3rd Jul 2018
Will photos for age pensioners soon become compulsory?
Author: Janelle Ward
Will photos for age pensioners soon become compulsory?

Age pensioners may soon be required to have their faces scanned and analysed before they can access payments.

Under a Federal Government plan for Australia to become a world leader in digital government, those seeking to access a range of services – including the Age Pension, Medicare and online taxation – will need to take a photo and create a myGov ID. This will then be checked against driver’s licences and passports to confirm their identity.

The strategy is part of a pilot security program that is set to begin in October.

The trial will allow 100,000 people to apply for a tax file number (TFN) online. TFN applicants currently have to fill out a form – obtained either online or from a post office – and take it to a post office where their identification is verified.

Explaining the pilot program, Human Services Minister Michael Keenan says the TFN application process can take up to a month to complete, whereas the pilot will reduce that time to a single day – without applicants having to leave home.

The system is to be implemented on a voluntary basis but those who choose not to take part will be unable to access government services online. Instead, they will have to queue up at Centrelink to access these services.

Mr Keenan says he hopes the plan will see Australia become a world leader in ‘digital government’ by 2025.

However, IT experts are concerned about privacy and security, including that people could be ‘tracked’ through security cameras.

IT security expert Troy Hunt, who runs the website Have I been pwned? told news.com.au that a biometric system wasn’t without its faults.

“One of the problems is we want to be able to access things in a secure fashion, but passwords aren’t really great for doing that because a lot of us tend to use the same one for everything,” he said.

“Biometrics can be better in this aspect, but on the flip side, it is information that can’t really be changed if there is a security breach.”

Mr Hunt also raised the possibility that such a database – built with biometric data including fingerprints, iris scans and face photos – could be abused and used for reasons other than its intended purpose, such as tracking welfare recipients.

“What we want to see from the Australian Government is transparency about how this system is being used and where the information is going,” he said.

“They need to convince us that we can be confident in this system and trust them [with] this kind of data.”

Mr Keenan said digitisation would improve convenience and efficiency and deliver significant cost savings.

Can you see advantages in the pilot program? Would you be concerned about the security of the data?

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    COMMENTS

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    Noodles
    3rd Jul 2018
    10:16am
    I read somewhere that in around 100 countries residents have to have an Identity Card..maybe we should have got the Australia Card when it was first mooted. I believe a lot of rorting goes on re the Medicare card. Perhaps a photo should be on it.

    Eventually we will all have to have some photographic identification on us at all times.
    Old Geezer
    3rd Jul 2018
    10:46am
    It is already used when we enter or leave countries now so what is the problem?
    Cowboy Jim
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:00am
    Cannot see a problem either, in my place of birth I had an ID card from age 16, of course in those days it was a photo with an official stamp over it, a bit like the passports used to be.
    A few years back I got a new European passport, all the biometrics were taken as well as my 10 fingerprints and they are embedded in the chip. Never had to do that with the Aussie passport, post office took the photo and no fingerprints.
    Often wondered why I can vote in this country without ID - I could vote on behalf of people I know are on overseas holidays and no one would be the wiser. All oldies have an ID card already: if not a driver's permit then you have a Photo Card (as it is called in NSW). Every state is offering them thru the vehicle licensing offices. Just renewed mine - lasts 10 years and is free for age pensioners.
    Old Geezer
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:05am
    Even with our Aussie passports a machine looks at your face and gives you the green light to enter the country.
    jackie
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:14am
    Finger print or DNA checks would wipe out crime. They can’t be replicated like passports and drivers licecences are.
    marls
    3rd Jul 2018
    12:47pm
    jackie
    professional criminal wear gloves
    Aussie
    3rd Jul 2018
    12:54pm
    Sorry jackie they wear socks not gloves ..... leather and other materials still leave residual marks where ever you touch except cotton ..... so socks is the answer for the next bank job je je je je
    Triss
    3rd Jul 2018
    2:11pm
    The administration of those things is so lacksadaisical what would happen if your ID card was lost or stolen? How long would it take to replace, 5 days, 10 days? During that time there would be many services denied to the card holder.
    Also, once we’re saddled with “an ID card”, we'll be saddled with a lot of power puppets and a wide range of services [restaurants, prospective employers, police, telephone bill payments, petrol stations, etc] will demand access to that card, with all its intimate personal details, for identity purposes.
    Rae
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:18pm
    Yes Triss. A Corporate State is growing quickly around us now.
    Noodles
    4th Jul 2018
    11:07am
    Not everyone "has" a passport you know OG.

    I would like to see some sort of card which we carry at all times which has everything on it. Do away with all other cards if possible.
    Wstaton
    9th Jul 2018
    9:26pm
    The difference is Old Geezer is if you do not want your photo taken then you have the option of not going overseas. Not quite the same as being forced on you with the punishment of losing your benefits which you need.
    Lorrainehk
    3rd Jul 2018
    10:53am
    Noodles. Agree entirely. “World leader” not likely. We have lived with an ID Card in Hong Kong for many years. Everyone over 12 years of age has to have a card with photograph, finger prints and signature. No need for any other card or tax file number. We just use our finger print and card to go through the border, open a bank account, get a job, go to the doctor, go to a bar, attached to driver,s licence, enrol in a school, vote, get senior or age discounts and many more Police can ask to see your identity card anywhere, anytime

    It certainly makes things easier for everyone. No stupid 100 points system like here

    Now to enter a pub in Qld Drink Safe Areas, patrons must be photographed and have ID scanned. Why shouldn’t people accessing public money/ benefits have a proper ID?
    Rosret
    3rd Jul 2018
    2:37pm
    So this would be Chinese Hong Kong?
    Rae
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:20pm
    Have you ever received those rewards The Communist Party give out for being a Good Citizen?
    Noodles
    4th Jul 2018
    11:09am
    It will definitely happen here Lorrainehk....the up and coming generations are more savvy that us old farts and are willing to move with the times.

    I sometimes think some people would like to be still drivng a horse and buggy!
    TREBOR
    4th Jul 2018
    12:33pm
    Hero Of the Australian Socialist Republic Medal for keeping a clean grass verge?

    People's Protection Medal for dobbing in a dole bludger?
    TREBOR
    4th Jul 2018
    1:40pm
    Great Patriotic War Medal with gold clasp for catching one thousand cockroaches?
    Old Geezer
    3rd Jul 2018
    10:56am
    I wonder how many people they will pick up that are receiving 2, 3 or more pensions?
    Cowboy Jim
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:02am
    You might have hit the nail right on the head, OG.
    Knows-a-lot
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:56am
    There wouldn't be enough scammers to justify it.
    Old Geezer
    3rd Jul 2018
    12:52pm
    Ha ha ever looked at the notices for your local court and seen how many cases involve welfare fraud?
    Rae
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:23pm
    Or even pick up the missing people that providers create to get more tax dollars from the Government. Apparently not just the customers are scamming. When the providers go feral they are ripping off millions and the Government covers it up to protect themselves.

    Photo ID would put an end to that sort of fraud.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    10:52pm
    'ghosting' it used to be called when the wharfies clocked a mate on the night shift who wasn't there.

    Now it seems it's the exclusive province of the 'right' and their capitalist fanatic fiend friends.....

    There are good capitalists and there are bad capitalists - let us hop that the only good capitalist will be a dead one.... but if these kinds of 'entrepreneurs' keep on - that's where it will end.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:16am
    I see pros and cons - the pros are that certain types will not be able to get two payments by using each other's cousin's names etc, and it will be nigh impossible for Colonel cCLink employees to set up bogus accounts, as has occurred in the past.

    The cons are that no government has yet proven it can be trusted with personal information, and in the event the system is hacked, who is to say that photos and such won't be used for false ID purposes?

    It is said that control over access to information gives control over a society .... so is this a good thing? We already have medical records going back to childhood on record... I know because I was admitted to hospital with chest pains once, and the (Indian) doctor asked me if I had once lived at the street where I grew up fifty plus years before - a street that had its name changed while I was living there.

    How far can we trust government, given that it feels it has an Entitlement ™ to sell off information for a few miserable dollars.... the lure of filthy lucre over honour and integrity.

    I'll now view the comments below.
    Old Geezer
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:21am
    99.9% of our information is already available to those who wish to do mischief with it so the horse has already bolted on security of information.
    Wstaton
    9th Jul 2018
    9:49pm
    YES og and we have let it happen.

    3rd Jul 2018
    11:53am
    Excellent system
    Will improve efficiency and elimeite rorting
    Knows-a-lot
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:58am
    Rubbish. The Right is rorting 'legally' through tax minimization.
    KSS
    3rd Jul 2018
    1:05pm
    And not a single 'Leftie' ever minimises their tax, right Knows-a-lot including Mr Shorten?
    GrayComputing
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:03pm
    The UK police say photo recognition has 30% false POSTIVES. I hope they miss read your face at Centrelink and put you in the hot seat.
    But of course you as youngish rich web troll have never been to Centrelink have you?
    Other wise you would be singing a very different tune.
    Anonymous
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:35pm
    only rorters need fear the technology GrayComputing.
    Noodles
    5th Jul 2018
    9:34am
    tax minimisation is 'not' a crime and is quite legal and the majority of taxpayers would use it..has nothing to do with their political views.
    Knows-a-lot
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:55am
    Just typical of these Lieberal Party fascists. Big Brother is watching you...
    KSS
    3rd Jul 2018
    1:07pm
    'Big Brother' watches you everytime you walk down your local high street! And you don't have to be in a right wing council area either!
    niemakawa
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:26pm
    KSS yes and with smart phones tv's etc which have cameras the "masters" can see you without you knowing. Cover your camera when not in use. Big Brother indeed.
    arbee
    3rd Jul 2018
    8:56pm
    You keep on about Liberals being fascists, that's rich coming from someone whose every comment stinks of communism.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    10:55pm
    Not possible, arbee - KAL is not advocating any controlled state or any communal controlled economic activity ... therefore cannot be a communist.

    Perhaps you need to outline for us what your definition of a 'communist' is...... not too hard a question?

    Let me help - it's anyone who opposes 'city hall' and says there are bad things happening in government.... commonly that type is called a dissident - not a good communist.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    10:56pm
    KSS is right - Rafe - refrain from personal insult and abuse... it doesn't help the case you haven't presented in any way.....
    TREBOR
    4th Jul 2018
    12:36pm
    Wait until the Great Socialist Brotherhood/Sisterhood (sorry - got that back to front - that's SISTERHOOD/brotherhood) gets hold of it... they'll be loving that the idea was pushed by their 'opposition', so they bear no responsibility for expanding it into an instrument of tight state control.
    Wstaton
    9th Jul 2018
    9:57pm
    Ahh! Trebor It's because he mentioned the Liberals and anyone who is not a liberal must be a communist.
    Gammer
    3rd Jul 2018
    12:08pm
    Yes, we should all have been issued with an Australian Identity Card many years ago... I don’t travel so no passport but I am still driving so photographic evidence of my ID is on that. What happens when/if I lose my licence? Only those with something to hide would eschew photographic ID cards, I feel.
    Old Geezer
    3rd Jul 2018
    12:13pm
    No licence you get issued with an ID instead.
    Nerk
    3rd Jul 2018
    12:27pm
    This government is slowly gathering as much information as they can about us.

    The other day I renewed my rego and the receptionist asked for my phone number and email address, I told her I didn't have either, what do they want it for?
    Police are profiling people, a friend of mine was pulled over and they asked which country was he born in, what has a country of origin have to do with a traffic stop.
    All mobile phones are a personal beacon, which will lead to who all friends are, when you are with them, your location, so don't sit around grizzling about what they know about you cause they only have to put all of this together in a main computer.
    Cowboy Jim
    3rd Jul 2018
    12:39pm
    You can always switch your phone off when not in use, then they won't know your location. I do not need to be wired all the time, had fun when we did not have a mobile.
    Country of origin is no secret as your birthplace is printed in your passport. If you want to do everything on a cell phone, including banking you have put up with the negatives as well. I still use the ATM and pay my bills at the post office.
    Old Geezer
    3rd Jul 2018
    12:56pm
    Just turn off your data on your phone and it can't then tell anyone your location. I have my data turned off simply because every shop I go into wants a survey done if my data is on.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:00pm
    Phones without 'data' connected check in to the local tower on a regular basis...

    I first noticed that when I heard a blurp.de..de.de..blurp noise on my TV when it was quiet outside...

    It's just the mobile checking in to the tower....

    FYI - a triangulation of towers can give a close proximity to the phone.. within a block... more precisely because each separate tower has a strength reading... so pretty damned close to where you are.

    Doesn't worry me - I don't do the Night Stalker thing and if I go missing, they can trace me as long as I've got my phone on me.
    Lookfar
    3rd Jul 2018
    12:36pm
    In the who-dun-it's, your hand is chopped off, skinned, the skin dipped in some preservative then slipped over the thief's hand, card is easily photoshopped, you've not only lost all your possessions but your hand also. What to do? measure brainwaves? but that would exclude the politicians.. perhaps they could have their tongues digitalised:)
    Anonymous
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:33pm
    what are you lefties afraid of ?
    if you dont rort the system youre fine. Something to hide old boy ?
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:00pm
    ... having his hand chopped off.....
    Triss
    3rd Jul 2018
    12:40pm
    Sorry, I seem to think differently from most people here. I think that taking one section of the community and treating them differently is discrimination and when we accept it without arguing then the next step is to microchip us like cats and dogs. Why are we being singled out? Do ex politicians, judges, bureaucrats, nurses, teachers etc have to be photographed before they can get a pension? It's discrimination of the worst kind.
    Old Geezer
    3rd Jul 2018
    12:51pm
    Unfortunately being on welfare comes at a price now.
    Lookfar
    3rd Jul 2018
    12:55pm
    I agree with you Triss, it is also the thin edge of the wedge for total intrusiveness. One has to wonder where the money is, - could not corrupt Govt oficials sell all the data to google etc so as to allow more unwanted intrusion by adverisers or criminals.
    Old Geezer
    3rd Jul 2018
    12:59pm
    Your identity was given away the day your parents received yo birth certificate. Your identity has since been traded many times by all sorts of people all around the world. Each time it is traded more information about you is also traded. Ever wondered where someone get a certain piece of information about you?
    Rae
    3rd Jul 2018
    1:09pm
    Triss you keep confusing Superannuation with Welfare. Superannuation income is completely different and is paid from a Superannuation Fund not from Centrelink.

    All the State Superannuation Funds are fully funded. The Federal Fund isn't but the pension is taxed and comes from the Future Fund now.

    Centrelink has never ever paid public servants their superannuation income.
    Triss
    3rd Jul 2018
    2:19pm
    It's the same pocket with a different name, Rae. Punblic servants' pension scheme is funded by the taxpayer.
    Sundays
    3rd Jul 2018
    2:50pm
    Triss, everyone including public servants has to provide photo ID before any pension from Super is paid. Also, public servants including police officers, nurses, teachers, defence force personnel and clerical workers have to contribute a mandatory percentage of after tax dollars into their scheme. They are alslo taxpayers
    Triss
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:32pm
    Yes they are taxpayers, Sundays, but so are the folk who don't have a pension by right like public servants.
    Rae
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:35pm
    You can look it up yourself. This idea you have is propaganda from the far right and was a useful filled by the Tele and such as Bolt years ago. It has never been true.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:05pm
    *rolls eyes* that's because public servants get a defined benefit out of consolidated revenue.... if they have been part-timers etc, and don't get enough to pay their retirement, they can access Pension or part-pension through Centrelink according to the rules, just like anyone else.

    The isolation of the Future Fund was an act of theft, and one way of removing any possibility of a negative impact on politician etc retirement funding in the event they ruin the country - which they are set fair to do.. and soon.

    If they wreck the country, they will be the lords of the land.. the only ones with a guaranteed income far above that of the starving masses....

    That is why that funding needs to be returned here and politicians put under the same burden of achieving retirement funding as everyone else..... so they will act responsibly on behalf of the nation as a whole - not just of themselves and their mates, in the full knowledge that any destruction wrought will not impact on them.
    Rae
    4th Jul 2018
    8:07am
    Maybe Federal Public Servants TREBOR but the State Superannuation Funds are all Funded. I've read the reports while researching this years ago now. It's propaganda. Defined benefits were a unit purchase deal and unless workers actually bought the units with after tax dollars they couldn't get the pension. The employer put in 6% and for those who now get 9% the public servants were not on quite as good a wicket. In fact some of them worked a couple of decades for less than their colleagues getting accumulation Fund super paid to them at the 9%.

    With each pay rise or promotion thousands of extra after tax dollars had to be paid in to cover purchasing extra units needed. It was an extremely complex and expensive means of buying a pension. Very few actually got to the end or claimed a full pension from superannuation because of the cost involved. Units were abandoned if workers couldn't afford to hand over up to 30% of after tax income towards the end to pay for the units.

    Floss should research this before continuing with the propaganda about it being such a fabulous deal. It was compulsory as well from way back in the 50s or so.

    NSW State Super is most definitely a funded pension and tax is not paid as with a federal pension deal.
    Triss
    4th Jul 2018
    8:08am
    What I don't understand, Trebor, or perhaps I do, is that when Costello created this fund in 2006 he transferred about $30 billion into it [money that belonged to all Australians] which were the proceeds from the T3 sale and Telstra shares held by the Government [again, our money]. As you say, pollies', judges', etc pensions are secured so now and government has run up a huge debt so the propaganda goes out that OAPs are a burden because funds that could have covered their pensions have been whisked away.
    Rae
    4th Jul 2018
    8:14am
    So sorry Floss I mean to say Triss.

    The big advantage for the very few who got to the end was a guaranteed pension that also paid out to a surviving spouse.

    Hardly anyone got there though and it was closed off around the mid 1980s when the financial Industry realised they could have the same deal without the responsibility and everyone after had the current accumulation type fund.
    Rae
    4th Jul 2018
    8:19am
    Triss you may be right about Federal Public Servants but all State public Servants are covered by their Superannuation Fund and all are fully funded according to the reports.

    The Future Fund has nothing to do with your local nurse, firefighter or teacher who lives down the road.

    I haven't researched the Future Fund and I gather it is for politicians, Top Public Servants, like the latest IPA ring in and Judges.

    OF course they look after themselves don't they.

    You are right to raise questions about the Future Fund but don't dump your local servant class in there with the top dogs.
    Triss
    4th Jul 2018
    10:23am
    Local servant class undumped.
    TREBOR
    4th Jul 2018
    12:48pm
    Ah, yes, Rae.. an old school friend is on a State pension from nursing.. he opted to remain with the old system rather than take a payout that would have removed his pension from the system, and reinstalled him under the new one (whatever was involved in that).

    You can bet the State's bottom dollar it would have been a cost saving measure.... forget all about the transfer of funds within an economy being its mainstay, so chop away are earned entitlements.

    Costalot transferred $130 BILLION into that fund - Grand Theft Canberra it's called - and he is now paid to manage it while drawing his overinflated parliamentary super from it at the same time.

    As I said - that means that they can crash this nation's economy overnight and leave everyone eating dog food, but they will never lose a cent no matter what disasters they visit upon us, so they have absolutely no need to be accountable to us, the voting public, in any way.

    Nothing corrupt about it at all.. NEV-AH! Hence my references to El Grande Republica da San Austrador and its creation by Don Juan Huarte and Don Pedro Castella.

    In the event of the anticipated Great Global Crash - only the very well off and the politicians with their insulated and isolated cash for life will have any money at all... the rest will be fighting the dogs for scraps of decaying dead people in the gutters.... and a New Ruling Class of absolute feudal lords will arise - them and their mates, and money will speak like a loudspeaker and will dictate every move of every person.

    Unfortunately this is a very real probability - not just some future sci-fi fantasy.

    In the event that a popular revolt takes place here, and the government and its lackeys are overthrown by 'people power', they can simply vanish Offshore and live off their stolen $130Bn... good work if you can get it.

    Nothing corrupt about it at all.. nah...
    KB
    3rd Jul 2018
    12:57pm
    Not all people like me have passports and a driver license I agree with some kind of photo.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:08pm
    I have that and a few other photo IDs including a Green Pass with photo for the Sydney Olympics ... doesn't worry me in the least... apart from the concern that government might abuse possession of that information and sell it to the highest bidder... and that bidder might do something with it I do not approve of.
    Lookfar
    3rd Jul 2018
    12:58pm
    OG, it has been exclusively proved on this list that pensions are an entitlement, not welfare, what is in it for you to constantly fly in the face of reality on that issue?
    Old Geezer
    3rd Jul 2018
    1:01pm
    The OAP is not an entitlement but is welfare given to those who have no other means of support. That is reality everything else is just fluffy stuff to make people feel good about it.
    Rae
    3rd Jul 2018
    1:12pm
    I'm afraid Og is correct. It was an entitlement until we let Mr Fraser take control of our elected Government and proceed to steal all the Welfare Fund away. In hindsight we should have rioted then and there and saved the Australian Middle Class but it's probably far too late now.

    Putting all those bankers and lawyers in charge for the past few decades has ruined any semblance of equality.
    inextratime
    3rd Jul 2018
    2:47pm
    OG - You can call it whatever you like and I know it makes you feel nice and cosy when you call it welfare as it highlights that some people rely on it but you don't. Well done ! But officially its called a pension and in the definition of the word "pension" there is no mention or reference to welfare. But keep it up if it makes you feel better.
    Cowboy Jim
    3rd Jul 2018
    3:22pm
    OG can look it his way. For me my Age Pension is an entitlement. In the early 70s my old country and Australia worked out a social security agreement where Australia would pay me the age pension as from 65 years of age and I was advised by my previous country's fund to stop paying in as Australia would be responsible for my pension since I migrated and changed citizenship.
    Just because Hawke/Keating followed Fraser in trashing the fund makes no difference to me. You can call it welfare - I DO NOT.
    Triss
    3rd Jul 2018
    3:47pm
    Lookfar is right, OAP was passed by parliament as an entitlement the fact that some "good 'ole boys" went into a backroom and decided to call it something else [politicians' piggy bank, for eg] does not change the fact that it was a definite, clear-cut, unambiguous entitlement and therefore is still an entitlement.
    Triss
    3rd Jul 2018
    3:53pm
    OG, as I keep telling you, do the research, Dozens of ex pollies who must have run out of whatever tiny amount of super they had twenty or thirty years ago when they left parliament are still on the taxpayers' funds. They now will have no other means of support so, in your words, they are welfare recipients. Get at them first...even though they are not as sweet natured and easy going as OAPs.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:08pm
    Off the high horse on Pension RIGHT, OG.. everybody else - just ignore the old fool.
    Old Geezer
    4th Jul 2018
    11:27am
    Looks like people just like to kid themselves so they feel warm and fuzzy inside.
    TREBOR
    4th Jul 2018
    12:50pm
    ....and you, sir, are a prime example.
    Charlie
    3rd Jul 2018
    1:04pm
    Government services? what government services will I need at Centrelink to que up for?... Since I went on age pension I have had no need to go to Centrelink.

    Photo ID? Where I live, some people don't even like a number on the front fence for the postman.

    I bet they end up with a system that's easy to scam electronically. So instead of scammers in Australia to catch, they will invite scammers from all over the world.
    KSS
    3rd Jul 2018
    1:11pm
    Sorry to disillusion you Charlie, International scammers are already here!
    Charlie
    3rd Jul 2018
    6:04pm
    Well they will have to wait their turn, Centrelink already owes people
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:11pm
    Centrelink might require you to do it all again in order to get you into the system fully.

    Do NOT trust any government initiative....

    "Initial reports from aerial recon suggest that the opposition will be a few battered VC units seeking to rebuild, and possibly a small attachment of wounded and sick NVA...."

    "In other words - you have no FN idea what we're walking into....?"
    niemakawa
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:14pm
    KSS yes and with an open invitation.
    Lookfar
    3rd Jul 2018
    1:08pm
    No OG, every working Australian has been paying into a special fund set up in the constitution to pay ou retirement money since Federation, that the Politicians literally stole that money is not very fluffy, - reprehensible, dastardly, evil, yes, fluffy no.
    KSS
    3rd Jul 2018
    1:15pm
    Move on Lookfar. There have been many, many changes to the law since then.

    The only entitlement is the entitlement make an application. All else is welfare since not everyone will receive the pension or even the same amount as the person next in line if they do.
    Old Geezer
    3rd Jul 2018
    1:22pm
    We have since moved into another century and all that stuff is now history if it ever existed. We now have an OAP that is welfare.
    Old Geezer
    3rd Jul 2018
    1:27pm
    OAP should be renamed Seniors Welfare Payment to stop all the confusion about what it is.
    Triss
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:35pm
    No it shouldn't, OG, get the chip off your shoulder.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:13pm
    History or not - the source and flow of the river remain the same as do the entitlements of those downstream....

    Get over it OG - your position is ancient history and it is way past time to move on.
    sunnyOz
    3rd Jul 2018
    1:23pm
    Bloody hell! - there goes the facelift, botox, nose job, eyebrow tint, implants, neck lift and lip fillers I had planned to get!
    Dot
    3rd Jul 2018
    3:45pm
    I'm contemplating take an overdose sometime this year while I can still afford it.
    Triss
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:36pm
    Good one, SunnyOz, I needed a laugh.
    SuziJ
    3rd Jul 2018
    1:27pm
    Why not go into the Centrelink office and they take the photo and attach it to our profile. It's just like going to the motor registry to renew your drivers licence. It'll be cheaper in the long run to investigate how the driver licence photos are taken and stored and use one of those systems rather than asking us to do it for them?
    Lookfar
    3rd Jul 2018
    1:39pm
    Actually KSS and OG, the Constitution can only be changed by a referendum, that provision was not subjected to a refendum, in neither this nor last century.
    It is true that foolish or greedy politicians have been riding roghshod over our rights for decades, illegally, but if the high court is asked to give judgement, as it did just recently on section 44, where a number of politicians were forced to resign, suddenly all the wink wink don't tell the proles rubbish disappears - and rich men lost their jobs, right left and centre.
    All it takes is for the issue to be put before the High Court, then the ruling is on the original wording, no ifs, buts, or maybes.
    Tough titties guys, that is just how it is.
    Old Geezer
    3rd Jul 2018
    1:48pm
    Unfortunately it has nothing to do with our constitution so the High Court cannot rule on it.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    7:23pm
    Diverting the flow of a river to a holding dam in no way takes away from it the duty of providing water downstream where it is needed.

    Those irrigators downstream didn't pay for a lifetime licence to have the water diverted to other uses and puny excuses given by changing its name from Licenced Irrigation Water to Consolidated Flow don't (wait for it) wash....

    Now toddle on and get on to the subject matter, boys.

    Pension is an unassailable Right.
    Lescol
    3rd Jul 2018
    1:40pm
    I think it laughtable that Australia thinks its could become a world leader in ‘digital government’ by 3025. They haven't yet mastered the basics!! Read of the Hall family https://chn.ge/2MCLL0E .... and this is happening NOW because some paper work was lost by the government and so we're doomed!! It really sickens me. cheers
    Cowboy Jim
    3rd Jul 2018
    3:26pm
    I do not worry about anything happening in 3025, do you Lescol?
    Anonymous
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:29pm
    3025, love to be there to see if it is true, methuselah here I come, love to beat the record, 969 years just a mere drop in the ocean, lescol hope to meet you there.
    niemakawa
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:33pm
    Maybe Lescol is a time traveller!!
    Rae
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:49pm
    I agree. The computer systems are badly designed. Paying bribes to contractors and expecting kickbacks is a dead set way to get a lousy deal over the line. At a certain point there is no integrity left at all.
    TREBOR
    4th Jul 2018
    1:49pm
    Australia has long been the testing ground for every radical social idea - how else explain the accumulating chaos wrought by successive policy thrust?

    Every mad scientist idea is tested here - multi-culturalism, assimilation, chop state pensions, have everything run by 'private enterprise', test a dole card on the Slaves - sorry Aboriginals, put in affirmative action, gay 'rights', steal licenced firearms by a back door approach (same as the ID card - a vote of the people rejected the state confiscating licenced firearms, so The Guv'nah did it via the back door of 'domestic violence requiring no proof - you vassals of the state will do as you're told or we'll do it for you!!)... you name it - every cockamamee idea that any social science jerk has come up with in the past fifty years has had a trial run here..... and all have had devastating consequences....
    Lookfar
    3rd Jul 2018
    2:04pm
    OG, of course it is part of the constitution, section 34, or 1 to 6, I can't recall nor would I waste time on it for you, reading it is enough, who told you it isn't? Why do you say it isn't? just to try and wriggle out of being wrong so many many times? - You'r a big boy now, just admit you were wrong, thank me for helping you, and move on.
    Our Founding Fathers were a lot wiser than many people realise.
    The banks tried to do the same thing, - evolve a 'culture' of ripping off their Customers, but they too have been caught out.
    The Rule of Law does not serve the rich and powerful, but it is still there, just, ho ho, 'papered over' until the paper is removed.
    Rae
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:56pm
    Yes roll on a decent Attorney General who is a stickler for Constitutional Law and fairness.
    niemakawa
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:57pm
    Rae, you will be rolling ( and a rockin)in your grave before that happens.
    Jim
    3rd Jul 2018
    7:40pm
    Just having a look at the constitution, I can't find your reference in section 34, but I can find a reference in section 51 of the constitution which stated originally that everyone has the right to not live in poverty, the original document goes back to 1906, the document stated that anyone who needed assistance would be given an allowance of £51 per year providing that their income and assets were less than £340 which included any property, there was a referendum in 1946 which established that the federal government was responsible for pensions and healthcare for everyone which also lncluded dental health, there has never been a reference to the pension being welfare nor has there been a reference to it not being welfare, so I am just as confused as ever!
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:15pm
    No confusion there, Jim - the Entitlement is there and is is indexed.

    Discussion of Pension as a Right can now cease, since it is and remains an unassailable right.
    Cranky
    3rd Jul 2018
    2:12pm
    What it hell s going on in our country they want to remove gender etc from our driver's licenses and now they are thinking about having old aged pensioner's have photos before being paid the pension. Where will it end - Max J
    Rae
    3rd Jul 2018
    6:02pm
    They will need the photo to go on the Welfare Card I suppose. Serco and whoever get's the kickbacks from this end won't give that taxpayer money up. It's worth billions.

    What is going on is the outright theft of our hard earned taxes by Corporate Raiders both home grown and foreign and it's been going on since around 1970.

    Selling taxpayer funded assets and then taxing more to built yet more assets to sell is an outstanding achievement. Once the private sector had to fund itself. It was called Capital. Now we the taxpayers fund them and we are called mugs and freeloaders and leaners.

    Talk about newspeak happening.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:17pm
    They can remove 'gender' from my licence but I still look like a bloke - Far Chem - (that's the Chemistry Faculty at the other end of the campus).....
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:18pm
    "Selling taxpayer funded assets and then taxing more to built yet more assets to sell is an outstanding achievement. Once the private sector had to fund itself. It was called Capital. Now we the taxpayers fund them and we are called mugs and freeloaders and leaners."

    That is a brilliant summation, Rae.
    Triss
    4th Jul 2018
    10:30am
    That is so true, Rae.
    Noodles
    7th Jul 2018
    10:11am
    Maybe replace the words "female/male" with the word "guess"!
    Rosret
    3rd Jul 2018
    2:34pm
    I don't think Australia should be a world leader in digital government. We have so many breaches of security. The Census was a joke. Its easy to power ahead with program algorithms the hard part is checking the repercussions.
    The government seem very cavalier with our data. Once they have set up the health app and linked it up to Centrelink they basically have your life on a platter.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:19pm
    HSC papers scattered on the roadside.... you name it....

    Wouldn't trust the government to handle the rolls of toilet paper for changing ...
    patti
    3rd Jul 2018
    2:38pm
    I do have concerns about privacy issues, and security, of accessing the MyGov centre in this way. Also, my internet service is patchy, and there will be times when I cannot get through on the internet. I should not have to go to a Centrelink office in that case. Should be able to access someone via phone. I don't mind a photo going on my pension card, although there is already one on my drivers licence. Why do I get the feeling that we are moving towards a society where we are tightly controlled??
    Cowboy Jim
    3rd Jul 2018
    3:30pm
    A photo on the pension card is a good idea; how many times is a pension card used by someone else for public transport etc? Now the card is issued for 2 years it is more cost effective to have a photo on it. Just issued it with a space left for the local post office to verify it with a photo and stamp. Simple really.
    Noodles
    5th Jul 2018
    9:39am
    I just do not understand why people are so worried about their privacy.

    So they know all about you...so what. Could someone please give me an example of what could happen to them because the government knows all their business !!
    Wstaton
    9th Jul 2018
    10:26pm
    It depends who provides the photo. You our a government agency.

    Licence photo's (in Victoria at least) are provided by you and are useless for facial recognition purposes.

    If they are taken by a government agency then it will be a digital photo which can be used as such.
    Joy Anne
    3rd Jul 2018
    2:43pm
    I think it should be the responsibility of the Dept. Most Pensioners would not know how to take a selfie and upload to My Gov or Centrelink as they are both not user friendly. Difficult to navigate at any time. Pensioners do not have fancy phones as long as they can call 000 and family and friends if need be. Centrelink should organise these photos like Dept of Transport.
    That way if they don't come in their pension can be cancelled. That will sort out the cheats.
    KB
    4th Jul 2018
    2:02pm
    I agree with your Joy Anne.
    bundy
    4th Jul 2018
    2:52pm
    duhhh ...what do u think this criminal Gov/t is up too.they need exterminating..
    Dot
    3rd Jul 2018
    3:10pm
    ONLY FOR DINKY DI AUSSIES, THE REST OF THE WORLD'S TERMITES WILL AUTOMATICALLY RECEIVE WELFARE WITH A GREAT HANDSHAKE AND THE WORDS WELCOME TO AUSTRALIA.
    Cowboy Jim
    3rd Jul 2018
    3:40pm
    Certainly one way of looking at it, and a certainty if Electricity Bill get in with Tanya as Deputy. Maybe Albo has more sense!
    niemakawa
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:56pm
    You must not discriminate against these unfortunates. They are a protected group so you must respect that. NOT.
    Lookfar
    3rd Jul 2018
    8:24pm
    Dot, it is now what 15 years before an imigrant can receive a pension, - or is it 20 years..
    Shouting, (ie using all capitals) does not make it so, I suspect you have been misinformed.
    Immigrants look after our old people because there are not enough Ozzies can be bothered.
    Live in hate, and you will, - Live in hate.
    niemakawa
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:19pm
    Lookfar, you seem to be naive better get out and have a good look around. These immigrants are fast tracked and are given priority over locals for jobs in the aged care "profession". True Aussies are being neglected and pushed aside by al the major parties in this country.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:20pm
    Slip on a burqa and Mohamed's yer Uncle.. look just like ten thousand other women.... or men...
    GrayComputing
    3rd Jul 2018
    4:58pm
    Face recognition is a very poor technology. UK police say there up to 30% FALSE POSTIVES.
    So your visit to Centrelink could land you up in deep trouble.
    In parallel with the rife identify theft it is going to be a total mess.
    Governments love expensive unproven technology solutions when they mess up the legislation and planning and intent.
    No thanks to technology lover Minister Keenan whose earlier pet project the super expensive Meta-Data collection has never brought in anyone to court. $200 million wasted so far and counting
    Rae
    3rd Jul 2018
    6:11pm
    It is insane the billions of dollars being wasted by both Government Parties through sheer mismanagement. There was once a strong and experienced Public Service that kept fraud and mistakes to a minimum but not anymore. The scale of sales of public assets means all sorts of thieving has been going on in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

    Just the Job Providers, VET trainers and NDIS providers have managed to make off with a few billions of our tax dollars.

    And nothing is ever done about it.

    It could save millions as apparently the providers themselves are creating false clients now. Fraud all over the place. Was bound to happen with Free trade haha.
    Triss
    3rd Jul 2018
    6:54pm
    I'll bet it won't, Raphael, how many of the governments ID-iocies have saved us money? Pink Batts, First Home Buyer, etc.
    Anonymous
    3rd Jul 2018
    7:14pm
    Triss - dont compare labor to LNP

    all government catastrophies can be linked back to idiotic labor schemes
    Triss
    3rd Jul 2018
    7:51pm
    Raphael, what party took us into Iraq?
    Anonymous
    3rd Jul 2018
    8:20pm
    yes - and we got rid of a dictator - freed millions
    Triss
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:12pm
    And killed and displaced even more.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:24pm
    .. and Howard said one night (only) that all those deceased Iraqi civilians had died in a good cause... and the media buried it....

    But I saw it...... same as I saw the parachute and boots coming down nearly on top of a CNN camera on Night One of Desert Storm aerial conflict.... when no Allied planes were shot down... sure looked like US flier boots to me... might be that missing US Marine Major shot down by an F-14 trying to hit a fast MIG making a pass through the crowded sky....

    You'll learn, Grasshoppers... one day...
    Noodles
    4th Jul 2018
    11:18am
    Worrying about government knowing everything about me does not concern me one iota. I have nothing to hide and do not have an offshore tax haven and do not rort the taxation system.

    At my age who bloody cares what they know.
    niemakawa
    3rd Jul 2018
    5:20pm
    1. "The trial will allow 100,000 people to apply for a tax file number (TFN) online. TFN applicants currently have to fill out a form – obtained either online or from a post office – and take it to a post office where their identification is verified."

    As far as I know and I have done this for some people in the past that a person can already apply for a TFN on-line. No forms required.

    2. “What we want to see from the Australian Government is transparency about how this system is being used and where the information is going,”

    Wishful thinking perhaps given their track records.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:26pm
    What about those who already have a TFN?

    Will they be forced to re-apply for their own tax file number?
    niemakawa
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:29pm
    TREBOR , don't encourage the traitors in Canberra.
    OnlyDaughter
    3rd Jul 2018
    6:35pm
    Very interesting point raised regarding discrimination. Either implement an Australian Identity Card which everyone has to have or forget about it. No cherry picking. Apart from the discrimination aspect, I do like the thought of rorters being readily detected, and in doing so, I also acknowledge that the honest amongst us run the real risk of having our personal information stolen. The Department of Human Services' website is known to be less than secure by IT professionals and this has been drawn to the attention of the government (of the day) on numerous occasions past, and either denied or totally ignored. Personally, I don't have a problem with an Australian ID Card with biometric photo ID as long as it is compulsory for everyone over 18, not just old tarts and farts.
    Cowboy Jim
    3rd Jul 2018
    7:05pm
    Well put and right on the money.
    Rae
    4th Jul 2018
    8:33am
    Yes well said.
    Rae
    4th Jul 2018
    8:38am
    I'll add that I hope it isn't just another excuse to funnel our tax dollars into some corporate's pocket and the Government do it and pay for it themselves with no outside interest or firm or contractors ripping us off. No $1000 a card kickback for taking a photo please.

    I really am over my taxes being stolen by companies that are only here for the money.

    I'd rather give it to the unemployed or pensioner than some Goldman Sachs representative to take back to the US.
    Spondonian
    3rd Jul 2018
    7:10pm
    We had a Referendum a few years back for having a ID card . They lost that vote so now they are doing it through the backdoor and we dont have a say in it . Scabs .
    niemakawa
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:11pm
    That's the way way, the way they like it. Freedom comes, freedom goes. We are in the latter stage. Unless!!!
    Cowboy Jim
    4th Jul 2018
    10:13am
    Never been asked whether we want to work till 67 years of age either so I wonder why we had a referendum about a silly ID card.
    Eddy
    3rd Jul 2018
    7:11pm
    For goodness sake, why do so many people see bad in every advance in technology? nearly all of us carry drivers licenses with our photo on them, same with passports, my grandchildren have university or school ID cards with their photo. The only people who have anything to fear from such identification technology are those who contemplate embarking on criminal activity. Given the rapid advance in technology I expect that in the near future portable DNA analysis machines, similar to hand held breath testing machines, will be on the market, rendering all this biometric technology redundant. Your DNA will be analysed at birth and will follow you through your life. May not happen in my lifetime but it will come! I say bring it on.
    Triss
    4th Jul 2018
    8:17am
    Sorry to be one of the ones who see bad in technology, Eddy, but with advanced technolology comes advanced corruption.
    DNA at birth...call me a scaredy cat but will we have advanced so far that parents and society will be allowed reject a newborn because of its DNA?
    Cowboy Jim
    4th Jul 2018
    10:17am
    Time might come, Eddy, for parents needing a licence to create a child by proving they are fit to look after it and have the money for his/her (or modern: it) upkeep. Society might get fed up with bringing up children of several fathers by a single mother.
    Eddy
    4th Jul 2018
    2:36pm
    Triss and others. what is it about technology that frightens you, we have had advances in technology since humankind found a way to start a fire, maybe even further back than that. In then last 200 years there have been some amazing advances in technology that nowadays even you would consider the 'normal'. Advances in medicine, engineering, electricity, electronics, aviation, space exploration to name a few. Do you really want future generations not to benefit from technology that we today cannot even contemplate. I suggest we should all embrace technology, even if we do not understand it. As for DNA being used to reject a newborn, I was suggesting that your DNA could follow you through life the same way your name does, only more accurately and less susceptible to identity theft.
    niemakawa
    3rd Jul 2018
    9:04pm
    Photo Id's for the plebs and Branding with a real hot iron for all politicians.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:27pm
    Like 'Inglourius Basterds''? Carved into their forehead?
    niemakawa
    4th Jul 2018
    1:11am
    "I am a politician" will do the trick. On the forehead of course and for back up on the buttocks.
    JustGus
    3rd Jul 2018
    10:53pm
    Well! If we have digital Government we will not need Polititions ,besides , having privatised all of “”The “Peoples “ Assets like water , Power and Public Transport the things that it was their responsibility to supply at an affordable price and was the reason our Government was formed in the first place. Now it has all been shoved on to the States and they are all acting in the same way. Why not just build some huge gas ovens a
    Disguised as ablution Buildings then we can round up all the old age people and send them into Ze Oven , Problem Solved , more Monet to give away to the wealthy.
    niemakawa
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:34pm
    Don't encourage the traitors in Canberra.
    JustGus
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:12pm
    OLD PERSON PRIDE.!!
    Actually, it's not a bad thing to be called,

    as you will see.

    Old People are easy to spot at sporting
    events; during the playing of the
    National Anthem. Old People remove
    their caps and stand at attention and
    sing without embarrassment. They
    know the words and believe in them.

    Old People remember World War II, Pearl Harbor, Guadalcanal , Normandy and
    Hitler. They remember the Atomic Age,
    the Korean War, The Cold War, the Jet
    Age and the Moon Landing. They remember
    the 50 plus Peace-keeping Missions from
    1945 to 2005, not to mention Vietnam .

    If you bump into an Old Person on the
    sidewalk he will apologize. If you pass an
    Old Person on the street, he will nod or
    tip his cap to a lady. Old People trust
    strangers and are courtly to women.

    Old People hold the door for the next
    person and always, when walking, make
    certain the lady is on the inside for
    protection.

    Old People get embarrassed if someone
    curses in front of women and children
    and they don't like any filth or dirty
    language on TV or in movies.

    Old People have moral courage and
    personal integrity. They seldom brag
    unless it's about their children or
    grandchildren.

    It's the Old People who know our great
    country is protected, not by politicians,
    but by the young men and women in the
    military serving their country.

    This country needs Old People with their
    work ethic, sense of responsibility, pride
    in their country and decent values.

    We need them now more than ever.

    Thank God for Old People.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2018
    11:29pm
    Well said, Gus.... you're not THE Gus are you? I knew a Gus once.. not his real name... but hey....
    Old Geezer
    4th Jul 2018
    11:24am
    Sounds like lots of excuse not to move with the times to me.
    Wstaton
    9th Jul 2018
    10:39pm
    God OG you are so predictable.
    TREBOR
    4th Jul 2018
    12:30pm
    Mein Herren und Frauen... your Internal Passports, danke.... dissidence will not be tolerated...
    niemakawa
    4th Jul 2018
    7:57pm
    That is already the case in the UK , Germany et al where political prisoners are becoming the norm. Police States are now a la mode. Free Tommy Robinson.
    bundy
    4th Jul 2018
    2:48pm
    so mr f/wit Keenan wants to be a world leader in Nazeism...the guys a prick..and unAustralian a corrupt Gov;t kicking the needy into the gutter..a/hole//here/s 1 for u Kennan if i see u i.M GOONA BREAK YER FUKN NOSE...U PIECE OF SHIT.
    TREBOR
    4th Jul 2018
    5:42pm
    Please - no violence outside of the polling booth... violence in a class war is not an acceptable form of negotiation..... ummm.. let me re-consider that...
    niemakawa
    4th Jul 2018
    7:08pm
    TREBOR .A civil war seems like , the globalists in our midst are rubbing their hands in glee.
    Cowboy Jim
    4th Jul 2018
    8:08pm
    Your intelligence is showing brightly with that comment, bundy.
    BAT
    5th Jul 2018
    12:53pm
    Have no problems with this.Photo ID should be on all cards.I have nothing to hide.
    niemakawa
    5th Jul 2018
    2:35pm
    Yes with all today's PC nonsense you can tell the authorities that you identify as a dog. Woof Woof.
    niemakawa
    5th Jul 2018
    2:46pm
    They're coming to take me away ha ha!!
    MD
    5th Jul 2018
    8:57pm
    Well of course they'll take you away niemakawa if you insist on chasing your own tail. One good turn deserves another... after all said and done tis but a dogs' life. You're a wag no doubt.
    niemakawa
    5th Jul 2018
    9:27pm
    I'm a hound dog nothing but a hound dog. How much is that doggie is the window the one with the wagly tail? Puppy love !!
    MD
    5th Jul 2018
    9:10pm
    Photo shop, photo shop, lineup, lineup here, get your mug shot taken for posterity and the right to receive a pension. Can you imagine the happy, cheerful and ecstatic countenances of all the happy little vegemites - happy as can be ? It'd make attendance at a crematorium service a burning ambition by comparison.
    niemakawa
    5th Jul 2018
    9:32pm
    How does my hair look love, have I got my teeth in? Well it doesn't matter smiling will be prohibited. Full face please unless you are of a special protected species. The cost of the photo $ 500.00 will be deducted from your next pension payment. Don't complain or you will be suspended from the pension scheme indefinitely. Now jog along.
    musicveg
    7th Jul 2018
    5:58pm
    So what happens to the women who wear a full faced burqua?
    MD
    7th Jul 2018
    9:08pm
    Circumstance for full dispensation musicveg....burqua wearer's immediately qualify for special privilege and foremost consideration. Moral - wear a burqa. Insha allah.
    Wstaton
    9th Jul 2018
    9:40pm
    Considering all the hoops and turns pensioners have to go through to get their pension. Why is a photo needed. We are heading for a complete controlled environment where we cannot even step outside our door without being tracked.

    I went to BigW last week and when I got home and and I looked at my email I got one from them thanking me for visiting their store.

    I was flumoxed. I have a mobile phone but I had data switched off and and location switched off (GPS) I made one purchase and paid cash. So how did they know I went to their store.

    They could have known I was near their store if they had access to the mobile town but it would have to be close to the BigW and they would only be sumizing that I went into their store.

    This really worries me. Next time I am their I will switch my phone off take the battery out and put everything in a lead lined box.
    musicveg
    9th Jul 2018
    9:46pm
    Did you use a rewards card or credit card to pay?
    Wstaton
    9th Jul 2018
    10:42pm
    no I just stuck my $20 bill in the slot.
    Wstaton
    9th Jul 2018
    9:43pm
    One thing that really chees me off is people saying well its done in a lot of other countries so that their is no reason it should be done here. In a lot of other countries people get whipped for stealing a bun. Should we say we should do it here because of that.
    Wstaton
    9th Jul 2018
    9:52pm
    I am thinking of using a veil or balaclava when I go out.

    Hmm! probably make up a law to forbid it.
    *Loloften*
    31st Aug 2018
    8:06pm
    I'm ok with that, have nothing to hide....altho' think bit Nazisim/over the top.


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