15th Nov 2012
Secret confessions
Author: Kaye Fallick

The decision by the Federal Government to set in motion a Royal Commission into allegations of sexual abuse of children has made headlines around the country. As we reported on Tuesday, for the first time in the life of this Parliament, there exists bi-partisan agreement on the necessity for such a wide-ranging investigation. But as the Government approaches the really difficult task of setting the terms for this Royal Commission and choosing the commissioner(s), another issue has arisen. And that is whether the confessional seal of the Catholic Church should be observed, or whether Catholic priests should be forced to report the details of crimes against children, that they have heard during confessional.

Other professions, including doctors and teachers, are subject to mandatory reporting rules. Parents who smack a child in a doctor’s waiting room must be reported by the receptionist who witnesses this. Evidence of parental abuse of a pupil must be reported by their teacher. So the question has been raised whether the confessional can continue to remain a confidential sanctuary where the admission of child abuse is met with an assurance of privacy. Sydney Archbishop George Pell maintains that the seal of the confession is ‘inviolable’.

Attorney-General Nicola Roxon disagrees, describing as ‘abhorrent’ the notion that priests are not required to report this information to the police. Opposition Leader Tony Abbott and his fellow Liberal Party frontbencher Christopher Pyne, both Catholics, agree that the law should take precedence over church practices in this matter.

Listen to the Attorney-General's comments 

 

Shameful secrets must be exposed

We have been warned that this commission will run for years before it has heard the evidence and completed a report into the sexual abuse of children across a range of institutions, over a period of decades. That makes a lot of sense, given the Irish experience where that country’s commission into child abuse, led by Justice Sean Ryan, took nine years to deliver its report, described by the UK Guardian newspaper as the ‘stuff of nightmares’. The Ryan Report found that the Catholic Church had consistently protected its orders with a "culture of self-serving secrecy".

So here we have the issue of secrecy. It has taken far too long to get to the point where a Royal Commission has been called, but better late than never. Now is the opportunity to support those children – many now adults – who suffered at the hands of adults in authority, whether that authority was that of the church, a school or another institution. The law in Australia states that such abuse is illegal and needs to be reported in order to be investigated. Wrongdoers must be charged and, if found guilty, convicted. Since when should any institution be above the law? When Cardinal George Pell states that the confessional is ‘inviolable’ he is automatically placing the ritual of the church above the rights of children and, potentially, the law. This is morally and legally wrong. If we want the Royal Commission to have the scope and success it deserves, it is imperative that those who, in the confessional, admit to child abuse must be reported immediately. Let’s not delude ourselves, this abuse isn't confined to the past. It is still happening today and, for the sake of children whose lives are being ruined, it must be stopped, once and for all.

Should the Catholic Church report illegal activity, such as child abuse, heard during confession to the police?
Yes
No
 




    COMMENTS

    To make a comment, please register or login
    aquatrek
    15th Nov 2012
    1:13pm
    It will run for years attempting to defeat centuries of abuse of power by a relatively few rotten apples [please dont mention the Inquisition or the Crusades or political cabals or suicidal sects etc.]
    Rod63
    15th Nov 2012
    1:38pm
    Cardinal Pell is a dinosaur and embarassment to the RC church. I think his position has now become untenable and he should retire, resign or relinquish or whatever is necessary to go.
    normie 39
    15th Nov 2012
    7:00pm
    I agree that Cardinal Pell is out of touch with current situations, but he is bound by 2000 years of RC laws which forbid revealing any breach of confidence in the confessional.
    Normie39
    FrankC
    16th Nov 2012
    9:34pm
    I absolutely agree with you Rod. In the survey regarding reporting what the priest heard in the confessional, the 17% must be dyed in the wool Roman catholics. If a priest knew that your child was being, or had been sexually abused, and he hid the fact from the law, how would you feel about that, knowing that perpetrator was still among your children. Get real mate. If you are a christian, and you seem to support the archaic 'rules', how do you think Jesus Christ would feel about that, mind you the Roman Catholic church already has a reputation, what with popes in the past fathering bastard children, and is really no part of Christ's kingdom on earth. See Revelation.
    aquatrek
    16th Nov 2012
    9:41pm
    I think I just had one .
    23jaju
    15th Nov 2012
    1:50pm
    I am absolutely ashamed of the priests and clery in my Church that have perpertrated these attrocities on innocent children over many years, but I do not believe the seal of silence for the Sacrament of Confession can be broken.
    People that commit these crimes would very rarely confess I should imagine, and if they did the priest would counsel them and I am sure advise them strongly to come clean to the authorities. They could then try and persuade them to talk about it to their superiors, who could then report the abuse to the police. The Seal of Confession is something that should never, ever be broken under any circumstances, and if it is ordered in this Commission, I would expect the priests involved to go to jail rather than comply.
    Rod63
    15th Nov 2012
    3:20pm
    You are right that rarely would a paedophile priest confess, but what if it was a victim? That is who George Robinson was talking about. If a child said they had been abused, surely then the priest would need to report it. As has been said, a mediaeval canon law cannot take precedence over the law of the land.
    AmandaR
    15th Nov 2012
    5:33pm
    That is a good point Rod63. Where is the duty of care in the confessional? Protectionism only protects the predators.
    evilmonk
    22nd Nov 2012
    10:02am
    ok - yep i'm happy with that - any priest that fails to report instances of child abuse that are reported to them in the confessional are sent to jail - with any luck they'll be abused themselves while in jail. Wait till the prisoners hear they've protected a child abuser....
    How can they claim to be doing the work of god then fail to protect the children?
    The confessional is a joke and a sham. There is no forgiveness for child abuse. Child abusers are not human and therefore do not deserve to receive the protection of the church.
    Jen
    15th Nov 2012
    1:51pm
    Not just what they hear in the Confessional, but when they speak amongst themselves. Too many times, Bishops heard the confession of a paedophile priest and kept it secret. For too long the Catholic church has considered it above the law. And since the Police did little to nothing when these crimes were reported, the fact is, they WERE above the law. This has to change.
    aquatrek
    15th Nov 2012
    2:16pm
    To add more emphasis the religious bodies world wide still strongly consider themselves the LAW. Just ask the pope about contraception. The accusations go beyond the 'seal of confession' because some alleged perpetrators have been kept from the social law enforcement agencies by senior church officials - Pell amongst them. Oz as a nation sure does try to break/adjust the mould/model at times !!
    Michael
    15th Nov 2012
    2:30pm
    Church organisations that are considered above the law only affect the members of that organisation, not the general public. However there should be no organisation religious or otherwise that is above civil law.
    aquatrek
    15th Nov 2012
    2:38pm
    Michael: ya lost me a bit there with the first sentence. Your 2nd part is why Oz is supposed to either have or striving for secular layers of governance. Yet the Abbots of the world [no pun intended] interfere with community decisions like women's health drugs [although he personally is supposedly a figurehead/leader for a political party that agrees holistically on such matters]
    23jaju
    15th Nov 2012
    1:56pm
    How would anyone know whether a paedophile confessed? That is the whole point - the Seal of Confession is just that - no Bishop or priest would talk about it among themselves!!!
    normie 39
    15th Nov 2012
    7:04pm
    Does this mean that a priest has to ask all his confessional parishioners their name address and personal details after hearing their confession?

    normie39
    Jen
    15th Nov 2012
    2:26pm
    Regarding confessions of priests to each other/their Bishops, they did, 23jaju. I know of at least one occasion that was reported on. The priest in question was moved to a Parish in Armidale where he remains, free as a bird. It wasn't the first time he was moved on, but not reported to Police. It's gobsmacking. It's middle ages stuff.
    23jaju
    15th Nov 2012
    3:10pm
    That is a problem of course and that is what will come out in this Royal Commission, that Bishops knew about their paedophile priests and just moved them on, and did not report them, but as I still re-iterate who said they were told this in Confession - because unless the perpertrator told someone outside the confessional "I told this in Confession to Father so and so - no priest or Bishop would report it. I The knowing about the atrocities outside the confessional and covering them up is this massive scandal that has engulfed the Catholic Church worldwide and needs to be attended too and congratulations to Australia for setting this Royal Commission.
    Angel
    15th Nov 2012
    2:29pm
    In my opinion, Pell should be in jail along with those filthy priests, is it not our duty to protect children how can we allow these evil creatures to hide behind their archaic church laws, where are the children's rights? comon we have to act AT LAST!
    Angel
    15th Nov 2012
    2:33pm
    Oh Jen, I have heard about this priest, in my opinion it was Pell who covered up and moved this vermin on to Armidale, yes. I agree it is middle ages stuff and its time we moved on and I hope the RC church is ruined over this evil, I believe the RC church is an evil institution, only out for power and money.
    aquatrek
    15th Nov 2012
    2:40pm
    gee - that's a bit harsh there Angel [no pun intended hehe]
    Taskid
    15th Nov 2012
    3:21pm
    I must admit as a person who is a follower of Jesus, (Christian) I find all these religious denominational rules, regulations and secrecy quite foreign.

    Wikipedia Had this as the history of the seal of the confessional made originally in the 1100's - long after Jesus' death and resurrection:"

    "Gratian, who compiled the edicts of previous Catholic Ecumenical Councils and the principles of Church law, published the Decretum about 1151. It includes the following declaration of the law as to the seal of confession: "Let the priest who dares to make known the sins of his penitent be deposed." Gratian goes on to say that the violator of this law should be made a lifelong, ignominious wanderer.(Secunda pars, dist. VI, c. II)"

    I can see no Biblical reason to keep any crime secret from the law of the land. Least of all a crime against a child. What about murder?

    Sounds very complicated and unnecessarily restrictive. The Christians is called to repent, that is to turn away from sin. Most Christians confess their sins to God the Father through Jesus - or to another Christian brother or sister. No mention of confession to a priest at all in the Bible. No mention of concealing a crime. Think it must be a man-made rule.
    smithjj
    15th Nov 2012
    6:19pm
    All these religious rules are man-made.
    kianga0
    15th Nov 2012
    3:35pm
    Perhaps confessions made in the confessional were declared "sacrosanct" expressly to protect the perpetrators of these crimes Guess who makes such a declaration - the Pope of course.

    sacrosanct (?sækr???sæ?kt)

    — adj very sacred or holy; inviolable

    [C17: from Latin sacr?sanctus made holy by sacred rite, from sacr? by sacred rite, from sacer holy + sanctus, from sanc?re to hallow]

    It is high time this decadent practice was declared as being contrary to law and ethics.
    JJ
    15th Nov 2012
    3:52pm
    I have never had much time for the higher orders of the Catholic Church, including George Pell. They are quite removed from reality, and consider themselves far above the law as well as above us mere mortals. The welfare of children must come long before the ancient and ridiculous rules laid down by autocrats in bygone ages, and upheld by superstitious followers of what is the nearest thing to a cult. I feel genuinely sorry for all the good people who truly believe all religious propaganda.

    And do you truly believe that abuse of children is ever going to be eliminated? With weak-kneed attitudes displayed by Pell and others, organisations such as the church will continue to harbour deviates in their midst. It must be up to parents to shield their children from predators who exist in churches, schools, youth organisations and families.
    Kaye Fallick
    15th Nov 2012
    4:01pm
    Great comment JJ - but i think we do try to shield our children from harm - unfortunately we cannot be there 24 hours a day to do so. In which case it is important we can trust those they are with - and why police checks have come into existence?
    JJ
    16th Nov 2012
    6:18pm
    Yes, this is the case. So it is very important that children are educated as to what is appropriate behavior toward them, and to be assured that it will be safe to tell the parent about anything that is felt to be wrong. One effective way that offenders ensure silence is by threatening that the child, his family, or he himself will be harmed if the "secret" is not kept. Children need to know that this is an empty threat!
    Drew
    15th Nov 2012
    5:45pm
    I can see why there has been a push for Catholic Priests to be forced to report crimes, but if this was the case, then the person responsible for committing the crimes would not be confessing in the first place.

    We all have regrets we have to live with in life and how far would this law go? Would my local priest be forced to report me to the police for confessing the theft of a mars bar from my local shop at age 10?

    I suspect if this was to be taken all the way, wire tapping the confessional booths would be the smarter move.
    aquatrek
    15th Nov 2012
    5:50pm
    Yep - your on the money there as that is what Conroy wants anyway - add a video surveillance camera to the confessional and all bases are covered to protect the priesthood - just as well though that he has lost impetus dont you think ?
    aquatrek
    15th Nov 2012
    5:54pm
    Stretch that to all law processes such as the illegal backdating of Powers of Attorney and many would go straight past Go to Jail - wouldnt they now ? [unless they had a Get Out of Jail Card like an Office of Fair Trading judge seat !!]. I must stop .....
    normie 39
    15th Nov 2012
    7:10pm
    So if I have stolen a vast amount of money from my employer would I have to tell my priest during confession and give him my name and address? I don't think so.

    normie39
    aquatrek
    15th Nov 2012
    7:24pm
    What sort of good Catholic would you be if you didnt confess ?
    Straight to the firey pits with Hitler etc as Scrabble partners for you when you go.
    EELS
    15th Nov 2012
    5:51pm
    I am afraid George Pell just doesn't get it.
    rtrish
    18th Nov 2012
    10:16am
    Absolutely 100% agree on this, Eels.
    Anonymous
    18th Nov 2012
    10:52am
    It may very well be the case that..... George Pell ...'does get it' ... when the truth comes out...if you know what I mean ?
    Sylvia
    15th Nov 2012
    8:39pm
    All religions make laws to control the people, with fear, and most of these laws were put down to suit the powers of the churches. I do not believe they are the law of God, God would want us to care for and love his people. What has destroyed so many innocent childrens lives and is condoned by the Church to keep the status Quo is abhorant and anyone who has knowledge of these acts and keeps them secret is as much to blame as the perpetrator, when a confession is made then of course it must be reported,where is compassion for the child?
    I feel sick to think that this could be kept quiet , for Gods sake what about the child!
    Thou shalt not take the name of God in vain, so many things are done as being the will of Gods, but they are perpetrated by man.
    Taskid
    15th Nov 2012
    10:00pm
    One of the things that I find difficult, is the constant reference to "the church" - Roman Catholocism is not "the" Church - it is but a denomination. The Church is those people God recognises as His and not who man decides. Man judges the actions, God judges the heart (inner being). No one fools Him.

    The real Church is the body of true followers of Jesus, they are found in many denominations along with pretenders and in house groups, or anywhere God has put them, they are not just in any one denomination. Any denomination or cult which proclaims itself to be the "real church" is deceitful at its heart.

    Denominations which allow and cover up crimes are not following Jesus - no matter what they call themselves or how impressive they may appear to man. God is not a man that He is impressed by full coffers, religious rituals or huge buildings. He is building a body of believers - all over the world.
    aquatrek
    15th Nov 2012
    10:16pm
    oh - I was worried about that delivery of used harps and violins but I see that you got them ok - I am relieved.

    16th Nov 2012
    1:41am
    The hierarchy of the Catholic Church can't be and with a Royal Commision in place won't be allowed to continue to protect the criminals and be a law unto themselves. It would be wrong to demonise all clergy (& nuns where applicable) in all denominations. The majority are profoundly devout and caring, whichever church they belong to, and must be as horrified at the revelations coming out as are the rest of us , elderly Italians for instance whose lives have centred on their Church must be devastated. It is also not only the Catholic Church, I know of 1 Uniting Church and 2 (so called) Born Again Christians who have fled overseas.

    Police Checks - Kaye as you mentioned all Institutes insist on them so that known paedophiles on the Federal Register won't get a clearance for institutional work. I myself have 2 as my original work one was more than a month old when I volunteered teaching English to refugees so institutes are pretty much on the ball. Do they give a false sense of Security though e.g. Mr unknown paedophile opening up his sweet shop or setting himself up as a non-institute associated "preacher" would not be required to have one and then has immediate access to children. The only real answer is awareness and parental vigilance.
    Grateful
    16th Nov 2012
    9:50am
    Those vile child abusers are chronic repeat offenders and I agree with previous comments that I wouldn't imagine that those perpetrators would even confess their "sins". To knowingly and willingly continue to commit those sins, which they do, clearly indicates that there is no remore or admission of "guilt". Those people are criminals and know it. They would not even bother stating that to one of their brother priests. They are NOT "sorry" for having "sinned." They don't believe that they have "sinned".
    You go to confession to seek forgiveness. If you have no intention of changing your behaviour and don't believe that you have "sinned" in any case, it would be absolutely pointless admitting your behaviour to one of your brother priests and expecting forgiveness. Makes no sense at all.
    The priest in the confessional is not a "witness" he is an "agent" the "deal" in the confessional is between the confessor and the one who gives forgiveness and that from tradition in the Catholic Church is God. So why drag the poor "agent" through the disgraceful mess ?
    Like dragging an innocent J.P. through a Court case where the Statutory Declaration that he/she witnesses later is proved to be false. The J.P. only witnesses the declaration, he/she is not a party to it. The same as the confessional.
    aquatrek
    16th Nov 2012
    4:10pm
    If you [witness] was told by a friend that they had murdered someone or had molested a child what would be your 'duty' to society - just claim that you didnt report the matter because you were an 'agent' ?
    Rod63
    16th Nov 2012
    10:45pm
    Spot on aquatrek.
    JJ
    18th Nov 2012
    12:53pm
    The law states that if you know a crime has been committed, and do not report it, then you are guilty of being an accessory after the fact, and as such you are culpable to being charged yourself.
    aquatrek
    18th Nov 2012
    1:58pm
    ah ha - a separate religious prison !!
    lets say in Vatican City and they can be returned with the next lot of fake refugees !!
    Grateful
    19th Nov 2012
    9:40pm
    It takes courage to admit you are wrong and seek forgiveness. I bet that none of those paedophile priests has any guts whatsoever and be most surprised if they ever admitted it to one of their brother priests. If they did, received forgiveness but continued to offend, then the whole confession "sacrament" is a blatant hypocritical farce. Be interesting to see what comes out of the Royal Commission.
    grumpygran
    16th Nov 2012
    12:00pm
    Pell has always hidden the dark past of these criminals - anyone seen the site Broken Rites, detailing the unbelievable abuse carried out by Ridsdale (who eventually was jailed for 18 years after arriving at court with Pell in his priestly garb). It shocked the nation back in the 90's and 2006 when his sentence was increased again as more of the abused came forward. He's due for release in 2013 but I for one believe he should stay there and rot in hell in time to come!
    toot2000
    16th Nov 2012
    2:33pm
    Victims have been asked to contact police because the Royal Commission will not have the power to prosecute child offenders. They are now searching for a commissioner, or possibly more than one person, to fill this long awaited role. Pell was, and still may be, a serious contender for becoming the next pope.
    Rod63
    16th Nov 2012
    10:46pm
    Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

    17th Nov 2012
    1:28pm
    The Bible does not teach a confessional like the Roman Catholic Church has...with it's secret society type set up. If someone confesses a sin to another person and it is sufficient in regards to having committed a crime, then the person hearing should take the confessor with them to the police, so that they can confess to them.

    If a Christian suffers for righteousness sake then that is a blessing, but we are not to suffer as an evildoer..... the authorities are there to bring evildoers to justice...and secret confessionals have no part in that..they have no Biblical basis, the truth must always be told. Paedophiles are not Christians anyway...it is great wickedness.
    Taskid
    17th Nov 2012
    1:33pm
    Totally agree PIXAPD

    17th Nov 2012
    1:39pm
    As regards children; Yeshua said to his disciples, 'It is impossible that snares will not be set, but woe to that person who sets them. It would be to his advantage that he have a millstone hung around his neck and that he be thrown into the sea, rather then that he ensnare one of these little ones.'

    I therefore encourage any children who are being molested by family members, pastor, police, priest, teacher or any other; that you be not afraid to, dob them in to the authorities, who are there to bring these evildoers to justice.

    DOB IN A PAEDOPHILE

    Obey the Lord and wear a smile;

    Dob in a filthy paedophile.

    Be real quick do not delay;

    Dob in a paedophile today.

    Obey the Lord have peace the while;

    Dob in that wicked paedophile !

    17th Nov 2012
    1:49pm
    I was NOT surprised when Cardinal Pell said that the confessional was NOT the be revealed by the priest who heard the confession.
    Oh course this is the same Cardinal Pell who appeared this year on national television on the ABC Q&A show and said that 'atheists go to heaven' and that 'the garden of Eden story is a myth'

    Yet the Apostle Paul tells us that by the disobedience of the first Adam death came upon man, and that by the obedience of the last Adam (the Lord Yeshua/Jesus) came life.

    Seems the good Cardinal does not know his New Testament epistles very well...nor the gospel for that matter

    17th Nov 2012
    2:30pm
    The Pope being the Sovereign pontiff, or Pontifex Maximus, title of Caesar and from the Egyptian college of pontiffs; will never agree to the 'seal' of the confessional being broken, for the confessional keeps the minds, souls and spirits of men and women in bondage and in fear, never teaching true repentance from sin, but allowing the devotees of Romanism to heap sin upon sin.

    Yet did the Apostle ask...' Shall we sin that grace abound ?.... GOD FORBID'
    Taskid
    17th Nov 2012
    5:43pm
    Amen PIXAPD. It is nice to see the Hebrew name for Jesus - Yeshua - used it is so lovely. Do you speak Hebrew?
    aquatrek
    17th Nov 2012
    5:51pm
    Why dont you two go and practice self gratification harp or violin playing elsewhere ?

    18th Nov 2012
    9:43am
    Rome turns out paedophiles like Ford turns out cars

    18th Nov 2012
    3:54pm
    The Tribunal of the Holy Office of the Inquisition, bring back the Jesuits, they're good at such matters, a hot poker here or there.....soon find out who the paedophiles are. The Jesuits are not Christians so they have no qualms torturing folk.

    The point being , I am not suggesting such things; but that Rome is not Christian either, torture and murder has long been their game, the murder of saints.

    19th Nov 2012
    12:43pm
    The Irish have already had a huge inquiry into child abuse, mostly centred on the Catholic Church - because the Catholic Church in Ireland is the major force in their religion, their hospitals, their orphanages, and their welfare organisations.
    This inquiry commenced in April 2000 with the introduction of a special Act, and concluded in 2009. This inquiry was called the Ryan Report, as it was led by Justice Ryan.

    The inquiry uncovered vast amounts of child sexual abuse, particularly in Catholic orphanages - and a continuing pattern of protection for paedophile priests by the heirarchy in the Catholic Church.

    This pattern followed the principle that the protection of the institution and the power of the Catholic Church, was more important than the exposure and punishment of paedophiles within the Catholic Church.

    Many paedophile priests were just moved. Some were retired to other positions and paid compensation by the Church. At no time did the Catholic Church offer any assistance, counselling, or financial recompense to the victims of paedophile priests.

    Thus, the actions of the heirarchy show up the Catholic Church for what it is. It is not a Christian organisation, nor does it dispense true Christian compassion and love.
    It is an authoratorian regime, intent on holding and maintaining a position of power over people and society.
    It is prepared to hide criminal activity within its walls, in this constant aim. It considers those within the organisation of the Catholic Church, as being above the laws of the countries where it operates.

    Accordingly, the seal of the confessional is nothing more than another tool in the armoury of the Catholic Church to ensure it retains power over the Churches adherents.
    There is no instruction in the Bible that states secretive confessional power is given to priests.
    The Bible merely states that Christians are to confess their sins "to each other" (i.e. to other Christians), so that they can seek social support and unburden themselves.

    In every popular poll I have seen on numerous websites, there is absolutely overwhelming support for the confessional seal to be broken in the case of serious crimes. The support ranges from 67% to 86%.

    In Dublin, such is the disgust of the populace with the Catholic Churches invidious behaviour, that Church attendance and following has dropped from 90% to 20%.

    Such is the moral bankruptcy of the Catholic Church, that the heirarchy in this regime could not, and still cannot understand, how their protective stance towards paedophiles goes directly against the grain of what the Church preaches, and how that stance has cost the Catholic Church dearly in numbers of followers.

    Cardinal Pell is part of the Church hierarchy that has assisted in the hiding of sexual abuse of children within the Church, and the protection of the abusers. He is a morally bankrupt leader who has no place in making pronouncements about morality to others.
    Anonymous
    19th Nov 2012
    1:38pm
    The truth is that the Roman Catholic Church is not and never has been 'CHRISTIAN' it totally heathen in teachings and practice, and has nothing to do with the Roman congregation that the Apostle Paul wrote to. The whole structure needs to be torn down for it is a stench unto God....and a stink around the Earth

    I discern that Cardinal Pell is involved much deeper than is known, and that in protecting abusers he is also covering his back; the whole tree is rotten even up the the Pope himself.

    19th Nov 2012
    1:41pm
    THE BELIEVER NEEDS NOT.. CANDLES, ICONS, BEADS, MONKS, INCENSE, PRIESTS, STATUES, ROBES, MITRES, BELLS, MASS, POPES, NUNS, RELICS, SUN DISCS, RED LIGHTS, WAFERS, ROSARY, ALTARS, MARY, SACRED HEART, NOVENAS, PURGATORY, CONFESSIONS, HOLY WATER, CROSSES, INFANT BAPTISM, DECORATED TREES, CORPSES ON DISPLAY, HEATHEN LENT, CHRISTMAS OR EASTER, ROMAN NEW YEAR, TRINITY, CELIBACY, ETC.
    aquatrek
    19th Nov 2012
    2:46pm
    tut tut tut - you just broke the strings of your harp and violin in an outpouring ranting burst of religious zeal - repent forwith - how am I to find such beautiful delicate instruments made of steel so that your angers cannot harm them ?
    Taskid
    19th Nov 2012
    10:04pm
    Yes that is right PIXAPD - all that stuff is "religion" to me. I don't need anything between Jesus and I, but my acceptance that He is the Lord.

    19th Nov 2012
    3:47pm
    FOR ME

    I was standing in a crowd one day
    And there was such a din,
    Everyone was crying out -
    'Away, and crucify him !'

    I asked of one standing near
    What means this their screaming ?
    He told me that the one on trial
    Was guilty of blaspheming

    How, I asked is this
    What is it he has done ?
    The other one replied;
    Said that, he was God's own Son.

    And as I then beheld this man
    Who had been scourged and blamed
    I could not tell just what it was
    But, I felt so ashamed.

    For I could see within his eyes
    As he looked back at me,
    One who was a loving friend
    He was no enemy.

    And on the hill called Calvary
    Outside that city gate,
    They nailed him to his heavy stake
    Then they reviled with hate.

    Now as I neared his dying form
    I saw the blood-soaked ground
    I cried, I fell down at his feet
    My Saviour I had found.

    For into his eyes again I'd looked
    And this time I did see,
    He had no need to say one word -
    'Cause he was there For Me.
    aquatrek
    19th Nov 2012
    3:50pm
    that look in his eyes was for one last ciggy and an icecold XXXX

    19th Nov 2012
    4:34pm
    PIXAPD - In your religious zealot fervour, I think you've quickly lost sight of the question at the top of this thread.
    This is not a thread to start preaching on - it's a discussion about the Catholic Church's confessional secrecy, and whether it is sacrosanct, as the Catholic Church claims.
    Taskid
    19th Nov 2012
    10:08pm
    Aaron

    PIXAPD answered that in saying all that religious stuff has just been made up by men over centuries. None of it is in the Bible. As the poster has said, it is a long way from the Roman Church that Paul preached to. It lost the plot when it became man-made and stopped being God-made. The status of the confessional has no legitimacy outside that denomination.

    19th Nov 2012
    5:38pm
    I realise you folks are NOT Christians and I allow for that
    aquatrek
    19th Nov 2012
    6:25pm
    oh oh - an ALIEN PIXAPD !!!
    aquatrek
    19th Nov 2012
    6:51pm
    you can still be 'saved' halelujah

    http://au.tv.search.yahoo.com/search?p=Derren+Brown:+Messiah&fr=tvguide-au-ss&fr2=type&ei=UTF-8§ion=tvguide
    Taskid
    19th Nov 2012
    10:11pm
    PIXAPD There are one or two Christians in here among those who exist on mocking and scorn, bless their hearts. For many in here Christians should have no voice at all, only those who agree with them are welcome. Gotta love 'em though. :0)
    evilmonk
    22nd Nov 2012
    10:15am
    I am proud to be an atheist. I believe there is no god. After all, what kind of god would allow its assistants to rape children and get away with it.
    Taskid
    23rd Nov 2012
    4:15pm
    evilmonk

    Ask the one who pulls your strings and convinces you of the lie that their is no God. He is the same one who causes children to be raped. You have no idea whom you serve having turned from your Creator. You will find out sadly, I hope it is not too late before you do. "the fool says in his heart, there is no God."
    evilmonk
    23rd Nov 2012
    9:19pm
    Really mek? Having a mind of my own and knowing that the bible is a work of fiction made up by small minded men to control the masses and changed as it suited them does not mean that someone is pulling my strings. The invention of christmas to subdue the masses and allow them to still celebrate the summer solstice under the guise of christianity is a prime example of manipulation of the christian religion by those who placed themselves in power.
    If your god (and the small g is deliberate) was really all powerful she would be able to prevent her minions from raping children...and as the priests are following the word of their god, god must be the one who is telling them to rape children - as one rapist priest said - god made me this way....
    As a lovely intelligent child commented the other day...if jesus came back from the dead, doesn't that make him a zombie?
    Oh and if your god made mary pregnant without her permission - was she raped?
    Someone's strings are being pulled here mek - and it isn't me, and it isn't by any god - it's by power hungry small minded men who are afraid of facing reality.
    Taskid
    23rd Nov 2012
    9:33pm
    evilmonk
    No wonder that is your handle. It speaks volumes. You talk absolute nonsense. It is not worth discussing deep things with you. You skim the surface of superficial knowledge and assume you know it all. I will not answer you again.
    evilmonk
    24th Nov 2012
    8:56pm
    You know the problem with your theory about my username mek? It was supposed to be evilmonkey but i got distracted by the kids and pressed enter too soon...but of course to you it could only have a religious basis...

    but, of course, as you've promised to not answer me again (oh happy happy days) you won't have a response to that one...
    aquatrek
    24th Nov 2012
    9:08pm
    merry christmyth
    Twila
    19th Nov 2012
    10:10pm
    I should think that absolution for the sin of child abuse (a mortal sin in anyone's books) would be, indeed should be, that the 'sinner' admit his crime to the police. I understand that absolution for theft is generally dependent upon restitution. I have no doubt that absolution for certain offences carries caveats. There is no blank cheque.

    When priests confess, is it necessary for them to receive this sacrament from someone they know? I'm sure that some people would seek anomnity, by going to a priest who does not know them.
    Taskid
    19th Nov 2012
    10:14pm
    For me men cannot "absolve" sin at all, nor can their religious activity. The Christian confesses to the Lord who died to cleanse us of those sins, if we come to Him in truth and humility. He is not impressed by all this man-made religious stuff.

    True Christians do not need all that stuff. Must be hard to be a Christian and be in the RC denomination I think.
    Twila
    19th Nov 2012
    10:28pm
    PIXAPD

    The Catholic church is not the only demonination, or institution, which has child-molesters, and indeed protects them. Every organisation, especially those tending to the needs of children, unfortunately also attract the very basest of human beings.

    I know a fundamentalist christian group, extremely pious in their behaviour, who have drawn ranks around a child molester. The victim, now an adult woman, refuses to report him, or indeed make any waves. Many victims themselves, although traumatised, collude in this way.

    Look at families who know what is occurring, but choose to ignore it, sweeping it under the carpet. A recent report found that brothers were often a source of sexual abuse to their sisters.

    I don't think that forcing priests to disclose what they hear in the confessional would work; abusers would either not confess, or seek 'absolution' from a priest who does not know them.
    From what I understand, neither the confessor nor the confessee can see each other in the confessional.

    Also, according Catholic tenets, unless the sinner has a solid contrition, with firm resolve not to commit the sin again, there is no absolution received, even if the priest goes through the motions.
    Taskid
    19th Nov 2012
    10:37pm
    Twila

    Certainly not all pedophiles are in any one place, you are correct there. The cover up is reprehensible whenever and wherever it occurs.

    For me only Jesus can wipe away sin, no man has that authority.
    Anonymous
    20th Nov 2012
    5:43am
    I never said the Roman Catholic Church was the ONLY one....if you care to read my posts CORRECTLY you will see that I referenced ALL institutions. HOWEVER ROME is the leader in such an abomination from POPE down to the lowest point of their sewer
    Taskid
    19th Nov 2012
    10:32pm
    I think "religion" has done much damage to how Christianity is viewed - "religion" is man's interference in things of God, mainly to exalt the man, not the Lord. With it comes hypocricy, lust for power, wealth and control. These things have no part in true Christianity.

    The problem is it has become too easy for the person who wishes only to mock, to full back on criticising the man-made stuff in order to rubbish the Truth. They seem disinterested in exploring further. I guess it is a sort of laziness.
    Twila
    19th Nov 2012
    10:39pm
    MEK

    You are absolutely correct. However, the catholic sacrament of confession provides a 'sign' that a person is absolved for sin; this must be very comforting.

    I imagine that just believing, hoping that one is forgiven, must lead to much anguish. How do people know they are forgiven? How much contrition is necessary? This is all very vague.

    Signs and symbols are important in defining people's lives.
    aquatrek
    19th Nov 2012
    10:52pm
    Utter crap - that is ONLY if you really really really need signs and symbols to dictate to you what you need to run your life with - 99.9% of humans would not do to nor wish to receive from another human being anything that they could conceive within their own minds that would bring harm to themselves or to another - yet you are saying that you NEED symbols to instruct you in this - then you are not worthy of being called human.

    The religiously mentally afflicted would dearly have you BELIEVE and NEED their dogma to get through your daily life [its a power control need whatever so called faith/belief] - try the Namaste from the Hindu understandings of humans in that a 'god' is within each and every person - you are God.
    Taskid
    20th Nov 2012
    10:08am
    Twila

    I do not believe we need any "signs" - if people know their Lord and trust Him completely there is no need for any outward signs. They will know they are forgiven. The Christian lives by faith, not by outward signs, that is the way of the pagan. It can lead to idolatory as the Bible warns. When any Christian puts a person dead or alive between them and Jesus that is not biblical. Not the way of the Lord. No goood bringing comfort to a person if it is based in a lie. We know we are forgiven by faith. I know the freedom of being set free from sin - the Lord has His way of letting us know individually, we do not need signs and symbols, the pagans chase after such things. Their "gods" are not living, the God of the Christian is living and interacts with his people. Something the spiritually ignorant mind cannot comprehend. I know only too well because no one could have been more spiritually ignorant than I was. Now I know the difference, no need for any man to tell me, or to have signs and symbols.
    Twila
    19th Nov 2012
    10:52pm
    Aaron,

    I believe that a priest, or brother, who commits child abuse, should be made an example of and be excommunicated.

    In Ireland, and elsewhere where poverty is endemic, many catholic families dedicated their first-born sons and daughters to the church. When admitted to religious training, these people were only children - some as young as fourteen. Their own sexuality had not been developed. This is a recipe for disaster and undoubtedly contributed to problems of sexual abuse later on.

    The Jesuits have to complete university degrees before entering the priesthood. I wonder if there is any level of abuse from this order?
    Twila
    19th Nov 2012
    10:52pm
    Aaron,

    I believe that a priest, or brother, who commits child abuse, should be made an example of and be excommunicated.

    In Ireland, and elsewhere where poverty is endemic, many catholic families dedicated their first-born sons and daughters to the church. When admitted to religious training, these people were only children - some as young as fourteen. Their own sexuality had not been developed. This is a recipe for disaster and undoubtedly contributed to problems of sexual abuse later on.

    The Jesuits have to complete university degrees before entering the priesthood. I wonder if there is any level of abuse from this order?
    Twila
    19th Nov 2012
    11:58pm
    aquatek,

    We are surrounded by signs and symbols. From the ritual of marriage to burial. When soldiers are killed in action, funeral ritual is performed which needs satisfy the moment. From simple actions such as shaking hands, to the rituals of coronation, these all fulfill a symbolic need.
    aquatrek
    20th Nov 2012
    9:30am
    very well said - symbolism is the way that humans communicate at many levels; circumstances, behaviours, etc etc I stand severely corrected. I think you did the same uni subject haha
    My comment was aimed at the symbolic specifics of the spiritual dogma that drives the 'christian' churches: i.e. Church of England started about 600 AD, Catholic Church started about 110 AD etc etc
    Twila
    19th Nov 2012
    11:58pm
    aquatek,

    We are surrounded by signs and symbols. From the ritual of marriage to burial. When soldiers are killed in action, funeral ritual is performed which needs satisfy the moment. From simple actions such as shaking hands, to the rituals of coronation, these all fulfill a symbolic need.
    Taskid
    20th Nov 2012
    10:11am
    I think it is more a want than a need. Jesus is all we really need, He gave us the symbols that are pleasing to Him, baptism in water and the Holy Spirit and the communion. No need for other things, we may want and like them, but we do not need them to know Him.

    20th Nov 2012
    5:54am
    Many of you do not get it do you........a paedophile is NOT a Christian...no matter what 'denomination' they belong to

    The Roman confessional has no Biblical basis...except to enslave mankind

    All believers are 'priests and saints' under our high priest the Lord Yeshua, 'who after he has purged our sins has sat down at the right hand of God'......that means no purgatory either.

    Any Roman priest of the confessional who hears confession of rape, child molesting, murder etc. who does not report it, should also be sent to prison as an accessory when the matter is found out. However it is distinctly possible that the priest hearing confession is also a paedophile, thus Satan cannot cast out Satan.

    20th Nov 2012
    6:11am
    What is really needed is that on a certain night, an angel of the LORD should pass through Australia and slay every paedophile.....it will mean that the next morning 1000's of corpses shall be discovered.......but there would be no more paedophiles.

    Just as the angel of the Lord passed through Egypt on that night and humbled all the gods of Egypt. or just as the angel of the Lord slew the Assyrians by night.

    'That night the angel of the LORD went out to the Assyrian camp and killed 185,000 Assyrian soldiers. When the surviving Assyrians woke up the next morning, they found corpses everywhere.'
    Abby
    20th Nov 2012
    8:53am
    Do you feel that way about the gay people as well ?
    aquatrek
    20th Nov 2012
    11:30am
    quote "Sodomites, Catamites and Lesbians are 'worthy of death' which is taught in the Bible. unquote

    I had to look up Catamite as I wasn't sure if it had anything to do with Stalagmites and Stalactites but apparently its gone out of fashion in that it was a 'young lad' companion relationship - wait on, that's pedophilia !!

    I would watch out for these two ALIENS as they might have their ray guns turned up to full blast at the next Mardi Gras !!
    Taskid
    20th Nov 2012
    10:16am
    PIXAP
    I agree with you on most points. Problem is that the folk in here just wish to cling to unbelief, I cannot imagine what joy they get from it, some perverse joy in trying to rubbish believers I guess.

    Abby You are a perfect case in point. Throwing in "gays" which is a very different topic altogether. Are you just a troll?
    aquatrek
    20th Nov 2012
    11:13am
    typical ALIEN response: as soon as someone brings a point of opinion into the debate that doesnt sit well with your brain washed mentally insane dogma then the personal attack begins. You could just not make a reply comment if you do not think the point relevant i.e. just shut up or attempt to see what the point was about [although blog text is brief so not always easy to interpret accurately]. So, besides slaughtering all gays while happily slaughtering any who look like Assyrians in the biblical thriller novel there must be at least one gay who has been a paedophile ?

    20th Nov 2012
    10:27am
    Sodomites, Catamites and Lesbians are 'worthy of death' which is taught in the Bible. Now I am not saying they should be killed, for they need to repent.

    The Govt applauds their abominations and they even have a wicked Mardi Gras to promote their wickedness..... yet they ever remain...worthy of death
    Taskid
    20th Nov 2012
    10:44am
    PIXAPD
    Indeed, all need to repent, without repentance one cannot know God. All sin leads to death, spiritual death which the unbeliever may have no awareness of. All fall short of the glory of God - all have sinned and gone astray - God says, the wages of sin are death, not just now, but for eternity. People try to tell themselves it is not so, but God is not a liar. Satan is the father of lies (Jesus said itd not me) and he is out to kill, confuse, destroy, bring suffering and pain. He has conned the world he does not exist so they, in their igorance make fun of him. How he enjoys it when they fall into his hands. He is beaten though and along with those who wittingly or unwittingly follow him by their unbelief he will meet his fate. Jesus defeated him on the cross. But the masses prefer their own little powerless gods, their materialism, their wisdom and their sin - rather than accept the unconditional love of God. Only one way to that, Jesus said, "I am the Way the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father but through me." No popes, no Mary's no dead RC "saints" - only Jesus. Only He died for us all. Oh how the world misses it, I did for so long. Praise God for the life I have had in Him over these past decades.

    20th Nov 2012
    11:02am
    I realise the subject is 'secret confessions' as given above..........BUT it involves so much of the teachings of Roman Catholicism...it's not just their confessional but all the other errors that go with it...and their deceptions as opposed to the ...'faith once delivered to the saints' Jude 3.
    Right down to the fact that most popes and priests are not even Christian, because their very teachings contradict the Apostle's doctrine, the rosary and all the other idolatries etc etc. Cancer can spread through the body, and the body of Roman Catholicism is just one big carcinoma, and secret confessions being just one of many tumours
    Rod63
    20th Nov 2012
    11:11am
    aquatrek - where are you? we need you, quickly!!
    aquatrek
    20th Nov 2012
    11:18am
    Hi - I was off doing real life living instead of trying to 'save/convert' brain washed mentally insane ALIENS. I see that another of their clapped out spaceships has arrived carrying an ALIEN PIXAPD. Strange alien type names that they have - what an obvious givaway hehe Why dont they go for Angel1, Angel2 etc ? that would really fool us humans hehe
    Rod63
    20th Nov 2012
    11:20am
    Hehe.
    aquatrek
    20th Nov 2012
    11:34am
    you might be interested in [not that I am haha]. Probably brought in as propaganda on the ALIEN spaceships

    http://prophecies.org/DOCS/Book%2012/Chapter48.htm

    reminds me of that guy in Sydney who carried around for many many years the placard saying 'The End is Nigh - Repent'
    Taskid
    20th Nov 2012
    11:28am
    PIXAPD

    You might be interested in Petrus Romanus by Thomas Horn and Chris Putnam, available online at their site or through Amazon. It lifts the lid on the various deceptions of Roman Catholocism. Goes thoroughly back through the whole history - a heap of research. Would go over the heads of most in here, but you would understand it. I really feel sad for sincere Christians caught up in that religious system.
    aquatrek
    20th Nov 2012
    11:35am
    Did you write this ?

    http://prophecies.org/DOCS/Book%2012/Chapter48.htm
    Anonymous
    20th Nov 2012
    11:47am
    The definitive work is The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop
    aquatrek
    20th Nov 2012
    11:52am
    when the avian virus gets us all then God will be out of a job - unless you ALIENS have the antidote ? Hay, you lot are probably carrying the virus that will get us all !!
    EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE ............... bugger batteries have run out ...
    Anonymous
    20th Nov 2012
    12:05pm
    The clerical power of the Roman priesthood culminated in the erection of the confessional. That confessional was itself borrowed from Babylon. The confession required of the votaries of Rome is entirely different from the confession prescribed in the Word of God. The dictate of Scripture in regard to confession is, "Confess your faults one to another" (James 5:16), which implies that the priest should confess to the people, as well as the people to the priest, if either should sin against the other
    Taskid
    20th Nov 2012
    12:18pm
    PIAXPD Thanks I will track it down. Interestingly apparently those Christian groups who are growing more quickly are the ones where instead of just having one or two do all and everything, the laity are leading them and the gifts of all are then coming to the fore. I think in some ways the Western branch of Christianity has become too reliant on "the pastor" and not made room for all parts of the body to participate. Brother Yun (Chinese Pastor who had to flee to the West because of persecution in China) has an excellent book, Living Waters which he speaks about his impressions of the Western branches of the Church (the body of Christ) in all its denominational forms and how this so differs from the way the branch of the Church functions in China in the underground church there. The other book, The Heavenly Man written about his work and suffering in China, in prison etc is also very good.
    aquatrek
    20th Nov 2012
    12:19pm
    you are DEFINITIVELY an ALIEN piece of work [borrowed that from a human called Abbot hehe] who may have a distinct case of severe case of brain washed mental illness excentrically altered exponentially excrementally - whew
    Taskid
    20th Nov 2012
    12:25pm
    PIXAPD
    Found Two Babylons online so will read it there. I see it was finished in the 1800's - Petrus Romanus has only just been published and takes one up to the present day. You may find it compliments the other. I am sure both are well researched. The copy I bought of the latter book has disks with it, which contain all their sources and background material. I think that may only be from their site though, the Amazon one seems to just have the book.

    I am sorry about our resident troll, aquatrek. He was quite reasonable even funny till his posts got into the gutter, he is incapable of apologising apparently so I choose to ignore him. His choice, not mine. I will tolerate a certain amount, but when it gets into the gutter I draw the line.
    Taskid
    20th Nov 2012
    12:25pm
    PIXAPD
    Found Two Babylons online so will read it there. I see it was finished in the 1800's - Petrus Romanus has only just been published and takes one up to the present day. You may find it compliments the other. I am sure both are well researched. The copy I bought of the latter book has disks with it, which contain all their sources and background material. I think that may only be from their site though, the Amazon one seems to just have the book.

    I am sorry about our resident troll, aquatrek. He was quite reasonable even funny till his posts got into the gutter, he is incapable of apologising apparently so I choose to ignore him. His choice, not mine. I will tolerate a certain amount, but when it gets into the gutter I draw the line.
    aquatrek
    20th Nov 2012
    12:37pm
    I must remind you that Trolls are mystical beings with supernatural powers - so watch out !! now pick a card, any card, no not that one silly.
    Now for my next trick ................. what page was that on ? oh yes, the one where everyone gets to drink wine for a whole week but its outa just one urn !! then there's the fishy one hehe

    20th Nov 2012
    12:33pm
    I am a Christian and as such I am not of any denomination whatsoever...for there is but ONE BODY of which every believer is a member by faith.....where the same things are taught and where there is one mind and no divisions/schisms; holding fast to the Apostle's doctrine.

    However having said that...it is acknowledged that the denominations are NOT 'the' real congregation...but rather each in itself is a 'schism'....with so called 'pastors' who in the main are again not Christian.....so the apostacy goes on. That is why folks need to be able to distinguish between true and false shepherds.

    THE TRUE SHEPHERDS

    The pastor has been taken
    By two angels of the Lord;
    He has been bound in iron fetters
    Before the the flaming sword.
    How many pastors will be slain
    By the voice from Yeshua's throne ,
    How many will be called accursed
    And into darkness thrown ?

    The Day will come when Yeshua
    Shall bid his angels 'Reap'
    And they will bind those pastors
    As they have bound the sheep.
    'twill be on judgement Day
    When the Good Shepherd will call
    To sift those false shepherds out
    Who climbed in o'er the wall.

    It shall be as 'Pilgrim Christian' saw
    'twas this he did relate;
    'I saw there was a door to hell
    alongside heaven's gate.'
    So I warn you, do not listen to
    All shepherds but make a choice,
    The way to know the true ones is -
    They'll speak with Yeshua's voice.

    These will not compel the sheep
    But lead by their example;
    Nor for filthy lucre's sake;
    They wear Emmanuel's mantle !

    1 Peter 5:1-4
    aquatrek
    20th Nov 2012
    12:39pm
    awesome - you are a much worse off ALIEN than ALIEN MEK !! Now what was the blog topic again ? ..... seems to have been lost way way back there somewhere
    Taskid
    20th Nov 2012
    12:46pm
    PIXAPD

    A person after my own heart. :0) I am a Christian only. I do not "belong" to any denomination. I worship with a group which has connections to a denomination which has very few man-made "rules" or rituals. Everyone is involved in the worship service and there I can worship and be involved as the Lord leads me.

    I have Christian brothers and sisters worldwide (as well as secular friends of course). It is good to meet someone on the same wavelength. :0)
    aquatrek
    20th Nov 2012
    1:08pm
    darn so silly of me - ALIENS dont give a hoot for the blog topic nor have any respect for humankind because their excuses for brains [probably at least three like octopii] once re-blinkered and re-focussed have forgotten what a blog topic is - sad really

    20th Nov 2012
    12:58pm
    MEK

    Petrus Romanus may be shades of things like Dan Brown. Also the Pope being the anti christ seems to have it's origins in Reformation thought rather than the Early Church understanding; and clearly seen for example in translation comments as read in the Geneva Bible notes.
    I can understand such things given the condition and corruption of Rome at that time and the opposition to any translation into the common tongue. I thank God for WIlliam Tyndale who was the first to translate from the Greek to the common language 1526; for which he paid by his life...being strangled and burnt at the stake.

    As to 'the' Anti Christ...it seems fairly certain he will be from Syria and of the tribe of Dan, and able to perform such miracles that many will as Ireneaus put it 'the dupes of Satan' will be deceived, as yet no Pope has done such things. Dan has the twofold names of 'lions whelp' (same as Judah) and 'the seprent laying in the way'...which cannot be doubted to be the twofold nature of the MAN OF SIN, when he appears. first as a Son of God, then as Serpent..... revealing him as the Anti Christ...though they who will be alive in that time will recognise him at the start for whom he really is.
    Taskid
    20th Nov 2012
    1:16pm
    PAXPD

    I didn't find it so, like Dan Brown's books, I read them and they are just fiction - and I read them as that.

    This book I found anyway disclosed much of Satan's input into the history of Roman Catholocism - the corruption within the Papacy, how it was bought and sold at one time. The lie of Peter being the first Pope, the lie that his bones are under the Vatican etc etc. It exposes much based on research of papers, interviews. Also the fate that befell those who tried to disclose these truths from within the Vatican. No human book of course has ultimate truth as we both know, only God's Word, but I found it very interesting. I have lent to other Christians and they have also found it interesting.

    There is also a very interesting dvd by David Hathaway called "The Rape of Europe" which exposes much about the European Union.

    I don't know about you, but I think the prophecies of the Bible are coming to pass today right before our eyes. There is apostasy in the Churches denominations with the "emerging Church" in the USA, liberalism in denominations, anti-Christianism, anti-semitism is on the rise again - and a form of religion lacking in power. Many say "I did this and that in Your Name" (my poor paraphrasing) many claim to be "Christian" - I believe to many He will say as He warned, "Away from Me I never knew you."

    20th Nov 2012
    1:34pm
    MEK

    ONE THING IS CERTAIN.........'AQUATREK' shall perish.....lest there is repentance

    I now remove the tick from Email me when comments are made to this article

    and say MARANATHA
    aquatrek
    20th Nov 2012
    5:29pm
    perish yep - my homo sapien sapien cells will follow natures evolutionary way and shut down just like all life forms on earth do - now ALIENS may be a different kettle of who knows what - fish I dont think so because they really truly defy the natural cognitive consciousness that us normal humans have !!

    now for that repentance bit = remorse for past conduct. Ya gotta be kidding ALIENS and since when did ALIENS exhibit a sense of humour ? none observed to date as that is distinctively a planet Earth attribute for many species. Must see if we can get a cage for closer ALIEN examination - just as well that so far there are only two of them on YLC. Wonder if they breed in captivity and if so how ?
    aquatrek
    20th Nov 2012
    5:31pm
    psssssssssst - "It is so nice when two like-minded people romance online. ;-/"
    oh oh they have started some sort of ritualistic sexual union - woo hoo !!
    Taskid
    20th Nov 2012
    1:42pm
    Maranatha indeed.
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    9:40pm
    Book of Revelation 22:20 "Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!""

    "but dont stain the sheets or I will bill you 30 sheckles' said the the innkeeper.
    Twila
    20th Nov 2012
    2:10pm
    It is so nice when two like-minded people romance online. ;-/

    Whilst PIXAPD has left the building (along with his very appropriate fire truck), I found it strange that he/she/it thundered with the old testament voice, not with that of Jesus, who was said to be rather sweet.

    Christian doctrine is based primarily on Paul, along with rumours, and fables, circulating subsequent to Jesus' death. Paul never met Jesus and wrote about him many years after his death. Also Paul didn't like women.

    Two Christian groups existed. Those of the Church of Jerusalem which comprised of Jesus’ original apostles and desciples, including Mary, (Jesus’ mother), James (his brother), Peter and John. This group denied that St. Paul had been an apostle. They also taught a “Christianity” at such variance with Paul’s, that Paul himself referred to it as “another gospel” ... “another Jesus”, particularly when “reporting” Jesus’ trial and death. The Jerusalem community perished in the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 AD.

    Paul distances himself from the Jerusalem group in a letter to the Galatians:

    “I would have you know, bretheren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man ... but came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.”

    Paul’s intention was to establish that his teachings were divine in origin, quite independent of that taught by the original apostles.

    In Paul’s Second Epistle to the Corinthians, he defends himself from the Jerusalem group, which perceived him of unsound mind, of being delusional. The Jerusalem held Jesus’ death as a ‘human event’; Paul, on the other hand, claimed it as a ‘mystical event. Paul:

    “... even though we once regarded (oidamen) Christ from a human point of view, we regard (ginoskomen) him thus no longer ...”

    Historically, all very interesting. I would recommend “Trial of Jesus of Nazareth” by Professor S.G.F. Brandon. This work is rigorously researched and impeccably documented. Brandon, a christian, has impressive qualifications in Comparative Religion, has presented significant lectures: Wilde lectures at Oxford, Forwood lectures at Liverpool. Not only was he a member of Studiorum Novi Testamenti Societas, but also of the Society for Old Testaments Study; and the International Society for the Study of Time.

    I am not a christian, having departed many years ago, however, acknowledge that Jesus had important things to say, albeit, some were not necessarily original.
    Taskid
    20th Nov 2012
    3:35pm
    Jesus was not the "sweet gentle" person who man has concocted. He spoke the Truth, He was not a "man-pleaser" - he rebuked the religious leaders of His day, He told the rich young man to give away all he had and follow Him, but he wouldn't that saddened Jesus, but He did not waste time on those who preferred to disobey Him. He displayed righteous anger in the Temple where the money changers were plying their trade by overturning their tables and casting them out. He had great authority, more than any man ever had before or since and He never compromised the Word of God. He warned His disciples when He sent them forth to tell the Good News to the world - "do not cast your pearls before swine" He knew then, as He knows today the evil heart of unrepentent man.

    You try to dissect the Bible and make it fit with your understanding. That never will work.
    Twila
    20th Nov 2012
    2:19pm
    MEK,

    You asked PIXAPD if he read Hebrew - which he ignored.

    It would have been more appropriate perhaps to ask if he read Aramaic and classical Greek.
    Taskid
    20th Nov 2012
    3:04pm
    Twila
    I asked him that as I know that is the name Messianic Jews, that is believers, call Jesus now Hebrew has been restored.
    Twila
    20th Nov 2012
    3:11pm
    MEK,

    To understand teachings and the gospels of this period, they should be read in the original. If serious, one should never rely upon others' translations.
    Taskid
    20th Nov 2012
    3:28pm
    Twila
    Sorry I cannot agree with that. When one knows the Author, He can open any translation, English, French, Chinese, Korean, Pidgin English - they all say the same things. The Bible tells us to have the Holy Spirit teach us not man. He knows every word in every language. God is not bound by man's restrictions thank goodness.

    There are Christians from the jungles of Africa, PNG, the rain forests of the Amazon, the Communisty, Arab and every other language and tribe - the Word of God is available to them (where man does not try and forbid it, but even then it gets through), man's different tongues are no impediment to God's Word and the power it carries for life and Truth.
    Twila
    20th Nov 2012
    3:33pm
    MEK,
    I heard of one group believing the messiah (return of) will be born of man. They believe this literally, that a male with give birth to him.
    Taskid
    20th Nov 2012
    3:38pm
    Twila. There are many misled groups out there. The prophets told of His birth to a virgin woman hundreds of years before He came. When you know Jesus, you know the Truth. Then where there was doubt there is certainty which does not come from human wisdom.
    Taskid
    20th Nov 2012
    3:38pm
    Twila. There are many misled groups out there. The prophets told of His birth to a virgin woman hundreds of years before He came. When you know Jesus, you know the Truth. Then where there was doubt there is certainty which does not come from human wisdom.
    Twila
    20th Nov 2012
    3:57pm
    MEK.
    According to what has been written, Jesus would have never spoken in the old testament voice as has PIXAPD. The old testament was descriptive, not proscriptive. I know good pious christians who would never curse as PIXAPD has. Don't you find his fulminations at varience with Jesus' teachings? He wrote:

    What is really needed is that on a certain night, an angel of the LORD should pass through Australia and slay every paedophile.....it will mean that the next morning 1000's of corpses shall be discovered.......but there would be no more paedophiles.

    Jesus wasn't very keen on stoning ...
    Taskid
    20th Nov 2012
    6:16pm
    Twila
    Well I am not sure what you mean exactly by the Old Testament "voice" - Jesus quoted the Old Testament when He commenced His ministry, he read from the scroll of Isiaih, in the desert when being tempted by Satan He quoted God's Word - the OT and NT are both pointing to Jesus coming. Where God disciplined the Israelites was where they turned from Him and disobeyed Him by worshipping idols and false gods. Where they turned to the ways of the flesh and from Him he gave them over to their evil ways until they turned back to Him.

    I think PIXAPD was thinking in terms of the Passover, where the Israelites were told to kill a lamb and, with a hissop branch brush the blood on the lintels of their doorways, then stay inside. The Lord passed over them, but killed all Egyptians because Pharoah would not let God's people go. They had been held in Egypt in slavery, again because they disobeyed their God. Had Pharoah obeyed God his people would not have perished. Evil comes through man's disobedience to God.

    So one cannot understand the NT without reading the OT as they are the two parts of the whole.

    Jesus came to show a better way, He took the sin of the world on Himself and put it to death. Thus instead of having to strive to obey all the 600 laws of the OT which in impossible for man, through Jesus who was without sin, mankind was saved from God's judgement and punishment. However, God still says, to have that free gift, everyone must repent and accept Jesus as Saviour. He is a Holy God, and cannot accept man's sin. The choice is ours, be saved through Jesus' sacrifice, or face God as His enemy.

    As it says in John 3:16 "
    God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."

    What a promise!!! What Love!!! Yet many still prefer to walk in darkness and thus come under judgement. It is their choice though, not God's will for them.
    aquatrek
    20th Nov 2012
    9:31pm
    but wait - there is more to come hehe

    http://au.tv.search.yahoo.com/search?p=Thirst&fr=tvguide-au-ss&fr2=type&ei=UTF-8§ion=tvguide

    slurp slurp yum yum
    Nemo
    23rd Nov 2012
    9:28am
    This is cover-up central. Don't tell me the Church hierarchy doesn't know exactly what's going on. Back when I was going through the Catholic School system, rumours (and the odd accusation) were rife regarding pedophiles in the priesthood.

    That ugly veil has been pealed away and collective lawsuits and claims are raining down on the church. The perps are, of course, long deceased and safe in the arms of their saviour, but the victims' roll is a very long one and the compensation bill will be staggering.

    That day is coming for Pell and his mob. I just hope the political establishment won't try to bail them out like they themselves safeguarded their reputations and their flock when abuse occured.

    There are few crimes that are as repulsive as destroying a childhood through sexual abuse. As a society we should seek to protect our future generations from depraved kiddie fiddlers and throw the full might of justice as these perverts. Don't protect them, lock them up for all our sakes.

    23rd Nov 2012
    10:33am
    Also there is the distinct possibility that those who come in here ..who are rude, may indeed themselves be paedophiles.
    evilmonk
    23rd Nov 2012
    9:28pm
    wow - beyond offensive there. I class that comment as rude so therefore, by your own definition, you could be a paedophile.
    there - see, you don't like the suggestion either do you.
    disagreeing about religion doesn't make us paedophiles, nor does disagreeing with anyone on this forum.
    I learned the hard way to have a voice, and such offensive suggestions as you made will not make me be silent.
    FACT: priests have raped children
    FACT: churches have let them get away with it.
    That is what we have a problem with.
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    9:34pm
    stick that in your cranium power driven liquidizer bowl of an ALIEN brain PIXAPD.

    YOU ARE RUDER by miles - oops kilometers
    Twila
    23rd Nov 2012
    1:10pm
    PIXAPD,
    your comment is ludicrous in the extreme. So those who upset you 'may be paedophiles? Your readiness to judgement, and indeed who are you to judge, does not sit with the ethos of christianity of Jesus as recorded in the gospels. From your contributions here, you appear un-Christlike, more of the type of person who organises witchhunts. I doubt if you haven't attracted this observation before.

    As to the commission, the time allocated to it is appalling. One week only to provide submissions! Right from the start of this enquiry, it is evident it is only a 'sop' to the issue, not the intention of investigation and recompense (if indeed the latter is possible for the victims). Many will assume the catholic church has orchestrated this. The government must act as an independent body, however ... The government itself will be under attack. Many children have been abused within government institutions ... There appear too many vested interests to hope for an impartial investigation.
    Taskid
    23rd Nov 2012
    4:35pm
    Amazing how many can quote that one little verse (that out of context) and overlook so many of the others that talk about the fact that in God's eyes all are sinners, expecially those who turn their back on Him. You are either a friend of the Lord's or an enemy, there is no neutral territory in Him. So those who spurn Him and mock His followers are His enemies every bit as much as the pedophile. "by their works ye shall know them." Twila it is extremely correct for the Christian to hate sin, whether in themselves or others. One does not have to hate the sinner. "the fight is not against flesh and blood." We know who the author of sins, lies and where hatred of God and HIs people is stirred up in people's mind and hearts. That creature, "father of lies, who prowls around like a roaring lion seeking whom he can devour" and who Jesus who said those things warned us, can appear as an "angel of light." - he deceives many.
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    4:59pm
    what a lot of utter dribbly man conceived and written and translated over and over again to suite whatever was needed at the time 2,000 years ago = utter nonsense in 2012

    "You are either a friend of the Lord's or an enemy, there is no neutral territory in Him. So those who spurn Him and mock His followers are His enemies every bit as much as the pedophile."

    Absolutely no different in context than the Islamic Jihad - 'kill all who do not convert'

    get a real life mek and live amongst the meek and mild
    Twila
    23rd Nov 2012
    1:15pm
    PIXARD,

    Don't bother to pray for my damnation. G-d doesn't like people who do that; also he's not too keen on people whose user names are in all upper case ...
    Twila
    23rd Nov 2012
    7:20pm
    MEK and PIXARD,

    "One does not have to hate the sinner."

    Rest assured I hate neither of you.
    Taskid
    23rd Nov 2012
    7:38pm
    Twila

    Thank you. Nor me you, nor anyone on these pages. I have no hate in my body for any person. I am just a sinner who sought forgiveness and found it was there for me, all I had to do was ask. It is there for everyone, forgiveness and love. That is what people choose to spurn.
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    7:40pm
    Should the Catholic Church report illegal activity, such as child abuse, heard during confession to the police?
    Taskid
    23rd Nov 2012
    7:47pm
    As it was a reasonable question I will answer. I think you meant, "confession to a priest" not "police" - it they made it to police of course they would be behind bars. :0)

    My opinion for what it is worth, is that crimes should never be covered up by anyone, anywhere. Least of all by those who purport to represent the Lord. Thank you for a sensible question.
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    8:29pm
    the day that you can ever ever ever make a textual comment that does not include your spiritual dogma wordage like 'Lord' or 'Jesus' will be the day that hell freezes over

    or the YLC 'we' as simple straightforward social human bloggers may look fervently forward to you making a topic contribution that is relevant to the topic - I sincerely hold my breath:

    "Should the Catholic Church report illegal activity, such as child abuse, heard during confession to the police?"
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    8:36pm
    because you cannot comprehensively read nor adequately interpret plain common everyday Oz english I will assist you: 'heard during confession'.

    Without a doubt to any sane normal everyday person that phrase means - 'when confessing to a [Catholic] priest when an individual is in the confessional box/booth/cubicle within the confines of a religious place."

    Is that ok with you ?
    Twila
    23rd Nov 2012
    8:43pm
    aquatrek,
    I think any henious crime confessed in confessional should be reported to police. Undoubtedly, however, should this become accepted practice within the church, prepetrators of such crimes will ensure they are not identifiable.
    Taskid
    23rd Nov 2012
    8:45pm
    I should have known it was useless trying to have an intelligent discussion with you aquatrek. Must have been an aberration that you appeared normal for a brief moment.

    We are talking about the RC denomination. Supposed to represent the Lord, Jesus, Christ, God, Holy Trinity. You may have missed the nature of the topic. If there is no God, Jesus, Christ, Lord there would be no reason for there to be an RC denomination, let alone confessional, no one then to ccnfess to. Get a grip.
    Your question does not make sense.
    Twila
    23rd Nov 2012
    8:49pm
    Is it just me, or are discussions getting a little 'spacey' ... ? I find I am becoming quite confused ...
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    9:28pm
    be always on the alert and aware at all times when dealing with ALIENS.
    ALIEN MEK may attempt a quick duplicate blog insertion or two [probably has no f...n idea as to what it is doing anyway] but the Masonic introduction of Solomon is a 'wild' card. Means absolutely nothing at all to those who really truly understand what that particular world was all about.
    Taskid
    23rd Nov 2012
    8:54pm
    No wonder, aquatrek's mental gymnastics in here would confuse King Solomon. I made the mistake of thinking he was asking a sane question, but sadly it was not to be.
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    9:22pm
    at the minimal least I have a mind of my very very own

    ALIENS cannot function unless their circuitry programming dictates their every thought/motion/action/movement/reaction according to some dogma from 2,000 years ago when the earth was as flat as a pancake

    therefore I can without conviction or having to resort to mumbo jumbo conference with some abstract thingo inside my head cranium make a definitive statement about the topic on this blog - yes, I know friggin shock horror that the idiot self has reintroduced the real world yet again - boring disfunctional turd that he is - topic =

    "Should the Catholic Church report illegal activity, such as child abuse, heard during confession[,] to the police?" = YES; specifically note that for the imbecile retrograde intellectually impaired moronic level of ALIENS the insertion by myself [so audacious I know] of a COMMA after the word confession. This seems to have caused quite a bit of confusion amongst those who are temporarily visiting the planet - so long and goodbye MEK.
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    10:11pm
    evilmonk to MEK: I am proud to be an atheist. I believe there is no god. After all, what kind of god would allow its assistants to rape children and get away with it.
    MEK to evilmonk: Ask the one who pulls your strings and convinces you of the lie that their is no God. He is the same one who causes children to be raped. You have no idea whom you serve having turned from your Creator. You will find out sadly, I hope it is not too late before you do. "the fool says in his heart, there is no God."
    evilmonk to MEK: Really mek? Having a mind of my own and knowing that the bible is a work of fiction made up by small minded men to control the masses and changed as it suited them does not mean that someone is pulling my strings. The invention of christmas to subdue the masses and allow them to still celebrate the summer solstice under the guise of christianity is a prime example of manipulation of the christian religion by those who placed themselves in power. If your god (and the small g is deliberate) was really all powerful she would be able to prevent her minions from raping children...and as the priests are following the word of their god, god must be the one who is telling them to rape children - as one rapist priest said - god made me this way.... As a lovely intelligent child commented the other day...if jesus came back from the dead, doesn't that make him a zombie? Oh and if your god made Mary pregnant without her permission - was she raped?
    Someone's strings are being pulled here mek - and it isn't me, and it isn't by any god - it's by power hungry small minded men who are afraid of facing reality.
    MEK to evilmonk: No wonder that is your handle. It speaks volumes. You talk absolute nonsense. It is not worth discussing deep things with you. You skim the surface of superficial knowledge and assume you know it all. I will not answer you again.

    I have analyzed transcripts before and one does that task without prejudice. It is only when disseminating the discourse, section by section, that the apparent meanings behind the actual words used, drift to the surface.

    evilmonk: no god - cannot conceive a god that would bring harm to anyone
    MEK: a perceived threat in that "you will find out sadly"
    evilmonk: As a lovely intelligent [abused] child commented the other day...if jesus came back from the dead, doesn't that make him a zombie?
    MEK: You talk absolute nonsense.

    its not for me to pass judgment
    Raine
    23rd Nov 2012
    10:37pm
    I haven`t had a say on here yet but my words here are that its just not the Catholic Church that is at fault.. but all denominations that harbor this type of behavior and also who ever has any dealings with young children whether religious.. school teachers , any one who cares and looks after children... all are guilty if they have committed any sort of pedophile activity.. I agree also that If Pell knew about it and he knew who the person was.. then he should have reported it , no use being secretive about it as he is as guilty as well and so would any other person outside of the church too .. if they know its their duty to report it , I would .. So good I hope that they get moving on the Royal Commission and get acting on it quickly ... also another post here was one person said if there was a God how come he lets all these things happen .. well he gave us a free will , its our own actions that count.. we choose our own destiny .. whether we are right or wrong.. its our own choice.. just had to have my say..
    aquatrek
    23rd Nov 2012
    10:47pm
    a god that gave us 'free will' to molest children ?

    my whole being is so intensely screwed up in an agony of despair and '"what the ?"

    I defy you to define your 'god' and what that 'god' means to you because I do not need in my life any 'god' that allows the molestation of children.
    Twila
    24th Nov 2012
    12:09am
    Agreed. Indeed, if others know of child abuse and remain silent, this crosses the line from religious (or non-religious) obligations to collusion. There is no other way to see it, especially if the abuse is ongoing.
    Taskid
    24th Nov 2012
    9:28am
    Absolutely Twila. It has nothing to do with Christianity and any denomination which knows this is happening and covers it up is for me as guilty of a crime as the perpetrators. Here and there among the anti-Christ rubbish that some post in here, it the realisation that pedophiles creep into organizations whatever they claim to represent. Any that harbour them are a disgrace.

    Those too who use a forum on such a serious matter to flaunt their hatred of people who do follow Jesus Christ are just as sick. They care only for their own ego they claim to be concerned for the children, but they are as sick as the perpetrators. This is so serious, we all need to do whatever we can to support the government and the law authorities in this investigation by applauding them and not tearing at them and those who support what they are trying to do for their own sick ends.
    Rod63
    24th Nov 2012
    9:47am
    MEK - I haven't read anything on here that suggests anyone who has posted hates "people who do follow Jesus Christ". There are people who don't like religion, who don't like others spouting their religion, etc but no hatred of anyone. Indeed there isn't even "anti-Christ rubbish". Be careful with your language.
    Taskid
    24th Nov 2012
    10:37am
    Rod63
    Sorry to have to disagree with you. I have been subjected to an immense amount of anti-Christian rhetoric. I do not talk about religion ever in a positive way as I do not follow it. I speak only of Jesus, if that offends the readers as, from their heated, often, responses it obviously does, then that means they are anti-Christ. It is not my language, it is what Jesus told us about those who reject Him and reject His followers. No other word for it.
    Rod63
    24th Nov 2012
    11:50am
    What I said was, no-one has said they hate people who follow JC. People might disagree with you, not understand you but it doesn't mean they hate you, nor anyone else.
    Taskid
    24th Nov 2012
    12:33pm
    Rod63

    I apologise if I sounded rather terse. You may not have followed all the posts in which I have been called - "stupid, a fool, obsessed fanatic, ignorant, cruel, religious zealot, ridiculous, a nut, a lunatic, an alien, I don't know what I am talking about, one insult I would not repear on here,( which offended another poster and I so that reported it and it was taken down), and so ad nauseum." Hardly the behaviour of people being nice, caring, polite, accepting, respectful which they claim to be whilst all the time putting the boot into me. I have done them no harm. Whatever their attitude to me is - you say it is not hate. Well perhaps not that strong, but it is not far off it. I wish you both well.

    The insults do not bother me, the downright hypocracy and rudeness is sad. It is tiresome though and yes they have told me to shut up in not so very nice ways, So plenty of attempts to censor what I can and cannot say - it has to be to their liking or not at all.

    So when you and Jen with I am sure sincere motives try to tell me I am rude and the others are not - you got a rather terse response. I apologise to you both.
    Jen
    24th Nov 2012
    10:29am
    Mek says "Here and there among the anti-Christ rubbish that some post in here..." so what's the difference between that and you shoving Christ down our throats in every post? As for that PIX-whatever, he/she's about as hate-filled as they come.

    I bet it puts a few off from posting.

    I don't mind what people believe, but I don't want it shoved down my throat. If that happens, I go elsewhere.
    Taskid
    24th Nov 2012
    10:54am
    Jen.
    Well then as I have suggested to people, don't read my posts. If Jesus and His Word offends you, that is your choice. I have freedom of speech still, all though sometimes I wonder, in my country - so why are you trying to censor what I say?? Given that this and the post on atheism are talking about religion - not sure how you can decry someone who writes something serious on the subject, not of religion, for that is at the heart of these things, but Jesus. The one person who walked this earth without sin and died for us, such was and is His love, as I follow the resurrected Christ. Why then does He offend. He never told us not to talk about Him, quite the opposite, but of course He also said there would be mockers in the crowd, as there is in here. Nice people, but wanting censorship of anything that makes them think more deeply than where the next meal is coming from or what next to watch on tellie. The subject is an extremely serious one, how can it be kept soft and fluffy???
    Jen
    24th Nov 2012
    11:03am
    a) Jesus' word does not offend me, please don't put words in my mouth. But the way you smother every post with your Christian rhetoric, does offend me, quite often.

    b) Again, please don't claim something about me which isn't true. I am not trying to censor you. You're welcome to say whatever you want, but in so doing, you risk people being annoyed, turned off and going elsewhere. Which is what I usually do.

    c) You suggest other people are posting anti-Christian rhetoric. Well, you are posting pro-Christian rhetoric. If you can post that stuff, then others are also entitled to post their opposing views.
    Rod63
    24th Nov 2012
    11:52am
    Well said, Jen.
    Taskid
    24th Nov 2012
    12:37pm
    Please Jen read my apology to you and Rod and my explanation to you both for my rather, I admit freely, rather jaded comments to you both earlier this morning. As much as I do really love my fellow man, sometimes their ability to accept only what they understand and denigrate that which they don't can wear a bit thin with me as can their endeavour to censure what I am allowed to post. :0)
    Rod63
    24th Nov 2012
    12:44pm
    Apology accepted MEK. All the best to you.
    Taskid
    24th Nov 2012
    3:32pm
    Thanks Rod53. I wish you well also.
    Kaye Fallick
    24th Nov 2012
    1:51pm
    Love the outbreak of peace, Meeting Place friends. We are raising controversial topics and encourage you to have strong opinions - and respect the very strong opinions of others. We hope you are enjoying what we believe to be a safe online forum where you can air your thoughts - and hopefully start up your own conversations on those items we may have overlooked. Keep it coming :-) Kaye
    Taskid
    24th Nov 2012
    3:30pm
    Thanks Kaye :0) Will in future ignore the rude ones and they may feel free to ignore me if they find me not to their liking. :0) Tis a great site.
    Raine
    26th Nov 2012
    12:36am
    Aquatrek.. I still maintain that however, it is not God's fault that people choose to take the good he has created and corrupt it. It is not his fault that fathers molest their daughters or that mothers verbally abuse their sons, or young children are molested..
    We human beings are pretty much free to do as we choose.
    God doesn't let it happen. YOU let it happen. God wants you and I and everyone else in this world to step up and fight for what's right.I don't blame God for the bad things in the world. I blame my own inaction...If children are being abused, it is up to us, other humans, to stop it. If it isn't stopped it is our fault. Same goes with war, starvation, racism, and injustice. It is up to us to keep this stuff from happening. Suffering is our fault, not God's. We are the ones who choose to hurt others, and we are the ones who choose to look the other way or not try to help. anyway enough of this from me.. I don`t normally post things like this but I have been through a lot in my life , suffered under the hand of othes .. but I don`t blame God for that.. it was the one who wanted to hurt, inflict injury.. its just the way he was....night all see you tomorrow !
    Rod63
    26th Nov 2012
    8:50am
    Hi Raine - you are right, but equally a god can not be thanked for all the good that people do. We are free beings; we know what is right and what is wrong and can choose. We don't need a god or religion to do that.
    Taskid
    26th Nov 2012
    10:59am
    Rod63

    That is true if you do not know Him and I realise you don't, as I didn't either for many long years, but oh how much better it is when one does. We all do wrong things, no one is perfect only the Lord. Trouble is, people make comments about the Lord without every giving Him as try. I am not talking about denominations, buildings, priests, pastors, elders, or religion either. Knowing Jesus as a Person and having all those man-made things are poles apart. He is there for anyone who has the humility to seek Him. I am so glad I answered his invite to the abundant life there is in HIm. What I had before was pretty good by world standards, but nothing like what I have now. I would not go back to my old liffe for all the millions in the world. Try Him sometime, you will never regret it. There is so much people bless them, miss out on by sitting in judgement of their Creator instead of trying to get to know Him. He is alive, He does love you, He knows you better than you know yourself. Good and bad, He loves us with unconditional love the world cannot understand.

    So you from your standpoint I understand and appreciate your point of view, as that once was mine. He has a plan for each of us to reach our real potential as individuals - so I was doing it "my way" now I do it "His way" and oh the difference. We think we know it all. What we think we know would hardly be seen under a microscope compared to what He is willing to show us. I wish you a great week.
    Raine
    26th Nov 2012
    1:30pm
    Rod63..Thanks for the reply and I guess each of us are different.. its great to be able to post different views and to get different opinions.and share what we feel or think.. take care..
    Rod63
    26th Nov 2012
    3:04pm
    You too, Raine and Taskid. Best wishes.
    Taskid
    26th Nov 2012
    3:11pm
    You are welcom Rod63. :0)
    Rosebud
    30th Nov 2012
    7:17pm
    I would like to put a different take on child abuse and the church and how the Confessional can be damaging (or child abuse in another form).
    I was educated at a catholic primary school which was across the road from the church.

    When you are seven years old you make you First Holy Communion in The Catholic Church, or you did when I was 7yrs old, which then enables you to take communion but before you take communion you must go to confession to confess anything that is sinful before taking communion. So every Friday we were marched over to the church at 12.00pm to attend Benediction and to go to CONFESSION weather we wanted to or not.

    We were instructed by our Nun teachers that things like swearing, being nasty or talking about other people, stealing,telling lies and not obeying our parents etc, having IMPURE THOUGHTS or doing IMPURE ACTS were to be confessed. (This was at 7yrs mind you..... and What were Impure Acts?)

    So from age 5ys I was being sexually abused by a FEMALE (yes Female) relative who visited us which I had to sleep with.

    When I was being taught about impure acts etc. and how bad they were and how I must confess these dreadful sins I was committing, every day closer to Friday's confession I would become sicker and sicker inside myself with no one to tell or help me.

    I would be nearly vomiting when I had to say "Father I committed an impure act" not only was that bad enough to get out of my mouth when I was nearly vomiting, he would then go on to say "how many time did you commit these act's my child".

    When this relative was visiting, I would be in a state of mental torment and guilt all week knowing what I had to do on Friday at confession. There was never a thought of just not telling the Priest because then that would be lying and then the SIN would be even greater and I would definitely go to HELL, which as a 7yr old frightened me so much...the thought of burning in a fire with the devil poking me with his pitch fork terrified me even more.

    The story goes on and on but that is the crux of it without dredging the whole nightmare stories up again.

    I am 67 now and those feelings have lived with me and haunted me throughout my entire life and to this day I still feel soooo damaged and scarred . The only person I have ever discussed this with was my late Husband who I had been with for 45yrs until he died, and my psychologist after many, many session. I just felt so dirty and guilty and ashamed and damaged.

    Many of you will probably ask why I did not tell my Mother, well you just didn't talk about such things back then to your mother, especially the word SEX.

    Anyway, at 67 I still consider It was "Child Abuse" in two forms, one by the perpetrator
    and one by the Priest's in the confessional and no one will ever convince me otherwise..

    I have suffered severe Migraine and constant bouts of Depression throughout my life which I attribute to being a direct consequence to my CHILD ABUSE TWICE OVER.

    I have forgiven all parties connected to my Child Abuse a long time ago but what happened to me has remained with me up to this very minute as I write this as I am sure it will until the day I die.

    JMJ
    Rod63
    30th Nov 2012
    9:47pm
    How terrible for you. I hope that you severed all ties with The Roman Catholic Church as soon as you were old enough to be able to.
    Like Taskid, I am very much against religion (although I don't believe in God either).
    Taskid
    30th Nov 2012
    9:59pm
    Glad at least you know there is a difference. Wonder why people do not believe in God or Jesus. Mind you I put Him out of my life for many years, but thankfully He caught up with me, I am so glad He did. I think religion has turned people off knowing God because religion does not display the love and simplicity there is to knowing Him. Have a great weekend Rod63.
    Rod63
    30th Nov 2012
    10:24pm
    I certainly believe Jesus existed, Taskid, and I agree wholeheartedly with how it is reported that he told people to live. Like you, I see so much in religion that goes against what he is supposed to have said and what I believe to be right. As far as gods are concerned, I believe humans invent them to try to explain their (humans) existence along with the existence of the earth and beyond. I certainly respect you and your right to have whatever beliefs you hold and I am glad they give you peace and contentment. You have a great weekend, too.
    Taskid
    30th Nov 2012
    10:35pm
    Yes Rod63 you are right man ha invented many "gods" stone, wood, etc, there is only one who has not been invented by man, He is the only one too who can be known.

    I would have, like you felt it was impossible to know Him as a person, but He showed me differently. Only He can show us that He lives. Strange to the human mind I know, one day all will realise He lives.

    I am looking forward to a weekend cooler than it has been today. Still Summer starts tomorrow, so have expect some warm days. We had winds and bushfires, only one seriously threatening homes and property, but one like that is one too many!!!
    Taskid
    30th Nov 2012
    7:34pm
    Rosebud
    Oh that is horrendous. Thank you for sharing something so personal and cause of such anguish to you.

    These practices may be within the RC denomination, but they are not practiced in Christian churches which are Bible based.

    The control is downright evil and not at all Christian. To make a child go through that with a man who had no more authority with God that the postman of the day is beyond belief. These are the stories that people need to hear. It was indeed child abuse, admittedly the man did not know you had actually been abused and of course, children back then did not speak to their mothers of such things. It was all hush hush and not spoken of, so many little children suffered.

    I just hope this will open people's eyes to the fact that these religious practices are not based on what Jesus taught therefore for me anyway, they are not Christian, merely religious.

    I hope and pray you will find the healing of that hurting little child within - know that this was not of Jesus and He does heal today as He did when He walked this earth. That is what religion does not teach, because they cannot control the Lord. They need to go on their knees before Him and repent of their sin of religiosity - evil done in His Name.

    Thank you again for your courage in sharing your story. I will remember you in my prayers, that you will find the healing the Lord Jesus has for you in His great love.


    Join YOURLifeChoices, it’s free

    • Receive our daily enewsletter
    • Enter competitions
    • Comment on articles