Older Australians begrudgingly predict election result

Over 55s feel overlooked by both parties, and will vote for the best of a bad lot.

Older Australians begrudgingly predict election result

The most recent IPSOS poll reveals that the majority of Australians feel Federal Budget 2019 is the fairest in years, but you can bet that over-55s don’t figure prominently in that group.

Twenty-four per cent of IPSOS pollsters said they were “worse off” from the sweeping income tax cuts and infrastructure spending announced in the budget, while 38 per cent believed they were “better off” from the economic plan.

Our own research reveals a different story for older Australians.

In fact, over-55s feel overlooked by both major parties, according to 38 per cent of the respondents to the YourLifeChoices’ Friday Flash Poll: Who do you trust?

Only 10 per cent feel both major parties’ budget measures look after the need of retirees and older people.

Of the two major parties, Labor comes out looking better, with 24 per cent of respondents saying they feel their needs will be covered by Labor budget measures, compared to the 22 per cent who are supportive of the Coalition’s measures.

Of the policies most likely to benefit older Australians, healthcare, including spending on cancer treatment, came out trumps, receiving 26 per cent of the vote. Aged care spending came in second (22 per cent), followed by Medicare (14 per cent), tax cuts (nine per cent) infrastructure and improved access to medicines (eight per cent each).

Superannuation changes will have little effect on the outcome of the election, with just five per cent saying tweaks to super will help them. However, some respondents said that age pension increases or changes to the income and assets test could possibly swing their vote.

When asked which party they typically prefer, 38 per cent of the 1758 respondents say they are typically Liberal voters, 31 per cent are Labor voters, six per cent vote for independents, five per cent choose One Nation, three per cent prefer the Greens and 10 per cent are swinging voters.

The Coalition is banking on trust as a major factor if it is to be re-elected. And if the poll results are anything to go by, this could be a good tactic. Thirty-six per cent of the Flash Poll respondents say they still trust the LNP to manage the country over 31 per cent who think Labor is trustworthy enough to take the reins. However, one in five say they don’t trust any party to run the country, highlighting the lack of confidence in the nation’s suite of politicians.

On this front, both parties seem to have black marks against their names.

“Politicians are only in it for what they can personally screw out of the system to feather their own nests. I have no faith or trust in any of them, especially the LNP who are full of washed-up wannabes and dinosaurs with no care for the country or its people except for their own miserable selves. Remember folks, politicians are there to serve us, not the other way around! A pox on both their houses!” wrote YourLifeChoices member Chaz.

“They don't realise people just don't trust politicians any more,” wrote Doc.

Some members still have hope.

“I am not so cynical to think that all politicians are evil. They are just people, not gods or robots. There are some decent ones among all the parties except perhaps PH [Pauline Hanson] who is not only not intelligent but hateful. The far-right ones are also not okay. Not all LNP are far right and among them there are some decent people. ALP presents the most united team with a better representation of women and some standout talent in their midst,” wrote Paddington.

So far, the LNP is being favoured by older Australians, with 35 per cent saying they will vote for the Coalition and 33 per cent for Labor. Independent politicians and the Greens could hold the balance of power, receiving six per cent and three per cent of the vote respectively. One Nation could also have some leverage, with five per cent of the vote. Eleven per cent are still undecided.

However, the Coalition faithful have conceded the fight, with half of all respondents saying they think Labor will win the next federal election. Only 25 per cent think the Libs can hold on. The Nationals did not receive a single vote and 22 per cent are on the fence.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has not yet announced an election date, but the big money is on 18 May as the day Australians will go to the polls. While Mr Morrison is clearly the preferred PM, leading by 46 to 35 per cent over Bill Shorten in the IPSOS poll, his party faces an uphill battle to be returned, with the same poll showing the Libs trailing Labor 47-53 per cent.

Many feel that politicians are out of touch with the plight of older Australians, yet, when it comes to election time, they will be backed into a corner and have to choose the lesser of two evils.

“It’s a case of picking the best of the worst. This Government has been a pack of self-serving, fractured incompetents. If they can’t get along with each other cohesively how can we expect them to run a successful government. The pensioners, forgotten, the low-income earners, forgotten. People are doing it very tough and this lot have no idea how hard because they’re so busy looking after themselves and still filling their mouths with the silver spoon, paid for by the very taxpayers they’re rooting. $75-$125 for pensioners for power; they’ve had a 10 per cent pay rise this year. Go figure!” wrote Jansview.

“I would prefer to trust someone who has the people of Australia in mind, not their own hip pocket. But then again, it would happen to them also once in power, so it becomes the same, same over again. These pollies have no idea of how local Australians are suffering from all their mistakes. Roll on the election!” wrote ronloby.

And yet, regardless of the lack of trust for the two major parties, post-election, one of them will be seated on the pointy end of the mace.

“One party or the other will get your vote as that's how the system works,” wrote Old Geezer.

Do you feel that you will have to vote for ‘the best of a bad lot’? What can be done about our system of democracy? Or do you feel that it is what it is?

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    COMMENTS

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    mogo51
    8th Apr 2019
    10:20am
    Without a doubt. They are both appalling, but I cannot think of anything worse than Bill Shorten PM-no thanks.
    Grateful
    8th Apr 2019
    10:44am
    Please enlighten us mogo51. I've heard that so often but why "can't he be trusted"? Why can't you think of anything worse than Bill Shorten as P.M. Please tell us.
    He is one person, governments government, not the P.M.
    It's POLICIES that I am voting on and I see absolutely nothing for age pensioners on the base rate and also having to pay rent.
    But I do see something, at last, being proposed to kill off those unsustainable and grossly unfair taxation rorts that are not only taking huge amounts from the budget to provide essentials for all to share, but, have created enormous demographic damage to our entire society with tax subsidized investors making home ownership impossible for young familiies, when "homes" became highly attractive investment commodities.
    Blinky
    8th Apr 2019
    11:50am
    Shorten is a union man, like most Labor pollies. They are managed by the unions.
    Shorten has not even mentioned the dreaded term "pensioner," Labor always say they are there x the "Oz worker," they have never said anyrhing about "the forsaken lot" nobody cares about, unless they want to screw pensioners in order to balance the budget.
    Shorten has mimmicked Morrison's budget n he is promising more. That is easy to say, but where is he going to get the money from?
    Shorten has never confirmed he will stop n return the boats w illegals and illegals will flood n invade Australia, just u watch. That will cost us billions n billions.
    U want to keep Au safe? DO NOT VOTE LABOR!!!
    Sundays
    8th Apr 2019
    11:54am
    I agree Grateful but the very Self Interested ( not all Self funded, including myself) wont see it that way. They think we don’t understand taxation, when in reality we can see the rorts for what they are. I trust Bill Shorten before Morrison and that snake in the grass Dutton. They had the perfect opportunity to make this Budget great, but all it came down to was tax cuts for the wealthy. Labor has real policies, and I hope they get elected.
    casey
    8th Apr 2019
    11:55am
    Bob Hawke was a union man! Remember what a disaster he was! What other country would elect an alcoholic as their leader. Bill Shorten would be worse.
    Paddington
    8th Apr 2019
    12:07pm
    Blinky, Morrison actually mimicked Labor’s budget which they had already put out there a while back. Thy failed to see the cancer part though much to their chagrin.
    If you got that wrong maybe you have a few other things wrong as well. Where is Labor getting their money. Just ask a few on here he is taking it from them with their franking credits. Then ask others who invest in extra properties and claim huge deductions.
    Extreme views like the“flooding of illegals” is a far reach and one that sounds desperate.
    Everyone has someone affected by cancer and it is a huge winner. LNP missed that one because Labor did not foreshadow it.
    Cowboy Jim
    8th Apr 2019
    12:11pm
    Hawke was not all that bad, casey. But he did have Paul Keating looking after finances. Shorten has not! Who wants Penny Wong?
    casey
    8th Apr 2019
    12:14pm
    Cowboy Jim, you can't say that about Penny Wong. She already has a girlfreind (wife).
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    12:16pm
    Blinky by name - Blinky by action.

    Of course Shorten is a Union man and Labor has a solid base in the Unions - the Labor Party was developed by the Unions. **rolls eyes**

    Now, I'm a former Union man, but not necessarily a Labor man... but let's be honest - Unions do some very good things, not least of which is spending a lot of time and money working out negotiation points for enterprise bargains, supplying legal aid when required to afflicted members, providing moral support for legal strikes and giving solid reasons for those strikes, ensuring that strikes ARE within the rules, and again - not least - spending a lot of time and money and energy working on an annual national wage claim and/or representing the working people in any submissions to whatever body the government sets up to determine wage rises etc.

    EVERY wage and salary earner benefits from this work - so I find it amazing that so many people still hate on Unions that do so much for them - with most of the complainers getting it for free, but somehow feeling they are a superior breed to the common herd of common unwashed workers.

    Some of you people truly amaze me. I've worked with people like that - one had been terminated at the Water Board by a MANAGEMENT restructure - more than obviously the Union fought to ensure all such redundants got their full entitlements etc - yet this clown hated the Union with a vengeance and blamed them for his losing his job. that he was abysmally stupid and of no real benefit to anyone as a worker seems to have escaped his knowledge.

    Anyway - keep taking the cream that the Unions negotiate for you, and go on blaming them for the endless piss-poor management in this nation at this time. I'm sure Bossy will take good care of you while he collapses the company - again.

    And NO - I don't vote university quadrangle social science sidewalk cafe latte ladies Labor... EVER! Social Science has no place in running a nation or a society - it can only be an observer, not a move maker.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    12:25pm
    As for negative gearing etc - don't forget the recent review by the ATO that turned up many hundreds if not thousands of over-claims and even claims for non-existent dwellings.

    Whole thing needs a thorough review along with the entire tax system, and the ATO needs re-staffing ....
    KSS
    8th Apr 2019
    1:21pm
    Grateful, Mr Shorten did not put the interests of the low paid workers (cleaners and the like) first when he was meant to be representing them. He rorted money from employers supposedly for training and professional development for those workers but the education was never delivered, the money went straight to union coffers. On top of that he negotiated away wage increases for the same people he was meant to be fighting for. Then let's not forget he pledged loyalty and support for TWO Prime Ministers before knifing both of them to further his own aspirations. Mr Shorten has no compunction about blatantly, repeatedly and knowingly lying (remember Mediscare) to get what he wants - the keys to the Lodge. To that end he wants to lower the voting age to 16!

    No Grateful, Mr Shorten is not trustworthy - ask the first wife he dumped to marry the current Mrs Shorten and daughter of a previous Governor General. A social climber if ever there was one.
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    4:42pm
    Not unexpectedly three of our government trolls are here running the propaganda.
    I am always amused when any Labor leader is equated to unions which are made out to be thugs and criminals whilst the crooked as a dog's hind leg top end of town and its dealings are NEVER linked to LNP leaders.

    If you want to trot out the BS then I demand you respond to:

    1. the huge increase in debt over the past 6 years.
    2. the attacks on the pay and conditions of workers.
    3. the lowering of pay for hand to mouth workers.
    4. the freezing of pay for average workers whilst the rich have been handed huge pay increases and tax cuts.
    5. the offshore tax shelters which only the wealthy can access.
    6. the corrupt association with the coal industry.
    7. the sell out for all environmental issues.
    8. the abandonment of the planet.

    No comment? Divert discussion? Come back with accusations? What about hurling abuse at the messenger? The way the (paid) propaganda machine of the right works complete with media running its one sided news and talk back where Labor is left out and abused.
    Misty
    8th Apr 2019
    4:50pm
    KSS you only know what the media tells you about Bill Shorten and seeing most of the papers and TV, EVEN FREE TO AIR IS CONTROLLED BY mURDOCH'S nEWS cORP WHAT ELSE CAN YOU EXPECT. Sorry about the capitols I wasn't looking and haven't time to change the text my cat needs feeding.
    Old Geezer
    8th Apr 2019
    6:18pm
    I can't see Bill Shorten as PM at all.
    GeorgeM
    8th Apr 2019
    8:08pm
    Correct, mogo51, too many reasons why Bill Shorten should not be PM, and why his terrible team must not win. While OG will agree with this, I disagree with his comment quoted in the article "One party or the other will get your vote as that's how the system works".

    BOTH Major parties and the Greens MUST be thrown OUT - we have tolerated them for far too long! Put them (the current MPs of these parties) LAST in preferences. The Retirees are one group ignored by BOTH, and we must act to get rid of them BOTH, by using the strength of 3 Million+ retirees votes. To achieve this, the best thing to do is to assign preferences very logically & purposefully - I recommend a strategy as follows:

    Put No. 1 for your favourite candidate (supporting Retirees preferably),
    Put all extremists at the end,
    Put your No. 2 as the one who you think can win and who may be acceptable to you, and
    Put the remaining in between such that the sitting Major party MP is definitely below the alternative Major party candidate (always keeping the Greens, being extremists, near or at the end).

    If enough people do this, you will a) know you did your best, and b) hopefully the useless sitting MP will lose their seat.
    This could mean a result which has a mixture of parties and independents. That will shake up the system with more action by parties in future to focus on what people want.
    Misty
    8th Apr 2019
    8:48pm
    Get real GeorgeM, that is never going to happen and you know it.
    GeorgeM
    8th Apr 2019
    11:39pm
    Of course a Major party supporter would say that, Misty. They said the same thing in USA before Trump, an outsider, got elected! Same thing before they voted for Brexit in UK. Yellow vests in France are not going away. Australia also won't remain backward too long regarding the inertia and self-interest focused attitude of the Major parties.
    maxchugg
    9th Apr 2019
    10:13am
    "Not unexpectedly three of our government trolls are here running the propaganda."

    "You are very black" said the pot to the kettle.
    maxchugg
    9th Apr 2019
    10:13am
    "Not unexpectedly three of our government trolls are here running the propaganda."

    "You are very black" said the pot to the kettle.
    *Loloften*
    10th Apr 2019
    1:16am
    I can see Bill as PM even tho' he sometimes appears to be timid, don't think he is. Bill has the Unions behind him & that's exactly what most ppl need now. Wages were far more "equal" when the Unions were strong, fighting for them. ScoMo....nup, just a back-stabbing, smug social climber (Malcolm & Julie not enarmoured of him). I've been a swinging voter all my adult life - vote depending on what's best for our country & my family. Altho' neither Bill nor ScoMo have mentioned OAP's (which bit pis*ed off with both for that as not sure "home care" will be available to all who need it for the usual approx 2yrs), I believe strong Unions will help our future generations as they did our parents/us in the 40s/50s/60s/70s.....sadly not so much since. I believe that now, more than ever, we need very strong Unions for all our workers as it's not easy to confront one's boss for a pay rise - only the very few "who don't give a damn if they're sacked" do it. Most others just keep complying with either none or less than deserve/inflation rate as can't afford to lose their job - need to pay their bigger than ever mortgages; ever increasing gas, elec, water; insurances; council rates if lucky enough to have bought a home (rent increases if sadly not) etc etc....most younger ppl do not have/can't afford Private Health insurance, we so called "baby-boomer burdens" are propping up that ridiculously increasing & costly business. I'll be ditching mine now altho' told have very slight show of cataracts & know that a very dear friend who didn't have top health insurance (need to have that now if want cataract cover) had to wait 2 yrs to have her cataracts fixed....couldn't drive her car for last 12mths. Feel very lucky to not yet been diagnosed with any cancer, as my hubby was in early 50s & it cost us a small fortune....wouldn't have cost even 1/2 as much if didn't have Private Health Insurance altho' believe he would not have had the same very thorough treatments/attention to detailed tests, MRI/CT/PET scans et al which did cost us a heaps (as extras) as everything had excess payments altho' they all helped him to live 6yrs past what he joking called his "use by date." Bill's policy for cancer sufferers is a super spesh newbie - cancer is not only a killer but a poverty maker whether treated in Public or Private system, there's always excesses. I'll be voting for Bill as expect (& not fussed abt it) to be the 1 in 4 ppl who eventually gets cancer.....don't like the thought of paying very many $1,000s for various scans et al excesses even if in the Public system.
    Anonymous
    10th Apr 2019
    7:00pm
    Loloften, cancer treatment IS FREE in the public system. Shorten is concerned that the elite, like his rich mother, pay a gap when they opt for private cancer treatment.

    What you will vote for is for more for the wealthy and an environment where you are either born rich or remain poor, because work and saving is a punishable offence.
    Anonymous
    14th Apr 2019
    7:11am
    Heaven help us if Shorten becomes PM. He has admitted openly that he doesn't care about people who might not vote for him. He intends to govern for the benefit of his followers only - and to hell with the nation and the rest of the population.

    His answer when questioned about raising taxes by over $200 billion was a grunt and a shrug. He apparently thinks the population is a mob of milking cows to be robbed and ripped off.

    He has demonstrated an intention to make work, investing, and taking personal responsibility a punishable offence and to reward manipulation to claim public benefit (whether it is needed or not).

    He has demonised retirees for saving and living responsibly and demonised small business (claiming owners use Trusts to dodge tax) and demonised real estate investors (claiming they are 'rorting') with no acknowledgement that many of these folk are honest, hard-working and GENUINELY struggling to achieve a liveable income, and certainly no acknowledgment of the contribution they make to the economy. He has no respect and no human decency. He is dividing this nation in a way never before seen - but while doing so, favouring racial and religious minorities and non-traditional families.

    Responsible, hard-working, ethical, moral native-born white Australians - especially retired seniors who are self-supporting - are quickly becoming the most disadvantaged and discriminated-against group in the nation. Shorten will reduce their numbers and increase the discrimination against them.
    Pines
    8th Apr 2019
    10:31am
    People don't really know enough of Bill Shorten to make all these judgements about him being supposedly untrustworthy. None of the Commercial TV media ever bother to interview him. Radio is the same they are so politically biased in favour of the LNP. I think the reason the public has the idea he's untrustworthy is because that is all they hear from the LNP nonstop, they almost to a person start their every sentence bad mouthing Bill Shorten. It is so personal, It is like Brainwashing. Scott Morrison constantly says "Shorten is arrogant and thinks he's won the Election already" In my opinion he is talking about himself as I feel he is arrogant and the way he vowed he backed Malcolm Turnbull with his arm around Malcolm's shoulders made me feel he is the untrustworthy one.
    wogaroo
    8th Apr 2019
    10:35am
    Pines, you have hit the nail right on the head! Spot on! WOGAROO
    Tom Tank
    8th Apr 2019
    12:01pm
    Spot on Pines and wogroo. It is the LNP and the Murdoch press who repeat the same mantra over and over.
    As far as being a Union man the Prime Minister who is regarded as Australia's best was also a union man and "a book should not be judged by it's cover."
    Shorten could do with a charisma transplant and Morrison could do with less shouting and perhaps live up to his religious beliefs rather than his political ones.
    Overall our "Westminster" system of government is in trouble, even more so in the UK, and party politics is at the root of that. Fortunately our voting system, while not perfect, is better than any other country's.
    Tom Tank
    8th Apr 2019
    12:01pm
    Spot on Pines and wogroo. It is the LNP and the Murdoch press who repeat the same mantra over and over.
    As far as being a Union man the Prime Minister who is regarded as Australia's best was also a union man and "a book should not be judged by it's cover."
    Shorten could do with a charisma transplant and Morrison could do with less shouting and perhaps live up to his religious beliefs rather than his political ones.
    Overall our "Westminster" system of government is in trouble, even more so in the UK, and party politics is at the root of that. Fortunately our voting system, while not perfect, is better than any other country's.
    Old Man
    8th Apr 2019
    12:10pm
    Pines, the commercial media has a welcome mat out for Shorten and there have been numerous attempts to get him interviewed by Mitchell, Jones, Hadley et al. He has never been available.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    12:35pm
    His rigid adherence to the tenets of faux feminism are enough to make me reject him... that includes the never-ending policies of exclusion and of division, endless jobs for the whining groups who make such headway out of aggression in the streets and demands and stand-over using blatant lies about statistics and such. Nobody in this day and age of 62% uni graduates being women, affirmative action having become (as I predicted nearly forty years ago) the 'norm', with many areas of work rapidly becoming No Place For Any Men and all in the soft seat and soft super jobs and so forth - that we continue to need any affirmative action for women, for a start.

    As for the rest of the whining groups - how about they make their own way the same as the rest of us did - sometimes time after time, and often due to the piss-poor management of this country these days.

    Nobody ever gave me a handout, not even an inheritance, and I've had to work for it time and time again.

    Until Labor actually begins to be a party that accords equal treatment to all equally - and not just preferred unequal treatment with no sunset clause to its pet groups - it will never receive my vote, and while ever it continues, as the LNP has done too, to destroy the genuine rights and aspirations of the majority to feed minorities with a grudge and an endless series of escalating demands that build on each 'victory' against the majority - it will never receive my vote.

    Footnote:- Affirmative Action in the Commonwealth Public Service was introduced by the LNP. Then we have Howard and the gun laws and the way 'domestic violence' was OVER-developed to afford to the State the opportunity to steal legally owned and registered firearms, and meantime making many innocent men into criminals for no valid reason. No difference there.... only in rhetoric, in their dismal handling of this society and its cost to the real people out here.
    libsareliars
    8th Apr 2019
    12:42pm
    Spot on Pines, well said.Old Man, why would Bill bother talking to the likes Jones, Hadley or Mitchell, they are so overtly pro LNP and they would not let him speak and just shout over him. I think Bill will make a great PM, couldn't be any worse than the three we've had for the last 6 years.
    KSS
    8th Apr 2019
    1:23pm
    Well Pines, you clearly have not be listening:

    Mr Shorten did not put the interests of the low paid workers (cleaners and the like) first when he was meant to be representing them. He rorted money from employers supposedly for training and professional development for those workers but the education was never delivered, the money went straight to union coffers. On top of that he negotiated away wage increases for the same people he was meant to be fighting for. Then let's not forget he pledged loyalty and support for TWO Prime Ministers before knifing both of them to further his own aspirations. Mr Shorten has no compunction about blatantly, repeatedly and knowingly lying (remember Mediscare) to get what he wants - the keys to the Lodge.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    2:02pm
    That's what you get in a one party state, Pines.......

    Just saying....
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    2:04pm
    KSS - I don't see where Pines has said Shorten is gold-plated - just that the media seem intent on not hearing his views...
    KSS
    8th Apr 2019
    2:15pm
    Trebor: Pines said

    "People don't really know enough of Bill Shorten to make all these judgements about him being supposedly untrustworthy."

    I just pointed pout that actually we do do quite a lot about Mr Shorten and therefore have an opinion as to his trustworthiness.
    Jim
    8th Apr 2019
    2:36pm
    Some people do know Bill Shorten and know he can’t be trusted, I was a union member for 51 years, the last 16 years of my working life as a member of the AWU and the AMWU when Shorten was the National secretary, he was more concerned with raising his profile for entry into federal politics than he was in representing the people paying his wages, eg when I worked at Bluescope steel, ( formerly BHP ) the company had applied to the courts to vary our award ( enterprise agreement ) on the blast furnaces, the award specified how many employees were needed per shift, the company wanted to reduce the number of employees by 10 over all shifts, we had asked the union for legal assistance, the commissioner at the time was Conners who had advised that we needed to put our argument forward in a legal way to have any chance of winning, we again asked head office ( Shorten ) for legal assistance it was refused saying we just didn’t have the finances, strangely not long after Shorten was touring the country with his entourage raising his profile, some might remember Beaconsfield where he camped out for about a week with his followers, I am not sure that the miners were even in our union. After 2 years of battling on our own we eventually lost the 10 jobs, the following few years the company used similar arguments to reduce the employee numbers by a significant number, never mind Shorten got his seat, and proved how trustworthy he was when he was instrumental in the removal of Rudd Gillard Rudd governments. The LNP are not a lot better with their shenanigans regarding leadership battles, so who knows who is more trustworthy, it would seem none of them!
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    4:44pm
    Good post Pines. Coming up the rear are the normal LNP posters trying their best to muddy the water.
    The facts are clear. The behaviour of the media is well known and only getting worse. You have indeed nailed it Pines.
    Misty
    8th Apr 2019
    5:34pm
    KSS as I said before, you only know Bill Shorten through what the media reports, and seeing it is controlled by R Murdoch's News Corp, even most free to air now as wedll as the newsprint, what else can you expect, of course they will rubbish him won't they. I don't know about you and everyone else here who you vote for, well I don't vote for Bill Shorten, I vote for my local member.
    Old Geezer
    8th Apr 2019
    6:23pm
    I know more than enough about him myself.
    Misty
    8th Apr 2019
    8:52pm
    Is there anything you haven't done, haven't visited, haven't seen, don't know about OG?, you sound like an encyclopedia.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    10:06pm
    Well.... some sort of cyclo-something or other.....
    Misty
    8th Apr 2019
    10:25pm
    Glad you agree TREBOR.
    KSS
    9th Apr 2019
    7:17am
    You can bury your head in the sand Misty, but people know exactly what Mr Shorten is like and whether he is trustworthy or not. Did you bother to read Jim's comment? And please tell me how Mr Shorten did NOT pledge loyaly to TWO Prime Ministers then stab them in the back. I'd really like to know your take on that. If it is not dishonesty then how do you see it?
    Misty
    9th Apr 2019
    9:48pm
    KSS I did read all of Jim's comment, that is his take on things, my husband was also a member of thw AMWU and he went to their meetings and there was never anything bad said about BS, I was not privy to any of the meetings BS had with the 2 PM'S you talk about , were you?, so I cannot comment on that.
    Ted
    8th Apr 2019
    11:19am
    It is time for a change. The LNP need some time in opposition to refresh and come up with clear long term policies. Remember the disfunction etc of a few months ago.

    Remember too, many of the tax cuts in the budget are two elections away, not immediate so how many of us think they will actually be enacted after a couple of elections.

    Time to change, refresh and renew.
    libsareliars
    8th Apr 2019
    12:43pm
    Agreed Ted.
    Misty
    8th Apr 2019
    5:36pm
    Some of us might have fallen off the perch by then too.
    Old Geezer
    8th Apr 2019
    6:20pm
    This time change is not good.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    10:07pm
    So staying put while the house falls around us is a good stance?

    I want complete change - out with Labor and out with the LNP and they can take the Greens with them... we need to start again....
    annie
    8th Apr 2019
    11:26am
    I'm prepared to give Labor, which includes Bill Shorten, Bill Shorten is not Labor. My local member is Labor and she is extremely hard working for her electorate and that is who I will be voting for, not Bill Shorten. LNP has released the record, Bill shorten and Labor are telling lies and will sink the country, (remember the lies Abbott, Turnbull and Morrison have told, carbon Tax would be the biggest tie, it was never a tax but stupid people believed it) LNP have the 3 word slogan, innovation and growth and now we have congestion busting infrastructure, Labor on the other hand have stumped up with actual policies among the best is the false retiree tax which is not a tax on retirees but a hand out for retirees that the majority don't really need and the negative gearing tax. I will give Labor the chance to put their policies into action. People need to pull their heads out of the sand and actually weigh up what is being said. You only have to look at the LNP stealing tax payer money to advertise their lies.
    Jim
    8th Apr 2019
    3:11pm
    Sorry I respectfully disagree, the removal of franking credits is theft, it’s hard for some people to fully understand that the franking credit is tax that has already been deducted from an investor’s dividend, Labor is using the politics of envy to confuse people that someone is getting something for nothing, if the company I have shares in pays a dividend that includes a franked amount I do not receive the franked amount, that is retained by the company as a tax debt to the ATO, if I get a dividend that doesn’t include a franked amount then I am responsible for any tax payable, this only applies to my investments outside of super, I don’t have any super so I am not in a position to comment on what happens to investments inside super, and I don’t have any negatively geared investments so again no comment, hope this goes some way to explain how franking credits actually work.
    Rae
    8th Apr 2019
    4:18pm
    Yes Jim I only hold one company outside indexes. I bought shares to supplement electricity or pay for solar panels as I get none of the pensioner energy concessions so I was looking after myself as usual.

    Dividends were unfranked for years. Recent dividend turned up franked. I'm selling these shares. Bugger that for a sick joke. The money can go into overseas sharemarkets as Australia isn't worth investing in now for me.

    Obviously someone wants the franking probably the rich to reduce high taxes. They can have them.
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    4:46pm
    Well written annie.
    For the two LNP hacks above can I say we too will be stung by the franking credits changes. Not pleasant and it will affect our income. However we will, like others, find other investments to compensate. So too should you.
    Do yourself a favour and wean yourself off the toxic LNP. The brand is so tainted that only rusted ons and people with no soul or credibility could stay on that ship. You?
    Jim
    8th Apr 2019
    5:11pm
    I have stated many times in the past that I have and usually vote Labor, the article is about which of the parties and their leaders can be trusted, I have clearly stated that I trust neither party and have personal experience regarding the trustworthy ness of Bill Shorten.
    Farside
    8th Apr 2019
    5:50pm
    Jim, you argue "the removal of franking credits is theft", well others can argue introduction of franking credit refunds was a gift representing little more than middle class welfare. These diametric opposing views are unlikely to reach agreement.

    Btw,I assume you meant the franking credit refunds as nobody is proposing to remove franking credits altogether. Words matter.
    Jim
    8th Apr 2019
    6:13pm
    Yes far side I am referring to the franking credits, and I also agree that Labor has said that they will not be touching the franking credits of people like myself, my wife and I receive between $300/$500 per year, the original policy by Labor was to stop the refunding of all franking credits, my point is that I have in effect paid the tax due on the dividends I receive so for anyone to suggest they be taken away I would consider that to be theft, I know words and how we use them can be interpreted differently, if Labor do revert back to stopping all refunds of franking credits I suspect there could be a legal challenge, but admit I don’t know enough about the law. Either way I won’t be greatly affected, but I do feel compassion for the SFR that may be affected by the changes, I also suspect that many might have a spend up to get them a few dollars of pension, which would also give them the other concessions that we pensioners get, but I guess time will tell.
    Old Geezer
    8th Apr 2019
    6:26pm
    My MP is also Labor and doesn't even answer her mail. I have never seen her in my part of the electorate either. She gets my vote last.
    Misty
    8th Apr 2019
    8:56pm
    Don't rtell me there is a politician you actually haven't seen or don't know OG. I am sure she will have sleepless night if she doesn't get your vote (not)
    Pushkin2
    8th Apr 2019
    11:29am
    Interesting those polled said they "think" or "feel" Labor will win the election, but they didn't indicate who they would vote for. Elections are won or lost in individual electorates and we don't vote directly for PMs so statements about the leaders are largely irrelevant. Policies are developed and agreed by parties and leaders are their spokespeople. Whether or not we prefer one leader over another for whatever reason (usually because of their media presence) it has a far lesser impact on the final result unlike countries that directly elect their leaders. If we did it's likely neither Shorten or Morrison would be elected.
    annie
    8th Apr 2019
    12:22pm
    I'm voting Labor Pushkin2
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    4:50pm
    I'm still not sure Pushkin2 but will likely go Labor because the most important thing to do for THIS election is to send the LNP to the bottom of the harbour. Its a dictatorship trying to happen and I won't be helping it to proceed. Neither should other Australians unless they are prepared to not complain when they get exactly what they never voted for: enslavement. If you don't know what I mean with that then go live in countries where speaking out against a bad regime can get you killed. Plenty of them.
    Old Geezer
    8th Apr 2019
    6:27pm
    I'm voting Labor Last.
    KSS
    9th Apr 2019
    7:21am
    And there it is folks. Mick will vote Labor after all these years spruiking for the Independents! We all knew he was a Laborite, now at least he admits it.
    Anonymous
    10th Apr 2019
    6:58pm
    I think it's funny that Mick is voting Labor to stop a 'dictatorship'. Why on earth does he think Labor is out to destroy the self-sufficient battlers? Because THEY OPPOSE LABOR'S POWER GRAB, of course! Labor wants to make us all dependent so they have absolute power. I believe THIS LNP has decided to collude with Labor to achieve a shared objective, but I still think they are far less likely to do permanent harm to our society.
    Possitive Possum
    8th Apr 2019
    11:30am
    Sorry but I recken the rich are getting fatter and the poor and being kept down there. After all, the Govt started the damn GST and have been collection from the whole lot of us, man, women and child. Surely they can put some of that back into those who need it in particular the Dole, which hasn't risen fore-ever and the pension. A $9 rise in the pension doesn't pay for the $25 rise in my rates, or the 20c ltre rise in fuel, or the extra charges for bottled water or drinks and milk or the rise in my insurance and registration each year. It just doesn't cut it to say we don't have the money, if they can give themselves a rise every year without fail, they can give the pensioners and newstart a decent rise of at least $75 if not $100. After all, that wouldn't be enough to pay for ONE of the Politicians meals and they begrudge us that. :(
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    1:46pm
    As for GST - the States have had countless billions pass through their hands from it - and the results to date have been higher salaries and perks and pension schemes for them, handouts so their mates, and inflation.

    Ban the GST - rearrange the entire tax system to achieve real results. One fat cat buys one microwave - 10,000 slim cats buy 10,000 microwaves.. each pays the 'equitable' GST.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    2:07pm
    e.g. we paid billions into GST so that the state of NSW could sell off its power gird and its roads and everything else in sight.... why bother to retain and maintain such things via GST when they no longer belong to those who bought and paid for them?

    GST was supposed to give the States the opportunity to develop infrastructure - not sell it all off for thirty pieces of silverside.

    Abolish the GST now and let the market settle of its own accord. (I love the way the adherents to 'market capitalism' always demand government subsidies and handouts)...
    Cowboy Jim
    8th Apr 2019
    4:20pm
    TREBOR - you will never be able to abolish the GST, it will just get larger in %age. Was living in South Africa when it was brought in at 2 and a half %. Last time I heard they are at 25%. NZ is at the present time at 15% (on everything) and every country I have been to has it. 19.4% Germany, in Ireland up to 23% for things they deem luxury.
    So we will just get used to it. And hope Bill will not immediately follow NZ to 15%.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    4:58pm
    True, Cowboy Jim - once a tax has its claws dug in it never lets go.
    Old Geezer
    8th Apr 2019
    6:28pm
    Nothing will change under Labor except the rich will get richer and the poor poorer with Labor's carbon tax.
    Misty
    8th Apr 2019
    8:58pm
    That old scare line of Tony Abbott's won't work anymore OG.
    KSS
    9th Apr 2019
    7:29am
    Watch and see Misty.

    How is Mr Shorten going to replace the billions of dollars in fuel excise he will lose over his ridiculous electric car dictum? IF he is successful, in forcing people to buy half a million electric cars a year, how is he going to make up the lost billions? Just who do you think is going to pay for that?
    Misty
    9th Apr 2019
    11:23am
    I wish you people commenting here would get your facts right and not believe everything the Murdoch press wants you to believe.
    For one thing Labor is not forcing people to buy electric cars just wants to give people the choice and the 50% is just a target.
    The car industry itself is mooving this way already, you can buy electric cars overseas for 35,000.00 dollars and QLND has battery charging stations that only take 15 minutes to recharge your car. Oh and by the way, Josh Freidenberg himself said last week, the coalitions ambition is to have 50% of electric cars too by 2030. The CEO of the Electric Car Industry said yesterday that technology is improving all the time and Australia will be left behind if it doesn't get with the future, so many jobs could be created here with this industry too.
    Denis & Narelle
    8th Apr 2019
    11:34am
    From the comments of "Grateful" and "Pines" it is evident they have been living on another planet for the past few years. Grateful appears to be living on a pension, provided by taxpayers over many years, who have worked hard and provided for themselves. Grateful obviously has not and begrudges anyone who has. I and many others on this website have tried to explain the real situation so far as the "taxation rorts" Grateful refers to but obviously education and common sense are beyond the capabilities of people like Grateful. And the comment of "created enormous demographic damage to our entire society" is so ironic. Bill Shorten and Chris Bowen are proposing one of the most demographic damaging polices that will create such a huge divide between not only the older and younger generations but between even members of the older generation themselves. But what is the point when the Gratefuls of this world just can't or don't want to see it.
    And so far as Pines comment about trusting Bill Shorten, you certainly have a short memory. It was not that many years ago when, as a union leader, it was brought to notice that he undertook action that was contrary to the interests of members of his union. And what nonsense it is to say that commercial TV is biased against him and doesn't not ever interview him. Channel 9 and its Fairfax newspapers are so pro Labor it is even noticeable among commentators who this morning said that the results of the Ipsos poll were directly in line with this mornings Fairfax editorial. Or did Pines not know that Channel 9 and Fairfax are now one and the same. Plus you have the ABC very much in line with Labor. I suggest Pines you do a bit more research before making ridiculous comments.
    annie
    8th Apr 2019
    11:46am
    You must be self funded retirees who get a tax refund for inputation credits that the company pays tax on not you. If you are just an ordinary struggling pensioner then I'm sorry but can't understand your comment.
    Sceptic
    8th Apr 2019
    12:07pm
    Annie, being a shareholder I am part owner of a company, thus I m a part owner of the profit, and thus I ama part owner of any tax paid from those profits. On my tax return, the whole of the profit, including the tax paid appears as income (ie. the dividend plus the franking credit). The ATO treats that whole figure, dividend plus franking credit, as income. Therefore It is considered that I have paid the tax as I did not receive that portion (the franking credit) with the dividend)
    Rae
    8th Apr 2019
    12:40pm
    Yes annie but remember those savers who invested into Australian companies don't get the aged pension and all the concessions either. They may get a cheque from the ATO to live on instead. Damned if I can see the difference.

    Joe Blog spent his $50 a week on the club and lotto and now gets the pension from the taxpayer via Centrelink.

    Jimmy Blog bought shares with his $50 and gets a cheque from the taxpayer via the ATO.

    Joe probably had a bit more fun though. Obviously investing in Australian companies won't be so popular in the future. Spending it up each week and getting an aged pension is looking the better option.
    libsareliars
    8th Apr 2019
    12:45pm
    Sceptic, no other country in the world has dividend imputation - why because it's a rort introduced by little Johnny and his middle class welfare. If you don't pay any tax why should you get a tax refund?
    casey
    8th Apr 2019
    12:58pm
    libsareliars, presumably you worked and your employer deducted tax from your income, then you put in a tax return to claim any refund you might be entitled to. So what is the difference when a self funded retiree has tax deducted from the interest he earns, then puts in a tax return to claim any refund he is entitled too. Unlike most people they don't get government handouts every week, or discounts on their rates, power and other utilities. As the name says, they are self funded retirees, and if they are entitled to a refund what is the problem!
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    1:44pm
    Now, now Denis and Narelle - none of your politics of envy.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    1:48pm
    Dividend imputation is tax paid by the company on behalf of shareholders - it is NOT company tax. As such it is to be included in personal total income for tax assessment... thus speaketh the ATO.

    It has nothing to do with companies paying THEIR taxes... they are paying YOURS in advance. Got it?
    Captain
    8th Apr 2019
    2:04pm
    annie & libsareliars, if you are pensioners who have some shares within your Superannuation fund, you will be receiving the dividend imputation credit refund.

    If that is the case why do you think that SFR's should not receive the dividend imputation credits?
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    2:12pm
    I agree with Captain here - Labor has crawfished over pensioners and DI returns when paying no tax - then excluded any not in receipt of ANY pension - yet rants about 'equity' at every turn - their approach is flawed.

    An SFR could be one dollar above the cutout point for part pension and take it on the chin, thus having a net income lower than a part pensioner after not receiving DI return.

    The whole issue needs a thorough overhaul. I'll bet there are some genuine employees of the ATO who have an idea how to do this - but they will be silenced by the contracted bosses. If you don't wish to view Coventry close up, keep your dissident views, no matter how well-founded, to yourself.
    Grateful
    8th Apr 2019
    2:40pm
    I am seeking to have this disgraceful, totally incorrect, defamatory garbage removed. What an insulting, arrogant, post based upon absolute blatantly WRONG information about me personally.
    You sound like those politicians that speak your language in parliament every day??!!
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    5:36pm
    What's amazing is your 'views' of Labor when you fail to put forward even ONE of the MANY issues which have marked the current government for shredding.
    You really are off the planet. A rusted on voting for your bank account whilst selling out our country. I'd respect your view and that of the trolls who are working this website but when you play the game rather than put forward the facts, because they a damning, then what is the value of you? You may want to go live in the 'Land of the (not) Free', a place you would enjoy because average citizens there have been converted into slaves with no rights and able to be shot on sight with impunity for police. How dare you claim to be an 'Australian'. Our nation was not built on inequality but this is what you desire!
    Misty
    8th Apr 2019
    5:46pm
    Click on the report button Grateful or email the moderator to tell them of your concerns. Ben is the moderator.
    Pines
    8th Apr 2019
    10:31pm
    Dennis and Narelle. You must be living in your own little world because you'll find that channel 9 is now Murdoch's interest and no one could be more extreme Right Wing and Capitalist than Murdoch. There is a monopoly there as the Murdochs also have interests now in Channel 7 and Channel 10
    Murdochs would also like the ABC to be non existent in it's current form so how can you say the Commercial media is not biased toward Labor. We can thank Minister Fifield for this. Just because Morrison is supposed to be a Christian does not necessarily mean he is an honest and genuine person. Many people in history have proclaimed to be a Christian and have done very bad things, by that I am not saying Morrison has done bad things I am not. All I am saying is that the LNP has constantly been in campaign mode from the time when they were in true Opposition after losing to Kevin Rudd and they have continued constantly even while in Government. It is about time they governed without denigrating the Opposition and ridiculous name calling all the time. Watch question time in Parliament sometime. Lastly your comment about Pensioners smacks of the tired old thing about Pensioners living off the poor Hardworking person supporting them with their taxes. Well don't you think that most of us terrible Pensioners have also been hardworkers who also paid taxes which supported our forebears. You sound like the typical capitalists who resent giving any one less fortunate than yourselves some of your taxes. Heaven forbid either of you ever fall on hard times and through some misfortunate lose some of your money. I would not be like you for anything.
    maxchugg
    10th Apr 2019
    12:54pm
    Grateful, don't let them get to you, and don't worry about their posts or having them removed - let them remain and let everyone who is even half reasonable see what unreasonable, ill informed bigots they are. When someone labels you a troll or demands proof for every statement you make, while he unashamedly pushes his point of view and never supports any of his nonsensical, hate filled comments with any supportive evidence, just have a laugh at his expense.
    maxchugg
    10th Apr 2019
    12:54pm
    Grateful, don't let them get to you, and don't worry about their posts or having them removed - let them remain and let everyone who is even half reasonable see what unreasonable, ill informed bigots they are. When someone labels you a troll or demands proof for every statement you make, while he unashamedly pushes his point of view and never supports any of his nonsensical, hate filled comments with any supportive evidence, just have a laugh at his expense.
    Anonymous
    10th Apr 2019
    2:50pm
    The selfishness and greed of some is unbelievable. Pensioners take handouts from the taxpayer every week to support themselves, yet they think it unfair for others - who may well be worse off in many cases, since many pensioners bought expensive homes or spent lavishly - to get a MUCH MUCH SMALLER amount as a refund of tax taken from their income before they received it.

    Aren't you pensioners who support ripping off SFRs ashamed of your selfishness?

    Why should you be favoured because you didn't save quite as much? Oh, that's right. You couldn't - through no fault of your own. And you ASSUME SFRs must have been more fortunate. Except you ASSUME that because it suits your greedy perspective. You really haven't got a clue. You just think you are more entitled than others.

    Think about this for a minute. SFRs are CONTRIBUTING up to $50K a year to the Treasury by being self-funded. If they NEED a few thousand in refunds of tax taken from their dividend to continue doing that. everyone should be cheering the government for having the good sense to support independence and self-reliance. After all, how many taxpayers pay that much in tax? Especially given that many SFRs don't even earn as much as they contribute.
    Eliza
    8th Apr 2019
    11:35am
    Yes ... the populous has lost trust in politicians... mainly because they continually betray their leaders and because they have individual ambitions of control that are more important to them than the wellbeing of the country and the whole of society within.

    However, It never ceases to astound me as to how bias and closed minded some people are.

    Someone tell me what is wrong with keeping an OPEN MIND and making WELL INFORMED decisions based on POLICIES Not PERSONALLY.

    Really, we have little choice but to vote, and we can only give it our best open minded shot.

    Maybe the whole incentive to become a political leader needs a total rethink and overhaul.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    1:49pm
    Too true.

    Anyone who has big ideas about running the world should start with a small vegetable garden - old German saying.
    Cowboy Jim
    8th Apr 2019
    4:24pm
    Just wondering what Adolf H. had in his vegetable garden - maybe beetroot, eh?
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    5:01pm
    Ha, ha.. thanks, Jim... Apoplexy Grade Beetroot or Barnaby Joyce Specials?
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    5:37pm
    Yeah Cowboy Jim. Morrison does a wonderful imitation of Goebbels.
    cat
    11th Apr 2019
    11:49am
    Hitler was a vegetarian according to a documentary I watched
    Paddington
    8th Apr 2019
    11:46am
    Thankfully Australia does not rely on some of the dinosaurs on here like climate deniers and people only thinking of themselves and not what benefits others. There are some good people who will put aside their own hip pocket to consider what will help others like the cancer initiative by Labor. Many of us want the young ones to be able to purchase a home as well like we were able to. What is best for the children, the youth and the next generation?
    annie
    8th Apr 2019
    11:52am
    My daughter will be hopefully able to buy a home when I retire in 5 years, I will give her my super, what little I have as a deposit or she will buy a house when I die, whichever comes first. It's really something to look forward to for her, isn't it. Time to get the wealthy teat suckers who reap Billions in welfare from the tax payer, back into government coughers. If they can't manage without the welfare then you obviously are doing it wrong. I am angry that so many Australian's are that stupid
    Sceptic
    8th Apr 2019
    12:09pm
    Who are you calling stupid when you spell "coffers" coughers"?
    Cowboy Jim
    8th Apr 2019
    12:15pm
    Depending on your age - giving your super away might bar you from the age pension. Then how will you be able to live?
    libsareliars
    8th Apr 2019
    12:47pm
    Well said both annie and Paddington.
    Rae
    8th Apr 2019
    12:52pm
    annie you can't give your super way and then get the aged pension. You have to wait 5 years at least after gifting more that $10 000 a year.

    Why can't your daughter save for a deposit and buy where it is affordable.

    We started out at Umina NSW and there are still affordable buys there even now. Never could afford Sydney. It's a rich person's word there now.

    Diagnostic services all have bulk billers now if you look for one and get your doctor to write please bulk bill on the referral. Labor cannot produce more providers though so wait times will possibly balloon out. There are no new hospital beds in the deal from what I can see.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    1:51pm
    I'd prefer that my extremely talented grandson not have to contend with affirmative action and with silly social science ideas like 'cultures of rape' in order for him to get the same chance as my grand-daughters.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    2:15pm
    Sceptic - an old maxim of mine is to never listen to the way a man (or a woman) tells a story - but to listen to what he (she) tells....

    Lak of sppeling iss nott an indkayshun your stoopid...... stoopid as stoopid does, as they allus say down in Green Bow....
    DaveL
    8th Apr 2019
    4:24pm
    Paddington. Mr Shorten had this theme about the young can afford a home after he introduces his Capital Tax And Negative Gearing changes. Why wait, give the young low income people the same tax offset that you enjoy. Save someone on $30,000 at least $1,500 a year. Why should they pay tax and you don’t. Ring back fairness.
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    5:39pm
    Sceptic: I suspect the comment was in regard to your uninformed posts bordering on propaganda. Still waiting for you to discuss the real facts rather then use smear.
    Misty
    8th Apr 2019
    5:54pm
    Annie not all people on welfare are "teat suckers" as you like to call them, some people, through no fault of their own, have to rely on welfare, who knows what might happen in the future, even you could perhaps have to rely on welfare, so don't knock all welfare recepients please.
    Anonymous
    10th Apr 2019
    6:42pm
    But people who saved but don't have enough to live on after being ripped off by Labor's unfair tax ARE at fault somehow?

    Double standards and hypocrisy prevail. Oh, and GREED.

    'Through no fault of their own" - but mostly it WAS through their overspending and poor management. They just either don't understand money management or don't want to admit they weren't good at it. Or they manipulated to pretend hardship so they would get public benefits despite not needing them. And now they think it's fair to ASSUME that others can afford to suffer deprivation. The great ENTITLED live off the public teat, but heaven forbid anyone else get a small tax benefit - no matter how needy they are, and no matter than they are contributing more than 100% of their income to support the teat suckers.

    Maybe the teat suckers would earn more respect if they showed some respect and human decency.
    Misty
    10th Apr 2019
    6:55pm
    OlderandWwiser howe insulting you are, I didn't think it was possible for you to reach the bottom of the barrel but you have, to say that most pensioners are on the oension because it is their fault is insulting and NOT TRUE, you are the one who should show some decency towards people who are more unfortunate then you through no fault of their own.
    Anonymous
    10th Apr 2019
    7:08pm
    No Misty. It's the greedy pensioners who have reached the bottom of the barrel. I can't find a single pensioner who wasn't way better off than I ever was - INCLUDING YOU, given your occupation and your husband's. That's fine. They chose to spend rather than save. Good luck to them. But now they want to steal from me and they claim superior entitlement because of their choice. And YOU specifically said I was responsible for my choices - thereby endorsing theft from anyone who made RESPONSIBLE choice to not be a teat sucker.

    How dare they live off other people's money and then denigrate and support theft from those who continue to contribute huge amounts to the Treasury by being self-supporting. What vile and disgusting creatures!

    When the greedy self-serving inhuman thieving scumbags stand up for fairness and respect, they will get the respect they deserve. Until then, they are greedy, self-serving inhuman thieving scumbags.
    Misty
    10th Apr 2019
    8:11pm
    Older and Wiser, I disagree with you, most pensioners worked and paid tax for their working life and their taxes paid for other people's pensions and so now it is their turn for the pension.
    Anonymous
    11th Apr 2019
    9:19am
    I never disputed that, Misty. But you deny that others have an equal entitlement. Why are pensioners more entitled than other people who paid their taxes all their working lives and ARE STILL PAYING FOR YOUR PENSIONS AND NEVER GET A TURN?

    'You greedy, unfair Labor voters don't even acknowledge their right to fair taxation. SELFISH HYPOCRITE RIGHT THERE.
    OlderandWiser
    11th Apr 2019
    11:22am
    lol O&W, May 18 now so not long after that your FC's go west old boy. Let's see you whinge then, nothing you can do or say. Also the negative gearing rort will be addressed.
    If you haven't diversified by now old boy (and it's you choice to or not) then tough titty if you get stung.
    Anonymous
    11th Apr 2019
    9:30pm
    I doubt Labor will get their blatantly DISHONEST FC policy passed. Certainly we should HOPE that the Senators are not so corrupt or inept that they would approve a policy based on blatant lies, wrong figures, and totally outdated data - knowing, as everyone with intelligence does, that the policy was concocted in haste, and carelessly, and modified in greater haste and with even less care, and that it was never intended to save money - but to achieve political objectives.

    But you keep up your greedy, self-serving ranging, SFR - showing the world what a scumbag you are. You evidence just how pathetic and vile our society has become,
    Anonymous
    11th Apr 2019
    9:30pm
    I doubt Labor will get their blatantly DISHONEST FC policy passed. Certainly we should HOPE that the Senators are not so corrupt or inept that they would approve a policy based on blatant lies, wrong figures, and totally outdated data - knowing, as everyone with intelligence does, that the policy was concocted in haste, and carelessly, and modified in greater haste and with even less care, and that it was never intended to save money - but to achieve political objectives.

    But you keep up your greedy, self-serving ranging, SFR - showing the world what a scumbag you are. You evidence just how pathetic and vile our society has become,
    OlderandWiser
    11th Apr 2019
    9:50pm
    Well O&W calling me names won't help will it and repeating it as always.
    Well I really hope the ALP do get their double dipping FC legislation through so people like you who just whinge & carry on about "poor me, poor me" will have nothing more to whinge about & while they are at it get rid of the rorting negative gearing with no grandfathering etc.
    You keep saying you can't get out of your financial situation. BOLLOCKS, YOU CONTROL YOUR FINANCIAL PORTFOLIO, no one else so if you are supposedly stuck with what you've got then it's your doing entirely as YOU made the CHOICE in the first place, not the LNP, not the ALP, certainly not me, BUT YOU.
    And I won't stoop to name calling either as the gutter is where you are obviously & I don't want to go that low in life.
    Have a nice day every day & including 18th May. lol
    Farside
    11th Apr 2019
    10:42pm
    O&W, if you "doubt Labor will get their blatantly DISHONEST FC policy passed" then why are you so agitated by the prospect. Let FC refunds slide and move on to another issue that gets you all hot and bothered.
    Anonymous
    15th Apr 2019
    3:44pm
    Because, Farside, people need to stand up for decency and social harmony, and not allow any political party to lie and demonise good people and practice these policies of division. Nothing as dishonest and patently destructive as Labor's FC policy should be allowed to 'let slide'. People MUST acknowledge this evil. Look at SFR's post - actually WISHING hurt on others. When society degrades to that degree, the party driving it must be held to account. The lies cannot be allowed to continue to destroy society,
    Paddington
    8th Apr 2019
    11:57am
    We just received our next home insurance and noted that a sizeable amount of the cost included taxes such as GST and stamp duty. So, everyone already pays taxes. It amounted to one fifth which is not 10%. The poor should not even need to pay tax on their pay. I imagine that it is across the board on other purchases too, many of which are necessities. Everyone is contributing even if they are unaware.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    1:51pm
    Yes - everybody pays taxes - those who argue that they pay too much are talking through their hats.
    Cowboy Jim
    8th Apr 2019
    5:02pm
    Well if you drive a car, smoke a few fags and drink quite a few beers you certainly pay more tax than the water, tea and biscuit brigade. Bring in the GST on everything instead of lifting it on stuff I like.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    10:11pm
    Four major food groups - car fumes, tobacco, pies and beer.... extremely healthy.... you never get cancer with that (you don't live long enough)....
    mrswong
    8th Apr 2019
    11:59am
    Make it first past the post election abolish preferences
    The Bronze Anzac
    8th Apr 2019
    12:29pm
    We would need a REFERENDUM to change the rules. Neither the LNP nor ALP would sanction that, so we are in-between a rock & a hard place.
    Tom Tank
    8th Apr 2019
    12:54pm
    First past the post is a rotten system as one can win the seat with 35% of the vote which means that 65% of those who voted actually voted against the person who won the seat. Elections are not sporting events but in this country they do try to find the person who has the greatest level of support across the board.
    It's not a perfect system but the best that is in current use anywhere in the world.
    Tom Tank
    8th Apr 2019
    12:54pm
    First past the post is a rotten system as one can win the seat with 35% of the vote which means that 65% of those who voted actually voted against the person who won the seat. Elections are not sporting events but in this country they do try to find the person who has the greatest level of support across the board.
    It's not a perfect system but the best that is in current use anywhere in the world.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    2:18pm
    Not too sure about that, Tom Tank:-

    "The Constitutional Framework

    The framers accepted that the initial election for the Commonwealth Parliament would be held on the basis of State laws. The implication was that each State group of Senators and Members would initially reflect the distinctive electoral mechanism of their State of origin. Each State devised its own procedures to elect the original class of Commonwealth legislators. Most States organised their House of Representatives elections around separate divisions and used the plurality system of first-past-the-post voting. "

    It seems this is more of a convention developed over time by - you guessed it - the politicians who benefit from it.

    If so - it is easily changed. "poof" ..... what is your second wish, Master?
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    2:19pm
    If 35% is the majority voting for one candidate, surely that is majority democracy in action??
    Rod63
    8th Apr 2019
    4:35pm
    Trebor - 35% is not a majority. The idea of preferential voting is to eliminate less popular candidates to get to a majority.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    5:03pm
    If it's more than any other preference (wrong word, but hey) it IS a majority. If one candidate has 35%, another 30%, one 25% and the rest 10% between them - 35% takes the pot...
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    5:05pm
    It stands to simple deduction, Watson, that if 35% prefer one candidate and all other candidates receive a lesser vote - the 35 Per Cent Solution IS the popular one. Elementary.... now leave me to my violin... I'm working on a case....
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    5:41pm
    mrswong: do you think the Liberal Party would even half accept this way of thinking? It is used to ruling no matter what it takes to get the numbers and control the 'news' and talkback radio. We are all in a game with crooks governing for the few at the top.
    The Bronze Anzac
    8th Apr 2019
    12:02pm
    Your last sentence should be followed. Yes, we need to vote for the better of two evils. Due to our current duopoly voting system, coupled with the flawed preferential voting, only either the LNP or the ALP can Govern Australia. So, it's best to vote for the LNP & place the ALP last, with the Greens second last. All other Parties & Independents somewhere in-between. We need a referendum to change this bad & flawed system, but neither Party would allow that, as that Party would implode. It would also be best to get the Senate stacked with Conservative Parties or Independents, to try & gain the balance of power & keep the bastards honest.
    casey
    8th Apr 2019
    12:07pm
    I agree with your comment. Time we done away with the preference system. One vote one person, end of story.
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    5:44pm
    A post straight from party HQ. I think you meant put the crooks last. Given the last 6 years that's different to the song you are singing but most people on this website understand that. Trolls and rusted ons count for zip because they prostitute themselves for payment.
    Old Geezer
    8th Apr 2019
    6:32pm
    I agree Bronze Anzac.
    Dot
    8th Apr 2019
    12:03pm
    A vote for Bill Shorten is a vote for a shorter life for me.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    5:05pm
    How so, Dot?
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    5:45pm
    Maybe but the current bunch of rich man's representatives have done a lot for the big end of town and zip for you I dare say. How are you managing with your household budget?
    Old Geezer
    8th Apr 2019
    6:33pm
    Exactly Dot.
    Scorpion
    8th Apr 2019
    12:16pm
    A vote for Bill Shorten is a vote for the Greens and the Unions and in all honesty I couldn't support them even with the alternative being the coalition. The Greens will end up closing Australia down and we will end up with nowhere to go as they enforce their bullshit climate rubbish ect on National Parks,etc. The Unions will continue to price us out of competition which has seen many jobs and manufacturing going to other countries and all the work will go overseas ending thousands of jobs. The labor party will flood the nation with immigrants and tax us higher to support them and spend like drunken sailor until we are broke. There will come a time which will not be too far away when we have nothing else to sell to get the debt reduced. I'm not keen on the alternative but I look at the future for our younger generation with Labor in control and it scares me. It's unfortunate that we can get a stable majority to govern and stop all this bargaining with the smaller parties.
    Rae
    8th Apr 2019
    12:57pm
    The sale of that 200 000 hectare wheat and wool property to foreign owners indicates that our young people really don't want to do the hard work and invest in Australia. If they expect someone else to keep providing for them they will be in for a nasty shock.

    Western Australian grain and meat often supplies the east coast in drought times.

    Still the Saudi Government is on the job ensuring food security for their people. Pity neither of our Parties give a concern about water or food security.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    1:54pm
    Let alone energy security, Rae - a national security issue - at a time when Oz holds three weeks petroleum etc, and the threats are right there on the horizon for any with eyes to see.

    2019 - Year of Decision..... I guess that's the time for the start of WW III - and I haven't even written that series yet... just WW IV.
    Rae
    8th Apr 2019
    2:49pm
    Yes TREBOR. I was also in the Australian Army for a decade or so and I listened to the debate about the storage of our fuel in Singapore and thought they had all gone mad. Perhaps replacing experienced public servants who had studied history with a new bunch who obviously haven't was a terrible idea.
    Rod63
    8th Apr 2019
    2:57pm
    "A vote for Bill Shorten is a vote for the Greens and the Unions"

    Completely wrong. Only people in Shorten's electorate can vote for him. The Uinons (sic)are not running in the election and Labor is completely independent of the Greens.

    And what is this, " bullshit climate rubbish"? Are you not concerned by the impacts of anthropological climate change?
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    5:09pm
    I knew we were on the same page, Rae... I've also studied national security and terrorism and such... it's as plain as the nose on my face (a fine one it is, too - exceeding that of my Maltese girlfriend) that the current crop of 'leaders' we have in this nation have no idea at all, given their readiness to abandon common sense in their pursuit of internationalism in some form or another.

    I'm a Sinn Feinist myself - Australian version - We Stand Alone Together! But whatever - we must stand together for ourselves and our nation first.
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    5:46pm
    The paid trolls are out in force today Scorpion. An election is clearly near. Carry on but most of us have made up our minds and no amount of lies and BS will change that.
    Misty
    8th Apr 2019
    6:02pm
    I don't know about bull sh-t climate rubbish but most of your comment is a load of rubbish Scorpion.
    Rae
    8th Apr 2019
    12:29pm
    I'm in the both bad camp. They have done absolutely nothing for me at all in the last 20 years except that $900 Labor gave to boost the economy in the pits of the GFC.
    I'll be giving the $2.75 or whatever to the Independent.
    It won't matter which party gets in as non of the policies apply to my group of independent retirees.
    Paddington
    8th Apr 2019
    12:36pm
    Well, maybe, just maybe, consider others especially those yet to be born and what kind of world you are leaving for them.
    Why does it have to be what you get out of it, perhaps think more broadly about policies and what helps in the long run and who is helped most.
    Rae
    8th Apr 2019
    1:15pm
    Paddington I spent 45 years teaching and raising my kids alone after my husband died in an industrial accident. I paid my own mortgage, lost a house during the 1992 recession, paid all my own childcare and even paid for my superannuation income stream after tax.

    I'm Indigenous but have never claimed any government benefits.

    I worked for two decades growing out trees with Rotary for dune restoration and worked as an environmental activist to save mangroves and forest areas.

    Why does it always have to be someone else getting support and not me? Why did my kids have to eat weetbix for two days each fortnight and I go hungry to pay forced superannuation after tax that is now deemed at !0% non concessional when in reality it is 48% non concessional, and 37% tax after $6000 as well. I missed all those tax cuts.

    This is the first time I've said What about me It isn't Fair I've done my bit and I want my share and you haven't said why I shouldn't get a bit of all the money being flung to everyone.

    All those decades of struggling on I was promised retirement would be just fine and I'd get a concession card. Well I don't and it's not fine.

    I've also fought against the fascist policy of privatisation. If anything that will be what brings Australia and future generations down providing Global Warming doesn't end the human race which is entirely possible.

    In the long run we are all dead.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    2:20pm
    You go, Rae! Well done.
    Captain
    8th Apr 2019
    2:48pm
    Rae, you are one of the many who have worked hard for years to provide the best they can for themselves and their children.

    You are entitled to ask "what about me", as the social contract when the baby boomers commenced their working lives was that there would be a pension at the end of their working lives.

    Our parents paid for their parents pensions, we paid for our parents pensions, all without a protest, and now the Liberals change the Asset Limits downwards and cause 93,000 part pensioners to lose their part pensions and 374,000 part pensioners to lose upwards of 80% of their part pension. Now Labor want to take away SFR's dividend imputation credits but leave others to still receive the credits!

    What about us?

    I also was part of the protest movement trying to stop privation of Australia's assets.

    Rae, best of luck in the future.
    Rae
    8th Apr 2019
    2:58pm
    Thank you Captain and TREBOR I'm sure we will be fine. We are a resilient family who support each other.

    I also supported my dad for years when his second wife took all his assets. My kids will look after me I have no fear of that.

    There are too many takers in Australia and not near enough sharing fairly going on anymore.
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    5:47pm
    Perhaps Rae but the transfer of money to the wealthy should slow down or even reverse. That can't be a bad thing.
    GeorgeM
    8th Apr 2019
    8:51pm
    Good on you, Rae. Many of us have worked hard for achieving the best for our families, and are entitled to ask - what the hell are these takers of our money doing in return for us.
    Yes, BOTH major parties are trash, as both don't care about retirees and only look after themselves and their mates, and must be voted OUT. At the very least, they should be considering Universal Age Pension for all without any moronic tests, other than Age and Residency - that would give a basic return to all, and also allow all to do better than that if they can or want to without being punished.

    Not sure what you mean, MICK, a very recent YLC article quoted from research by a Professor which concluded that the rich-poor divide is set to keep increasing based on current policies. Voting for the same Tag Teams in turns is not going to give a different result.
    Old Man
    8th Apr 2019
    12:34pm
    I'm resigned to the probability of a Shorten government. I'm concerned about a couple of policy announcements; firstly the one that will stop farmers from clearing their land which may have an effect on the cost of their produce which will translate to higher prices to the consumer. Farmers, by and large, are more concerned about the environment than those city Greens who live in the concrete and cement world. Farmers' livelihood depends on the environment so why would they deliberately destroy their own business? It is also against a "fair go" that Shorten talks of, having government dictate what one can do with heir own property.

    Secondly, the 50% electric car thought bubble is so wrong in so many ways. Add to that madness that Shorten claims that Australia will build its own cars and batteries. That will mean staring from scratch and competing against countries with lower wages and lower electricity and oncosts. In the event that electric cars will form 50% of the Australian car fleet, that will also have two adverse effects, fuel tax will be down 50% and the use of electricity for households will be increased. The infrastructure to build charging points all over the nation has not been planned or costed nor has the amount to be charged to the motorist for using the charging points.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    1:56pm
    When living down south, it was a regular thing on the radios to hear all about runaway bushfires - look at Canberra. When farmers suggested that they graze cattle under the trees in national parks, they were jumped on like vermin for even suggesting such a thing.

    I used to monitor the radios, BTW....
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    5:53pm
    OM: land clearing should be stopped as this is a driver of climate change. Paying farmers to revegetate is what the current crop want to call environmental action but its pretty sick to allow clearing and then pay them to plant trees.
    You may be a dinosaur but for God's sake LOOK AROUND THE WESTERN WORLD. Australia is a total desert with electric cars because the coal owned government has refused to keep up with our competitors. That'll be the real end of us if we stay in the age of the dinosaurs....and then decide we have to modernise after everybody had already done so. What's the definition of stupidity and ignorance?

    You may want to join the 21st century rather than the Liberal Party right wing OM. Think ahead, not back! Companies that do so thrive whilst those who cling to the past die.....which is what you propose for the nation.
    Misty
    8th Apr 2019
    6:09pm
    On Sky News today the CEO of an Electrical Car company said we already have a few stations that can charge electric cars for 10-15 minutes and with newer technology charging time will get less, India is aiming for 100% electric cars in the future, oh and btw the Morrison govt also said they want 50% electric cars too, in the same time frame as Labor, just not a target, this was said in Senate estimates today.
    Misty
    8th Apr 2019
    6:13pm
    Why shouldn't Australia be able to build these charging stations?, just think of the jobs that could be created, why do we have to always be the ones to lag behind what the rest of the world is doing, time we grew up and stood on our own 2 feet.
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    8:49pm
    Of course Misty. The BS and propaganda from the current coal owned government is just lies. The reality is that we need to catch up to the rest of the world whilst Morrison and his cronies are trying their best to sell out the nation for the benefits of the fossil fuel industry. The clown appeared on the (not) news tonight raving about 4WD owners having their cars confiscated if we get electric cars. Likely the moron has been reading horse & buggy stories and is trying to run the same spiel.
    maxchugg
    9th Apr 2019
    6:11pm
    Electric recharging stations right across the Nullabor? One thing that can be said, it would boost employment for a time if it could be afforded and if, after all the coal fired power stations have gone, it was a reliable supplier of electricity.
    maxchugg
    9th Apr 2019
    6:11pm
    Electric recharging stations right across the Nullabor? One thing that can be said, it would boost employment for a time if it could be afforded and if, after all the coal fired power stations have gone, it was a reliable supplier of electricity.
    Spud
    8th Apr 2019
    12:35pm
    You never vote in the opposition you vote out the government! If they deserve it ! Do they deserve to be voted out ? On the disunity alone imo yes they do deserve to be sent to the opponents benches .
    Paddington
    8th Apr 2019
    12:40pm
    Me, me, me, my hip pocket, my shares, my extra houses, what’s in it for me!!!
    Ask these questions instead:
    Which policies will benefit my great grandchildren the most?
    Which particular policy is the fairest and kindest?
    What policies will make for a better world?
    Who is speaking to me the most that makes the most sense will achieve the most and best for everyone?
    libsareliars
    8th Apr 2019
    12:50pm
    +100. You are talking my language Paddington. I'm so tired of the rampant greed and selfishness of some people. They think only of themselves.
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    5:54pm
    Well written Paddington. Sadly we have rusted ons and trolls who play the tune of a decaying government trying to pull the nation into a rotten barrel of apples and ruin the future of the next generation.
    KSS
    9th Apr 2019
    7:36am
    And if you don't have Grandchildren?

    Then it is all about 'me' and the now, right?
    Anonymous
    10th Apr 2019
    3:02pm
    I'm really tired of the rampant selfishness and unfairness that somehow deems pensioners entitled to live off our children's tax dollars while they scream that people who spent their lives saving to NOT BE A BURDEN ON SOCIETY IN OLD AGE should be screwed over and robbed of their savings. And they LIE, using vile words like 'rorting' to imply that anyone who saved to be self-sufficient did something wrong.

    Many SFRs worked bloody hard, paid tax honestly - with 0 benefits - had little or no employer-funded superannuation - but made sacrifices to save and are now contributing far more to the Treasury annually than the vast majority of taxpaying workers. Yet selfish pensioners claim ENTITLEMENT to taxpayer funds and support depriving people who have LOWER incomes than pensioners, NO CONCESSIONS, and are probably contributing far more to the Treasury annually than they have to live on.

    Yes, they can use their savings. Why bother to save purely so that other people can benefit. If I saved half as much, I'd have DOUBLE the income and not touch my savings. What's the point of saving? I saved to benefit the taxpayer, and now I'm being demonized, lied about, falsely accused, and threatened with lifelong deprivation for doing so.

    SHAME ON ALL GREEDY PENSIONERS. (No, not ALL pensioners. The GREEDY ones who support what Labor is doing and lie about SFRs)
    floss
    8th Apr 2019
    1:05pm
    Remember Joe Hockey.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    1:59pm
    The AFP are still hunting for him... I think ... but he's hiding in the US somewhere...
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    5:57pm
    And being paid handsomely along with his parliamentary pension as the cream.
    White collar criminals seem to do well in our country not that I am suggesting Hockey is one, but he did try to crush working Australians who he was demanding pay for the GFC years debt whilst his mates at the top end of town were to be given the money raised as tax cuts from what I recall..
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    10:16pm
    Crooked as my walking stick engraved by a Major of the Scots Guards.... and tht's pretty crooked...
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    10:18pm
    Aye - there were a cruiked mon, Oo walked a cruiked mile, E' 'ad a cruiked leg, an e' 'ad a cruiked smile!!
    KB
    8th Apr 2019
    1:06pm
    Current polls predict that Labour will win the next election.Morrison is far ahead as preferred prime minister. I intend to vote Labour but do not like Bill Shorten Current government is useless
    KB
    8th Apr 2019
    1:06pm
    Current polls predict that Labour will win the next election.Morrison is far ahead as preferred prime minister. I intend to vote Labour but do not like Bill Shorten Current government is useless
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    8:51pm
    Ditto. I refuse to vote for a bunch of malicious low life MPs trying to get a dictatorship going in our country. It matters not if Shorten is average as long as he does the job. I think he will as long as the current batch are not able to sabotage the process in the senate. They will try as they have zero respect for the country or its citizens other than the rich.
    Anonymous
    10th Apr 2019
    2:38pm
    A vote for Labor is a vote for slavery. A feudal society in which there is no point working but you will be forced to - for no reward. The rich will get richer and anyone no born rich will be totally screwed. Blind Freddy ought to be able to see that stripping hard working retirees of their savings and making it futile to save for retirement is the first step in that direction. Why would you make it more appealing to be a pensioner than to save if not with the long term goal of suppression? Wake up fools!

    I hate the LNP and I despise what they are doing, but we simply cannot risk Labor's progression to slavery.

    BTW. They are also having secret talks planning to include the family home in the means test. Yes, I know they deny it. They deny a lot of things. They are very good liars.
    Misty
    10th Apr 2019
    7:01pm
    Oh and the other lot are not?.
    Farside
    10th Apr 2019
    10:14pm
    "Slavery" ... do you really believe this or is it just another instance of over the top hyperbole? There is no chance of a labor government reducing us to actual slavery in the next decade.

    Inclusion of family home in the means test is a good thing regardless who introduces this overdue omission, it's what they do with the test that counts.
    Anonymous
    11th Apr 2019
    9:14am
    I agree it won't happen within a decade, Farside. But it IS the goal.

    Labor's response to my objection that they will push the cost of the OAP way up by making untenable to be self-funded unless you are rich was - and I quote (from a top executive in Labor's policy-making division) -

    'We aim to eliminate the age pension within 15 years'.

    Me: "ScoMo said that was the LNP's aim"

    Response "'Who introduced compulsory superannuation? Who is pushing to have super contributions increased to 12%? We have to ensure that an adequate portion of the population can fund their own retirement, otherwise neither party will succeed in getting this policy through, but BOTH are agreed on a 15-year target to eliminate the OAP completely."

    Me: "But it's a well accepted belief that vast numbers will not be able to fund their own retirement even with a 12% contribution - and even if they top up to the best of their ability with voluntary contributions. And in 15 years there will still be many who didn't even have super for much of their lives."

    Response: "Yes. We understand that. But the frail aged can get a disability pension, and in some cases their partner will qualify for a carer pension. The fit and healthy will have to keep working or settle for Newstart, which we plan to increase marginally - though of course much of the working class population will need to work virtually until they die if they don't like poverty. That's as it should be. Us wealthy folk shouldn't have to pay for others to retire. Taxes are too high."

    Me: "This doesn't sound like Labor party policy at all."

    Response: "It is the policy of the current Labor Party. We share the LNP's view that there is a need to reduce the wealth of the lower and middle classes so as to make them more compliant. As automation reduces job opportunities, we fear demands that the wealthy support those who are disenfranchised by technology. We need social restructure to ensure the masses can't enforce this type of demand."

    The problem we face is that BOTH major parties AND the Greens agree on the goal and are broadly in agreement on how to get there. Unless we somehow break the stranglehold of the two majors, there is no hope. But the WORST thing we can do right now is elect a Labor Govt.
    Misty
    11th Apr 2019
    10:32am
    OlderandNotWiser, I don't know who you spoke too but I have just rung Bill Shorten's office and what you have written here is not Labor Policy, sounds more like you spoke to someone in the Coalition who want to keep raising the age of retirement until people do die before claiming a pension.
    Farside
    11th Apr 2019
    11:00am
    O&W, seems to me you are being distracted by a potential branding issue. I don't think slavery is the goal but rather a solution to demographic changes brought on by social and technological issues.

    I think the idea of superannuation will remain to reduce public funding for aged support. Perhaps what we currently know as the age pension transmogrifies into support that is not determined by age e.g. Newstart. Who would object if Newstart replaced the various pensions and different groups were relieved of obligations as appropriate? Perhaps this might be a step towards UBI being introduced. In any event a 15 year horizon is going to be a very different world from what we know today with the millenials entrenched in power and most baby boomers lamenting the pension fund demise either dead or past caring.

    I think you observe correctly that 12% (or even 15% as Keating envisaged) will be insufficient to wean low income earners from the age pension. However, a superannuation increase would undoubtedly make a difference to middle income earners and forget about high income earners, they are already outside the system (save the misguided minority that rort the system).

    Can you point to reference supporting your anecdote concerning subjugation of the masses is in policy? And none of what you say above identifies your motive to elect a coalition government except that it is not Labor. You mention the stranglehold of the two majors however we already experienced minority government, including one that was the first to deliver a AAA credit rating from each of the three agencies. Seems to me the easiest way to defeat the stranglehold is to elect the highest quality crossbench possible to be the conscience of government and keep it close to the sensible centre of politics.
    Anonymous
    11th Apr 2019
    9:26pm
    OMG! Poor Misty actually believes the lies Shorten's office tells. Unbelievable anyone could be that gullible! Misty, do you actually understand the REAL world or do you live in la la land with the fairies?

    Shoten's office ALSO said more than half of cash franking credit refunds go to people with more than $2,4 mil in super. In fact, that's garbage, because people with that much pay tax and claim the credits as a tax reduction. He ALSO says people shouldn't be double taxed, but he's happy for self-funded retirees to be TRIPLE taxed and ground into poverty.

    His office LIES. Misty. NOTHING they say is truthful and NOTHING they say can be believed by anyone with even half a brain.

    Farside, slavery IS the goal. Universal poverty, which brings with it subjugation. If Labor was at all sincere about making superannuation work as we, the people, would like it to, they wouldn't be grinding self-funded retirees who SHOULD retire with modest comfort into poverty with cruel and unfair policies that make it pointless to even try to save for retirement. Wake up and smell the roses! You are another whose idealism is blinding you.
    No, superannuation WILL NOT make a difference to middle income earners, because Labor wants to ensure they DO NOT BENEFIT FROM IT. Labor is making middle income earners worse off than pensioners - forced to drain their savings away to achieve a livable income. But keep dreaming. Nero fiddled while Rome burned, and Labor voters are now fiddling while Australia is threatened with burning. Yes, we need a strong cross-bench. But more than anything else - and I never thought I'd say this - WE MUST KEEP SHORTEN OUT OF THE LODGE. He is the most dangerous man ever to enter Australian politics. He WILL wreck the country. Did you hear him tonight when asked about $200 mil in extra taxes? He grunted and avoided the question. Because that's his plan - to rip off families and retirees to fund his stupid extravagances, and to send the nation broke.
    Anonymous
    11th Apr 2019
    9:37pm
    Misty, you do know that the staff in Shorten's office roll about the floor in hysterics after your calls, laughing about the dopey woman who keeps ringing up asking idiotic questions and happily swallowing the lies they give in answer?

    Farside
    - can I point to a 'reference'? Come now! You don't really think politicians would be stupid enough to expose this information to the wider public do you? They keep their true intentions very close to their chests, though their goals ought to be very obvious from their conduct. You don't impoverish hundreds of thousands of people unfairly if your goal is to improve retirement for the mases! You don't tolerate Newstart at horrendously low levels if your goal is to use it to provide a decent living for retirees after you cancel the OAP (and Labor had plenty of scope to FORCE an increase if they wanted to).
    Misty
    13th Apr 2019
    12:58pm
    What are you going on about OlderanNotWiser, if I am gullible as you say, then you obviously MUST BE TOO, other wise why would you believe WHAT YOU SAY SOMEONE FROM LABOR POLICY MAKER TOLD YOU, you can't have it both ways O&W.
    Anonymous
    14th Apr 2019
    6:59am
    Oh, so you are now admitting that your posts here were lies, Misty?

    See, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you were being truthful. I'm not gullible. I just don't automatically assume a person is lying.
    Anonymous
    14th Apr 2019
    6:59am
    Oh, so you are now admitting that your posts here were lies, Misty?

    See, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you were being truthful. I'm not gullible. I just don't automatically assume a person is lying.
    Misty
    14th Apr 2019
    8:33am
    Where is your comprhension O&W I am not admitting anything, just pointing out the obvious, you want people to believe that the Labor person that you spoke too is telling the truth but the Labor person I spoke too is not, people can draw their own conclusions from this.
    Anonymous
    15th Apr 2019
    3:38pm
    Misty, there is a HUGE difference between believing propaganda clearly designed to pacify the gullible and win votes and believing rational, objective comment that is backed up by clear facts and evidence. Unlike you, I verify everything by fact checking and inspecting evidence. I'm not stupid enough to draw any conclusions without delving deep to find solid evidence.
    Misty
    15th Apr 2019
    5:42pm
    Oh and how did you double check that what the Labor person told you was fact, O&W, and how do you know that I didn't check to see if I was being told the truth by ringing other Labor MP'S?.
    Misty
    15th Apr 2019
    9:06pm
    I don't know who you spoke to in the Labor Party O&W but that is rubbish, no genuine Labor person would say, "People may have to work until they die if they don't want to live in poverty and that us wealthy people shouldn't have to pay for other people to retire", it doesn't matter wether you spoke to this person by phone or personally, that is beside the point, it is the substance of the conversation that matters, so why should anyone believe you and not me?
    floss
    8th Apr 2019
    1:08pm
    Remember the Mad Monk saying we will not touch pensions, I have a long memory.
    Rae
    8th Apr 2019
    1:24pm
    Yes floss. Labor will get my preference simply due to that lie and the consequences. Apparently we must look after everyone else now and to tell the truth I'm a tad over it these days.

    My well of human kindness is fast running dry just as the rivers are.
    Mad as Hell
    8th Apr 2019
    1:59pm
    Agree with you floss and Rae. The 2017 changes to the Pensioner Assets Test was a absolute con based on lies of the age of entitlement being over. Pensioners deserve better than having their assets stolen by LNP and Greens.
    Magic Touch
    8th Apr 2019
    3:37pm
    Mad as Hell you are very right.. we know what happen on2017 changes.
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    8:53pm
    He tore up a hell of a lot more promises other than pensions floss. The guy is a lying coal man. Remember he had to run over to the US to visit Murdoch after the election. A dog to his master? It reminded me of that.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    10:20pm
    ... and the ABC.. don't forget the ABC .......

    Someone on another forum posted a list of Abbott's Broken Promises... I think they reached fifty or so... where's my $550?

    I posted a series online called "Abbott Crash Investigations"...... nothing like comedy to take the wind out of the sails of a blowhard who couldn't lie straight in his grave ....
    floss
    8th Apr 2019
    1:10pm
    At least Shorten had the guts to tell Murdock where to go.
    Cowboy Jim
    8th Apr 2019
    4:29pm
    And did Rupert listen to what Shorten had to tell him? Doubt it somehow. Worked for him once and he would eat Billy for breakfast if he was tasty enough.
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    8:55pm
    I see the Murdoch propaganda rags are in full swing with their anti Labor spiel. The mongrel does the same thing over in America. He needs to be stopped and I sincerely hope Shorten enacts legislation breaking up the man's monopoly here as well as shutting down the dishonest propaganda.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    10:21pm
    .. and here I was of the belief there were laws against monopoly control of media..... me silly ....
    Rod63
    8th Apr 2019
    2:17pm
    "However, the Coalition faithful have conceded the fight, with half of all respondents saying they think Labor will win the next federal election. Only 25 per cent think the Libs can hold on. The Nationals did not receive a single vote and 22 per cent are on the fence."

    This is a stupid comment. Of course, the Nationals can't win the next election and neither can the Liberals for that matter. The government will be formed by Labor or the LNP, AKA the
    Coalition.
    The question was wrongly written in the first place and Leon should have known better.
    Fisherman
    8th Apr 2019
    2:58pm
    Quentin Bryce is former governor general of Australia. She is a knight of the Order of St John of Jerusalem. She concealed from electors the changes to the Commonwealth of Australia constitution, including removal of the Oath of Allegiance, without referendum.
    She is also Bill Shorten's mother-in-law. Unfortunate initials hey, Bill!

    https://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/images/stories/committees/emc/2014_Election/Submissions/No_28_Gerard_Donohue.pdf

    See items 1, 22 and 24

    Difficult to trust anyone in politics today?
    Farside
    8th Apr 2019
    7:18pm
    mutterings of a conspiracy muppet spreading FUD ... wrong on first two counts but yes, she is Bill Shorten's mother-in-law.

    who cares if QB is in the Order of St John, it was announced when she joined
    https://web.archive.org/web/20080530002136/http://www.govhouse.qld.gov.au/the_governor/documents/qbrycecv_001.pdf

    COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA CONSTITUTION ACT - SECT 42
    Oath or affirmation of allegiance
    Every senator and every member of the House of Representatives shall before taking his seat make and subscribe before the Governor-General, or some person authorised by him, an oath or affirmation of allegiance in the form set forth in the schedule to this Constitution.
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    8:57pm
    Coal for all. Long live coal. There is no climate change. Natural variation. Sun activity. Scientist led conspiracy to bring down fossil fuel industry. The moon is flat........

    Ha ha ha. You crack me up coal man.
    Marten
    8th Apr 2019
    3:43pm
    Make it first past the post election abolish preferences, as I do not accept the view that preferences ought to be included in the final vote.
    This is the reason why I do not like the present Australian system of voting as compared with many other countries in the world.
    Rod63
    8th Apr 2019
    4:09pm
    But preference voting is much fairer as the person elected is approved by the majority, as candidates with less support are removed.

    With first past the post, in a large field of candidates, someone with a very small number of first preferences could win, although hugely unpopular with the great majority of voters.
    Cowboy Jim
    8th Apr 2019
    4:42pm
    Well, with first past the post you would not get people in we do so detest once they are in Parliament. Have no problem with Libs or Labor but do not like fringe dwellers and if Labor gets in on Greens preferences we will have loss of jobs, climate change crap, vegan militants invading meat producers and drug proponents. So give me Labor any day like it was under PM Ben Chiefly or even Hawkie and Keating but not Rudd!
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    5:12pm
    I think it might just stir things up a bit.... let some 'radicals' in and see how long they last... one way of getting rid of them for good...
    Misty
    8th Apr 2019
    6:18pm
    What about One Nation preferences going to the LNP Cowboy Jim?, that's ok is it?.
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    9:01pm
    Fair enough Cowboy Jim but most Australians are firmly behind the renewable energy tsunami. Other than the blind and those too stupid to see it should be obvious that the revolution is winning and there is no way back to the horse and buggy. There are of course a lot of problems and infrastructure to work out, something LNP government have intentionally avoided as they seek to sabotage they big change over coming.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    10:26pm
    New home next month - looking at a 7.5 Kw roof system - might expand to my own batteries and chop off the wires to the street.... putting in a 6.6, but looking to add a 1Kw fan upstairs as well...solar hot water on the shed roof with its own shower and stuff... maybe a self-sufficient system for the garage.....a 3.5 Kw system there would make it up to 11Kw ... bore out the back for the yard and a water tank.... pump(s) powered by solar system .... tank water makes better home brew beer anyway.. aye - an' distills wi' yer burnt barley be'er, too!

    Cutting the ties to the grid .......
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    10:27pm
    Might have to go six months on short beer ration to pay for it, though... oh, well...
    Marten
    8th Apr 2019
    3:43pm
    Make it first past the post election abolish preferences, as I do not accept the view that preferences ought to be included in the final vote.
    This is the reason why I do not like the present Australian system of voting as compared with many other countries in the world.
    Rod63
    8th Apr 2019
    4:09pm
    But preference voting is much fairer as the person elected is approved by the majority as candidates with less support are removed.

    With first past the post, in a large field of candidates, someone with a very small number of first preferences could win, although hugely unpopular with the great majority of voters.
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    9:02pm
    Agree Marten. The most popular person is the one who gets the most votes. Of course the rich cohort is a much smaller group and would fight tooth and nail to stop such a system.
    Baby Huey
    8th Apr 2019
    3:47pm
    Time to re-read Animal Farm and 1984.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    10:28pm
    We've had certain groups more equal than others for forty odd years now - why fix a good thing?
    Rae
    9th Apr 2019
    6:20am
    That is exactly what's wrong TREBOR. All the growing inequity. Different rules for different groups.

    Take the franking credit fiasco. It should never have started. Being bad do they get rid of it. No the rich still get it. Low income non taxpayers and SMSF will miss out but non tax paying government pensioners will still get it. How inequitable is that. And it's just one example.

    We need to get back to something that is fair, the same for everyone, supports genuine disadvantage and encourages opportunity.

    We are a long way from that after the last 30 years.
    Anonymous
    10th Apr 2019
    6:36pm
    But Rae, somehow those who live off the public purse think they are more entitled. To take something called a 'pension' from the public purse, with all its accompanying benefits, and contribute NOTHING to the Treasury is somehow okay, because you paid tax all your life and IT'S A RIGHT. (I agree, by the way!)

    But to take a small refund of tax taken from your dividend income, while contributing MORE to the Treasury than most taxpayers, and potentially more than 100% of your income, is 'rorting'.

    Labor voters have weird logic! Or they are just unbelievably selfish and unfair.
    Anonymous
    10th Apr 2019
    6:36pm
    But Rae, somehow those who live off the public purse think they are more entitled. To take something called a 'pension' from the public purse, with all its accompanying benefits, and contribute NOTHING to the Treasury is somehow okay, because you paid tax all your life and IT'S A RIGHT. (I agree, by the way!)

    But to take a small refund of tax taken from your dividend income, while contributing MORE to the Treasury than most taxpayers, and potentially more than 100% of your income, is 'rorting'.

    Labor voters have weird logic! Or they are just unbelievably selfish and unfair.
    Gee Whiz
    8th Apr 2019
    4:25pm
    Hawke, Keating, Rudd, Whitlam, Gillard. All union controlled and all complete disasters.

    Who would be stupid enough to elect another one of these corrupt union minions.

    Electing another union toady to the prime minister-ship is just asking for trouble.
    Gee Whiz
    8th Apr 2019
    4:25pm
    Hawke, Keating, Rudd, Whitlam, Gillard. All union controlled and all complete disasters.

    Who would be stupid enough to elect another one of these corrupt union minions.

    Electing another union toady to the prime minister-ship is just asking for trouble.
    Misty
    8th Apr 2019
    6:24pm
    The unions have done a lot for workers of this country, and others Gee Whiz, don't knock them, they helped me a get my job back after I was retrenched years ago but unfortunately they don't have the same power anymore and do not hold any sway over the Labor Party nowe, whatever you may think.
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    9:09pm
    That's quite untrue Gee Whiz. Who has told you such a lot of twaddle. None of the people you mention did as union leaders told them to although of course they had social policies as they were on the Labor side of politics.
    WHY are you so negative about unions? This is how the low life government runs the spiel. The truth is that without unions we would all have been slaves to the top end of town. Go have a look at Americans if you want to know how that plays out. And yes some union leaders have been despicable....but not all!
    Golfer
    8th Apr 2019
    4:29pm
    Anagram for LABOR PARTY is TRAP BY ORAL
    In other words they speak with forked tongues.

    And also remember folks, we have no manufacturing left in Australia because our labour costs (compliments of our unions) make us totally uncompetitive.
    Old Geezer
    8th Apr 2019
    6:23pm
    I agree/
    Farside
    8th Apr 2019
    7:29pm
    wage competitiveness is not the sole reason there has been a manufacturing decline in Australia. Plenty of manufacturing in other high wage countries like Germany and South Korea.
    MICK
    8th Apr 2019
    9:10pm
    That's right....its all Labor's fault and we should pay workers a cup of rice a day and triple what the top end of town takes home.
    The post of a rusted on cronie or troll Golfer. I feel sorry for you.
    Misty
    8th Apr 2019
    10:20pm
    So Golfer you want Aussie workers to get slave wages?, that doesn't work, look what happened in France when the rich ate cake and told the starving to eat bread, people won't put up with this these days and why should they, the trouble is with mums and dads and every Tom, Dick and Harry buying shares these days it is all about profit, as long as the shareholders get their dividends that is all that matters, not wether the workers are getting well paid, they come last.
    Rae
    9th Apr 2019
    6:28am
    A lot of manufacturers went after the electricity privatisation and rent hyper inflation made costs of business unviable. It wasn't about wages. Al the union nonsense about conditions and special benefits didn't help but electricity was the main issue. The Grid isn't reliable any longer. We can't even keep the smelters up and running and early man could simply using fire. The whole thing is one incompetence after another designed to make money for some favourite or benefactor.

    Yes Misty and Superannuation has turned most Australians into shareholders.

    I've been closely watching the Bond Markets. This is not going to end well. The loss of Capital is going to be enormous. Years of savings will disappear if we have one little glitch that rattles markets.
    Curious
    8th Apr 2019
    4:40pm
    I am not surprised that most voters are confused and frustrated with the current politicians of all persuasions. Although the coming federal election has not been declared, the major parties are running commentary on their election campaigns, foreshadowing what is to come. Are they tasting the water in formulating their strategies to outbid the opposition?

    Prima facie, it was great to hear the LNP Government's 2019 budget, outlining what financial benefits are giving out to voters, who matter most to this elections. As most voters don't trust the politicians, this may be regarded as pork-barrelling. This can an explanation for the result of the recent polling. If the politicians have any sense of caring for the community at large, please don't just throw the $billions at the voters. Please tell the voters what are your missions with this budget to deliver what outcomes, which will be beneficial to Australians. Just because of the allocation of $billion for hospital and education, they have no meaning to any voters. Is the policy to deliver better health care by shortening the waiting list, by providing better medical equipment, and recruiting world-class medical professional. Increase funding for Catholic Schools, as such is a divisive measure against the overall education system. Either Catholic education is so bad that we all have to chip in to save this sector at the expense of the rest of the education system. The government needs to appear to govern every Australian, not just a section of the community.

    Both major Parties promise a tax cut to help the lower and middle earners. The delivery of a healthier economy is based on the Keynesian Theory of the total spending and its effect on output and inflation. Keynesian Theory works best for the economy with competitive advantages. With the global economy, there are leakages, as we all know one-third of the corporations in Australia don't pay taxes. The question is, do we need overseas investment in Australia? If we do, can we afford some of them don't pay taxes on the earnings made on the Australian soil?

    With the recent NSW election, we came to be aware that most farmers are not happy with the National Party. This phenomenon is based on the belief that The National Party is in bed with the mining industry than with the primary industry. If this is true, I don't blame the disgruntled farmers. I remember last year, I have to dig deep to donate to our farmer for the drought. Australia has the most fertile soil and the agriculture industry has not been further developed as the food bowl of Asia and the rest of the world. Instead, the government allows foreign investors to buy up some of our best farms and husbandries. The existing farmers are constantly threatened with fracking for gas.

    Australia, throughout the last decade, has given up manufacturing and is in the throw of downgrading the agriculture industry. The mass production of our fruits and veggies for lucrative exports is only a dream. If Briext is in danger of failure, will Australia be in the position to help out?

    Australians are indeed in a conundrum what will our future hold for all of us. Until the politicians can answer this question, the preamble of the election campaigns has not meaning to any one of us. If anyone knows more, please enlighten us.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    10:30pm
    Run that past me slowly again - I looked.. saw how long.. and moved on....
    DogLover
    8th Apr 2019
    5:15pm
    All the union bashers should remember the many improvements the unions have made for workers in wages, conditions and safety. As for people who planned their retirement based on receiving franking credits, think of all the people who planned their retirement before Liberals reduced the pension asset test. If their assets exceeded the new reduced limit they lost the pension card entitlements valued at approximately $2000 per year and a part pension of approximately $4000 per year. If a retired person receives such a life changing amount in franking credits or negative gearing they must be very wealthy.
    Old Geezer
    8th Apr 2019
    6:22pm
    Those affected by the asset test changes are to get a double whammy under Labor with the loss of 30% of their income as well.
    Golfer
    8th Apr 2019
    6:46pm
    You know Tha labor could have opposed the liberal proposition! Oh no they AGREED 100%.
    Sundays
    8th Apr 2019
    8:44pm
    Actually Golfer, Labor did not agree. It was the Greens who voted with the Liberals clearly not understanding the harm they were doing.
    TREBOR
    8th Apr 2019
    10:35pm
    Nonsense again, OG - some affected by the asset test changes might endure a loss of unearned income from DI changes.. not many, though.

    Abolish DI entirely and pay your own taxes - no difference....as long as you ARE paying your taxes.... wouldn't you rather have that 30% paid to you in your shares handout instead of the company paying it for you (not for the company), and then run the risk of not getting a return on it if you pay zero tax? If you pay zero tax already - that 30% isn't going to tip you over the edge and you'll only pay part of it IF it is paid as dividend direct.

    Jeez - maybe if you are simply paid the full dividend and have no DI, you can still write the lot down to zero and that way you'll get it!!

    Wouldn't that be fun?
    Rae
    9th Apr 2019
    6:43am
    It is not fair that non tax paying government pensioners still get franked credits.

    If it is wrong then franking should be cancelled for everyone. This choosing winners and losers is unAustralian. Why companies are paying shareholders taxes for them is a good question.

    And OG is right. Those who who were able or who bothered saving have been unfairly targeted simply because they are a small group in number.

    Wait until many have to front up to Centrelink and all pensions need to be cut back before we comment on how clever all this discrimination is going to be.
    Anonymous
    10th Apr 2019
    2:31pm
    Labor asked the Greens to support the assets test change so it would pass without them endorsing it. They then declared they would NOT reverse it. And now they are totally screwing the victims of it by taking up to 30% of the miserable little income they have left, and socially demonising them with hideous lies to try to win support for what they are doing.

    They based their figures on figures from the Australian Institute which have been proved totally wrong. They are still refusing to come clean and admit that their figures are total nonsense because the transfer balance cap legislation achieved the claimed goal of taxing people with high superannuation balances and Labor is now only attacking poorer self-funded retirees. And their disgustingly unfair favouritism of pensioners means someone who bought a cheaper house is demonised and deprived. Those who spent up big on luxury cruises or gifted to kids are rewarded. The couple who delayed retirement is punished. The couple who put off their 'trip of a lifetime' to care for aged parents until their passing is punished for life.

    Anyone who can't see how disgusting this policy is has nothing between their ears.

    If Labor wanted to raise more taxes from rich self-funded retirees, why not tighten the transfer balance cap legislation further? If they want to raise taxes, reduce the obscene tax concessions for the wealthy. There are tons of ways to balance the budget if they chose to be honest and fair, but no. They are not concerned with the budget at all. They are power-mad and it's purely political.
    andromeda143
    8th Apr 2019
    5:29pm
    How short is the memory of voters, especially the dinosaur section. This government has been the most negative and self-serving in history as well as the most fragmented and inward looking. Yet here we are ready to "trust" them again for another round of uncaring and socially divisive cuts to this and that so that the wealthy can wax fatter and the gap between rich and poor can achieve new heights.
    It would be better if we could spare a thought for the legacy we are providing for our younger generations and support policies of better health and education, more compassion toward our fellows and less greed.
    Old Geezer
    8th Apr 2019
    6:18pm
    Problem is Labor Is going to ne even worse.
    Anonymous
    10th Apr 2019
    2:24pm
    'Socially divisive?" Doesn't get any more socially divisive than telling whopping lies to demonise anyone who saved for retirement but has only barely enough to income to live on, and justify stealing their livelihood.

    I hate the LNP, but I'd prefer them any day to a bunch of lying, thieving hypocrites who want to totally destroy the value of work and responsible living. When we've all given up striving because everything we achieve is taken away, then who will pay for all those 'services' Labor is promising to improve?
    Old Geezer
    8th Apr 2019
    6:40pm
    The problem is not who governs but who is going to stop the welfare mentality of this country where far too many people think because they are alive the country owes them a living. Very few want to work now so the masses want those who do the pay more than their fair share. We have got to a point where people are now can't see the benefit of working as if they do they get fleeced both by tax and then again when they retire.
    Farside
    8th Apr 2019
    7:36pm
    in a democracy isn't it ultimately up to the people to choose the quality of life, even if it means a reduction in national prosperity. Those with means can flee to a Xanadu leaving the rest behind to adjust to their circumstances. Plenty of examples in history of people making these choices.
    Rae
    9th Apr 2019
    6:49am
    Yes OG very few people accept the responsibility of being independent. Everyone wants the taxpayer to help pay for lifestyle choices now and the bottom line is we simply can't afford it. This is why debt levels are the highest they have ever been and many are living high lives way beyond reasonable means.
    Anonymous
    10th Apr 2019
    2:20pm
    Why try to be independent when all its gets you is social abuse (based on baseless accusations of 'rorting') and financial abuse? Shorten will make sure all but the very wealthy have the strongest possible incentives to avoid saving and demand an age pension. The whole system is geared to CREATE a welfare mentality, and every so-called 'reform' makes it worse.
    Misty
    8th Apr 2019
    8:46pm
    The only poll that counts is the one on Election Day.
    legs
    9th Apr 2019
    6:53am
    a lot of older Australians are sick of death with the major parties,you don't trust any of them,as they are mostly the same when it comes to their own wants,I have only ever once seen a politician a independent who spoke up about give themselves large increases in wages that they do each year,we need more people like he was. I would like to have at least 3 parties here Australia that are more equal and the voter has a good chance picking from them,unfortunatly that doesn't happen since Don Chip passed away and the Decomocats elepased from Government.who do you vote for? cant tell anymore,we need a different party that is transparent,honest,for the all the people wont sell Australia out to other countries and protect us,invest in people who live here and govern for everyone,also not slinging talk and doing what good for all,I know Im dreaming in wanting all this,what about yourself what do you really want!
    GeorgeM
    9th Apr 2019
    8:04pm
    You are 100% right, but don't give up hope. 20% even in this poll said they don't trust any party. As I recommended before above,
    BOTH Major parties and the Greens MUST be thrown OUT - we have tolerated them for far too long! Put them (the current MPs of these parties) LAST in preferences. The Retirees are one group ignored by BOTH, and we must act to get rid of them BOTH, by using the strength of 3 Million+ retirees votes. To achieve this, the best thing to do is to assign preferences very logically & purposefully - I recommend a strategy as follows:

    Put No. 1 for your favourite candidate (supporting Retirees preferably),
    Put all extremists at the end,
    Put your No. 2 as the one who you think can win and who may be acceptable to you, and
    Put the remaining in between such that the sitting Major party MP is definitely below the alternative Major party candidate (always keeping the Greens, being extremists, near or at the end).

    If enough people do this, you will a) know you did your best, and b) hopefully the useless sitting MP will lose their seat.
    This could mean a result which has a mixture of parties and independents. That will shake up the system with more action by parties in future to focus on what people want.
    Adrianus
    9th Apr 2019
    8:29am
    The over 55s have a more highly developed sense of reality compared to promises. As long term taxpayers we value the cost benefit relationship with government spending. The wasteful spending on wacky ideas designed to garner the support of a minority group with a single myopic agenda seems to have been given priority over what is good for everyone.

    The one thing we could do to stop the back room deals is remove preference voting.
    Lets make each vote count in the way it is intended.
    Cowboy Jim
    9th Apr 2019
    8:52am
    Absolutely right, Adrianus!
    Misty
    9th Apr 2019
    11:13am
    Never.
    mike
    9th Apr 2019
    7:45pm
    Hockey smashed the retirement plans of all those who worked and saved whilst filling his own pockets and boasting about it. Turnbull announced he would reinstate the Pensioner Consession card to all those who lost it due to Hockeys changes, but it was a lie. Now Shorten with his Retiree Tax Grab will finish of all retirees and those about to retire whilst announcing he doesnt care about retirees as he doesnt need their vote. Unfortunately Shorten will destroy this country and completely destroy the lives of all retirees so WE WILL HAVE TO VOTE LIBERAL TO KEEP SHORTEN OUT.
    Anonymous
    10th Apr 2019
    2:17pm
    Absolutely right, Mike. We simply don't have a choice.
    mike
    9th Apr 2019
    7:52pm
    To Grateful. Shorten whilst union secretary betrayed the workers at the Chequita Mushroom Company. Whilst pretending to be working on their behalf he made a deal behind their backs causing them to lose their jobs and then be interviewed for their own jobs by a labor hire company for fewer jobs at a much lower pay. Some employees with 12 - 15 years service didnt even get an interview, For this Shorten pocketed $24000, then he lied to a royal commision about his role in this scandal. This information is available on google. He is also accused of raping a 16 year old girl at a youth rally in 1986. Information sourced from the Herald Sun . So shorten has shown himself to be a liar, thief, fraudster, alleged rapist, and you feel he is fit to be our next prime Minister. Get real.
    Misty
    9th Apr 2019
    9:37pm
    Garbage mike, none of this was ever proved.
    Adrianus
    10th Apr 2019
    8:34am
    Bill Shorten was raised a catholic. But in 2009 he could see where that was headed, so he became an Anglican. A good thing too for Bill ;)
    Anonymous
    10th Apr 2019
    7:10pm
    Raised a Catholic - always a Catholic. That explains a great deal.
    Misty
    10th Apr 2019
    8:16pm
    What has being a Catholic gor to do with anything?.
    Anonymous
    11th Apr 2019
    8:54am
    You don't know, Misty? How sad. But then, you think Labor and Unions are wonderful too, so why not think a destructive religion is okay?
    Anonymous
    11th Apr 2019
    8:54am
    You don't know, Misty? How sad. But then, you think Labor and Unions are wonderful too, so why not think a destructive religion is okay?
    Misty
    11th Apr 2019
    10:14am
    There are good and bad in all religions Older and NOT Wiser, that does not make them all bad.
    Adrianus
    10th Apr 2019
    8:37am
    Why is Bill Shorten increasing our taxes to give money to electric car manufacturers? Which car manufacturer can he be thinking of?
    Oldchick
    10th Apr 2019
    10:24am
    I see all of the comments ‘don’t trust Bill Shorten, he’s a union man...blah, blah, blah’. Who do all you people think fought for the workers’ rights - the Unions. The Liberals came along, little Johnnie Howard and tore them down with Agreements that were all biased toward the employers. For most retirees they would have nothing at all behind them if it hadn’t been for the Unions standing up for them as a collective group in the workplaces they were in. The Liberals are controlled by big business, the Gina Reinharts, Adani’s, The Chinese who they allow to plunder water from Cubbie Station while our farmers suffer incredible hardship, other morning giants, etc. etc. They have always, and always will, look after them first and forget about the poorest in society. They don’t give the big donations to their party, invite them to swank dinners, give them free tickets to the ballet, sports games, line their pockets with gold. They’ve sold off our ports to the Chinese, allowing them to build their own airstrips on Aussie soil. Wake up people and realise not only are you being screwed by the LNP they are selling off our country before our very eyes. $185m spent on a political stunt to re-open Christmas Island detention centre, didn’t use it, now closing it again. That money would have paid a lot towards hospitals, or pensioners. They can’t get on with themselves, how can they successfully fun a Government and make solid decisions for the betterment of the Country.
    Oldchick
    10th Apr 2019
    10:24am
    I see all of the comments ‘don’t trust Bill Shorten, he’s a union man...blah, blah, blah’. Who do all you people think fought for the workers’ rights - the Unions. The Liberals came along, little Johnnie Howard and tore them down with Agreements that were all biased toward the employers. For most retirees they would have nothing at all behind them if it hadn’t been for the Unions standing up for them as a collective group in the workplaces they were in. The Liberals are controlled by big business, the Gina Reinharts, Adani’s, The Chinese who they allow to plunder water from Cubbie Station while our farmers suffer incredible hardship, other morning giants, etc. etc. They have always, and always will, look after them first and forget about the poorest in society. They don’t give the big donations to their party, invite them to swank dinners, give them free tickets to the ballet, sports games, line their pockets with gold. They’ve sold off our ports to the Chinese, allowing them to build their own airstrips on Aussie soil. Wake up people and realise not only are you being screwed by the LNP they are selling off our country before our very eyes. $185m spent on a political stunt to re-open Christmas Island detention centre, didn’t use it, now closing it again. That money would have paid a lot towards hospitals, or pensioners. They can’t get on with themselves, how can they successfully fun a Government and make solid decisions for the betterment of the Country.
    Adrianus
    10th Apr 2019
    11:05am
    " Who do all you people think fought for the workers’ rights - the Unions." -Jansview.

    Jansview, that was 40 years ago. Is that any reason to put them into government?

    We can only go so far into socialism before we get fully blown communism. Labor have a tight grip on our Schools, Universities, our ABC, and control the polls. They also have a very unhealthy attitude when it comes to successful business. Under Labor we had a trade deficit almost every month. The only FTA they were able to close in their 6 years was Chile, which further increased our trade deficit.
    This LNP government has a record trade surplus which has resulted in record unemployment and a balanced budget.
    The LNP believe in lower taxes and jobs. Labor believe in looking after their mates in big business (which are very few), destroying jobs and higher taxes.
    We cant afford Labor/Unions/Greens again.
    You may not like what happened on Christmas Island, but the locals think its great for their local economy.
    Anonymous
    10th Apr 2019
    2:15pm
    Well, as a 'working person', I was totally screwed over by the unions and almost lost my life because they refused to support demands that the employer comply with Workplace Health and Safety regulations. I resigned after receiving threats because I took a complaint to the WHS authorities - and in doing so saved lives. The union refused to support demands for danger money saying the job wasn't dangerous, but agreed (secretly) that the employer should take our superannuation contributions to pay the 'high workers' comp insurance' that was high because 'it's such a dangerous job'. Left without a cent of the super that I should have had.

    Please don't give me this BS about unions. They are for the UNION LEADERS and the fat cats like Shorten who ride on their backs. They only act for ordinary workers when doing so suits their own purposes.

    And now Shorten is indulging the stinking unions by screwing self-funded retirees who don't want to be in union funds. Only the funny thing is that the Labor-voting fools haven't figured out that he's also actually screwing workers. The average worker will be 9% worse off at retirement because of Labor's DI policy. No of course the lying union-run fund management won't admit it, but independent analysis PROVES it. Short-on-brains is screwing all of us, and some of you are cheering him for it. Mind boggling!
    Adrianus
    10th Apr 2019
    3:54pm
    OlderandWiser, I've heard a few stories similar to yours. People in NQ are trying to build a new football stadium while the construction union is doing everything to slow down the project. First it was a step which wasn't the exact dimension now its something about a workplace deal that a worker refuses to sign, so they called an illegal strike. The State government needs to stand up to these vandals. Imagine the bravado they would have if they win the federal election?
    Misty
    10th Apr 2019
    6:47pm
    Totally agree Jansview, they saved my job years ago when I was made reduntent, fought for our pay rises every year, I know there are some bad apples but that is so in all organisations, just look at the banks for example. It is garbage to suggest they have so much influence in the Labor Party, that is rubbish, I could turn around and say that big business controls the LNP but again that is nonsense, they have some influence no doubt but the LNP do what they want not, what big business wants them to do, just ad the Labor Party will do what it wants to do without outside interference.
    Adrianus
    11th Apr 2019
    8:56am
    Misty, your theory sounds ok until one realises that Labor and Unions are the same organisation. You cannot be a Labor MP unless you are a unionist. They are them. Labor is a Subsidiary of the Unions. They are one and the same.

    40 years ago we were all union members because they saved jobs. Today they are stopping jobs from being created.
    Adrianus
    11th Apr 2019
    8:56am
    Misty, your theory sounds ok until one realises that Labor and Unions are the same organisation. You cannot be a Labor MP unless you are a unionist. They are them. Labor is a Subsidiary of the Unions. They are one and the same.

    40 years ago we were all union members because they saved jobs. Today they are stopping jobs from being created.
    Misty
    11th Apr 2019
    10:19am
    Adrianus you are WRONG, do some research before making such statements, I have just rung my local Labor MP and was told No, they do not have to belong to a union, it is still A FREE COUNTRY AND THEY CAN CHOOSE wethet to belong to a union or not.
    Farside
    11th Apr 2019
    11:35am
    Adrianus, union membership has not been a mandatory requirement for ALP membership for some time so your views are outdated. It's not hard to confirm if you just check the new membership form (union members receive a small discount). https://www.viclabor.com.au/membership/join/
    Oldchick
    11th Apr 2019
    1:46pm
    I see all of the anti-union comments and to a degree I know what you’re saying. The union movement today is vastly different and the bullying tactics have emerged. However I’m probably older than a lot replying on here and I for one know that during my working life if it wasn’t for the Union I most definitely wouldn’t have received the pay rises I did. When my co-workers were facing redundancy they most certainly wouldn’t have received the redundancy payments they did. When John Howard was in office he bought in Work Choices instead and eroded the Union movement. It wasn’t to protect workers, no way, it was to protect the bosses, the factory owners, break down conditions so they could hire, fire and do as they pleased. His own brother shutdown his factory and didn’t pay his employees a cent, not even their own superannuation- and he got away with it because his LNP Prime Minister Brother had orchestrated Work Place Agreements that only supported the hierarchy.
    Adrianus
    11th Apr 2019
    10:00pm
    You had better tell that to Bill Shorten? And with that in mind you would have no problem listing Labor MPs who are not, or have not been members of a union.

    I suppose that's reflective of the society that you all live in but not main stream Australia.
    Adrianus
    11th Apr 2019
    10:00pm
    You had better tell that to Bill Shorten? And with that in mind you would have no problem listing Labor MPs who are not, or have not been members of a union.

    I suppose that's reflective of the society that you all live in but not main stream Australia.
    Peter H
    10th Apr 2019
    1:51pm
    I rather like the "clean slate protocol" from Ironman. Kick the lot out and start again. $250 a week for Newstart for older Australians is insult enough after working and contributing to the tax system is bad enough but always looking for ways not to pay the allowance at all adds insult to injury.
    ardnher
    10th Apr 2019
    7:00pm
    does anyone know of an ex Labor PM who is not extremely wealthy at the end of their reign?
    Misty
    10th Apr 2019
    7:07pm
    Does anyone know an ex Coalition PM who is not extremely wealthy at the end of their reign?.

    10th Apr 2019
    8:50pm
    I find it quite mind-boggling that anyone could think Labor will not ruin the economy.

    Pensioners cost the nation $30 - $50,000+ a year when admin costs and concessions etc are counted. So Shorten decides to punish all retirees who DON'T impose that cost, and create a situation where nobody except the very rich will want to be self-funded, because not only are the self-funded financially deprived, they are also being socially abused based on whopping lies told by Labor.

    Labor claims half cash franking credit refunds go to folk with more than $2.4 mil, but refuses to tell the truth and acknowledge that the LNP already addressed that issue and Labor is not touching those folk at all, but rather making self-funding impossible for battlers.

    So we are going to have hundreds of thousands MORE people costing the nation $30-$50,000+ a year. Vast numbers of those who can remain self-funded will cancel their private health insurance. Spending that drives jobs and growth will reduce. And the IDIOTS supporting Labor think that we will be better off with the miserable little savings Labor is LYING about achieving (because the TBC already saved half of what the Labor Idiots claim - and most of the rest will be lost in investment shifting and more pensioners).

    Plain common sense says this is a recipe for economic disaster. Billions more in pension and health costs because people can no longer afford to pay their own way - and all we needed to do to ensure they could still pay their way was leave their franking credit refund alone and reduce the TBC threshold further so more rich self-funded pay tax. Or cut the grossly excessive tax concessions on super for the higher income earners. But no, Labor would rather destroy battlers, remove forever all incentive to work and earn, and then bamboozle the gullible with nonsense numbers that are out of date and wrong.

    I can't wait for the day a Labor government screams that the cost of the OAP has risen too steeply and pensions have to be cut. It is coming if these dim wits are allowed to ruin the economy with their idiotic attack on people who are contributing.
    Adrianus
    13th Apr 2019
    11:19am
    Victoria has seen massive increases in AEC enrolments. Massive! Many electorates experiencing greater than a 20% increase.
    Adrianus
    13th Apr 2019
    11:21am
    Could this be where the expected swing originates?
    legs
    12th Apr 2019
    5:11am
    we need the voting system to change so that one vote for anyone,whom want to be elected ,this way minor parties or a independent can have a chance to form government,as it is now it a two way fight for the Liberals and Labor parties.If anyone want to go into politics they should receive a salary and not be able to full their own pocket with or receive large increases,they should be the same as every other worker in this country and get what the average pay increase is. All politicians are there to serve all Australians,and our country,I find it so hard to trust or believe in either major party.A lot of carrots by both parties are dangled to get your vote,let change the way we vote and make it fairer to everyone wanting to get into Govern in a honest transparent and fair way to all,Big change is wanting and needed in our system of voting,stop prefences in voting make it first pass the post wins,maybe this will help all

    13th Apr 2019
    7:20am
    The fools trusting Labor won't heed this warning, of course. From a reputable economist:

    "What would happen if Bill Shorten kept his promise on franking credits?

    In his budget reply speech, Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said that cash franking credits are gifts that are "costing taxpayers nearly $6 billion for every year — and growing so fast that it will soon be more than we spend on public schools...it’s just not sustainable anymore”.

    That is a strong statement from the ALP and spells out for the first time the real ALP agenda.

    Chris Bowen’s plan on franking credits would still leave lots of people enjoying cash franking credits and this would greatly lessen the impact.

    But the Bowen plan is not what his leader is promising.

    If the Bill Shorten plan was actually carried out, it would mean that more than one million people who will receive cash franking credits under the Bowen plan — including members of retail and industry superannuation funds — would not receive them.

    It would greatly shock a huge portion of the Australian population who, at this stage, don’t believe they will be affected because of the protection of industry and retail funds.

    It would mean a massive selling of banks, Telstra and other high-yielding franking dividend stocks. It would reduce the level of the sharemarket considerably and force a great many more Australians onto the government pension.

    It wasn’t until the budget reply speech that we saw clearly what the ALP thinks it is doing. Chris Bowen has declared that if you happen to be in a fund that has lots of wage earners, you can use the tax they pay to deliver you all the franking credits you are entitled to.

    Moreover, superannuation funds with plenty of wage earners are preparing products that will enable those with self-managed and other retail superannuation assets that are in pension mode, to receive their franking credits in full.

    Accordingly, in the superannuation movement, there is great hope that impact can be minimised. But watch that you are not caught by another trap.

    Many years ago, when the technology didn’t allow the current flexibility of the superannuation funds, many people in retirement mode were moved by the retail funds into separate units that had specialised retirement portfolios.

    That means that they are now not connected to the worker tax gravy train.

    There are now feverish efforts being made to reorganise these funds and reconnect them to workers who pay tax. It may work but there are many hundreds of thousands of people who are reliant on the legal eagles to find a way to maintain their current returns.

    If Bill Shorten insists that Chris Bowen carry out the policy that Shorten announced, then no one in the industry and retail funds and of course the self-managed funds, would be able to receive the cash franking credit and we would have a major horror story for the market.

    In fairness to the Coalition, it wasn’t until last week that Bill Shorten clearly set out the ALP's policy, and it became clear that Chris Bowen is doing something quite different.
    OlderandWiser
    13th Apr 2019
    9:18am
    Fear propaganda from a paid LNP righty troll
    Adrianus
    13th Apr 2019
    11:16am
    Yep, its not easy to plan a strategy under Labor's attempts at class warfare.
    My understanding is that Shorten and Bowen both are against the idea of the ATO treating lower income earners or SMSFs with smaller balances fairly by returning their franking credits. Where a SMSF is in pension mode with a zero tax rate and a super balance of less than $1.6 million, it won't be entitled to any refund of franking credits.
    Where an SMSF has an account balance greater than $1.6 million, the franking credits from share investments in accumulation mode will offset the 15 per cent tax charged on investment earnings. But any excess credits will be lost.
    Anonymous
    15th Apr 2019
    3:34pm
    You are an illiterate fool, SFR. I was quoting a reputable economist who was presenting a very objective view. Neither I nor he are 'trolls'. His statements (and most of mine) are verifiable fact, whereas you are clearly a Labor troll who never presents fact but always bigoted BS and insults.

    And by the way, I do NOT support the LNP. Never have. Never will. I deal in FACT about POLICY. I have no interest in political propaganda or stupid 'team backing'.