Government sticks to its guns over cashless welfare

Analysis of how the 'Healthy Welfare Card' is working has been exposed as severely flawed, but the Government is standing by its $18 million cashless welfare card trial, despite the damning report.

The Australian National Audit Office (ANAO) has found major flaws in the data used to evaluate cashless welfare trial and claims that it's "difficult to conclude" whether social harm including alcoholism and violence were reduced by the system.

The Audit office conducted its own analysis and came up with different figures on ambulance call-outs and school attendance.

The office conceded that the trial was well implemented, but there are major flaws in the data collection used to evaluate the scheme.

Despite the this report, Social Services Minister Dan Tehan is sticking to his guns.

"The cashless debit card is making a real difference in the communities where it operates," he said in a statement.

"[It] is an important element of the Government's work to reduce welfare-funded social harm, and to help Australians escape welfare dependency.

Acting Shadow Social Services Minister Linda Burney questions whether the card does indeed help people, saying the card should not be rolled out to other communities until there is incontrovertible proof that it works.

"We simply don't know. We have testimony from communities that are part of the trial sites and there is a variety of views in the community about the value of the card," she told AM.

Do you think it's a good idea? Would you be happy to have your pension paid via such a method?

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More socialist nonsense. Be careful what you wish for. Everyone will be caught eventually so no holier tha thou comments. We need stronger laws in place and acted upon if anything is to change. 

Stronger laws mean nothing, niemakawa, if we do not have judges to make them work. Shorter trials and longer sentences, perhaps?

Cowboy Jim. Agree. 

 

"Socialist", niemakawa? The opposite: it's Big-Brother Fascism from an incompetent Rightard government.

Knows-a-lot .Facism=socialism=communism. All related.

Yes wages and salaries should have been tied to productivity back in the 70s and we'd have a capitalist system that worked.

Price controls could have also assisted.

Price rises and wage stagnation is giving greedy capitalists a bad rap.

we could of course just gaol any employer who steals wages or superannuation for say 10 years. That would stop the theft of those billions too.

Yes Capitalism can work very well with regulation and fierce consequences.

In my opinion it's not acceptable to treat   everyone on welfare as if they are all irresponsible citizens.

 Having said that, where children are involved, the card will ensure they are fed etc

Many children are neglected regardless. They should be removed from families without further ado. 

niemakawa - here I would agree; however will we want to have our children going through the same "stolen generation" all over again in  about 25 years?

Stolen Generation fact or myth? I believe that in the vast majority of cases the removal of the children was necessary to protect them. So in my view it is a myth.

There was no stolen generation either black or white. They were the rescued generation in that many would not have survived if they had not beeen rescued. 

That's not necessarily true, Kiah, some people will use the card to buy groceries and then sell those groceries, cut price, and take the money to buy booze, drugs, etc.  We have politicians who look down from their well padded lives and make stupid rules because they haven't thought them through.

It would be interesting to know how many politicians, ex politicians, etc booze and take drugs.

OG, have you researched how many children have been abused and have died due to our child protection services removing them from their homes and dropping them off at so called "a place of safety"?

A considerably lot less than if they had been left in situation they were in before child protection got involved. 

I agree with Kiah to some extent.  However I think people receiving benefits for children should, at least, be given the opportunity to show how they manage their money and whether the children are being well cared for and fed.  I agree that there are a lot of people mismanaging their money and a lot of children who are missing out, but let's not put all welfare recipients in one basket.

What about working people who squander their income and don't feed the kids. Do we confiscate their earnings and issue a "card" only to be used how the Government sees fit?

It's a minefield when you start these sorts of ideological regulations. Especially if there is money in it for someone in the form of fees and charges.

Take it to extremes and maybe everyone's money should be managed by Big Brother to ensure it's not wasted or spent unwisely.

Look at the fees and charges being stolen out of compulsory superannuation savings right now and the addition of "insurance" etc to benefit the finance industry.

Workers must be made to save. Maybe they need to be made to spend the way the Nannies decide too.

Let's start with welfare and see how well it works shall we?

OG, you're not being realistic.  There will always be a black economy.  I'll guarantee that a loophole will be found by someone who will find a way to fence cashless cards for cash.

 

Just like they used to sell their ration cards back when I was a lad. Too many ration cards and not enough buyers so they couldn't sell them for even half what they were worth. 

It won't matter, if people need drugs or booze enough they'll take any price they can get so they'll end up with far less cash than they would normally have and the kids will get even less.

As they say one door closes and another one opens. Corruption and fraud have been part of society since day 1. Unlikely to change anytime soon.

If it goes too far just opening the door will be dangerous. You'll need razor wire compounds and armed guards like the other third world places have.

The cashless card has been trialled and has had a reverse effect to what our jolly pollies insisted would happen.  Domestic violence has increased since the card was introduced. Crime increased, yet the government ignores that side of it.

Social scientists, police, etc have known for decades that poverty creates and increases crime and violence but our pollies, protected by their minders, and chauffeurs, refuse to acknowledge that.

It discriminates against people on welfare. Are they on welfare because they cant manage their lives? Only sometimes

There should be a choice about whether you want the government to manage your money or not.

Using cash is a good way of managing weekly expenses. Why take that away from people.

Why shouldn't the government have a say in where welfare money is spent? 

It is far eaier to manage weekly expenses electronically that doing it using cash. 

Cashless cards may be beneficial in communities that spend their money on drugs and alcohol but the majority of recipients are frugal with their money and certainly do not need cashless cards or cards of any kind when it comes to their finances.   Having access to your own cash has a lot of benefits and allows you to get the best for your money.   Definitely no cashless card!   It is absolutely demeaning!

I agree. Not only demeaning but can be soul destroying not being able to be independent. 

Absolutely right. I also agree with niemakawa.

Not sure niemakawa but any Social Security means you are dependent on the State. You were just decrying it a bit back.

Capitalism means you are totally  independent because there is no Social Security available at all. You want something you pay for it.

 

o.g you crack me up, the more they bring up to discredit you the more they agree with your posts and yes while not agreeing with all your posts, such as living at less than the pension, being a self retired retiree, You got a back-up just in case, I fully agree with you on most points, they tried this card in our area, result every time we went into super market we were asked to use that card at minimal payment, if you refused as we did every time, we were called every name under the sun, I myself is not a supporter of such a sceme, however anything to stop the rorts in the name of welfare payments are only for the good of those who pay their taxes and work so many of us can live in retirement 

Why did the supermarket care if the minimal payment was made or not?

I can't understand a supermarket abusing customers?

Not everyone can be saved. This is the problem with society these days it expects the unattainable. 

Look you centerlink customers, you will do as you are told, you cannot be trusted with money and don't forget to vote for us again.

The cashless card has a few problems at present but it is necessary for a small percentage of people.

It is certainly worth pursuing in some cases.

I am an aged pensioner and have worked my budget on a spreadsheet for years.  I don't drink, don't smoke and have to save two years to have a weeks holiday interstate.  I definitely wouldn't want a cashless welfare card instead of my pension.  But I agree that where you see neglected children and parents always on drink or drugs its probably a good idea.  How you prevent people from exchanging goods bought with it for money from someone else I don't know.  A programme to get the parents off their addictions should be run at the same time.

I once suggested that if the goverment set up a system, like they have in many other countries, where they provide cheap meals at school, every child would be assured of being fed a healthy meal every day. The money could be deducted fom the centrelink payments. 

Think of the howling and gnashing of teeth when you start deducting something from C/L payments, Nan. How long have you been here??

Rae - we did not have GST in 72 so I take it that your figures are a bit skewed.

Yes Cowboy. In 72 it was the excises and sales taxes. Read the article it's quite interesting. The Conversation and there is a photo of Mr Morrison. It's about budgets I think.

I was interested that the GST failed to raise more over time than the old sales taxes and excise.

It explained that. The author is a well respected economist and uses official data.

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