The Meeting Place

Our Pensioners need more for Plan B

The national minimum wage is currently $18.29 per hour or $694.90 per 38 hour week (before tax). Casual employees covered by the national minimum wage also get at least a 25% casual loading.

Wage Facts. Full-time earnings in Australia averaged A$78,832 a year in the second quarter of 2016. (Seasonally adjusted wages – Bureau of Statistics.) If overtime and bonuses are included, average Australian earnings were A$81,947 per annum.

Average Salary Australia - Living in Australia

Given the above facts our pensioners are living in poverty. 

We should look at areas where our Governments waste money that could go to pensioners.

1 Below is that we pay for free GP visits regardless of wealth .... 


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Pete, I disagree with your view that welfare should be issued relative to Average Earnings. Workers earn in accordance with their level of personal exertion ipso facto, the harder they work the more surplus income they're likely to have. However, if you want to here are the most recent numbers from the ABS,


In the twelve months to May 2017, Full-Time Adult Average Weekly Ordinary Time Earnings increased by 1.8% to $1,543.80.

The Full-Time Adult Average Weekly Total Earnings in May 2017 was $1,608.40, a rise of 2.1% from the same time last year.

These figures dont support the media claims of no wage growth. 


Australia’s self  funded retirees have been conned and are now being ­punished for saving for their retirement. Someone can scrimp and save to retire on their own money and often it may not be much more than the pension. Yet they are not entitled to the pension.

On the other hand, another person can drink, smoke, party and fritter away a lifetime of income. Ironically, that person gets the good times plus a pension. So what we are telling the dissipators is, spend like there's no tomorrow, but when tomorrow comes the state will look after you. Fair? No.

Yup Banjo, so true.

Since I don't plan to retire, but to do some work of interest until ill health prevents, I expect I shall be carrying the tax load for quite a few, harumph.

What is now happening is that those self funded retirees who are say $200K over the assets limit are  withdrawing their money and the mattress is becoming higher.

They are now receiving a part pension...I know of one particular lady who has quite a sizeable amount of money stashed in a safe and is now getting a few dollars and the concession card which is what she basically wanted.

If the government had any brains they would give the concession card to all over a certain age and this would perhaps stop people doing this sort of thing.

The problem as I see it is that we have in this country developed a hand out and entitlement mentality...the government (i.e. the taxpayers) are now expected to foot the bill for just about everything...whatever happened to self reliance in this world.

There used to be more in the workforce to provide the funds for  welfare;  not any longer.  If everyone develops this "he has got it so therefore I want it as well" mentality how will the country be able to afford the ever increasing bill

Previous generations did not, in my opinion, have this mindset.

I can see lots of grumbling from the younger generation further down the road.

But this is a ''chicken and egg'' question, Radish. Which came first. My financial adviser tells me clients affected by the assets test change are spending up big and will ask for much higher pensions than they otherwise would have - because they feel cheated, and because there's simply no reward now for saving unless you can get well over that $1.2 million mark. Those with $820K to $900K might as well spend down until they have only $500K, as their savings are likely to benefit others, not them.

There IS a welfare mentality in this nation, but it's the result - to a large extent - of government policy. Having experienced long-term unemployment, I discovered how difficult the system makes it to rise above difficulties. Ultimately, I could only escape generational poverty by cheating. I'm not proud of doing that, but I have paid my dues and then some. What I did enabled me to employ dozens of people in a business I built.

If we want to eliminate the welfare mentality, we need to restructure our welfare systems to provide incentives and rewards, and to stop punishing endeavour.




After watching the episodes of Struggle Street there is one solution to poverty  ...EDUCATION

Kids not being able to read and write in this day and age is appalling!

They will never get jobs and in future the jobs available now will not be there anyway, so we will see more generational poverty unless people are educated.



Amazon U.S. has something like approx.  43,000 - 80,000  Robots working in their many warehouses etc.  across the U.S.  So do car manufacturers!

Robots are now doing intricate and invasive surgery in top hospitals worldwide!!

"Sex-bots"  are looking almost like humans and they are currently rolling them out in Silicon Valley at a cost of approx. $8,000 each  - they can even be programmed to "talk dirty"!   (for men of course!!)  

Robots are icing thousands of Mudcakes a day in the U.S.  lol  True!

Robots will take over most factory/warehouse/manufacturing jobs!  Only jobs that will be there in the thousands are "Coding/Techno." geek jobs keep all the Robots working to their capacity!  Scary huh?   lol      :-) 

The Fed Govt should not send the billions of dollars overseas for welfare reasons. They should also peel back the subsidies given to Illegal immigrants. We should look after the people who have worked hard all their lives to support their families long before Super was introduced in Australia. "Charity begins at Home" is the adage I was raised hearing. Im now 57. I think the Card idea should be given to all young people who have been unemployed for a long time, that way they wont be wasting the money on alcohol & cigarettes

Agree 100% !!   ...... you forgot to add "drugs" ....     :-)

Finding billions to improve conditions for retirees is simple. Just stop throwing it at the rich in the form of huge superannuation tax concessions. Superannuation tax concessions cost more annually than the aged pension, and the major benefit goes to high income earners. If you earn a very small income, you get ZERO concession. You might even pay more tax on your superannuation contributions than on your other income. If you earn a huge salary, the government gives you a massive tax deduction to enable you to accumulate millions in superannuation that you will then draw down TAX FREE in retirement.  The government knows this is wrong. It has been advised over and over to change it, but it refuses because it is more concerned with handing out to the wealthy than solving economic or social problems.

Australia spends just 4% of GDP on the aged, compared to 8 - 9% by other developed nations. Moreover, Australia's spend will NOT increase between now and 2050, whereas other developed nations will spend more each year. The claims of the OAP being unaffordable are lies. The claims that the cost is increasing due to higher numbers of aged compared to number of workers are lies.

Australia can very comfortably afford a more generous aged pension. It can raise the aged pension AND drastically reduce (or almost eliminate) the national debt with the stroke of a pen - just by reforming grossly unfair superannuation tax concessions. The problem isn't where to find the money. It's how to convince greedy politicians and their selfish rich supporters to do what is right for the nation instead of encirhcing themselves at everyone else's expense.

The obvious impact of the unfair tax concessions on superannuation is that the low wage earner cannot possibly accrue enough to fund retirement and will rely on a pension in old age, while the high income earner will have mega-millions to live in luxury, TAX FREE. Now how does that make any sense at all to any logical thinker?

The max you can have in a SMSF in draw done mode is 1.6 m 

Frank, believing in capitalism doesn't fund retirement. Plenty of struggling low wage earners believe in capitalism, and they are exploited and abused by it and end up poor.
Inequality has been recognized as a major economic and social problem, and it may well prove the nail in the coffin of capitalism. You can't keep pushing wealth to the top and have a healthy society. Yes, it's fine for a small percentage of people to have a greater proportion of global wealth, but when it reaches the obscene levels it's at now, and when the middle class is crushed and the poor are continually sinking further and further into poverty, we have to find ways to even things out a little or watch the social and economic structure crumble,

Yes, we should be more concerned with how wealthy people use their great wealth. And that's the problem. They are using it to build more. They are stashing it in tax havens. They are demanding more and more tax concessions. They are claiming privileged status should exempt them from paying for the resources they consume. They are blaming the poor for poverty and lobbying to make life harder for the poor, instead of acknowledging both the capacity and the obligation to give back sufficiently to preserve a healthy society.

I agree that the real issue is the concentration of power. It was too easy for Elon Musk to waltz into SA and sell a $100m battery bank. A world record sale of batteries. But our political leaders can blame nobody but themselves. It would be a far different outcome if our political leaders made better use of the taxes they get from the wealthy. 

Keating taxed our super savings 

Howard paid Family tax credits which took people on average wage out of net tax.

They are support paying the minimum wage to those already receiving maternity leave payments from their employer .

They all support free GP visits for the wealthy .

Save this money and give it to our pensioners .

Fair enough, Brocky, but be careful how you define ''wealthy''. Some here claim those with $825K+ (for a couple) in retirement savings are ''wealthy'', yet in reality they may be far worse off than those with hundreds of thousands less, because they receive no concessions or benefits and while their savings appear healthy, those who didn't save that much are handed cash that makes them, ultimately, far better off - without them having had to make sacrifices to save.

The system needs a total overhaul to (1) raise the standard of living for the poorest; (2) make it fairer and restore incentives and rewards for saving; (3) acknowledge the right and benefit of people passing on wealth to future generations - because social mobility is healthy and builds general prosperity.

We only have to modify the grossly inequitable and economically unsustainable superannuation tax concession system to afford these beneficial changes. We don't have to compromise access to medical care. In fact, we don't have to do anything except increase the spend on retirees to the average spend in developed nations, though personally I'd prefer to see common sense measures that reduce the national debt and reduce inequality, because inequality will destroy our society if it continues to increase.  It is the enemy of capitalism, and the enemy of social health.


The Swiss have one of the best pension schemes in the world

Anyone who lives and works in Switzerland (employed or self-employed) over the age of 20 must make compulsory Swiss social security contributions to AHV Switzerland. Anyone who has made compulsory contributions to the AHV for at least one full year can claim a Swiss pension.

The scheme encourages people to save and work whereas our system just gives people the sense of entitlement of "gimmy gimmy" attitude.

Very true, Suze. We have a STUPID system that conveys the message ''Bludge, manipulate, cheat, or spend like a drunken sailor and we'll give you about $1 million to retire on (depending on how long you live). Work hard and save well but fail to get very rich - and we'll take half it off you to give to people who didn't!''

Really UNFAIR and DUMB!

Here's where to easily find the money to pay sensible pensions, and some LOGICAL argument as to why throwing $65 billion at big corporations is STUPID.

Sign the petition folks.

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