Yes.

The whole point but negative gearing is that the top end of town use it to get tax deductions to lower their (high) taxable income and later taking the capital gain.  Its an investment tool the waelthy would hate to lose but don't worry.  Every time they lose one another is put in place for them.  This time will be no different and it is my hope that Shorten kills the offshore tax shelters which are no more than blatant tax evasion vehicles.

Grandfathering? I can see the merit in that. A bit unfair coming after taxpayers who have made decisions with existing legislation.  The fault is not entirely theirs but does fall into the lao of politicians who KNOW something is crooked but fail to act.  That is where Tax Havens sit.

I'm sure a number of MPs own rental property.  Hockey does.  So do a couple of Labor MPs.  The only argument one might have is not having an arm's length between government and business.  A grey area perhaps.

Removing franking credits might be palatable if government topped up the income of self funded retirees so that they earned at least the equivalent of the pension.  Tha's be fair.  CGT?  Scrapping that is equivalent to making people pay tax on inflation, which is wrong.  I'd like to see what happened if deflation arrives...... 

You see MICK, where I have a problem with your posts is the generality. You state that the top end of town uses it to get tax deductions to lower their (high) taxable income which may be correct but your inference is that only the top end of town enjoys that privilege. New figures show that 62 per cent of people who use negative gearing were on taxable incomes of less than $80,000, not what I would call the "top end of town".

You seem to be confused about the CGT. You say that the top end of town gets negative gearing and later takes the capital gain. It seems that you have conflated negative gearing and CGT when each is a stand alone tax entity. Those who enjoy negative gearing may still be required to pay CGT. If Labor scraps CGT, it will have the opposite effect of what you say. CGT at present requires tax of profit on anything other than the family home after allowing for some inflation.

Total con job OM.  Dispicable!

We both know that the top end of town enjoys most of the benefits of negative gearing by a country mile.  Go get some figures before you claim otherwise.  Not you?  Of course.  You can't supply any genuine figures.  As always talk!

I'm not at all confused about the different taxes.  What I am saying is that the top end of town bleeds the country dry.  Just like Turnbull's recent tax cuts somebody on $80,000 got a $500 cut whilst somebody on $180,000 got a $7,600 cut.  Please tell me both enjoyed a tax cut.  Your rhetoric is straight from the Turnbull BS book.

You need to stop deceiving the readers OM.

Mick - are you thick? Dont answer that 

Its called marginal tax rates . Duh 

Lets play the shell game.  Which shell is the marble under?

Your reputation on this website is already well established dear troll.

Nong!  Rudd upped the bank deposit guarantee so that AUstralian banks would not fail during the GFC as did some American banks.  Your employer would have done the same.

If you check further MICK, the expert opinion was that the government didn't need to guarantee our financial institutions as they had not traded in junk bonds and therefore were not in danger of failing. Rudd insisted on guaranteeing them and charged a healthy fee for that privilege.

Seriously, you are full of it today OM. 

Rudd guaranteed the banks so that there would not be a run on them. 

You need to stop running fake information.

Only one talking bulldust is you Mick

Rudd was a complete moron. They good money at windmills

You're looking in the mirror.

MICK, you either have very little understanding of those events or are suffering brain freeze? Rudd was hounded into action on this by Turnbull who raised it in Parlaiment every day. The other activist was Ken Henry, who was being nudged by his mother, who in turn was being pursuaded by the lady's morning tea auxiliary. If the increase in the deposit guarantee had the sole purpose of not causing a run on funds on banks then it acheived that. However, it did cause a run on funds elsewhere. My point is, this was not an unintended consequence. The 4 pillars as you know are half owned by overseas institutions like JP Morgan, and others so it was in the best interest of the USA Fed to tip in a few billion to a couple of our banks.

You are posting for the LNP.  Your employer.

I am involved in the financial markets and FULLY understand how they work.  The only thing you have right is in regard to overseas bank ownership.  Indeed American companies own much of our bank stock.

The rest of your comment is tripe and your attempt to trivialise history is what the right does to misintertret inconvenient history. That's because your government and its supporters have no integrity and not an honest bone in their entire miserable bodies.  Your posts demonstrate that and that's why you have no credibility on this website other than from the other paid staff of your party playing tag.

Hey take it easy Rambo! I'm not saying anything of a kind. You have a comprehension issue. I actually complimented you on being knowledgeable. LOL Although, your judgement is clouded by your political bias. 

Just a small point, George, whilst I agree with a cap, the figure $1M may apply to most of Australia but Sydney and Melbourne have fibro 3BR homes worth more than that. That is also why I don't believe that the family home should be included in the asset test for pensioners.

I agree OM that the family home must never be included in the asset test, in fact the asset test itself should  be scrapped. My suggestion of a cap is for Investment properties only, much like a threshhold for income tax, to limit how much an investor can gain from taxpayer's money. Sure they can buy more expensive investment properties, but the taxpayer support needs to be capped.

Labor did casue a significant problem with boat arrivals and immigration without limit.  The brain dead Greens (Sarah Hanson-Young) did likewise by demanding a literal bridge be built and limitless immigration should occur for the "poor people".  Stupidity without end.

I'd be thinking Labor has learnt a valuable lesson:  you do not disregard the will of the people.  After 2 terms in opposition Labor knows full well what will happen to them should they try it on. They won't.

I don't believe that, MICK, as they seem to be beyond learning. Chris Bowen is a good reason as already explained. I have a strong feeling that he actually doesn't want to win (maybe doesn't want the actual responsibility) hence he keeps coming up with dud policies - with this Negative Gearing one being yet another example. Besides that, Tanya only wants to compete with the Greens to push the radical gender ideology. And Shorten, a career Unionist, is all over the place with no direction, only opportunistic stabs at populist, divisive ideas which haven't been thought through.

We have a really bad Liberal Govt, yet we have a horrible Labor party who also can't seem to take the opportunity to work for the people. Repeating, best option is to turf them ALL out - Libs, Labor & Greens.

whilst I agree with your summation I cannot agree with some of your reasoning George. This Labor lot may not be the best but you may be judging it on personalities of the few and its leader. Shorten does not come across as the sharpest tool in the shed but may actually do a good job if he has the right people behind him.

Negative gearing? That one needs reforming for real estate as it is fuelling property booms and locking out young Australians.  Franking credits?  That one needs to be significantly scaled back.  The current government?  A coal sponsored rich man's bunch of low life thieves put into office by the likes of Murdoch and Sokes to serve their and other rich interests.

I'd love to see a parliament flooded with Independents.  That way you get government.  At this time Labor appears the only real alternative though as at the very lease the rich man's club will be stalled untilnext time.  That is our choice to make but unless we want to be a clone of America complete with abject poverty at one end and opulent unbelievable wealth at the other what choice do we have?

"Labor did casue a significant problem with boat arrivals and immigration without limit."

"I'd be thinking Labor has learnt a valuable lesson:" - MICK.

MICK 'significant' is a fairly soft description. It was much more than that. Our sovreignity had been breached. Listen to the ACTU and other Unions' rhetoric and tell me what lesson they have learned?

How many people arrived at airports and disappeared into the community?  Leaves the boat arrivals in its wake.  The issue with boar arrivals is that this paints a picture we do not like to see so please end the nonsense.

Labor has been crucified once and they's be stupid to go there again as they'd be out very quickly.

You may have noticed Shorten has said he will work with the NEG but with a larger renewable component.  Same deal.  He's learnt!

MICK, you mentioned boat arrivals. Under Labor the people smugglers had infiltrated our immigration department. There were at least 200,000 ilegals who flew in. Another reason why Australian's booted your mates out on their derrieres. Shorten will say what people want to hear. He's good at that. 

And by the way MICK, we are now seeing the results of Labor's incompetence on our streets just as we saw the poor little kids drowning. We need a government which is far more compassionate, not one which tells us they are.

how does that work, I thought Negative Gearing only applies when the assett is sold?

There's a limit to how much rent people can pay.  No wage increases, increasing cost of living.  Work it out.

80 plus, negative gearing is based on income whilst Capital Gains Tax works on sale of assets.

MICK, as I have said before, wages have increased year on year for decades. To keep pushing the party line that there have been no wage increases is a lie.

You need to do your research OM.  Perhaps I needed to be more elequent because what I meant was that wages have not 'increased' enough to pay the bills.  The dodgy massaged CPI figures are a total joke and they are similar to figures released by the Chinese regime:  fake.

You might want to read the following which is one of a number of information sources which are NOT aligned with your party but which crank out genuine news:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/12/imf-says-australia-has-one-of-the-fastest-rising-income-inequality-rates

Morrison is said to have refused to release the Treasury analysis which showed the reality.  The reason?  Because Australia has one of the world's highest inequality rates as measured by the Gini scale.

You claim I'm running the party line.  I'm not, but your are. I thought you had more integrety than this....but then an election is coming and you appear to be reading from the LNP script again.

The Guardian is toilet paper

Aligned to labor

Kids straight out of Uni are getting $80k jobs

Worthless public nservants get 3-4 % pay rises year on year 

Our corporations have to increase wages to hire and retian staff in this age of full employment thanks to LnP pro growth policies 

Not right Lothario. Lower Level federal public servants went for more than 3 years without any pay rise, then it’s been capped at 2%. Their wages have gone backwards since the Libs came in.  Not many kids straight out of Uni get $80k either, but maybe facts just get in the way of a good story

Federal public servants should get a pay cut and the work force halved 

Then maybe they would be worth 50% of what they get paid 

Here's the Trump sound-a-like calling fake news.  Whenever something does not agree with you it is 'fake news' but you cannot sunstantiate ANYTHING you say.  That's how trolls work.

Yes, better to give bank executives obscene bonuses of over $2 million even while the Royal Commission has found reprehensible behaviour

Who says it is only property?  That would be counterproductive.

What do you mena by "labor buying up big"?  The Party?  Individuals?  If so who?

Good one MICK, you are allowed to make allegations without substance but if anyone chooses to malign your bosses then you demand proof.

It was a question?  I was not aware that only property was up for grabs.

You seem to be getting yourself a bit upsey OM.  Maybe you need to chill out and get back to basics.  Avoid the lies/propaganda.  You'll go a long way.

Sounds like electioneering for the LNP LJ.  You may wish to add tax cuts for the rich and attacks on retirees which never seem to end.  Discuss the family home this lot are dying to bring into the assets test.  Coming if they get elected again.

MICK,

I am not and have never been a member of any political party and nor am I aligned to any.  I believe there is a schism between most long term Labor supporters, the conservative Labor members if you would have it that way and the trendies and opportunists, the Fabian 'Progressives', who have hijacked the Labour Party.

Arguably, many if not most of the aspirational mums and dads property investors are traditional Labor supporters.  But Shorten and his ilk love to hate them.  How does that figure?  When will the penny drop with those hereto loyal Labor voters?

Your alternative?  The LNP? How would you like to be really poor?  The game plan of the current lot.

I also do not love Labor despite being a defacto supporter.  Its just that I can see what the current lot are doing and do not want to see working Australians enslave themselves.

You might have a look at the latest from the current batch who are still trying to gain access to your personal information on the pretext of 'terrorism'.  If they succeed then you'll find every two bit public servant will be able to read your emails if they feel like it....and that is but the start.

If you want to discuss terrorism and other subjects go right ahead and start a new thread.  This thread is about Labor's negative gearing, so let's stick to that.  Otherwise, some might believe that you have no relevant arguments to offer and are just throwing in some red herrings.

Shorten is playing the class warfare card that failed Gillard before (and Shorten and others were in the Gillard government at the time).  Negative gearing will hurt all of those aspirational low-income earners who do not want to invest in shares (for obvious reasons).  They sacrifice their lifestyles to buy existing property to improve and rent for decades in the hope of a capital gain through inflation one day (which is taxed!), and it is these low-income mums and dads investors who are providing the shelter that Labor has NO intention whatsoever of providing when in government. 

Shorten and his 'Progressive' trendies want the power of government to fiddle with social policies.  They are a long way from the Labor Party that those mums and dads investors and other workers and small businesspeople have supported for years.

Just trying to paint a picture of what you may be supporting LJ.

Your claims of Class Warfare is what Trump does:  makes the same accusation at his accures to confuse the audience.  If you want class warfare then simply look at WHO is being sowered with taxpayer money. In case you missed it the top end of society which has been doing really well for the past 10 years got tax cuts they did not need.  Then Turbull cried into the microphone because he could not also get company tax cuts.  FYI the rich all have private companies!

If you do not have the stomach to invest in shares directly buy a managed fund.  That is essentially what superannuation funds do.  Great returns! 

My wife and I won rental property and shares and we will be negatively affected by Shorten's policy on franking credits.  I believe Shorten will have to make some provision for retirees or else he'll be a one election government.

Your claim about Shorten "fiddling" with social policies has brought up a smile.  In case you have not noticed the current lot are wanting to destitute every AUstralian other than the wealthy top end.  Retirees have been a continuing target.

MICK,

You continue to sidestep the looming catastrophe awaiting the millions of low- to middle-income earners who have put their money, sweat and hopes into bricks and mortar.  They provide shelter for their family and for others.

For millions, it is the home and for some, a small established rental property, that provides the best egg for the loss of earnings, for ill health, for the education of children and for works end one day (coming sooner than later for many).  That was at the strong encouragement of successive governments and particularly Labor, who repeatedly advised the public to provide for themselves because the federal government could not afford pensions or aged care, and government was withdrawing from welfare housing (that it could not afford and could not manage).  

Your 'I'm alright Jack' attitude does not wash.  Beaut that you find shares and managed funds so profitable, but others do not have your claimed expertise and luck.

Now, what about an answer to at least one of the questions you are sidestepping? 

Shorten and his elite middle class 'Progressives' are a long way from the Labor Party those mums and dads investors and other workers and small businesspeople have supported for years.  Their (Shorten and his elite) insensitivity, arrogance and lack of compassion for the millions of ordinary public who have their nest egg in real estate will rebound on Labor.  But not before Shoten and political mates have travelled the globe (remember Rudd and Gillard) and stitched up jolly good golden handshakes courtesy of the taxpayer.

My wife and I are real estate investors.  Your suggestion is wrong but we acknowledge that Labor may cost us a few dollars but this will not be the end of the world.  You are running a scare campaign LJ.

You have no answers though.  Mums and dads investors - many of whom are traditional Labor voters - are to be the collateral damage of the Shorten's wedge politics.  The sacrifices for the cultural war that gets Bill Shorten and those elite middle class 'Progressives' into power. 

My answer would be to write to Labor MPs and tell them the effect on retirees who are not millionaires and who have planned for their retirements and will not be a burden on taxpayers in the future.

Cc to as many MPs as possible.

A further suggestion is to ask for the policy to be tweaked by either setting a threshold on franking credits or supplementing retirees who fall short of earning the equivalent of the pension with top ups.  That would be proactive and will gain acceptance if enough of us do it.  The olds saying: 'bad things happen when good people do nothing'.

Ha ha ha.  Trolls at work!

NOBODY could be worse than the current lot which have run up th enational debt.  Labor left $148 billion and now it is up to $600 billion.

Labor will restore the income/earnings equilibrium and stop the attack on young people who have for the most part been forced into slavery/low paid jobs.  Funny how you never mention any of these things.

No panic Micha.  Some of Labor's policy will affect us as well but as I have always done I support what is good for the country.

Tax cuts for rich citizens did nothing for the country other than ignore the debt.

Killing off franking credits will hurt the big end of town and end taxpayer funded speculation which the big end of town are good at.  Of course some of us small fry will be hit as well.  That's life.

Removing the CGT discount will hurt all investors because governments will happily ask investors to pay tax on inflation.  The game plan!  Great for greedy governments.

Increasing interest rates and restricting access to funds will be the biggest disruptor in the rental market.  There may be falling prices if both occur but young people will not be able to access loans so what will change.

We live in a tough world Micha.  The system, as always, is set up for well off Australians who have a high paying job.  That is the real tragedy. The wealth transfer may have started with tax cuts for the wealthy but if the above happen along with this wicked government's wish to put the familu home into the assets test then watch the wealth transfer accelerate and average Australians be asset stripped.

Those who vote LNP would have to be rusted ons or be brain dead.  When its gone its gone.

Good points there MICK. Yes everyone will be affected, but look I'm not too bothered. I am more concerned with the younger buyers having a chance to own their own home. I have no idea how I am going to vote this time, but I can say I have no faith in Morrison.

Morrison is but the figure head.  What you need to be afraid of is who controls this government and what the ongoing game plan is.  Few people look at those things but it keeps me awake at night.  Not pretty.

Removal of negative gearing will have no impact on poperty prices

Wrong Lottie, a great percentage of Aussies will be better off. 

a great percentage of Aussies will be better off.

Wrong Mitty, no one will be better off. Renters will be worse off

More BS from the same nong.

Investors have already dropped off because of access to money.  If you then add less taxpayer support they'll find more lucrative investments.  Basic mathematics.

Rents?  They did not go up in the Keating era when he removed negative gearing for a short period of time.

I don't know who you are Lothario but seriously mate you are stupid.

I think excluding real estate property from the negative gearing rules will have the effect of pushing up property prices, which in turn will push up rents. This affect will intensify as interest rates rise. Currently our governments own about 4% of the country's dwellings. The cost of substantially increasing the states' property holdings would need to be seriously considered. NG on property was designed to prop up the housing construction industry, if you think it has been successful then it follows removing that incentive would have the reverse effect? A reduced incentive will impact on construction slow down which will in turn push up prices and rents, until it gets to a level that becomes attractive again. There will be a rush to build once again, kicking off the next cycle. This next cycle will coincide with interest rates rising to counter a booming share market, which will make it that much more difficult to house everyone. A future Labor goverment will then increase subsidies on rents for half the population. Considering at current levels only 30% of dwellings are rented, its not something to look forward to.

A post from an LNP employee methinks.

Property prices can only go down without negative gearing because highly geared investors will bail out. Basic mathematics as well as supply and demand but I guess you do not understand that as you support the government line.

The slack due to a drop in private investors could and should be taken up by government which was wrong to get out of the housing game. Also, driving up population for their mates in business is one of th emajor problems we face and one of the reason why demand for property is so high.  Only 2 ways to change that.

Only 30% of dwellings are rented?  Is that what the party tolld you to write.  Total fabrication.  SHOW ME THE PROOF!

You're talking out of your bum MICK. The only way there will be a sustained drop in the price of dwellings is if we have zero immigration. Let me give you a clue where to look for answers. Try checking thedata compiled in the last census. I calculated the 30% by subtracting the 70% of dwellings occupied by owners, some of whom may have a mortgage. What I included in the 30% is the 4% owned by the public sector. Try to stay with me here MICK, because it could get a little techniqual. This leaves just 26% of dwellings rented to tenants.

The abolition of NG on RE will of course show a benefit to you in your increased price of MBP.AX shares as capital is redirected.

So now the foul mouth comes out.  The sign of an LNP stoolie!!

Zero migration would help but governments are understanding they need to provide low cost housing and investors will STILL build new house which will attract the CGT concession.  You seem to imply that all investors will sell.  Some will but most won't unless too deep under water.  They'll make a loss in that case.

Your figures do not discuss how even a small number of landlords getting out of the industry, homebuyers unable to get finance not getting in and the CGT loss to investors will cause prices to drop.  By how far I have no idea.  Neither do you.

The only thing that is in your favour is that when Keating abolished NG the market did not collapse.  With continuing demand perhaps it will hold up again, but the world is in a bad debt bind and the number of factors putting real estate on the knife edge is not the same as it was a decade ago.

I agree with you about capital flowing into the equities market.

Labor hopes to replace the cottage industry of mums and dads investment property with a rental industry where ownership and management of rental property is concentrated in the hands of large investment corporations, examples being banks, insurance companies and superannuation funds.  Most would be foreign-owned and the profits would go offshore.

The efficient and flexible small owner (mums and dads) rental housing foregoes reasonable profit taken today, relying on the prospect of a capital gain many years in the future.  That capital gain is usually only capital gain due to inflation and is taxed.

However, the large investment companies that Labor wants to replace small public investors with will be looking to make and increase their profits today.  Otherwise, their shareholders would revolt.  Given that such big companies have high overheads (their CEOs earn millions for a start), it is obvious that rents would have to increase and risks reduced markedly.  Guess what reducing and managing the risks of rental housing would involve?

Shorten and his middle class 'Progressive' elite will have gained their entitlements, the golden handshakes, especially from the taxpayer and they will be stepping into other roles and refusing to acknowledge the damage they have caused when the proverbial hits the fan