Age Pension no guarantee

Scott Morrison has outlined the government’s vision for a new retirement income system.

Treasurer Scott Morrison on Friday outlined the government’s vision for a new retirement income system in a speech to the Association of Superannuation Funds of Australia (ASFA).

Mr Morrison made it clear that the Turnbull Government’s position is that no Australian should expect to receive an Age Pension when they retire, while also suggesting the currently generous superannuation tax breaks enjoyed by the very wealthy will be reined in.

The Treasurer conceded that twenty years after the introduction of compulsory superannuation that the current system is not yet efficient enough to supplement or replace the Age Pension.

Scott Morrison said that the Age Pension should not be regarded as an entitlement, instead, it should be regarded as a welfare payment for those who do not have the ability to save enough to fund their own retirement.

The Superannuation Act will be altered next year to enable most Australians to enjoy the "worthy prize" of an "independent retirement". These changes will reflect the recommendations adapted from the Financial Systems Inquiry. 

Read the full speech at treasury.gov.au

Read more from www.theage.com.au

Opinion: It’s an entitlement, not welfare Mr Morrison

Scott Morrison has once again gone out of his way to call the Age Pension a welfare payment, refusing to acknowledge that the Age Pension is an entitlement earned from a life of hard work and paying taxes.

As most of you reading this know first-hand, a life on the Age Pension isn’t glamorous. The labelling of the payment as a welfare handout is not only insulting to those living on it, but shows a real disconnect between Mr Morrison and the original reason behind the introduction of the Age Pension in 1908 as a ‘reward for service’.  

Mr Morrison is guilty of being ahead of his time in trying to push a transition away from Australian workers retiring directly into an Age Pension. He even conceded in his speech that the current superannuation system isn’t efficient enough to replace or supplement the Age Pension.

So why keep toeing the welfare payment line? Why not do something about the inefficiencies of the current superannuation system. For example, why not remove the hold on the current Government has placed on the increase to the rate of employer superannuation guarantee contribution? Why not stop plans to abolish the Low Income Superannuation Contribution? And why not do something about the rort on superannuation taxation currently enjoyed by many of the country’s high earners?

It’s time to start calling the Age Pension for what it actually is Mr Morrison, an entitlement.

What do you think? Is Scott Morrison side-tracking important changes to the retirement income system by getting caught up in playing politics on the Age Pension? Do you agree that the Age Pension should still be considered an entitlement or do you feel it has now evolved into a welfare payment/safety net? 





    COMMENTS

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    Capn Dan
    1st Dec 2015
    10:09am
    When he gets kicked out of parliament how will he describe his huge pension. Welfare or entitlement ?
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2015
    10:15am
    You know the answer just like the rest of us.
    Peterrj
    1st Dec 2015
    10:22am
    Cape Dan, ummm, dare I guess .... 'Earnt'???

    Go for the high ground ... Incoming tsunami for this topic!!!!
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:11am
    Dan: rules for some, (different) rules for others.
    It should not be acceptable that politicians can begin their pension phase after they leave politics. This is corruption by any other word.
    Kat
    1st Dec 2015
    12:15pm
    Too true MIck
    aly_rob60
    1st Dec 2015
    10:16am
    If our politicians had real integrity, they would all take a huge pay cut to save our country, instead of attacking the underprivileged, the mentally and physically impaired and those who have paid taxes all their lives, only to be told that WE are the burden! And how about having the intestinal fortitude to go after the large corporations who owe us billions in taxes???
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:14am
    Not sure the pay cut is the issue but the allowances and access to their pensions on leaving politics are.
    Did our pollies not double their salaries in a 3 year period with a trade-off of removing the ridiculous allowances? So why do we still pay pollies to live in their own homes away from home and also to get rent from other pollies co-renting in the same house. Where is the ATO compliance??????
    Happy cyclist
    1st Dec 2015
    11:46am
    Gee, Mick, I like it much more when you attack politicians instead of women. Keep it up.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:11pm
    Ouch.
    Old Man
    1st Dec 2015
    10:29pm
    Mick, you are being a tad unfair I think. The system of Pollie's super was changed by Howard and only affects those who entered Parliament after the 2007 election. Gillard changed the entitlements by almost doubling salaries but the trade-off was deleting Gold Passes and a host of other perks on retirement. This only affected those members elected after the 2013 election.

    It's a bit like the super scheme devised under Keating in that it will take a number of years before the full effects come to pass.
    MICK
    2nd Dec 2015
    3:06pm
    You have a point. Conceded.
    tisme
    1st Dec 2015
    10:27am
    carers like me are entitled to it , with the government paying us 2.50 an hour to care for family 24/7 if we didnt who would and where ??
    Alula
    1st Dec 2015
    2:49pm
    tisme: Politicians need to swap jobs with some of us for enough time to make it sink into their thick skulls.
    Lorrainehk
    1st Dec 2015
    10:28am
    I have worked hard all my life to put money into my house and superannuation to support myself in a comfortable retirement. I will mortgage my house if I need to when my super runs out.
    My taxes have been spent over the years in order for me to reap the benefits of living a good lifestyle in this lovely country for the last 60 years. Why should my children struggle to pay high taxes to support the large numbers in the baby boomer generation who can support themselves?.
    The pension should only be a safety net to allow those who cannot support themselves to live a comfortable retirement.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:15am
    So how do you feel about having to sell assets and live off the capital because your assets do not produce enough return in a low interest environment to keep you?
    Fliss
    1st Dec 2015
    11:32am
    Got to say you have a point there Lorraine.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    11:36am
    Uncalled for mick.
    Happy cyclist
    1st Dec 2015
    12:03pm
    I agree with you Lorraine. Life is about working, paying tax and providing for ourselves -- if we are able to. For those not able, there needs to be support. But as far as Mick grumbling about selling assets, what are assets for but to use to support ourselves. I always thought that was the meaning of building assets -- to use as needed.
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2015
    12:12pm
    Mick's comment is fair.

    My kids, and the kids of EVERY couple I know, are far, far wealthier than my husband and I could ever hope to be. But we funded our parents' and grandparents' retirement without complaint, through taxes.

    I agree that those who can support themselves, should. But being able to support oneself means receiving sufficient return on investments to match the level of pension and accompanying benefits WITHOUT drawing on savings that were carefully set aside in earlier years to enable greater comfort later.

    Low-income battlers should NOT be compelled to sacrifice everything they went without to save long before they reach the end of their lifespan. Nor should they have to sacrifice the opportunity to leave a little to their offspring or grandchildren if they've gone without luxuries (and often even necessities) to enable them to do just that. The money people save through overtime, weekend work, and extensive self-sacrifice should not be seen to be for the benefit of the nation. It should benefit those who worked hard to acquire it. If it doesn't, people won't save, and then where the nation be? Morrison's policy change to the pension taper rate rewards people generously for being fiscally irresponsible and punishes those who work harder and save. That's dumb!

    The aged pension IS an entitlement. That fact was enshrined in legislation decades ago, and a system was set up to fund it. Sadly, Fraser stole the funds from those of us who are now entitled to benefit from them.
    Rae
    1st Dec 2015
    3:03pm
    Maybe those enjoying taxpayer funded childcare could sell a few assets or forgo the annual overseas trips, brunches, coffees etc instead. Same thing isn't it.
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    3:41pm
    I agree Lorrainehk. I'm over this I worked hard I deserve it nonsense. Today we have young families struggling while pensioners live in expensive houses and claim the full pension with all the benefits. These struggling families could also do with some of these benefits. But alas they pay full wack for them after they pay taxes as well.

    The age pension is welfare and should only be available to those who need it not to those who deemed their entitled to it so why not take it. I know a lot more people in the entitled category than the need it category.

    Don't start me on childcare. Why would anyone have kids and then hand them over to others to look after them? Yes I know the government sees it as employing more people so assumes it is better for our economy.
    Rae
    2nd Dec 2015
    7:10am
    Bonny. The aged pension is not and never was welfare. However it will be classed that way if proposed changes to the language pass next year, Very Orwellian. A tax surcharge was introduced to be set aside for pensions then rolled into consolidated revenue decades ago. Working baby boomers all paid it for their working lifetimes.

    The struggling families around me live in huge houses, drive a couple of expensive cars and holiday overseas. They may whinge about the mortgage but in comparison to most baby boomers starting off in the late 60s and 70s they are much better off with a larger percentage of disposable income than we ever had.

    Those entitled to an aged pension take it because of the ridiculous cost of rates, medical, electricity etc that is discounted. A benefit of removing that entitlement will perhaps be a slowing of the 6% yearly increase of these fixed costs. A problem will be the forced sale of property, increased homelessness of aged and subsequent aged care situation when there is no bond money left.

    Childcare as set up by the government feeds into GDP whereas the past situation of stay at home mothers or locally sourced babysitters never did. The government does not care about employing more people at all just the GDP.

    Unfortunately retirees do very little for the GDP bottom line either. Not that GDP means much in the real economy but it is the figure government decisions are based on.
    buby
    4th Dec 2015
    10:01am
    LOOK THIS is where our money goes........
    they have worked it out so they go without.

    http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/12/03/16/29/ex-pms-cost-taxpayers-500-000

    And i at my age 63, can't even find a decent place to reside in?
    They disgust me. I didn't vote in the suckers......
    LiveItUp
    4th Dec 2015
    11:02am
    It's a good thing there are not as many ex pollies as pensioners.
    Peterrj
    1st Dec 2015
    10:35am
    Drew, '... the Age Pension is an entitlement earned from a life of hard work and paying taxes.' Drew, you know that is a misleading statement!!!! The criteria for getting the Aged Pension includes neither of those conditions!!!! To be 'entitled' to get to a Age Pension one only needs to be of pensionable age, a resident of Australia and have a low income and few assets! Working hard and paying taxes gives this 'entitlement' ... probably to others!
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:17am
    I agree but the current government has changed the rules to force people to sell assets in a low interest rate environment and live off the capital. I would be in favour of an income test but the assets test needs to be put back where it was as it was reasonable.
    Tom Tank
    1st Dec 2015
    11:49am
    A universal pension scheme was set up and deductions made from everybody's wages many years ago. Robert Menzies, when he became P.M., took all those contributions into consolidated revenue and stated that aged pensions would be funded from income tax.
    The age pension therefore is an entitlement and not welfare.
    There is also the contradiction in current government policy that the compulsory superannuation deductions were set up as a trade off for a wage increase. NOTE compulsory but the current government are now going to reduce the penalties for businesses who do NOT meet that legal obligation while having also reduced the ATO's ability to identify those law breakers.
    I don't think we need ask whose side Scott Morrison, and the LNP, is on as they are also talking about reducing company tax thus affecting the income side of the budget.
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2015
    12:14pm
    Correct, Tom Tank. Thanks for reminding readers of history.

    Menzies made sure the age pension was AN ENTITLEMENT. He also declared that those who received it should NEVER be regarded as ''welfare recipients'' because that term was degrading.
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    3:47pm
    What is wrong with spending your capital in retirement? Not much use to you after you die.
    Peterrj
    1st Dec 2015
    5:51pm
    mick, you are starting to get me really worried. Yesterday I said that I agreed 'conditionally' with one (1) of, your comments. And today, you said that you agreed with my posting above??? So no more of this as it has to stop forthwith!!! OK!!!!
    Emps
    1st Dec 2015
    6:03pm
    Bonney, what happens if you spend all your capital in retirement, but don't die?
    Peterrj
    1st Dec 2015
    6:20pm
    Emps, 'what if you don't die'??? Aye? Can someone please tell Emps the 'facts of life'???
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    8:59pm
    OK I tell those funeral fund sellers that I don't need funeral insurance because I'm not going to die. Other than that I do know that one day I will die.

    Does it matter if your capital runs out before you die? At least you would of had the benefit of that capital not leave it to someone else to spend.

    Once you are dead your body becomes just a disposal problem. So as far as I'm concerned it won't bother me how it is disposed of. Left instructions for no fancy funeral stuff for me and definitely no funeral service. If people can't say things to me while I am alive why bother saying them after I am dead. Nothing in it for me.
    etty44
    2nd Dec 2015
    12:47am
    OK, for those of us who don't know , when did the Menzies scheme end, and become normal general taxation for the good of the populace?? How many years did it run for? Did it run long enough that people realistically funded their retirement? Why did they stop it?
    Because that sounds like Entitlement to me, especially as I presume they were also paying their normal taxes.
    Nowadays though, no it's a Pension,welfare for those who need it. No shame to it, but plain & simple taxes cover everyone & everything. We have no more claim to it than the heavily taxed young people saving for homes. Saying you paid taxes all your life means nothing. We all do, and we all have enjoyed the benefits of what our taxes provide.
    Anonymous
    2nd Dec 2015
    1:46am
    Bonny, some of us may live a lot longer than others. Being forced to sell assets now to live may imply hardship later on. For my part, I went without a great deal and made huge sacrifices to acquire savings and assets for three reasons:
    (1) I knew my husband and I would face heavy costs in later life due to health issues resulting from deprived childhoods
    (2) We had suffered unbelievable hardship as children and young adults and wanted to be sure our children and grandchildren would never know that kind of hardship
    (3) We have a disabled grandchild who has extensive needs and we wanted to provide for his future.

    Now, we are compelled to sell assets and drain savings in our early years of retirement, meaning that there won't be money for those health needs later. We might live another 30 years. If inflation continues as it has, by then a million dollars will be a drop in the bucket. But our assets will have dwindled to a tiny fraction of that. There will be nothing left to pay for health care or aged care and nothing to leave to our disabled grandson - who, consequently, will be a burden on the state.

    We had a financial plan to be fully self-funded within 10 years by continuing to be frugal, and then to leave enough to our grandson that he would never need a pension. Morrison's short-sighted and grossly unfair changes to the assets test have ensured that we can't achieve that, and the cost to the taxpayer will be far, far higher - while we will be denied the benefit of our efforts. Meanwhile, our children are looking at us and asking why we worked so hard and went without so much, and are saying ''there's no point. The Government just screws you over and steals whatever you don't spend.''

    I don't want a fancy funeral. I want to be allowed to choose how I spend the money I earn. I don't want to see gamblers and holiday-makers propped up by taxpayers while those who save for longer-term goals are denied the benefit of their saving. I am disgusted that selfish people want to deny others the right of choice of how and when to spend their earnings.

    The assets test is WRONG on every level. It is cruel and unfair. It is very bad for the economy. It sends entirely the wrong message - i.e. that work and saving is futile but the lazy and wasteful are rewarded.

    And, by the way, many folk have assets that they CAN'T sell in the current environment. Centrelink puts absurdly unrealistic values on some assets. And some assets are of value ONLY if they are held long term. Being forced to sell them at the wrong time may render them virtually worthless. But self-serving bat-eyed or tunnel visioned fools can't see past their long noses to appreciate the realities of life and to respect the rights of others.
    Peterrj
    2nd Dec 2015
    7:13am
    Rainey, I get your general drift. Putting aside personal tragedy many will be walking in your financial shoes before too long, they just don't realise it yet!!!! I totally agree with this sentence, "The Government just screws you over and steals whatever you don't spend.''

    Stats, I am only concerned by your stats. If you planned to be self funded then how does the lowering of the assets test impact upon your self funded plans? How is the Govt compelling you to sell your assets??? Age here is critical. If you are 5 years younger than being of pensionable aged then you could give some of your assets to your children, reduce your assets and then claim the Aged a Pension. If of pensionable age then you can still give away significant assets and 5 yrs later you could then claim the Aged Pension. But you planned to be self funded, so how are Aged Pension changes adversely impacting upon your plans??? Stats, I am only and purely interested in the stats, OK.
    Rae
    2nd Dec 2015
    7:14am
    Bonny some of us have family and friends who love us as we love them. The funeral service was never about the dead it is there for the living to help cope with the huge grief of permanent separation.

    Not everything is about you.
    LiveItUp
    2nd Dec 2015
    11:04am
    Rainey if you are self funded retiree then the lowering of assets test shouldn't be of a concern to you. It's not for me in fact I think it doesn't go far enough. It should also include the house and stop people up sizing just to get the pension. If less people relied on the pension then the government would be able to provide more for your grandchild.
    LiveItUp
    2nd Dec 2015
    11:10am
    Once you realise people die then why grieve over something you have no control over. Never made any sense to me.
    Anonymous
    6th Dec 2015
    2:41pm
    Bonny, I said we had a plan to be self-funded in 10 years - using the part pension we'd receive for that time. So yes, the change to the assets test does concern me. In fact, it devastates us. But you love to make assumptions. And who trusts the government to provide more for grandchildren? I want to provide for my grandchildren, because the government will continue to waste money and give tax cuts to the rich, just like it always has.

    I relied on the government as a child, because I had no choice. And the government didn't provide for me adequately. Not even reasonably. Instead of protecting me, as it is supposed to do under our Constitution and Human Rights law, it allowed bureaucrats and government-authorized people to abuse and deprive me.

    I worked my guts out and saved every cent so my children and grandchildren would never have to rely on the government, and so that I would have enough to retire in comfort. But the government just takes everything we battlers work for to give to the wealthy. And you endorse that cruel and unfair theft. Guess you must be among the privileged who don't know what it is like to be screwed by government and society?
    Peterrj
    7th Dec 2015
    1:31am
    Rainey, I won't be touching on personal tragedy, but when you say you intended to be self funded then that means exactly that ... You fund your retirement from your own money and not partly from the welfare payment of the Part Aged Pension. Surely being self funded in retirement does not include money given to you for free from the Govt???

    Having said that, the changes to the pension scheme in the New Year will be a betrayal of many decent pensioners like yourself!
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    11:00am
    Is comprehension a problem for some? I SAID, Peterrj,that we intended to be self-funded IN TEN YEARS TIME - NOT NOW. We strove not need a pension at all, but the huge fall in investment returns meant we were eligible for, and needed, the part pension in the interim in order to achieve that goal. Now it's unattainable, and in fact we will cost the taxpayer a lot more long term because being forced to erode our assets early in retirement means that as inflation bites, we will need and receive a part pension in a few years, and we will never become self-funded.

    Yes, the changes are a betrayal of many decent pensioners. Worse, they constitute fraud, because the government bought the votes of many by promising no changes to pensions in this term. Regardless of when it comes into effect, the change was made in this term, so they lied - and lying to get a benefit (power and a generous salary, fringe benefits and retirement benefits) is FRAUD.

    What angers me most, though, is that presumptuous people like Bonny endorse the gross unfairness of giving pensions to people who spent freely during their working life but denying them to people who chose to save for future needs or to leave something to loved ones who may have a very genuine need to inherit a little. She presumes to tell others how they should live, with no knowledge, understanding or empathy for their personal situation and clearly no interest in being fair and objective.

    1st Dec 2015
    10:35am
    I, like most of the other people frequenting this site, have worked hard all my employment life, sometimes at two jobs, until the time when I had saved enough to GLADLY give work away and retire. To me the Aged Pension is a RIGHT, not a privilege or welfare. It is something I HAVE PAID FOR, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be quiet and let the government CHEAT me out of it. The drop-kick on-the-dole bludgers, the baby factories, those feigning Mediterranean Back, couples living together and claiming single pensions, etc, etc, etc are the ones Centrelink needs to nail. There have been many Current Affair and Today Tonight type programs showing the inside of Centrelink's "amazing" new IT systems to catch the pension cheaters, but there hasn't been a lot of success stories about doing so. Pull your fingers out, switch the systems on, and take the unfair "entitlements" away from these lowlifes. Be interested in GENUINE pensioners who have paid exorbitant taxes their working life and only RIGHTFULLY want a bit of it back before they die!
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:19am
    Rights up to a point...but there are people who have funded their own retirements quite well and should NOT be permitted to access the pension. The rules just need common sense and an absence of political perversion which always bow to vested interests.
    Happy cyclist
    1st Dec 2015
    12:07pm
    Oh, please, don't tell me you believe anything on Current Affair or Today Tonight. Its just sensationalist rubbish. You need to watch quality news and current affairs if you want to be properly informed, that is non-Murdoch owned media.
    Sundays
    1st Dec 2015
    12:53pm
    People who have funded their own retirement quite well should not be able to access the pension Mick?Where do we daw the line. The person who saved and has a few assets, but can access a part pension vs the spender who gets a full pension. The spectrum is wide. It is an entitlement and especially so when compulsory super has not been around long enough. Scott Morrisos speech may apply to our grandchildren, but not to us. I'd like to see him live on the full aged pension. If you are single and renting it is barely above the poverty line
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    12:57pm
    You make a good point Happy cyclist but a few things are worth watching on the two programs you mention. Not much though.
    There are still quality programs like the 7:30 Report...which already has a large following. Its one Tony ABbott and his crook cronies were unable to avoid and the belief that the government could could control the media came unstuck very quickly. This is why Abbott wanted to sell off the ABC. Good try!
    There are also other great avenues to become informed. Having suffered the propaganda so called 'News' stations for a long time I have all but swapped to SBS where you get a REAL view of the world. As for information the ABC has a number of good stations which give a fair appraisal. This government hates it as it keeps being exposed for the lying government it is.
    We live in interesting times.
    Peterrj
    1st Dec 2015
    6:10pm
    mick, it's good to see that you are back on your medication as you have toned down your comments!! LOL!!!!
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2015
    8:42pm
    Yes, mick, I've noticed that too. You're doing very well, just don't miss a dose.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    9:51pm
    Peterrj: sarcasm is the lowest kind of humour. It appears to me that the comment "you can't handle the truth" (jack Nicholson) has a bit of relevance here.
    The facts are there. Denial is useless. And Party lines is a sign of weak character.
    I actually have no allegiance to any Party because I recognise that all are dishonest. But then some are corrupt to the bone. Cheers.
    Peterrj
    2nd Dec 2015
    7:36am
    LOL mick, I have noticed a real change and mellowing in some of your recent posts!!!! I am actually starting to agree with some of them!!!! Emphasis on the word 'some'.

    Fast Eddie: ummmm '... couples living together and claiming single pensions, ...' Now there is somerhing to think about. What's the stats, the Aged Pension for a couple is about 34,000 and say $24,000 for a single. If elderly, and who isn't on the Aged Pension, have two bedrooms, two bathrooms and for financial reasons can't sell the family house and buy two houses then why can't a couple say they live independent lives and remain under the one roof. Provided such assertions were true then hey presto, they can give themselves a Govt welfare payment of an extra $14,000 for having the courage to tell the truth!!! I know a couple in this situation, they live in opposite ends of the house and rarely speak to each other .... they claim the Aged Pension for a couple????
    MICK
    2nd Dec 2015
    3:12pm
    Don't believe any Peterrj. Check the facts for yourself. That's what all parties should be doing...as well as trying to ut the (many) bits of the jigsaw puzzle in place to get a feel of how things are really progressing rather than taking the word of journos, who are often conflicted. In the end FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL. It never ceases to amaze me how this normally ties players together. Cheers.
    OldRed
    1st Dec 2015
    10:39am
    The Government is so concerned about superannuation accumulation that they are dropping penalties against employers who do not pay their employees superannuation. Just like the Governments push to get rid of union influence on superannuation boards so that our industry funds become loss making ventures like those in the banking and financial industries. Get you hands off our super and fix the economy.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:23am
    Count on this government to allow the big end of town to ravage ordinary citizens who cannot afford legal action to get what is rightfully theirs in the first place.
    I found it striking that THIS GOVERNMENT went after unions ($80 million cost) and got no real scalps and also watered down legislation introduced by the previous government which protected citizens from bank fraud. The pattern is becoming familiar....as is the money trail.
    Voters who are considering voting this government back in would have to be brain dead as it must be obvious to even the most simple amongst us what the game is. And we are on the menu!
    disillusioned
    1st Dec 2015
    12:26pm
    So correct Old Red. The BIG banks (monopolies) are salivating at getting their hands on superannuation funds. We can't win - these robbers are going to be excellent at carving out chunks from our super, all with the assistance of our governments. Everywhere you look you are being stalked for anything you've tried hard to put by to see that you can support yourself as much as possible into the future!!
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    12:58pm
    Not the big bank disillusioned. The government. It has been circling like a shark for some time. Give it a while longer and superannuation will be nationalised. Coming.
    disillusioned
    1st Dec 2015
    10:59am
    Honestly where do these guys get off? why not get big business to pay their share of tax instead of looking at people's hard earned assets to pillage. Interesting to check out the spending by Coalition since they were elected. Scarey!
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:27am
    Depends on who yours backers/owners are. Very likely that this government was backed by the big miners, specifically the coal industry and also the big banks.
    We can all see the results:

    1. repeal of Carbon Tax. Taxpayers now have to find an extra $80 billion a year. And Australia has an international reputation as being a high polluter...with Greg Hund doing what he is good at: standing in front of the cameras and lying again.
    2. big bank have been let off the accountability hook and may now resume their attacks on their customers.

    As I always say follow the money trail.
    wally
    1st Dec 2015
    12:39pm
    I think that the bureaucrats should be put to work figuring out how to get multi national corporations like Google, Microsoft, American Express and the like to pay their fair of tax on money made in Australia instead of hiving it off to overseas tax havens. Certainly, the "horse has bolted" in this area, but surely there must be some ways the tax office and parliament can close this tax loop hole.

    All they seem to want to do is hit soft targets like carers and disabled pensioners instead of going after the fat cats that can hire hordes of lawyers to fight their cases for them. So once again, if it looks too hard, it goes into the too hard basket and is forgotten. So the little Aussie battlers wind up suffering from the misguided efforts of the Australian Tax Office to make up the losses that the "generosity" to big business by previous governments have foisted on the taxpayers.

    As an aside, what part of "Sunset Clause" don't the parliamentarians and their advisors understand?
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:05pm
    Not rocket science wally as they are sending money TO THEMSELVES. Transfer pricing is a rort and this government is joined at the hip to the rorters. Why else do you think they refuse to act and that a well understood practise is not outlawed?
    I imagine that all that would have to be done is that legislators tighten tax law and put in place an 'Arm's length permissibility' test. That way the ATO makes the call if a transfer is legit or not. And then add to that penalties for the time taken to unravel the web of deceit put in place by companies to disguise their movement of money. Maybe even use the proceeds of crime legislation and take assets where significant corporate fraud is detected.
    Now there would be a REAL government. Don't expect the current one cannibalise its election funding providers though.
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2015
    8:45pm
    Wally, it's the "grandfather clause" we want, not the sunset or Santa.

    1st Dec 2015
    10:59am
    If politicians and top public servants cut out there booze parties and 5 star accommodation when travelling this would probable support quite a number of people on the pension. Stop politicians from getting there pension when they leave politics then getting a high paid job make same rules for everyone. They should only get their pension when they have retired permanently and reach retiring age which I think is 70 in the mean time they could go on to the new start allowance but of course they would not qualify
    FrankC
    1st Dec 2015
    11:25am
    Talking of travel, why did Malcolm Turnbull need his wife along on the climate conference trips. Totally unnecessary expense. And another thing, what a load of crap that is regarding rebates for child care. If you are jointly earning $340K a year, you can afford the child care, you DO NOT need a rebate of 20% or any per cent.What was it for $250K, 40%??!! Words fail me. Who thought these figures up, Scott Morrison? Who is he looking after? Certainly not all the poor pensioners on "welfare handout".!
    Fliss
    1st Dec 2015
    11:37am
    I know this is off the super' topic ....... but those figures you quote FrankC for childcare rebates are unbelievable! If people can't afford to have children then don't have them. Child care rebates are ridiculous. Only people benefitting are Child Care Centre owners. Abolish the rebates altogether & reduce prices to a reasonable level.
    auzie3136
    2nd Dec 2015
    3:57am
    Good one Fair Dinkum.I quite agree with you They should be made to play by the same rules we do.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:09am
    Likely Morrison will use the growing deficit problem to demonise the bottom end of society and pensioners whilst wanting to leave corporate criminals alone and continuing to pursue this government's agenda of reducing taxes for the wealthy. It's been no different since day1 and the new leader may possess more acumen but Turnbull is still at the helm of the SAME ship wanting to ravage the bottom end. Disgraceful behaviour from people who claim to be Australians but who are clearly little more than puppets of the rich.

    Indeed Drew the pension IS A RIGHT...although it needs to be moderated against wealth and income. The current assets test is nothing more than a rort to bring down draconian measure on those who have a few bob and maybe a rental property to help supplement a pension which only goes a certain way.

    If there is any reason to vote out this crew then add up the lies, deceit and attacks on ordinary citizens and you get the picture. This lot have to go!
    Sundays
    1st Dec 2015
    1:07pm
    Scott Morrison will not qualify for the aged pension, but he will qualify for the most generous super scheme in the country. The contributions he makes to this scheme are small compared to the top up the Government makes. Yet, he would see this as an entitlement?
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:17pm
    This is the problem with politics. Nothing corrupts like absolute power and this government has turned bastardry into an artform. It will be remember for decades for its behaviour.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    6:10pm
    It's them against us mick?! David and Goliath?!
    Karl
    1st Dec 2015
    11:21am
    I don't agree that the aged pension is an entitlement. I believe it is a safety net for those who are unfortunate enough not to be able to properly fund their own retirement. With people living many years longer than they did in 1908, I the country cannot afford this idea that the aged pension is an entitlement. It isn't, and it economically can't be.The numbers and the demographic changes are obvious. Karl
    Fliss
    1st Dec 2015
    11:41am
    Spot on Karl.
    If it were an "entitlement" then every one who has ever worked & paid taxes would receive it, regardless of there own accumulated assets.
    Tom Tank
    1st Dec 2015
    11:53am
    Check back to my earlier contribution to this discussion to see that Robert Menzies established it as a right.
    Obviously it has to be moderated to ensure those who don't need it should not get it.
    Peterrj
    1st Dec 2015
    6:27pm
    Tom Hank, think about your position: 'The Aged Pension is a right' but then you say 'it's not a right for everyone'??? So how is that a 'right'??? Better have a rethink on that one!!!
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    11:03am
    Just because some are wrongfully denied their rights, doesn't make it any less a ''right'', Peterrj. It IS an entitlement. It's just that successive dishonest government chose to deny that right to some in order to give unfairly to others.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    11:24am
    So as many of us argue that the Age Pension is an entitlement earned from a life of hard work and paying taxes.
    Does anyone know what the residency status is? How long does one need to live in Australia to qualify for this entitlement welfare? How many years of hard work and paying taxes is required???
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    3:53pm
    A lifetime is not enough for me to qualify. If it was entitlement I would qualify but it can't be an entitlement because I don't qualify. So it must be welfare as not everyone qualifies for it.

    It is that simple.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    6:12pm
    Try explaining to them that you are a female refugee??
    Peterrj
    1st Dec 2015
    6:37pm
    Frank, what a silly question, 'How many years of hard work and paying taxes is required (to be paid the Aged Pension)?' We all know it is zero, zilch, none .... Hard work and having paid taxes is NOT a relevant consideration to be paid the Aged Pension!!!! All you have to do is get old, don't work and spend everything you have .... That will then guarantee that you are paid the full Aged Pension!!! Anyone seriously disagree with that statement of brutal fact??? If you disagree then explain why it is not true!!!!
    etty44
    2nd Dec 2015
    12:53am
    Agree Peterrj. You can say entitlement if you like the sound of the word better...but its actually not.
    Rae
    2nd Dec 2015
    7:33am
    I have a friend who pulled the entire amount of super out, sold a reasonable unit and is building a lovely new home on the waterfront.
    She will get the aged pension now and it is much more than the returns from her investments. Clever thinking and many more will do exactly that I suspect. She will be in her new home by Christmas, bought a new car and a pre paid cruise as well.
    Peterrj
    2nd Dec 2015
    8:00am
    Rae, indeed that is an option but I don't know if it is a good option. Rates on such a property could be crippling for those 'only' on the single Aged Pension??? Plus, when it is her turn to got to an Aged Care facility her nest egg is her home ... Which will be needed to be sold to fund her entry into the Aged Care facility. But that is not the end of that story. She sells her waterside unit for a motza, a large sum of that goes into the Aged Care facility entry fee BUT she could have a large amount of cash left over ..... Which could then deny her eligibility to get the Aged Pension ... Her Aged Care fees then hit the roof!!!!! As they say, you can't eat the house. Her cash investments could be whittled away over time giving her a better quality of life and, later, much lower Aged Care fees.

    Spending to lower Assets to get the Aged Pension could be a good idea for some but spending everything to buy an expensive house just to get the pension???

    You have raised a very vexing issue. Any other views on this option???
    Rae
    2nd Dec 2015
    12:52pm
    Her investments were not earning as much as the aged pension she will receive. So she has a much better house, lots smaller rates as corporate body was a fair bit at the unit and aged pensioners get a reduced rates bill, a new car and at least 120 dollars a fortnight better income. It was a sensible financial decision actually.

    The other discounts will be welcome as well.

    When bank bills were 8% living off savings made sense but at 2% and falling that 75% drop in income means the aged pension may not only be an increase in earnings but much less of a worry as well.

    The percentage of people going into aged care is actually quite small.

    As for selling the house and losing the pension she couldn't get it anyway under the new amounts and as I said was earning much less than the pension.

    Investing in a deflationary cycle is not easy. A pension is reliable and there is no risk of capital disappearing.
    Peterrj
    3rd Dec 2015
    6:05pm
    Rae, OK, perhaps a good financial move by her but others may need to exercise some caution before trying to do what your friend has successfully achieved.

    I take particular note of your comment: "A pension is reliable and there is no risk of capital disappearing".

    And, the less you have the more reliable it becomes. Just ask those who are about to lose the Age Pension due to a lowering of the upper threshold for assets. Plus, those 'pensioner' added benefits and discounts are nice to receive as well.

    There is a lot of economic sense being an Aged Pensioner. A point lost on many YLC readers!
    jjjadams
    1st Dec 2015
    11:25am
    Peter Martin, The Age, Dec. 1 2015

    “The tax concession on superannuation contributions will cost the government $17.35 billion this financial year. By 2018-19 it will cost $20 billion. The treasury believes it would grab most of it if it taxed contributions at marginal rates. Very little would leak elsewhere, in part because most super contributions are compulsory. The concession on the earnings of super funds costs $16 billion, but by 2018-19 it is set to almost double, costing $30 billion.

    Left unchecked, these extraordinarily generous concessions will make our tax system increasingly leaky, especially as more and more high wealth Australians retire and move into the phase of life where they pay no tax whatsoever on their super fund earnings, no matter how big.”

    Look after their mates, our politicians.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    11:32am
    Not quite true jjjadams. The government has stated it will correct this unnecessary tax advantage.
    jjjadams
    1st Dec 2015
    11:40am
    Hey Frank, is gullible still in the dictionary ?
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:10pm
    Contributions to superannuation funds would dry up if you taxed money going in at marginal rates. But if government did this and left the 15% tax on fund earnings in place (or even a 2 tier rate) then maybe it would work.
    The whole issue is that the concessions are large and that they quite disproportionately advantage those who already have many other tax minimisation techniques available to them.
    The money save would indeed fix the growing 'pension' problem...and have money left over for other spending...or saving (can somebody explain to me what that word means).
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2015
    2:18pm
    The system is skewed to benefit the rich. The poor may actually pay MORE tax on the money going into their super fund or returns on super investments than they would pay if the money was personal earnings. Instead of a flat 15% tax, why not a 15% rebate? That would still encourage contributions, but would give a fairer benefit to low income earners and would surely raise more revenue.

    By all means, tax retirement income to super funds, but only after it exceeds a fair threshold ($75000 sounded reasonable to me!). And tax it at a concessional rate only up to say $250,000 a year, and then at normal rates. Why should battling workers subsidize the retirement of the very wealthy?

    And there certainly should be a lifetime cap on contributions - but NOT an annual cap because that disadvantages those who have periods of being unable to work or of earning low income and then want to contribute more during their more prosperous years.

    The other change that I think is essential is to stop treating superannuation money and savings etc. the same in retirement. If someone was lucky enough to have employer-funded super and get tax concessions as a result, they lose $3 (from Jan 2017) for every $1000 they have. If an unlucky battler goes without luxuries and holidays to save, he loses $3 for every $1000 he put away. How is it fair to treat him the same as the privileged guy who enjoyed the high life but had a better deal from his employer?

    What confounds me is why we pay politicians so much money when ordinary people can come up with simple, common-sense solutions to problems and the pollies can't see the wood for the trees. Or maybe they can? They just collect too many brown paper bags for indulging the rich and powerful.
    Peterrj
    2nd Dec 2015
    11:08am
    I hate to say it but mick is right, 'Contributions to superannuation funds would dry up if you taxed money going in at marginal rates.'.

    So there is the problem, how do you make voluntary savings In Super attractive enough to save a nest egg on retirement that does not require you to claim the Aged Pension and hence save on the Welfare Bill???

    For every $1 saved in Super above tne minimum threshold that then saves the Welfare Bill 50c each year multiplied by the life of that excess in Super. In 10'yrs that $1 saves $50, 20 yrs that saves $100. Small bickies??? If savings in Super make one ineligible to claim any Aged Pension then that saves $34,000 per couple per year or $340,000 over ten years or $680,000 over 20'yrs. Actually the savings to the public purse are even greater but surely you get the point?

    We need people to voluntarily save cash in their Super fund. However to do so, which saves heaps to the public purse over time, it must be made attractive enough for people to be silly enough to do so!

    But the betrayal of those who have tried to be as self funded as they can be has only just begun!
    Swinging voter
    1st Dec 2015
    11:30am
    It's not welfare. Retirement age = pension. News today the Productivity Commission still pushing for inclusion of family home in pension assets test. Australian decision-makers have become extremely aggressive towards older people. Why the hatred of people who like their homes and want to stay in them? It is usually fat cat CEO's who want to make life-time hard workers pay more - but look for their logic. Subsidising overseas aid that Bishop is so keen to increase, keep in comfort 12,000 Middle Eastern long term dole recipients? Pay for the 50,000 Centrelink seekers that popped in during the self-congratulatory Gillard Rudd years? Retirees better get organised because slowly, slowly the metaphorical mud beneath them is deliberately being turned into quicksand. No quicksand under Chairman Mal's big house - the poor bastard couldn't even bring himself to slum it at Kirribilli.
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2015
    12:18pm
    Retirees could be the most powerful voting group in the nation. We have the numbers. It's time to unite and use that power. Otherwise, we are doomed to live out the rest of our days in poverty and misery. The attacks on us by the selfish rich will not stop.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:12pm
    I have been saying this for a long time. The trouble is you have ageing and old people who are super apathetic and who cannot vote any other way than they have for the past 50 years. What's the definition of dementia?
    You are spot on though Rainey. All we need is a Party which is not an offshoot of the current government like some already doing the rounds. A real Party. We could indeed reshape the political landscape.
    Peterrj
    1st Dec 2015
    6:50pm
    Swinging Voter: Retirement Age = (Aged) Pension??? Aye??? That's going to be a really long swing as NO party supports that point of view???
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    10:18pm
    Indeed if retirees got off their junkets and worked as one for the common good we (retirees) could be shed of the bastards who waste our tax money and who ruin one of the best nations on the planet.
    auzie3136
    2nd Dec 2015
    4:04am
    Agreed swinging voter your right.
    Anonymous
    2nd Dec 2015
    7:45am
    Correct, Peterrj.Which is why we need to unite and use our power. Form a party that stands for respect, decency and fair dealing with retirees. Run on a platform of ''Stop the vile attacks on older Australians''.

    No, I don't support ''retirement age = age pension''. Those who have enjoyed generous superannuation plans and can support themselves at better than the level of pension +benefits from super should do so. But the assets test includes personal savings acquired by going without, and even assets that have no genuine value. The level is way too low given current rates of return. And those with modest assets are treated far more harshly than the lucky folk who can continue to earn, so, for example, someone who receives lump sum compensation for injury that prevents them earning ever again is dealt with very unfairly - basically denied the benefit of their compensation. Someone with modest savings acquired by living very frugally in punished, not rewarded, for their efforts while those who spent wastefully are looked after, but the genuinely disadvantaged are living in poverty.

    I would support limiting the pension to those with inadequate income to live a comfortable lifestyle in retirement, but leave assets out of it except for making provision to ensure people don't deliberately lock up assets in low-returning or nil-return areas to qualify under the income test.

    The family home should be exempt up to a very generous threshold, with special provisions for homes in high-value areas if a person has lived in the home for a long time or it has been a family home for generations, or if the occupant is too old to cope with a move. Stamp duty concessions would, of course, be required to allow people to sell up and move if desired.

    Superannuation tax needs to change to enable younger folk to save for retirement. The low-income supplement should be restored and greatly increased. Annual contribution caps should be abolished in favor of a lifetime cap. The flat tax rate should be abolished and replaced with a % rebate up to a generous threshold and then the same tax as on earnings after that. In effect, the system should provide for negative taxation on super - so those on very low incomes have their contributions topped up by the taxpayer via a tax return to their fund. Of course fund management needs to be cleaned up to ensure money is wisely invested and management fees are kept low.

    We need common sense and respect for taxpayers. But we also need fairness and decency for retirees and to stop sending the cruel negative messages that are so offensive and hurtful. Retirees need to feel respected, cared for, and safe. Currently, there is a climate of fear because the rules keep changing and the rhetoric is all about the cost burden we present - no acknowledgment of our value in society or the contribution we made. No recognition of any obligation to us. It's so bad that many have come to think society just wants them to die quickly so taxpayers don't have to support them.
    Peterrj
    7th Dec 2015
    7:42am
    "It's not welfare. Retirement age = pension."???

    Pension = Govt free hand out = Welfare.

    The Pension is not something earnt, unless you accept that getting old and graduating form one form of welfare to the pension is considered to be 'earnt'. The other way to 'earn' the Aged Pension is to have low or no income at the same time as having no or few assets ... then you earn the Aged Pension??? Spending and not saving for retirement is another way that you can 'earn' the Aged Pesnion???

    What's the big deal about calling the Aged Pension what it is ... It's welfare, it's a welfare payment, of course it is!!!!

    If you give me Menzies or Hawke then you are living in the past and I suggest that you get in contact with the 21st Cantury!!!

    1st Dec 2015
    11:35am
    To me the pension is a safety net for people who can"t provide for themselves for one reason or another but it most definitely should not be used at the pokies/*tab or by funding overseas trips as so many pensioners that I know use it for.
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2015
    12:25pm
    Robbo, a person's income is theirs to do with as they please. If they choose the pokies or an overseas trip over a better house or nicer furniture or regular outings with grandchildren, that's their business. But as things stand now, those who spent their income during their working life (on pokies and overseas trips, for exampe) now get a generous pension, while those who saved their money for later don't. That's grossly unfair and economically unwise. We should be encouraging saving by rewarding it, but retaining the right of people to choose how they live and spend.

    The age pension is an entitlement. That fact was enshrined in legislation years ago. It should be paid to EVERYONE who hasn't sufficient assets to earn at least the equivalent of the pension plus benefits. People's voluntary savings should be their own to spend as they please. Superannuation certainly should be used to fund retirement where possible, but currently the laws don't differentiate between super, savings, and assets acquired by other means (i.e gifts, inheritance, etc.) That's just plain wrong, and it means wasteful spending is encouraged and rewarded and fiscal responsibility is harshly punished.
    Peterrj
    7th Dec 2015
    7:58am
    Rainey: 'The age pension is an entitlement. That fact was enshrined in legislation years ago.'. The problem is that over time legislation changes and, as you very well know, the Aged Pension rules will be changed in the New Year ... Due to legislative changes. This entitlement is only good for a given moment and the entitlement can change, as we are now seeing all too frequently. I don't like the expression 'entitlement' as it gives the wrong impression, if it was an entitlement then every retiree would then get the full Aged Pension but that is not so.

    At best, the Aged Pension is a 'conditional entitlement' which does not guarantee that this 'entitlement' can't change at the stroke of the legislative pen from one Budget to another. Because one can go from being eligible (aka entitled) to receive the Aged Pension to NOT being entitled to the Aged Pension then I don't think one can really call the welfare payment of the Aged Pension an 'entitlement'.
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    11:10am
    As I said elsewhere, the fact that some are denied their entitlement doesn't make it any less an entitlement. Much of the legislation passed since Hawke came to power is actually unconstitutional.

    The aged pension is an entitlement, whether the government recognizes that fact or not. It's a question of ethics, morality, and integrity. But this government has none of that (and the opposition don't have much either!).

    What concerns me about calling it ''welfare'' is that it's derogatory and degrading. Further, it positions the government to reduce the living standards of those who receive it, because ''welfare'' is charity. You only give as much as you want to. Retaining the term ''entitlement'' helps ensure that it is maintained at a level that provides a reasonable standard of living for most recipients. That's something worth fighting for, I think.
    Lescol
    1st Dec 2015
    11:37am
    As a person who has just month reached pension age I regard the aged pension to be an entitlement and I intend to vote for such in every future election. I was 'promised' an aged pension and I saved and skimped in order to be able to supplement it. Instead I now find no pension and insufficent savings as the goal posts were moved. Anger is but one word that comes to mind.
    Peterrj
    1st Dec 2015
    6:52pm
    Join the club! And it will only get worse for retirees!!!
    Peterrj
    7th Dec 2015
    8:11am
    Lescol, perhaps 'betrayal' is another word word you would like to use???

    But this 'promise' of a Part aged Pension has me curious.

    Who made the promise?? Was it a Financial Adviser by any chance??? And you then structured your finances around such sound financial advice???

    I did and then they changed all the rules re retirement and the Pension almost immediately the day I retired!!!

    P'd off is another word perhaps ... no, that's two words.
    BrianP
    1st Dec 2015
    11:39am
    Millions of Australians will join together to tell the Governments enough is enough. We are fed up with being ripped off. Like most low to middle income people our super has been mostly lost by the super companies we were forced to pay it to while we were hard at work.

    Meanwhile the rich were given tax breaks on super to become even richer.
    Politicians and civil servants were given index linked pensions.
    CEOs were given golden handshakes.

    All this while the rest of us were told to pay compulsory super. All that did was line the pockets of the brokers and super companies, while much of the time they lost our money on the stock market.

    Then a new way was invented to rip us off. SMSFs. Many accountants rubbed their hands together and talked people who had lost a lot of their super to put whats left into a SMSF. Then the accountants and auditors fees went up and up.

    The governments failed to place safeguards on SMSFs to protect small retirement funds and hey presto - there are now so many Australians with little or nothing to retire on.

    Well done our governments. You have failed us.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    11:45am
    Agree, some people don't have a choice. They must be in a union fund.
    Fliss
    1st Dec 2015
    11:53am
    Individuals don't pay compulsory super. Employers have to pay super for employees. It costs the employer not the employee. The employee then has a choice upon whether or not to supplement that amount by making concessional or non-concessional contributions.
    And doubt very much that any accountant has ever talked someone into setting up their own SMSF, & if someone did ever allow themselves to be "talked into" it, then how silly are they?
    No way can you blame a get for such a situation - as unlikely as that situation is.
    Tom Tank
    1st Dec 2015
    12:08pm
    Ah Frank you just don't give up do you. The industry funds have both union and employers representatives on their boards and those funds consistently out perform the commercial funds.
    Everyone has a choice of which fund their super contributions go into altho' some employers are given special deals from a bank, for their business banking, provided the employer sends their employees super contributions into that bank's super scheme.
    This is of course illegal and unethical but if the boss thinks he will get away with it he/she will do it. Most people, especially younger ones, are not switched onto super and don't really care until it is too late.
    The original compulsory super contributions were traded off against wage increases so it was employees money not the employers.
    In our brave new world of individual contracts etc the employee doesn't have any clout unless they are in a union but the LNP consistently try to change the rules so that an employee cannot have someone else represent them during negotiations.
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2015
    12:32pm
    I know a man whose super was used by his employer (a local government authority) - with union consent - to pay high workers' comp insurance premiums for his ''dangerous'' job. But the salary was pathetically low because for wage purposes, the union agreed the job was ''not dangerous'' (Only 15% of workers in that job were killed or maimed each year!)

    His first two years' wages were stolen by the State of NSW because he was a ward of the state and a minor.

    Now he is expected to support himself in old age because, having been so badly defrauded by governments, he didn't trust them so went without necessities for decades to save a nest egg that would enable a comfortable retirement and ensure his children inherited a little and never had to endure the poverty he suffered.

    I know many others who suffered massive losses through mismanagement of funds.

    Please don't preach to me about superannuation being ''for retirement'', Mr Morrison. We paid taxes to fund retirement. Menzies set up a scheme to ensure we all benefited from an age pension. It's an entitlement for those of us who worked for decades and paid our dues. And until the system allows ordinary workers to live comfortably and still put enough into super to fund their retirement, the pension system should be left well alone.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:17pm
    Frank: you idiotic troll. Industry funds are the BEST performers. But you know that.

    Brian: pretty well agree with most of your post. Only divergence is that funds may be inefficient but they have not lost member money other than when markets have melted down. That is normally quickly recovered though.
    As I said to Frank above industry funds are the way to go. They are the ones THIS GOVERNMENT has tried to dismantle because they consistently beat the commercial funds hands down. Tells a story about the funds and about who owns this government. Keeps coming back to the same thing.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    1:23pm
    Yes Tom the Tank I'm like your idol Bill Shorten. I don't quit. :)
    You appear to know all about industry super. You sound almost like a promoter of it?

    "Everyone has a choice of which fund their super contributions go into"

    You're wrong about choice though. Many people are forced into an industry scheme because of where they work. Just like those workers who become members of a union without their knowledge.
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    4:02pm
    Even if some people still don't have a choice where their employers put their super they do have a choice not to leave it there. I know of people who move their super every year into other super funds.

    Industry funds are not the best performers for every body. I know of a person that was in the best performing industry funds and their super went backwards due to excessive fees.

    The old adage applies here too. It's your money so you need to look after it.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:18pm
    Some employers put people's super into their own pockets. I do believe they NEVER end up in jail.
    Anonymous
    2nd Dec 2015
    7:51am
    Mick, read my post starting with ''I know a man...'' Funds HAVE lost money through mismanagement, wrongful dealing, and even straight out theft. It certainly is NOT the case that it's only been through markets melting down. And in many cases the money could never be recovered under any circumstances - for example, where it was used to pay WC insurance for the employer, or where it was just plain stolen by fund managers. And I doubt anyone has gone to jail for superannuation fraud - employer or fund manager!
    MICK
    2nd Dec 2015
    3:17pm
    I am not arguing the point with you Rainey. Just saying that Industry Funds have been killing retail funds and the current right wing government has been trying its best to turn Industry Funds into Retail Funds. The reason? Most likely because the Retail Funds are worried about being put out of business and are pressuring the big business government we have at present.
    Is there fraud in Super funds? Clearly there would be. Show me anywhere where big bucks are involved and I'll show you sharks and crooks. That's why we have police and courts. But it does normally take a whistleblower or prudent audit.
    gumtree
    1st Dec 2015
    11:40am
    I'd like to have Joe Hockey's post treasurer job in lieu of the aged pension. I know I'd do a better job than Joe (poor people don't drive cars or don't drive very far) Hockey. He was supposed to be in charge of finance for the country! Perhaps he has Scott Morrison to thank for the 'pay off'! Seems Scott Morrison can make remarks just as stupid. Insulting all pensioners & those with "entitlement".
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    1:35pm
    How much can a koala bear???
    Peterrj
    2nd Dec 2015
    2:22am
    A fair bit I'd say as he doesn't have to go far as he is already in a gumtree!
    mogo51
    1st Dec 2015
    11:42am
    Why is it when a pollie get the exhaulted job of 'Treasurer' he turns into a vampire, trying to suck as much money he can out of the poor and retired?
    Morrison is doing himself no good drumming this tune, he needs to get a life!
    It is about time the pensioners and the needs of this country form together to unite against this continual 'bashing' by this and previous governments.
    I call on this forum and website to start a campaign to show them they are on the road to nowhere.
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2015
    12:34pm
    With you, Mogo, 100%. But Morrison was a vampire long before he became treasurer.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:19pm
    Its called the Liberal Party. Guess who provides ELECTION FUNDING for this side of politics? Not rocket science so guess who you owe when you get into government. The rest is history!
    Alula
    1st Dec 2015
    2:55pm
    Mogo51: Morrison and his mob have got a life, by sucking ours dry.
    Rosscoe
    1st Dec 2015
    11:42am
    Different PM - same lousy government! These people have no idea!
    Alula
    1st Dec 2015
    11:45am
    Will this latest be enough to tip us into revolution?
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:22pm
    It'll take a lot more than that. Maybe extreme poverty whilst the rich are living it up even more + an ISIS attack on the country at a time our leaders are talking the 'calm' talk.
    People are getting a gutful of lying politicians. Getting worse. They are becoming more brazen with every day which passes.
    This is a bushfire waiting for the right spark. Then no amount of damage control is going to work. But as I said give it time.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    3:58pm
    Alula, that is a strange question? Did you mean to say evolution??
    Pollyanna
    1st Dec 2015
    11:47am
    People on the aged pension have deserved it. They did pay their taxes and a earn enough to get a huge payout on superannuation. I just wish all these politicians had to live on our salery and lose all their payments and benefits when they retire. The country would be better of and they might learn how the average person makes ends meet.
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    4:08pm
    If people deserve a pension why doesn't everybody get one.

    If people would just wise up to the fact that one can use their capital as well as the income form that capital for a better retirement then Australia would be a much better place. I just can't understand why people go without and leave money behind after they die.
    Anonymous
    2nd Dec 2015
    7:52am
    You are denying people the right of choice of how and when they use their savings, Bonny. That's the communist mantra. Welcome to Communist Australia everyone.
    Willfish
    1st Dec 2015
    11:50am
    Ahhh. Lovely to see the age of entitlement rolling on. Pollies with their snouts in the trough threatening the rich with their snouts in the superannuation tax break trough, and now telling the baby boomers that the age pension is not "an entitlement". Then the empire strikes back. "I have worked all my life to get an old age pension/my superannuation tax break", and "how dare they suggest the family home to maintain my standard of living, rather than pass the house on to the kids so they can get their snout in another trough (tax free)". I just had a strange thought!. Maybe I was working all those years so that my family and I could enjoy living in the best country in the world, not just to get my entitlement of the age pension when I get to 65. I really hope there is never an end to this age of entitlement. It will be a real bugger when we all have to fully contribute to the cost of running this country and its wonderful lifestyle. Why should I have to pay for what I get?.
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2015
    12:37pm
    Turn that around,Willfish. Why shouldn't I get what I pay for? Why should those who squander their money get the benefit of mine and my children's taxes while I have to live on the proceeds of my earlier sacrifice?

    The country won't benefit from policies that crucify the fiscally responsible to benefit the rich and greedy. It won't benefit from policies that generate anger, resentment and division by putting degrading titles on battlers. And it certainly won't benefit from turning against the huge mass of retirees who rightly believe they have a right to enjoy some comfort in old age after a lifetime of hard work.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:27pm
    We have done the same as you Willfish as well as made other investments....at great cost to our lives. Our aim was never to get much of a pension but simply a part pension. But now, like many others, the plans are out the window.
    The ultimate betrayal is talk of retirees selling their homes, downsizing who knows where and spending the capital, leaving the kids NOTHING. All this while the bastards in this government take their self determined 'welfare' which begins from the day they retire, is not means tested and goes on until they bastards die. Sooner rather than later one might hope.
    Ordinary Australians need to stand up to the tyranny which is being unleashed on us all.
    THIS GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO GO. In a big way. VOTE FOR AN INDEPENDENT and send the bastards the clearest message possible!
    Linda
    1st Dec 2015
    11:55am
    To pull out that word welfare is disgraceful. There is no way I will be voting liberal, they have wasted tax payer money, allowed industry to write their own rules to serve vulnerable people needing aged care, have treated so many people with disdain, simply because a former government did things differently. This is completely disrespectful of Australians who have worked and paid taxes for benefits that they themselves will not enjoy. This is not fair or just, it is simply poor behaviour.

    To suddenly say to a few generations of Australians who have funded the aged pension with their tax contributions, are now considered welfare recepients to receive the same.

    It is fair to assume that at some stage, since superannuation came into being for most that many who would have relied on the aged pension now will not need it because they had high enough earnings and the ability to make contributions.

    There will be many though, through market forces, family needs, health who will not be able to enjoy self funded retirement. To call this welfare is in my mind a very poor choice of words that loads emotional things around the aged pension that does not belong there.

    I will not vote liberal, no matter what, these guys simply do not understand the times we are in and the way forward for a prosperous Australia.
    Pollyanna
    1st Dec 2015
    12:06pm
    I agree with everything you say Linda, but I do not believe we will be any better off on Labour. Look at what Labour has done to S.A. We have the worse education in the country. We have a dictator for a Premier who does not listen to the people who voted for him but just does as he wants (eg Closing our hospitals and rehab centres when the people spoke out loudly they did not want it done) We have the worst unemployment in the nation and that is only going to get worse. I agree Lobs do some crazy things but look what Gillard and Rudd did to this country!!!
    Linda
    1st Dec 2015
    12:07pm
    Basically, the current government is trying to fix their own poor financial management by taking money from poor people and degrading them by calling it welfare. How many people understand that now, even folks living on just the old age pension will be asked to pay 300/ pm for in home aged care assistance? How many people understand the way the industry gets their fingers in the pie to cheat the government and the oldies of money and services?

    This is all about a given vision of a society that is modeled on the stupid right wing ideology that has been proven to degrade national economies.

    This government is admitting their own failure to find and develop viable replacement industries for the ones they have dumped, and instead have poured good money after bad into global warming products. They have failed at many aspects of their jobs and yet have the very best pay and retirement and insurance arrangements that our tax money pays for.

    There is a better way to do things and it needs to start now.
    Before they came into power we were on an upward trajectory to reap benefits from changing to renewable energy, things were put into place that were paying for themselves. The current government looks to have been purchased by some world is flat believers that have enough money to bribe them into destroying Australia's future.

    Creating disharmony is very bad. They do it every day.
    Linda
    1st Dec 2015
    12:14pm
    Pollyanna, I agree with some of your ideas. Currently, the world needs political parties who can see that dealing with global warming, and reliance on polluting fossil fuels is like taking Australia back ..using giant steps to less prosperity, less industry, less education across the board, less health care, and it on goes.

    When only some are being asked to do the heavy lifting while wealthy people use super as a tax dodge only, owning several homes, boats, cars, etc, while a modest income retiree is being told to sell the one thing they own, their home. What is next, with the next government? This is it, the changes are coming hard and fast in all directions depending on which government is in charge.

    We must get a grip and decide who and what we are, and the divide between ideologies should be way smaller.

    No matter what this lot says, the next lot will say something else and they will nibble and fiddle with things till they too whittle down what ever citizens have because they can.

    It makes me sick.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:33pm
    Good post Linda. You have my vote.

    Pollyanna: you are repeating the propaganda. Rudd and Gillard did not do bad things to the country. In case you missed it WE HAD THE GFC and no Australians lost their jobs whilst the rest of the world had double digit unemployment. Do you appreciate what this could have been like.
    Of course there was a financial cost but would you have wanted your children holding a mortgage and no job. You can't have it both ways!
    And for the record Gillard got through oodles of legislation which Tony Abbott mostly repealed when he got in. Good legislation. Don't believe all of the right wing propaganda you hear as it is mostly lies. Well we all know that this is what this government is good for.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    4:19pm
    mick, we missed the GFC? What do you put it down to? Set top box program? Cash for Clunkers? Pink Batts program? The raising of the bank guarantee? The Union Boss training program? The NBN? The Carbon Tax? The live export ban? The newly formed Carbon Capture and Storage Institute? The $30m market research on voting preferences? The $25m lease on the new office for Labor's clean energy regulator? Or was it the well spent $1m given to Rob Oakshott to have a tax forum? What came out of that btw? Was it perhaps the massive donations to schools to build new premises? Or maybe a combination of all those?
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    4:39pm
    Are you there mick?
    I'm sure Greece is waiting on your response as well?
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    6:18pm
    Pollyanna, its no better in Victoria or in Qld where they raped and pillaged the energy sector and drove up prices to households.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    10:40pm
    Frank: your list of issues is dwarfed by the lies, deceit and total waste from the current government. The previous 2 governments enacted legislation for the benefit of ALL Australians. This government has wasted billions of dollars for no good use, repealed good legislation for its mates in big business and repeatedly attempted to push money into the bank accounts of the big end of town whilst taking it from those who have no excess.
    Morally corrupt! And your posts indicate that you are the messenger of this bunch of cutthroats. Shameful!
    Adrianus
    2nd Dec 2015
    10:04am
    mick, green and red tape is like using thick, dust collecting grease on the cogs of industry. You constantly talk about the poor or the rich, pitting one against the other. What of the real drivers of our economy? The other 80% who are neither rich nor poor? They are getting trampled into the mud as your ideology runs over them to get to the rich and the poor.
    Rae
    2nd Dec 2015
    1:01pm
    I'm a bit confused over the red and green tape and the language used in legislation.

    Supposedly from the Ist of next month defined benefit pensions from funded schemes will change for Centrelink entitlements. This is to effect State public servants but not Commonwealth or Defense as they are unfunded.

    However research shows the last accounts for NSW State Super had an unfunded liability of over 2 billion dollars.

    Is the fund funded or unfunded and how will that effect decisions by Centrelink according to the new legislation? Damned if I can figure it out.
    MICK
    2nd Dec 2015
    3:24pm
    Frank: you so much remind me of Tony Abbott. I recall Abbott got in front of the cameras and said that he was not interested in "Class warfare". Then his lieutenant brough down one budget after another where poor and average citizens were attacked at their bank accounts. At the same time Abbott, and now Turnbull, have been talking about "lower taxes".....for the rich!! The rest of society will get peanuts whilst the top end of town will get truck loads.
    By all means keep talking the "economy" and ignoring one of the main drivers (money). You are full of it and I pity you Frank. As I keep saying, I cannot understand how you look in the mirror given that your posts are blatant propaganda.
    Peterrj
    3rd Dec 2015
    6:32pm
    Hey Frank, no prizes for guessing that mick would agree with Linda!!!

    Rae, your comments and observations are falling on deaf ears!!! No matter how you look at it, except for many YLS readers, those on a Defind Pension do and have paid tax on their defined pension money!

    But, can I mention it before mick does, retirees and pensioners have been betrayed by the current Govt. Frankly, before we all run out and vote, I can't see a future Labor Govt giving retirees and pensioners a better deal. We are all 'screwed' and it will only get worse!!!! Enjoy what you have now before you 'donate it' to the Govt coffers!!!!
    Adrianus
    3rd Dec 2015
    7:34pm
    When it gets closer to Christmas mick will agree with me on something.
    renya
    1st Dec 2015
    11:55am
    While I worked hard all my life - mostly on pitiful wages - my superannuation only amounted to $36,000 when finally cashed in four years ago.
    To all those fortunate people whose lives went fairly smoothly and who were blessed with spouses who also worked, allowing you to amass decent savings for your retirement, please spare a thought for people like me who did their best but did not get ahead financially. Why? First mistake - and don't tell me you always made good choices - was marrying a spendthrift who thought my pay from three jobs was his good fortune to spend as he liked. Along with his own pay. Next "mistake". Having 7 children with this husband all the while working full-time and part-time. Next mistake, moving around the country with him as he searched for 'greener pastures' - we know that all this is pretty expensive. Never quite scraping up enough deposit for a house, and renting. Supporting same ex husband when he was out of work. Going into business with same ex, who squirrelled funds for an eventual departure from this country, leaving me with children aged 1 to 15, and the business. Next twenty years I worked like a navvy to educate my children and make sure all their needs were met, with no help at all from their father who had skipped the country to marry twice more and procreate again and again. Exhausted, then lost permanent position due to workplace bullying, and on Newstart for two years while working 80 hours per week on job applications and interviews - always being second choice. Eventually two jobs fell into my lap and I worked out my working days in jobs I loved, however too late to make much impact on increasing super. Nasty surprise the year I retired - exhausting time looking after my old mother now the children were off my hands - a diagnosis of cancer, which thankfully has been successfully fought. My children and their spouses all have amazing and highly-paid careers. The taxes they pay, conservatively estimated at $400,000 between the lot of them, more than pay for any pension I receive in my old age. Please do not insult me further by saying I am not entitled to it.
    Sundays
    1st Dec 2015
    1:23pm
    Reyna, you're definitely entitled!
    Alula
    1st Dec 2015
    3:01pm
    Hear hear!
    mareela
    1st Dec 2015
    12:00pm
    It never ceases to amaze me that people like swinging voter make sweeping statements "pay for the 50,000 Centrelink seekers that popped in during the self congratulatory Gillard Rudd years" with no evidence written or otherwise to substantiate said statement. I believe it was Gillard that gave pensioners their first raise in a very long time. This government by their actions towards pensioners would like to put them in a bus on a cliff and give a big heave ho. End of problem. It's obviously beyond them to sort out Australia's revenue problem. I forget that Morrison thinks we don't have a revenue problem only a spending problem. Pleasssse
    Swinging voter
    1st Dec 2015
    1:16pm
    I recall it was Gillard in Cabinet who was reported as saying a pension increase was unaffordable. Colleagues tried to cover for her, but Laurie Oakes must have had insider information. Statistics show that the vast majority of ME immigrants are still unemployed more than 10 years after arrival.
    The pension was never meant to pay for internet fees, car insurance, car registration, holidays, petrol, private health insurance etc. It was only ever meant to prevent people from going cold and being hungry. Over time, pensioners have increased expectations of what it will cover. I wouldn't call it an "entitlement", it is a small pension and anything that we need over the basics should be planned for, and should come from our savings. The family home is an earned comfort, just like a car and other conveniences. They have been slaved for and paid for and no-one should be penalised for thrift and common sense.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:38pm
    Both sides are bad. The Greens are unbelievably toxic.
    When people Labor bash it would be nice if they looked at the ledger, not just repeat the rubbish released from the current government.
    And then lets start a conversation about things like the Bishop helicopter fetish and the taxpayer funded $80 million Royal Commission into Unions run by this government with its man at the helm.
    Both sides have their issues. The current lot though is rotten to the core and need to go.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    1:43pm
    Why do people forget about the other 150,000 illegals let in by the Rudd/ Gillard experiment? Much emphasis is placed only on the 25% who came by leaky boat.
    Jannie
    1st Dec 2015
    2:42pm
    AGREE MAREELA I THINK WE WILL SEE A MASSIVE INCREASE IN SUICIDES BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN PUSHED TO OUR LIMITS AND ONE CANNOT LIVE ON THE LOUSY PENSION WE ARE GETTING. NO ALTERNATIVE IF YOU CANT AFFORD TO LIVE GIVE UP AND SUICIDE.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    3:53pm
    Jannie don't take any notice of all the fear mongers. If you're in need of welfare you will get it. Even Greece is still paying the aged pension. But we do need to donate money to the UN so that they can provide solar panels to poorer countries.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    10:41pm
    Nobody is listening Frank. Ask the Liberal Party for overtime!
    Adrianus
    2nd Dec 2015
    10:08am
    mick, if Jannie does something terrible it will be on your hands. :( Your political ideology knows no bounds and relies on scaring the livin begeezes out of poor old folk. Shame shame shame.
    MICK
    2nd Dec 2015
    3:25pm
    You do irk me Frank. The shame is yours.
    MILA
    1st Dec 2015
    12:01pm
    AND THEN....MORE MILLIONS TO TAKE THOSE WHO CALL THEMSELVES "REFUGEES" AND, WHO ENJOY MORE BENEFITS THAN AUSTRALIANS AND, SENIORS SHOULD BE FIRST ON THE LIST. STOP
    Alula
    1st Dec 2015
    3:03pm
    Mila, they don't enjoy more benefits than Australians - that's a myth. Please check the facts.
    tj
    1st Dec 2015
    3:27pm
    Alula you are wrong Mila is right Your facts are wrong
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    3:44pm
    It is much easier to get the aged pension if you are a refugee or a woman.
    Jannie
    1st Dec 2015
    6:50pm
    Perhaps we all should get on a boat sail away north then come back in without a passport do you think we would pass the authorities? If so we could then get all the handouts as a refugee, the government is so dumb I feel we could get away with it. I was watching the doomsday preppers on TV and going by what they are doing big disasters are ahead, if not war, weather disasters and a world financial crash. No hope for the human race it seems.
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2015
    8:55pm
    I'm not a refugee.......so I got no free mobile phone nor credit card, free meals, food stamps, hotel accommodation? - nope. Where Have I gone wrong?
    rpflemo
    1st Dec 2015
    12:02pm
    I think the politicians and others are forgetting that perhaps the majority of pensioners did not have the opportunity to be able to invest in Superannuation, to receive huge lump sums as it did not start until they were close to retirement.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:40pm
    What they ignore, not forget, is that average wage earners do not have the spare cash to throw into the superannuation feeding trough set up for the rich. That is the real injustice of a system set up for the big end of town.
    Old grey
    1st Dec 2015
    12:03pm
    Seem to forget that the original purpose of the introduction of income tax was to fund the old age pension. Now that we are actively "encouraged" to put 10% of our income into superannuation, wonder how long it will take before these greedy buffoons try to grab that as well (citing a budgetary necessity to fund all of their lavish lifestyle). Instead, how about cutting back on the waste (billions of $ on fighter aircraft that have only just been tested, and we won't be getting them until 2018, when they will be superceded, tanks too big to be transported, millions spent on "feasibility" studies for projects that could never eventuate).
    The age pension is not a hand out, but an entitlement we have worked and paid for.
    Linda
    1st Dec 2015
    12:20pm
    Too right, spot on, exactly, etc.
    venturers
    1st Dec 2015
    12:10pm
    I look back on nearly 55 years of employment where I was taxed to the hilt.
    My taxes were used to carry numerous perks available to the "fat Cats".
    Fuel tax being siphoned off to many projects not applicable to the roads.
    GST on many essentials.
    Taxes spent to control law breakers of which I am not one and pay for services which I would not be using.
    By applying hard work,common sense and a quantity of luck I have avoided being a drain on the country.
    The total taxes paid by all individuals, properly spent, would have more than provided for everyone's pension.
    No this is not welfare it is a return on monies given to the nation over a lifetime of employment.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:42pm
    And its getting worse. This government is after it all.
    Rae
    2nd Dec 2015
    7:51am
    The total taxes paid were mostly properly spent on infrastructure and services, These did make money.

    The Commonwealth and State Banks, electrical grids, telecommunications, public buildings and public service, schools, TAFE, water resources, hospitals, libraries, lotteries and lotto etc,etc.

    The billions in dividends are long gone now as privatisation has failed dismally.Those billions are stripped out and off shored.

    Of course there is a revenue problem. Blind Freddy could have seen it coming easily.
    Peterrj
    3rd Dec 2015
    6:43pm
    Rae, yours is the voice of reason! What is your prediction for the economic future of retirees???
    Adrianus
    3rd Dec 2015
    7:39pm
    In QLD the Labor government solved the debt problem by giving it to the power companies. Now the power prices have gone up and consumers are paying off the governments $4b debt. Meanwhile in Tasmania power prices have dropped by over 10% since the removal of the carbon tax and still dropping.
    andromeda143
    1st Dec 2015
    12:13pm
    It is not idiots like Morrison, who temporarily occupy plum government jobs with exorbitant payouts, who will decide whether the Age Pension is a welfare payment or an entitlement. This was decided years ago when his forebears decided to tax us to pay for our pensions. We will support that decision by voting Morrison and all his elitist cronies out of office. Their divine right to rule was countermanded when Charles II agreed to be a constitutional monarch. They just refuse to recognise this. However, their day will come.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:44pm
    "Rules" are changed to meet the situation. The more they waste the more they come after everything you own. The big end of town have no problems though as they are mostly left alone.
    Kat
    1st Dec 2015
    12:14pm
    Once again, stop the cheats in the welfare sytem and in the disability area. I know there are genuine cases but there a lot that are not. Leave the kegit seniors alone!
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    1:45pm
    Kat, I heard today that by including the house in the test it would push 360,000 off the pension. I think most on here would fit into that category?
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2015
    2:02pm
    Leave seniors alone, Kat. But lay off the disabled too. How would you know whether or not someone is genuine? Sure, there are a few cheats in every sector of society, but it's a small minority. Stopping them would save very little, and cost heaps. What we need is sound financial management and an end to greed, dishonesty and corruption.
    Kato
    1st Dec 2015
    12:18pm
    Creating the divide against pensioners is an art form for this government. Mr Smirk Morrison is nothing more than a polished con artist.
    Linda
    1st Dec 2015
    12:22pm
    Yep, I think so too.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:47pm
    Aren't they all. This side of politics is the absolute worst bunch of used car salesmen I have ever seen at one time in the same government.
    We need to stop taking this government seriously and just vote them out. So who do we vote in???? Who cares.....Independents, Labor....it matters not as all have highly paid advisors to help them make decisions. This government has the big end of town who tell them what to do.
    Chris B T
    1st Dec 2015
    12:21pm
    Why dosen't the Media use Demoniseing words to describe our politicians especially ones, like Morrison.
    He used this sort of tactic, with vemon the snake he is.
    Crowding all social security depts/medicre/welfare under one Dept, dose not mean everyone is receiving welfare.
    When referencing to politicians we lead with the Bludgers, Entilement Cheats as true it maybe. It wouldn't be consider tastefull or respectfull.
    Linda
    1st Dec 2015
    12:27pm
    I can't see why they need respect just because they were voted to work for us. I like your ideas, Bludger Morrison came out with a poorly thought out choice of words to describe Australian citizens, the very ones who trusted him to run the country and got very disapointed in his performance. He got his hand out anyway.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:48pm
    We don't always see eye to eye Chris....but I like it. Good post.
    rob
    1st Dec 2015
    12:29pm
    Hhope all the pensioners remember at the next election consider we have a powerful vote
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    4:17pm
    I don't think so as ACCOS is lobbying for much bigger changes for their pensioners.
    Anonymous
    6th Dec 2015
    2:46pm
    ACCOS has nothing to do with the voting power of retirees. Retirees have enough voting power to control the government, and I suspect they will use it. It's pretty clear most are fed up with the disrespect, unfairness and insults being showered on us by the mongrels in power.
    petergrimbeek
    1st Dec 2015
    12:29pm
    I'm not impressed by this obvious attempt to yet again dismantle some aspect of social infrastructure. Tony may have gone but his regressive thinking lives on. I cannot see this kind of talk being popular with older voters.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:55pm
    New PM. Same crew. Same game.
    jackie
    1st Dec 2015
    12:37pm
    I think all politicians should stop receiving their pensions too. They do not have to wait till they hit a certain age to get theirs, none are means tested and they are allowed to earn money that will not effect it. Something seriously, needs to be stopped about such blatant theft.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:55pm
    YES. YES. YES. YES.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    2:00pm
    mick you are really enjoying this government bashing???
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:25pm
    YES. YES. YES. This government deserves contempt for its ongoing attacks on working Australians and the poor. And then there are the intentionally broken election promises. And the attempts to lower tax rates for the rich, with the next one now on the drawing board.
    You are a disgrace calling yourself an Aussie Frank as your posts, whilst improving, are just a repeat of dishonest government propaganda. So who are you really? An ex pollie yes. Liberal Party MP yes. But whom?
    Peterrj
    2nd Dec 2015
    9:32pm
    Frank, and I thought that mick was mellowing??? Stop upsetting him. It may not be good for his health! OK!!!
    Lescol
    1st Dec 2015
    12:42pm
    As a person who this month reached pension age I regard the aged pension to be an entitlement and I will remember this in every future election. Simple. I was 'promised' an aged pension and I saved and skimped in order to be able to supplement a pension. Instead I now find no pension and insufficent savings as the goal posts have been moved. Anger is but one word that comes to mind.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    1:37pm
    For 30 years we have been told by governments of both sides not to rely on the pension.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:57pm
    Lescol: how does scrimping and saving add to your pension? Surely blowing all on a good time would give you a much higher pension.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    2:25pm
    mick you don't get it! He scrimped and saved too hard and now he is too wealthy.
    Rae
    1st Dec 2015
    3:36pm
    For 30 years we have been told a lot of things by governments of both sides most of it lies.

    Senior Citizens Tent City on the lawns of parliament house would make them look pretty bad in other countries that value their aged ex workers.

    New Zealand and other resource rich countries pay all their citizens an aged pension.

    Our governments have mismanaged the economy to an appalling extent and now want those unable to work to pay for it.
    Circum
    1st Dec 2015
    5:50pm
    And for 30 years Frank,neither party did anything to make the system more sustainable.They just kept bleeding it and reassuring people that alls ok.More recently Tony Abbots comments about.."its your money"
    Adrianus
    2nd Dec 2015
    10:13am
    Well good on Bob Hawke. He realised the message was not getting through and did something about it. He forced forced forced savings onto those who couldn't look after themselves.

    1st Dec 2015
    12:42pm
    Feeling strongly about this issue? Seems there is a lot of anger and a sense of suffering gross injustice. Well, shouting it here won't achieve much. Write to Morrison directly and tell him how you feel. Copy it to your local Federal Member, and to Labor leaders. The only way to get action is to ensure the politicians know just how strongly we feel. Retirees are a powerful voting force. They HAVE to listen to us if we stop moaning here and start uniting to demand respect and fairness.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    1:59pm
    We need a uniting voice rather than individuals. Then the bastards cannot ignore us any longer. Methinks that the next election will be interesting. If we did not have a half-wit leading Labor it would be a lay down misere. It frightens me to think how voters are going to vote but it is my hope that it is against this government no matter who the recipients of their votes are.
    Swinging voter
    1st Dec 2015
    5:33pm
    Morrison's staff must be reading this forum and today's other widespread angry public feedback. He has come out and refuted what sounded very much like:

    "Remove Old People's choice of Home and Penalise them for Slaving all Their Lives to Ensure They Do not require Taxpayer Funded Government Housing in Retirement" policy.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    10:43pm
    Maybe we need to start agitating so that pollies cannot touch their super until age 70. That way they will need to get a real job when they are so on the nost that they are thrown out of office.
    fedup
    1st Dec 2015
    12:47pm
    The age pension is an entitlement for retired hard working Australians we paid our taxes all our working lives we are entitled to it, I consider welfare as being for the lazy young unemployed that you see everyday in shopping centres walking around with about 4 or 5 kids in tow, and the numerous young ones smoking and drinking during the day, why does not the government attack these kind of handouts ????
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    1:29pm
    So as many of us argue that the Age Pension is an entitlement earned from a life of hard work and paying taxes.
    Does anyone know what the residency status is? How long does one need to live in Australia to qualify for this entitlement welfare? How many years of hard work and paying taxes is required???
    Eliza
    1st Dec 2015
    1:32pm
    Fair comment Frank
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    1:57pm
    You need to have been an Australian resident for a continuous period of at least 10 years, or for a number of periods that total more than 10 years with one of the periods being at least 5 years, unless you:
    •are a refugee or former refugee
    •were getting Partner Allowance, Widow Allowance or Widow B Pension immediately before turning age pension age, or
    •are a woman whose partner died while you were both Australian residents, and you have been an Australian resident for 2 years immediately before claiming Age Pension.

    I've looked and cannot find the part where it says anything about hard work and the payment of taxes??
    Anonymous
    2nd Dec 2015
    7:59am
    There are plenty of ways to contribute to society other than working hard and paying taxes. Many who never earn a cent and never pay a cent in tax contribute far more than those paying the top tax rate.
    Rae
    2nd Dec 2015
    8:14am
    Well now that people have woken up I suspect a fair amount of cash and bullion, jewellery etc will be deposited in safes all over the place. A post retirement career in safe cracking might be the go and a minimum cost retirement home in a country prison.

    Or to remain legal a pawn shop business or two.

    Will be interesting to see how many assets are passed on and the level of non concessional super going forward.

    As non concessional super is now classed as income, for centrelink purposes coming back to the saver, it isn't a step too far to imagine bank deposit savings being withdrawn being counted as income as well.

    Tax type changes have a way of backfiring as anyone viewing Dutch architecture or Greek unfinished houses will attest.
    Peterrj
    3rd Dec 2015
    6:48pm
    Frank, are you answering your own question?
    Adrianus
    3rd Dec 2015
    7:44pm
    HA HA HA!!! because nobody wants to confront the truth.

    Rae, interesting points.
    Peterrj
    3rd Dec 2015
    11:43pm
    Frank, and here I was thinking that you may be suffering from a Split Personality???
    Peterrj
    4th Dec 2015
    11:00am
    mick, I am disappointed in you as you have not accused Frank of ... Talking to himself!!!!
    Eliza
    1st Dec 2015
    1:30pm
    Each generation works and pays taxes to help support the next ... it is a payed insurance for the time when we are aged and more vunerable to the rising tide of everything ...
    ARE WE TO ABANDON THESE PEOPLE!? Are we to regress and become like the 'third world' countries!? Just take a close look at Northern Europe retiring their elders on full basic wage. They value there elders.

    YOU WANT MONEY MORRISON ...
    MAKE THE MEGA RICH - MILLIONAIRS, BILLIONAIRS PAY THEIR TAXES.
    STOP QUAKING IN FRIGHT AT THEIR THREATS.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    2:16pm
    Eliza you may be surprised to learn that Joe Hockey made some progress on this issue. He has formulated a system of income declaration which looks like standing a chance of acceptance by G20 nations. It really is a global problem like terrorism. Many mega corps simply set up over the border where the penalties are not as harsh. Ikea did it in the 1970's and many since. Pfizer recently announced a move from USA to Ireland after merging with Allergan. We are competing with other countries for industry and commerce and we are not winning. Even our own BHP has set up in Chile following a FTA introduced by the Labor government. Singapore's company tax is just 17% and their workers pay a top marginal rate of only 20%. Is it any wonder that they bounced their economy forward since 1965?
    We need to get into the fight.
    We cannot continue to waste tax revenue.
    We cannot continue to spend beyond our means, with the likelihood of solving the consequent issues with tax increases.
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2015
    2:26pm
    So we must abandon the needy and deny all obligations to those who worked their guts out to build this country to its current state and plunge retirees into abject poverty just so we can cut taxes? Is that what you are saying, Frank?
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    2:48pm
    Rainey, if you are calling a millionaire needy? Yes?
    Rae
    1st Dec 2015
    3:41pm
    millionaires are being paid plenty of tax rebates for all sorts of investments and millionaires are getting childcare rebates as well.
    This is blatant age discrimination pure and simple.
    Eliza
    1st Dec 2015
    4:05pm
    Yes Frank I did know that Joe Hockey was looking at the viability of making the mega BILLIONAIRS pay their taxes ... But these conglomerates are very powerful (so called 'King makers') and they have the ability to bring down governments through their control of all manner of public communication ... ALL governments are terrified of their control and crafty manipulation of the populous.
    And unfortunately a great number fall prey to this.

    As Frank said ... We need to FIGHT BACK ... People Power.

    SUGGESTIONS ???
    Rosscoe
    1st Dec 2015
    4:26pm
    Eliza. What we have to do is get out on the streets! I was a workplace delegate for 30 years. Lots of times, I took industrial action to retain/obtain better working conditions. I'm sorry to say that there were a lot of colleagues who benefited from my actions, but did nothing but scab off their workmates. People like Morrison depend on this fact - our nation is full of scabs!
    Rae
    2nd Dec 2015
    8:23am
    Eliza employee-owned corporations are beginning to fight back. We can also buy shares in the huge public corporations. In fact people power could be used to mount a take over of a public company at any time using computer generated seed finance. Like Uber and Air BNB it will come.

    Governments think the boomers are not up to scratch on this forgetting that we built the Web and wrote the language.
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    11:17am
    You think all the needy in this country who have been hurt and abandoned by this government are 'millionaires', Frank? What world do you live in? Nobody should take anything you say seriously if you are that deluded.
    quietguy
    1st Dec 2015
    1:34pm
    By your definition of the pension those who not work all their lives, and those who earn so little they dont pay tax should be excluded? If they are included then its welfare, plain and simple.
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2015
    10:31pm
    No, it's not quietguy. It's an entitlement for all. Those who earn so little they don't pay tax still contribute to society - often far more than those who earn a lot. Taxpaying isn't the only valid way to contribute. Carers and volunteers, for example, contribute greatly. Most of us have contributed in some way. For the very few who really haven't, the pension is still an entitlement because we SHOULD be above the level of animals. We should have a sense of decency and empathy and compassion for others. We should not be willing to denigrate and degrade people because they haven't the capacity to contribute as well as we might have to the society we live in.

    Robert Menzies declared the age pension was an entitlement, and declared that it should NEVER be called welfare, because that was degrading and disrespectful. Sad that we aren't, today, governed by folk with his sense of decency.
    DINGOPOO
    1st Dec 2015
    1:45pm
    Mr MORRISON STILL THINKS THAT HE IS THE IMMIGRATION MINISTER, AND HE WANTS TO PUT US ALL ON A LEAKY BOAT, AND SINK IT OF CHRISTMAS ISLAND,AND SAY THERE SWIM YOU BLOODY HANGERS ON.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:27pm
    Lifters and leaners. Swimmers and sinkers. Rings a bell!
    Grateful
    1st Dec 2015
    2:03pm
    This is NOT 1908!!! Even then, no one was expected to receive it as the life expectancy was way lower than 65.
    This is a completely different world and we have seen an introduction by the government that has changed the game. It's called superannuation, plus a MUCH higher life expectancy rate.
    Sure, superannuation came in too late for those who only had average wages and have retired in the 2000's, they simply had not enough time to accumulate the types of balances in their personal super to not NEED some form of "income supplement" payable by the government for their "reward for service", unless, of course they were millionaires to start with and have received massive tax concessions to give them a very comfortable retirement.
    So, until workers have had time to accumulate enough in their own super fund and the super laws are adjusted away from supplementing already rich retirees and to assist workers to accumulate those adequate balances, the age pension MUST be retained to assist those who have not had the opportunity to support themselves.
    Until that happens, the age pension remains a "conditional" entitlement, but, with many more strings attached in the form of assessing alternative means and assets. It certainly is not a blank cheque available to everyone.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:28pm
    The perfect reason for NOT pulling the carpet out from under the feet of those who do not have sufficient super to exist on.

    1st Dec 2015
    2:22pm
    The Superannuation Act will be altered next year to enable most Australians to enjoy the "worthy prize" of an "independent retirement".

    Well, wouldn't that be nice? In the last budget, a change was announced that denied countless thousands of retirees the ''worthy prize'' of an almost independent retirement and instead ensured they will not benefit from their years of saving and will either have to spend up big in a hurry or suffer an income far below that of their less frugal pensioner mates.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    2:46pm
    What's the solution Rainey?

    1. Keep borrowing and pass on the problem solving to our children?

    2. Grow our economy by exporting more?

    3. Cut our expenditure in all areas by a little or just some areas by a lot?

    4. Encourage more foreign investment in infrastructure?

    5. lower income taxes as an inducement, incentive for higher productivity?

    6. Increase income taxes which will probably lower productivity but provide an income stream for repaying Labor's debt?

    7. Increase GST to provide tax allocation flexibility in 5 & 6?

    8. Reconfirm the sole purpose act and rework the tax concessions to mirror its true meaning?

    I cannot see just one thing working to bring about the desired result by itself.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:41pm
    You know how it has always worked Rainey: knock average people down, tax them to death and give them nothing. So what else has changed?

    Troll Frank: your ridiculous post MIRRORS what this government intends to do, but you forgot reducing wages for average citizens and taking all penalty rates and overtime away.
    Your next idiotic post defies belief. The way to get the nation going is to:
    1. stop flogging off to foreigners those things which foreigners want: food and energy. Please explain why governments have let our superb LNG assets, lithium mines and freehold farming land be sold to foreigners and foreign governments? Stupidity which a hald wit would not even think of doing.
    2. put barriers back up to protect OUR NATION from predatory conduct and dumping and establish AND PROTECT industries so that we do not have to import what we can easily make or grow.
    3. develop those things WE invent rather than giving them to America to make huge sums of money from because we as a nation are (apparently) too stupid to make things and send them to market. So what does it cost to educate a person who invents something brilliant? Not chicken feed. So why are these inventions given away? Mindless imbeciles sitting in Canberra!
    4. Start levying taxes for all those who have the propensity to pay. NOT JUST AVERAGE AND POOR CITIZENS. Corporates should NEVER be allowed to take their profits out tax free. Only half wits think that is a fair deal.
    I don't know why I bother Frank. Your posts are straight from the Liberal Party manual and you have no real empathy for the nation you live in. As I keep saying I really do not understand how you can go home and look in the mirror every night. You must surely feel some revulsion at what you see.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    6:32pm
    Wow mick, I'm so pleased your advice is only accepted by a handful of people on this site.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:07pm
    And yours is a political advertising campaign for the next election Frank.
    Anonymous
    2nd Dec 2015
    8:02am
    Solution is simple, Frank. First, cut waste and politicians' benefits. Address tax evasion and stupid concessions. Stop the absurd spending on Aboriginals and introduce racial equality. Stop bringing in immigrants who can't assimilate and be self-supporting. And address the obscene superannuation concessions that are feeding the greed of the top 20% at the expense of the battlers who genuinely need a little help in retirement.

    Our welfare expenditure is low as a percentage of GDP. Pensions are NOT the problem. It's just that the corrupt LNP are so deep in the pockets of the greedy rich that they prefer to try to get blood out of stones than address the real issues.
    Adrianus
    2nd Dec 2015
    10:19am
    Rainey, I agree with all of that apart from the last sentence. My personal feeling is that the LNP is no more beholding to big business than the ALP or the Unions.
    MICK
    2nd Dec 2015
    3:31pm
    You crack me up Frank. The Abbott government repealed the Carbon Tax which now costs taxpayers $8 billion a year. A good tax which was doing a wonderful job. The Abbott government repealed the Mining tax so that mega rich miners could live the life of 2 Rileys and export money to their countries of origin. The Abbott killed off Banking legislation to stop the next Commonwealth Bank (and the rest) attack on bank customers.
    So the LNP id not ties to big business? It is as clear as mud that the LNP and BIG BUSINESS are ONE IN THE SAME.....a wholly owned subsidiary!
    Your are clearly a disgraceful troll Frank and should be restrained from posting if this is what you continue to call an "opinion"...which it is not.
    tia-maria
    1st Dec 2015
    2:24pm
    Scott Morrison............ One set of Rules for you and another for the........... HARD and worn out RETIRED PENSIONERS OF Australia........bloody shocking........all politicians have cheated their way through politics to gain massive pensions and the Perks after they retired......for doing stuff all.......while the rest pensioners received peanuts for working our butts off...........
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2015
    3:56pm
    Not all pensioners worked there butts off tia a lot of bludgers amongst them.
    Tomaso
    1st Dec 2015
    2:25pm
    Knew this would happen with them s/bag lying pollies, beware folks they are after us all along....
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:42pm
    Bet on it. The only caveat is that Labor may (??) go after the big end of town. Especially if it has a majority and is not reliant on the toxic Greens to get its legislation up.
    Tomaso
    1st Dec 2015
    2:30pm
    And that's why I withdrew my super too.
    Johno
    1st Dec 2015
    2:38pm
    NZ pay everyone of retirement age the pension regardless of income and assets? Why can't we?
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:43pm
    Good question. Do you have an answer?
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    6:33pm
    Well in that case it wont hurt to send a few back!
    Jannie
    1st Dec 2015
    2:38pm
    The next election will be very interesting, as I along with others that have retired are sick and tired of listening to the pollies knocking the age pension and saying we are a burden on the welfare system. I usually vote liberal but never again I will be looking for a more down to earth reliant party. I ask how can our government afford to bring in refugees, I would like to know what they are exactly giving these people. Also the fat cats in government have to have a pay cut and not retire on full pay with a pension we can only dream of, they should be treated the same as us. FED UP WITH BOTH LABOUR AND LIBERAL PARTIES.
    Rae
    1st Dec 2015
    4:00pm
    There are a lot of us Jannie and the path is there for another party to rise up perhaps. We shall see.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:45pm
    As I keep saying: VOTE FOR THE BEST INDEPENDENT YOU CAN FIND. If it came to a choice though Labor at the very least is not a wholly owned subsidiary of big business and you might get a fair shake. You should be aware that this is not going to happen with the current bunch and that all you will get is a 'bribe'......which will be cancelled after the election.
    Tomaso
    1st Dec 2015
    2:40pm
    Johno, cos we have stupid greedy useless pollies trying to out shout each other n spend money like nobody's business....
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:46pm
    Better known as LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY. But voters forget and let them get away with it. Make a pact now and do not forget when it comes polling day. I won't be.
    Tomaso
    1st Dec 2015
    2:43pm
    Also Johno, its the same in uk, n Sweden too.....
    it's me
    1st Dec 2015
    3:05pm
    if he knows the current system is not efficient enough, why did his party scrap the rises in compulsory super ( to be capped at 12%) put forward by labor????
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:48pm
    Answer: because this government is 'owned' by the big end of town and the big end of town do not want to pay super for its employees. All big business wants is to strip workers of everything they can whilst at the same time paying almost no tax. This is what happens when you let Dracula into the blood bin.
    Franky
    1st Dec 2015
    3:11pm
    Age pension is not welfare, it's something of a pay back for the years of paying taxes to be wasted by our governments, lining their own pockets in the process. I thought we were a generous nation??? I may be wrong....
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    4:13pm
    Why then don't I qualify if it's an entitlement not welfare? I paid all those taxes etc too.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:49pm
    Playing the devil's advocate Bonny. There is a point where the pension needs not be available but the current assets test is nothing other than the next attack on workers. A common theme from the current government.
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    5:19pm
    Yes agree there is needs to be a point where the pension should not be available and that point needs to be much lower than where it is now. Even the 2017 lowering of the assest test does not go far enough.

    I know of a person who died recently in a nursing home that left more assets than they had before they went into a nursing home. They were in a nursing home for 5 or 6 years and managed to save money from their age pension after paying the nursing home fees. This person bought whatever they wanted, went on expensive trips and the amount of clothing and shoes they had was astonishing.

    Why wasn't their assets used to pay the nursing home fees instead of the taxpayers money?

    Pension should be welfare and not just given to people because they are entitled to it.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    5:19pm
    I have paid a lot of parking fines over the years. I will be angry if I am not entitled to a new car or at least my own free parking space. Am I starting to sound Greek?
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    5:32pm
    Know what your mean feel like I own a bit of the road with my toll fees at times. Then again I do own a small bit of the toll company so get some back in dividends.

    Renewed my driver's licence yesterday and got a 50% discount for good behaviour.

    I once owned a unit in a capital city that had 2 parking spaces. I got nearly as much rent for one parking space as I did for the unit.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:08pm
    I knew you were an ex Liberal Party MP Frank.
    Anonymous
    2nd Dec 2015
    8:10am
    Bonny, I don't believe your crap about a pensioner leaving a nursing home with more than they went in with by saving from an aged pension. It's BS! Nursing homes take 85% of the pension, PLUS a lot more if there is any other income or the person has assets, PLUS most demand a bond of $400,000 and upwards, and although that's refundable the nursing home gets all the interest on it. Anyone who can't pay the bond pays a huge extra ''accommodation fee'' unless they are desperately poor and qualify for government funded accommodation which is very limited indeed.

    My mother is in a nursing home and I know only too well what they cost. I researched for months and checked with dozens of homes, government authorities and advisers, and hundreds of folk who have had relatives in homes. NOBODY is getting wealthier in a nursing home unless they are far too wealthy to get any kind of pension.

    Please stop misleading folk to support the Communist mantra of looking after the elite and screwing everyone else - ensuring effort can never be rewarded.
    LiveItUp
    2nd Dec 2015
    11:21am
    Unfortunately I'm not misleading anyone. I should know about this pensioner as I have had control over her assets since she went into a nursing home and now sorting out her estate. They wanted $600,000 for her bond but I negotiated it down to $150,000 and then invested the rest of her assets. She paid the nursing home less than she got from her pension and got a good return on her other assets. There was nothing fancy about it as she wanted everything to be very simple.
    Adrianus
    2nd Dec 2015
    11:38am
    Bonny you did very well to get more than a 6% return. Well done!
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    11:22am
    You negotiated $600,000 down to $150,000, Bonny? If so, there should be a government inquiry into the favoritism and unfairness going on in the aged care system. Plenty of people who NEED care and CAN'T AFFORD it have no hope at all of negotiating the bond down by even 15%, let alone by that magnitude. Every other resident in that home is suffering loss because of what you did for one obviously greedy and self-serving person who endorses unfairness.

    On the one hand, you claim people shouldn't be allowed to retain their savings, and on the other you support and assist this kind of behavior? I guess, like many, you see it as okay as long as it doesn't benefit others - only you and those you favor.
    disillusioned
    1st Dec 2015
    3:12pm
    It damn well is an entitlement, Morrisson - I've just been culled off it because I've got just under the assets limit and will have just over when the changes come in in January 2016. I'd like to see the pollies lose THEIR pensions because of too much assets. Morrison is penalising us oldies because he's smug in the knowledge this won't happen to him. Out Liberals!!!
    Rae
    1st Dec 2015
    4:03pm
    I'd like them to lose that $275 a night they pay to stay in their partners house. That is a ridiculous amount each night over a week.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:51pm
    There is the correct issue. The public needs to demand that pollies have the SAME rules as everyone else. SO WHERE IS THE FREE SPEECH MEDIA? Silent again. Is that Rupert silencing the voices?
    Crimmo
    1st Dec 2015
    3:13pm
    So, workers shouldn't expect to receive an age pension when they retire. Workers shouldn't expect to pay tax then. Compulsory superannuation will never replace the age pension as it is not universally applied to all. Just look at the building industry to work that out. Morrison should open his eyes to what is actually happening, pull his finger out of his arse and do something about it.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:52pm
    They do not care Crimmo. Make sure you do not forget at election time NO MATTER WHAT CRAP THE MEDIA RUN to get you to vote for its Party.
    Tathra
    1st Dec 2015
    3:17pm
    I`m almost 69 have no brothers or sisters, never married nor had children so.......
    Can I sue the government for maternity leave and child care on the grounds its discriminated against me and my tax dollars I have paid over the years!

    Yes I know that's silly but to get serious I`m on a part pension as I have saved too much money and got too much in my super to be on a full pension, not that either are very high but they are just over. Surely I`m to be praised not condemned. It has meant I`ve been able to keep up my health insurance on the highest level which came in very very handy last year when beating cancer a second time. This is just one thing I`ve been able to keep up that although probably quite minor does save a bit for the government.

    No its not welfare in my opinion to get the aged pension.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:54pm
    That's the thing about governments Tathra. They have protected themselves and made themselves unaccountable. You simply cannot sue the government or any ministers. But there should be a federal ICAC to catch out the crooks in the ranks. Funny how they refuse to form such an organisation. So what do they have to hide?
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    3:30pm
    I glad to see an article earlier today Scott Morrison is looking at adding the house to the assets test. People in expensive houses should not be getting the pension and then handing their wealth on to the heirs.
    Anonymous
    1st Dec 2015
    3:52pm
    Spot on with that Bonny these people with Million Dollar plus houses and who get the pension are know better than what we call bludgers.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    4:25pm
    Bonny, he is not looking at it. The Productivity Commission handed him a report with the recommendation. Morrison has said he will not consider it. I wish he would!
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    4:52pm
    I tried to bring it back up but they want me to pay for it to read it again.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:56pm
    Old news Bonny. Even Morrison with his cock sure demeanour would be afraid to try that one on because it would affect the rich (can't have that) and reporters, both of whom would tear Morrison to pieces.
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    5:08pm
    The sooner the better as people shouldn't be allowed to live in expensive houses and get the pension.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:10pm
    What do you define as "expensive". Morrison seems to be of the opinion that $800 000 is expensive.
    Anonymous
    2nd Dec 2015
    8:14am
    The Communists took people's land and homes off them after a lifetime of work. And some folk here support changing our previously more decent system to match the Communist system. Don't let anyone retain the proceeds of their hard work and frugal living unless they are very rich, in which case give them bucket-loads of concessions and subsidies paid for by the battlers. Screw the workers and the lower middle class. They exist only to feed the rich. Great Commo logic! Well done, Bonny and Frank.
    Rae
    2nd Dec 2015
    8:42am
    Yes Bonny these people should be living in hoochies on the pavements and in beat up cars outside the supermarkets like they do in most neo liberal capitalist countries. Then again they could build shanty towns on the ridgelines like they do in Lima or Joberg.

    And seeing we have had 4 decades of rampant property inflation all houses are expensive now.

    But don't worry thousands will be forced out by increasing rates and fixed costs and falling incomes.

    The great destruction of the middle class is going very well indeed.
    The elite never did mean that class to exist it was an aberration caused by regulation from WW11 which has been nicely undone now.
    LiveItUp
    2nd Dec 2015
    11:26am
    People can stay in their expensive houses and still get the pension but it should be deducted form their estate when they die. Why should they be allowed to access the public purse and then just pass assets they should have used onto their heirs? In most cases it is only a windfall for their heirs and they really don't need it anyway. I wouldn't be surprised that it used for expensive overseas trips etc that is of no benefit to our country.
    Adrianus
    2nd Dec 2015
    11:48am
    Rainey, what's all this talk about communism? I'm a free market person. I voted for Labor about twice from memory, but I was very young. I believe in welfare. For the those who need it though, not for the wealthy or the fraudsters. Does that make me a communist?
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    11:24am
    Frank, the Communist mantra is to destroy the middle class and remove rewards for effort. There are the rich, and there is everyone else. And that's the way Australia is going. Take it all away from those who struggled all their life to acquire a bit, and give pathetic ''welfare'' handouts to those who have nothing to ease the conscience, but make sure the rich get richer by the day.
    ozzie
    1st Dec 2015
    3:33pm
    It possibly comes as no surprise that some 80 Federal Members of Parliament are not re contesting their Seats at the next election……why??? Very simple…..their Superannuation Scheme will alter and be a little less favorable & flexible than it is now!! They want to secure their Gold Plated indexed for life Super & perks before the changes……they’ll be living high on the hog on the Public Purse for the rest of “their natural’s”…….”Beam Me Up Scottie”…….like to elucidate on your “final solution” for Pension outlays for we humble servants??!!
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    4:57pm
    I was unaware of that. Are you sure? Sounds like a lot of rats jumping off the Titanic at the same time. Something like a quarter of all MPs.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    6:35pm
    An opportunity mick?
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:11pm
    So when did you jump Frank?
    Tassie
    1st Dec 2015
    3:40pm
    I say that there are many on the aged pension whom didn't work all their lives and pay taxes...they are just like the people who are on the dole most of their lives.,it just transfers over to the aged pension when they get older...maybe this needs looking at in a huge way and those multi billion dollar companies who hardly pay taxes..do something..govt... act..don't just talk about it...We worked very hard all our working lives and paid dearly into one superannuation fund...and we paid tax on it before it went in..so it's tax free now...then...we own our own home, we have no debt at all..so the super pension we receive and a small make up from the govt does us very well indeed..if those people who worked hard all their lives would probably own their own home anyway...I know someone who is on the aged pension and has to pay rent, and they tell us that they wished they had bought a house when they were younger....my 2 bobs worth...
    Peterrj
    3rd Dec 2015
    2:17am
    Tassie, you,have thrown in your 'two bobs' worth and these ideas need to see further explored. If you have a sense of humour, which I hope,you have, then Google 'Women: Know Your Limits! Harry Enfield - BBC comedy', you might get a kick out of it???
    Richo
    1st Dec 2015
    4:45pm
    Dear Editor,
    I am absolutely gobsmacked at Mr Morrison's comments! Having just lodged my 53rd personal Tax Return and I am still working, I fail to see how a pension would not be entitlement when I have paid 38% of my wages to the Australian Government for nearly 54 years. Is he trying to break our faith in fare Aussie Governance?
    Richo
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    5:05pm
    Life wasn't meant to be fair. It's all about winners, losers and wiping your feet on whoever you can. The good of the country and being fair minded seem to be of little consequence. The cretins in Canberra are soulless people for the most part who are guns for hire rather than servants of the nation. Betrayal of the nation has reached epidemic proportions with no end in sight.
    Circum
    1st Dec 2015
    4:55pm
    Morrison knows its not welfare.Its just political speak to get the anti welfare crowd onside.I believe it would far more cost effective to pay every nationalised australian the pension and save mega millions in public service administration.No one in the government seems to be seriously looking at reform.Its all just about finding an easy target to suck more money from.The attractiveness of superannuation is rapidly decreasing except from the very rich (very subjective term) who use it to save tax.Current talk about capping super contributions is missing the point and stupid in that why restrict a person from saving as much as they want.Its the tax treatment not the saving which is the issue.On a more general note if the government wants to change the system from government funded to retiree funded,then they should do it honestly,methodically and have changes phased in over a reasonable time frame (say 20 years).And then LEAVE THE SYSTEM ALONE for 20 years.Its not rocket science
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    5:08pm
    What you refer to is precisely how abusers operate. Blame the victim.
    In politics we (supposedly) have a media so that average Australians can be heard. But what we have in practice is a media owned monopoly by the likes of Rupert Murdoch and other high flyers...doing the business for the big end of town. Tells a story.
    To easy
    1st Dec 2015
    5:30pm
    Where is the incentive to save? I worked shifts on weekends and public holidays for 23 years. Great nest egg. For what? Now I can't get the taxes that I've paid, but bludgers who never worked will get.
    Peterrj
    1st Dec 2015
    5:42pm
    Too Easy, I get where you are coming from ... You are being financially screwed by the Govt for 'doing the right thing'. But I don't class all on welfare or the aged pension as bludgers. That type of inflammatory language is not helping any of us understand the issues!
    Peterrj
    1st Dec 2015
    5:37pm
    The Aged Pension is NOT a right as it is not a natural nor fundamental right as it changes like the wind with legislative amendments!

    The Aged Pension is NOT an entitlement as it is NOT something earned!!!

    Assume that I am of pensionable age, have lived in Australia since birth, have an income of $100,000 and assets not including my house over $1.2M. Not withstanding, in this hypothetical case study, that I have worked my entire life and have paid my due taxes who in their right mind would support the view that I right to be entitled to be paid the Aged Pension???

    So the Aged Pension is neither a right nor an entitlement!

    And the fact that a person has work hard and paid taxes all their working life is a totally non issue to whether or not they receive the Aged Pension.

    However, I will concede that if a person reaches pensionable age, has limited income and limited assets then they have a right to be entitled to the Aged Pension!!!

    These 'rights' and 'entitlements' are conditional 'rights' and 'entitlements'!!!! Doing nothing except aging and having nothing or spending everything would be enough to earn you the right to be entitled to be paid the Aged Pension!!!!

    So can we just drop the sob stories of, 'I work hard and paid taxes therefore I have a right and an entitlement be paid the Aged Pension'.

    I suspect you won't!
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    6:34pm
    I agree.
    Circum
    1st Dec 2015
    7:15pm
    Of course you should be entitled to a pension.I cant think of a reason why you shouldnt.Your salary is irrelevant,your savings dont put you in the rich class although I agree the term rich is subjective but possibly not even relevant.If your house was worth say 10 million then one could argue you dont need the pension.But throwing you a few shekels as a pension is not unreasonable as you have paid tax.

    The point is that we trust the government to tell the truth and guide us in determining what we should do to make life more comfortable.Instead we got promises that our superannuation was safe and the age pension was safe.Yes there were comments about more baby boomers in future putting pressure on resources.Obviously the government (both) have no idea how to fix the issue other than to swing an axe to reduce the number of pension claimants.
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    9:18pm
    Where have you been all these years. I was told when I first got a job that there would not be any pension when I retired at 60. Now well past 60 and still no pension for me. Good thing I heeded those words.

    Do you really expect the government promises to look after you? There are too many baby boomers today for the resources available. Hence the reason why the government is axing pensions for those who may be entitled but don't need them.

    I've had numerous occasions in the last couple of weeks to witness the stupidity of people who do things without thinking about the consequences just because others are doing the same. On one occasion people where queuing in the hot sun and remained there even after some of them collapsed with heat stroke. Ambulances were treating people while others remained in the queue in the hot sun. If I hadn't seen it for myself I just would not have believed it.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    10:22pm
    Bonny I think you have stated the real problem and the reason why so many people are finding this concept difficult to deal with.
    Labor has encouraged anyone who would listen that Labor will look after them. They urge people to be dependent on the government. People who want to believe that will follow.
    However in the cold hard light of day we find those who foster this blind following are found to be hopeless providers and so the crash to reality is as harsh as the withdrawal of parental love.
    How many posters on this thread have said they didn't do anything for themselves because they believed the government would look after them?
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:12pm
    Don't worry Frank. This government will "fix" average Australians. Put them in their place. Slaves they are are and slaves they will be. Right?
    LiveItUp
    2nd Dec 2015
    11:47am
    People need to stop following the crowd and thinking about how things effect them and do something about it. Queue if you like but don't risk your health doing so. There is a big difference between saving and investing money. You save money in a bank whereas you invest in a bank. The crowd is more often wrong than right so think rather than just follow them. I now know why I rock the boat. I just don't take anything for granted and question the rules as well.
    Adrianus
    2nd Dec 2015
    11:58am
    There should be more like you who "rock the boat" That is how people learn. Humans are creatures of habit though and obviously find it difficult to be positive about their future in the same way they did in their youth. My advice to them is that any fool can picture the past but it takes a little more effort to see the future. Many just cant understand that the future is how they saw it yesterday. In my perfect world everyone would reach their potential.
    MICK
    2nd Dec 2015
    3:39pm
    Well you'd better resign from trolling for the Liberal Party Frank. Both sides of politics have caused much pain in the past quarter of a century but the current government has been in 'destroy' mode with almost every policy it touches. When a defeated government leaves the new government should build on the government it defeated. This government had WOUND BACK the clock and destroyed many a good policy and butchered others. All that it has achieved is to be despised by more people than even it can imagine as well as dragging this country into the gutter financially as well as with the fabric of our culture, although in regard to immigration policy I level the same accusation at Labor who permitted itself to be seduced by the toxic Greens to gain power.
    VOTE FOR A GOOD INDEPENDENT or enjoy more of the same. It is the choice of voters....who will get their just desserts either way.
    But you Frank are to be pitied amongst all men.
    Trevine
    1st Dec 2015
    5:48pm
    You have to get kicked out of parliament. Why do ministers take their super straight away. Why don't you have yo wait like us till we turn 65 years
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:13pm
    Because they are 'special'. And they are dishonest.
    ace
    1st Dec 2015
    5:53pm
    I am tired of this arrogant Bully boy ,he treated us with contempt when he was responsible for boats ,now he wants to tell us the money we paid in taxes over our working life means nothing ! I wish he was in my electoral area ! I wish we could affect his pension he considers "HIS RIGHT"
    Sir
    1st Dec 2015
    5:58pm
    I'm sorry Drew, you're wrong. When the age pension was introduced at the start of the last century, it was expeced that those who made it to 65, would not be recipients for very long at all. Today, with significantly increased life expectancy and a means test, the age pension is not available to all Austrlians. It may have been considered by our parents and grandparents as an entitlement for paying taxes, however, it wasn't then, and certainly isn't now. It is only available to those who, for various reasons, have not managed to accumulate sufficient savings during their working life, to look after themselves in retirement. In other words, it is a welfare safety net.
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    6:12pm
    I agree.
    Adrianus
    2nd Dec 2015
    10:34am
    Hawke did a good thing for those who couldn't help themselves by getting compulsory super started. But then he got greedy and introduced a few taxes on it thinking that the employee wouldn't suffer because the employer was making the contributions. Those same taxes are now seen by members as inequality and the way to fix the problem is to introduce more taxes.
    seadog
    1st Dec 2015
    6:00pm
    Interesting the way some of you pass comments about entitlements etc.
    Just for some of you to think about.
    I have worked all my life as well. Have paid taxes and at times worked two and three jobs, did not take holidays overseas or interstate but looked after my family and built up funds for retirement. But some people I know same age as me had all the holidays, drink and partied well, smoked and had a few bets as well and lived on the never never BUT did not save like I have now you are saying that because they did all this then they should get a pension and not me. To hell with that I think that I am just as entitled as them because it is NOT welfare. We should be like other countries and pay the basic wage as a pension to all retirees who wish to claim it. I for one would not claim it until I had to but it does gall me to think that most of you believe that those who did not save should be the only ones to get eligible fora pension. I just think that we need to tell ALL politicians this.
    retroy
    1st Dec 2015
    6:31pm
    Agree completely seadog.
    I too have worked hard and been frugal so that we can now enjoy a comfortable retirement with no help from the government.
    It galls me that layabouts can just get a pension financed by the high taxes I paid at the latter end of my working life.
    Where is the fairness in that?
    retroy
    1st Dec 2015
    6:17pm
    Why don't the media ask what the pollies are going to do to their ridiculous super.
    If they brought their own super into line with accepted norms, they would have some credibility when they talk of cutting off some people and taxing others.
    Where is the fearless press?
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    6:27pm
    It appears we have 3 distinct classes of retirees.

    Those on the full pension with little other assets.

    Those who are completely independent.

    Those who with assets that are just low enough to qualify them for the pension.

    The loudest being the last group by far. Sorry folks but those of us not in this group are sick of hearing about how hard you worked and how much tax you paid etc. If that was the case why aren't you independently retired? How do you think most of the independently retired group feel? Most of whom would have worked just as hard and paid considerably more tax over the years. Remember these people get next to nothing from the government yet seem to be happy with their lot.

    I guess I worry for the future of our kids and grandkids with our ever growing government debt and the difficulties most have just getting into a house of their own. I don't think this is fair when we have people getting welfare because they are entitled and then assets they should have used instead left behind after their death. This is not right.
    retroy
    1st Dec 2015
    6:37pm
    If some one chooses to leave some assets to their children that is their right, and why should people like you say that they should spend it all and not get a pension.
    Your comments are like so many on this site motivated by envy.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    6:40pm
    Well said Bonny!
    Let's remember, 80% of pensioners are home owners. This is indeed the lucky country.
    LiveItUp
    1st Dec 2015
    8:07pm
    No it's not their right. Why should my kids get what's left after I have funded my own retirement while others have their retirement funded by the government and leave the lot to their kids? That is not envy but lack of fairness.

    That's why the asset test needs to tightened even further that what has been done in 2017. Another reason why the house has also to be included in the assets test.

    Too much money is tied up in pensioner's homes that is not being used.
    Adrianus
    1st Dec 2015
    10:27pm
    Yes there is an argument for inequality to be put by the self funded retirees to have the home assessed.
    A pensioner could own a $10m mansion and be getting a full pension. Surely that's not fair and equal?
    Gandi
    1st Dec 2015
    10:43pm
    Bonny your categories are too simplistic. We all started off with very little but had to make choices and the only constant was we all paid taxes. Yes there are people in very expensive homes and there should be a value of a home not included in an assets test and above that figure it should . We need to be fair to all and not just penalise those that have saved, made sensible choices and sacrifices.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:15pm
    So how many people own $10 million homes Frank? I know some pretty influential people but none have a home worth even anywhere near that.
    Typical comment from a government troll!
    Anonymous
    2nd Dec 2015
    8:19am
    So, Bonny, you say that if someone drinks, gambles and has expensive holidays, they are entitled to taxpayer support, but if they choose to put their money aside to benefit their offspring or to have more in later life, they are not? Sounds pretty much like Communist logic to me! Let's not have any kind of freedom of choice! Can't allow working people to benefit from their endeavor or to choose how to live. Must force them all into the mold you design and make them conform to your standards.
    Rae
    2nd Dec 2015
    8:56am
    Give the kids the money five years out from pension age. Sell the house, buy bullion
    Adrianus
    2nd Dec 2015
    9:37am
    mick, I would imagine as many who have $10m in their super fund?
    LiveItUp
    2nd Dec 2015
    10:48am
    OK maybe I should buy that $10 million dollar house I have my eye on and then I'll get the pension. Then I'll tell the kids it will be theirs one day so they better pay the maintenance while I use my pension for the finer things in life like holidays, drinking and gambling. Maybe that's worth a bit more thought.

    Will you join me? No need for a $10 million super fund as I've got the kids instead.

    That just illustrates how silly our pension welfare system has become.
    MICK
    2nd Dec 2015
    4:38pm
    You're in gah gah land again Frank. $10 million is reserved for those who have had their snouts in the feeding trough during their lifetimes. Not average citizens who have done well.
    ice-cold
    1st Dec 2015
    6:30pm
    I have worked & payed Taxes since I was 10yr Old, I Retired at 60yr old(forcibly) My SUPER ran out after 15yrs,I had to sell a House that I had Invested in for that purpose,I'm on a small age-pension & making Ends meet, I think I deserve my little Hand-Out...Up yours Scott !!
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:16pm
    Wait long enough and this government will be issuing tents for people like you. God help us if the voting public are stupid enough to vote them back!
    auzie3136
    1st Dec 2015
    8:36pm
    TOM TANK. Your are spot on I remember that happening when Fraser transferred millions into consolidated revenue I also remember that it used to be marked on your payslip that money had been taken out towards your pension. It was marked on your payslip then it was mysteriously omitted after Fraser did the transfer into consolidated revenue. They hoped that people would not remember this theft.I think I remember them saying there was too much money in the fund when they did this.I also remember when I worked at Heidelberg Repat that they also cut the rise that I was surposed to receive at the same time so that Commonwealth workers were shortchanged. Now that you do not get payslips and wages are paid into the bank it is hard to check on things.
    Hank
    1st Dec 2015
    9:25pm
    To use Scott Morrison speak. It is not those pensioners who have worked hard and paid taxes or their lives who are entitled to whatever minimal payment Centrelink "hands out" but those politicians with their pensions, allowances and other "entitlements"who suck on the taxpayers through.
    Cop this Malcolm and Scott
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:17pm
    Rules for those in charge and DIFFERENT rules for everybody else. "Let them eat cake"!
    Dot
    1st Dec 2015
    9:36pm
    Australia's in debt due to the massive cost of Politicians wages and travels and of course refugees, foreign aid and we the innocent who have worked all our lives, paid taxes and went without just to cover the cost of living are once again going to be hit. I can see the time when we reach a certain age our houses and bank books will be confiscated by the government
    gadsby
    1st Dec 2015
    9:42pm
    when i started work 50 years ago,aged 15 ,the government of the day told me ,pay your tax and we will look after you in retirement,some how that seems to have got lost along the way.
    Little did we know,way back then ,that the politicians of today would enter politics for one reason only,to line there own pockets,Joe Hockey is a perfect example .and i was a liberal voter.
    All i see now is governments of both colour ,just wasting money ,then trying to make it back from the people who can least afford it,to make thier botom line look good ,hence get re elected,
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:18pm
    They lied. This is what politicians are all about.
    Adrianus
    3rd Dec 2015
    9:11am
    Great Scott, gadsby! If only we were to know that it's the pensioners with all the money who are going to give the economy the fillip.
    Not Senile Yet!
    1st Dec 2015
    9:52pm
    For all those uninformed on this site!!!!!
    The Pension was NEVER WELFARE......It was legislated as a reward for working Hard...paying your taxes.....obeying the Laws of OUR Society....and in general BEING A GOOD CITIZEN!!!!!!
    It originally had it's own Department ....that's right!.....separate from Welfare!!!!!!
    Welfare was the disability benefit, single mother's Benefits, and the Unemployment Benefits!!!!
    None of the above were considered Pensions nor were they labelled Pensions because they were Welfare!!!!!
    The Government combined all of the above and named it Human Services Department for Administrative Cost Savings and downsized all the Staff and Offices accordingly.....I remember this well.....lots of Public Servants were Laid Off!!!!
    Whilst there were efficiencies to be achieved....rightly so....they then started calling the Disability Benefit a Pension......which it was NOT!!!! It was a Welfare Payment for those unable to work for Health Reasons beyond THEIR Control!!!!
    The Aged Pension is enshrined in our Culture Of Looking After the aged who worked Hard and Paid their taxes to build the Infrastructure we NOW Have and Enjoy!!!!!
    It is Uniquely Australian and used to be the benchmark for others!
    Britain updated their Pensions based on what we achieved to include Health Care Cards and Medical Relief for Pensioners based on our Model!!!!
    Over the last 25 years the Honourable (HA HA HA) Members of Parliament have slowly and by stealth copied America's Welfare Policies.....that being every man/women for themselves.....ie Greed Rules!
    This was done through Privatisation of everything....Medicare and Hospitals are next on the agenda.
    In short their taxes have increased with the Population & GST yet their expenditure has decreased along with their Federal Funding Slashes!!!!
    The only area where Funding has increased is Defence Contracts to the Army Navy & Air Force by American Technology and in Off Shore Detention Centres.....oddly also run by American Corporate Contract Companies!!!!
    This means our tax dollar is being spent off shore as well!!!!
    Are all of you on this site aware of this??????
    Did you know that American Corporates Run by Contracts the majority of our Prisons????
    Are you aware that your tax Dollar pays $100 per day and more per prisoner to Contractors.....and that amaounts to Privatisation of our Prisons????
    Our honorary Mp's can justify $100 a day to house and feed people who Break the Law and pay little or no tax YET......our Pensioners do not deserve the equivalent after 40-45 years of Service to Society......really?????
    Are you aware that the Fraser Government RAPED our retirement fund during a Recession in the name of funding infrastructure & jobs
    with the promise of repayment but then reneged on his promise????
    By the way.....the only way he could access the Retirement Capital that was put aside for the Baby Boomers was to get the Labor arty to agree.....Yes the Opposition had to agree before access could be allowed!!!!
    You see when it was enacted...no one for saw that two corrupt parties ......that disagreed on everything would ever agree on anything!!!!
    And guess what magically appeared......this was the bribe.....A Brand New Parliament House in Canberra....WOW!!!!
    Our Mp's Can't Balance the Budget.....because they are the one with the Entitlement Mentality.......it is why they are calling all the Aged Pensioners that.....to take the spotlight off themselves!!!!!
    All Honourable Mp's are NO LONGER Honourable at all...but merely Party Puppets carrying out the Party Policy.....because the Party has bought them......lock stock & Barrel!!!!
    Our Very Fabric of who we are and what we believe in is being challenged by these Corrupt Parties....as has happened in America!
    They want Free Enterprise without Government legislating accountability to the people.......this can only bring more Corruption!
    By the Way......Are We Australians or not???
    If the Diggers were still alive....they would fight this change of Culture with everything they have!!!
    The American Ideals are NOT Australian Ideals!!!!
    Our Culture demands Pensions in retirement as a reward and no where in that legislation were there Asset Tests or limitations....they have been added over time to save the Governments from Budget Blowouts through cutting costs!!!!
    There is no other reason whatsoever...and it is nothing more than Right Wing Propaganda to sell the same to all the mugs who believe their garbage!!!!
    They are dismantling our Society piece by piece...act by act....to serve their ideals and NOT the ideals of the People!!!
    We are but 200 years old.....and have achieved Major Infrastructure both Public and Private by marrying Capitalist Venture to Government Legislation to prevent Corruption and it has worked!!!!
    To dismantle what worked only suits the Wealthy that are greedy for Profit and less responsibility to the Country or it's population!!!
    If labor (which is in bed with the Liberals) truly wanted to get re-elected...all they need to do is....
    Promise to repeal all attacks on the pensions.....return the Retirement age to 65 and guarantee a Pension without Asset testing......but of course their Challenge is simple....how do they fund it?????
    Simple answer...10% Mandatory Tax on all Corporations in Australia in return for their licence to operate within OZ through the ATO's issue of a Company ABN. No 10% paid...NO ABN!!!!!
    But are they up for the Challenge????
    For that matter.....if the Libs did first.....there would be a Landslide
    Vote in their favour!!!!
    Peterrj
    2nd Dec 2015
    1:54am
    Not Senile Yet: The Diggers fought Johnny Turk ... What makes you think that they would fight our current 'culture'??? They blindly followed the then culture of supporting mother England to go off to war. I don't call myself a digger but I have had military experience and the one thing the Army taught me was obedience, unquestioning obedience! The tradition of the Australain Military Forces is to obey superiors and not carry out civil disorder amongst the ranks. I have three worthless Military Medals to remind me how stupid I was! Not Senile Yet, I'm not too sure of that!
    auzie3136
    2nd Dec 2015
    4:23am
    Your right on every point Not senile yet. I remember when I started to pay for my Super I worked shift work and hardly had any social life because in order to pay for my super I worked many double shifts sometimes worked 7 days in a row and public holidays like Christmas etc,because of the low wages as without that at the time I could not otherwise afford to pay for super.
    Peterrj
    2nd Dec 2015
    11:19am
    auzie3136 Aye???? Please explain, Why did you have to work to 'pay' for your Super??? Or did you mean that you worked hard to 'voluntary save money' to build up your Super Fund???'
    Adrianus
    2nd Dec 2015
    11:34am
    I think I understand. auzie3136 committed himself to high super contributions. He sacrificed social activities and time off. Working hard like a squirrel in the hope that one day he would be rich. But now that has all come to nothing with the Rudd/Gillard experiment.
    I feel much the same way, hence my empathy, but we need to accept the responsibility ourselves. That is very difficult to do when as an individual you feel you have done the right thing.
    Peterrj
    3rd Dec 2015
    2:01am
    Frank, yes, that's what I was thinking about auzie3136, having 'done the right thing' to prepare for his retirement he now feels cheated???? I remember my first Retirement Seminar, I went to the meeting feeling a bit smug as I had a whole $300,000 cash saved in Super. The meeting told of the benefits of Super etc and explained that the industry standard was to draw down your Super as a pension payment at 5%. They then went on to talk about the full Aged Pension for a couple being about $32,000. Something was not sitting right and I did the maths, 5% of $300,000 was $30,000 yet if I did not save a cent in Super then I would be paid more than from my Super fund???? I was about that point I could not understand why I had bothered to save cash in Super??? I get over $30,000 free so what's the point re saving for your own retirement??? Then the Financial Global crash came along .... I lost a 'bit' of that Super savings. Hey, I am not complaining as most who had money in Super lost a B lot of capital!!!! Super works re employer Contributions. Salary Sacrifice is risky and contributing post tax dollars is, perhaps, a bit foolish. For the average punter, Super is Fools Gold, it's a con trick to make you save at the expense of missing out on free Govt welfare in the form of the Aged Pension.

    People with saved cash in Super are not in need and don't need to be paid the Aged Pension ... because they saved their money and did not spend it. But, those without cash in Super are in need and are 'entitled' to be paid the Aged Pension. Apart from these concepts being expressed in dreadfully broad terms ... do you get the point re Superannuation???

    No, I m not advocating having no Super, but there is a point where having more in Super is 'non productive'!!! Those with a fat Super balance are about to get plucked to provide for the community Christmas dinner!!! (I can't see the print real well so I just hope that the spell check hasn't over ridden any of my words?)
    Adrianus
    5th Dec 2015
    4:21pm
    Peter, I understand your point perfectly and I think you're right. Society functions better when the sky is the limit on achievement of any kind. Each of us will at some point in our youth make a judgement call for the long term. I have advised my children to start wealth creation early and do not rely on dad when I stop working. :) They did that so it's not hard on them. They do have high paying jobs so that made their choices easy. They are not thinking about getting the balance right so as not to surpass a point where welfare cuts out. However, for people our age it is quite different. I don't have a problem personally, because I always thought of the aged pension as a safety net. I guess I have passed on this belief to my children. I always wanted them to be unrestricted in every way. It shows in their chosen professions.
    A shopkeeper always finds it easier to have a sale rather than a price increase.
    I've heard some posters complaining because they have too much money. I have never seen that as a problem. I do recall meeting a man and did he have a bee in his bonnet. He had worked at the same job all his life and 1 week before retirement won $500,000 in a lottery. It was a big concern for him and as he explained "I had everything sorted out and this had to happen." To which I replied, why the hell did you buy a ticket???!!! ha ha ha
    If you get my point? :)
    Not Senile Yet!
    1st Dec 2015
    10:02pm
    By the Way...Corruption only happens when greedy humans take little or no responsibility for their actions in acquiring wealth...be it by wages or profit!!!
    It is unique to humans...not Corporations or Governments...but rather a collection of people who are willing to corrupt legislation designed to protect the citizens from bullying, inequity, discrimination by any means and worst of all through stealth!!!
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:19pm
    Corruption happens when good people do nothing. Does that sound like average Australians?
    Adrianus
    3rd Dec 2015
    9:01am
    Or when good people complain about the lousy $80m cost of doing something.
    Gandi
    1st Dec 2015
    10:14pm
    The pension is an entitlement . I have paid taxes, gone without to provide for a comfortable lifestyle while others have not been careful and the State takes care of them. Yes there are problems with the system, but how have some people achieved huge super funds when the ordinary person is limited to a maximum of $25000 a year in salary sacrifice. Deal with those loopholes Morrison that is where the inequalities lie. Governments squander public money and then look for the easy targets.
    MICK
    1st Dec 2015
    11:21pm
    The loopholes you talk about have been put their FOR THE RICH TO EXPLOIT. It was no accident. If it were they would have been fixed a long long time ago.
    Old Man
    1st Dec 2015
    10:40pm
    Wow, now we attack politicians for their language. I receive a part age pension and it comes out of the big bucket traditionally known as "Welfare". It has been called that forever. An alternative could be that someone drawing a full age pension will be called an Entitled Person, I will be called a Part Entitled Person, self-funded retirees getting a Health Card will be called a Non-Supportive Entitled Person. Newstart people won't receive the Dole but will be known as Temporarily Misplaced Future Employees. DSP recipients will be called Temporarily Unwell Periodic Review People and their carers will still be considered as good people.

    Now to do this and keep the pedantic do-gooders happy there will obviously be major changes. There will no longer be Welfare payments but each group will have an amount set aside in a separate Government Department with a suitable name. Naturally, there will be a Minister and Cabinet Secretary for each new department as well as a Department Head and a cadre of well trained public servants.
    bartpcb
    2nd Dec 2015
    12:58am
    All to many people have succumbed to Morrison's view of the Age Pension. The man is a hypocrite and a fool. He knows all to well the history of the Aged Pension and it is clearly NOT WELFARE. This type of rhetoric is all to standard of the right wing Liberals and they should, but never will be, ashamed of themselves.
    PIXAPD
    2nd Dec 2015
    1:02am
    CORRECT it is NOT 'welfare'
    LiveItUp
    2nd Dec 2015
    10:57am
    Aged pension is welfare as it's only available to some where as entitlements are available to all. The sooner it is reclassified as welfare the better.
    Adrianus
    3rd Dec 2015
    10:01am
    Bonny, I think it is in transition to becoming welfare, because some millionaires are still receiving it.
    PIXAPD
    2nd Dec 2015
    1:01am
    That would include the end of Politicians Govt funded pensions TOO?...ha ha ha..I just made a JOKE.. What Morrison really means is that the Govt will stop the aged pension and then syphon off that money for themselves
    Peterrj
    2nd Dec 2015
    1:39am
    Eligibility for the Aged Pension does NOT depend upon a person's employment record and how much tax they have paid. The rates of payment are means tested! (Perhaps emphasis on the word 'mean'!)

    Sorry to retell you, but prior hard work and having paid taxes does NOT give you a right nor entitle you to be paid the Aged Pension .... you are living in another world to claim otherwise!

    Having read most of the comments above makes me believe that YLC exists in Bizarro World!
    Anonymous
    2nd Dec 2015
    2:01am
    No, paying taxes doesn't entitle you to an aged pension. But the fact that it IS an entitlement was enshrined in legislation years ago. It's an entitlement earned by contributing to society - in any form, not just through taxpaying - and afforded equally to the minority who could not contribute simply because we are human, not animal, and humans are supposed to be capable of empathy, compassion, and human decency. They are not supposed to degrade and defile those less fortunate than themselves. They are not supposed to live by the rule of the jungle - survival of the fittest.

    Seems we've ceased to be human though. How sad! I'd say we have sunk to the level of animals, but actually we've sunk far lower. The dishonesty and corruption and greed in our society does not exist among any other species.

    Make no mistake. There is just ONE reason why people are being denied their ENTITLEMENT in retirement, and that's that the earnings of the lifters are being stolen to give to the overfed leaners whose greed knows no bounds. The cost of the aged pension for all pales into insignificance next to the cost of superannuation concessions to the rich and corporate tax evasion and unfair subsidies and handouts. We CAN afford to pay our dues to retirees, but that would mean reducing the wealth of the richest 20% a little. Can't have that, can we?
    Flindersbar
    2nd Dec 2015
    4:29am
    I've never seen such disrespect for those who give so much of their time for their country and the sterling service they provide, yes Sterling or AUD....does it matter?
    Jannie
    2nd Dec 2015
    3:39pm
    HAVE YOU EVER LISTENED OR WATCHED OUR POLLIES IN WORK MODE IN PARLIAMENT? IF NOT DO IT. THEY ARE LIKE SCHOOL CHILDREN, YOU STATED FLINDERSBAR THAT YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN SUCH DISREPECT, WELL MY FRIEND THERE IS A REASON WHY THAT IS SO. THEY SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN SUCH LARGE PAYOUTS AND SUPER WHEN THEY RETIRE, THEY SHOULD BE TREATED THE SAME WAY AS WE ARE. TALK ABOUT A CORRUPT SYSTEM WELL WE HAVE IT.
    MICK
    2nd Dec 2015
    4:39pm
    It does!
    Chris B T
    2nd Dec 2015
    9:07am
    There is another Post about "Here are the world’s best hotels"
    How would Morrison comment on someone exhausting all there savings/super on a Lavish Lifestyle for a while.
    Then go on full age pension, the only difference is our politicans have this and more.
    Hard working pollies have assitants to do research and script writing, there just the Mouth That Repeats The Crap Without Any Thought.
    MICK
    2nd Dec 2015
    4:40pm
    The media needs to put it back on our distasteful leaders. They don't.
    mangomick
    2nd Dec 2015
    10:00am
    Unfortunately Politicians only know how to play politics. it's all a numbers game. They realise that there may be more votes to be won through kicking the pensioners and blaming them for all Gen XYZs and the Governments own over spending problems.
    Bloody funny how retirees have to support them selves, while Governments through their Federal Reserve monetary policy, keep interest rates artificially low. They want everyone to be able to swim and they are giving you lead boots just to make you kick harder.
    LiveItUp
    2nd Dec 2015
    10:54am
    As a retiree I love low interest rates. I can borrow money cheaply and then invest in for a better return. If other retirees would invest outside those very risky term deposits then they too would reap the benefits. I don't invest in term deposits as they rarely show even a small return after inflation and taxes. That to me is very risky in that you are losing money nearly every year.
    MICK
    2nd Dec 2015
    4:41pm
    Spot on mango.

    Bonny: you must be a real dumb blonde. Sorry but your posts say it all.
    LiveItUp
    2nd Dec 2015
    6:56pm
    Nay not blonde but dumb in the sense I just can't understand why people are not doing what I am doing. Saves working for a living or relying upon government handouts.
    mangomick
    2nd Dec 2015
    7:24pm
    Unfortunately Bonny many retirees had the same view as yourself and with the help of "professional financial advisors" took their money out of term deposits and invested in ,so called, better returns. Go and tell all of those Storm financial customers how smart they were for taking their money out of a secured interest paying term deposits and then placing their money in something they were advised would give better returns.
    LiveItUp
    2nd Dec 2015
    7:55pm
    I actually had a fellow come and tell me I should invest in Storm Financial. So I had a good look at it and told the person who told me they had invested in it that it was too risky for me. They laughed at me at the time but lost nearly everything when it collapsed. The writing was on the wall for anyone that looked beyond the hype and greed with Storm financial. I have no sympathy for anyone that invested in Storm as it was a case of it's too good to true. I tried to warm many people about Storm and similar products but everyone thought I was mad at the time. Anyone with an ounce of sense would not have invested in these products and if they did it to me was nothing but pure greed. They have only themselves to blame not their financial advisors.
    Adrianus
    2nd Dec 2015
    8:09pm
    Bonny you must be a redhead!
    LiveItUp
    2nd Dec 2015
    8:38pm
    Nope just a nice white haired old lady. I refuse to use that blue rinse.
    mangomick
    2nd Dec 2015
    8:40pm
    As I said, most retirees just want a stable fair return on their money. They aren't greedy nor do they want the hassle and trauma of worrying whether markets are going to collapse overnight. Try justifying your argument to anyone who had just invested heavily in the All ords in 2007 when it was around 6500. Go and convince them they are foolish not to be in the markets at this time of their life. That's nearly 9 years ago and the market is still a long way from where it was. Fantastic return for anyone who would have taken your advise back then.
    Adrianus
    2nd Dec 2015
    9:00pm
    Bonny I was just having a shot at mick. :)
    Mango, do you think Kevin Rudd was aware of what retirees wanted when he upped the bank guarantee and caused a run on mortgage income trusts? All because Mrs Henry was worried about her savings. Rudd caused a run on funds and almost set us on a path for a major problem. Most income trusts called a moratorium on redemptions and people could not get their funds for 3 years! That includes executors of estates.
    Yes you can pick a high point in the asx ords and a low point to prove a point but nobody but the ignorant would listen to that argument.
    LiveItUp
    2nd Dec 2015
    9:56pm
    A lot of organisations around here invested in a certain income trust. I mentioned at a meeting that I didn't think they were safe as I was borrowing money from the bank at a much lower interest rate than what they were receiving in interest. They looked at me like I was stupid.

    Next things we had funds frozen for school formals, social clubs had their funds frozen etc. I got a phone call from the local P and C treasurer asking what they could do so I went with her and we got enough out to pay for the school formal. Every social club I became involved in then seemed to have one of these frozen investments. All done for a couple of bob more in interest. I often wonder how many people in these organisations also chased the big interest of this particular income trust.

    Looking back it was like all the social clubs in the area just followed one another into this income trust by word of mouth.

    I currently don't have any borrowed money invested as I'm waiting to see if the market can break through resistance. A similar situation existed in 2007 but we haven't got a big bubble like we did back then.
    Adrianus
    3rd Dec 2015
    9:59am
    They obviously needed high income and saw the low risk in mortgages. Well who could blame them for that view? But I'm sure they didn't account for the Rudd factor. Turnbull should share some responsibility for urging him on. Turnbull should have known better. Let's remember that while he and Therese are wealthy it was luck that produced that enormous wealth. How was Therese to know that when she started her company it would be awarded a significant state government contract months later? Kevin didn't even know and he was Goss's right hand. So how would Kevin know that he would panic the masses when he increased the bank guarantee? The people liked him because he waved his hands around like Hitler and sounded like he was intelligent because we couldn't understand what he was saying. But he is not good with financial matters.
    Many people I talk to now can see the change coming and are looking at the com property sector. Banks are doing great deals on bills for now. The bubble has burst on com property and is showing signs of cycling up underpinned by the FTA's. Producing more leases, more buyers. I feel that when the RBA raises the cash rate it will start a run in a positive direction which will catch many by surprise. At that point don't be surprised if the ASX ignores its inverse correlation with the cost of M1 and rallies. That's it, I'm putting my crystal ball away.
    Mike
    2nd Dec 2015
    10:55am
    Hockey called disabled people rorters, but he himself rorted the politicians travel allowance by claiming the $288 p/n allowance and stayed in his own mansion in Canberra, and also had some of his cronies staying with him, each paying him $288 tax funded money. He called part pensioner homeowners wealthy, people who payed their taxes, worked hard ,scrimped and saved, for a comfortable retirement under then current law, only to have their retirement plans smashed by Hockey. Yet those who drank and smoked and played the pokies and generally had a good time are now being rewarded. This includes all the polititions like Bronwyn Bishop who just splurged taxpayers money on herself. I take the pledge, I will NEVER vote for those Liberal BLudgers again.
    LiveItUp
    2nd Dec 2015
    11:06am
    Who will you vote for then? Both parties have the same policies except one spends more and creates a huge debt for future taxpayers.
    MICK
    2nd Dec 2015
    4:45pm
    Vote for an INDEPENDENT. That is the only way to change the your turn/my turn game where the public always loses. Think about it. And for the record the crap from pollies hanging onto power about INdependents not being able to cut it is just scare tactics. Ask Nick Xenophon if he can cut it. There are others. Any if these people were not obstructed by the bully boys of politics we would have much better government.
    Your call voters. Just stop whining if you just keep lurching from one deadbeat party to the next and back again and nothing changes. It won't.
    Anonymous
    6th Dec 2015
    2:56pm
    I'd far prefer Labor to Liberal at the moment, despite generally disliking Labor and finding Shorten very dislikable. As for spending, the Liberals have it all over Labor in that department, but they are cunning about it. Howard and Costello created huge ongoing obligations - by cutting taxes and giving benefits to the wealthiest 20% of Australians - and then Labor was blamed for spending when it had to meet those obligations.

    How easily some are misled to believe the lies the LNP tell!

    2nd Dec 2015
    1:53pm
    They should change the system, super is stupid its not doing what it's supposed to do and people are still retiring poor. Holland have a system where you pay more tax in your working life and then EVERYONE gets a pension and its not means tested and its a liveable amount so you don't have to eat snappy tom sandwiches for dinner too often
    Circum
    2nd Dec 2015
    4:32pm
    Totally agree Trood.Actually Hollands system is what Australias used to be.Unfortunately Australian politicians couldnt help but fiddle with the system resulting in what we have today..a slow death of the pension system.Congratulations to the Dutch for a simple effective system.
    Adrianus
    2nd Dec 2015
    5:31pm
    The Dutch pension system does not seem to be as generous as the Oz pension. To get a maximum benefit you need to have worked for 50 years in Holland and have tax credits. This entitles you to around $1500 per month. The cost of living appears to be significantly lower though? What happens if you have a disability?
    Adrianus
    2nd Dec 2015
    7:44pm
    I watched the myth busters team prove scientifically that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
    Jannie
    2nd Dec 2015
    3:29pm
    WOW 329 COMMENTS THIS SHOULD BE SENT TO THE IDIOTS IN CANBERRA.
    MICK
    2nd Dec 2015
    4:47pm
    Do you really think they care or that they are unaware? Cal blatant ignorance and denial! That is why voters need to stop voting Liberal and Labor and get smart: vote the bastards out!
    LiveItUp
    2nd Dec 2015
    6:58pm
    I've already sent my report to the government on what I think they should do,
    MICK
    2nd Dec 2015
    7:58pm
    I'm sure the tea lady will read it Bonny.
    LiveItUp
    2nd Dec 2015
    8:37pm
    I got a reply back from Mr Morrison so he may read it himself.
    Chris B T
    2nd Dec 2015
    9:31pm
    I bet he didn't, The assitants, assitant didn't so that leaves the work for the dole person, who asked what to do they All Laughed Out Loud.
    Send back a reply saying I'll Look Into It.
    LiveItUp
    2nd Dec 2015
    9:39pm
    Most pollies I write to send me back personal letters.
    Anonymous
    6th Dec 2015
    2:52pm
    Yep, they answer me to Bonny. Morrison answered me with a lot of misleading BS. He can't even do basic math, apparently!
    Peterrj
    2nd Dec 2015
    9:24pm
    Numerous YLC comments: 'The rich should pay higher taxes to make the tax system fair for all.'

    That's nice rhetoric but will it being the benefits promised?

    "Changes to the tax system have made Australia more attractive to foreign film makers, Minister Julie Bishop has said.

    The next Alien movie, due to be filmed in Sydney, is one of several upcoming blockbusters to be shot in Australia.

    Alien: Covenant, directed by Scott and starring Academy Award nominated actor Michael Fassbender, is likely to contribute $60 million to the New South Wales economy and employ more than 600 local cast and crew."

    Now apply your mantra 'tax the wealthy (more)' and see what that does to the economy???

    In this instance Govt tax breaks to the super rich movie industry will generate 600 new jobs and inject $60 million new revenue into the Aussie economy ... Just for one movie!

    Apply your mantra, 'higher taxes for the wealthy' and there goes the economy!!!!

    And no, I am not in the movie industry!!!
    gadsby
    2nd Dec 2015
    10:37pm
    they should make a movie about ,how can someone blow $30,000 of taxpayers money to get her and her boyfriend back to Cambera.
    These bishop girls seem to have a thing about flying.,bronwyn likes choppers ,Julie is more a fixed wing girl,the common denominator is ,they both like the taxpayer picking up the tab.
    Not Senile Yet!
    3rd Dec 2015
    1:49am
    Dear oh Dear!!!!! or is it OMG????
    Peterrj believes the liberal party Propaganda because he never knew the actual legislation passed BEFORE the second World War...that entitled ALL Citizens of Pension age(65 at that time) to receive a Retirement Pension from the Government who would in turn tax the same citizens an extra 4% and put same money into a separate Trust to finance same when they retired.
    This was legislated as an Entitlement.....look it up!!!!
    As for the twiddling done to same by consecutive Parties.....none of the twiddling was to improve the system but to dismantle it through the cost savings created by the same twiddling!!!!
    Altering something to save costs because you cannot Balance the budget is not the same as improving it or keeping it!!!!
    The baby Boomer Generation.....which the current government is crying poor about not being able to pay the pension from the tax revenue.....has created a massive Fund right up to the 90's....invested separately to assist payment of the Pensions to Baby Boomers!!!
    Malcolm Fraser enlisted the Labor Opposition to access that retirement nest egg during a mini-recession.....to create jobs and invest in infrastructure!!!!
    The agreement was that it was to be paid back....that it was a loan!
    Magically a NEW PARLIAMENT HOUSE....bigger than the White House.....appeared in Canberra!!!!!
    Later the Recession we were meant to have hit harder and no money was ever repaid to the fund.....however as if by magic....Compulsory Super appeared to replace it and Asset Tests were introduced to hopefully minimise any future Pensions!!!!
    That is what by stealth means!!!!
    Quietly...piece by piece...legislation to cost cut to save re-jigged the Pensions as part of the Welfare System!!!!
    This was never going to work.....it is not working even now!!!
    All the Baby Boomers were promised Pensions when they retire for over HALF of their working lives.....and they were reminded of it often by the same Politicians/Parties that had no intention of honouring that system....because they had every intention of dismantling it!!
    I repeat.....EVERYONE....was to receive a pension on retirement regardless of their Assets!!!!!
    It only became unaffordable when they raided the Cookie Jar of Savings invested for same!!!!
    With regard to the word Entitlement.......remember this:::
    Australian Baby Boomers and their Parents built through their taxes every road, rail, Council,State & Federal Govt Buildings all across this great Land....Every Library, School, Hospital and University whether Private or public was financed by that Generation!!!
    Not to mention every successful Business and all the Power & Water Infrastructure was built then and paid for then.....only to be sold off to Private Enterprise!!!!
    Be aware.....Australia only had less that 12 Million as a tax base back then.....now we have 30 million......which is 2and a half times the 12 of back then!!!!
    How can any Govt Claim to be broke...or in debt....when they have the highest tax Income EVER and the LOWEST Debt to pay based on they have sold everything and now no longer have to invest????
    Yes....There is an Entilted Generation of Baby Boomers......not through hard work.....but rather through sacrifice to build the infrastructure we now all enjoy.....and to supply the population growth to replace themselves as tax payers!!!!
    Dam Tooting the Pension is an entitlement!!!!
    And just like the liberal view to propagate continued lies about Pensions being Welfare....it was never Welfare...it was pre-paid by extra tax that was squandered by both parties with no foresight for their future commitments to provide the Pension not as Welfare....but as a return for higher taxes that were invested and them raided!!!!
    Get Your Facts Straight.....and Stop with the Liberal Right Wing Propaganda of Lies and Lies and more Lies!!!!
    Pisces
    3rd Dec 2015
    2:20am
    Dear Not Senile Yet - Thank you such a succinct history of our 'promised' pension history total agree now if we could just stop the lies and spin - I was once the eternal optimist but not any more
    Adrianus
    3rd Dec 2015
    11:00am
    You're dam tooting it is an entitlement. For anyone who has lived in Australia for 10 years. Or you can get it immediately if you have just arrived and classified as a refugee, or if you are a woman. But it is not an entitlement for people who have worked 50 years in Oz and accumulated some wealth. So it has absolutely no qualification criterion which includes , Country loyalty, building of infrastructure, hard work over a number of years or indeed any hard work over a single day, the payment of taxes even just $1. It seems that the so called entitlement is only for some who have turned 65 and cannot look after themselves.
    Pisces
    3rd Dec 2015
    2:05am
    I am sick and tired of being portrayed as an up and coming drain on the country. I have worked hard all my life, I'm still working now self-employed because nobody will employ an older person - anti discrimination be damned. How come we get to work and pollies get to stuff up the country and its finances then retire with a nice pension - thanks for nothing guys
    Linda
    4th Dec 2015
    1:46pm
    Yes. Try to see the entire government, all the actors, who might actually be pulling their weight. Who is working for us and who is not?
    Peterrj
    20th Dec 2015
    6:58am
    Pisces, "I am sick and tired of being portrayed as an up and coming drain on the country."

    Yes, it is a disgrace. Many quote legislation enshrined before the Boer War but there is a new reality. The oldies are getting older, they are costing taxpayers more. And tax payer numbers are drying up.

    It's a mathematical equation that we don't want to hear about.

    I am afraid that we collectively are going to be portrayed more than just a drain on our country .... This is our reward!!!!

    Can't say that I am happy about how we will be thought of by future tax payers .... but that will be the new reality!
    Not Senile Yet!
    3rd Dec 2015
    2:06am
    As for the Movie Mogels......bringing more paid work.....get real mate!
    That is part-time work for the majority and Fulltime only for the minority who are earning the lion's share!!!!
    No bank will finance a loan on Part-time work to buy a house!!!!
    You need full time employment to buy and keep a Mortgage...and you know that!!!!
    60 Million to the economy and 60 Part-time jobs.....for less than 3-6 Mths.....is a great add-on to the economy....but it does not meet the needs of the population when it comes to paying a mortgage or feeding the family that will become the future of our Country!!!!!
    Yes..the tax breaks brings them to Oz.....but why????
    Because we,,,,,,,, the mug tax payer.....is subsidising them!!!!!
    Not the Government.....we the tax payers are subsidising them!!!
    Of course they will come....their own Country which is richer than we are.....simply are not that stupid are they?????
    Or is it because 3,000 Million voices can be harder to fool than 30 Million who are stupid!!!!?????
    The only people who benefit the most are the Rich Investors and Lead Actors......which I remind you are citizens of another Country...so they pay no tax here...do they???
    But Oh Yes.....We need to be so grateful that our Government gives them tax breaks that put an even greater squeeze on Balancing the Budget!!!!!
    maxchugg
    3rd Dec 2015
    11:42am
    The prize for hypocrisy, won by Bill Hayden when he accepted the "anachronistic" role of Governor-General has gone to Joe Hockey.
    After lecturing us about the need to be lifters, not leaners, Joe raised the retiring age to 70, then retired on an indexed for life parliamentary pension at the age of 50.
    Some interesting figures emerge from the information that is available.
    Without allowing for inflation, a pensioner couple who own their own home, who retire at 70 and collect $1218.80 per fortnight will collect a total of around $317,000 in the 10 years they are pensioners.
    Assuming that Joe spends 5 years in a job that better qualified people would do for nothing more than the status, lurks and perks, Joe will collect $2.25 million in salary from the long-suffering taxpayers in that time - 5 years @ $450,000.
    Returning home and going into full retirement, 55 year old Joe will then collect an indexed $180,000 for the next 25 years, assuming he survives until he is 80. Total cost to the taxpayer for this period of time will be a paltry $4.5 million.
    Even if Joe went straight into retirement and didn't take a job that others would kill for, his retirement package, without allowing for inflation, would still be $5.4 million.
    So, by his own definition, is Joe a lifter or a leaner?
    And what about pensioners, are they lifters, leaners, or losers.
    The latter, I fear!
    Linda
    4th Dec 2015
    1:43pm
    Yes! When a belt tightening exercise is needed, then those who are pushing it, should first look at what they personally can do. Too add insult to injury, these guys are asking for dough from others, to help them get elected, so they can get that money. So, lets add up Joe Hocky's personal investment in himself.

    Free education, gets donations to be elected, marries a rich wife.
    Then gets tax payer funded job in parliament. Then perhaps some special lurks from mates to vote certain ways for certain favors. Not saying he did but might have.

    More campaign finance from others keeps Joe looking good for voters, Joe gets to be a minister and receive even more tax payer money.

    He then charges us almost 300. per night he stay in Canberra, because it is an expense related to his job. The money goes to enrich his wife.

    He can organise expensive repasts, thanks to us, extra nice transport thanks to us, and of course big cigars.

    Then due to a change in leader he retires and begins to enjoy the taxpayer funded benefits for that. But, no, that is not enough, now he will take a well paid job to be able to continue to spend tax payer money as he sees fit, in his job.

    How much money do you need Joe? Who is it with the snout in the feed bin?
    Virginia
    3rd Dec 2015
    2:10pm
    How can it be an entitlement. People who have sat on Welfare all their life get it... Nothing to do with work... Superannuation is an entitlement created by work!!!!!
    Want want want get out and earn a living and a retirement!!!!
    Go to a 3rd world country and see just how well off EVERYONE is here in Aus.
    Peterrj
    3rd Dec 2015
    11:54pm
    Virginia, you have raised this illogical entitlement rubbsh into their logical argument ... Those on Welfare all their life are entitled to the Aged Pension! Can't disagree with that!!!
    Jolly
    4th Dec 2015
    2:36pm
    Well said Virginia and so true.
    maxchugg
    5th Dec 2015
    10:28am
    This is a developing trend, what used to be a right has become a privilege.
    First it was a driver's licence, now it is the age pension.
    Where to from here? Will health care become a privilege, not a right? How about education?
    Another problem is that essential services are now priced so that they have become unaffordable luxuries for some.
    The threat to electricity suppliers posed by the emergence of battery storage systems has been largely offset by massive increases in distribution charges, with the next move being that distribution charges will be payable even if you disconnect, so electricity will become a new tax.
    Anonymous
    6th Dec 2015
    2:50pm
    Actually, Virginia, Australian retirees are NOT well off by world standards. Sure, we have a better standard of living than some 3rd world countries. But that situation won't last long if Morrison and his ilk get away with claiming the age pension is ''welfare''.

    They make these statements to prime the populace for cuts that drive pensioners into poverty. Call it ''welfare'', and it doesn't need to provide a comfortable living - just a bare existence.

    Those who endorse Morrison's vile insults to older Australians are supporting an ongoing campaign to reduce our living standards to 3rd world level. Watch it happen!
    ex PS
    15th Dec 2015
    6:18pm
    So are you saying that all Australian workers are to be judged the same as the few who rought the welfare system? If we do that, what insentive do we give those in the majority who do the right thing? This government is sneakily trying to link pensioners with welfare bludgers so that it can get away with treating us likea second class sub culture. It has worked with asylum seekers and they are hoping it will work with pensioners.
    Jolly
    4th Dec 2015
    2:30pm
    I wonder why everybody is kicking the Baby Boomers. I am a Baby Boomer(1949) and I don't have the millions every body is talking about. Only the rich have that.
    Pamiea
    5th Dec 2015
    1:19pm
    Disgraceful thinking Mr Morrison. The sooner you get booted out the better. Stop robbing from average Mr, Ms and Mrs Australia and start to look long and hard at the perks created for wealthy Australians to hide income ie family trusts etc. Make people who can afford private health cover pay for it instead of bleeding the health care coffers and then grizzling when they have to wait.
    oldie
    5th Dec 2015
    2:26pm
    Can't believe this. Only someone who is to get a huge "welfare" payment when they get out of parliament would make such a comment. We have worked for 50 years and quite frankly, it is a pension for "reward of service" Mr Morrison but you wouldn't know because you probably do very little actual work on a daily basis.
    Jannie
    7th Dec 2015
    8:58pm
    AGREE WITH YOU PAMIEA
    VJ
    7th Dec 2015
    11:55am
    As a person on the aged pension who began work as a 12 year old, working after school and a tax payer all of my life (No tax avoidance here) I am appalled to read that the Treasurer considers my pension is not an entitlement but a welfare payment. What is not an entitlement are the jaunts his kind can go on along with their families and today's tax payers pay for.
    alfie
    7th Dec 2015
    1:53pm
    Entitlement just like the other countries such as Canada. USA and other European countries.
    worker
    7th Dec 2015
    2:06pm
    The age pension is a entitlement and MP to WHO are employed by the Australian citizens should stop attacking this and start reducing the so called life time allowances 'they get after leaving the employment (MP) of the Australian citizens.

    This group of occupational employees are the only ones that get payed along with other pirks after they are no longer a employee.(I bet Holdens will not pay their past employee s for life after they have left).
    therefore the first place to save some millions of dollar's per year would be to remove the life time perks etc
    Jannie
    7th Dec 2015
    8:57pm
    409 comments and they are still coming thick and strong. It is about time we stood up to the government for many reasons and the major one I see is the benefits the pollies get when they retire, cut their benefits and they are to retire on the same pension we get.
    THIS WOULD SAVE MILLIONS EVERY YEAR.
    wendan31
    8th Dec 2015
    3:55am
    No doubt Mr Morrison will sit back and enjoy his HUGE payout AND his pension when he leaves politics for which we all work to provide.
    Jannie
    8th Dec 2015
    8:43am
    He will not be getting anything as far as I am concerned I will not be voting for the Libs or Labour SO PLEASE EVERYONE THINK CAREFULLY ABOUT WHO YOU VOTE FOR
    Adrianus
    8th Dec 2015
    9:24am
    The Greens are looking good, but they give their preferences to Labor? It's a real quandary? The Independents are useless and given a couple more we will have the Independents running the country. The new Islamic party will run a few candidates, but who wants sharia law? The Anti Islamic party sounds as bigoted as the Islamic party and do they have any other policies apart from religious dogma?
    I think the new Small Business Party may be an option? At least regardless of who is in charge they will have a voice. If we can give them more media time I'm sure we will learn a few things about the bottlenecks to progress and job creation.
    professori_au
    14th Dec 2015
    11:10am
    Morrison is wrong. but like many politicians is not interested in the truth. The entitlement to a pension has been paid for by the people of the commonwealth via taxes. similarly superannuation entitlement was paid for with contribution from workers, employers and was supposed to be matched by governments. what happened. Incompetent recording, mismanagement and the government with its hand in the till has meant many people have lost that entitlement or had it reduced as the government finds it has taken too much of that money for its own agenda. They were smart about the politicians entitlement with the creation of the Futures Fund that was put in a tax haven account in an offshore haven where the public could be denied access, accountability and transparency. Why? They are using taxpayers funds to fund the Futures fund, so we should be entitled to know all about it. As the very rich are protected by paying a fair share of the tax burden it would seem they have not lost a great deal
    Old Fella
    15th Dec 2015
    1:16pm
    When elected politicians leave office per eviction or retirement; what is their viewpoint to describe the retirement funding / grants they receive upon exiting Parliament . An entitlement or a Welfare payment.
    I am all for consistency and standardization of Australian citizenship rights and prerogatives and would suggest that entitlement would be the ex/retired politicians choice and viewpoint about what they receive upon exiting parliament. So should it be for every other Australian, entitlement to the commonwealth created by and from their working life. And if tinkering and or remodeling of entitlements is required because of changed commonwealth values then lets start with the Nations Politics and Politicians.
    professori_au
    15th Dec 2015
    1:40pm
    People fleeing their country because of sharia law and the injustices and inhumanity that occurs need to understand that the law of this country is not Sharia law and if you come to this country then you must obey our laws and not try to change them. Our constitution protects your rights to worship as you wish but it is also clear that our Rule of Law and is based on the 10 commandments through the Molmutine Laws of Britain (tribal laws), which influenced the laws of the Magna Carta, the Westminster system of law that we inherited under our Commonwealth Constitution 1900-1901. It is not based on religion but laws developed by the people. The Molmutine Laws were practiced in Britain some 3,500 years before Christ; codified by King David 500 years before Christ to become the system of law we have today. Anyone suggesting we change them to sharia law might find that potentially they are committing treason against the people of the commonwealth of Australia. Amendment to the constitution is possible but only where there is a majority of the States and Territories and a majority of the people within those states and territories. If they like sharia law why did they leave? I thought they left because of injustices and fear.
    Peterrj
    20th Dec 2015
    7:17am
    Professori_au. I don't wish to challenge you position but ask a question.

    What if those who believed in Sharia Law became the voting majority ..... Are we then to deny the majority of Australians the law thy will demand??

    Actually 2 questions:

    If the legislators pass Sharia Law to be the law of the land in Australia ... then wouldn't we then have to accept In total Sharia Law as you now advocate 'our' current laws must be obeyed???

    Ask any Muslim who made Australia and you will be told, 'Allah made Australia, this is his land!' If Australia is Allah's land the. Why shouldn't his laws be adopted here in Australia???

    Sharia Law is only 'bad' if you disobey it!!!!! If you comply with it then what's the problem???? Future generations better get used to the idea .......
    Adrianus
    20th Dec 2015
    8:45am
    The growing Muslim population is yet another drain on the government aged pension system.
    The Quran forbids Muslims from making money from money, so they cannot use products that involve the charging of interest nor invest in traditional financial services products. This of course would include Superannuation.
    Is it possible that some of the $billions in lost Superannuation is not lost at all but untouchable by true Muslims?
    Does Centrelink assess a Muslim's Super even though they refuse to touch it?
    As the Muslim population grows so too does the need for Sharia Law.
    ex PS
    15th Dec 2015
    6:05pm
    Watch this government, just like they have managed to viilify asylum seekersw by repeatadly referring to them as illegal immigrants, they are now calling people who have worked all their lives and paid taxes to fund the pensio0n scheme welfare recipients. It is a war of words and they are experts at it. The pension is not a hand out it is an entitlement. It's about time governments of all flavours realise that older Australians are not a soft target that can be milked whenever they need more money. As a solid voting block we can just about decide who runs this country.
    Adrianus
    17th Dec 2015
    9:22am
    ex, you are right about one thing and that is.....

    "As a solid voting block we can just about decide who runs this country."

    There in lies our greatest challenge in continuing to be a prosperous country with a strong social security safety net.
    A great proportion of the population have been put on the welfare teet for political purposes. Crikey, even those who earn above average wage are welfare recipients. In many cases those who work are not as well off as those who don't.
    Nobody wants to take a hit for the country anymore. :(
    ex PS
    17th Dec 2015
    11:42am
    Frank, you are right, it has long been a stratedgy of political partys in this country to buy votes by either giving targeted voters welfare subsidies or tax cuts. The politicians are then congradulated for their generosity. What voters don't realise is that the government is only giving back what they took off us in taxes.
    The government gives us nothing, it has no money, it all belongs to the taxpayer. Maybe some of us may feel entitled, but this feeling of entitlement has been encouraged by successive governments and it will very hard to encourage people to act for the greater good of the country with this current batch of politicians as an example.
    Jannie
    17th Dec 2015
    8:49am
    IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET A PETITION UP AND RUNNING FROM THIS SITE AND SEND IT OFF TO THE WACKERS?
    ex PS
    17th Dec 2015
    10:51am
    Good idea, what politicians fear more than losing political donations, is not winning the next election. We all need to forget about how we used to vote and vote for what will benefit us most as a group. In America the politicians are held hostage by the gun loby. This organisation does not have a huge amount of voters, but it threatens to concentrate the vote they have against their opponants. Surely the threat of similar action from Australian Greys will make them think about seeing us as easy targets. After all it has pretty well been proven that the flavour of government in power does not really have much influence on our economic viability, as much as each party would have us believe it does.
    Pendrey
    17th Aug 2016
    10:52am
    Mr Morrison should stop looking at these matters from the point of view of those well off. He allows massive tax benefits for the rich through Superanuation, Negative Gearing, Trusts etc and then wants to reduce benefits from those less well off. Until we start voting accordingly we are going to suffer repeated loss of benefits from this government.
    DennisKL
    29th Sep 2016
    9:42pm
    Age pensions will always be under attack

    Thought about some possible income support Solutions that are low risk with better outcomes than fixed deposit and safer than the share market

    Check this, love to hear your views

    www.asc-club.weebly.com

    Dennis
    Adrianus
    30th Sep 2016
    8:40am
    I saw only questions, no answers .
    Joy Anne
    8th Jan 2018
    11:12am
    We are entitled to a pension even though its below the poverty line.
    WHY SHOULD THERE BE ONE RULE FOR PENSIONERS AND ONE RULE FOR POLITIANS.
    POLITIANS SHOULD NOT BE GETTING MASSIVE PENSIONS AND PERKS THEY ARE NOT ENTITLED TO IT. THEN THEY GET ANOTHER JOB FOR 200,000-300,000 AND STILL GET THE PENSION.
    TURNBULL SAYS THAT IT IS THE END OF ENTITLEMENT THAT SHOULD BE THE SAME FOR POLITIANS. LETS ALL STAND UP AND SHOUT LOUD.


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