Age Pension - should it be a loan?

Watch out home owners – they’re coming to get you!

house of money with sold sign

Watch out home owners – they’re coming to get you!

With nearly 70 percent of retirees on a full or part Age Pension, the Australian Chamber of Industry and Commerce (ACCI)’s idea to turn the pension into a loan against the family home is sure to attract attention.

In fact, as Chief Executive Kate Carnell declared on ABC Radio National yesterday, we could head into a ‘Greek-style’ debt crisis if so-called ‘runaway’ spending on the Age Pension, family tax benefits and childcare was not reined in. So the the scheme offered in the ACCI budget submission is for the Age Pension to be paid as a loan to retirees who own a home, and then the ‘debt’ would be paid back by selling the house.

"It seems irrational really for a family home not to be counted when you look at pensioners' capacity to fund themselves," Ms. Carnell argued.

Good grief, Ms Carnell. Just where would you start?

So we take the Age Pension – a reward for service to the country introduced in 1908 – and we decide it’s not a right any more. No it’s a loan. And it’s a loan to those who have paid off their house – no mention of those who never saved a deposit or paid back a mortgage slowly, painfully over 20, 30 or 40 years. So let’s beat up old home owners, that sounds like fun. Because the pensioners clearly have a capacity to fund themselves.

NOT.

Perhaps we should take a reality check, instead, and refresh ourselves with the numbers – one-third of Australian pensioners are living in poverty, according to Oxfam. And the money spent on the Age Pension by the Australian Government, expressed as a percentage of GDP, is the third meanest rate in all 14 OECD nations.

So rather than ‘runaway’ debt spent on the Age Pension, we have a mean, parsimonious government which knows that a third of age pensioners are living in poverty, but sees this as an inconvenient truth, best hidden by inaccurate statements and fear mongering about the increasing cost of a pension that our country can no longer afford.

Amazingly, we can afford large corporates’ tax minimisation practices, diesel fuel rebates for mining companies, generous superannuation tax concessions for the wealthy (somewhat ironically due to overtake spending on all Age Pensions), but any kind of increase in the pension to drag the bottom third up into some kind of sustainable income? No, that’s not affordable.

As always, the devil is in the detail, so we look forward to reading the full detail of the ACCI’s budget ideas. As you can, too, by visiting ACCI.asn.au  

Read more at TheAge.com.au

What do you think? Is the ACCI suggestion a reasonable response to the need to curb our national spending? Or do you take exception to the Age Pension moving from an entitlement to a loan? Should the ACCI be looking at savings within the business sector, rather than families and older Australians?

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    COMMENTS

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    kev888
    16th Feb 2016
    10:15am
    Chief Executive Kate Carnell likes the sound of her own voice,
    Im not a medical practitioner , could the chief be mentally retarded ?
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    11:28am
    No. She's the spokesperson for Big Business. Her job. Anything this woman ever says centres around tax cuts for the rich and their big business interests.
    Misty
    16th Feb 2016
    1:29pm
    Today I heard that Coalition politician Dantien has 8 investment properties, no doubt all negative geared, I don't know how true this report is but maybe the Kate Carnell could start here, what do you think?.
    PaTuSom
    16th Feb 2016
    1:45pm
    No kev888, not mentally retarded...just implementing a very cunning plan...my Lord!
    Wstaton
    16th Feb 2016
    2:29pm
    How on earth does a politician on his salary reckon he is losing on properties manage to negative gear.

    Probably all in his wife's name who doesn't work. (If he is married)
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    2:51pm
    I agree with her in that the level of welfare in this country is past ridiculous. We have become nothing but a welfare dependent society and this needs to change before we become a third world country.

    I certainly wouldn't want to be a renter if negative gearing gets abolished and the capital gain concession gets halved.
    Anonymous
    16th Feb 2016
    3:19pm
    So let's change the law so that people who worked all their lives and paid taxes but never earned enough to save to be self-sufficient in retirement, and didn't have generous superannuation schemes are denied the right to leave the home they struggled for 4 decades to pay off to their offspring. Then, logically, battlers will GIVE their home to their offspring five years before applying for a pension and then claim rent assistance. No asset for the government to claim, and the pension costs rise. STUPID! Like the idiotic change to the taper rate that screams ''don't save for retirement unless you can retire rich. The greedy government will make you drain all your hard-won savings while others get handouts double the size of your income.''

    What we SHOULD be doing is encouraging work, saving and investing. You can't do that by crucifying battlers who do just that, but don't end up wealthy. We need to restore incentives and fairness, and stop over-indulging the greedy, selfish privileged whose appalling lack of social conscience is destroying this nation.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    3:23pm
    Easier way is to set up a testimonial trust and then no one can get at the capital.
    Rae
    16th Feb 2016
    3:30pm
    I agree Bonny and it seems the Business and Industry and Medical fraternity are the worst leaners when it comes to bleeding the tax coffers dry.
    Renny
    16th Feb 2016
    4:21pm
    Carnell (she) is a failed ACT Chief Minister and responsible for some really dumb decisions. Her past is murky. But she's just doing Turnbulks work for him. Float an idea and see who likes and who support the lies. Welfare for a start, except to big business, is not out of control. The third SMALLEST as a percentage of GDP of any OECD country. i think i'm entitled to my age pension when I'm of that age because I've always paid my tax willingly and accepted that as being part of a welfare state. I haven't used negative gearing to enrich myself at the expnse of services to others, or rorted the super guarantee provisions so I didn't gave to pay for the infrastructure everyone uses. I haven't bitched about the $'s that go to other people's kids despite being childless (not by choice). No doubt those who whinge about welfare are the very ones who've used taxation avoidance as their own personal piggy trough. Don't like you people much. But then I don't care what you think either.
    Misty
    16th Feb 2016
    5:04pm
    Yes Wstation I also heard that some may be in his wife's name, does anyone know if this is true?, I haven't been to town to buy a newspaper for the last 2 days this was apparently in a newspaper or business report somewhere.
    I heard it on a TV news.
    Misty
    16th Feb 2016
    5:08pm
    Well said Renny I agree 100%.
    Adrianus
    16th Feb 2016
    10:01pm
    Bonny, testamentary trust?
    MICK
    17th Feb 2016
    1:21am
    Bonny: until it ends. Then your descendants pay up.
    Adrianus
    17th Feb 2016
    8:04am
    Yes but we can have some fun for 99 years :)
    ex PS
    19th Feb 2016
    4:24pm
    Bonny, by a third world country would you mean a country that can't provide proper benefits to its retired citizens?
    I don't see how property investors should be allowed to suck from the welfare teat and others are condemmed. After all negative gearing and capital gains concesions are supplemented by the tax payer. The same with trusts, someone else is subsidising a tax dodge. A bit like providing welfare to the well off don't you think?
    LiveItUp
    19th Feb 2016
    7:32pm
    So what has all this to do with me?

    Negative gearing is another word for a loss and I don't like losses.
    Saalbach
    16th Feb 2016
    10:23am
    One can only assume the ACCI believes its members would make more profit under the proposed arrangement. Maybe a better solution would be for organisations such as this, and their members, to pay an additional levy to cover the cost of the age pension, so the Govt can save money. Alternatively, keep their noses out of matters that don't directly concern them
    PaTuSom
    16th Feb 2016
    10:24am
    I think that you have a point kev888, Kate Carnell and her ACCI is delving into the social engineering now. I guess that its far easier to do that rather than tackle the Multinational companies and their tax avoidance?
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    11:29am
    They are Carnell's customers....and clearly off limits. So why has this government refused to act against multinationals? Obvious dear Watson!
    Rae
    16th Feb 2016
    3:33pm
    I wish I knew who her clients were as I would boycott them immediately. The hide of the woman is amazing given over 30% of aged pensioners are living in poverty.
    bletch
    16th Feb 2016
    10:29am
    AND HERE WE GO ...YET AGAIN.........
    Pick on the RICH Pensioners....we have plenty of money and are living a life of luxury!

    We all know what to do next election beacuse this government HAS LOST THE PLOT ENTIRELY!
    Pablo
    16th Feb 2016
    10:48am
    Be careful what you wish for! Do you want electricity bill shorten as PM? Turnbull may not be a great choice as PM, but shorten would be so much worse!
    tia-maria
    16th Feb 2016
    11:04am
    Pablo sorry mate on this one............... it was Mr Mike Baird who privatise the electricity.....not Shorten mate......unfortunately the Liberal are the ones trying to hurt us big times .......... remember their the ones in power and coming up with the idea our homes should repay back for our pensions...cheers
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    11:32am
    We are seeing a government working it's pants off engaging in Class Warfare: the transfer of money from the poor to the wealthy. Pretty obvious when you examine every one of their policies. All going in the same direction from what I can see.
    KSS
    16th Feb 2016
    2:02pm
    And only in NSW tia-maria!
    PaTuSom
    16th Feb 2016
    2:07pm
    Victoria was shafted in a same way during the Jeff Kenneth years, some 20 years ago!
    Rae
    16th Feb 2016
    3:38pm
    Pablo it is the LNP gradually selling off everything to the Chinese government that is the problem. Then renting and signing overpriced contracts with multinationals instead of employing Australian companies and workers.
    roy
    18th Feb 2016
    11:32am
    Vote independent.
    ex PS
    20th Feb 2016
    8:57am
    Pablo, at least Shorten pretends to be interested in making the big companies pay their fair share. ALP, the lesser of two weasels.
    Adrianus
    20th Feb 2016
    9:12am
    Shorten may talk the talk but his actions tell a different story. Luckily the Greens supported LNP legislation. The ALP should be concerned about the flow of funds. Particularly where the unions are concerned.
    Idontforget
    16th Feb 2016
    10:30am
    Before we run off with ourselves, lets consider this. Federal and state government employees, including Members of Parliament's pensions come from the same source as the aged pension, the taxpayer. Why are there no questions asked as to whether the pensions of these government employees is sustainable?

    Maybe some might argue that these employees have worked for it. The private sector workers rearing a family in the 1960 (and before that of course) to the 1980's would receive a check for the birth of a child that was hardly worth cashing. Child endowment was a pittance. Medicare did not exist or it was in its infancy. There was no Community Health Centre to assist with rearing children. If a child on leaving school couldn't get a job, there was no running off to the Government to get the dole, the parents had to keep him/her. The list is almost endless compared to the free benefits available to families today. And I don't begrudge that.

    But what the 'modern' view of today fails to recognise or acknowledge, it was the 'going without' of yesterdays family that generated the wealth that allows today's Government to offer current benefits.

    So why should yesterdays worker feel vilified and embarrassed about receiving a portion from the 'pot of gold' that most people of today happily dip into.
    bletch
    16th Feb 2016
    10:34am
    Very Good Point ...................
    tia-maria
    16th Feb 2016
    11:05am
    Idontforget fully agree with your comment mate.............we need to be treated with more respect
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    11:34am
    That's hit the nail on the head. This is a game aimed squarely at average Australians who are going to be taxed so that truck loads of money flows into the bank accounts of the rich. Who voted for this lying low life government?
    tia-maria
    16th Feb 2016
    11:38am
    mick I would never vote in Liberal
    Idontforget
    16th Feb 2016
    11:39am
    And today on the news. A federal Politician billing the taxpayer $1,600.00 to go to Queensland and inspect the gold mine he has an interest in. Oh, I forgot. The real purpose of his trip was to inspect the home for aged cats that just happened to occur at the same place and time as his so called gold mine inspection.

    And will you hear a bleat from the opposition. No, don't hold your breath and hope you will because the whole mob of them know that many from each side of the Parliament has been ripping the taxpayer off like this for years.

    And they have the hide to sanctimoniously stand up and put their hand on their heart and ask us to trust and respect them. Pfff
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    12:01pm
    Funny how a federal ICAC in NEVER brought in. That would rightly put those who decide to be crooks in government where they deserve to be: in jail.
    Sundays
    16th Feb 2016
    12:05pm
    Yes, and receiving one of those parliamentary pensions would be Kate Carnel as a former Chief Minister of the ACT. In that role, the only thing she did of note, was to turn up to the opening of any/every event. Then, as now she was totally out of touch with ordinar Australians. Like all govt employees she would have contributed from her own salary, but her return which includes the govt contribution. Is much higher. No age pension for her, so her home(s) all safe.
    Renny
    16th Feb 2016
    4:30pm
    I'm an Ex public servant and an ex teacher. I paid for my superannuation. I was never able to claim any payments as tax deductions. Having taken 100% as a pension I can never ever convert any of my money to cash, neither can I leave any of it to my heirs and successors (other than my spouse who will get a reduced pension if I pre decease him). Which is unlikely given our age difference. It's my asset but my access to it is xtremeky limited. Even if I don't use all of it before death it just reverts to consolidated revenue. Your ignorance and assumptions are astounding. And I never had a choice of where to invest those funds. But don't let facts get in the way of your irrational beliefs.
    Misty
    16th Feb 2016
    5:15pm
    Who are you having a dig at Renny?, who has irrational beliefs?, I don't remember reading anything here about that.
    Rae
    16th Feb 2016
    8:51pm
    Renny I can understand why public servants who paid very large amounts of after tax income into compulsory Superannuation that are now the only workers unable to claim those non concessional amounts as savings but are told they are now classed as income again are very annoyed.

    What I don't understand is why a class action or union court challenge hasn't been made already.

    I just can't see how the legislation is constitutional.
    Adrianus
    16th Feb 2016
    8:56pm
    Good point Rae. It is the strongest union in the land and if they cant mount a legal case then maybe the legal case is flawed? Thought of that? I don't know I'm just thinking left field?
    Rae
    17th Feb 2016
    10:01am
    No Frank the chief problem is the Teacher's Union have a representative on the board of State Super getting a bit more than $200 000 a year. It is a cushy job for the boys arrangement. Also I really don't think the union is interested in retirees as they don't pay dues.
    It is possible that it is flawed as we know there is no fairness at all in the system.

    The best thing to do is to be self sufficient and take no money either as payments or grants from this government less it be classed as debt against any assets you might hold.
    Adrianus
    17th Feb 2016
    10:39am
    Rae, I see. There seems to be so many Union Reps sitting on Superannuation Boards. Their pay rate must be something like $3,000 per hour?
    I agree with your assessment. The best thing to do is become self sufficient. Welfare was originally designed for the needy before it became a method of buying votes.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    11:26am
    You are right that welfare was originally designed for the needy, Frank. But the aged pension was NOT intended to be welfare. Governments set up a retirement funding program decades ago that imposed a levy on every taxpayer that was to be put aside to fund retirement. It's sad that subsequent governments stole that money, while workers continue to pay into it and the government keep stealing what is contributed, and are now denying those who paid that levy the entitlement they were promised.

    If those who pay into superannuation were cheated of their super, they would scream blue murder, but the privileged seem quite content to - for their own greedy and selfish ends - demand that people who paid into a different scheme (because they weren't as privileged) forfeit the benefit they paid for, and along with it their self-respect and any expectation of a comfortable living standard in old age.
    ex PS
    19th Feb 2016
    4:37pm
    As an ex Public Servant I am amazed at the lack of knowledge that is prevalant in those who try to make points against the PS super schemes.
    My super is funded exactly the same way as the private sector, eg. I paid in a percentage of my wage into an investment fund and at the appropriate age I get to covert it into a pension just like everyone else.
    Yes just like most other super schemes the Employer placed a certain amount into my scheme on my behalf. This payment consisted of money ngotiated by the Union in lieu of salary increases. As far as I can remember the tax payer has not put any money into my scheme that I had not earned.
    I have a good friend who worked for a private company that had exactly the same scheme as I had.
    tia-maria
    16th Feb 2016
    10:40am
    Our aged pension should not be a.......... LOAN........... we worked bloody hard all our lives and paid taxes............ looks Like this Liberal Government wants to keep hurting the retired pensioners (THE BATTLERS) many own a small home and some don't........and to even think of repaying back what pension you have given us..........SHAME ON THE BLOODY LOT OF YOU GREEDY LAZY POLITICIANS.............You been handing out so much taxpayers hard earn money and setting up camps for Asylum seekers its about time these people paid it back.............
    Pablo
    16th Feb 2016
    10:53am
    Agree totally with what you say tia-maria, but I would go further and talk about the money paid to dole bludgers and disability pensioners, not the genuine ones but the ones who are ripping the taxpayers off every day.

    Stop blaming the aged pensioners who have worked hard all their lives, bought their own homes, paid taxes and built this country into what we are today. The fault lies with those who are always walking around with their hands out, wanting something for nothing. Just for once, crack down on the undeserving and leave the pensioners alone.
    tia-maria
    16th Feb 2016
    10:59am
    Pablo yes fully agree.........PM Turnbull all he wants to do is attack the retired pensioners...............cut out the dole......cut our PPL......cut of giving so muck to refugees......and stop our Politicians ripping taxpayers off all together..........with high pensions and Perks .............

    and leave the Battlers and retired pensioners alone and show respect that we deserve
    Fliss
    16th Feb 2016
    11:23am
    Strange concept to even come up with I think.
    Would like to comment though tia-maria . . . . you said "we worked bloody hard all our lives and paid taxes". Agree! I'm sure you did as I have as well. Unfortunately there are some though who have not - some people live on welfare almost all their lives & it appears that this portion of Australians is growing. This means that they will have no home to sell to repay the "loan" so again the rest of us workers support them . . . . :(
    tia-maria
    16th Feb 2016
    11:36am
    Fliss............In our days we never had to the dole........We had the Big depression back in the 40s and a job was job what ever you could get to survive..........Todays society The Dole is good money ......and many in my opinion are dole bludgers who don't want to work.......Our government should bring back in National Service make them earn dole ......the ones living on welfare these days have been on it since leaving school.........(BUT we have some great young adults who been brought up great and love to earn their way in life...

    Now stop making us the retired Pensioners feel guilty we done our hard days and paying taxes that we are entitle to an pension........Our Politicians should stop their big pensions and perks after politic.........as they earned enough.........
    and stop ripping you the taxpayers off.
    cyclonesally
    16th Feb 2016
    11:54am
    Speaking of politicians big pensions, superannuation & other lurks and perks. Will they be required to sell their homes to pay for all this? Not bloody likely. It wouldn't effect Turnbull in the slightest anyway as he currently has 7 houses & I bet they are not 3 bed, 1 bathroom, built on a small block!
    tia-maria
    16th Feb 2016
    12:20pm
    cyclonesally you hit the nail on the head.........we should all start bonding together and put a stop to our greedy politicians ripping off the taxpayers of our country.
    Anonymous
    16th Feb 2016
    1:34pm
    Agree totally Tia-maria what are we all going to do an election is happening later this year so we need some tactics as to who do we vote for??????
    Renny
    16th Feb 2016
    4:34pm
    There are over 2 million people on 457 visas in Australia employed by Carnells people to provide cheap labour. The dole has not increased for six years. There are not enough jobs because of 457 visas. I think i'm giving up on this site. The ignorance is gobsmacking. Vote for Malcolm - it will serve you right.
    roy
    18th Feb 2016
    11:41am
    Vote independent.
    BrianP
    16th Feb 2016
    10:58am
    It's happening more and more AND WE SENIORS HAVE TO BAND TOGETHER TO STOP IT before they go too far. I make no apology for strong words. What will it take to get you all to take action?

    Hands off our homes. Stop big corporations running the country and avoiding paying tax. Stop making the poor and elderly foot the bill after a lifetime of hard work. It's going from bad to worse for the older age group. Nothing will improve until we combine our efforts to vote the bastards out. Well?
    bletch
    16th Feb 2016
    11:08am
    Perhaps we need a petition to government to tell them just how we feel before it is too late?
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    11:36am
    I suggest this is the thin edge of the wedge. Carnell is probably just feeling out the electorate on behalf of her colleagues in government.
    Surely the direction of this deceitful government must be clear by now. If not then if/when the pension is gone it will be......
    Anonymous
    16th Feb 2016
    11:51am
    Who we going to put in mick shorten is the only alternative and he has no idea and voting for an idependent don"t work.
    cyclonesally
    16th Feb 2016
    11:58am
    We need an independant soley for representing the senior citizens and the elderly. Someone needs to keep the bastards honest.
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    12:03pm
    robbo you rusted on government troll. Who mentioned Shorten other than you. I'd put in anybody in preference to the lying big business controlled government we currently have. I was not aware big business were allowed to elect our governments!
    Misty
    16th Feb 2016
    1:33pm
    Yes Bletch lets all send a petition to Malcolm and let him know just how we all feel before the budget is done, does anyone know how to organize one on line?, maybe Change would do it.
    Anonymous
    16th Feb 2016
    1:42pm
    We have to stop allowing asylum seekers and others into Australia if they cannot pay their own way, I have been told they go onto welfare from day one and will continue to do so as they cannot get jobs. We cannot possibly solve the problems of other countries and their homeless we will end up the same as their war torn lands. There are billions of peoples around the world needing help but we cannot do the helping. Countries around the world have to band together and make the corrupt governments look after their own people not leave it up to other countries to solve. If the government wants to use our family home to pay back as a pension we might as well sell now and go into public housing and help our children buy their own homes and we spend up big and enjoy life.
    PlanB
    16th Feb 2016
    1:45pm
    Brien, we need someone to stand up for us and stop these fascist mongrels, they get in and think they can be all empowering -- well they have to have a wake up call.
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    2:11pm
    The ballot box designed for just that. Now talk to family and friends and get this ball rolling. Do nothing and we deserve what we get.
    KSS
    16th Feb 2016
    2:13pm
    Jannie, I agree that half the world cannot continue to absorb all-comers from the other half. The 'World' must begin looking for real solutions to the problems that put an end to the tribal warmongering from which the refugee situation arises. That will of course take the citizens from those countries putting their personal/familial differences aside and working together. The 'World' cannot do it for them. Continuing to 'accept' millions of displaced people cannot continue in perpetuity.
    Paulodapotter
    16th Feb 2016
    2:22pm
    It's always been a choice between to evils, but it doesn't have to be if you have the courage. Problem is, most of us don't have the ticker to make the right decisions. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO VOTE FOR EITHER OF THE MAJOR PARTIES. THINK ABOUT IT!
    Gra
    18th Feb 2016
    8:51am
    Paulodapotter you surely don't consider the inept Greens a worthwhile alternative do you? It's all about numbers and none of the lesser parties have the numbers to form government in their own right so what are we left with? The best we can do is elect enough independents to ensure whichever party does come to power HAS to listen to the independents to remain in power.
    Gra
    18th Feb 2016
    8:52am
    Paulodapotter you surely don't consider the inept Greens a worthwhile alternative do you? It's all about numbers and none of the lesser parties have the numbers to form government in their own right so what are we left with? The best we can do is elect enough independents to ensure whichever party does come to power HAS to listen to the independents to remain in power.
    roy
    18th Feb 2016
    11:38am
    Vote independent.
    Adrianus
    18th Feb 2016
    11:57am
    I will only join the merry band if we adopt Jannie's immigration policy. And don't vote for a Labor/Unions/Greens/Independent government. I think their Minister for Immigration Chris Bowen must have been missing in action, to have the massive blowout in numbers.
    ex PS
    19th Feb 2016
    4:40pm
    No need for a petition that they will not take any notice of, show your displeasure of the so called major partys by backing an Independant in the next election. That will get their attention.
    Play Fairly
    20th Feb 2016
    10:07am
    Brian P, Bletch, Misty, re your comments from 16/2/16.......You are so very right. We need this Petition to Malcolm Turnbull to be started, organised and submitted. Has a Petition been started as yet? I am anxious to sign and distribute to all my contacts.
    Fobwatch
    16th Feb 2016
    11:00am
    I'd never thought of Kate Carnell as evil. Clearly I was mistaken.

    Governments have been pushing to force people into tinier and tinier accommodation for years now. It's time we pushed the bullies into a pit and buried them.
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    11:37am
    When has this piece of work ever talked about anything other than tax cuts for business and the rich? She is what she is.
    Rae
    16th Feb 2016
    3:46pm
    She would be better served finding out why failing business people who only declare incomes of $18400 are driving around in porches and live in mansions on the harbour with a yacht out the front.

    Perhaps their homes could be taken to pay their proper tax bills.
    Fobwatch
    16th Feb 2016
    11:00am
    I'd never thought of Kate Carnell as evil. Clearly I was mistaken.

    Governments have been pushing to force people into tinier and tinier accommodation for years now. It's time we pushed the bullies into a pit and buried them.
    Fobwatch
    16th Feb 2016
    11:04am
    Darn yourlifechoices delay tricked me again.
    Phil1943
    16th Feb 2016
    11:07am
    Great, Kate! If we put money into a house instead of superannuation the rules at present mean homeowners can still get a pension. Fabulous idea to change the rules so we pay our own pensions using our homes as some sort of super fund. Just the kind of stuff politicians love.
    Funny how we oldies pretty much feel like our houses are about the only truly safe banks we have. But Kate and the feds may have other ideas that will turn the government into bank robbers.
    No rewards for years of saving, years of working hard, years of being thrifty - just keep hammering the seniors and ripping off their hard-earned assets.
    Don't let this one slip through. Write local members, letters to the editor and protest in every way possible. It's just the politics of envy at work again and the pollies will leverage it to buy votes from those who are too lazy to work and acquire their own homes.
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    11:41am
    Mandatory for the poor. Optional for the rich. Funny that.
    It's actually the politics of the rich, their businesses, their governments and the refusal of voters to send the correct message that IT IS NOT ON.
    ex PS
    20th Feb 2016
    9:00am
    Surely, if we are indeed expected to use our homes to pay for services thatthe government should be providing, we should be entitled to negative gear them?
    Star Trekker
    16th Feb 2016
    11:08am
    I took out an endowment policy with Mercantile Mutual 28 years ago. It has an element of Life Insurance included. It has changed so much over the years it is now Superannuation and is owned by the ANZ bank. I pay in just over $30 a month and after fees (only since the bank took over) and insurance I am left with about $17 of investment. I will not have anything like $100,000, more like $10-$15,000 when I decide to cash it in. I have been a full-time mother and carer with very little work outside the home due to my husband and 2 of my children being disabled. I still have 10 years of working life left according to the Govt. but I doubt that I will ever get back into the workforce.

    The Govt. ministers should cut their own spending before hitting pensioners again.
    AussieTuca
    16th Feb 2016
    11:16am
    Maybe we could reinstate the practice of the guillotine like in the old days in France as well. Of course, the politicians like this imbecil would be the first to try it. I would be for sure in the first row eating popcorn appreciating the show...

    Forgive me for being un-australian and politically incorrect but I have nothing to lose really at this stage...
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    11:43am
    You may be tongue in cheek but I am waiting for Julie Bishop to repeat the words of Marie Antoinette....and then laugh and cackle into the camera lens. Expect the guillotine to be flown out from France priority paid express delivery.
    Rae
    16th Feb 2016
    3:50pm
    A rope over a tree limb is more Australian.
    Hairy
    16th Feb 2016
    11:17am
    Every day persecute the pensioners.gov officials sit in luxury looking at ways to screw pensioners .this is discrimination 10 fold.what sort of humans bite the hand that has been feeding the greedy maggots.WTF
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    11:45am
    Don't complain. Get even. Ignore the electioneering propaganda from the big end of town and VOTE THE BASTARDS OUT. Convince your friends to do the same. Stand by your convictions. That's how the ballot box works.

    16th Feb 2016
    11:18am
    I think in the context of expensive homes this would be fair - but not average homes. There is certainly an issue with people who live in multi-million-dollar homes getting a pension unfairly while those who accept modest accommodation but have a few hundred thousand in the bank are cut off. There's a massive unfairness in the system. However, I don't think the answer should stop at a loan on the family home. I think they should ABANDON the assets test for people over 65 and instead use a deeming rate applied to ALL assets (including the family home) over a very generous threshold. That removes the huge unfair advantage currently offered to those who over-invest in housing or who gained from major appreciation of property in a prime location or from inheritance. Then offer a loan on concessional terms, repayable from the estate, for anyone struggling to live without a pension. It should be repayable from the estate as a whole, though, not just the family home.

    All that said, I think it's time the government stopped lying about pension affordability and recognized that we don't spend heavily on aged pensions, superannuation concessions (mostly to the wealthy) are far more costly, and most currently retired and soon to retire had no super but paid a tax levy to ensure they were supported in old age, so ARE ENTITLED to their pension.
    Fliss
    16th Feb 2016
    11:30am
    Interesting concept. :) especially bit about about abandoning the assets test & use a deeming rate, etc. Like it!

    16th Feb 2016
    11:24am
    Here's a thought - let's make all pensioners who worked their guts out to pay off a home give that home to the government on death, and then their heirs will be much poorer and more people will need larger pensions. What a good idea! Stop families working hard to ensure their offspring have a better life, and keep the poor down by taking everything the workers have worked and saved for. Meanwhile, keep giving massive superannuation concessions to the wealthy. Well, we can, can't we, if we take all the houses the battlers worked a lifetime to pay for and use the value to boost the government's bottom line?
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    11:46am
    Don't give these mongrels any ideas. This issue alone should be the next Work Choices in Australian politics.
    Rae
    16th Feb 2016
    3:57pm
    The sheer fact that a middle class arose from the income equality of the 1940s/50s/60s has been eating at them. The business lobby is responsible for the decline in real terms of wages and the awful debt workers are in now.

    16th Feb 2016
    11:24am
    Here's a thought - let's make all pensioners who worked their guts out to pay off a home give that home to the government on death, and then their heirs will be much poorer and more people will need larger pensions. What a good idea! Stop families working hard to ensure their offspring have a better life, and keep the poor down by taking everything the workers have worked and saved for. Meanwhile, keep giving massive superannuation concessions to the wealthy. Well, we can, can't we, if we take all the houses the battlers worked a lifetime to pay for and use the value to boost the government's bottom line?
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    11:26am
    Cate Carnell. Say no more. This is one of the disciples from the Business Council and she is the same person crowing for company tax cuts which favour the rich when many of her group pay no tax anyway. Now this miserable piece of work wants to cut average Australians out of their rightful pension after a lifetime of work. Of course the funds saved should go directly to tax cuts for big business and their rich owners?
    How about instead of attacking average workers the government disallows Tax Shelters of all sort including the offshore ones so many of the rich use. And then the Superannuation concessions for the wealthy need to be trimmed back to zero. And then there are the tax avoiding multinationals to collect from. Problem solved!
    The reality of life is that the rich are unabated greedy self interests people who have no soul. They have no right going after average citizens and about time the (not) Free Media went after them. Don't expect to see that happen any time soon though.

    16th Feb 2016
    11:27am
    The government's idea of me mortgaging my home in order to fund my retirement they can shove right up their arse. In regards to any loan that I might need, they can give me an interest-free loan from the interest they would have accrued from all of the income tax I've paid over my working life. This load of lazy no-accounts have got an absolute hide to even THINK of an idea like this. This "democracy" is fastly becoming a dictatorship.
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    11:48am
    The gutless bastards are using Carnell (who is one of them!) to feel out public opinion. If people don't care then it'll come in. Make some noise!
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    11:50am
    I believe I stated when Abbott was in power and wanted to sell off the ABC: Australia will become a dictatorship under this leader. Maybe I was being too kind. It will get close if voters vote this bunch of low life liars back in.
    student
    16th Feb 2016
    3:58pm
    mick,

    democracy lends itself to becoming a dictatorship. I am too tired to remember all the steps, but it's easy to become a dictatorship. Oligargacy, autrocracy.... I can't remember the spelling nor the terms, but George W Bush set the stage for dictatorship when he gave the War Cabinet power over the Government and I do not recall him ever withdrawing that power.

    As for Carnell, I wonder how she can sleep at night. She's a disgrace to human kind
    MICK
    17th Feb 2016
    1:26am
    When you wipe out all opposition and silence and opposing voice you are there. Tony Abbott sought to do this despite the fact that already we have a media which leans strongly to the right and often disseminates information which is advantageous to the left.
    student
    17th Feb 2016
    10:01am
    hey mick, I read this morning in the e-newspapers that WA is or has passed laws making it illegal to prevent or carry tools that will prevent the carrying out of certain activities (such as logging or CSG explorations).... in other words, we, the people/workers no longer have the right to protest in WA. This means no more chaining oneself to trees/machinery etc, or even lieing on the road to stop trucks etc, or even blocking the path into a building!! Give me a break!

    Nanny State?? No way, more like a dictatorship in the making.

    I'm with you mick, and I am damned mad!
    Adrianus
    17th Feb 2016
    10:27am
    Surely you two can think of other ways to create some havoc??
    Pete
    16th Feb 2016
    11:27am
    All politicians and business administrators should go away and read George Orwell's book "Animal Farm" in its entirety and then carefully self analyse as to which "animal" they really are. Let the old tired horse rest in peace.
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    11:51am
    We'll agree on that one. And yes the political system seems to have become dominated by "pigs". Sad. And dangerous.
    Rae
    16th Feb 2016
    4:01pm
    And ordinary workers should read his recount " The Road To Wigan Pier" about the absolute poverty and distress of the English miners.
    Exactly the sort of thing this Carnell wants to do to retirees here.
    bletch
    16th Feb 2016
    11:35am
    I think Kate Carnell should stick to what she knows best....like growing grass at Bruce stadium !
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    11:53am
    Repeatedly calling for tax cuts for business (=rich). That's what I hear almost every time she sticks her beak in front of a camera.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    3:43pm
    If they cut business taxes the retirees will be the first to whinge as their franking credits will fall.
    Rae
    16th Feb 2016
    4:02pm
    Come on Bonny just how many business people or companies actually pay any tax anyway?
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    4:32pm
    Lots must pay tax by the amount of franked dividends they pay.
    Misty
    16th Feb 2016
    5:27pm
    Bonny any retiree who relies on Franking Credits to help fund their retirement would have to be very very wealthy, not the ones or the majority on this site at least.
    Misty
    16th Feb 2016
    5:30pm
    Bonny how do you know who pays tax and Franked Dividends?, I wouldn't have a clue nor do I think many others commenting here would either.
    Johno
    16th Feb 2016
    11:40am
    Carnell is certainly not on the old age pension! The very well off want more and more and more at the expense of the battlers. We live in a GREEDY world! Did I read the other day that around 74 individuals own half the world's wealth? We really are on the path to self-destruction!
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    11:54am
    Use the ballot box Johno. Tell your family and mates. That is the purpose of the ballot box............not voting for your favourite 'football' team.
    Johno
    16th Feb 2016
    12:03pm
    I agree Mick. However, who to vote for? Under the two major parties, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer! The only politician I respect is Nick Xenophon. Can his new party influence? I hope so!
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    12:05pm
    Anybody other than the current one. It doesn't matter as bureaucrats put the proposals in front of pollies and THEY PICK. These guys may be good talkers but they are just not that smart.
    PlanB
    16th Feb 2016
    12:08pm
    VOTE Independent every time -- at least the big 2 do not have full control then just imagine if the big 2 had complete control
    Star Trekker
    16th Feb 2016
    12:42pm
    It doesn't work all the time PlanB. We ousted Sophie Mirabella and got Cathie McGowan. She is just as bad. Her office upgrade was over the top and she votes with the Govt. on most things. I cannot call her a watermelon as she is green on the outside and not so red in the centre.
    MICK
    17th Feb 2016
    8:45am
    The whole point about diluting the control of Liberal and Labor is that the vested interests who control individual MPs is diminished. Imagine killing the Carbon Tax if there were more Independents (not Clive) in the parliament. WE NEED MPS NOT 'OWNED' BY THE BIG END OF TOWN.
    Adrianus
    17th Feb 2016
    9:09am
    Yes mick, just think of all the industry we could close down if only we had more vengeful Independents. Gee I reckon if we had enough Independents we could almost bring this country to a standstill. Wow wouldn't that be something???
    roy
    18th Feb 2016
    11:43am
    Vote independent.

    16th Feb 2016
    11:48am
    Well we certainly got the left wingers and the Bill Shorten lovers on their high horses.

    It doesn"t sound like a bad idea to me why should people who couldn"t save enough have free money from the Government when others miss out .

    If you don"t own a house you go on food stamps as well just to even it up
    If we don"t do something like this the country will be broke.
    bletch
    16th Feb 2016
    11:55am
    Whoever said that we were Bill Shorten lovers either ?????
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    11:57am
    That you again Frank.
    You are irrelevant robbo or Frank....or whoever.
    Who cares what candidate voters choose as long as IT IS NOT THIS DISHONEST BUNCH OF BIG BUSINESS OWNED PUPPETS who are in power at present.
    By all means run your propaganda straight from Liberal Party HQ. Nobody is listening to your propaganda. Focus on the story. Not your BS.
    bletch
    16th Feb 2016
    12:06pm
    This has got nothing to do with Labor v Liberal voters, it has got to do with Australian Pensioners yet again being treated like dirt !
    PlanB
    16th Feb 2016
    12:12pm
    Wake up robbo, or are you also fascist scum like the mob in now!

    Wake up and walk in others shoes for awhile
    Wstaton
    16th Feb 2016
    12:25pm
    I guess the country will be broke if we keep on paying the $50 billion a year for negative gearing concessions (reputed to cost more than the age pension soon)

    It would appear that the people receiving this are now saying the removal will be a tax on them. So help me.
    PaTuSom
    16th Feb 2016
    1:26pm
    Ah Robbo...you finally poked your head up again!
    You do sound like that nasty piece of work Sophie Mirabella!
    PlanB
    16th Feb 2016
    1:33pm
    PaTuSom, you speak of Sophie Mirabella, OMG what a horrid, nasty and evil woman she is! She is going to stand for election again I heard, she is pure evil.
    PaTuSom
    16th Feb 2016
    1:35pm
    Yes PlanB...unfortunately, you are correct. She hasn't finished her mission yet.
    Star Trekker
    16th Feb 2016
    2:06pm
    As I live in INDI, Sophie is not my 1st, 2nd or even 3rd choice on the ballot paper. She is rude and a nasty piece of work from Melbourne that was placed in a safe Liberal seat, which she eventually lost due to the self-importance she coveted. She did nothing for the electorate. She wanted a place in the Cabinet for more money.
    PaTuSom
    16th Feb 2016
    2:47pm
    I hear you loud and clear Star Trekker, I'm in INDI as well.
    Gra
    18th Feb 2016
    9:03am
    Robbo - or is that Knobbo, just another instance of dribbling rubbish. Why should people who worked all their life to provide for their family and buy a house have it stolen from them just because they weren't fortunate enough to have been able to put away enough to enable them to be self funded retirees? What about those of us who haven't burnt our money or boozed it away but just haven't brown nosed our way into a high paying job that would have allowed us to set us up in our twilight years? There are those who through their own choices don't own their own home. Is it fair that they draw a age pension or perhaps just continue on the DSP until their last day on Earth and the government doesn't take one cent off them but if we have made sacrifices the government wants to take the thing worth most to our family?
    Adrianus
    18th Feb 2016
    9:15am
    Wstaton where did you get the $50b ?
    I thought the tax concessions attributed to "negative gearing" were around $12b ? Down from $13.8b the year before last.
    According to Shorten he can save $30b over 10 years by abolishing "negative gearing" so I'm wondering about the source of your data? Did you hear it from mick perhaps?
    PlanB
    16th Feb 2016
    12:00pm
    When I hear things such as this it makes me see bloody red! I and so many others have worked their arses off for years, done without to pay off the debt of our homes and paid taxes all our working lives, AND looked after our sick and dying relatives – that also saved the Government many $$ and they want to now take our homes! Well they can all get stuffed and I will fight like hell to stop this. They never cease to try and bash the battlers, greedy hard hearted scum is what they are!
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    12:06pm
    And the dimwits amongst us vote them in when they run their lying propaganda adds on prime time TV. So who is to blame?
    PlanB
    16th Feb 2016
    12:21pm
    Anyone that believe the propaganda they see/ hear on main stream media are naive, they need to see just what these scum are doing, selling out our country and crawling to the big business --it is BIG BUSINESS that runs the government, WAKE UP people
    Wstaton
    16th Feb 2016
    12:38pm
    It has been said that if all the volunteers, people looking after their sick relatives saves the country over $100 billion a year. What if people stopped this. The country would really be in strife.

    I have heard people praising the likes of Warnes because at least he is helping to get some money for the disadvantaged (a measly 16% of returns) Contributions by most of the rich pales in comparison to what the volunteers give.

    Apart from that all most of the rich and so called celebrities want is to look good. Conversely there are many rich people who do give but they want to remain in the background and not flaunt their giving to obtain praise.

    What gets me about negative gearing is that was supposed to promote the availability of rental accommodation. Nearly all houses bought are established houses so how is that promoting more rental they are already their.

    I quite agree it should only be on new housing and then only for a certain period.
    KSS
    16th Feb 2016
    2:22pm
    Wstaton; Mr Turnbull is reportedly considering a cap on the number of properties people can have under negative gearing rather than Mr Shorten's restriction to new properties. Perhaps that might 'free-up' housing stock for purchase if it they were no longer cost effective 'investments'?
    bobby
    16th Feb 2016
    12:08pm
    Another area that should be looked at is the cost of subsidising migrants. Both political parties are the cause of this problem. In my street a migrant family is renting a brick home at $900 per fortnight paid by the Government. An Australian pensioner couple renting a home receives a maximum of only $186.80. Maybe the Government should look closer at this, not bignote itself on the world stage, and leave the battlers alone. I might add the husband refuses to attend english language classes and refuses to find a job. With all benefits the family is receiving $2000 per fortnight.
    PlanB
    16th Feb 2016
    12:13pm
    OMG bobby it makes one wonder how these mongrel Governments minds work!?
    jackie
    16th Feb 2016
    12:24pm
    I have seen migrant couples live off welfare for years, whilst raising large families and never having pressure put on them to lift a finger whilst they have been rorting the system in a cash in hand industry.
    Anonymous
    16th Feb 2016
    1:44pm
    That makes me feel sick to the core Bobby this is totally unfair.
    fearlessfly
    16th Feb 2016
    12:13pm
    Jeez, I get so flaming furious when reading these brain-dead pronouncements aimed at ripping off Pensioners even more ! Usually the big mouth assholes coming out with this crap are probably earning over $300,000 a year, with massive superannuation balances !!
    fearlessfly
    16th Feb 2016
    3:38pm
    Just sent an email off to ACCI with a link to this discussion, just to make sure they get to read our posts !
    Gee Whiz
    16th Feb 2016
    12:17pm
    I believe Kate Carnell is a very wealthy person. Not only that but she is paid an exorbitant salary as CEO of ACCI.

    I never ceased to be amazed as the stupidity of the rich, who hold positions of power, telling pensioners and the destitute that they have too much money and do not deserve the pension.

    Kate Carnell has a big mouth and a small brain. She has made it her life's work to continually pick on pensioners and poorly paid. That's what the rich and Malcolm Turnbull do continually.



    Malcolm Turnbull is another prime example.
    jackie
    16th Feb 2016
    12:21pm
    What I don't understand is our government is happy to provide the aged pension to elderly Chinese that have never worked a day in this country. Their millionaire children should be keeping them instead of Australian tax payers.
    Ayin
    16th Feb 2016
    12:22pm
    Carnell seems to be lacking in knowledge however let us examine what the current crop have that was paid for by the aged pensioner, roads, transport, telecommunications network, we were not paid the baby bonus, had to pay our own uni fees(no hecs) that many do not repay. When the PMG was split and telstra was given the existing cabling that had been paid for by us. The hospitals and schools all came from now pensioners. So if you want my pension as a loan then repay us what we invested via taxes at compound interest for 60 or 70 years and add into the mix the amount of voluntary work done by today's pensioners over their lifetime. Then you deny us a dignified end when we have a terminal illness.
    Tezza
    16th Feb 2016
    12:31pm
    Easier to target law abiding senior cits. than to target dole bludgers and those falsely claiming disability pensions.
    bubba
    16th Feb 2016
    12:41pm
    I am not very good at writing comments, but why should the pension who has saved all their working life have to pay when Big Business don't pay half the tax the workers paid all their life plus if the politicians should look at their own perks and cut them down a bit and leave the pensioner alone and stop giving money to overseas country's and keep the money here let their own government support them
    Cruiser
    16th Feb 2016
    12:44pm
    This idea can be used to the advantage of pensioners? We currently have reverse mortgage as an option, why not replace the banks with the Government treasury, interest rates set at current deeming rates, fully optional whether to take out the loan or not, pension rates remain the same. Government may score as the asset/income rules will reduce the pension, pensioner may score by being able to spend down the bucket list in the last few years of active life. Maybe there is a silver lining??
    Lyn
    16th Feb 2016
    12:48pm
    It is not too difficult for the govt to tackle tax avoidance in large corporations and multinationals PatTuSom, they just don't want to do it and upset their wealthy mates.
    One day they will have to as there will be no opportunities left to slug the ordinary TP and small businesses in the future . What will they do then?
    Wstaton
    16th Feb 2016
    2:49pm
    I just want to say one thing about these tax avoiding companies specially the overseas ones. Pay your tax due or P**s off we don't want you.

    It would not break us if there was no Apple here.I don't like their product anyway to restrictive.

    Same goes for google.

    People here are so sucked into there products they think they could not survive without them. Of course you can there are plenty of other alternatives.

    We are a sovereign country, supposed to be able to make our own laws for the benefit of OUR people not for the benefit of outsiders.

    But wait! Haven't we given away some of our sovereignty through the TPP.

    There should have been a clause in there somewhere that states "Except when a company does not pay all eligible taxes from earnings in that country"
    redtop
    16th Feb 2016
    12:50pm
    Let's not forget the pension is a return on investment for many hard years worked, it is not a handout. I'm self funded so I want my contribution back since I started working at 14. Kate should go back to the fundamentals of the scheme and have a read..
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    7:15pm
    As pension is same for everyone who qualifies and it has nothing to do with a return on investment of anything.
    tgreig
    16th Feb 2016
    12:52pm
    I've read with interest all the comments and to my mind, there are several ways the Government could save money. Why not make the laws of this country much stronger, harder. If anyone offends, make them serve their full sentence. Yes, the gaols would be overflowing, BUT bring back corporal punishment. That WILL deter the majority of people breaking laws. If any migrant comes in who cannot speak simple English after one year, then SEND THEM BACK. Give them a year to assimilate with us, then if they haven't a job, SEND THEM BACK. (98% Afghanis do not work). Make them apply for jobs and make it appealing for companies to employ them. If they break any laws (serious) SEND THEM BACK IMMEDIATELY. Make all politicians and chief executives (Telstra???) refrain from accepting pay rises for five years. Make all companies who do not pay tax (IKEA, QANTAS, VIRGIN), pay tax or close them down. This should generate quite a lot of the cash they are looking for.
    'Chelle03
    16th Feb 2016
    12:58pm
    I am really at a loss for words to explain the complete and utter disgust I feel when reading this BS! The greed, arrogance and total disdain that politicians; top end corporates and big business show towards the general public astounds me. Just remember you bunch of self serving scumbags - it was the 'worker' who made Australia into the profitable nation that is was before you SOB's destroyed it.
    Howard
    16th Feb 2016
    1:10pm
    These governments amaze me. I wonder who is doing all the heavy lifting & who is caught up in the finish of the age of entitlement? The heavy lifting seems to be by the lower paid & the age pensioners. I agree with the majority of comments here but the trouble is to be able to get a voice out in the public area that will put pressure on the Pollies. The media takes no notice & there seems to be nothing in the papers other than the odd letter to the editor? The pollies really are doing some of the heavy lifting in that they got a 2% pay rise which would be about $4000 on the lower paid plus of course all their PERKS, all of which the taxpayer is paying for. I read somewhere that they are the highest paid Pollies in the world?? I am unable to justify their policy in relation to these lawful & unlawful immigrants who, if I understand correctly, are drawing more money & chattels than pensioners, who have paid tax all their lives???? We need to somehow get a big voice out in the public arena that give the Pollies the understanding that unless their thoughts & actions change markedly then the large voting block of retired & age pensioners will join together to get them out of office even though Bill Shorten does not give the impression that he would make a good P.M. I did write to a pollie with reference to these problems & part of the answer was that they didn't get a rise in pay the year before last. Whoopee Do. One thing that seems to be clear at the moment is that they have reduced the amount at which you can get a part pension. They have also reduced the amount you will get, as for every $1000 you have, between the minimum & maximum they have decreased the amount that you are going to receive by 50%!!!! SHOUT LOUD & CLEAR
    eileenellen
    16th Feb 2016
    1:19pm
    it is shameful and if people have been astute and worked hard to buy their property then why should they have to have a new loan. I bought my house for 70000 but now it is worth more in todays dollars. I went without trips, outings entertainment to pay the house off and give the kids a good education. Yes I think I should have the interest they earn on my tax. the big companies should pay their share of tax. And the pollies entitlements should be curbed.
    Happy Jack
    16th Feb 2016
    1:31pm
    The animal farm is flourishing! the rats are, having smelt out the opposition on a GST and deciding they didn't have the guts to attempt an increase, are putting out the feelers on another possible move on pensioners and self funded retirees. They will do all in their power to avoid hitting the big end of town and in particular those that are on the same gravy train streams as themselves. JUST HOW MANY GEARED PROPERTIES DO THESE POLLIE"S OR THEIR SPOUSES OWN! bloody good question to which I bet there's no answer forthcoming. The key indicator to their way of thinking is given away by Moaning morrie's comment- 'we need to look after those that are contributing in the work force'. In other words, Pensioners and self funded retiree's can get stuffed- this is the animal farm, you lot are off to the knackery.
    TREBOR
    16th Feb 2016
    6:52pm
    http://theconversation.com/politicians-hold-300m-in-property-so-how-should-they-influence-housing-policy-30206

    that might help HJ....

    "Australian politicians are keen property owners. Data compiled by Lindsay David, Deakin University’s Philip Soos and Paul Egan from the parliamentary register of members’ interests shows the 226 members of federal parliament (both houses) have an ownership stake in some 563 properties."
    PaTuSom
    16th Feb 2016
    1:32pm
    Kate Carnell, only to be expected! She made a dog's breakfast of her time in Canberra...hospital demolition, Bruce stadium...and now seems to be acting as tool, very willingly to test the waters for her troglodytes mates.
    Rae
    16th Feb 2016
    9:15pm
    She should be forced to resign after this very bad attack on retirees.
    petergrimbeek
    16th Feb 2016
    1:34pm
    Hopefully this will further sour the electoral response to Governments and policies that target the poor, the ill, the young and the aged.
    Gazza51
    16th Feb 2016
    1:34pm
    And what's the plan for pensioners as they get older, more infirm and probably need some form of care. If they sell their house, how much will need to be repaid. What are you left with to enter a retirement home - ahh, that's right can't afford it by then so end up living where??? It would seem to me that if people were actually paid more on a pension then more money would be in the economy generating jobs and more profits for the big end of town - so is Kate kneecapping her ACCI buddies?
    nena
    16th Feb 2016
    1:34pm
    Oh NO!!!...Hopefully I die soon...so I could take my little unit (for which I painfully got by taken a mortgage from one home to the next for decades) with me...to haven...
    mangomick
    16th Feb 2016
    1:35pm
    Instead of making the pension a loan that they take back off the value of my home when I kick it why don't they just put a little bit of the $40000 I'm paying in tax every year so they can give it back to me later as a payment. I've got a good name for it as well. Let's call it a Pension. Sounds to me like they are bringing in a death duty that misses the real wealthy and the real poor. Funny that how these schemes always miss the real wealthy.
    nena
    16th Feb 2016
    1:44pm
    Instead, so much money could be saved if politicians look at their extravagant spending on travelling...and everything else...But of course...the big corporations which run the show have to be “feed” by big spending so they get richer and donate to the parties.
    Fairness
    16th Feb 2016
    1:46pm
    Like changing the distance of a race at the last minute (for horses or humans) to ensure most favourable result for whoever punter might be! In this scenario The Age Pensioner must lose.... They don't have time on their side.The government will continue exploitation of the have nots to feather their own nests!

    16th Feb 2016
    1:48pm
    OUR CURRENT GOVERNMENT HAS TO GO AND I MUST ADD THE LABOUR PARTY ARE NOT MUCH BETTER, TACTICS NEED TO BE IN PLACE AS TO HOW TO VOTE LATER THIS YEAR, I AM SO FRUSTRATED WITH ALL OF OUR POLLIES NOT SEEING THE BIG PICTURE, THEY SHOULD BE MADE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE SO CALLED DEFICIT GIVING MONEY AWAY TO MIGRANTS AND NOT HELPING THE HOMELESS HERE. WE DO NOT HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO BRING THE HOARDS INTO OZ - STOP IMMIGRATION NOW.
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    2:16pm
    Vote Independent!
    If I had to pick between Labor and LNP then remember that Labor is NOT working for big business and the rich. Whilst not real good Labor will not take your home. This government will and is lining up to do so.
    Not Amused
    16th Feb 2016
    1:51pm
    Any political party that tries to get its hands on the family home is nailing together its own coffin. Yesterday they are creating disincentives for those who choose to put any spare hard-earnedfunds into buying an existing rental property thereby reducing the stock of private rentals available and opening the door to a flood of taxpayer funded housing applications. Today we get the incentive not to even bother buying a home because Joe up the street who never worked and never will, gets everything for free, including cheap accommodation. But that's just for now because no-one will go through the slog of buying a home with all the upkeep costs, rates etc. if they keep whacking people around the head for being thrifty and thinking about their future. The people who always relied on low-cost taxpayer subsidised accommodation probably will have got it right. If they start heavying people who slaved and went without so they would have a choice of where to live in their old age they will find that very few people will even bother. They will simply join the never-ending queue for taxpayer subsidised housing and my bet is (a) there won't be enough to go around and then (b) social chaos.
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    2:16pm
    Want some nails?
    TREBOR
    16th Feb 2016
    1:52pm
    What an idiotic idea coming from the mouth of one already overpaid and under-worked and just another useless mouth. How about we put your fat salary and super perks as a loan to come out of your estate when you go? When we want your idiotic opinion, LOVE - we'll ask for it, but I can assure you that cold day in Hell is a long, long way off.

    We've paid for our Pensions with a lifetime of work - you could try it some time.

    It is people like this who are the problem with this country with their entitlement mentality and assumption of some superiority through being a privileged brat.
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    2:19pm
    The question readers should be asking is WHY is the media pushing this? Sounds to me like the media is a player, not a reporter of the news.
    We need to be very very careful of the 'news'. Much of it is right wing propaganda and also leaves out much from the left. The ABC does report.......and then gets slammed as leftist by those who control the game.
    Watch and ye shall understand.............
    TREBOR
    16th Feb 2016
    2:47pm
    I've studied terrorism/counter-terrorism - part of it is the influence and input of the media in many ways.... this kind of thing is like a terrorist attack - the actual thing may be relatively small in itself, but the amount of coverage blows it up into a biggie that frightens everyone.

    Seems the idea that a class war is going on may not be far from the truth.

    I'm (again) half-way to standing in the next election as either a Republican or an Independent..... don't expect to win and have no money.. but I'm angry enough to go for it.
    Rae
    16th Feb 2016
    9:19pm
    Surprisingly I'm growing angry enough to stand as an Independent myself TREBOR. These clowns need a real shaking up.
    Waiting to retire at 70
    16th Feb 2016
    1:53pm
    Kate doesn't realise Australians want to live in a COMMUNITY, not on her balance sheet. Clearly what she lacks in common sense and empathy she makes us for in self esteem
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    2:20pm
    You can live in ant community you want. Cantrell and her rich cohort just want your money to fund tax cuts for business and the rich.
    Fobwatch
    16th Feb 2016
    1:55pm
    Rainey, you don't get it. House prices are grossly inflated. If I pay off a modest house and by the time I retire the neighbourhood is gentrified and land values escalate, why should I have to pay high rates and be considered a millionaire even though my income is barely enough to put instant noodles on the table?

    It's all about income. Non-performing assets don't count.

    Deeming is lying.
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    2:21pm
    I know where you are coming from.
    Anonymous
    16th Feb 2016
    3:37pm
    Fobwatch, I get it entirely. But if Fred owns a $1 million dollar house and has $300,000 in the bank, he gets a full pension, whereas Joe has a $300,000 house and $1 million in the bank, gets nothing. How is that fair or reasonable?

    There's a massive inherent unfairness in the current system. And non-performing assets DO count for the assets test, unless they happen to be your family home. Many are experiencing cruel hardship because their non-performing assets are disqualifying them from pension benefits, and it will get worse in Jan 2017.

    What I am suggesting isn't going to impose hardship on anyone, and would only apply to valuable homes where the resident is getting a pension that is clearly unfairly received given their net worth.

    If it were all about income, as you say, people who have incomes of $20,000 a year wouldn't be faced with losing their pension because they have $600,000 in assets other than their home. It ISN'T all about income. And the assets test is grossly unfair. I'm merely suggesting ways to remedy the unfairness WITHOUT causing hardship and WITHOUT persecuting battlers who spent their lives paying off their home.

    Owners of multi-million dollar properties who have little income could be paid a pension - as a concessional rate LOAN against the excess value of their home. Either that, or STOP the discrimination against people who have other non-returning assets.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    4:01pm
    I agree Rainey the house most inequitable part of the aged pension. We have people living in houses way too big for their needs now because if they downsize they get less pension or lose it.
    Andy
    16th Feb 2016
    2:05pm
    god I can not understand why people in (high places) all say age pension is costing so much, fact is governments owe the age pension scheme millions. one smart mr Howard put age pension into welfare for 2 reasions, 1 to use millions of dollars in the age pension scheme to prop up unemployment welfare, and other debts. 2 to make his government look good. "to hell with the old people" My pension will be okay. Somebody has to get some guts and stand up to these crooks.
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    2:23pm
    Because they are 'owned' by rich vested interests and WILL NOT tax multinationals and the rich properly and WILL NOT end the superannuation rorts from the rich. Easier to attack those who have not much else than their own home. Called CORRUPTION at work.
    We need a federal ICAC to stop the game.
    Blondie
    16th Feb 2016
    2:07pm
    So many great comments here, from some hard working, honourable elder Australians. When listening to Kate Carnell's idea re reverse mortgaging the home of pensioners to pay them a pension, I was gob smacked! There's a touch of the " angry ant" about this woman, ( having seen her " pronouncements" on Q&A, and such.....my generation ( born 1942) are called the " Builders" ( baby boomers are younger) and possessing a long memory, despite the mistakes Labor makes whilst in power, it appears to me, that the Liberals have become
    an almost fascist, elitist group, who think nothing of sucking the funds from anywhere they can. Pensioners, or in their words, the " leaners" are an easy target, as they are viewed as having no power as a sector. Why do they get away with it? The great Australian disease: TERMINAL APATHY! If we all decided to band together into say, the Grey Coalition, or Respect Your Elders, ....or, ( I'm sure any of you could invent a good name!) then, we presented ALL politician do with a list of "Elder Rights", and a group of representatives could
    be seen, interviewed, photographed, etc GIVING the list TO the politicians, that could be a beginning of a new respect for " We, the Elders"?
    PaTuSom
    16th Feb 2016
    2:14pm
    Yes Blondie...Kate Carnell does appear as "angry ant", bordering on messianic, self righteous, preaching and downright patronising!
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    2:24pm
    Pretty well describes it. Criminals dressed up in business suits I'd say.
    TREBOR
    16th Feb 2016
    2:56pm
    Peasants in Armani.... and psychopaths to boot.
    Rae
    16th Feb 2016
    10:01pm
    Bet Kate Carnell doesn't suggest reverse mortgaging business owners homes to pay back business grants and tax concessions.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2016
    6:34am
    Now there's a smart idea, Rae. Perhaps you should write to all our eminent politicians, and some journalists, suggesting it? While you are about it, how about adding that the multi-millionaire retirees who got massive superannuation tax concessions can hand over their houses to repay the unfair tax concessions they received.

    Alternately, how about the government give back the tax levy we all paid to fund our retirement, WITH interest? You know, the billions Fraser stole, and the levy all taxpayers have continued to pay since that theft, that was SPECIFICALLY EARMARKED to pay for retirement.

    Funny how the selfish, arrogant rich claim their super is THEIRS, despite being heavily subsidized by taxpayers, but those of us who didn't have super but paid into a government-run retirement scheme, trusting that that money would fund our retirement, are told the pension is ''welfare'' and we have no right to it, but must sacrifice everything we worked for over a lifetime just to eat in old age. What DISGUSTING people they are!
    disillusioned
    16th Feb 2016
    2:14pm
    Get rid of excessive tax benefits for Big Business and pollies' perks, and we could easily fund the Age Pension. A loan? No sir, A RIGHT!!!
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    2:26pm
    From a right wing government???
    Remember that right wing governments rarely enact anything for anyone other than the well off. The decades long chant: "less tax"....for the rich.
    Radar
    16th Feb 2016
    2:17pm
    Maybe we can get rid of carnell & her department that would save a billion $.
    Koro
    16th Feb 2016
    2:23pm
    Nice one - once again, the harder you work and look after yourself and your family, the old "good guys run last" applies.

    What about those that have never saved and gone without to put a roof over families' heads and not relied on government housing, welfare etc until retirement age when they seek an "aged pension" after paying tax for all their working life.

    How much tax do big businesses (and their millionaire owners) pay?

    How much in wages and benefits do retired parliamentarians feast on in their twilight years?

    No words can describe such disgusting thoughts in respect of looking after (?) our elders in their twilight years when they deserve at least a roof over their heads, good food in their tummies and decent health care.!!!
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    2:27pm
    Well you know who NOT to vote for.....and if you do, enjoy! Pass on the good news.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    3:20pm
    If you worked and saved so hard why are you concerned as you would not be eligible for the pension anyway.
    student
    16th Feb 2016
    4:10pm
    Bonny, I am prepared to say everyone works hard in their working life. However, life is not equal and everyone does not have the same opportunities. It is dreadfully unfair to lay your standards and breaks in life on everyone else. I have three brothers ..1 is wealthy, another is VERY wealthy and the 3rd is a hard working farmer. My parents did the best they could for us but doors that opened for brothers 1 and 2 were not opened for brother #3. No, he is not on the pension, but nor is he well or well-off. Life is good .. but not fair.
    KSS
    16th Feb 2016
    6:41pm
    You are right student. Life is NOT fair. Never was, never will be. There will always be some better or worse off. That's life.
    student
    17th Feb 2016
    10:19am
    I agree KSS. Life has been good to me and I am lucky. I am content with my lot but I do get very passionate when I read or hear of people being penalised for not being rich. I get angry when benefits are being taken away from the needy. The networking being done by our politicians that costs the tax payer $millions/annum,is like pig swill. Yes we need business but we need our (the countries) fair share of return too. What about those who haven't been able to pay for their own home over their working life?? What happens to them? Here in Sydney, they are being moved out of their low rent homes because now their homes are super valuable. They were placed in public housing in an area that was not desirable, but now is worth a motza. They are leaving their support group and everything familiar to them including medical services.

    This is unfair and, in my view, immoral. I own my home and have done so for a few years, but I still do not feel safe.
    Adrianus
    17th Feb 2016
    10:54am
    student, home ownership doesn't necessarily equate to a country's living standard.
    Australia has a reasonably high ownership rate of around 67%. Mexico 80%. Greece 75%. Germany 53%. Switzerland 44%.
    Those figures are based on number of dwellings owned by occupants.
    Paulodapotter
    16th Feb 2016
    2:23pm
    It's always been a choice between to evils, but it doesn't have to be if you have the courage. Problem is, most of us don't have the ticker to make the right decisions. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO VOTE FOR EITHER OF THE MAJOR PARTIES. THINK ABOUT IT!
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    2:32pm
    It's always been the choice between a party which actually builds something FOR THE NATION and the other which is always looking to impose new taxes on workers whilst giving the rich tax cuts...to be paid for by workers.
    I hate both sides and routinely advocate Independents. If I had to take sides I'd be going for the party which actually does something for average citizens: superannuation, universal health coverage, NBN, Gonski, fixing run down public schools and hospitals, etc. Sorry about the list. You sort of get the gist. You'll only ever get the LNP to do anything if there is a benefit in it for the rich.
    bletch
    16th Feb 2016
    2:32pm
    As much as I hate to do it but perhaps as a protest we take the Donkey vote to vote informal as a way of showing our disgust in the treatment of pensioners.
    Paulodapotter
    16th Feb 2016
    3:29pm
    Mick, that's idealistic of you, but change only comes about when people make hard choices. A choice between the two major parties is a cop out. My ol'dMum always said she believes she had to vote for the lesser of two evils. I've always said we should vote for decency and truth (or as close as we can get to it). The two major parties have strayed so far from the truth and decency, it defies my comprehension that anyone with half a brain and some knowledge would vote for either of them. Neither places building something for our nation at the forefront of their decisionmaking. Political survival is their first loyalty. This is a country that has enough choice that you DO NOT HAVE TO VOTE FOR EITHER OF THE TWO MAJOR PARTIES. IN FACT, YOU WILL BE DOING THIS COUNTRY AN ENORMOUS SERVICE IF YOU DON'T. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY PEOPLE CAN BRING ABOUT CHANGE IN THE MAJOR PARTY'S APPROCAH TO POLITICS AND THEIR FOCUS ON NATIONHOOD.
    MICK
    17th Feb 2016
    8:51am
    I don't know very many pollies who could have the word 'decency' attached to them. The reality of our system is that by voting either Labor or Liberal you are supporting corruption. It will never end when voters keep jumping from one side to the other. Only way out of the mess is to vote in heaps of Independents and THEN CHANGE THE ELECTION FUNDING LAWS SO THAT BIG BUSINESS CANNOT BUY POLITICIANS. Neither side of politics would ever touch that one.
    Not Amused
    16th Feb 2016
    2:24pm
    I met a lovely young Japanese woman who had studied international law in the Hague. She was in Australia for the first time as a young adult doing further studies. I asked her what do you know about Australia? Reply, "Australia Asian country now," and, "Australians hate all politicians". Here for one month, and summed it up in one sentence.
    Anonymous
    16th Feb 2016
    2:31pm
    AGREE WITH HER COMMENTS
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    2:33pm
    Smart woman. Did you ask her what was going to happen in the future when our population grew to a sizeable number and we need our farming land back to feed our own? That would have been an interesting answer.
    Paulodapotter
    16th Feb 2016
    3:31pm
    She would have said, "Huh?"
    Gee Whiz
    16th Feb 2016
    4:58pm
    Spot on little Asian lady.

    We not only hate them we detest them. Much like maggots and blowfly's.

    I've been around for a long time and haven't met a good one yet.

    16th Feb 2016
    2:26pm
    She states run away spending on the aged pensions what about way out of control spending on immigrants and pollies retirement entitlements???????????????
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    2:35pm
    Might have been good if somebody had raised the question of rich and multinationals paying the CORRECT amount of tax......the figure before the frauds perpetrated by the big boys were initiated.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    6:55pm
    But the statistics say she is TOTALLY WRONG about ''runaway spending on aged pensions''. Our spending on aged pensions is very low by world standards and NOT expected to increase substantially in the next decade. If compulsory super is managed properly, aged pension costs will start to decrease after that. She should try getting her facts right before shooting her mouth off with idiotic proposals.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    2:34pm
    This would be a good move in the right direction. The house is the most inequitable part of the pension system and needs addressing.
    MICK
    16th Feb 2016
    2:36pm
    Starting with yours.
    PaTuSom
    16th Feb 2016
    2:39pm
    Read the comments Bonny...we ARE addressing the issue!
    bletch
    16th Feb 2016
    2:41pm
    Oh my God, the sleeping parasite (Bonny) has returned to kick
    all the pensioners in the guts yet again!
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    2:45pm
    I am addressing the issue and I have said all along that the house needs to be accounted for within the pension system. It's is so inequitable that it is grossly unfair.

    As I don't get the pension I don't have loan to pay back to the taxpayer.

    Kate is right the pension should be paid back out the proceeds of the house after death.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    2:46pm
    Sorry haven't been sleeping just been busy getting on with life and changing the world into a better place for all.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    2:47pm
    Sorry haven't been sleeping just been busy getting on with life and changing the world into a better place for all.
    PaTuSom
    16th Feb 2016
    2:49pm
    We maybe old...but we are not deaf, stop repeating yourself!
    bletch
    16th Feb 2016
    2:51pm
    Well Bonny if you had your way you would employ compulsory euthanasia to all pensioners at retiring age also to save you and your mates some money !!!
    PaTuSom
    16th Feb 2016
    2:52pm
    So...Joan of Arc Bonny, where do we (old and frail, past the use by date) fit in that "better world" of yours?
    bletch
    16th Feb 2016
    2:56pm
    Probably on an Indian Reservation somewhere ???????
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    2:59pm
    Ha Ha So I hit the button twice and they have taken away the delete button to fix.
    TREBOR
    16th Feb 2016
    3:01pm
    Thanks for the laugh, 'Bonny'....

    Nothing inequitable about paying for your own home and wanting to live there while drawing the pension you paid for. Only a few get to pump lazy money into a mansion and then try to draw pension - those are the one you need to address.

    Who are you today? The lady with the $400k super accumulated in thirteen years who gets $80k a year, the pension drawer, or the person with nothing who somehow manages to live high on the hog, or the person with all these hidden investments flying under the radar and paying no tax?

    You are always welcome to draw pension, alongside all the others, and pay full income tax on all income generated above that figure.... that's put paid to all the rorts.
    Wstaton
    16th Feb 2016
    3:02pm
    And kicking the unrich is making a better place for all is it Bonney
    Wstaton
    16th Feb 2016
    3:05pm
    It's now called the "remove" button Bonney
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    3:17pm
    Trebor. You aren't even close with your scenarios. I told you I live on a country estate with my toy boy and housekeeper. The amount of money someone earns is irrelevant as it is what happens to that money that makes the difference. For example if you produce all your own food then you don't need much to live on but if you like to eat at fancy restaurants then you needs lots of money.

    Unfortunately I am not welcome to draw a pension.

    I really can't see what the problem is here as once you are dead your house is of no use to you anyway so why not use it to pay back your pension.
    Anonymous
    16th Feb 2016
    3:19pm
    You are right Bonny and why don"t we take away a vote for anyone who is receiving welfare/pension/dole as they do not contribute to the economy they are only trying to break the country.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    3:25pm
    Why do you want to vote any way? I don't vote as I don't like either party.
    TREBOR
    16th Feb 2016
    4:08pm
    You could vote for me next election as a Republican Independent or Party..... if I stand you'll hear about it.... out will come all the same old lies and cheating that actually make it mandatory for me to take a stand at some time - for the better future of this country.
    student
    16th Feb 2016
    4:29pm
    You don't vote Bonny????? Gosh, that means you are letting other people vote for you and then you have the gall to complain!! Would you believe there are more than two political partys??

    There you go again ... not everyone can grow their own food for whatever reason. And for your information, poor people do not go to restaurants, they go to the back door after closing time in the hope of getting a hand-out.

    May I ask if you own your property and when you die, who gets it??
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    4:49pm
    I don't actually own a property so I guess it depends who is around when I die who gets to live here. I don't go to restaurants either as I don't like the food they serve these days. It's looks more like art and tastes like I imagine art would too.

    I'm not complaining about anything as I think that welfare should be a loan be paid out of the proceeds of your house when you die. You are the ones complaining about this.

    A vote is a vote for either party no matter how you do it.
    Misty
    16th Feb 2016
    5:43pm
    Bonny you said you haven't been sleeping well maybe that is the problem, try to get a good 8 hours sleep and maybe then you will look at all this with fresh eyes and come up with a different answer.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    5:48pm
    I don't have a problem sleeping and actually enjoy getting up early and embracing the day. Maybe others could take your advice.
    peedee
    16th Feb 2016
    6:41pm
    Lots of fun on this thread today. So Bonny I have never replied to you but I am intrigued. You seem to be all out for asking those that saved to pay it back,which they already do, you have previously indicated that you borrow money to make money ( negative geared?) you don't own a house but live in someone else's, you have so much that you do not qualify for a part pension but you hide your funds in a testimonial trust. Lady you've got it made!!
    Star Trekker
    16th Feb 2016
    6:47pm
    I think Bonny means a "testamentary trust".
    She got her money from someone else.
    KSS
    16th Feb 2016
    6:49pm
    Although I have sometimes agreed with Bonny at times in the past, I now understand why she is so vehement about including the home in the asset test. She doesn't own one!

    Seems to me people fall into 2 distinct camps on this issue, those that own their home (and most want to keep it at any cost to hand down to children and not actually capitalise on it to fund retirement and old age) and those who don't (and seem to resent those that do).
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    10:52pm
    No don't have a testamentary trust and didn't get any money from anyone else. I do own property but don't live in any of it. I don't negatively gear as that is just another way of making a loss and I hate making losses.

    I do have a small amount if my wealth in super but not enough for changes to super to worry me greatly. Super to me is not a good investment even with it's tax advantages.

    Yes I do want the house included in the assets test as it's just so unfair and inequitable under the current rules. I see too many people today abusing this inequity to the extreme.
    Adrianus
    17th Feb 2016
    8:15am
    We all get our money from someone else Star Trekker.
    MICK
    17th Feb 2016
    8:55am
    If I didn't know better I'd say Bonny was a blond blond. Unbelievable.
    The issue keeps coming back down to who you ingratiate: the rich or ordinary citizens. Given that 1% of us owns around 90% of everything I would have thought that the perverse game of giving more to the wealthy would not be on the table. Silly me.
    student
    17th Feb 2016
    10:26am
    ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Bonny, I find you and your comments very interesting. There are books written about you and people like you. I prefer Jung to Freud, but they all have you covered.
    Adrianus
    17th Feb 2016
    11:08am
    student, don't tell me that you are jealous of Bonny's lifestyle? She has no money worries and living on a ponderosa with a housemaid and a toy boy. What's wrong with that?
    I must tell you that after I read Freud's "interpretation of dreams" I decided to do all my dreaming during the day, and not at night. I have perfected it to the point that I can sometimes go lucid.
    LiveItUp
    17th Feb 2016
    1:03pm
    Isn't it funny that if people don't think you fit the mould they will do anything to break it? Ok if my lifestyle seems crazy to you so be it but I wouldn't swap it for quids.

    I guess years ago I did do some dreaming and then found out how to make those dreams a reality. Yes I do have money worries in that I now have to stop others from trying to steal it.

    By the way I wish I was blond but age seems to have changed my hair to another colour and it's not a blue rinse. So I'm now in my grow old gracefully years.
    Adrianus
    17th Feb 2016
    1:20pm
    Bonny, I don't think your lifestyle is odd at all. That's what I still love about this country. We still have the freedom to enjoy and celebrate our differences. Free from the real bigots. Those who would have us behaving according to popular opinion. The small thinkers who grab the high moral ground to try and bring you down. They may not realise that you cant bring someone down and be up at the same time.
    As Abbott would say you cant speed up the slow lane by slowing down the fast lane.
    Gra
    18th Feb 2016
    6:43pm
    Bonny is actually Kate Carnell's psuedonym.
    Gra
    18th Feb 2016
    6:53pm
    We don't ALL get our money from someone else Frank. Some of us have done the hard yards and what we have is what we have earned and built up for ourselves during our working life. Unfortunately not ALL of us landed in positions which allowed us to build up million dollar super funds or buy million dollar homes, the majority of us are just your average folk who have worked hard to have a decent life and hopefully be able to leave our kids an inheritance which was something we didn't get.
    Adrianus
    18th Feb 2016
    7:11pm
    Gra, I understand your aspirations. I understand all too well. It's a nice feeling to be able to give the kids a leg up. It doesn't need to be much, but that little bit means so much in many ways.
    You worked for your money like most of us. Your employer gave you that money. IE someone else gave you that money. You cannot get away from that fact. What maybe in contention with some posters is that they don't think some have made enough sacrifice for the money received. That is Star Trekkers issue with Bonny. Personally I don't have an issue with the way people acquire wealth providing it's not breaking the law. If someone gains their wealth easily, without effort, then they will not feel as good about it as the toiler who sacrificed a good days work for a good days pay.
    I have never met anyone who has worked harder than me.
    Where ever I worked during the last 50 years I made sure my productivity was the best. I feel really good about that Gra.
    Star Trekker
    18th Feb 2016
    7:24pm
    Frank, I have not got any issue with Bonny's money and where it came from. She said that she benefits from a Testimonial Trust. Most trusts are based on someone else's money and the interest is spread to beneficiaries. It sounds as though she has never worked and uses the money from the trust to live on. We should all be so lucky.
    LiveItUp
    19th Feb 2016
    7:07pm
    unfortunately I don't benefit from any testimonial trust. I studied them as one of my kids wants me to set one up for them when I die.

    Being self employed much longer than I had job it hasn't been easy but has rewarded me well. It's so much easier turning up each day to a job but I worked out a long time ago that someone else was getting rich from my efforts and only paying me what they had to. I've also been involved in a bad accident and I have survived cancer twice. I guess I have been lucky in that I have found a way through and now live those dreams of my earlier years.
    ozrog
    16th Feb 2016
    2:51pm
    They must think we are stupid we will always find ways round governments stupidity. People did with super when told to down size they just bought a smaller place in a more expensive area. Amazing how rich politicians with their snouts in the trough always want to attack the battlers and not the big end of town.
    shirboy
    16th Feb 2016
    2:59pm
    Why should we be PUNISHED for owning our home when some people have been happy enough to just pay rent without any of the problems incurred in home ownership.
    Wstaton
    16th Feb 2016
    3:12pm
    Ha! Well that's what they may be trying to push us to.

    Whats the point of owning a home if the government is only going to end up using it's value to pay a pension.

    What then the fat cats pick it up for a song, negative gear and rent it.

    So what the point, may as well just rent from the first place have no home for them to grab. Home building then crashes, Fewer homes to grab, rents go up. Rich kid "I'm OK Jack" just keep paying your Taxes and GST so the government can keep paying me negative gearing concessions.
    Anonymous
    16th Feb 2016
    3:39pm
    Big fall in house prices coming soon? Make all the soon-to-retire sell their homes or give them to offspring and claim rent assistance. Pension costs skyrocket. Overpaid idiot, Kate Carnell, looks like the dumb fool she obviously is!
    Perthite
    16th Feb 2016
    3:47pm
    Yes, Ozrog. Do we let our houses got to rack and ruin as it won't be worth borrowing the money to maintain it? We might as well remortgage our houses and live the good life until it is all gone as our families are not going to get anything in any case.
    Adrianus
    17th Feb 2016
    9:56am
    Gee Rainey, when will you put your hand up and become one of those overpaid "idiots"?
    Trevine
    16th Feb 2016
    3:22pm
    This bloody government is at the pensioners all the time. You retire with a plan and they come and just change the thing then what are the pensions to do. To tell you the fact I'm just sick of thus government. Hope they get kicked out at the next election. For a start Turnbull has no idea how a pensioner lives.
    Paulodapotter
    16th Feb 2016
    3:39pm
    I think he does, actually. He did not come from affluent beginnings. However, he is surrounded by a group of silver spooners who haven't a clue and many who don't give a ...... The rest are so fundamental in their beliefs, they haven't a hope of seeing the world in a realistic light. Only a good kick in the pants at the ballot box will help them wake up and take notice.
    PaTuSom
    16th Feb 2016
    3:39pm
    ...and never will!
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    3:51pm
    He needs to cut costs somewhere to get his country back on track and not turn into a third world country.
    TREBOR
    16th Feb 2016
    7:11pm
    Bit late there, Bonny - Third World status is upon us already with all of its ills - generational unemployment, under-employment, assault on wages and conditions, rich overlords and multiplying peasantry, reliance on Banana Republican style export accompanied by a lack of industrial infrastructure......

    We are rapidly taking the place of those countries we so graciously stooped to help out who had (and still have in many cases) these very problems...

    We already have in development the Underworld of crime as the only viable means of existing.... organised crime is and has been a reality for ages now....

    Now all we lack are the gulags and the Death Squads going around killing off the homeless.....
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    11:40am
    Bonny, there's no surer way to turn a country into a ''third world status'' nation than to attack the workers who build it and deny them reward for effort, while simultaneously destroying the social support system that protects the disadvantaged.

    First we had the stupid ''taper rate'' changes that slam hard workers and savers and make them worse off in retirement than those who don't save, and now you want to take people's homes away, destroying the most significant incentive that exists in Australia for workers to work and invest. DUMB AND DESTRUCTIVE, BONNY. Put on a dunce's cap, you fool!

    You are right that there needs to be changes to the automatic family home exemption, as it's unfair and a disincentive to making sensible retirement plans, but taking the house back as repayment of a pension loan is NOT the right response. It would be devastatingly damaging to the economy and the society.
    LiveItUp
    19th Feb 2016
    7:44pm
    It would be devastatingly damaging to the economy and the society?

    Do you really know what happens to the assets of someone after they die? Most people would treat it like a lottery win and go on a spending spree. I guess that would be damaging to the economy and the rich as their profits are badly effected.

    I really can't see how it would effect anyone before they died. I've lost count of the number of people I know who put off buying things. I just say to them that if you don't spend your money someone else will after you die.

    Will it effect people's incentive to save? Maybe some but majority no.
    Anonymous
    21st Feb 2016
    5:40pm
    Yes, I know what happens to money when people die. It goes to their heirs. In my case, if there is any left, it will provide an income for my disabled grandson, so he isn't totally reliant on welfare. My father's money bought a home for my mother so she didn't have to get rent assistance. My grandmother's money helped a cousin own a home so he didn't need rent assistance.

    Take away the right to pass your home on to your children and half the population will say ''stuff you. Ain't workin' my guts out and saving and investing so the rich can have it all and I get shafted.''
    YES IT ABSOLUTELY WILL AFFECT PEOPLE'S INCENTIVE TO SAVE. IT WILL KILL IT FOR THE VAST MAJORITY. A HOME OF ONE'S OWN HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE AUSTRALIAN DREAM. TAKE IT AWAY, AND THERE AIN'T MUCH INCENTIVE LEFT TO WORK AT ALL.

    We NEED incentives and rewards. Keep sticking it into the battlers to feed the rich and the economy will collapse. I think society is already close to it, actually!
    Rae
    16th Feb 2016
    3:27pm
    These Business Unionists are going a bit too far.

    Seems the Employer and business union only have to call themselves an association or council to get away with outrageous claims against workers.

    How about they do something about ensuring business people pay into their superannuation funds and stop wasting tax dollars on unnecessary and luxury business expenses.
    Not Amused
    16th Feb 2016
    3:43pm
    Funny isn't it. There's a baby who is well enough to be returned to her parents' care on Nauru, being housed, fed and clucked over in a Brisbane hospital courtesy of Australian taxpayers' money. There's a five hour wait in that hospital for emergency care for people like us. Hospital housing free of charge - and the PM wandering around in a daze, not immediately shutting down this nasty idea of punishing old home-owners just because they did the right thing for their futures. Now, if you are a baby and the law has decreed that your family isn't entitled to public housing and all the perks of the Australian public purse, you get free indefinite accommodation until the politicians do their job and exercise the law. Turnbull is so slow to act, he lets things go on and on, doesn't know his role (he used to lecture us on "leadership" is to take control, enforce the law, stop picking on the lifters, he's like a tortoise going backwards.
    Paulodapotter
    16th Feb 2016
    5:51pm
    Don't pick on a little kid to make your point
    KSS
    16th Feb 2016
    6:59pm
    Not Amused, I have some sympathy for your view but it is not entirely Mr Turnbull's fault here. the Doctors at the hospital whilst admitting that the child is well enough to be discharged they are refusing to do so for their own political point scoring. Add to the fact that it is a small child and out come all the bleeding hearts with no thought as to the consequences of their actions. No one could walk into that hospital and remove the child and the parents when the Doctors have not signed them out. Imagine the furore if they did. So now Australia is being held to ransom yet again with the people smugglers hanging on every word ready to advertise their murderous boat trips all over again should this child and the other medically transferred people from Naru. The children will become the next pawn in the game of people smuggling.
    Paulodapotter
    16th Feb 2016
    8:12pm
    You're quite something LNP KSS. Doctors don't belong to a political party as a group. Who are they appealing to? Political point scoring is you bucket KSS
    Perthite
    16th Feb 2016
    3:45pm
    This is absolutely disgusting as we paid an extra 7% tax for our pensions. Politicians should only get their pensions for two years and lose that when they get a job. After that the same rules should apply as to hard working Australians. Get any pensions at age 70. I only allow the two years for politicians pensions in case they have to find a real job. How much actually are we paying per annum for all these retired politicians compared or ordinary age pensioners.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    3:48pm
    It wold only be a small drop in the ocean compared to the age pension budget as there is only a small number of them compared to the number of aged pensioners.
    PaTuSom
    16th Feb 2016
    4:18pm
    Well, let them...however the small number, lead by example!
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    4:38pm
    It is part of their employment terms and conditions just like any other worker.
    TREBOR
    16th Feb 2016
    7:16pm
    Yet no other worker gets those terms and conditions..... you'll note I leave out 'board members' and such.... not workers...

    Can't agree, Bonny - politicians should only be able to draw pension if they have no job. The idea was that they could not get gainful employment after taking time out to 'serve' the country - therefore if they do have gainful employment they have no such entitlement.

    Doesn't matter that they are a small percentage etc - it is the proportion that counts and the discriminatory way it is handled.

    No worker gets paid for life for being sacked unless they are a politician or similar.
    Perthite
    17th Feb 2016
    1:58am
    Not true, Bonny. Every ex politician who serves three terms gets the pension for the rest of his/her life. This goes right back. Malcolm Fraser who took the Pension Trust Fund in 1977 only died last year and was receiving the pension until then. This goes on for years and years and I have even heard, but don't know if it is true, that Joe Belki-Petersen's pension went to his wife when he died. Most politicians are sacked from their position. How nice to be sacked from your job and still get paid! Tony Abbott was sacked and yet got $3 million in payouts. Bronwyn Bishop gets her pension even though she misused government funds and did not have to repay them.
    student
    16th Feb 2016
    3:48pm
    Thank God for pensioners. Without the poor/pensioners, who the heck would the Government/big business torment?

    As for curbing spending on people who need help, why not take back some of the concessions to o/s companies or tax the Australian 1%. I really feel the Government is past increasing the cost of the medical budget for anti-depressants, people are close to being suicidal . For Pete's sake, give us a break! Pick on someone else for a change, like a politician!
    Wstaton
    16th Feb 2016
    3:56pm
    Ha! but we are trying hard to pick on the politicians here but it's proving difficult. Their heads are too hard.
    ozrog
    16th Feb 2016
    4:00pm
    Well said.
    Old Fella
    16th Feb 2016
    4:00pm
    Guess this recommendation will displace potential death duties , given that the Government theoretically will ultimately own all deceased pensioners properties and are unlikely to Tax themselves. In fact when the Government eventually own all private property, all income and all means of Production, the surviving population will know what its like to live in a Communist or Fascist State. No doubt then the Australian Chamber of Commerce (ACCI) as a Capitalist organization will also need to be re-educated; Pity that task cannot be completed today. Sooner see the overpaid "Richard Craniums" at ACCI loose their heads for presenting such hair brain and dangerous political considerations to the current Government desperate for quick fixes and legislation of anti democratic, anti social governing policy and practices.
    peedee
    16th Feb 2016
    4:23pm
    Hey old fella. There are already death duties. Read the ATO publication "superannuation death benefits"
    Non dependent beneficiaries have to pay tax on their inheritance at the marginal rate less a discount. So super goes in at the concessional rate of 15%, the super funds pay 15% on profits and the beneficiary pays up to another 30%. Is that 60% all up. Not a bad return form us dudes that have worked and saved all our lives.

    So if we all drop out of the system and limit ourselves to $420,00 in assets and spend it all isn't the public purse the loser?
    Wstaton
    16th Feb 2016
    5:16pm
    Well peepee, do you think the politicians think about any fallout from the consequences of their actions.

    They would have raised the GST if no-one had pointed out that there would be no growth benefit from it except rewarding the richer more and bashing the non rich more.

    It should be noted that it wasn't a government body that pointed it out.

    Then the treasury got onto it and did their own sums then realized this was true.
    Life experience
    16th Feb 2016
    4:04pm
    I am disgusted that they would even think of doing this . They are encouraging Austrlain people to be lazy , not save and go without. Why bother trying to get ahead if it goes against you. Whilst others are lazy and live life beyond their means. All my life I've saved on a low wage and gone without. Why? Very unfair and cruel . Reduce govt pensions that would save money. I would fight this one all the way and vote with my feet. Absolutely disgusted to read such an awful unfair suggestion. Middle and low class hit again. Makes me sick. !!
    peedee
    16th Feb 2016
    4:09pm
    I agree with all the comments posted, but what to do.Whinging on forums like this does not help us. The only way is to unite and become a unified voice. There are organisations out there who purport to represent older Australians but from what I have seen they are not forceful or well researched in their views, are not supported by us and therefore have no clout.
    Until there is a unified movement then we have to suck it up. Anybody out there want to get it going? How about an article in this publication on how we might go about setting up a unified powerful lobby group. Plenty of experience on this forum to make it happen and I would be up for it.
    The politicisation of the public service has exacerbated the situation and there is no longer fearless advice and research which allows the zealots such as Carnell and Goldie to run riot on slogans and opinion pieces purporting to be fact with no considerations for the laws of unintended consequences.
    I am sticking my head up here but I believe that the only political party that will strive for social equity is Labour. Regardless of what you think of them and or their leader they are the only group with reasonable social conscience. All the comments today are about Liberal unfairness, the Greens have little or no aged policies that I am aware of and Xenephon in cahoots with the greens sold the self funded retirees down the gurgler. I wrote to Xenophon offering to correct his public misconceptions about self funded retirees but he just told me to contact my local senator.

    Following on from many of the comments I would like this publication to ask the questions:

    1. How much money is paid out each year to ex politicians in the way of pensions, travel allowances office staff etc. No break downs just one figure showing in real dollars how much comes out of the public purse.
    2. How many politicians on pensions are working in paid positions. I can think of a few, Beazley, Hockey, Reith, Downer
    3. Is Kate Carnell drawing a pension and if so how does she justify double dipping.

    Something else all retirees with super should be aware of which has been missed in all the arguments on the taxing of super concessions is that non dependent beneficiaries of inheritances of superannuation balances are taxed up to 30% plus medicare. At present this represents a tax rate on those funds of 45%. 15% going in at the concessional rate and 30% coming out. Check it out on the ATO superannuation death benefits.
    So much for the argument that people are trying to hang on to their super to pass it on tax free to their children.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    4:27pm
    I don't think what the Politians get is anything to do with welfare. It was part of the conditions under which they were elected just like the conditions under which someone is employed. It would be more responsible to compare their entitlements with those of private enterprise not welfare.

    Super is not really a good investment with all it's rules and taxes. Why people put so much into it has me baffled.
    TREBOR
    16th Feb 2016
    7:21pm
    It costs between $1-2M a year to run a politician's perks, peedee. Someone said Tony Abbott was a hero for wanting to stay on the back bench on a mere couple of hundred grand a year instead of taking a pension of $300k a year.. they forgot that he would have to pay for a lot out of his own pocket if he retired.. better to stay on the gravy train.
    Bes
    16th Feb 2016
    4:29pm
    Here we go again, lets go get the bastards who have worked and paid for their own homes?
    BULLSHIT!
    How about taking a look at government? Every State government is selling off PUBLIC assets. (An ASSET is something we are supposed to keep)
    The last Labor Federal government emptied the till.
    How about we take a look at our government system left to us in the 1800's by the English colonial government. SIX states with SIX governments and with the State governors in place.
    Just how much is duplicated and/or quadrupled to govern Australia?
    The English gave us their Westminster government system (which was/is designed for ONE government for ONE country) but x 6 here in the colonies as in the 1800's communication/travel was virtually impossible.
    Hence we ended up with different rail gauges, different laws, different licenses, different state police plus federal police.
    There are $Billions to be saved by standardizing the way we govern Australia.
    Politicians ongoing travel entitlements and end of career payments/superannuation are totally out of reality.
    All of the above is closely copied by their Local government counterparts x 30 in Perth.
    How does the saying go, "Nothing is Impossible....until put before a Committee", with that in mind take a look at our government system.
    This country, with ALL of it's resources, is falling apart simply because of mismanagement!
    Every government both state and federal can only see as far as Tax and Sell at all cost!
    Take everything from us, what we own, our taxes and selling our country from under us and our future families is NOT good government.
    There is a phenomenon of Power at ALL costs which does not translate to good government.
    Good government is when The Governments of the Day Manage our Country to the Very Best of Their Ability in the Very Best Interests of the Australian Nation.
    We have to stop voting for Personalities and start looking at Abilities. Amen.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    4:34pm
    I thought this discussion was about pensioners paying back their pensions as loans when they die. Sounds like a good idea to me.
    Rae
    16th Feb 2016
    9:43pm
    Bes the very best thing that could happen would be the appointment of an administrator to look at where all the money has gone and especially who was paid fees and charges for all the wheeling and dealing that has gone on during the sale of our income producing assets. Government contracts to multinationals also could do with transparency.

    Those assets built with taxes paid by pensioners should be contributing to their pensions now they are of pension age.

    It is a stupid idea Bonny and would have to include everyone who ever gets government money in any form having it added as a loan or do you just not like elderly people.

    How about the billions in grants to business groups. Who pays those back?

    16th Feb 2016
    4:31pm
    This government is worse than a compulsive gambler - pushing every possible combination of buttons on a poker machine (a new policy venture) trying to get a win, a good return. When this (their lucky dip policies) don't work they go to the ATM (Australian's Tax Money) and withdraw more for another spin of the policy wheel, usually doubling up on the bet in order to recoup losses. Once the ATM is empty they go into the grandparent's (retiree's) purses and wallets (superannuation, home deed, bank account, etc.) for further revenue to finance their hair-brained, never win, addiction to govern (gamble away) the country. Any rehabilitation for this heinous habit cannot be found through advice from the likes of Kate "The Big Business Bag-Woman" Carnell.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    4:37pm
    Government is just getting back some of it's welfare losses by turning them into loans. OK so your kids won't go to Disneyland when you die but instead will live in a better country instead.
    Anonymous
    16th Feb 2016
    4:47pm
    You must be living in Dizzyland yourself, Bonny. Revenue for efficient and effective running of a country should not come from unjustly penalising its residents, but from fair and wise government policies and their implementation. YOU would make a typical politician by your hair-brained comment above. Please see a competent psychiatrist and try to stop your hallucinating.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    4:52pm
    Nay just being realistic.
    TREBOR
    16th Feb 2016
    7:23pm
    Bought and paid for by fifty years of paying taxes, Bonny - bought and paid for.... no argument accepted and no loan.

    Sorry.
    PlanB
    17th Feb 2016
    5:31am
    Bonny looks like the "Kids" will be living in a land OWNED by the Chinese, the way the Government are allowing them to buy ALL our real estate AND Farms, WHY I can not understand!
    Bes
    16th Feb 2016
    4:47pm
    I think Bonny is a would be polly in the making!
    If we have to change then so do the way we are governed.
    In your world nothing is set in stone. So be it......for everyone, the day of entitlement is over.
    I feel sure the Chinese won't rule Australia with so much dead wood!
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    5:10pm
    No it's not near enough money for me to sit there all day and listen to all that stuff that goes on. I prefer to wake up and decide what I want to do for the day instead. No wonder Clive goes to sleep.
    Eve
    16th Feb 2016
    5:12pm
    Anytime Kate Carnell says anything it should be said under a banner that reads "I am here to make sure that the rich stay rich, and the less well off pay for it". I used to listen to her, but now......... she's joined that brand of capitalism which is essentially sociopathic, with no capacity for compassion or fairness. Keep it up Kate - your legacy will live on - just not nicely.

    And a note for some of the contributors who feel that they need to criticise disability pensioners or people on the dole - why? This is story about the government trying to take your home instead of paying you the pension. Don't criticise people on the dole. It pays a lot less than the aged pension, and every 2 weeks you have to go back and beg it to continue. Many older workers are learning this as they repeatedly can't get work after losing their jobs. Try living on that and paying rent (i.e. the dole is a very poor option). So criticise the jerks that relentlessly tell us we're not worth welfare, except through a trust fund. And the idea that we would have a Greek style economic meltdown (our debt levels are a miniscule proportion of Greece's) is Kate Carnell just being an alarmist lying COW.

    And a
    PaTuSom
    16th Feb 2016
    5:34pm
    Well said Eve, this country is in a good shape due to the hard, and dedicated work by the older generation. They were building up their country and their future according to the then rules in place. Now that their future is here, the government sees fit to change rules and we have the likes of Kate and our friend Bonny taking a shot at them.
    Janran
    21st Feb 2016
    3:09pm
    The irony for Kate Carnell is that the Greek economic meltdown was caused by its Government not taxing those income-earning people who could afford to pay their share of tax. Yes, the middle class and the rich! The meltdown was exacerbated by an overly-large welfare-dependent population. Greece had a genuine revenue AND a spending problem.

    I see Turnbull on the TV this morning scaremongering about the consequence of dropped housing prices if we adopt Shorten's plan on negative gearing changes. What does it matter if your house price drops, whether you stay living in it or you sell it, ALL house prices will drop, won't they? So if you sell for less than you hoped, you'll be able to buy another place cheaper too.

    Turnbull and his government think we are idiots. And when the election is announced, and if you believe the propaganda spouted by the Murdoch rags and media, then it'll be true.
    Life experience
    16th Feb 2016
    5:28pm
    Bonnie is the only person on here I can not relate to or agree with in any shape or form. And that's me trying to be diplomatic
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    5:34pm
    Agree they threw away the mould when I was born.

    I just can't understand why everyone here is so determined to whinge about everything especially what the pollies get for their entitlements. Talk about cut down the tall poppy it more like the poppy is never tall enough.
    PaTuSom
    16th Feb 2016
    5:39pm
    Entitlements is one thing, abusing is another. That goes for both sides of politics. The moronic behaviour by Bronwyn Bishop is a good example, it did not occur to her just how wrong it was what she did.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    5:45pm
    What has Bronwyn Bishop got to do with this topic? Zilch.
    PaTuSom
    16th Feb 2016
    5:48pm
    Oh dear...
    Paulodapotter
    16th Feb 2016
    5:56pm
    You sure they didn't throw something else away, Bonnie?
    Life experience
    16th Feb 2016
    6:46pm
    I'm guessing Bonnie does not own a home. It does not effect her . Probably on a pension or the dole. Highly intelligent. Ha Ha.
    Probably already got her inheritance and has nothing to leave too her family.
    Karma will come back to bite.
    Life experience
    16th Feb 2016
    7:04pm
    Just read back . Bonnie does not own a house. And knows she never will. It all makes sense now.
    She wants everyone to pay for her.
    Not the type of person I respect.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    7:49pm
    I don't get a pension and probably never will so why would everyone pay for me when I don't need it? I guess I'm the tall poppy everyone like to try to cut down but with every attempt I will only grow taller.

    I don't ask for any respect from anyone if they are kind enough to give it then that's good if nto then that is their problem not mine.

    I live a life different to most people where I worked out that having a job was not the answer to a good life but just a way of making others rich from my efforts instead. I now concentrate my efforts selfishly on myself not a boss. If this is bad then so be it but there is nothing better than being one's own boss.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    11:28am
    It's NOT bad, Bonny, but not everyone can do it and society wouldn't survive if it did. Those who SERVE others are entitled to respect and a fair reward, and they DO NOT get it through wages, so they should be entitled to expect a taxpayer-funded benefit on retirement WITHOUT having to sacrifice everything they struggled to acquire.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    11:28am
    It's NOT bad, Bonny, but not everyone can do it and society wouldn't survive if it did. Those who SERVE others are entitled to respect and a fair reward, and they DO NOT get it through wages, so they should be entitled to expect a taxpayer-funded benefit on retirement WITHOUT having to sacrifice everything they struggled to acquire.
    BundyGil
    16th Feb 2016
    5:29pm
    The business community is always looking for ways for others to pay their bills.
    Just another far right fantasy.
    Paulodapotter
    16th Feb 2016
    6:06pm
    Business group advocates will always fight for a better business environment. Everything anyone says is dependent on their own vested interests. That's why most opinions can be taken with a pinch of salt, even mine. However, I have no vested interest in preserving the status quo or changing it to suit vested interests like the ACCI. That's why I advise everyone to have a look at the IPA (Institute of Public Affairs) manifesto. They are the LNP's think tank (that's loose in its description. There's not much thinking, only ideological clap trap). However, it will give everyone a good idea of what this govenment's agenda is. Anything that promotes wealth for the wealthy is top of its list and that means taking more from those who have less. Even many in the government haven't a clue about what's going on in their own back rooms.
    niemakawa
    16th Feb 2016
    6:15pm
    It is the long term ambition (becoming shorter by the day) of Governments (worldwide) to abolish home ownership altogether. So this is just another step in that direction. Pensioners are an easy target with whom to start. It is all there to see plain and clear in "Agenda 21" Social Engineering at is "best".
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    6:18pm
    No one is talking about abolishing home ownership. Having a pensioner loan is just like any other debt that is payable upon your death.
    niemakawa
    16th Feb 2016
    6:29pm
    Bonny, So how will non-home owners make a contribution. Maybe reducing their pensions by 50% would do the trick!! Abolishing home ownership has and always will be one of the core principles of Labor Governments. There is now no distinction between any of the political parties and they all "endorse" this principle. The people of Australia as in most Western Countries have become so taken in by consecutive Governments since the 60's with "benefits" given out as an inducement to entrap them into the "Social Engineering" process".
    Anonymous
    16th Feb 2016
    6:31pm
    Bonny, DO see a psych.
    PaTuSom
    16th Feb 2016
    6:46pm
    My point is that we suddenly seem to be talking about "pension as a debt"...this was never the deal or understanding decades ago, as the "now old generation" was struggling then. Now that the old age has been reached, the rules are changing? Or some people are promoting this idea. Honestly, do you really think that's right?
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    6:46pm
    If you don't own a house or have other assets then your estate simply would not be able to pay your loan just like any other outstanding debts you may have. It probably would have priority over certain debts.

    No psychs for me after living with a couple of them many years ago. Goodness me how those people help anyone is beyond me.
    Life experience
    16th Feb 2016
    6:49pm
    I'm guessing Bonnie does not own a home. It does not effect her . Probably on a pension or the dole. Highly intelligent. Ha Ha.
    Probably already got her inheritance and has nothing to leave too her
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    7:22pm
    I don't have a job (just over broke) and I don't get a pension. Maybe I've made my own fortune and now live the life everyone else dreams about. I unfortunately haven't received any significant inheritance so that's ruled out. Maybe my house and everything else is owned by a corporation and you are right I'm a penniless bum.
    Life experience
    16th Feb 2016
    7:26pm
    We have already paid a lump sum in the form of stamp duty to the government for the privilage of owning our home. A further tax on death or loan as they put it makes it not attractive at all to be a home owner.
    I would sell up and spend my money . Not add taxes to the govt coffers . Get any hand out I could get , and change my whole lifestyle from accumulating to spending. And not necessarily in Australia as people might think this could turn around the economy everyone spending .
    I would live life to the full as others do. Instead of going without.
    I would also give inheritance now instead of later.
    The Govt would lose in the end.
    TREBOR
    16th Feb 2016
    7:28pm
    Bonny - we don't HAVE a loan for our pension... and we never will have while I draw breath.

    There is no point even discussing ways to 'repay' a non-existent debt.

    Until we determine the shape of the negotiating table - there is nothing under negotiation.....
    Paulodapotter
    16th Feb 2016
    7:59pm
    Where on earth did you get that from Niemakawa? Absolute drivel!
    Rae
    16th Feb 2016
    9:30pm
    Bonny this is a nonsense. If it is intended for aged pension then it must apply to all other government payments. Baby Bonus, childcare rebate, first home owners grant, private school rebates, health fund rebates. Business grants etc etc No one would have a home not mortgaged to the government.
    Gra
    18th Feb 2016
    7:15pm
    If anybody wants to meet Bonny you will have to visit the commune she lives on near Nimbin. Just watch out for the booby traps around the cash crop.
    bebby
    16th Feb 2016
    7:03pm
    Ms Carnell was once upon a time the Chief Minister of the ACT Government. She was a staunch Liberal. Enough said.
    niemakawa
    16th Feb 2016
    7:12pm
    Give all pensioners, regardless of "marital" status, assets or income ( with a few exceptions, politicians for example) a BASE pension of say $200.00 per week plus concession and health cards. Make that a starting point for any pensioner who needs further "assistance" in retirement. Those that believe they qualify for a higher rate can apply and be assessed by Centrelink for a "supplementary" payment over and above the base pension.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    7:24pm
    Maybe some of us don't want a pension as there are too many strings attached which can change at any time.
    TREBOR
    16th Feb 2016
    7:31pm
    So you live on the prana in the air as the Buddhist monks of Tibet do? Well done...

    You either accept a pension or you have independent means - if you have independent means then you return an annual tax return showing your income and deductions, and you are subject to scrutiny.

    Nobody lives on nothing - perhaps you don't even live in Australia... or as someone said, you are another fat copper trying to trawl (not troll) for dissidents and such.....
    Paulodapotter
    16th Feb 2016
    8:01pm
    Totalitarian governments would absolutely love you, Niemakawa.
    HarrysOpinion
    16th Feb 2016
    7:13pm
    Oh dear, Chief Executive Kate Carnell's suggestion is another 'kick in the Aged Pensioner's guts'.
    Rather then focusing on on the harder issues such as large corporate tax minimization practices, diesel fuel rebates for mining companies, generous superannuation tax concessions for the wealthy she takes the easy way out by attacking the vulnerable Aged pensioners.
    Bravo, Kate Carnell for possibly being the person to be the catalyst for starting Aged Pension Home owners riots and a civil war where you will be the loser like Marie Antoinette was.
    Not only did we contribute billions of dollars from our income tax and levies, sacrificed our enjoyments of life and living in order to pay off our high interest rate mortgages,pay for our kids education and health, pay Council rates and levies but, we also contributed billions of dollars to the manufacturing and commerce in Australia as hard working employees and retail consumers.
    The proposal that the Age Pension to be paid as a loan to retirees who own a home, and then the ‘debt’ would be paid back by selling the house is absolute lunacy and possibly unconstitutional. The proposal incites resentment, hatred of grossly inconsiderate people like the proposer and civil riot
    Adrianus
    16th Feb 2016
    7:21pm
    The situation is worse than many think. Sooner or later we will need to divide the meagre slices of pie which is getting smaller. If a person with $1m receives welfare it is obvious that a person with $100 receives less.
    TREBOR
    16th Feb 2016
    7:34pm
    Why, Frank? The pie split into even slices still pays each the same....

    So if a person with $1m gets $20, the person with $100 gets $20....
    Paulodapotter
    16th Feb 2016
    8:03pm
    Give 'em the crumbs that off off the rich fella's table, eh TREBOR?
    Adrianus
    16th Feb 2016
    8:06pm
    TREBOR, the pie is getting smaller. How can the slices be the same or increase, which is what everyone here is screaming for?
    HarrysOpinion
    16th Feb 2016
    8:45pm
    There are many age pensioners who live in regional areas where their homes and home units have a value between $120,000- $350,000.
    Take the homeowner with property value of $120,000 on a full pension of $876 per fortnight ($22,776 pa). If this insane proposal goes ahead that pensioner will be in debt to the government after 6 years by $16,656.
    The government decides to force the sale of this person's home in order to get its loan back. The person will be homeless with the cheapest accommodation being a dingy room in some a boarding house full of alcoholics, drug addicts, criminals and the government will be paying rent assistance plus full pension less the debt owed.
    Or, the government converts the home in to a temporary housing commission abode and charges the pensioner rent plus the amount of debt owed until the pensioner kicks the bucket which may not be that long before the pensioner dies of shortage of food, malnutrition and insufficient funds to pay for electricity and gas.
    Now if there are no places of accommodation then the pensioner will need to live on the park bench or pitch a tent in the bush. The person with property value of $350,000 will last 15 years before the person begins accumulating a debt greater than the value of the property.

    This is where this insane proposal is heading. The government profits from home foreclosures and sends thousands of aged pensioners in to deeper poverty and quicker death.

    Not only does the government dispossess the homeowner but it will dispossess the children of the age pensioner from their inheritance.

    I am not sure what to call people who come up with such proposals, Communists? Dictators? Ultra-Capitalists? Or just *ucken pigs!

    16th Feb 2016
    7:26pm
    re: lifechoises comments to this article,
    95% of comments to this collumn were made by less than 10% of the contributors led by labor mick with just under 50% of the comments followed closely by pa tu son, love vietnamese food, tia maria, sounds like a drink to me, rae, plan b, love to know his plan a or c and let us not forget wstation, better known as the welfare station, is it any wonder our trains run of the rails, reading their comments it will take a long time to find a brain between them.
    TREBOR
    16th Feb 2016
    7:32pm
    Our trains rarely run OFF the rails... they run on and of the rails every day....

    Are you advocating a denial of free speech, Commissar?

    Oh - you forgot me..... I feel deeply slighted and deeply hurt....
    Paulodapotter
    16th Feb 2016
    8:08pm
    Mick ain't labour dopey. He's pro independent.
    Anonymous
    16th Feb 2016
    9:10pm
    heemskerk99 you are a rude arrogant prick
    roy
    18th Feb 2016
    11:36am
    OMG.
    ozzie
    16th Feb 2016
    7:42pm
    Suppose, just suppose, that such a "scheme of robbery" were introduced......when the "Baby Boomer" bubble has passed....in 30 years or so - and the population growth rate becomes negative.....the Government would end up owning vast parcels of Property, with fewer people to occupy them. How oh how is the "Government ownership" of a great pile of "public housing" intend to "realise any value"??!! It would be like the reverse of HECS Debts....what a diabolically ridiculous un-Australian & flawed piece of economic theory this would be....... Perhaps they could "force" all Pensioners to smoke 80 cigarettes a day & help "snuff us out" more quickly to save on Welfare Payments??!!
    Paulodapotter
    16th Feb 2016
    8:07pm
    Love it. They could turn all the houses they've collected into Housing Commission homes to rent back to the homeless children of the pensioners whose houses have been sold to pay for their pensions. Ha, Ha, Ha ........!

    16th Feb 2016
    8:41pm
    just read the comments of trebor and paulodapoeper and you have to agree with my former comments, none of them were blessed with any grey matter, better known as brains!
    Happy Jack
    16th Feb 2016
    8:48pm
    QUESTION! WHY DOESN'T TUMBLES TURNTABLE ENSURE THAT HIS INVESTMENTS ARE NOT STRUCTERED IN A MANNER THAT ENSURES THAT MINIMAL TAX IS PAID DUE TO THE DEPLOYMENT OF OFFSHORE TAX HAVENS?
    Happy Jack
    16th Feb 2016
    8:56pm
    PREDICTION- GOING BY THE HUNDREDS OF COMMENTS RECIEVED ON THIS PROPOSAL IT WON'T BE LONG BEFORE THIS ONE'S KNOCKED ON THE HEAD AS WAS THE GST. NO GUTS, NO GLORY!
    Adrianus
    16th Feb 2016
    8:58pm
    Yep YLC triumphs again.
    Who's got the power??
    We got the power!! :)
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    9:34pm
    My guess is some of these ideas will get legs but which ones? This one certainly is a good idea.
    Adrianus
    16th Feb 2016
    10:10pm
    There will be a few shocks coming. The age of entitlement is over.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    11:42am
    No it isn't, Frank. The age of reward for contribution is over. The age of entitlement is just getting started. The Sheriff of Nottingham is seeing to that!
    Happy Jack
    16th Feb 2016
    9:00pm
    wILL MOANING MORRIE PLEASE OWN UP TO HOW MANY HOUSES HE OR HIS FAMILY HAVE NEGATIVE GEARED. COME ON PAL, COME CLEAN.
    marls
    16th Feb 2016
    9:11pm
    So let's all encourage the next generation to leave school go on the dole then single parent pension and housing and later the age pension these would be the most intelligent people because all the workers who slave to achieve anything are going to lose it all in the end anyway. So the dole bludger wins hands down
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    9:29pm
    Isn't that what is happening already? Have you tried to get anyone to do a job lately? Job is the easy part getting someone to do it the hard part. Not only that they think they should be given houses to use without any rent payments. Welfare state is alive and well.
    Adrianus
    16th Feb 2016
    10:07pm
    Australia's age pension is one of the highest in the world in US$. And it covers a very sizeable proportion of the over 65 year olds.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    11:48am
    Spot on, Marls. Idiots want to take all rewards away from workers, then complain that people don't want to work. What do the fools expect?
    Gra
    17th Feb 2016
    9:48pm
    Where did you get your information from Frank? Vastly different to what I read today which stated Australian pensioners were the third lowest paid in the world. Just love how there are those among us who think it would be a good idea for pensioners to lose their home to the government. I guess those people would be those who were fortunate enough to rise to the level where they are self funded retirees so don't draw a government pension. If only we were all so fortunate.
    Before you start about people hating or detesting those with more wealth, I think that is a bit of a red herring, it's more like those people who think they are more entitled looking down on those who aren't as well off.
    Adrianus
    17th Feb 2016
    9:57pm
    Helpage international pension watch data base. A data base maintained by the OECD on 107 countries. They sent me the details on an excel spreadsheet. It was up to date as at 15/03/2015. Some of these politically motivated reports are from 2012. Particularly the ones that compare expenditure to GDP. Which country do you think is the most generous in terms of the actual amount of money? That is their currency converted to US$?
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2016
    7:22am
    Frank, the OECD figures say Australian pensions are LOW by world standards and we spend far less on aged pensions than almost any other OECD country. High converted to US$? What sort of bunkum is that? The cost of living is high here. Wages are high. Of course our pensions are going to be higher in US$ than pensions in countries that have far lower wages and living costs.

    What matters is the RELATIVITY of aged pension costs to GDP, and ours is among the LOWEST in the world.
    Adrianus
    18th Feb 2016
    8:57am
    Rainey, last week you were saying our wages were low?
    Facts Rainey Facts. Give me some facts to support that bland statement? Percentiles of GDP's will do to support your argument ??
    Gra
    18th Feb 2016
    9:37am
    Frank how come you failed to mention this part of the report "Australia ranks lowest in its region in the income security domain (62), due to high old age poverty rate (33.4%) and a pension income coverage (83%) below the regional average."
    Could it simply be that those figures didn't suit your argument?
    FM
    16th Feb 2016
    9:34pm
    The first place to start is to remove Kate Carnell's hand out from the Government.
    I have heard so much moronic squawking from this woman, as I am sure most people have, it would be a gift to the nation. We find money to pay huge salaries to the useless unproductive and thoroughly obnoxious while valuable people like CSIRO scientists lose their jobs.
    whatsupdok
    16th Feb 2016
    9:55pm
    Any way they can? Watch out, soon the rules will restrict any pension at all until you've used up all your Super.
    niemakawa
    16th Feb 2016
    9:58pm
    Don't encourage "them".
    Adrianus
    16th Feb 2016
    10:20pm
    whatsupdok, that would be a good idea for super instead of leaving it to the kids.
    niemakawa
    16th Feb 2016
    10:25pm
    Frank, I only want to leave it to the "kids". That is my RIGHT. Once I have paid my taxes I owe nothing else to society and have no intention of handing over any of my savings ( already heavily taxed) to give to those that have been "leeches" in the system.
    LiveItUp
    16th Feb 2016
    10:30pm
    Been telling my kids not to put any more than required to into super as I expect it to be nationised before they reach retirement age.

    They tell us super is our money but not until we reach an age of release but I'm glad I only have a small proportion of my wealth in super. Rules can change at any time.
    Adrianus
    17th Feb 2016
    7:58am
    niemakawa, many posters here say that Superannuation is heavily subsidised by the taxpayer and as such is just another form of welfare.
    If Rainey and others are correct and it is another form of welfare then you may not have a choice?
    ex PS
    19th Feb 2016
    5:56pm
    The point is that it is my Super, I should be able to leave it to my neighbours cat if I want to . IT'S MINE!!!!!!
    I think that most of the people railing against Super are probably the ones who wasted most of their money and are jealous of those who managed theirs.
    I remember a long term Queensland Premier who openly stated that if he could he would abolish the Super Scheme and refused to pay into it.
    Many years later when he was forced into retirement he actually requested that the government of the day give him a Super payment or the equivelant. It goes to show that as circumstances change so do values.
    FM
    16th Feb 2016
    11:08pm
    O, to have a little house!
    To own the hearth and stool and all!
    The heaped up sods upon the fire,
    The pile of logs against the wall!

    To have a clock with weights and chains
    And pendulum swinging up and down!
    A dresser filled with shining delph,
    Speckled and white and blue and brown!

    I could be busy all the day
    Clearing and sweeping hearth and floor,
    And fixing on their shelf again
    My white and blue and speckled store!

    I could be quiet there at night
    Beside the fire and by myself,
    Sure of a bed and loth to leave
    The ticking clock and the shining delph!

    Och! but I'm weary of mist and dark,
    And roads where there's never a house nor bush,
    And tired I am of heath and road,
    And the crying wind and the lonesome hush!

    And I am praying to God on high,
    And I am praying Him night and day,
    For a little house—a house of my own—
    Out of the wind's and the rain's way.
    niemakawa
    17th Feb 2016
    2:12am
    Kaye's words
    "no mention of those who never saved a deposit or paid back a mortgage slowly, painfully over 20, 30 or 40 years. So let’s beat up old home owners, that sounds like fun. Because the pensioners clearly have a capacity to fund themselves.
    NOT."

    Well should home owners be made to repay their pension by means of a loan against their estate, then it would only be fair that non-homeowners should make a contribution also.

    They should be forced to do community work for at least 25 hours a week to pay for their pensions. That would be fair.
    Adrianus
    17th Feb 2016
    10:20am
    This is interesting, reading these posts. I guess if we consider that 70% of pensioners are home owners it's not surprising that the temperature is high.
    The extent of detestation for those who have more wealth is what I'm surprised about. What is most shocking though, for me, is that the vile is coming from home owners, who obviously have a reasonable level of wealth. I guess some would choose not to be fully self funded retirees for ideological reasons? While others may base their greed on principle?
    I'm learning something about my fellow Australians.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    11:46am
    What BS, Frank. Nobody detests those ''with more wealth''. The anger is with the greedy, self-serving privileged who DON'T EARN THEIR WEALTH but take it unfairly and dishonestly from people who work their guts out all their lives, telling those honest workers that they are '''not entitled'', they are ''leaners'', they are ''a burden'', and they should be stripped of all that they worked for.

    Yes, I've learned a lot about a few fellow Australians - Frank and Bonny to name just two. Self-serving people who think others should spend their life working to have all they earn taken and given to wealthier folk whose greed knows no bounds.
    Adrianus
    17th Feb 2016
    11:59am
    Rainey thanks again for your contribution :)
    LiveItUp
    17th Feb 2016
    12:49pm
    I agree Frank especially about the extent of detestation for those who have more wealth. What I don't understand though is why if these people have worked and saved so hard they are on a pension. Surely they would be fully self funded and this pension loan proposal would not then worry them.

    If you are on welfare as opposed to a job then what are you doing now to earn it? That to me is where the greed is.
    Adrianus
    17th Feb 2016
    7:39pm
    I don't know the answer to that?
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    8:23pm
    Again you show your pathetic ignorance and arrogance, Bonny. Today I talked to a tiler who lost $160,000 when a builder went ''belly up''. I know of mothers who spent upwards of $250,000 on health care and special education for ''special'' children. I know of widows who scrubbed floors for 40 years to raise the children they were left with when a young husband died in an accident.

    Obviously, you have never experienced genuine hardship. Your disrespect for those who do is nothing short of vile.

    Business owners and governments are delighted to take advantage of the less fortunate by paying them miserly wages for slogging their guts out in menial jogs that barely put food on the table and a roof over the family's head. And then self-serving idiots like you suggest that these workers, many of whom are forced out of work prematurely by workplace accidents or destruction of their health in unsafe work environments, should somehow miraculously be able to lay their hands on $1.5 million in retirement savings!!!!

    And by the way, it's these folk who DON'T have access to the fancy tax-savings schemes that people like you exploit. It's THESE folks who carry this nation for all the greedy, selfish leaners who then turn around and treat them with contempt.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    8:26pm
    And by the way, Bonny, the arsehole builder who cheated his tradesmen out of their life savings will be a ''self-funded retiree''. He took advantage of all the asset shelters that fancy over-paid and unconscionable accountants and lawyers and politicians have made sure are available to their thieving and fraudulent mates. His wealth is safely stashed where no-one can touch it, while he pleads ''poverty'' to escape his obligations to others.
    LiveItUp
    17th Feb 2016
    9:24pm
    If what you have outlined above is hardship then you haven't seen genuine hardship like I have. Being a positive person I don't dwell on the misfortunes of life but look forward to the achievements instead.
    Adrianus
    17th Feb 2016
    9:47pm
    I agree Bonny. Rainey somehow thinks she is the only one who knows hardship, which is surprising because she has only anecdotal evidence of hardship but no real personal experience.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2016
    6:48am
    Bonny, if you'd seen genuine hardship, you wouldn't be talking as you are now. You'd have empathy and compassion for those who have encountered hardship they could not overcome, and you'd recognize that most of the hard workers in our population - the people this country needs to keep it running - haven't a hope of becoming self-funded retirees.

    Frank, you are a PRIZE ASS with your ASS-U-MEs. ''Anecdotal evidence of hardship but no real personal experience?'' I don't disclose my personal experience here because it is MY business, and I am a positive person who doesn't dwell on misfortune. But anyone who suffered the extreme hardship and injustice I've had to battle would NEVER put someone down for not being self-funded, and would certainly NEVER suggest that workers should sacrifice everything they earned to survive old age.

    I have known hardship like most can't even begin to imagine, and I've worked my guts out to substantially overcome it. I'm probably better off than a lot of retirees, despite not being anywhere near ''self-funding'' given the appalling returns on investment today.

    But I am also a realist who appreciates the truth. I am not an arrogant, self-opinionated, self-serving arsehole who condemns people who have struggled for decades to overcome unfair challenges, and I don't ask people who have worked for 40+ years to contribute to this nation to hand over EVERYTHING they worked for to the greedy government (that keeps handing it to the greedy rich) as some sick punishment for not being privileged enough to be self-sufficient in old age.

    Bonny's insinuations are vile and disgusting in the extreme.

    And you, Frank, are just a pathetic ASS who bases his comments on wild, unfounded and bigotetd assumptions about someone about whom you know absolutely NOTHING.
    Adrianus
    18th Feb 2016
    8:51am
    OK Rainey, let me just paraphrase to see if I understand your message?
    You are the only person who understands the hardships of others because you are one of the few who have experienced real hardship. Hardship like most cant even begin to imagine.
    Especially the likes of Bonny or me.
    As you say we have no empathy or compassion for others who have the same life struggles.

    I condemn people who have struggled? Really? That is a little rich?

    You say you are a positive person who doesn't dwell on misfortune.
    I think I get your message. I understand the frustration of having so much of your wealth tied up in your land.
    You say you are better off than a lot of retirees. So does that make you happy? However, you're not quite self funded . Only 20% of retirees are so don't be down on yourself about that.

    Rainey, I would be the last person to give advice to someone like yourself who is so successful, but can I say, try not to think about money so much. It's not all that important. During the gold rush days people who were obsessed with prospecting were said to have "Gold Fever." In many cases the sickness was incurable.

    Rainey, what you may not realise is that we are all walking each other home.
    If you are the one loaded with compassion, think about it?
    Gra
    18th Feb 2016
    9:47am
    It's OK Rainey, hardship to Bonny would be breaking a fingernail. She and Frank seem to have no understanding at all of lesser people.
    Bonny's inability to understand that a hard working person couldn't be a self funded retiree explains it all. She simply cannot conceive that someone can work hard and not be on $200,000 a year. She can't understand that people on low paying jobs were barely taking home enough to put food on the table and keep a roof over their head - there was nothing left to put away for retirement. These people never knew what a holiday was, not even in the next town, let alone overseas.
    Bonny, if you have experienced hardship, enlighten us.
    Anonymous
    21st Feb 2016
    5:51pm
    Nobody is walking me home, Frank. Nobody gave a damn when I ran up as much debt as someone who bought 5 houses trying to provide medical care and special education for a disabled child. Nobody cared when my partner had a crippling accident and couldn't work again. "

    Why do I think about money? Because living in abject poverty from birth to age 45, and then struggling to slowly crawl out of it but still living more frugally than most can ever contemplate, made me very afraid of growing old with too little money to cover my health care and aged care needs. Because my partner still incurs heavy costs as a result of his disability. Because I have a disabled grandson whose future is very bleak unless I can leave him a little to ensure he isn't totally dependant on welfare. (His parents are struggling just to live on one wage while his mother provides the special care he needs and therefore can't work). And because when things get tough in this country, it's ALWAYS people like me who get slugged, and the privileged get off scot free and then, like the arrogant Bonny, tell people their hardship is their fault.

    Maybe if you weren't so damned self-righteous and arrogant, Frank, you'd try to see what life is like in the real world. I don't have a lot of wealth tied up in land. (I don't have a lot of wealth at all. Not nearly enough to be secure in retirement given this stinking government's attitude to retirees). Nor do I think I'm anywhere near alone in having faced such hardship. Thousands have struggled with equal or worse challenges. What irks me is that people like you and Bonny are so bat-eyed and egotistical that you can't recognize that anyone could genuinely do it tough. You think everyone had it as good as you did.
    FM
    17th Feb 2016
    11:21am
    Yes Mick the media has been pushing this and pushing this very strongly. Peter Martin from the smh was really pushing it, probably paid to do so. It seems in their opinion Australia is the only Western Country that cannot afford the pension. How backward we are.
    We now have Cassandra Goldie form ACOSS out wringing her hands about what we can and cannot afford instead of doing her job to advocate for the disadvantaged which includes older Australians.
    Every clueless fool in town thinks he or she knows how to manage the country's finances. However, they are not going to be personally out of pocket at the end of the day. Kate Carnall is paid an amount from the public purse that would probably fund 10 pensioners.
    Heskwith
    17th Feb 2016
    12:38pm
    We can get a pension loan on our house now, to the limit of the pension we would get without the house, I think. But it costs a lot.. the interest is quite high and would mount up to the point that it may very much reduce the sale yield to the former owner or estate.
    I concluded not to get a loan, but to just run my money down to nothing before paying out on such a loan.
    sticko
    17th Feb 2016
    1:38pm
    As an aged pensioner living on her own and with a reverse mortgage at high interest which I can never pay I really think our gov't needs to go as their brains are all up their BUM. I have one meal a day, never go out and struggle to pay the bills as the pension never increases, and if it does the $1.50 takes weeks to come thru and the pollies get their big wack the next day. My fortnightly payment for the reverse mortgage doesn't cover the interest. LEAVE THE PENSIONERS ALONE, WE ARE DEPRESSED AND BATTLING ENOUGH. LOVE TO GO OUT FOR A MEAL!
    Gigi
    17th Feb 2016
    1:55pm
    Can't understand how someone can get themselves heard when the ideas they generate are sublimely ridiculous! Way to go youlifechoices on writing an article of such facile topic.
    red 1
    17th Feb 2016
    2:34pm
    Reduce all the tax breaks to big business.
    ozrog
    17th Feb 2016
    2:37pm
    I agree and make them pay tax that reflects their earnings. If the law needs to change then change it.

    17th Feb 2016
    2:40pm
    With the idiots we have running the country I dont see a good future ahead for anyone.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    7:05pm
    reading your rambled and idiotic comment, who is the arrogant prick now?
    fish head
    17th Feb 2016
    3:05pm
    And what is going to be done with those who, through no fault of their own, do not own a house?
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    3:18pm
    Fish head the pollies cant think outside the little protected boxes they live in. The current generation cant afford to buy a house they will have to rent for the rest of their lives. The one's that have houses like us will sell up and have a good time as there is no future ahead for us, no pension, no income, we will be on the streets very soon, hence third world country. Could try living in a bus or tent.
    ozrog
    17th Feb 2016
    4:00pm
    What they also don't get is a lot of the Aussie pensions are subsidized by other countries. These other countries are getting annoyed at the Australian governments attitude towards pensioners and my soon withdraw them and then the Australian government will have to pay those people full pensions. Costing tax payers more money.
    Mojobomber
    17th Feb 2016
    5:09pm
    Its almost become, How dare pensioners own their own home! I am not yet on the pension, but have finished work due to taking a redundancy. My husband turns 65 in less than 3 months. He finished work in December when he was involuntarily laid off. I have worked from before I turned 16 for over 43 years continuous, no break in service, except to have 3 children along the way. My husband has worked for almost 48 years. We own our own home and worked damned hard for it. We paid our taxes and the only social services we received was child endowment for a short time for our two eldest and then we used the money to sponsor a child in a third world country. Our third child is still living at home and can only get casual work. Everyone's story is different and I am not saying we are any more entitled than others. But I will be buggered if they pay us the old age pension against our home as a loan then sell our home when we pass on. This is highway robbery that then leaves the next generation in a lesser position and possibly on the road to welfare dependancy. They should be concentrating on creating work instead of robbing the poor.
    bobbe
    17th Feb 2016
    6:53pm
    I agree it should be a loan, just as the taxes we pay all our working life should be a loan to the government, and with the accrued compound interest it should be used to fund our retirement.

    17th Feb 2016
    7:10pm
    jannie, great to see another imbecile joining labor mick's ranks
    Gra
    17th Feb 2016
    8:33pm
    This would have to be the most hair brained scheme yet, about what one would expect from Kate Carnell. Where are the balances in this scheme? People who have worked their butt off over the years to provide for their family are going to be penalised whilst those who haven't done much, especially those who have been on welfare all their life, have lived in low cost government housing get off this mortal coil at no cost. The workers who made this country what it is, who have made sacrifices to provide a decent roof over their kids heads with the hope that home will provide a reasonable inheritance for their kids, get smacked over the head with a shovel when they draw their last breath and their kids are told 'Suckers, that house isn't yours, it belongs to the government".
    Eve
    22nd Feb 2016
    2:05pm
    Gra PLEASE. Stop blaming the poor when it was the rich and big business who came up with this idea!!!!!

    With Carnell's scheme, the rich get to keep most of their houses for their kids (after all they will enough tax free super and trust funds to support them,and won't need to flog off any houses for their retirement), and the working and middle classes get to pass on nothing to their kids. It's actually dangerously close class warfare. And you are very right to be concerned.
    Not Senile Yet!
    17th Feb 2016
    9:20pm
    The ACCI is just that...a chamber of commerce and industry...that serves only one master....those that are in business to make money!!!!!
    They are NOT a voice of reason but a voice of pure bias!!!!
    If the present Government or any Government for that matter....really believes that this is a reasonable suggestion....then they are clearly on drugs or delusionary between the ears!
    After paying my taxes and building the country's hospitals, roads, railways, water supplies and ALL the Private Enterprises Wealth by profit from my Labour.....in retirement I am to then be expected to take out a loan for a pension....Please!!!!!!
    The Pension is a Promised Income to be paid by the Government in return for a Life's work and taxes paid......it is embedded in our Legislation....and labelling it Welfare will not change it to Welfare.
    It is an earned entitlement....regardless of what Modern Party Puppets want to label it!!!!
    The fact is they have fiddle with the Legislation...bought in Asset Tests that never applied......added limits on income allowed to be earned....That never were part of the Pension Act!
    The accessed the Retirement Fund......during the 90's and never replaced it!
    Instead implementing a Forced Self Funded Super Scheme on everyone that had holes in it left Right and Centre......causing many to loose Millions to badly invested Super Funds!!!
    Now because THEY can't stop Spending our Taxes...ie can't balance the budget......they want us to pay even more.......we are not stupid....we know what financed the NEW PARLIAMENT HOUSE in Canberra!!!!!
    Never heard such ROT from Intelligent People as we hear from this irresponsible Chamber of Ninkompoops !!!........
    Oh! Hang on!!! The Libs want us to listen to this rubbish....that's why it is being published!
    Talk about Scare Propaganda!!!!!
    Tell you what ...we have our own scare Propaganda!!!!
    How about WE ALL vote the Party Puppets out of OUR Parliament?????
    Happy Jack
    18th Feb 2016
    3:34am
    Sonds like agood idea to me.
    Happy Jack
    18th Feb 2016
    3:44am
    We are spared- seems like germsjerk69 has run out of words, in addition to his lack of punctuation marks, as his last few comments have only managed one sentence. Don't tell me! HIS ON THE TURPS, again.

    18th Feb 2016
    7:09am
    I'm getting more than a little fed up with the arrogant overpaid idiots with over-inflated egos who keep suggesting retirees shouldn't be left with money to leave to their kids.

    I suspect I'm in good company here, having worked my guts out for 5 decades, along with my partner, to overcome massive disadvantage and huge life challenges - challenges and disadvantages the inflated-ego arseholes here couldn't even begin to imagine - SO THAT MY KIDS WOULD HAVE A BETTER LIFE.

    I worked SPECIFICALLY to leave something to my kids, as did my dear old mother and my partner's mother (though neither had anything to leave behind after their lives were destroyed by a war that wrecked their husbands and left their family in poverty)

    That's what I worked for. And now the over-inflated egotistical arseholes of this world want me to give it all to a government that gives huge handouts to the greedy privileged. Oh no, they scream, you cannot be allowed to leave it to your children. Your children must live as you did - working their guts out for 50+ years for NOTHING, so that the rich elite can be richer and more elite and can continue to scorn those of us who gave them the roads and the electricity infrastructure and the hospitals they went to with their gout and heart attacks and the schools their kids were educated in and the ports they used to import and export, and all the millions of other RESOURCES that THEY COULDN'T DO WITHOUT RUNNING THEIR SHABBY LITTLE TAX-EVADING ENTERPRISES THAT MADE THEM NOW EGOTISTICALLY ''SELF-SUFFICIENT'' and ''better than thou''.

    Well, here's my answer, Kate Carnell, Scott Morrison, Malcolm Turnbull - and all the other self-righteous arseholes who want to steal everything the real workers EARNED over a lifetime:

    Young Australians - take a good long look at the way this country treats your parents and grandparents who worked for decades, for far less than they were worth, to build this nation. Take a really good look! Then tell the arseholes to piss off and build their own bloody roads and dig their own mines and run their own schools and hospitals and maintain their own power lines, ''cause since you are so damned greedy and selfish and arrogant, we ain't gonna do another day's work for you arseholes. We are gonna join the ''welfare bludgers'', and tell you to stick your whinging. YOU CREATED THE PROBLEM WITH YOUR GREED. Suck it up.

    Young folk, STOP WORKING. STOP PAYING TAXES. STOP BUYING THE CRAP THE ARROGANT WELL-TO-DO PRODUCE and spend billions telling you is NECESSARY for your happiness. Claim ''WELFARE'' and retreat to the country to live a simple life growing your own vegies, and see how the arrogant, self-opinionated arseholes fare then. (Are you paying attention Kate, Morrison, Turnbull et al?)

    My life was hard because my father and father-in-law both made the ultimate sacrifice for this country in war. My mother worked her guts out in the land army to keep the rich people's farms running during the war years. And I'll be damned if I'll now stay silent while the arrogant, selfish, overpaid idiot arseholes who BENEFITED from that sacrifice tell me I'm not ENTITLED to give what I worked so hard for to my kids, and to receive the pension I paid for during my working life - WITH A SPECIFIC TAX LEVY FOR THAT PURPOSE, not taxes that were to go into consolidated revenue. I paid with a CONTRIBUTION exactly the same as all those who paid into superannuation. I just wasn't privileged to have a fund with a fancy name to contribute to.

    That said, a lot of superannuants were also SHAFTED. And it's SICK, VILE AND DISGUSTING that the beneficiaries of decades of hard work are now putting themselves on a pedestal and trying to condemn those whose work put them there to hardship.
    Adrianus
    18th Feb 2016
    8:54am
    Rainey, just a thought. I think its time to change your bedtime reading?
    Gra
    18th Feb 2016
    9:31am
    You Rainey, myself and lots of others who have done the same thing feel the same way. It is only those elitists who would dare scorn us.
    I can put myself in your place when it comes to growing up without much, working hard to rise above that so my kids didn't have to go down the same path and now we have some elitist suggesting that it should be that I have worked my guts out for nothing? People like her who wouldn't know what a hard days work was get under my skin.
    And before you start Frank, sitting in an office deciding who you're going to sack next does not constitute hard work.
    roy
    18th Feb 2016
    11:34am
    Vote independent.
    Adrianus
    18th Feb 2016
    1:12pm
    Like Nick Zenophon? Are his 12 houses negatively geared? Isnt he the guy with all the power?
    Happy Jack
    18th Feb 2016
    9:25am
    Rainey! sounds like you're a fair dinkum OZZIE to me and you are entitled to be upset. You sound old enough to remember the good old days when you finished your schooling one day at lunch time and picked a job up that afternoon. The economic rules of today's modern world dictate that we have a percentage of unemployed to keep wages, hence inflation down. I don't mind supporting, through the social system, those who are genuinely unemployed but object to subsidising the bludgers and I include among them the well off who have through tax breaks, tax dodging /evading, and subsidies are living the high life at our expense. I'm referring to the non productive types who seem to be everywhere. for example- go to the horse races, mid week: their living it up like millionaires. They are not you average poor bugger on the dole, couldn't even afford to pay to get in the gate, yet alone have a bet. The little I have saved I want to leave to my kids- it's about the only way they'll ever be able to pay the exorbinate house prices of today brought on by that bloody negative gearing which after all is a subsidy for wealth accumulation by the non contributors in our society.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2016
    6:26pm
    great to see jackass is back, same stupid comments, same worthless comments, must have a new partner in jeannie.
    ex PS
    19th Feb 2016
    4:58pm
    This government is intent on wiping out any incentives to work hard and save to make a better future foe ourselves.
    They seem t want to revert to a fuedal system where the peoploe with the wealth run the country.
    Let us look into mthe future, most australians do not own their own homes because it is futile to do so, it wil only endup in the governments hands when we die. The government brings in a law that only landowners can vote, hence the LNP can never be voted out. Pure fantasy, but the scarey thing is, I wouldn't put it past them.
    Anonymous
    21st Feb 2016
    5:59pm
    I agree ex PS.

    And heemskerk99, how come you are supporting the arguments of the privileged rich when you are so dumb you can't make a single sensible comment? Did you inherit wealth? All you are capable of is insults and rude abuse. Not a single intelligent remark anywhere!
    Biddy
    18th Feb 2016
    1:02pm
    Do poloticans stop and think what home owners have to do to stay in their home or own it we pay a great price for our homes it doesn't come cheap we pay rates,electricity accounts water rates,the phone services so we can stay in touch and the upkeep we also worked and payed our taxes most time holding down two jobs just so we could afford our home,I bet the retired poloticans still get their big hand outs and live comfortably in the many homes they own and overseas trips payed by us the tax payers but do they take a cut in their big pays you can bet your life they don't .stop blaming the pensioners for the big economy blow out,you bring immagrants into this county and pay there way also they get a car besides help from centre link so much more then we do and all they do is whinge and try to find ways to take the pension from the people whom contributed to this country,maybe new ministers but same circus different clowns it's about time people stood there ground and remind the Government we voted you in and we can sack you cheers
    whatsupdok
    19th Feb 2016
    12:31am
    Admit, I see a few people here that need to dominate each other and their contributions are very limited due to their very strong opinions and attacks on each other. It effects the logical discussion of a topic that could lead to a better understanding and possibly an offer towards a result or solution if the government made changes that actually effect many of us. The leading cause of these arguments is not what the changes may be but, the government making changes to people's future financial security. We all have a story to tell but, maybe they are best left untold. I don't appreciate being attacked by a spineless entity that I can't smack if they are being a smartelic. The government plain and simple needs to leave or have limitations on moving the goal posts!
    ex PS
    20th Feb 2016
    9:25am
    The government has limitations, they are called the Independants, that's why they are trying to change the voting system in oder to get rid of them.
    Once the Independants are gone it will be open slather.
    ex PS
    19th Feb 2016
    4:45pm
    So what is the next step for the Australian people, stop buying your own home so that the government can't take it of you when you die? If you can't leave it for your family to help them along, why bother?
    Rent all your lives, take a government subsidy to help pay the rent and claim even more on the Pension to pay for the rent.
    I thought government advisors were supposed to be clever this one needs to give most of her salary back.
    LiveItUp
    19th Feb 2016
    7:49pm
    Plan B

    Why not just distribute your estate before you apply for the pension? Just keep enough to live for 5 years and then you get the full pension, rent assistance and all the rest.

    Meanwhile you watch your family and heirs spend your money.
    ex PS
    20th Feb 2016
    9:11am
    You're right, better than just handing your assets over to the government, and who knows, if you have bought up your family well, you may at least get some of it back.
    But wouldn't it be better if the governments just kept their thieving hands off other peoples property?
    Anonymous
    21st Feb 2016
    6:02pm
    Many are doing just that, Bonny, which is why pension costs keep rising. And the STUPID privileged (you included) want to keep killing incentives and rewards for hard work, honesty, saving and investing and make it more and more attractive to just live off welfare.

    19th Feb 2016
    6:33pm
    reading the comments shows why Australia has become an heaven for the me, me, me's, forget anybody else but me, the shame of being rich, nobody was able to put a price on who or what figure makes you belong to the so-called rich people, enjoyed how Bonny defends her comments against those who want more and more of the tax-payer but never liked hard work or had the guts to become self employed or/and employed people, but they still feel hard done by, even forgetting who put the money in for their super, it is your employer, you also have the option of increasing it every year, as long you as play it by the book, put in place in this country, happens to be the labor party at the time, one should not be vilified by those ignorant me, me's, as the winner of the melbourne cup said to those wingers, get stuffed!!!!!
    Happy Jack
    19th Feb 2016
    9:03pm
    I'd hazard a guess that germsjerk69 is on the turps, again! most likely on ice.
    Anonymous
    21st Feb 2016
    6:24pm
    another intelligent? comment of jackass, another rainy day at the jackass farm
    ex PS
    20th Feb 2016
    9:05am
    As was pointed out earlier in this discussion. The government is proposing that the family home become a defacto super annuation instrument ,as the value will be used to provide us with a pension that the government itself should be providing.
    If this is the case surely we should be entitled to negative gear the family home as it will then become an investment property?
    Adrianus
    20th Feb 2016
    9:45am
    Interest rates are always higher under a Labor Government, therefor so too is the cost of negative gearing. Under this government the cost of negative gearing to the taxpayer has dropped by $2b.
    Happy Jack
    20th Feb 2016
    4:40pm
    Christ, we must have been paying through the nose when Malcom Fraser was in power and interest rates were running at 17 percent!
    Happy Jack
    20th Feb 2016
    4:43pm
    You say it's dropped by 2 billion, Frank. I'm interested to know what was the figure before it dropped. can you help?
    Adrianus
    20th Feb 2016
    8:12pm
    $13.8b
    Happy Jack
    20th Feb 2016
    8:40pm
    Thanks Frank. You'll be pleased to know that the figure $13.8 billion equates to not quite budget outlays for pensions- $28.9 billion.
    Anonymous
    21st Feb 2016
    6:28pm
    does not know the difference between the time fraser was in government, which was in the seventies and to-days outlays, another rainy day at the jackass farm
    nena
    21st Feb 2016
    3:57pm
    If I live until 97 the gov would not get enough from my shack to recover the amount of pension has paid...It would have to wait to my return...But I shall be much clever then and not get a home but live off the welfare and charity instead...if still exist....
    Happy Jack
    21st Feb 2016
    8:24pm
    Really!!! can these characters be trusted? we'll all recall before the last election- "NO CHANGES TO PENSIONS" well, just ask anyone you know that's in a defined benefits scheme> I know of two instances where pensioners have lost $170 a fortnight. Not bad from a LIEberal party that promised before the last election "NO CHANGES TO THE PENSION IN THIS TERM" liars, liars, liars.
    Anonymous
    22nd Feb 2016
    8:39am
    Not just those in defined benefits schemes, Happy Jack. Also hundreds of thousands who apparently committed a cardinal sin by saving for retirement but then finding that with smashed investment returns they can't earn half what an aged pensioner gets, so what does the government do? Cut's their income by a further $15,000 a year plus and tells them they are ''millionaires'' so they should eat up their savings living day to day. And in two decades from now, when they need aged care and costs have skyrocketed to where the piddling few hundred grand they have left is next to useless? Well, they'll be burdens on the taxpayer, won't they? Save a few dollars with false economies now, spend millions later. But meanwhile keep pouring billions into the coffers of the wealthy. ($50+ billion in super tax concessions by 2016-7, and 80% of that goes to the wealthiest 20%). Yep. Let's make the aged pension a loan. Got to find that $50+ billion somewhere to keep lining the mega-millionaire's pockets!
    Happy Jack
    21st Feb 2016
    8:49pm
    Hey, germsjerk69, the point in question was which Government has presided over the highest interest rates. You respond with some crap about outlays when we all know Malcom Fraser holds the record. Sounds like you've been hitting the turps, 'again'! most likely with ice too. One good thing, the punctuation skills have picked up. Looks like you may have been attending those English classes. Keep the good work up- you may even improve on the two comma's and progress to using capital letters and full stops. I find it difficult to go past you for the weekly award of " most improved player" germsjerk69. congratulations.
    Anonymous
    22nd Feb 2016
    5:42pm
    another hee-haw, hee-haw comment by the jackass, another rainy day at his farm or is it a sunny day and it is frying his brains, either way he is not improving!

    22nd Feb 2016
    12:06pm
    SOMEBODY PLEASE GET THESE COMMENTS TO THE IDIOTS IN CANBERRA
    ex PS
    22nd Feb 2016
    1:19pm
    Why not send them a message yourself, support an Independant candidate in the next election. Give them the message that mediocre management of the country will no longer be tolerated, it's been three years since this government took charge and very little improvement has been achieved. I'm sick of hearing that it is all the previous governments fault, if this excuse was floated in the private sector after so long in charge the new boss would be sacked for being incapable of doing their job.
    What is this governments finest achievement, they have locked up thousands of people indefinatley without trial who have not committed a crime.
    In my book this does not come close to making them deserving of another term in government.
    Eve
    22nd Feb 2016
    2:10pm
    Can someone make sure that Kate Carnell hears what we think of her idea? She's trying to smooth the way for something perhaps less drastic, but still against the interests of the working and middle classes. It's important that this ludicrous suggestion has no traction at all - which seems pretty clear judging by the overwhelming majority of responses. Ms Carnell, you reputation lies in tatters. And you've earned it.
    Anonymous
    22nd Feb 2016
    7:53pm
    when questioned: is the pension a loan, read the answers and or their attempts to falsify the real issue, one has to shake his/her head, their answers show a complete lack of brains by those who attempt to tackle such a question., jackass could not answer an honest question even if his ars. was on fire, greatest contribution of jannie, the idiots in canberra, yet no one has answered the question, should it be a loan?
    great to see the pro labor forces at work and life choises assisting, the me, me, me forces at work.
    ex PS
    22nd Feb 2016
    10:48pm
    I think the real question should be, should any government have the right to seize private property in order to provide a service that it has already committed to provide?
    I think that any sort of impartial contemplation of the responses in this forum would lead to a conclusive that the overwheiming majority of contributers are against looking at the pension as some kind of loan.
    What has not been explained by the so called experts is what will happen to the housing stock when the original owners no longer have ownership of it? It seems to me that it will have to be released onto the market and will cause a glut that will devalue real estate by catastrofic levels. The result could be as bad as that of the USA housing crisis that caused the last GFC.

    23rd Feb 2016
    12:35pm
    The pension is an entitlement if you pass the assets and income test. I know of no one who gets a full or part pension without doing so.

    23rd Feb 2016
    1:17pm
    So all you smarties, tell me why people living in million dollar plus homes in Sydney and Melbourne should be kept by the tax payer, then leave their inflated valued home to one or two kids after 20 years of income support by the whole community? Where is the fairness/equity in that? If your parents are wealthy, and you are one of two siblings, you can look forward to a lifetime of luxury, after having the entire tax paying community supporting your aged parents - are you telling me that is fair???
    ex PS
    23rd Feb 2016
    6:12pm
    Simple Big Al, take the housing market on the Gold Coast as an example. Land on certain parts of the Gold Coast in the sixties was fairly cheap because of the lack of infrastructure, it was considered a cheap place to buy property. In simple terms, you did not have to be wealthy to build a modest home there.
    Over the decades because yuppies have decided to make these areas popular, people who have modest homes have had there properties revalued. I ask you, is it fair or reasonable that these people should be penalised for something that is beyond their control? They have already been pinged for exhorbitant rates because of this revaluation.
    Milion dollar properties do not automatically translate to wealthy occupants.
    I can't speak for the Sydney or Melbourne markets but I should imagine that they would be the same.
    Adrianus
    23rd Feb 2016
    6:25pm
    Big Al, I agree!
    Why are we paying welfare to people with substantial wealth?
    ex PS, nice try but your excuse fails miserably. What you are in fact suggesting is that those millionaires are ignorant in financial matters and therefor deserve welfare because of this ignorance?
    ex PS
    24th Feb 2016
    6:15pm
    Frank, I offer no excuses for millionaires who steal money off the poor by rorting the system. In fact I took great pains to point out that I was talking about ordinary people who for one reason or another ended up with houses worth loads of money. Are you suggesting that if an ordinary worker has the good luck to be in a position where there property values increase very quickly they should sell up immediatley and move to a less valuable area because it has become too good for them?
    I am simply stating a fact, and that fact is, you may live in a property worth over a million dollars but that does not mean you are wealthy. In South Brisbane a major redevelopement has occured in the last ten years or so, properties that were worth $300,000 are now worth $800,000 because of the developement around them.
    Did the people owning these properties suddenly become rich?
    I do not disagree that people who do not need it should not get a pension.
    I do disagree with simplistic thoughtless assumptions being made about people based on very little information and no investigation into individual circumstances.
    whatsupdok
    24th Feb 2016
    12:01pm
    I repeat as before, its not about what it is or should be. Its about people spending their whole lives under a set of plans and rules to suddenly have the carpet swept out from under them at a time when its too late to adjust to new rules. People at acertain stage in their lives need to be left alone. Im 67 and totally over taxes and rule changes. Leave me alone.
    Fair Go
    10th Mar 2016
    3:54pm
    So we are now 3rd from the bottom in the pensions list, it was not long ago 2nd from the bottom, only after the good old USA. I wonder how we moved up a peg? One way or the other, they are trying to get our homes. That woman ought to be banned from making public statements, every time she opens her mouth publicly some ridiculous idea falls from it. So tired of being blamed for all the country's ailments (as a pensioner who did work most of her life).


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