The Finkel Report could save the planet, but how much will it cost you?

The Finkel Report may finally end the bitter climate debate.

The Finkel Report may finally end the bitter climate debate

A major review of Australia’s energy sector by chief scientist Dr Alan Finkel has been underway for some time, with the final report due for release today.

It is believed that Dr Alan Finkel, the scientist heading up the investigation alongside four energy experts, will recommend a new clean energy target that will bring Australia a step closer to adopting renewable energy as a viable resource and hopefully end the divide on climate policy.

Along with his primary recommendation of adopting a new clean energy target, Dr Finkel wants to promote increased use of gas and focus on energy storage systems.

Currently, electricity production is our biggest source of pollution. Around 87 per cent of Australia’s electricity is produced using fossil fuels. Brown and black coal make up 77 per cent, 10 per cent comes from gas and the remaining 13 per cent is derived from renewables.

Our reliance on fossil fuels needs to fall if we are to avoid catastrophic climate change.

So, what’s the plan?
Dr Alan Finkel's plan for the future of the National Electricity Market involves setting a clean energy target that is enforced by ‘carrot and stick’ incentives for energy providers.

In other words, rules that encourage energy sellers to adhere to low-emissions targets or to sell power derived from low emissions technology, such as gas or renewables.

Dr Finkel’s plan doesn’t rule out coal either, it just needs to be coupled with carbon capture which, at the moment, is expensive and may not come into effect in the near future. Any cost associated with carbon capture will likely to be passed onto consumers.

The report recommends setting a benchmark of 700kg of carbon dioxide (CO2) per megawatt hour of electricity. So, if a generator produces less than 700kg of CO2 per unit, it will receive a credit which can be sold on to energy retailers.

The benchmark is low and will effectively punish coal-based power plants, as credits will go to the most environmentally friendly power stations, such as those that use efficient gas turbines, which emit around 400kg per megawatt and renewables which produce no carbon.

This means energy retailers will be provided with an incentive to purchase clean energy for resale to consumers, thus forcing polluting coal plants out of the market.

Assuming, of course, that the Government accepts the recommendation.

Another recommendation is an emissions intensity scheme (EIS), which would target power stations by setting limits on the volume of greenhouse gases they emit. If the power stations go over the limit, they then have to buy credits from stations with lower emissions. In other words, generators that use coal will have to pay to support renewable generators.

This recommendation seems to be the one favoured by government bodies and organisations such as the Climate Change Authority and Australian Energy Market Commission.

In fact, even most electricity providers support this idea. All that is required is for everyone to agree on a strict low emissions target. Hopefully, Dr Finkel has given us that target – or at least a benchmark to encourage compromise.

But how much will this cost you?
Basically, your electricity bill consists of three charges: wholesale and retail prices (based on supply and demand), infrastructure costs (poles and wires) and environmental policies. Infrastructure makes up the biggest cost in your bill with environmental policies being the smallest component.

Effectively, Australians are charged twice for power: the first time when the retailer buys it from the wholesaler and the second when it’s resold by the retailer. So if the cost of power being bought from the wholesaler is lower, in theory, that reduced cost would be passed on to you. But energy retailers can charge whatever they like.

The Government has recently asked the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) to investigate high power prices, so if anyone can reduce our power bills, it’s the ACCC.

Read more at www.abc.net.au

What do you think of Dr Finkel’s idea? Would you be prepared to pay a little more for clean energy? Or do you think that the cost of clean energy should be borne by the providers?

RELATED ARTICLES





    COMMENTS

    To make a comment, please register or login
    MICK
    9th Jun 2017
    10:21am
    Australians were FULLY compensated when the Carbon Tax was brought in. The tax free threshhold went from $5000 to $18000 amongst other things so any 'costs' have already been factored in. Funny how this fact is never mentioned in this sort of debate.

    The reality of the Carbon Tax was that IT WAS WORKING and after Abbott and his cronies killed the Carbon Tax electricity prices rose as if on steroids. So much for "you have high electricity prices because of the Carbon Tax". A lie. One of many.

    We need some honest journalism in this country rather than the routine BS which seems to be doing the rounds.
    Anonymous
    9th Jun 2017
    11:48am
    MICK, I agree with your last paragraph.

    You claim that the carbon tax was working. Did the climate change during that period? Did the temperatures drop? If collecting money from so-called polluters was going to fix global warming (the name has been changed to climate change) why was it felt necessary to compensate people who were not polluting? It was simply a vote grabbing merry-go-round where big business paid the government a tax which was immediately passed back to the voters as compensation for the inevitable cost rise by the companies paying the tax.

    I believe in climate change but I don't agree that what we are experiencing is completely the fault of mankind. Nor do I believe that paying money from rich countries to poorer countries will do anything to stop the changes to our climate. When scientists have gone back over millennia and analysed the rocks they have discovered that there were severe climate changes over the history of our planet. There was global warming prior to the Industrial Revolution as there have been ice ages.
    Theo1943
    9th Jun 2017
    12:50pm
    Yes, we've definitely had global warming since the ice age.

    Regardless of whether the majority of current warming is due to us or the planet's cycle surely it is in our interest to make as small an impact on the planet as possible. When my dad was born there were 107 billion people on earth, when he died last year there were 7.4 billion. That surely has to have made an impact on the planet.
    MICK
    9th Jun 2017
    2:45pm
    Gentlemen, please look at the graph on this link, half way down the page and tell me what happened after about 1950 as well as WHERE in the past half a mullion years anything even close to this has occurred:

    https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

    I could give you a dozen reasons and simply stating the opposite without proof is not acceptable. We have indeed had climate change but the difference this time around is we have 7 billion and growing people on our planet each contributing CO2. It's not rocket science and repeating coal propaganda will not change the facts or the results.
    Anonymous
    9th Jun 2017
    3:22pm
    MICK, please give us a dozen reasons, with proof, so we can evaluate them. Telling us that you could give a dozen reasons is not good enough as I could also state that I can give you two dozen reasons. My two dozen in this way is as useless as your dozen.
    MICK
    9th Jun 2017
    9:21pm
    Happy to give you a dozen. If I may play the devil's advocate can you give me half a dozen reasons to prove your view that there is no climate change? Most people who preach this make statements as a given and I find it terribly unfair that the evidence is all around us and the sceptics and coal representatives never offer any proof that the climate is not changing.
    My first card is the NASA graph. There's more but I need some proof that your side has 'evidence' and then I'll play. Your information eagerly awaited.
    Misty
    10th Jun 2017
    12:46am
    Old Man you cannot have all these factories and power stations spewing out their toxic waste and what about all the aircraft, not to mention the cars etc, all of this must be having some effect in the atmosphere as well as our environment so it stands to reason if you add the normal over the centuries climate change to what man is doing as well it must surely speed up the process and make it so much worse.
    P$cript
    12th Jun 2017
    1:50pm
    OM the carbon tax was working as it should by reducing the CO2 output as well as other pollutants from burning coal such as Mercury.
    Did the climate change during that period? Did the temperatures drop? Well no it wouldn't as the existing levels will take 100years for what is generated today to be removed. That is why we have stop as soon as possible adding to the existing CO2 levels.

    Instead of asking others to explain, why not do your own research and stop with the silly comments which are easily disproved by science.

    Your just looking like a LNP troll!
    Ktee
    9th Jun 2017
    11:26am
    The physics relating to the cost of electrical power is straight forward.
    We only produce a and use a given amount of electrical power.
    However this amount of energy is produced the cost per unit is directly proportional to the number of people employed directly or indirectly in producing that energy.

    Only people cost money, not wind, coal, gas, sun, tide, hydro, or uranium.

    The current technology both renewable and legacy are being used in duplication.

    This employs more people and therefore the cost per unit goes up.

    It is noble to be green but current technology is unable to reduce emissions whilst meeting the power grid load requirements.

    It is a catch 22 situation.

    Our economists are asking for technological miracles based on assumed nonexistent science.

    The leaks on Finkel's reort suggests he has grasped the fundamentals. There is still not enough information to say if Finkel has a plan to lead the ideologists, iditotologists, vested entities and the angrily ignorant out this catch 22 situation before electrical power is consigned to the history books.
    MICK
    9th Jun 2017
    2:50pm
    The predictions of the future cost of energy is fantastic. They already have thin film being developed and in the near future expect you entire roof to be a solar collector, meaning that you will have more than you can ever hope to use.
    Battery storage is already here but more development and mass production will see prices of those fall as well.
    We have a very bright future ahead of us if we can resist the stranglehold coal buying politicians to maintain the monopoly it had had for so long.

    9th Jun 2017
    11:36am
    Finkel also recommended that the moratoriums on gas exploration be lifted. One of the factors in the rising cost of electricity is the cost of gas. It's the old story of supply and demand as we have a shortage of gas and exploration has been stopped because of the fear that politicians might lose their seats because of the outcry from a vocal minority.
    Rae
    9th Jun 2017
    2:16pm
    We should buy our gas in Japan and ship it back home. It could possibly be cheaper that way.
    MICK
    9th Jun 2017
    2:52pm
    I have not seen the report but I suggest 'gas' means LNG, not fracking. There is a difference and we will need a short term buffer as well as backup for prolonged no sun days I might think. Gas would certainly have no future in base load.
    Misty
    10th Jun 2017
    12:49am
    I heard it was cheaper to send gas to California then send it from Darwin to Sydney.
    MICK
    10th Jun 2017
    8:09am
    That is because the multinationals are not paying tax on OUR gas. The Howard government set most of this up as it allowed our world class LNG assets to be sold to foreigners. So why does the current coalition government allow this to happen?
    P$cript
    12th Jun 2017
    1:55pm
    As soon to be the largest exporter in the world there is no shortage. What is needed is a tariff applied to exported gas to force more to be available for us.
    floss
    9th Jun 2017
    11:57am
    The plan has to fail as the cost of gas for our base load power station is much to high . Thanks to our stupid bloody Government OUR gas is in the hands of foreign owned companies.You can have as many solar panels as you like but you have to have sufficient base load which has to be gas.This Government has no idea what is really required as long as the big end of town make a rip off profit.
    Rae
    9th Jun 2017
    2:19pm
    Isn't it a pity Whitlam wasn't allowed the dodgy $4 billion loan to nationalise all the mines and gas fields and build the gas pipe line?

    Then again the subsequent bankers in government would have probably sold them off anyway.

    No one can afford to manufacture in Australia with these prices and foreign owned electricity providers and retailers. The risks of a blow out in prices is too high.
    MICK
    9th Jun 2017
    2:55pm
    Yeah...Gorgon was my superannuation investment. Sold out by little Johnny Howard who let the third largest LNG deposit on the planet be flogged to foreigners.
    The government could force multinationals to reserve our needs or even ask them to pay tax. Clearly too gutless and too conflicted to do either. If they even tried it the right wing (big business owned media) would shout down any such attempt. We need bipartisan support to make this work....and pigs will fly.
    Rae
    9th Jun 2017
    3:48pm
    Yes MICK. I chose Origin and there wasn't even a dividend payment this year.
    MICK
    9th Jun 2017
    9:23pm
    Personally I avoid companies involved in pain and destruction. Gambling, alcohol, coal, etc. might give a good financial return but ethically I cannot invest in them.
    pedro the swift
    9th Jun 2017
    12:01pm
    Something that has NEVER been made clear is how do they measure the carbon produced by any process. I see that 700kg of carbon per MW is quoted but who does the measuring and checking. I have worked on gas analysis systems and they aren't all that accurate.s the gov. going to set CO2 levels for each industry or are they going to use real time measurement?
    Rae
    9th Jun 2017
    2:22pm
    It will be another one of those "deemed" figures from imagination I expect. Possibly based on a desired number popping up somewhere.

    When have any of the figures been accurate?
    MICK
    9th Jun 2017
    2:56pm
    Probably by the mass of the ingredients used. Not too difficult pedro. Any high school chemistry kid could do it.
    Rod63
    9th Jun 2017
    12:41pm
    "The Finkel Report could save the planet, but how much will it cost you?"

    If we DON'T save the planet, how much will it cost us?
    MICK
    9th Jun 2017
    2:58pm
    Correct. Sadly PEOPLE look at the cost to their pocket first and the environment last. Any wonder some of the terrible things which are destroying our planet are allowed to go on as business as usual.
    Jenny
    9th Jun 2017
    3:05pm
    Exactly. What does it matter how much we have to pay for power when the alternative is destroying our planet? Do we have the right to think only of our own bottom line when the future of life as we know it is at stake? It really leaves me devoid of any optimism for the future when I hear this point of view put forward.
    jackyd
    9th Jun 2017
    4:39pm
    How on earth are 25 million Australians going to save the planet let alone change the climate?
    The reality dosen't match the alarmist over reaction!
    Oh that's right, we have to be a good global citizen and lead by example...by paying the most expensive energy cost in Western World with the only result being that feel good sensitivity while forgoing our global competitiveness!
    MICK
    9th Jun 2017
    9:25pm
    Your argument may essentially be correct but is morally flawed jackyd. Also remember that you taught your children by example and id Australia ignores the problem with that sort of argument other countries will also ignore doing something. It is an invalid argument but one the coal industry uses all the time.
    Rod63
    9th Jun 2017
    9:30pm
    jackyd - when I say "we" I mean the human race, not just Australians, of course.

    But we must do our bit.
    Paicey58
    9th Jun 2017
    12:50pm
    As soon as electricity storage batteries become reasonably priced I will be fitting them to my current solar panel system. They are currently $1000 each and will hold 1 kilowatt. I need ten units to make me self sufficient and may only have to draw off the grid every now and then after they are installed.
    My supplier says that as soon as they reach $500 each they will be viable to use and that that time is rapidly approaching.
    MICK
    9th Jun 2017
    2:59pm
    1 Kw? I think you have this wrong Paicey.
    Paicey58
    9th Jun 2017
    7:19pm
    Maybe I have to letters wrong is it kWh ?
    I use currently 26 units (roughly) every 24 hours.
    My system produces 25 to 30 units each day .
    I use up to 15 units during the daytime and give back 11 units to the electricity company and get a tiny 7 cents per unit but have to import 10 units each night to run everything at 24 cents per unit.
    These batteries will store 1 unit each which I produce and store for night time use. I will need 10 baterries to make that happen. No more electricity company needed!!! Except on the very few occasions.
    floss
    9th Jun 2017
    1:39pm
    We have a some 200 years worth of offshore gas in Australia but it has been given away.I bet this report will be used as a excuse to carry out fracking in farming areas , where water is more important than gas . Privation was the start and the cause of all our problems what a mess this Government has got us into and there is really no short term fix.
    MICK
    9th Jun 2017
    3:01pm
    Fracking is not on. Putting food production at risk is a no brainer, not that conflicted politicians will see it that way. You can'r eat gas...and you die if you do not eat.
    KB
    9th Jun 2017
    2:11pm
    It will cost us more if we do not save the planet from our own self destruction. It is up to to people to use resources wisely and for energy companies to provide green energy
    MICK
    9th Jun 2017
    3:02pm
    Correct...but the current bunch of crooked politicians will be retired and gone by the time people start waving their arms and crying 'who did this to us'.
    jackyd
    9th Jun 2017
    2:21pm
    "Catastrophic climate change "
    Strange that in this hysterical challenge that a number of issues fail to get a mention.
    Human population growth is totally out of control and is the absolute catalyst to human pollution and with that throw in deforestation then the recipe of environmental decline is all too obvious.
    With technology where are the free energy devices that have been bought out and buried and dare I say in some circumstances killed off?
    Back yard engineering developments such as the engine that runs on water and magnetic generation.
    Then of course this climate change hoax we are collectively falling for, a scheme run by the discredited UN as the middle man collecting a percentage for it's own sustainable existence rather than the earths.
    The local political direction on this topic is to the point of gut wrenching where the horse has bolted without any reality of systematic transition if there is one.
    Australia has gone crazy!
    MICK
    9th Jun 2017
    3:05pm
    POPULATION is indeed the most important issue nobody is allowed to talk about. Missing in the media (why?) and politicians refuse to engage in such a discussion as well (why?). They all know....but the way the current system works is by population increase so nobody will rock that boat until we all eventually fall out of it. Sounds like a giant Ponzi scheme run by governments to me.
    Rod63
    9th Jun 2017
    9:32pm
    "Then of course this climate change hoax we are collectively falling for, a scheme run by the discredited UN"

    This is untrue. It is NOT a hoax, it's not a "scheme" run by the UN and the UN is not discredited.
    jackyd
    10th Jun 2017
    1:42am
    Sorry to say Rod but you have fallen for the hoax but by all means have it your way and I'll see it mine.
    MICK
    10th Jun 2017
    8:05am
    No jackyd. You have not bothered to do the research. Climate change is very real and even (coal) conflicted governments around the world are having to face up to the FACTS, something you have yet to do.
    Andy
    9th Jun 2017
    2:41pm
    again another great waist of money, there is no global warming as such, so him and his mates are way off base to start with, time this crap stopped.
    MICK
    9th Jun 2017
    3:06pm
    Spoken like a true dinosaur. Ignorance is indeed bliss.
    Misty
    10th Jun 2017
    12:55am
    Get your head out of the sand Andy and wake up to the facts, don't you watch the news or weather reports, extreme weather is happening all around the globe and much more frquently and man is mostly to blame.
    Misty
    10th Jun 2017
    12:55am
    Get your head out of the sand Andy and wake up to the facts, don't you watch the news or weather reports, extreme weather is happening all around the globe and much more frquently and man is mostly to blame.
    ex PS
    10th Jun 2017
    8:47am
    Exactly, time for the crap to stop, time for people who have had no training and education in the field to stop making uneducated statements and trying to pass them off as fact. It amazes me that people are so willing to ignore the facts provided by leaders in the field just because they are too scared to admit the truth.
    If the scientists involved are only half right the world is in serious trouble, yet we constantly have the luney flat earthists arguing over minute details of an extensive scientific theory and trying to put them forward as valid proof that everybody else is wrong and they are right.If you don't want to be involved in fixing the problem, just get out of the way and let those who have some idea about them do their best.
    At the end of the day given a choice between the collective advice from the scientific community and people like Andrew Bolt and his sycophants, I think I will go with the trained professionals.
    MICK
    10th Jun 2017
    4:35pm
    Well written ex PS.

    Sadly people prefer to accept lies from big business rather than listen to scientists who are experts and get it right nearly all of the time. With super computers these days getting better every day the modelling is seldom wrong. And on the rare occasion when it is the sceptics try to discount the other 99% which is correct.
    Welcome to the human race and why we may well end up as an extinct species. Who knows.....maybe we are in the evolution cycle and a silicone based intelligence will follow us. The human race certainly has very little of that....intelligence that is.
    floss
    9th Jun 2017
    3:58pm
    Population is the problem even in Australia.
    Triss
    9th Jun 2017
    4:18pm
    You're right, Floss. One of my neighbours a few years ago had 4 children, 14 grandchildren and 8 great grandchildren. 26 people out of 2.
    Eddy
    9th Jun 2017
    9:42pm
    Sorry Triss, methinks your maths are a little out. In your example, 26 people out of 2 only works with rampant incest. I am too lazy to work out the actual ratio but I suspect it is closer to 26 persons out of about 20.
    MICK
    10th Jun 2017
    8:03am
    POPULATION is probably the key issue in the whole argument but is always avoided by the media. The topic is taboo when it should be front page news and we are being conned.
    Boof
    9th Jun 2017
    4:05pm
    How about the Govt put enough solar panels on all Australian buildings & surrounds to keep each household operating indepenantly. ( I say The Govt. because renters & pensioners can't put them up). Do away with all the power stations. Have a small nuclear power station near each Capitol City for emergency power. Too easy. The nuke facility at Lucas Heights, Menai, has been operating since Adam was a boy, without a hitch.
    MICK
    9th Jun 2017
    9:27pm
    We need battery storage before renewables will work.
    musicveg
    11th Jun 2017
    10:09pm
    They won't do that because their business interests are in coal, oil and gas.
    AutumnOz
    9th Jun 2017
    4:26pm
    A great saving could be made in the amount of electricity used in cities like Sydney and Melbourne merely by fully lighting only the ground and top floors of all those high buildings.

    Out in the rural areas we don't even have street lights except for some intersections but you can travel for 100 kms without seeing any street lights. Odd isn't it?

    We also need to do something about our population which is out of control. Australia has only the capacity to support 18 million people with food and water, we currently have 25 or 26 million and we are already short of water.

    That may be off topic but it is part and parcel of the sustainable Australia we need to keep healthy for future generations. Not just talking about generating electricity from various sources.

    Maybe someone will shortly re-discover the recipe for the old fashioned Greek Fire which was used wipe out enemy ships a couple of millenia ago.
    Anonymous
    9th Jun 2017
    7:42pm
    what a lot of hogwash, not seeing a streetlight for 100 kms, why light up our roads when there are no villages, cities etc for 200 to 300 km apart, love to know who is short of water, we got desal plants in every state, yet not one has been needed, in victoria they ordered water of one of them, it is runing back into the sea they are taking it from while using electricity mostly produced by coal using plants and charging the customers, read taxpayers, more than 400 dollars a year for that privilege, has it ever occurred to you and mickey mouse that there won't be enough electricity by relying on the sun and wind alone, even with batteries, to blame eartquakes, storms etc on climate change, pity you they occurred before and with more intensity and loss of life than those who occur in the last 30 to 70 years, just check the past, as for the recipe of the greek fire, obliviously you still believe in snow white and the seven dwarfs, sorry I am not allowed to call them by that name, snow white and the seven under developt persons, America did the right thing by rejecting to paying big dollars to the so called 3rd world nations, namely china, india etc the same ones who are killing the worlds economies by undercutting the wages of our soceity, yet are allowed to use our coal to produce electricity and receiving top money from our country to do so, mickey mouse I might be a dinosaur but I can see and smell a foul, the like of you 100 yards away, I put solar panels on my roof, silly me, I thought it would help the state with a cheaper rate of electricity instead I now receive a bill of more than 25 cents for putting electricity into the system which is sold to my neighbours for 35 cents, with other words I pay 60 cents for having panels on my roof which has cost me more then 2000 dollars to put them there and as for floss and triss, how many kids did you have and as for mickey mouse to tell we, the people look at the cost to their pockets first and the environment last, when did he think of that when he/she was flying, as he/she has boasted so many times in these columns, around the world leaving a trail of carbon emissions, co2 behind, of course being mickey mouse makes it is allright but those crooked politicians, oh how he/she would love to be part of them
    Rod63
    9th Jun 2017
    9:34pm
    ....................................

    There you go heemskerk99 - use some of mine.
    AutumnOz
    10th Jun 2017
    7:51am
    heemskerk99, apparently you live in a city or suburb of one of our states. I have no idea what you mean by hogwash.
    Do your homework and check up on the state of the Darling and Paroo Rivers (NSW), the Todd (NT),the water situation in South Australia and Western Australia (States).
    You probably do not know that country people obtain water from rain which falls (infrequently) onto their roofs and then is gathered via the guttering into storage tanks for household use. Solar panels on the roof are not an option for these people. when the electricity fails everyone has a generator and uses that to keep the refrigerator going until the power is restored - sometimes days later.
    Sydney is Australia's largest city and within 80kms of Sydney many people are not connected to town water or sewage although they are connected to the electricity grid. They are also limited with mobile phone coverage and will probably have to rely on satellite broadband via the NBN. Pathetic isn't it?
    As to running out of water, the cities are fine with all the dams available to keep them supplied with water much of it is then wasted by washing concrete paths instead of sweeping them which is a more efficient cleaning method. Many years ago I was picking my daughter up from Uni in Sydney when I saw just how much of our precious water was running away after such usage.
    The capital cities are NOT all of Australia and the rest of Australia is forgotten by those who live in cities.
    ex PS
    10th Jun 2017
    3:53pm
    h99, you stuffed up and got a bad deal on Solar, your fault as you didn't do due diligence and get the best deal available. Some of us on the other hand did the research bought in at the right time and are now making money out of Solar Power.
    I would be willing to bet that most people who have invested in Solar Power in a domestic sense are better off.
    floss
    9th Jun 2017
    6:29pm
    Yes we have probable passed the right population number for Australia ,one of our most famous rivers the Darling has been dry on and off for some time.Must agree with the last two comments.
    Anonymous
    9th Jun 2017
    7:50pm
    just get of you a.. and find out why that river is struggling, just ask your greeny politicians for an honest answer, put it in these columns and you will see the truth! that is if they will answer your question. ever heard of the rice farming?
    AutumnOz
    10th Jun 2017
    7:54am
    Yes Floss, the Darling has a long history of being dry for months on end, this has been happening for as long as white people have recorded its history. It is a very beautiful river when it is running almost to the top of the banks.
    AutumnOz
    10th Jun 2017
    7:57am
    heemskerk99, it is not so much the rice farming that has wrecked the inland rivers but also water requirements for mining and water rights being reduced for farmers and some rights sold to foreign interests.
    MICK
    10th Jun 2017
    7:59am
    The "truth" is something you have no stomach for heemsjerk. All you can do is post lies and political deceit. Never facts.
    Misty
    10th Jun 2017
    12:41am
    Electricity went up after the Carbon Tax was gotten rid of not down as the Coalition insist on saying, even heard it said today.
    MICK
    10th Jun 2017
    8:01am
    You'll never hear that from both the media AND this current wretched government. That was one of the election lies run so that coal donations would be guaranteed.
    The question is WHY does the media remain silent? I mean 'he lied', something Julia Gillard was not permitted to do.
    Misty
    10th Jun 2017
    12:41am
    Electricity went up after the Carbon Tax was gotten rid of not down as the Coalition insist on saying, even heard it said today.
    MICK
    10th Jun 2017
    1:48pm
    "You have high electricity priced because of the Carbon Tax"? - Greg Hunt.
    This even continued after the election with the little badger posting a broad smile on his face....BECAUSE THE MEDIA WAS RUNNING THE LIE and he could say what he wanted without fear of being held to account.
    WE NEED MEDIA LAWS IN OUR COUNTRY as what we get is mostly propaganda and lies dressed up as facts.
    Liverpool Anne
    10th Jun 2017
    12:04pm
    We have always had global warming over the thousands of years. The only difference is there are now more than 3 billion persons on this planet breathing in oxygen and exhaling carbon dioxide. Plus the industrial age doe not help either. As we cannot stem the rising population the only thing to do is restrict industrial carbon as much as we can
    MICK
    10th Jun 2017
    1:53pm
    Agreed....but never before have we had a population of 7 billion and growing. If you believe what you write then please have a look at the CO2 graph half way down the page on the following link:

    https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

    Can you please explain what happened around 1950 and why the CO2 level in half a million years has not even come close to what we are seeing today? And after that maybe address what happens when our population hits 14 billion?

    After all of the above maybe start looking around the planet and discussing all of the obvious signs of climate change starting with our own Great Barrier Reef.

    I don't know where some people get the belief you hold as it defies any logic.
    floss
    10th Jun 2017
    12:05pm
    Autumn oz perhaps we should sent Heemskerk 99 out west to have a look at real Australians at work ,before real Australians disappear.
    AutumnOz
    10th Jun 2017
    12:34pm
    Good idea floss, it is a shame that there is so little work out west, even the traditional jobs seem to have been replaced by machinery or helicopters.
    Life is certainly not the same as it was 40 or 50 years ago, progress is good but not when jobs are missing for the young people and they have to go to the cities to look for work.
    floss
    10th Jun 2017
    2:14pm
    Right again Autumn Oz using a chopper cut my work time down from 2 weeks to 1 day. Another 10 year drought and this country is in big trouble. Forced population growth is bloody stupid [ immigration].
    AutumnOz
    10th Jun 2017
    6:40pm
    You are right, the forced population growth is not helping the problems Australia faces. All the immigrants are going to the cities and few know there is an inland Australia, most of them do not find work so the country is supporting an increasing number of people and the only solution mooted by government seems to be taking the assets of old age pensioners.
    As for a drought it will happen again, and again, nothing is being done to drought proof Australia and there has been talk of tapping into the underground water supply. That would be a stupid move as most of the bore water is undrinkable for humans until it moves a fair distance from the bore head.
    We were almost wiped out by the last long drought, we did survive, but it was a struggle.
    musicveg
    11th Jun 2017
    10:23pm
    Renewable energy is the cheapest source of electricity and it is being pushed down by the coal, oil and gas industry, effectively making our electricity more expensive. We are all being duped.
    JoJozep
    12th Jun 2017
    10:13am
    Climate change is real. Pollution today is real. But what causes climate change over the centuries? How come we had hot climates followed by ice ages in the past when there was low pollution? Today's pollution does contribute to climate change but to a small degree. In fact, we are due for another ice age, so some global warming might be welcome.

    These questions seem to be in conflict. On the one hand, we see relatively small climate change occurring because of pollution, on the other hand, much bigger climate changes over the millennia occurred in the past when there was little or no pollution.

    What then would cause the earth's climate change on a periodical basis and independent of man's presence? It's simple. The earth wobbles! More precisely, the earth's axis tilts by some 27 degrees from vertical when it completes its orbit around the sun. This wobble takes about 27,000 years for the earth to deflect and return to normal. In the meantime, different parts of the earth are exposed more directly to the sun as the polar axis shift. this causes places near the equator to heat up and places near the poles to cool down. When however the poles tilt (move closer to the sun), ice melts as they heat up, and the equator moving away, cools.

    This cycle is how the earth moves around the sun and nothing we can do will change it. At the same time, I don't advocate increasing pollution, as I like to breathe fresh air. Remember also, all gases we produce stay around our earth forever, as gravity will prevent the gases escaping into space.
    AutumnOz
    12th Jun 2017
    1:13pm
    Well said and presented for easy reading JoJozep.
    There have been times in the past when the earth has been hit by one, or perhaps more, asteroid(s) and knocked off its normal orbit, we have proof of this as the 360 day year was replaced by the 365 day year within historical times (BCE not within the current era), there is even an Egyptian papyrus extant describing the events when they happened.
    Lookfar
    16th Jun 2017
    2:48pm
    Yes Joe, it is tempting to look at the past but, one needs to look closely, - when the 'wobbles etc' have happened, the earth has heated up, which has then caused the carbon dioxide level to rise, but this time there is if anything dscreased heating from 'wobbles', This time the carbon dioxide is rising first, and almost completely by the actions of humankind, including land clearing, and that is what is doing the 'forcing'. It is interesting that the rabid right wing of the Liberal party is so hostile to any thought that humanity is responsible so therefore we should take that responsibility, yet we all know of the consequences of pooing in one's own nest.
    Fortunately they represent a very small section of the population of Australia, as idicated by the Lowy report, with 81% of the surveyed group wanting more Renewables. " The Lowy Institute has found 81 per cent of Australians want governments to focus on clean energy sources, and just 17 per cent want governments to focus on coal and gas. The findings of the 2017 poll that coincided with the release of the Finkel Review of the energy market reinforce the strong preference for renewable energy over fossil fuels, a fact that Coalition party backbenchers are yet to acknowledge or concede."
    - The Fossil backbenchers want the fossil fuels - (My joke)
    https://www.solar.org.au/industry-news/poll-eight-ten-want-clean-energy/