The Meeting Place

its the old saying....

"Do as I say not as I do"

Qld Premier... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-17/maleny-dairies-denied-queensland-government-milk-contract/11875820

Nice one. I refuse to drink that crap. Aren't they aware that China has polluted soil? It is heavy with chemicals. Cows eat grass, cows give milk, we get stuck with drinking it.

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won't matter in a couple of years when this federal gov has allowed the dairy industry to completely collasps. All milk will be imported then and you know they will import the cheapest they can find. Our dairy farmers need all the support they can get. 

That Qld premier 'Annastacia Palaszczuk' is a total piece of waste and another that is in it to line HER own pocket with the arrogance and total disregard of the country

That is what China does underbid so they get all the contracts, the Indians do it too when buying businesses. China will own all farms in the future and we will be their slaves.

rubbish, the bulk of the contract went to French-owned Lactalis. And by the way, if you buy Pauls brand dairy products, guess what, that is also owned by Lactalis.

I don't buy milk anyway.

Time has come to get the BIG stick out. Stop all overseas Companies and Business Firms from purchasing ANY Australian business, land, farms and government members. China is buying our powered milk which is safe and now we are buying their "fresh" Milk. What a lot of "c**p". If governments were not being financed by international companies maybe things could be better on the "homefront".

I quite agree with you ronloby No foreign country or company should be allowed to buy up our businesses,land,farms and especially our utilities like Water,electricity and gas. They should only be allowed to lease certain property so that if they do not do the right thing they can be evicted annd made to pay compensation for damage caused.

there was no farm land involved in the deal.

Quite right, ronloby. It is especially upsetting and disgusting for Australians to see key food sectors being sold out to foreigners, especially to non-quality companies from China, India, etc, etc.

In fact, the entire Australian scene is full of disgusting sales of our wealth in mining / resources, including Gas, Oil, etc being handed over to foreigners who have profited out of this country, while we tax our citizens to the sky. Much can be learned from the Middle East countries, who have exploited their Oil wealth to their massive benefit with no taxes on the people. Our disgusting self-serving politicians ALL need to be thrown out before anything can change.

It does not take much to draw out the xenophobes lurking amongst us. Never mind that Lion Dairy has been in foreign ownership for 15 years, first with the San Miguel, then Kirin. Brands include Pura, BigM, Farmers Union, Yoplait, Frûche, King Island Dairy, South Cape, Tilba, Timboon, Clover Creek and Berri. Don't like it then don't buy those products.

Perhaps Australians would not be selling our businesses to foreigners if locals would buy them. Unfortunately they do not and Australia is an importer of capital. Australia was built on foreign investment, first from Britain, then America and more recently Japan and now China.  According to DFAT that foreign investment fills the gap between what Australia saves and invests every year and has amounted to around 4% of GDP for decades. Simply, we would not be living in the Australia you want to preserve if not for a century or more of foreign investment.

https://dfat.gov.au/trade/investment/Pages/the-benefits-of-foreign-investment.aspx

Just one word - disgraceful

Last year Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk launched a new multi-billion-dollar Queensland Procurement Strategy called "Buy Queensland".

Sad and silly move away from their own policy IMO.

of course the owners of Maleney Dairies would say that, as processors they wanted a commercial advantage and were unsuccessful with their bid. Without knowing the ins and outs of the contract, there could be any number of reasons why Maleney was not the preferred bidder e.g. availability of milk types throughout the year, packaging, delivery schedule and so on.

Although the winning bidders are foreign owned, the local arms "have 100 per cent Queensland employees — all the business chain with the farms and all their families and all the businesses that they support running their farms — are all Queenslanders". In other words, the supply chain is identical to Maleney Dairies and unchanged. The article states "A Government spokesperson said a larger supplier was needed to fulfil the complex contract" so sour grapes on Maleney Dairies' part that they were unable to persuade the government otherwise. 

This is not about closing factories to buy imported product. If we did not want the foreign capital then sales to French owned Lactalis (owns the Italian company Parmalat amongst others) and now Chinese owned Lion should have been rejected by the FIRB; once allowed however then they should be treated as any other locally owned business.

For what it's worth Lion Dairies, now Chinese owned, has already been foreign owned for 15 years, first by the Philippines' San Miguel and more recently by Japan's Kirin. Lion has confirmed there is no farm land involved in the deal. It's also worth noting that only the month before Lion divested two King Island dairy farms to Canadian dairy giant Saputo – so much for the "aussie" King Island, South Cape, Tasmanian Heritage and Mersey Valley cheese brands. Unfortunately so many australian keyboard warriors are quick to react to their perceptions of the dairy industry (fresh milk pricing anyone?) when they are largely ignorant on how the international market operates.

 

You are probably correct but so am I. I do not buy my milk from foreign a-holes, the dairy I purchase from is about an hour from me and it is 100% owned by australia and a family owned farm. It does not have the ability to sell over a wide area or for that matter to any major store as its too small. But then, big stores (Woolies/Coles) would want it for next to nothing and they love to rip off the little guy.

 

There is a good deal more to proper procurement processes than just slecting a supplier based on one criteria.

Price, Supply chain structure, Abilty to deliver, and Financial security are just some of yhe elements that need to be assessed.

You may have a preference for local suppliers or products but to use this as the only criteria is a huge mistake and would lead to a massive incrwase in costs due to profiteering.

Businesse are therevto make profit, they will charge what the market will bare.

Beemee, I also buy from a local dairy less than ten minutes from home, not that this is a choice available to everyone and little to do with marginal producers in Queensland.

You are mistaken to be pointing the bone at Woolies and Coles when it comes to the prices they pay for fresh milk. Supermarket contracts in fact added stability to the farmgate price by setting medium term prices and increased consumption thereby enabling farmers to better plan their production.

The dollar milk came from squeezing processor margins, not the farmers, and the benefit mostly passed on to consumers. It has no direct relationship to the cost of production for the supply of milk by farmers and processors to the supermarkets. That said, supermarket branded milk sales account for less than 8% of total fresh (drinking) milk production.  Until recently supermarkets negotiated direct with processors like Norco and Saputo however they are unwinding these arrangements, not that this will greatly influence the average farm gate price. The drinking milk market is around 30% of the 9 billion litres annual milk production. The vast bulk of milk production goes into a range of products (butter, cheese, UHT, powders) of which about half are sold domestically and the other half exported. These exports compete on a world market, of which Australia is a significant player but, courtesy of the Russians not taking European milk, is still a price taker. 

Its a rip off. Have you heard about Woolies going to a farm to buy the produce and quoted $x per tonne. The day of pickup by woolies they started to renig on the price and talked the farmer down to well below what was originally set. What does the farmer do? He has all his crops ready for market, assumed Woolies would take all they wanted and quoted on, he has made no backup provision for another company, so he either sticks to his price and woolies tells him to take a hike, or he bites the bullet and sells it to them and gets underpaid where he barely if at all, breaks even.

This is happening a lot more than you think, and Coles do it too.

As far as I am concerned, screw those 2 companies, I don't shop there anyway. One rip off by any company and you're done and dusted permanently by me. There are still enough choices here at the moment, but when I leave, I plan to be self sufficient so wont be bothering with any of them. Going to grow my own fruit and vegetables, then bottle them. Going to make my own butter, cheese, wine, pasta etc. Nope will NOT have anything that requires me ending the life of an animal, will go Vegetarian. I will have a wood stove to cook on and heat water for showers and washing clothes. I will not have electricity or landline or NBN phone. One mobile (maybe) that only does text and calls and nothing else. All correspondance will be by letter, you know the one, the old pen and paper scenario.

I am actually looking forward to 'moving forward by going backwards'.

 

 

 

Sounds good to me Beemee, being self sufficient has always been my goal but have not achieved it as yet,  we might not have much choice in the future to look after ourselves. You will be much healthier with home grown food and away from all the EMF's too. Many poor communites overseas only survive by growing their own food. We also cannot keep on the path that agriculture is on at the moment, check out the film 2020, very inspiring, watch it until the end it does start off quite shocking but ends with positiveness.

 

 

Beemee, why not start a conversation to share your experiences? I suspect there will likely be more than a few on this site sympathetic to your ambitions and would like to follow your journey.

How far along are with your planning? What size property will give you your independence? How will trade for items you cannot produce? Are you becoming a hermit or retaining a sense of community? Achieving self-reliance on your own is a challenging target. 

There is a lot to like about the notion of 'moving forward by going backwards'. 

Good luck with your future life Beemee.

 I plan to be self sufficient so wont be bothering with any of them.

I grew up in that situation, no electricity, no mechanised transport, little communication, grew own food, etc etc.

It's a very hard grinding road and I hated it almost every part of it. I hope you like it better than I did.

 

I agree RnR. I don't speak with any folk with experience of those circumstances  wishing that was their life today. 100% self-sufficiency is an elusive goal. My dad tells me how hard life was on the farm back in the day and his family had the advantage of producing and preserving much of their own food, party line phone, a tractor, horse and buggy and so on.

 

... party line phone, a tractor, horse and buggy and so on.

:) That brings back memories Farside.

Tractor was useless in floods, horse and cart still worked though LOL.

 

Yep. I would like to know how all that “self sufficiency” is done on a pension.

Do keep us informed!

 

Just to mention, I wonder if every contributor here is using an Australian owned and built electronic device, drives an Australian owned and built vehicle, heats and cools their home with an Australian owned and built system, wears clothes and footwear manufactured in Australia by Australian owned companies etc !

I would if I could, but not available. I bought one of the last made fridges. And we all know what happened to the car industry. You can buy Australian made clothes but you have to search online for them.

And the point of your question - walking the talk or whether it is possible to live a modern life without imports? Is there an Australian owned and built option for electronic devices, vehicles and footwear? 

As for your question, my response is a combo of ticks and fails though it's not for lack of trying. With the demise of local car manufacture my next vehicle will likely be a fail addition. I prefer to buy local but the fact remains it is not always possible, nor from a global trade perspective, desirable.

I tend to prioritise fit for purpose, locally produced, manufactured, owned in that order but rigid adherence has it's challenges and sometimes requires compromising on quality.  When none of those are an option then I will favour product made from Australian sourced materials all else being equal.

Check the Australian made website: https://www.australianmade.com.au/

I had 5.25 glorious years without electricity, or phone or running water (mains supply). I want that time back again.

We had a galvanised wash basin, that was about 3.5 to 4 feet across, it was an oval shape. We heated water on a wood stove, added it to a shower bag with just enough cold water to make it the right temperature. Person one would get in the tub in front of the wood stove when the weather was cold, and have just enough water poured over you to get hair and body wet. Soap up and shampoo, rinse off. Person number 2 would use the already pre-used water for soaping up and shampoo, then fresh water poured over to rinse off. We could shower in less than 10 litres of water for the two of us. We also changed over, who was 1st showering the last time went 2nd the next time.

We did at the early days during the wet season, drive 1 km down the road and fill 4 plastic containers with water from a stream but it was seasonal so had to move our butt to get a tank asap. Then our little veranda we housed the stove and showered in, had an iron roof that was directed to a copper where we would during the rain, bucket the water out and into the new 5,000 gallon tank. We had a 37 foot bus we had made into a mobile home that we also collected water off of, and that bus was our sleeping area.

Some of the best meals were cooked on a wood stove, never burned a damn thing but I do on rare times burn something on gas or electricity.

My funniest recollection as I sat in the bath getting water poured over me was to see a snake behind the stove climbing the wood slatted wall we had to stop the weather. Hubby decided it would be a good idea to shoot it as it did look like an eastern brown of about 4 feet long. The only problem with that is it echoed! Eardrums rung for a long time later, and we just couldn't stop laughing, plus the added bonus is the snake zigged when hubby zagged and got away.

I really enjoyed reading that Beemee, thanks for that little look into your past. It brought back memories because a lot of my friends lived fairly self sufficient lifestyles in the 1970s and '80s. The men built their own (beautiful) homes, the women had home births, washed the family clothes and nappies by hand, cooked on wood stoves and made all the clothes for the family. The old gender roles were little changed but it was an exciting time when young people were attempting to form lifestyles that differed from the traditional in many ways. They were buying land communally, establishing communal vege gardens, pre-schools etc. Some continue to live the lifestyle and some moved on to earn more money and buy their own homes on suburban blocks in various places. My hubby and I never joined a commune but we tried to be as self sufficient as we could. We bought an old farmhouse which we renovated over 20 years, milked our own cow, grew our own veges and fruit, free ranged hens for eggs, had an open fire for warmth, chopped our own wood. For some years I hand washed all the clothes for our family of 5, including nappies for 2 kids. Then my hubby and I dug a deep trench about 50 metres to a back shed to lay electricity and plumbing lines to establish a laundry. My hubby broke his arm so by myself I concreted the shed floor and built two brick piers for the concrete tubs. Gave myself tennis elbow doing all that which lasted for years lol. We never had much money because of the high interest rates but we blasted the house with music and we were happy.

Beemee and Ny19, your stories affirm the idea if you live a simple life then the "enough" you need to be content might not be that much at all.

 

 

 

Wow Ny19 - in the 70's and 80's?  Seriously?  The 80's particularly were extremely wealthy times?  Christopher Skase - Alan Bond - etc. etc.

People had "posh" dinner parties with 24% lead crystal glasses and Arzberg china and Christofle silverware.  Drank only the best champagne.

Went to Disco's - top restaurants - bought high fashion items (both clothing and furnishings) - flash cars ..... only the best would do.

"Different strokes for different folks" eh?   :)  I never washed a nappy in my life - had "Nappie Wash" service for the first 3 months and then disposables!  Affordable with only 1 child.....

Only "hardship" I think my Mother ever had when I was a child was cooking on a briquette stove - washing clothes in a gas copper and then through a "mangle" was it called? a (wringer thing with a handle?) - but from memory that didn't last for long - she then had a twin-tub washing machine and electric wringer.

Wow when I read some of the stories on here I find it really amazing what some have had to endure (and I say/mean that in the nicest way) 'cause geez it sounds a hard way of life to me -  without you "guys" sharing your past - one would never know who is behind the "screen"!  I have great respect and genuinely thank you!!   :) 

 

 

 

 

 

It was a lifestyle choice Foxy, a lot of us were turning our backs on materialism back then and were aiming for self sufficiency as much as possible. Mind you I didn't choose to hand wash clothes, just didn't have a laundry and washing machine for a few years. I did have an old hand ringer though which helped. We didn't need anything flash to enjoy life and probably would have turned our noses up at flash furniture back then because of our anti materialistic stance. Lol, most of us (me and my friends) wouldn't be seen dead in makeup or high heeled shoes either. I guess we had a sort of inverted snobbery about such things. We were into second hand everything and recycling goods. Had lots of big parties where everyone would bring a plate and their own grog, barbies, dinner and lunch parties without flash crystal ware and expensive grog. Played lots of sport. Went to the pub occassionally to enjoy live music. Still do all that and still not very materialistic but enjoy more home comforts these days as I age, like having a dishwasher, microwave, a recliner chair, decent car etc. Still not a big consumer though....I don't think we need a lot of "stuff" to have a good life.

Reading your comments Ny19 makes me think that this idealism coming back, there is a lot of young people making efforts to be more conscious of recycling etc. but they still won't give up their phones lol.

Yes musicveg, I know of young parents who are refusing to buy their children new plastic toys - will only buy second hand and also are refusing to buy synthetic clothing.

Our real luxuries enriching life and mental health are nature and relationships. We can do without many "inanimate things" but not them which is why we need to fight so hard to look after our beautiful planet and act on climate change.

Image result for richie rich animated gifs

looks like Foxy and I were the only rich kids, I never had to lift a finger either, LOL

 

 

Hell yeah, happiness is sometimes the hard work associated with the simpler life.  Over the many years of travelling and having various jobs, all of them eventually came into fruition. I did brickie work and ploughing, which came in handy. Hubby did solar installations, roofing, some electrical, plumbing, and as he is a high end Engineer construction was quite on the cards. The only thing he is not good at is Wood. Thats where I come in for carpentry. So between us we fairly well covered the whole sh!tbox and dice.

My parents lived the life of immigrants. When they eventually could scrape enough deposit to have a small 2 bedrrom house built, then the hard work started. Dad was a Boilermaker on the railways and worked 6 days a week. He always came home about 9pm and only saw us asleep. He built garden beds in the backyard and got in 6 hens. They were great producers and Dad always took in eggs to sell to his workmates. We lived mostly on mince, and sausages, Mysteries, as they were known by. All the veges were grown in the garden. Mostly potatoes, which went a long way. He never owned a car but they were content with what they owned. We slept in beds from a second hand store and we had Army blankets to sleep on. Talk about 'roughing it', but we were as happy as Larry, we didn't know any better.  

Interesting reading, some of that takes me back too.  Memories of being 'doubled' on Dad's bike.  He didn't have a car when I was little so he made a little makeshift sort of saddle for me so I could sit in front of him and not fall off.   Chickens in the back yard and a couple of sheep that were shorn by hand shears.  Some clothes made out of old flour sacks. A dairy farm at the end of the road where we got our milk, and a market garden one suburb over.  We lived in a suburb of Brisbane, not a rural area either, and on only a little over 1/4 acre or so. 

It did have its downside though there was also an asbestos factory one street over.  Of course, we didn't know then what we know now.

It is now considered an inner-city suburb, being taken over by multi-dwelling apartments.  The asbestos factory is still there though.  Some small businesses are operating out of it.  I guess no one wants the task of pulling it down.

The house and the dairy farm are long gone.

How the world turns.   

 

..... ok - going out on a limb here - lol

You obviously have no idea - as a child - whether you are "rich" or not??  If I had not read all these posts on how you "guys" remember your lives as kids etc. - I would have told anyone who asked me "Were you a "rich kid"?   I would have said "No"!!

Wow!   Obviously I was (and didn't know it of course!)  

At age 4 1/2  -  I was sent to a Private College (green/gold uniform - leather satchel) - lived in a palatial two-storey home - went everywhere by taxi's (until we had a car - was age 7 by then)  Went on beachside holidays every year for 2 weeks.....had china/porcelain "walkie-talkie dolls" (remember them?)  - latest bike - had the first transistor pocket radio etc. etc. - crikey - were my parents "rich"? Musta' been!!  I didn't know?

One thing I do remember fondly - my Nan had one of those old gramaphones with the big "silver horn piece with a needle in it"  that you kinda' curved out and put the needle on the record?  Mum bought my first record I wanted - Bill Haley & the Comets "Rock around the Clock" haha .....and we took it to Nans to show her and we played it til it went "warm and bendy" lolol  I was 8 then....   :)

Moral of the story?  Not sure - but my only son was a "rich kid" - had everything (still does)  - however the private schools we sent him to had parents/kids far richer than we would ever be - so he doesn't "think" he was "rich" and in conversations it annoys me a little that he doesn't!  But hey - I didn't either as a kid growing up ......but looking back now - I was!  

 I wished I had appreciated my childhood and my Mother more!!!  :(

.... so I'm guessing - that maybe is the "moral of my story" ......?

 

I never thought of myself as poor either Foxy, well technically I probably wasn't, more middle income.  Dad was a truckie so he would have been reasonably well paid.  Mum was just frugal.  LOL.  I never wanted for anything.   I don't think any of us think about it as kids, especially when we are really little.  

I was born in August 1945, so any deprivation was probably more rationing because of the war than a lack of a reasonable wage, as would be the case for most post-war kids.

But surely a lot of Australians would have had much simpler, less materialistic childhoods than those of kids today.

 I was raised in and about rural and regional Queensland and it was completely the norm in the 1950s to mid 1960's for most people to still have backyard lavatories, to cook on wood stoves, for kids to wear sibling's hand-me-downs, for mothers to sew kids clothes, for kids to get toys, and not many, perhaps a couple of times a year at Xmas and perhaps birthdays - but not always.  

There were very few take-always, think the only take-away of my childhood was fish 'n' chips but it wasn't eaten all that often, people but mainly mothers still cooked meals every night.   Most - but especially kids walked or rode bikes everywhere etc. etc.  And just  a generation before that ie. world war 1, depression era,  and world war 2 - an awful lot of urban Australians and probably most rural Australians had veggie gardens and lived even closer to nature and lived lives of semi or almost complete sustainability.

The point I'm making is that you don't have to go back all that far to reflect on how much our lifestyles have changed.  

Ny19 was semi seduced by the dropping out of society romance of 1960/1970 hippydom - think I liked the clothes, music, hairstyleSs, or some bloke or something,  but not too sure I would've been thinking too deeply on any ideology at that time.  

Hell found life hard enough with 3 babies under 4 living in the suburbs surrounded by public servants - so darn sure I woild have been a shocker at self-sufficiency and babies!  So well done.

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