14th Apr 2016
Bernie Fraser: reducing company tax rate is “fiscally irresponsible”
newspaper advert saying no to company tax cuts

Former RBA boss Bernie Fraser has joined with 50 prominent Australians in an open plea to Malcolm Turnbull for the Government to prioritise fairness in the next Federal Budget.

Treasurer Scott Morrison may be toying with the idea of a corporate tax cut, but Bernie Fraser believes it won’t deliver the benefit to the economy for which the Government hopes.

With the Federal Budget less than a month away on 3 May, the agenda still seems quite unclear. Considering that personal income tax breaks are off the table – along with an increase to the GST – the Government is now preaching the potential benefits of reducing the 30 per cent company tax rate (CTR), saying it could encourage businesses to invest more and help to grow the economy.

This is contrary to findings from Victoria University which, in a report released yesterday, stated that Australian households would be up to $2000 per year worse off if company tax cuts were introduced.

Bernie Fraser agrees with this claim, saying to ABC Radio’s Fran Kelly yesterday that, "History shows it doesn't work that way" and adding that such a move doesn’t guarantee new jobs and that cuts would end up reducing the Government’s ability to spend on health care, education and income support and that “would be the unkindest cut of all”.

“This kind of trade-off typifies what’s been a failure of fiscal policy by all governments over the last couple of decades,” said Mr Fraser.

He also went on to say that, should companies receive tax breaks, there would be the possibility of an increase in personal tax to cover the loss of revenue the Government will see if it’s not receiving taxes from companies.

The letter, signed by such luminaries and economists as Bernie Fraser, ACTU president Ged Kearney, former federal ALP president Carmen Lawrence and Nobel prize winner Peter Doherty, was published yesterday as a full page advertisement in Fairfax newspapers, calls on Mr Turnbull "not to cut taxes at this time – and certainly not for companies".

"A debate about tax reform should begin with the question of how much tax is required to fund the services we need to build a fair and decent society in Australia."

"Real tax reform also requires fairness. A serious tax reform package designed to be 'fair' should address as a priority the current generous tax concessions to the top end of town, inequitable distribution of superannuation tax concessions and the capital gains tax discount, not how to give big businesses large company tax cuts at the expense of services that everyday Australians rely on."

Read more at www.sbs.com.au
Listen to Bernie Fraser on ABC Radio

Opinion: Kicking us while we’re down

Having just been told that Australians need to live within their means, which is already difficult for so many, the Government’s idea of cutting company tax would seem to make that prospect even more difficult.

It’s almost as if the Coalition Government is intent on kicking households while they’re down.

Reducing the tax companies should pay may, in the long run, encourage investment and increase wages. But in the short term, we’ll be the ones forced to foot the bill. And according to Victoria University modelling, a cut to company tax will boost domestic production, but it will have a negative impact on personal incomes to the tune of $800 to $2000 each year. That’s per person, mind you.

The revenue lost to the Government will need to be offset from somewhere else. So it’s fair to say that will most likely be from cuts to other necessary services, such as health care, welfare and education. It’s worth pointing out here, too, that the Government recently announced it will increase spending on the military to the equivalent of two per cent of the economy. From where is that money coming?

You guessed it: us.

Okay, so lowering CTR may have its benefits, but they may take years or even decades. But will it encourage investment? Not according to Mr Fraser.

Although the Government claims that most of these so-called benefits will end up in the pockets of workers, it’s more likely it will go offshore to foreign interests. And any money made by management, ownership and shareholders will no doubt go back into buying shares in even more profitable companies, as it has in the past, and not necessarily into investing in more jobs or increasing wages. So who wins? The top end of town, yet again.

Cutting the company tax rate also sends another message: that the Government is intent on looking after the already wealthy. After all, why should blue collar citizens pay their tax when the big end of town gets off so lightly?

If anything, the Government should be leaning on companies to actually pay their fair share of tax. In a study undertaken by the Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU), 85 per cent of Australians think the Government should close corporate tax loopholes. Not surprising, when Australian Tax Office (ATO) figures show that 38 per cent of corporate entities paid no tax. Isn’t it about time Mr Turnbull made good on his promise to take on corporate tax avoidance? How does reducing the amount of tax they need to pay do that, I ask you?

"Australians are sick of being told they must live within their means and accept cuts to services while our government allows big business to skirt their responsibilities," said ACTU president Ged Kearney.

It’s difficult to argue with that, no matter on which side of the fence you sit.

In the same ACTU survey, around nine in 10 Australians would actually like to see a national commission against corruption established that also has the power to investigate corporate tax avoidance.

The Government’s job is to provide services to the country it manages, not to make a profit. This whole preoccupation with getting back to surplus is erroneous. And when you take into consideration that households already have much bigger debt in proportion to the GDP than the Government, the hit workers will take to their yearly income will only further widen this gap.

Cutting the company tax rate is not the answer to our economic and employment woes. As Dr Janine Dixon of the Centre of Policy Studies at Victoria University so wisely points out: “Rather than using company tax cuts to bolster foreign investment, let's not forget that Australia offers many other qualities to investors: an educated, English-speaking workforce, proximity to the Asia-Pacific region, and stable democracy. If we can retain on this list good infrastructure and public service delivery and a strong social safety net thanks to well-considered government policy, we might continue to enjoy the benefits of foreign capital inflows without sacrificing a valuable source of government revenue.”

Hopefully that provides inspiration for the Government to create tax reform that, in the words of our Prime Minister, is “about prudence, fairness and responsibility to our future generations” – claims which are, so far, ringing hollow.

What do you think about the Government potentially reducing company tax rates? Do you think it’s ‘the answer’ to create more jobs? What other ways can it encourage investment and improve job prospects for all Australians? Would you like to add your name to the list of Australians who oppose lower company tax?

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    COMMENTS

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    babyboomer
    14th Apr 2016
    10:20am
    Unbelievable. The last time someone said 'Let Them Eat Cake' there was a revolution and that's just what we need here in Australia. Fat Cats OUT.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    3:22pm
    That's about it babyboomer.
    I find it incredible that company tax cuts could even be put on to the tables when we have a "BUDGET EMERGENCY". You can't have it both ways and the lie this big business owned government is pushing with big business media spruikers in tow is that 'lower taxes on business will promote more jobs'. A complete fabrication!
    Lower company taxes will do one thing only: RESULT IN BIGGER PAY PACKETS FOR CEOs AND THEIR BOARDS. Australians understand that business in not a benevolent boss. It seeks to maximise profits and rip as much money out as its owners get their greedy little hands on.

    This government lost faith with the public after Abbott INTENTIONALLY lied his way into office. Now the same media machine is at it again. Anybody heard the attacks on the Transport Safety Organisation in the past few days? And then we have the attack on holding a RC into bank culture. As if a useless ASIC will ever go after the banks. The funding rout will make sure that they cannot and that protects the election funding banks from anything other than business as usual.

    I find the whole big end of town behaviour sickening and immoral. ABout time voters did what is necessary to see this lot on their way and then demand that the new government start to rigorously REGULATE our corrupt big business sector.
    Robin7
    15th Apr 2016
    12:09am
    EVERY dollar made in Australia should pay it's tax in Australia.

    I suggest no tax returns, no deductions, just a small flat rate on the gross income, Charge tax on every single dollar and you could lower the income tax and company tax rates to ~5% and government would still have more revenue flowing into the coffers than they get today.

    Set that rate at 10% and you could do away with every other tax, levy, fee and excise on the books.
    Imagine, no petrol excise, no GST, no agonising over what is/is-not an allowable deduction on your tax return!

    How much more cash would you have in your pocket if the big end of town paid it's fair share?
    MICK
    15th Apr 2016
    8:27am
    The GST is already 10%. Not sure how you could get more Robin. And then you have problems in business where there are LEGITIMATE business expenses as you could potentially be taxing businesses which are making a genuine loss.
    The issue is tax avoidance by either dodgy deductions or tax shelters. As I have said many times before TAX SHELTERS NEED TO BE MADE ILLEGAL. Their main use is simply tax avoidance but our governments refuse to act and one has to believe that there is a corrupt relationship between governments and big business. I have suggested many times that coalition governments let the thieving continue for no other reason than big business contributing to election coffers. The businesses who effectively bribe political parties and the officials and MPs who are engaged in this all need to serve jail terms. They are criminals, and the retort that "there is nothing illegal" in what they are doing hides the fact that we are talking about systemic and intentional corruption at the highest levels.
    Adrianus
    15th Apr 2016
    9:15am
    mick, these tax shelters you talk about, how would you go about making them illegal?
    MICK
    15th Apr 2016
    7:52pm
    Legislation. Not rocket science. When the intention is to avoid tax then there is not much of an issue at all.....unless you have mates in government. And you claim that unions are the problem. Only the scapegoat to deflect attention from the real game.
    Adrianus
    15th Apr 2016
    9:47pm
    Legislation huh? Why do you suppose that in six years of whining and whinging about the issue that your beloved Labor Party did not legislate? They had the numbers and bragged about putting through more legislative changes than any other government in history?
    Anonymous
    16th Apr 2016
    2:56pm
    Because, Frank, the Labor Party has also adopted Neoliberalism - not quite to the same extent as the LNP, but sufficiently, until recently at least, to impede any valid attempt to legislate for fair taxation.

    Unfortunately, we are left with no valid choices of political leadership. Neoliberalism has taken over. It's seldom referred to by name, and the masses have no understanding of what it means, but maybe some will recognize it from this excellent definition:

    "Neoliberalism sees competition as the defining characteristic of human relations. It redefines citizens as consumers, whose democratic choices are best exercised by buying and selling, a process that rewards merit and punishes inefficiency. It maintains that “the market” delivers benefits that could never be achieved by planning.

    Attempts to limit competition are treated as inimical to liberty. Tax and regulation should be minimised, public services should be privatised. The organisation of labour and collective bargaining by trade unions are portrayed as market distortions that impede the formation of a natural hierarchy of winners and losers. Inequality is recast as virtuous: a reward for utility and a generator of wealth, which trickles down to enrich everyone. Efforts to create a more equal society are both counterproductive and morally corrosive. The market ensures that everyone gets what they deserve.

    We internalise and reproduce its creeds. The rich persuade themselves that they acquired their wealth through merit, ignoring the advantages – such as education, inheritance and class – that may have helped to secure it. The poor begin to blame themselves for their failures, even when they can do little to change their circumstances.

    Never mind structural unemployment: if you don’t have a job it’s because you are unenterprising. Never mind the impossible costs of housing: if your credit card is maxed out, you’re feckless and improvident. In a world governed by competition, those who fall behind become defined and self-defined as losers."

    Hmmm. Sound familiar?

    The source article, http://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+AUS+v1+-+AUS+morning+mail+callout&utm_term=167406&subid=11260329&CMP=ema_632
    is well worth reading.

    I don't entirely disagree with Neoliberalism. It has some merit. The problem is that it has been taken to devastatingly damaging extremes, and nobody now seems to have the courage to pull back and moderate it. Ultimately, common sense dictates that a mix of capitalism and socialism is essential for a healthy economy and society, but greed and selfishness guarantees that excessive neoliberalism with continue to prevail.

    I'll vote Labor next time around, only because I believe we have to get rid of the current LNP before they do too much further social and economic harm, but I don't much like the Labor Party and I really wish I had a viable alternative.
    rina1213
    14th Apr 2016
    10:29am
    No, do not cut company tax but DO cut Politicians wages
    Let them live within their means and not at the expense of the tax paying workers
    babyboomer
    14th Apr 2016
    10:58am
    Cut their many perks.
    moke
    14th Apr 2016
    2:27pm
    Don't just cut pollies wages cut all the lurks and perks of all the ex pollies and have them live like all other Ozzies e.g. find another job or live on their very healthy pensions and superannuation and retirement is the same age as all others.
    WOW! wouldn't we save some money then.
    bob
    14th Apr 2016
    10:32am
    To me it seems that all this government is there for is to make sure big business can make even more money for bonuses and ceo salaries.Maybe they should ensure that the entitlements of the people who work for business and make the money for them have their dues protected so they can rely on long service,holidays and superannuation being paid instead of being classed as an unsecured creditor while the boss can immediately start another business with the money he took from the company
    babyboomer
    14th Apr 2016
    10:57am
    I could not agree more. Employees should be paid out first because they cannot sustain the losses without it seriously affecting their lives.
    I think this would be a damned good new law to get in place.
    What do u think about trying for it??
    moke
    14th Apr 2016
    2:30pm
    Also when a big company goes bankrupt make sure that all that has been put aside or hidden including anything in the Wife's name is considered. so the workers can get some of what they have worked for and helped raise.
    Bonny
    14th Apr 2016
    3:18pm
    Take out a mortgage against the companies assets so that if it goes broke you get first bite of the cherry.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    3:36pm
    Nonsense Bonny! Do you even know what a mortgage is?
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    3:39pm
    Correct bob. The current government is owned by big business. That's why there are constant attacks on working Australians and constant attempts to lower corporate taxes, give business freebies, destroy the wages of average earners and destroy any opposition to the big end of town.
    It's a game! And workers are the suckers!
    HarrysOpinion
    14th Apr 2016
    4:03pm
    I think that Bonny means a "Caveat" not a mortgage, But to take it out and have it approved you need a strong legal reason.
    Bonny
    14th Apr 2016
    4:11pm
    No it's a type of mortgage over the assets of the company that is first line to be paid. I've never used it but I know it exists.
    tisme
    14th Apr 2016
    10:32am
    ive been saying that for so long now we have got to stop behaving like a bunch of dumbsuckers and turn on the polies. they wont change unless we make them lets start by making they live within our means
    babyboomer
    14th Apr 2016
    10:54am
    Agree of course. Aussies are too nice to their bullying leaders.
    moke
    14th Apr 2016
    2:32pm
    AAH! tisme please do not hold your breath, they would have no idea how to achieve that kind of life.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    3:43pm
    Need to start by ignoring the media which is controlled by big business. Voters should all pay careful attention to what has been going through as 'news' the past few months. All demonise Labor at every corner whilst promoting attacks on anything which protects society from the greedy rich. WE ALL NEED TO GAIN UNDERSTANDING as to how this game is being played.
    The solution: vote this bunch of puppets out en masse. That will send the right message. If they are returned then hell will break loose. Guaranteed if they also gain a majority in the senate.

    14th Apr 2016
    10:34am
    Most companies aren't paying their fair share anyway. Many very wealthy companies with huge profits pay nothing. Surely nobody is STUPID enough to think reducing the rate will make them more honest??? This government is not just morally bankrupt, it's totally incompetent. It MUST be removed. The sooner the better!
    babyboomer
    14th Apr 2016
    10:53am
    I'm over being an atm for the super rich
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    3:44pm
    I read last night that 8% of the world's wealth was sitting in Tax Havens around the world. Tells a story. Mosseko in Panama does not even make the top ten so one can imagine the degree of fraud happening.....whilst the bastards go after dirt poor citizens.
    Sceptic
    14th Apr 2016
    4:29pm
    AHs that been confirmed by the ATO Rainey, or is it just a thought bubble of yours?
    Anonymous
    15th Apr 2016
    9:29am
    Sceptic, don't you read or watch television? Of course the ATO has confirmed the extent of company tax evasion. And common sense tells us that with all the opportunities for business to escape taxes, there would not be ANY who were genuinely paying at the prescribed rate. Tell me honestly that you believe ANY business owner would not take stationery for his personal use without documenting it, make personal calls on a business phone, take a postage stamp from the business store... and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
    Retired Knowall
    15th Apr 2016
    12:43pm
    Hey Rainey, you are probably right about business owners using stationary, phone calls etc for their private use, BUT there would be 100 times as many employees pilfering the same and a whole lot more. Most employees that I worked with considered the bosses property fair game. You really should try to be a little bit more balanced instead of coming across as a bitter and twisted moron.
    MICK
    15th Apr 2016
    7:56pm
    Those items are small change knowall. The real game is on schemes of arrangement created by accountants and lawyers, and Tax Shelters none of which should be allowed to exist unless average citizens can also use them. The they'd be closed overnight.
    Anonymous
    16th Apr 2016
    7:44am
    Retired Know-NOTHING: I worked for 4 decades, and ran businesses that employed people, and I never once met an employee who had access to a tiny fraction of the tax reduction strategies commonly used by business. I believe very few employees pilfer, and claims that ''most employees I worked with consider the bosses property fair game'' suggest to me that you created an environment in which workers felt unfairly treated and resentful. Of those I employed, most were loyal and appreciative of opportunity, and would never steal from their employer. But then, they didn't need to. They were treated well.

    The issue under debate, though, is tax. And workers - barring perhaps the very high paid with investments on the side - don't have access to the wealth of evasion and reduction strategies that businesses routinely employ. And certainly they can't borrow from their own off-shore company at astronomical interest rates in order to dodge tax in Australia!

    You must be a very twisted person to throw such vile and untruthful insults at someone you know nothing about. And also quite ignorant, since tax evasion by companies has been very big news for some time now and there's been plenty of evidence of it - including formal confirmation from the ATO.

    For the record, though I've said it before, I am anything but ''bitter''. I have a great life and I'm very happy. But I'd like to see the government doing something for the benefit of the nation instead of solely for their filthy rich supporters. We need a healthy society, and that only comes when taxes are fair and everyone pays what their dues, and services and welfare systems are maintained adequately, and the system delivers fair rewards for endeavour and responsible living. This LNP, sadly, is pursuing the opposite of what good LNP governments pursued. I supported the LNP for a long time, because I believed they delivered more competent government. But THIS LNP has totally lost the plot.
    Anonymous
    16th Apr 2016
    8:13am
    BTW. Retired KnowNOTHING. Is Bernie Fraser bitter and twisted too? What about the other 50 ''prominent'' Australians who agree the Government is WRONG on this issue? All ''unbalanced'' and ''bitter and twisted''? All ''morons''?
    Retired Knowall
    16th Apr 2016
    10:50am
    Mick, the cost to Australian business is 1.5 Billion per year according to ASIC. The difference is one is theft the other is legal (perhaps not morally right but still legal.
    Rainey if you are so clever and forthright why do you continue to post dribble?
    if you have such a good business brain, how come you aren't self funded? Oh thats right it's the Government's fault,
    MICK
    16th Apr 2016
    3:42pm
    It sounds very much like you Retiredknowall are a part of the problem. If you have your finger in the pie then better not to make any comment. If not then at best your comment is backing the crooks. Sure business makes some interesting 'deduction', for want of another name. Wholesale tax evasion and some of the creative accounting are not in this league. THEY ARE THEFT. Better not to back them unless you are a crook as well.
    Anonymous
    17th Apr 2016
    5:03pm
    Retired KNOWNOTHING: What do you know about my financial circumstances. Oh, that's right. NOTHING AT ALL. You just keep making an ASS of yourself with baseless ASSUMPTIONS.
    wally
    14th Apr 2016
    10:46am
    Once again the devil is in the detail. Which companies are supposedly going to benefit from a tax reduction? Will it be small businesses that employ fewer than say 20 people? Will it be a one size fits all approach to taxation where every ABN business gets taxed at the same amount? Or will there be a uniform tax reduction proposed for all businesses, irregardless of size? For example, would Lefty's dry cleaning business be paying tax at the same rate as Google or Toyota?

    If you want an informed public, tell us how this is supposedly going to work instead of just telling us what has written on the back of a drink coaster during a night on the turps.
    babyboomer
    14th Apr 2016
    10:51am
    Good point
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    3:47pm
    wally...I thought you were smarter than this.
    The tax rate is the tax rate! The current rate is 30% and this applies to the first dollar they earn. The only way to avoid this rate is creative accounting and fraud. This is where the ATO needs to get LEGISLATION to disallow deductions and transfers to lower taxing regimes.
    How is this not clear!
    Sceptic
    14th Apr 2016
    4:42pm
    Another brilliant comment from the resident know all, mick.

    To sneeringly state to wally that the company tax rate is 30% just shows to the respondents on this site that you are nothing but a windbag.

    For a start, small businesses are taxed a 28.5 % and company tax varies between 15% and 45% depending upon the type of business that the taxpayer is involved in, as well as other factors, one of which is amount of revenue.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    4:49pm
    Thanks for the serve and the information.
    I was referring to the big business rate. Is that not what this discussion is about? Are you saying that the big business rate is not a flat 30%?
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    4:54pm
    Sceptic: I have checked out your post. Your information applies only to small business.

    1. "Since 1 July 2015, small businesses with aggregated turnover of less than $2 million have a tax rate of 28.5%."

    2. BIG BUSINESS HAS A FLAT RATE OF 30%....as I said previously.
    Adrianus
    14th Apr 2016
    4:58pm
    mick stop getting hot under the collar about fictitious nonsense. And stay away from the internet.
    wally, you're right, these stories are designed to whip up some hysteria in the feeble minded.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    5:28pm
    Nothing fictitious about some Australians rorting the system and the rest of us paying for it. And before you respond that does include many on welfare. Unlike you Frank I am fair.
    btony
    14th Apr 2016
    10:55am
    Company tax rates, wage reductions et al, never lead too more employment.The boss employs the same number of people to do the job they have been already doing,then pockets the rest.Note , the article quoted " could encourage businesses to invest more and help to grow the economy. Hardy har har, as if.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    3:50pm
    Of course. So why does anyone believe the Business Council when they get their snouts in front of the cameras and lie to the public about more jobs? Less tax will result in bigger houses, boats, investment properties and second holiday homes. Nothing else.
    Sundays
    14th Apr 2016
    11:02am
    Cut company tax and there will be more investment and an increase in jobs. Really? No, the companies would just make more profits and Australia would have a bigger deficit. It's the same as saying get rid of weekend penalty rates and the retail and hospitality sectors will hire more staff
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    3:54pm
    The biggest load of BS I have read all day. If you really believe this then you have had a snow job done well on you.
    The only thing lower taxes will achieve is more money to CEOs and Directors.
    If you want real jobs then you have to come up with a BUSINESS PLAN, something this government does not have. All that governments of both persuasion have done over the past 3 decades is to force businesses to close, send our jobs overseas and turn Australia into an importing nation (BAD) racking up debt to pay for these goods.....and of late services (overseas Call Centres, etc.). SOmebody please tell me what happens when there are no jobs left in the country? Coming!
    Lescol
    14th Apr 2016
    11:13am
    I am "stunned, shocked & appalled" to think that this government are even promoting another thought bubble. I am not into parties; just policies and the only way to change things; a formal vote and the current government gets placed last The right wing conservative group have exceed their use-by-date and have to be replaced.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    3:56pm
    This lot are left-overs from the Howard regime. Not just left-overs but vile, nasty, conceited, dishonest, deceitful, lying people owned by the big end of town.
    There is no 'government' happening for the nation. Only 'government' for big business. At every corner.
    VicCherikoff
    14th Apr 2016
    11:33am
    I agree with the comments below in
    1. cut the number of politicians
    2. reduce their wages and perks
    3. drastically cut their superannuation plans
    4. force those who remain to take long term views on decisions they make

    Put in some guidelines for politicians of any party - sustainability, environment, biodiversity and population control need to be smart policies, not just hot air.

    Cutting company taxes leaves the investment choices to the companies. Perhaps the taxes should be used better but unfortunately Kerry Parker was right. None of them spend OUR money very well.
    KSS
    14th Apr 2016
    12:27pm
    Points 1-3 would amount to such a small amount in the larger scheme of things. Undoubtedly it may make the electorate feel better but would actually achieve very little.

    Point 4 will never happen whilst we have a three-four year term of Government. All sides focus on getting into Government first and then when they do they focus on staying there. Actually running the country seems a low priority for regardless of which side of the fence they sit.

    Your list of guidelines are exactly that YOUR list. I would lay bets on the fact that there would be many who would not agree with your list and have their own. And therein lies the problem No-one agrees with anything ever. Playing obstructionist/protectionist politics is the name of the game. And has been for the past few years.
    leonYLC
    14th Apr 2016
    1:08pm
    Good point KSS,
    Maybe we could start by not calling the opposition, the 'Opposition'? Seems minor, but referring to the non-ruling party as the opposition would have a deeper psychological effect on how they deal with policy and the act of ruling the country.
    Thoughts?
    Bonny
    14th Apr 2016
    1:28pm
    Points 1-3 would probably raise enough to give each pensioner another cent a year.

    3 years is long term in parliamentary terms.
    Adrianus
    14th Apr 2016
    2:53pm
    leonYLC, I like that idea. During my lifetime, we pretty much have had an opposition which is always opposed to any solutions. Perhaps if we called them the competition or the alternative government it may induce a kind of Pygmalion effect?
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    3:59pm
    Really Frank? From what I recall Labor often takes a bilateral position whilst the Coalition votes against almost EVERYTHING. So who is giving the country some consideration and who is doing nothing more than grinding the nation into the ground? Pretty clear.
    Radish
    14th Apr 2016
    4:00pm
    Totally agree with all you have said KSS. Any savings to be made would be miniscule as there are
    150 in the House of Reps and 76 Senators...a total of 226.
    Tom Tank
    14th Apr 2016
    4:04pm
    Interesting point Frank although the current Opposition has put forward policies which by and large have been well received by economists in general. Obviously not by the Business Council of the Real Estate Institute.
    The previous Opposition were the ultimate in negativity and only during election time did they make promises on what they would do then promptly broke those promises.
    One would like to think that that will never happen again and that Parliament as a whole would be a constructive force for the good of the country.
    Must go as I have just heard that a squadron of pigs is about to start their flyover.
    Adrianus
    14th Apr 2016
    4:24pm
    They would be the pigs you are so fond of. The ones normally with their heads in the trough. I'm surprised the fat porkies can fly.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    4:29pm
    I'm glad you remember Tom. Some people seem to have forgotten. And yes the Business Council are out there for a 10% tax cut. I cannot believe that this greedy self interest group has the hide to even put up such a proposal.
    Adrianus
    14th Apr 2016
    5:06pm
    mick, this is the same Business Council which advocated higher pay for outstanding teachers. This is the same Business Council of Australia which backed Rudd's ETS.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    9:09pm
    Perhaps Frank but a 10% cut in the corporate tax rate would result in the inequality which has been steadily building for 30 years delivering a much lower standard of living for the non corporate and rich parts of society.
    There is something very wrong when right wing governments can turn citizens into paupers.
    The content of your post is the normal crap which passes for informed debate these days. "Outstanding teachers" have always existed but decades of state governments screwing the profession has resulted in the best of the new generation NOT becoming teachers and the old hands seeing out their days. Now we have some schools which cannot get specialist teachers.
    The ETS? Don't know. The Business Council would only have backed the ETS if it thought it could get something out of it.
    KSS
    14th Apr 2016
    12:28pm
    Taking out a full page newspaper ad two weeks before the budget.... Yup that will definitely make a difference to the financial plans already mapped out!
    leonYLC
    14th Apr 2016
    1:09pm
    And what are your recommendations KSS?
    KSS
    14th Apr 2016
    2:27pm
    How about we wait for the budget leonYLC before getting hot under the collar. Save the fighting for when it is needed, and don't waste energy moaning about something that is not yet certain is even in the budget.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    4:01pm
    And let's not start right wing sabre rattling after that KSS. The merits and implications of the Budget need to be fairly assessed. Not sure if you are on that page though. We'll see.
    Retired Knowall
    14th Apr 2016
    1:00pm
    I can't see any benefit lowering the Company Tax Rate. Far better to restructure the tax incentive for Capital Expenditure to encourage increased business spending particularly if that spending is on Australian Made Goods and Equipment. My proposition is that making Business Operation easier will encourage More Expenditure so the enterprise can be more Profitable and thereby pay more tax. A complete Cost/Benefit analysis of the current Rebates etc would undoubtedly reveal waste and counter productive practices.
    Bonny
    14th Apr 2016
    1:14pm
    It would not surprise that if Australia lowered the company tax rate to 10% a lot more tax would be raised. 30% is too high and that's why big companies doing business here pay their taxes in other countries with lower tax rates.
    Adrianus
    14th Apr 2016
    3:54pm
    That has been the experience in the USA and Canada each time. The other side effect was the creation of more jobs.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    4:08pm
    Comments straight from Liberal Party HQ.
    The experience in the US is no such thing. The US is in deep deep doo doo. That is why the US resorted to printing funny money. That has not worked either.
    To inform readers:

    1. the bottom end of earners in the US earn so little that they do not pay tax.
    2. the top end have ways and means to pay less than the lower end of the middle class. Warren Buffett commented a few years ago that he paid less tax then his secretary. Tells a compelling story.

    I just hate reading comments from right wing sponsored trolls. The reality of a 10% lower corporate tax rate is that CEOs and DIRECTORS will get massive pay increases which will end up in Tax Havens, bigger houses and boats, more investment properties and bigger share portfolios, etc. Nobody should believe that lower taxes for the rich are going to result in more jobs.....unless there is something in it for the rich.
    Tom Tank
    14th Apr 2016
    4:13pm
    Funny how in the U.S.A. the level od disaffection with the lot of the poorer people is the thing driving Trump's success and Bernie Sanders.
    So many jobs in the U.S. have gone overseas, as they have here.
    A company only employs as many people as they need, or slightly less than they really need. Any reduction in company tax will not change that fact.
    this mantra of lowering business costs will result in more jobs is a Furphy trotted out to justify the unjustifiable.
    The thing that will boost the economy is a greater level of spending so put more money into the pockets of the vast majority of the population, including increasing welfare payments.
    No I am not a Communist or even a Socialist but Capitalism as we see here in this country does not work as it is based upon the law of the jungle.
    Bonny
    14th Apr 2016
    4:16pm
    Mick if a company does well why shouldn't those that run the company prosper?

    To prosper a company will have employed more people, paid more taxes etc along the way.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    4:37pm
    Trump is prospering because he has promised to "end the corruption in Washington". People support him because they are sick of it and sick of the game which lets the rich avoid their taxes. But understand that the establishment will not allow Trump to change the game. I have already heard that the Republican delegates intend to pervert the political system (???) and give all of their votes to one of the candidates to stymy Trump. That may well be the start of a revolution.

    Bonny.....I sometimes see that you are not be the full quid.
    If a company earns more and pays its taxes (yeah right) then those who run it get to keep more, not less. What part of that are you incapable of comprehending?
    Adrianus
    14th Apr 2016
    4:45pm
    Tom Tank are you aware that only 20% of businesses in Australia have growth as a goal?
    That figure should be 80%!!!
    What do you think would be a catalyst to change that figure?
    We enjoy the jobs created by enterprises but we consider these entities as the enemy?
    What is wrong with that logic?
    Kind of reminds me of when I was a kid at school I was dux of the class because I was one of the few kids who wasn't ashamed of success. If you aspire to leadership then you're not part of the mob. People like to call others losers because they think it doesn't reveal anything about themselves.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    9:12pm
    Not rocket science Frank. The world is in depression. Not just in Australia.
    You are not the only one on the planet to have striven for success. There are many of us but that is not the issue we are about here.
    Snowflake
    14th Apr 2016
    1:28pm
    Let's just say it how it is. We have the worst Liberal government ever. I haven't seen such a collection of tossers in one government for a long time.
    I really can't work out how they come up with such a collection of 'policies' that hurt the working man with so little effort.
    By the way I watched a really good film last night called The Big Short and shows you what happened in America with the sub prime meltdown. Apparently, it is full on again only it's called something else. Hold on guys, the yanks are going to pull us down again within the next couple of years. Hold onto your cash and wait for the meltdown and then buy in, do what the rich do. You will remember these words.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    4:10pm
    What readers need to be looking for is the OBVIOUS CONNECTION between this government and the rich....and making the 'election funding' connections between the two.
    We desperately need a Federal ICAC to chase down the truth.
    Ayin
    14th Apr 2016
    1:56pm
    To get our message through vote against all sitting members left as the smart ones are getting out before they lose some of their entitlements that they gave themselves. Let them know that they are there for us. I would like to see the ability to remove a member with more than a 20% dissatisfaction rating?
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    4:12pm
    If we did not have INDEPENDENTS in the senate this low life government would have gotten some of the most abusive legislation in history through and it would have been law by now.
    Don't kick them all out. Just this government and any others who are clearly not representing the national interests.
    Sceptic
    14th Apr 2016
    4:50pm
    Great ideas you have mick,lets have more economic illiterates in the senate to join the current crop of independents. at least they even make people like you sound halfway sensible sometimes.
    roy
    14th Apr 2016
    4:58pm
    Vote independent. it's the only way forward.
    Adrianus
    14th Apr 2016
    5:21pm
    mick as an ex independent, what advice would you give for someone thinking of that career path?
    Anonymous
    14th Apr 2016
    5:47pm
    frank, mick being an independent, has to be the joke of the century!
    Adrianus
    14th Apr 2016
    6:42pm
    Well it's no joke. mick may be a lot of things but I've not known him to lie about himself and if he says he is an ex independent politician then I have to take that on face value.
    Bonny
    14th Apr 2016
    7:00pm
    Agree if mick was a independent pollie then as a Labor government I would be counting his vote before he voted.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    9:13pm
    ?????? Zzzzzzzzzzzzz..............
    particolor
    14th Apr 2016
    10:02pm
    ZZzzz SNORE ! ZZzzz SNORE !! :-)
    Bes
    14th Apr 2016
    1:58pm
    Company Tax???
    In Australia we suffer from OVER GOVERNMENT!
    The Westminster system bestowed upon Australia by England was originally designed as ONE government for ONE country. Upon Australia being surveyed and it's sheer size being established, England settled for SIX states to be governed separately by SIX state governments overseen by SIX state Governors. Fast forward to the 21st century!
    Why do we need SIX state governments that historically have proven that they do little other than incur debt?
    State governments are voted into power with a FOUR year tenure. Four years is the extent of future planning in which stop gap plans are introduced and certainly cost us dearly. (such as two lane freeway extensions with the provision for three lanes in the future? Along with infrastructure projects that incur cost blow out as being par for the course! etc.)
    State governments continually plan to sell off public assets! State governments, upon gaining power, continually raise prices! State government continually blames the previous party although there is little between their style of governance, other than the wording! All GOVERNMENT are elected to govern our taxes to the very best of their ABILITY in the best interests of both the state and the electorate (the voting public).
    SIX State governments, SIX State Opposition governments, a FEDERAL government and Opposition Federal government.
    NO POLITICIAN will lose entitlement no matter what cuts are made to the populations pensions and public services!
    Oh! And don’t forget to add local government to whom YOU pay your rates, (councils….31 in Perth) who feel at liberty to partake in National and International travel with little actual outcome, other than attendance to whatever will suffice in making the trip legal….by THEIR rules!

    So my question is, what is the biggest expenditure incurred by the Australian POPULATION?
    ATTEMPT to calculate the TOTAL cost of ALL of the above?
    AND then REALIZE that ALL of the above is PAID FOR by YOU.
    ALL of YOUR local services, YOUR state government and YOUR federal government is PAID for by YOU while they continue on an annual basis, to raise YOUR rates, sell YOUR public assets, and FAIL to manage, in YOUR best interests, YOUR collective taxes.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    4:16pm
    There has been talk in the recent past about doing away with state governments. If you think amalgamating councils was tough in NSW then try and get this one up. They all want to keep their jobs and will use every dirty trick to stop what is logical. And then there is the state public service to deal with. Imagine the unemployment from this? But we all know that the PS needs to be cut down to a sustainable level and who needs all of the useless reports which nobody reads and studies which are often little more than feel good BS anyway.
    FM
    14th Apr 2016
    2:03pm
    I agree babyboomer. The brazen contempt for people shown by this Government continues unabated. They have been talking of increasing taxes on retirees one way or another for the past two years to reduce taxes for business and high income earners. Remember Joe Hockey said he paid too much tax. They went in with an agenda of reducing the incomes of ordinary workers, the old, retired, students and the unemployed so that they could increase business profits and are still trying to stick to this agenda. They planned to target retirees in all three of their budgets, The first one targeted those who rely on the pension, the second those with defined benefit and lump sum superannuation the third was to increase taxes on retirees via their incomes and property. The latter aim, to increase tax on retirees may be deferred as it is an election year. However it has been so forcefully promoted by Peter Martin,the Grattan Institute and other think tanks acting as propaganda machines for the Government and business that if it does not go ahead now it will be back on the agenda for the next Budget. We need to make sure they are not the people setting the agenda after this election.
    Bonny
    14th Apr 2016
    2:16pm
    As a retiree this government has done nothing to reduce my income, increase my taxes or cut any of my benefits. So I have no idea what you are complaining about.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    4:18pm
    The power to change the future lies in the hands of voters. The real trick is to not be conned by the media which mostly spins the big end of town propaganda. Just listen to what the media has started on and you will be a wiser voter.
    Bonny
    14th Apr 2016
    4:27pm
    I certainly don't listen to the media myself. As for ads then they are wasted on me.
    Anonymous
    15th Apr 2016
    9:40am
    As a retiree, this stinking government has cut my income by $15,000 p.a. Obviously, Bonny, you belong to the privileged rich class who weren't attacked in the last budget. Good luck to you, but it's rather selfish and self-serving to ignore the reality of what has been done to hundreds of thousands of hard working Australians, many of whom are far, far worse off in income terms than pensioners and now forced to drain hard-won savings and go without the benefits they worked and saved for 40 years to attain - just so this disgusting government can give more to the slightly less well off who are still quite affluent and who have secure, inflation-adjusted incomes for life!

    What's worse. NOTHING has been done for the genuinely disadvantaged, and the hundreds of thousands affected by the STUPID means test change now have a massive incentive to spend up big in a hurry and get a higher income, without the worry of managing investment portfolios that seem to constantly shrink. Meanwhile the strong message to the not-yet-retired is ''unless you can make it to rich status, DO NOT SAVE for retirement. Give it away 5 years before pension age, or sink it into an expensive house (risky - that law might change!), take a costly cruise, or just hide it all under the bed. You suffer a huge penalty for keeping it and declaring it truthfully.

    Of course the result of this DUMB legislation change will be far more people on the pension drawing far more dollars and a far higher cost to the poor taxpayer. But the idiots in power can't see past the long noses they have buried in the trough!
    Not a Bludger
    14th Apr 2016
    2:06pm
    OMG - latte sipping lefties the lot of them - all of them a failed "something".

    This mob just cannot be taken seriously.
    Frank
    14th Apr 2016
    9:21pm
    Just wanted to let you the first to know mick that the government has developed a new election strategy. First, ministers are to not answer any incriminating questions but rather launch into making accusations against Labor. Second is to target all of the cross bench so that the government can smear and win their seats. That way it will have a rubber stamp and can do what it likes to ordinary Australians.
    As I said, just wanted to let you know what the Party is now doing. ANd of course we will all be lying like there is no tomorrow so that we can again deceive people who believe what they hear on TV.
    FM
    14th Apr 2016
    2:59pm
    Your income would not be reduced Bonny only if it did not come from a pension, a defined benefit pension under approximately $80,000 with other income over $50,000 or a lump sum below $800,000. Only people with low to average retirement incomes have had their incomes reduced significantly. The lower the income the greater the loss. There have been no changes for people with top end retirement incomes. It is hard to reply to a post that is all about how self satisfied and well off one person is, who judges her/himself to be more deserving than others and has no consideration or compassion for anyone else.
    Bonny
    14th Apr 2016
    3:06pm
    So only those on welfare have been effected?
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    4:19pm
    Top end? That includes Bronny above.
    Retired Knowall
    14th Apr 2016
    4:27pm
    What planet have you been on for the past few years?
    Anyone with investments directly in the share-market or solely in Super will have been adversely impacted. These are the Self Funded Retirees who have never had their snouts in the Tax Payers Trough.
    Bonny
    14th Apr 2016
    6:57pm
    Planet earth. This has probably been my worst year and I'm still doing way better than the term desposit rate so not sure what self funded retirees you are talking about.
    Frank
    14th Apr 2016
    9:24pm
    Me too Bonny. I want Mal to drop the corporate tax rate so that I can pay a lot less tax. My backup plan is to head to Bermuda so that I can pay no tax at all. Mal likes the Cayman Islands but I am leaning for a more tropical location. So Bermuda here I come.
    Bonny
    14th Apr 2016
    10:09pm
    Yes I do like the idea of paying less tax too. However I like the climate here Frank so not too keen about going to somewhere more tropical.

    Maybe I could become a world citizen and spent six months here and six months in New Zealand to escape the hot summer with a trip to Christmas Island for my annual holidays. Tax haven not needed then.
    Adrianus
    15th Apr 2016
    6:50am
    Bonny that was mick posting under the name of "Frank." mick is full of it.
    Anonymous
    15th Apr 2016
    9:45am
    Not much point trying to talk common sense, fairness, social conscience, or national benefit to greedy mongrels, FM. Obviously the greedy rich maintain their selfish, self-serving attitude no matter what facts are exposed about society as a whole. They care only for themselves.
    Adrianus
    14th Apr 2016
    3:09pm
    Yes, I would like to see an increase in the GST to 15%. A drop in the sub $2m company tax rate to 25%. A drop in individual/self employed income tax rates so that the top marginal rate is 25% same as the small business company rate. I would like to get rid of state and territory governments and continue to amalgamate Councils. I would like to see more flexibility from councils for development approvals.
    We have gone from a resourceful nation of doers, to one of making sure it is done in a certain way and with political correctness. We are drowning in our own regulatory mess. Who in their right mind wants to tackle all this red and green tape to start a business then get hammered by every authority known to mankind, just so you can create jobs for people who don't appreciate the risks you take as an employer.
    Bonny
    14th Apr 2016
    3:52pm
    I agree Frank. Starting a business is hard enough without all that multicoloured tape one has to cut through. Seems that even if you take the chance you battle is only just begun.

    Thank goodness for YouTube as I can't seem to get anyone to fix simple things for me any more as it costs so much for some one just to get onto a job before they do anything.

    Unfortunately like a lot of others things in this country today if you do anything you have to subsidise those who get effected by the change. That's why GST won't go to 15% anytime soon.
    Adrianus
    14th Apr 2016
    4:01pm
    We will always be subsidising those who have worked long and hard and paid more taxes than any of us. If they worked so bloody long and hard what have they got to show for it???
    That's right a caravan a kingswood and a $3,000,000 house. What a mess we're in!!
    Bonny
    14th Apr 2016
    4:04pm
    Exactly my thoughts Frank.
    Radish
    14th Apr 2016
    4:04pm
    I do not see any other option than raising the gst to 15%...have said this before. We cannot keep on borrowing and when the next "hit" comes and it will come, there will be no surplus to fall back on this time.
    Tom Tank
    14th Apr 2016
    4:18pm
    Good to see plenty of fight from the right wing. It is a pity that politician of that ilk are not as honest as Frank but try to disguise their intent with weasel words or even downright lies.
    This is not to say that those from the left don't do the same. Ah for an honest pollie but they are too bust having afternoon tea with the tooth fairy.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    4:19pm
    Yeah....the next message straight from Liberal Party HQ. Again.
    particolor
    14th Apr 2016
    10:18pm
    AH ! NO !! Not the Kingswood ! :-(
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    10:22pm
    And don't forget to polish the tow ball.
    Anonymous
    15th Apr 2016
    9:47am
    Of course the well-to-do want to see GST increased. Transfer the burden of taxation to the poorest and take nothing from the greedy well-to-do. The selfish rich want regressive taxation, so they can have a bigger house, a bigger yacht and more hoarded in Panama. I can't wait for the day when the rest of society says ''Enough'' and decides it's time for another revolution. Has to happen!
    Glennie Boy
    14th Apr 2016
    3:31pm
    Richard Denniss in his book, Econobabble, cites wealthy citizens as suggesting that tax cuts will make rich people (and companies!) work harder and thus increase the incomes of poor people!
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    4:20pm
    ????????????????????????

    I guess some people are easy to fool.
    FM
    14th Apr 2016
    3:34pm
    Bonny, for shame, your remark says all there is to say about you. It is as stupid as it is offensive. There are many people who have not been affected or only minimally affected so far but they are not sneering at less well off people who have probably worked harder than you have and contributed more to society all their lives.
    All retirees will be affected if the mooted tax changes that are targeted exclusively at retirees are enacted.
    Bonny
    14th Apr 2016
    3:40pm
    If people worked so hard and contributed so much why are they now on welfare?

    The changes will only effect those who don't change their affairs to take advantage of the changes.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    4:26pm
    Hey FM.....who do you think Bonny and Frank are? It is clear from reading several years of posts from these two (one?) people that we have trolls on the site.

    Do you remember the stories from Russia where President Putin was shown to have established a very large double story building which housed an army of trolls. Their purpose was to get onto public forums (like this one) and trash any comments which were anti government as well as backslap others which were pro government. I hope you can see that we have the same scourge in Australia as well. It is what it is.
    Anonymous
    14th Apr 2016
    6:21pm
    when labor mick's answer to a comment is" you are a troll", be proud, you have not just a different view as opposite to labor but it shows him up of not being an independent candidate, with other words, he is labor through and through
    roy
    14th Apr 2016
    7:51pm
    I am commie through and through not a labor troll, a troll is somebody who doesn't agree with me, period.
    Frank
    14th Apr 2016
    9:29pm
    My instructions from Liberal Party HQ is to not to overdo it heemskerk. The party is not going to pay us if we are found out acting badly. I think it is better that we wait for Mal to drop the company tax rate. That will be real good for a couple of hacks like us.
    I am a bit worried that if Labor wins there may be some new media laws brought in to stop some of the lies we are spreading being published so let's continue to destabilise Labor. Mum's the word. And if anybody asks us incriminating questions to which we have no answer then just make some allegation against Labor. That we we can tell as many lies as we like and not have to answer anything. That is what HQ want us to do.
    Anonymous
    17th Apr 2016
    5:08pm
    Bonny, how, precisely would you suggest people take advantage of the change? I spoke to a financial adviser who said 96 out of 98 clients who will be affected planned to blow a few hundred grand on luxury cruises, then come back and get the pension. Apart from that, he could suggest gifting (and losing for 5 years), selling the house and buying an expensive mansion (risky, given possible further changes), or couples separating and each having a separate family home.

    The bottom line is that the government left very little wriggle room for anyone already at, over or close to pension age. And the changes ARE detrimental. They will INCREASE pension costs, because they destroy incentives to save and encourage those who did to spend up big so they can get a pension and benefits, rather than battling on half the income pensioners receive while their savings slowly dwindle.

    EVERYONE will be affected, because pension costs will skyrocket.
    Snowflake
    14th Apr 2016
    5:46pm
    I wish I hadn't hit the button to send me comments.
    Anonymous
    14th Apr 2016
    6:24pm
    nothing wrong with being honest in your believes
    Bonny
    14th Apr 2016
    6:53pm
    I haven't clicked that button for yonks now. I just leave the site open and read when I have a few spare minutes.
    roy
    14th Apr 2016
    7:55pm
    Let them eat cake and vote independent, I'm off on my second holiday overseas this year shortly, stuff the poor I say.
    roy
    14th Apr 2016
    7:57pm
    I just hope the snow in Brackenridge is better this year than last otherwise I'll take a chopper ride to Lake Louise and hope for the best.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    9:52pm
    That you Bronny? Got another helicopter? Well done. Did you get taxpayers to pay again? And I hear you are running again and that preselection in your electorate is being manipulated so that the members have no say.
    particolor
    14th Apr 2016
    8:04pm
    I live within my means about Nothing Left a fortnight within it !! :-(
    roy
    14th Apr 2016
    8:07pm
    You should have not spent so much on beer, ciggies and pokies when you were younger, the chickens have come home to roost.
    particolor
    14th Apr 2016
    8:13pm
    But what an Enjoyable Life I've had ! And now don't have to Worry about the Government and Banks and Super Stealing My Life Long Savings !! :-) :-)
    roy
    14th Apr 2016
    8:18pm
    You only have to worry or should about capital letters in all the wrong places in your postings on this sit.
    particolor
    14th Apr 2016
    8:47pm
    I don't (sit) here very often now ! And Capitals are an Emphasizing letter ! Well they are to me anyhow ! Its my new Personal PC :-)
    Like the government I don't care much about anyone anymore and as long as I retire in Comfort, I'm All Right Jack ! :-)
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    9:54pm
    parti: that is Frank posting under my name again mate. Neither of the above are from me.
    particolor
    14th Apr 2016
    9:59pm
    Yeah ! I thought it was Hannibal Lactogen !! :-)
    But we may as well have the Sugar Plum Fairies as a Government as that lot !! :-)
    Dot
    14th Apr 2016
    8:38pm
    Nothing like screwing the working class while the rich get richer and hide their monies over seas. Boy would I love to see a revolution in this country.
    Adrianus
    14th Apr 2016
    8:57pm
    Is it just me or does anyone else feel like the communists are trying to take over?
    particolor
    14th Apr 2016
    9:00pm
    What you mean Trying Willis ??
    Frank
    14th Apr 2016
    9:33pm
    Actually Dot I am here to cause havoc. Posting under multiple and other user's names is my newest strategy. That way readers will give up.
    Anonymous
    16th Apr 2016
    7:29am
    Communists trying to take over? The Communists HAVE taken over the LNP. This Government is as Communist as it gets. Bash the upper-class worker and middle class and feed the rich. Keep the poor down with minimal services, expensive education, and minimal welfare - just enough to prevent revolution. Oh, and don't forget - plenty of lies. Lies about everything. That's always been the real Communist mantra, and this LNP is pursuing it admirably. Even their own past eminent leaders have decried their change in policy and disassociated themselves from the new style Communist-driven - whoops, sorry, IPA-driven - policies.
    Adrianus
    16th Apr 2016
    8:36am
    Many ALP ministers were also members of the communist party. I thought we were headed that way when Julia Gillard hired 1600 on line trolls.
    mick, stop posting nonsense under the name "Frank" like the one which appears directly above Rainey's post.
    I am not here to cause havoc. I post under only one name. I encourage people of all walks in life never to give up, regardless of how tough it is. I almost did but I have snapped out of it with a new and vigorous vitality. I still carry the pain but I wear my scars with pride and dignity.
    Bonny
    16th Apr 2016
    1:18pm
    Frank don't forget lots of the female Labor pollies owe lots to Emily's list too.
    Adrianus
    16th Apr 2016
    1:55pm
    Bonny when an Emily's lister gets to the top they are beholding to the list. I think it's origins are American? That could be the reason so much of Australian's tax money was paid to the Clinton Foundation? I doubt there would be anyone who gets to the top who would not be beholding to someone or some group, regardless of their politics.
    Perhaps not too many would have noticed the share price of Slater & Gordon jumped a massive 14.5% on Friday. Yep back up to the grand figure of $0.27, a far cry from the $7.80 a year ago. What that has to do with anything I don't know? I guess I was reminded of a time a few short years ago when they were opening so many offices around the country. We were supposed to be having a GFC and they were sprouting like mushrooms on every street corner.
    MICK
    16th Apr 2016
    3:55pm
    More crap from Frank the deceiver. Next advertising campaign from the Liberal Party?
    Bonny
    17th Apr 2016
    3:26pm
    Frank I remember getting a phone call from a broker saying Slater & Gordon was a buy at $4. I looked at the chart and said I didn't like it chart so they said that I should believe them not the chart. Funny I haven't heard form that broker since.

    There is just too much litigation these days. I heard of someone wanting to sue Aldi because they got charged a 50c surcharge because they use paywave with their debit card.
    MICK
    17th Apr 2016
    4:10pm
    Defies belief.
    Janus
    14th Apr 2016
    9:06pm
    I wonder how many of the ranters above voted Liberal Last time?

    The basic philosphy of the conservatives is to reduce taxes (sounds good) but also to reduce services (like health, education, social services etc). This freedom from government interference in our lives that they would give us, would COST us more, but we would have more in our pockets from less tax, right?

    Unless you are unable to work for some reason in cluding illness, lack of opportunity or capacity or whatever, or are a pensioner, or a self funded retiree. Then you suffer, but nobody cares. The services you want or need might be there, as somebody will want to make a profit from them. All you have to do is PAY for them. Tell that to the suckers in remote areas, or those without the smarts to earn big money, or those who have illnesses, or were born poor.

    Conservatives like to think that money is the best incentive to get people to work. Everything has a dollar value. What you want you should pay for. What are we, a nanny state?

    I wish we were. It's also called caring. I try to care.
    Bonny
    14th Apr 2016
    9:49pm
    Ok I confess I didn't vote Liberal last election.
    particolor
    14th Apr 2016
    10:12pm
    Well I most certainly didn't ! Any Polly that starts their War Campaign with "There will be no cuts to Bla Bla Bla " Isn't even worth a Hearing ! :-)
    MICK
    16th Apr 2016
    3:56pm
    And those that did were either rusted on liberals, gen Ys wanting the paid parental leave scheme or suckers who were conned by a lying snake oil salesman.
    Adrianus
    16th Apr 2016
    4:24pm
    Rainey has always voted LNP.
    MICK
    16th Apr 2016
    8:55pm
    Many people may have voted LNP in the past but the current bunch have deceived so many and tried to turn others into paupers so those who have understanding will not make the same mistake again. This government is gone. Deceive as you and it will.
    Anonymous
    17th Apr 2016
    5:15pm
    Not ALWAYS, Frank, but I have voted LNP more often than not. I won't again. The current LNP is NOT Liberal. Their policies are ''neoliberal'', and as dangerous and socially and economically destructive as it gets.
    FM
    14th Apr 2016
    9:21pm
    Hi Mick
    I agree there are trolls on the site. I thought at first some of the 'I'm alright Jack posts' that show no understanding of retirement were provocative posts from members of The Life Choices Team but they are more likely, as you say, from the defenders of Government. I even thought Bonny might be Bronny but the language/spelling is unlikely to be Bronny's and even she is less self serving. Unlike Vladimir Putin the LNP does not have to pay its trolls.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    9:47pm
    Thanks FM. It's pretty obvious methinks.

    What is really sad is that the YLC management is unable to,

    1. prevent posters using multiple names
    2. prevent posters using other poster's names, and
    3. ban the obvious trolls posting political propaganda on behalf of their political party.

    I'd love to see the site cleaned up. The real risk is that nobody will come here if it is not. We need discussion, not propaganda from political parties of any denomination.
    Bonny
    14th Apr 2016
    10:02pm
    I certainly must be a problem.

    I only use my own name and don't post an political propaganda on behalf of any party. All ideas I express are mine and mine only.

    I guess my only fault is that I have ideas that others may not agree with. Guess what you too have ideas I don't agree with either.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    10:24pm
    Ideas never a problem. Facts help.
    roy
    15th Apr 2016
    10:11am
    Vote independent.
    Forum Moderator
    15th Apr 2016
    12:59pm
    Hi Mick,

    Thanks for expressing your concern. We do try to keep the site as liberal (in the actual sense of the word) as possible when it comes to allowing people to express their opinions. But our role is not to play censor and, at the end of the day, we are all adults, although sometimes it may not seem that way.

    We will continue to do our best to keep the site 'clean', but there will always be trolls, no matter which site you visit. If everyone can just refrain from attacking each other but, rather, 'have a go' at the argument and not the person, the site should almost regulate itself.

    MPMod
    Adrianus
    15th Apr 2016
    1:17pm
    Isnt it interesting that anyone who says anything complimentary about the government is a troll. Anyone who states something positive about Labor and the Unions is not a troll. Is it possible to have a positive opinion of the government's behaviour without being abused?
    Perhaps I should be like others I have noticed and simply stop posting?

    mick, you do yourself a disservice by posting under my name.
    MICK
    15th Apr 2016
    2:56pm
    Thanks Moderator. Words of wisdom. Sadly it does become a war zone when misleading propaganda dressed up as comment appears.
    You need to perhaps have your IT person disallow the use of registered usernames by another posters. That helps!
    The very last comment from Frank has an apparent response from me...but not from me!! Also the comment directly above your post is also not from me despite being in agreement to my sentiments.

    Is it possible to send ANY POSTER FROM TODAY ON who uses other people's names a warning and then block them if they persist? I am happy to abide by the rules. Not too sure about Frank and those who peddle political hate.
    Bonny
    15th Apr 2016
    4:00pm
    It seems to be that if you disagree with some people on this forum you are a troll and post on part of the LNP. I only post under my name "Bonny" as I can't see any reason to do otherwise.

    I'd like to see some more consideration and respect given to those who have different views that some of the other posters.
    Adrianus
    15th Apr 2016
    6:54pm
    mick, may I ask what you mean by........"The very last comment from Frank has an apparent response from me...but not from me!! " ??
    particolor
    15th Apr 2016
    7:22pm
    Hmm ? Is a Trollonoptomy covered by Medicare ? :-)
    Adrianus
    15th Apr 2016
    9:02pm
    No it's nothing medical. It's from him..... but not from him. I would say he's been listening to Malcolm Turnbull. It's the same but it's different.
    Circum
    14th Apr 2016
    10:02pm
    The facts are that the country is in debt big time.That debt needs to be reduced.The current government seems incapable and unwilling to rectify the inequities.Maybe this is because they do not want to upset those better off who benefit from the current inequities.Instead they pick on more vulnerable targets like old aged persons(previously called pensioners) and now rips off their benefits and calls them self funded retirees.Thanks Mr Abbott for allowing us to help reduce the national debt.Thanks also to Mr Shorten for not offering to reverse the rip off.
    Given the debt situation the country needs to cut costs (preferably from non value adding activities) and to increase tax.An across the board personal income tax increase would be my choice.I agree that wouldnt be popular but I see it as a necessity.Easy to implement and fairer
    Adrianus
    15th Apr 2016
    7:16am
    Circum, The facts are quite different. The unions when in government did nothing about multinational tax but complain. This current government has recognised that it is a global issue similar to terrorism and is working with other like minded nations to bring trade and tax regimes into balance with those rogue nations left to minimal trade and their low corporate tax. What do you think these trade deals are about? It is more complex than simply insisting that google pay tax in every country when their HQ is in Ireland and their operation is in cyber space.
    You are forgetting that Abbott introduced a budget repair tax on high wage earners as soon as he was elected, while at the same time increasing pensions.
    MICK
    15th Apr 2016
    11:06am
    The normal BS. Let's talk about THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT. End of story.
    The current trade deals are already known to be deals between this government and the multinationals. GetUp has commissioned an INdependent Analysis given that this government seeks to hide what they do not want citizens to see.
    Abbott did little to fix the rorts from the big end of town and came after average citizens who earn zilch like a drug addict after the next fix.
    Your post is the normal stuff that trolls produce Frank. You are a disgrace to call yourself an 'Australian'. What you are is a paid stooge.
    Adrianus
    15th Apr 2016
    12:08pm
    How could a bunch of ex union bosses possibly put a trade deal together which advantages Australia?
    mick, how could you possibly understand the meaning of the word independent?
    MICK
    15th Apr 2016
    2:44pm
    They could probably not sell out the country to multinationals in exchange for election funding. Your lot have kept the deal a secret and never released an appraisal. So what is hidden?
    No trade union would sell out this country. The big end of town will as it will simply move capital to Tax Havens and leave the nation in tatters. That is who you are taking your payments from Frank.
    Adrianus
    15th Apr 2016
    3:03pm
    mick who is my lot and who am I taking payments from again?
    Anonymous
    15th Apr 2016
    4:19pm
    mick you are right no union would sell out this country, it is easier to steal and pocket the members fees
    MICK
    15th Apr 2016
    5:11pm
    Liberal Party not working for the nation. Only its big business mates. Union bashing nothing more than attempts to shift attention from the main game: giving multinationals carte blanche. More money. No amount too big. $8 billion to coal industry. More with attacks on working conditions. Tax cuts for the rich.
    Unions? not even in the same league.
    Adrianus
    15th Apr 2016
    6:21pm
    mick, so you approve of the unions methods. No surprises there!
    MICK
    15th Apr 2016
    7:41pm
    And you put words into peoples mouths just like the government does. Same brand!
    In Outer Orbit
    14th Apr 2016
    10:04pm
    Just for interest, where businesses decide to invest and grow in the Northern Hemisphere seems to turning into a bun fight over which government will offer the lowest Corporation Tax. Ireland dropped to 18%, one of the very lowest, and became a 'Celtic Tiger' on the back of the inflow of investment. The UK is trying to catch up now, dropping from 20%, which is more typical, to 18%.

    So the policy is not a bad one, if the intention is to grow the economy out of deficit.

    Also bear in mind that a lot of these corporations are publicly listed, so bigger profits mean dividends to shareholders, and that is everyone's super.

    Also bear in mind that these are big employers - companies doing better can be better bigger employers, which is a rising tide that lifts all boats.

    BUT, and this is a big but for Australia; this is not an EU situation where there are 28 local countries to choose to invest in, and where the money automatically flows to the most attractive spot. What are the businesses that are going to pour into Australia just for a tax break? It isn't going to make a blind bit of difference to the mining bedrock of the economy, which is driven by international commodity prices, end of story.

    I'd say Australia needs to ride out the current commodity down-cycle trying not to increase the national debt further than necessary, and so yes everyone must tighten their belts, equally. THEN, in the next up-cycle remember that it won't last and so tax the hell out of the winners and establish a Sovereign Wealth Fund to carry public spending thro the next down cycle. Remember the 7 fat cows and the 7 thin ones. They didn't try to fix the problem in the lean years.

    The real problem is the election cycle is longer than the economic cycle, so the system is not fit for purpose. Doomed to boom and bust I fear.

    World Government seems the only real answer to inequality.
    MICK
    14th Apr 2016
    10:30pm
    Legislate to force corporation to pay tax in the countries they operate in and the race to the bottom would end. The real problem in Australia is that coalition governments are owned by the rich and big business and Labor does not have the backbone to stand up to the media which is launched at them by the wealthy owners who control it. So the greedy rich continue to transfer profits to Tax Shelters and places which have negligible tax regimes. That leaves our country with only one option: tax struggling citizens and the poor. Morally corrupt behaviour from harlots in suits elected to govern the country. Betrayal is all that we get!
    particolor
    14th Apr 2016
    10:36pm
    Never before have so many been Betrayed by so few !! :-(
    In Outer Orbit
    14th Apr 2016
    10:58pm
    Totally agree with your analysis Mick, and parti.

    True in Australia and true in many Northern countries too. It's the same Corporations and Media Moguls pulling the same stunts in every country that will let them. Obama tried to get some sense and social justice in the US and the right wing / big business have effectively paralysed him via the House of Representatives. Representatives of who exactly?

    Once we've let Corporate moguls, media or otherwise, consolidate the power to be able to make or break political careers, democracy and the interests of all the 'little' people are completely lost. That's where we're at now and its exactly the same in most of Europe, and where it's approaching in the US.

    Media consolidation, information superpowers, big data - they are changing the world as we knew it, democracy and all.

    World government, one open market, open borders etc. Until then we're just going to have to carry on squabbling among ourselves over the scraps that are left to us and gnashing our teeth at the injustice.
    Adrianus
    15th Apr 2016
    7:30am
    The unions lead by Kevin Rudd went to the election in 2013 with a promise to cut corporate tax to 15% but only in Northern Territory.
    MICK
    15th Apr 2016
    11:11am
    The Rudd government realised it could not cut taxes. The GFC ended that. Now despite a claimed "Budget Emergency" we see your employ wanting to increase taxes for less well off Australians and give the already very highly paid top end of town and multinationals a huge huge tax decrease. So has the "budget Emergency" conveniently disappeared? We all understand the game: transfer all wealth to the rich like in America. This is where you Frank and your Party bosses need to move to.
    Adrianus
    15th Apr 2016
    12:18pm
    mick, the labor government realised a lot of things they couldn't do.
    They could not stop the boats without starting WW111.
    They could not stop people from drowning without killing millions.
    They could not balance the budget. Even when they thought they had.
    They could not go for 6 months without a cabinet reshuffle.
    They now cannot stop themselves from closing another industry. Yes the poor bloody truckies. Whyalla is stuffed, our resources sector is in pain, and all they can think of is to close down another industry.
    Where's the singing Craig Emerson trying to make fun out of Whyalla's 7,000 job losses? Wreckers! High taxing wreckers!!
    MICK
    15th Apr 2016
    12:43pm
    Your normal spiel Frank: talk a whole pile of stuff out of context and it sounds plausible. My response to this piece:

    1. Labor did not stop the boats. I wrote to Gillard and Swan a few times and put it to them that Labor would lose the next election if it did not address this issue. Labor did lose.
    2. Please tell me the position when Labor left and the current one. We now have no GFC to contend with and the country has a significant amount of debt created by Abbott and his cronies. You know that. And for the record I again ask how many of your extended family were thrown out of work during the GFC? None ? I thought that too.
    3. Labor pursued the NBN. Abbott wanted and tried his best to kill it off. That would have turned us into a third world nation with business crying about not being able to do business because the network was dead.
    4. Abbott kept crowing about how the coalition did not remove serving PMs. He was knifed by his own and you never hear about that any more do you!
    5. Closing industries? You must be bleeding half wit Frank. Ford is closing down. Last fridge off the assembly line last week. Optus sacking 500 workers. And you accuse Labor of closing the country down. In the meantime you have the government allowing foreign governments to buy our best freehold farming land. How do you think that is going to end in 50 to 100 years time: start training the troops!

    As normal Frank BS, BS and more BS. Rusted on Liberal Party hacks and employees cannot and will not look at the world with 20/20 vision. Whilst Labor did a lot wrong what it did not do is ask taxpayers for $8 billion a year in lieu of the Carbon Tax which WAS changing our energy mix to be renewable. Now we pay the coal industry an effective subsidy to pollute like there is no tomorrow. You and your side of politics disgust me Frank. And you have the hide to call yourself an Australian when you serve the big business machine and sell out our nation.
    Bonny
    15th Apr 2016
    2:50pm
    Mick we now live in a world economy not a closed Australian economy. Unless we adjust to living in the world economy we are in big trouble. Going forward unless we stop being a nation of people depending on welfare the things will only get worse.

    I actually think our PM is on the right track with his innovation ideas in that innovation leads to more productivity with same resources. What would you prefer low wage growth or a fall in wages or further improvements in productivity? Less face it we have lost some many industries because we simply cannot compete in the world economy.
    Adrianus
    15th Apr 2016
    3:13pm
    Bonny you are making sense. The carbon tax was designed to drive many businesses out of business. When Tony Abbott said to Labor look what you're doing to Whyalla Steel Works, look what you're doing to Whyalla. Craig Emerson made up a song and all the stupid people thought it was funny.
    But it's not funny and you are absolutely correct, we need the LNP to sell Australia. They're our best chance.
    Bonny
    15th Apr 2016
    3:48pm
    Unions are part of the reason we are in such a mess today. They made it harder and harder for anyone to run a business in Australia until it just became uncompetitive to do so. I didn't agree with the clothing industry outsourcing to work at home people but as history shows us it was far better than what is happening I the sweat shops of Asia. What's more that money made was spent in our economy.
    Adrianus
    15th Apr 2016
    5:11pm
    mick, the unions served a purpose many years ago but now are simply gatekeepers we need to pay. Just like an organised crime gang we pay protection money to.
    MICK
    15th Apr 2016
    7:44pm
    I see you are posting under my name again. You are pretty transparent Frank. So are you other posts under different names.
    Sadly this government has little of anything worth a vote and all it can come up with is union bashing whilst ignoring the big end of town's rorts and attacking the cross bench before an election to try and get voters to vote for them.
    Laughable!
    Anonymous
    16th Apr 2016
    7:20am
    All this union-bashing intrigues me. I hate unions. They caused me a lot of grief. But why do they exist? Why were they formed in the first place?

    Use some common sense, you LNP-lovers. If employers and government hadn't failed the worker dismally, unions would never have been formed. If they didn't continue to fail the worker, unions would not survive.

    When corruption, bullying and exploitation by government and business stops, unions will die.

    We don't need inquiries or laws to destroy union power. We simply need for business and government to do the right thing by the people. But that will NEVER happen. The government and business wants it BOTH ways. Freedom to exploit and abuse, and protection from any vehicle of defence for the worker. So we have inquiries and demands for laws that ONLY address union corruption - not the massive corruption by big business and government. Oh no! The LNP could NEVER admit to that problem, let alone make moves to address it.

    If they ever succeed in destroying union power other than by fixing the problems that gave rise to it, there will be another kind of worker revolution. I predict whatever might replace Unions would be far more of a threat to those currently disturbed by Union practices.
    Adrianus
    16th Apr 2016
    8:14am
    Rainey, I personally don't want the unions to be destroyed I simply want them to behave differently. ALP state governments are one of the biggest offenders of worker's rights. They have become nothing but a power base to ride rough shod when not in government. This is an election year so we can expect plenty of strikes. These strikes are designed to inconvenience us and are nothing but political.
    MICK
    16th Apr 2016
    4:03pm
    Yeah right Frank. And you want big business to be controlled as well? I thought not. They are free to use their tax shelters and leave ordinary Australians to carry the tax burden? I thought so.
    The truth is you and this bad bad coalition government seek to control the unions so that they become compliant lapdogs the same as the media and then sell out workers so that big business can push wages in this country down to $10 an hour as is the case in the US. And lets not forget reducing holidays to 2 weeks a year, no guaranteed hours and no overtime. That is what you seek.
    Anonymous
    17th Apr 2016
    4:59pm
    I'd like big corporations to behave differently, Frank. Like paying their fair share of taxes. And it would be nice if politicians and bureaucrats behaved differently too. Some honesty and integrity would be really good. Maybe it should start at the TOP. Maybe if politicians stopped their greed and corruption, others might follow their example?
    Adrianus
    17th Apr 2016
    7:40pm
    You know what Rainey? I think you are right!! I agree with that!! We need strong leadership and it needs to come from all leaders.
    Adrianus
    15th Apr 2016
    9:06am
    I don't take much notice of Bernie Frasers political nonsense.
    Let's deal with facts shall we?
    In 2014 the Abbott government had policy settings which helped create 301,000 jobs.
    Compare this with the 80,000 in the last 12 months of Labor.
    More jobs means more prosperity, improved infrastructure, increased welfare.
    Lower tax rates mean higher productivity. Higher productivity means higher tax revenue!
    This government should be allowed to continue it's job of fixing the problems created by a self - serving egocentric union government lead by Bill Shorten with the token leaders Rudd and Gillard, then Rudd again. I don't know about the rest of you, but I was getting sick to the back teeth of that mob snivelling and crying about their own incompetence and their inability to stand for something. I have not voted for a long time, because I have a problem with the "above the line con trick" but I love this country too much not to vote now.
    Not Senile Yet!
    16th Apr 2016
    11:03am
    Vote this mob of party puppety. OUT!
    No more party votes for me. The more Indepedents the more Community Fairness!
    Stick it up the lot of them!!!!
    roy
    16th Apr 2016
    1:13pm
    Yes, let's vote the union puppets on a string in, God bless the once great Australia. RIP.
    roy
    16th Apr 2016
    1:14pm
    The Stan Laurel love child for PM yeah.
    MICK
    16th Apr 2016
    4:10pm
    THE ABOVE TWO POSTS ARE FROM FRANK, NOT ME!
    Our government is making unions the centrepiece of its election campaign so that they can deflect attention from their financial relationship with big business. Voters need to watch as Turnbull and his cronies refuse to discuss their performance other than with lies and slogans. They will not agree to closing Tax Shelters. The fact that Malcolm Turnbull has one says it all. Birds of a feather fly together!
    No amount of anti union posts above and BS can avoid voters looking at what this dishonest government has done over the past 3 years.
    Adrianus
    16th Apr 2016
    4:20pm
    mick that is not me. I post under one name only, always have.
    The Unions have put the workers union fees up so that they will have a war chest to fight this election. They chipped in $10m to get Rudd elected because Shorten wasn't ready. His public speaking skills required the polish that only experience provides. He wasn't quite ready to replace Gillard either so they wheeled Rudd back in to take a whipping. Australians aren't stupid. They will show Shorten what they think of the way he and his union mates handled things last time. Anyone but Shorten!
    MICK
    17th Apr 2016
    4:16pm
    And the ope is not a catholic either Frank!
    Let's talk about how much money big business throw into Liberal Party coffers and what the payback is. The Carbon Tax? Protect the big banks? Reduce corporate taxes? Attack working conditions of the lowest paid?
    Yeah Frank. Let's compare apples with apples. If you want to talk about CORRUPTION which needs jail sentences then let's talk about the 'fraud' existing between the big end of town and this government of Howard leftover rats. And then let's talk about Liberal Party ex MP Chris Hartcher who get caught money laundering for the Liberal Party................ WE NEED A FEDERAL ICAC!!
    The above makes unions look like a kid's birthday party.
    ex PS
    21st Apr 2016
    5:26pm
    Frank, of coarse the Unions support Labor, just as big business and the banks support the LNP. Do you not understand the basic concept of party politics?
    It may surprise you but the Unions and Labor support the workers and big business and the LNP support the wealthy. It's not a revelation, I don't understand why you are constantly bringing it up. Do you really think that the Unions will one day donate to the LNP, that will be the same day that the mining companies start donating to the labor party.
    And befrore you start whining about Unions donating to the Labor Party without consent, you should know that such donations can't be made without the members consent.
    Keep it in balance
    16th Apr 2016
    2:40pm
    Folks the equation is simple - worldwide corporate tax is been reduced. Australia has one of the highest corporate tax rates. We have to compete on the world stage. USA is facing the same challenge. Secondly if we want to take the European route of socialism then lets keep the taxation at the current level. Stagnation awaits our grandkids. QED
    MICK
    16th Apr 2016
    4:11pm
    Are you for real KIS? A race to the bottom? Please tell me where it ends when all countries are sitting on a 5% tax rate? Obvious dear Watson.
    Adrianus
    17th Apr 2016
    9:20am
    mick you don't give up do you? You are so brainwashed with an antiquated union ideology that will not work in a modern global economy. I think it was Albert Einstein who said we cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
    Or to put it another way...
    If R=success,
    then R = X + Y + Z.
    with X being work, Y play,
    and Z keeping your mouth shut.
    MICK
    17th Apr 2016
    4:21pm
    Read the above Frank. You really are feeble minded to trot out the propaganda you do.
    You sort of remind me of the biblical account of the pharisees and scribes having a go at Jesus about a sinner. Jesus said: Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? That is pretty well where you are at Frank as you troll one side of politics and refuse to condemn both sides.
    margie
    16th Apr 2016
    3:49pm
    How about the Prime Minister and all politicians living within OUR means, I'd like to see that
    MICK
    16th Apr 2016
    4:13pm
    How about introducing legislation to jail politicians who do shady deals with big business in exchange for election funding and intentionally sell out the nation? I won't hold my breath margie.
    Adrianus
    16th Apr 2016
    4:31pm
    Margie don't let mick fool you into thinking that he hates big business. Secretly he is a part owner in a few of the biggest.
    Anonymous
    16th Apr 2016
    6:03pm
    labor mick, why stop with jailing politicians, oops, how many union bosses are already serving jail time for misappropriating members fees, including the ex secretary of the labor party and union president, federal labor member thomson, fined, etc. yet when anybody mentions to lower the company's tax all hell breaks loose, the big outcry," those rich people" yet most small companies are losing the battle to keep their head over the water, every company which closes their doors means more people out of work and the unemployed number grows, ask yourself why should companies pay more taxes than the normal taxpayer, after all they employ about 60% of the workforce yet are getting screwed to the point of no return, Australia wake up, what do you want, being a third world country or become responsible and look at the difficulties our country is facing, it is up to you.
    roy
    16th Apr 2016
    6:17pm
    It's about time the flag was changed to a hammer a sickle here, anybody agree.
    roy
    16th Apr 2016
    8:00pm
    Stan Laurel look alike for PM, yeah.
    MICK
    16th Apr 2016
    8:58pm
    Using my name again Frank? Run your grubby elitist BS as much as you like. Not working.
    roy
    17th Apr 2016
    8:53am
    We want Bill, we want Bill, we want Bill, we want Bill. Bill walks on water yeah.
    Bill for PM.
    No more grubby LNP's milking us, just the unions.
    MICK
    17th Apr 2016
    4:25pm
    You posting under my name again Frank?
    I suggest we jail politicians who accept large sums of money from the big end of town so that they (big business) can write legislation and elected (coalition) governments can implement it. Now there is corruption on a large scale.

    17th Apr 2016
    5:18pm
    Here's an idea. How about we cut taxes ONLY for companies that spend the 100% of their tax cut on increased wages for non-executive, unrelated employees? I'll bet the Business Council would scream blue murder at that suggestion!
    MICK
    17th Apr 2016
    7:47pm
    Interesting idea.
    My bigger concern is that we are seeing Turnbull on the soap box. Tony Abbott electioneering mk II. ANybody watching the campaign would spot that the mainstream media is again pushing their man (the coalition!) and editing the speeches to give a positive spin to the propaganda coming from the government.
    We are seeing Turnbull delivering the same BS to move the debate away from offshore tax havens and fixing the banks. I do not understand how the media can even claim to be unbiased when it has come down on the side of the rich (again) by ending the tax haven story. And all that Turnbull can say about a Royal Commission to examine and fix the banks is that he told them about being above board.....with NO LEGISLATION to stop them. So what do people think is going to happen?
    Adrianus
    18th Apr 2016
    8:42am
    Rainey now there's an idea. A 110% deduction on arms length wages instead of a tax reduction. The governments have done it for movies, olive groves, wine etc. in the past. We have wasted so much money on employment agencies. They have become mega wealthy and we still have unemployed.
    MICK
    18th Apr 2016
    9:43am
    So let's ignore the real game: tax havens. It is estimated that 8% of all the world's wealth is sitting in tax havens. Here in AUstralia we have many at the top using them. Turnbull has one. Why....other than to avoid taxes?
    The "unemployed" are pawns in a game and the big end of town and their wealthy interests care not one hoot as they want poverty so that they have an abundance of 'slaves'.
    Adrianus
    18th Apr 2016
    10:02am
    Turnbull has one what mick?
    MICK
    18th Apr 2016
    1:00pm
    A ACCOUNT IN A TAX HAVEN............in the Cayman Islands.
    Funny how the media and the Opposition have gone cold on that one. It tells a story about corruption at the top end of society, political 'guns' for sale to big business and fraud on a grand scale. In the meantime you hear the scapegoat 'unions' slogans when the real game is the rich and their crooked behaviour.
    Adrianus
    18th Apr 2016
    3:01pm
    So does Shorten. What does that prove? The question is are they paying the appropriate level of tax?
    MICK
    18th Apr 2016
    4:36pm
    Shorten does not have money parked in a tax haven earning a heap of royalties. Turnbull has money in the Cayman Islands.
    Your question belies the truth. Well you are devoid of that quality anyway Frank. The question is not if they meet the letter of the law. The question is WHAT IS THE TOTAL RETURN ON ALL OF THEIR ASSETS? Whilst I do not know I'd think that Shorten had nothing to worry about in that regard. Turnbull? I'd be thinking that there were fingers in the pie. And while we are at it Turnbull hid his behaviour with legislation. He would not have done that if he had nothing to hide would he?
    Adrianus
    18th Apr 2016
    5:08pm
    Turnbull, when accused of having funds in the Caymans told Shorten that he also had money invested in the Caymans to which Shorten had no response ie no denial. I'm sure that if Turnbull had suspect dealings the ATO would be all over it as they are with other individuals and entities.
    MICK
    18th Apr 2016
    11:13pm
    Never heard that one. So why did the respective parties do nothing and the media let it go. I smell a rat. If two then let justice and the real law prevail.
    FM
    17th Apr 2016
    10:49pm
    Yes Mick the mainstream media are extremely disappointing. There are papers and Radio and TV channels that we know are affiliated with political parties but those that claim to be independent are just as partisan. They take agendas from think tanks such as the Grattan Institute or Australian Institute of Public Affairs and run them as news. Reporters such as those employed by the SMH write up something someone like John Daley has provided that pushes an agenda mostly favourable to business and make a few comments on it, as if what he has to say is somehow important. It may be cash for comment for cash strapped media organizations. At least it means the reporter who runs it does not have to seek out a story for the day.
    Adrianus
    18th Apr 2016
    7:58am
    Yes FM, I know what you mean. I was a little disappointed when I learned about Conroy's holiday at the Beaver Creek Ski Resort in Colorado. Ever been there mick?
    Now I could be putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5 but, in February 2010 when Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and the Minister for Communications Stephen Conroy announced a temporary reduction in licence fees paid by networks by 33 per cent and 50 per cent in 2011, it made me suspicious. Well it was just before the election.

    Senator Conroy never did say how his department came up with the formula that generated over $600m for the networks at the expense of taxpayers? I guess the cleaning lady wiped the white board?
    I wonder what all that was about? Some people I talk to say it was about rebalancing competition after the $billions poured into the ABC? I recall Gina Reinhart was on the board of 10 at the time and she wasn't complaining about it. Apparently it was worth more than $600m to those commercial channels.
    That's our tax dollars going to commercial media! Is that why we pay taxes??
    MICK
    18th Apr 2016
    9:48am
    What a DH you are Frank. Comment straight from party HQ. Maybe talk about Bronny and her helicopter rides and the huge amount of waste of taxpayer money on the NBN which Turnbull has created. Never a word. Only ever trolling for the LIberal Party.
    The government has decided to go for unions and make them the panacea for all that is wrong in the country. What about the corruption with their election funding big business mates. Mosseko tax evasion? Turnbull's Cayman Island tax haven...and all the rest. That is where the real story lies no matter what the bastards spruik in front of the cameras with their media controlled outlets.
    Adrianus
    18th Apr 2016
    9:55am
    I can talk about how the unions wasted our money when they were in government but you will not like it mick?
    Why don't you tell us more about Turnbull's Cayman Island tax haven?
    You raised the issue about media's political bias. Any thinking person knows that the media is mostly left wing, possibly to the tune of 65%-75%.
    So you have been to the Beaver Creek Skiing Lodge? What's that you say mick, you are an independent? I hope GetUp aren't paying you big bucks for the crap you put on here? What's that you say? The Unions can afford it?
    Adrianus
    18th Apr 2016
    10:28am
    mick, I just realised that Breckenridge is only 50 miles up the highway from the Beaver Creek Skiing Lodge. I'm not jumping to any conclusions, I'm just saying it's an odd coincidence. What's the skiing like in Colorado?
    roy
    18th Apr 2016
    10:59am
    You LNP moon howlers, sheesh.
    MICK
    18th Apr 2016
    12:52pm
    Posting under my name again Frank? And of course you deny it.
    Your posts are BS designed to deflect attention from the main game: corruption at the top end of town. That is where the real money drain on the nation is. Crooks dressed in suits with their political party doing their bidding. And you talk about unions.......... Ha!
    Throw all the insults you want. I pay my taxes and do not seek out the rorts or the offshore tax shelters. Where's yours?
    Adrianus
    18th Apr 2016
    1:45pm
    I see you don't deny the link there mick.
    The main game? This forum is about why tax cuts are not the answer. But when you talk about tax and the level of tax you need to discuss reasons why they are at such a high level.

    mick the main game is the ABCC and it's reintroduction!!
    The construction industry provides employment to more than 1 million Australians, in around 100,000 businesses.

    Unfortunately bullying, intimidation and industrial lawlessness is rife. Around 2 out of every 3 working days lost to industrial disputes are in the construction industry.

    Since Labor abolished the Australian Building and Construction Commission (ABCC), the number of working days lost to industrial disputes in the construction industry has increased by 34%.

    The Senate is considering legislation to re-introduce the ABCC. Restoring the ABCC will mean more investment, more infrastructure, more construction and more jobs.

    Add your name to support a stronger economy with more jobs.

    Bring back the ABCC!
    roy
    18th Apr 2016
    2:17pm
    LNP moon howlers, sheesh, vote independent.
    MICK
    18th Apr 2016
    4:32pm
    You are running the exact government line Frank. Well, you are a part of the current government aren't you?
    More BS from you to deflect attention from the big end of town wanting everything.
    As for owner operator trucking companies the owners want to pay drivers nix. That is the only game here, other than sabre rattling for an upcoming election. The issue is a beat-up run by the main media for its government. nothing more.
    You keep on about union behaviour but fail to address Tax Shelters where the big money is disappearing, multinational tax evasion where the government is turning a blind eye, reforms to superannuation where all that I can see is talk not action and the corporate sector trying to lock in a 10% tax decrease...which will be funded by higher taxes on mums and dads who will wonder why they cannot put food on to the table or pay their mortgages.
    Your spiel about the suggested impact of unions on business is a crock. Just like you Frank!
    I await YOU to endorse a FEDERAL ICAC to look into corruption of all sorts. You won't have a bar of that will you? I await a GENUINE rout of the banks. You won't have a bar of that either will you. The best your mate Malcolm and Scott can come up with is to leave it to the impotent ASIC......which has failed Australia for decades. You are a joke Grank and so is the party for whom you work.
    Adrianus
    18th Apr 2016
    5:01pm
    mick they are owner operators meaning they drive the rig themselves. The other interesting common feature they share is that they are not members of the Transport Workers Union like the bullied employee truckies who work for the big carriers. The tribunal seeks to lower wages for these drivers and put the owner operators out of business so that their big business mates get more business and charge higher rates. Don't you know anything about the transport industry mick? Labor is big on putting small enterprises out of business. Vic Labor just put the little fishers in Port Philip Bay out of business. Let's get rid of a few of those useless independents. I will get sick in the stomach if we have to pay those guys a sizeable pension for a few years of dicking us around.
    MICK
    18th Apr 2016
    11:10pm
    Owner operators would welcome a fair rate of pay. The effect of bringing back the ABCC is to rout the unions. That is what a big business owned government wants. Nothing to do with the workers. ANd for the record I have not seen owner operators go broke since the ABCC was abolished. So your bit is simply sabre rattling.
    At any rate you have your double dissolution and despite the government smokescreen to get people to ignore the performance of this bad bad government I think that voters will remember being lied to by Tony Abbott and treated like mugs with his 4 word slogans.
    And of course you never mention changes in legislation to shake out Independents so Labor and Liberal can own the game. This may come back to bite you and your employer.
    BS on BS on BS. If you want to "get sick" (ha, ha, ha) about paying pensions then you have CONVENIENTLY not looked at unemployment benefits payable due to closing industry down, or the $8 billion a year we pay to the fossil fuel industry because your coal owned government repealed a perfectly good and functioning Carbon Tax, or the refusal to collect proper taxes from multinational, or tax havens where the rich (including the PM himself) can tax their money and pay nil tax. Yeah Frank. Funny how these many many tens of billions of dollars do not concern you. But the ABCC does.............WHICH IS A POLITICAL STUNT just like the Royal Commission waste of money into the building industry where your government NEVER stops the fraud from builders who refuse to pay their tradies or the game of 'going broke' and reopening a few days later..business as usual.
    You are a Liberal hack mate and as I have indicated before people like you do not deserve citizenship in this country.
    Adrianus
    19th Apr 2016
    8:25am
    mick I can see you have not tried to get a pallet delivered to a remote location. The big carriers take an age, unloading it to several depots and mostly eventually on the final leg of the journey giving the hard part of the delivery to an owner driver. These men and women are the unsung heroes who keep a lifeline open to the Australian outback. Why make life hard for them just because they're not in a union???
    Why does everyone need to be a member of a group???
    Is it simply to provide power to the leaders of that group???
    Unions served a purpose once, but now they are just gatekeepers and speed bumps to industry!!
    MICK
    19th Apr 2016
    9:36am
    If all else fails Frank focus on the small stuff, ignore the main game and change the subject. Your mode of operation. Not working!
    As usual the SAME propaganda the government is currently running. Not worth the time of day. The lies and deceit are not going to win you an election so wasting your time.
    roy
    19th Apr 2016
    9:49am
    Vote independent but most importantly don't vote for the allegedly love child of Stan Laurel, Shorty.
    Take away the citizenship of anybody who votes LNP.
    Adrianus
    19th Apr 2016
    10:23am
    mick, if you're not voting LNP you're voting Labor controlled by the Unions. Simple really.
    MICK
    19th Apr 2016
    10:42am
    Ha, ha, ha. What a joke.
    If you are voting LNP then you are voting for big business to run the country, thieve from the country and push their obligatory taxes onto average citizens.
    You are a government troll Frank and are a scourge to the nation. Move to Syria where you would fit in well.
    Adrianus
    19th Apr 2016
    11:35am
    I think it was the ALP who asked the big business mining industry to formulate an additional tax. I guess that's the closest big business gets to running the country.
    MICK
    19th Apr 2016
    12:48pm
    The coal industry repealing a Carbon Tax which many other countries now want and which was working? The banking system tearing up the legislation Labor left to protect consumers after banking rorts which happen every few years, and now not wanting a RC? The mining industry repealing the Mining Tax?
    Are you a half wit Frank or just cutting and pasting from the Liberal Party campaign book?
    BIG BUSINESS IS RUNNING THE COUNTRY. That is why it is in a mess. Big business in this country is a joke and it almost never can hack it in the international community. So the country goes backward!
    roy
    19th Apr 2016
    8:06pm
    I do apologise Frank for calling you a DH, a halfwit, a troll etc. It's must be something in my mental makeup that stops me having a reasoned discussion, apologies again Frank.
    Vote independent by the way.
    Adrianus
    19th Apr 2016
    8:45pm
    MICK, No offence taken. I realise that you are a special person. It would be a mistake on my part to be mean to you in return. I know you lose control and just cant help it. Apology accepted.
    MICK
    19th Apr 2016
    9:00pm
    I see you are posting under my name again Frank. It must be getting lonely for you on this website when everybody is on to you. So now you post gobbledigook under different name so that you can talk to yourself. Funny if it were not so sad.
    Methinks you are a halfwit because all your posts defy logic and are little more than paid political comment. I feel sorry for you mate. You need to take up residence in Syria...where you might fit in well.
    roy
    20th Apr 2016
    6:10pm
    Vote independent.
    ex PS
    21st Apr 2016
    5:41pm
    Looks like the so called major partys win again. We are so intent on tearing each others political beliefs apart that we are distracted from the main issues.
    The main issue is that we have two political organisations thyat have convinced the voting drones that no one else can govern ecountry. They don't have to make difficult decisions or perform especially well because vthey know that they will always have a 50/50% chance of winning power.
    As long as we keep thinking in this way we will always end up with the government we deserve and deserve to be treated with the contempt we deserve.
    For pitys sake or actually for our sake, stop voting for political partys because it is what you have always done and start looking at the policys and what they mean to you and your family.
    Take a close look at the policies of the so calleds, there is practically no difference, so what's there to argue about?
    MD
    22nd Apr 2016
    10:27am
    As usual, I get the feeling that I may have left my contributory run too late although were this forum an open discussion, meaning person to person interlocutors', then I fear by now they may well have 'come to blows' . A sad state of affairs for an equally sad - affairs of state. The overwhelming contribution(s) of the awesome foursome, or gruesome twosome, doesn't leave much room for anyone to wriggle ! Regardless of which I am convinced that we can expect more of the same thrust and parry and associated gay repartee, no slur on any one persons' proclivities meant.

    Sure, cut the Company tax rate. Everyone gets to prosper, right ? The 'fat cats' (those loathsome creatures that realize unconscionable remunerations) AND the poor 'mum and dad battler/retirees' who have invested their life savings in shares of the very same firms controlled by the aforementioned felines. A veritable win win no less.
    IF, and a gawd almighty big IF, whatever the Government of the day, were it to show some spine and LEAD, as opposed to being LED and themselves invested some degree of ethics in leadership and encouraged a degree of the same value in business/business lobby, it might go some small way to addressing the current and dare I say all too bleedin obvious social inequities.
    How about these leading Corporations; these veritable 'Pillars of Society' and their Paragons' of Virtue - CEO's/Boards/shareholders (they're all in this together), try investing just a fraction of their personal windfall into some Research and Development. Would the result make us a smarter country ? Who most stands to benefit ?
    Collectively we can whinge, moan and groan about past failures; be they political or personal, but until such time as some body, anybody for that matter shows the intestinal fortitude to 'have a go' and be granted a period of incumbency to expedite some ethical behaviour, this both within and without the corridors of power, then we will continue to slide into yet more slur, innuendo and name calling.
    Recall John Lydgates' proverb: "You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time".


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