7th Nov 2018
Those with most to lose unimpressed with ALP’s policy move
Author: Ben Hocking
Franking credits could cost votes

Older Australians are unimpressed with Labor’s plan to deny franking credit refunds if it wins the next federal election, with more than half of respondents in the YourLifeChoices’ Friday Flash Poll saying the issue would encourage them to vote for a party other than the ALP.

The proposal to withhold taxes paid on share dividends was certainly divisive among our members, with 16 per cent of respondents claiming that the issue made them more likely to vote for the ALP at the next election.

With 1073 respondents to the poll, the results show that those most upset about the proposed change are the ones with the most to lose.

Nearly half of respondents (49 per cent) to the survey were fully self-funded, which compares to roughly 30 per cent of the general retired population, while a further 11 per cent of respondents were still employed either full time or part time.

Two-thirds (67 per cent) admitted that they owned shares outside of their superannuation and 63 per cent claimed that they would be directly affected by the policy change.

Of the 3.8 million Australians aged 65 and over, the policy stands to affect just on 10 per cent of them.

In the YourLifeChoices 2018 Retirement Matters Survey, we learnt that more than 34 per cent of the 5203 participants owned shares outside of super.

With the numbers heavily skewed towards those most likely to be affected, it was perhaps unsurprising that 60 per cent of respondents considered franking credit refunds fair, while only 31 per cent supported the tax loophole being removed.

The following are the opinions of YourLifeChoices members and not necessarily those of the writer or publisher. Some have been edited for style and grammar purposes.

“Pensioners are the new elite in today's Australia – and so consumed with greed, selfishness and envy that they are cheering Shorten's vicious attack on the self-funded. Sadly, they will hurt most when the policy is implemented and the damage it threatens to the economy is realised. Poor fools think there is a bottomless pit filled with money. They just don't get that someone has to foot their bills - and destroying the lifestyle of those who not only funded pensions when they were working, but planned to ensure they continued to be lifters in retirement, may well be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back – plunging us into deep Depression.” ~ OnlyGenuineRainey

“Tax people according to their income instead. It is not right that people can earn $110,000 and pay no tax after retirement age. Under Labor many of these people will still do that but a person earning $20,000 will have his income reduced by not refunding this franking credits. This is the same as taxing him at 30 per cent whereas the person on $110,000 pays not tax.” ~ VeryCaringBigBear

“To change tax rules that impact retirees and make it retrospective is patently unfair. It could be grandfathered for example to give those of us who dare to be self funded and do not rely on government funds for our retirement.” ~ Ferny

“The top end always takes care of itself and retirees have been constantly under attack from the current government. The last thing we need is to force self funded retirees to live off their capital rather than the dividends thereon. The result of that will be many more on the pension. What then?” ~ Mick

“Find an Independent of some standing and vote for them. The Wentworth by-election has seen the Liberal stronghold smashed. The main parties need to be destroyed and sent back to the wilderness until they get some semblance of decency.” ~ Retired Knowall

“Great and meaningful survey. My cynical view of Mr Shorten is that he is working to remove the loophole for the benefit of industry super funds. If my wife and I owned a business, we would distribute the profits between ourselves and pay tax only once. My wife and I are part owners (shareholders) in approximately 30 companies and they pay tax on our behalf hence we are entitled to claim it back if we are not liable (franking credits). We are not wealthy, but independent through 45 years of marriage, working hard and managing our expenditure to provide for an independent retirement. Shorten needs to come clean and tell us which industry super funds put pressure on the Labor party or which union leaders.” ~ Mon

“Everyone with this sort of investment only has it because it is 'tax effective' ie, rips off the general public. Anyone affected will just ask their accountant to find a new investment vehicle. Big deal.” ~ Travellersjoy

“Maybe sell the shares? If they are such a burden, get rid of them and use the money in another way. Luckily, we have nothing but our home to worry about protecting. Maybe pity the single pensioner who has no home and is struggling to afford their medicines and food. Some have become homeless. In Venezuela people are starving and children are on the streets. People are going through rubbish dumps hoping to find a bit of food. Watching this on TV this morning should put things in perspective about first world issues where we have food and don’t have to give away our children because we cannot feed them.” ~ Paddington

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    COMMENTS

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    MICK
    7th Nov 2018
    9:10am
    Looks like the battle lines are drawn. Shorten needs to either allow some franking credits to continue to exist or face a potential loss in the polls.

    The solution is simple: put a threshhold in place after which franking credits cut out. That catches wealthy investors as it should.
    What part of retirees having been made a target and attacked relentlessly by the current government does Labor not understand? Retirees need a fair go otherwise the tax burden will simply become worse. Oh for intelligent government.
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    12:26pm
    Mick A better solution is to get rid of the tax free income for over 60. It only benefits the wealthy and those with big retirement incomes. Those with moderate retirement incomes wold actually be better off paying tax and getting their 15% rebate on their super pension as the extra rebate would be available to pay the tax on their extra income outside super.

    Those with high retirement income would then pay their marginal rate of tax less the 15% rebate.

    Taxing those over 60 may not get any where near what Labor thinks it can get by no refunding franking credits but Labor's modelling is flawed and it will be lucky to get a fraction of what it modelling shows.
    MICK
    7th Nov 2018
    1:29pm
    Rubbish.
    Only a handful of self funded retirees are from the top end of town making zillions. Most of us earn around the pension. Perhaps a bit more, perhaps less. The issue is that attacking those who do not want to be pensioners will result in many joining the pension ranks when the capital is spent. Then the bastards will wail endlessly on how to fix the mess they are creating.
    As I said PUT UP A THRESHHOLD so that retirees can pay their way. This is NOT about subsidising a lifestyle of any kind!
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    1:42pm
    Mick Those big end of town now get their super tax free. If they are making zillions then taxing them at their marginal rate less the 15% rebate would tax them on their zillions. This will bring in a lot more tax than any threshold. All a threshold will do is allow the big end of town to arrange their affairs so they are under the threshold.

    A retired person can now have income well over $100,000 and not pay any tax on it. Labor is not going to change this. A threshold on amputated credits will not change this.
    MICK
    7th Nov 2018
    1:55pm
    A threshhold is not intended for those who are earning large incomes. It is meant for those at the other end and a few dollars going into the bank accounts of the rich will only be confetti to them anyway. If you are concerned with that then INCREASE THE TAX RATES.
    Oh yes....you only ever give the wealthy top tax cuts, never increases.
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    3:35pm
    They should just leave franking credit be . When it aint broke, don't stick your grubby hands on it
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Nov 2018
    6:39pm
    I agree Lothario. The current policy is right, fair and logical. Changing it will just push a lot more retirees onto the pension, but that suits Labor. It's all about control. They can control people who are economically dependent. Labor despises the self-sufficient.
    Kali-G
    7th Nov 2018
    11:54am
    Socialism has never worked anywhere on Earth...so why trust a single word this Socialist union thug utters???? He is the captain of a ship with no rudder, no steering just a dead wish for all of us.
    1984
    7th Nov 2018
    1:13pm
    Comrade Kali-G, modern socialism is far better & more equal to the masses than the current corrupt capitalist governments of the current era. Profit at all costs so the rich get richer & the the ever increasing gap of the poor becomes an insurmountable abyss.
    MICK
    7th Nov 2018
    1:33pm
    Thugs? Only a moron could ignore the last 6 years and trot out this sort of propaganda.
    In case you have been under a rock for that time the top end of town has made money hand over fist. Read about it here:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/nov/05/joseph-stiglitz-america-should-be-a-warning-to-other-countries

    The top end also gave itself a generous tax cut and cried poor when it could not add on a Company Tax cut as well.

    What you want is a return to feudal times when the top 1% owned and controlled everything and the rest of humanity lived in abject poverty and often went hungry. Go live in America if you want that. Alive and well in 'The Land of the (not) Free'. Australia does not need or want you!
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    3:36pm
    The guardian is an extreme left wing rag.
    Toilet paper
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Nov 2018
    9:09pm
    I agree with Karl. Modern socialism is better than the current corrupt socialist government. However, Labor is not ''modern socialist''. We can't afford to let either LNP or Labor hold the reins. Both are self-interested, inept, and acting against the interests of the nation.
    roy
    7th Nov 2018
    10:00pm
    That union thug is a piece of filth, google Bill Shorten union bully boy and adulter and the tell me you would vote for him,sheesh.
    Misty
    8th Nov 2018
    12:50am
    Be careful who you call what roy, Bill Shorten had already split up with his wife before he took up with Chloie, do you have evidence to the contrary?.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    6:46am
    He's still a union thug, a piece of filth and a bully boy, whether technically an adulterer or not. Prize hypocrite as well. Pretends to be on the side of the battler but is robbing low income earners who strive to be self-supporting in order to over-indulge the wealthier.
    Paddington
    8th Nov 2018
    11:23am
    Unions are why you have many of the benefits you have enjoyed during your working life and your descendents continue to enjoy.

    Don’t look at one aspect of a political party but the whole entity. Don’t look just for yourself. Look at policies and practices. Do you care about the environment? Is fairness and inclusiveness important to you? Do education and health matter to you and your family? And so on and so forth.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    8:10am
    Yes, Paddington, I DO care about fairness and inclusion and health and education, which is why I could NEVER SUPPORT the ALP, much less unions.

    Unions are certainly NOT why I have any benefits. They are part of the reason life was very hard. They STOLE my partner's superannuation - and that of thousands of others - to indulge a greedy and unconscionable employer. And they caused a devastating accident that resulted in my partner to have to resign - and leading to years of unemployment and ongoing health problems - by flatly refusing to support a complaint about a seriously dangerous (and illegal) workplace practice. They then threatened him with dire consequences if he sued for compensation, because doing so would expose the union's failure. Not that he could have anyway, because the employer shut down.

    The union rep's reply to requests for help to stop the dangerous practices: ""Doesn't put me at risk, and I'm on a good wicket here. I don't want to rock the boat.''' But they DID strike over a trivial political issue, winning the vote by telling the greedy 'on call' staff that they would be paid anyway so only the low income workers would suffer.


    Now UNIONS are supporting the ALP THUG to demolish my retirement income, after I worked my guts out for 40+ years, despite incredible hardships, to save enough to be just above the asset threshold, with an income LESS than pensioners enjoy.

    Don't ask me to believe your communist BS. The ALP is a mob of thugs, and unions are run by self-serving bullies. They have no concept of fairness, and they sure don't give a damn about health or education or the environment. But they will use a fancy pretence to get what they want.
    Chat
    7th Nov 2018
    11:55am
    From some of the comments some people clearly do not understand what Franking Credits are. Companies pay tax on behalf of their shareholder, which they then return to the shareholder in the form of a franking credit which allows the shareholder to claim it back at the time of filling in their tax return because it has already been paid.
    If your income is high enough to be taxable this becomes a deduction only.
    However if your income is below the taxable threshold this tax, that you have already paid, is returned to you ---- because you were not in a taxable income bracket.
    It is these people, with low incomes, that are going to be penalised because they are not going to receive this refund.
    As an example the full dividend for a share holding might be $200.00 but the company only pays you $100 and gives the other $100 as the franking credit.
    What Bill Shorten is doing to low income earners who don't fall into a tax bracket is to keep the $100 tax return that was due to be repaid.
    It is only people who do not fall into a taxable bracket (the low income earner) that will be affected --- not the big end of town.
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    12:11pm
    A better example is that the dividend is $100. Company pay you $70 and remit $30 to the ATO on your behalf. Franking credits are limited to 30% of the dividend.

    Looks like BHP has become the first with a buyback that is mostly a fully franked dividend. I expect more before the end of the financial year.
    Jim
    7th Nov 2018
    12:39pm
    It’s clearly an attempt to divide the population, using the same envy politics that Corbyn has so successfully used in the UK, the only people criticising the franking credits refund are the people who either don’t understand or the mischievous agents that populate this site. The tax is refundable because if you are below the tax free threshold you are not liable for the tax that has been paid on your behalf, it’s fairly simple to understand, unless of course you have an agenda to create confusion!
    MICK
    7th Nov 2018
    1:38pm
    You are correct Chat but you trivialise this. Jim's comment has a handle on it but many investors at the top end of town utilise it as well because they manage to massage their taxable incomes through schemes of arrangement, offshore tax havens and Trusts.

    Your argument falls flat Chat when you consider what happens when you employ a tradesman for example. The tradie will pay tax on what you pay him when he fills out his annual return but YOU will not get this back. Same deal.

    The best option for Shorten to not alienate retiree voters is to put a sensible threshhold in place after which franking credits (above that figure) cease to apply. LISTEN BILL!!!!
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    1:51pm
    Mick Paying tradies has nothing to do with franking credits unless you are a shareholder in the tradies business.

    What sort of threshold are you talking about?
    MICK
    7th Nov 2018
    1:59pm
    The concept is exactly the same because the tradie PAYS THE TAX VIA HIS RETURN.
    I'd be suggesting a franking credit threshhold of around $15,000 to $20,000 above which any excess franking credits become worthless.
    Shorten has to decide if he wants to destitute hundreds of thousands of self funded retirees or require the top end to pay a fair share of tax. That will be both his challenge and the sign of whether or not he is worthy of the job.
    Jim
    7th Nov 2018
    2:59pm
    The difference between the tradie paying his tax is that the tradie is paying tax on his income, franking credits are the tax paid on the investors income, if you are alluding to the gst that is paid by you to the tradie who then pays it to the ato naturally you can’t claim that back nor should you be able to, but if you are running a buisness and pay gst on anything that you buy for the buisness you are entitled to claim that tax back, then whatever product you make attracts the gst that you then pay to the ato. So I can’t understand why people receiving the franking credits back when their income falls below the tax free threshold is causing so much concern, every tax payer operates under the same rules, ie if your income falls below the tax free threshold you are entitled to claim back any tax that has been paid on your behalf wether that tax has been paid through the PAYE system or through franking credits/tax, if your income is above the tax free threshold then you pay tax on that income, I know these comments won’t change some people’s minds, I just can’t understand why, there seems to be a deliberate attempt at confusion.
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    3:25pm
    Jim the confusion I because the non return of ranking credits policy fails the common sense rule and make no sense at all.
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    3:39pm
    Mick is either confused or deliberately trying to confuse others.
    No wonder labor wins votes , its supporters son't understand simple tax and economic issues
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    7:47am
    Mick, you tradie example is totally irrelevant. The Tradie pays tax on his income and HE gets back any excess if he pays more than his annual return shows he should. It's HIS income and HIS tax. None of it ever belonged to the customer under any circumstances.

    Shareholder income is different entirely. It BELONGS to the shareholder. It's NOT someone else's income. It's the SHAREHOLDER'S income. But the company pays tax out of it in the same way an employer pays tax out of an employee's income. If the shareholder is not liable to pay tax, he/she should get it back - same as the employee does if they were overtaxed.

    The only person overtaxed in the tradie scenario is the tradie, and his tax will be adjusted if he paid too much.

    In the shareholder scenario, it's the shareholder who is overtaxed, and therefore it's right and proper that it should be adjusted. But Shorten says ''No, we'll ONLY adjust it for the well off. Low income earners can be screwed."

    Franking credit policy is RIGHT AND FAIR. If people are dodging tax, address that problem. Shorten is putting a band aid on the uninjured knee while the cut arm bleeds profusely. But he knows EXACTLY what he's doing. He's winning control the same way the communists did - by impoverishing people and making them dependent on welfare so they can't rebel when things are wrong.
    Chris B T
    7th Nov 2018
    12:06pm
    A Donkey Vote Is Looming. The Choice Between Two Arse's you still end up with an arse.
    Hea Hor
    {;-(
    MICK
    7th Nov 2018
    1:41pm
    Voters are starting to look for good Independents. They have then in places like Austria and it works from my limited understanding of their system. After all the concept of democracy involves voting in candidates who are NOT tied to a political party and who will come to decisions based on merit rather than who is providing them with funds to promote themselves at the next election.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Nov 2018
    9:07pm
    Hopefully, independents and minors will dominate and stop Labor's disgusting grab for cash from struggling low-income retirees who are saving the nation tens of thousands every year, yet being abused by greedy pensioners who are collecting handouts from taxpayers yet demanding those NOT getting handouts be robbed.
    Chris B T
    7th Nov 2018
    9:31pm
    You need quality Candidates or At Least Candidates Willing To Truly Represent The ELECTORATE. Won't Be Bullied Into Party "BS".
    Most Electorates Don't Have Much Choice It is one Arse over another Arse.
    Truly Independents are very few.
    {;<(
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    12:13pm
    Australian Investors Association submission.

    This gives a good understand on what franking credits are and what people will do if Labor brings in this unfair non return of franking credits policy.

    https://asn.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=7bb3777772ad5e61cf370dfc5&id=8399f1ee8a&e=cf4d881274
    MICK
    7th Nov 2018
    1:46pm
    Not bad OG. On the rare occasion you have something to say which is worth listening to.
    MON
    7th Nov 2018
    12:32pm
    I am surprised at the lack of understanding that people of all ages and education levels have of Franking Credits.

    I am one of the self funded retirees that will be affected by this change but perhaps if we all read up on the matter, not relying on Bill Shorten to educate us, we would all be better informed.

    By the acquisition of shares in a publicly listed organisation I become an owner of that portion of the company. I liken this to the apartment building where I live and have a shareholding, my apartment, which by virtue of the plan of subdivision represents 1.45% of the total building and, as a result, i am a shareholder paying 1.45% of the expenses of the building.

    Likewise, by virtue of the share-register of those companies in which I own shares, I own a portion of that company upon which I am entitled to be paid the profits as per my percentage holding. I am duty bound to declare those franking credits on my annual tax return and as the company has been taxed on the total profits before distribution, I am entitled to a refund from the ATO for taxes paid on my behalf but not due.

    Of course, Bill Shorten, has been short on detail and short on integrity by way of painting myself and my wife as wealthy people cheating the tax system through a loop hole in the tax legislation. There is no loop hole, it is legislation, correctly drafted and passed by parliament in a bid to deliver individuals the ability to remove themselves form the public purse and live a peaceful life in retirement. Thanks Bill Shorten - now tell the truth, this is being done to benefit industry based union super funds.
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    6:28pm
    I'd like to see a study done to prove that those on pension in an industry fund are actually getting their franking credits. Rates of return indicate to me they are not.
    Julian
    8th Nov 2018
    8:41am
    Mon: Excellent response from a different angle. Clearly, the franking credit is a right not a privilege!

    Thankyou. I hope all of the subscribers on this blog read your analogy.
    Old Man
    7th Nov 2018
    12:37pm
    What I find interesting is the figure of "only" 10% will be affected. The next election will see those seats with less than a 5% margin being very crucial to who will form government so "only" 10% looms large in the battle.
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    1:46pm
    Old Man read that Australian Investors Association submission that I posted as it gives the real outcomes of non return of franking credits.
    Old Man
    7th Nov 2018
    2:15pm
    Sorry OG, nothing you say is of any interest to me. I find what you have been saying over the years as condescending and quite often the opposite of what you have previously said. Yopu have the right to post in this forum, I have the right to ignore it.
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    3:10pm
    Good that's your choice to stick your head in the sand and ignore the world.
    Captain
    7th Nov 2018
    4:13pm
    OG, if you read OM's comment, he does not have his head in the sand, quite the opposite.

    If he wishes to take no interest in your comments so be it, but do not say he is sticking his head in the sand and ignoring the world. Quite rightly so, he is ignoring your comments.
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    6:26pm
    Oh dear we are being precious now.
    floss
    7th Nov 2018
    1:36pm
    Silly Billy you are only hitting the little guys.We expect that type of behaviour from the Libs not from Labor.
    MICK
    7th Nov 2018
    1:47pm
    Ditto.
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    3:45pm
    LnP has done more for the little guy then labor ever has

    The strength of our economy, low unemployment and surplus budgets is the only sustainable way to help everyone.

    Handouts are just vote buying welfare that labor employs at the expense of long term wealth creation for the little guy
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    4:24pm
    If you think Labor will look after the little guy then think again. Higher GST and other taxes.
    Paddington
    7th Nov 2018
    9:23pm
    Lothario OG, falling over laughing here. LNP cares about the little guy? They never have and never will.
    Misty
    8th Nov 2018
    12:56am
    What garbage you spout Lothario, who is giving the handout now then?, your mate Scommo that's who, vote buying is what he is all about.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    7:24am
    What handout is that, Misty? How is he ScoMo buying votes? By saying he'd rather raise the aged pension than Newstart. Or by being FAIR and letting low income earners keep their franking credits instead of taxing people 30% on income that shouldn't be taxed, and plunging them into hardship after a lifetime of work and saving to BENEFIT the nation by $1 million or more by not claiming a pension?

    NEITHER party cares about the little guy. If Shorten cared about the little guy, he wouldn't be letting the rich keep their franking credit tax credit while stealing from those with very low incomes.
    alfie
    7th Nov 2018
    1:37pm
    How many self retirees are there that earn $110,000 a year from their super? I wish I did!! Many self retirees are lucky to have $100K in their super funds and Bill wants to steal their small franking credits which mean a lot to them/me to make ends meet.
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    1:44pm
    Those that earn $110,00 pay no tax on it either which doesn't change under Labor. However the people who earns $20,000 loses their franking credits which reduces their income under Labor.
    MICK
    7th Nov 2018
    1:52pm
    Who earns $110,000 pa? Very very few.

    The issue is as OG highlights above that those making a living at pension levels are being targeted. That comes after a whole pile of attacks from the current government trying to shake out retirees after a life time of work and saving. We really do not need this and a way will be found which will come back to haunt any government which continues the attack.

    Shorten needs to be careful he does not alienate support from retirees. I have read the changing attitude from some. That leaves a malicious top end of town government or another which intends to keep attacking retirees. Plenty of Independents out there and maybe time to choose one......who is not however a Liberal in sheep's clothing.
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    2:31pm
    No Mick those above $110,000 are not being targeted by Labor. If their income has no franking credits they lose nothing. If they have franking credits then they will just change their investment mix or structure so they don't lose anything. Labor gains nothing form them at all.
    Paddington
    7th Nov 2018
    9:30pm
    Alfie, in that situation you would have a part pension and still get your franking credits.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    7:33am
    Yes, Paddington. Shorten is favouring pensioners - regardless of their wealth (and many ARE quite wealthy) and hanging anyone who worked and saved and was self-sufficient as at March 2018 - demolishing their lifestyle and denying them fairness for the rest of their lives.
    And apparently you are so selfish that that's okay with you?

    Mick, Labor has given absolute assurance that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL ITS POLICY ON FRANKING CREDITS BE CHANGED. Bowen said ''it's set in stone now and will NOT be reviewed, no matter what opposition he sees. He insists that figures proving most who will e hurt earn less than $37000 a year aren't valid. According to his fanciful logic, the figures are misleading because those folk reduce their taxable income with franking credits. He forgot that most retirees don't pay tax, and most affected have their shares in superannuation funds anyway, so that is total BS.
    Nerk
    7th Nov 2018
    2:13pm
    If I loose my credits I'll be able to get the pension.
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    3:39pm
    No you wont - that's the stupidity of labor's policy
    Paddington
    7th Nov 2018
    9:36pm
    Nerk you probably will if your income drops.
    Pensioners and part pensioners will not lose their franking credits. If you are so close to getting the pension then it is probably within your reach as I know some have arranged their money in a way that they get the pension and still have a lot of money.
    They have even worked with Centrelink to get and keep the pension.
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    9:38pm
    PADDINGTON - YOU ARE CLUELESS

    PENSIONERS AND SFR'S WILL LOSE THEIR FRANKING CREDITS

    NERK WONT GET THE PENSION BECAUSE THE DEEMING RATES STAY THE SAME , SO DOES THE ASSET THRESHOLD !!!!!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    7:20am
    Nerk will get the pension if he goes on an expensive cruise, or upgrades his family home - which is looking like the best option for people like him. But he will NEVER get franking credits again. They are reserved for the ELITE who were on pensions before March 2018. Doesn't matter how poor others become, they will be discriminated against for life for having worked hard and saved a little.

    Yes Paddington, plenty arranged their money in a way to get the pension and still have a lot of money. Shorten will reward them. He's only punishing those who did what we were all told to do for the good of the nation - SAVE and TRY to be self-sufficient for as long as possible.
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    2:23pm
    Copied from the Stop the Retirement Tax Campaign.

    Retirement Tax Facts

    Fully franked dividends are a well-established component of Australia’s tax system to stop double taxation and ensure overpaid tax is returned to Australians in their full tax refunds.

    When companies make a profit they pay company tax. When shareholders receive dividends they come with tax refunds to ensure there isn’t double taxation paid by individuals – once through company tax, and once through income tax.

    These refunds are reflected in the price of shares when they’re purchased.
    Just like everyone else, when you overpay tax you get it back in their full tax refund. If Labor cuts back refundable franked dividends retirees will lose that right and some will lose their full tax refund.

    Critically, many Australians sacrificed in their working years so they wouldn’t be wholly dependent on a pension. They bought shares knowing they’d get full refunds to support their income.

    High income earners won’t lose. They’ll still be able to use their full refund to reduce their tax liability. It will be Australians on low incomes that will lose because their overpaid tax credit will only count against the direct tax they’ve paid – they’ll lose their full refund. If implemented many Australian retirees will be at risk of falling below the poverty line.

    That’s not fair.
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    3:34pm
    Good - I hope it costs them dearly - THIEVES 111
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Nov 2018
    6:15pm
    It's alarming how many pensioners and others unaffected by this support the proposal. The greed and selfishness of pensioners who support it is disturbing. These people are getting handouts averaging $1 million over the course of their retirement, but they begrudge people who are living on their own savings a fair tax deal that gives them a few thousand a year to top up what may well be a very low income. Sick!
    Old Geezer
    7th Nov 2018
    6:22pm
    Just shows the greed of those on welfare.
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    6:26pm
    I agree with you Only Genuine Rainey. Its the politics of envy that certain parties use to win votes.
    The promise these people more handouts by saying that they cant increase pensions because self funded retirees get too many tax breaks
    Paddington
    7th Nov 2018
    9:20pm
    What is your annual income? If people on here were to come clean and state their actual income pensioners renting and struggling might be able to understand?
    Many pensioners have to choose what they can buy from week to week because they have no investments or homes that they own.
    Home owning pensioners are better off for sure but without savings or investments they have to be very careful with their money.
    Make them understand by supplying some figures.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    7:04am
    Fine, Paddington. I'll supply figures. In my working life, there was TWO years when I earned above the minimum wage. I had two long breaks from work due to illness and worked part time for half my working life. My partner worked for low wages for 25 years and earned nothing (due to disability for which he DID not claim any benefit) for the rest of his working life, quitting at 54 due to disability and not receiving any benefit because we had savings.

    We now have - between us - just over the asset threshold, so get no benefits whatever. $100,000 approx. is in furniture, car, personal effects and liquid case to live on. Our investment earn about 5% - so income is $37500 less $4000 admin costs = $33500, and we live in constant fear of share market falls and reduced dividends. Shorten's vile act will reduce our income by between $7000 and $9000, depending on how it impacts some managed funds.

    Currently, I work to earn an extra $12000 a year to compensate for what we SHOULD have received in part pension. Given that we might live another 30 years, and we have well above average health costs due to chronic inherited illness and my partner's disability (resulting from abuse and neglect in childhood and workplace injury that was not compensated because employer closed shop) I think we have good reason to say we are far from wealthy and will struggle to remain self-funded.

    We have a modest but comfortable home, thanks to having built it ourselves brick by brick, on weekends and nights over five working years, living in a shed with young children in freezing conditions with no running water and an outside dunny.

    Personally, I'm fed up with these hard-luck stories justifying robbing people like us with unfair removal of franking credits - which currently adjust our tax from UNFAIR to FAIR
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    7:09am
    I might add that while I know there are pensioners who had a tough ride, I personally can't find a single one who had it harder than we did - and most had it far, far, far easier. They just chose to spend much more freely. Of course they THINK they had it tougher, because their view of hardship comes from comparing their lot with folk who were better off than them. But the reality is that MOST retired Australians SHOULD own their own home and have at least a modest saving nest egg if they had lived responsibly. Certainly not all. There are genuine exceptions. But there is NO JUSTIFICATION for stealing from battlers who are contributing tens of thousands annually by not claiming pensions and are no better off than many pensioners and much worse off than nearly all part pensioners.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    7:13am
    And I forgot to add that as well as struggling on low incomes, we shelled out $100,000 of our own money for medical care and therapies for a special needs child - who is now paying hefty taxes from a good job to subsidize the welfare of pensioners who were living very well back when we were struggling to pay those bills, and who are now demanding we be robbed and whinging about how badly off they are on their government handout.

    I'm not like OG or Lothario, I am not without empathy and understanding. But I am disgusted that pensioners are being so selfish as to support Shorten's attack on folk like me, and shocked that they are so stupid as to believe his lies when it's patently obvious it his policy CANNOT hurt the well off, because they keep their tax credit.
    Paddington
    8th Nov 2018
    11:37am
    Thank you for explaining that OGR. I do not think it should be SFR vs pensioner though!
    If nasty comments are made on here then people respond to that. Poorest ones are probably the single female who is renting and she should not be attacked for that. Old ladies should not be made homeless. Men either of course! Very vulnerable people!
    Compassion is important too. There are a few on here who continually incite hate and seek to divide the groups. Maybe everyone should tone down the defence and argument and realise each person is struggling in some way.
    I don’t envy people having more than I do and know there are lots who have less.
    George
    8th Nov 2018
    3:30pm
    Yes, OGR, quite right. It is shocking to find "..16 per cent of respondents claiming that the issue made them more likely to vote for the ALP at the next election." I would have thought these jealous pigs would already be Labor voters, or maybe they are the Greens!
    Old Geezer
    8th Nov 2018
    4:40pm
    George I'd say they are just greedy pensioners who can't bear to have anyone having more than them.

    There is no other explanation that makes any sense.
    George
    8th Nov 2018
    8:41pm
    I would not generalise as you did, OG. Pensioners in general are not greedy, but of course some are jealous (as in most areas of life). Even the rich are jealous of those richer than themselves and usually more greedy than most pensioners.

    I prefer my explanation - a bunch of jealous Greens voters who are now switching over to Labor. A win for Labor I suppose!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    8:22am
    Well Paddington, Shorten and Bowen made it SFRs vs pensioners by selling their LIES. And pensioners are making it SFRs vs Pensioners by supporting the ALP policy - believing the lies.

    If people would READ the TRUTH and understand franking credits correctly, they would understand what is wrong with the ALP's garbage:

    (a) it takes from poorer workers and retirees to give more to the rich
    (b) it reverses a reform that enabled healthy investment opportunities and business growth, creating jobs and driving growth
    (c) it reverses a sensible and fair reform that helped Australia survive the GFC in better shape than other nations.

    I agree wholeheartedly with addressing tax avoidance, and I am concerned that SOME get excess franking credit refunds because they avoid tax unfairly. But the solution to that IS NOT to attack franking credits, which are FAIR and EQUITABLE, and good for the economy.

    Stop the avoidance and the franking credits paid to avoiders ceases to be an issue. The IDIOT ALP is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Nov 2018
    6:44pm
    Look at the expression on this scumbag's face. Did you ever see a more self-satisfied, arrogant SMIRK. How could anyone vote for that? I hate LNP and had determined never to vote for them again after they demolished the lifestyles of so many who struggled to accumulate modest savings for retirement and be as self-sufficient as they could be. But it looks like I have to find a worthy independent or minor, because I sure could not vote for this creep or for the stinking unfair policy he is promoting - especially given the massive lies he told to sell his policy to the gullible ill-informed.
    Paddington
    8th Nov 2018
    12:46pm
    What a load of rubbish! You can’t see that in the face. When you talk like that you lose credibility!
    “Scumbag?” There is no need for that.
    You need to respect all pensioners, all self refunded retirees, the different groups represented on here.
    If you want people to believe you, then you must be kind and fair.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    8:47am
    That works both ways, Paddington. When people stop supporting the demolition of my lifestyle and UNFAIR taxation, I'll treat them with respect.

    While they are LYING, supporting cruelty and unfairness, and being total HYPOCRITES (endorsing a policy change that ONLY hurts lower income battlers, while claiming to be on the side of battlers!), they will never have my respect.

    I respect people who stand for TRUTH and FAIRNESS.
    Paddington
    7th Nov 2018
    9:13pm
    Where are the comments from the people who have nothing? All these seem to be from people who have a decent standard of living. Let us hear from the pensioner who struggles to pay rent,buy food and have the medicines they need. Pensioners and part pensioners will not lose their franking credits.
    I know a couple who continually spend down to the level at which they can get a pension. They buy a car or a caravan or update their home. They have been doing that for years and with the knowledge and advice of Centrelink.
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    9:33pm
    Paddington - you are COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG !!!!!

    Pensioners and a majority of self funded retirees WILL LOSE THEIR FRANKING CREDITS !!!!!
    Paddington
    7th Nov 2018
    9:40pm
    Lothario
    PENSIONERS AND PARTPENSIONERS WILL NOT LOSE THEIR FRANKING CREDITS.
    Lothario
    7th Nov 2018
    9:41pm
    YES THEY WILL

    STOP LYING !!!!!!!
    Misty
    8th Nov 2018
    1:14am
    Lothario I just Googled, "Will pensioners and part pensioners lose their franking credits under Labor's proposal" and the answer , dated March 29 2018, said "Pensioners and part pensioners would be exempt from the new measures and so retain all their franking credits. They would receive the full pension because their financial assets of $275.000 are deemed to be earning $296 a fortnight.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    6:53am
    And the greedy pensioners like you and Paddington therefore support the policy that will wipe out the lifestyle of struggling self-funded retirees who have paid far more than their share. How disgusting? You get TRIPLE handouts, and you won't defend the rights of people who don't get any government benefits to be taxed fairly on what they earn, and not ripped off with 30% tax on income that shouldn't be taxed.

    It's mind-boggling that anyone could be so selfish!

    Those who will suffer worked hard and sacrificed to achieve a modest level of comfort and security in old age, paying tax and educating families and supporting THEIR oldies at the same time, but you are just so disgustingly greedy that you now want them robbed of their savings and impoverished, just because you THINK they have more than you. (And they probably don't, when EVERYTHING is counted correctly!)

    All I can say is ''Bring it on, and watch what happens. The greedy will get theirs. Pensioners WILL hurt like hell when the economic effects flow on. And anyone with a brain knows Shorten is a hideous liar. There will NOT be any budget saving, because he's continuing to indulge the well off with their tax credits. He's only hitting honest battlers with modest savings and low incomes, and he'll push them onto the pension and make things harder for everyone (not to mention the economic harm from taking capital out of growing companies and reducing spending that stimulates growth)
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    7:38am
    Sadly, Lothario, you are wrong and Paddington is right. Which makes the policy even more cruel and unfair - and economically and socially harmful.

    Of course pensioners WILL suffer greatly, indirectly, when the economic effects are felt.
    Misty
    8th Nov 2018
    8:30am
    Calm down OGR you will do yourself damage the way you are ranting and raving, I know your posts off by heart now, always the same.
    Misty
    8th Nov 2018
    8:32am
    and btw OGR I never said I defended the policy so stop making assumptions about me and my circumstances.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    10:04am
    You certainly haven't opposed it, Misty. And you are always ranting in favour of the proposer.
    Misty
    8th Nov 2018
    10:32am
    I do oppose it OGR so get your facts straight, in fact I have just contacted Chris Bowen's Sydney office and gave them an earful, but you are right about me supporting the Labor Party as I don't agree with the way the Coalition are carrying on, so much infighting and instability there, now the Nationals are .at it too, some not wanting to endorse Barnaby Joyce so who could vote for that lot, I am glad Kerryn Phelps got in in Wentworth, maybe she can bring a bit of common sense to the Parliament, here's hoping anyway.
    Misty
    8th Nov 2018
    10:32am
    I do oppose it OGR so get your facts straight, in fact I have just contacted Chris Bowen's Sydney office and gave them an earful, but you are right about me supporting the Labor Party as I don't agree with the way the Coalition are carrying on, so much infighting and instability there, now the Nationals are .at it too, some not wanting to endorse Barnaby Joyce so who could vote for that lot, I am glad Kerryn Phelps got in in Wentworth, maybe she can bring a bit of common sense to the Parliament, here's hoping anyway.
    Old Geezer
    8th Nov 2018
    12:18pm
    Kerryn Phelps has said she is not supporting Labor's non return of franking credits policy.
    Old Geezer
    8th Nov 2018
    1:15pm
    Paddington pensioners and part pensioners will lose their franking credits when the companies they are invested in stop paying tax.
    Misty
    8th Nov 2018
    3:22pm
    And why would these companies stop paying tax OG ?, please explain.
    Old Geezer
    8th Nov 2018
    4:38pm
    Many companies only pay tax now because their shareholders want fully franked dividends. If their shareholders don't want fully franked dividends why would these companies pay tax to create them? They would just rearrange their businesses and pay little or no tax.
    Retired Knowall
    9th Nov 2018
    8:52am
    OG if you don't stop it you will go blind.
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    2:51pm
    Unfortunately Retired Knowall will proved to be right if people are stupid enough to vote in a Labor government.
    ex PS
    12th Nov 2018
    9:05am
    There is no need for Self Funded retirees to struggle, they will never have to exist on less than the OAP. Once your income drops to a certain level they are eligible for a part pension. I am self funded and if the governments financial mismanagement causes my income to drop, I will not hesitate to take a part pension.
    I don't think governments influence the economy that much, they are generally not that clever. They influence lifestyles by manipulating the way they spend OUR money in order to obtain votes. Vote for those that will do you the least amount of harm, if you vote as a tribe you will be treated as a minion should be.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    13th Nov 2018
    3:37pm
    exPS, income is irrelevant to pension eligibility for asset-tested SFRs. They have two choices - hand all their hard-won saving to others and get ZERO benefit for having sacrificed holidays, restaurant dinners, nice clothes and furniture, etc. OR live on less than the OAP. It's disgraceful that they should be faced with that choice. Why should people have to hand over the savings they accrued by going without? This notion that people who saved are ''lucky'' and should share their ''good fortune'' is such a load of green-eyed, selfish NONSENSE.
    Lothario
    13th Nov 2018
    3:40pm
    "This notion that people who saved are ''lucky'' and should share their ''good fortune'' is such a load of green-eyed, selfish NONSENSE."

    It isnt is your're Bill Shorten and the labor supporters he is winning over with this very strategy
    Misty
    8th Nov 2018
    8:45am
    I thought we had done this subject to death already, nothing has been set in stone so there is still plenty of time to have this proposed policy tweaked.
    geordie
    8th Nov 2018
    8:45am
    Aaaagggghhhh. So make it an even playing field and give everyone at retirement age a pension. Do away with the assets test. Problem solved. The whole welfare system is a mess. Instead of fixing the problem, successive government stick on band aid after band aid eventually losing sight of the problem. No one alive today has not been told, all their lives,to save for their retirement. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but I knew I had to put money away for that rainy day. Shorten wants a socialist system where everyone is equal but some more equal than others. Control the masses. Maybe I should have gone on a few more holidays and bought the V8, the caravan and tinnie. Let someone else worry about money for my retirement.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Nov 2018
    10:03am
    I agree, Geordie. They can't even put the bandaid on the wound. They find a cut in the arm and put the bandage on the knee!
    Cogsen
    8th Nov 2018
    10:52am
    Labour has not done their sum right with their proposal to deny “leftover” Franking Credits refund.
    Assuming these 3 scenarios:
    1. Couples with 10,000 WBC shares receiving dividends ($25,000) inclusive of Frankings ($11,000) of $36000 pay no tax. They lose 100% Frankings if policy in place.
    2. Couples with 60,000 WBC shares receiving dividends ($112,000) inclusive of Frankings ($48,000) of $160,000 pay $35,000 tax. They lose 26.5% Frankings if policy in place.
    3. Couples with 100,000 WBC shares receiving dividends ($188,000) inclusive of Frankings ($80,000) of $36000 pay $75,000 tax. They lose 7.5% Frankings if policy in place.

    Now, although every loses, the biggest losers are those in Scenario 1. So could someone explain how this stupid “double dipping” policy of Labour is going to help the “poorer” self funded retirees??? It will also impact Super funds, Pension budget blowout and whatnots in the financial institutional environment...

    Still want to vote LABOUR in the next election???
    Paddington
    8th Nov 2018
    11:39am
    LABOR
    Old Geezer
    8th Nov 2018
    12:15pm
    This submission on franking credits shows lots of other examples.

    https://asn.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=7bb3777772ad5e61cf370dfc5&id=8399f1ee8a&e=cf4d881274
    Old Geezer
    8th Nov 2018
    12:16pm
    I am voting for Labor. LAST.
    Old Geezer
    8th Nov 2018
    12:20pm
    Cogsen That is why many people don't understand this policy. It makes no sense at all especially from a Labor party.
    Adrianus
    8th Nov 2018
    4:56pm
    Cogsen, You are eluding to an even greater problem existing in 'The Modern Left.' Unlike the old Labor Party which knew where their base was, this new labor is a party made of factions and various interest groups. They have focussed on identity politics, their based has been drawn like screws and nuts to a magnet, each with their own unique mission. One of the very few common threads which brings them together is hatred of the rich. Labor's problem is that they don't have the courage or know how to attack the rich, so they pick an easy target and tell their rusted on idiots that they are attacking the rich. Even some of their followers will have a second thought at the ballot box when they add up their reduction in income. The direct cost of voting for these Marxist economic vandals.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    8:40am
    Cogsen, you are NEARLY right, except everyone DOESN'T lose. High income earners don't lose. They get a full tax credit. The guy with 100,000 shares claims his full franking credit off his tax payable. It's ONLY those with lower incomes who lose, and the less they have, the greater their loss.
    Dave R
    8th Nov 2018
    12:34pm
    The whole issue of franking credits is unique to Australian and New Zealand as this arrangement does not exist anywhere else and it's debatable whether it should exist here. The refund of credits to non-taxpayers which the Howard Liberals introduced takes this dubious franking policy a step too far IMO and like lots of Howard's unsustainable largesse needs to be clawed back. So full marks to Labor for being courageous enough to try. I hope they succeed in this along with removing other unsustainable taxation concessions.
    Old Geezer
    8th Nov 2018
    12:47pm
    So it is OK for a person earning $100,000 to take their family on a cruise with their refund of franking $5000 in franking credits and a person earning $20,000 to have their income reduced to $15,000 so they have a $100 a week less to spend on groceries.

    Sounds to me like you have no idea how franking credits work to me.
    Paddington
    8th Nov 2018
    12:52pm
    Good points! We need to all keep an open mind. People are disappointed because they thought it would be something they could count on, a bit like negative gearing. But is it for the good of future people or do we need to prepare for when we are not here and our descendants inherit this world. Also like the environment, we need to make changes.
    Old Geezer
    8th Nov 2018
    1:06pm
    Paddington another one that is commenting with no idea.
    Old Geezer
    8th Nov 2018
    1:32pm
    If you are trying to stir me up then think again as I think you are nothing but a fool with comments like that.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    8:37am
    People are worried because IT SHOULD BE SOMETHING THEY CAN COUNT ON, Paddington. Nothing to do with descendants. It's about the health of the economy and basic FAIRNESS.

    We ought to be able to count on being tax on our earnings - NOT ON SOME OTHER ENTITY'S INCOME THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH US.

    What will you support next? Taking refunds from PAYE taxpayers, but ONLY if they have low incomes and paid way too much?

    It's EXACTLY the same thing. You are clearly swallowing the ALP's lies hook, line and sinker. The current franking credit policy was GOOD FOR THE NATION and YES IT IS good for the future of the people to retain it.

    Just how do you think crippling self-sufficient retirees and taking investment out of businesses will help the next generation, Paddington? Do you seriously think a society in which half the country relies on welfare is a good thing? Do you think more unemployment is good for society? You are not making any sense on this issue.

    Dave R, please explain how taxing a low income earners at a high rate is more ''sustainable'' than fair tax on their ACTUAL earnings. You have no idea what you are on about. You are supporting giving the rich a huge tax concession but taxing the less affluent at hideously high rates. How is that ''sustainable''?

    I thought ALP voters supported looking after the battlers. What you and Paddington are supporting is taking from strugglers who have low incomes to give heaps more to the fat greedy rich! Oh - AND rewarding tax avoidance, because the clever manipulators will not suffer from loss of franking credits. They will just rearrange their affairs. It's the honest strugglers who CAN'T rearrange their affairs to get around this cruel and damaging policy change (if it happens).

    Franking credit refunds, introduced by the Howard Government, was a stroke of genius that enabled ordinary Australians to be more self-sufficient after their working years, while supporting economic growth and more job opportunities. It's sad that - like all good policies - it is exploited unfairly by a small minority, but you don't fix abuse by demolishing the benefit. You fix abuse by addressing abuse. Franking credits are helping the nation by enabling over $1.4 million Australians to access FAIR taxation that supports healthy investment.
    Cogsen
    8th Nov 2018
    2:00pm
    Is Paddington for real??? You must be one of those rich dudes in the 3rd Scenario to worry about a loss of less than 10% cash refund from frankings to affect your high living standard.
    Old Geezer
    8th Nov 2018
    2:51pm
    Paddington and Dave R are trying to stir me up but are making fools of themselves instead.
    Misty
    8th Nov 2018
    8:16pm
    There are a few fools commenting on here but Paddington and Dave R are not amongst them.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    8:00am
    Paddington and Dave R are not only fools, they are very selfish fools. They are supporting stealing from battlers to give more to the wealthy - and clearly they are supporting it because they are too foolish to understand what they are supporting.

    Paddington/Dave R - would you also support denying income tax refunds to people who had too much tax taken out of their pay packet - but ONLY if they are low income earners?

    It's EXACTLY the same thing!

    And if you think discouraging investing with an expectation of fair taxation is wise. how the HELL do you think people are supposed to fund their own retirement? Or are you foolish enough to think that making everyone equally poor and dependent in their winter years is good for the nation.

    (Misty... gave yourself away here, didn't you? Tried to imply you are not among the greedy pensioners who support Shorten's unfairness, but now you are cheering those who support Shorten's theft.)
    VeryCaringBigBear
    9th Nov 2018
    8:43am
    Only way to beat a Labor government is to buy a house spending everything except what you can have to get the full OAP plus benefits. You then have a tax free investment and get a tax free income from the government. You can then invest in shares and keep the franking credits. Every 10 years when you have spent down what you gave left just down size with only enough left for full OAP. No capital gains, no tax payable and lots of franking credits.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Nov 2018
    8:48am
    Yes, VCB, and THAT is what ALP supporters think would be GOOD FOR THE NATION!
    Mind-boggling how anyone could be dumb enough to think that would be good for the nation's future.
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    2:49pm
    OGR I have heard they are running that idea as part of a series of seminars held on the Gold Coast for those nearing retirement. I'll have to see if I can find out more about them.
    Paddington
    11th Nov 2018
    9:06pm
    Ha Ha so funny! Rich dude, good one!
    Name calling by a handful on here does nothing for your argument. If you abuse, you lose!
    Misty
    12th Nov 2018
    1:00am
    I don't know what gives you that impression OGR, as I have said before I rang Chris Bowen's office to complain about the FC Policy they want to bring in, just because I said Paddington and Dave R are not fools you jump to that ridiculous conclusion.
    Old Geezer
    8th Nov 2018
    7:52pm
    National Seniors Submission

    Labor must drop franking credit policy, seniors urge

    Ordinary older Australians fear Labor’s scrapping of franking credit refunds will force them onto the Age Pension and penalise them for saving for retirement, according to leading independent advocacy group National Seniors Australia.
    National Seniors is urging the federal Opposition to scrap the policy, which its members have said betray retirees’ core values of self-reliance and self-sufficiency.
    In its submission to the federal Parliamentary Inquiry into the Implications of Removing Refundable Franking Credits released yesterday, National Seniors said the Labor policy was viewed by its members as a means of ‘milking’ self-funded retirees as a revenue source.
    Chief Advocate Ian Henschke said the submission expressed the views of National Seniors members who responded to a call out on the franking credit refund issue.
    “Because the majority of self-funded retirees own shares, hundreds of thousands of people will be affected by this proposed policy,” Mr Henschke said. “The policy will hurt ordinary Australians, and not just the wealthiest as Labor claims.
    “Members told us the proposal would financially hit those who had worked and saved hard under the existing tax rules, which have been in place since 2000, to self-fund their retirement.
    “Unlike Labor’s negative gearing policy, there are no plans to grandfather this change. This means seniors who, in good faith, planned for their retirement under existing rules will not be spared. It also discriminates against self-funded retirees and in favour of those in industry superannuation funds.”
    Mr Henschke said input received from National Seniors members showed older Australians were sick of constant changes to retirement and superannuation policy. One member wrote:
    “In light of your policy on imputation credits, what do you suggest I should do? Should I sell my share portfolio, draw down my SMSF and spend up big on a more expensive home, a luxury car and expensive holidays? In the process there is every likelihood I would become eligible for an age pension and the benefits that come with it. I … have voted Labor for most of my life. If you proceed with this draconian policy, you can be assured I shan’t be voting Labor at the next election and shall preference Labor candidates behind all others.”
    Mr Henschke said National Seniors was not opposed to fair and considered reform to the retirement income system.
    “However, the proposed Labor changes will severely impact lower income self-funded retirees who have worked hard and planned their retirement within the prevailing rules,” he said.
    “This proposal will damage the retirement funding and hopes of ordinary older people. Australians don’t support policies that rob seniors of their economic independence or that unfairly discriminate. It destroys faith, not just in the superannuation system but in the political system itself,” Mr Henschke said.
    National Seniors’ franking credit submission can be found at here. The first hearing of the parliamentary enquiry will be in Sydney on 20 November.

    https://nationalseniors.com.au/uploads/NSA-Submission-franking-credits-inquiry-Nov-2018-Final.pdf
    Lothario
    8th Nov 2018
    8:44pm
    Those with shares offering franked dividends should hold on for a bumper dividend and share buyback period should labor win

    Companies will use their franking account balances to fund share buybacks and make special dividends declarations to empty their franking balances

    Huge payouts and share buyback means a huge spike in share price

    Cash it up and then give Shorten the finger by moving your assets offshore
    Misty
    8th Nov 2018
    8:51pm
    That won't help anyone with shares Lothario, assets moved offshore are going to be a target for the govt in the future, along with companies who pay little or no tax.
    Old Geezer
    8th Nov 2018
    8:51pm
    BHP has already launched one.
    Lothario
    8th Nov 2018
    8:54pm
    Yes Old Geezer

    RIO has one in the pipeline as well

    Misty - if you say so. I'm not going to bother explaining, Life's too short and in any case it wont do you any good
    VeryCaringBigBear
    9th Nov 2018
    8:46am
    Got some BHP and RIO so I'll throw a few in the buybacks and when they fall back in price I'll buy them back. Should make enough for another holiday somewhere tax free.
    Adrianus
    9th Nov 2018
    9:14am
    Kinda reminds me of the Labor mining tax which not only didn't raise any tax but had a real negative impact.
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2018
    2:47pm
    I agree this franking credit proposal will do the same ie have a big negative impact but raise vey little extra revenue if any.
    ex PS
    12th Nov 2018
    8:53am
    Maybe it will lose votes, it doesn't really matter, it may also gain votes, as long as you gain more than you lose you will come out ahead.
    Politics is a numbers game, only numbers matter.
    Take $200.00 a year of voters for a couple of years, then give them back half the money you took off them at voting time and buy their votes with their own money. A strategy worthy of Tom Sawyer. You can fool some people every time.
    Some of my income is derived from Franking Credits, if that avenue closes I will adjust my strategy accordingly, these things happen, there are never any guarantees.
    Misty
    12th Nov 2018
    9:20am
    Well according to the latest Newspoll it hasn't harmed the Labor Party but we will see, closer to the election, if Labor tweaks this FC Policy so it doesn't affect small investors,as it seems to at the moment if it is not changed.
    Old Geezer
    12th Nov 2018
    1:09pm
    Misty there is only one pol that matters and I for one have no faith at all in those opinion polls. I give a different answer each week when they ring me.
    wombat
    12th Nov 2018
    12:52pm
    Can someone clarify for me Mr Shorten's policy.
    Currently if I receive $7000 cash dividend with a $3000 franking credit my total income per the ATO & Centrelink is $10,000. If I am not entitled to a refund of my franking credit does my income still stay at $10,000 or does it drop to $7000 for the ATO & Centrelink?
    Old Geezer
    12th Nov 2018
    1:08pm
    Good question and no one knows the answer on that one yet.


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