24th Aug 2012

Is Centrelink checking your bank account?

Debbie McTaggart

YOURLifeChoices member Irene asked us to settle an argument on whether Centrelink has the power to check your bank account.

Q. Irene
Could you please settle an argument for me? A couple of my friends say that Centrelink can look at our bank accounts any time it likes. I say it can’t, as it would be a breach of the privacy act. Which of us is correct?

A. Centrelink does not have the power to spot check individual's bank accounts. However, it does utilise data-matching with other Government agencies to weed out cases of possible welfare fraud. For example, if you were to provide Centrelink with one set of figures and information, but the ATO with something different, this would be flagged by data-matching software. Centrelink has the power at this point to request details of your accounts from your bank.

If a discrepancy is flagged, the details of your accounts will be sent encrypted in an encrypted form to specialised staff, who will review them. Centrelink does not have the ability to remove funds from your account.

You can find out more about Centrelink’s privacy policy by visiting HumanServices.gov.au





COMMENTS

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Nan Norma
24th Aug 2012
2:16pm
I few years ago I opened a bank account for my eight year grandson. The next I knew Centralink was ringing to ask me why I hadn't declared the new bank account. I told them it was for my grandson but then was told as long as I was in a position to withdraw money from it, it was counted as mine. As soon as I was able I took my grandson to the bank and opened another account for him. This time, although I can move maney around etc I can't withdraw. All the paperwork comes to me and hold the keycard. When he is 18 I will hand it over to him.
Misterpeter
24th Aug 2012
2:54pm
Centrelink informed me about a account which was opened in my name using all my particulars after I had lost my wallet yet it had been returned as I thought complete less cash And at the same time about work income being paid into the particular newly opened account.
I contacted the small bank who was VERY helpfull the Police a little less helpfull and Centrelink only wanted someone [anyone] to pay them so have reduced our pension to get this money.
I am not sure if we were lucky or unlucky we never got any and the bank stopped and altered the account details at the request of the police I think the only people to gain were the crooks and Centrelink
At least you know someone is looking over you
Nan Norma
24th Aug 2012
3:05pm
Once on centrelink payments all privacy is lost, thats why there are many different payments- its to get everybody under centrelink's umbrella. But people don't realize that.
fpbsix
24th Aug 2012
5:05pm
wow , i didnt know any of that Nan , actually its a bit scary , & the talk about the new card there trying out at the present , I am very careful with my old aged pension, having my rates & all insurances coming out every month , but REALLY , it should be our own business , as we paid out taxes while we worked hard & reared our children ,
masuk
24th Aug 2012
4:47pm
I always know when my bank has paid interest to my small fixed term deposit. I get notification immediately from Centrelink telling me to declare all income!
Nan Norma
24th Aug 2012
4:55pm
someones over zealous. Sounds a bit like bullying to me.
Jude
25th Aug 2012
7:01am
I find it confusing as to what you actually have to let Centrelink know. With term deposits Centrelink has already worked out the deeming rate and adjusted a pension accordingly, so if you have to declare the income from the interest then surely that's double dipping.
Beemee
24th Aug 2012
4:59pm
I don't have any problems with Centrelink at all. Why? because I am faster on the draw than they are.
I phone them as soon as my account balance changes, up or down and I phone them on the day it does. They always say that I have a leeway of $1,000 before I have to declare it, but not on your life, I am on them like a tack and even when its a lousy $50.00
I am up to Update #25 now so you can guess my phone calls are very frequent.
Nan Norma
24th Aug 2012
5:17pm
Actually its time they changed that $1000 to at least $1500. I mean if you have a few bills due all at once you could in informing them one week and a week later your down more than $1000. I don't think there's really any need to phone them every time you're up a few dollars. I was told by centrelink to use my commonsense.
Jude
25th Aug 2012
7:09am
It's a crazy system because bank balances are constantly changing. However I thought it was if you spend $1000 or more in one transaction that you have to inform Centrelink. Possibly wrong, but that's what I do. I haven't had problems with them but never ring, I always use mail if I need to contact them, and keep a copy of all correspondence.
Nan Norma
25th Aug 2012
8:41am
no you don't need to inform when you spend $1000, only if you want your details updated.
Oldie@83
24th Aug 2012
5:43pm
I informed Centrelink when I upgraded my car thereby increasing my assets. Without any warning or questions. Within about two weeks I received a letter from them telling me my pension had been stopped as I now had $11,000,000 plus (eleven million) in my account earning over $58,000 Plus per year. I emailed them immediately on a Friday evening and Saturday Night I received a phone call from them regretting the error and my age pension had been restored. Quick work to restore (Saturday night) bless them. I followed it up at the Office on the following Monday.Two weeks later I received a new pension card in the mail identical to the one I have. My concern is; if it had happened to someone on an extended holiday, diminished faculties or such they would of lost all medical allowance etc without realising until they were in trouble.
chrissy
24th Aug 2012
5:47pm
I think that you are all very naive if you think that centrelink do not cross reference.
Nan Norma
24th Aug 2012
6:21pm
We don't think that.
Nan Norma
24th Aug 2012
6:23pm
You really do have to keep an eye on things. Centrelink does get it wrong sometimes. (The staff do make mistakes)
Abbie C:
25th Aug 2012
2:31am
I have received a pension since my early sixties and am raising an orphaned grandchild. Centrelink has made it possible for me to give him a reasonable standard of living and although I have to watch my expenditure, he has most of the things that other children have. Without Centrelink and the good fortune to be born into this marvellous country, I can't imagine what would have happened to my grandson (or to me). They can check my bank balance whenever they want so far as I'm concerned. I'm just very grateful to receive the assistance. If we have nothing to hide, it shouldn''t be a problem.
Nan Norma
25th Aug 2012
8:50am
I agree Centrelnik can be a blessing but for those people who have worked and paid tax all their lives, to have to report to a stranger everything they own, is a bit, like having big brother watching over you. In England, I believe, everyone gets a aged pension no matter how much money they have, after that they can get another pension through work, like superanuation. Her they cound your super and take it of your pension.
Peaceful
25th Aug 2012
11:30am
Nan Norma - yes, not just in ENGLAND but in the UK every citizen is entitled to a State [Age] Pension, as far as I know, irrespective of assets - unlike here, where Centrelink PTY LTD ['Big Brother', right enough, by the way] would seem to rather have people out on the streets!! Even after they make a mistake with payments - they want to claw it back at $50 - $60 a fortnight!! That has happened to me recently - and in the past. How one is supposed to survive anyway on the pittance that is paid on Newstart and the like, never mind cope with such a large deduction - absolutely beggars belief! Like Jude above - I prefer to use mail as the phonelines are usually so busy you would get a stiff/sore neck from holding on too long. However in my experience, they rarely, if ever respond to my letters - or, when you do get a letter, it is a 'bog-standard' computer-generated one, so your questions continue to go unanswered - and your frustration is consequently further increased. They are now part of 'Human Services' what a joke that is - as there is certainly no evidence of an ounce of humanity in the way they deal with us human beings! I am over them all - and their abilty to intrude on people's personal affairs in this way smacks very much of a 'Big Brother' approach.
Hillbillypete
25th Aug 2012
12:55pm
I can see sombody else has woken up to this BIG brother, best thing anybody can do is TELL THEM NOTHING! if you can.
Nan Norma
25th Aug 2012
1:08pm
A little while ago I remember centrelink telling all the working mothers that if they paid a person, say a grandmother or aunt for babysitting while they worked, they would get a tax duduction or something like that. I could just see all the mums rushing out to declare the payments they made, oblivious to the fact centrelink would then be on to the grandmothers for not declaring their baby sitting earnings.
Engy
5th Apr 2014
8:48am
Nan Norma,
From my understanding the babysitter has to give the parent a receipt.
I believe you can only claim % of fee charged. They probably check if the carer is on a pension of any type too.
Peaceful
25th Aug 2012
2:58pm
I ought to have said that the UK Age Pension System is based on what one has contributed via the National Insurance Scheme over their working life, and so the actual amount each person will receive will vary somewhat. Wives who have never worked or maybe only for a few years 0r part time etc will still get a Pension based on the husband's contributions. Some of that may have changed, though, over the last few years. And HillBilly Pete - I have not just woken up to this fact - I suggest that you check out the PTY LTD aspect of C/link - they are registered as such with ASIC!
And Nan Norma - your point about the Grandparents potentially being targetted by Centrelink to 'cough up', if they were being paid to do a bit of babysitting to help out - is not so far from the truth, I fear!
As I said above - C/link staff would apparently rather have us all out in the street!
Is it any wonder that some people are 'working on the side' and still claiming benefits?
Not, I hasten to add, that I am doing so - in case C/link satff are reading these posts - and I really hope that they are - a well as the politicians who also ought to know how disgruntled Autsralians are with their treament .
Nan Norma
25th Aug 2012
5:32pm
When a single aged pensioner is paying $500 a fortnight rent how are they supposed to survive on what's left. If they have the oppertunity to earn a few dollars they will.
Pardelope
30th Aug 2012
3:10pm
Centrelink staff would NOT like us all out on the street, as they too will get old or have relatives who need assistance. The staff are ordinary, lower paid workers (the "fat cats" do not have day-to-day contact with the public). Staff are bound by complex laws and rules imposed by various Commonwealth Federal Governments. They are required to attempt the (very difficult) task of weeding out the greedy, lazy, and dishonest who reduce the amount of "pie" available for the truly needy.

Some countries provide pensions only to people who have been in the workforce for a number of years. This often left out women who worked in the home as mothers or carers - and the disabled. A lot of people are left out.

Some countries provide no pensions at all. It is left to families to support their elderly parents or the disabled. This is largely why people in these countries have forced marriages and large numbers of kids (to ensure an ongoing support network). People who have no children or relatives willing or able to support them, end up living and dying on the streets.

Pensions and benefits in Australia were brought in to prevent citizens living and dying on the streets. They were not dependent upon having been in the paid workforce - or having been married to such a person. They are based on need - and are designed to provide basic support. The level of support is often lower than one would wish, but I think the concept has much to be said for it.

Yes, it would be nice if every Australian (poor, lazy, rich, greedy, unlucky, lucky, healthy, unhealthy) received a pension when they hit a certain age - but this is something which we citizens need to lobby our politicians to obtain - if our future economy and taxpayers will support it.
Peaceful
25th Aug 2012
7:23pm
Of course, Nan Norma, I would not 'blame' anyone for trying to earn a litle bit to have some kind of life - not merely an 'existence' - that's all that our Politicians and C/link seem to think we are worth!
I'm single, aged 64, and trying to set up a smal business on 'NEIS' funding [only a little bit more than Newstart], and my mortgage payment is far more than that - not to mention all the usual Utility bills, food, petrol, etc..
Nan Norma
25th Aug 2012
7:29pm
I know its terrible isn't it. I really do think centrelink should let people earn a bit more before they start cutting the pension. It wouldn't cost them anything. They have taken so many things away. Free prescriptions were a bit help to people.
Grasshopper
25th Aug 2012
7:36pm
I concur with Abbie C above. Centrelink saved my bacon when I was committed to looking after an aged parent. Other Qango's also helped with care and respite (for my parent)and respite (for me). I asked for no more and no less than what I was entitled within the parameters and guidelines. If it is a requirement to detail my assets to obtain a benefit, then I'm willing to do so.

We are one of the most over-socialised country in the world in all benefit areas, be it unemplyment, aged pension, single, married, family or non family.allowances etc.

Get real folks. Any payment you get from Centrelink is voluntary on your part. It is not a requirement, but an entitlement. If you don't like supplying details or allowing a government department access to your "private" information, then don't bother applying for a benefit. And don't come back with the old cliche "I worked all my life and paid taxes, so I deserve something back in retirement" (or other current circumstances).
Nan Norma
25th Aug 2012
10:38pm
Ozman As I have said before Centrelink wants everybody under their umbrella then they know what we've all got. Only the well -off can excape.
The goverment started a age pension tax back in the 40's. So why should people see it as a gift when they have acually paid for it.
Grasshopper
26th Aug 2012
12:04am
Nan

People these days don't pay for their Age Pension. The Age Pension was started well before the 40's when all working people were required to pay an extra 1.5% taxation. This was placed into a separate govt account, to be meted out when the worker reached 65, as Aged Pension. The govt eventually (probably during WWII) took all that money and placed it into consolidated revenue. They then took on the responsibility of paying the Aged Pension from govt coffers. As for people seeing it as a gift - we seem to be arguing the same point.

I disagree that Centrelink wants everybody under their umbrella. They are merely a govt dept. which works under the direction of the govt to issue and enforce their policies. If anything the govt is the Big Brother. Don't forget the other departments working to gather information for the govt; Taxation and Medicare to name two. It's an unfortunate fact of life that the govt has to have certain information from us to enable it to operate its services and issue correct payments.

Re: the rich escaping asset reporting (information giving). If a person is rich enough to be a self funded retiree, they still have to supply information for taxation purposes.
Nan Norma
26th Aug 2012
10:22am
You are quite right, the age pension began much earlier than the 1940's. But a tax for disability and age pensions did start in the 1940's. That money was eventualy put in to consolidated revenue . But did the tax cease, no. Eventually everybood forgot they were paying that tax. But I stand by what I say, that the goverment, through centrelink wants to get everybody under an umbrella. They keep introducing new welfare payments in return for all your information. I think we have come to the state where lower income people can't manage anymore with out some kind of welfare payment. Whose fault is that???
Grasshopper
26th Aug 2012
1:20pm
From the introduction of the Aged and Invalid Pensions in 1909 - see link http://www.skwirk.com.au/p-c_s-14_u-127_t-352_c-1220/invalid-and-old-age-pension-schemes/nsw/history/australia-to-1914/social-legislation-1901-1914
Australians have always had to qualify for their payment by a means and asset test. It is no different today to what it was then. What has changed are the various welfare payments we can now receive, which all require information to ensure you qualify for that payment. eg. Medical conditions for a Disability Pension, a carees illnesses for a Carers Allowance and Payment, proof of birth for baby bonuses. etc, etc. More government payments means more personal information is required.

Cross referencing between govt departments merely means a person doesn't have to duplicate certain information to various govt agencies. Having been employed in govt departments most of my working life, I can assure you, the unauthorised accessing of a clients personal particulars is the most serious of offences and is both a sackable and penal offence.

Re: whose fault it is that people can't manage without welfare. In my opinion, most times it is the fault of the person/family living outside their means. There are exceptions tho. In this technocratic world we are all too materialistic. Although hard at times, we all need to ensure that income exceeds expenditure, even if it means, going without, downsizing or sharing.
Nan Norma
26th Aug 2012
1:34pm
I have no arguement with anyhting you've said. I do think there are too many payments. The huge baby bonus is one of them. The attitiude soon started where the young mothers saw it as a God given right to have that money and how dare they not give it to us in a lump sum.
Grasshopper
27th Aug 2012
12:58pm
baby bonus commonly referred to as The Plasma Allowance
rosemaryjune
29th Aug 2012
12:45pm
I know some have used part of the lump sum to buy the cot, a good cot mattress (some have basically no support in them), a good quality capsule/baby car seat - some leave a bit to be desired), a pram suitable for a newborn upwards and a highchair.. Not all good adjustable back etc. support in them. Also for tall people the handles of the cheap strollers are too short, resulting in parents/carers getting bad backs and/or shoulders from stooping. Even very basic baby clothing and essential equipment costs add up very quickly. Most babies grow out of clothing quickly and none of the basic necessary clothing is cheap considering the time it is worn even if you initially start with a larger size than really fits. Most Mothers wash every day or more clothing, blankets etc. would be needed. Even re-usable nappies are really expensive to buy now. Sometimes you can buy second-hand clothing from op shops but none sell highchairs -- I couldn't find one at any of the local charities in Adelaide and it is not legal to sell 2nd hand baby car seats. You shouldn't buy one unless you know the person and know that none of their vehicles have been involved in an accident no matter how minor. Maybe they should only be given part of the baby bonus as a lump sum, and then the rest on a fortnightly or monthly basis.
Grasshopper
29th Aug 2012
8:43pm
@ rosemaryjune. what a pleasure to read your comment and how far some have made the baby bonus extend. It's unfortunate the few create unfair labels for the many.
Peaceful
26th Aug 2012
3:27pm
Making sweeeping statements that, "we are all too materialistic" - is neither true nor helpful! Like me, most of my friends are not materialistic, and are quite adept at being 'canny' with their money - cutting their coats according to their cloth etc. So once again, please don't lump everyone into the same category - we are all different in so many ways!
Nan Norma
26th Aug 2012
3:45pm
Peaceful, I know where OzMan is coming from, athough your right that not everyone is materialistic, he's right that many more people today are. I only have to look at my own children. The younger generation expect a lot more than mine did. A better standard of living even when it means going into more debt. But I expect every generation expects a better standard of living than the one before.
Grasshopper
26th Aug 2012
4:31pm
Iapolgise for the Royal "we". When typing above I was thinking of what we have in relation to our forebears. I too don't need the fashion labels, the brand new car, the latest gizmos. I agree with Nan about the younger generation and the expectation of a better standard of living.


.
JJ
27th Aug 2012
10:54am
You are both right. Many of our generation have worked all our lives, used our money wisely (like paying off our mortgages and never buying things we can't pay for with our own money). But there are others who have indulged themselves (and their children), never buckled down and bought their own homes, and otherwise frittered their incomes away. Likewise there are those who have had to struggle most of their lives with misfortune, illness and lack of opportunity; these people have reached retirement with very little in the way of security, and these are the ones for whom pension income is their lifeline.

The reason that Centrelink keeps such a close eye on us is because there are many who try to rip the system off, claiming entitlements to which they are not entitled by virtue of their assets or income. When you read about how enormous our social welfare bill is, you can understand why the government has to keep some semblance of control over it. When the pension system began, our life expectancy was such that there were not many years of receiving it for most people, for many there were none - often the wage-earner died before reaching retirement. Nowadays, we can look forward to something like 20 years in retirement if we enjoy reasonable health. That's a lot of years to be paid a pension for when you multiply it out. I believe we live in a very lucky country, and it's probably because we are so fortunate that our expectations are so high.
JJ
27th Aug 2012
11:08am
I just worked it out. In 20 years a single pensioner without any extra allowances would receive $361,000, a couple would receive $544,960 between them. That's at today's rates - of course adjustment for inflation etc will change those numbers over time, but the value would remain approximately the same. Multiply that by all the grey people in the community, the single parents, the unemployed, invalid and disabled. No wonder they have to make sure every dollar is justified!
Grasshopper
27th Aug 2012
1:32pm
well said and researched JJ. And we certainly do live in a lucky country.
Nan Norma
29th Aug 2012
12:53pm
No wonder everyone heads for Australia
Peaceful
27th Aug 2012
12:28pm
All well and good - BUT - how can the Pollies justify their exhorbitant recent pay rise - the second in a liitle over 2 months, I believe - not to mention all the PERKS they get, as well and the long-standing continuance of tax payers' funds that go to keep them very well off.......... and despite all this, some of them manage to 'Use and abuse the sytem' to their very great advantage. It all starts at the top - these are the people that set the scene for the biggest 'RORTS ' here!!!
Nan Norma
27th Aug 2012
3:09pm
Yes, some of the biggest rorters are amongst the politicians. I'd like to add a few lawyers and accountants.
Hillbillypete
27th Aug 2012
3:12pm
well said, I second that.
JJ
27th Aug 2012
4:35pm
That is true, and I agree that the pollies are in the main a greedy lot! There should be some means at our disposal to rein them in - well, I suppose there is at election time, although voting one out and another one in isn't going to make any difference to the main picture. But that wasn't the point in question here; it's the general population we are concerned with.
Nan Norma
27th Aug 2012
4:48pm
Yes, it comes down to pure greed. Maybe one day we might get a pollie with a conscience that will put a stop to it all. Sorry I think I fell a sleep for a moment.
Peaceful
27th Aug 2012
4:34pm
Yes - them,too, NN!!
Pardelope
28th Aug 2012
1:05am
Pensions and benefits in Australia were put in place to ensure that Australian citizens would not be forced into begging or starvation. They are based on NEED.

Unfortunately, many people try to obtain payments when they are not entitled - or they try to hide the level of need they are experiencing. It is therefore the duty of Centrelink staff to prevent these false claims i.e. protect the taxpayers and be able to provide services for ALL Australians.

It is essential to keep receipts - and records of expenditure reasons - in case you are queried about any large variations in your bank accounts. You need to be able to explain (for example) that you had to replace your car, hot water system, roof etc etc. It is definitely not necessary to advise them of minor changes every week. If you need to lodge a tax return, that is a good time to update (or confirm) your financial details with Centrelink.
Misterpeter
29th Aug 2012
1:13pm
If that is what they did there would be no or very little problem but they are not honest in the way they work and often take away from the wrong people in many cases over the years I have seen the poor starved out of their home and put onto the street by centrelink staff
I cannot see why it cannot work the same as the tax office where it has to be done by qualified staff [accountants]not just any fly by night office worker with a 2 day course
Nan Norma
29th Aug 2012
3:06pm
I was at the Centrelink office desk one day when the staff member had to ask another member of staff, what was the difference between a health care card and a pension card. And she was there to advise people.
Grasshopper
29th Aug 2012
8:21pm
@Misterpeter.

Your statement above is wrong in basis and fact and an insult to Centrelink staff. Let me assure you from personal knowledge (and not a wide sweeping erranous remark) that nobody is ever starved out of their home or put onto the street by Centrelink staff. They have no legal right or staff employed to do such a thing. There are checks and balances in place to ensure debts incurred by clients are both correct and legal to recoup. People are responsible for their actions. If a person knowingly or unknowingly supplies information and receives an incorrect payment, they are required to repay or may be repaid any difference of monies paid. Even then that person has a right to a number of avenues of appeal. The back of any Centrelink payment letter details a person's rights and responsibilities

Re: Cenrelink staff being "fly-by-night" office workers. That too is incorrect. Most Centrelink workers are long term employees. Again that knowledge is from personal experience.

Re: Your statement about work at the Tax Office having to be done by qualified accountants - wrong again. Some work may be done by qualified accountants, but the majority of tax employess are similar "fly-by-night" (to use your misnomer) workers whom Centrelink employ.. Please get your facts right.

@ Nan. It's a fact of life that no matter how much training an employee receives, when they enter the bactual workplace or a new dept, they are inexperienced in that field. I applaud the worker for asking the difference between the two cards. I could almost guarantee it would be a once-ever question if she received the right answer. By asking that question, she may well have saved future grief to her customer by not issuing an incorrect card.
Misterpeter
30th Aug 2012
10:04am
OzMan I have been on the pension now for close on 30 years, I was retired at 65 and everything I say above and MORE is totaly correct, And the appeal is a big CON, I know I had it happen, read my First letter, I new nothing about it even the police could not find the culprits yet I had to pay and was turned out of our flat [NO Money] So if you are a staff or ex and are insulted so be it Maybe when you get to see enough offices you will realise, even in the BOWEN office where the office girl put the wrong papers through the shreader and was told to just forget it I suppose you think that was a learning curve
MY FACTS ARE FROM LIFE EXPERIENCE 92 yrs And still learning
Grasshopper
30th Aug 2012
11:36am
@ misterpeter. I re-read your first post here. You were obviously a victim of identity theft. I read Centrelink contacted you of an (probably a duplicate) account in your name and it may have been the first you knew of the identity theft. From the numerous stroies in the press, it is very difficult to clear your name of any detriment resulting from identity theft eg. bad credit rating, debts incurred, monies paid etc. If the police couldn't find the culprits, Centrelink certainly wouldn't be have enough information to find a culprit either and clear your name. I don't know how far you went with the appeals process or what legal advice you obtained to clear your name of an improper benefit, but I reiterate that the Appeals process goes far beyond Centrelink offices.

My difficulty with your second post is that you tarred EVERY Centrelink worker with the same brush in one broad statement. I know numerous Centrelink staff who are as honest as the day is long, as well as being polite and empathetic to their customer's plight. There might be some bad apples in the barrel, but NOT every one.

The Centrelink Appeal process is NOT a big con. I know of Centrelink clients who have had their Appeal upheld. As I said previously, the appeals process goes beyond Centrelink and every person has the right to appeal to higher authority beyond Centrelink.

As for people shredding wrong documents. The only original documents Centrelink retains are the Centrelink application forms. Any personal documents are copies. Therefore, irrespective of shredding or not, Centrelink forms can be re-written and submitted and personal documents re-copied. Nextly, the information supplied in the shredded documents would have been entered into their computer system and readily retrieved with a few keystrokes.
Hillbillypete
30th Aug 2012
12:28pm
@Misterpeter. What you say is so right, they have put us through so much and for so long you would not believe it if I told you, they just hope you will just go away.
The times I have appealed I find you have to take it to the end, appeal the 3 times and in all cases for me I WON, so don’t just go away.
Peaceful
29th Aug 2012
5:23pm
Who, I wonder, could actually AFFORD to replace a roof, hot water system and/or a car on Newstart payments - which are less than the Aged Pension, I believe?
Nan Norma
29th Aug 2012
7:03pm
Newstart really isn't enough, but when you have a whole family all on newstart, which happens, plus collecting child payments too, then they can afford a lot of things.
Hillbillypete
29th Aug 2012
8:16pm
Good point there peacefull, we need a second hand car but no body will talk to us as we are on the pension, even though we own a house and a caravan and a second car.
Grasshopper
30th Aug 2012
11:43am
@Hillbillypete. Have you tried those loan companies that advertise on TV saying nobody's loan app will be rejected? I believe however, they charge high interest rates and their vehicles are overpriced.
Hillbillypete
30th Aug 2012
12:19pm
@Ozman. no have not tryed them as I don't want to get into somthing I can not pay back, there are a lot of scams going on out there regarding buying cars and there prices but am on to them, am getting the daughter to sell the second car at home and that should bring down the loan amount I hope.
The bottom line is if you are on a pension no body wants to know you regarding a lone at a fare interest rate and I think thats bad!
Grasshopper
30th Aug 2012
12:36pm
So true pete. Sounds like you've got it sussed. Do you go online to the Fed and State govt car auction sites? The other good sites are the large private car auction sites, Gumtree and eBay. Good luck.
Peaceful
30th Aug 2012
1:50pm
Re: Centrelink Appeals Process: Sometimes,the very thought of completing yet more documentation is just too much when one is in an already very fragile emotional state - with all the anxiety about how one is going to manage to keep a roof over one's head and put just basic food on the table!
Also - I know someone who was with the RAF [UK] and who had a service pension from those days - but Centrelink insisted that any Newstart or Pension payments here would be reduced by that amount - he told me Centrelink staff told him it was because he had not actually served beside any Aussie troops! What a lot of 'rot' - all of them were fighting the same battles, more or less!! He tried going through the Appeals Process, but that was the outcome - so he recently returned to live with his family in the UK, having lived here for a number of years, as he could not afford to live on the amount with which he'd be left !

Of the many peope to whom I have ever mentioned Centrelink - not one of them has had a good word to say about them - and their way of working!! So please don't tell me every last one of them has been trying to pull a 'fast one' over them. I have certainly found them to be extremely inefficient and lacking in basic common courtesy.
Misterpeter
30th Aug 2012
2:02pm
Well said and totaly correct
And the so called Appeals process is way out of the average older persons grasp and understanding
Grasshopper
30th Aug 2012
3:36pm
@ Peaceful. Even Australian ex Servicemen have to declare their pension as income to Centrelink and it is classed as an asset against their payment - any Centrelink payment. The only DVA payment not classed as income is the TPI pension. The other thing that most (but not all) Centrelink recipients forget to mention - your declared earnings + reduced Centrelink payment, will NEVER be less than the full Centrelink payment for that benefit. Check the Centrelink payment schedule to confirm my statement. It's available online.

As for "of the many people to whom I have ever mentioned Centrelink - not one of them has a good word to say about them ..." Your argument is flawed by this very forum topic. Beeme - 4th post from top on this forum - and myself have no problems with Centrelink. There are many more out there, many who are grateful to be receiving a benefit in time of financial trouble. But like most government depts, there are decisions that people may not agree with, but that doesn't make every dealing with them a bad one - unless of course the person is trying to obtain a benefit they may not be entitled to. I have found their checks and balances to be excellent, to the point where they have placed me on the correct benefit and repaid monies owing - without me making representation to do so.

I'm sure if you think back to all your dealings with Centrelink, you have found a cross section of efficiencies and courtesies. I'm reminded of two sayings. "bad news travels 25 times faster than good news" and "what you give out you get back tenfold". We tend to remember bad experiences over good experiences. My suggestion would be to take a reference number for your call to Centrelink, or a complaints form at the Centrelink office if you think you are being served rudely or inefficiently and make a complaint. All complaints are taken seriously and investigated. Sometimes it works to your advantage - the squeaking door getting the oil.

The Appeals process can be a tiresome and stressing process, but like all processes, there is a certain amount of paperwork involved - often complicated. Centrelink or the dept you are making the appeal to, will answer any questions and may even help you fill out the forms.

But you and I have opposing opinions. I'll never convince you otherwise and you'll never convince me otherwise. I assure you I'll back up all my statements with references or from actual circumstances.
arb1950
30th Aug 2012
5:21pm
Ah Ha... clearly Ozman you worked for them and perhaps that's why you are so strong in yr defense. I worked for them too but I'm afraid I believe many Centrelink staff are punitive and believe the worst of people and act on this belief.
For example, I found that many times if Centrelink made a mistake and overpaid people...or failed to take out a series of housing payments and the customer fell behind with their rent because of this..Centrelink staff tended to 'blame' the customer because "the customer should have realised that too much money went into their bank account". They were often unreasonable about repayment amounts, making life very difficult for the customer.
I was also a staff member when the Child Support Agency was established and staff from Canberra were sent down to explain to Centrelink workers how to correctly fill in the single parent claim forms. At that time we were told...be careful because if you or the customer makes a mistake the customer's payment will be automatically stopped!!! No consideration of the impact of this on the children. I know this attitude has now changed, but I could tell hundreds of stories that do not reflect well on Centrelink staff. One of the main reasons I left is because I could not stand the punitive nature of the process many were put through. And just listen to the politicians when they are discussing welfare payments. You would swear all welfare recipients are out to rip off the government, when in fact a very, very few do so.
Nan Norma
30th Aug 2012
6:28pm
Thanks for that arb its nice to get another point of view. I remember some year ago, I filled in austudy forms for my two children and delivered them personally. When no austudy payments arrived I rang them up only to be told I hadn't put in the forms. It wasn't the first time that sort of thing happened.
Hillbillypete
30th Aug 2012
8:28pm
I told you didn't I, they are arse holes, sorry
Grasshopper
30th Aug 2012
10:45pm
@arb1950. My defense of Centrelink is based on the soundness of the system, not from any work experience. Any information in my previous statements is readily available from the backs of forms, pamphlets, booklets, centrelink.gov.au and personal experience. When I deal with Centrelink I make sure I submit forms personally and get signed and dated copies of them for my records and I never leave originals with them. I have had lost forms but those copies have saved a lot of heartache and stress.

Wholesale mayhem would ensue if we didn't have rules and guidelines. I reiterate my statement from one of my first posts. Centrelink benifits are an entitlement, not a right. If you don't like the system or the attitude of the staff, don't bother applying and receiving a benefit. I'm sure arb1950 would agree that there were as many arse holes(to use hillbilly's words) in front of the counter as behind. From what I've heard waiting in line for service, a lot of customers need a lesson in manners.
Pardelope
30th Aug 2012
8:07pm
Wow! arb1950 - I wonder what office(s) or state you worked in? When did you work there? You sound like you did not have a good experience.

I know I got out at the right time, as the signs of imminent decay were starting to show up. It was when they told staff that they could be held personally responsible for financial errors - even if they were following the rules, regulations, and precedents set by the AAT.

However, my experience working there - and as a client in later years - has been generally good. I have never felt that a staff member was deliberately trying to give me wrong information or blame me for some failing. Maybe that is because I am very organised and have done my "homework" before I contact them?

Unfortunately, Nan Norma's experience of forms going missing is inevitable in such a large organisation - and that is why I ALWAYS make copies of all forms, documents, and letters AND get them to stamp my copy with the "Date Received" stamp. I tell all my friends to do this - and it has avoided some annoying situations. If they tell you they haven't received the forms, you can politely produce the copies - problem solved.
Nan Norma
30th Aug 2012
9:32pm
You might have copies but that doesn't prove you sent the forms in. Sorry but I don't think there is any excuse for losing two lots of forms. My children were left with austudy for four weeks. But I will admit that since I've been on age pension, I've found the staff to be very pleasant and patient.
Grasshopper
30th Aug 2012
10:50pm
well said Pardelope. I agree with you. You seem to live by the Scouts motto - be prepared
Nan Norma
31st Aug 2012
11:04am
meant to say, WITHOUT any austudy for four weeks
Peaceful
31st Aug 2012
1:02am
Thanks, Mister Peter - you're right - and the whole notion of going through any such process would put the most able person off - if they had already gone through the mill of, for example: unemployment, serious accident/illness, disability, bereavement, depression etc etc. The very thought of it would put many people off.
OZman - my argument may seem 'flawed' to you - but I am not in the habit of telling lies - so when I stated that everyone to whom I mentioned the word Centrelink has not had a good word to say about the organisation or its staff - that is exactly what has happened! So, just because all your experiences with Centrelink Pty Ltd have apparently been perfect - one should not ASSUME that everyone else is going to replicate that !

And as for your remark that - if people did not like the system or the attitudes of the staff there, don't bother applying for benefits - have you forgotten who pays for them, then? We have a right to be treated with respect and dignity - and not in a dismissive or 'punitive' fashion that was mentioned by Arb 1950.

Just as Arb 1950 states, I, too, know of times when due to their errors they have overpaid people I know - then tried to claw it back at an unreasonable amount per fortnight - and would not countenance a lesser amount being offered. Nor would they have the courtesy, or good business sense to respond to letters from the 'customers' . As for phone calls, I have found that a waste of time as one is kept hanging on so long one could fall asleep! If I have been 'lucky enough' to get through, they have on more than one occasion, misconstrued [deliberately, I felt] what I have said and twisted things around that reflected me in a poor light.
Grasshopper
1st Sep 2012
1:30am
@ Peaceful, I did not infer you were lying - merely your argument is flawed. Because your statistics show 100% of people you spoke to don't have a good word to say about Centrelink doesn't mean 100% of Centrelink customers have the same opinion. That is borne out by the positive comments above (now more than the two previously stated).

Your comment about me "forgetting who pays them" is also flawed. Any person receiving a Centrelink benefit pays little or no tax (unless perhaps, they are a self funded retiree striving for that $1+ pension to receive the benefits of a Pension Card or HCC - a legal rort to my thinking). My post of 25 August at 7.36pm made comment about an old cliche. Your comment above about "who pays for them" is also an old cliche often heard. The only way you could pay a Centrelink worker is via your taxes paid. Using that cliche, you also paid for the roads, so no need to pay tolls. You also paid for the railways so no paying fares. You also pay the wages of the police, so no fines. You pay rates (assumedly), so you can park anywhere in you like in your municipality without paying parking fees. Do you get my point? I agree Centrelink customers have a right to be treated with respect and dignity. Because respect and dignity is a two way street, no matter how frustrated I get at waiting in line or on the end of the phone, I'm always polite to the Centrelink staff. By being polite and giving a smile I receive the same in return - every time so far. In my post of 30 August at 3.36pm I detailed the process to take if you have a complaint. The only way service can be improved is by pointing out where it fails and the best way to do that is by the complaint or feedback forms. I did not say all my experiences with Centrelink have been perfect (you did that for me), but NONE of them have been disastrous enough to make a complaint. I have however had exceptional service on one occasion and completed a feedback form complimenting the staff member concerned. And the exceptional service was after the staff member had been berated by an irate customer before me.

I'm also wondering why you refer to Centrelink as a PTY LTD company. I've done a business search that shows a number of companies with the name Centrelink but none have Centrelink.gov.au ABN. Additionally the Centrelinks listed in the ASIC Company search site are deregistered companies. Any chance you could supply a link or reference for me to confirm they are a PTY LTD company?
Pardelope
31st Aug 2012
6:05pm
Please Nan Norma - you need to protect yourself from such mishaps. You MUST ensure that you keep copies of everything. You MUST get them to put a stamp on their copy AND yours - which says "Date Received".

Lodging personally is safer than posting important forms or documents. If you choose to rely on the post, you have no proof that Centrelink lost the documents - it could be the mail service. In my area, some time ago, a postal worker was gaoled for destroying mail he collected (over some months) from the official Australia Post boxes.

If you later produce your copy with the "Date Received" stamp on it, it proves (a) they received the original, (b) the date it was received, and (c) what information you provided. It can then be used to re-start (and back-date) the claim.
Grasshopper
31st Aug 2012
11:48pm
For Pardelope. We need a Like button like Facebook

For Nan. More on non delivery by Aust Post. Some time back they released statistics on delivered mail. 95% of mail was delivered to its destination. That means that 5 letters out of every 100 was lost. Add to that mail misdirected to the wrong area within Centrelink (they don't have a dedicated mail person - staff are allocated daily to sort the mail - often inexperienced staff eg. duh. which dept handles AUSTUDY?)
Nan Norma
1st Sep 2012
10:50am
Wrong deliver can be a problem. I often get other peoples mail which, considering I am the original owner of my house, it's a puzzle. One day I received important mail from centrelink, and also a another centrelink letter addressed to another subarb. Understanding how this could negatively affect the owner I delivered the letter myself. Which of course makes me wonder if my mail has ever gone walkabout.
Grasshopper
1st Sep 2012
11:24am
a majority of Centrelink letters are printed and enveloped automatically by a private contractor. Then they are bulk mailed. From Centrelink officer's computer to delivery to the customer, a letter passed through electronic process, machine sorting and manual sorting and delivery. Anywhere along the line a letter can either fail to reach the printer, be lost due to machine malfunction or human error. Unfortunately for the customer, I'm led to believe that if a letter is processed on the officer's computer, it is deemed to have been delivered.
Nan Norma
1st Sep 2012
11:40am
Well how private are our details if a private contrator handles them?
Misterpeter
1st Sep 2012
11:43am
I often wonder where the word DEEMED was from is it a American word as the only DEEM I know is from the English Oxford Dictionary and has a meaning [To Judge or consider] and is a verb transitive
Centrelink seam to have phrases all of their own and not understood by others
Nan Norma
1st Sep 2012
11:50am
So you money is concidered to be earning/deemed so much % . That makes sense to me.
Grasshopper
1st Sep 2012
12:15pm
I'm led to believe the mail printed and enveloped by the private contractor is do by machines at lightning speed. Too fast for staff to read private details. I'm sure, private contractors would have to sign confidentiality agreements.

Within Centrelink any customers private details can only be accessed on a need-to-know basis. But I agree that our private information is only as safe as the person safeguarding that information, physically or electronically. Pardelope may be able to clarify this, but I believe our written applications are now scanned into the Centrelink computer and the originals destroyed.
Peaceful
1st Sep 2012
10:10am
OZman - it was implied - not inferred. ..and I am well aware that it is not everyone's experience - merely those to whom I have spoken - and yet another gentleman yesterday afternoon said: "Don't get me started on them!" {this was from someone working in the HR/ Recruitment sector].
As for my "flawed comments" - as a previously employed Tax Payer, as are/were, I'm guessing at least some of the people commenting on here, I/we have contributed to the many so-called 'public services' such as Centrelink. My point about who pays for them - was about the provision of good 'Customer Service' in the first instance - instead of people having to go through often lengthy and bureaucratic complaints or appeals procedures - when they are already feeling extremely stressed and fragile! A little bit of empathy from C/link staff would go a long way - as, in my experience, not everyone is trying to rip Centrelink off ! I realise that you did not say that your experiences were all 'perfect' - that was my 'take' on what seemed to be the case - I apologise if I was mistaken on that aspect. I'm signing off on this dialogue now - as I have too many more important and uplifting things to do!
Grasshopper
1st Sep 2012
11:42am
It's a sad fact of life that to obtain many things, "we" have to apply, justify and prove our entitlement. I have agreed before that the appeals process is often complicated and stressing, but there is help to complete the process if sought, thus relieving some of the stress and frustrations.

We certainly live in a lucky country where social services are provided as part of life's benefits. Likewise we have free speech where forums like this allow us to vent our frustrations. I was recently in China and Russia where tourist guide's spiels were being listened to by civil workers posing as cleaners or other tourists and the guides had to toe the Party line. I thank God every day to live in this country, located in perhaps the best location on Earth, free from political, religious and racial bigotry (that's my flag waving done for today)
Pardelope
2nd Sep 2012
6:55pm
Oz Man - I am not sure if every claim form is destroyed in every office. There was a strong move to attempt to reduce the amount of paper record as the storage was becoming an enormous problem. The promise (at the beginning of computerization in Centrlink) never eventuated - in fact it created more paper. If computer scanning is being relied on entirely, God help us if their computers crash!
Grasshopper
2nd Sep 2012
7:16pm
my thoughts as well on their computer failing. My business was contracted to scan an international mining company's exploration library but the hard copies were kept and stored, ending up in a storage facility in South America. At least they were accessible in an emergency.
Nan Norma
3rd Sep 2012
12:27pm
I have a feeling the Centrelink letters and files may all be put on microchips. A short time ago I went on the UK Ancestry website trying to get some information about my grandfather's World War 1 army records. I was very surprised when a letter he had written giving permission for 'centrelink" to give his details to the army, downloaded.
foxylady
13th Sep 2012
9:49pm
I am sick and tired of trying to contact Centrelink to report the increase of money I have. I have sent 3 emails on their own website. I refuse to sit with phone attached to my ear waiting for someone to talk to me and for sure I will not stand in line at their office.
Aussiejbl
5th Jan 2013
6:27pm
What pisses me off is when people on a parenting payment for example complain they can't afford this and that, but then in the next breath say how they just recently bought a pair of $470 Versace sunglasses. Sorry, but if you can afford to buy such an expensive pair of sunglasses you don't to be on a parenting payment. That is just so unfair!!!! Tax payers are paying for these people to sit on their asses, have babies do they don't have to work and live as if they are rich. I know people who have full time jobs that couldn't afford to go out and spend money like that.
Pardelope
6th Jan 2013
4:42am
Ah! But it is all a matter of personal priorities. Some people can't tell the difference between a "need" and a "want". To them a "want" is a "must have" - preferably at someone else's expense. Versace sunglasses would be a fairly rare extravagance - compared to booze, drugs, junk food, smokes, super size TV's, electronic toys, and noisy souped-up cars. For many people who can't manage on benefits or pensions, they come ahead of rent, healthy food for the kids, utility bills, and budgeting for the future.

Many people manage quite well on Centrelink payments - but they do not have chronic illnesses, do not have to pay high rents - and do not suffer from "lazy-bone-itis", greedy-itis", or "stupid-itis".
Pardelope
6th Jan 2013
4:55am
Foxylady - you really should not rely on their phone service or website to advise of important changes - unless you get a receipt number and keep it in your file. Your information can easily get lost - and you may be accused of not advising them.

The best (but least convenient) way is to put it in writing and take it to one of their offices. Find out if they have a special office for seniors close to where you live (this saves long queues). Insist that they put their date stamp on your copy - and then keep it in your file.
Engy
5th Apr 2014
9:25am
Yes, make sure you get a receipt number, even if you have to ask for it more than once in the same call. I notified Centrelink that my Mother had moved to a retirement village but I was still maintaning the house, taking care of washing etc. I also wrote to them but received no akcnowledgement. I had 3rd party arrangement as Mum was not capable of filling in the paperwork.
When dhe entered a nursing home, I received a letter stating that they we had not previously nofitied them of her change of address and they cut her pension back to leff than the medicine allowance was. I made an appt. at my Local Centrelink Office . The gentleman was very helpful, worked it out another way and she got about $60.00 month more. That at least half paid her monthly chemist bill.
SJ72
17th Jan 2013
6:37pm
I am on Parenting Payment with 3 young kids and I too have had this argument with my friend. I have nothing to hide but I think that Centrelink or anyone else for that matter has no right to check anyone's bank account without permission if they suspect fraud ok go for it but not just to randomly keep check on people. "Aussiejbl" I can understand your frustration at some on benefits I may be in this position myself right now but I hate the sterotyping some give to those like us. I did not realise that having kids was a luxury reserved for those in jobs only. I have worked and right now i'm not and I feel no shame in that. I am just about to start home study to upgrade my qualifications so I feel I am using my time home raising my kids well. I also feel that being at home with my kids is more important that having a job Mothers are continually made to feel they are lazy for being stay at home mums and selfish for being working mums you cannot win so I say f**k what you all think I will do what I believe is best for my kids I feel entitled to my benefits cos I have paid taxes for many years. Also I will next month be treating myself to a iPad this is not cos I sponge so much money of the government but because I have saved for months and months in fact nearly a year and again I see nothing wrong with this as the money I get from Centrelink is MY money, I have earned it by paying taxes when I worked and I earn it by raising my family. I resent the implication that people on benefits just because they are so cannot buy themselves expensive treats or if they do they should not be entitled to any benefits!! I budget my money carefully my kids never go without I don't smoke I very very rarely drink I don't gamble I think if I want to treat myself and save hard for that treat then who are you to say I can't just because my money comes from benefits it does not mean I am some greedy person scamming the government either! Not everyone is like that and for people to judge before knowing the facts show them to be the ones suffering from stupid-itis!
Hillbillypete
17th Jan 2013
11:01pm
Well said my dear!
Aussiejbl
18th Jan 2013
11:34am
You are a minority! You are right it was wrong for me to judge as a whole. But you are infact a minority!
Greyone20
2nd Apr 2014
6:06pm
Come on folks,sit back ,take a deep breath & say thanks for what we are able to get in this country.The pension is not an automatic entitlement,it is a benefit to live on for those of us who don't have the funds to live on.Yes,we may all have paid taxes during our working lives whilst bringing up children,but those taxes paid for our roads,hospitals,schools etc at that time,not for our age pensions.The current generation are the ones paying for our pensions,they won't be enable to get a pension when they reach our age,so let's be grateful we can get one now.
Engy
5th Apr 2014
10:02am
Not only old age pensioners etc. are affected by Centrelink checks and constant assessment letters, declarations. A friend ours, married with 2 young children - one a newborn was retrenched and after searching for jobs unsuccessfully applied for unemployment benefits.
In fairness they did ask him why he didn't apply immediately as he hadn't been there long enough to for a good package. Companies and individuals stopped buying new vehicles when fringe benefits tax came in and dealers had staff doing very little work. He is a motor mechanic and very good with his hands, but has never been a good writer and computers weren't used to the extent that they are now. What disappointed him was that he managed to get 2 days casual work on a couple of occasions over a 7 week period which he declared immediately and didn't wait for forms etc. When they deducted his benefit by the % they use of the amount of his wages and he paid tax on it, he received less income than if he had not worked at all. He also had to travel a considerable distance to do it, using his car as he had to started work before daylight and before public transport reached his home area. He had injured his knee a few years before and therefore could not walk what was 1/2hr drive by car. Like he said, then ended up worse off but al least he had a chance of maybe later getting a full-time job there if one became available. He went there for 2 reasons. He wanted to work and not sit home after scouring Commonwealth Employment Service notice boards and newspaper job ads. He found jobs on the notice boards, asked for more details at the service counter and was told to go straight to the companies and apply. Some of the jobs hadn't been taken off the board when they should have been. (one 3 weeks before and what's more that have records of having spoken to a particular person) Now you have to apply via approved recruitment providers which is probably a better idea.
We have to remember that the Commonwealth Government makes the legislation that they have to abide by when making decisions.
gypsyfeet
5th Apr 2014
11:27pm
Since the early 1990's centrelink has stopped me a few cents each fortnight for interest earned on an account with the commonwealth bank. I have never had an account with the commonwealth, upon ringing the bank they have no record of me ever having an account, but centrelink still insists I do have one, with obviously only a small amount in it, but cannot or will not give me any details about the claimed account. After all these years those small amounts deducted have added up!
Hillbillypete
6th Apr 2014
8:57am
take them to court, contact currant affair.
Pardelope
8th Apr 2014
4:10pm
You have the right to know the details of any income or assets they have listed under your name. If they can't or won't give you a printout of the details, go to their website and check what income and assets they have listed there. Everything should be shown. Print out a copy. Take it along to your local Commonwealth Bank office and discuss the matter. It is possible that it is a long forgotten account - or that someone with the same name has an account with them. Get a statement in writing that you have no accounts with any of their branches - and/or the date that any old account was closed. Take this to Centrelink and ask them to adjust their records. Get them to take a copy for their records. Make sure they stamp your copy with "Date Received". If they still keep showing the account on your records, you can appeal.
harold
23rd May 2014
4:41pm
This is not on the exact same topic, but I would love to know if a local Council can phone Centrelink and be given details of where you are residing? Some time ago I had permission from Centrelink to leave my home and go to my mother's home to be her carer. Council said they phoned Centrelink and was told I was not living at my home so they cut out my pensioner concession on the rates.
Pardelope
24th May 2014
2:50am
When I worked in DSS (now Centrelink), to reveal personal details to anyone without authorization would have had dire consequences. However, many organizations e.g. Taxation, Universities, Centrelink do now share information with the intention of detecting fraud. I would not be surprised if this sharing now also includes State Government and Local Government.

I am surprised though, that this would be done over the phone, as anyone could claim they were from ..... Department - which could have very serious repercussions in, say, a domestic violence situation.
rob101
5th Jun 2014
3:23pm
if their is a discrepancy flagged Centrelink can and do conduct property searches to see if anything changes.They also monitor TV shows where contestants can win money,although they will deny this.And watch out Travelling overseas too often.

Robert 101
Dusty
22nd Aug 2014
12:21pm
I believe that in 2008 Centrelink was given extra powers to nose into people's bank accounts.


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