Victoria weathers the second wave

Only Vietnam and Hong Kong have done as well as Victorians.

people on a melbourne street

Michael Toole, Burnet Institute

Of the 215 nations and territories that have reported COVID-19 cases, 120 have experienced clear second waves or late first waves that began in July or later. That’s according to the Worldometer global database, which sources data from national ministries of health and the World Health Organization.

Of these 120, only six have definitively emerged from their second wave: Australia, South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, Vietnam and Singapore. I am not including New Zealand, as the series of clusters that arose in Auckland in mid-August never evolved into a clear second wave.

Ultimately, Victoria has performed extremely well by international standards. Only Vietnam and Hong Kong have enjoyed comparable success in quashing the second wave. Victorians’ sacrifice during lockdown has left Australia well placed to sustain very low numbers of cases through the coming summer.

A grim global context
Any comparison between Australia and other countries takes place amid a grim global context. The worldwide tally of cumulative cases is adding one million new cases every three or four days. On Wednesday, of the 100 countries with the highest total reported cases, just seven reported fewer than 50 new cases: Australia, China, Nigeria, Singapore, Ivory Coast, Zambia and Senegal. The same day, France and the United Kingdom each reported more than 26,000 new cases, and 20 European countries posted all-time daily record numbers.

Some European countries, such as the Czech Republic, Poland and Georgia, are now reporting daily case numbers 25–30 times higher than during their first waves.

Europe and North America face enormous challenges to control their outbreaks as winter looms and pandemic fatigue sets in. But already there are signs of decisive measures including a national lockdown in Ireland — very similar to Melbourne’s — and night curfews in Paris, seven other French cities, Brussels, Athens and Rome. Their current struggles stand in stark contrast to Australia’s situation.

Israel’s second wave came early
Which countries offer the most instructive comparison with Australia? Let’s start with Israel, one of the first countries to experience a second wave far more severe than the first.

Israel was also a founding member of the long-forgotten First Movers Group, comprising Austria, Denmark, Norway, Greece, the Czech Republic, Israel, Singapore, Australia and New Zealand. Each member nation implemented restrictions early in the pandemic, and held a virtual summit in May to share tips about controlling the virus. Since then, every member except New Zealand has experienced a major second wave.

Israel’s second wave was largely caused by transmission among high school and middle school students, and an uncoordinated exit from the first lockdown. By the end of May, citizens were allowed to go to shopping centres and community gatherings, despite a growing resurgence of cases. During the Israeli summer there was minimal enforcement of face mask use, and moderate restrictions were reimposed on 17 July.

Cases continued to surge, prompting a second lockdown introduced on 18 September. This included restricting people’s movement to within 1km from their homes. The mishandling of the first wave had eroded public trust in the government, and morale was seemingly bleak during what was the first national lockdown in the world in response to a second wave. While cases have declined in the past few weeks the country has not yet emerged, with daily new case numbers still between 800 and 1100.

National lockdowns not essential for success
Four of the five Asian countries that have emerged from their second wave demonstrate that lockdowns aren’t an all-or-nothing choice. There are intermediate options, but they only work if certain conditions are met. These include effective testing, contact tracing and isolation capacities; a culture of wearing masks and following public health directives; electronic contact tracing; and selective local restrictions such as closing bars, restaurants and places of worship.

Vietnam was one of the first countries to contain its first wave and did not record a single death until July. Measures included early border closures, aggressive testing and tracing, and enforced quarantine of all cases and their contacts. This may not be an option in less authoritarian countries. Vietnam did have a national lockdown for a two-week period in April.

Clear communication with the public was a crucial element of Vietnam’s response. The government used a range of creative ways to spread messages about symptoms, prevention and testing sites, including via state media outlets, social media, text messages and, famously, a viral song about the importance of handwashing.


Vietnam’s viral video.

After 99 days of zero daily cases, Vietnam’s first community transmission case was reported in Da Nang on 25 July. It started with a man who tested positive without any travel history, and it’s still unclear how he contracted the virus.

By 4 September, Vietnam’s health ministry had confirmed 632 new cases and 35 deaths. As during the first wave, blanket testing was conducted in Da Nang, transport in and out of the city was cancelled, and bars and restaurants closed. The same local measures were implemented in certain neighbourhoods in Hanoi when new cases were identified. The country has not reported any community transmission since early September.

Besides enforced quarantine, Japan, Hong Kong and South Korea have mostly followed the same strategy as Vietnam and haven’t imposed blanket lockdowns. After two months of near zero daily cases, South Korea experienced a series of spikes linked to bars, nightclubs and karaoke venues, with a major surge in August linked to a large church. The response has been characterised by robust decentralised testing, contact tracing and isolation, and a registration system at entertainment venues based on QR codes. However, the country is not yet out of the woods, reporting 50–90 cases a day.

Likewise, Japan continues to report 400–700 cases a day. But Hong Kong is approaching the same level as Victoria, reporting between five and 18 cases a day.

Singapore is a very different case. It has by far the highest per capita number of cases in Asia. With a population of just 5.8 million, the country has reported 57,921 cases – more than twice the number of Australia (which has more than four times the population).

Between mid-April and mid-June, Singapore experienced a massive spike in cases mostly among overseas migrant workers. On 19 June, the country eased restrictions opening restaurants and gyms. In the seven subsequent weeks leading up to 8 August, Singapore reported 13,096 new cases or 267 per day. Cases have subsequently declined to single digits, comparable to Victoria.The Conversation

Michael Toole, Professor of International Health, Burnet Institute

This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons licence. Read the original article.

How has the pandemic impacted you and your local community? Do you think that the Victorian lockdown has had a positive or negative effect?

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    COMMENTS

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    Knight Templar
    26th Oct 2020
    4:21pm
    How convenient to compare Victoria with other countries rather than with other Australian states and territories.

    As the original articles was published in 'The Conversation', it is little wonder that the author is reluctant to expose the grim situation in Victoriastan compared with the rest of Australia? That would present a far more valid comparison.
    Winston Smith
    26th Oct 2020
    4:45pm
    There is no grim situation in Victoria. One of the grimmest challenges we face is morons wanting to score political points out of this. The virus doesn't care who you vote for, but it loves people who don't want to follow the rules.
    Tanker
    27th Oct 2020
    7:57am
    Well said Winston. It appears that most criticism of Victoria is coming from either a political motivation or from those interstate whose views are heavily influenced by the Murdoch press.
    Yes serious mistakes were made in Victoria and things were in a bit of a muddle due to so many things being done in such a short time frame.
    The fact is, however, that strong positive leadership with clarity of requirements clearly stated showed the way forward.
    The emphasis was on the health of the community as a whole which meant that there has been damage to the economy but surely health takes precedence over wealth. It is sad that some have suffered on the business side of things and it is also sad that people have died but the virus did the damage not the messenger.
    Winston Smith
    26th Oct 2020
    4:48pm
    I came here to predict some idiots arriving to try to play politics, but one of them beat me here. Dan Andrews' achievement is world class. But the Liberal Party and it's disciples can be guaranteed to keep being miserable, whingy, whiny complainers and knockers. No help whatsoever in combating the pandemic.
    Knight Templar
    26th Oct 2020
    4:51pm
    Never let facts get in the way of your left-wing ideology.
    Winston Smith
    26th Oct 2020
    4:53pm
    What facts?
    Steff
    26th Oct 2020
    5:15pm
    Go and STAND WITH DAN with you other Lefty idiots Winston.
    OJ21
    26th Oct 2020
    5:23pm
    The feds will take the limelight on the world stage for controlling the second wave and play politics on the local stage.
    Greg
    26th Oct 2020
    5:29pm
    The PEOPLE spread the virus not the government.

    The political points being made through this is disgusting, not the time for it, the time is for the opposition to be supporting whatever it takes to bring the virus under control which we now have.

    That opposition leader in Vic has just, day after day, been negative the whole time. I know that's his job normally but not with this.
    Russell
    26th Oct 2020
    5:51pm
    It appears that there are a lot of the Federal Governments supporters that have forgotten the facts about this virus. At a senate commission the current Federal Government Health Minister Greg Hunt admitted that he was notified by the WHO about this pandemic (the same time as every other country was notified) but like typical NLP he took no action until after 21st January, that is 3 weeks of sitting on his arse and doing nothing about it and then typical LNP only closed the borders to the Chinese and left the back door wide open and allowed the virus to enter Australia via Europe. It is and always has been the Federal Governments responsibility for customs and quarantine for all international travellers but instead the LNP duck shoved the responsibility onto the states. The LNP Federal Government has failed in its responsibility to the people of Australia to start with and then it is the arrogant self righteous idiots that have failed to abide by the restrictions that has kept this virus going. As a comparison, look at Thailand with a country smaller than NSW in area and a population of over 65 million (2.5 times more than Australia) and it has only recorded 3800 confirmed cases with 59 deaths and that is because they acted immediately they were notified and they had strict restrictions that the only ones that tried to get smart and ignore the rules were some arrogant westerners but they soon found out that they had to do the right thing and now Thailand is starting to open its borders to international tourists. They has not been a second wave in Thailand because they controlled the first wave with very strict rules.
    Winston Smith
    26th Oct 2020
    6:14pm
    Things went wrong in many places.

    We could start with an idiot PM who allowed potentially infected people back into the country and chose to put them in the middle of our two biggest cities, rather than somewhere more removed from major population centres, or even offshore processing, with no guidance to the state governments he handed it over to at incredibly short notice. And the people in hotel quarantine who broke the rules. The sheer bad luck that meant the sex mad returning travellers in Melbourne were infected. People who broke the rules in other places. Many others.

    It’s worth noting that Scott has recognised (but not admitted to the fact) that putting returning travellers in the middle of our biggest cities was dumb, because he’s putting the latest lot in a place way outside Darwin.

    But rusted on, whingy, whiny Lib lovers choose to place all the blame on Dan.
    popster
    26th Oct 2020
    6:37pm
    That's right praise the man who caused the entire fiasco in Victoria. Evidence has not finished with this narcissistic lying dictator.
    Winston Smith
    26th Oct 2020
    7:48pm
    But he's a really nice dictator popster. He doesn't stop you posting rude comments about him on the Internet.

    I've seen a really caring man who has worked well over a hundred days in a row, successfully controlling a pandemic outbreak. It really frustrates the Lib lovers.
    Rosret
    26th Oct 2020
    8:50pm
    Winston are you Dan in disguise?
    He has gone to extensive lengths to stop the Victorian people from speaking. From massive fines to curfews and restrictive travel. Victorians have been imprisoned for months on end.
    Its easy to lockdown a State - its far more difficult to manage the virus and the economy.
    Its not over yet however the Victorian Premier of 2020 will go down in history as Australia's worst Premier.
    I am glad he has your loyalty - he probably needs a friend. Everyone else is wondering how they are going to manage going forward from here.
    Alan
    27th Oct 2020
    9:13am
    How convenient to ignore the fact that the other states managed to keep the virus with the returnees. Only in Victoria did they let it escape into the community and produce a second wave. That took some ineptitude. At the inquiry into the fiasco with the security guards and the escape of the COVID19 virus into the community at large, the Health Minister was conveniently thrown under the bus and other staff/ministers conveniently have forgotten who took the decision not to employ police to secure the hotels but poorly trained security guards, who are mostly recent arrivals in Australia and did not have the knowledge or authority to restrict access to the returnees. In a literal sense some did the wrong thing and the virus escaped into the community. The blame for this lies with those who made the decision to employ them in the fiorst place.

    The draconian measures then needed to get it under control have subsequently done enormous damage to the Victorian and Australian economy.

    If this is world class performance by a Premier I would hate to see what would have happened by a considerably worse performance.
    Winston Smith
    27th Oct 2020
    9:49am
    Alan- I repeat, Things went wrong in many places.

    We could start with an idiot PM who allowed potentially infected people back into the country and chose to put them in the middle of our two biggest cities, rather than somewhere more removed from major population centres, or even offshore processing, with no guidance to the state governments he handed it over to at incredibly short notice. And the people in hotel quarantine who broke the rules. The sheer bad luck that meant the sex mad returning travellers in Melbourne were infected. People who broke the rules in other places. Many others.

    It’s worth noting that Scott has recognised (but not admitted to the fact) that putting returning travellers in the middle of our biggest cities was dumb, because he’s putting the latest lot in a place way outside Darwin.

    But rusted on, whingy, whiny Lib lovers choose to place all the blame on Dan. That's obviously purely political, and quite illogical.
    john
    28th Oct 2020
    1:37pm
    Well Winston , your with Dan, but you can't help it, you read this, YLC , and watch the ABC continually I'd say, and I'll bet you hate the American President too?

    You realise that Dan Andrews should be prosecuted under his own laws of industrial manslaughter!
    Young
    26th Oct 2020
    5:15pm
    What caused the second wave???you are praising the government that started the fire.
    Comparison with other states???
    Greg
    26th Oct 2020
    5:26pm
    "the government that started the fire"

    Actually it was the people in quarantine who started the fire by not doing the right thing. What part do those initial ones play in this?

    And the point still remains that we have managed to squash the virus in Vic and Australia to a very low level while still having an economy that is working, albeit slowly. Far better than say where the moron is in the USA, far more deaths, far more cases and an economy that is worse than ours too....a double whammy from the moron.
    Placido1
    26th Oct 2020
    5:35pm
    Totally wrong, see my post re Victoria.
    Winston Smith
    26th Oct 2020
    6:13pm
    Things went wrong in many places.

    We could start with an idiot PM who allowed potentially infected people back into the country and chose to put them in the middle of our two biggest cities, rather than somewhere more removed from major population centres, or even offshore processing, with no guidance to the state governments he handed it over to at incredibly short notice. And the people in hotel quarantine who broke the rules. The sheer bad luck that meant the sex mad returning travellers in Melbourne were infected. People who broke the rules in other places. Many others.

    It’s worth noting that Scott has recognised (but not admitted to the fact) that putting returning travellers in the middle of our biggest cities was dumb, because he’s putting the latest lot in a place way outside Darwin.

    But rusted on, whingy, whiny Lib lovers choose to place all the blame on Dan.
    Rosret
    26th Oct 2020
    8:54pm
    Greg it was because the people in quarantine couldn't be trusted that was why the ADF and police were supposed to be in charge. - What actually happened next was criminal.
    Tanker
    27th Oct 2020
    8:00am
    Rosret the ADF and police were NOT supposed to be in charge. That is a story being circulated by those trying to gain political mileage out of what has happened.
    Rosret
    27th Oct 2020
    8:19am
    So an untrained bunch a people labelled as security guards at a cost to the tax payer of $30 million is OK?
    Every other State managed to get it right without giving jobs to the boys. It really must take some doing to rewrite the story so the tribal followers can have blind faith.
    However I wouldn't call this loyalty to 'Labor'. So many Australians, no matter who they vote for, have absolute sympathy for Victorians.
    Sometimes the wrong person is running the show - and this is exactly what has happened.
    Winston Smith
    27th Oct 2020
    9:51am
    Rosret - Your comment is purely political. Try this story again, and tell me where I have rewritten anything...

    Things went wrong in many places.

    We could start with an idiot PM who allowed potentially infected people back into the country and chose to put them in the middle of our two biggest cities, rather than somewhere more removed from major population centres, or even offshore processing, with no guidance to the state governments he handed it over to at incredibly short notice. And the people in hotel quarantine who broke the rules. The sheer bad luck that meant the sex mad returning travellers in Melbourne were infected. People who broke the rules in other places. Many others.

    It’s worth noting that Scott has recognised (but not admitted to the fact) that putting returning travellers in the middle of our biggest cities was dumb, because he’s putting the latest lot in a place way outside Darwin.

    But rusted on, whingy, whiny Lib lovers choose to place all the blame on Dan.
    Placido1
    26th Oct 2020
    5:30pm
    Victoria has done an outstanding job managing this second wave. Unhelped by ranting negative opposition and Federal pollies who should know better.

    Comparing Victoria to other countries who had a second wave but did not manage as well as Victoria is perfectly valid. It is the detractors that are waving their ideoligical batons. Did they really want Victoria to fail and thousands fall severely ill with the corresponding deaths? As an observer at times it appeared that was so.

    NSW also had private security guards quarantining returned Australians, some caught coronavirus FACT, luckily there were no super spreaders involved and NSW was very fortunate (an unearned gold standard).

    Winston Smith says it well I guess the monarchist would disagree as it does not suit HIS ideology.
    Winston Smith
    26th Oct 2020
    6:28pm
    Yes. The Libs and their fawning acolytes will be remembered by most of us as the people who spent the whole period of pandemic doing nothing to help stop it, and whinging, and whining, and complaining, and blaming. I can't think of anything useful they have done at all.
    Horace Cope
    26th Oct 2020
    5:38pm
    Am I awake? Andrews and Co started the second wave by not using the quarantine correctly although Nobody know who made the decision to refuse the offer of the ADF and instead use a non-preferred supplier. Somebody knows who is responsible although it could be Anybody as Nobody can recall where the offer came from, who declined it and who wanted to use private security. A comparison to other states and territories should be made, not to other nations. It's not a matter of politics but a sensible comparison of like with like.

    There have been 905 deaths attributed to COVID-19 in Australia with 817 (or 90.3%) of those in Victoria, the bulk of which have been after the quarantine debacle. Victoria has 22.6% of Australia's population and, as can be seen, has had a totally disproportionate number of deaths due to COVID-19. All other states and territories have accepted that there are two parts to COVID-19; health and the economy yet Victoria doesn't get the economy part of the equation.
    Knight Templar
    26th Oct 2020
    5:51pm
    Well said Horace Cope. Most of the above contributors are in denial.
    Winston Smith
    26th Oct 2020
    6:15pm
    Things went wrong in many places.

    We could start with an idiot PM who allowed potentially infected people back into the country and chose to put them in the middle of our two biggest cities, rather than somewhere more removed from major population centres, or even offshore processing, with no guidance to the state governments he handed it over to at incredibly short notice. And the people in hotel quarantine who broke the rules. The sheer bad luck that meant the sex mad returning travellers in Melbourne were infected. People who broke the rules in other places. Many others.

    It’s worth noting that Scott has recognised (but not admitted to the fact) that putting returning travellers in the middle of our biggest cities was dumb, because he’s putting the latest lot in a place way outside Darwin.

    But rusted on, whingy, whiny Lib lovers choose to place all the blame on Dan.
    Farside
    27th Oct 2020
    6:30pm
    Horace, was there any city hosting returned travellers that did not have an escapee? It is a matter of luck. The surprise is that there have not been more breaches. Sure the guards should have been better trained (remember they passed the fed's inadequate training module) however virus has been transmitted among health workers with experience in infection control. Victoria hosted almost 20,000 returned travellers yet there are only two known breaches transmitting virus into the community.

    The real issue is what happened after virus got into a particular cohort in the community that acted unlawfully with recklessness and indifference and then once in community ... the rest is history. You cannot blame government for people acting irresponsibly e.g.:

    - frequent unlawful family gatherings between complex and culturally diverse households
    - people in those households delayed testing and went to work, shops and school while symptomatic
    - did not isolate after testing and waiting for result
    - did not isolate after receiving positive test
    - lied and misspoke to DHHS tracing teams
    - obstructed DHHS and police and refused to test
    - hid positive test results from family and knowingly risked infecting family members who also then spread infection while pre-symptomatic
    Willfish
    26th Oct 2020
    5:46pm
    When the facts change intelligent people change their opinion - dumb people just shout their opinions louder. Well done Victoria in bringing the numbers down and making sure Australia does not spiral out of control like the USA and many other countries. Thank goodness Victoria listened to science and reason rather than the hysteria of some politicians and the usual squeeling pigs.
    Knight Templar
    26th Oct 2020
    5:58pm
    Intelligent people compare apples with apples. Comparison with other Australian states would be more valid but clearly, for left-wing ideologues, it would produce an unacceptable result.

    It seems the only hysteria at issue here, is your Trump Derangement Syndrome.
    Placido1
    26th Oct 2020
    6:02pm
    The Knight Templar sounds like a deranged Trump supporter.
    Winston Smith
    26th Oct 2020
    6:16pm
    Yes Placido1, everything is about lying his pants off to try to score political points.
    Knight Templar
    26th Oct 2020
    6:19pm
    Placido. I was wondering how long it would take before someone would resort to an 'ad hominem' response.

    Clearly, you are only capable of attacking my character rather than answering my argument.
    Young
    26th Oct 2020
    6:13pm
    Spot on Horace.
    Winston Smith
    26th Oct 2020
    6:17pm
    Nope. Things went wrong in many places.

    We could start with an idiot PM who allowed potentially infected people back into the country and chose to put them in the middle of our two biggest cities, rather than somewhere more removed from major population centres, or even offshore processing, with no guidance to the state governments he handed it over to at incredibly short notice. And the people in hotel quarantine who broke the rules. The sheer bad luck that meant the sex mad returning travellers in Melbourne were infected. People who broke the rules in other places. Many others.

    It’s worth noting that Scott has recognised (but not admitted to the fact) that putting returning travellers in the middle of our biggest cities was dumb, because he’s putting the latest lot in a place way outside Darwin.

    But rusted on, whingy, whiny Lib lovers choose to place all the blame on Dan.
    Fedup
    26th Oct 2020
    6:41pm
    It is disgusting that people like Morrison, Frydenberg and Palmer are hammering Labor premieres over their COVID handling in an attempt to distract from their own failures.

    We all know that if Dan Andrews was a Lib, Morrison would be praising his actions and telling everyone that he’s done a great job bringing the Vic outbreaks under control (which he has).
    Winston Smith
    26th Oct 2020
    7:45pm
    Yes. Millions of people will remember how unhelpful and negative the Libs have been during the pandemic.
    floss
    26th Oct 2020
    7:16pm
    Well done Dan you save us in N.S.Wales.
    Rosret
    26th Oct 2020
    8:09pm
    Did you write this article to try and excuse government corruption and mismanagement during COVID?
    Are you trying to excuse the hardest lockdown globally and yet the worst Australian State outcome?
    Are to trying to excuse poor contact tracing and an inability to trust our own citizens to be responsible and self moderating when every other State has managed?
    Are you trying to excuse the BLM protest marches?
    Are you trying to excuse a militant Police force?
    Are you trying to excuse the economic catastrophe that is far from over?
    Are you trying to excuse the mental health crisis?
    What have they done right?
    You may think people will get to the next election and have forgotten? However people won't forget financial ruin. The only way Labor will win the next Victorian election is if the business houses exodus Victoria.
    Winston Smith
    26th Oct 2020
    8:32pm
    ROTFLMAO.

    You are a perfect example of a wilfully ignorant, whingy, whiny, permanently negative Lib lover who has contributed nothing to controlling this pandemic.

    Sorry to tell you this, but Dan's approval rating is still sky high. UNtil the Libs find a positive policy, it will stay there.
    Rosret
    26th Oct 2020
    8:57pm
    Sleep well Winston. No idea what your initials mean. However if you were so confident you would not be spending so much time defending him.
    Winston Smith
    27th Oct 2020
    9:52am
    I'm defending facts and science. You're playing politics.
    Alan
    26th Oct 2020
    8:16pm
    In all the discussion about countries and how they have handled the Pandemic I don't understand why Thailand is ignored. With a population of nearly 70 million, Thailand has had less than 4000 cases of which only 141 are still active. The death rate has also been very low.

    Thailand has a good public health system and is well developed for medical tourism. It was a medical treatment option for DFAT staff posted to Asia in the 1980's. The Thais as a people naturally socially distant when in public and are fastidious about personal cleanliness and consistently wear masks when told to do so or if they have a slight cold.

    I am not surprised by the results in Thailand, I am surprised that it is not acknowledged by the powers that be in Australia.
    Winston Smith
    26th Oct 2020
    8:26pm
    A good perspective Alan.

    Sadly, the Libs are better at demonising Asian people of all kinds.
    Eddy
    26th Oct 2020
    10:29pm
    Poor old Dan Andrews, damned if he does and damned if he don't. All all his detractors, including the Victorian Opposition Leader and various Federal Government politicians, do not bear his responsibility for decisions that may mean life or death for citizens. I am sure if Mr Andrews had heeded the advice of 'whingers' and opened up too early the same whingers would have disavowed any responsibility for possible traumatic consequences.
    As for hotel quarantine there were two main reasons it went pear shaped. One, the selfish and irresponsible behaviour of some of the quarantined 'guests' who were not prepared to accept the necessity to quarantine themselves, and complained, whinged and moaned and is some cases reportedly threatened suicide. Second the irresponsible behaviour of the security guards employers who failed to train their employees in basic barrier hygiene (presumably to save money) and provided inadequate supervision (again presumably to save money).
    The decision not to use ADF personnel was perfectly valid; at a time when many had lost their jobs and an employment opportunity arose (ie for security guards) it was a no-brainer to offer that opportunity to some of the newly unemployed. Thankfully we do not live in a country where the military is used in preference to non-military for civilian jobs.
    The ADF should only be used in support of civil powers not in place of a civilian workforce. I even suggest using ADF at roadblocks or using ADF to accompany health officers was a misuse of the ADF, the ADF have no constabulary powers. These function could easily have been carried out by some civilian personnel who had lost their jobs.
    By the way if you go to just about any military base in Australia (I cannot vouch for every base as I did not visit them all during my working life) you will find the bases are guarded by contracted civilian security guards not uniformed personnel. Even high security installations (such as Defence headquarters in Canberra) have contracted civilian guards, and sometimes armed civilian guards.
    I stand with Dan.
    Huskie
    27th Oct 2020
    7:01am
    Exceptionally well put!
    Winston Smith
    27th Oct 2020
    9:53am
    Yes, I've pointed out that reality about security at our military bases to a lot of Dan haters, and they simply won't believe it. They prefer dogma to truth.
    BillF2
    27th Oct 2020
    2:24pm
    In all the fear and panic created by case numbers, courtesy of the PCR test, there don't seem to be any figures about who is actually ill, or who is infectious. And case numbers do not equate to deaths, either. Consequently, by putting everybody in the same basket, Dan Andrews has done an amazing one-man wrecking job of the Victorian economy and the lives and livelihoods of many people. And he still hasn't got rid of covid-19.
    Winston Smith
    27th Oct 2020
    2:41pm
    An utterly nonsensical, obviously politically driven comment.

    This is a new disease, only a year old. The medical world doesn't know everything about it yet. But we do know that it's extremely infectious. And it does kill people. If we can control the spread of infection we are on a winner, and that's what Dan has done.

    The economy will recover. Dead people can't, and sick people make lousy customers for most businesses.

    BillF2 - people like you scare me, because you think you know better than the medical experts advising the premier.
    john
    28th Oct 2020
    1:34pm
    There is no doubt in my mind that incompetency from Andrews and his government created what should never have happened in Victoria.
    lets forget the comparisons, Vic was nearly clean and new comers arrived and were put in hotels for isolation and from there the whole plan fell into disarray , and people who did not know what to do, were not trained properly were used and indirectly as Andrews did killed around 800 people. He was its been proven able to get AFD, for the job his police commissioner said we don't want to do it, but still Andrews had our cops out on the street like the Getapo treating people like criminals because of an illness that was not being even recorded properly in numbers as whether they died of the virus or with it, co-morbidity,
    WHAT THAT SAYS IS WE REALLY DO NOT KNOW HOW SERIOUS IT IS?? That is just an unfortunate fact of life, do we get told about the recovery of the millions around the world, somewhat like people recover from influenza, now not knowing this new virus must have frightened all of us , but then in Victoria this bloke D. Andrews goes to extremes and destroys business s' creates misery , arresting people who are not in danger, some people don't follow rules YES WE KNOW THAT! , well if you give them freedom and some idea that you think they are not all dumb then they may actually do the COVID rule safety hygiene following of!!!!!Comparing over seas situations is nonsense every country is different, but WA and QLD and Victoria all overreacted even when world AUTHORITIES ARE DISCOVERING THAT LOCKDOWN IS WORSE FOR THE PEOPLE AND ECONOMY THAN THE DISEASE WAS!!!
    in WA the border is locked, we seem to be clear , but some time we have to open up, I am Victorian my two sons live there they are sole traders, work is dead right now. What happens here in WA when the opening comes , because the Premier here may feel happy go lucky but his standing politically at the moment is massive , he may find that disappear if people cannot start earning again.
    In the beginning we were all terrified and did what we had to, but since then things have changed with the knowledge of COVID19, and there should be more emphasis put into treatment research , some have over seas, Australia did nothing, vaccine may come it may or may not work , it may never come, so we need treatments too. No one talks about that?

    We didn't have an attack of Ebola River Virus, but it looked like it in Melbourne, and for far too long, and the fact that nonsensical rules for people were still there and some still even now 28/10/2020 a partial relief. It is massive political overkill, and DANIEL ANDREWS needs to be investigated along with his colleagues for Industrial Manslaughter, the Federal Government should have moved on that state, but they were too frightened and the Victorian Governor was much the same, cowardly to allow this foolish man being praised by his equaly foolish national leader Albo in parliament. What a joke.
    Worse is what is this freak left wing fellow really up too?
    Winston Smith
    28th Oct 2020
    1:44pm
    Pure, politically motivated garbage. You need to stop listening to 3AW and Sky.

    Dan didn't cause the initial outbreak. Things went wrong in many places.


    We could start with an idiot PM who allowed potentially infected people back into the country and chose to put them in the middle of our two biggest cities, rather than somewhere more removed from major population centres, or even offshore processing, with no guidance to the state governments he handed it over to at incredibly short notice. And the people in hotel quarantine who broke the rules. The sheer bad luck that meant the sex mad returning travellers in Melbourne were infected. (Was that the case in Sydney?) People who broke the rules in other places. Many others.


    It’s worth noting that Scott has recognised (but not admitted to the fact) that putting returning travellers in the middle of our biggest cities was dumb, because he’s putting the latest lot in a place way outside Darwin.


    But rusted on, whingy, whiny Lib lovers choose to place all the blame on Dan. And make complete fools of themselves doing so.


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