Older Australians may not be able to get coronavirus vaccines when available

Experts are looking into strategies around the shortcomings of potential vaccines.

woman signals no vaccine for you

Older Australians are the most vulnerable to coronavirus death and would receive priority if or when a vaccine was made available.

That was the advice of Department of Health secretary Brendan Murphy.

But they may be pushed to the back of the queue, as the vaccines have not yet been tested on older people.

“Most of the vaccines have not been trialled in the over-65s and it’s quite likely that the first registrations of some vaccines will exclude them being used in over-65s,” Dr Murphy told a Senate estimates hearing on Tuesday.

“So, we then have to think about a second level priority.”

Higher up the priority list are health and aged care workers, as well as Indigenous Australians, and children, too, if a vaccine is deemed effective at preventing transmission.

“We don’t immunise children generally to protect them, it’s to develop that herd immunity,” he said.

Experts are still out on whether we’ll ever have an effective ‘vaccine’. However, they seem more confident that, while a vaccine may not prevent transmission, it should be able to prevent severe cases of the disease.

They are also looking into various strategies around any possible limitations of potential vaccines.

“This is a logistic challenge of the likes we've never seen before, so we are going to need a range of strategies,” said Dr Murphy.

“We haven’t landed all of those plans yet because they’re all very complex.”

On release of any vaccine, clinics would be set up at hospitals and GP clinics, and some coronavirus testing centres may be repurposed to administer injections.

“We’re planning to train up a whole army of additional nurses to be nurse immunisers,” said Dr Murphy.

Should the vaccine be deemed safe to administer to older people, special teams would be set up to vaccinate aged care staff and residents as a priority.

If not, aged care staff only may be immunised until vaccines are declared safe for older people.

It’s also likely we’ll all need two coronavirus jabs, authorities told the Senate.

Do you feel safer knowing vaccines will be ‘tested’ prior to you receiving jabs?

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    COMMENTS

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    clancambo
    29th Oct 2020
    10:06am
    Only adds to my thoughts that world wide, Governments are concerned about the effects of an ageing population, so I'm sure we Senior citizens will never be a genuine priority as far as covid-19 vaccines are concerned. If fact they are only paying lip service when suggesting their concern about the number of deaths in the aged sectors!
    ozjames70
    29th Oct 2020
    11:05am
    Why don't the politicians just round us up, kill us off and take our assets. Solves many headaches they have created and takes away those calling for accountability. Remove those who have experienced better and then re-write the history books. Not the first dictators who've done it.
    Maggie
    29th Oct 2020
    11:07am
    This is a totally repugnant way of thinking about ageing and medicine generally.
    I am constantly surprised at the number of procedures offered , and accepted gratefully by really old people. Think of all the bypass operations, all the chemo, all the hip, shoulder and knee replacement that are done everwhere to name just a few.
    If they wanted to get rid of us, they wouldn't be engaged in helping us to live longer quality lives.
    When people refuse vaccines they have to take on the responsibility of the very real possibility that they might pass on the virus and cause the death/s of other people.
    Farside
    29th Oct 2020
    3:32pm
    Maggie is on the money. The amount of money spent during the last 12 months of someone's life is nonsensical. If you could do a deal to split the difference would you take a payment for half that amount and carry your own risk?
    hyperbole
    29th Oct 2020
    7:43pm
    I wont be taking the vaccine even though I have had almost every other one known to man; yellow fever, typhoid etc and every year the flu shot. I will be taking responsibility for my own health by washing hands when required, social distancing and wearing a mask on public transport. If I get it and kick the bucket so be it!
    Lookfar
    29th Oct 2020
    10:22am
    The less possibility that it becomes compulsory the better.
    Winston Smith
    29th Oct 2020
    11:23am
    It MUST be compulsory for those who CAN have it in order to protect those who can't.
    Triss
    29th Oct 2020
    11:59am
    Before you think like that, Winston, look back into history. When politicians become legally able to do something like compulsory vaccinations it’s only a short step to believing that they should be legally able to override any kind of human rights.
    inextratime
    29th Oct 2020
    12:10pm
    So you believe that anti vaxers have the right to deny their kids the opportunity to be immune ?
    Winston Smith
    29th Oct 2020
    1:22pm
    No Triss, that would NOT be "only a short step".

    29th Oct 2020
    10:23am
    I don't want a jab anyway. I don't trust vaccines much. Never have a flu vaccine and never get flu. If I were to get a deadly disease, I would tell myself I'd had a good innings and it was inevitable I would die of something. Better to die of natural causes than to be killed by foreign substances being injected into me. Remember Thalidomide? It was 'tested and proven'.
    Pass the Ductape
    29th Oct 2020
    11:05am
    Jeez mate - that's cold! Lucky for you we all don't think like this. Perhaps you should thank the rest of us who DO get vaccinated for your good health - thus far!

    Very pragmatic view about living and dying though and possibly a view many might also hold, but having got cancer and survived it - courtesy of modern medicine - I must say it doesn't do a lot for me.
    greygeek
    29th Oct 2020
    11:15am
    Thalidomide now known as Lenalidomide is used as an oral chemotherapy drug on certain types of Cancer! It is an insidious chemical with side effects too! It will not cure the cancer, just prolong the patient's life adding more unwanted side effects.
    Winston Smith
    29th Oct 2020
    11:23am
    It MUST be compulsory for those who CAN have it in order to protect those who can't.
    diamond
    29th Oct 2020
    1:18pm
    Nothing MUST be compulsory. We are not living under communism yet.
    Winston Smith
    29th Oct 2020
    1:24pm
    OK diamond, not compulsory, but if you don't have it, we apply rules just like with child care centres and kindergartens today. If you don't have it, you can never go anywhere where vulnerable people might be.
    Foxy
    29th Oct 2020
    1:46pm
    diamond ...no - not yet! However by the way Victoria is heading won't be long!
    Winston Smith
    29th Oct 2020
    1:48pm
    Foxy - Stop whinging. It makes you look like a Lib lover, and who'd want that?
    clancambo
    29th Oct 2020
    4:21pm
    Young again You're just plain lucky! and a damned selfish person for sure. You are the type who may never get any symptoms but would be the one to pass the illness on.
    Those who would get an illness from you wouldn't give a damn about how good an "innings you have had!
    Just plain bloody selfish old fool by the sound of it!
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2020
    7:28am
    Clancambo, I think it is incredibly selfish to insist that someone should subject themselves to a health risk just because other people think it is safe and will protect them. If the vaccine works, nobody who has it is at risk of me or any other unvaccinated person passing it to them.

    Your argument is plain stupid. You suggest the vaccine will protect people, but only if I have it? That's absurd. It either works or it doesn't. If it works, those who choose not to trust it will not be putting anyone except themselves and others who don't trust it at risk. So what's the problem? Make your choice and feel good about being safe, and let me feel good about my choice. Why do you feel you have to dictate to everyone who disagrees with you?

    Honestly, the attitude of some people is mind-boggling. We should dictate that everyone must think and act alike, in accordance with 'expert advice'. Yet clearly
    'expert advice' isn't trusted, because 'expert advice' says vaccines stop you getting a sickness. But that same 'expert advice' says you ARE at risk of getting the sickness, even if vaccinated, unless everyone else has the vaccination. So does the vaccination protect you, or is it a great big con and a waste of time and resources?
    leek
    29th Oct 2020
    10:57am
    I am an aged care worker, but also just under 65. I might not have a choice, It may be No jab No work. They do not force us to have the Flu Jab, not sure about the Covid19 though.
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    1:59am
    A friend of mine who is a nurse and has lupus, with liver issues was coerced by her peers to have the flu vaccines, she felt she had not choice because they would not let her do certain jobs. She was really sick for about a week. She does not want the covid one for this reason.
    Lookfar
    29th Oct 2020
    11:17am
    Maggie, the people who don't want to risk the vaccine can't pass the vaccine on to those who have been vaccinated, - because they have been vaccinated, the risk is only whether the vaccine will damage you, - as Flu virus sometimes does, so please don't try to pull a guilt trip on those of us who are suspicious of vaccines for whatever reasons.
    Lookfar
    29th Oct 2020
    11:20am
    oops, cant pass the VIRUS on to the people who have already been vacinated..
    Winston Smith
    29th Oct 2020
    11:25am
    Tell us more about how Flu virus sometimes damages people. In Australia.
    Triss
    29th Oct 2020
    12:31pm
    Although rare, Winston, one of the more frightening side effects of the flu vaccine has been Guillain-Barré Syndrome, a disorder which causes paralysis. Quite large compensations have been paid out to victims of GBS.
    Winston Smith
    29th Oct 2020
    1:24pm
    In Australia? Concrete evidence please. Or you're lying.
    Foxy
    29th Oct 2020
    1:53pm
    Winston - go do some Google "fact checking"! You living in la la land! Over 700 people died of/from the flu in Australia 2019. 'Get yourself vaccinated and stop barking orders at others - people have choices in this World! (or used to!)
    Winston Smith
    29th Oct 2020
    1:56pm
    Foxy - people with a real understanding of scientific proof NEVER tell others to look something up themselves. That's' the behaviour of conspiracy theory nutters.

    So no, I WILL NOT go do some Google "fact checking"!

    No evidence presented here means you don't have any.
    Foxy
    29th Oct 2020
    8:20pm
    Winston- I gave you "facts" of how many people died from flu in Australia in 2019 ....what don't you understand? Try reading properly (might help?)
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    2:01am
    You won't find much using google anyway, so much is being suppressed about those who have vaccine injuries.
    Jimy
    29th Oct 2020
    11:22am
    Any vaccine should be fully tested.
    Winston Smith
    29th Oct 2020
    11:26am
    Yes. And? Are you suggesting it wouldn't be?

    There has never been bad vaccine in Australia, at least partly because our standards are high.
    diamond
    29th Oct 2020
    1:44pm
    There have been bad vaccines in Australia - the diptheria deaths in Bundaberg to name just one:
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-09-22/vaccine-history-coronavirus-smallpox-spanish-flu/12673832#:~:text=In%201928%2C%2012%20children%20in,in%20a%202011%20academic%20paper.


    And:
    https://www.halenet.com.au/~jvbryant/Bundseru.html
    Winston Smith
    29th Oct 2020
    1:54pm
    Thanks for those links diamond. The problem is, neither source tells us what actually happened. My scientific mind wants know how the vaccine got "contaminated". Local problem? Bad batch from the source?
    diamond
    29th Oct 2020
    1:59pm
    What scientific mind? You make statements without any facts to back them up and come the bully when noone agrees with you.
    Foxy
    29th Oct 2020
    4:22pm
    lol - I'll second that! .... and third ...and fourth and ....... lololol ...calls other peeps "nutters"......when he/she appears to be the biggest!? :)
    Winston Smith
    29th Oct 2020
    11:27am
    Is this loyal Liberal servant Murphy telling us the government thinks they can't change our votes? You rusted on Lib voters need to change yours.
    Sceptic
    29th Oct 2020
    12:37pm
    Uh?
    Lookfar
    29th Oct 2020
    1:08pm
    Winston, - some of the effects are much longer in showing, and some are much more legal, - ie I can't visit my ex because I have not had the flu vaccine, yet I never catch the flu.

    Many tell me they never caught the flu until they had the flu vaccine, - now they get it every year unless they have the vaccine.

    That sounds like a good scam perpetrated by big pharma For big pharma.

    However the last thing, is that if a person has a reaction to the flu vaccine, because nurses, (and doctors) are trained to believe there is no reaction to the flu vaccine, they use inappropriate medicines and treatments that will and have killed those people.

    sucks.
    Winston Smith
    29th Oct 2020
    1:21pm
    Utter nonsense.

    Where do you get this garbage? Seriously.

    I'd like to see some real evidence. Something better than "Many tell me..."
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    2:04am
    So true Lookfar, my mum is in her early 80's and has never got the flu vac, yet all her friends have and they all get the flu but my mum never does.
    Farside
    30th Oct 2020
    2:30pm
    sometimes anecdotes and faith are preferred over medical evidence
    Triss
    29th Oct 2020
    11:51am
    Are older Australians more at risk from dying of Covid 19 or has the substandard care in care homes over the years lowered immunity and strength to fight it? Politicians are running like cockroaches to get out of the spotlight and cover their backs hoping that people will forget how they’ve ignored complaints about myriads of abuses, emotional, physical and premature deaths in care homes for decades.
    Jim
    29th Oct 2020
    11:57am
    Wasn’t it only yesterday or maybe the day before that the experts stated older men had greater immunity and created better prospects after they had been infected, and their blood or plasma could provide a stronger immunity for or treatment for others. I am not sure why we have so many scare tactics being published on what seems to be a daily basis, I suppose some people have to get their jollies somewhere.
    Winston Smith
    29th Oct 2020
    1:26pm
    The problem with that post is your use of "the experts"> I ask, which experts? Seriously.
    Lookfar
    29th Oct 2020
    1:34pm
    Winston, the misstreatment was from a daughter whose father was dying and she spotted the problem, - ie personal observation, the comment about never catching the
    flue before is also, but Several friends saying this, so your statement,

    "Utter nonsense. Where do you get this garbage? Seriously. I'd like to see some real evidence. Something better than "Many tell me..."

    Requires more than just your asseverations, the which are not even hearsay.
    diamond
    29th Oct 2020
    1:54pm
    Winston read the article instead of attacking every poster on this forum. You are a very unpleasant old man.
    diamond
    29th Oct 2020
    1:57pm
    https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/health/covid19/older-men-key-to-beating-covid
    Winston Smith
    29th Oct 2020
    1:58pm
    I have lived my life reliant on using and delivering factual information, with evidence. I cannot accept anecdotal stories as evidence.
    diamond
    29th Oct 2020
    2:03pm
    Haven't seen one piece of factual information supplied by you yet. It is all insults and no substance.
    Lookfar
    29th Oct 2020
    2:15pm
    Winston, - you never quoted which Experts, diamond, you don't contribute by attacking everyone who questions Winston, - Where are you coming from?

    Paid? - hopefully not and we don't need Paid on our discussion group.
    Jim
    29th Oct 2020
    2:18pm
    Yes Winston, I often ask myself which experts, It seems we have lots of experts and lots of non experts that want to create a confusing state, there is some evidence from some experts there is lots of opinions from other experts, until there is some provable evidence, I will try and keep an open mind, those that want to create panic and misinformation will continue to do so for their own reasons.
    diamond
    29th Oct 2020
    2:31pm
    Lookfar I think you are mixed up I have not attacked anybody who questions Winston. I agree with anyone who questions Winston because he is a know-it-all who attacks any statement I have ever made.

    I don't know where your attack on me comes from. Maybe you can point out who I have attacked.

    I certainly never mentioned paid. I don't know where you got that from.
    Theo1943
    30th Oct 2020
    1:09pm
    Winston "I have lived my life reliant on using and delivering factual information, with evidence"
    Weren't you working for the Department of Truth back in 1984? :-)
    inextratime
    29th Oct 2020
    12:04pm
    Sounds as if the our Health Care Officers have no idea what will happen if a vaccine is created. This discussion has a lot more miles in it yet, including votes.
    Frankly
    29th Oct 2020
    12:18pm
    Are not the elderly most at risk? Younger and healthy people don't need a vaccine, most don't even show symptoms. What is the real agenda here?
    Sceptic
    29th Oct 2020
    12:53pm
    A vaccinated person is expected to be immune, therefore cannot pass on an infection that they do not have. Is it beyond your reasoning to see that the more people, of whatever age, are vaccinated by a good vaccine, the less likely any unvaccinated people are likely to be infected???????
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    2:07am
    Money for big pharma and especially Bill Gates Franky, only have to follow the money trail.
    Sceptic, are you kidding me, no vaccine gives you 100% protection, and many pass only with 50% effectiveness.
    Also there has never been studies of unvaccinated babies, children or adults against vaccinated to see any differences. No money in it, is there?
    Farside
    30th Oct 2020
    2:38pm
    Sceptic, it's a reach to say a vaccinated person is expected to be immune, a vaccinated person has a higher chance of a vigorous immune response to overwhelm the virus than an unvaccinated person subject to vaccine effectiveness.

    Incognito, money for Bill Gates? I thought he was trying to spend his money.
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    5:48pm
    Vaccines can overstimulate the immune system, we have a perfectly good immune system that is inbuilt you just have to look after it.

    You need to investigate Bill Gates more, he makes more money than he gives out, and who does he give it to? To those making more money for him lol
    Aravis
    29th Oct 2020
    12:40pm
    Poor article, and very poor comments by Murphy. FFS, nurses don't need to be trained to give vaccines, they do it all the time.
    And why should older people be less safe with a vaccine thqat is given to babies and children?
    Murphy is doing his masters' bidding and preparing for the govt to say they don't have enough vaccines. Enough already, stop taking older people for fools!
    SKRAPI
    29th Oct 2020
    12:57pm
    DON'T CARE GLAD IN Fact i keep myself healthy don't want big pharma jabs don't know what's in them . i do think though it's going 2 b new policy 2 get rid of as many of old people as possible & this is a way of doing it without uproar already in uk. nurse said old folk in her nursing home were getting double dose & 2 were dead 7 ill & 25 2 go afyer injections .
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    2:09am
    Every vacccine comes with a leaflet but doctors never give it too you, read the ingredients list, scary stuff.
    Farside
    30th Oct 2020
    2:39pm
    Lots of things can be scary if you do not understand them.
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    5:49pm
    I understand what a toxic ingredient is Farside. I have done my research and we can see so much increases in diseases, people are not healthier are they?
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2020
    7:44am
    You are so right, Incognito. Ignore the detractors. They are showing their ignorance. We are seeing huge increases in numbers of autistic children, but somehow those who blame vaccinations for autism are 'charlatans' or 'foolish and ignorant'. We are seeing people whose cancer is said to be 'definitely terminal' cure themselves with natural remedies, yet only the medically-approved treatments should be trusted. I've seen people undergo 'essential' surgery, only to emerge with far more pain and less mobility than before they went under the knife. We are seeing doctors keep people 'alive' in a state of living death, for no better reason than that the law says assisted dying is sinful and all life is precious. Really? Mine won't be when my brain is dead. Please don't torture me by keeping my body alive!

    We don't have a 'health' industry in developed countries. We have a sickness industry. Doctors put you on a round-about, giving you this for that complaint and then that to counteract the side-effects of this and something else to counteract the side-effects of that. And every script they write puts dollars in their pocket and dollars in the huge pockets of rich pharmaceutical companies. Why on earth would they want to tell the truth about the risks and potential side effects of the 'cures' they peddle - much less tell you that Mother Nature has a better treatment available that costs next to nothing?

    We have more people seeing dieticians than ever before, yet we have a huge increase in obesity and diabetes. We have flu vaccinations now, yet we are seeing huge increases in serious respiratory diseases. The percentage of chronically ill or disabled in developed countries are skyrocketing. The cost of public 'health' is crippling the developed world. Yes, we are seeing greater longevity, but at what cost?

    I choose to balance 'expert' medical opinion with common sense and advice from those who believe in natural therapies. I will trust a doctor when it seems wise to do so. I will take a vaccine when it seems wise to do so. But no selfish bully, who accuses me of putting others at risk, will persuade me to trust a vaccine that apparently can't protect those who have it - or else why would it matter that I choose not to?
    Alan
    29th Oct 2020
    1:01pm
    I would be very upset if I can not receive the vaccination simply because of age. My thinking is that it would probably be a requirement for travel to other countries and as someone who has enjoyed catching up with friends in other countries on an annual basis and also visiting some of the high mountains around the world it would be extremely distressing not to be able to do this which I am still physically able. Already during this year I have had to return early from India and abandoned a trip to Russia, Kazakhstan and a few other places.
    Lookfar
    29th Oct 2020
    1:16pm
    Hi Alan, good point, thanks for sharing.
    KSS
    29th Oct 2020
    1:23pm
    Yet another fear mongering slant based on half truths and misinformation.

    This completely ignores the Queensland option which IS being tested on the over 60s.

    YLC seems to delight in bringing as much doom and gloom as it can wring out every single day. I bet very shortly there will be another article about how depressed older Australian are!
    Lookfar
    29th Oct 2020
    1:39pm
    Hi KSS, it depends on which side you see it from, - the following article, the which argues the bad, also suggests the answer.
    - https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2020/10/29/humanitys-madness-would-not-be-possible-without-extensive-marketing/

    Cheers.
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    2:10am
    Yes KSS it is called click bait.
    Steff
    29th Oct 2020
    2:13pm
    GOOD They can stick their hastily developed vaccine where the sun dont shine.The people rushing to develop these DNA altering poisons are Greedy Criminals who couldnt give a stuff about the wellbeing of the recipients and are only after the power and the money.I wouldnt trust phsychopaths like Kill Bates as far as i could kick him.He is responsible for untold amounts of pain and suffering of women and children in Africa and India with his experimental concoctions.
    Lookfar
    29th Oct 2020
    2:21pm
    Steff, right on, - if Bill Gates, who has sterilised 30% of women in Kenya, actually went to Kenya it would be Killed Bates, - nothing would stop those warrior women and they have a just cause, - and they know who did it to them.
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    2:11am
    Spot on Steff, Bill Gates is an evil person who is in Eugenics club, he keeps giving out advice every week about covid and has no medical knowledge or qualification.
    Farside
    30th Oct 2020
    2:44pm
    It would be foolish to think Bill Gates is not well informed about matters he speaks despite no formal qualification. He consults widely among many advisors at the tops of their field. Remember he did not get a degree in computing and the rest is history.
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    5:51pm
    Geez it is stick up for Bill day, you are so misinformed, he recently put down a Government adviser to the USA because he did not agree with him, I have no formal education about matters but I get attacked for this, you are so one sided Farside.
    Farside
    31st Oct 2020
    1:07pm
    Not defending Gates but balancing the points of view. If not buying into your Eugenics conspiracy and Gates is evil incarnate makes me one sided then meh, I can live with it.
    Hardenough
    29th Oct 2020
    2:55pm
    Well, if they want to vaccinate younger people this is good, they are the mainly carriers, transmit to the older people and kaput you are death, if all of them are vaccinated we have no virus, so we don't need it, since I became 65yo I also became a liability for the governments, so, I would like to propose something: lets us to be free to take our decisions on where we want to age, there is many countries where cost of living is more cheap than here (less than half) let them go without any penalties, a pensioner cost to the government just for the pension: The rates for a full Age Pension for Australian residents for the period 20 March 2020 to 19 September 2020 are listed below: Single: $944.30 per fortnight (approximately $24,554 per year) Couple (each): $711.80 per fortnight (approximately $18,507 per year) plus medicals ($45,000-+) so is about $65,000+ a year.
    So, if they give me $50,000 a year I will take care of the rest, (medicals, rents, transport, meals, clothing, etc.) and for sure I will be very happy and the government will save a substantial amount of money, because if I got ill I will not need any medical assistance which is the most expensive part of the deal. so we have a deal you shining ass mongrels'?
    Baby Huey
    29th Oct 2020
    3:12pm
    It appears to me that given the attatudes and comments about older persons here in Australia and around the world in gerneral and especially since covid by governments of all political flavors their strategies seem to paralell Hitler's in the late 1930s when order all persons over 70, including Germans, to be killed as they were considered to be useless and a burden on the facist society.
    One only has to look Daniel Andrews in Victoria. He killed about 800 aged persons who were locked up in nursing homes. Sieg Hiel Chairman Dan.
    Farside
    29th Oct 2020
    5:31pm
    Huey it's not surprising the world looks like that to you given your comment. It would be surprising if you thought differently.
    Buggsie
    29th Oct 2020
    3:16pm
    Read all of the coments - some nutters put there! My daughter is an anti vaxxer and sprouts all this rubbish about various government conspiracies, we don't talk much anymore as I believe that she has placed my grand daughters at risk of some horrible illnesses. I say - BRING OUT THE VACCINE AND I WILL BE FIRST IN LINE!
    KSS
    29th Oct 2020
    3:47pm
    I agree Buggsie. Lots of tin-foil hats here.
    Lookfar
    29th Oct 2020
    4:05pm
    Buggsie and KSS, what is a tin foil hat and how is it relevant, - in practice, to this discussion?

    Why does it have to be compulsory, - please feel free, - either of you, to advance the exact arguments as to why Vaccination must be compulsory, - or admit that it does not need to be compulsory, given the very cogent aguments above that it does not need to be compulsory, - eg, if you are vaccinated you can no longer be infected, so no one else needs to be vaccinated unless they want to be.

    If it is just a Control everybody else, argument, I suggest dropping it Right Now.
    Sophie
    29th Oct 2020
    11:27pm
    .

    What a ridiculous suggestion!! Have you noticed there is a pandemic sweeping the world? When suitable vaccines are ready...it must be COMPULSORY for everyone to have it, unless for health reasons (proven by a doctor) that they cannot.

    .
    Farside
    30th Oct 2020
    12:24am
    not going to happen Sophie. Vax, if available, will be recommended but will not be compulsory. Roughly 20% are not interested, and when it all becomes real I cannot imagine more than half of 18-40 year olds lining up for a vax that does little for them.
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    2:14am
    Buggsie, I bet your grandchildren are very health and bright too, I have known many unvaccinated children, especially years ago, and ther were no health issues like they have now. Can I suggest you read some of the info your daughter provides, it may surprise you.
    Steff
    30th Oct 2020
    9:52am
    Go for it Biggsie you can have my share of this hastily developed Poison
    patti
    29th Oct 2020
    4:06pm
    I'm sure we'll be able to access them if we pay!!
    Lookfar
    29th Oct 2020
    4:19pm
    Who are you suggesting we shoid Pay Patti??
    panos
    29th Oct 2020
    5:23pm
    The drug companies of course...
    Fred1943
    29th Oct 2020
    5:45pm
    I do not understand why the health authorities are not telling all Aussies to ensure vitamin D levels are maintained at high level. It is a known fact that over 90% of people that died because of COVID-19 were very low on vitamin D, which means their immunity to disease is low.Older folk should take vitamin D3 supplement capsules daily and statistics show that if you are later infected with Covid 19 the symptoms will not be as bad and you are very unlikely to die....Why is this info not being broadcast?
    Maggie
    29th Oct 2020
    11:44pm
    Please share your source of information. It's a pretty big claim seeing that in third world countries resources are scarce for testing.
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    2:17am
    Yes Fred, and also zinc and Vitamin C. The reason it is not broadcasted is they want everyone to have the vaccine so those invested make trillions of dollars.A sick society makes big pharm wheel bigger and bigger.
    Farside
    30th Oct 2020
    2:49pm
    Maggie, bunch of references at factcheck.org including the report from Indonesia. https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/does-vitamin-d-protect-against-covid-19/

    And 17,300 links here if you want to check out source
    https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=vitamin+D+covid19&btnG=
    Maggie
    29th Oct 2020
    6:52pm
    Look far, If I can guilt trip any parent, or anyone for that matter, into having a vaccination against any of the horrible and sometimes fatal consequences of measles, roseola, mumps, chickenpox, small pox, whooping cough, polio and TB I shall feel I have served some purpose in my life.
    micreen
    29th Oct 2020
    7:30pm
    Strange that there are no comments in support of HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE, a proven life saver, if used in correct dosage and with correct supplements eg. Zinc. Surely this remendy is certainly better than a false hope that scientists have at this time that a vaccine will be found in time to save us oldies and others. Why is it banned in this country ? Is it $$$ or ego or just plain dumb assed politicians and scientists. Listen to the medicos from around the world.
    Farside
    29th Oct 2020
    8:07pm
    trials to prove efficacy have not yet been completed and published.
    https://www.svhm.org.au/newsroom/news/australian-led-clinical-drug-trial-investigates-way-to-safeguard-healthcare-workers-against-covid-19
    KSS
    29th Oct 2020
    9:30pm
    Probably micreen because the latest research does not support its use. HCQ does not prevent infection and has little to no effect as a treatment for most people.
    *Loloften*
    29th Oct 2020
    11:16pm
    Not surprised. It's well known that "Depopulation" has been one of the main topics for past few yrs during our World Leaders' forums. Seniors are living much longer than they used to, as are disabled ppl (thx to modern medicine/procedures). BUT, & so obviously, "they" both deplete the vast majority of governments "bottom line/surpluses" re: unplanned increases in OAPs + Disability costs/pensions. They will be the 1st "to go," as have been during this latest coronavirus.
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    2:18am
    Yep Bill Gates and his Eugenics mates.
    Sophie
    29th Oct 2020
    11:19pm
    .

    Quote: “they may be pushed to the back of the queue, as the vaccines have not yet been tested on older people.”

    That information from Brendan Murphy is not up to date. Two days ago AstraZeneca said the Oxford vaccine being developed in the UK produces an immune response in both younger, older and elderly adults. The discovery is... older people got a very positive immune response from the vaccine.

    So it appears that elderly people are also being tested.

    .
    *Loloften*
    30th Oct 2020
    2:15am
    If so, latest news is for oldies in Aged Care only.....to pacify/alleviate Fed Govnm'ts neglect for so very many yrs.
    Maggie
    30th Oct 2020
    12:35am
    Farside, you claim that 18 to 40 yr olds will have no interest in a vaccine that does little for them.
    Just how do you know how much a vaccine will do?
    It may save their lives!!!
    Further, even if this group generally doesn't suffer too much from being afflicted, the projected later problems with heart and lungs, and possibly other organs, are surely worth guarding against.
    It's possible that the next generations could be so affected that "old age " will need to be redefined.
    Farside
    30th Oct 2020
    3:10pm
    Maggie. I have no idea how much a vaccine will do but presumably one must have some efficacy to be approved for use. You think 18-40 year olds will be very interested in being vaccinated for a disease that has complications for a very small proportion. It may be effective and it may not. Without understating the consequences for those affected, the proportion experiencing hospitalisation, so called "long covid" or permanent organ problems is low. This is why the Imperial vaccine challenge trial plans to recruit volunteers between the ages of 18 and 30 as they have the least health risks from covid19.

    Compare cases and deaths in Australia at
    https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-current-situation-and-case-numbers#cases-admitted-to-hospitals
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    2:20am
    This vaccine is being rushed too fast, we need more research and proper evidence that it will 100% be effective and 100% safe. This will not happen because they only have to be 50% effective to pass and no one will put two and two together when someone gets sick they will never blame the vaccine, too much at stake.
    Maggie
    30th Oct 2020
    10:28am
    Where does the information that vaccines have to be only 50% effective?
    And have you not heard or read about the scientists saying over and again that they are NOT going to put out a vaccine until they are sure it's safe.
    Re your earlier comment about someone's grandchildren being just fine without the vaccinations. That's true but they will probably have a really horrible time if they ever get any of the sicknesses that vaccines guard against.
    I speak from experience having had a number of what they call childhood sicknesses and having been close to death- because like most people of my age the vaccines were just not there yet.
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    5:56pm
    I tried to find the information for you that I read awhile ago but cannot because it is very hard to google things about vaccines, a lot of it is blocked.
    I will never believe that ALL vaccines have made a difference to children's health, why the increase in so many diseases? And if a unvaccinated child does get a disease they have MORE of a chance of fighting it off because their immune system is not overloaded with stimulates and toxic ingredients, there is no proof that some vaccination have been protecting children.
    Maggie
    30th Oct 2020
    7:08pm
    Incognito, I just can't be bothered to give you examples of the benefits of vaccinations for children. Why do you think the WHO tries so hard to see that these vaccinations are delivered to children all over the world. They have been doing this for years and years.

    Please just Google the sicknesses I have mentioned and their complications.
    You don't have immunity to them unless you ARE immunized. It's the vaccine which "trains" the body to create antibodies to fight the illnesses.

    You are not an expert in medical matters nor are you a dietician. What you have shown yourself to be is a conspiracy theorist.
    Please don't keep on with this rubbish.
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    7:25pm
    I WILL keep up with MY OPINIONS and what I see as an important job to make sure everyone QUESTIONS everything. There is still NO PROOF that you have immunity to ANY disease from vaccines. It is just a theory. You can call me a conspiracy theorist if it makes you feel better but this is what you call anyone who thinks out of the box and it is the latest weapon from Big Pharma to convince everyone that they are doing everything for the better of mankind, safely and efficiently which they are not. The only research that is done is when there is money involved. You can use homeopathy to stimulate your immune system too but there is not enough money in that because they are cheap to produce. Even the Queen and her son Charles use it and Charles was able to fight off covid within a week or two. And don't come back with there is no scientific evidence that homeopathy does not work because there is a lot of research that has been done.
    You will just have to agree to disagree Maggie, have a nice day.
    Lucca
    30th Oct 2020
    11:38pm
    You've got a lot of mouth for someone who knows zilch. So you think it is your "important job" to make everyone question everything? Since when are you an expert on anything?
    So if the Queen and Charles use something, then it is A OK!!! So funny that someone could make such an ignorant comment. Theey both use silk toilet paper, are you going to use same. LOL
    jaycee1
    30th Oct 2020
    9:13am
    Reminds me a bit about a movie called "Logan's Run" where once people reached 35 they were put to death. The world was run by computers who told people that they were being "renewed" and they would come back - for a long time people believed them. But, you always have rebels, who discovered the truth and brought Utopia down.
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    5:57pm
    Go the rebels, if it was not for them we would already be robots lol
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    8:40pm
    For those interested here is a good article to read about how effective the flu vaccine is and I don't believe the covid one will be much different,you need to download the pdf file and you will also see all the resources that information is derived from, file is safe, I checked:

    https://physiciansforinformedconsent.org/flu-vaccine/
    Lucca
    30th Oct 2020
    11:31pm
    NOPE, not interested.
    Farside
    31st Oct 2020
    1:13pm
    Looks like an unbiased source, no thanks..
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2020
    7:16am
    Thank you for thta, Incognito. Assures me that my gut instincts were correct. I have repeatedly argued with doctors who say I should have the flu vaccine. I do not and will not. I have long believed, based on my own observations, that those who have it are at greater risk of illness. I haven't ever had a flu vaccination and I haven't had flu in 25 years. Everyone I know who has the vaccination spends half the winter feeling sick!

    Nobody is going to convince me to take a COVID jab. Nobody will convince me that it's safe, no matter how many trials they claim to run. In a tight time frame, and under extraordinary pressures, it is simply not possible to consider every contingency and test on people with other ailments and conditions that it might potentially exacerbate.

    Many vaccinations and medications have been wonderful life-savings God-sends. And many have done great harm. We are seeing a terrifyingly rapid increase in numbers of autistic children, and many claim vaccinations are to blame. I think one would have to be very arrogant or ignorant to believe that doctors know enough to keep us all safe. I've been the victim of their mistakes, and so have most people I know - at one time or another.

    I still seek medical care when necessary and follow my doctor's advice when it makes sense to me and feels right, but I exercise judgment. I do not operate on blind faith, and I think anyone who does is naive and foolish. Trusting a COVID vaccine would require blind faith.
    Incognito
    30th Oct 2020
    8:41pm
    Also some good reading about covid:
    https://physiciansforinformedconsent.org/covid-19/
    Lucca
    30th Oct 2020
    11:32pm
    NOPE not interested.
    Maggie
    31st Oct 2020
    12:12am
    There you go again Incognito.
    What you need to understand about vaccines is that they trigger the production of antibodies which then gives the receiver immunity.
    People don't just have this immunity in their bodies.
    The British, Portuguese and Dutch sailors and settlers brought with them measles and many other sicknesses then totally unknown in the countries they "discovered". Of course the convicts brought them here too. And wherever they encountered the local people they died in huge numbers because they had no immunity.

    Big pharma makes money out of drugs. All companies work to make money.
    In the case of medicines they can spend millions on developing a drug only to find it doesn't work.

    I totally agree that in some cases especially with opiates they KNOWINGLY promoted drugs which did much harm.

    Yes, there have been tests of drugs in their development . In fact they have to pass tests in order to get approval. Have you not heard of placebos?

    In trials they will give half of the patients the drug they are testing. The other half get a dose of sugar pills for argument' s sake.

    I doubt very much if they would put a drug with only a 50% chance of success on the market.

    Everyone would be looking for something better.

    And please don't put words in my mouth. Nowhere have I mentioned homeopathy.

    As for conspiracy theories I ask myself what the pay off is for concocting way out stories.
    Lookfar
    4th Nov 2020
    3:59pm
    Quite true Maggie that different populations over the world, - when un-connected, can develop immunities to their home diseases, that kill whole societies when they take them to that new place, and should be humbling to those who realise that Alcohol is in that same bracket/category.

    Our aggressive white culture went to America and the Americans there were totally susceptible to alcohol, and despised for it.

    Our Aboriginal folk were likewise, - completely vulnerable, no thousands or so years to get used to it and still a problem, so what did our white forbears do? -

    - Despised the blackfellow because he couldn't hold his drink.. - and then shot them down in thousands.
    BillF2
    31st Oct 2020
    1:33am
    Well, it's come out at long last, and re-stated today by Brett Sutton, Victorian CMO. The medical profession is interested only in a vaccine, and by extension, keeping their mates in the pharmaceutical industry in a very lucrative business. If they were seriously worried about covid-19 right from the start, they would have done everything possible to minimise and eliminate the virus. However, they have done nothing, while convincing State governments to implement lockdowns, social distancing, constant hand washing, etc, and brainwashing the public into believing that a vaccine is the only answer. It has been an amazing, brazen, national and international confidence trick. And they are prepared to let so many people die to maintain this scenario that they can do nothing without a vaccine!
    Now they tell us that the vaccine might not be so good for the oldies, but they are not prepared to look at other solutions. What value the Hippocratic oath?
    Maggie
    31st Oct 2020
    8:51am
    Sorry Bill, I feel very ignorant but I don't understand what you are talking about.

    If you have time please could you put the whole story in a nutshell?
    Lookfar
    31st Oct 2020
    11:51am
    Right on BillF2, and there is a movement coming out of America to protest against the lockdowns, the only thing that works for sure but makes vaccines unnecessary.

    Some folk are, justifably, afraid of Goverments indulging in harsher laws, the which has not actually happened much all over the world, despite Govt always wanting to control more, the average person accepts the lockdown and gets on with life, but the Anti lock down movement justifies the Govt to introduce much harsher laws, the which they have only had the support from the general public when those adherents break the lockdowns.

    So the anti-Lockdown movement is on the side of big Pharma, enforcing the vaccine option, - wheels within wheels Eh!

    PS, don't listen to Maggi, she never follows up the links then pretends ignorance whilst demanding you follow up her links, the which are mainly traditional propaganda.

    We need to keep our options open, big pharma has only one thought, "the shareholders want more money", we the people have other thoughts.

    America has done a wonderful job of stopping the virus,
    ' terrible milestone: More than 9 million Americans have now been infected with the coronavirus.

    Another 90,728 Americans were diagnosed as infected yesterday -- that's more than one every second -- and 1,004 more Americans died, according to The New York Times COVID-19 map and case count.

    (Donny Jr. called that toll of 1,004 dead Americans in just one day "almost nothing.")

    The Times reports that over the past week, there has been an average of 77,865 new cases per day, which is a 42 percent jump from the average two weeks ago and yet another record -- the highest 7-day rate ever.

    That's your nutshell Maggie, - sorry.
    Maggie
    31st Oct 2020
    12:39pm
    Thanks for the nutshell.
    Lookfar I have never posted a link. I have suggested that people look at Google because I don't want to write a book here
    Did you not hear or read about how Donald Trump knew right from the beginning how dangerous this virus is. He told this to a journalist called Crawford. He concealed that knowledge because he said he didn't want the people to panic! And he suggested that Dr Fauci, the leading expert in America, didn't know what he was talking about.

    The scientists who work on vaccines do so to save lives not necessarily just to make money. Any reputable vaccine producer will halt , and consequently delay productionor abandon it if there is a doubt about safety as did the Oxford Astrazeneca team recently.

    Vaccines are important because they do save lives.
    I watched on helplessly with its parents while their baby with small pox died right in front of us.

    My family employed burnt out lepers with noses, fingers and toes eaten away - no one else wanted them because they looked so awful.
    They are still looking for a vaccine for leprosy.

    Before the measles vaccine was available, all 4 children of one of the workers I knew personally, died of it.

    And I sit here and read all the crap from cossetted people who know very little about what they are discussing with so much authority.

    And no I do not claim to be an expert, so don't come back at me with that.
    Suze
    31st Oct 2020
    12:53pm
    I want what Trump got ... he seems to have got cured.
    Maggie
    31st Oct 2020
    1:07pm
    Strange isn't it that he didn't give a stuff about trying to protect his wife and child and his staff.

    Luckily they were healthy and young to recover over a longer period of time.

    God knows what problems they may face down the line though.
    Lookfar
    31st Oct 2020
    4:38pm
    Suzie, - what do you think he got? blood from the sacrificed children disappeared in the 480 cages? - how could we ever prove that?

    We don't want that nor do we want that to be allowed.

    Happy to sacrifice Trump rather than innocent children, - if that is what happened.
    Lookfar
    31st Oct 2020
    4:10pm
    Hi , Maggie, I do not believe for a moment that you haven't a good heart.
    As the discussion progresses we learn more about each other, and the whole situation.
    Just one of the elements is the Hierarchical element, - so well expressed in that Trump knew so well to not cause Panic that he excised all preventative measures, - a decision that lead to America being the worst affected country in the World in it's treatment of Covid.

    This despite the early Chinese officials hiding their Covid, - thus causing their early disaster, - the which they controlled, admittedly a bit Draconian, but surely appropriate, and one can only hope those early bloated Bureaucrats in China get their Come Uppance, although Trumps Lackeys do not seem to be getting theirs.

    I would suggest we all work together in solving this problem, - our so called Rulers do not seem to be able to cope, the States had to overrule the federal govt. to achieve lock-down, border closures etc, as the fed. gov. wanted to keep the economy humming despite whatever deaths it may cause, - a typical share holder in Multi-Billion company's response.

    But not a Human response.

    As you talk about 4 kids dying from Measles, (a totally nurseable disease that should not be fatal) we are confronted world wide with a pandemic that may well be a botched attempt at population control, - like SARS 1 but which killed people too quickly to allow it to spread, - No vaccine ever made..

    So one can be worried, Covid-19, also called SARS 2, may never have a Vaccine, except Home diet, lifestyle, organic food, etc. and if this is the case, far better we try to meet those requirements as quickly as possible, - eschew artificialy fertilised, sprayed, etc. vegies, fruit etc, look after the Biology in the soil, take individual responsibility for our future, - nobody else will, - particularly Big Pharma.
    Maggie
    31st Oct 2020
    5:48pm
    Your response is condescending and certainly uninformed.
    The parents of the children with measles were totally ignorant about the disease. Since the early symptoms of measles ressemble those of the common cold the parents thought that was what they had. Measles' spots are clearly visible on white skin. Not so on black skin.
    These people didn't have a thermometer,
    Their efforts failed to bring the fever down. They certainly had no aspirin. Yes, that was before even cossetted people had dear little bottles of panadol for children! The nearest hospital was 170 miles away and a terrifying place to unsophisticated people, so they tried their traditional medicine. It failed them.
    Who brought the disease into the area - white people.
    Maggie
    31st Oct 2020
    6:34pm
    You are right Look far. We do need to look after ourselves.

    We need to shout loud enough for our govt. to actually DO something about the environment .

    And yes it would be just marvellous if there was enough organic food to feed us all at a price we can afford.

    There are plenty of hungry people already who when they have money to spend are going to buy the cheapest.

    The idea of a universal payout is our best chance of alleviating poverty and homelessness.

    The resources of our planet as we know it are not infinite.

    Therefore the notion of a trickle down economy makes no sense

    Surely we are smart enough to create something that does work.
    Farside
    31st Oct 2020
    8:33pm
    a couple of vaccines were developed for SARS however the virus disappeared before the vaccines were approved. One had an unfortunate side effect of amplifying the pathology when exposed to the real virus. A Chinese subunit vaccine was successfully used on mice to show less viral particles in lungs. Seems it is not easy for a vaccine for SARS2 as upper respiratory is different to when it gets into lungs.
    Life experience
    1st Nov 2020
    5:44pm
    Lockfar you are way out of touch with reality.
    Life experience
    1st Nov 2020
    5:27pm
    How are they going to train the nurses. At present the immunisation course costs hundreds to do and many weekends of study. They make it make it free and simpler.
    Life experience
    1st Nov 2020
    5:42pm
    This virus has divided people all round the world. The ones that believe It’s not dangerous and the ones that believe it is. The people who believe in masks and those who don’t. The ones who want the vaccine and those who don’t.
    As a health care worker I wish everyone did understand the seriousness of this virus. I know of someone right now who gave it to his parents and they are very sick. I have also lost a family member to the virus. And my friends friend is in ICU right now ,20 years old , not medical history in Europe.
    I am pro masks and pro Vaccines. Every health care worker I know wants the vaccine for themselves, kids and family. If I didn’t get it I wouldn’t be able to work in Health. Also I know I will not be allowed to travel. This rule has existed for a long time where you can’t enter certain country’s without vaccination certificate. Nothing new.
    One thing I have learned from this virus is it’s shown me who the sensible people are. And I’ve realised how many selfish people exist in society.
    It has been an eye opener and humans are often their own worst enemy’s.
    Maggie
    1st Nov 2020
    5:57pm
    Thank you for taking the time to write. We need more people like you who are at the front line in the hope that some of the painfully sad people who have decided that they are qualified to tell the rest of us what to do and who to believe.
    Every time someone takes it upon themselves to spread, hearsay, and odd conspiracy theories we need to challenge them for their qualifications.
    Please may I ask you, for the record, that you are "trained" to accept the medical research and blindly follow instructions as claimed by one very arrogant and very ignorant writer to these pages.
    Lookfar
    2nd Nov 2020
    10:15am
    Life experience, what difference does it make if one says,
    Life Experience, or Lockfar, you are way out of touch with reality?
    There is no back up information, no logic, no proof, - it is just empty words.

    So you had some experience with medical something, I worked full time as a nurse for 5 years and did the first uni year of a Medicine degree, so I probably know a lot more than you on the medical side, so does that make you less in touch?

    Or was it just a cheap shot because I said something you haven't thought about?

    At this time, we have a prime minister in Australia that did not believe in Lockdown etc, and has slyly attempted to undermine those who take the virus seriously, - it is always, imho, worth trying to find out where people who have an opinion, got it from, and shining the light of an agile mind on where things come from is always educational, and the opposite to barfing up insults.
    Willie
    1st Nov 2020
    6:26pm
    No vaccine required. Just better treatment to the very fewvwho get this mild common cold.
    Maggie
    1st Nov 2020
    7:01pm
    Dear mistaken Willie. There have been only 907 deaths from this virus in Australia. I say "only because this country has given the BEST care.
    There have been 1,195,586 deaths world wide that we know about. There will have been plenty more in 3rd world countries which have not been reported.

    46,085,254 have survived so far but there are longer term issues with heart, lungs and other organs. Many survivors will suffer horribly down the line.

    Go back in your little shell and pretend there's no virus at all

    Just please don't post your ignorant messages here.

    1st Nov 2020
    9:11pm
    Happy to let a younger person have my vaccine dose. No way will I be risking letting them inject poorly-tested crap into me. I don't have flu vaccines. Everyone I know who does gets sick, but I haven't had flu for 25 years.

    If I die of natural causes, that's fine. I do NOT want to die from a man-made poison, and I definitely do not trust that any COVID vaccine will be safe. I'll rely on sensible precautions and if I get it, I'll do all the usual things to fight infection and I'll let nature take its course.
    Maggie
    1st Nov 2020
    9:57pm
    You keep on telling us the same thing. If you don't want the vaccine don't have it.
    Any vaccine used in this country will have been thoroughly tested, and is surely preferable to possibly dying, or living with lasting complications.
    Lookfar
    2nd Nov 2020
    10:34am
    Right on Youngagain, Australia often serves as a pilot testing ground for new products as it is relatively isolated from other countries, the utmost vigilance should be exercised by us all, - I don't trust the big companies' testing one iota.
    Maggie
    2nd Nov 2020
    11:19am
    That's interesting Lookfar. Can you please tell us what exactly is the benefit of our geographical distance from other countries for testing drugs?
    We are one of the most cosmopolitan countries in the world.
    Lookfar
    2nd Nov 2020
    3:46pm
    But we were not, 40 years ago, Maggie, but somehow the tradition keeps trying to re-assert itself, - old memes perhaps? - does anyone listen? - saw one today about invisible masks becoming Available in Australia, - above your reply, - although they move around all the time, - nowadays I suspect they just change the name to the Country, but earlier times - yes a 'syndrome', so like Calicivirus, 'escaped' from high security lab in victoria, - killed lotsa rabbits, but now the rabbits coming back up here, anyway.

    So, yes, but not so much benefit now, - now it seems to be more a habit or such, - what do you want to prove?
    Maggie
    2nd Nov 2020
    10:26pm
    I am not trying to prove anything. I was curious about your statement which it seems may have been accurate 40 years ago.
    A vaccine for Covid is being sought and tested in many different countries simultaneously so I would find further discussion superfluous.
    What I don't understand is why vaccines developed years ago and proved beyond doubt to have saved possibly millions of lives are seen to be so dangerous by some.
    There's so much hearsay : people know the great aunt of someone somewhere who got sick....
    And yes I know there have been some bad reactions and feel desperately sorry about this.
    I am now done with this correspondence, having a great many interesting things to do.
    Koro
    3rd Nov 2020
    8:39am
    Listening to past Prime Minister Tony Abbott in regards to older population and covid? Let's hope all citizens are given the appropriate consideration once the vaccine is in and safe for all ages.

    4th Nov 2020
    7:47am
    Unbelievable how illogical some people's thinking is. A COVID vaccine will protect you from COVID, but only if EVERYBODY ELSE has it?

    We should force everyone to accept the risk of having the shot, because those who do have it are at risk if others don't have it?

    So you don't think it works then? Why on earth would you bother to have it if you don't trust it to protect you?

    How is ME having a vaccine that you apparently think does not work going to help protect YOU from a disease you have been vaccinated against?


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