Submarines
It's all to save Christopher Pyne's seat.
Not just Pynes seat Barak as 3 or 4 were looking shaky. In any case 3 years ago SA was promised that the subs would be built there and after the election the defence minister said they could not be trusted to build a canoe. Abbott had promised Japan they would build the subs in Japan. So no guarantee anything MT said will come to pass except France has won the bidding.
These Subs will be in fact already are OUT OF DATE what is it 50 Billion? to save Pynes seat and get Malcolm back in -- also the planes that have been ordered also lemons and also out of date.
They can spend trillions to kill you but can't find a few bob to save lives! APPALLING!!!
Where are the Liberal supporters?
Are they unable to defend this purchase?
We need four nuclear powered submarines from UK or USA.
Guided missiles and torpedo armed.
They can circle the world and stay under water for up to 3 months.
The outdated tripe designed by the French are a waste of taxpayers money
Campbell they were just was just ordered to be made in Aussie to try and keep Pyne and Malcolm in jobs.
What made me curious is that they thought about getting the likes of Japan to design them -- what if we went to war with these countries!? I would think they would have put trackers or destruction ability in them ??? They don't seem to have thought of that ?
Campbell
Well, how the hell are you! You haven't been on here for sometime.
WHY, oh WHY would we go to the USA or the UK! The following is one BIG reason NOT to go to the USA..... besides the fact that the country is SOCIALLY & FINANCIALLY on the rocks!!!!
AUSTRALIA has waited 10 years.... yes 10 years for a USA corporate to supply us with JETS.... all paid for by the PREVIOUS Liberal Govt........ now this lot of Liberal FOOLS have just put in another ORDER for more jets, even though we haven't received the first lot of outdated pieces of junk, yet!!
It is of course a Ponzi scheme and if this lot of Liberal FOOLS in govt, don't demand our money back for the first order of 10 years ago, we will have lost it all and quickly retract their order for the current lot, whilst we still have some ability to get our money back! With Ponzi schemes... the first to get their money out WINS!
Funnily enough, the RUSSIAN jets are the most durable and advanced at the moment and they can fly or land just about anywhere and do amazing things.... like HOVER horizontially and vertically. Yes, we would need to check out ALL aspects before getting them FOR SECURITY REASONS (just as we would with the USA planes, hopefully) but they would be available straight away and are pretty amazing...I was watching an American video on these planes when the US and Russia were getting on!
However, back to SUBMARINES......WHY not AUSTRALIAN! What a better way to go..... we could get our OWN scientists who are some of the best in the world to be involved, Australian people employed, manufacturing in Australia restored and employment options more than doubled (most of the currently proposed build will be in France and Australia just assembling, it seems). It is a win/win for Australia.... it would take no longer than what we are already expecting.
We need REAL leadership in this country.... ........at LEAST Labor had the GUTS to implement an Australian wide (world acclaimed) NBN that was internationally pronounce a 'world wonder', that would have put Australia 20 years ahead of the world in innovation and technology! All we have is the Libs absolute PATHETIC useless & out of date (already) piece of rubbish that they call an NBN but will COST double Labor's NBN and will put Australia 20 years BEHIND the rest of the world.
PlanB
Yes, I had problems with the Japanese, as they have Stockholm Syndrome with the USA and would do whatever they were told to do by the USA, in relation to anything built for Australia.
The USA have never done anything for the benefit of AUSTRALIA.... they even used Pine Gap to chart all COMMERCIAL shipping, so that they could UNDERMINE all our EXPORT MARKETS....etc, etc.
I also agree that the swap from Japan to France and returning some of the build (less than half) back to Australia was to keep the LIBS in govt.
Australia’s Future Submarines
The Future Submarine Program will deliver Australian an affordable, regionally superior, conventional submarine capability, sustainable into the foreseeable future.
Australia must have the ability to operate, sustain, maintain and upgrade Australia’s submarine force on an enduring basis.
Australia’s Future Submarines project will be the biggest defence acquisition in Australia’s history, valued at $50 billion.
Building the submarines will be a mammoth task – at least twice the size of the Collins Class program.
On completion, the Shortfin Barracuda Block 1A will be the most technically complex artefact in Australia.
Our pedigreeDCNS is Europe’s unparalleled leader in naval defence capability.
The firm employ more than 12,500 people globally, boasts turnover of €3.04 billion and has built 100 submarines for nine different countries.
DCNS is the only submarine design company in the world to have design competencies in nuclear and conventional submarines, safely delivering submarines ranging from 2,000 tonnes to 14,000 tonnes to navies all around the world.
The Shortfin Barracuda Block 1AThe Australian Future Submarine Program calls for a regionally superior submarine. The requirements call for a new submarine, not one that is in existence today.
The Shortfin Barracuda Block 1A, designed by DCNS specifically for the Royal Australian Navy, will be the recipient of France’s most sensitive and protected submarine technology and will be the most lethal conventional submarine ever contemplated.
Pump jet propulsion means the Shortfin Barracuda can move more quietly than submarines with obsolete propeller technology. In a confrontation between two otherwise identical submarines, the one with pump jet propulsion always has the tactical advantage.
The sonar suite performance provided by Thales will be the best available ever for a submarine this size.
Watch Shortfin Barracuda video.
Full transfer of stealth technologyFrance is offering the Australian Government complete access to the stealth technologies utilised on board French nuclear-powered general-purpose attack submarines (SSNs) and ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs).
These technologies are the “crown jewels” of French submarine design and have never been offered to any other country. The very nature of these stealth technologies and the decision to release them to the Australian Government is a significant demonstration of the strategic nature of this program for the French authorities.
The United States will be responsible for supplying integrated combat systems to the Future Submarines, as well as the submarine’s weapons.
The collaboration between Australia, France and the United States will see DCNS providing design, technology and expertise within this sovereign framework.
ALL 12 SUBMARINES WILL BE BUILT IN AUSTRALIA
IMAGINE THE SPIN OFF BENEFITS TO THE ECONOMY
Carlos, we've all read the news. What was the point of that slab copy and paste?
Also. do look up the term TLDNR.
Carlos
Thanks for that POLITICALLY MOTIVATED copy/paste, would have preferred your own words rather than LIBERAL PROMOTIONAL MATERIAL.
However, there is something very wrong here... there will be more FRENCH people employed than Australians.... that aspect you have NOT mentioned!
In regard to the 'build' being done in Australia......... it TOOK a lot of very HARD WORK by South Australia AND loud objections from the people of Australia AND unemployment figures blowing out AND ........
...................most importantly (excuse my CYCNICISM) it TOOK a political election with the poles showing that the Govt. was in trouble....for the LIBS to pull their heads in and bring SOME of the work back to Australia. Yes!
South Australia will now be able to have some economic benefit... at last! This state has been punished enough for NOT voting LIBERAL... don't you think.
Here is a list of errors from your post (not exhaustive by any means):
1. South Australia is in strife because ridiculous wages drove car manufacturing to the ground
2. more french emnployed than Australians? -= have you considered that in addiiton to tne thousands employed directly on the project , the numnber emmployed in comppanies providing services to the manufacturer, benefits to hospitality industry, rental market etc etc
3. What do the Polish have to do with this? And why are the poor folks in trouble. Havent they sufferred enough
4. Unemployment blowing out ??? Its at 5.8 % ffs
5. SA punished for not voting Liberal? Any other state youd care to mention similarly "punished"? Victoria ? QLD ? TAS ? ...
Well, Vctoria hasn't voted Liberal lately, doesn't seem likely to, and isn't getting a cent out of the Libs.
However, given yesterday's Victorian budget, it doesn't matter.
Carlos.
1. is ridiculous... it was FOREIGN megacorp withdrawal from Australia that cause the problems... at least South Australia HAS a manufacturing base!
2. Would have been a lot better IF the build was done by Australia and the USA gave us and not the FRENCH the right to BUILD their supposedly wonderful submarines.... DUH! DUH! DUH!
3. What do the Polish have to do with this??? You being silly Carlos.... Polish.... or do you mean that YOU are going to polish/buff the new submarines yourself... you know spit and polish!
4. Yes, unemployment blow out! THE PARAMETERS for calculating unemployment were altered by the GOVT.... tell me how, when Australia's manufacturing has declined, mining sector has dropped through the floor, all those industries attached to manufacturing and mining have declined or dropped drastically and NO new areas of employment have opened up, it is STRIKINGLY impossible for UNEMPLOYMENT to have gone down!!
5. South Australia was the ONLY vulnerable state that could have pressure put on it.... look at how South Australia defied their own party and waded in to support the Fed. Govts proposal to increase GST when this particular state would not do so well out of that proposal AT ALL.
YEAH, that was a wasted lot of 1-5 points, Carlos... got any more?
Carlos
Been through point 3... absolutely nothing spelled incorrectly..... go on then Carlos, the funny one.... tell me exactly what I missed.... or was it that YOU had a spelling error and I missed how funny that was? Yes!
The car industry is going/gone because Australia had the lowest import tarriff of any car making nation. Industry assistance of 500 million is looking like chicken feed now against 50 billion and 170,000 jobs against 4,000 sometime in the future. Thats a lot of taxpayers who will no longer be paying taxes as they seek employment or apply for social welfare after redundancy pay runs out.
The Whyalla wipeout looks like happening and no carbon tax in sight to blame. The subs will not help because thats not the iron they produce and in any case production is years away.
I asked earlier if the Libs had a defender on this issue. Carlos turned up, and quickly resorted to abuse.
This happens a lot. Can anyone politely defend this purchase?
The Submarine Institute of Australia released a report in July 2007 arguing that planning for the next generation of Australian submarines had to begin soon if they were to be replaced by the 2020s.[10] In December 2007, a month after coming into office following the 2007 federal election, Minister for Defence Joel Fitzgibbon announced that planning for the Collins class replacement (designated SEA 1000) had commenced.[10] The SEA 1000 project office was established within the Defence Materiel Organisation in October 2008, and was being jointly administered with Defence's Capability Development Group.[11][12] In February 2009, Rear Admiral Rowan Moffitt was appointed as project head.[11]
2009 Defence White Paper[edit]The 2009 Defending Australia in the Asia Pacific Century: Force 2030 white paper confirmed the replacement project, and announced that the submarine fleet would be increased to twelve vessels.[13][14] Reasons for the increase presented in the white paper included the growing quantity and sophistication of Asian-Pacific naval forces (particularly submarine forces), the need to sustain submarine operations in any conflict, and the greater deterrent an increased submarine force would provide.[15]
Originally, the planned timeline called for concept work to start in 2009, preliminary designs to be established between 2011 and 2013, then detailed design work completed in time for construction to start in 2016.[11] This was to ensure that the new class would be in service before the Collins class began decommissioning in 2025.[11] However, meetings between Moffitt and the National Security Committee to clarify concept details and intended capabilities, scheduled for November 2009, did not go ahead until March 2012.[11] On 3 May 2012, the Australian government announced funding for the initial design phase.[16] The initial phase would encompass studies to select the new submarines' design, Defence Science and Technology Organisation projects to establish parameters for propulsion, combat system, and stealth capabilities, along with initiating programs to develop the required industry skills for the actual construction.[16] Under the 2012 revised timeline, the preliminary phase would conclude in 2013, with 'first pass approval' to be done by early 2014, and 'second pass approval' in 2017.[16] The best case prediction for seeing the first new submarine enter service, made in 2012, was "after 2030".[11] At least some of the slow pace and lack of decision making has been attributed to politicians fearing being held responsible for a repeat of the problems experienced by the Collins class during their construction and early career.[17]
Shock Horror - planning for replacement commenced under Labor
Another pointless C&P slab. Tell us what's good about the subs in your own words. Please.
old boat spring many leak
enemy build big, new , strong underwater boat
Ozzie old boat no good, cannot fight made in china boat plenty strong
now ozzie must build new boat, so we can shoot china, indomesia, japan ansd all other bad peoples boat
bang bang, ozzie win
woo hoo
I thought the Chinese were our best friends?????
And yeh, sure, we hate Indonesia because they executed two Austrailain criminals who broke their laws, in full knowledge of the potential penalty.
And Japan, well, they have slanty eyes too, don't they.
Carlos, please get serious.
Hang on there Barak Re: copy and past could you please explain the difference between a posted link, and a copy and past taken from a link??
Stewie, we're here to express our opinions, backing them up with reliable, independent sources. Simply posting large slabs of text from other places, without saying why, where from, and without even editing them for readability (what are all those numbers?), is not expressing an opinion, nor adding anything that most people are going to read.
Carlos
You LOST again, haven't you.... I don't need to read much because your racists slurs, abuse and ridiculous copy/pastes... TELL IT ALL.
GOT NOTHING..... yet again, Carlos!
So, you spoil it for everyone else who may wish to contribute, by waffling and posting dribble.
Ray
and of course..... in wades Ray... if there is anything brewing that isn't good, you will find him... not discussing the topic.... not contribution an opinion BUT....
... yeah, you got it... posting more pictures and abusing other commenters.
Good to have you aboard Ray because it is actually YOU that is the laugh... not Carlos.
Ahh so good to be back Home ??? OOPS this is not GP is it. It isnt, is it????
At least GP had the good sense to get rid of them Stewie.
GP's gain is our loss eh!
I gather GP is a website. Who is "them"?
And once you've answered, please get back to the topic.
I'm keen to see a conservative voter try to defend this purchase.
Barak just another site mate I dont wish to advertise there link in another room I guess it wouldnt be right
Stewie
My 'multi' friend..... you banging on again about something that isn't relevant, nothing to do with this site, nothing to do with the topic, nothing to do with a comment.... just an attempt to lampoon another commenter for no reason at all.
Why does that total inanity not surprise me.
You would have got away without a comment from me IF you had called me by that persons NAME because I still regard it as a compliment!!!!
comment removed
Sorry Foxy my stupid question above Below may have put you in more trouble the last think I would have wanted
I did not have to answer you Stewie - nor did I need to "re-post" what I said! That was my CHOICE to do that! WHY? Because I am sick sick sick of what I perceive to be the unfair moderation of certain people's comments on this site!
There are far more insidious and hateful comments towards people on here than freakin' "bird-brain" - ok - it was meant in a lighthearted way - no malice meant! Not like a lot on here!
You do not need to apologise to me - but thank you for the thought anyway!
Gosh I should have come in sooner would loved to know what you said Foxy LOL
Well Stewie .....you missed - Zilch - Zero - Nada! IMO ok??? :-)
I replied to Mussitate's comment on "Ray wades in" on comments that did not concern him .......
I wrote very few words - but it was to the effect of : "May I respectfully suggest that Ray is not a wading bird - but a Vulture with a "Bird-brain"!" lol
Now I thought it was funny (at the time) - not meant to offend - but hey - Moderator came down on me - (like always - must have some favourites huh?) I did not : swear - write anything obscene - call people "morons" - "peodophiles" - "pigs" - "lowlifes" - etc. which are what is written by MEN to each other on Innes "inflammatory" Topic on here!??
Go figure??? No wonder people are leaving ..........ridiculous what people complain/report about! If I reported all the disgusting names/pics. people on here put up regarding me - I would be REPORTING EVERY OTHER DAY!!! I DON'T !!!!!!! (Especially the member that refers to me as a "Twit" - every time "he" gets a chance!) lol lol lol .......
..... and the word "bird-brain" gets "comment removed" ?? Outrageous moderating!!!! So OK to throw nasty hateful coments on here almost every day to people - BUT - cannot cope with "BIRD BRAIN"?? J O K E LOL LOL LOL
May I respectfully ask - "Where is the Moderator" in ALL THESE OTHER "insulting" instances of name-calling on many Topics - far worse than "Bird-brain" ???????
"Bird brain" is a pretty obvious personal attack. It's one of those generic insults, not even specific to a particlar unacceptable behaviour, such as bigotry. It's in the same class as moron and lowlife.
If someone is making obviously bigoted comments, calling them a bigot has some point. But there's really no point to bird brain, moron and lowlife.
I haven't seen anyone here called a paedophile. I certainly haven't done it myself.
..listen here BARAK - you have PERSONALLY "ATTACKED" ME ON HERE OK??? OK !!!! So where the hell do you get off with your pathetic and "woosy woosy" statement about "attacking" people?? You are PATHETIC!!!
There you go Mr. Righteous!!! ... "attack = pathetic"! Happy???
Good for You! Don't ever reply to me again!!!!
How did I personally attack you Foxy? Specifics please. Not just a broad allegation. Nor a refusal to discuss. There's too much of both of those here.
Otherwise your claim counts for nothing.
There is nothing wrong with the intelligence of birds .. it is only uneducated people that think they are smarter than a bird.
If you compare the size of the human brain with that of a bird brain, in a lot of ways the birds are more intelligent.
A chicken can count to five .. this takes a human several years to achieve.
That's all true Abby, but usage is everything in language. In almost all forms of its use, "bird brain" is derogatory.
Abby, That is amazing.
Took me till I was 5 or 6 to be able to count. Well maybe less or maybe more - can't remember.
I have now a new respect for chickens :)
oops,i diverted from the topic so:
yes chickens will have a big effect on Mr Pynes seat.
All Animals are a lot smarter than humans in comparison and we can learn a lot from them
Yep. I feel sad for the number of kids growing up in crowded together, inner city homes without even room for pets.
Very nice but they do not create job and growth
I prefer jobs and growth that don't depend on killing people as the American eceonomy does.
The first of these subs will be delivered in 14 years time, maybe, if all goes well.
WWII lasted six years. New weapons, ships and planes were thought of, invented, designed, built and put into service during that period. These subs will be obsolete when delivered, and cost a motza.