Asylum seekers are now ‘illegal’

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Australian immigration staff and those working in detention centres have received instructions to refer to asylum seekers as ‘illegal’. Immigration Minister Scott Morrison earlier this week sent a written directive that all asylum seekers arriving in Australia by boat be referred to as ‘illegal maritime arrivals’. Asylum seekers held in detention centres in Australia are to be called ‘detainees’ instead of clients, and those being held on Nauru or Manus Island are to be called ‘transferees’ instead of clients.

In 2007 the Labor Government stopped using the term ‘illegal maritime arrivals’, instead calling them ‘irregular maritime arrivals’, in recognition of the fact that it is not illegal under Australian or international law to seek asylum. The new directive from Immigration Minister Morrison will see a return to the language of the Howard government.

Many asylum seeker groups are unhappy with the change in language. Chief Executive of the Asylum Seeker Resource Centre, Kon Karapanagiotidis, has said that the language change will shape the public debate over asylum seekers. “He’s [the minister] deliberately trying to dehumanise asylum seekers by making them seem less human… They’re ‘detainees’, not people, and that suggests criminality. And calling people ‘transferees’ suggests they have no rights; they’re a package, a parcel, in transit.”

Opposition leader Bill Shorten has said that Labor does not agree with the new terminology. “I do believe that we’re an immigration nation. Other than Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders, we’re all boat people or plane people. We are the nation of the second chance and we have been since European settlement.”

Mr Morrison has defended his decision to direct public servants to refer to asylum seekers as ‘illegal’. “I’m not going to make apologies for not using politically correct language to describe something that I am trying to stop,” he said. “I’m not going to engage in some sort of clever language to try and mask anything here… I’m going to call a spade a spade.”

When questioned about his use of the word ‘illegal’ to describe asylum seekers, Mr Morrison explained, “People who have entered Australia illegally by boat have entered illegally by boat. I’ve never said that it was illegal to claim asylum. That’s not what the term refers to. It refers to the mode of entry.”

Find out more about Mr Morrison’s new directive at the Sydney Morning Herald

 

Opinion: Not engaging in ‘clever language’ is stupid

There are so many problems with Immigration Minister Scott Morrison’s new directive I hardly know where to start. I believe his language decisions are wrong on a moral, human level, and his justification is so technically flawed as to render it invalid.

I will start with the technical problems and work my way backwards. Mr Morrison has claimed that the term ‘illegal maritime arrivals’, which is to be used to describe individual asylum seekers, does not describe those people as illegal. It simply describes their mode of entry as illegal. On a purely grammatical level, Mr Morrison’s justification is wrong. The word ‘illegal’ in this phrase describes the ‘arrival’. By describing asylum seekers as ‘arrivals’ of any kind, the word ‘arrival’ stops meaning ‘a mode of transport’ and is instead simply another word for ‘asylum seeker’. If an ‘arrival’ is the same as an ‘asylum seeker’ then, grammatically, calling them ‘illegal maritime asylum seekers’ is just as correct as calling them ‘illegal maritime arrivals’. Mr Morrison is calling asylum seekers illegal, even if he doesn’t mean to be. If he wanted to refer to their mode of transport as illegal, he would need to call them ‘fellow human beings who have illegally arrived by boat’.

Technicalities aside, I think it is just plain wrong to dehumanise those who seek our help. To make the treacherous journey to Australia by boat, a person would need to be truly desperate. I think that locking these people away in detention centres is bad enough. Mr Morrisons insistence that we refer to them as ‘illegal maritime arrivals’, ‘detainees’ and ‘transferees’ simply adds insult to injury. Manners don’t cost anything, and acknowledging with our words, if not yet our actions, that asylum seekers are human beings should be a given.

As important as I think it is to use the correct language in any situation, at the end of the day this is an argument about semantics. All the hype over the word ‘illegal’ creates one more distraction from the bigger issue, which is that Australia’s asylum seeker policy is putting us at risk of breaching our signed agreement with the UN to provide assistance to genuine refugees.

Finally, I would like to put a question to Mr Morrison and to each of you. If it is not illegal to seek asylum, but it is illegal to arrive in Australia by boat, how else are they supposed to get here? Are they supposed to swim?

What do you think? Is the new term ‘illegal maritime arrivals’ more correct? Or is it dehumanising and wrong? 

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327 Comments

Total Comments: 327
  1. 0
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    When illegal immigrants arrive on our shores, of course they should be called illegal. What a load of politically correct bulls..t from the labor party. They are just grasping at straws because Tony Abbott is stopping the boats. Something they could not do in six years, after starting the boats arriving. I am sick of all the crap coming from Shorten and his union mates, trying to make it more difficult for Tony to stop the boats. They are traitors to this country. Abbott has a mandate to stop the boats and to get rid of labor’s carbon tax.

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      Incorrect. It is not illegal to claim asylum.

      This is just another vomitous attempt at blackening asylum seekers. You’re sick of the crap? So am I.

    • 0
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      John Howard started this and Abbott and crew have continued. One it is NOT illegal to seek asylum be that by boat, plane or whatever.

      Two most ILLEGAL immigrants are ones that fly in and overstay their visa.

      We invaded two of the countries that asylum seekers are arriving from and yet we turn our heads on the responsibility of the invasion. And by the way invading Iraq was ILLEGAL it wasn’t sanctioned by the UN and it was based on lies about weapons of mass destruction.

    • 0
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      Jen and minnie
      May be an idea of reading the subject matter before jumping to your own conclusions

    • 0
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      “Illegal Maritime is incorrect” . They are unauthorised maritime arrivals.

      The UNHCR emphasises that a person who has a well-founded fear of persecution should be viewed as a refugee and not be labelled an ‘illegal’. Asylum seekers do not break any Australian laws simply by arriving on boats or without authorisation.

    • 0
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      paying criminals to ferry them without going through any process is correctly called illegal.

    • 0
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      Incorrect, smuggling people or human trafficking is a crime.It is not a crime to be a passenger on board, whether you paid or not. You are a victim of a crime.

    • 0
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      Incorrect. Aiding and abetting a crime is illegal.

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      Your using incorrect legal terminology in this context. The passengers on board the boat do not directly pay the smugglers. It is assumed that refugees hand over cash to someone who captains the boat into Australian waters. This not what factually happens. There are a whole host of people involved in the smuggling or trafficking network. Coordinator or organiser,Recruiters,Transporters or guides,Spotters, drivers, messengers and enforcers,Service providers and other suppliers, corrupt public officials who accept bribes.

      Anyone of these people may be charged with aiding and abetting, not the passengers.

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      And I presume destroyng their papers to avoid scrutiny is also perfectly legal and commendable ? They are illegal entrants omn many counts. True asylum seekers apply in the first safe country in which they arrive and they wouldn’t travel through unsafe countries.

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      can anyone prove the asylum seekers destroyed their papers?? I am not saying they didn’t, but suspicion of destroying their papers is not enough. The precedent has been set, for what ever reasons the asylum seekers do not have legal papers (maybe they were too busy trying to stay alive and couldn’t wait two or three weeks for their papers!)

      Illegal water users or any other name they are still “asylum seekers ‘….. LEGAL asylum seekers that arrive here by boat.

      IS IT A CRIME TO WANT TO STAY ALIVE??

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      They have their papers when they fly into Indonesia as otherwise the Indonesian Government would not let them in.

      If they are asylum seekers they should seek asylum in Indonesia.

    • 0
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      To Jen….No it isn’t illegal to claim asylum but their motives must seem a little bit suss when ‘asylum seekers’ only claim asylum if its in a country offering generous social benefits.

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      There is a lot of misconception about asylum seekers coming via Indonesia. The first one is ‘why don’t they seek asylum in Indonesia’. They can’t because there is no legal framework to assist them. The UNHCR site offers very good information:

      “The Philippines is the only State in South-East Asia that is Party to the 1954 Convention related to the Status of Stateless Persons, and no country in the subregion has yet acceded to the 1961 Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness… Without solid legal frameworks to protect them, refugees and stateless people in the region are treated as illegal migrants, subject to detention and deportation.”

      http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e488116.html

      What is sickening is that Indonesia isn’t party to the conventions, Australia is, and yet it appears Australia treats asylum seekers who arrive by boat EXACTLY the same as those who have not signed the conventions, we detain and deport them. Our response is third world.

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      “They have their papers when they fly into Indonesia as otherwise the Indonesian Government would not let them in” . They do not have their papers when they fly into Indonesia. Indonesian law regarding refugees etc is arbitrarily used. This means that it is inconsistent. Indonesia is not a signatory to the Refugees Convention, and what that means is that they have no interest whatsoever in affording any rights or legal status to asylum seekers or refugees. So many are locked up without being charged, in gaols in appalling conditions. Others might be living in the community but they know that the police can arrest them at any time. They can’t work, can’t get medical care, have children.

    • 0
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      Well said Dogs Body, you’re a 100% right.
      And also those illegal immigrant don’t assimilate with the Aussie way of life, but this is another issue!
      Multiculturalism has failed miserably!

    • 0
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      ILLEGAL….. instead of Asylum Seekers. Starting to sound more and more like George Orwell’s 1984 where they simply change words to CON the Proletariates or PROLS which keeps them under control! After some of the comments above… yeah… PROLS.

      Unbelievable……. Asylum Seekers would NOT fill up the MCG, there are so little of them. Those that are accepted into Australia are NO DOUBT refugees and if they make it in, 99.9% of those are that grateful and become MODEL AUSTRALIAN CITIZENS.

      Not a word from the PROLS about the REAL illegal immigrants who come in through the 457 visa system which brings in workers that take Australian jobs and bring down our wages. Those that do not go home when their work visas expire or their holiday comes to an end…. any problems fellas (and Abby)? What about the totally LEGAL IMMIGRANTS that come maybe from Saudi Arabia, who have oodles of money but also EXTREME religious views….. still okay?

      You haven’t thought about it? Nothing is said on the Corporate (foreign) mainstream media, who support 457 visas and wealthy immigrants because it makes money for them and their cohorts?

      So that means YOU don’t THINK either and simply DO WHAT YOU ARE TOLD and squeak and squeal about the Asylum Seekers….. a FINE DISTRACTION for PROLS don’t you think!

    • 0
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      if it looks like a one-eyed political idiot, txts like one, behaves like one, goes on and on like one, invents its own scenarios, poses as a know it all, cant accept the truth, would open the Oz borders to anyone and everyone, doesnt even understand simple english words like ILLEGAL, then have a guess as to who it is … hint – starts with M

    • 0
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      Wow, my one and only aquatrek….. you simply can’t resist me can you.

      Don’t like being maligned as a Proletariate or PROL, old chum…. then don’t act like one.

    • 0
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      I know who that is aquatrek—– Our know it all script writer Mozzie-Bait. Or was it Masturbate.

    • 0
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      How woooowd and coming from someone who calls himself ‘Dogs Body’.

      You know what dogs like to lick all day….. anything….. but in particular, orifices and other dangly bits… chuckle.

  2. 0
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    I am so sick of parties and their supporters having a go when someone is trying to get it right, of course they are illegal, I have seen this crap from white fella’s trying to tell me I should be offended by someone calling me a black fella, get a grip for God’s sake, this politically correct garbage will destroy our country unless we stop it

    • 0
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      Spot on lasaboy. I am fed up of all this politically correct crap. Australians are really not into that, except a few with hidden agendas.

    • 0
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      Oh! dear… more PROLS.

      It has NOTHING to do with politically correct and has a LOT to do with TAGGING certain people as UNDESIRABLE and INCITING RACISM.

      Okay, it gives the PROLS something to squeal about ….. keeping them occupied BUT it certainly has NOTHING to do with political correctness, quite the opposite my two little friends.

  3. 0
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    It is completely wrong.
    People are human beings full stop.
    We Australians are a disgrace when it comes to upholding a treaty to which we have been a signatory to since it began.
    We cant be trusted.
    There is much much more involved than a mindless three word mantra.
    It has sucked a lot of people in.

  4. 0
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    These people are a drain on our society. They come to Australia and head straight to CENTRELINK – they have arrived and retired at the expense of the taxpayer. They are not fleeing their country for POLITICAL reasons they are coming for FINANCIAL reasons and for that reason in my opinion makes then ILLEGALS not asylum seekers. Labor caused the majority of this mess and remember they were giving them bigger payments than our aged pension. Asylum seekers give me a break what a load of nonsense

    • 0
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      Eleanor, with respect I don’t think you are correct in saying that.
      You may have ‘heard’ it somewhere but where are the facts that back that claim?

    • 0
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      Kristo,
      You criticize Eleanor by asking her to provide facts to back up her claim, yet you want us to accept that Eleanor is wrong simply because you say so.

      Surely, the way for you to demonstrate that Eleanor is wrong is to provide your own evidence to the contrary. Till then, I’ll go along with Eleanor.

    • 0
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      They don’t get Centrelink benefits when they arrive. When they are given bridign visas the red cross and other non profits help them. They are entitled to receive benefits when they become Austalian Citizens and are settled. Most are working and paying taxes to support all Australians.They boost our economy, and not a drain on it. However, detaining people in detention centers for years and years drains the Australian Economy.

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      seeing we are getting to the root of the vocabulary, Kristo did say “I don’t thing think you are etc.” and then simply implies eleanor’s “facts” may have been hearsay. Anyone knows we can get facts and stats from the Gov.

      I side with Kristo. I have a young asylum seeker Bosnian couple living near me and I can only speak highly of them. They left their parents and other family members and came to a strange country and (to my way of thinking) they are contributing more to the local community and society than a lot of dinky-di, true-blue-Assies do. AND their stoyies about their trip here are cruel and frightening. I admire them greatly. Australia is lucky to have them.

    • 0
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      We can all cite examples. I know an Afghan man who has been given refugee status and he hates all Australians, loves the Taliban and is bent on Jihad. He regards our women as cattle to be used and discarded. He may not be typical but how many do you need? On the other hand I know good people who have come here.

    • 0
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      There are many examples of Australian men who hate all Australians and also regard women as cattle to be used and discarded. So he’s in good company.

    • 0
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      It’s alarming isn’t it, however the research is very strong, most men convicted of adult sexual assault or domestic violence have these attitudes and beliefs. The research is very strong.

    • 0
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      No wonder our pensioners are on the bread line with all these bloody illegal boat people paying $10,000 to $15,000 for boat trips to OZ, the bludging of the ever suffering tax payers. Charity begins at home, and the pensioners that have paid taxes for years should not be disadvantaged by these illegals. Buggar them. Australians are contributing plenty in helping genuine refugees. Plus grants to Indonesia.

    • 0
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      Pensioners benefit when Asylum seekers who are settled in Australia, they work and pay taxes and pay for your pension and healthcare costs. The real cost is housing them indefinitely in detention centers. Process them quickly and do away with detention altogether. We are the only Western Country who detains them.

    • 0
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      What jobs, unemployment is going up, it is hard enough for genuine Australians to find work. Take out the part time workers, and we are around 10% unemployed. To suggest these illegals would be a benefit is wrong. We bring in enough real refugees as it is. The government never gives out true unemployment figures.

    • 0
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      Unbelievable……. Asylum Seekers would NOT fill up the MCG, there are so little of them. Those that are accepted into Australia are NO DOUBT refugees and if they make it in, 99.9% of those are that grateful and become MODEL AUSTRALIAN CITIZENS.

      This thing about coming from countries that treat their women badly…. what have you to say about people legally immigrating from, say, Saudi Arabia…. they are wealthy so don’t use Centrelink and generally they are religious EXTREMISTS who treat their women with TOTAL DISTAIN, violence, etc, etc. They are the ones who refuse to accept Australia’s culture and laws….. they okay then.

      Eleanor…. I don’t hear you complaining that Abbott giving social welfare money from those that NEED it, to pay the equivalent to $75000pa wage for those on $150,000pa and above, to have children. The women claiming this AMAZING waste of taxpayers money may well be from Saudia Arabia, etc….. you will be paying taxes so that they can have more babies? Ever thought of that!

      THE SCAM of this equivalent to $75000pa wage, is as follows:

      I am wealthy, I want to come to Australia, I fly over and register an Australian $2 company, I then start a business – coffee shop, etc and get the Company to SPONSOR me and my whole family into Australia. Two years I am an Australian citizen, along with my whole family but during that time, I employ my wife in the coffee shop and pay her $150,000 to run the show…. after ten months she has her first baby. Our government PAYS her the equivalent of $75000pa wage for the designated period to have her child. ALL Australians that have their own company or business can also do this easily by paying their wives a huge wage when they do NOTHING or very little in the company, so that they can receive the equivalent of $75000pa wage when they are ready to have a baby.

      It is a lot more than what the Asylum Seekers get…… How does that sit with you Eleanor…. okay????

      Just another way of shifting TAXPAYERS MONEY (PUBLIC MONEY) into the POCKETS of the WEALTHY (PRIVATE POCKETS).

    • 0
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      rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant by guess who/m ………………………. ?
      [there is no prize]

      they are ILLEGAL

    • 0
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      aquatrek…. can you UNDERSTAND what was said…. given your response, it does seem a tad over your head. Would it be better if you were told by the corporate (foreign) owned mainstream media, in PROL SPEAK?

    • 0
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      Mussitate has elsewhere condemned all religions other than Islam for inflicting their views on everyone else, but has not provided any evidence of the Christian religions in a supposedly Christian country behaving in the manner he described. Yet he appears to support Islam which does demand the right to inflict Islamic law and beliefs wherever it has sufficient power to enforce those demands.
      Mussitate is also devious with his statement that asylum seekers would not fill the Melbourne Cricket Ground. Between 1989 and now, 60,006 people claiming to be asylum seekers have entered this country, add to that number the number of people who have been accepted as refugees in the same period of time and finding 130,000 people to fill the MCG would be no problem.
      The claim that 99.9% of asylum seekers are model citizens cannot be reconciled with the fact that most states now have a special Middle East crime unit.

  5. 0
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    There is no law against any person seeking asylum.
    The term illegal immigrant applies to a person who has already taken up residence on these shores without official permission.
    To describe these people as illegal is to deny the essential pillar of a humane legal system: “innocent until proven guilty”.
    Who would trust any of our politicians to assign guilt to anyone without due process of trial?

    • 0
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      Pete, you contradict your own argument.
      “The term illegal immigrant applies to a person who has taken up residence on these shore without official permission” end quote.

      Who gave these arrivals by boats entering Australian waters permission to take up residency?

    • 0
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      Bofor, you mention ‘taking up residency’ … do you mean the people who come here on a tourist visa and never leave or do you mean the asylum seekers who are fleeing for their life that arrive here end up in detention centres before they are granted LEGAL residency?

  6. 0
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    They arrived utilising illegal channels, so what’s the issue? They are illegal non-residents… end of story, there’s no point in trying to gild the lily here.

  7. 0
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    What a load of BS to claim asylum I thought you do that at the next port of call, NOT by pass countries and go to one that will give you everything. LOOK after our own first

    • 0
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      if one is persecuted in their own country and other close countries too .. wouldn’t you go to a country that offers asylum?? (I wonder if Australia really is as generous and as compassionate as I remember her to be)

    • 0
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      Too many bleeding hearts on this site. Get real you idiots.

    • 0
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      you the idiot – lol lol

    • 0
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      OOO NOOOO Not blond FOXY again. PLEASE !!!!!

    • 0
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      Foxy please put your teeth in before you step out of the front door, or up to your computer.

    • 0
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      …go do something constructive you Old Simmo – oh and I did notice your pathetic comments about people in the bush fire regions (earlier post)…..but then I should have expected such ignorance from Trailer Park Trash like yourself….still jealous of people who own homes – sad really ! Poor old bigot…….

    • 0
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      Old Poxy Foxy, I don’t know if she can afford those false teeth Young Simmo. Thinks she is a millionaire because she owns a dump of a house. Probably mortgaged to the eye brows. A mans haircut and bum like a working bullock type. Waddles along looking for food all the time. What a greedy old bitter hag.

    • 0
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      Yeh Dogs Body, apparently the ABC did a show the other day about Poxy Foxy, but were told the show had to go to air after 10 pm when all the kids were in bed. Something to do with kids having night mares during school week.
      Imagine the poor neighbour going out to pick up his newspaper in the morning and seeing that.

    • 0
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      lol lol – once again we have the two old nasty foul-mouthed ” old men” (above) looking after each other as usual and once again spewing their “cyber bullying – you need to know you two nasty old men that a lot of other people read your comments on here – and – you are not liked at all!!! Nasty hateful old men!!!! Sad actually …real sad!

    • 0
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      Wow the pot calling the kettle black. Poxy Foxy you are the original name caller and sh*t slinger. If the replies to your disgusting unlady like mouthing off upset you, don’t start it in the first place. People like me, Surfer and Dogs Body only give what we get. Ask anybody that knows me, and they will tell you that I am a wonderful, kind and generous gentleman. Also very modest.

  8. 0
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    Generally speaking ‘illegal immigrants’ are people who enter a country without meeting the legal requirements for entry (without a valid visa, for example). However, under Article 14 of the 1948 Universal declaration of human rights, everyone has the right to seek asylum and the 1951 Refugee Convention prohibits states from imposing PENALTIES on those entering ‘illegally’ who come directly from a territory where their life or freedom is threatened.

    The UNHCR emphasises that a person who has a well-founded fear of persecution should be viewed as a refugee and not be labelled an ‘illegal immigrant’ as the very nature of persecution means that their only means of escape may be via illegal entry and/or the use of false documentation.[8] The Refugee Council of Australia similarly notes the practical difficulties encountered by asylum seekers in obtaining the requisite documentation prior to departure:

    Asylum seekers do not break any Australian laws simply by arriving on boats or without authorisation. Australian and international law make these allowances because it is not always safe or practicable for asylum seekers to obtain travel documents or travel through authorised channels. Refugees are, by definition, persons fleeing persecution and in most cases are being persecuted by their own government. It is often too dangerous for refugees to apply for a passport or exit visa or approach an Australian Embassy for a visa, as such actions could put their lives, and the lives of their families, at risk. Refugees may also be forced to flee with little notice due to rapidly deteriorating situations and do not have time to apply for travel documents or arrange travel through authorised channels. Permitting asylum seekers to entry a country without travel documents is similar to allowing ambulance drivers to exceed the speed limit in an emergency – the action would be ordinarily be considered illegal, but the circumstances warrant an exception.

    Asylum seekers irrespective of their mode of arrival, like others that arrive in Australia without a valid visa, are classified by Australian law to be ‘unlawful non-citizens’. However, the term ‘unlawful’ does not mean that asylum seekers have committed a criminal offence. There is no offence under Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa.

  9. 0
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    It is not illegal to seek asylum.
    It is illegal to come by boat with the assumption of receiving asylum as of right.
    There are established protocols for applying for asylum as there is for any other privilege.
    If you apply for a tenancy and are granted that tenancy then you are a legal occupier.
    If you occupy a house with no agreement then you are an illegal squatter.
    I can see little difference…

    • 0
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      To stop the human misery part of it, drownings and the glib treatment by Morrison we would be better to follow the Clive Palmer policy.
      By flying them in and carrying out due process of eligibility for Asylum the people smugglers are out of business, the drowning of human beings and women and kids is stopped to a major extent at least and those that are not eligible are returned to whence they came.
      Also takes the risk off of our own sailors and saves many $billions of taxpayers money which is being handed to outfits like Serco for incarceration.
      Those that qualify can easily become Australians along the vein of the boat people influx fro Vietnam and such and all the other groups that came and are now part of our culture.
      Or is it a white Australia that you seek?

    • 0
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      Why would you suggest skin colour or ethnic origin has any relevance to a persons right to asylum?
      I don’t see the connection.

    • 0
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      Kevie, it shouldn’t but I was referring to some Australians who seem to want a white Australia. Geddit?

    • 0
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      Wow Kristo the “white” people you speak of who live in Villawood and Fairfield who are not game to venture out at night would warmly congratulate you on your kind remarks regards to the biggest criminal activity since the Mafia in the good old USof A.

    • 0
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      Kevie, I can remember the end of the Vietnam war and the refugees arriving by plane. That was when Australia was a proud and compassionate country. We benefited from their culture (and food!!)and as for you reference to the Mafia and criminal activities, I really do not think any aliens have hold over us Aussies!! Remember, we were exported here for stealing a handkerchief or a loaf of bread!! We have our own first class criminals.

    • 0
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      Good old selective memory. We got some great people from Vietnam and they have enriched us. We also got all the corrupt and criminal elements and they have made a great living in crime and in selling our youth the drugs that are destroying them.

    • 0
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      Aloysius
      Australia’s crime rate is the lowest in the world… you should go to the USA and walk into the wrong suburb… don’t understand your connection to crime and corruption and Vietnamese people? Simply doesn’t make sense.

      Crime in Australia, particularly drugs is certainly not limited to other cultural groups…. the recent headlines about bikies proves that point.

  10. 0
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    unless u have a visa etc if u step foot on Australian soil or come in her waters with intention of doing so then u are ilegal

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