Liar, liar, Pants on Fire

People are such liars.

Not you, of course; always truthful, always honest, never wavering from the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

As for me, I remember my first whopper. I stood at the garden path, watching the paddock beyond the fence dance with flames, black smoke rising like mushrooms, hawks dashing and darting for escaping fauna. 

My mother approached.

“How did that happen?” She asked

“I have no idea, “ I lied.

She said nothing. I knew I had lied. She knew I had as well. I knew she knew I knew I’d lied.

She took my hand and led me to the house.

“We need to talk, Tommy”, and there transpired my first lesson in the immorality of lying.

I was about four years old. I realised that my skills at lying needed improving. I had already grasped two very important concepts necessary for lying.

There are rules, and with rules there are consequences, Not all the consequences were favourable and I could avoid those distasteful outcomes by being loose with the truth; like telling fairy tales. 

The other was knowing what other people were thinking. I knew that if I told my mother a meteorite had struck the paddock and set it on fire it’s likely she wouldn’t believe considering my past history with matches.

By the time I was in my early 20’s I had accomplished a more skilful approach to lying. 

Denying the facts was a good start. “No way did I hit my sister (the dobbing bitch)!”

Omitting information came quick and easy. “I only hit he once (or thrice) ”.

Restructuring the circumstances. “Actually she ran into me!”

Lessening the impact. “It was only a tap.”

Exaggeration. “She’s always hitting me”

My favourite is to invent a story. I’m especially good at that. “ WelI, I was practicing my yoga and was completely unaware of her presence. I was just entering the virabhadrasana position, number 2 of course, when I sensed the presence of another human being at the extension on my arm”. 

 As life progressed, all seemed well enough but for two things: I discovered that other people lie as well, and my local psychiatrist suggested strongly that I might be even lying to myself. 

“Perish the thought,” I told her. “Why would I do that?”

As it turns out, there are many reasons why I might lie to myself.

Denying to myself that I’ve put on weight in spite of the shrink fairy entering my wardrobe while I sleep for starters. Remaining oblivious to the dangers of riding a motorbike when I was young and stupid comes to mind. Believing I could give up smoking ‘just like that’ if I chose to. So glad I got some help on that issue. Locking myself into the self-perpetuating and cyclic state of not exercising because it hurt. Then there’s the life long lie that I was an independent agent with no responsibilities, to discover later that everyone saw me as quite the opposite. Bugger!

There are a couple I avoided, thankfully. Like, Cherry Picking for example. You know what I mean. Picking out the facts you like and ignoring the ones you don’t like. A science education helped with that one. 

Fortunately for all of us there’s an up side, except you, of course. You don’t actually lie; right? It turns out that lying is an instinctive process and is best carried out by the more intelligent of us. That’s my interpretation and I’m sticking to it. The facts are that lying produces a great deal of activity in the frontal lobe of the cerebral cortex. That’s where all the planning and logic takes place. Good on me!

Lying is also a rather complex process, more so than just telling the plain old truth. See, I told you I was smart.

Along with the upside there’s a down side. The older we get the worse at lying we become. That’s not to say we lie more. It’s that we lie poorly. People begin to see though our deceit. Shame, really. Just when I thought I was getting away with so much.

I might consider relying on just telling White Lies, whatever that means. A lie is a lie, is it not? Or I could deny that I even tell lies, although it’s a bit late for that, don’t you think?

 

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black smoke rising like mushrooms??? like a nuclear explosion???

It’s a metaphor, ABE. You know. Looks like but not is. Just as a nuke going off doesn’t produce mushrooms. Just looks like one.

but you knew all that. Right?

"Black smoke rising like mushrooms" (simile not metaphor).

Could become a metaphor though by changing the construction of the sentence

For example .."mushrooms of black smoke" (metaphor)

You are so right, Sophie. How absent minded of me. My great grand daughter will admonish me if she finds out.

@ The dingo

My congratulations on having such an astute great grand daughter!

Lying is cowardice at any age, be it 4 or 40 or whatever. No excuses ever!

You might not even be aware that you are lying, Ny19.

Mythomania describes the compulsion to lie, often unbeknown to the liar.

Even if you’re not compulsive, denying your ability to lie or denying the existence of any lies you might have told is in itself a lie.

excuse isn’t necessary. Lying is innate.

Youre stuck with it, like it or not.

I disagree The dingo. To tell someone the truth is to respect their strength and ability to hear it. To lie to them is to assume they are fragile and will not cope. 

Further, it suggests that you will not cope if someone else hears your truth.


@ The dingo

Quote “lying is innate”.. yes, I support that theory. Mind you, there are many shades between a truth and a lie. By the time most children are four, they have acquired the ability to deceive others, a skill critical to survival (Charles Darwin). Taking that into account, it would seem, if children do not lie as well as tell the truth..how will they ever know the difference?

Lying is instinctive, but there are various stages of lying..the lies we tell to avoid causing others pain, people tell lies for self-protection. Most lies are harmless enough..there are “acceptable” lies and “forbidden” lies, according to psychologists. It only becomes a problem when dangerous lies are told, those that try to defame others and cause harm are telling dangerous lies. 

I would put mythomania into a different category though..in my opinion, not everyone who lies is a mythomaniac. This group tend to lose credibility and are mostly regarded as untrustworthy. According to some recent research by the University of Southern California, mythomaniacs have less grey matter (responsible for processing information) and more white matter (transmits information) in the prefrontal cortex of the brain. Scientists believe that this abnormal brain structure could be one cause of this urge to lie constantly. Although scientists agree that mythomania is not a “stand alone” illness, it accounts for a set of symptoms present in personality disorders.

Those who profess never to lie and preach truthfulness at all times..are..the biggest liars of all time. Everyone is guilty of lying sometimes.


I'm thinking of times when lying seems the safer option.

"Does my bum look big it this?"

"What a cute baby"

"It wasn't me that farted"

"I'll get it in a minute"

"You go first. I have all the time in the world"

" Sorry. I don't have any change." (to a beggar) 

"Really!. I'm OK!" 

"You're always exaggerating"

"Moi? Lie?"

 

 

Its not that people lose their skill to lie as they age. Its that to lie well and get away with it requires an equal, if not better, ability to remember to whom you have told what! When you lose that, the lies become apparant for all to see. And once someone's word is doubted in one area, it causes doubt in all others, and down comes the house of cards.

A simple truth: Liars can never be trusted. Far better always to speak the truth, with lovingkindness.

:) And then there's the rather delicious, highly entertaining and transparently ridiculous lies.

In regard to Hurricane Dorian, US President Donald Trump made a baseless claim that Alabama could be affected.

Then came Sharpiegate. In the Oval Office at lunchtime on Wednesday, US President Donald Trump held a briefing on Hurricane Dorian. At one point, the president held up a National Hurricane Centre map from August 29, displaying the hurricane’s track and intensity.

Bizarrely, someone had apparently used a Sharpie, a kind of marker pen, to add a black loop falsely extending the hurricane’s path from Florida to Alabama. It was apparently a belated effort to justify Trump’s previous baseless claim that the latter state could be affected.

So funny.

:) Reminds me of the time a neighbourhood friend of my son's used a marker pen to put "racing stripes" and a "badge" on his less than prestigious little second-hand car.

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Nice cliche, SUZE. 

What if I lie about my past?

Tom

In that case you must have a very, very good memory :)

As I read I expected you to draw a comparison with our current government.  That's the way this lot have operated for the past 6 years.

I'm relatively apolitical, MICK.

Anyone is capable of lying. Attachment to any particular political party isn't a prerequisite for lying or not.

Quite often we consciously or unconsciously accept a lie, knowing it will serve us some purpose. The more personal that purpose is the more acceptance we will have.

But this works in reverse as well. The more personal the lie the more vulnerable we feel and the greater offence we take.

Governments largely rely on the popularity of the general public. They will choose what to say depending on the current perceived mood of the public. They might also look at the projected expectations of the political environment before deciding what information they disclose or agree with.

Strangely enough, its what we all do.

Throughout this forum are many examples of people waving their own flag, supporting those with whom they agree, presenting information that supports their point of view or twisting the facts so they can verify their hypotheses.

What we need to consider so we might make an informed decision is to know what is a fallacious argument and what is not. 

lying is natural enough. Deception is another story entirely.

AHhhhhh, I get it now, you weren't lying when you said you are a "scientist", just indulging in a web of deception. 

The "lying" starts at the very top office in the land and filters down.  The right wing media deliver the propaganda to keep the crooked game going and the puppets put into all postions of power make sure the interests of the right and their wealthy owners is protected.

If you can't see that then you must be "lying".  Perhaps just politically ignorant of naive.  I don't know which.

Geez, Mick. Go have a lie down.

youve just ticked the box for every conceivable fallibility there is.

give me some facts to work on, not just hysterical hypotheticals.

keep in mind this is a democracy and rated as number 5 on the most democratic countries on the planet, or there about.

that means you get a say. But please, make sure you’re on the money and not just confabulating.

The web of deception is all yours ABE.

you can pick and choose what you want to believe. I have no control over that. Keep in mind that your fate is cast by your own hands. I’m not an arbiter  in your own dilemmas.

Bit quiet, think ding's pants caught fire, lol

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I have never told a lie and thats the truth!

The conundrum is: are you telling the truth to lying.

A person who says they will never lie to you is probably lying already. Then there is the person who can't tell the difference between fact and fiction.

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