The Meeting Place

A mixture of Topics

World leaders are deciding who will benefit from Covid recovery plans: corporations, or the planet.

Billionaire mining magnate Gina Rinehart and the coal lobby are using the COVID19 health crisis to lobby for huge corporate tax cuts for their fossil fuel empires.

The big coal and gas companies are trying to use the pandemic to boost dirty emissions, and it threatens our chance for safe, clean oceans.

As we all take refuge in our homes during COVID-19, our birds are losing theirs. Absurdly, while the world grinds to a halt, industrial logging surges on — even after the devastating loss of habitat during the summer’s bushfires.

Our forests are in dire need of a break. But incredibly, in New South Wales, logging is happening in bushfire-ravaged areas, and in Tasmania we could see previously protected forests opened up for logging if the State Parliament agrees.

There is 31% of Victoria's rainforests were burnt, as well as 24% of wet or damp forests, and 34% of lowland forests
100% of the potential habitat of East Gippsland galaxias (a small native fish) have burnt  40% of sooty owl, long-footed potoroo, diamond python, brush-tailed rock-wallaby and long-nosed bandicoot habitat has burnt
There needs to be an urgent transition and no salvage logging.

Finally what the h3ll has damn 2030 got to do with stopping mining, logging and other gas exploration???? TOO LONG, it should be way less in years than 10 from now. By the time 2030 turns up there will be f*** All left worth saving.

I am fed up with all the BS going on and STOP blaming Covid-19 for all of it. It seems convenient to do so, so you can wreck the planet without anyone publicly opposing you. All of these and more are all under the radar with Coronavirus being the topic of precedence.


11 comments

https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/surge/save-our-koalas/thanks-can-you-double-your-impact?t=mGYVNTgJQ

To fight for koalas.

The morally defective state of NSW is logging the Koala habitat. That woman is stupid but then I suppose with all state and commonwealth head honchos, they have to have minimal common sense to apply and get those top jobs.

https://nocoalkepco.com/en/  Petition to stop the rot.


With the end of travel, the continued isolation, traffic at an all time low, planes not flying, etc, we have had the clearest atmosphere in many years. Native animals are roaming free and unencumbered by traffic and people. With all this, we have stupid idiots wanting to fire up more coal mines in Australia or Overseas (Vietnam), and create more pollution.
Not a single person in authority has opened their eyes to see the benefits we are experiencing now.
What I WANT to know is, if we are all in isolation for protection of ourselves and others, how in the h3ll can loggers keep working????

They keep working the same as MANY businesses, there is NO restriction on an office working or a factory working, the vast majority of shops are allowed to open, cafes and resturants can open for take away. Don't understand where you got your information from.

Let's get back to the way life used to be with only one billion people on the planet, instead of 8 billion. We won't have the devastation that we are all contributing to, but- life expectancy one-third of what it is now!

Not if it was handled the right way, we could still all the up to date medical stuff that is required, but a stop to fossil fuels would be a lot of help.

As for vehicles, how much longer do we have to put up with fossils (not only as in fuel but in age). We have had cars invented the same way for over 100 years. They have im[proved with "comfort" internally and on the road noise and bounce, they have improved the engine to 200mph instead of 20mph, BUT its still the infernal combustion engine.

If the world was that damn slow with computers, and I have gone from keyboard to tape, then to now its keyboard to Hard Drive. I did keypunch on Honeywells and all of this in the 1970-1980 area. In 50 years we have huge CPU's, Hard Drives, Better OS's than the Commodore 64, Mobo off the scale, and microchips so small it is hard to see with the naked eye. So why in the hell haven't improved on any vehicle????

Greed is not good how much money do they need.Unless we address world and Australia's population growth our kids will have a bleak future.

This is being done now, but so slowly you wont notice. Sorry you can't have a hip/knee replacement as you don't have the money nor does the MBF cover it. Sorry you can't have a lung transplant because you are too old, it doesn't matter if you nevber smoked and its work related - you are too old.                 Nursing homes, we don't have enough so you will have to stay at home. Call in Blue Nurses, well its not my fault they can only come once a day, just cope or ask family and if you don't have any, then ask a friend.

Do you see some of what I am saying, it is already being done to the young and old. Only the elite and wealthy are being 100% cared for, and all of their catered. We are commoners and not worth their breath on us, we are expendable because we offer nothing to the town, state, country, globally.

Australia is and has been since as far back as scientists can record a land where there has been limited rainfall, droughts and bushfires. Our animals and other creatures have adapted over the milennia and will continue to do so. I find it interesting that plants, insects, animals and other native species have become more important than mankind and it is mankind that is being asked to forgo their habitat. Trees are needed for construction, pulped to make paper for magazines, newspapers, food wrappers, and cereal boxes. Sap, the liquid that flows in trees, is used to make maple syrup, chewing gum, crayons, paint, and soap. Dyes and medicines are made from the bark, while leaves and roots provide oils for cosmetics and medicines. Trees are, in fact, one of our renewable resources

Oh boy I am glad you aren't in politics or we would all be doomed.

Have you not heard of steel framed homes? Have you not heard of tying a knot in it! Stop damn breeding , we don't need the idiotss of yesteryear having multip[le brats they can't afford to care for. I am talking of one family I know of when I was about 13 years old, she was one of 24 damn kids! We do not have to populate Australia as we had to in the past as most aren't living in central Australia, they are all wrapped around the coast. Thats where over population is. With modern conveniences today, we don't need mewspapers, magazines, - the Internet will give you all that and more. Food wrappers or cereal boxes used to come in a greaseproof paper and now its damn plastic.A lot of the things today used to be in glass bottles or glass jars. When shopping we had bags or pull along 2 wheeled trolleys and the food went into them once purchased, as is, no damn paper in it whatsoever.

I am old and almost 80 and I know what I remember as a kid and what my parents and grandmother did. One thing I must totally agree with, the days of long ago had material that had to be washed when it was used for the 'time of women'. I'll leave it at that.

I agree to do all things with trees that means NOT cutting them down. Indigenous did well until we came along and gave them our diseases, and they had no Internet, no shops, no books, yet they remember the dream time by song, made homes (wurlies) with fallen branches and used dry grass and some branches with leaves to cover the house.

Ah yes, Beemee, steel framed homes. And how does one go about gathering enough steel to make a house frame? Well, people like Gina Reinhart will kindly dig up some iron ore, ship it off to China who will turn it into steel and sell it back to us. Oh, by the way, China will use our coal to fire the power stations for electricity and feed the furnaces to make that steel and in case you haven't noticed, iron ore and coal are both finite resources.

Did your parents and grandmother build a humpy out of fallen branches, dry grass and leaves to raise you as an only child or did they have something a little bit more substantial like a timber house. Did the house have electricity so you could study your schoolwork when the sun had set. Did you mother and grandmother cook on a fuel stove (wood-fired) or an electric stove which got its power from a coal-fired power station. Why are you denying those who are young and growing up in a different world some of the luxuries you enjoyed as a child?

First off, no they did not have timber homes and no electricity and no running (mains) water. I lived exactly the same way, using lamps and a tank. The house was made of clay bricks made by HAND.

I would not have minded the luxuries you speak of, but I never had them. They were not available in our area. A horse and cart was the go more often than not or you actually walked, something many don't want to do today, but they will pay handsomely to go to a gym???? Beat that for common sense!.

Then we a friggin idiots and need to go down the tube if we allowing those mongrels to use OUR coal for the power stations. Imagine a world without mining, oh bliss. A time where we will listen to the heartbeat of the planet, the seasons, the forthcoming rain, and the "hunch" man who says Don't do that, don't go there". All that is gone! Fortunately I still have that as I spent most of my life in areas where its not a contrete jungle and I am not bombarded by all the BS that goes on now, and not in an overpopulated town/city.

If kids of today did as we did, we would likely not be in this mess. Those youngsters of today in the 20 -35 year range want things way out of their reach and would sooner go deep into debt to get them. We didn't, we built a house that could be added onto as each child came along.  Now this generation want a family room, a theatre room, a spa, a 4 bedroom home, the main bedroom with en-suite,an  entertainment area, and a multi-bathroomed home. WTF, they need to grow up and get some sense.

Mankind's habitat is not a city. Cities are essentially the product of increased population harnessed to the need for greater production and consumption. While Capitalism does offer benefits when it is unrestrained, as is largely the case here these days, it exploits resources in the pursuit of profit, i.e. greed. 

The fact that both Communism and Socialism don't work either points to the need for a middle course which is tricky to achieve as those whose wealthy is increasing in our current system will fight tooth and nail against any change. They will be supported by certain branches of society.

We simply cannot continue to destroy our planet because in effect we are destroying ourselves. Scare tactics will of course be trotted out, they always are, but we have the intelligence to minimise the current damage without too big a loss to our wellbeing. There will always be the naysayers who cannot see past the end of their nose but thankfully those in the past who had vision for a better future prevailed. 

Mankind's habitat is not a city. Cities are essentially the product of increased population harnessed to the need for greater production and consumption. While Capitalism does offer benefits when it is unrestrained, as is largely the case here these days, it exploits resources in the pursuit of profit, i.e. greed. 

The fact that both Communism and Socialism don't work either points to the need for a middle course which is tricky to achieve as those whose wealthy is increasing in our current system will fight tooth and nail against any change. They will be supported by certain branches of society.

We simply cannot continue to destroy our planet because in effect we are destroying ourselves. Scare tactics will of course be trotted out, they always are, but we have the intelligence to minimise the current damage without too big a loss to our wellbeing. There will always be the naysayers who cannot see past the end of their nose but thankfully those in the past who had vision for a better future prevailed. 

"World leaders are deciding who will benefit from Covid recovery plans: corporations, or the planet."

And I thank God that this is so. I shudder to think what the planet would look like if the greenies and tree huggers would be allowed to have their say in what we should have after the pandemic. No industry, no mining, no constant electricity, no meat, no jobs, no welfare because without workers there will be no taxes collected to pay for governments to run the country. No crops because native animals will be allowed to run unfettered to eat any crops that have been planted by hand (no machinery allowed).

 

Good to see that Horace Cope is espousing that governments should make decisions, not people. A true Communist at heart, clearly. People are basically ignorant, so they can't make good decisions. Corporations, of course, are close to governments, so they are included in the decision making process. It all makes sense! What would all of us cretins know!

It is also clear that our population level is not too high because the more people there are the more tax will be collected! That must be a good thing, although maybe we should cut taxes more, so we can all afford guns. I am starting to understand.

Horace Cope seems to think that species can apparently adapt in minutes, trees are renewable (although they only grow at a certain rate, far slower than we are felling them), and that we don't really need any of this silly nature stuff (or apparently oxygen, plant fertilisation or most other essential natural processes). The earth and scientists will provide us with all the things we want, as opposed to need, no matter how many of us there are.

I suspect that Horace Cope is unaware that the Earth is not a "magic pudding".  However, I am aware that emotion and ignorance will always defeat science and logic, every time.  It's just the way humans are - selfish, greedy, largely illogical and basically driven by emotion. (Not you, Horace Cope, just everybody else).  

 

 

Janus, are you aware of how democracy works? The people have a vote and choose the best person that they think will run the area/state/ country on their behalf and then allow those people to get on with the job that they have been voted in to do. If the people don't like what governments do they can vote them out at the next election. Communism is the antithesis of democracy.

Janus ... emotion and ignorance will always defeat science and logic, every time.  It's just the way humans are - selfish, greedy, largely illogical and basically driven by emotion.

Sad but true IMO.

We have trashed this planet despite it being the only inhabited world so far discovered.

Tree falling over by MissCaptainAlex on DeviantArt

Horace, there is NO democracy now as it should be --  we are slowly getting be run by fascists and both sides are the same -- although the left seems o have a bit more caring than the right --  the whole system needs to be taken down and start again --

It is all about greed these days and has been for a LONG time -- you speak of  'tree huggers'  well I wish there were more of them as the trees and nature are the things that will save this planet --

Greed might seem good for a time -- but in the end, you can't eat MONEY!  and the way the planet is going that's all we will have

I will not vote for any that are available at this time

Now that was basic common sense Janus. It seems people think they are are the only ones on the planet and everything else must cater for them, move or die.

So sad, I am glad I will not be around by 2025, not likely either in 2030 based on my age, but to all who think all will be well, I have news for you and its not good. May God of whom you believe, protect your kids and grandkids because they are the ones who will suffer because of our greed and all the things we wanted, because we were too lazy to do a job ourselves.... dishwasher vs hand washing, walking to the store instead of driving, spas instead of showers, vacuum instead of a broom, polishers instead of getting down on our knees and doing the job manually. Electric mixers instead of hand beaters. I could go on but its enough. Laziness instead of manual labour, is what is making us all fat. Not included is the crap of prepared food from outlets. I am sure as I speak to those in the area in which I live, they would not know what to do if they could not get to a takeaway store, or buy ready made food, they would starve as they have no idea whatsoever on how to prepare and cook vegetables or meat.

 

Without modern technology, buildings, transport wth wheels, coal, then I guess we'll have to return to this

Early Man- Paleo, Neo, Mesolithic Flashcards | Quizlet

As things stand, I will not vote for any of them next time, no matter who they are or what BS they spout. I would rather pay the fine.

Besides these scrappy "how to vote" sheets are insufficient as they dont have ALL the candidates on them.

Lib vote for him or vote for her. Alp vote for him or vote for her. Greens vote for him or vote for her. Nats vote for him or vote for her. Independants vote for him or vote for her. One Nation vote for him or vote for her, and so on. But they have forgotten the major players, Gas, Mining, Oil company CEO's and Directors. They are the ones ruling this country, not anyone in today's Government, although they may like to think they are.

None of them have the guts to tell big business, the Murdochs, the Gina Rhineharts, the Peter Scotts (ergon director) and all those others that would take pages to note, to all go and take a hike!

Been there done that Beemee some years ago because I am sick and tired of Party Politics.

But then our forefathers went to war for our Freedom, so it doesn't make sense.  Put your vote where it matters most.  Write to the politicians do not email them.  Snail Mail makes them have to reply, emails they ignore.  Even just get your name crossed off take the paper at Election time, write a message on the voting paper if you don't want to vote.  

I agree the atmosphere is much better at the moment, so we need to look at how we have achieved this situation, I suppose the first thing we need to look at is the $330 billion the government has put in to pay people who can no longer work and other measures to keep things running, each state has also kicked in a few Bob as well, the money that has been put in is a small fraction of what is needed to keep our country going through this crisis, so if we look at who is still working, the miners, the steel workers, the mechanics that keep those horrible cars, busses and trains running, the workers mentioned  are all in income producing industries, we then have to support the non income producing industries, the police, the armed services, the SES, the fire fighters, and let's not forget the people who are protecting us daily while putting their own lives at risk the healthcare workers and their support, then there are the teachers very valued members of our communities but again nothing produced until much later when their product gets out into the work force. I am all for renewables, although I hate wind farms they are a blight on our country side, we need some sort of base load for use when the sun is not shining, or the tides are not big enough for hydro generation, batteries are not efficient enough at the moment and are expensive to produce and also use the same production technique currently being used to create electricit. Many environmentalists think they have the answers, but like most extremists they only have part of the answer, the same applies to the extremists that think the only way is coal and iron ore or any of the other things mined that we currently use. What we need is a compromise, but unfortunately we will never get a consensus between the extemist from both groups.

Beemee, the predictions that the planet is going to hell in a handbasket have been around for over 2,000 years.  We are all doomed they say.  Actually the planet is a very reslient thing.  As fast as "man" knocks down a bit of nature, nature knocks down something of "mans".  Yes, always has, always will be.

The fact that you were able to place your concerns in this public forum is almost entirely thanks to the mining industry.  Every facit of daily life has been built on products that were mined some where.  That they were able to be processed into something useful to you was thanks to materials created from mining, powered by mining.

I'd suggest take a break from ABC and SBS News as they are harbingers of continually "bad" news.  Take what they say with a grain of salt and a dose of cynicsm as they have an agenda to keep you interested.

Todate, there is no viable alternative to fossil fuels for the transport that brings the greater population the food that they need to survive.  It is fossil fuels that provide the emergency medical services that save lives every day.  Without fossil fuels for transport, millions around the world would die of starvation.  You may have your own garden and orchard, but billions do not.  It is thanks to fossil fuels that crops can be planted, harvested, processed and brought to the communities.

Motor cars and transport generally have actually evolved a great deal over the past 50 years and are much more efficient and safer than even those from 20 years ago.

If you decline to make your mark on Election day, you have taken away your right to criticise the elected representatives.  Democracy works that way.  Sometimes the successful candidate isn't the best person for the job, but the least worst.  If you really feel that strongly about the quality of the candidates, you are quite free to stand for your beliefs and let the people decide. 

You say that you are not 80 years of age yet, this means that unless you do have underlying health concerns, you can expect to live at least another 8 to 10 years, that is young enough to form your own political party and lobby for change.  Winston Churchill was still writing when he was in his early 90's.

Geez Louise, drama Queens. We will NOT go back to the cave man era if a majority of this crap slows, Lucca.               Instead of going gungho, how about cutting it to a sensible level.                                                                                  You have a tin of biscuits with 50 in it, you now have a choice,                                                                                      

A. feed 10 with 5 each or                                                                                                                                                                                         B. feed 50 with one each.

This stupid countries mentality is flat out doing A. WHY? because they wont look after Australians first and foremost, then with the left overs give to other countries. But no, they do it the other way around and we get the dribs and drabs. All for the root of all evil - money and following close behind - greed.

We are already behind the 8 ball in choice anyway. Aren't we? Don't believe me? Well look at this. We have something simple as toothpaste that has a specific brand of your choice (you pick one). There are 5 types on the shelf for you to select from. You have freedom of choice to choose whatever one you want. Now step back 5 - 10 years, there used to be 10 of that brand to choose from, you don't see these changes coming. We are all being herded like a bunch of sheep to the slaughter, given no choice but what companies WANT you to choose. Wake up before you become part of the crowd that is heading for the cliff.

Beemee,

Not too sure about the toothpaste choices available from 5-10 years ago but vaguely remember the choices of 30 years ago seemed to be limited to Colgate or Colgate ..

Think there was something called 'Ultrabrite' toothpaste but unsure if that was a Colgate version or not.  Can't recall these tooth whitening toothpastes back in the day or even Sensodyne etc.

Also seems to be a helluva lot  of 'milks' to choose from these days that didn't seem to be available as choices 30 or 40 years ago.  But have no idea how the milk choice availability is holding up currently during the pandemic.  Just know I was limited to purchasing only 2 cartons of long life milk a few weeks back.  And even though 5 to 10 years ago we might have had more choice, 30 to 40 years ago we didn't have the grocery choice we see now.  So not completely sure I understand what that is telling us.

Very likely we may be in for a stint of the 'feed 50 people one each' version.  Perhaps even a type of rationing similar to that seen during other global upheavals ie. world wars etc.

The entire global economy has, is and will be effected by this event.  Oz is in a better position than a lot of others but we too are part of the world.

Actually until we have a vaccine or treatment for this virus we will be putting out spotfire outbreaks in Australia   with nothing really ramped up to 'business as usual' pre-Covid19 until that happens.

Beemee, I do agree with you that if there is one thing that we as Australians must work on collectively is to put Australians and Australian interests ahead of foreign enterprise.

Though it must be remembered that the majority of Australian businesses over the past 200 years have all needed foreign investment to get them up and running.  There has always been world leading innovation from within this country, but our local markets have generally not been large enough to even cover the actual manufacturing costs, let alone R&D.

Speaking subjectivey, most of us prefer the convenience of the range of products that Coles and Woolworths array on their shelves to darting from small convenience store to convenience store. Both of these retail giants bring immense pressure to bear on all of their suppliers to "negotiate" a lower price on any product that that manufacturer may wish to have in those stores.  And then charge them shelf fees to get the better product placement.

A "big" deal has been made about a QANTAS flight training centre that is operating in my area.  It is planned to graduate around 250 new commercial pilots each year.  It is being run by Flight Training Adelaide.  They are using a fleet of new purchase Austrian training aircraft.  The manufacturer of these aircraft has a factory in China for at least some subassembly fabrication.

Flight Training Adelaide is owned by Hong Kong interests.  It would appear than that apart from direct operating costs, any profits from this enterprise will be leaving this country and going, indirectly, into China.

The optimism showing that QANTAS alone believes that they will need an additional 250 new pilots a year for the foreseeable future says that the high risk arline industry does believe that the world will not be ending in this decade or even for at least another four decades.

Get out and around in our country and you will see that the environment is not being terminally destroyed.  The regenerating showing a couple of months ago in areas west of Sydney that had been hit by the bushfires shows that much good can come from apparent devastation.

Horace, there is NO democracy now as it should be --  we are slowly getting be run by fascists and both sides are the same -- although the left seems o have a bit more caring than the right --  the whole system needs to be taken down and start again --

It is all about greed these days and has been for a LONG time -- you speak of  'tree huggers'  well I wish there were more of them as the trees and nature are the things that will save this planet --

Greed might seem good for a time --  for some --  but in the end, you can't eat MONEY!  and the way the planet is going that's all we will have

I will not vote for any that are available at this time and did not the last few times

11 comments