11th Sep 2014
Older women the poorest
Older women the poorest

With an estimated 533,000 women over 65 living under the poverty line, Australia is facing a crisis, but little is being done to address the issue.

The Women’s Property Initiative (WPI) did a presentation in 2012 at a national housing convention, which focused on the need for affordable housing. At this point it was only an emerging issue and while more research is being done, funding isn’t forthcoming in any great amount. Chief executive officer of the WPI, Jeanette Large, has seen many women, most of them single and needing help, come through the doors of the organisation.

"Many women assume they will have family and support in their later years, but many people don't have that," Large says. "Some are divorced, have been widowed or, for whatever reason, have decided to be single."

In 2013, the Lord Mayor’s Charitable Foundation (LMCF) in Melbourne, which funded the WPI, launched a project to focus on the poverty being faced by many Australians, but in particular, older women. A survey was undertaken, which was split into eight family categories; young couples with children, young couples, single parents, young single men, young single women, elderly couples, elderly single men and elderly single women and this followed how long each group lived in poverty. The elderly groups accounted for 82 per cent of those who lived in abject poverty. Elderly single men living in abject poverty totalled 29.5 per cent, but nearly 36 per cent of elderly single women lived in the same conditions. Catherine Brown, CEO of the foundation did the calculations on a national level, "That's 533,000 older women who are living below the poverty line nationally. I personally find that very disturbing," she said.

It’s her belief that if the government invested money in affordable housing, which would enable NGOs to build more affordable housing and community land trusts, that this would address the main issue and enable women to escape such abject poverty and get back into the workforce.

As Catherine Brown says, "Older women are a fantastic resource, [but] they're a voiceless group. Because they're so dignified and wanting to help themselves, it's hard for them to admit they need extra help.”

Read more at TheAge.com.au

Opinion: It’s hardly surprising

While I read the above report with a sinking heart, it doesn’t really surprise me that older women in poverty are being overlooked, but that doesn’t mean something shouldn’t be done about it, and quickly.

As with many Australians who have retired or are approaching retirement, the introduction of the compulsory superannuation guarantee by Paul Keating came a little too late to make any real difference to their retirement nest egg. And while superannuation schemes were available prior to then, for the average wage earner with a family to feed and a mortgage to pay, it certainly wouldn’t have been seen as a necessity.

But for women the superannuation story is even direr, with part-time work, time out of the workforce to raise children and perhaps elderly parents and a lower earning potential meaning that when compared to male counterparts, their retirement nest egg is certainly lacking. An assessment on 2011-12 super balances at retirement by the Association of Superfunds of Australia Limited (ASFA) shows that women have an average balance of $105,000, compared men, whose average balance is some $92,000 higher.

Ultimately, what this means is that more people, but particularly women, will need to rely on an Age Pension in retirement and will become that ‘burden’ which is commonly spoken of when discussing our recent ‘tough but necessary’ budget. Yet the simple means by which to empower and assist people to fund their own retirement, the superannuation guarantee, is being stifled.

The need to increase the superannuation guarantee has never been greater and whilst on the balance sheet the halt to the increase from the current 9.5 per cent to the agreed necessary level of 12 per cent may appear as a saving, the effect on the funding of the Age Pension in years to come will be harsh. Cue more cries of the ‘burden’ of caring for an ageing population. Hindsight may indeed be a wonderful thing, but foresight can be just as powerful when harnessed correctly.

Do you think older women are amongst the poorest in society? If so, is superannuation the best way to end this poverty for future generations? Or should more money be put into funding Age Pensions and superannuation be for those who can afford it?





    COMMENTS

    To make a comment, please register or login
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    10:26am
    Debbie: Respectfully, this is sounding like another womens' lament article. As though it is not enough that men have to listen to the ongoing airing of womens' health issues whilst men matter not now we are back on the 'women are financial victims' storyline.
    A few comments. I grew up in an era where on divorce the woman was awarded the family home if she had children. The couple next to me split and the man went to live in a caravan at the back of his parent's home whilst the woman married a man with his own house...so ended up with two. Unfair. Women today are entitled to HALF of all family assets, including the husband's superannuation...and even including assets which were inherited by the husband.
    As far as superannuation is concerned this always was a dud sold to the public as a magic bullet whilst never mentioning one world which effectively destroys the concept: inflation. The million dollar retirement was never going to be that.
    Sorry about my position but this is a lament. Men also do it tough, are normally removed from their children on divorce and are thrown onto the scrapheap of life with scant acknowledgement from the female controlled media, which cares only about its own agenda.
    Adrianus
    15th Sep 2014
    11:20am
    mick, I have to disagree with you on one point. "Superannuation was always a dud."
    Superannuation has been an enormous success, when you consider that it helped to change the mentality of Australians. We needed to become a nation of savers. We needed to become long term thinkers with respect to wealth creation. This cause would have been driven faster, had employees been forced to contribute. But sadly there will always be people who feel hard done by because of what others have. Surprisingly, these are the very same people who say "money can't buy happiness."
    heyyou
    15th Sep 2014
    11:42am
    Mick, agree with your post, I have six adult children two divorced, one on the verge of divorce and desperately trying to save his marriage.
    Of the two divorced one male one female, (do not wish to go into the details) the male lost his $800000 dollar house to his partner who now built her own large house, has a new guy, new car, and is doing very nicely thank you. He now lives in a very small apartment, no savings, small amount of super, no transport, paying child maintenance and very poor future.
    The divorced daughter took her male partner for all she could get, left him broke and living with his parents even though it was all her fault for separating.
    These people were just living with their partners, not married, yet they lost everything and in both cases the women walked away financially secure.
    This is by no means the only cases I have known so I to am sick of hearing how bad women are treated in the female journalist media, also in my wide circle of people I do not know of any retired men who have $190000 in a bank account and are on the old age pension.
    aly_rob60
    15th Sep 2014
    11:50am
    I beg to differ on one point, Mick. My mother had to sell the family home a few years after my father passed away as she could not afford to continue to pay the bills and council rates. This was despite going back to work full time.

    She "downsized" to a 2 bedroom unit in a nearby suburb and that was OK for a while, but then she could no longer work, due to health issues. She "hung in there" for a couple more years but lamented at her bank balance rapidly disappearing whilst trying to survive on a Widow's pension. She had merely swapped more expensive council rates for slightly smaller ones and the utility bills continued to rise, despite getting a concession.

    When she was diagnosed with Ovarian Cancer, she knew that she had no option but to sell the unit, rent and get rental assistance and hope that she had enough money left to drive her car to doctor and specialist appointments and pay for those, live a little whilst she had time to enjoy her grandchildren and leave some money for my brother and I to pay for her "final expenses".

    I can see how easy it is to lose everything that you and your partner work for. I have seen it with my parents and now that my hubby and I are unemployed and still too young to "retire" I am seeing it all over again.

    I agree with you TOTALLY that Superannuation is a dud. We will never have enough to live on when the Govt finally allows us access to it. There will probably be no such thing as an Aged Pension either, so we will have no option to sell our home and downsize too in the future.

    As far as "saving" goes.....well we could whilst we were employed! I don't know where some people get the idea that living on a Govt allowance means you are living the life of Riley!
    Anonymous
    15th Sep 2014
    2:24pm
    Interesting variety of views on the divorce industry there.... very revealing if you ask me. My long-stated view is this :- the one who wishes to 'move on' does so by moving out of the family home and leaving the family intact, and becomes the one who provides CS and gets visiting rights. Simple enough, and would cut back on the 'walk in walk out family' and throwaway marriage industries that so favour women in MOST cases.

    As for superannuation - unless you have a lot of income it is a rort and a job creation program for super funds, as well as a nice little earner for their 'ceo's who invariably turn out to be the Usual Suspects - cronies etc of those who came up with the idea and who just happened to spot a nice business opportunity that just fell into their lap. Same with all privatisation ventures.

    What is needed is a controlled superannuation scheme that actually does not cost an arm and a leg for the ordinary user.
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    8:19pm
    Grappler: The intention of my post was not to start the next gender war but rather to put the issue into context. Maybe I am a bit irritable that the gentler sex seems to be having a bet each way. But there are genuine stories which go either way, so maybe the debate will go on for millenia. WHo Knows.
    Your sentiments on superannuation are fairly spot on. A great concept for rich Australians who have a heap of excess money which they can squirrel away from the tax system only to access when they retire. Thank you very much. And the key word is 'much'. Average citizens are not in th esame game. Despite Tony Abbott's jibe to 'put more in' when the Mining Tax was repealed the reality is that WORKING PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE SPARE CASH TO PUT INTO SUPER. So they miss out on the taxation gifts which the rich have availoable to them. Superannuation is a rorot for the rich because at the end of the day the rich are in a position to take advantage of the free money whilst average citizens are forcrd to pay tax at the marginal tax rate....and be done over. Is it any surprise that at retirement they have no superannuation savings of any value.
    Oliva
    16th Sep 2014
    3:18pm
    Heyyou Isn't the divorce business awful! Here again Politicians are to blame. The Centrelink cash-cow is totally female friendly. The men/fathers are hounded and stripped of all their assets and treated like scum and or pedophiles. Centrelink is the BIG Number one reason why marriages/partnerships break up more than half the time. Numerous social problems are now common as a result, and I was sad to see that at my grandkids school parent interviews are offered to Mums and Dads separately.?? Lest bust up those families even more!!!! Who needs families!!!!

    And now we find that the system has problems with viability. HaHa of course...the discarded husbands have been ripped off and have nothing left....now the tax-payer has to put in more money.
    Jillianr
    15th Sep 2014
    10:46am
    I agree with this article there should be affordable housing for anyone who need it not just elderly there are too many people on the streets with housing prices only affordable by overseas investors
    Golden Oldie
    15th Sep 2014
    1:20pm
    I agree, 36% of women, 29.5% of men, all over 65 equals 65.5% of the elderly population living below the poverty line is a disgrace. Add to this the younger population who cannot afford to buy a property, and it highlights a major problem for affordable housing. I applied for public housing in 1977, and was told there was a 5 year waiting list for Melbourne. It is much worse now. Yet noone in government seems to think that something should be done about this.
    Sceptic
    15th Sep 2014
    1:38pm
    I think that your maths needs a little work Golden Oldie. 29.5 out of a hundred men, plus 36 out of a hundred women is 65.5 people out of 200, or 32.75% of the elderly population, not 65.5%.
    FrankC
    15th Sep 2014
    4:00pm
    Sceptic, you're the one that needs a maths lesson.. 65.5% is still, in this day and age, under 100%. God, how can people be so stupid with regard to mathematics, or are you from America ?
    Kato
    15th Sep 2014
    4:21pm
    Well said Frank.
    Sceptic
    15th Sep 2014
    4:24pm
    Sorry Frank , but maybe you should ask a 10 year old child, they will put you right. It is obvious that you do not understand percentages. Per = out of, cent = 100. Each of the numbers are out of 100, so to add the 29.5 and the 36 together you have to add the 100s together to make 200. So once again it is better to say nothing and let people think you are stupid than to open your mouth and prove it. BTW, I am a maths professor. Consider this, with your reasoning and three groups of say 29.5% 36% and say 42% the total in poverty would be, according to your reasoning, 107.5%. Get it?
    Sceptic
    15th Sep 2014
    4:26pm
    So Kato, you were in the same class as Frank were you.
    Kato
    15th Sep 2014
    4:39pm
    No sceptic it is obvious that you are educated. But being a smartass and putting people down belittles that degree you have in mathematics. Intelligence im sure you will agree does not mathematically equate to an all-round and balanced member of society .
    Kato
    15th Sep 2014
    4:45pm
    Necessarily equate.
    Anonymous
    15th Sep 2014
    5:09pm
    Sceptic is right.... a percentage of one lot plus a percentage of another lot is divided by two lots....

    If I have 10% red balls and 10% white ones out of two sets of 100, I have overall 10% white AND red balls, or 20 out of 200.
    Sceptic
    15th Sep 2014
    5:34pm
    Okay Kato. A knee jerk reaction to the ignorant and insulting response from Frank.
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    8:31pm
    This might come as a surprise but Sceptic is correct. You have to understand WHAT the word 'percentage' is referring to. Stating that 36% of women are living below the poverty line does mean that 36 in every 100 WOMEN are in this group. Likewise, 29.5% of men means that 29.5 MEN out of every 100 (1 midget???) is in the group.
    Now when you want to talk about what percentage of PEOPLE are in the group do do have to add the percentages: 36 + 29.5 = 65.5 ...that is 65.5 out of every 200 now. So to get this number back into a percentage you effectively have to halve it. 65.5 / 2 = 32.75 .... out of 100 now. So the percentage of older folk is 32.75%.
    Please, no arguments guys. This is correct.
    Maths lesson over. Where do I send the bill?
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    8:35pm
    To the Senate ?
    Adrianus
    15th Sep 2014
    8:43pm
    I wish to point out that maths is also one of my strong points and Sceptic was correct on both counts Kato and Frank.
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    8:48pm
    Yep!! The Angle of the Hypotamus is equal to the Square of the Sum of the other two Whatamacallits !!
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    8:57pm
    Well that's something like what My 8 year old Daughter told me 45 years ago ??
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    10:19pm
    You reckoned you lived under a brodhe particolor.
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    10:43pm
    It was open to Interpretation ??
    Kato
    16th Sep 2014
    10:23am
    Frank - which one am I corresponding with. I am pleased that math is one of your strong points. But can you explain where I said any one was wrong. Just pointing out that manners are one of the social skills sadly lacking these days. Of which many of the respondents on this blog complain about Including myself.
    Kato
    16th Sep 2014
    10:57am
    Sceptic - Ill give you 100% for that response.no puns Intended.
    Adrianus
    16th Sep 2014
    12:53pm
    Well particolor looks like they will be moving some of your neighbours on. That's good news.
    Adrianus
    16th Sep 2014
    1:10pm
    Kato, I'm just saying, as you were, that Sceptic was correct to point out a math error and was equally within his right to respond as he did to the name calling from the other Frank (with your approval, I might add.) It reminded me of a funny time when our state manager was looking at group performance results on a national level. He made a statement that puzzled most of us in the group of 25. "There should be more of us in the top 10!" he shouted. To which one of us replied, "Realistically how many of us would you like to see in the top 10?" In his excitement he had momentarily forgotten that the top 10 performers were sitting in front of him.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2014
    3:21pm
    Frank.. It looks a lot like they have moved them all on ?? But I wont know for a Couple of Weeks as it takes a while for Housing to clean up their Wrecked Units !!.
    And their friends all have Keys !! They come and go and Camp the Night at Will !!.
    You don't really know until the Repair Men come and Change all the Locks !!??..
    But it is a little bit peaceful here now ??
    Oliva
    16th Sep 2014
    3:29pm
    Jillianr I agree with you. Affordable Housing for everyone. What's wrong with it is that people think that a designer home with 4 bedrooms ensuite and double garage should be affordable housing. Obviously it's not. There are solutions to the affordability problem but it needs for Governments to be more broad-minded about what constitutes "housing". Any sort of building going to waste can be modified into an affordable habitable building but Governments are too lazy to look outside the square.
    Kato
    16th Sep 2014
    4:28pm
    I see your point Frank.must read the whole text next time before Answering .
    buby
    16th Sep 2014
    8:33pm
    i absolutely agree with you Oliva, the government does not look outside the square they are stiff and stuck in their old ways.
    Women usually end up paying the bills while the most men drink up any spare money,needed to pay the bills. So the wife can have savings. She usually the one to buy the food to make sure the children don't go without. Often Dad don't give a bugger. I for one, didn't get half of anything worth that was left over, i didn't get half his super either. I struggled to get a decent job. and by the time i did, i had a stroke>its harder for women. Men are cunning, and can be quiet abusive!
    gillham
    17th Sep 2014
    7:20am
    Buby you are a clown. But why would I be surprised what women say about men.
    Oliva
    17th Sep 2014
    9:53am
    Yeah folks. Takes two to tango. BUT when it comes to the divorce situations I think women have a huge advantage because they rally their troops early and Govt and Centrelink by their policies are firmly on their side. Centrelink is in the business of breaking up families and ruining the lives of discarded fathers and husbands.They are very very good at it.
    buby
    20th Sep 2014
    12:11pm
    and you gillham are not a realistic, obviously living in a dream world. (a misogynist) NO doubt!
    maczee
    15th Sep 2014
    11:01am
    The system is unfair, solicitors and courts are beyond most peoples means, no such thing as justice
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    8:39pm
    Just Ice !! And it melted long ago in the Australian Sun !!
    Kato
    16th Sep 2014
    1:19am
    Or in someone's drink.
    Anonymous
    17th Sep 2014
    7:17am
    Or as an Aboriginal guy said to me once :- 'Just Us!"
    Oliva
    17th Sep 2014
    10:13am
    For 80% of people appearing in day to day Court Cases justice comes in the form of "Legal Aid". I learned that when I was doing Jury Service. "Legal Aid' costs the tax payer a fortune, so now it's harder to get.
    justme
    15th Sep 2014
    11:05am
    This is a more complex issue that "something must be done".
    The more costs that are put on business the less competitive Australia becomes.
    As a result unemployment rises. There are fewer and fewer supporting more and more.
    Government assistance can only be at the basic level. Who will volunteer to pay more tax to fund new schemes. This is relevant to many government policies. Like I said very complex.
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    8:34pm
    Be careful passing on the rhetoric. Business has been doing very nicely for the last couple of decades and average people have shown extreme restraint. But you know the game from employers: "we'll go broke" and "we'll have to lay off staff" and "cut hours". All whilst the [ay packets of those at the top keep growing like ther is not tomorrow. Its a scam and average Australians are being had.
    Oliva
    16th Sep 2014
    3:37pm
    True Mick. The bosses keep screwing the workers and boosting their own profits and perks. And why? Because they can.
    buby
    16th Sep 2014
    8:36pm
    there will be no extra monies to fund more schemes, probably cause its all been put into the pollies pockets. They certainly don't do without anything?
    Simo
    15th Sep 2014
    11:10am
    The Aging population problem will not go away just by taking money off the aged person in this country, we need to get our country producing more and Importing Less, and tax the wealthy more, I would think an increase in the income TEST should apply,and close all the loopholes in the present TAX SYSTEM, . I bet Tony Abbott & Joe Hockey know all the Loop holes to minimise their TAX contribution to this country, and the All the Big Mining Companies and all Large Companies do not pay their fair share of TAXATION so fix this up you mugs in Parliment adnwe will be able to support our Aging People.
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    7:13pm
    Reducing Aged Pensioners Pensions Causes Sickness ! Both Mental and Physically ! What costs More ? A Bag of Groceries OR a Trip in the Ambulance to Hospital ??
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    9:20pm
    Close taxation loopholes? Import less? Get big business to pay more tax? Good luck Simo.
    Loopholes are well understood and never fixed until there is too much scrutiny. Closing down business in this country is the flavour of the month and will continue until the country is stuffed and no a large part of the nation is unemployed. And getting big business to pay more tax....1.5% tax deduction in the budget + Carbon Tax repeal (bonanza!!) and then the Mining Tax (another bonanza).
    This is Australia and the system has no interest in average Australians who are more like collateral damage: needed to create a market and tax only!!
    aly_rob60
    16th Sep 2014
    10:21am
    That is EXACTLY how we see it, Mick! This country is stuffed, well and truly.
    Cheryl
    15th Sep 2014
    11:17am
    I'm one of these women, my husband died over 10 years ago and after raising 3 sons returned to the work force for a short period until retirement age when I was made redundant. I managed to save around $80,000 in superannuation and now live on a full age pension, but I am one of the lucky ones who owned a house, which I have downsized to a unit. This government and some of the comments on this website makes me feel like I am a burden to the community. Its not all about divorce, stuff happens in life, little less judgement would be helpful to people in need. I try to to give back with volunteer work and helping with grandchildren.
    Happy cyclist
    15th Sep 2014
    12:04pm
    You're right Cheryl -- stuff happens in life. I am horrified at some of the comments above and below from people who extrapolate their own experiences onto the population as a whole. As you say, less judgement would be very helpful. There seems to be a lot of angry, dare I say nasty people commenting today. There but for the grace of God etc etc.
    Anonymous
    15th Sep 2014
    2:38pm
    You managed to save $80,000 in super by returning to the workforce for a 'short time'? What are you - a politician? You must be on one of those secret jobs that pay heaps for nothing.

    Ten years (less) at 9% of income - you'd have to put away nearly $10k a year to cover costs anyway..... $200 a week... good work if you can get it, but many survive still on $700 pre-tax. How do they get to save $200 a week like that and pay their way?

    No overheads, insurance money on the old man... what is your secret?
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    8:44pm
    Maybe forgot to mention the 70,000 Buck Powerball win ??
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    9:23pm
    Well done Cheryl.
    aly_rob60
    16th Sep 2014
    10:19am
    Cheryl, your scenario sounds a lot like my mother's. When you lose your partner, the bills don't stop coming and you have no one to help you pay them.
    Downsizing works for a while until the money begins to run out again, due to our greedy councils, governments and utility providers who do NOT give value for the $$$$$$ that we hand over!
    Hasbeen
    15th Sep 2014
    11:38am
    What a sexist rant.

    Obviously done by some feminist academic, with nothing to do, wanting a research grant, & then picked up here.

    It is this type of crap that gets men's backs up, & is thus totally counterproductive to the well being of all.

    This is just another story oh women being the squeaking wheel, drowning out all else, to grab most of the funding.

    I wonder when we might see a piece lamenting all the money thrown at breast cancer, & demanding equal funding for prostate cancer, taken from the same bucket of money . I'll not hold my breath, equality only works one way, & definitely not equally, with feminists.
    Travellersjoy
    16th Sep 2014
    12:37pm
    Ignorance seems to be infinite, and so is bias.

    Enjoy your ulcers.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2014
    4:10pm
    Axle Grease Needed ??
    Oliva
    17th Sep 2014
    9:59am
    True and women are more politically active. Men are too busy toiling at some job they may hate to put food on the table. Women scheme a lot. Haha
    Paul
    15th Sep 2014
    12:21pm
    Well said Frank! You are totally right that men are ignored whilst womens issues are well canvassed.
    Whatever happened to equality of the sexes?
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    7:16pm
    Someone Dumped a House on the Woman's side of the Scales ?
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    9:24pm
    Don't give frank my thunder Paul. Chuckle.....
    Adrianus
    16th Sep 2014
    1:13pm
    The only praise I get and you have to be miserly?
    Fair Dinkum
    15th Sep 2014
    12:23pm
    Mick totally agree with you my son is presently going through separation and though they have been married for less than 5 years and she is not an Australian citizen the law apparently says she is entitled to half of all his assets. a couple of old cars tools and furniture plus his super the house is fully mortgaged so no money left if sold but she still gets half of the capital gain in the property since he bought it when they got married nearly 5 years ago. He has no money so has to increase the mortgage to pay her out. She bought nothing into the marriage except violence . We have 2 beautiful grand children ( the only good thing this woman produced) who my son pays maintenance for and is happy to do so but unfortunately they are being pshyological damaged by this woman who they live with for most of the time . the laws an ass and should be changed to access each case on it merits instead of all ways being in favour of the woman. and like you said the media ect have a lot to answer for .
    Happy cyclist
    15th Sep 2014
    1:10pm
    Gee, I'd love to hear her side of the story -- bet its REALLY different.
    Anonymous
    15th Sep 2014
    3:21pm
    You mean the gramma/grampa looking on and seeing things as they are on the results etc is not a good rendering of fact?

    It is this kind of thing that leads to the current breakdown in any chance of any long-lasting relationship for many and steers many away from any commitment - and this plays nicely into the hands of those who have the upper hand, since it means that most people, surviving on a single income, will simply never be a viable socio-economic unit in an environment that demands dual income or its equivalent.

    Defeats the whole purpose of everything, neh? Just continues the escalating social and economic divides in this country - that will lead it to ruin.
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    9:25pm
    I understand your pain Fair Dinkum. It is hard.
    Oliva
    16th Sep 2014
    3:45pm
    If I was a Politician... fixing this horrible stuff would be my main mission. Strong families are the basis of a strong community...and a strong country. This stuff makes me so unhappy.
    Anonymous
    17th Sep 2014
    7:24am
    Oliva - many theorists will tell you that the first aim of any controlling ultrasocialist (what I call Socio-fascist) government is the destruction of family, since it is the mainstay of our society, and removes from that State the opportunity to treat everyone individually as a vassal of the state. Family as a social entity stands in the way of that philosophy since it provides a power and values base from which the individual will say NO and receive support in doing so.

    It's a truly big and very real issue at this time, and gives an insight into one possible reason for the destruction of our society over the past 30+ years (since the advent of virulent feminism, BTW, and the 'equalisation' of women etc - no such thing as coincidence).
    buby
    20th Sep 2014
    12:13pm
    and i'll bet your religious Oliva, this has nothing to do with a community. NO community is that good!
    buby
    20th Sep 2014
    12:13pm
    and i'll bet your religious Oliva, this has nothing to do with a community. NO community is that good!
    talofa
    15th Sep 2014
    12:38pm
    I am 75years old (but don't look it...ha...ah) & I live on the centrelink pension/some e.u.pension plus a small super & my philosophy is 'as long as I can give the occasional small
    present to someone I feel I live well. I have absolutely no relative having backpacked a lot
    around the world instead of breeding & mortgages ( I own my own unit in Adelaide) so
    it's how you MANAGE your income ...not how much it is ...talofa
    Kathleen
    15th Sep 2014
    6:14pm
    That is so true talofa! We are doing okay on the pension so far. It is less than we had when either of us or both worked. I am budgeting on a weekly basis. We had lots of practice in the first 20 years of our marriage on one income and five children. I have gone back to that way of life. I am happy too to be able to buy gifts. Thankfully, we do own our own home which seems to account for the fact that we can manage.
    Polly Esther
    15th Sep 2014
    1:03pm
    Never fear, I bet Debbie is a fair minded person and I feel sure she will soon write an article about the number of over 65 men living under the poverty line. Just to even things up, oh and don't worry, they are out there. Looking forward to it.
    RoyW
    15th Sep 2014
    1:08pm
    "The need to increase the superannuation guarantee has never been greater and whilst on the balance sheet the halt to the increase from the current 9.5 per cent to the agreed necessary level of 12 per cent may appear as a saving, the effect on the funding of the Age Pension in years to come will be harsh."

    Everyone seem to make this mistake. All contributions all come from the employee ultimately. Even if the so-called employer levy was increased it would be soon offset by reduced salary increases. So you should be advising anyone (women & men) not to grizzle for a bigger handout but to contribute more from their salary if they are unhappy about the super guarantee level
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    9:28pm
    And that is where voters did not understand who they were putting into office. Australians were promised a 12% superannuation guarantee a long time ago and it was taken with one swift repeal of the Mining Tax....for the benefit of the mega rich miners. Does that make us all feel good? I feel an election coming soooooon.
    MissTottie
    15th Sep 2014
    1:09pm
    I am one of the senior women with almost no money from a broken marriage - I got just $8000 after 40 years of marriage, and had to set myself up and of course I am too old to get a job apparently. I see the need for better housing for single women. I currently try to survive on an Aged pension, and pay $300 a week rent (I know, with rent assistance). Queensland seems to have the most expensive housing options for seniors. I have friends in WA and SA who have housing for less than half of what I pay. Life is tough. Housing commission seems to think that single senior women can live in little more than a large box. I think it is an issue worth raising. Many of the senior women I know work hard at community organisations. Retired blokes seem to have the money to get to the TAB, pub and pokie machines.
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    2:15pm
    I've been waiting for another PUB TAB and POKIE Person !!.. I thought that was Reserved for the Resident Clown Town Contributors on this site ??
    btony
    15th Sep 2014
    3:57pm
    And Miss Tottie Retired women seem to have the money to go to Bingo ..... a lot
    Kato
    15th Sep 2014
    4:30pm
    miss tottie what a load of bunkum.The retirement village where I live has a weekly bus to burswood. And guess who most of the passengers are Women. From what Im told there are buss trips organised by the casino for A lot of retirement villages .they have cheap meals so the slot machines can be given preference.
    Anonymous
    15th Sep 2014
    5:00pm
    Guys, guys - it does happen and some miss out in settlements etc for any number of reasons. What Kato says is true, though.

    Housing commission thinks men are more comfortable under the bridge... women get priority in housing and assistance.
    KSS
    15th Sep 2014
    5:50pm
    "Housing commission seems to think that single senior women can live in little more than a large box".

    Pretty sure it would be the same for single senior men too! Nothing special about being a senior single woman that should demand more space.
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    9:31pm
    It appears that some details are missing MissTottie. Does not sound legit unless your hubby was penniless. And there are options to renting in the retail market.
    Adrianus
    17th Sep 2014
    6:55am
    mick, Miss Tottie could be a ALP troll?
    particolor
    17th Sep 2014
    8:39am
    I don't know about an ALP Troll !! But Tell Her that Women and Men Get the Same Pension !!!
    KSS
    15th Sep 2014
    1:14pm
    I have to agree with the men here up to a point. Not all divorced/separated fathers are dead-beat-Dads. Most want to and do support their children. I have issues with the Mothers who take advantage of that and they are often supported by the courts to do so.

    Having said that, women in the past lived a different life at a different time. Many never worked, some worked part time, some had long breaks from work for child rearing which was seen as almost exclusively 'women's work'. These women, had they married, had expectations that their husband would take care of them in their old age and for many that was/is the case. For some it didn't work out that way. Another fact is that women live longer than men, so any money they do have must last longer. Either way, this older group of women did not have the financial opportunities that exist today. But this is not exclusively a female issue. There are many men who are equally poor.

    Today, women must take responsibility for their own financial futures. They cannot be demanding equality and independence on the one hand and expect men to financially support them on the other.That means contributing to their own retirement funds. The cost of baby making must include superannuation payments as well as cots and disposable nappies and that needs to be shared between both parents. Having said that, women are still paid less than men (about 17% less) so will need to work harder to save. But save they must.
    Anonymous
    15th Sep 2014
    2:14pm
    The majority by a long shot of the homeless are men, and of those living rough it is almost 100%. Is this because men are useless bludgers? No - we live in a society that has spent 30+ years bringing men down so as to raise women up - never a more stupid and failed socialist experiment in history. What we have instead of 'equality' is a massive and increasing and widening number of social and economic divides, and quite, frankly, the result is a country in chaos and despair for the many.
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    9:33pm
    You make a strong case grappler.
    Anonymous
    17th Sep 2014
    7:27am
    I thank you, suh. I publish on my blurb site... tongue in cheek to some degree with the name, but not the issues.... no laughing matter:-

    https://sites.google.com/site/grappleruniversitypublications/home/department-of-irreverent-revolutionary-thought-dirt/money-divides
    tikiroo
    15th Sep 2014
    1:33pm
    Maybe I am missing something, but I thought Female Age Pension was same amount as Male Age Pension ?
    My "Over 55" rental accommodation charges same weekly rent for Females and Males .
    I am frugal, but not to point of being ridiculous, [ No gambling, No smoking, No drinking, seldom eat-out], but I manage a short overseas trip every few months - yes my choice of where my Pension goes.
    So I would find it interesting to know what these hard-done-by women spend their money on ?
    Frank
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    2:20pm
    Bra Burning I think ??
    Oars
    15th Sep 2014
    8:18pm
    Particolor - you are obviously not at the retiree age yet. Wait till that time comes and see if your trite remarks are still as cold as they are now. These older women had nothing like the advantages as you younger ones have have now, so feel for them.
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    8:55pm
    I'm nearly 70 Oars, I never grew up !!.. Life's too Short to be Sad all the time !..
    Just thought Old Germaine Should get a Mention ??
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    9:37pm
    As one poster said above the secret is OWNING YOUR OWN HOUSE. I fully agree.
    This is not an easy scenario for some people and the discipline required is too difficult for some who prefer to live it up now. Some people just will not live a frugal life to achieve a better retirement and nothing one can say is going to change this tikiroo.

    15th Sep 2014
    2:06pm
    Beware of freaks bearing grift - and statistics.

    a. There are MORE older women than men - men die younger generally.
    b. Women more often than men 'inherit' the family home and any assets, including superannuation than men do. In 'marital relationships' (I really should revert to calling a spade a spade and discuss Marriage ONLY - I'm sick of this PC bills chat) in MARRIAGE Super and income through life is shared - not to be considered as individual income.
    c. Those in Marriages enjoy 50% of anything the old man has anyway, until he generally carks it first.
    d. I read not long ago that something like 41% of women and 60+% of men would retire on nothing more than the age pension. That kind of tends to belie the figures on 'women in poverty'.

    I, for one, am fed up with being shoved aside to suit some political agenda of reducing men to nothings, to offer to women endless handouts that I and the very vast majority of men never enjoyed - EVER. We've already had the education system skewed to suit girls more, we've had affirmative action in many job areas for years leading to public service over 70% women and teaching etc the same, skewed property settlement in majority woman-initiated divorce that leaves many men penniless and assetless, punitive child support for the one majority deprived of family without rhyme or reason (to suit the 'oh, I'm not happy' line - answer:- TOUGH!).. what more do you want?

    Women graduate Law, Dentistry, Pharmacy - all the good jobs with plenty of perks and income - and a raft of other things at around 60%+ of graduates due to all of the above - are you going to persuade me that men suddenly became stupid, negligent and incompetent?

    Frankly - on the basis of all of the above - I simply do not believe that there are more women living in poverty than men, and in fact, many are living off the fat of the land while many men struggle to get a few hours of hard yakka or live on the dole.

    This whole issue of the 'gender war' needs to be restored to some semblance of sanity.
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    9:52pm
    Your facts are INDISPUTABLE Grappler. Its been a long long time since I saw anything like your post in print as the media will not publish such a view. It is essentially correct, but there there will be a few women who may not fit the model who may be offended.
    It is long overdue that men had a fair go.
    Adrianus
    16th Sep 2014
    1:20pm
    Well said Grappler! I see many cases of men struggling while their ex wives are living in luxury.
    Oliva
    16th Sep 2014
    3:49pm
    All too true and completely un-acceptable. I don't like it ....
    Anonymous
    17th Sep 2014
    7:37am
    This is not to say that many women are not doing it tough - they are.. but they are collateral damage while the 'chosen ones' - the self-appointed elite - raise themselves to riches. The end game is simple - there are, in reality, only a few spots at the top - everyone else harmed along the way to this self-appointed elite getting to the 'top' is just considered an egg to be broken to make your omelette - MOST, men and women, will be in that category in order to facilitate the rise of that SAE.

    Cost blow-outs? Look at the 'ceo' positions instead of Chief Clerk we see now - just to satisfy some political agenda and some lust for money and the appearance of power for some. Look at the silly 'ceo' positions that incur huge salaries and perks for essentially being nothing and doing nothing, and all just to make it look as if society (and women in many cases) are being handed 'their fair share'. I call BS.
    Fready
    15th Sep 2014
    2:10pm
    People should take responsibility for their own decisions. I hear people saying "super wasn't available in my working life", but I started paying into super in in 1958 so its been available for a long time. They mean "compulsory super" wasn't around, as though they will only save if forced to. Well if that is your decision live with it. Similarly, people who decide to leave a marriage would surely have worked out how they were going to support themselves, wouldn't they.??
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    2:26pm
    There is still a couple of Vacant Spots under the Bridge here !!
    Anonymous
    15th Sep 2014
    4:47pm
    Not a laughing matter - I was 'under the bridge' in my early fifties after a lifetime of hard yards and countless hours of work - but neither of my two ex's were there, I can assure you.

    Years of 18+ hour days for nothing... I'm 65 and still work and am still resolving my retirement funds. I'll probably work until I'm 70 anyway - I don't mind.... only this time it's for ME.
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    5:50pm
    It wasn't a Joke And I wasn't Kidding !!... Its like the Barber Shop down there ! Take a Ticket and wait Your Turn !!...
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    5:53pm
    PS.. And none of them are Boat People I've Noticed ??.. Priority Housing ??
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    9:54pm
    Hope you're not under the Westgate in Melbourne particolor. Ok...they've rebuilt it now so you'll be right.
    I've never mey anybody who slept under a bridge. Are you guys legit???
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    10:06pm
    Mick not everything I say is Crap !! And Yes it is Quiet Common to see people sleeping rough here !! and from what I see it is not Uncommon elsewhere either ?? .
    When I was a Kid in Sydney I knew an old homeless Bloke who often slept under Tom Ugly's Bridge at Blakehurst ! And another Homeless Young Bloke that LIVED in the back of an old Ice Cream Truck at Turrella !!..AH ! The good times ??
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    10:22pm
    I must have lived a sheltered life as I also grew up in Sydney and never was aware of any of this. I'll have to talk to my parents about my education.
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    10:54pm
    You shore did lead a Sheltered life !! Times were tough back then ,but we led a full life and roamed everywhere with relative safety !! I often think of Old Harry in His Ice Cream Home !! We used to take Him a couple of bottles of beer down from Arncliffe where I lived at the time and He would tell us Yarns all Evening, although a lot of it was just His Imagination I think !!
    Oars
    16th Sep 2014
    7:40am
    Particolor - methinks you tell tall stories. Maybe you had more than yarns from old Harry in the old Ice Cream truck. There again most of these modern story tellers recite what others have done based on a a wild imagination from a sheltered cave. Try focusing on the real needy- they have been around forever and are really in dire straight now. It is no joking matter.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2014
    8:41am
    You tell the Truth ! You cop that !!..
    Any Fictional Matter I can think of from now on, Like the News Papers !! And there Abundant Followers !!
    aly_rob60
    16th Sep 2014
    11:32am
    Bring back the simple yet happy life, where we all talked to our neighbours, milk came in bottles with foil lids and was delivered by the "milky" horse drawn cart.

    It was safe to let the kids play out in the street, without fear of someone molesting them or getting run over by speeding cars.

    Milk Bars were within walking distance to your house and you could buy a frozen Sunny Boy or Razz for 5c and if you were really lucky (like my little brother) you would occasionally get a "Free" so you could run back down to the Milk Bar and claim it.

    The Milk Bars were owned and run by Aussies.

    Fish & Chips were a treat on a Friday night and a family of 4 could get a meal with change out of $20. The "Chippy" was usually owned by a family of newly arrived migrant Greeks who were friendly, knew everyone by name and kept their shops meticulously clean.

    Holden and Ford rivalry was about cars that were made in Australia and uniquely different. Not cars that all look so similar these days, that is is impossible to tell one make from the other.

    Aah, I must be getting old...... I could "yarn on" forever!!!!!
    aly_rob60
    16th Sep 2014
    11:34am
    Sorry.... I got really "off topic" there.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2014
    2:52pm
    Yep!! Its good to Reminisce now and again ! Does You good ! Without someone calling You a Liar .We are not al Lying Libs !!..
    I liked the Occasional Milk Bottle on the Doorstep with the hole in the lid where some Bird had pecked it for a Free breakfast of Cream !!
    Fair Dinkum
    15th Sep 2014
    2:54pm
    Happy cyclist
    this woman has a metal problem my son tried to get help for her from metal health ,community services marriage councillors ect ect but she would not admit that she had a problem because in the Chinese culture she would loose face if she admitted a problem. We have seen her and have video evidence of her attaching him she used to ring his boss and abuse him to the boss . She rang his work colleges' and abused her of trying to steel her husband. she would have times were she would go to bed for days at a time leaving my son and us to look after the children. There is many incidents like this . When our son was being attached and chased up the road by this woman he rang the police they came and took her away to the crises centre and all the blame was put on him the crises people refused to talk to us or my son appears that the crises people are a bunch of man hating lesbians My son is not perfect but in this case the blame is 80% hers and 20% his for may be not surrendering completely to her which she apparently wants. Because her sister who completes controls her 71 year old husband she wants to do the same she is 42 and our son 43 . happy cyclist so stick that in your pipe and smoke it We have proof of 90 % of incidents
    Anonymous
    15th Sep 2014
    4:54pm
    A very sad reflection on the 'shotgun' approach to DV etc that costs so much to so many for so little. Indeed - all men seem to be held responsible for any violence in the household, even if it means her is not 'controlling' his wife properly. Unfortunately the 'courts' (I just had that argument elsewhere) do not abide by the Rule of Law which requires proven fact - you can offer and support to an adequate standard all you want, but they will not be swayed from the 'official' line = men bad, women good. This pervades right into and through our 'law' system and creates a perversity of it - especially in any case involving man v woman.

    All this is one reason I set up Australia's Wrongfully Convicted and advocate for a RETURN to the Rule of Law rather than this current judgement and evidence based on emotion, and the way someone 'feels'.

    As for poverty - I can assure you I see a lot more elder ladies playing pokies at the club for $1, $2 and $5 a shot... whereas men play 20c and 25c a shot. We all 'feel' poor... but the proof is in the pudding....
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    6:05pm
    I'm looking for a Wealthy Widow !! I might start going to the Clubs and Hooking on to a $5 punter ??...
    Dollars over Respect?
    15th Sep 2014
    3:02pm
    Yes, people over retirement age, particularly women, all have it very hard. You are also correct in that these women do not want to be considered a burden and proudly 'just get by' (so many cannot, but stoically exist as best they can). Women who spent their early years, taking a break out of the workforce - to raise a family - were expected to be cared for by their husbands' savings (ie 'his' super) and with the return of our taxes set aside for our country's aged pension system. However, this is not their reality for the reasons you have so accurately described. How offensive, and outrightly unjust, is it for these wonderful patriotic mums to now be told their are a burden on our society and that they are not 'lifters'! In all fairness (ie the 'past' Aussie way), how can we move the goal posts after the game has commenced'? Paul Keating's compulsory super (including the practical amendments of gradually increasing these contributions till the society can provide for their own retirement years) IS the only way forward. What sort of society will it be in the future when only the wealthy can enjoy a decent and dignified old age? This current Govt must be held accountable for their lies (just to get elected) especially relating to their promise of "no changes to super". It is a 'NOT negotiable'! These proud senior citizens would never have imagined they would be 'needy' and requiring 'hand-outs' in their final years. Where is the dignity for all our Australian mothers? Immigrants are desperate to come to Australia for a better life in an egalitarian society - the people making decisions are openly, and boldly, disregarding these higher principles. Our ideals are progressively being blended out of our society by the taking on of global influences and exorbitant profit-making values, particularly those of countries that do not possess our nation's world-respected sensibilities. Mick: we are not talking about "men" here. Their situation is another topic. There are single working women who never had the opportunity to earn "equal pay" who are also disadvantaged in old age. An 'enterprising' man could easily get a better paid job, re-establish and move forward to make another life. This is rarely possible for a retirement aged woman who was divorced or widowed - especially later in life. That stats prove that most women who divorce do not re-marry! ...and men often re-marry within 2 years. Superannuation may not be a reliable savings option, but for the average Australian without financial expertise or who can afford honest and capable financial advice, it is the ONLY option.
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    9:56pm
    You should read Grappler's comments all the way down. He is on the money from what I can see.
    Foxy
    15th Sep 2014
    5:15pm
    Well well - I don't come here that often - and - when I do - I read people's comments without prejudice (or I thought so?) - however - seems to me that a lot of people here own their own homes/units etc. and would have absolutely NO idea NO idea about the "poor" pensioners whom are doing it real TOUGH in PRIVATE RENTAL! Also remember that a lot of women stayed home - raised a family - had NO job or super - sure yes - relied on the "man" BUT - it is these women today who are in total hardship - not everyone get's 1/2 the house - 1/2 the "whatever" - lot's of women get NOTHING after divorce! Please people have some damned compassion and think of others for a change! Please .................
    KSS
    15th Sep 2014
    5:41pm
    Yes Foxy BUT it is NOT a gender issue. If you have nothing and are on the aged pension, it is the same for men and women. There may be more women than men on the pension but women live longer than men so that is to be expected.

    The argument should not be on gender lines. Argue that living on the pension puts you on the poverty line if you must. Argue that many women did not have the opportunity to save in superannuation for a number of reasons so need to rely on the pension. Argue that some women's situation may not have turned out as they hoped (and men could argue this too). But the aged pension is the same for men and women. Women are not disadvantaged by being on the pension per se. The only disadvantage older women really have is that for many the ability to save for their own superfund either did not exist or was interrupted with child rearing.

    That's why I have some sympathy for the male views expressed above.
    Dollars over Respect?
    15th Sep 2014
    6:23pm
    Foxy your comment is pertinent to the issues Debbie raised in today's topic "Older Women the Poorest". There seems to be a lot of 'ranting' on this site, as it provides an opportunity for some to seek to divert the discussion by turning it around to issues which are 'off the point' and a personal gripe. It was not suggested that all men are able to recoup - some have not been able to do this - obviously. This topic's discussion relates to the "Older" women's predicament - ie those who are currently of retirement or pension age. A loss of a partner and a divorce can be equally devastating for everyone concerned (both come with much grief as well as financial set backs) however, women have not had the opportunities the majority of men of this age group did (fact). Not a lot has changed over the years for women, because some women, who are divorcing over recent years (since the introduction of compulsory super), and generally have a much better education than older women enjoyed, find it is possible for them to get work (even a career) that is not as poorly paid as was the case for Older women. These younger women do have a chance to start again...unless they have children! Then, once again, no super whilst not working or virtually no opportunity to save anything, especially if working part-time, so that kids can be picked up from school and, there is no denying, that largely, the responsibility still falls to the woman to fill the gaps. So the future doesn't look a whole lot different even for these younger women unless changes are made. The solution may well be that the aged pension entitlement should be available only to lower paid workers or people, who, through no fault of their own, ie raising young pre-school, early childhood age children, genuine sickness, redundancies, etc, have been forced out of the workforce for valid reasons. Households with incomes over, say (for a couple) $180,000 pa or substantial assets (inherited or otherwise gifted) should be able to plan to fund their own retirements. Wealthy, or executive salaried people, who have packages (including cars, superannuation savings, negotiated share options, trust arrangements etc) do have the ability to save enough to fund their own retirement. Also, I don't believe anyone who hasn't worked, and hasn't paid their taxes for a decent period of time, should get the aged pension either. All this could be tracked by the Tax Office easily enough. Perhaps some of the more creative minds amongst this site's contributors could set their focus on proposing their solution to this problem?
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    10:06pm
    Welcome back Foxy.
    In a divorce settlement including all property (house, money, cars, furniture and superannuation) is NOW DIVIDED EQUALLY. This has been the case for a long time. Its even become so distorted that you could get a $1 million dollar inheritence and your partner would get half of that.
    gillham
    15th Sep 2014
    10:17pm
    HEY 'Dollars' what opportunities did these men have. Opportunity to work 3 jobs so the wife could look after the kids, retrospective legislation like the Family Law Act which did not apply at time of marriage, go to war and get slaughtered, get conscripted, have Society say men of older generations didn't care for their kids.

    The gripe here is that like all other Social issues it is about women, when poverty in old age is inclusive of both genders. The gender exclusivity of the topic is not warranted and merely mirrors what many comments here say 'What about men". It reflects that Society only cares about women and for at least the last 30 years has turned it's back on men.
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    10:26pm
    Remember gillham that women now fill almost ALL of the top media anchors and the agenda on these programs is anything other than balanced. So don't be surprised at where the debate has gone because the lament never ends and men rarely get a sympathetic ear despite many ending up living in parks and the like. Its not a fair world so just soldier on as men have had to do for several decades now.
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    6:01pm
    Hey Mick your 50% is good in theory, but then they pout in qualifiers.Like does the bloke work can he get an income, was she out of the workforce (even when you are over 65). The Family Court Barrister told me , put up with a poor relationship otherwise you will be nothing but on poverty line. So I am a male locked into a poor relationship to avoid poverty as a result of the Family law Act.
    tisme
    15th Sep 2014
    5:41pm
    try being a 54 yo woman who has worked for 25+ years 24/7 but isnt recognised as a worker so doesnt have superannuation etc. An Australian woman who doesnt have the same basic rights as other Aussies. its the same old story no one cares till it happens to them
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    10:07pm
    All people who work get superannuation.
    Golden Oldie
    17th Sep 2014
    4:39pm
    Mick, to get superannuation you have to be earning a wage. In the sixties/seventies I was pregnant and bringing up 2 kids and helping my husband in a butcher shop. Under the same scenario in the current climate I would still not be eligible for super.
    I worked in the home and shop 24/7 and did not receive a wage. Your throwaway line does not apply to everyone. When I first started work in the late 50's superannuaton had a different name. It was called Life Insurance, and the biggest benefits went to the Insurance Companies.
    wally
    15th Sep 2014
    6:07pm
    Maybe this is a "down side" of women having a longer life expectancy than men. This would result in their savings having to last longer, and I believe that their superannuation payouts are less than men's over a lifetime of work. Outliving your savings is not something to look forward to.
    Oars
    15th Sep 2014
    8:23pm
    There is always an oldies comedy show at the local bingo hall. That useually gets a few pennies and a lift home !
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    8:23pm
    Todays Costs would Chew Up anyone's Savings !! Mine went 10 Years Back ?? . I could buy a Bonzerific House for the price of a Small Sedan nowadays ?? What we were told by the EXPERTS back then Didn't stand a Chance in todays Greedville !!.And I doubt if todays EXPERTS will give You any better Advice !!
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    10:09pm
    particolor: money in the bank when you have inflation is bad. One needs income producing assets like a rental property or good dividend paying shares.
    If you took the cash option then you lose. Not rocket science.
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    10:22pm
    Mick I don't care I'm happy !! Well ! As happy as you can be when surrounded by Turkeys where I live !!
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    10:28pm
    You hit the nail on the head mate. "Don't worry...be happy". I wish!!
    wally
    16th Sep 2014
    12:01pm
    Hi portico, You are dead right about "70's house prices and the price of today's cars. We bought a 3 bedder brick veneer in 1976 for $36,950. That sort of money today would get you a Commodore. House got sold after we divorced. It would be worth a lot more now.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2014
    4:35pm
    My Father bought a house at Carlton in 1955 for 9,000 Pounds !! and today the same house is worth (Selling for ) 1.3 Million Dollars ?? that's 36,111.9 times more than He paid I think .. Go figure !!.... And if the Math is wrong You accountants.. STIFF !!
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    4:54pm
    Particolor it is 144 times the original cost or 1440%. .Nice place Carlton (Sydney) heart of Dragons territory and Carlton Hotel.You'll find lots of Chinas there now who never heard of Warren Saunders, Norm O'Neill, Gasnier, Provan, or even me . best wishes cause I loved the place.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2014
    6:56pm
    Well I'm a Modern day Unreal Estate Agent and want All I Can Get !! Never mind the facts !!..
    I knew writing that at the end would attract Accountants !!..Who did Bugden play for ??
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    7:19pm
    Bugden played for St George in the hay days. then Parra.
    particolor
    17th Sep 2014
    5:21pm
    Yep !! I thought You had forgotten Him !!
    gillham
    15th Sep 2014
    6:52pm
    I am thoroughly sick of every social initiative focussing on women at the exclusion of white anglo males. If you think there is no problem consider the thrust of comments on this article.I can assure people that there is an increasing bitterness by men towards women because of the exclusivity of women as first priority on this and any other Social issues. If you travel by caravan the outback caravan parks are limited by 'homeless' single men of which 50% are the collateral damage of the Family Court.

    There is an underclass of white males created by having Society turn there back on these men, while the Society love affair with women continues unabated. It all starts with a culpably biased education system that favours women. If women are so poor what do they do after dominating the University graduations and then continue aided and abetted through the workforce by affirmative action. Two years maternity leave? My security of tenure is 2 weeks!!!!

    Of course the author or protagonist of this 'poorer older women' agenda does not validate her percentages. Just like the mythical 17% has never been openly validated. Mere folklore.
    CindyLou
    16th Sep 2014
    12:44am
    Bit puzzled by statement about outback caravan parks being limited by 'homeless men'...have just got back from an around Australia road trip, didn't see this hoard of homeless men, what I did see were caravan parks in somewhat remote areas where many workers, primarily men, were staying whilst earning the big $$$.

    This topic should not be a gender slanging match, it's about women, I'd imagine in their 60s upwards experiencing financial difficulties. Not nice to drag the discussion into a bitch session airing personal gripes.
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    8:16am
    Cindy Lou why is it about women and women only. Men, particularly white anglo men are on the bottom rung of Society's pecking order for social issues and this article perpetuates that mentality. It is culturally embedded and so engrained it is continued, particularly by self serving women.

    you obviously stayed at upper market van parks. Not where the homeless men are, in the absolute budget parks. Yes on the Australia road trip.

    Women want it all get it all, and are protective of that position. Has anyone ever focussed on men's health, education, death rates at war, men's worse unemployment compared to women? Apart from the major wars, Afghanastan 40 Aussie men and no women killed. Now we go the Iraq. Same deal. Women need to carry their load as well, across all fields. Not seek individual attention or special treatment which they have refined to an art form
    CindyLou
    16th Sep 2014
    10:36am
    Again assumption s and generalizations, re van parks. We often free camped, met single woman and men who travelled permanently in their vehicles, as well as retires who also lived on the road. Many of these folk appeared to be on limited means and their vehicles and lifestyle reflected their modest incomes. The van parks varied, some locatations there were a number of permanent residents, given that the govt gives assistance re housing I imagine this is a good option for some folk.

    What puzzles me is the level of passion some folk have in relation to topics such as these. I could argue the opposite way, but I choose not to. I truly wish the best for all folk, I understand life is not always fair but it is what it is. Chill
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    12:33pm
    Life is fine for women because their issues get addressed. It's OK to be puzzled about these matters if you are female and hold the high ground. It's easy to 'chill' when you hold all the cards. Untouchable species with a supercilious 'male drones' approach. As a white male I do not feel to be part of the Australian Community because of Australian Society's obsessive love affair with women. Think of sons. What have they got to look forward to other than relationships which will see them consigned to asset decimation, at the woman's whim. Repeat, why is this article gender specific?
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    7:27pm
    For those Living below the Plimsoll Line ! Get a Snorkel !!..
    Anonymous
    15th Sep 2014
    7:40pm
    Probably late for the older generation unless you're planning to get married in your mature years...but people don't let stars in your eyes prevent you from making a contract..then both parties will be protected.
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    7:47pm
    Yes !!! I think that's the only Protection You will need at our age ??
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    10:11pm
    Fleur: Wise comment. It has gotten to that stage for both sexes.
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    4:38pm
    What male would get married in their older years and lose another half of assets, while women collect another half?
    particolor
    16th Sep 2014
    4:47pm
    Gillman but what if She goes to the Happy Hunting Ground First ??..JK
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    5:53pm
    Particilor, women don't have to go to the HHG, they just have to file for divorce and move on to the next sucker. ????. Their HHG is sacrosanct, despite the years of ageing..
    CindyLou
    15th Sep 2014
    8:05pm
    I cannot comment either way about whether older women are the poorest in society because my opinion would be skewed by my personal experiences and these are not necessary a true representation of the broader situation. On a personal level I have encouraged my adult daughters in their 20s to contribute extra $ to super so as to take advantage of the govt co contribution. Neither young women are on high wages so I am conscious of the need to get money into super early so that it can compound and hopefully will be a nice nest egg down the track

    What disturbs me is homelessness amongst young and old of both gender. I could not think of a worse experience for anyone than having no place to call home.

    However, I do feel this topic (and other similar topics) has generated many comments that are not focused on topic, rather some contributors appear to vent personal gripes. It's worrying that some people seem to be so bitter towards women.
    Oars
    15th Sep 2014
    8:27pm
    Cindy Lou- you are almost right in teaching them to save. Then once they have enough money to buy good clothes- go out and flirt outrageously to hook a wealthy man- and hope he is neither married nor gay. Then hang on for 12 months and one day and divorce the b*****.
    CindyLou
    15th Sep 2014
    9:03pm
    No, you have it so very wrong. They will be independently wealthy and perhaps will need to make sure some smooth talking leach doesn't try to woo them !
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    9:05pm
    And You said I was Trite !! Hackneyed !.. But Your Teachings do make a lot of sense nowadays !!
    gillham
    15th Sep 2014
    10:06pm
    Well Cindy Lou i won't have any pity when some young bloke marries them and then gets half their super.

    Men are bitter towards women because women have all Social issues in their favour, backed by legislation,and here we are again addressing a 'women' issue. What about men. Repeat, What about men.
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    10:14pm
    Some of these comments are making a statement about where our society has arrived. It seems to me that it has become more a case of Law of the Jungle, and the Family Court has had a profound influence on this.
    CindyLou
    16th Sep 2014
    12:55am
    In response to gillham...my girls are both in europe at the moment, are sinle and enjoying life. If and when they marry or live with someone I would strongly urge them to get a prenup type agreement so as to clearly define who owns what. Ni have spoken to them re this issue already.

    I would not want them to cheat another peron nor would I want to see them cheated. It's just common sense and common decency.
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    7:59am
    Cindy Lou so what about all the men of the pension age who were married before the Family Law Act and pre-nips. Yep retrospective. Anyhow if they are living with someone, married or not, the pre-nip won't be worth the price of the paper. I'll love it when this impacts on women as much as it has to men. The law will be changed then to suit women.
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    8:32am
    I might add Cindy Lou that in regard to relationships women have thrown common decency out the window.
    CindyLou
    16th Sep 2014
    10:14am
    Again, generalizations, some women and some men have no moral compass...
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    12:23pm
    Cindy :ou, generalisations are what women thrive on. All men are bastards, all men are pedophiles, all men are DV exponents, all women are discriminated against, men receive higher salaries. Women cannot pigeon hole men as they have and expect any compassion in return. And when a relationship hits the rocks all women will take the same path. Financial and character assassination of the male.
    CindyLou
    16th Sep 2014
    5:00pm
    I feel truly sorry for you, life must have dealt you some tough knocks.
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    5:19pm
    No Cindy, once my greatest feeling was for women and I had great aspirations for their supposed beautiful persona which once existed. I now realise that was a delusion and that the most beautiful species are now the narcissists of society with out peer. I haver never been able to shake being a gentleman for which it has got me nothing but derision and contempt. I have taught my kids better values despite being cautious to do so.
    Oars
    15th Sep 2014
    8:14pm
    Try going on a pensioner's love boat- avoid other women ( and Captain Stubin cos he's gay) as they are probably out for the same "sugar daddy" too .See you there !!
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    8:31pm
    Oarsome !!!
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    10:15pm
    Foursome?
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    10:15pm
    Foursome?
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    10:29pm
    Eh gad....am I starting into dementia?????
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    10:30pm
    Good one Mick !! Now You've got a Rowing Eight !!
    fish head
    15th Sep 2014
    9:59pm
    This catchcry of "ageing population being a burden on society" fairly gets my hackles rising. Burden? you younger people rest on the foundations provided by the previous generationMaybe you are starting off with an distorted view of what constitutes necessity. We provided your start in life. I fail to see why expecting some reciprical support is regarded as a burden.
    particolor
    15th Sep 2014
    10:11pm
    That's My point too Fishy !! They weren't just dropped off here by UFO !!..onto a fully Infrastructured Planet ??
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    10:17pm
    Maybe we are getting to the stage where we put older Australians outside the igloo for the night.
    Or in the words of big business when workers get a zilch pay rise "we can't afford it".
    A story in this Debbie.
    MICK
    15th Sep 2014
    10:31pm
    Debbie: the cure for bruises....have a hot bath (with epsom salts), rub on alovera when you get out, have a hot rum and then a good night's sleep. Guaranteed to work.
    Cheers.
    Dollars over Respect?
    15th Sep 2014
    11:52pm
    Debbie, thank you for raising this dire situation for discussion. With an estimated 533,000 women over 65 living under the poverty line, Australia is indeed facing a crisis, and it is very true that little is being done to address the issue. I have first-hand experience of the situation, so am not surprised by the number quoted, as quite a few of my friends find themselves in this very situation - especially worrying for those who do not own a home and have to pay rent. Of the friends who have been able to find part-time work - four of them now in their 70s! - they have had no choice, as their savings have become depleted and the age pension is just not enough. These women have to work in jobs well below their abilities (no place for an ego with blatant Ageism still considered a subject for humour in our society). It appears many of these women feel they have little power to bring about a change by participating and contributing their story - perhaps they are just too tired? However, not having full access to the essential technology, or the time, to participate in such discussions (being an unnecessary expense) is more than likely the major reason so few women have participated. It is worth noting that there are a number of men, who resent the topic even being raised! They're obviously upset - even angered by the topic. It seems you may need to find a topic for this forum, so they too can vent their frustrations.
    CindyLou
    16th Sep 2014
    1:02am
    Another topic to allow for venting...very sad to have such anger and frustration.
    Life is way too short to be so negative.
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    7:53am
    Men are upset and angered because once again it's women to the fore and a very sexist approach. But I supposed men should be used to getting shafted these days by manipulated figures that suit the cause.
    CindyLou
    16th Sep 2014
    10:10am
    Thank goodness your attitude does not reflect all men's viewpoints
    (your generalization 'men are upset)
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    12:17pm
    You'd be surprised Cindy Lou. Most men are just not prepared to say so. I can assure you most feel the same as I do.
    CindyLou
    16th Sep 2014
    5:04pm
    I would never assume to speak on behalf of all women and with the deepest respect I feel you have made another huge sweeping statement.

    As stated above, I truly wish your the best as I believe it's not good to harbour negativatity.
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    5:11pm
    Cindy Lou if everything women get is positive it is difficult for women to harbour negativity.
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    5:11pm
    Cindy Lou if everything women get is positive it is difficult for women to harbour negativity.
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    5:11pm
    Cindy Lou if everything women get is positive it is difficult for women to harbour negativity.
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    5:31pm
    Sorry about the repeats but not my doing ( Then again multitasking?)

    Like having a brain and using it.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2014
    7:09pm
    With all the Negatives and Positives I'm now Pointing North ??

    16th Sep 2014
    1:02am
    Garbage!!!!!
    No one on a pension lives below the poverty line.
    Rubbish report written by and for welfare bludgers
    particolor
    16th Sep 2014
    8:28am
    So Older Ladies on the Old Age Pension are now Welfare Bludgers AY ??
    I'm starting to like You more and More !!..
    We'll put them in the Mall with a Begging Bowl will we ?? Well You would !!
    What's the Matter ? Are Your Share Prices Dropping or something nasty ??
    aly_rob60
    16th Sep 2014
    11:49am
    Solomon..... wait till you are in the position to receive a welfare payment, before you pass judgement.

    Not all people are "welfare bludgers". Just turn on the TV every night to see how many companies are going bust, retrenching people or leaving the country all together to manufacture overseas.

    Where the hell are all those unemployed supposed to get jobs?
    Look at Geelong in Victoria, which is a classic case in point.
    Target are retrenching (again), Jetstar and Qantas are retrenching people from Avalon airport, Shell are closing down, Ford are closing down, etc etc. Geelong is really copping it! I don't even live there and I feel gutted for those people!

    A fair percentage of Welfare recipients are not on Welfare by choice. Our Government is to blame for allowing so many jobs go overseas. And not just the current Govt. We have been on a steady downward spiral for at least 20 years.

    My husband was made redundant by our State Govt, because "they wanted younger go-getters" in their Department!! A nice "thankyou" after 20 years of loyal employment. NOT!
    Anonymous
    16th Sep 2014
    1:12pm
    The report is a nonsense. How can you be below the poverty line if you are receiving the pension?
    aly_rob60
    16th Sep 2014
    1:53pm
    Solomon, I guess you will never know until you are in that position.

    Simple answer is.... welfare payments don't even cover the grocery bill, let alone the household expenses!!!

    Try watching your bank balance reducing by $300 a month, averaged over 12 months, despite receiving a welfare payment.

    That's all your hard-earned savings from the working years.

    That is living frugally, feeding and supporting 3 people, paying all the utility bills, rates and medical bills on time, not travelling anywhere, staying home weekends, renting the occasional DVD instead of going to the cinemas, not going to a football game in 3 years, recycling timber and materials to try to keep the house in good repair. Doing our own repairs to the (one) car we own, which is a 1991 model!

    That's just for starters.

    Yeah! we are living the "good life"! That was a bit of sarcasm, in case you missed it.
    Anonymous
    16th Sep 2014
    2:51pm
    you're not making sense aly_rob. are you supporting 3 people on your single pension?

    How are you lining below "the poverty line" which issue with this topic.
    I'm not saying people are not doing it tough, but BELOW the Poverty Line - c'mon - sensationalist nonesense
    Radish
    16th Sep 2014
    3:05pm
    A very good article in today's West. People earning $60,000 plus are finding it hard to live. It went on to say that the problem is not in what you earn it is how you manage your money. Spot on. I worked with a man on $200,000 20 years ago...I had more money in the bank than he did and I earnt a pittance compared to his wage.

    Unfortunately, it is a true fact that peoples' expenditure rises in line with their income.

    How many on this site are earning not much over $20,000 a year and are managing. Some I know even save on their pension and have a holiday every year. It is all about good budgetting. Some have no problem doing that othesr just don't have any idea how to go about it. Maybe schools should start educating children in "life skills" before they go out into the wider world.
    Anonymous
    16th Sep 2014
    3:38pm
    Spot on Radish

    Anyone on a pension IS NOT living below the poverty line, period.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2014
    3:54pm
    And you pair should be paying RENT and then come back and make that Speech !!.
    You Boss trained you well ! But you are too obvious !!..
    And I mean Todays Rents ! Not the Three and Sixpence Half Penny you give Grandma a Week !!
    particolor
    16th Sep 2014
    3:56pm
    And You probably eat all the Old Dears food too !!
    Oliva
    16th Sep 2014
    3:56pm
    aly- Rob60. All 3 of you should have access to separate welfare benefits if you are all unemployed or sick. Rob if you are n fact isupporting 3 people on your own ...what do you expect.
    Anonymous
    16th Sep 2014
    4:09pm
    Oliva - yes Rob isnt making sense.

    Particolor - which part of "living below the poverty" line dont you understand - no food for days, no shelter etc etc . Look it up before you start spruiking nonsense
    Radish
    16th Sep 2014
    10:34am
    The idea that once married, women would be looked after by their husband for life has long gone. This was the case many moons ago but thankfully now that we have had compulsory superannuation since 1992 women in the workforce will have superannuation in their retirement and those who do not work will have access to their husband's superannuation in case of divorce.

    I was surprised to find out how long superannuation has been around but most did not want to contribute and lock their money away for such a long time until retirement.

    We are still not contributing enough and if I was still in the workforce I would be upping my contributions more than is currently required.
    Pickles
    16th Sep 2014
    1:10pm
    Are these women any worse of than aged men in a similar position They receive the same pensions as men yet they expect that they will be considered more needy All the time we see that this has to be done for them or they should be given some special treatment on the sole grounds that they are women Yet all the time they are screaming out that they want equality and when they get it they complain because they are being treated equally
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    1:20pm
    Well Pickles an introduction to today's women with their self ordained entitlement. Women today are takers. Women of earlier generations were givers. Women are cherry pickers on equality which is undertaken on their own selective terms. The main aim is to shift all power to women and render men powerless. Been successful to date. And despite protestations they are all the same when push comes to shove.
    Adrianus
    16th Sep 2014
    1:24pm
    Pickles, we have all heard the word EQUALITY used by politicians many times, however, do we know what the word really means today?
    Oliva
    16th Sep 2014
    3:05pm
    Oh Really? Now I know what my problem is.
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    3:59pm
    You are fortunate Oliva. I don't know my problem other than dangling appendage. It cost ya.
    Oliva
    16th Sep 2014
    4:50pm
    Hi Gillham I was joking. My H and I worked forever We are OK by comparison. But we earned it the hard way...working, budgeting, going without. And more important we have a wonderful family, our major achievement.
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    5:07pm
    Oliva, Well done. Same here regarding earned it, and family. I have no regrets. Gave kids standards etc for which in their 30's they thanked me personally. I just can't tolerate gender specific rubbish creating an 'I need' mentality. Achievement for me is kids with no dependency on others or Government handouts, and self independency and development.
    Oliva
    16th Sep 2014
    8:11pm
    There we go Gillham. Congratulations to U 2 We are twins.
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    3:57pm
    Look, just to put all this to rest. I'm a male and living on clover 'cause I WORKED ALL MY LIFE until retirement at 65. I'm married but stick around because I'll be impoverished if I leave. I wish I was one of those poor women getting attention while they splurge their ex or dead husbands legacy. Life's been good apart from the now ruling gender who show not one ounce of compassion to the gender that provided for them in my life time. If you think ISIS is bad women are worse and far more subtle. Even sleep in the same bead giving nuances of affection while they plot your downfall .
    particolor
    16th Sep 2014
    4:05pm
    Beware the Ides of March !! Do not go to the Forum today Julius !
    I feel a Bad Moon Rising !!!
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    4:58pm
    Particolor , Rome is burning. Save the women.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2014
    6:58pm
    Id rather have a Fiddle thanks !!
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    4:03pm
    To Cindy Lou et al, as predicted no answer forthcoming as to why this article is gender specific.
    CindyLou
    16th Sep 2014
    5:15pm
    Have a read of paragraph 4, it explains the research project and the resultant statistics. Seems they looked at several groups of people as part of this research.

    The results of this research highlighted women, hence I Imagine the reason for this topic-discussion. The article does not say that there are no elderly men living in poverty, rather the research revealed a greater proportion of elderly women compared to elderly men. It's just stats.
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    5:26pm
    Cindy, Stats, lies, and delusion. Have you read of the heading. Apart from that, my self funded retiree persona means nothing in that I contributed, but nevertheless lets focus on women and give them handouts plus their purloining of husbands assets. I was deluded to think it was admirable to work and sacrifice my life and kids when it can all be taken away in a stroke of a pen by the wishes of women. fortunately that is not the case yet. But who nows what tomorrow holds. I've got no protection and can end in a caravan park.

    16th Sep 2014
    4:16pm
    The single aged pension is $22,212

    The official poverty line is $21,441.68 incl housing and $12,794.08 excl housing.

    So no one is living below the line

    End of debate
    particolor
    16th Sep 2014
    4:42pm
    Your Right !!
    Its like FOO with His nose over the Wall !! ----U---- !!
    Anonymous
    16th Sep 2014
    5:18pm
    Thank you. I know I'm right. What took you so long to realise that.
    Spending too much time with your communist mate Mussitate perhaps?
    particolor
    16th Sep 2014
    7:06pm
    No I was reading about People Slagging Off IS !! Couldn't care less about Commos Nor Born To Rule Your Lot !! ..Boy this Place is in a Mess now with its Multi DooDahs !!
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    5:45pm
    Hey, Cindy Lou et al, can you please tell me why I feel disenfranchised from Society based on my gender. I would prefer to love you as I once did. But can't trust ya, can't confide in you, and above all please remove my distrust of your narcissism and self perpetuating obsession. Or just the shear delight in neutering men.
    gillham
    16th Sep 2014
    6:09pm
    In the last article of the subject topic Catherine Brown (whatever luminary she is) says older women are a fantastic resource and are so dignified. Can she please acknowledge older men are much the same, and have such unending experience. I doubt she can condescend to such humility.
    buby
    16th Sep 2014
    8:37pm
    I'm in decent housing but i have to pay through the nose for it. but still its not that great either. I don't see the sun much , neither does me washing. I get a lot of pollution around me.
    I won't live past 70 should i live that long.
    Adrianus
    17th Sep 2014
    3:19pm
    Now c'mon buby, stay positive. Life expectancies have been revised. A person born today will have a life expectancy of 94 years. I have a park nearby where I can get plenty of exercise and fresh air.
    Nan Norma
    17th Sep 2014
    8:02pm
    What everyone seems to have forgotten is that men tend to die younger than women. So there are not as many single older men as there are single older women. That is the reason there are more women living in poverty.
    Also, when a marriage breaks down, the man can usually still work and earn an income, but if there children, a woman can't.
    particolor
    17th Sep 2014
    8:23pm
    I thought the Item saw about Older Women 65 and Older ?? What are they doing with Children ?? Unless they are Grandchildren with no Parents ! Or Basket Case Parents !! And even then they will be Catered for by Welfare Payments Etc !!!..
    nan
    17th Sep 2014
    8:32pm
    Sorry particolor, I was refering to the other arguements made in relation to men coming of better in a marriage breakdown.
    particolor
    17th Sep 2014
    9:30pm
    I haven't seen one Yet. I've seen Broken Hearted Men !! That get treated like Men have no Feelings !! Well Most of us do !..
    Golden Oldie
    18th Sep 2014
    12:55am
    Note to Sceptic, my maths may need a little work, as suggested by you, and as it is about 30 years since I studied Statistics you could be right. However, if you read the article correctly it found that 82% of people living in abject poverty were elderly, with women over 65 making up nearly 36%, followed by elderly men at 29.5%. In this case I was quite correct in adding the 2 figures together as elderly singles of both sexes made up 65.5%. The remaining 16.5% presumably elderly couples. My point was that it is a shame that so many people have it so tough in our supposed "lucky country".
    Adrianus
    18th Sep 2014
    8:28am
    Golden, these statistics may change over the next 50 plus years. A female born today has a life expectancy of 94 years while a male has 93. If the gap is closing then the eternal quest for EQUALITY of the sexes is working.
    I think it was Paul Keating who said we are no longer the lucky country. He could have been referring to the 18% bank lending rates at the time?
    Min
    18th Sep 2014
    8:26am
    Sorry Mick and others who think this article is sexist but you are wrong. I agree that single men live in poverty too but I think it is more a "coupleist" society (new word I just created liken to "capitalist") than a sexist one because:-

    - Single pensioners get $22,204 pa Couples -$33488 pa

    - but single people have to pay 100 per cent electricity, rates, insurance, phone, petrol, food etc out of that $200 a week extra
    - whereas the couples 'only extra expenses are food, clothing etc as you only need one car and one house in retirement
    - and if you a woman on your own you have to pay handymen who will often overcharge etc because you are not a threat
    - women tend to live longer and men tend to marry again as they like to be cared for but women are more independent so there would be a lot more women on their own then men.
    I am single and on a Part Centrelink pension plus part Super but all my Income goes to those bills (and we only get half the Government discounts) which keep rising and so does the cost of living which makes the figure unfair for singles so I can understand the claim that women on their own are living in poverty. I could not survive without my Super income although small as I only contributed for 20 years.
    I have a sister that I help out in that situation totally reliant on Centrelink in a tiny Centrelink one bedroom unit who got nothing out of a marriage break up and I totally admire her strength, resiliance and attitude.

    Years ago I saw a woman talking about it being a "couples" society on TV and the interviewer asked "why?". She said because single people do not have a "Voice..not enough people care".

    This article is the truth. Thank you for airing it Debbie.
    particolor
    18th Sep 2014
    9:42am
    I liked that Good Honest Post as It put things in Perspective !! I like the $33,488 as it was around what I was on when I retired !! And would go back to it any day , Even though times have changed it wouldn't be the struggle of the Single amount !! Thank You !!
    Oliva
    18th Sep 2014
    11:26am
    I do feel sorry for folks who come to the later years of their lives with minimal assets. That's life, it's hard work-some do well and some don't. My view is that if you are much better off now than were your parents, stop whinging. You have done well enough. Congratulations!
    Adrianus
    18th Sep 2014
    2:14pm
    Min you may have a good point regarding couples but I am always sceptical when statistics are cherry picked and massaged to prove a point.

    “The elderly groups accounted for 82 per cent of those who lived in abject poverty. Elderly single men living in abject poverty totalled 29.5 per cent, but nearly 36 per cent of elderly single women lived in the same conditions. Catherine Brown, CEO of the foundation did the calculations on a national level, "That's 533,000 older women who are living below the poverty line nationally.”

    Therefore 82 out of 100 hundred were elderly.
    Of this 82, 29.5 were men and 36 were women. Although the writer claims 36% of elderly single women lived in the same conditions, this cannot also be true, even though we don’t know how many elderly single women there are. We therefore need to assume a grammatical error.

    What we do know is there are 3,398,400 elderly (65+) people in Australia and only 100,000 more elderly women than men.
    If there are 533,000 older single women living below the poverty line than this is indeed a problem because it means that we have a total of 1,214,055 elderly people of both sexes living under the line.
    Now getting back to the total elderly. If we assume 533,000 elderly single women is 36% of the total, that makes a total of 1,480,555 elderly single women. If we subtract elderly single women from the total elderly we get 1,917,845 people who are single males or married elderly. Given that elderly women outnumber elderly men by 1/.84 that equates to 1,649,200 elderly women married or not. If 1,480,555 are single then only 168,645 elderly women must be married. It is not possible that only 10.2% of elderly women are married because that would mean that only the same number of elderly men are married, wouldn’t it?. I put it to you that the above figures from the Age journalist may be wrong?
    particolor
    18th Sep 2014
    4:23pm
    Thanks for that Pythagoras !!.. My Pies really are Squared after reading that !!..
    I'll leave Enlightened !!..
    Oliva
    18th Sep 2014
    7:28pm
    That puts it all in perspective Frank or does it? Any elderlies living in poverty need to go talk to someone. Family comes to mind. That's what family is for actually.
    Not Senile Yet!
    18th Sep 2014
    11:42pm
    I do not believe these figures quoted are accurate or relevant!
    The only reason there are more women than men in poverty is because there are more women than men alive...full stop!!!!
    This is tommy rot! All people on a Pension/Retired are indeed living in poverty because of the devaluation of the value of the pension through inflation.
    If you were unlucky to be divorced once or worse still twice...then you lost 1/2 each time. The loss is not relevant....It is the impossible task of Replacing it. A house once bought at $50,000 on a single income is impossible to replace when inflation makes it worth $200,000 to buy/replace.
    Let's not add up the value of furnishing it?
    Anyone on here that agrees with the sums offered by SOLOMAN as to what is living in poverty probably is in the same boat as he is....ie not a clue and definitely never experienced poverty or homelessness.....nor a divorce......or had to sell his home!
    What a wank...$12,ooo poverty line.$21,000 incl housing....so sad that he believes such trumped up stats...probably supplied by some Govt Wank that creates averages from nothing!
    The real fact is that the ACTUAL $ VALUE of the Pension has been eroded over the Last 20 years by the inflation of the most basic needs...food, shelter/housing,elecricity, gas, registration and insurance for vehicles, public transport...all the basics.
    I seriously doubt that the Pension today would be equivalent to the Pension 20 years ago....as per value of the dollar now to then.
    All people receiving under $25,000 are seriously struggling to survive.....most cannot afford cars or insurance.....many have given up Private Health Insurance because they cannot afford to pay for it!
    THEN ALONG COMES ABBOT & COSTELLO to Chop! Chop! Chop! and cry Poor due unbalanced budget deficit!
    Yet they sign up for 60Billion worth of Planes from USA
    and give business a 1.5% tax cut!!!!!
    Liar Liar Liar Pants are on Fire Tony!!!!
    None of the Baby Boomers I know have anything like $100,000 in Super......but the Govt insists that they do????
    Why have they now deemed the Super income to be taken from the pension? Why have they upped the retirement age to 70???
    Because they will save a fortune when you can only get the dole from the time you loose your job till you are 70.
    What's next? They want to exclude access to you Super until you 70 as well!!! Why?? Simply put there are too many who will access it all at the same time.....leaving a big hole in invested savings. Best way to stop that from happening. Take away access to lump sums and only allow an Annuity Payment......don't laugh.....that's what is being talked about right now!!!!
    It is Not your Super anymore,,,,,,they make the rules......so they control YOUR money....not you!
    BIG RIP OFF!!!!
    particolor
    19th Sep 2014
    8:00am
    Solomon's Turn !!
    Adrianus
    19th Sep 2014
    9:24am
    NSY, I dispute your assertion that there are more women than men in Australia! For a start there are more male babies born than females. More males die earlier than females, so by the time both sexes get to an elderly age of 65 or older there are 16% more females in this age group. But the ratio is about even overall. However if you add geography into the demographics then you find more males in less populated areas. The higher female population is concentrated to the high population areas like east coast capital cities.
    When the aged pension was introduced the life expectancy of a male was 68 so the cost was very low. That's 3 years on the pension compared to 20 years today. We have also added a lot of people onto the welfare system. Centerlink is the biggest business in many towns.
    If you want to talk about the cost of living you need to look at the blowout in wages and red/green tape. Life is not simple anymore, you need a permit for just about everything except to have a baby. Our public service now employs around 1.9m and taxes have been increased to fuel this madness.
    One thing that doesn't change though, is the screams from people who think it is someone elses responsibility to feed them. Seems like they never actually grow up.
    Anonymous
    21st Sep 2014
    4:29pm
    Please change your name from NSY to something more appropriate like No Common Sense.
    The figures I quoted are from the Melbourne Uni School of Applied Economics
    https://melbourneinstitute.com/miaesr/publications/indicators/poverty-lines-australia.html

    And please get it through your thick head - we are discussing the POVERTY LINE -

    So what has the need to buy a car or private health insurance got to do with it
    Your greed knows no bounds
    The Pension is a safety net - for those who did not or could not save for retirement.
    It was not meant for greedy or lazy selfish folk who spent like drunken sailors and put their hand out for more more more from hardworking taxpayers.
    For folks like you NCS - no amount of handouts will suffice.
    nan
    19th Sep 2014
    9:59am
    Six out of Australia’s eight states and territories are currently experiencing a man drought, according to McCrindle Research — and there are almost 100,000 more women than men.
    And that's just the general population as a whole. Then take into consideration men tend not to live as long as women.
    Adrianus
    19th Sep 2014
    11:01am
    I agree nan.
    The situation was that dire in Mt Isa a few years ago, where the men outnumbered the women 7 to 1, the Mayor advertised for all ugly women who were having trouble finding a date. His argument was that all women could find love in Mt Isa with those sorts of odds working in their favour.
    There ARE 100,000 more women than men Australia wide but they are all 65 or over and in higher proportion on the east coast in the big population areas.
    Adrianus
    19th Sep 2014
    11:03am
    By the way, that was the Mayor's description. I don't think any women are ugly. In my mind all women are beautiful in differing ways and some more so than others.
    nan
    19th Sep 2014
    11:07am
    Frank, I presume the add failed. And a few years ago there would have been less men because so many were killed in the wars.
    Adrianus
    21st Sep 2014
    8:09am
    nan, it may have worked because there are now approximately 48% females? Although the population has declined by around 30%, perhaps mostly males leaving town?
    particolor
    21st Sep 2014
    10:32am
    Yes they left town because they couldn't work for Chinese Wages ! And any wonder Women live Longer ! The men couldn't take getting told they were Wrong, every time they opened their mouths' !!
    Anonymous
    21st Sep 2014
    4:49pm
    Particolor I hear you man.
    At least you are now rid of her and can live peacefully on a nice pension
    particolor
    21st Sep 2014
    5:02pm
    I'm happy on My Pension !! :-) Too Bad If I Wasn't !!....
    Peasants Breast tonight !
    particolor
    21st Sep 2014
    5:03pm
    ERR ! Pheasants..,.
    Anonymous
    21st Sep 2014
    5:09pm
    As I said to NCS up above, no one has the right to complain about our pension. It's one of the best in the developed world. In fact I believe it's ranked in the top 5.
    But the greedy welfare bludgers just want more.
    particolor
    21st Sep 2014
    5:12pm
    And Spend it on Dope !! They cut My Garden Hose again last night for a Bong Pipe !! GRRRRR !!
    Anonymous
    21st Sep 2014
    5:24pm
    And you can afford to water your garden on a pension.
    Bloody generous our pension.
    That means you could grow your own veggies and save even more.
    Pixapid claimed he saves 600 a month on a single pension.
    So anyone who can't survive on a pension is either stupid or lying or both
    Adrianus
    21st Sep 2014
    6:15pm
    Spending it on dope are we? I am hoping to get some now that Tony Abbott has given the all clear. I thought I would die and never get any. We don't need more tests, we just need the good cannabis.
    particolor
    21st Sep 2014
    6:49pm
    PIX is handling the Truth Carelessly, and It was the Dept. of Housings Hose I was just the Caretaker Who Didn't !! What Me worry !!...They left 4 hoses here 2 years back for Me to water the New Lawns !! 2 Left now of any length !!.. (But many Pipes have been enjoyed by the Ingrates they house here !! And I could make a fortune on Beer Bottles they toss about !!..) PS. its also their (Housings) water !!.
    particolor
    21st Sep 2014
    6:57pm
    Frank.. Not Me !! Its the Halfwits they are Housing here now !! I would give them Food Tickets and NO DOLE !! No Luxury Items Printed on them too !!.. They don't pay their Rent nor Electricity Bill and still manage to stay here for about 8 months or so, before they are Evicted ??
    What's Discrimination ????.. I couldn't do that !!
    particolor
    21st Sep 2014
    6:59pm
    And Yes I'm still on subject !! 3 out of 4 of them are WOMEN !!..Shock Horror !!
    Anonymous
    21st Sep 2014
    7:29pm
    So how is it these poor folk living BELOW THE POVERTY LINE can spend money on booze, dope, stick a rubber hose up their nose and still live happy.
    Perhaps the whinging pensioners should take home economics lessons from these guys.
    You listening Not Senile Yet ???
    particolor
    21st Sep 2014
    8:04pm
    Their Dole doesn't last long from what I see ! But they have Stacks of Backups that seem to get paid on any other day ?? They don't buy Petrol they use Mine !! Well they used to till the water got them !!.. They seem to live on the Occasional takeaway ,and toss the leftovers and scraps anywhere they feel like !!.It was Hell here for a while but there is only one Azzwipe left now ! and she has gone very quiet ?? I think She got a lecture from the Commandant !! She called the New Bloke here something Unprintable the other day and He went right off !! About time we got some tough Newbies here !!
    Adrianus
    21st Sep 2014
    8:47pm
    I just want to know where they are getting their cannabis and why I cant get it from my Doctor? If Abbott says he doesn't have a problem with it why do the States? Legalise medicinal cannabis now! Stop the pain and suffering.
    Anonymous
    21st Sep 2014
    8:53pm
    Frank - what pain and suffering do you suffer from other than Acute Income Deficiency and the need to get high
    Adrianus
    21st Sep 2014
    8:53pm
    particolor, you shouldn't be complaining, in your town you have only 400 more women. I live on the east coast and the sex ratio is 1/1.24.
    particolor
    22nd Sep 2014
    8:08am
    Frank These Creatures are Not Women !!!!! They are AMAZONS !! And not from Venus !!..
    And what they Use is NOT MEDICINAL GRASS !! Plus other Backyard Laboratory STUFF ?? I think the XXXX is legit and the W I N E !!..I'll send them down to You for a Lost Weekend !!
    Frugal Travels
    22nd Sep 2014
    8:13pm
    I have a suggestion for women in good health and a small retirement. They can live in Nepal for a while and enjoy their life for a bit on a shoestring. The entire monthly budget can be below $600. Anyone can check out Ye Ole Bitches Retreat Center in Changunarayan or similar such place. The weather is fairly mild, but a bit crisp in the mornings and there are many adventures to be had before the rocking chair. But truly, expatriating is a great way to enjoy a portion of our golden years.
    Anonymous
    22nd Sep 2014
    10:25pm
    Love the henna design

    Any similar spot for Ye Olde Men or Couples ?
    particolor
    23rd Sep 2014
    8:47am
    Pack Your Thermal Undies !!
    Anonymous
    23rd Sep 2014
    2:33pm
    Dont wear undies
    particolor
    23rd Sep 2014
    2:56pm
    Ease of Access Ramps at all Venues ??
    Anonymous
    23rd Sep 2014
    7:43pm
    Great suggestion for the ladies Frugal Travels..the men and couples can find cheap holidays in Thailand..even retire there..apparently they can live like kings and queens on the pension and Pattaya is just a step away!!
    Anna
    23rd Sep 2014
    8:21pm
    Perhaps I am a bit late and I have only read the first few comments. I am one of those older women. I did not enter the workforce till mid forties, had 2 kids to educate on my own due to divorce. With no help I managed. However I have had to work after retirement age to build up some sort of saving. It is doable. However I find as a female, I need more expensive help with concreting, carpentry etc. which is a lot more expensive than a male has to pay for ironing or cleaning. I am not capable of doing this heavy work. Hence my dollar has to stretch a lot further. Perhaps this is why female finds it harder to live on a single pension?
    nan
    23rd Sep 2014
    8:29pm
    Anna. You are so right, to some extent. My husband could do all those things once but now his health (and age) won't let him so we are dependent on having to pay someone. And I might add they never seem to do the job as good as my husband would have done.
    Frugal Travels
    24th Sep 2014
    11:40am
    It's the same all over the world. Retirement is a situation whereby you need to live on have of what never was enough in the first place. I solved this dilemma by moving to Nepal. I love it here and it's well within my budget. Not only that, but I am able to support the economy by hiring local people.

    This can be a huge solution for many lower income retirees. Anyone interested in making Nepal a home for awhile, I am always happy to help if anyone needs a few words of encouragement. It isn't always easy, but I've never regretted my decision to leave the West-at least for a few years.


    Join YOURLifeChoices, it’s free

    • Receive our daily enewsletter
    • Enter competitions
    • Comment on articles