Removal of gender from birth certificates

Tasmanian Labor and Greens are on the verge of removing gender from birth certificates.

In NSW in 2011 a lesbian couple successfully applied to a court to have a biological father's name replaced with that of one of the couple's.

(1) What price if any might the children and society pay later?

(2) Will gender fluidity become a priority for a Shorten Labor government and what initiatives might be taken?

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39 comments

 

 

 

Yep I'm all for doing away with the paper trail. No birth certificates, nothing to argue about. All humans should be microchipped. If a child attempts to leave home, we can find them in a flash and return them to their loving parents of any sex. It can also help us to find our lost pets.

Microchipping could be used for finding out about bad diseases, our history could be stored on the chip. That's the way of the future. Wonder how much it costs?

 

Yes Micha, then we would all be sure to be a chip off the old block!

 

Yes we have had our pets micro chipped.

 

Anyone that agrees with humans being Micro chipped have rocks in their heads -- do you want to be tracked and have known every darn thing you do -- it is bad enough now -- AND remember they can turn OFF the chip as well as ON and they can also cause heart attacks via them as well there are A LOT of things can be done via a chip -- 

And please don't say

"if you are doing the right thing it doesn't matter"  as many do say because I ask those people would you leave your doors windows open and allow people to see everything you do in your own home or where ever you go -- I wouldn't and I have a pretty boring life these days, --compared to others  -- but I do enjoy my privacy --

Not fantasy any more Micha. In Sweden thousands of people have micro chipped themselves. At my age, I am not bothered one way or the other.

As for heart attacks, new medical technology is saving lives from fatal heart attacks by inserting microchips in the patient!

A child should have the right to know who their biological father or mother is, this is nonsense.

 

It would be a huge mistake to elect Labor and the Greens just for this reason alone!

All children have a right to have both the father and mother as well as their sex, which is part of their Identity, recorded on their birth certificates. Any watering down of this is taking society down into the gutter. Those who don't agree must not be allowed to have children, as the child's rights are far more important than their own stupid "preferences".

Typical of these damn minorities, why don't they pull their queer heads in.

Oh for s**t sake, are many of you old fa**s likely to live beyond the next thirty years? Why is this such a bone of contention. How will it affect your lives? The world is a very different place to what you grew up in, that God!!!!!!!!

I couldn't care less who's gay, straight or wobbley, you shouldn't either. None of your business, none of my business. For once the Labor and Greens are doing something constructive. As for the topic heading, they do not propose removing "gender" from the BC, they are hoping to remove sex. Not a big deal. 

Wanker

 

You should talk, look at your face "wanker"straight back at you.

Move back to the dark ages, one eye.

Ray you are obviously a labour greens lover .if either of those get into goverment we will be stuffed wtih then intrudicing death taxes remove the franking credits from those who earn just a little better than the pension hitting us with a capital gains tax if we sell a few of our shares to pay our bills and probably introducing many other taxes unless you are very wealthy you should reconsider

If it's none of our business why did we have to vote on SSM. We may be old but we are not brain dead, and the day we give up interest in what's happening in the world would be a sad one. 

Quote: If it's none of our business why did we have to vote on SSM.

That's because people made it their business and the government wanted to please the majority.

I have nothing against any Gay or whatever person but every person has the right to know their genetics and have their sex put on the birth Cert' -- there is normally a box for -- MALE FEMALE or OTHER  surely that is enough

No Ray I will not live for the next 30 years -- and the world is a much different place to what I grew up in

SADLY  as it was a safer more honest and good place then -- sure we never had the technical things we have now -- but what you don't have you don't miss

So do not talk about things YOU know nothing about!

The world is today significantly less dangerous than it used to be.  Most of us will die of old age, not in a hail of bullets. But that is useless news to some who prefer to live on a diet of fear and refuse to even look at statistics.

https://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_is_the_world_getting_better_or_worse_a_look_at_the_numbers?language=en

 

I can assure you PlanB, Ray knows exactly what he is talking about.

Yes Plan B I agree.

Certainly will not be living for another 30 years!  Gosh add 30 to my age and it makes me laugh!

Some technical things we are better off without, I am always hearing about how people are diagnosed with brain tumors because they are using mobile phones.  I think researchers are always trying to improve our health but other scientific facts/findings are making it more difficult for the medical researchers.

Seems to be it is a catch 22 situation.

Sadly I was told this week about a friends child, a mother who has 3 types of cancer.  She has everything to live for but fate has put three hurdles in front of her to jump.

Banjo there are a hell of a lot of YOUNG -- very YOUNG people with cancers these days that have NO hope of living to an  old age -- there are more cancers around now that there ever were --

What's the advantage of changing the birth certificates? 

I think they should be left alone.

 

FOR ANY GIVEN CHILD, WE CAN’T PREDICT WITH CERTAINTY WHAT GENDER IDENTITY OR SEXUAL ORIENTATION SHE OR HE WILL GROW UP TO HAVE, EVEN IF THE CHILD IS RAISED IN A VERY SEX-ROLE-STRICT CULTURE.

What that means is: The sex on a baby’s birth certificate is generally based on what their genitals look like, but this is only part of what makes a boy a boy and a girl a girl. The other part of the story is: there are also the ovaries or testes, the mix of hormones and the pattern of the chromosomes. Variations in any of these physical characteristics means bodies don’t fall into the binary categories that make up conventional sex definitions. 

I was talking to a couple of transgender people at my Uni the other day and they informed me that for the transgender and intersex communities, removing "sex" from birth certificates just makes life less complicated. Having a gender identity that does not match the sex designation on a birth certificate can create confusion and potentially expose people to discrimination when an identity document is requested, such as when they register at a school or university or apply for a passport. Birth certificates are also used to accumulate identity “points” for anything from applying for a credit card to commencing a job. If that is the case, then I see no useful purpose in denying this “minority” such a change.

It's amazing how so many people can contribute to a thread and not read the comments a few have already made which explain this. 

What absolute nonsense "I see no useful purpose in denying this “minority” such a change." What about a brother marrying his sister, or first cousins marrying?

It is obvious that the advocates of this have never done any genealogy work. 

Read my post below. Your "genealogy" red herring has nothing to do with the question of removing the word "sex"from the BC.

In NSW in 2011 a lesbian couple successfully applied to a court to have a biological father's name replaced with that of one of the couple's.

LJ

I’m afraid you did some false and misleading reporting regarding the above. As far as I am aware, a sperm donor does not have legal parenting responsibilities and therefore cannot make decisions about the child's education or medical needs, even if a court grants visitation rights and he is on the birth certificate.

The “father” in question answered the same sex couple's advertisement in a magazine, they agreed he should be involved in his daughter's life but exactly how was never decided. The biological father may consider he has certain rights but as he himself admitted, there was NO agreement before the birth of the child that he would be on the birth register when he decided to donate his sperm.

It is not possible under NSW law to have three parents with legal responsibilities. Had the father had sexual intercourse with the woman who bore the child or married her, he would have gained that legal status. As far as I can see, no contractual agreement was made and although I feel sorry for him, he hasn’t got a leg to stand on. Let that be a warning to donors, make firm legal arrangements before embarking on sperm donation if you want to be in the child’s life.

Banjo,

I have quoted the Law Report [click for link]

Reference your use of inverted commas for 'father', if he wasn't the biological father, who was?  

Bad law or bad decision, it is completely out of touch with public (and medical) expectations.

If you ever want me to take you seriously, you have to be precise in your quoting.

I did not put biological father in inverted commas.

I put "father" in inverted commas. 

I quoted you exactly and posed the question which you are ducking, "If he wasn't the biological father, who is?".

“Ducking” ? Never ducked anything in my life. Were you there when the sperm donor donated his sperm and were you present to see whether the correct sperm was used? If you do some research into deliberate mix ups in some fertility clinics  or even read articles on the bad practice at some clinics,you may come to the understanding that nothing is 100% verified. That was the reason for the “father” quote.  Can you be 100% certain he is the biological father? There is always an element of doubt in everything.

ps: show me proof that a paternity test was done.

I, like many people, have a genetic gene defect that makes me prone to certain rare cancers. It is a defect that I, had a 50%  chance of getting from the carrier (either my mother or father), as did my siblings. As it happened, I drew the short straw. My offspring also had a 50% chance of receiving the gene. because a tumour manifested itself in me, my kids and my siblings were able to get tested early, and thus, if necessary receive early scanning and, if necessary treatment. I, unfortunately, not being aware of the gene, did not receive treatment until irreparable damage had been done. The Tasmanian proposal could prove disastrous for some in my family's position.

Sceptic,

Agreed

My urologist has directed that my sons and their doctors be advised of a prostate cancer risk.  The male descendants should be having regular PSA blood tests from age 40 at the latest.

Similarly there is a bowel cancer risk that cannot be taken lightly and advises tests and lifestyle changes (for life).

Gay sensitivities are being placed above the health (and emotional) rights of children.

You are 100% right LJ --  checks from the age of 40 for sure ---

 

Image result for tasmanian record of birth example

 

The above is a specimen of a Tasmanian Birth Certificate which I believe is still in use presently.

Note "sex" appears at No.5 in the first box.  I have scrutinised the entire document with a huge magnifying glass and for the life of me cannot see where they have put any genetic details.

Therefore, it would appear removing the word "Sex" will have no significant impact because whether you are homosexual or heterosexual or anything in between, you have to use other sources to obtain genetic information.

Have a great weekend, go fishing, helps to clear the head of many absurdities.

 

Banjo, my friend

Image result for well done animated gif

Thanks!

born anatomically a male or a female...easy

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