
    1:25pm
    I must be thick, where does this figure of 70% of pre pension income will be the pension, my pension is one fifth of what I used to earn. Where did I go wrong ?
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    3:56pm
    Depends on how much you earned
    I am
    Living on 20% of my pre retiremt income
    It’s a big shock to the system for me but still it’s morw then adequate because I spend wisely and save so my income is going up every year . Hope to have it around 27 % in 5 years but it’s not easy as my income was quite generous
    Rae
    10th Nov 2018
    8:35am
    Obviously your income was much higher than the median of around $46 000. Take tax and super out and it's around the couple's aged pension rate. That's why millions of workers are on Centrelink books and having family payments top up income so the kids can be fed.

    We had a terrific system of a living wage, higher taxes and redistribution that supported everyone before Keating started us down the Thatcherite Austerity Road and Howard made sure we got a move on along it.
    ronloby
    9th Nov 2018
    2:02pm
    It is OK for these people to say we have enough as their Retirement money is large compared to the ordinary people because of their income! The same with Pollies and their retirement fund. They don't care about everyday Aussies which is why some of them are "cock of the hoop" with huge pay packets. These people should try living on a pension for 6 months, without touching their bank account.
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    2:41pm
    Grattan Institute is talking about ordinary people. We have about 2 million people over 65 that are not on welfare.
    MICK
    9th Nov 2018
    4:38pm
    And MOST of them are likely earning around pension level from their investments. Big shots eh?
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    6:29pm
    Most earn LESS than the pension, Mick. They are forced to drain their savings to get by. And when their savings are gone... then what? Idiots never consider the future.
    DaveO
    9th Nov 2018
    2:25pm
    DaveO This is a load of rubbish from the Grattan Institute who are only pedling the rubbish that we here from this current government. I and my wife are on the full pension with no other income. We only make it through to the next Pension Day with very littel money to pay our bills and at the moment we are renting. These people from the Grattan Institute should get of their backsides and experience the true world.
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    2:32pm
    There was another report recently which put the average net worth of those over 65 in Australia at $1.3 million.

    To me the Gratton Institute is spot on with it's findings.
    Gee Whiz
    9th Nov 2018
    3:12pm
    I'm over 65 and refuse to believe in fairytales.
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    3:14pm
    ROFL
    MICK
    9th Nov 2018
    4:36pm
    Thanks for the BS OG. We're in that group but I know most are not. Any accurate figure would give the median net worth as well as discuss the fringes. Both ends.
    For the record what is the media house price in Sydney. You can't eat that or pay the bills but you can do as we have been told by this rotten government: sell up and spend up.
    You are on the money Gee Whiz.
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    4:39pm
    For someone worth over $1.3 million made by skimming off employee wages , you sure do whinge a lot
    Are you lobbying for labor so that the next generation of you union and labor mates can keep their noses in the trough of hard working Australians money ?
    Misty
    9th Nov 2018
    5:08pm
    Please enlighten me Old Geezer, what does ROFL mean?.
    Rae
    9th Nov 2018
    5:29pm
    Yes but take out the very wealthy and the average drops well down. Those earning tens of millions skew the figures. I'd be interested in the median and take out house "wealth" that is an imaginary figure at the best of times.
    roy
    9th Nov 2018
    9:12pm
    Time for skiing holiday MICK, Colorado as usual paid for by Liebor.
    Misty
    10th Nov 2018
    12:30am
    I think you mean LIEBERALS Roy.
    roy
    10th Nov 2018
    10:30am
    No Musty, I mean Liebor especially Shifty Shorten.
    Misty
    10th Nov 2018
    10:57am
    No ruy it is definitely Lieberals.
    moke
    9th Nov 2018
    2:39pm
    unfortunately if you had no super because the places you worked were not involved e.g. Private company etc then you eventually ended up on the pension and with medical bills, food Power etc then the pension would eventually end you up in debt unless you eked out a very meager style of living.
    floss
    9th Nov 2018
    3:03pm
    The biggest problem most face in retirement Is a change to the rules, most sensible people provide for retirement well before it happens and any rule changes can be a disaster .If government have to change the rules grandfather them.Changes by both parties have a knock on effect that goes through the system for many years.
    Gee Whiz
    9th Nov 2018
    3:08pm
    Lets see the politicans and the highly paid bean counters of the Grattan report live and survive on the public sectors superannuation benefits and the age pension.


    Isn't is amazing. Its always the people in the top sectors of wealth creation who try to bring down the poorest of the poor. Lets see the Grattan institute execs live on the pension.
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    4:05pm
    Public sector pays ridiculous amounts in super
    It’s disgusting how the public sector drains taxpayers to enrich themselves whilst producing nothing that helps the economy
    Overpaid and underworked bludgers
    The Black Fox
    9th Nov 2018
    3:11pm
    What is forgotten that many retirees, especially the older amongst us, didn't have the benefit of superannuation or had limited superannuation. There also seems to be an assumption that everyone will have superannuation in the future. Not so for those with limited capacity to earn or those in small business with very low incomes. One brush does not fit all.
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    3:15pm
    Many young people today work as contractors so they don't have super.
    Charlie
    9th Nov 2018
    6:03pm
    So true I dont recall seeing any compulsory super till I was 35yo
    Paddington
    10th Nov 2018
    1:40pm
    Another group is self employed like mobile hairdressers and massage therapists. They don’t earn a lot either.
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    3:43pm
    Raising contribution to 12.5% will increase wage inflation and cause prices across the board through the roof
    It’s counter productive , lead to higher unemployment and probably even cause a recession
    dreamer
    9th Nov 2018
    7:31pm
    Lothario 12.5% will increase wage inflation, so the 15.4% that civil servants get and the pollies for sitting on there backsides all day means nothing, some people should learn before they start what they say
    Rae
    10th Nov 2018
    8:50am
    We have wage deflation though and have since the Liberals decided to use policy to stagnate wages or lower them. Only the top management have had income inflation.

    I agree that raising the level of Super is a bad idea though. People are struggling with huge debt and that needs to be paid. Saving for some future decade in a world facing climate change and overpopulation and resource depletion is not a great idea if your plan is to ignore these situations until chaos erupts.
    George
    9th Nov 2018
    3:57pm
    We needed one more question in the Poll - Should Grattan Institute be advised to shut down as they do not represent Retirees?
    Majority of respondents here are expected to say: a Big YES.

    They are nothing but a mouthpiece for the rich using fraudulent methods to arrive at fake results.

    According to the Australian Institute of Superannuation Trustees (AIST), the median super balance for those about to retire is $95,000. Less than five out of every 1000 (i.e. less than 0.5 per cent), excluding those with self-managed super funds (SMSFs), will have $1 million or more. In fact, this poll in YLC has 33% saying they are fully funded! So, even this poll does not represent the average retiree. If YLC advises Gratan Institute of the YLC views, this should be noted as well.
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    4:03pm
    Grattan is a respected institute and it’s reports are well researched and scientific
    Those disagreeing with it do so for their own politician agenda and financial benefit in my opinion
    Resreach shows that retirees soend 2 % less each year in real terms once their pass 59 years of age
    So savings build up and so income increases
    Sundays
    9th Nov 2018
    4:38pm
    So Lothario, you fully understand that the Grattan Institute started with $30M of Government grants, supplemented by grants from big business. They receive free rent from the University of Melbourne. Their reports may be researched but they definitely have a bias. Also, it’s run along the same lines as the public service departments you so despise
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    6:27pm
    So how does that make Grattan biased and it’s research any less credible
    Especially when the research is run by highly qualified and respected research professionals and academics
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    6:32pm
    Grattan Institute doesn't even allow contribution to research from anyone without multiple advanced university degrees. Their findings are total BS - designed to mislead so the rich are further indulged and battlers lives get harder.
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    6:34pm
    Yes we want research from intelligent educated folks not from dumb people who will publish nonsense
    Sundays
    9th Nov 2018
    7:34pm
    Yes we do, but also from people who can think for themselves. Not people straight from Uni with a PhD who are told what outcome is required. My point is when your money comes from the Liberal party and big business you cannot be the independent body you claim to be
    George
    9th Nov 2018
    8:18pm
    Excellent points, Sundays, in both your comments. The pied pier calling the tune is the Liberal party in this case. The result is fraudulent so-called research. Anyone who thinks retirees get 91% of the pre-retiree income on retirement clearly has rocks in their heads and do not live in the real world in Australia. Any statistician who uses averages, rather than median, to interpret where the average retiree sits should be debarred from expressing their fake results. Hence, they need to be shut down by force of real research from YLC, ASFA, AIST, APRA, etc, etc. They need to clearly show their sources of funds along with any such research - where are ASIC & APRA?
    robnlee
    9th Nov 2018
    4:24pm
    Grattan have obviously only spoken to the top end of town.
    The reality is much more stark and severe and the future is grim
    robnlee
    9th Nov 2018
    4:26pm
    The Grattan Mates are obviously in the top end of town
    The reality is much more stark and severe and the future is grim
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    4:32pm
    No - it’s a properly researched report meaning they surveyed an unbiased sample taking into account the full spectrum and cross section of the community
    Misty
    9th Nov 2018
    5:14pm
    Lothario, PLEASE READ SUNDAY'S COMMENT ABOVE.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    13th Nov 2018
    10:41am
    Dream on, Lothario. Simply NOT POSSIBLE to come to their ABSURD conclusions from a properly unbiased survey of a broad sample. NOT POSSIBLE.
    gerry
    9th Nov 2018
    4:34pm
    I,m ashamed to go to the Nationals seniors monthly meeting because they live in 3 million dollar houses with very few other assets so they boast about cruising every year on the state pension .and eat out at the tennis club.,,I worked in a small business but managed to invest some money, but had I been working for an employer my savings would have been worth triple and with all the tax advantages of super
    MICK
    9th Nov 2018
    4:41pm
    Rich graziers by the sound of it.
    Owning just a house is fine until you need some money and have nothing to sell. Life has a way of sorting out those who live at the track.
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    4:43pm
    Mick it is the only way to go now with governments fleecing self funded retirees.
    Sundays
    9th Nov 2018
    4:46pm
    National seniors has 130,000 members, they can’t all live in $3M houses! I’m sure they represent the full cross section of retirees. I’ve been on a few cruises and I’ve never yet met a retiree who boasts about their income. It’s a private matter
    George
    9th Nov 2018
    8:22pm
    I have never seen or heard any real or useful contribution from National Seniors to bat for pensioners - either full or part, e.g. when the Govt was destroying part-pensioers with the Asset test changes. They are clearly a bunch of people representing the rich retirees.
    Misty
    9th Nov 2018
    4:54pm
    Interesting how many millionaires and multi millionaires are commenting here, says a lot about some of the comments and the people making them.
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    5:05pm
    Please explain
    Are you saying only a certain cross section of the community has the right to comment here and those comments must agree with your views only ?
    You sound like Mick
    Misty
    9th Nov 2018
    5:19pm
    I don't need to explain any thing, ESPECIALLY TO YOU LOTHARIO, I am merely commenting on the results of the Flash Poll, I am allowed to do that am I not?
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    5:27pm
    LOL
    Never mind . You’re showing your true colours
    Misty
    9th Nov 2018
    6:31pm
    As are you Lothario.
    roy
    9th Nov 2018
    9:09pm
    Why the capitals MICK, DO YOU REALLY HAVE TO SHOUT AT LOTHARIO? Apologise to him you oaf.
    roy
    9th Nov 2018
    9:10pm
    Are you Musty?
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    9:14pm
    Thank you Roy
    Some people have no manners
    Misty
    10th Nov 2018
    12:32am
    Now I know why we have so many people replying to the Flash Poll, looks like Roy and Lothario are one and the same.
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    5:25pm
    The results of this survey so far supports Grattans report
    Close to 70% say they have enough to well for the rest of their years
    The ones that say they don’t should be taken with a pinch of salt as it is in their interest to Vote no. Who wouldn’t like to receive more handouts. I’d hazard a guess that’s it’s close to 100% of welfare recipients
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    5:55pm
    I agree. I said I didn't have enough.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    6:14pm
    You are a nasty piece of work, Lothario. I know a lot of welfare recipients who are more than content with their lot, and those I know who are not are genuinely struggling - through no fault of their own. I suspect pensioners are more likely to think they have enough than SFRs - many of whom are suffering constant hits to their income and fear having to go on the pension, which is something they wanted to avoid. I don't think I have enough to be self-funded until I die, thanks to Hockey and now Shorten's threatened attack, and market risks. I never wanted to be dependant on the taxpayer but I fear I will be. Actually, though, I'd be way better off as a pensioner! Part-pensioners with healthy savings are very well off.
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    6:17pm
    Rainey
    Stop whinging
    Spend up and go in the kart oension as soon as you are eligible
    After all that’s what Shortens policy outcome will be
    95% of pensioners will be on full or part pension
    It will makes no sense unless you can have over $2m above the pension threshold under the Shorten scheme
    Misty
    9th Nov 2018
    6:33pm
    'kart oension" Lothario?.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    6:35pm
    Makes on sense no unless you have way over the $1 million or can get very high returns. We are going to have a nation of leaners very soon, and nobody to pay the bills.
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    6:37pm
    Part pension Misty
    Surely you can decipher the typos
    My autocorrect sometimes thinks it’s German
    Misty
    9th Nov 2018
    6:37pm
    What do you mean by the comment above Lothario, "Close to 70% say they have enough to well on?."
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    6:38pm
    Rainey - if I were you I would upgrade to a better home and go part pension as soon as Shorten introduces his franking credit policy
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    6:39pm
    To live well on Misty
    God - you’re thick
    But not your fault I suppose , must be Grattans fault
    Misty
    9th Nov 2018
    6:42pm
    Well I gathered that Lothario, just wondered if you think we are too stupid to realise this, and my husband was Austrian and GERMAN I am used to, those 2 words were not.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    6:43pm
    He's talking rubbish, MIsty. That's why his autocorrect doesn't work. It knows he's full of BS. Nowhere near 70% said they had ''enough to live on, and over 50% gave an amount that is nowhere near enough without a pension - and if you have to get a pension, clearly you DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TO LIVE ON. If you did, you wouldn't need to go to Centrelink at all, obviously!
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    6:45pm
    You’re married Misty ?
    Your poor husband
    Misty
    9th Nov 2018
    7:13pm
    Can't you understand English Lothario?, I said "was", my husband died 4 years ago.
    roy
    9th Nov 2018
    9:05pm
    When Shifty Shorten becomes PM, this is going to be a land flowing with milk and honey never fear especially if MICK is our treasurer, right MICK?
    Rae
    10th Nov 2018
    9:07am
    Nobody can predict the future.

    With climate change, overpopulation and resource depletion the future is unknown territory.

    Anything could happen.

    I'm constantly astounded by pensioners out and about bleeding money. They must be very lucky to just live for the day and not worry about tomorrow.

    I'm watching our currency and oil prices and cutting back my spending.

    The problem Grattan has is too many PhD graduates who believe they know everything.
    roy
    10th Nov 2018
    10:29am
    Rae, it's nothing to do with PhD graduates, it's MICK who knows everything.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    6:40pm
    49% have LESS than $300,000. Don't know how some commenters here conclude that this survey supports any conclusion that retirees have ''more than enough''. And I note that most respondents are younger retirees or still working. $300,000 is nowhere near enough to last a lifetime without a pension, so it's simply not possible that most have ''more than enough''.
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    6:48pm
    The pension is enough to live on
    So it follows that those on the pension should all have voted as such if they were truly being honest
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    8:07pm
    That only super OGR. Most would have a lot more tucked away outside super as they didn't have enough time to get a lot of super.
    Misty
    9th Nov 2018
    8:55pm
    You have got to be joking OG, very few people in my country town would have retired with $300,000 in the last 10 years and certainly wouldn't have had that after the GFC, we lost nearly half of our investments at that time.
    Rae
    10th Nov 2018
    9:08am
    I thought a couple could have $300 000 and get the OAP?
    Misty
    10th Nov 2018
    10:24am
    I don't know Rae but maybe it depends how you take your super, in an allocated pension perhaps, would have to Google to find out.
    Old Geezer
    11th Nov 2018
    11:53am
    If people have $300,000 in super then they would have just as much if no more outside super if they were retired. Remember super was only available for half their working lives at best.
    Misty
    11th Nov 2018
    12:48pm
    Get in the real world OG, we had $300,000 combined in our super before the GFC but not a lot of savings, bringing up 4 children and paying off a mortgage took care of most of our incomes, I only worked part time, we never had a new car ever, only second hand ones, but we did go overseas to visit my husband's family a couple of times, staying with family to minimise expense.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    13th Nov 2018
    10:37am
    What an idiotic and baseless ASSUJMPTION, OG. You really are a prize ASS! What on earth makes you think that people have as much outside super as in it? That's an insane assumption that has absolutely ZERO substance.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    13th Nov 2018
    10:54am
    I can point to dozens of folk who had NO employer-funded super at all and didn't make voluntary contributions until near retirement age, yet have nearly 100% of their wealth in super, OG. On accountant's advice, they dumped their savings into super to get a favourable tax deal. I know of a few who have already downsized their home to contribute to super. A friend who had ZILCH savings (and quite a few debts) put a lump sum from an IP sale into super. Spent the rest of his life paying debts and retired with a mortgage and virtually nothing outside super, but nearly $900,000 in super. Instead of pulling out of super to pay the mortgage, he sold the house and bought a caravan to live in, and went on a holiday on the rest of the sale proceeds, so now still has virtually 100% of ALL assets in super.

    Vast numbers had NOTHING when compulsory super was introduced, and saved NOTHING outside of super, because they never valued saving and saw no point to it. I'm starting to think they were right, given the way savers are now abused and deprived.

    Just because someone didn't have super for more than half their life DOES NOT mean they have savings outside of super.
    Old Geezer
    13th Nov 2018
    1:58pm
    Only a fool has 100% of their wealth in super.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    13th Nov 2018
    3:42pm
    Oh, so that's how you respond to being shown to be WRONG, OG? It's totally irrelevant whether it's smart or foolish to have 100% of one's wealth in super. That is NOT at issue here. The issue is whether or not people DO have more than 50% in super - and clearly vast numbers DO. You are WRONG.
    Lothario
    13th Nov 2018
    3:46pm
    Vast numbers do?

    Bit of a stretch

    Just because you seem to know a lot of people who have been so hard done by or are extremely stupid, Like the man who put everything in super then sold his house and bought a caravan

    Most everyone I know has millions outside super.
    Misty
    13th Nov 2018
    5:33pm
    I always thought you were one Lothario ((Millionaire), obviously you mix with a different crowd to the people I know.
    Lothario
    13th Nov 2018
    5:39pm
    Misty, I live quite a modest lifestyle compared to my friends

    I don't drive a super luxury car , own a yacht or live in a penthouse with sea views
    Jim
    9th Nov 2018
    6:49pm
    The Grattan institute was formed in 2008 and any attempt to suggest that it is not independent is just the usual mischievous attempt to attack the current government, the article is talking about how retirees are managing in the current economic climate and if most retirees feel as if they are going ok, the answer is very different depending on many things, ie when you retired, at what age and how many years you had superannuation before you retired, if you or your dependents had illness, divorce and probably heaps of other circumstances, I don’t agree with some of their assumptions, mainly the assumption that by 2056 there will be 53% of pensioners will be renting, how on earth could they come up with that figure, when I stated getting superannuation it was 2.5% growing to 9.5% in the last few years before retirement, anyone retiring in 2056 will have had many more years of high % superannuation, most will more than likely have too much money for them to get the pension, at a guess there will be lots of millionaires from the working class, which was Keating’s plan so people wouldn’t need to rely on the pension, which in turn will leave more money for those that need it the most.
    Zach
    9th Nov 2018
    8:54pm
    I worked as a medium to low income worker for more than 50 years, Of those years, the last 15 years were the only ones that provided access to super which is no real amount to even consider a nest egg. By the time the banks took their interest on the mortgage, the government took their taxes, the insurances companies, the council,the power companies, the tele-communication companies took there ever increasing rates and god knows how many i have failed to list. Now here I am at 68 years old with a worn out body and no longer able to put in a decent days work relying totally on the pension, and yet still outgoing costs still outstrip any rises the happen with the pension and here we have some clown saying the pension is adequate, Well I call them on their bullsh*t
    Misty
    9th Nov 2018
    9:08pm
    Ditto to that comment Zach, a lot of wealthy people commenting on here who wouldn't have a clue how tough some people are doing, according to this Flash Poll 1,304 people participated, makes you wonder who they doesn't it, I have never seen 1,304 different people commenting on here, maybe the same people completed this poll many times and filled it out differently each time to get the results they wanted.
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    9:12pm
    Don’t believe me , then look at the poll results . A majority of those who said they are full OAP and rent say tbey have adequate funds to last a lifetime
    Presumably they mean taxpayer funds they get from centerlink every fortnight
    Misty
    9th Nov 2018
    9:16pm
    Sorry should read, "makes you wonder who they are", thought I had better correct this sentence before Lothario makes a rude comment.
    Lothario
    9th Nov 2018
    9:18pm
    Unlike you I never pick on spelling errors or typos
    I’m not that pedantic or bitchy unlike some
    roy
    9th Nov 2018
    9:26pm
    That's very unkind of you Musty, we can all make spelling mistakes, no wot i meen?
    Misty
    9th Nov 2018
    9:42pm
    Sure doh ruy.
    Misty
    10th Nov 2018
    12:37am
    How many times Roy and Lothario did you complete this poll?, some people must have done it many times giving different answers as I have never seen comments on any YLC topics from 1,304 different people.
    Lothario
    10th Nov 2018
    12:38am
    Maybe some people don’t wish to comment because of the personal attacks from people like you Mick and Trebor
    Misty
    10th Nov 2018
    8:32am
    Not personal attacks Lothario,just making a different point of view and if you and Roy don't like it too bad, don't be so precious and anyway you give as much as you get, anyone can see that if they read your comments.
    roy
    10th Nov 2018
    10:27am
    They keep spelling your name wrong Musty, do correct them.
    Misty
    10th Nov 2018
    10:47am
    Funny that ruy, I have the same problem with your name.
    Adrianus
    11th Nov 2018
    9:12am
    Zach, please don't misunderstand my question? Just an honest curiosity? Did it ever occur to you that you may be in this situation? I mean, 68 and strapped for cash? I don't know your circumstances of course. You seem to be suggesting that someone should have forced you to save for your retirement many years sooner? I suppose that is now the case for todays youth. I think the average super account for young people these days holds about 2 years wages, they also have an eye for the future with a "live, save, invest" attitude which didn't exist for the first of the baby boomers.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    14th Nov 2018
    8:17am
    Having investigated the assumptions behind the Grattan Institute's report, I found that:

    1. They ASSUMED ALL EMPLOYEES make voluntary superannuation contributions. They AVERAGED supposed contributions, so that instead of noting that high income earners make substantial contributions and low income earners make none, they assumed low income earners have a much higher super balance than in reality, due to consistent voluntary contributions

    2. They ASSUMED everyone works 37 years without interruption. Of course we all know that's ridiculous!

    3. They randomly decided that retirees DO NOT NEED to keep pace with general living standards, but only need CPI income increases.

    Obviously the first two assumptions brand their findings total BS and Grattan grossly incompetent.

    The third assumption is appallingly arrogant and potentially constitutes ELDER ABUSE, as it declares the aging are not worthy of enjoying improved living standards or the benefits of technology or communication advances, but must live in the past while the young have exclusive entitlement to the benefits of progress. What a shocking attitude!


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