11th Dec 2018
Academic calls for migration boost to fund elderly
Author: Olga Galacho
Call for more migrants

Immigration needs to be ramped up by more than 20 per cent to 280,000 new arrivals each year to reduce the burden of ageing Australians on public services, a new economic report says.

At Monday’s Committee for Economic Development of Australia (CEDA) forum, authors of the report – Connecting people with progress: securing future economic development – warned that critical services would be hampered if governments did not overhaul their approach to policymaking.

One of the report’s authors, (who was not present at the forum) Australian National University demographer Liz Allen, wrote that the nation’s biggest challenge stemmed from the ageing population.

“These include intergenerational inequalities, further confounded by pre-existing socioeconomic inequalities, relating to housing and population distribution,” Dr Allen reported.

Another of the report’s authors, PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) partner James van Smeerdijk, estimated that an additional $24 billion in capital costs and $12.8 billion a year in operating costs would be needed by 2025 to meet the projected gaps in aged-care services and hospital beds, due to the ageing population.

“By 2040, this could reach $57.3 billion in additional capital costs and $28.9 billion per annum in operating costs for the same categories,” he said.

Dr Allen wrote that while population ageing was not a new phenomenon, Australia had not experienced the current magnitude and its likely consequences before.

“The scale and future prospects of structural population ageing are the likes of which Australia has never seen, and to that end, Australia is faced with a demographic crossroad,” she said.

Dr Allen also argued that the pressures posed by a proportionately shrinking workforce could worsen intergenerational inequality. In order to avoid such a scenario, she said it was necessary to boost immigration from current levels of around 220,000 a year to 280,000.

Latest figures, however, show that immigration numbers have fallen below 190,000 a year.

“Balancing immigration intake to meet the needs of the Australian economy is an essential element for advancing population wellbeing.

“Of three (Australian Bureau of Statistics) immigration scenarios examined, net overseas immigration (NOM) of 280,000 people per year provides the most benefit in moderating old-age dependency.

“NOM has averaged under 220,000 annually over the period 2004–05 to 2016–17.

“Population ageing places fiscal pressures on the economy as the proportion of older people typically not in the labour force and not contributing personal income tax (aged 65 years and over) increases proportionally to the working-age population (15 years and over).

“Immigration has the potential to reduce intergenerational inequality by easing pressures on the workforce.

“Figure B (above) presents a crude but indicative demonstration of the impact of different net overseas migration intake levels on the old-age dependency ratio.

“Immigration is shown to minimise potential adverse consequences of an ageing population by moderating the proportion of older people relative to the working-age population.”

Meanwhile, Mr van Smeerdijk said the PwC report showed that the scale of community needs in future would be considerable and “some of the projected gaps in social infrastructure seemed unattainable from a fiscal and feasibility perspective”.

“There will be critical workforce shortages with potential gaps of approximately 85,000 nurses by 2025 and 180,000 aged-care workers in 2025, increasing to 400,000 more aged care workers needed by 2040.

“Even if logistically possible, simply scaling up and doing more of the same in the future will mean a very costly health system, and one increasingly seen as no longer fit for purpose.

“It does not fully meet the needs and preferences of people, their families and communities today, let alone in the future,” he said.

Do you believe there are solutions other than increasing migration in order for the demands of older Australians on the economy to be met?

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    COMMENTS

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    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th Dec 2018
    9:01am
    First, abolish the stupid assets test which punishes people for saving for retirement and start encouraging and rewarding people for being independent in retirement instead of slaughtering them for buying a modest home and investing.

    Secondly, immigration might help if we stop importing bludgers and welfare cheats. It's been evidenced that Centrelink is supporting immigrants with multiple wives and engaging in child-swapping to claim benefits. Immigration is fine if the immigrant works and pays taxes. Otherwise it's a negative. And although it's been denied, I question the alleged handouts to new arrivals. I met an immigrant who claimed he and every one of his 4 working-age children had been given a car, a year's wages, and over $100,000 in cash to come here, and he was given an extra $40,000 for each minor child. True or not, he was certainly living in the lap of luxury 2 years after arrival and neither he nor his wife or any of the 4 working age kids had done a single day's work in Australia. Another I met recently had spent 8 years at university and was returning home to avoid paying her HECS debt. She was a 'refugee' who fled from terror, and she was happily going back armed with the multiple degrees the Australian public paid for.

    Sure, lets have immigration - and lets welcome immigrants with open arms - but ONLY if they come to work and pay taxes. Or if they come on compassionate grounds, let those who can afford to support them do so - not the average battling taxpayer. It's not a matter of being uncharitable. It's about self-preservation. And we can't help anyone if we plunge our own society into poverty and chaos. Charity begins at home.
    Knows-a-lot
    11th Dec 2018
    9:56am
    Immigration is killing our larger cities and making them unlivable. The quality of life here in Sydney has seriously declined over the last few decades. Immigration is also causing a lot of socio-cultural problems. We need to stop all immigration, and encourage some groups to leave.
    fred
    11th Dec 2018
    10:06am
    totally agree with OGR and Knows a lot , The politicians are telling you bullshit Wake up immigration costs billions of dollars in welfare not to mention billions on schools , hospitals and roads and law enforcement with security issues
    I can remember when
    11th Dec 2018
    10:56am
    "I met an immigrant who claimed he and every one of his 4 working-age children had been given a car, a year's wages, and over $100,000 in cash to come here, and he was given an extra $40,000 for each minor child." 

    Wow some people make up incredible rubbish and some people lap it up. No Government department pays people $100k to come here or gives them cars or pays $40k for extra kids. Absolute nonsense. Prey tell which Government department does this and under which section of which act.

    Unbelievable what farcical stories get circulated.
    casey
    11th Dec 2018
    11:49am
    When I emigrated from the UK in the sixties I was sponsored by the Queensland Government as there was a shortage of skilled tradesmen in Brisbane at the time. As an incentative we were offered a 3 bedroom commision house. I might add in those days the commision houses had no floor or window coverings, so we bought sheets for the windows until we got established.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th Dec 2018
    12:31pm
    'I can remember when'' - I did say it was his claim, but true or not he was living in the lap of luxury after two years here with none of his family working. How, prey tell? I don't know what Government dept. did what under what section of what Act. I only know what he told me and what I saw first hand.
    Noodles
    11th Dec 2018
    2:03pm
    agree with all you have said OGR...we need darn "workers" not "leaners" coming into the country. we have enough on the dole that were born here without importing large groups
    many of whom , in all probability will never work a day in their lives..why would you...our welfare system is so great!!
    Triss
    11th Dec 2018
    2:53pm
    I think you might be wrong, I Can Remember. I seem to remember about three or four years ago that refugees successfully sued, and were granted compensation payments of many thousands, for being detained at Manus (I think) which had poor accommodation, etc.
    Adrianus
    11th Dec 2018
    3:21pm
    Rainey, I met a single mum of 3 who arrived from South America. She was given income of $50,000 pa, free accommodation and free English course at university.
    Retired Knowall
    11th Dec 2018
    5:07pm
    Yes the current system is Broken. There is no disputing the fact that increased immigration is essential for Australia's prosperity, BUT, that is only one side of the equation.
    1 - We need a National audit to determine WHERE the newly arrived are needed and develop a separate Visa to ensure the newly arrived settle where they are needed. (Perhaps for 5 years). No point in allowing them to settle in the Major Cities, they are full.
    2 - Immigrants need to be vetted to ensure they have the Skills required in the location they are assigned and pre-employment agreements signed with the new employers. This should also be part of the Visa requirements.
    It's not hard to do, the Govt. is already talking about a special visa for Farm Workers.
    For home grown unemployed, voluntary work for our many not for profit agencies should be a must, totally voluntary, if you don't want to be of value...lose 20% of the Tax Payers gift.
    I can remember when
    11th Dec 2018
    7:43pm
    Triss a class action resulted in a settlement being paid to 1700 detainees after it was ruled that they had been illegally imprisoned for something like six years, an average of around $30k to $40k. This is vastly different from saying someone was paid $100k and $40k for each child in cash and given cars to come over here.

    How much compensation would you want for being illegally detained for six years?

    But why do a simple search of facts instead of spreading complete rubbish like OGR is?
    marls
    11th Dec 2018
    8:59pm
    only genuinerainy

    spot on
    GeorgeM
    11th Dec 2018
    9:12pm
    Good comments, OGR, except that I can't say I believe the specific examples quoted.

    Very bad idea from the one-eyed stupid researcher Liz Allen whose answer is to increase Immigration without looking at all the effects of such an action - when we have outsourced jobs, shut down industries and already deleted jobs in most vocations.

    Comment from PwC is more relevant - of course we should allow more migration of specific skill shortages as needed - in a strict, targeted way.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    12th Dec 2018
    7:39am
    "How much compensation would you want for being illegally detained for six years?"

    Well, actually, I can remember when, I know someone who wants $30 million for being illegally detained for 18 years, wrongfully separated from family and denied all knowledge of loved ones, denied a choice of career, having two years wages stolen, and being hideously deprived and abused. He's one of an estimated 92,000 who suffered like him in childhood, and whose adult lives were lives of torment as a result of the psychological harm that abuse caused, and not one of them has received a cent. THEY ARE ALL NATIVE BORN SECOND OR MORE GENERATION WHITE AUSTRALIANS - and they were NOT the children of single mothers either. They were STOLEN, after the age of 3, from working class Australian families who wanted and loved them but were in difficult circumstances and needed a little help. Many were the children of illiterate disabled war veterans or their widows - who didn't know, and were never told by the 'welfare' officers who took their children, that they were entitled to pensions.

    About ten years ago, their suffering was partly acknowledged in a not entirely truthful 'National Apology'. and those who were incarcerated in NSW were granted about $1000 a year for medical and legal costs or to fund searches for lost family. After the Royal Commission into Sexual Abuse of children, the law was finally changed to allow them to sue their abusers. I am not aware of a single case yet concluding or any payment being made. But I know several who were denied - for up to 8 decades - even access to information about what occurred. And they were told they were required by law to sue - WITHOUT that information - within 7 years of the crime, while they were still children living in institutions and suffering ongoing abuse!

    Personally, I think our own native born Australians should come first. And I don't trust any of the so-called 'research', because of seen too many known LIES accepted as historical and political fact.

    I didn't state anything as fact. I said it was something I had been told first hand and I said I had no way of knowing if it were true, so your insult is not justified. But if you rely on ''research'', I feel sorry for you, because you are CERTAINLY not getting the true facts about a great many things.

    And as to those detainees, many if not all came here illegally and therefore INVITED imprisonment, and many chose to return to the country they claimed to flee from. I'm not alone in having a lot of questions as to what really transpired - just as I'm not alone in questioning what some immigrants receive as incentives to settle here and how they manage to live so well without working.

    Yes, George. I agree.
    Blossom
    12th Dec 2018
    3:45pm
    Australia has a shortage of water. How are we going to cope with higher population?.
    Houses are being built closer together and our stormwater / sewerage systems can't cope now. Most will want to live in / close to cities putting more strain on those services. THe Govt. will need to increase infastructure, health, education and other essential services as soon as more migrants arrive. We don't have enough now - especially health services.

    I know that some Companies especially Abbatoirs have trouble getting people to work for them. I know of one in SA that advertised for a few weeks. They got almost no applications and a large % were unreliable when employed. A lot of the time they didn't bother to go to work. To operate their business the had to bring in people from overseas on special visas. One of the terms of their employment was that they had to go to a school at night to learn to read and speak English. They helped them find accomodation. Those who had no vehicles the company had a bus they picked workers up and took them home at night.
    Noodles
    13th Dec 2018
    9:54am
    If Shorten gets into government he is going to increase the dole. As many say, "why work when I can get as much for not working plus they get the concession card and lurks and perks that go with it."
    musicveg
    14th Dec 2018
    1:33am
    Newstart has not had a rise for over 20 years Noodles, no wonder crime has risen. 90% of Newstart recipients would love to work if they could get it, so stop with the not working thing already.
    Retired Knowall
    14th Dec 2018
    8:14am
    Why is it we have to import workers?
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    14th Dec 2018
    11:09am
    Partly, Retired Knowall, because we have inadequate training systems to deliver enough workers with the needed skills. Party because our standard of living creates expectations of remuneration and conditions more favourable than some immigrants will tolerate - and greedy employers seek to take advantage of that. Partly because we have a very silly and unreliable method of assessing qualifications.

    In semi-retirement I am working casual in a job I am not formerly qualified for and could NEVER have hoped to secure when seeking full-time employment. I got that job because a very rare type of businessman recognises that demonstrated ability is a more reliable gauge of someone's capacity to benefit his business than fancy pieces of paper and letters after names, and was willing to give me a chance to demonstrate my ability.

    My partner and I struggled through life in shit jobs on crap pay because of denial of education and training, yet we mastered almost every building skill to build two houses and renovate several; we rebuilt a wrecked car; we made furniture that people drooled over; we made clothing that matched that the best tailors produce. I know long-term unemployed people who have transformed businesses from almost bankruptcy to very profitable, installed computerised accounting systems and trained staff to use them; taught people word-processing and desktop publishing - yet they can't get a job because they don't have degrees or even high school leaving certificates. An immigrant can come in and produce all kinds of fudged evidence of qualifications and get special support to find work because they have ''needed skills''.

    These are just some of the issues we've created with a system that relies far too heavily on formal education and training and not nearly enough on EVIDENCE OF ABILITY and that does not provide enough practical avenues for the less advantaged to secure formal education or training. We have improved access to adult education, but we haven't addressed the practical obstacles people face to embracing it, and we haven't addressed the bias among employers and recruitment agencies, nor the psychological and behavioural barriers that are faced by people who find themselves locked out of the opportunities they seek and know they are worthy of. Way too much focus on ''take any job'' and not nearly enough on ''why the hell should they - when there is no incentive or reward and their psyche says they are failures anyway and undeserving of a break''.
    Retired Knowall
    14th Dec 2018
    11:38am
    Yes you have covered a lot of the issues facing the unemployed/under employed, but that is the system and environment we live in. I just watched a doco on working class Americans and the wretched system they are in, I'm sure you know the failings of that system.
    Over there they have a new class of itinerant workers that travel the US in caravans chasing work, getting paid $15/Hr while home schooling their kids. lets hope it never gets to that stage over here.
    musicveg
    14th Dec 2018
    11:19pm
    Retired Knowall, there are already many people living in caravans and substandard housing in Australia, with rents increasing and Newstart so low, people are forced into all sorts of situations that they cannot get out of. If you don't get a good safe sleeping place, good food and encouragement to better yourself, it is pretty hard to get employment.
    Misty
    15th Dec 2018
    12:20am
    Ask the Federal Government why they have to import workers Retired Knowall.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    15th Dec 2018
    7:45am
    I've lived in America, Retired Knowall, and the doco you watched tells only part of the story. I have relatives living there also. They will tell you - as will all those I lived amongst - that America (as a nation) has a ''can do'' attitude, and that creates great opportunity for anyone who genuinely seeks it. The situation there is actually not nearly as bad as in Australia, because they don't have a welfare system designed to keep people down. It's not nearly as easy for the down and out to stay there, but it's a hell of lot easier for them to get up. People who choose to retire with nothing but the universal pension that is offered in the US struggle. Their old age isn't all that comfortable. But those who choose to work and save and take at least some responsibility for themselves are well rewarded.

    My relative has had a huge struggle, but is doing very now. In Australia... no way would he have been able to achieve such success. He hired a Negro who is now among the downtrodden chasing work. He suffered months of business damage and emotional pain before finally sacking a worker who just didn't want to work. Best job in the world. How many employers give you the day off on your birthday and send you flowers, chocolates, and a voucher to take your whole family to dinner in a nice restaurant? How many pay for a day in a beauty salon and massage spa for your wife when she leaves hospital after surgery? How many send every one of your kids a card and small gift on their birthday? But that worker wanted more, and he didn't want to have to work for it.

    On the other hand, I met people who endured horrendous hardship in childhood and got a great education and did incredibly well, simply because the system supports those who want to strive and achieve and are willing to work at it.

    Yes, I'd like Australia to be more like the US, actually - EXCEPT for the medical costs!
    I think we'd have a far better society. Of course there are problems there - big ones. And because of their huge population, there are vastly more suffering extreme hardship. But the streets of Seattle are lined with rough tents because the climate is moderate and the city is generous to the down and out. The job ads are in abundance. The pay is excellent - even at minimum wage. On Venice Beach, the homeless guy living in a bus laughed at us when we suggested there was a job going in a restaurant. ''Those waiters, even with big tips, make a third of my income'' he said. ''People feel sorry for me living in a bus and 'unable to afford a haircut'. You'd be amazed what some pay me just to tell my sob story. I love this life''. The lady outside the store begging for food for her kids - how did she afford that fancy makeup and hairstyle, pray tell? The guy with the sign asking for food for his kids.. he took that donation he just got and went to buy his heroine fix. He hasn't got any kids. My relative has a mate who grew up on the streets with a drug addict mother. He's making $150K a year as a prison guard. No education before age 20. Doing great!

    I'm not suggesting they are all in that category. There are some shocking tales of hardship - as there are in most countries. But proportional to the population... not so many. And the opportunities are far, far better... as is the reward for striving.

    Australia needs a universal age pension, like the US, and a much tougher stance on unemployment, but far more openings for people who want to pull themselves up. We need that American ''can do'' attitude. We need to end the ongoing pity party for those who claim hardship. That's why I am so strenuously opposed to the Labor Party's attack on the self-funded retiree. Because if we keep bashing those who do what's good for the nation and rewarding those who accept dependency, we will have more dependants and less doing what's good for the nation. We need to expand the opportunities, and we need to reward those who embrace them.
    Knows-a-lot
    11th Dec 2018
    9:50am
    Immigration is turning Australia into a third-world country.
    jackie
    11th Dec 2018
    10:55am
    Knows-a-lot....I agree with you. If we must have immigration please be selective on what comes here and they all must have an A grade health check too. Too many exotic diseases are here that never were before.
    casey
    11th Dec 2018
    12:02pm
    Old man, Your statement of 1st year apprentices earning less than someone on benefits isn't quite right. One of my grandsons is a 1st apprentice electrician. With overtime and all the allowances he is paid he earns just over $900-00 a week. Even if he was earning a small wage it would still be worth it in long term. As a 1st year apprentice I brought home
    2 pounds 19 shillings for a 45 hour week and I paid my mum 30 bob for my board.
    KSS
    11th Dec 2018
    1:41pm
    Jackie ALL migrants have to go through a health check and that includes the children of any would be migrant. They are all able to gain entry IF their estimated lifetime claim on Medicare for existing illnesses or conditions is under $40000 at the time of assessment. This would preclude people with say cancer, Parkinson's disease, Cystic fibrosis and HIV for example. Contracting any of these after arrival does not affect their migration status.

    Refugees may have a different set of rules but they also have the same health checks.

    Most of the so called 'exotic diseases' are not brought here by migrants at all, rather by citizens or permanent residents travelling overseas (for holidays or visiting family etc) then returning to Australia.
    Lothario
    11th Dec 2018
    2:22pm
    Labor turned Australia into a 3rd world country with its policies
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    6:44pm
    Lothie, Lothie - the LNP have brought more in of the near-incompatible kind than Labor... stick to reality...
    Jannie
    11th Dec 2018
    7:56pm
    Agree 100%
    I can remember when
    11th Dec 2018
    7:58pm
    Not sure what you mean. In the 231 years of immigration to Australia (the vast majority from the UK), I'd say the country has developed considerably. There's cities all over the place, industry, farming,lots of people with jobs and all sorts of consumer goods - all sorts of stuff. You must have noticed?
    Misty
    11th Dec 2018
    8:29pm
    Ignore Lothario, he speaks a lot of nonsense can't stand to see his political party criticised, they can do no wrong in his eyes.
    jackie
    12th Dec 2018
    12:29am
    Lothario...The Liberals brought here those lovely Africans they complain about. Ha ha
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    17th Dec 2018
    10:56am
    Pot calling kettle black, Misty. Nobody speaks more nonsense than you, and Labor can do no wrong in your eyes, so lay off Lothario. I don't like him, but he's as entitled to his politics as you are - and to say whatever he chooses.
    Misty
    17th Dec 2018
    12:05pm
    So OGR, Lothario is entitled to his politics but I am not?, surely this is being hypocritical, otherwise if Lothario is allowed to make whatever comments he wants then surely I can do the same.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    17th Dec 2018
    2:48pm
    You do, Misty. Regardless of anyone's feelings. you say whatever you please. When told you insult or cause hurt or offence, you ramp it up. I merely suggested Lothario was doing no worse, and had the same rights. I don't like him or his politics, and I don't agree with him, but he is doing no worse than you have.
    Misty
    17th Dec 2018
    3:38pm
    You and I will never agree OGR I find your reams of comments insulting to pensioners, then you try to justify that by saying only greedy pensioners, well let me tell you I am sure many pensioners on here do find your comments insulting but don't want to hurt your feelings by commenting as they feel they will cop a tirade from you.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Dec 2018
    5:26pm
    And I find your selfishness extremely offensive, Misty. Words don't do a lot of harm, but YOU want to livelihood wiped out. That's about as vile as it gets.
    Misty
    19th Dec 2018
    11:02pm
    Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    20th Dec 2018
    7:56am
    And that's about the level of your integrity.
    Misty
    20th Dec 2018
    9:43am
    Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z
    fred
    11th Dec 2018
    10:03am
    immigration might grow the consumers to retail outlets and great for company profits but they are mostly funded by handouts from the Australian taxpayer ( Centerlink ) with overgenerous welfare and freebies . The ANU academic Liz Allen is just another public servant and burden on the taxpayer I agree with OnlyGenuineRainey the immigrants are a drain on the economy and a fictitious plus in the budget growth forecasts as they are e"negatively geared "
    HDRider
    11th Dec 2018
    10:04am
    Yes, we'll build tent cities for them and have the UN take over our beautiful country.
    This bloke must be a Greens member or a just plain member
    MICK
    11th Dec 2018
    11:25am
    Likely from the business community trying to engineer a bigger market place. Ordinary citizens will pay the price and business leaders living at Point Piper will care.
    Old Man
    11th Dec 2018
    10:26am
    There are many problems raised by this article. Australia has a shortage of skilled tradespeople which must be addressed and an input of skilled migrants could be a partial answer to this problem. Housing in some cities is a problem and the obvious solution is to have migrants move away from cities but this is almost impossible as there are very few jobs in a majority of country areas. The lack of jobs in country areas may be caused, in part, by a lack of cheap transport to move raw materials and finished product to the markets. Instead of paying welfare, use the funds to subsidise transport for those companies which decentralise.

    Now, this is sure to cause a response, but I advocate bringing back a form of National Service. Our Defence Forces have a wonderful system of training apprentices which is not hindered by unions. Apprentices are not restricted to the work they undertake nor the hours they work and after a couple of years an apprentice would be highly skilled and ready to be employed. People forget that the Defence Forces do more than train people to serve in the front lines, those who do are ably supported by a host of personnel in a number of disciplines.

    The refugee intake must be cut back and replaced by those who wish to emigrate who have the skills that Australia is lacking. This was done successfully in the years following WWII and most of those immigrants contributed with their skills.

    Another contentious point is the assets and income test for an age pension and I believe that the figures currently in place are correct and the only variation should be a CPI adjustment. It's wrong to say that they paid tax all their working lives and therefore are "entitled" to a pension. Their taxes actually paid for the pensions of others and the current workforce taxes will pay for current pensioners.
    jackie
    11th Dec 2018
    11:06am
    Old Man.....To cover our shortage of trade skills Australia can train our young unskilled Australians. There is a high percentage of them unemployed.

    The refugee intake should stop if they can't be provided with jobs instead of welfare handouts.

    Immigration should be cut right back and only allow high skilled migrants in such as scientists, doctors etc. We don't need cooks, hairdressers, carers and etc. Those that already are here don't have enough hours and have to be on welfare.

    The age pension is to help the disadvantaged not the advantaged. It always was welfare and always will be.
    Old Man
    11th Dec 2018
    11:25am
    I agree,jackie, about getting the young unemployed to take up apprenticeships but they don't seem interested. Newstart is higher than most 1st year apprentices earn and some of our precious young people can't see past that. You can drive a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

    I don't agree with your elitist claim that we only need scientists and doctors etc. Your remark suggests that tradespeople are not highly skilled yet it's their skills that build the hospitals and machinery that scientists and doctors use to do their work. The shortage in the workplace in Australia is tradespeople and if we can't grow them then we have to import them.
    MICK
    11th Dec 2018
    11:34am
    Australia has a skills shortage for one reason only. After the GFC tradies did not put on apprentices but instead sacked the ones they had. To throw fuel onto the fire governments did nothing about it and then attacked TAFE, which it all but destroyed.
    'We have a skills shortage''? Only because of bad government.
    We do not need to import labour. We need to TRAIN OUR OWN and business people screaming for imported people can get stuffed. THEY created the problem and THEY should fix it.

    The only place you are wrong is in regard to the assets test. A pension is a RIGHT in almost every first world nation no matter what your income. In Australia the game from the current government has been to attack retirees who provided a very modest income for themselves. Whilst $800,000 is a fair bit of money it is precious little when trying to earn an income in a low interest environment and it should never have been introduced at that level. What we have is the ongoing war on retirees and the belief they should be destituted. That is intergenerational war and genYs are going to find out their attacks on their parents comes back to bite them when their inheritance is gone.
    You need to rethink this one OM and do not listen to party briefings which try to legitimise what is bad policy.
    Sundays
    11th Dec 2018
    12:15pm
    I agree Old Man with your views on immigration. However, the change in the Asset tests has made more people spend down, so they qualify for a part pension which gives them a higher income than they would have otherwise. Who can blame them. There are also too many anomalies and grandfathered rules that I believe the whole system needs an overhaul.
    Old Man
    11th Dec 2018
    12:28pm
    MICK, TAFE's are a state controlled body, which state do you mean attacked the TAFE system? Part of the skill shortage can be put down to the government insisting that all students need to sit for the HSC and encouraging students to move to university thereby suggesting that a trade was second class. I agree that we need to train our own, MICK, and I have already said that but it takes time, time that we do not have so the gap has to be filled.

    Interesting comment about the pension and you and I will continue to disagree. The disagreement has nothing to do with ideology on my part but a simple matter of costs that Australia cannot afford. Your plan would see Sir Frank Lowy getting a full age pension and associated discounts and I disagree with that. Your mythical person with $800,000 who should probably achieve 2% on their funds (if the assets are cash only) would give a return of $16000pa, certainly not enough to live on so the capital would drop. When the capital drops to the minimum of $375,000 (assuming a couple) and the funds are in super, they would get a joint pension of about $36,000pa plus they need to draw a minimum of 5% which is about $18,750pa. That's about $1000pw free of tax. Is there an advantage in having funds which will eventually form part of the estate left to family?
    MICK
    11th Dec 2018
    12:44pm
    The TAFE system was farmed out to private operators. These were mostly shonks who awarded their worthless degrees but taught little of nothing. That system is now being repaired in NSW.
    Yes governments of both persuasion continue on with 'education' as the panacea of all ills. Labor is the prim offender her but both sides are at it. The old saying about 'you can't make a mink stole out of a sow's ear' applies and some kids need to go straight from year 10 into an apprenticeship. The fact they they are illiterate, a common complaint, is because kids and their parents rule the classroom and are allowed to progress to the next year when they have failed miserably. Can't hurt their self esteem apparently!
    You are dead wrong about pensions. I certainly agree that those who have significant assets and/or wealth and income should not be given a pension. Common sense...but $800,000 assets test is class warfare. To make my point even if every Australian of pension age were given an unrestricted pension this would be small when compared to tax cuts for rich citizens as well as the much fought for company tax cuts by the same cohort.

    We should not have given tax cuts. We should have increased taxes and closed tax shelters where profits are exported to offshore tax havens. These are fraudulent but NEVER closed. I wonder why!

    You might want to back off the attacks on average people OM. Society needs to work for all and no part of it should be handed the wealth of the nation. The pie is big enough for all....but as I keep saying the top want it all.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th Dec 2018
    12:47pm
    That's the whole point, Old Man. There IS no point in having $800,000, so there is a massive incentive for people to spend up and retire on a pension. It's therefore MORE expensive to have a too harsh assets test than to encourage and reward saving by raising the bar or having an income test only. And we are impoverishing our young by impoverishing their elders. An inheritance would relieve a lot of problems for grandchildren struggling to buy houses and would enable more people to retire with dignity and be less of a burden on the economy.

    The current policies are economic failures. They don't improve Australia's budget at all, because they simply don't make sense and they don't encourage people to do what's good for the nation.
    Old Man
    11th Dec 2018
    12:52pm
    OK, MICK, just so we can get onto the same page, what is your threshold for the asset test? We agree that people like Sir Frank Lowy should be ineligible because of "significant assets" but what do you consider "insignificant assets"? Not nit picking per se but just trying to set some parameters for a discussion point.
    Rae
    11th Dec 2018
    2:29pm
    Frank Lowy is as eligible as anyone else. I'm over this envy and jealousy of anyone who worked hard and built a successful life. All who worked and paid taxes should be treated equally.
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    6:46pm
    Severe shortage of skilled camel drivers and drovers....
    Adrianus
    12th Dec 2018
    8:56am
    Rae, equality doesn't work that way, unfortunately.
    What if it did though???
    MICK
    12th Dec 2018
    10:21am
    OM - a common sense consensus approach is what is required. The question the government should ask is whether or not they want retirees to be self funded or not to help keep pensions down. If I were asked about where the assets test should be I'd say around the $1.5 million mark. 3% of that is $75,000 pa and if the government thinks that is too high an income for retirees then levy tax on retiree income above $50,000. That would seem fair from my perspective.
    I am fully in favour of people owning assets, other than the family home, of more than $2 million making their own way.
    As I have indicated many times I believe the current batch have every intention of bring the family home into a future assets test. If not this lot then certainly a genY parliament dominated which is likely only 20 years away.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    12th Dec 2018
    1:39pm
    If we are not going to implement a universal pension and tax on retirement income, then we should abolish the assets test - because it's a FAKE indicator of wealth, especially if the family home isn't included.
    Test income only, but include deemed income on assets INCLUDING THE FAMILY HOME over a very generous threshold. Base the test on the higher of actual or deemed income, with special provisions for disadvantaged folk who cannot achieve a decent return for some valid reason.

    That removes the incentive to manipulate by buying an expensive home, rewards people for saving, and ensures that those who can't achieve a reasonable return for some reason are not treated unfairly.
    Retired Knowall
    13th Dec 2018
    10:13am
    From the "International Labour Organisation" (ILO)

    Ninety per cent of World Excluded from Old Age Pension Schemes
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    15th Dec 2018
    11:48am
    Some folk think we should transform Australia into one of those third world countries where the OAP is nothing more than a wild dream. Some folk think quoting statistics and referring to conditions in other nations is a valid argument for stuffing up Australia.
    Not a Bludger
    11th Dec 2018
    10:30am
    Unadulterated tripe!
    And these people get paid a mozza for these entirely unscientific reports using entirely untested assumptions so as to reflect their personal views in a shroud of gobbledegook.
    MICK
    11th Dec 2018
    11:35am
    Rare agreement but you are spot on.
    Noodles
    11th Dec 2018
    2:43pm
    Academics live in a rarified atmosphere and I take what they say with a grain of salt.
    Need to live and work in the real world!!
    Triss
    11th Dec 2018
    3:51pm
    Agree, NaB, I wonder how much they were paid to air their opinions.
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    6:51pm
    It's the Social Science option these days - equal treatment with or without evidence amounting to proof....

    But that's what's called a Manswer these days, a title of derision and contempt for the oppressor...

    Amazing how much of the utter insanity of early 'feminism' has pervaded academia and other walks of life these days..... my favourite is "The oppressor has no rights!" (oppressor non-specified, but clearly Men and specifically White Men).... and under an increasingly gynocentric and ethnocentric sky, this has somehow become mainstream thought....

    Look around you......

    You people (are not yet paratroopers??) really need to think about such things... and view modern Australian 'culture' without the honey-coated lenses...

    One of the joys of being old is that you actually know the difference between truth and untruth....
    Retired Knowall
    13th Dec 2018
    10:14am
    Unadulterated tripe!
    As do most of the Trolls on this forum.
    The Other Judith
    11th Dec 2018
    10:51am
    The author of this piece is Olga Galacho who is closely associated with real estate journalism. The real estate industry is trying to keep the crazy prices of housing rising and rising and immigration is a huge part of that. The supposed increasing cost of aging is hugely overblown by people who are making money from the dramatic increases in population in recent years which are making our cities unlivable. If we try to cover ageing 'problems' by increasing population then eventually there won't be room to move in any capital city as each generation has to be covered by more immigration. There will be absolutely no chance for anyone without family capital to help them on their way buy a house or I imagine have any decent standard of living. We are a society not a business and we will always find solutions together if we approach problems with goodwill and keep greedy psychopaths under control.
    MICK
    11th Dec 2018
    11:38am
    Interesting angle. Yes the real estate industry is one of the industries which is happy to flood our country with people so that IT CAN MAKE MONEY. This is the nature of business which will destroy the very things which sustain us all with their veracious appetite for more money. God save us from idiots like this.
    I can recall watching the remake of The Time Machine when the lead character is in the monster's den. The monster makes a comment about 'controlling the mindless masses' stating that if he didn't they would soon wipe out the food supply. So it is for business. They will. Give them time.
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    6:56pm
    All of which would be fine, Judith, except that increasingly we are also told that the 'younger generations of workers' cannot sustain the aging population, and if that is so, adding people who don't work is not going to change the situation other than to create more slums, ghettoes, and a lower lifestyle for everyone else.

    As Rainey and a few others said above - when you add to that mix non-productive people who have no real concept of a day's work etc.... from a culture where a day's work might be wandering down to the market place and trading some dates for coffee or whatever or chopping a goat for supper .... but WORK for it and go buy some dates and coffee?

    That's beneath the patriarch of (gasps) certain kinds of culture...
    GeorgeM
    11th Dec 2018
    9:15pm
    I was wondering about the motivation for this biased article - thanks for the tip, Judith. Yes, the real estate industry could very well be behind this one!
    Hobbit
    11th Dec 2018
    10:57am
    The real burden on our economy is multi-national organisations that don't pay their fair share of taxes.If they paid just their share all our funding issues would disappear. But the ATO won't chase them because the multi-nationals can afford lawyers, instead they harass small defenceless taxpayers.
    Politicians support the Multi-nationals because it brings them power. Politicians should be doing what they're paid for and create legislation that allows the ATO to collect those taxes without loop-holes and appeals. It's a difficult task but it'd be good to see pollies work hard for a change.
    jackie
    11th Dec 2018
    11:13am
    Hobbit...The Multi-nationals don't pay tax because of legal loopholes. When Governments refuse to close the legal loopholes in Parliament what does that tell you? Australians voted an ex Prime Minister in that avoided taxes through legal loopholes. I bet he isn't the only one doing that in Parliament just like Negative Gearing.

    Australia needs honest politicians to Govern the country. This is the reason we are turning into a third world country.
    MICK
    11th Dec 2018
    11:39am
    Yes Hobbit but you can't expect multinationals and the rich to pay tax...... Tax is for poor people who have no power and no rights.
    floss
    11th Dec 2018
    11:17am
    Perhaps our past immigration policy has caused the present problem .Our present immigration does little for ordinary Australians and is just passing the overpopulation problems to our kids.If global warming is real the last thing Australia needs is more people not what our pollies want to accept.The city I live in fast running out of decent infrastructure.
    MICK
    11th Dec 2018
    11:19am
    So the do gooders now want to flood the country with 280,000 people pa? The ultimate betrayal of the nation!
    I can see the pluses but why is it that the negatives are always left out? These inconvenient facts ARE what is important. Not the calls from idiots at the wheel. Consider,

    1. growth is like pyramid selling. You get to a stage where the whole pack of cards collapses because you cannot indefinitely increase population. It is the mindset of the intellectually disturbed. Come on in most politicians and their businessmen mates!
    2. Australia has limited food producing land and limited water. What part of that don't these 'experts' not get?
    3. Our food producing land (freehold title = gone forever) is being sold to foreigners and foreign governments. Anybody who shows up with the dough! China owns the 5 biggest farms in the nation and this food is destined for overseas consumption. Like our huge gas deposits we will never get one crumb. So what's left for us to grow our food with an ever increasing population? Clearly that has no relevance in this discussion.
    4. Ecosystems around the planet are already facing extinction and Australia has the highest rate of extinction on the planet. But who cares?
    5. Our oceans are being handed to Super trawlers to fish out and we are seeing more and more farmed seafood on the supermarket shelves, much of it from (dodgy) Asia.
    6. Bring in people by the super liner may look good on paper but consider the huge infrastructure needs. Those of us living in Sydney and Melbourne ca attest to that. IT COSTS US ALL.
    6. Mass immigration will end up with mass poverty in this country. Unavoidable given we have sold our industries to third world countries and rely on imports to be able to survive.

    Calls for mass migration are calls from idiots. If retirees are the real reason for this call (they aren't) then take back the tax cuts handed to the rich by the current rich man's government and plough it into services and income for retirees. Oh yes...WE CAN'T HAVE THAT!!!

    My worry is that Australians who appear for the most part to be not very bright may actually believe this sort of BS. I hope not because this is straight from big business wanting a bigger market to increase THEIR profits. Nothing at all to do with needs.
    musicveg
    11th Dec 2018
    12:55pm
    Well said Mick, your points are what I was thinking, saves me writing it.
    Gypsy
    11th Dec 2018
    2:13pm
    MICK. You are spot on with this one. We live in a rural area of WA - down south. We had numerous African families arrive. Within weeks, they all had brand new cars, they were found very nice homes, wearing clothing we couldn't afford & not one of them works. Yes, I do know this for sure.
    Why are we doing this to ourselves. We're allowing it by not rising up. I don't mean street violence etc either.
    Listening to many of you on here, why haven't we got our own political party. I mean seriously, not in gest. No one is going to represent us lot, except us lot. Maybe some of you could band together & start the Pensioners Party - or whatever. I'll vote for you.
    Noodles
    11th Dec 2018
    2:44pm
    As for a seniors political party...has been tried...never worked...people too apathetic and why spend your retirement being stressed.
    Triss
    11th Dec 2018
    5:54pm
    I think the reason they failed, Noodles, was the name. Pensioners and seniors party doesn’t doesn’t sound as though it addresses everyone, a pensioners party needs a more vibrant name.
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    7:01pm
    Mick for President....

    Triss - we need 'the armies of the night' to get on board - the poor, the downtrodden, the huddled masses of unemployed (huddling in single rooms for ten) yearning to be free......

    Watch this space for screeching from the MSM about 'Populism' - well, after all, what is Populism but the expressed will and concerns of The People?

    **Everything fine in America..
    (Ten to a room in America),
    Everything fine in America..
    (organised crime in America)....**

    Great song - applies today...
    GeorgeM
    11th Dec 2018
    9:23pm
    Excellent comments, MICK.

    They are also trying to imply that the Ageing people are a Cost - when the problem could have been managed much better if they simply put aside & invested the 7.5% taxes collected with Income Tax since 1940s to fund Age Pensions. Instead of the CRAP system we have, we should have Universal Age Pension with NO tests other than Age (65) and Residency (should be say 15 years).

    We also have HUGE resources - if we simply take them back by Nationalisation, we would be a VERY, VERY RICH COUNTRY, probably not need any taxes - except on Foreign Companies & Foreign products / services. Of course, we do need to ensure at least those companies pay!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    13th Dec 2018
    5:22am
    Oh, I see Triss. So it's only pensioners that matter. Self-funded retirees are excluded?
    floss
    11th Dec 2018
    11:26am
    I had thought that Australians were not aware of the problems caused by overpopulation but after reading your comments you fully understand the problem and most would like our pollies to wake up some thing that just will not happen.
    floss
    11th Dec 2018
    11:33am
    Great comment Mick you really nailed the problems that are now happening in Australia why can't our brain dead pollies see it.
    MICK
    11th Dec 2018
    11:41am
    Thanks floss. The short answer is they know but prefer to sell us out for a few bucks of electoral donations. This is why I keep calling for ALL donations and inducements of any kind should be banned. No exceptions.
    Old Man
    11th Dec 2018
    12:32pm
    MICK, I'm sure you know which companies donate to which major party. Big business plays both sides and I don't see Labor handing back any donations from big business. Yes, they are in the process of handing back a $250,000 donation from a businessman but they have put a levy on MP's to raise the funds. The refund has only come about because the businessman was charged with a serious crime. Neither side is squeaky clean when it comes to donations, MICK.
    MICK
    11th Dec 2018
    12:47pm
    Of course both sides are tarnished. One side much much more than the other though.

    That's why I keep saying electoral donations need to be banned in all their forms, punishable with jail time rather than harsh words. End the game and you end the criminal behaviour.
    Old Man
    11th Dec 2018
    12:55pm
    I agree, MICK, but how do you suggest that your theory can be put into practice? We see unions advertising about the state of the nation on our TV's so do you include those ads? What if coal companies write comments in the media, does that count? You can't stop it MICK.
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    7:10pm
    Unions are separate bodies from political parties, OM - if they choose to advertise that is their right, as much as it is the right of the coal industry advertise....

    People simply need to work out fact from fiction....
    MICK
    12th Dec 2018
    10:28am
    As I see it we need a two prong approach:

    1. Laws to ban donations of all sort - jail time for any who think the law does not apply to them!
    2. Laws to ban political propaganda in the media - perhaps an end to media baron ownership with a maximum 5% shareholding by any one person.

    Life ain't perfect OM but somehow citizens need to take back the democracy the big end of town believes it owns. It would be hard but the voices of the many need to stand up to the few who own the game. I live in hope!
    Curious
    11th Dec 2018
    11:39am
    I am absolutely gobsmacked to read this article. The demographic analysis of our population needs is so lopsided, it is a joke. Why don't we look at our population needs from a human- resource perspective with a view to yielding a good investment return to cover all our social benefits. That is to assume, we have an equitable tax system for a fair distribution our bounties for all to share.

    Based on this demographic analysis, Australia, as a wealthy nation, asks immigrants to this country to finance our ageing population. This suggestion is preposterous. It immediately tells people outside Australia what sort of a country we have become. Failure of our government to provide workable fiscal and monetary policies for a favorable budget. Failure of policies to provide an equilibrium of an economic success with an equitable social cohesion due to a lack of a faire tax reform and social initiatives. Failure of infrastructure to accommodate the increase the size of our population across the spectrum of generations and their needs.

    While I am not criticizing the demography as a discipline, the running if a country needs the right combination of multi-disciplines to make it work for its citizen. Sensationalized the issue of one discipline isn't going to help at all.
    MICK
    11th Dec 2018
    11:46am
    I agree. We have many unemployed and underemployed Australians who are continually being pushed aside. We do not need mass migration and the reasons given to justify this are only a smokescreen for the real reason: big business wants a larger market place to sell its goods and services in and to grow. We are being sold out by the very organisations which take their profits to offshore tax shelters.

    What we need is laws which put business back in their box away from the bribing of governments and laws to not only end the profit exports but also to demand back taxes. If some fail then they fail. At least the country gets its money back and all of us can prosper rather then being cannibalised by our own governments.
    The wolf
    11th Dec 2018
    11:41am
    Let's not make the same mistakes as Europe and allow too many from one only side of the equation. Call me racist or islsmophobic but not one section of any community should have precedence from any other and only what benefit the country in the long term is important.
    MICK
    11th Dec 2018
    11:47am
    You are not racist for presenting the facts. This is the taunt commonly used by pressure groups to shut down any opposition to their demands.
    Sen.Cit.89
    11th Dec 2018
    12:29pm
    Yes, Wolf, you are correct and not a racist.
    Mick, I've read all your comment above and happy to agree with all of them.
    MICK
    11th Dec 2018
    12:48pm
    It is nice to occasionally be bashing each other's brains out.
    Retired Knowall
    13th Dec 2018
    10:21am
    OK Wolf, what migrant group are you referring too.
    maelcolium
    11th Dec 2018
    12:15pm
    Rubbish. The major problem facing Australia are the neoliberal policies which are not contributing to the productive use of resources which would easily fill the productivity gap if the proper policies were in place. Choices of funding are NOT relative to taxation but Government spending, which has been kept too low for decades. The low interest rate has diverted investment from productive uses to speculation, which is about to implode as asset values fall. Low wage growth and high unemployment policies have reduced the share of productivity which has been swept into corporate profits. Over thirty years the GDP increase has been shared around 60% to profits and less than 10% to wages. With respect to the elderly accessing services, this is at risk only if the unemployment levels are kept low because the proportion of young people are either un or underemployed which creates an imbalance that will be difficult to fill unless Governments engage policies that educate, train and employ the younger cohort.
    The idea that Australia cannot afford to maintain services is completely untrue. We are a resource rich country, but our key resource which is people, are not employed or paid adequately. THis mindless pursuit of surplus and austerity is what is destroying the country and the responsibility is firmly at the feet of the politicians. They are frozen in action for the people by lobbyists and the financial criminals who are at last being exposed.
    Stop this ridiculous comment on intergenerational tension please. The headline is pure clickbait and it just gets people worked up about things which are not a problem in the first place. I'm sick of it. Migrants are not the problem - the politicians are and need to be tossed out by independents who will work for the people.
    musicveg
    11th Dec 2018
    12:57pm
    Well said, it really is getting people worked up here.
    Charlie
    11th Dec 2018
    12:27pm
    What a dumb idea

    Big assumption migrants will be employed immediately.

    More likely they will be getting welfare payments, taking money that should be going to seniors.

    But is wrong with making it a priority to keep seniors employed longer or in part time positions and getting full or part pensions.
    Julian
    11th Dec 2018
    12:29pm
    My 'immigrant' neighbours too appeared to have been given wads of cash. They were alll on the disability pension, owned 2 to 4 cars each despite only the male having a licence, and spent their entire days socialising, smoking cigarettes and watching TV...all on the backs of taxpayers' hard work.

    All good in theory provided immigrants are working and contibuting not mooching off our generous welfare system
    bartpcb
    11th Dec 2018
    12:40pm
    Totally abolishing 'assets testing', would be a good start to the 'Pensioner problem'. Another good thing would be to, stop the bullshit about pensioners costing the government and the poor young people so much. You all know it's a bullshit smoke screen. Find something else to pick on. Oh yes, let's see, how's about your own incompetence at government and economic management???
    musicveg
    11th Dec 2018
    12:58pm
    Exactly..
    Triss
    11th Dec 2018
    5:59pm
    Good one, bartpcb.
    Ted Wards
    11th Dec 2018
    12:43pm
    They spend more on military and collecting tax evaders and welfare cheats.
    Mad as hell
    11th Dec 2018
    12:52pm
    The 2017 changes to the Pensioner Assets Test resulted in 330,000 pensioners having their assets stolen from pensions to which they were entitled.

    The eligibility for the age pension for immigrants is too generous, 10 years total with at least 5 years continuous, how is that sustainable?

    “Academic “calling for migration boost, hmmm.
    musicveg
    11th Dec 2018
    1:02pm
    What a stupid idea, we cannot even sort out infrastructure, have enough jobs, train the young or look after our farmers. Pensioners are not the problem here, aging is not a problem, the problem is the money is going to the wrong places, like politicians who keep leaving and claiming their lifetime pensions, being paid full time wages when they only work part time and the many companies that avoid paying taxes. Why is YLC even posting the rubbish. Check out Sustainable Australia party and see their policies about immigration and their reasoning why we need to kerb it not expand it.
    Rae
    11th Dec 2018
    2:42pm
    Yes even our banking system is 85% foreign owned. As long as the money flows out of the country just bringing in more people won't fix the problem of lack of funds.

    Who thought it a great idea to sell Australia out from under us all?
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    7:18pm
    Bloody Castroists...... (LMAO) .. not having a lend of you two.. it's my way of stating that I agree with you and so did Castro.... amazing how things work in the real world...

    Castro did a Whitlam Idea and nationalised all industries and resources..... and was nearly invaded by the US for doing so...

    When Nasser nationalised the Suez Canal, Egypt WAS invaded...

    If Australia unilaterally and arbitrarily takes BACK what has been given away for a song, it will become the Cuba of The South Seas in the eyes of many.... but in my eyes it must needs be done.

    I will refer you once again to the international convention that in the event of hostilities, any debts owed to a hostile belligerent nation are called off and all assets confiscated.... in the event of an outbreak of hostilities in the Pacific Basin, which hostilities involve Australia... all debts to 'enemy' nations will be repudiated and all their assets seized.....

    Now, then..... I wonder who Trump is poking with a stick.... not that it's one-way poking... but still...
    GeorgeM
    11th Dec 2018
    9:27pm
    Good comments, musicveg.
    Yes, Trebor, Nationalisation of all Resources and taking back our Land from Foreigners should be Step 1...
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    10:37pm
    Indeed, George - I don't recall anyone outside of politics signing up to globalising all of our resources .... including our people.... who must then perforce live at the same level as the lowest on the globe or be forced into poverty at a far lower level than required to live HERE in other ways... un- and under-employment, rising costs of basic utilities, transfer of tax revenue offshore ... all those lurks are designed to create a new serf class of everyone but the self-appointed elite.. and Labor in this way is no different...

    We need to turf the bloody lot in Cambra and their cohorts at State level, and start again.
    Eddy
    11th Dec 2018
    1:30pm
    I can remember the popular bi-partisan political mantra of the 1950s, 'Populate or Perish", does it still apply? We need more working age people to support those who are past working. Big difference is the source of immigration, in the 1950s most migration was from UK with a smaller proportion from European countries. The 'White Australia Policy", again bi-partisan, was vigorously applied. People complain about congestion in our cities, and I agree, it is a nuisance but that may be the price we have to pay to keep our country moving forward. We cannot stagnate. The Australia I grew up in of the 1950s and 1960s is nothing like the Australia of 2018. We must adapt to the new reality that we need young people in work to support those of us who either cannot work or choose not to work (and I put myself in the later). Unfortunately, with a declining birth-rate, immigration is the only practical solution. The debate should not be whether we accept immigrants but on how many. 280,000 may be too many but it may not be sufficient for our needs.
    Rae
    11th Dec 2018
    2:44pm
    We had 311 000 babies born here last year alone. The % looks less but the numbers are expanding. We are short schools and facilities for all these kids already.
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    7:20pm
    We don't need more people in Lifeboat Australia - we need our assets and resources rationalised and nationalised to garner OUR best interests and wealth...

    Instead we have politicians determined to endlessly split this society and culture into smaller and smaller opposing groups...

    Lock The Gates!
    Susanne
    11th Dec 2018
    1:31pm
    I arrived to Australia with my family when I just turned 16 after 9 month in Europe migrant camp My aunty arranged a work for me after 3 days of arrival Nobody handed nothing for us free Now I am nearing to 80 Not a pensioner Punished for living a frugal life
    Rae
    11th Dec 2018
    2:45pm
    Yes and that is just plain wrong. Why are the frugal savers being punished. It is blatantly unfair.
    Triss
    11th Dec 2018
    6:05pm
    The only way you can change that,Rae, is to have a universal, basic pension and if you want extra comfort you have to put money aside during your working life.
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    10:39pm
    .. and, Triss, you must live in a nation that offers genuine opportunity to all who want to work.... and for the Laborites - that means genuine EQUAL opportunity - not your current nonsense enforcement of numbers.

    If equal outcome was guaranteed for effort etc, I'd be a multi-billionaire...so stop the lies.
    TREBOR
    12th Dec 2018
    11:56am
    Not you, Triss - I meant the 'equality' liars etc.
    1984
    11th Dec 2018
    1:38pm
    4 corners about our population growth.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D83nD4rghpw
    Infinityoz
    11th Dec 2018
    1:58pm
    What utter rubbish! OGR always spouts BS about "welfare cheats" ... and doesn't realise that her kind also goes on about "migrants taking our jobs" ... a contradiction no?

    But where the article is such total nonsense is that in order to cater for migrants we need massive increases in infrastructure, new houses or flats, public transport, water and sewerage and of course, the current obsession which is power prices. This is why increasing immigration is a VERY. BAD. IDEA. The people who come here under various types of visa are usually arriving with a job already lined up [the old 457, whatever it's called now], so sure, they are not costing the taxpayer anything at all. But the provision of accommodation and all other services is the killer problem. Especially in NSW with the Berejiklian Government, any funds they migh thave from escalating rates and charges are being wasted on stupid, unnecessary new stadiums to replace the perfectly good ones already there and functioning!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    12th Dec 2018
    1:35pm
    Infinityoz, you don't read. I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT spout about 'welfare cheats'. I have mentioned one I know personally who IS a massive cheat and one who was reported on TV recently who is clearly ripping off. My criticism is of the SYSTEM that encourages cheating. And I have never said anything about migrants taking our jobs. But I have repeatedly defended the unemployed and pointed out that the government lies about the true rate of unemployment, and does not do nearly enough to support those who are disadvantaged in the job market.

    If you are going to make insulting personal comments, have the intelligence to get your facts right.
    AutumnOz
    11th Dec 2018
    2:01pm
    Direct quote from the above article. "Dr Allen wrote that while population ageing was not a new phenomenon, Australia had not experienced the current magnitude and its likely consequences before.
    The scale and future prospects of structural population ageing are the likes of which Australia has never seen, and to that end, Australia is faced with a demographic crossroad,” she said."
    Hasn't it occurred to any of those who are constantly shouting 'we need more migrants to keep the economy going, do this job or that job etc.' that about half of the current ageing population came to Australia as migrants and eventually many of those migrants brought their ageing parents to Australia so they could look after them, if there was no other family care for them.
    This constant cry for more and more migrants by various so called experts must realise that there just isn't the room for any more migrants until there is affordable housing for not only the incoming migrants but also for those already here who cannot find a house at a reasonable price.
    There are not enough full time jobs to go around now, there is not enough public transport and there certainly isn't enough room in the cities for them to expand.
    All the agricultural land around Sydney has already disappeared under expensive little boxes for people to live in and the quality of life is deterioriating rapidily for many people in Australia especially those living on part pensions because of the assets test and those on Newstart.
    Our farms, both vegetable and animal, have little or no water, the rivers are drying up and the townsfolk digging for water to drink, the drought is continuing with no sign of it lifting soon.
    Australia is in big trouble and still the calls for more and more migration go out.
    The mind boggles.
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    10:42pm
    Drive through Kurri Kurri and there is a place called Chinaman's Creek - flat land on the creek - it used to be a market garden. the flat land east of Mascot Airport used to be Chinese market gardens.... and very productive...

    Just older and small-scale examples of what you say about productive land vanishing.. then there's the Bylong Valley and Obeid and his mates.... parts of the Hunter Valley devastated and moonscaped....
    Rae
    11th Dec 2018
    2:20pm
    Absolute nonsense. There was no secret about the numbers of people in different age groups. We have also doubled the population from when we were younger and have added 3 million just in the past 10 years.

    There is no shortage of people. Shortage of common sense and good government is what we have and more people won't fix that.

    Better get on building the schools and hospitals neglected for the numbers we have right now. Sort out the water shortages as well.
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    7:22pm
    ... but... but.. but... where are the roads and rail lines to get to them?
    Noodles
    11th Dec 2018
    2:46pm
    after reading all the comments why on earth would you put Labor back in power...the risk of opening the flood gates AGAIN is too great!!!

    at least with the current government the tide has been stemmed.
    KSS
    11th Dec 2018
    3:23pm
    Only the tide of irregular boat arrivals has been stemmed Noodles, not the overall increase in legitimate migration.
    Noodles
    11th Dec 2018
    4:27pm
    "

    Not according to this article from

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/jun/13/australias-immigration-rate-to-fall-again-as-work-visa-approvals-drop

    "Australia’s migrant intake will be substantially down this financial year – possibly 25,000 below the 190,000 planned figure – led by reductions in the number of skilled and sponsored working visas.

    The migration program has been at 190,000 since 2012-13 but dropped to 183,000 last financial year and will fall further again this year.

    Figures disclosed at Senate estimates and visa statistics obtained by Guardian Australia under freedom of information reveal the number of visas granted in 2017-18 is likely to be 165,000 – the lowest level in seven years."

    As of an hour ago Albanese and Plibersek have changed their tune on "push backs"...if they can be believed. After Rudd's promise I dont believe it myself.

    Labor left will not be happy and I understand this will not be on the Agenda at the forthcoming Labor Party conference.
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    10:44pm
    I can't understand why any politician of any stamp would want to continue with the destruction of the very nation and society that elevated him/her to riches for life... let alone cause the devastation to their own people their stupid policies are priming, accelerating and perpetuating.
    jackie
    12th Dec 2018
    1:06am
    Noodles...People are arriving here every day by plane. The flood gates are open.
    Noodles
    13th Dec 2018
    9:59am
    17 detention centres have been closed down..a saving of over $2billion dollars. The boats start up again, so will the detention centres, and so will the cost to taxpayers.
    ozrog
    11th Dec 2018
    3:24pm
    It hasn't changed since the sixties. % of older people is constant. Discrimination against the older generation by pollies and others. Elders built this country including internet and other technologies.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    12th Dec 2018
    7:46am
    And cost of supporting the aged has actually fallen in real terms and is continuing to fall due to superannuation. If IDIOTS in government stopped the stupid policies that punish people for saving and being self-supporting in old age, we'd have far fewer problems. But now the morons in the ALP are planning to wipe out hundreds of thousands of SFRs with unfair taxation, and it seems half the population has fallen for the ALP's massive lies and is supporting this idiotic and cruel policy change.
    Retired Knowall
    14th Dec 2018
    8:29am
    What Planet do live on OZROG?
    Here are the facts straight from the Australian Govt. Institute of Health & Welfare.
    In 1957 % of persons over 65 = 8%
    In 1977 % of persons over 65 = 9%
    In 1997 % of persons over 65 = 12%
    In 2017 % of persons over 65 = 15%
    2027 Estimated % of persons over 65 = 18%
    2037 Estimated % of persons over 65 = 20%
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    14th Dec 2018
    10:53am
    But the cost of aged pensions is NOT rising, Retired Knowall. It's actually starting a consistent pattern of falling due to superannuation. And if the government stopped punishing people for saving, it would fall a lot faster.
    Misty
    15th Dec 2018
    12:26am
    Careful OGR, Retired Knowall will be accusing you of posting dribble next.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    15th Dec 2018
    7:09am
    Retired Knowall was absolutely correct when he accused you of posting dribble, Misty. You DID.
    Misty
    15th Dec 2018
    9:08am
    No comment OGR.
    sybilla
    11th Dec 2018
    3:36pm
    Works just so, so, so well for France......!!??
    Triss
    11th Dec 2018
    3:39pm
    I think it’s called a reframe. People are complaining about immigration so the government puts a new frame around it. Now we’re being told “What’s in it for you”. Government is trying to change our thought processes to...immigration is a good thing because it will ensure a pension.
    Triss
    11th Dec 2018
    3:46pm
    It’s irritating when these so called experts (and it would be interesting to know how much actual real life experience they have) they take one section of the budget and that becomes the downfall of Australia. What percentage does the “elderly burden” cost? And let’s see what other areas cost before we jump on the elderly.
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    10:45pm
    Most academics have no idea what end of a shovel is used...
    Arisaid
    11th Dec 2018
    3:47pm
    So many of the "migrants i.e refugees" do not work so they are a burden on the tax payer. Now the ones that do work and supposedly have money going into the Govt. coffers will also get old and go onto pensions! So really bringing in more is only going to create bigger problems. There is an enormous housing crisis in this country. How is bringing in more people going to halt that. If we were bringing in skilled workers that might help the situation in this country but the problem is they only want to live in the big cities. There is no room for them!!!
    As for medical checks, well I know of a family who came here. Had 4 children and 3 of those children had a very very serious genetic condition which would end up costing this country millions (yes millions) in medical costs. The mother was a carrier, the daughter was a carrier, so if the daughter has children there is every likelihood that her children will have the condition too - more money. This was not declared, picked up etc. by anybody until they came to see the person I worked for. The family were well aware that they had the condition. They can't be the only people coming into this country with similar situations.
    Triss
    11th Dec 2018
    6:13pm
    Yes, Aristide, I notice the academics don’t put a cost on non-working refugees/migrants.
    robmur
    11th Dec 2018
    4:11pm
    Us oldies. It's all our fault the government will be broke looking after us. How could we possibly sustain a 280,000 population increase every year? Most new immigrants seem to migrate to Melbourne or Sydney. Both cities are struggling to keep with the domestic services of housing, roads, schools, public transport, hospitals, just to name a few essentials. It takes two hours to cross Melbourne by car. The roads are a nightmare now. A decrease in immigration would allow services some breathing space. The talk of 280,000 immigrants per year is the view of some wanky academic who will be old by that time and will be that awful burden on the rest of society.
    floss
    11th Dec 2018
    4:53pm
    AutumOZ my thoughts are much the same ,you have put it in a more detailed way and correct in most comments now to convince the clowns in Canberra what should be done is the next challenge.
    Franky
    11th Dec 2018
    5:58pm
    Less migration not more! Stop wasting money on defense and fighting other's wars that would balance the budget easily. Just in the news today, 72 F35 fighter jets at 120mio $ each - it's obscene, such a waste....
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    6:40pm
    Need one say any more about the modern academic with some fine blown-up opinion on some non-issue?
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2018
    7:24pm
    Some very interesting comments here on this and surrounding issues...
    Jannie
    11th Dec 2018
    7:41pm
    Hospitals filled with immigrants it is spot the Aussie. I recently visited The Northern Hospital in Epping North of Melbourne and I was the only Aussie. Interpreters are being used which holds up appointments. Why are we letting people from 3rd world countries into Australia if they cannot speak English? My mother is in an aged care facility and the carers are from overseas most cannot speak English. My mother and others find it hard to understand these workers. God help us.
    Jannie
    11th Dec 2018
    7:49pm
    What about the bashing in St Kilda on Saturday night? Watched the news tonight and guess what the mongrels were black. What on earth is going on? Cannot believe that they get away with bashing people. If I was to bash someone I would be jailed for life. Stop this nonsense now. Stop feeling sorry for asylum seekers because there are billions of them. If you want them, you house them in your own home. Do gooders take heed as one day the tide will turn and I hope on you suckers.
    Jannie
    11th Dec 2018
    7:55pm
    Can you imagine how many will be on the pension 10 years on? With the larger population the cost for paying pensions will explode................... Doomsday is coming.............
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    12th Dec 2018
    7:42am
    Yep, and both sides of politics are ensuing it comes sooner by making it futile to work and save and economically beneficial to manipulate in any way you can to be a pensioner in retirement, and by inflicting cruel penalties for being self-funded. And sadly the favoured pensioners are supporting this madness, instead of recognising that SFRs BENEFIT the nation and demanding they be treated with respect and fairness.
    BillF2
    11th Dec 2018
    8:27pm
    Immigration is the simplest solution for the mess we are in. Asking why we are in this mess raises too many questions about government management, or mismanagement, and direction, e.g. why does the birth rate not match replacement rate? Why is the cost of living so high? Why are people generally becoming less healthy and requiring more medical attention? Why are we exporting raw materials and jobs? Why are we involved in other people's wars and importing refugees from those wars?
    When our politicians start asking the hard questions and come up with practical, sensible solutions that benefit the whole country, then we will, maybe, stop blaming the elderly for the failures of the government.
    Hairy
    11th Dec 2018
    10:24pm
    Right on Mick
    Adrianus
    12th Dec 2018
    8:59am
    Hairy, you rarely see the right on MICK.
    Misty
    11th Dec 2018
    11:39pm
    I heard new migrants, I expect that includes refugees will have to wait 4 years before they can claim benefits from our govt.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    12th Dec 2018
    7:40am
    I doubt it includes refugees, Misty -but I haven't checked the legislation.
    sybilla
    12th Dec 2018
    9:37am
    We target the 'rights' of so many minorities we judge as lacking the same 'fair go' as the rest of us. We allocate perilously declining resources to these groups - I do not need to list them. But why omit the elderly from this heedless generosity???? We rarely make it to the radar of the media fuelled bleeding hearts'. Nor even the 'thought police' give a serious damn about 'agist hate speech'. Face it. We are seen as redundant non-contributors. Yet we give so much: wisdom, counselling, armies of volunteers, babysitters, mentors, and so on. We add value, far in excess of most immigrants. Most of us enrich the culture and wellbeing of this country.
    Misty
    12th Dec 2018
    9:49am
    Well said sybilla.
    TREBOR
    12th Dec 2018
    10:24am
    but.... but... but... aren't we over-burdened with White Privilege (and especially White Male Privilege)? Haven't we had a sweet ride for generations now, without sweat, poverty, hunger etc... unlike the groups chosen for Accredited Victim Status who must needs be handed the world for no effort, just to match up with our Privilege? Starting with poor struggling women, of course, in their 70% teaching, pubic service, well over 70% banking etc jobs, and their time off for this and that and whatever... men have had it so good that men ... and by extension especially White Men, must be kept down and controlled socially and economically since they are a scourge on equality, haven't you heard?

    This nation and countless others have never been any good since the advent of the 'Social Scientists' who know everything.... and haven't managed one forward step yet...

    Stop the War on Men And Their Children!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    12th Dec 2018
    11:06am
    What we need first and foremost is politicians who don't seek to blame and make excuses and who recognise that the key to prosperity is fair reward for work, respect, allowing people their dignity, and promoting social harmony.

    Step 1 is to STOP blaming older Australians for a problem that is NOT of our making, and stop telling younger Australians how much older Australians are costing. The cost of supporting older Australians has NOT risen, but is actually falling, despite increases in numbers. But the combination of a harsh means test, low investment returns and Labor's idiotic franking credit policy will ensure that situation changes and costs skyrocket.

    Abolish the ridiculous means test and step away from this hideously harmful game of abolishing franking credits for battlers to give all the wealth to the wealthy. Start encouraging people to save for retirement and ensuring they are well rewarded for doing so, so that more people do it. We have the framework now for large numbers to be at least substantially self-supporting, but idiotic means tests make it more beneficial to be dishonest, lazy, manipulative, or a spendthrift. Of course there will be a high cost to support retirees while dumb government policies make it more favourable to rely on taxpayers for support than to try to support oneself.

    Unfortunately, the LNP made a bad situation much worse, and now the ALP is threatening to ensure only the very wealthy can ever hope to stay off pensions, and to make sure the majority of the population pull back on retirement saving because it simply doesn't pay. Pensioners are now the new elite, and if you can't beat 'em, you may as well join 'em. That's the philosophy of all my soon-to-retire friends, who are all quite capable of being self-funded, but since the ALP's announcement have declared they have no intention of doing so.
    Misty
    12th Dec 2018
    1:11pm
    And what is wrong with all those friends of yours putting their money into super now for a good return and Allocated Pension?.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    12th Dec 2018
    1:27pm
    Everything, Misty - because the government has made it so there's no benefit. And the Labor Party plans to crucify everyone who did that. You clearly have no idea about super or investment returns.

    Their money is in super at present, but if they take most of it out and spend it they get a pension (GUARANTEED INCOME), benefits, concessions, investment returns on what's left, franking credits - total income $60,000 a year with reduced rates, transport costs, car registration, licence fees, electricity and gas costs, medical costs, chemist bills..... .

    If they leave it in they earn HALF that with ZERO benefits and concessions and the Labor Party denigrating and punishing them until they run their savings down - and even then denying them the franking credit refunds pensioners get. And they face a lot of worry and stress over investment returns and political decisions that pull the rug from under them.

    The only LOGICAL thing to do is spend up big on cruising, buy an expensive house, and be a pensioner.

    If I had bought a house worth twice as much, I'd have double the income I have with exactly the same assets, and I wouldn't be faced with having my income decimated by Short-on-brains. But I'd be costing the nation $40K+++ a year, rising every 6 months. Yet the IDIOTS in the ALP want to rip me off for a few thousand a year in unfair tax, and claim that's good for the budget.

    No wonder the country is in a mess, though, with people voting who have no clue what's going on and just regurgitate uninformed garbage or believe ALP crap.
    Misty
    12th Dec 2018
    3:10pm
    I don't think you can do that now OGR, take your money out of super and spend it, I am sure Centrelink and the ATO are keeping tabs on what people are doing with their super and they would not be eligible for a pension if the take it out and spend it, Centrelink x references with so many banks, businesses, govt depts, there is no way to hide things these days so their chances of getting a pension would be pretty slim. Is that $60,000 for a single person or a married couple?
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    12th Dec 2018
    5:47pm
    Yes, you certainly CAN do it, Misty, and some folk need to. But financial advisers are telling people to because there's no benefit in having the savings.

    $60,000 is for a couple, but a single can get a hefty income and still be a pensioner, whereas people who save are being slaughtered with low returns, huge risk, and rotten political policies.

    You probably think people shouldn't be able to take their money out. Well, do you think someone who went without holidays and treats and bought a cheap house should have to gift wrap all their savings and hand the whole lot to the ATO, while those who DIDN'T save or bought an expensive house get $1 million+ in handouts. That's the situation now, and the ALP will make it 100 times worse! The ALP is giving a fat bonus to the guy who bought a $3 million house and claimed a part pension, and stealing 30% of the income of the guy who settled for a $500,000 home unit and put $900,000 into super so he could self fund.

    People will do what's good for THEM, Misty. If we want to reduce the cost of pensions we need to make it better for people to save and be self-funded - NOT make them worse off for doing it. It's not about hiding anything. Spending it is PERFECTLY LEGAL. In fact, Centrelink financial information officers are TELLING PEOPLE TO DO IT. And they sure do get a pension - easily, with no issue at all, because the IDIOT politicians (of BOTH persuasions) have created a system that encourages and rewards manipulation and punishes doing what's good for the nation. And the ALP will finish the job completely - totally destroying all incentives for self-funding except for the very wealthy.
    Misty
    12th Dec 2018
    9:20pm
    Well OGR I don't know anyone who could afford to buy a $500,000 home and have $900,000 to invest I think a person would have to be be earning well over $100,000 a year. Our Centrelink here in my town would certainly not tell anyone to spend their super, in fact they want to know what you spend your money on if it is over a certain amount.
    Misty
    13th Dec 2018
    12:13am
    I mean earning over $100,000 a year salary over their working life to amass that sort of wealth.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    13th Dec 2018
    5:43am
    You don't know much at all, then, Misty. My partner and I bought a $500,000 home and invested nearly that much - and we NEVER IN OUR LIVES EARNED MORE THAN MINIMUM WAGE - ONE MINIMUM WAGE. We also paid out over $100,000 for medical therapy for a special needs child and dealt with extensive costly health issues for both of us. We put all our kids through university (not that they thanked us in any way for that!) As orphans, we had no family support - no help from anywhere. So you are full of crap, I'm sorry to say, No wonder the Labor Party can fool you with their BS.

    It' not hard at all to save that amount if you live frugally and engage in sensible activities to boost wealth. We scraped up a deposit on a dump of a house and renovated it - working nights and weekends and teaching ourselves building skills by asking questions and reading library books and experimenting. We sold for a profit and did it again. We built two houses with our own four hands, living in with small children in a shed for 5 years. We grew almost everything we ate, made every stitch of clothing and household furnishings - mostly with materials bought from St Vinnies. We made furniture. We bought a car from wreckers and renovated it. We spent holidays and long service leave working on houses and gardens. Never had a proper holiday. Why did we choose that lifestyle? Because the torment we suffered as children made us determined NEVER to be at the mercy of the government, nor branded ''charity cases'' ever again.

    And now greedy, selfish ASSES imply we should suffer for doing all that while those who lived far more comfortable lives get $1 million in handouts - paid for by us. Put a sock in it, Misty!

    You are WRONG about Centrelink. The LAW SAYS they have to pay pensions to people who spend their super, and there's nothing any little tin god in 'your town' can do to prevent the spender getting their pension. You can even give it all away if you do it 5 years before retiring. And the tin gods wouldn't have a clue about the cash people pull out of the bank and hand to their grandkids in $100 notes, then claim they put it through the pokies (which is perfectly legal).

    If you paid attention, you would know that Big Bear openly admits to having been a multi-millionaire, on a very high income, and he spent all his money buying houses for his grandkids and a mega-mansion, and now he cruises the world ON A FULL PENSION while his family pay his bills. My neighbours are in the same category. They inherited millions, but they get not one - but TWO full single pensions, 'cause they built a duplex and pretend to be separated. An acquaintance inherited $500,000 and spent it and her $800,000 of super (she WAS in a high paid job - as was her husband) cruising the world and she's on a full pension with rent assistance, in public housing.

    Maybe before you start your ill-informed rants you should learn a little about life in the real world. And then maybe you'd see why I object so strongly the ALP's 'take from the battler to give to the rich' stinking unfair proposal that is going to make pension eligibility an even bigger farce.
    Misty
    13th Dec 2018
    9:36am
    You are the one who needs to put a sock in it, you are the one who is ranting and raving BIG TIME, OVER AND OVER, WE KNOW THE WORDS OFF BY HEART NOW,I for one am sick of your sob story, IT WAS YOU AND YOUR PARTNER'S CHOICE TO LIVE THE WAY YOU DID, you live with your choices you made.
    Retired Knowall
    13th Dec 2018
    10:37am
    You need to do research before you post your Dribble Misty.
    Anyone can spend their assets (Super, Shares, Bank deposits) anyway they like (Cruises, Overseas Holidays, Expensive Cars, Upgrade their Home etc) and get their assets level below the Pension Limit.
    The only restrictions are associated with the Gifting Rules, you can look that up or get someone to explain them to you.
    Misty
    13th Dec 2018
    12:03pm
    I rang Human Resources and they explained things to me, as far as I am concerned the people who do this are nothing more then cheats, ripping off the system, especially those who claim to be seperated but are not and I was told they should be dobbed in, so OGR you can do the right thing and report your acquaintance for cheating.
    Retired Knowall
    13th Dec 2018
    5:58pm
    They may have tried to explain the issue to you Misty, BUT, you seem too thick to understand. reducing your assets is quite within the rules.
    Cheating is not.
    As for informing Centrelink re people defrauding the system, I've done it many times and no action was taken at any time.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    13th Dec 2018
    8:56pm
    And as far as I'm concerned, Misty, you are a THIEF - stealing $1 million from hard working taxpayers who get NOTHING in retirement BECAUSE THEY ARE HONEST AND RESPONSIBLE.

    My partner and I DID NOT choose to be orphans and deprived and abused in childhood, denied any kind of education or skills training. We did NOT choose to have wages stolen by the State. We did NOT choose to have to suffer health problems as a result of childhood abuse. And we DID NOT choose to have a special needs child - much less to cop $100,000 in bills because a negligent government clerk didn't do his job, or to be denied medical care for a work injury because a negligent employee didn't record it.

    People are ENTITLED to spend their savings however they want - and I'm heartily sick of the greedy thieves who think they have a God-given right to STEAL the savings of others just because the CLAIM they had a hard time.\

    Learn some gratitude and respect. People who had it just as tough as you - or tougher - are now paying your way because they worked harder and went without more.
    And you have the gall to suggest they should sacrifice more, because you IMAGINE they might have earned a good wage. And so what if they did? Why should they be robbed so that people who didn't try as hard can have more than those who spent their lives striving and planning to be self-sufficient?

    As for reporting anyone - like Retired Knowall, I have done, several times, and they've been checked out and passed as doing nothing illegal and retained their pension. Because what they are doing is 100% legal - no matter what you think, Misty. Just like it's legal to spend all your money and claim a pension.
    Misty
    13th Dec 2018
    9:50pm
    You probably couldn't care less OGR but I had a hard upbringing too but I don't carry on about it on every topic LC'S has, and Retired Knowall, you and OG might be interested to know that a married couple pretending to be seperated for Centrelink benefits is not legal and the Fraud Squad is alive and well and still investigating these sort of cases.
    Misty
    13th Dec 2018
    9:53pm
    I am sick of your insults Retired Knowall, if you cannot be civil don't comment on here, I HOPE THE MODERATOR IS CHECKING THESE COMMENTS.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    14th Dec 2018
    9:13am
    Oh, I care about everybody's hard upbringing, Misty. And everybody's hardship in adult life. Unlike you, I DO CARE. But unlike you, I don't expect those who overcame their hardship and worked hard and paid taxes and made massive sacrifices to hand over all the benefits they earned so that people who didn't try as hard can claim ENTITLEMENT to a $1 million handout.

    See, YOU are being well compensated for your 'hardship' - with around $1 million of taxpayer money to support you in old age.

    I, on the other hand, worked my guts out to get over the hardship and I'm being ROBBED of everything I worked for. And YOU support that theft.

    And yes, a married couple pretending to be single is illegal, but who is going to prove two people living next door to each other in a duplex are still married? You think the fraud squad is going to go into their bedrooms every night to see if maybe one of them sneaks over for a quickie occasionally? Get a life, Misty! You really do have a comprehension problem! And we will have a lot more people engaging in all kinds of manipulation - legal or otherwise - to make up for the THEFT that is depriving them of fairness and handing everything to the whinging selfish TAKERS. Because there comes a time when honesty and integrity and doing the right thing is just too DAMNED COSTLY when evil morons are running the nation in a way that rewards being a leaner and punishes anyone who works and takes responsibility for themselves.

    If Labor insists on stealing from SFRs to give more to greedy pensioners, there will be WAY more cheating and manipulation, because way more people are going to be fed up with the unfairness and determined to find a way to balance the scales a bit.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    14th Dec 2018
    9:16am
    And BTW, Misty. If you'd experienced REAL hardship, you wouldn't be now promoting the Labor Party.
    Retired Knowall
    14th Dec 2018
    10:23am
    Maybe you should take time out and read your own posts, most of which are ill informed and some less than civil. If I read an outlandish claim I'll call it out, if you don't like that stop posting dribble.
    Misty
    14th Dec 2018
    10:28am
    You might think you know it all Retired Knowall but a few lessons in manners wouldn't go astray.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    14th Dec 2018
    12:58pm
    It's bad manners to be selfish or greedy, Misty. And it's VERY bad manners to wish unfair hurt on others.
    Misty
    14th Dec 2018
    9:52pm
    I cannot for the life of me fathom why you keep calling me greedy and selfish OGR I don't wish harm on anyone, just because I don't always agree with what you post it is not what your gripe is about but the way you express it, the same thing over and over again.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    15th Dec 2018
    7:06am
    But you base your opinions on ridiculous nonsensical assumptions, Misty, and then presume to ''advise'' me (despite having no clue what you are on about), justifying your politics with nonsense claims that imply that somehow I am to blame for my own situation and there are simple solutions - that your precious Labor Party isn't wrong at all, but I am.

    Do you have any idea how offensive it is for someone like you to tell me I can 'fix' my situation by doing something some IDIOT in the Labor Party office suggested - someone who has NOT THE FAINTEST CLUE ABOUT MY SITUATION, MUCH LESS WHAT THE IMPACT OF TAKING HIS ADVICE WOULD BE? Someone who has a vested interest in PRETENDING to you that my complaints are unfounded - so you'll continue to justify unfairness.

    Do you have any idea how OFFENSIVE it is to suggest that I CHOSE my path in life? That I CHOSE to be an orphan, abused, tormented, deprived... the victim of injustice over and over again? Yes, I CHOSE to work hard and sacrifice to MAKE a better life for myself and my family... which makes it all the more offensive for you to suggest that it's okay for me to now be deprived of that better life so PENSIONERS CAN GET MORE. I did NOT choose the life I had. I chose the only path available to improve it. It certainly was NOT my choice for it to be so hard. But now you say that because I didn't choose to STAY DOWN, I should be ground back into hardship again.

    You also say the same thing over and over again - inviting the same responses. Perhaps if you tried showing understanding and empathy now and again...

    If you went back several months and read my comments, you would see that I championed the pensioner's cause. Ask OG about the way I berated him for his disrespect for the less advantaged. I guess I was foolish enough to think those I defended might show me the same courtesy - and I'm disillusioned by their greed and selfishness.

    We retirees could make a powerful lobby if pensioners stopped thinking the world owes them a living and acknowledged that those of us who worked hard to be self-supporting ought to have the right to benefit fairly from that effort. And we'd have a much healthier society if responsible workers were respected and rewarded and everyone was encouraged to try harder. What your precious Labor Party is doing will destroy us all - because SOMEBODY HAS TO PAY FOR THE HANDOUTS. And if we continue bashing those who pay the bills, there will be NOTHING LEFT to hand out.

    I support fairer taxation of the rich. I support addressing tax avoidance. And yes, those who say there's enough money to go around are right - but it must be taken from the right people, and the Labor Party is attacking battlers to hand to the rich. They are ONLY attacking strugglers who are only just getting by, but doing good for the country. And they are letting the very wealthy keep their ill-gotten gains.
    Misty
    15th Dec 2018
    9:04am
    I never accused you of choosing the life you lived as a child but you can chose the way you live as an adult and not blame others for that, it was your choice not to take holidays, eat out, buy new clothes etc and why do you have to write a novel nearly every time you comment?, we know it off by heart now,
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    15th Dec 2018
    11:37am
    You really are dense and ignorant, Misty. I didn't CHOOSE my life as an adult either. I did took the ONLY road possible to escape the poverty I was born to and give my kids an even break in life. And if you had one ounce of human decency in you, you would concur that doing that does NOT warrant being ground back into hardship while people like you get a $1 million handout at my children's expense. But people who have never been there have no idea what it's like to NOT have any reasonable options to choose from, so they make STUPID ASSUMPTIONS and rant about others making ''choices''. You are as bad as OG, Misty!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    15th Dec 2018
    11:42am
    And ''know it off by heart''? If you even read it once you'd be thoroughly idiotic to think I could even have considered having holidays or new clothes, let alone eating out. When you are paying $100,000 for medical treatment for a child out of one minimum wage, you don't get to even DREAM about such luxuries, let alone CHOOSE whether or not to indulge in them. But I suppose I could have chosen to let my child suffer. Apparently Labor voters would be happy to pay me $1 million in retirement if I'd done that!
    Misty
    15th Dec 2018
    12:52pm
    OGR I don't know anyone earning the minimum wage who could afford to spend $100,000 on medical expenses, everyday living costs, rent, mortgage, fuel, school fees would not leave any over for anything else.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    16th Dec 2018
    5:26pm
    I couldn't, Misty. That's why it took 25 years to pay off the debt. 25 years of growing almost all our food, making our clothing by cutting down castoffs from Vinnies, building furniture, rebuilding a wrecked car, living in a shed or a run-down shack while building or renovating a house to sell for profit so we could knock the debt down a little more. Of course I DID have choices. I could have declared bankruptcy and walked away. My ethics don't permit me to cheat others though, any more than they permit me to support unfairness or lies - which is why I so strongly oppose the Labor Party's disgusting dishonesty and unfairness.

    I am well aware of how little you know, Misty. You advertise your lack of knowledge constantly. I really don't see how it's relevant who YOU do or don't know, though. Unless you are calling me a liar as well as condemning me for making ethical choices.
    Misty
    16th Dec 2018
    5:39pm
    More INSULTS again OGR, DON'T YOU KNOW ANY OTHER WAY TO REPLY TO A COMMENT?
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    16th Dec 2018
    8:38pm
    Not when the comment is insulting, Misty. You continue to insult and offend and defend policies that will decimate my lifestyle. What sort of response do you expect?
    Misty
    16th Dec 2018
    10:37pm
    The only INSULTS ARE COMING FROM YOU OGR, your lifestyle is your responsibility nothing to do with me so don't continue to blame me.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    17th Dec 2018
    10:53am
    You have very odd ideas, Misty. Nobody is blaming you for my lifestyle, but my children pay taxes to fund yours. It's just plain SELFISH for you to endorse measures that demolish mine unfairly. I made responsible, legal choices that were in line with what governments said were good for me and good for the nation. I am helping the economy by NOT taking over $40,000 a year in handouts, after 50 years of working hard and paying tax.

    To agree that I should not be overtaxed and deprived of what I worked for 50 years to achieve, while claiming entitlement to collect a cheque each fortnight and enjoy all kinds of extra benefits, is just plain selfish - and very insulting. If you can't grasp that concept, then I am sorry you are so lacking in basic comprehension.

    Decent people stand for what is fair and respectful to all. No matter what their political preference, they don't condone dishonesty (and the Labor Party is being VERY dishonest about this policy) and they don't condone wrongful deprivation of good people.
    Misty
    17th Dec 2018
    12:00pm
    There you go again OGR calling me names, you say I know nothing about your life well you know nothing about mine either, it is not any one else's fault you choose to invest your money the way you have, you had choices, just the same as everyone else does, as to how they invest their money, and everyone has to live with their choices so stgop calling me selfish and stop with the insulting comments.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    17th Dec 2018
    2:10pm
    Yes Misty, I had choices. And I made choices that BENEFIT people like you. And when politicians threaten unfair hurt to ANYONE who made legal, ethical choices in good faith, I stand up to be counted in opposition. I offer support and kindness to people who are threatened with hurt as a result of wrongs.

    NOBODY should have to live with blatantly unfair consequences of making good, responsible, ethical choices in accordance with the rules of the day. But clearly you ARE selfish - too selfish to care about anyone else. Way too selfish to object to injustice that harms others. It's not hurting you, so why should you care? That is selfish, and no, I won't stop saying so.

    It's not anyone's fault I invested as I did, but it IS the fault of every voter who fails to speak out against wrong doing if investments result in damage purely because of a vile and evil political decision that OUGHT to be blocked. I accepted a degree of commercial risk, because I had no other choice except to manipulate unethically to qualify for a pension - which would impose cost on the nation. I should NOT have to also accept the risk of vile, evil, unfair political policies, and I certainly should not have to accept insulting comments from self-serving people who don't have the common decency to acknowledge wrongs, but condone it because IT DOESN'T HURT THEM.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    17th Dec 2018
    2:40pm
    Misty, I can't help wondering how you would feel if the LNP announced a decision to slash the aged pension by 30% and you noted that would cause you severe hardship, and I and a few other SFRs wrote repeated posts here saying 'that's fine because SFRs are not losing anything"?
    Misty
    17th Dec 2018
    3:29pm
    OGR I would c omplain to the Gov t and my local member but I would not blame and insult other people for my decisions, if I had your sort of money I would have seeked professional advice on the best way to invest and not put all my eggs in one basket, and NO I AM NOT TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO, just saying that is what I would have done.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    17th Dec 2018
    4:13pm
    My sort of money? What sort is that, Misty? A modest home and barely enough savings to cover some anticipated very large future medical and care costs, but not enough to generate a decent income, and zero concessions or benefits.

    I do seek professional advice, as it happens. And I don't put all my eggs in one basket. But professionals are at a loss to suggest solutions. Why do you think the opposition to the policy is so strong among financial advisers, accountants, etc?

    I didn't blame anyone and I didn't insult others. I objected - quite reasonably - to offensive comments justifying the policy and claiming it was acceptable because 'pensioners are exempt'. And then came a tirade accusing me of insulting pensioners, merely because I said that exempting pensioners made the policy far more unfair and justifying a political stunt because it focused solely on SFRs and low income wage-earners was selfish.

    You don't know what you would do, Misty, because you don't have any idea what the consequences are of Shorten's treachery, nor what options do or don't exist. The bottom line is there IS no viable way to avoid devastation of my lifestyle. The only solution anyone can suggest for me is to lose half my savings and claim a pension - and even then I would be deprived of the right to invest profitably in the ONLY viable investment that comes close to matching our investment profile.

    If I had a solution, I would still object to unfairness that hurts others and that is BAD FOR THE NATION. I would continue to point out that Labor is threatening serious harm to the economy with this deceptive treachery - because contrary to what you choose to assume, I am NOT focused solely on myself. I am disturbed that people can't see the harm this policy will do to our society and our economy.

    Regardless, though, I would NEVER condone ANY policy that moved the goal posts unfairly to hurt people who have done no wrong. And I would go out of my way to avoid compounding their hurt or offending a victim. I certainly would NEVER rant about it being their fault because of their lifestyle choices - when nobody could have known what those perfectly ethical and appropriate choices would lead to. I would concur that they were being wronged and offer what support I was able. That's what I would do!
    Misty
    17th Dec 2018
    4:37pm
    Well OGR did I get it wrong?, I thought you said your home was worth $500,000 and your investments $800,000, well most people I know can only dream of ever having that sort of money to invest or homes worth that much, at least not in my town, and these are everyday people with ordinary jobs, shop assistants, mechanics, electricians etc, even on 2 wages my son and his wife would never ammass that sort of money, they are flat out paying the mortgage and car loans and just everyday living costs as well as bringing up 2 small boys.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    17th Dec 2018
    6:44pm
    Ah, and there it is, Misty. Jealousy raises its ugly head again.
    I couldn't save either when I was paying off a mortgage and raising children. Your son will have ample opportunity later, when his children are grown and the house is paid for.

    Anyone could have done what we did. We had far less opportunity, support and help than 99.99% of Australians. No education. No training of any kind. Challenges and obstacles few could even imagine. We did it through hard work. But jealousy requires that it now be all taken away, because most people YOU KNOW didn't choose to do it. Well, if the country is run that way - with Communists stealing everything the ants work for to give to the grasshoppers, it will be a third world country in no time. Then good luck to pensioners.
    Misty
    17th Dec 2018
    7:08pm
    When will you get over this obsession that I and others are jealous of you OGR, I for one couldn't care less how much money, assets you have, could be a multi millionaire for all I care and you don't have to go to school to be educated, there are Libraries where you can learn if school and Tafe were not available to you.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    17th Dec 2018
    9:50pm
    You are like the drunk denying drinking, Misty! The evidence is plain for all to see. And your irrelevant waffle just makes you look dumb. But if you were smart, you'd have what we have. If you were smart, you'd understand why Shorten's policy is such a danger and what his real motive is.

    Here's a hint for free. The surest way to stay poor is to borrow for things that don't increase in value by more than the borrowing cost. Borrowing for cars is dumb. They depreciate way too fast, even in a low interest climate. See, we DID educate ourselves - despite not having the chance of classroom learning, nor TAFE for that matter. It wasn't available to the likes of us, but you wouldn't get that because you are too busy arguing about things you have no idea about and trading on silly assumptions instead of gathering facts.

    Lucky us though. All the abuse and deprivation and injustice made us tough and determined. We resolved NEVER to be dependant again, and no matter what that Shorten scumbag does, we will find a some way to win again. Thankfully, it appears there are quite a few senators with brains, and Scum Shorten will be blocked.

    People with brains understand that when the Commos have destroyed the value of work completely and taken everything away from the ants to give to lazy useless grasshoppers, we'll be a third world country with only the rich elite and begging peasants, and pensions will be a thing of the past. With a bit of luck, you and I won't see it, but your children will. Some of us want better for our offspring and grandchildren. Some of want the opportunity for them to prosper - but then, if they are not smart enough anyway, I guess it stands to reason you would just want smarter people robbed and more living on handouts. The leaners never stop to think about what happens when the money runs out - any more than they think about how to make more. They just wallow in jealousy and hate and try to tell themselves it's not their fault they failed. Must be horrid knowing that people like me - with all the odds against me - can show you up. No wonder you want to see me robbed.
    Misty
    18th Dec 2018
    12:25am
    I do think you have a serious problem OGR, if you carry on with this ranting and raving, accusing people of jealousy and greed, it seems to have taken over your life, you should learn to chill out or your health will suffer.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    18th Dec 2018
    3:38pm
    The problem is all yours Misty. Insane jealousy - and total inability to reason. Sad.

    I have a great life. A big circle of wonderful friends. Loving family. Rewarding hobbies. History of achieving my life goals - and some quite impressive achievements to my credit. Walk on the beach every day. Sit and read on a lovely screened patio overlooking a nature reserve. Doesn't get any better!

    Thank you for your concern about my health, but the only thing threatening my health or well-being is a disgustingly selfish politician telling whopping lies and bribing selfish pensioners like you to support wiping out the benefits of a lifetime of hard work and saving and destroying the economy. Thankfully it appears there are enough people with brains to block the turd. Hopefully, given the improvement in the budget, people will start to wake up that Communism isn't such an appealing option. Robbing the ant to pay the grasshopper to be lazy and useless hasn't worked anywhere. It's a recipe for destruction.

    Try doing something constructive for a change instead of leaning on the public purse and envying achievers. Achieving and taking personal responsibility is very good for health.
    Misty
    18th Dec 2018
    4:55pm
    I have achieved plenty in my life, thank you very much OGR, but unlike you I do not resort to bitter and insulting comments about pensioners and I also paid tax on my earnings for 50 years so I have well and truly contributed to the public purse.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Dec 2018
    5:25pm
    But you are getting all yours back, Misty. You don't get it, do you. I just want FAIRNESS. I'm still paying, and will until I die - but according to greedy Labor supporters I'm not even entitled to keep enough to live as well as a pensioner. I'm supposed to hand over every cent I've ever saved so the likes of you can get a $1 million handout.

    It's the pensioners dishing out the insults - supporting and endorsing theft of everything I worked for. When they STOP being so greedy, I'll stop insulting them. In the meantime, I'll call it like it is. You are selfish - IN THE EXTREME, and very offensive in your nasty remarks. Yes, you DO resort to bitter and insulting comments, Misty. And you invite retort.
    Misty
    19th Dec 2018
    9:22pm
    There you go again OGR, insulting me and other pensioners, change your investments if you are not happy, don't keep blaming others for your choices.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    20th Dec 2018
    8:45am
    It's mind boggling how some people keep on with STUPID assumptions. If I only I had choices, Misty. There ARE NONE if Labor have their way. None, that is, except manipulating to get a pension - like a lot of other unconscionable and dishonest people are doing. And that's the problem. Doing that will hurt everyone - the needy most of all. But instead of appreciating that I am trying to do what BENEFITS pensioners, you abuse me. Weird logic - but they say selfishness destroys brain cells.

    I'm NOT insulting pensioners, Misty. I'm HELPING them. But you (and some others) are so totally self-obsessed and greedy that they aren't satisfied - and won't be until I am left with nothing at all. $1 million dollar gift is not enough for selfish, entitled pensioners. Those who are grateful do deserve respect, and get it. I could never respect anyone so greedy and nasty as to think they had a right to a $1 million gift AND to cheer having those who get nothing robbed of everything they earned.

    Keep deluding yourself. It's the greedy persons way of soothing their conscience I think, because deep down they must know how disgusting their greed is.
    Misty
    20th Dec 2018
    9:47am
    Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z
    Blossom
    12th Dec 2018
    3:28pm
    Migrants should have to bring a certain amount of cash to support themselves so that the Govt. isn't forced to. Working adults should show proof that they are capable of finding employment. International Students have to have Private Health Cover (it is Govt. Law). If they let it expire they have to return to the country from which they came. It should be the same for migrants.
    Blossom
    12th Dec 2018
    3:32pm
    Correction.........That should read working age people
    Tiger
    12th Dec 2018
    5:05pm
    It is high time that the ABC and major industry and prominent economics bodies such as CEDA stopped quoting Liz Allen who appears grossly ignorant on economics matters and cited the work of a far more reputable demographer, Dr Katherine Betts. The latter has been a highly credible and oft cited authority on demographic matters for many years, unlike Liz Allen.

    It would be easy to believe that Liz Allen works for the development industry, not employed at the ANU!
    Jtee
    12th Dec 2018
    9:55pm
    Please tell me how these migrants aren't going to age as well. Talk about a "dog chasing its tail"
    ex PS
    18th Dec 2018
    9:20am
    Unlike the average Australian family these immigrants will probably have three to four children, this will replace their place in the population and actually increase it.
    If the average Australian is only having one or two children, they are either not even replacing themselves or are just replacing themselves and causing population stagnation.
    We also need to consider that in a family of four consisting of two adults and two children, if a child dies, population growth is blocked.

    If you want to look at the negative effects of immigration stagnation just have a look at Japan. They are a nation that is in crises because it has not got the population to sustain its older population.

    I also believe that if the figures are checked it will be found that the average percentage of immigrants unemployed is lower than that of Australians unemployed, considering the bias against immigrants in the workforce, this shows us where the problem actually lies.
    Arisaid
    18th Dec 2018
    7:52pm
    Okay OGR and Misty, enough is enough. Stop it now please.
    Misty
    18th Dec 2018
    8:08pm
    i would be quite happy too but others keep chipping in too, I just wish OGR would not keep on writing reams bout FC and greedy pensioners regardless of what the topic is. I am sure other people commenting here have had their ups and downs in life too but they do not keep writing a short story about it with every comment they make.
    Arisaid
    18th Dec 2018
    9:37pm
    Misty you are still doing it!!
    ENOUGH!
    Misty
    18th Dec 2018
    9:48pm
    You don't have to read these comments Arisaid if they offend you.
    Misty
    18th Dec 2018
    9:50pm
    Arisaid are you the moderator checking these posts, telling people they can and can't comment?.
    Arisaid
    18th Dec 2018
    9:59pm
    No Misty I'm not the moderator but way over 200 comments is quite excessive on the one topic. So you can pick on me now.
    Misty
    18th Dec 2018
    10:22pm
    I am not picking on anyone but I can't stand to see honest pensioners as well as myself insulted and anyway I am sure other people, one in particular, have posted just as many comments. I am also not the one who started this topic, and repeats it, regardless of what the main topic is.
    Misty
    18th Dec 2018
    10:24pm
    But if it pleases you Arisaid I will keep quiet, at least for now.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Dec 2018
    5:32pm
    Don't hold your breath, Arisaid. I make the smallest mention anywhere of franking credits and Misty goes off again endorsing and cheering the demotion of my lifestyle and claiming it's perfectly okay because 'it doesn't affect anyone she knows' or 'a lot of people aren't affected'.

    Misty, when you stop abusing me by cheering a policy that will wipe out everything I have worked for 50 years, I'll stop commenting in ways that might offend you. Until then... if the cap fits, wear it! Sadly, though, I don't think you are even capable of understanding just how cruel and vicious you are.
    Misty
    19th Dec 2018
    10:57pm
    Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    20th Dec 2018
    7:58am
    Yes, Misty. And that's why I don't accept that YOUR breed of pensioners is entitled to respect. You show NONE.
    Misty
    20th Dec 2018
    9:44am
    Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z
    michellemartin
    20th Dec 2018
    10:54pm
    I was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease 3 year ago at the age of 69. For several months I had noticed tremors in my right hand and the shaking of my right foot when sitting, as the disease progressed i totally lost balance. Neurologist had me walk down the hall and said I didn't swing my right arm. I had never noticed! I was in denial for a while as there is no history in my family. I used amantadine, Carbidopa/levodopa and physical therapy to strenghten muscles all failed. In 2016 a friend suggested Natural Herbal Gardens who have successful herbal treatment for Parkinson's disease, i read a lot of positive reviews from patients who used the treatment and i immediately started on it. I had great relief with this herbal treatment. I walk very much better now, no case of shortness of tremors or Anxiety since treatment. Visit Natural Herbal Gardens website ww w. naturalherbalgardens. com. This Parkinson's treatment is a miracle!!
    Misty
    20th Dec 2018
    11:17pm
    Thanks for that info, hope you keep improving.


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