PS. Do good men own murderers of women and children as “real men”? Or can they admit these are sick men and stand against the wrongs perpetuated by their own gender?

PPS. Why do you think such wrongs (murders, rapes and bashings perpetuated by men) occur? Could it be something to do with patriarchy? - belief in superior strength, power and the right to dominate? Good men, strong men, are standing up to fight against such wrongs. They are not sinking into victim hood.

Tisany 2019,

Instead of prejudging the incident and 'men' to fit your bias, what about you come back when the police have investigated and reported and better still, when there is a court judgment and more is known about the facts of the case and the offender?

However, it is worth noting that contrary to what you infer about men and Australian society, everyone is repulsed by such horrid crimes and that is apparent in the very stern custodial penalties available.  You might also note that while you are trying to score shabby points about 'patriarchy' and other male bothering stuff, the men and women of the police force and supporting professionals are giving their very best to bring this awful case to a conclusion.

Tisany 2019, what do you think the answer to your question is? I think that's more relevant to issues facing you.

LJ

You have misunderstood me. I like your link, it’s great but doesn’t counter the Gillette ad, it complements it. I wrote of my very high regard for men on the Gillette thread. 

We do have a problem in society of domestic and other violence inflicted on women by men. Women and girls should be able to feel safe on the street at any time of night, but we don’t. We fear fear for ourselves, our daughters and grand daughters walking alone at night. This has to change and women can’t change it alone. We need good men to stand with us to create change and there are many standing up to do so. However, there are also men’s groups who resent women and feminists and who promote resentment and even hatred. Patriarchy is as much an enemy of men as it is of women and the high male suicide rates will attest to that. Men and women will achieve more for themselves and each other by standing together.

Here is a link to a good article about men wanting to live more wholesome lives than that which is inflicted by patriarchy.

 

The good men: inside the all-male group taking on modern masculinity | World news | The Guardian18 Jun 2018 · “The battle of women to be free need not be a battle against men as oppressors. ... Today the pro-feminist men's movement champions causes ranging from reducing violence against women ...  Sorry, won’t come up blue so you will have to copy/paste it into google.

....... that what happen to you Ray?   Most unfortunate ..........................

 Ray, you shoulda known the omnivore is always lurking in its lair to take a swipe, this is the one you should've put up LOL

 

........   still happily Trolling???   BTW this "replying to yourself" all the time on here really needs some serious therapy! 

Who let you out??

How many warnings have you had so far?

Looks like you aren't  heeding them

FFS Troll - stop replying to yourself - you are looking more moronic (if possible) than you already are!!!  Therapy seriously required - remember?

How was ya' fake U.S. trip Trolllllllllll ?  Nice???  

You are some kind of real "nutter" to keep accusing members of getting "warnings"  ...maybe you had a few ya'self eh????     L O L

Micha is still trying to figure out if he’s a man or a woman 

 

Micha,

Neither Foxy nor any others to whom you refer as "crones" and "hags/haggis" have ever been "warned/cautioned" here, nor banned from any other forums.

Interesting ... as everyone here notes ...  you have been cyberbullying these women (cones/hags/haggis) since you arrived.  Not one on one, but in concert with your mates.

Now that these crones/hags/haggis have bested your hangers-on, they now play the victim-hood card.  Not a good look; not a good look at all.

Another lie. Just like the Einstein lie :(

A real man can not be influenced by anyone to act like an animal, not by government, family, a mate or a woman.  A real man takes responsibility for his actions and takes the conequences.

No excuses, man up and own your decisions.

Yes..that is advice you would do well to follow.

Agree, RnR. The same people who say dont put all Muslims in the same gategory or dont put all lesbians in the same gategory, seem to have no hesitation in using a dispicable act of homicide to blame it on all males?  

Sorry Adrianus, don't agree. I think it is individual events and the cumulation of similar events that causes angst.

Call me naive, but despite the statistics and the 'outrage' engendered, I would still like to think that many of us have wonderful close and very positive role models of both genders.

As for those who 'blame it on all males', a minority IMO. Think most are just horrified by certain horrific events as they occur and would like them to end.

Adrianus,

Please cite where anyone has blamed all males for this act of homicide. I did not do that, nor did anyone else. You are reading your own bias into what is written. 

Well, I for one am very offended by this remark..

"PS. Do good men own murderers of women and children as “real men”? Or can they admit these are sick men and stand against the wrongs perpetuated by their own gender?"

I realise that this sort of horible homicide is on the increase while most others are on the decline, but I also realise that most victims of homicide by "stranger offenders" are men. Sure, men are more likely to commit a "stranger" homicide by proportionately 6 to 1. But there is no justification to criticise all men. Just as there is no justification to criticise all women for running into a 7-11 with an axe.

I realise the remark was meant to offend, but we have a young woman, who only a week ago had her life all ahead of her and her grieving family who realise she will never get the chance to fulfil her dreams and aspirations. 

To use this as political leverage for the benefit of the feminist lobbyists is demeaning and inconsiderate.  

Quote:  “I realise the remark was meant to offend”. No it wasn’t.

It would be a bloody good thing if all men, or most men stood up to publicly renounce men who murder women and/or children, sexually exploit women and/or children. It would be good if men start shaming men for such acts.

i think men, good men, have tremendous power to have influence on bad men. 

Tisany 2019

However you and activists are not denouncing women and demanding that all women to stand up and 'publicly renounce' women who are alleged to murder, recent examples,

1. One of Australia's worst mass murders, eight children - Raina Thaiday

2. Queensland mother allegedly poisoned her two disabled children and prepared a suicide note for her son

Another thing, where are you and other activists when offences are regularly being committed in places like Tennant Creek?  Or don't the regular serious offences affecting indigenous fit the feminist left agenda?  Your comments please on why you are not calling for 'shaming' in any of these cases.

I don't know how the shading appeared in my post above.

To RNR,

I agree that gender should be left out of it.  Of course it is divisive and the activists intend it to be, as do some media outlets and superficial politicians who thrive on stereotyping and troublemaking.

While there is the red herring of gender, how can the underlying social problems eg., alcohol and drug abuse and lack of mental health services, especially emergency residential care be identified and addressed? 

All violence is shameful and criminal no matter who perpetrates it. The fact is, most random killings (of both males and females) and domestic violence is perpetrated by males. The worst of the worst, the most despicable, is when a man kills a child or children to spite his ex partner.

I'm surprised the left hasnt called for a quota.

Surprised the RIGHT hasn't tried to blame boat people.

That’s why today men have one rib less than women.

Interesting Micha, but is it true?

The most basic picture book of the human body shows even young children that women and men have the same number of ribs. Observations in the present world thus instantly disprove this anatomic legend. Since the rib fable is so readily refuted with simple anatomic facts, we wonder why many well-meaning Christians continue to spread it.

Ideas/facts anyone?

Quote Micha: “Why judge men because of a handful of nuts?”

No-one is doing that Micha. You need to read the posts again. You are muddled.

What is being said is that men are strong and need to use their strength in constructive ways (indeed most do) in order to make our society a safer, more equal and respectful place for both men and women. We have to put a stop to violence!

Listen robiconda, the deal was you do not address me and I do not address you. Comprende?????? Now buzz off.

RnR, can I have my rib back please :)

LOL Micha ... it isn't me ... all ribs present and accounted for.

 Following on from the biblical reference to Adam's rib ... and ... as promoted by Ray and Reagan, didn't Adam say "the woman made me do it"

As G-d judged, it was not a good argument then ... and it is not a good argument now.

 

HUH????? 

Micha old boy, absolutely agree with you!

.... still replying to ya'self????  Moronic tool !

Micha,

Women, both in the past and currently are coal miners, they have served in wars and are still doing so ... Surely even you have heard of Nancy Wake, who, in WWII, was parachuted into France and trained the Resistance fighters there.  She was most highly decorated.

as fishermen ... of course.

Men and Women have the same amount of ribs

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-ab&q=do+men+have+one+less+rib

RnR,

Thank you. A tragic situation ... "a lucky country" ... sad.

Since we are talking about homicide and homicide is the accepted reliable measure of violence, the above numbers should be put into the context of the overall numbers of homicides. 

It is then found that men are being killed at a far greater rate than women. Men number are around half of the population but they account for two-thirds of the homicide victims.

This report by researchers Samara McPhedran and Li Ericksen examines the numbers and arrives at some interesting conclusions and treatments.[click for link]

Unsurprisingly, there is no mention of 'patriarchy' or 'toxic masculinity'.  However, when looking at why someone might fall victim to homicide, these long term factors are relevant: social disadvantage; dysfunctional family/absent parents (fatherless families would count in that one would imagine); exposure to violence during childhood; parental substance abuse; and, living in disorganised urban areas where poverty and crime are commonplace. 

-The report goes on to say that these factors lead to other risks - such as disconnection from education (there are many more).

The predictors of why a male might become a homicide victim look similar to why a male might become a perpetrator.

Thanks LJ ... 'men are being killed at a far greater rate than women'.

As I said before if we are an angry, violent nation, how sad is that.

So many pointless (IMO) deaths and aftermaths for those left behind.

Hi RnR

Police and criminologists might not agree that Australia is an angry, violent nation.

What is apparent is there are those who want to spread fear, loathing and discord between the genders or to trash the social institutions they despise.  The findings of social psychology (that they unethically use to manipulate) and the Internet have given them tools to do that and often anonymously. 

Tisany 2019,

Anyone can do that, ie., just keep jumping in and out of the thread after trawling with Google to find quotes that appear to support their bias, while avoiding questions and any discussion of their opinions.

Despite your preemptive strike assurances otherwise, you do appear to have a stake in the gender war.  Why so?  

LJ

I did not trawl google for the above post citing Tom Meagher’s twitter post. I read about it in the Sydney Morning Herald this morning and even stated it was from SMH and date at the end of my post. Did you not see that? I put it up because I admire men like him, and also men like my hubby and many male friends who actively renounce violence and care about the safety of not only women but also men who are often victims of male violence. They don’t try to justify violence by saying it was caused by drugs and alcohol, difficult childhoods, difficult women etc etc, they just stand up and condemn it and fight for change. These are good men.

Further, I have consistently expressed my own opinions on this thread and they are that men and women can stand together to shame perpetrators of violent acts, that violence towards both genders, regardless of who commits the violence, is unacceptable. I have also expressed my belief that our system of patriarchy, which thankfully is beginning to break down, does not serve men or women alike. Men are encouraged to be tough and to suppress emotion. They can mistakenly equate toughness and control with masculinity. By concealing their vulnerability, even to themselves at times, many men are isolated when they need emotional support. It can be easier to strike out in anger than to open to one’s vulnerability and ask for help. It can be easier to attack the physically vulnerable ie women and children, those seen as “weak” by macho men than to admit one’s own weaknesses and fragility. 

I have no interest in gender wars but it appears to me that you do. Why so?

Tisany 2019,

None of that is any rebuttal of the findings of researchers Samara McPhedran and Li Ericksen.

Also, you should be careful not to be seen to be offering alleged offenders the comfort of a rationalisation and the readymade excuse that it was all society's fault, that 'patriarchy', its culture of 'toxic masculinity', made them do it.  -That the crime wasn't completely down to their own choice and volition and some allowance should be made for that.  That is what you seem to be saying.

Do radical feminists ever think beyond their idealism?

I am not a “radical” feminist, I am merely speaking my own mind about the way I see wrongs in our society and I think it’s perfectly logical to question why more violent acts (presently and over the ages) are committed by men than women. Equally logical to seek answers as to why and in my view culture has to play a part. If as you say, violent crime is due to one’s own choice and volition, the question still remains as to why more men choose to behave that way than women. Maybe it’s just testosterone? But that doesn’t make sense because so many testosterone fuelled men are not violent. What answers do you have LJ?

BTW I have never heard of Samara McPhedran and Li Ericksen so don’t know what you are talking about there and can’t be bothered chasing up their research.

Tisany 2019,

However, I have already given the link as part of my response to RnR.  Here again, just click.

Waiting for your comments on it.

Excellent Banjo, excellent. 

Excellent googling Banjo

Excellent 

Try googling “what makes a decent human being” and actually try and learn something this time 

You should take your own "advice" since you appear to be in great need of it.

At least Banjo did not pretend he got the information from any other source.

hahahaaa .. on one of ya' "verbal warpaths"?