Capitalism
The thing I despise about capitalism is corporate greed. Large corporations and their lobbyists have created loopholes that let them avoid paying tax by shifting profits to the Cayman Islands and other offshore tax havens. They are also allowed to find poor workers offshore and pay them a pittance to produce their goods. Meanwhile, jobs dry up at home and workers’ wages remain stagnant.
Yes I hear you say, but they provide thousands of jobs and their success is important because of the millions of employees who have their super funds invested with them, so yes, they have to keep their shareholders happy by showing a healthy profit every year.
So you have to ask yourself, should we allow the big corporations to continue their insatiable appetite for greed, or punish them by insisting they bring the jobs back home and pay tax like everyone else?
Aaaarrrrhhh..... Lookfar..... but were you about when the Tibetan monks were in control.... it has been documented that prior to 1959, 95% of Tibetans lived in 'feudal serfdom', and cases have been cited of abuse and cruelty in the traditional Tibetan system.
Tibetologist Melvyn Goldstein wrote in 1971 that "Tibet was characterized by a form of institutionalized inequality that can be called pervasive serfdom".
The western world is intent on demonising China and therefore any reference to the pre-China state of affairs in Tibet, is aggressively challenged and stifled.
No the Monks are little different to their western or eastern counterparts.
It is probably true that the situation could be so classified, but is that what the people of Tibet would say, - as a highly religionised community, - not that i agree with making anything so rigid, it seems many were very happy, - of course not all, so it would be interesting to find out how Tibetans feel now, - unfortunately the Chinese Govt will not allow that, - their line is that they have "freed" Tibet, end of discussion.
The Chinese at this point in time are very nationalistic, perhaps Jingoistic, perhaps with good cause, but rarely do two wrongs make a right in such situations.
Lookfar
Indoctrination of Tibetans by Tibetan Monks using religious dogma, goes deep and ensures a populance that is totally controlled..... particularly when that country is isolated and dominated by one religion that pervades every element of the inhabitants daily lives.
It doesn't make it right what the monks were doing.
Other than any human rights issues that come from two cultures clashing so stringently, of course...... will Chinese interference, in the long run, bring about better things for the inhabitants of Tibet?? Only time will tell. If they stayed isolated, is it not logical that they would remain as they were.. serfs to their Tibetan monk masters.
It worries me if the Chinese in Tibet are zealously nationalistic, as portrayed by western media... it doesn't bode well for the rest of the world.... Americans are similar and because of the jingoistic indoctrinations of Americans, they have allowed their megacorps and their megacorp controlled govt to do some pretty horrendous stuff.
Oh! thank you for 'jingoistic', I assumed what it meant and can recall its use decades ago but still looked it up to be sure.
Good discussion... made me think!
Well, Mussitate and Thea, if you think Egotism, (lower Ego,) is fine, how can you change the corporeaucracy?
"Concience" is a quality sometimes emerging from the higher Ego, but you point out (correctly, I may add) that Megacorps do not have a conscience, nor, I would say, do they need to have to survive at this time, so how can you change such a cancer at the human breast by leaving it alone?
Quote Lookfar..."you point out (correctly, I may add) that Megacorps do not have a conscience)
Incorrect...I did not say that...
Lookfar
Egotism.... I discussed excessive greed on the previous page (bottom) and talked about how the corporate structure facilitates leashholders (owners that sit in the shadows), to disconnect from reality and sit in their wealthy bubble and lose all real humanity.
Real people rarely have this disconnect, although there is greed, it doesn't extend to watching people die in front of you in order to satiate that greed. Human beings that are not denigrated to such an extent by poverty, slums, violent crime and drugs OR indoctrinated with different forms of warped religious extremism, don't usually do these things.
If we get rid of the corporate model, a lot of the depraved things that are happening throughout the world will reduce drastically, along with the parasitical wealthy 1% who would rather kill their host rather than stop feeding. They seem to have handed over their humanity and intellect in exchange for gross disconnect and life in a champagne bubble.
Back to your question of egotism..... it is very broad, so I have just dealt with one aspect of it and hope we agree with some of it.
Cheers
Hi Mussitate, I went to an all worlds music festival at Bellingen NSW 20+ years ago, (I lived there then) that friends had organised, and saw a Tibetan lady singer, Yungchen Lhamo, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yungchen_Lhamo in a big tent with about 100 of us, in the pouring rain, and she sang, without accompaniment, to all of us, - to describe her singing, which pierced our souls (sorry you don't like that word) as divine, is only half of it, the very air was ringing after she stopped, then she would sing again. - Cd's just don't capture it, then she talked about the destruction of her land and culture, and could we wish her people well, I find myself crying just remembering it, so I find it very hard to accept that such a sacred country should be destroyed, nor that such a pure person would lie, - or even could lie, and certainly China had no imaginable claim to invade Tibet, but seem to be doing very well with the mineral resources they no doubt knew were there.
I dont think we have the right to judge another culture and decide it should just be expunged, whether by Jingoistic Capitalistic Chinese nor immoral Capitalistic Mega-corporations, as BHP has done in PNG, just for money, nor for anything else that I can think of.
Sacred country??? Sorry, up until that statement I could understand where you were coming from. WHAT is sacred about Tibet, except its monks who treated the nation's people as serfs and cruelly abused them.
All people in MOST countries that have been isolated are beautiful and brutal. Our Aboriginal people HAD a unique culture that Captain Cook even stated was different to anyother he had encountered.
Yet, Aborigines are treated rather badly in Australia with little acknowledgement of this.
Other countries whereby the people have been treated badly by invaders are also then sacred.... Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria and not forgetting Vietnam and South American countries where cultures had never even seen white people (Amazon) or Papua NewGuinea... ALL no different. Every inhabitant of these countries has suffered loss and disconnect with their culture because of invasion and interference and many have sung their songs too.
I have listened to many Aboriginal singers tell their story and it is very, very pertinant but sacred!!!
Don't get me wrong..... I understand the beautiful feelings that were generated on that day and your moving recall..... this is not about that, it shows that you have beautiful humanity.
My point is: What have the Tibetan suffered that is worse than our Aboriginal people or the people of the Amazon or the people in the middle east or Vietnam.... most of these other nations and peoples have been subjected to unthinkable and horrific acts of violance, torture and inhumanity..... way beyond what the Tibetan people have and are suffering.
I feel it is merely looking at things through a telescope, rather than wide lenses.
I apologise in advance for this discussion but as Tibet is important to you, the rest of the world where grosser and more inhumane acts against the innocent are prevalent, are important to me.... hence the hyperbole.
I enjoy our discussions and hope you can understand where I am coming from with this.
In respect....
Thea, as the email was to you and Mussitate, I can understand that you feel incorrectly accused, although I can not imagine you, nor anyone else, would argue that Megacorps do have a conscience, - it is just not part of their remit, unless they get exposed doing some unconsciable thing, upon which they suddenly grow a 'consciense' to retain sales.
No hard feelings.
Same here Lookfar...no hard feelings.
You have brought up a subject which is one of my favourites to discuss...I have explored Theosophy, Gnosticism, Buddhism and so many other philosophies...accolades to my parents who encouraged it..
Yes.. I am very happy to say I have not been "brain washed" by any of them including my Steiner education. I must clarify however I did not go up to age 16 at Steiner...as youngsters we travelled a lot with my parents and I really must say that was my best education.
We have a number of friends who like these discussions and several times during the year we indulge at our house..
Such a joy..good conversation and good wine (for those who drink!).
Hi Mussitate, I agree that the corporations have no morality and say also that that is a fateful and frightful structure to have such power on this our planet, and the power of corporations is growing, - just by a whisker Australia escaped the TPP, which would have allowed American corporations to sue, (as they have done already many times in Canada,) our government bigtime for doing such things as banning harmful pesticides, vaccinations, or indeed anything that threatened a company's making profits, no matter how abhorrent or destructive it might be.
Indeed our very own turnbuckle exremely desired the TPP to come, even though, - or perhaps because, it over-ruled Australian sovereignty, and although much analysis suggested that Australian businesses would suffer greatly, only mega-corporations would benefit.
The joker in the pack that has saved us from the TPP is Donald Trump, so whether he turns out good or bad, he at least has given us the breathing space to look a lot more closely on such a misrepresented and bad idea.
How would you get rid of corporations? I can only think by the People controlling through appropriate organisations, the dispositions and dispersions of Capital, ie money, in a wise way to sustainably shepherd the resources of the Earth for all it's inhabitants.
I admit to being attracted to Rudolf Steiner's "three fold commonwealth" ideas, as you would expect, - Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, but am certainly interested in your ideas.
Cheers, Geoff.
Lookfar
I couldn't have written it better..... I agree fully.
You actually 'undertand' what it is all about which gives me hope that things can actually change.
In regard to the TPP, yes Trump has (so far) saved us from that deadly travesty of a SELL OUT of our country, to megacorp interests...... however, the 'suits in the shadows' haven't actually finished with Trump yet.
Trump is one of the big boys but not one that is fully aligned with all those in the 'shadows', so we could see a big shake up of the 1% which is dangerous. Additionally, given it is Trump, I agree with Julian Assange.... there WILL be changes .... some good and some bad but changes, none the less.
More discussion.... really good, I am enjoying it.
Thea, do you recall what Madame Blavatsky said about Tibet? - even though I read her major tome "Isis Unveiled", (I think it was called) and some good things about Tibetan spiritual achievements, much has disappeared..
Sorry Lookfar...I don't have any writings of Blavatsky..I was doing a paper once on various religions & philosophies and the Theosophical Society in Perth allowed me to use their library..
I remember a few weeks ago a member disclosed she/he was studying Blavatsky...I hope she/he looks in and sees your post and can help..in the meantime perhaps there may be something here?
https://www.theosophical.org/publications/quest-magazine/3616
Hi Mussitate, I feel that many pure cultures should not have been invaded and destroyed, - what we have lost just in Australia alone is so sad, and what have they now? Macdonalds, TV and Debt.
Admittedly some of these cultures were sexist, hierachical, Patriarchical, (Hello Trump's America) but a much more humane and respectful meeting should have taken place, not poisoning, forcing to jump over cliffs, massacreing, hunting like God knows what, - I cringe at what some of our forefathers in this country did, but yet many forgive us whiteys, perhaps you recall my letter to Frank about my Black family?
Every country and culture thinks it is the best, hello, how can they all be the best? the answer is that only lower Egotism could say such a thing.
Cheers,
Geoff.
Captalism good - socialism bad - ask Don.
Too simplistic Reagan, whatever Don is, Socialism is not often contemplated these days, ie it is not a choice for most, so one can't have the dichotomy being Capitalsm versus Socialism, so when Capitalism is going bad, like Socialism did, you have to look at other options.
Realistically you have two more options now, - either Repair Capitalism, perhaps by eliminating or strongly controlling Megacorps, or by setting up a new system, (not socialism) which must learn from the past.
You probably know which I prefer, Have you any ideas on that second option?
Thea, on the topic of everyone has an equal chance, The Converstion this morning had an article on unpaid work experience, and it disadvantaging poorer folk.
https://theconversation.com/unpaid-work-experience-is-widespread-but-some-are-missing-out-new-study-70737?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20January%2018%202017%20-%206528&utm_content=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20January%2018%202017%20-%206528+CID_c71af49e54404439dd279035b9bb34df&utm_source=campaign_monitor&utm_term=Unpaid%20work%20experience%20is%20widespread%20but%20some%20are%20missing%20out%20new%20study
Specifically they said, " Professions such as politics, journalism, law and finance are dominated by those from privileged backgrounds. This is not only because existing social networks promote opportunities, but because wealthy families can afford to support their children while undertaking work experience. In our survey, young people from high socio-economic backgrounds were more likely than other young people to say that they cut back their paid work hours, paid for their own insurance, travelled for more than an hour or lived away from home. "
These are important and influential careers in our society, so slanting them towards the privileged means that our society becomes less able to change, as circumstances change, - the privileged do not want to give up their privileges, even if those privileges are causing severe harm or destruction, - which is arguably the case now.
Cheers,
Geoff.
I
Both your response to Reagan and to Thea are excellent...... sourced and backed up..... and you have a nice 'manner'.
Hope you don't mind if I just sit back and enjoy the read, rather than participate.
Lookfar, you have made some very good legitimate points. I have been accused, many times, over the years that I have been on here, of being a rusted on member & supporter of the Liberal Party. I have replied, on many occasions, that I am not. I am a keen believer in Liberal Philosophy, which has not existed in the Liberal Party for many years. The major Parties in Australia are nothing more than proponants & practioners of political science, which is being run by a number of faceless men & women that the voting public, generally, have never heard of. Under this system, we are now watching the fact that a second airport in Sydney, is more important than a water supply from the Ord River scheme. When we built the latest damn at Warragamba, the population of Sydney was 2 million. It is now approaching 5 million with nothing of value in sight. We had a dry spell a few years ago & the Warragamba damn was nearly emptied. We need 40,000 new dwellings each year in Sydney & we are building 30,000. We are bringing in 300,000 immigrants each year & we should be restricting it to 75,000. We have, by far, the biggest & highest paid, Defence Force, per capita, in the World & we couldn't even defend Darwin, let alone Australia. I could go on & on, but it is not going to change. No point.
Frank, do you really believe that the Chinese people have the tiniest bit more control of their destiny than what the Govt allows them? - Dream on, I have been there a cuppla times, - not as a tourist, and I can assure you that the Government in China has not changed from the time of the yellow emperor, for whom Tianmenan square was less than a yawn, perhaps you would like to live in Tibet?