Are women there yet in terms of equality?

On International Women’s Day, we want to know what most concerns you.

Are women there yet in terms of equality?

It’s International Women’s Day. The words elicit a yawn from many men – and even women debate whether the ‘special’ day should be preserved.

Does it continue to serve a purpose?

If there is equality in terms of opportunity in society and in the workplace, if sexual harassment and domestic violence are ancient history and if the caring duties performed mainly by women are rewarded, then no. So where do we stand?

In 2017 Australia was ranked 35th on a global index measuring gender equality, slipping from a high of 15th in 2006, according to the Australian Human Rights Commission (AHRC). While Australia scored highly in terms of educational qualifications, the index showed progress needed to be made in economic participation and opportunity, and political empowerment.

Fifty-two per cent of Australians living in poverty are female, according to the Poverty in Australia 2018 report prepared by the Australian Council of Social Service (ACOSS) and the University of NSW.

Median super balances for men and women in 2015-16, according to the Australian Superannuation Funds of Australia (ASFA), were:

  • 50-54-year-olds men $99,000, women $45,000
  • 55-59-year-olds men $115,000 women $50,000
  • 60-64-year-olds men $110,000 women $36,000
  • 65-69-year-olds men $32,000 women $9900.

Average balances in 2015-16 for all people aged 15 and over were $111,853 for men and $68,499 for women. Whether you look at median or average balances, women are suffering.

Women comprise roughly 47 per cent of all employees in Australia, but take home, on average, $251.20 less than men each week. The full-time average weekly earnings for women are $1455 – 14.1 per cent less than for men ($1695), according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) 2019 Average Weekly Earnings report.

Women made up 37 per cent of all full-time employees and 68.5 per cent of all part-time employees in January, according to the ABS 2019 Labour Force report.

The Department of Social Security (DSS) tells us that of people aged 65 or more who receive an Age Pension, 55 per cent are women.

Australian women account for 68 per cent of primary carers for older people and people with disability, according to the AHRC.

Ninety-five per cent of primary parental leave (outside of the public sector) is taken by women and women spend almost three times as much time taking care of children each day, compared with men, says the AHRC.

In business, women hold 13.7 per cent of chair positions and 25.8 per cent of directorships, and represent 17.1 per cent of CEOs and 30.5 per cent of key management personnel, according to the Government’s Workplace Gender Equality Agency (WGEA).

Thirty-five per cent of boards and governing bodies have no female directors. By contrast, only 0.9 per cent had no male directors.

I rest my case. Let’s continue with an International Women’s Day to sharpen the focus on reform.

But what do you think? Have your say in our Friday Flash Poll or post a comment below.

Friday Flash Poll: Why do we need an International Women’s Day?

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What are your other concerns as an older Australian woman? If you are working full or part-time, are you secure in your job? Have you experienced discrimination?

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    COMMENTS

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    Ted Wards
    8th Mar 2019
    10:20am
    I find the selection "narrow the superannuation gap" quite offensive. There should be no superannuation gap or any other gap. Gender should never be even mentioned when it comes to things like super, wages, positions. So if you writers, I'm assuming your younger than myself, are still thinking that way, then the answer to your question is yes, inequality is alive and well, and will be for generations to come! You end it, full stop.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    10:40am
    True, Ted - there is no 'superannuation gap' - there are differences between what people manage to salt away during a lifetime of work and what they don't. There is also no 'pay gap' since it is mandated that any job with the same conditions receives the exact same minimum payment.

    I find it absurd that people complain about contracted or negotiated salaries - such as TV and movie gigs - I've appeared in a movie or two, but they never paid me the same as they pay Tom Cruise or Nicole Kidman.

    Reduced to tin tacks, most of the 'sweeping issues for feminism' become little whines about nothing real.

    What is truly inequitable is the idea floated by Labor that, if elected, they will pay women's super while they take time off.... that means if someone takes twelve months off, they are paid precisely the superannuation rate extra for every hour actually worked. Utter nonsense and flies directly in the face of Labor principles - yet this is the kind of 'thinking' that has overwhelmed Labor these days sine its branches were stacked with feminists and their running dogs....

    Not only that, but by extension, someone must pay super for every person who takes time off for any reason, and then extending further, super at an averaged rate must be paid to those thrown out of work or even retired - to maintain 'equity', mind.

    You get what you work for - and if such an additional burden is placed on employers, many will simply not employ women, so it's an utterly stupid policy.

    On another note, this is the kind of WELFARE that goes around these days which is becoming such a burden on society and on the government Budget, to the detriment of vulnerable social groups, especially retirees. funny how terribly much of that WELFARE is handed out to put and keep women in work when unemployment is a national disaster, hidden beneath layers of BS, but a disaster still.

    Why the discrimination?
    Paddington
    8th Mar 2019
    11:19am
    Women have the babies and often do the caring roles of old or sick relatives. That is inequality in itself. When men have to have the babies and go through all that entails there will be equality. My mother said that many years ago.
    Of course women should be compensated for being the nurturers and if men stay home to take over that role they should be compensated as well.
    Many women lose up to 20 years of pay and super to care for family including their children and their parents so some time should be compensated.
    Carers of either gender need to be looked after because they are working just not paid either at all or partially.
    Not all work that is vital attracts a salary!
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    11:44am
    How is it inequality to perform your natural functions? And to nowadays actively make the choice to do so? You don't want kids - go take the cut... and meantime while women in relationships have their costs and their super covered by the man involved anyway, in lieu of going to work - where is the problem?

    the ONLY problem is the way this society has been structured to rely on the MADIF (for the uninitiated - the Mandatory Dual Income Family)- which means that it is now harder for a FAMILY totake time off for children, and even harder for a single to do so.

    Many men are carers for their aged, and the reality is that women live longer so are slightly more likely to be doing that task.

    Perhaps we need to mandate that men be paid more super so they can enjoy their fewer years in retirement.... and men should be compensated with a higher wage for time their spouse has taken off for family reasons, since they are the ones paying the bills alone... and singles should be paid a higher rate of pay to enable them to keep up with the MADIF in terms of buying a home and such.

    That is where the kind of thinking espoused by the 'feminist' lobby leads.... to either one-sided over-pay for the same work hours or a totally chaotic pay scale to suit all conditions.

    Cannot be done...
    Anonymous
    8th Mar 2019
    11:48am
    Trebor - you appear to be making the case for women being unable to think logically and are ruled by emotion rather than fact . Certainly Paddington is a prime example of your hypothesis
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    12:00pm
    It's not me making that case - that case is inherent in the lack of reasoning involved in positing these 'issues' as they are posited.

    In 'feminist lobby' I include many benighted souls arbitrarily titled 'men' for the sake of discerning their sexual paraphernalia.... but their real position sticks out like the proverbial running dog's genitalia ....

    I once posted elsewhere a reason why I would not vote for an alleged minority or 'victim' group - partly that is because they already are handed accredited victim status by the party involved = 100% support for any initiatives that benefit them - and even some of the 'opposition' party - they don't need my vote.

    This from a man who voted women on principle some years ago and actively promoted women in the workforce to achieve equality - and worked for a woman candidate in 2007 for no pay.

    Reality bites, huh?
    Brissiegirl
    8th Mar 2019
    12:35pm
    I don't believe family nurturing should be compensated! There are some things in life that we do as human beings that should never be measured in monetary value. To my mind there is a definite line between paid "work" outside the home and taking care of our domestic responsibilities. Requiring family duties to be compensated reminds me of the entitlement mentality.
    Arvo
    8th Mar 2019
    12:43pm
    Paddington -Marriage, having babies is a choice ,not paid employment.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    12:46pm
    The problem these days, Brissiegirl, is that once upon a time in a distant galaxy far far away (that's what it's called, don-kay - FARFARAWAY!) - is the NEED for a family unit to rely on two incomes to survive and prosper... nowadays, of course, if one falls off the branch for any reason, the other's single income in MOST cases cannot cover the costs of mortgages and so forth...

    Introduction of the MADIF lead to an instant doubling and then tripling of house prices (etc) in Sydney - under the false assumptions that two incomes were now the norm (despite the reality that only 60% of work age women actually worked BTW), that all jobs returned a roughly equal amount of income per worker, and that those in work would remain in work regardless of all other circumstances.

    This lead, firstly, to a savage imbalance in purchasing power between a family unit and singles... it became a struggle for a single to get into the housing market... secondly, more and more jobs became part-time casual for a number of reasons but principally for the reason that our society was unable to absorb that sudden influx of extra workers (and yet immigration continues on at a mad pace??) while retaining the ability of singles and then lower paid families to even keep pace.

    All this lead to REAL inflation and massive rises in costs of living and massive rises in costs of labour - and has created a never-ending cycle of hidden but very real inflation - meaning simply that the buying power of the dollar and thus of a given job was reduced at a far higher rate than officially acknowledged.

    Forcing women into the workforce did no real favours for anyone - least of all families.. too long a story to put down here in a single byte.... and then giving them extra handouts etc for being there... spelt doom for the economy in reality and much suffering for the many.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    12:48pm
    (dang - lost my thought there) after FARFARAWAY) insert a family could live and prosper on one income.... then the need etc...
    Brissiegirl
    8th Mar 2019
    1:18pm
    Trebor, women say they are forced into the workforce for financial reasons, also for status and personal satisfaction. I remember when the female slogan was, "We can do anything" (education, equal work etc.). Now they are obliged to work outside the home, they've painted themselves into a corner from where there is no retreat, and they do not seem to have reaped the huge benefits and happiness from their equal work demands. Women, due to our biological makeup, cannot do everything so we often find different ways of achieving life-time satisfaction.

    I'm just so fed up with greedy, complaining women. The immense benefit they have been legally delivered in recent times of living in a domestic relationship with a man for about 2 years, then claiming half of everything he has earned and achieved, sometimes even half his superannuation, is rarely acknowledged as the unjust financial benefit that it is. It's a rort and something difficult for trusting men to avoid. All of the younger men I speak to are petrified of getting into a relationship that soon strips them of their hard-earned.

    So that's just some of why I detest International Women's Day. There shouldn't be any of these "Days" - we should all do our very best under all circumstances and stop harping and craving for more, more more. Stop expecting governments to give hand-outs and insist on gender quotas. It's all so utterly craven imo.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    3:36pm
    Very clear-thinking, Brissie...
    jackie
    9th Mar 2019
    11:00am
    Paddington...Women need to stop having children if they can’t afford to have them. In divorce superannuation is divided these days. ... All the women I have come across that never had children are financially better off than those that had children....They look years younger too.

    They never had to hop, skip and jump for a man too. Men have higher incomes than women but waste their money on sports, gambling, drinking, womanising and indulging on man toys.

    Every gambling venue is full of men. Every sports stadium too. Our cities have brothels every where for men. Most motor bikes, campers, boats and planes are owned by men.

    Most men are resentful and mean about having to divide their assets ddivorce proceedings.
    GeorgeM
    9th Mar 2019
    1:00pm
    Ted, most of the article reeks of rabid feminism quoting selective statistics to tell lies ending with "I rest my case" - rest my a...e!
    Some very good comments from Trebor & Brissiegirl - can't add much more, except one as follows.
    I heard on Channel Ten from that Sandra - that average presenter favoured many times -supposed to read the news instead saying women need to speak up. She seems to be deaf as women are always speaking up these days. In fact, the men need to start speaking up against domestic abuse - belittling, mental & verbal abuse, bullying with threats to take children away, constant attacks on husbands / in-laws, etc - I believe these are common and cause many domestic break-ups - thereafter leading to women then whinging that they didn't have the same level of finances!

    The media and Govt need to strongly focus instead on keeping marriages together (Govt to promote Counselling) and thereby ensure finances of the couple remain strong (with less Govt support for break-ups), with a strong foundation for children with their parents being good role models. The Greenie & Labor types have gone too far in breaking up families.
    Such articles only cause more harm than good by encouraging more whinging rather than focusing on the root problems - YLC needs to look at itself.

    BTW - there is also NO discrimination in the workplace - never saw it (in fact there is lots of Racial and Age discrimination), and lots of women are in senior & important positions - in fact too many especially in Govt departments due to Discrimination in their favour.
    TREBOR
    9th Mar 2019
    3:06pm
    Yes, George - the family that stays together, prospers together and generates generally successful and stable children. The two halves of broken dreams can never add up to two wholes again.

    There are many theories around as to why governments CHOSE to go down the path of family destruction - one is that family unit is anathema to The Great Socialist Communist Revolution 'needed' to make the world viable for all equally (sure... sure) - another is that easy divorce laws came in to allow a government minister to divorce easily and go live with his paramour... another is that perpetually dividing people and their prosperity as a unit up, means more money flows into the coffers of selected groups (lawyers, banks and real estate people), that the population is kept perpetually on edge through imposed near poverty, that a workforce forced to exist is a tame one and thus it is necessary to ensure they have no genuine choices, and that the organised family group can pose no real threat to a government bent on despotism.

    When you add to all those the real outcomes from family disintegration, you can clearly see in place a deliberate policy to reduce the power of men in society by removing their prosperity and choices, and thus create an easy run for despots and users/parasites... then there are the countless Lost Children of the Stolen Generations, who, on observation, are becoming more and more Borderline in their perceptions of the world and more under the rule of persons with a sinister lack of reasoning but armed with an agenda and a 'cause' .... then there is the very real harm done to most women due to being forced into an environment where they must stand alone and prosper alone if they can - with increasingly limited opportunities for the majority but a dream run for some, the Chosen Ones priestesses and acolytes of Delphic Oracle Feminism - who by contrast , prosper mightily in many areas of life without actually lifting a finger for society and nation.

    There are plenty more, no doubt - I'm not here to write a book..... but I suppose I could - but I've already got 4-5 on the go, plus short stories. and some that need re-writing....
    GeorgeM
    9th Mar 2019
    3:52pm
    Good theories of why Govts went down that path, Trebor, methinks it is the usual "Divide and Rule" approach of politicians which got the Feminists sucked in - worse, it got a lot of otherwise perfectly normal women sucked in and has adversely affected their lives. Now that they reap the results, they whinge. Not all, only the sucked-in / privileged ones who don't understand how the politics has got them trapped.
    Misty
    9th Mar 2019
    10:18pm
    TREBOR what has happened since 2007 to make you so anti women?, it sticks out a mile in your posts.
    Hoohoo
    10th Mar 2019
    5:37pm
    There are some very sexist sweeping statements above, that all presume the people that cleans the toilets & do most of the caring of children & elderly parents, is always a "greedy complaining woman" according to Brissieboy, who goes on to say "The immense benefit they have been legally delivered in recent times of living in a domestic relationship with a man for about 2 years, then claiming half of everything he has earned and achieved, sometimes even half his superannuation, is rarely acknowledged as the unjust financial benefit that it is. It's a rort and something difficult for trusting men to avoid. All of the younger men I speak to are petrified of getting into a relationship that soon strips them of their hard-earned."
    I know of a man who did exactly what you describe, shacked up for 2 years then left, demanding a cut of her life's work, & he didn't even run the house! He made her sell her house in Sydney & she's never been able to get back into the housing market.

    Stop being so damned sexist!

    And TREBOR, your question "How is it inequality to perform your natural functions?" deserves absolute contempt. Do you think it's a natural function for men to be caring? To clean the toilet? Run the household budget? Earn money outside of home? I'm busting to know.

    Please define exactly what is YOUR NATURAL FUNCTIONS. Other than to give birth & breastfeed, I can't see any task that's not everyone's natural ability to perform.
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    8:30am
    Please, Misty et al (poor old Al - always blamed for everything) - you must differentiate between despising an ideology that creates endless harm and those it claims to support/promote.

    When you label someone who opposes violence against a chosen group in society as a basher etc - approximately half of its adult population, then advocate removing children from that 'Tribe' so that they do not become ' perverted' by the 'evil' (toxic) ways of that 'Tribe' and learn 'the true way' under tutelage of the other 'Tribe - and so forth - you are engaging in not only a civil war, but are actively pursuing and promoting a Crime Against Humanity as defined by the UN and the International Courts.

    Perhaps we should rename the joint Rwandaustralia.... you may argue the quantity of that argument - it is impossible to argue the quality of it and its content... that is precisely what is happening, and the long term prognosis is dire for all participants.

    George - divide and conquer - too true - someone put it well when they said that current 'governments' were engaged in promoting conflict between women and men, ethnics and Old Aussies, weirdos and straights, religious groups, country v city (not the NRL either), state v state (look at the GST kerfuffle), rich v poor, boss v workers, even suburb v suburb and school v school - and not in a friendly way either. The old 'divide and conquer' piece by piece, bring 'em all down to the lowest level, and then 'rebuild' them in the way they 'should be built... plain as the magnificent Gaelic nose on my face..
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    8:33am
    Hoohoo - you are now claiming that it is 'sexist' and 'discriminatory' for women to have children and accept the responsibilities thereof while 'the old man' foots the bills (if they even have an 'old man' these days)?

    You want 'primary caregiver role', yet now you proclaim from the rooftops that once birth and breastfeeding are done, it's all equal?

    Thank you for your support for men's equality.
    Hoohoo
    11th Mar 2019
    6:51pm
    I can't follow that rabble of tirade in your first four paragraphs, TREBOR. What on earth have you been reading? & what substance are you on that afflicts your logic so perversely? BTW, I'm not Misty.

    It would've been great if you'd answered my questions about YOUR NATURAL FUNCTIONS.

    You're so blinded with fury against women that you can't see that feminism helps both men & women. It frees us all from the expectations society & religion places on us, to perform only certain roles. The only reason that some men rail against feminism is because they're not prepared to share their own gender's privileges. If we want a happy life we have to live together in harmony - not be at war with each other. Why can't we be from the same tribe?

    Be buggered with claiming to be THE primary care-giver - I never signed up for that. Surely everyone in a relationship is a care-giver. Why should there have to be just THE one care-giver in a partnership? Are you less of a man for being a care-giver? Personally, I think you're more of a man, someone strong enough to show your gentle, nurturing qualities. You'll certainly have a more satisfying life if you break the gender stereotype. Statistics show that the more housework a husband does, the more sex he enjoys AND it's better quality sex. In direct proportion.

    I see a lot of older people in relationships who seem very unhappy, continually squabbling & compensating by drinking too much alcohol. It's a continual power struggle. They appear to be at war with each other.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    10:30am
    Just wondering when International Men's Day was.... all in the interests of equity, you know..... every day used to be Women's Day, when they could stay home out of the hurley-burley and tend the fires....
    Brissiegirl
    8th Mar 2019
    12:39pm
    International Men's Day is 19th November. No wonder so many men don't know about it because unlike the whining female gender with our wants, demands and complaints, men are too busy climbing ladders, pouring concrete, painting roofs, mowing lawns, fixing cars, building houses, driving heavy motorised equipment, laying bitumen roads, moving heavy furniture and equipment and a myriad of other jobs that women don't want and choose not to do.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    12:49pm
    By George, Pickering - I do believe she's got it!!
    Arvo
    8th Mar 2019
    12:50pm
    The aim of International Men's Day is to celebrate positive male role models and to raise awareness of men's issues. These include topics such as mental health, toxic masculinity and the prevalence of male suicide.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    1:10pm
    How is considering masculinity toxic in any way positive or in any way considering men's issues? It's a myth trotted out by often clinically insane women who are now taking over our houses of higher learning with their lies and other bulldust.

    Better to discuss their own toxic femininity... if it could be called femininity.....

    (that'll bring 'em down on us, Igor - get out the Kevlar jackets)...
    Brissiegirl
    8th Mar 2019
    1:24pm
    Arvo: Please! "Toxic masculinity". For God's sake, what about "toxic femininity"? I know the t.v. show MAFS is produced as sensational entertainment, but really the majority of women on that show are, to my mind, closely alisnged to typical toxic femininity e.g. women's immense ability to psychologically control and even damage men - to get inside their heads to the extent that it's psychological violence. The one good thing that MAFS show has done is expose for all to see the utter crap that men have inflicted on them with most of them knowing something is very wrong but they don't know what it is.

    Where do men go when they are forced out of their homes by toxic femininity - they have to leave their kids, sleep rough and there are no financial hand-outs for necessities as is now proposed by both Labour and Liberal parties.

    Toxic femininity does as much damage as other forms of violence but the big difference is - it can't easily be seen and is rarely complained about!
    jackie
    9th Mar 2019
    10:16am
    TREBOR...It is a man’s world and always has been. It’s International Men’s Day every day for men.

    International Women’s Day highlights the vast inequality and global repression of women for women. Men can never relate because they have always had more opportunities available to them throughout history.

    The survey shows that women have regressed where equal pay is concerned since 1972. I remember that’s when the Whitlam Government introduced it and I had a job where I got the same pay as men. I remember all the men I worked with were outraged and abusive despite me doing the same work as them. It made it loud and clear to me that men do not want equality even those that pretend they do.

    If men were repressed like women have been conditioned by men since the dawn of time they would complain too.
    TREBOR
    9th Mar 2019
    12:11pm
    Really? Take up that shovel and stand a watch .....

    Once again - we live HERE - we have virtually zero impact on the oppression of people in other nations - that 'oppression is often the outcome of a dismal social structure and of over-crowding.

    You can march down the street waving banners all you like - it will not change one iota of the genuine oppression and often dire situation for the majority in this world who live in backward and unenlightened nations.

    Men had the opportunities to struggle to make a living for family and often die early in the process. Do you actually believe that going to work in a filthy, heavy, hot, dangerous steel mill was an 'opportunity'?

    Let me make it easy for you :- lay out a list of all these 'opportunities' that men had that women didn't in the past, and let's add in that most men didn't remotely have the opportunity to stay at home and be protected and fed.

    For your 'regression in equal pay' - look at the comments above and look at the comparison of hours worked by women v men in the latest Census. NOWHERE are women paid less than the minimum required for the same job - if they want more, they get ahead on their merits and work the hours required. This whole business of 'equal pay for unequal work' is a pack of lies.

    As I said - why not just pay everyone the same salary for being a citizen and be done with it.

    You personal recollection of that situation is one - and one only. Where I worked the men applauded this decision as it was simply right.. and lest we forget ... the MEN in Parliament voted it in.

    As for repression, you mistake the actual position of 'class' structures as opposed to relationship structures. Go - tell it to the men who died at Waterloo protecting (according to their nation's requirements at the time) nation, home and family.... and women. Women have always been a protected species and remain so to this day - and are currently riding on that status to attain supremacy, not equality.
    Hoohoo
    10th Mar 2019
    5:41pm
    Brissieboy, women do all those jobs you described. You're living in a boy bubble - either that or you're a bloody idiot.
    Hoohoo
    10th Mar 2019
    5:54pm
    TREBOR that's a very spurious argument. Well us white folk missed out on the "opportunity" to be slaves. It's not fair! We really wanted that opportunity!

    Poor people, (both men & women), have done the shittiest jobs throughout history. They still do. According to Malala Yusefsai, the education of girls is the one single factor that will improve poverty throughout the world.

    Men suffer from toxic masculinity as much as their friends, partners & children do. Many men would like to be able to show gentleness & nurturing, but there is a stupid rule in our culture that dictates that real men are meant to be tough & unfeeling. These messages to men are as harmful & stupid as the messages that tell girls they are weak & they should go play with a doll wearing pink.
    Hoohoo
    10th Mar 2019
    6:00pm
    War is hell for ALL CITIZENS, TREBOR. What a stupid comment!
    It's especially hell for those in the war zone, not just the soldiers.
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    8:42am
    Hoohoo - keep up in class. Until the advent of strong Unionism, fought for and bought with the blood of countless men, BTW - most people were slaves in one way or another. No amount of altering history will change the reality that until Federation times, when strong Unionism became the norm more and more and there was universal suffrage, most people had to get by with what they could find by way of work and sustenance, and were forced to accept any conditions handed to them by their often part-time casual employer - or - as I've laid out previously, accept the often dire conditions of a savagely one-sided 'master-servant relationship - by essentially being indentured servants on properties to people of property.

    In that later case, they often received a roof of sorts over their (and their family's) head, some subsistence rations, the opportunity to maybe grow a garden, and occasionally a few bob for their work. Great play is made about the Aboriginal stockpersons and the way they were 'paid' etc - but most are not aware that virtually all were in that position until around federation times, or were itinerant workers humping their swag while the family stayed 'home' and did as best they could.

    Even in the industrial times, most people were little more than slaves, paid at the behest of the boss and treated abysmally... read Billy Connelly's early auto-bio for the conditions in the late forties and early fifties (yes that short a time ago) in the ship-building yards of the Clyde. You do not leave your workplace for any reason, do not take a toilet break until a set time, do exactly as you are told at every turn or else.... and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Virtual slave labour and utterly lacking in respect.

    Anyway - get reading and you'll come across reality.

    Men suffer far more from toxic femininity than they do from being masculine. Easy.

    As for all citizens in war - no problem - but the rality remains that men suffer the most by a country mile. Go tell it to the 25,000 of Wellington's army who died at Waterloo - not a single woman.
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    8:43am
    Oh - and please refrain from using terms like 'stupid' - that is not acceptable. Argue your point, not the person.
    Hoohoo
    11th Mar 2019
    7:20pm
    I did not call you stupid, TREBOR. Stupid is stupid, whether it's a stupid idea or a stupid comment, I'm calling it.

    As for men suffering more in wars than women, omg, it's hell for everyone, especially the innocent citizens caught in a war zone. I don't know which is worse: for ISIS to decapitate you or to be raped continuously, used as a sex slave & then have to give birth to a child of the brute that raped you. It's all hell.
    At least the soldiers have signed up to be soldiers & go to war, unless they've been conscripted by their government. What is the job of a soldier? To kill or be killed - that's why you are paid. Are you saying women are generally more intelligent or sensible than men, because they don't enlist for combat as often as men do?

    And how far back in history are you going to go? Back to caves? We have become a civilised country now, I hope. There are no excuses for brutal or violent behavior in our society.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    10:41am
    **rolls eyes** 'equality in the workplace?

    Please explain?? You mean down at YLC HQ you girls aren't treated equally? Where do you get your information?
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    10:50am
    Equal opportunity in the workplace... so now you demand that men replace 20%+ of teachers, public servants, and around 40% nurses to maintain 'equal opportunity' - and that means automatically that many men slotted into those jobs must immediately be placed in higher positions regardless of qualifications and ability......

    Good-O ... somehow that all sounds familiar somehow.... for an ex public servant...

    While we're at it, banking needs a few good men, and real estate and quite a number of other areas... some of those girls will just have to go to make way for equal numbers...

    We really must mandate that there be 50% representation in all jobs, so there needs to be a lot of reorganisation done fast to suit this mindless agenda... and that means many women are going to have to learn a hell of a lot quickly - like shovel leaning and pick handling...

    as for the mythical 'superannuation gap' - I've said before and I'll say again - give it another 15-20 years and after all the girls have been slotted into the nice easy jobs with the fine super, sitting behind desks all day, in fine and often preferential super jobs, their super will out-strip men's.

    Will there be an outcry then about the real 'superannuation gap'>

    Not as long as their bums point downwards.

    Now come on - give me some hate for telling the truth here....
    Anonymous
    8th Mar 2019
    11:04am
    99.9% of the time , your posts are boring and lacking any logic .
    However this time I agree with what you say

    If only you can keep up the high standard you have set today. Sadly I don't think so

    Sigh !
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    11:24am
    You middle sentence is the only one of value - keep working.... one day you might make it.

    Hope the other Lothario comes along soon to set your mind right... I'm only doing what is good for you....
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    12:07pm
    When I ask for hate I mean REAL hate - not just a bit of petty and insubstantial nit-picking and empty generalised comments...

    Get your mind right, Luke... get a grip on yourself man, you're making a spectacle of yourself - people are watching!
    jackie
    9th Mar 2019
    10:30am
    TREBOR...Things are coming out that even in the armed forces women have been raped by members of their squadrons.

    I wonder how many men have been raped or sexually harassed by men in the work force? Every women would have experienced sexual harassment at work during some time in her life.

    Men generally get raped in prisons because of power issues not at work or while commuting in public spaces.
    TREBOR
    9th Mar 2019
    12:17pm
    Dear God, jackie - what is 'unequal' about a very tiny incidence crime - if it is indeed such and not Swedish Rape. Currently there is a serious investigation going on in the British Army over abuse of MALE recruits....

    Every woman has NOT experienced 'sexual harassment' at work.. sexual harassment is being placed in a compromising position by someone in power - not just the clerk at the next desk asking someone out, or a breakup in an office romance where the man asks 'why'? What you are pointing out with those is the relative lack of power of men in such situations... not women.

    Methinks you are over-emoting these issues.
    Hoohoo
    10th Mar 2019
    6:12pm
    Methinks you're trying to evade the issues, TREBOR.

    This is the only thing I've agreed with you : "As I said - why not just pay everyone the same salary for being a citizen and be done with it." At least that would go some way towards compensating carers for all their unpaid work.

    By the way, I answered the survey to say women shouldn't get more OAP than men. The problems that women face because of career interruption (& therefore much less superannuation), should be addressed much earlier up the track. Besides, it would be clearly discrimination to presume that all women have had their careers interrupted.

    Maybe the only way to avoid unfairness is to have a price set for all work. Women would probably end up being richer but that's only because they do more work.
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    8:50am
    Countless people suffer 'career interruption' these days for many reason - not least that the 'feminist revolution' created by governments run by men flooded the market with a huge excess of potential workers. Again there are countless theories on why this was done - and none of them has to do with 'equality'.

    As I said - in that case everyone with an 'interrupted career' should be compensated for that interruption. Anyone laid off or sick or injured should be paid.. the unemployed and the pensioned should all receive their full income .... now tell us how to work that out... what makes you think that women are special in the workforce because they choose to have children?

    Paid work is not the same as unpaid work - and since women only did an average of 32.5 hours work per week while men did 41 point (something) in the last census - it is obvious that men will earn more. Besides in the good old days of women at home with a safe house and a stable family (in the main) women were paid their share of the family income.... while men did the sweating, slaving and sometimes dying.

    For every woman at home who washes the clothes there is a man who mows the lawns and fixes the car and builds the chook shed.
    Hoohoo
    12th Mar 2019
    5:03pm
    TREBOR, perhaps you're from the generation that dictates strict gender roles, but this is no longer the case. So you can't base all your arguments on that presumption, because nowadays it is wrong. You seem hellbent on keeping people trapped in these stereotypes. Why?

    I was impressed with your mighty dismissal about unpaid work being "not the same" as paid work & therefore the inference is that unpaid work isn't work at all.
    The only difference is that paid work is recognised & rewarded with money, & unpaid work often goes unrecognised, unrewarded & no money. As a matter of fact, unpaid work costs the worker money (to perform the work you need to buy raw materials).
    Both men & women from olden times sweated, slaved & died performing their roles. The poorer they were, the more they suffered. Please stop imagining that females were the only protected species - your idea of protection is my idea of incarceration.

    Let's stop this war, mate? I'm genuinely concerned how this issue is eating you up. Most of your posts are sensible & show you are sincerely concerned about issues of social justice, like unionism. I agree with you on every other topic but this. I'm genuinely sorry about your marriage breakdown. Maybe she was a really awful person, but don't go painting every female with the same brush. I'm ashamed of how badly some women behave, just as you are probably ashamed of some men's very poor behaviour. Only a tiny minority of feminists believe all men are rapists - they are extremists & they were often abused by men as children. They don't represent the majority of feminists (which include good men btw).
    Sundays
    8th Mar 2019
    10:42am
    Older and Wiser aka Only Genuine Rainey has accused me today of online stalking (regarding a post on 6 March). This is a lie. My posts have been public on this website. I have not contacted her privately, I do not use Facebook, Twitter, Instagram or anything else. I do not know her email or her address and phone number. I have however read other sites, sent to me by email where she has posted the same comments as here, easy to spot using her real information. Healthy debate with minimal censorship is fine, but I will not be accused via this site of online stalking
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    10:52am
    Wow - this kind of paranoia has to stop - Lothario, given that there is a Lothario II, has mooted the idea that I am responsible for that account - well - let YLC decide that... I know the answer.

    Sad that discussion has to be driven down to the level of personal accusations.

    Rainey- what's wrong? What gives? Speak up - we wear the same uniform here.. Retiree Blues....
    Anonymous
    8th Mar 2019
    11:00am
    Errr - aren't you doing just that right now ???

    Duh !
    Anonymous
    8th Mar 2019
    11:02am
    And yes Trebore , some low life is posting as me . Pathetic
    Paddington
    8th Mar 2019
    11:24am
    Neither you should, Sundays!
    OGR or alternative tends to turn the table on anyone who challenges her/him.
    Just stand your ground and know others on here can see the comments.
    Yes, she is obvious elsewhere. I have recognised her too.
    Anonymous
    8th Mar 2019
    4:18pm
    Hi Sundays. I've had issues with Only Genuine Rainey too. He/she/it is certifiable, hence best ignored.
    Sundays
    8th Mar 2019
    4:23pm
    Yes, I think you’re right. I will ignore.
    Hoohoo
    10th Mar 2019
    6:16pm
    Good on you, Sundays, for calling this out.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    10:55am
    ALSO - woenin settled relationships share the overall super of the couple - no problem... ANDE they usually live longer so get to inherit the super, the insurance, the home and so forth.

    Do you know how many old lasses get to clubs and slot machine it @ $2.50 - $5.00 a shot? I look on in amazement and wonder where they got the cash - easy - they inherited the house, sold and down-sized to the coast and are living it up on the balance... cruises and pokies...
    Pentop
    8th Mar 2019
    5:36pm
    Well... you really dont like women!!! The ones that I know inherited the kids, did not get maintenance that "someone" "somehow" fathered... (maybe he should have got the snip), worked in low paid jobs because they could not work long hours because they had the kids (while dad enjoyed more fathering!!!) and as a result do not have much super and are now homeless or alternatively couch surfing!!! As far as the pokies... what the hell are they??? And no, I am not one of either the types ---- the ones that you talk about OR the ones I talk about. I worked from 16, mothered two children whilst looking after a sick husband, managed to get a degree whilst working full time and still managed to get a larger super than what is mentioned in this article.... and no I did not work in a brothel either!!! Perhaps you need to spread your wings and meet more people.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    6:04pm
    Wrong - as the man said - I adore your gender but abhor the way it is being demeaned - or words to that effect. What I resent is the artificial advancement and endless promotion of women and their 'issues', ho matter how innocuous, to the extreme disadvantage of men.

    It is the politics of division and the endless free rides to 'compensate' for some mythical past oppression that I do not like and do not accept.

    Your personal hatred of men shows here:-

    "inherited the kids, did not get maintenance that "someone" "somehow" fathered... (maybe he should have got the snip),"

    You seem to forget that the act was a mutual one - two sides to it - and women must accept 50% responsibility... unless they prefer to be viewed as and treated like children?

    Not my/our fault that you lived amongst the Loser Class.... though you seem to have risen above that...

    Perhaps it is you who needs to spread her wings and get out more...
    jackie
    9th Mar 2019
    11:57am
    Pentop...Too many women have been exploited and abused by their male partners throughout their lives.

    That is why International Women's Day is around. It exists to share and teach future generations of women there is help for them.

    Men have always been there for one another that is why they have always had it.
    TREBOR
    9th Mar 2019
    12:22pm
    Sometimes that too many women have been cosseted and protected for too long and too readily by too many men - they assume they have these absolute rights and entitlements as a result.

    International Women's Day was created by the Communist International in a deliberate attempt to undermine Western 'capitalist' societies by fomenting unrest, and by offering the illusion that under Communism women were treated equally. Nothing could be further from the truth - look at modern day and recent day 'Communist' Russia and the situation of women there... young women often enter sex slavery, will rush at a 'rich' westerner, and the grand-mothers sweep the snow from the streets as their contribution to the State and their pension.

    Meanwhile our women are shoe-horned into the top professions and earners.... and the 'feminists' run riot in their endless and mindless destruction of rights civil and legal.

    None so blind..
    TREBOR
    9th Mar 2019
    12:25pm
    "Men have always been there for one another that is why they have always had it. "

    Women haven't? The Sisterhood, The Coven - whatever you want to call it - rules the roost these days.

    Men compete with one another....even on the same football team they compete with their team mates... women gather as a coven and plot hemlock for the men who sustain their life and lifestyle... then wake up one day unfulfilled and wondering where it all went....
    Hoohoo
    10th Mar 2019
    6:33pm
    TREBOR you need to learn to share. You sound like you (with your male friends) are entitled to every desirable job & that women are being "artificially" taking some of these jobs from you.

    Yes, women will compete for good jobs - just suck it up prince. And watch out, they might be even better than most of the men (who are so busy competing with each other they can't co-operate together for better efficiency). You are correct in your assertion that women tend to co-operate, but don't presume it's just with other women - it's with ALL their fellow workers. You are wrong to say it is to the extreme disadvantage of men, except that you will have to learn to give up your idea of entitlement.

    It's a well-known fact that inclusive workplaces are more successful & profitable than mono-cultures. Same goes for Company Boards. It might just explain why the Liberal Party is self-destructing. They're more concerned about jostling for the top job (men only need apply), than they are to govern well.
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    8:56am
    Ha, ha - what an inversion of the current 'reality' - it is WOMEN who are demanding all the top jobs NOW.. and threatening to cause suffering if they are not handed them. It is WOMEN who still have affirmative action, still get extra scholarships to make up equality when they are 62% of students, and still get preference in employment and promotion through fear of a company being called out as 'sexist' etc. For years now WOMEN have enjoyed the fruits of a school education system that advantages their way of earning etc, just as another adjunct to their extra scholarships and such... it is WOMEN who currently take advantage of men in relationship break-ups under benighted interpretations of 'law' .. it is WOMEN who can have a man bashed and thrown out of his homne on a whim....

    All of these things have been and were set up on an allegedly short term basis to create 'equality' - but they are now entrenched inequality to favour women.

    Any Shorten-type move to pay women in any way for time off is exactly paying them more per hour worked simply because they are women, and is totally unacceptable.
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    8:59am
    You mean there are no 'women only' job applications?

    When will you be applying for a CEO job, Hoohoo? Or any of these other jobs you reckon are closed to women? World class tennis player? Hollywood actor? TV presenter? (come in spinner - those are all negotiated contract jobs and have no relevance to wage/salary rates) ...

    Wow - you mean women are NOT being force fed into medicine and such at a huge rate under never-ending affirmative action?

    You are talking through your hat.. sorry 'bout that..
    Hoohoo
    12th Mar 2019
    5:28pm
    I don't have to apply for a CEO job because I already run my own company, TREBOR. I started the business from scratch 25 years ago (with a loan from my sister because the Bank wouldn't even look at me).
    I was talking about the Liberal Party top job, where there's an unspoken rule that women cannot be the leader. I'm talking about Julie Bishop, the most popular Liberal according to the polls, after Malcolm Turnbull was de-PM-ed. She was also the biggest fundraiser, but the boy's club just couldn't stomach having a female boss.
    Why shouldn't women expect to get the top jobs, especially when they have the most merit & give the best value to their organisation?
    And I'm interested to know how women are being force fed into medicine, pray tell? They're obviously getting top marks, proving their ability to absorb information, despite how hard it is for smart girls to be popular with their school peers. Many girls play dumb because they're interested in male attention (& the boys are intimidated by smart girls).
    Hoohoo
    12th Mar 2019
    5:44pm
    Pentop took 100% responsibility for her children, TREBOR. Don't dare tell her she should take 50% of the responsibility! The father was therefore acting like the child & so should be treated like a child?

    And quoting "...I adore your gender but abhor the way it is being demeaned..." just shows you're from times past. Forget your adoration & just get to the business of treating people equally. Being put on a pedestal is a tool to keep you in your place - I'd rather be free of that confected type of adoration.

    8th Mar 2019
    10:57am
    Superannuation Gap -YAWN !!!!
    Lets break it down to single vs married vs divorced men and women
    In the married category - both husbands and wife's super should be added and divided 50/50 or 60/40 in favor of women
    In the divorced category - you need to look at what assets got divided in lieu of super as most women prefer to keep the house or get a cash payout in lieu of dividing the super
    As far as singles without kids - there should be no difference at all if you break that down by age/ qualifications and job categories
    Time for a international MGTOW day
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    11:35am
    *sighs*

    "Grattan did economic modelling that found, even after allowing for inflation, most workers today could expect a retirement income of at least 91 per cent of their pre-retirement income."...

    "The three key flaws in the modelling are: assuming everyone can top up their super with extra voluntary contributions resulting in lifetime contributions that could be up to 50 per cent greater than the basic SG (superannuation guarantee); assuming a continuous uninterrupted 37-year working life and contributions, ignoring the reality of many workers especially women; assuming living standards in retirement shouldn't keep pace with the rest of the community,"

    "Across all age groups just 12.2 per cent of employees with super make additional concessional contributions" (KSS - your cue about 'choices')

    NOW TO THE MEAT:-

    "As of 2015-16, a man aged 60-64 could expect to retire with average superannuation savings of $270,710 whereas a woman of the same age could expect only $157,050."

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-06/most-will-retire-enough-savings-grattan-institute/10469154

    The MEAT is natural given that many women have not been in the workforce a full working life - but even the figures shown above show that any 'gap' is closing rapidly, as is to be expected, given the concentration of women into high income and excellent super (state etc) schemes that are better than the average.

    Fer Chris'sake - give it time you fools - it will settle down soon - but compelling inequity to cover some mythical 'gap' will only perpetuate inequity down the track, as occurred with 'equal employment opportunity' (Affirmative Action) in the CPS...

    Get a grip on yourselves and dump this insane socialist revolution that is killing this nation and promoting a war between tribes of women and men.

    Again - will they be 'addressing' the superannuation gap 'that is inevitable from pumping women into the high paying and easy and well-provisioned for super jobs endlessly?

    I'll bet by 2041 - 50 years of working life or so - after fifty years of universal super - women having more super will be an established Entitlement and even further promoted by idiots who are running the show... just like Affirmative Action, it will be so entrenched that it will be impossible to remove or revert to sanity.
    Paddington
    8th Mar 2019
    11:27am
    Some bitter male comments on a day that is to acknowledge and thank women for all they do as child bearers, home makers, wives, lovers, workers, etc.
    Happy International Women’s Day to all women.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    11:38am
    Truth hurts - nothing bitter about truth - truth is impartial.... get used to it.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    11:52am
    Oh - and BTW - it wasn't we men who spread this into 'poor women' stuff instead of a celebration of what women actually do sometimes - check the survey. If you don't roll your eyes at the 'issues' raised - you have no eyes to see...
    Omacarla
    8th Mar 2019
    12:14pm
    Good to see a positive remark here. I think your etc should include carers. So many of us have spent our lives caring for our partners, children, parents , families and even the community and it is just expected. Beside that we often worked full or part time and though we age equally , it is mostly the women who continue to do the caring for their grumpy old men. I was dismissed when I married and it was years before we had equal pay in my profession. It was extremely difficult to get permanency and thus I ended with a rediculously small super, even though I worked (between having children) for well over 30 years.Trebor 's Truth is not the truth many of us lived.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    12:27pm
    Oma Carla - while I agree with the issues you've posted - that Truth IS the truth that the majority have lived.

    Women have not been dismissed on marriage for decades now, and have enjoyed affirmative action and artificial advancement to resolve 'imbalances' since 1982 - that's nearly forty years of affirmative action - how many more do you want?

    Again - children and caring - if you choose those things, that is on you - not everyone else who only expects a fair return for a fair effort.

    Read up on super above - and for god's sake - let the super system run a 'lifetime' of fifty working years before you start dancing up and down like a silly LNP politician whining about the 'cost' of pensions.... between them and Labor whining about 'poor women and their super' this nation will soon be on its knees financially, and overtaken by genuine WELFARE handed to women endlessly to 'make up'.....

    Unaffordable and frankly discriminatory... while you were taking all that time off for any reason (including being dismissed automatically) - yer old man footed the bills - you got half, got that?

    So - I return to my position stated above - if there is to be any 'catch-up' clauses inserted in pay or super scales - it must apply to everyone who has had time off - for sickness, unemployment, study, kids, injury ... you name it... and then you'd need to go back and play catch-up for those (like my good self) who took time off from our $100,000 a year (in 1992) job to look after the kids while their mother went back to making movies... where's MY post-dated PPL and childcare subsidies? I'll take the cheque NOW, thanks.

    Maybe we should just pay everyone the same salary for entire working life for being a citizen and get it over with.....

    **rolls eyes**
    Arvo
    8th Mar 2019
    12:57pm
    Paddington- "Happy International Women’s Day to all women" from all the male bread earners and the ones who pay all the bills.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    1:12pm
    .. often for families they no longer have any equity in....... funny how that works..... all responsibility and no rights taken for men .....
    jackie
    9th Mar 2019
    12:01pm
    Thank you, Paddington. International Women's Day is by women for women.

    I love watching today's much younger male generation sharing in the housework and childcare something that too any previous generations of males never did.

    All thanks International Women's Day TREBOR.
    TREBOR
    9th Mar 2019
    12:26pm
    .... yes, but women have always stood up for one another ....

    " International Women's Day is by women for women. "

    The truth revealed.
    Misty
    9th Mar 2019
    11:01pm
    I agree Jackie, if it was up to the men there would be no Women's Day, TREBOR you certainly do have a bee in your bonnet about women don't you, this has come through your posts on other topics too, loud and clear.
    Paddington
    10th Mar 2019
    4:30pm
    Arvo, are you saying men have always paid all the bills?
    Going back a generation who have all sadly passed that was true in the financial sense but unfair on those women who did so much and much harder with no mod cons that women and men enjoy today. Their days were long and most husbands realised their worth thankfully. There was more gender stereotyping of jobs but this had a lot to do with large families and lack of childminding resources.
    Today’s woman is in the workplace and often earns more than the male partner.
    If you have daughters like I do then you are not being fair. One, in particular, is highly educated and in a prime position with a great partner who can turn his hand to anything from cooking to washing to child minding, very proud of our son-in-law who supports his wife in every way.
    I feel sorry for the other men on here who do not have what we have and which obviously results in a balanced gender respect and pride in their women on such a day as International Women’s Day. Men’s turn comes later in the year and much to celebrate there as well!
    Hoohoo
    10th Mar 2019
    6:40pm
    So arvo, you've paid ALL the bills, have you? You & other men? Take off your blinkers, Man!
    Hoohoo
    10th Mar 2019
    6:45pm
    TREBOR, why do you resent ".... yes, but women have always stood up for one another"? like caring for underdogs is some sort of unworthy pursuit?

    Or do you think we should all just try to be "real men", point-scoring, competing & fighting with each other?
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    9:02am
    Who said I 'resent'? I'm laying out the facts for you - not my fault you can't arrive at a reliable conclusion...

    Attacking this messenger will do you no good.. address the facts presented and argue those if you wish - and if you can.

    It wasn't me that made the complaint that 'men always stand up for one another' - I merely pointed out that women do exactly the same...

    Can't read?
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    9:04am
    People should be allowed to be what they want to be, within the constraints of civilised society... how does it affect you, for instance, that a man might want to be a top soldier or a top football player? You mean many women don't want to be top anythings?

    Can you define for us what 'being a real man' means to all men?

    Could've fooled me - or is all that push for the top spots in the corporation only words?
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    3:36pm
    Misty, Misty - you do me a terrible injustice - the issue raised HERE was 'are women equal yet etc', plus are they getting a fair shake - not whether or not there is or should be an International Women's Day to celebrate the values and strengths of women - as opposed to a National or International Day of Whining Endlessly.

    'who ever knew Truth put to the worse, in a free and open Encounter?'

    - John Milton, 'Areopagitica'.

    It seems far too many do not wish a free and open encounter but must instead rely on personal slight rather than discussion.
    Hoohoo
    12th Mar 2019
    6:05pm
    So, TREBOR, you'll have to explain this to me; is it a good thing or a bad thing that people stick up for one other?
    Why even mention it if it's a non-issue?

    It's only sensible & obvious if a man's going through a hard time, his friends/mates will show him support. Swap the genders & it's the same. Mix the genders up & it's the same. Friends support friends.

    Supporting each other is quite a different thing to an excluding boys' club mentality. And it's a very different thing when a gang singles out & attacks someone from the other group, specifically because they're from the other group. That's bullying, harassment or worse. It's sexist & it applies to all genders.
    Charlie
    8th Mar 2019
    11:37am
    "Equality" One word that can mean anything you want it to mean, is hardly the solution to anything. The issue has become over simplified.
    Brissiegirl
    8th Mar 2019
    12:45pm
    There can never be "equality" unless we live under socialist governments. We are all different with different abilities, likes and dislikes. I'm just so over the sistas raving, complaining, grabbing and expecting to be given privileges. We women wanted to work. Now that we are working outside the home women are still complaining and men expect women to go out to work. Suck it up sistas. You don't have to marry and have kids. You can stay all on your little lonesome and give the strong man's shoulder to lean on a complete miss. But when you want a man to lift something heavy for you, don't accuse him of rudeness when he refuses. Remember, equality means equality not selective equality.
    Arvo
    8th Mar 2019
    12:59pm
    Equality is, when a man picks up 3 bricks at a time ans a woman can do the same.
    Sophie
    8th Mar 2019
    9:44pm
    No..equality is when a man can bear children!
    Anonymous
    8th Mar 2019
    11:19pm
    How childish and idiotic Sophie
    Childbirth is not a job
    TREBOR
    9th Mar 2019
    12:12am
    Please refrain from using derogatory terms in your response... surely you... even you, Lothario.. can make a point without offering insults...

    Just disagree nicely, sonny, and leave it at that.
    musicveg
    9th Mar 2019
    8:56pm
    Actually Sophie a man gave birth to a baby not long ago, he was transgender and had not finished his transition to male yet, but he looked male, google it.
    Sophie
    10th Mar 2019
    11:08am
    .
    You can hardly describe him as a "man"...he still had a vagina and reproductive organs.

    .
    Paddington
    10th Mar 2019
    4:49pm
    Arvo, a man may pick up three bricks but a woman may do something different but equal in time value. Not all men are capable of being brick layers anyway! Time is valuable so how much time one spends doing work is important. Some work is physically draining, other work is mentally fatiguing.
    Work in the home is valuable too. Men stay at home as well as women. People combine work at home to paid work away from home. Marriage is about working out these details.
    Brissiegirl, you sound like a bitter male, I wonder why that is?
    Happily married people sort it. She helps him and he helps her. Sorry so many of you have missed out on being happily married with give and take and sharing.
    So much of this discussion has been off topic and bitter!
    Hoohoo
    10th Mar 2019
    6:53pm
    So Brissiething, you say "You can stay all on your little lonesome and give the strong man's shoulder to lean on a complete miss."
    Your little lonesome? How condescending!
    Do all men have strong shoulders? NO they don't - & why should they have to?
    Some of us live very happily in harmony, you know, without having to take on sexist roles at all. We don't have to give up on sex (thanks to contraception). Both partners can be caring & gentle, take out the rubbish, clean the toilets, wipe babies' bums & any other work necessary for a healthy life. Maybe this shows that both men & women can be truly strong, because they arer truly free to be who they want to be.
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    9:07am
    Thank you, Paddington, for pointing out clearly that broad sweep movements such as feminism have no application in the real world.

    Hoohoo - so you wish to judge the entire human race on the basis of its ability to happily " be caring & gentle, take out the rubbish, clean the toilets, wipe babies' bums & any other work necessary for a healthy life."

    What exactly is this "any other work necessary for a healthy life"? From your perspective?

    I agree to a certain extent - as do most men - but the proof of that pudding is in the eating....

    Your clear statement that individuals cannot 'do everything' is well put.
    Hoohoo
    12th Mar 2019
    6:27pm
    I don't wish to judge the entire human race, TREBOR. What gave you that impression? I just suggested that all people can be gentle & caring, whatever, etc., for a happy life.

    "Any other" means all other necessary work.
    By "healthy" I mean clean enough so you don't get sick from toxic microbes. On another level "healthy" refers to mental health.
    There are clear studies that show people get a lot of personal satisfaction from working, especially if they are recognised, rewarded &/or remunerated for their work. It gives them a sense of self worth &, if they're paid, some control over their own destiny.

    Hubby's just made tacos & he's a great cook (& his turn to cook), so I'm off to enjoy. Hope you all have a lovely meal, too & you're all as happy as me.
    radish
    8th Mar 2019
    11:50am
    I'd like to ask a few questions, (and offer a general answer).

    Why don't women start their own industries, eg, Google, Apple, Amazon, BHP; CBA or NAB, or a Rio Tinto. Why wait until men have done all the hard work and then try to muscle in and take the rewards while bringing nothing to the table to trade? If men don't deserve the top jobs why do women? Isn't contribution a relevant factor in the distribution of rewards?

    Same with religion. Why don't women establish a religion such as Christianity or Islam themselves instead of trying to steal what men have built over the millennia?

    And don't go on about discrimination or exclusion The Jews are the most discriminated against group in Western society throughout recorded history. They have been murdered in their millions, been denied land and citizenship, been forcibly ethnically cleansed from country after country, been denied education and legal status and political rights, and been relegated to ghettos and concentration camps. And yet they have made a singular and outstanding contribution to society in industry and science, literature, religion (Christ was a Jew), music and film, and have been awarded a disproportionate number of Nobel prizes. Western women have not suffered discrimination on that level. So if the Jews can do it, why can't privileged, educated, Western women?

    The answer? It's easier to steal from someone else who's already done the work than it is to do it yourself from scratch.
    Anonymous
    8th Mar 2019
    11:53am
    Hey Radish
    Good to see you posting again. You certainly are a breath of fresh air and am intelligent poster
    Keep your comments coming :)
    Arvo
    8th Mar 2019
    1:04pm
    After seeing the Jews and Christians prosper with their beliefs for 800 years Islam was created to counter the populist movement.
    It is written in history that Christianity was began by the Jews in Judea.
    jackie
    9th Mar 2019
    12:08pm
    radish....All religions are business made and run by man NOT God.

    A cap on the highest salary Could stop inflation, create more jobs and make life a bit more fair for the real workers.

    What about the inventions and achievements by women that were stolen by men?

    You don't sound like a woman at all.
    TREBOR
    9th Mar 2019
    12:27pm
    List them .....
    Hoohoo
    10th Mar 2019
    6:59pm
    Men could not have achieved a single thing if they weren't being kept by their mother, wife, husband (yes males can marry each other now) or a boarding house. No-one can reach the pinnacle in their field of excellence if their time is taken up with the necessary, time-consuming, domestic work that all humans require for existence.
    Hoohoo
    10th Mar 2019
    7:06pm
    Yes, radish, it IS easy to steal the limelight when no-one else can see those supporting you behind the scenes in their full time, unpaid positions.

    Religion? Who wants any of that stupid & sometimes quite evil, patriarchy? Jesus wouldn't have had a bar of it! Most religions are designed to control the masses & that requires having half the workforce confined to their homes, unpaid, for the society to function at all.
    Hoohoo
    10th Mar 2019
    7:09pm
    Further, radish, "Isn't contribution a relevant factor in the distribution of rewards?" IF ONLY IT WAS! Women would be in a much better financial situation if they were rewarded for all their contributions.

    Don't you realise our society would fall apart in less than a week, if unpaid work ceased?
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    9:08am
    .. and those women couldn't have prospered without men taking on the roles they did, either..

    Get over 'feminism' and get with humanity.
    Not a Bludger
    8th Mar 2019
    11:56am
    OMG - yet another biased and skewed survey - the majority of available responses are all negative and most of those carry an overtone of victimhood.
    Fact is most women in Australia are comfortable in their own skin and are in caring and loving family relationships.
    And, most of these have no time for this leftie promoted, fake event.
    Paddington
    8th Mar 2019
    12:19pm
    It is an international event, not Australia centred. It is about the rights of women all over the world. It has many key issues attached to it. No man should feel threatened by it. It is a celebration of women and good men applaud and support it. It is not about countering it with opposing issues or arguments. It stands alone. Just say Happy International Womens day and enjoy the day with the women in your life.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    12:55pm
    Well - we don't live all over the world - we live here.... and we cannot influence much more than a protest over the conditions of anyone elsewhere.... unless we take on the mantle of the world's policeperson and invade every nation with who's culture etc we disagree....

    Again - it wasn't we men who put the survey up there with its utter nonsense.. if you are the Paddo girl I know - you've never missed a square meal....

    As a man said elsewhere - I adore and laud your gender - I simply loathe the way it is being debased.... words to that effect.

    Women should be applauding and supporting and even thanking men for the chances they now have... now - which one of you built that university that is such a cold-bed of feminist fury these days??? Come on.. come on - what ELSE have men ever done for you, eh?
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    12:56pm
    'whose culture' you stupid spell checker... damn your eyes!!! Who's is 'who is'... damn your eyes twice!!!
    Not a Bludger
    8th Mar 2019
    3:45pm
    Well now Paddington - may I declare my hand.
    As a happily married man with a female wife, with three daughters (all of whom are making their way at senior level and, incidently, all happily married) plus a couple of grand daughters whom I am sure will make their own way - I am certain that none of them require the crutch of some socialist “international” construct to help them on their way - or make them feel “empowered” or “better”.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    6:06pm
    Same with my daughter, NaB - and I hope the grand-daughters whoare yong yet - but Grampa will have to get up there soon to check on their progress..
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    6:06pm
    damn - touchy keyboard - 'grand-daughters who are young yet do the same ' ...
    KB
    8th Mar 2019
    12:03pm
    Ted well said. There should be no issues with gender with super wages etc. All should be equal. For the record some men do just as raising children for whatever they have to care for their children whatever personal reasons
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    12:13pm
    As a matter of interest - again elsewhere - I put together a runndown on what actually constitutes 'caregiving' - and it is a very VERY equal thing for men and women - the idea of attaching 'primary caregiver status' to women is emotional and not rational, and is in fact, a gross insult to humanity and the way people actually work.
    KB
    8th Mar 2019
    12:03pm
    Ted well said. There should be no issues with gender with super wages etc. All should be equal. For the record some men do just as raising children for whatever they have to care for their children whatever personal reasons
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    12:15pm
    Nah - NAH!!! If you are having trouble with you comment posting - hit 'post' wait a few seconds and then hit 'the circle thing up near the top - refresh your page - it will then post...

    Don't keep hitting the button ...
    Misty
    9th Mar 2019
    11:08pm
    Or just hit the F5 key after post and that works too,{For most people}.
    Hoohoo
    10th Mar 2019
    7:16pm
    KB I'm glad to hear there are more men out there caring for their children, because it suits them to do so. I have a niece who split from her husband & they cooperated very well with each other to separate.
    He continued caring for the children half the time, as he'd always done. She wanted to move away but they decided to stay in close proximity, because she couldn't do it without his help (& he couldn't do it without her help).
    KB
    8th Mar 2019
    12:03pm
    Ted well said. There should be no issues with gender with super wages etc. All should be equal. For the record some men do just as raising children for whatever they have to care for their children whatever personal reasons
    KB
    8th Mar 2019
    12:03pm
    Ted well said. There should be no issues with gender with super wages etc. All should be equal. For the record some men do just as raising children for whatever they have to care for their children whatever personal reasons
    KB
    8th Mar 2019
    12:03pm
    Ted well said. There should be no issues with gender with super wages etc. All should be equal. For the record some men do just as raising children for whatever they have to care for their children whatever personal reasons
    MD
    8th Mar 2019
    5:35pm
    That's the spirit KB, what goes round, goes round - "There is a time, turn, turn..."
    Paddington
    8th Mar 2019
    12:26pm
    https://www.internationalwomensday.com/About
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    12:08pm
    "International Women's Day is all about unity, celebration, reflection, advocacy and action"

    Hmm - that pretty much says it all - it's a peaceful approach to undefined equality via a process of action that may often result in direct harm to others....

    It's not the philosophy behind such things that counts, Paddo - it's the way it is handled - the nuts and bolters so to speak... high sounding words pale into insignificance when confronted by a mass grave of anyone seen as 'opposition'... the Great Communist Revolution sounded great to its theoretical propounders - a wondrous and glorious upward march of humanity and civilisation until confronted by the mass graves at Hue, for instance... and any number of other spots in the world.
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    12:11pm
    Do you know what the 'crime' of the citizens of Hue was? To promote a Middle Way, a Third Way - a Buddhist peaceful way between the warring groups of Communism and 'Capitalism' in Vietnam...

    Somehow that has echoes in the 'revolutionary movements' of today.... you're either with them 100% or you are a mortal enemy .... crazy as......
    Zen
    8th Mar 2019
    12:41pm
    A 'liveable' universal pension, assured reasonable, safe accommodation where people have access to & participation in community .... with effective income distribution to have this happen...a true 'common wealth'.
    This sounds like a 'civilised' society that values all people of all ages
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    12:57pm
    .. all without any gender bias.....

    SOLD!!

    Qui bono, BTW - qui bono from all this politics of division these days?

    8th Mar 2019
    12:54pm
    All this extra “compensation” for staying at home looking after babies , parents grandkids plus loss of super will be paid by whom ?
    And what about the unemployed who HAVE to stay home and by default do housework
    Oh and don’t forget the single dads who have to do 3 jobs - real work , looks after kids and do ALL the housework - they should get 3 times the average wage plus super
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    12:59pm
    Yup - sometimes your comments make sense.... (snuckles)... as I said - once you start to pay one for such things, for time off for any reason etc - you have to pay all and it never ends...

    It MUST end right here and now. You get what you work for..
    Hoohoo
    12th Mar 2019
    6:38pm
    But who ARE YOU? Your name has totally disappeared. Should we just presume you're a troll? Who are you?

    Your definition of a "single dad" sounds like the definition for many married women who work outside the home (as well as their other two unpaid jobs). They're all heroes!

    And TREBOR, they only get paid for one of their three jobs. It's all work, despite your denials.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    1:07pm
    "Are women there yet in terms of equality?"

    Look at the title - what has this to do with 'appreciating international women's day'? Two totally separate issues....
    Paddington
    8th Mar 2019
    1:53pm
    You are too biased on this issue Trebor. The fact that some are supporting you who never do shows that you are a different person when it comes to women because they have obviously hurt you.
    You do not know me so don’t presume to do so. Leave gender out!
    Keep up the good work on all the issues that don’t impact your judgment.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    3:40pm
    Not biased at all - factual....
    MD
    8th Mar 2019
    5:37pm
    And the definition of 'Fact'?
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    6:08pm
    Read what I've posted... nothing biased in it and much of it clearly analytical....
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    10:37am
    I'm not going to feed you data from which to work or confine you to looking only at what I use to arrive at my conclusions - do your own research on the issues, draw your own conclusions, and then post them publicly.

    We'll go from there....
    MICK
    8th Mar 2019
    1:46pm
    Are you serious Janelle or simply stoking the fires of "inequality"?
    Women don't want equality. They want THEIR WAY. There's a difference.

    I watched Sunrise yesterday morning. First time ever. What hit me was TWO WOMEN PRESENTERS and then 3 stories...ALL concerning women.

    You may want to check out almost all of the mainstream media programs: news, current affairs, panels, sports commentary, etc. Women are now in the majority. It appears you consider this to be "equality"?
    Then there is the health budget. As I have written on a number of occasions prostate cancer kills more men than breast cancer kills women. but the spending is almopst 100% on breast cancer. Is that another example of "equality"?

    You may wish to look up the meaning of equality and stop cherry picking on wages when you REFUSE to discuss this in the context of many women WANTING part time work as well as significant absences from the workplace to have children. You are just milking this for all it is worth. Fairness and "equality" are not of interest to you and I find this quite despicable. It reminds me of Tony Abbott when he was elected in 2010.
    Anonymous
    8th Mar 2019
    4:29pm
    Throughout the media all one hears is wimmin this. wimmin that, wimmin wimmin wimmin! I'm sick and bloody tired of it.

    They moan about the (chimerical) Glass Ceiling. Well, I point to the (real) Glass Cellar - inhabited overwhelmingly by MEN.
    Brissiegirl
    8th Mar 2019
    5:12pm
    Mick's comment about women t.v. presenters - sooo true. They now far outnumber men. When women presenters with screeching high-pitched voices appear I ask my hubby (the remote controller) to please quickly "get rid of it". As a woman I much prefer male voices and male images and wonder why on earth t.v. employers are force-feeding the wider public with ditsy women when many of us prefer looking at and listening to men. Some women definitely have pleasant, bearable voices, but predominantly the screeching sound gets stuck somewhere in the top of my head. Where have all the calm, deep voiced male newsreaders gone? Oh, that's it, gender (im) balance.

    Yes prostate cancer kills more men that breast cancer kills women. A disgraceful statistic given the imbalance in funding and medical research. Also, employers don't want women applicants because their demands are so often unreasonable and do what they can to avoid employing them without being hounded out of town for not applying imposed quotas.

    Yes, it's time for men to stop taking this crap any longer. Just stand up and say, "No more". And by the way, there's so many frizzled up single old women towards their 40's who men don't want to take them on any more. Men are learning to live without all the psychological hassles. I have one of the many fabulous men as my long-term husband and thank my lucky stars for his many strengths every day. Men have become a disposable gender - and that's more reasons this nonsensical International Women's Day makes me sick.
    GeorgeM
    9th Mar 2019
    3:55pm
    Good summary, MICK, and excellent, highly perceptive comments again Brissiegirl.
    Adrianus
    10th Mar 2019
    10:46am
    MICK, your beloved Layba Pardy claims to be on track to reach their 50% gender equality quota by this federal election. Would you be disappointed if they fail on that target?
    Adrianus
    10th Mar 2019
    10:46am
    MICK, your beloved Layba Pardy claims to be on track to reach their 50% gender equality quota by this federal election. Would you be disappointed if they fail on that target?
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    9:11am
    Quotas are wrong, pure and simple - unless you live in a society of all simple people so that actual merit and ability means nothing.

    Better to have 'blind' applications that do not specify anything about gender etc.
    Hoohoo
    12th Mar 2019
    7:07pm
    MICK, "their way" should be for 51% of the time, surely? That's equality.'

    Why are you all so surprised that women dominated the airwaves on International Women's Day? Can't you even bear it for ONE DAY? And what is the gender breakdown of the audience for these trashy morning shows? My guess is they are targeting women more than men, judging by the content of celebrity gossip & other such guff, which seems to appeal to women more than to men (I'm ashamed to say).

    Studies show that women make more spending decisions than do men, so it's commercially prudent for the Presenters to appeal to their target market for ratings & advertising income. I wish it weren't so. Of course, you're free to switch it off.
    Issy
    8th Mar 2019
    2:38pm
    I am 69 years old. I was a secondary teacher with the Victorian Education Department. I spent 3 days being tested to see if I was allowed to join the Super fund. When I married, I was expelled from super. All my subscriptions were returned to me with NO interest, MINUS handling costs.I could have joined the Married Womens fund, but it had conditions which were way inferior to the mens fund. By the time I returned to teaching, after 4 children, Super had changed so the conditions enjoyed by males I trained with ( a pension of 70% of your final salary, indexed to increase) were changed to a lump sum, (what you paid in, with interest). My generation of women were VERY hardly done by.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    3:41pm
    A long time ago in a faraway galaxy..... times have changed...those conditions no longer apply.
    Sundays
    8th Mar 2019
    3:47pm
    Yes, Issa my parents made me leave school at 16 and I didn’t get to Uni unti my 30s. I passed the entrance exam and got a job in a bank. The year before, they changed the rules that women had to resign on marriage. I asked how I’m could train as a Teller and was told it was a job for men only because they were better with numbers! Fast forward, and equal pay came in 1974, and so did Bankcard. Yet the bank wouldn’t give me one without my husbands permission. The company I worked for would only let men join the super scheme and on and on. I cringe now when I watch old movies because two things stand out. Cigarette smoking and blatant sexism.
    Sundays
    8th Mar 2019
    4:06pm
    The consequences apply today Trebor. Issy would have been better off if she had been allowed to stay in the Super scheme. A man in the same position could have preserved his benefit and picked up where he left off.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    4:08pm
    I agree the past was dismal - but that by no means justifies any 'catch-up' or 'make up' by 'punishing men as some 'feminists seek to do, and which BTW, started in 1982 with the false paradigm of 'equal employment opportunity' which somehow, despite massive 'progress' (70% women in the public service etc) remains in place to this day.

    You reckon that's no punishing men?

    Besides - is it not bizarre that women can complain endlessly about 'poor treatment', but the moment a man complains or even sets the record straight - he is a whinger, a misogynist, a woman-hater, and a loser??
    Sundays
    8th Mar 2019
    4:57pm
    Women who use those words towards men do not have my support.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    6:13pm
    Equal pay since the 1970's, no forced retirement since the 1970's, affirmative action since 1982 - fifty years not enough?

    Yes - that approach was unfair - but in my day at primary school in civilised Australia (NSW - not Victoria) we had many women teachers - same in high school. Even in 1960 high school the French master was a Mistress.... married to an Italian who spoke French or something.. maybe a Swiss .... the librarian of course stood apart... and all the boys would have willingly fallen at her feet... (herh-herh - I was her favourite)... got to read Freud in my time alone in the library....
    jackie
    9th Mar 2019
    12:19pm
    issy...I left school at 15 to work and got a degree later in life when I could afford to.

    It wasn't that long back when women could not get a house loan without a husband. I had a friend that had sex with her manager to get hers.

    Child support came in because men refused to pay for their children. Children were a notch on the belt to them. They bragged about them at the pub but didn't want to know them in real life.

    Women have come forward since them. The Me Too Movement is another good cause. The younger generation male is so much better. They must make their mothers proud.
    TREBOR
    9th Mar 2019
    12:33pm
    Living in the past is no recommendation for the present.... get over it and move on.

    Many people suffered many things in the past without compensation - get over it and get on with it.

    "Children were a notch on the belt to them. They bragged about them at the pub but didn't want to know them in real life."

    Wow - you ARE a bitter one, aren't you? Most men never did any such thing, and most marital relationships are broken up by women - and not over violence, either - because they simply 'feel' whatever they claim to feel. Then they expect to be handed the children, the home, a decent job as well (often pushing men out of the way with affirmative action etc), then they complain they don't get enough child support from the now impoverished man while totally controlling his access to HIS children, and even when he is thrown out of work by closure of his work or is sick or injured these women complain he's not giving them enough .... and then you complain?

    You ARE a bitter one, aren't you?
    TREBOR
    9th Mar 2019
    12:38pm
    Sometimes these same women move 1000 miles away as some kind of right, and then complain that the kid's father doesn't visit them or take an interest.... while he's struggling to earn enough to keep going and contnue to house and feed them as well without having any rights or privileges or even say over their education and socialisation etc.

    You point out clearly the absolute sickness of the current handling of separation and the rape of the rights of fathers.......

    Always nice to see people like you come along and give us such clear insights into reality.
    Hoohoo
    12th Mar 2019
    7:24pm
    You made me laugh out loud, TREBOR, with your opening statement "Living in the past is no recommendation for the present.... get over it and move on."

    Oh the irony!

    And why shouldn't women leave unhappy marriages, EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT BASHED?

    I suspect you'd prefer the good old days when women had to put up with lack of respect, lack of acknowledgement, lack of independence & lack of adult status. They couldn't leave because they were so trapped, & they'd lose their children.
    How many women were committed to a mental institution by their families, for simply being unhappy or not submitting to the (unspoken & sexist) rules?
    And how many women had no choice at all about how many babies they had to bear? Even the Queen of England, Queen Victoria, was just like any commoner when it came to marriage & endless baby-bearing.
    Only 54
    8th Mar 2019
    2:41pm
    First, Trebor, thank you for your excellent commentary on this issue.

    Second, Brissiegirl, thank you for being a rare breath of fresh air.

    Third, what truly amazes me is the sheer volume of misinformation the circulates about the gender pay gap. Sadly, almost every person I discuss this issue with believes that the stated gap of around 16% is the disparity for "like for like" work, when it is actually just the difference between a broad average of paid full time employment (defined at 35 hrs or more a week) for men and women without any adjustment for hours actually worked, career choice etc. Men seem to be just as ignorant as women about this fact.

    Fourth, I think Jordan Peterson said it best when he said that what is important is equality of rights and opportunities (as all good men will agree) and not equality of outcomes. When we focus on equality of rights and opportunities, we celebrate differences and choices, but when we focus on equality of outcomes we open Pandora's Box and chaos follows, as night follows day. If we want equality of outcomes then surely the best of those poor underpaid male catwalk models should be paid like supermodels... yes?

    And lastly, I think it's time we replace the term Pyrrhic Victory with Feminist Victory. Independence has been achieved (and thank goodness for that) but the cost in terms of expectations, workload and financial stress is horrible for men and horrendous for women. As Trebor has noted, essentially the entire benefit of more women entering the workforce and therefore more double income households has been capitalized into house prices, which is great if you went along for the ride, but is a travesty for my and our children and all future generations. Studies confirm this because they show that overall women are no happier than before and perhaps this explains why so many people clutch at equality of outcomes in the hope that it will bring the happiness they expected to find. Sadly, I doubt it, and the reverse may well be true because equality of outcomes will either require discrimination or take away choice and that seems like a recipe for more unhappiness to me.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    8:36pm
    The 'gap' conspicuously coincides with the relative number of hours worked by women compared to the number of hours worked by men - at the last census tat was 32 point something for women and 41 point something for men. A simple calculation will show that women earn precisely the same per hour as men overall.... and in the easy jobs, too!
    Adrianus
    10th Mar 2019
    10:59am
    TREBOR, why bring mathematical correlations into the argument? This march to utopia by the left has little to do with those sort of facts. Only 54 is 100% correct.
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    9:13am
    Sorry, Adrianus - didn't mean to introduce anything that might upset the onward march of 'feminist' demands.

    **hangs head in shame**
    Only 54
    8th Mar 2019
    2:41pm
    First, Trebor, thank you for your excellent commentary on this issue.

    Second, Brissiegirl, thank you for being a rare breath of fresh air.

    Third, what truly amazes me is the sheer volume of misinformation the circulates about the gender pay gap. Sadly, almost every person I discuss this issue with believes that the stated gap of around 16% is the disparity for "like for like" work, when it is actually just the difference between a broad average of paid full time employment (defined at 35 hrs or more a week) for men and women without any adjustment for hours actually worked, career choice etc. Men seem to be just as ignorant as women about this fact.

    Fourth, I think Jordan Peterson said it best when he said that what is important is equality of rights and opportunities (as all good men will agree) and not equality of outcomes. When we focus on equality of rights and opportunities, we celebrate differences and choices, but when we focus on equality of outcomes we open Pandora's Box and chaos follows, as night follows day. If we want equality of outcomes then surely the best of those poor underpaid male catwalk models should be paid like supermodels... yes?

    And lastly, I think it's time we replace the term Pyrrhic Victory with Feminist Victory. Independence has been achieved (and thank goodness for that) but the cost in terms of expectations, workload and financial stress is horrible for men and horrendous for women. As Trebor has noted, essentially the entire benefit of more women entering the workforce and therefore more double income households has been capitalized into house prices, which is great if you went along for the ride, but is a travesty for my and our children and all future generations. Studies confirm this because they show that overall women are no happier than before and perhaps this explains why so many people clutch at equality of outcomes in the hope that it will bring the happiness they expected to find. Sadly, I doubt it, and the reverse may well be true because equality of outcomes will either require discrimination or take away choice and that seems like a recipe for more unhappiness to me.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    4:06pm
    I try - but it's off the top of my head - the entire range of issues is far more complex than that and requires a book.. I do write books, but not just at the moment on this subject.
    pjvixen
    8th Mar 2019
    3:10pm
    There is a massive superannuation gap because women, before compulsory employer supplied super, did not have any super. It was not considered necessary as they would have a husband to support them and any children. Of course not many men had super either unless they were somewhere high up in their employment or government employees. When my father died, his super finish and my mother was left without an income at all.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    4:04pm
    Yes - I wonder how it is that someone can invest over a lifetime in super and then have it resumed on death.... hmmmm.

    That will change, let me tell you...
    Sundays
    8th Mar 2019
    3:29pm
    Happy International Womens Day to every woman who has had to overcome obstacles in the schools, the home and the workplace. For women of my generation brought up to believe that a woman’s place was in the home, the obstacles have been many. Young women these days have us to thank. They can finish school, go to university, get a job with equal pay, get a loan and enter into contracts, buy a house, continue to work after marriage, play the sport they want to, work in any field they are qualified for and yes still care for the family.

    It’s not about superannuation gaps, or quotas it’s about equal treatment. We need more representation in parliament, and on Boards but not tokenism but we’re getring there. Sadly, many of our sisters around the world have a long way to go
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    3:44pm
    They have men to thank, as well, Sundays - after all it was the 'male-dominated society' .. the 'patriarchy' that 'feminists want to take over and control ... that put all those things in place....

    Equal numbers does not equal equal treatment.
    Sundays
    8th Mar 2019
    3:57pm
    I think you’re negating things women fought for eg equal pay. Many men agreed but some dinosaurs came kicking and screaming. I remember being asked by some old guy (lol) why I was married and working when my job should go to young men leaving school. I responded with you could always retire! This was in the 80s. However, I am the first to acknowledge that men from working class backgrounds also missed out on opportunities. This is where some of the well heeled feminists missed the point.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    6:20pm
    Let's be honest - how exactly did a minority of workers 'fight' for equal pay? It came about because of a (dread these words) consensus on the part of the Union movement and government... and was voted in by men ..... historically women received the vote in Oz at the first opportunity men had to universally vote on it as an issue - at a time when men were 60% of the community .... by contrast, the Suffragettes in Britain actually delayed female suffrage until 1920 because of their shenanigans and their violence, because they were considered to show that women were not responsible enough to vote ....... the heroic woman social warrior is a myth..

    Feminism, as an ideology, is like the French Revolution, and indeed every revolutionary movement - it is essentially middle class and as such is designed by those who have always been comfortable enough and had the time etc to develop the ideology.

    By no means does it represent the often very real issues of ordinary women, but only the fevered thoughts of some few closeted and cosseted academics. The proof of that statement is in the extreme number of women going it alone and doing it tough on part-time casual, and a few other issues.

    Please - don't demand another book....

    8th Mar 2019
    4:09pm
    YLC needs to read Dr Warren Farrell's book "The Myth of Male Power". Men are the disposable sex, and women privileged - as the book incontrovertibly demonstrates.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    6:21pm
    **plays first twelve minutes of Saving Private Ryan'...**
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    6:23pm
    An alien social studies professor looking down would conclude that women are the master class....... and their lap dogs and cats control them ...... society has always been developed around protection of the central group of females and offspring, for which many of the young males die as early warning systems for predators or in actual combat to defend.
    Hoohoo
    12th Mar 2019
    7:28pm
    Males die more than females because they indulge in risk-taking behavior.
    Anonymous
    13th Mar 2019
    4:10pm
    Yes, Hoohoo - protecting women.
    Dot
    8th Mar 2019
    5:00pm
    Back to the kitchen you damn women there are more important issues facing this country and the whole world. Let the males get on with running this country. As I've always have said there are far too fannies across all levels of Government that's why Australia has become a dog breakfast.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    6:27pm
    Wow - let me take that onboard for a while and chew it over ....
    Dot
    8th Mar 2019
    5:00pm
    Back to the kitchen you damn women there are more important issues facing this country and the whole world. Let the males get on with running this country. As I've always have said there are far too fannies across all levels of Government that's why Australia has become a dog breakfast.
    MD
    8th Mar 2019
    5:50pm
    Arhh Dot... the 'vulva and vagina' article was earlier this week and not to be confused with "far too (many? sic), fannies". Please forgive me for being such a douche!
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    8:39pm
    The Vulva is the Swedish car and the Vagina is Latin for queen, isn't it?

    **wipes tear from eye** Gawd bless 'Er Maj! *sniffs**
    Brissiegirl
    8th Mar 2019
    6:40pm
    Now that there are more women than men at university, and that statistic is being celebrated on International Women's Day, how will this gender inequality be addressed, or will it? I think not.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    8:46pm
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD65wnDGuTg

    This lady has a series out, and in one of them she takes on the issue of women in universities being treated as a minority - 62% of students are women - you're not a minority! Not only that, but you expect a gold carpet ride in life for having a 'degree' in something or other...

    Complain all you like about the past - in my time at school, though I had the highest IQ in my class and was one of three highest IQs in the school - I was unlikely to get a university run for the simple reason that my family did not have the wherewithal and did not do much except throw me out after I graduated high school at fifteen - read it - fifteen.... I spent years in menial jobs and military things.... didn't get to university until I was 26. Have since studied economics/accounting, refugee and Asian Pacific issues and national security, terrorism/counter-terrorism, some alternative medicine.....

    Only 2% at most went on to study at degree level in those days... so all this guff about women being excluded is nonsense - a girl in my class - older and with steady family - went on to a Ph.D in mathematics starting straight from school and money all her life - other girls went on to teaching careers and such ... I had to get by on pittances of wages until I entered military service just to eat.

    All this garbage about women is just that - garbage.
    Janus
    8th Mar 2019
    8:16pm
    Interesting that so many respondants to this and most other questions on this Web page are men.

    I suspect many men don't actually grasp the true meaning of inequality, as all of our lives are spent thinking that others are not equal to oursleves - better or worse. Having had many conversations about inequality, I think that there ARE difference between the sexes, but that this does not mean that everyone has those differences to the same extent, nor do any of the differences make the person better or worse.

    I employed many people in my working life, and selected and paid people on their merits and capacity, not their colour, race, sex or anything else.

    Except their age. No set-in-your-ways bigoted old farts like us lot. Couldn't use them. Always knew they were right, even if they weren't.
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    8:48pm
    Thanks for the comic relief....
    TREBOR
    8th Mar 2019
    8:53pm
    You don't employ old farts because they know it all? What an utter waste of true talent as opposed to front.... old farts often DO know it all or plenty of it....

    Set-in-their-way bigoted old farts? Where you bin, Laden? Speak for yourself while making jokes here..... and smile when you say that pilgrim... or even better laugh at the joke.... seems to me that the younger folk assume they 'know it all'....

    BTW - how many applicants did you go through per job? Studies have shown that interviews are THE worst possible way of employing...... a good interviewee is not usually the best choice.. just a good interviewee.....

    What kind of 'work' was this? Can't see your average Boy Colonel or Girl General or Hormonal Hitler taking on anything too hard.. physically or mentally....
    Anonymous
    8th Mar 2019
    11:42pm
    Give it a rest now Trebor.
    You’re whipping yourself into a frenzy and sounding like an absolute nut job
    Are you bipolar by any chance ?
    If I were you I’d get yourself checked out
    TREBOR
    9th Mar 2019
    12:07am
    No frenzy at all.... just cold calculated dissection, my son.... and no - unlike many I have a clean bill of mental health... I'm certified sane by the DVA.....

    Not my fault that some offer silly comments....
    TREBOR
    9th Mar 2019
    12:09am
    Poor little Lothario - feeling the pressure, are we? Can't take a trick, so resort to absurd personal slights... again?

    Did-ums ......
    TREBOR
    9th Mar 2019
    12:18am
    ... and your support for ageism is noted, both of you.... (parasites)....
    Janus
    9th Mar 2019
    7:39am
    Whizzing noise as the mullet takes the bait and runs....
    TREBOR
    9th Mar 2019
    11:59am
    Gotcha, Chief....
    Hoohoo
    13th Mar 2019
    11:25am
    Anonymous, your comment is totally out of line.

    When I was 14 I remember thinking I knew everything. Now I know that anyone who claims to know everything is on a childish power trip. How boring life would be if there was nothing new to learn?
    Sophie
    8th Mar 2019
    9:39pm
    Today is a celebration for women all around the world,
    Ladies who've dared to dream big, ever since they were little girls.
    For the diversity and talent that lie within a feminine heart,
    For the courage and determination that prevents us falling apart.
    We can raise families and build businesses and be proud of all we've achieved
    Where once over, visions of that scale, could never have been believed.

    Ladies, stand up and be counted, smile at how far we have come
    And Cherish every single day, as daughter, wife, companions or mum.
    Don't let anybody tell you that there are set paths for you to follow
    As a little girl with a passion, is an inspiring woman of tomorrow.
    So celebrate all women, and acknowledge the great things they do
    And tell a lady close to your heart, just how much she means to you.

    Happy International Women's Day!

    .
    TREBOR
    9th Mar 2019
    3:18pm
    Yes - praise real women and all their positives.... I'll agree with that!! Not the same issue as complaining about whether or not women have made it yet or something... Jayzuz!

    That's the difference between watching and enjoying a Gay Mardi Gras for the fun of it and having it turned into a parade of Gay Gripe.....
    Sophie
    10th Mar 2019
    11:00am
    Seems we are on the same page TREBOR. I am for real feminism..not the brand that wants to cut men down. My belief is men and women working together can change the world.

    Behind every great woman is a great man and behind every great man is a great woman!
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    9:15am
    Right on, Sophie

    **gives person power salute on Olympic podium**
    Hoohoo
    13th Mar 2019
    11:31am
    Great comments, Sophie, but not all great people are in a heterosexual partnership, or any partnership (with a great woman or great man behind them).
    Some great people are free of partners altogether, for example, Ita Buttose.
    Sophie
    13th Mar 2019
    6:43pm
    Thanks for pointing that out Hoohoo..you are absolutely right!

    .
    musicveg
    9th Mar 2019
    8:51pm
    Only five countries have true equality between men and women, and Australia is not one of them.
    musicveg
    9th Mar 2019
    9:02pm
    And when women stop having the need to wear make up, wear high heels, get hair done etc and just be happy in their own skin like men do, we will also have more equality.
    Anonymous
    10th Mar 2019
    3:18am
    Australia's feminist elite should move to Iceland, Rwanda or wherever else they believe is the end of the rainbow.

    Not so sure that many of them might give up the expensive fashion and trinket shops and cafes of Double Bay and other 'networking' attractions in Skidney and Malburne.
    Sophie
    10th Mar 2019
    11:04am
    .
    musicveg...

    Have I got news for you!! According to comparison site Mozo, Aussies spend upward of $32 billion a year on their looks, with men forking out an average of $125 a month, which isn’t far behind women who spend an average of $167 a month.

    While the most popular vanity costs for men include things like grooming (could include manscaping the eyebrows or other sections of the body), vitamins, supplements, and gym memberships, one in five males said they were also treating themselves to manicures, pedicures and makeup, with more men conscious about blemishes and dark circles under their eyes.

    The research indicated men also weren’t afraid to drop cash on other little luxuries, such as hair colour, skincare treatments and hair removal.


    .
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    9:17am
    Have to agree there, music... I once, looking at a newspaper article about a girl who committed suicide because she 'wasn't pretty enough', shook my head and mumbled the AC/DC line...."it was all in the name of 'liberty" ...

    High heels are murder on the feet... stupid shoes....
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    10:45am
    What are these five nation, BTW?

    (warden of the cinque bottles of port?)
    Aviator
    11th Mar 2019
    8:02pm
    Trebore did some woman beat the crap outa you and that's why you don't like all women?

    10th Mar 2019
    2:59am
    Everyone should have equality of opportunity but equality of outcome is the failed Marxist ideal.

    Why is it that some women in the developed democracies are so resentful of men when they should be leaping for joy at the wonderful lives and opportunities they enjoy in those countries?

    If what the feminist speakers at these womwhingefests have been saying about men for decades has any truth at all, then women should be refusing to have any relations with men at all.

    Thank God that political correctness decrees that international mens days slip by without acknowledgement. One day with less demonising of men is a blessing.
    Adrianus
    10th Mar 2019
    10:30am
    I would like to see a women only poll, which would give a more accurate answer to the question.. " are we there yet?"
    Men are naturally protective of women therefor in my opinion many men would skew the result to favour some kind of security. A woman should be able to walk home in safety.

    The results of this survey show a clear request for more money. I don't think its a good idea for taxpayers to financially reward people for being female, but I do agree that women should save more.
    Adrianus
    10th Mar 2019
    10:41am
    I often wonder what happens when the female quota is reached in the workplace? Do we then drop the title "Gender Equality?" as we did with "Global Warming?" Perhaps that will be an indication that we have reached the nirvana?
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    9:22am
    As in the Commonwealth Public service - once they get to the decision spots - they promote one another, Adrianus, on some false assumption that women are 'better team players' (more subservient and less likely to bring up a difficult idea - less likely to object to a stupid policy idea), 'better at detailed work' (demonstrably no difference between men and women), 'more reliable' (figures how the opposite) .... you name it....

    At the rime I resigned, several men were going through the phase of the PS labeling such men who expected a fair return for outstanding work as 'too competitive' (in some mythical male sense - women could compete as much as they liked but that was no problem).. some were getting out on head disability and copping 2/3 of salary for life indexed

    As a gentleman, I refused that option and and resigned as a matter of principle over the false paradigm of affirmative action, and within two years was earning, in outside work, as much as the Sydney head of the department I had been working for...
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    9:28am
    Affirmative Action has been in place for 37 years...that's at least two generations of 'new starters' in the workforce (let's say age 18 at start) - it has yet - according to 'feminists' and their running dogs, and despite the reality that women now occupy massively certain job areas - apparently done nothing to resolve the dire issues of poor, poor women.

    One salient area is superannuation - with women now dominating the lovely super spots in government, teaching, banking, healthcare and so forth along with the sweet jobs - by 2041 there will be a clear advantage to women in the superannuation stakes....

    Will there be an outcry then? Or will they focus on 'Billy Fudger the Chocolate Giant has a HUGE super fund.. why can't all women have that' instead of their meagre public service funding for life?

    Meantime men are occupying top spots under the bridges in greater and greater numbers....
    Adrianus
    11th Mar 2019
    11:00am
    Some women are refusing to be swept along by this enthusiastic rush toward emancipation . Instead preferring to be stay at home mums pre, WW2 style, with a Centrelink salary way above the average wage.
    Paddington
    11th Mar 2019
    7:30pm
    Centrelink salary way above the average wage?!?!
    Prove it!
    Adrianus
    12th Mar 2019
    10:09am
    As viewed on "A Current Affair" 7th December 2018.
    " But Kelly, who receives $1948 a fortnight in Centrelink benefits, claims her friend who also has nine kids gets paid $750 more than her. "
    Adrianus
    12th Mar 2019
    10:11am
    Another failed social engineering experiment at taxpayers expense.
    TREBOR
    11th Mar 2019
    3:02pm
    HEEEEEY! WE DEMAND THE SURVEY RESULTS AND SOME CUTTING COMMENTS THAT CHOP TO THE QUICK AND THE DEAD HERE!!
    Adrianus
    12th Mar 2019
    10:32am
    Not a good time to be a man atm. However, men are getting kicked around because we are the tall poppies. When all this politically correct nonsense is over and women are dominating every aspect of our lives, out of desire and necessity, real women (those who know how to be gentle, strong and independent), of substance, will come to the aid of real men.
    Hang in there gentlemen, our time will come. Our exile to the man caves will be short lived!.
    ex PS
    13th Mar 2019
    9:34am
    Kicked around, dominated, things that can only happen if you allow it to happen. What is it that women have that makes you feel insecure Adrianus?

    Equality, do we even know what that means, is it related to responsibility and accountability? A woman may claim that they are disadvantaged because they bear children, who makes the decision whether to have children in most cases, a woman may claim that they're not given the opportunity to enter into higher management positions, are they not given the opportunity to apply, or is it that they don't get the position when they do? Is that because they are women or is it because they are not the best candidate?

    Women should be treated equally, but they will never be equal to men, just as men will never be equal to women, we have fundamental physical and psychological differences that will never be naturally reconciled.

    There is only one way to compare wages, whilst performing the same work, how many hours do you put in and how many dollars were you paid? If they are equal you are being paid the right amount, if not, you are being paid too little or too much.

    All this business about childcare and childbearing are relevant, but not to the equal pay debate.
    KIAH
    13th Mar 2019
    12:43pm
    Feminism impacts political, economic, and social equality of the sexes. It’s is not only for women it is very important that men embrace it for many reasons, a few mentioned here.

    Feminism can improve male mental health. Male suicide has increased and although there are a number of theories why this is happening, most research mention the expectations on men to behave in a certain way as a main contributing factor. Men are expected to be strong and are afraid to seek help because they don’t want to appear weak. Through feminism and gender equality we can finally give men permission to freely express their feelings and seek help when they need it.

    Feminism will improve both family life and society as a whole. Being the sole bread winner in some families is tough on some men. Sharing the work with their partner, and rearing of the kids brings people together. Some Northern European countries have had gender neutral parental leave for years now. This has a long-term, positive effect on both parents, sharing the load and an added bonus of being good for the woman’s career, which altogether is good for the families and therefore for the society and good for men.

    There’s a lot of press about society’s unfair and unrealistic expectations on women but men have to jump through their own hoops too. Men like women should be free to be themselves. Through feminism, we can bring down gender stereotypes and free both men and women from expectations of what it means to be a man or a woman. Feminism, true feminism, enables men and women to relate to each other as people, rather than trying to put each other in suffocating gender-shaped boxes.
    Banjo
    16th Mar 2019
    10:46am
    Excellent post KIAH. If only more men realised good feminism is not against them but working for them. Yes, we do have biological differences as male and female but should not be different in any other way.

    It's time for "macho" man to disappear and the old fashioned ideas put to rest. Teach sons to be good fathers, good husbands and wives to recognise their worth.


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