Assisted Dying Fact Check

 

Has assisted dying been a legal slippery slope overseas?

Former prime minister Paul Keating says that the experience of assisted dying legislation in "overseas jurisdictions suggests the pressures for further liberalisation are irresistible".

Mr Keating's claim doesn't check out.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-10/fact-check-do-assisted-dying-laws-lead-to-a-slippery-slope/9116640

 

 

12 comments

I believe we need this law passed as soon as possible, the suffering of some older people is distressing and they need the option of opting out LEGALLY, bungled attempts at suicide is cruel and needs to stop.

The law certainly should be passed Toot. People should have the right  to say when in horrendous pain "it's time".

Agree emphatically.

I agree Toot, and needs to be passed before I need it, hopefully there's plenty of time for legislation to be passed before then  though....

Keating is correct and the article has shown proof of that. Belgium and the Netherlands have both altered their original legislation to accommodate different groups. The discussion around the term "voluntary assisted dying" emphasising individual choice and avoiding stigma in a way that "voluntary euthanasia" and "assisted suicide" do not is just pollyspeak. The result of each of those terms is that someone has died because they wanted to. I agree with euthanasia but my agreement is only on the basis that medical opinions support the wishes of those who want to die and there is no cure for the illness/pain and the end can be forecast.

My very rich Aunt is 97 and I am the sole benefactor in her will.

Come on Doctor how much will it cost me for you to hurry things along?

Posters

Beware as the next assisted death might be your's.

I can only speak for myself. I want out of this life before my further existence becomes meaningless. Assistance with my self-destruction would be welcome in the form of appropriate pharmacuticals rather than having to rely on the more dramatic, and not so assured, means such as overdosing, electrocution, drowning, firearms, sharp blades, plastic bags, car crash or household poisons.

I am enjoying my life now but I know there may come a time when all enjoyment goes. If some persons have religious, moralistic, ethical or other reasons against self destruction, that is fine with me, but let me decide what is best for myself.

VICTORIA has become the first state in Australia to offer an assisted dying scheme for the terminally ill after a historic but controversial Euthanasia Bill successfully passed state parliament last year.  But it won’t be available for about 18 months.

 

How will it work?

Two doctors will have to sign off on the process, assessing whether the patient is eligible.

 A doctor is not allowed to initiate discussion or suggest voluntary assisted dying to a patient.

A patient requesting a medically assisted death will have to make two formal requests as well as a written statement.

 The doctor will prescribe the substance, which will be dispensed by a pharmacist.

If they are able, the patient will administer the lethal substance themselves, but if they are not, a doctor will be able to assist.

The patient would have to nominate a contact person to return any unused substance to the pharmacist.

Doctors will have the right to refuse to provide information, prescribe or administer an assisted-dying substance if they are conscientious objectors.

More http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-22/euthanasia-in-victoria-how-assisted-dying-laws-will-work/9115210

 

Ah yes, toot2000, that is the proposed legislation and there's not too much wrong with it that people can complain about. But, heed Keating's warning, once the legislation is passed it can be amended without the need to bring the law before the Parliament. Written into the original legislation will be a clause to amend, should the need arise, to further "adjustments" in the event that the law does not work as planned. Never forget that we are dealing with politicians here whose only role in life is to be re-elected.

But I would like it to go further

In the Netherlands, assisted suicide is legal – and not just for those with terminal illnesses. At one clinic in The Hague, anyone with ‘unbearable suffering’ can be given the relief they seek.

 

A touching set of photographs shows a man, just in his 70s, surrounded by his family, being administered euthanasia medication. The pictures hang opposite the desk of Steven Pleiter, the director of the Levenseindekliniek – End of Life clinic – in The Hague, Holland, and he points to them with pride as an example of a “good death”. Pleiter helped pulmonologist Petra de Jong, now retired, start the Levenseindkliniek in 2012.

The man in the photos was not terminally ill, but he had been diagnosed with borderline dementia. He did not want to go where the illness would take him, or leave the request to die until he was no longer considered capable of understanding the implications. This is just one of the cases where the clinic has lived up to de Jong’s belief that people may decide themselves when life has become a matter of “unbearable suffering”. Controversially, she also declared that euthanasia should be on offer to anyone over 70 who is convinced that they have reached the end of the life they want to live.

More: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/sep/11/assisted-dying-dutch-end-of-life-netherlands-unbearable-suffering

 

My sister, in her late 80s, is in poor physical health and says she will take matters into her own hands (have no idea what she means and afraid to ask) if her health continues to deteriorate.  She is crippled with arthritis and can hardly walk without a cane and is slowly going blind and terrified she will lose her licence which would be the last straw for this fiercely independent, strong-willed woman. 

She says she's had enough and wants to die.

 

Unbelievable!!!! your sister is " crippled with arthritis and can hardly walk without a cane and is slowly going blind and terrified she will lose her licence" and in her  late 80s.

she should have stopped driving a long time ago, why isn't she being stopped or reported????? Ok so she wants to die, but how many does she want to take down with her.

I'll report her if you like :(

Yes the Dutch have got it right, there was a program about a woman who lived in an aged facility, nothing medical wrong with her but she doted on her daughter whom she saw every day. The woman was in her 80's and when the daughter died she had nothing left to live for, she wasn't depressed just matter of fact that she had lived a good life but had had enough of it and now wanted to check out.  Numerous times she was asked by the doctors if she was sure she wanted to go and she never wavered. So a date was set and even before they gave her the drink they asked her again and again no hesitation.   People need to realise that the aged do not want to live forever, once the novelty and enjoyment is gone, tiredness sets in they should be able to say, enough is enough after all its YOUR life and it should be your choice 

Reagan this poor woman may be reasonable while she is sitting in her car -- she may be much better while sitting or lying --she may be suffering sight wise but is STILL able to see but will be tested every year medically and sight wise, she would not be driving if she was unfit.

Thanks trood and PB for your comments, it easy to see there is still fierce opposition which makes Victoria's decision all the more remarkable.  Alas, NSW missed out by the whisker.  In November last year, after a marathon sitting that took all day and well into the night, the bill to legalise voluntary assisted dying failed to pass the upper house by one vote.  

With 19 voting in support but 20 against, the result came down to the wire so we still have a long way to go.

@ PlanB

Watch A Current Affair tonight.

Sight is probably the most important issue for those that are driving.  Just imagine how one would feel if they knocked down a line of children waiting for a bus because they could not see clearly.

What Victoria is bringing in is a good start but far too many restrictions, have to wait 1 year before they deem you are due to die of some terminal illness or wait until the pain is too unbearable etc, etc the stress of so many hoops to jump through is enough to kill you (hopefully).  No one else can request your death on your behalf, it has to come from YOU, so why worry that others will pull the plug on you?! and don't even start with the religious crap!

A lot of the time it is NOT the DYING it is what you are going through B4 hand

So true PB, cannot understand why anyone would deny a human being the right to end their suffering.

Everything is open to abuse and this will be too. The concept is honerable and would stop suffering if used  as intended but Australia is a very crooked place as we all know so watch your backs you oldies as the next one might be you.

I have a hospital background and I know for sure that suffering is ended when there is no more hope.

There is no need for anything else to confuse the issue.

Tom,

You are absolutely correct.

Currently, doctors will give pain-killers to those in severe pain even if it hastens death.

Unfortunately, the vulnerable will be at risk if euthenasia is introduced.

Doctors state they are pressured in many cases by relatives to withdraw treatment which keeps a  patient alive, and with quality of life.  These instances are notable because of financial benefits to the relatives on death.

Also, there are many who feel a burden on family, especially if the family makes this apparent, who would feel obligated to seek euthenasia.

At what age should the ill be euthenasiaed?  Many would feel uncomfortable at the idea of euthenasing children.

I have no problems with those who seek termination of life for themelves, but I don't think they should involve others. Perhaps people should make their own preparations for when, and if they want to end their lives.  Taking one's own life is not difficult, and with fore-knowledge of what is ahead of them, and planning, the timing and practicalities are not difficult.

Nitschke has attended many who seek to end their lives.  One notable case was that of a woman who had a severe re-occuring stomach pain.  Fearing she again had cancer, she should Nitschke's assistance.  The post mortem showed no cancer, but scarring which could have been easily removed.

When entering hospital, one is given a Directives form to complete which expresses one's intentions.

Also, one can have a NFR directive on their medical records. "Not for Resusitation".

I have witnessed a cancer patient in an end of life hospice and he was visibly anxious and upset because his pain was NOT under control.  He kept saying 'where is that nurse?' waiting for the next shot of pain relief.  This was in a Sydney hospice in 2017 and it is clearly NOT GOOD ENOUGH.


......For people suffering from severe cancer pain, for example, hospice providers often advise caregivers to give them pain medication at safe, regular intervals to prevent "breakthrough" pain -- sudden bouts of relentless, uncontrolled pain. If you wait until the patient asks for pain medication, he or she may already be suffering, and the pain will be harder to get under control. If you're working with several caregivers, make sure they all understand that the medications should be used to prevent breakthrough pain -- not just to treat it when it appears. This means an around-the-clock dosing  schedule could be necessary in some cases.

Even when patients are taking painkillers at regular intervals, however, they sometimes need a change in medication to keep the pain under control. For this reason, family members should serve as pain monitors. One of their most important jobs is to ask the patients for frequent pain updates, Dahl says. "At the end of life, pain can become much greater very quickly," she says. "You can't depend on the patient to tell you when they are in pain. You have to ask.

https://consumer.healthday.com/encyclopedia/aging-1/misc-aging-news-10/pain-control-at-the-end-of-life-643650.html

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