16th Sep 2015
Older Australians retiring in debt
Older Australians retiring in debt

Saving money to fund a comfortable retirement continues to be more difficult for the current generation of older Australians. A recent survey of more than 1000 Australians undertaken by finder.com.au, reveals that older Australians are carrying higher levels of debt into retirement than their parents did at the same time of their life, with adult children staying at home longer being a major contributing factor.

More than 37 per cent of older Australians told the survey that they are carrying significant debt. Michelle Hutchison from finder.com.au said these findings suggest that many Australians are under a misguided impression that they will be debt-free by the time they retire, but, currently, they may not be spending their money sensibly enough to ensure this will happen. The reality is that many Australians will never be debt-free in retirement, or ever for that matter, and that older people should also expect this outcome.

As a result of this study, Ms Hutchison believes that Australians need to be more conscious about repaying debt before they reach retirement.

Read more at The Age.

Opinion: The debt generation

With interest rates hitting record lows this year at two per cent, compared with 17.5 per cent in January 1990, you would expect it to be less difficult for Australians to repay their debts. But the reality is significantly different to this expectation, with credit card companies slugging customers between 17 to 21 per cent interest per annum on debt, and an increasing number of Australians falling over themselves to accept enticing credit card offers instead. 

What ever happened to the days when you either had to save up the money to buy an item or you simply went without? While there is a growing concern for the increase of older Australians entering retirement with debt, the greater fear must be for future generations who also seem to be even more inclined to spend money they don’t have.

With 53 per cent of Australians currently living in debt and one in 10 believing they will never be debt free, the ability to borrow high amounts of money at the interest rates offered should be questioned, especially for older Australians who are transitioning from a full-time wage to no wage in the next 15 years.

What do you think? Are Australians addicted to credit cards? Should there be as stringent measures in place for credit cards as there are for traditional lower interest rate loans? Should the system protect the consumer from falling too deep into debt? How does this affect you?





    COMMENTS

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    Franky
    16th Sep 2015
    10:24am
    I am debt free and have only ever had so-called 'good debt', debt used for investment where the returns were worth it to go into debt. I believe the key is better education. The banks love ignorant customers who are buying their credit. We should learn in school how the banking system works and how to use debt and how to manage our financial affairs through life to best effect. Unfortunately that is not in the interest of 'big business' nor the banks who profit from ignorance. The government is unlikely to push education in this area when they are funded by and ruling for big business. So maybe volunteer teachers could fill the gap?
    roy
    16th Sep 2015
    11:35am
    Unfortunately some people want to keep up with the Jones even if they can't afford to and that's the main reason for debt. Stop showing off people.
    Ronin
    16th Sep 2015
    3:12pm
    Am trying to get a programme up and running called 'Money Wealth & Happiness'. Its aim is to educate older schoolkids and school leavers/uni students as to what money really is, how the financial system works and how to utilise it to your best advantage, and why the Banks are not your friends.

    Will be interesting to see how much opposition it generates!
    roy
    16th Sep 2015
    4:22pm
    Ronin, I just hope that you don't get bumped off by the bankers so don't go out after dark.
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    8:02pm
    Being able to control even good debt is not achieved just through education but requires a complete change of mindset. I love my credit cards and flexible mortgage as they make me money not to mention all the free flights and accommodation etc I get as well. Debt is like fire a great slave but a bad master. My current debt levels are quite high but it doesn't worry me especially with such low interest rates.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    16th Sep 2015
    8:14pm
    My my, you do contradict yourself, Bonny! One minute you are receiving high investment returns and have plenty to retire on without a pension and the next you have high debt levels???? You've given the game away, it seems.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2015
    8:21pm
    My Bonny lies over the Ocean..
    My Bonny goes BLOOP BlooP BLOOP OoOoOo :-)
    Radish
    16th Sep 2015
    8:41pm
    I totally understand what you mean Bonny.
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    8:46pm
    Ha ha why can't I have it both ways. Shortly I will once again be free of debt and it will be time to finishing emptying that bucket list.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Sep 2015
    8:20am
    As long as your assets far outweigh your debts, you can rest easy. You can't take it with you once you're gone.
    Jim
    16th Sep 2015
    10:49am
    I often wonder how surveys arrive at the figures they come up with, I am approaching my 70th birthday, we have only ever been a single income family, the only real debt we ever had was our home mortgage which we paid off as soon as we were able, our home is very modest about 13 squares, we have never had a credit card or store cards, we have always lived within our means, and now we are enjoying a great retirement. I have to wonder how other people get into so much debt, I do see people driving around in petrol guzzling cars and 4 wheel drives so are people living way beyond their means or have I just been extremely lucky, It is not my intent to criticise other people and the predicament they find themselves in, we can't always know other peoples circumstances. The survey results seem to me to be quite high for older folk to be in so much debt when they retire. I guess I have to thank my wife and my lucky stars for our situation.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    11:52am
    Spot on Dim.
    Lyn
    16th Sep 2015
    2:02pm
    So right. We have always been one income family and didn't live beyond our means. Now enjoying retirement.
    marls
    16th Sep 2015
    7:01pm
    dim
    things have changed not everyone is fortunate enough to have had a lovely live, some of us like me had no family support and I ended up raising 4 children on my own, with no financial support working shifts and doing a degree via correspondence also leaving me with a big debt. I was lucky to have a good paying job in the pat 20yrs and finally paid my mortgage aged 63 after I got sick and tired of driving 4hrs daily to work. I am living off my super
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    16th Sep 2015
    8:17pm
    I also lived on a meagre income but retired without debt and with savings, thanks to being taught very early in life how to manage money. But things might not have gone so well if the medical bills we encountered early in life for a special needs child or the sickness we suffered in middle age had continued. We should not be too judgmental. It doesn't take much misfortune to plunge someone into debt. It's not always a result of overspending or carelessness.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    8:37pm
    Well done marls. Life can be a bugger but you persisted and came out on top. A lesson there.
    Wise words Rainey.
    Radish
    16th Sep 2015
    8:42pm
    Living within your means is what it is all about. If you cannot afford it; don't buy it.

    Not a bad idea to find our your credit score. I have and it is free.
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    8:48pm
    Yes I got my credit score but my toy boy doesn't have one at all.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2015
    8:50pm
    Hand the Controls back to Dad will ya ? :-)
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    9:19pm
    A blow up model Bonny?
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    9:39pm
    No he is not full of hot air.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    9:53pm
    Then doing his job eh.
    Morgan
    16th Sep 2015
    11:24am
    We retired with no debt. However we are still living in our very modest weatherboard house which we purchased not long after we married. Our friends and family have debt and grander houses - who is 'right'?
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    11:53am
    Sounds a bit odd. So what happened to a lifetime of income?
    Jim
    16th Sep 2015
    12:53pm
    You are right, we are much the same, bought our home in 1967 and still living in it, no debt, most of my friends are in the same boat, must be something about the era we were born, I know not everyone is in the same boat as Us and quite often the cause was beyond their control, but I'm equally sure that many people didn't take care of their finances when working and are all the worse off now, you can only spend your money once unfortunately.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2015
    8:26pm
    Not another one with HIGH WAGES and NO MEDICAL BILLS and assorted other non Misfortunes of life ? Surely !!
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    8:34pm
    Achieving a comfortable retirement is a lot more than "high wages". You mentioned a few but missed the hard work (including when other Australians are off having fun), denial, persistence and finding reasons not to spend the dough you have. Not many can hack that list...but it does lead to a good place later in life....as long as health is with you. So far so good mate.
    Sorry that you have drawn the short straw particolor.
    Radish
    16th Sep 2015
    8:44pm
    It is not the amount you earn; it is how you manage it.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2015
    8:54pm
    No short straws here Mick !! I was having Sympathy with others ! :-)
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    9:18pm
    Empathy is a wonderful quality. "I like the boy...".
    Queensland Diva
    16th Sep 2015
    11:34am
    We have debt currently but hopefully will be able be debt free when we retire. Downsizing to a small home is the way to go for us, and a move to the country. It's very tough out there in the "real" world and I feel very sorry for people who have this problem. We came back from almost being bankrupt so I am feeling blessed.
    roy
    16th Sep 2015
    11:46am
    Quensland Diva Well done to get back from bankruptcy.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    11:54am
    It is admirable that life almost crushed you and you did not give up and put the hand out. Congratulations. There should be more of you in our nation.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    12:28pm
    Did that come out right? I think you know what I meant.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    11:51am
    You are missing the point about societal change Drew. What you are talking about (saving) belongs to the good old days and few people these days save for anything; not even the family home....which many genYs have the expectation of buying with zero deposit. As for credit cards...well are considered to be 'free money' with little thought as to repaying the debt on these before interest cuts in.
    Whilst I have to admit that I have always been on the conservative side and always hated and tried to avoid debt this mentality has got me in the past when inflation was high and saving meant going backwards as asset prices took off. But now my wife and I live in relative comfort and, whilst we still have occasional money concerns, we can afford many things which others struggle to achieve. BUT WE HAVE NO DEBT and OWN OUR OWN HOME. That is the key to getting on without having to be on the social security bandwagon.
    Nan Norma
    16th Sep 2015
    12:00pm
    I have had two debts in my life and they were many years ago. My house and my first fridge. Both were paid off long before time. I just hate debt. I have always saved. My children tell my they are struggling then buy luxury items. I don't think younger know the difference anymore.I have a credit card. It costs me nothing. I have never paid interest becouse I transfer money into the credit card as soon as I've made a payment.
    Tom Tank
    16th Sep 2015
    12:06pm
    I retired with no debt, owned our own house and our two cars. We both have and use credit cards but pay them off each month, normally. In the past we used debt to finance various item we needed, not wanted but needed. The plan was always to retire debt free which we did.
    In current times our capitalistic system demands ever increasing consumption to ensure ever increasing profits. This leads to high pressure advertising which includes product placement in popular TV shows and movies.
    Younger generations have never had the education, be it at home or at school, that gave them an appreciation of the fact that borrowings must be paid back and the sooner the better. This tends to leave them at the mercy of the sharks of business, particularly banks, with on-selling at the point of sale etc.
    The answer has to be education but where? The parents of the youngest generation are the biggest spenders.
    Nan Norma
    16th Sep 2015
    12:54pm
    I made most of my children's and my clothes when it saved money. (Its cheaper o buy to day)We decorated our house. I made curtains etc.
    Morgan
    16th Sep 2015
    12:16pm
    Mick

    What happened to our lifetime of earnings? We lived and had children ????
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    12:30pm
    So did we Morgan and so did many others. And we were on a single average income.
    major01
    16th Sep 2015
    12:27pm
    I'm moving to Thailand for a better life, won't waste my time in tax city
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    12:30pm
    Not a bad idea. Many are. Hope you like heat, humidity and corrupt police. Enjoy!
    Radish
    18th Sep 2015
    8:30pm
    Just a little snippet I saw online that may be of interest re retiring overseas.

    "Previously, this rate change did not occur untiil a pensioner had been outside Australia for 26 weeks. However, in the 2015 Budget the Government announced that some pensioners will now have their pension rate reduced if they are absent from Australia for more than 6 weeks. After 6 weeks absence from Australia, pensioners who have lived in Australia for less than 35 year,s will be paid a reduced rate of benefit proportionate to their Australian residency based on their AWLR . Pensioners with more than 35 years AWLR will not be affected.

    Alternatively, you can make a claim for a pension without returning to Australia, if you are living in a country with which Australia has an International Social Security Agreement.

    Finally, one issue that many people overlook when considering retiring overseas is access to health care - international health insurance, particularly in retiree age groups, can be very expensive. And you cannot just rely upon going home to Australia when the need arises - if an emergency develops and you need to be evacuated to Australia at short notice it may cost $100,000 from some destinations."
    Koro
    16th Sep 2015
    12:36pm
    Having been a supporting parent on a single income for many years, I have, through living within my means and working hard to maintain a roof over our heads and providing the necessities with a little affordable luxury thrown in, retired at 59 yrs old debt free 14 years ago and still live modestly and comfortably.

    Sadly, I tend to agree that people need to live their life within their means instead of creating an image and trying to keep up with others that are in a more affluent position for whatever reason.

    In saying that, there are cases where unfortunate health circumstances or other family issues out of their control have maybe created a situation leaving some in a less that fortunate financial / housing situation and for those I feel deeply for them in having been dealt unforeseen blows throughout their lifetime.
    World Prophet
    16th Sep 2015
    1:01pm
    Totally agree with your sentiments there
    World Prophet
    16th Sep 2015
    12:53pm
    From what I have been able to ascertain, home owners free of debt can swing it on the pension alone, if a couple. Not a life of luxury, but it is feasible. Then, when eventually one partner dies, it becomes much more difficult. There is a substantial drop in income, even though the costs don't reduce by much. I can't for the life of me follow the logic in the single pension rate being so much less than the couple rate. It seems to me that this leads to inevitable hardship for the surviving partner. To stray back to the topic, yes, definitely super important to have no debt when retired.
    Kato
    16th Sep 2015
    1:06pm
    I through good luck or whatever you want to call it live debt free. Payed off the house had never had a brand new car . Struggled but got there. I have friends who obtained the same space but through drug addict children are nowforced to remortgage the home to provide for the grandkids so life can be a bitch for some through no fault of there own.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    1:15pm
    Granted.
    jeansievers
    16th Sep 2015
    1:13pm
    We have been living in a de t culture since 1970. The banks decided they could make big profits from consumer lending. With falling or stagnant incomes and banks willingness and banks willingness to lend to almost anyone increasing rates of debts should come as no surprise. If housing was more affordable and jobs more plentiful with a living stable wage then young people wouldnt need to live at home. So increasing levels of debt are forced on people not bad choices.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    1:17pm
    Rose coloured glasses methinks. We lived through interest rates hitting 17%. We also lived through huge increases in both asset prices and wages. No good blaming banks because there are so many who did really well in the same system.
    Cranky
    16th Sep 2015
    1:25pm
    I don't think it matters how much one saves or lives a careful life. It's more to do with how life deals out the cards...One disaster or health issue can completely alter a life, and give a losing hand. and some never recoup what they have lost. It's a matter of juggling what you've got and being mindful of what you have...
    jeansievers
    16th Sep 2015
    1:40pm
    Thats what the safety net is there for but they are trying to take it away.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    5:09pm
    A bit of truth in that cranky. Life's a bugar sometimes.
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    9:46pm
    You know you have made it when disasters become mere inconveniences. That how to overcome how life deals out the cards.
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    9:48pm
    I have had a health issue most would concern a real big disaster but looking back now it was a mere inconvenience as I had the resources to cope with it.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    9:52pm
    Ask Alan Bond how he went? Broke? In fact Bond stole a huge amount of money from Australian taxpayers so maybe it was an inconvenience to him.
    jeansievers
    16th Sep 2015
    1:28pm
    There are a few who did really well in the system I describe but if you look at the statistics the share of wealth in Australia for most Australians has been falling for years, in other wods the rich are getting richer and the rest of us are getting poorer. And who do you think Mick needs to rely on the aged pension?
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    5:17pm
    Certainly the rich are growing richer, helped along by the rich who control much of the political landscape. The main reason for my staunch opposition to the current government is that it has been trying from day 1 to pile more and more money into the bank accounts of the rich. You might have heard last night with the succession of Malcolm Turnbull that the business lobby called for cuts to company tax by as much as 50%.
    I'm on your side jeansievers. No need to shoot the messenger. I will not be getting $1 of pension but still be batting for you and people like you as I find it fundamentally wrong that this government wants to severely restrict the pension or better still do away with it altogether.
    jeansievers
    16th Sep 2015
    1:52pm
    Social security is paid for with the tax ordinary workers pay from their wages. The rich have many perks to lessen the tax they pay which are not available to the average person. I don' have to list them I am sure most of you know what they are. So what many of you are saying ordinary people with not much money can go live in a tent. It seems some think they are more entitled than others because they have worked the system and now they can say "Im alright Jack" too bad for you.
    jeansievers
    16th Sep 2015
    2:18pm
    Banks are for shareholders not savers. The banks need people to borrow so they make a profit for shareholders. There is profit in poverty. Manufacturing is shrinking or practically disappeared to slave labour economies in Asia. The share market is a Casino and only the really big investors can 'win' in that environment. The middle class is under attack and there is a propaganda campaign going on to blame ordinary people for the fall in living standards All this is deliberate the system has been totally corrupted by the 1%. The awful truth is they dont care. Who knows where all this will take humanity.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    5:19pm
    I like your post. You'll never read this in the mainstream media...which sanitizes 'news' so that people do not see the truth, if that's what you can call much of what is broadcast.heavily
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    8:37pm
    The 1% are now realising that the middle class are the engine room of an economy and without them economies suffer. If you have managed super then you are invested in the sharemarket. Anyone can make money in the sharemarket all you do is buy things at bargain prices and sell at boutique prices. It's called bargain hunting.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    8:45pm
    Bonny: you are one out of the box. The 1% want it all and in the US have turned the middle class into working class. And still they clamour for "lower taxes". Its obscene. Australia is getting there too. Give it time.
    mangomick
    16th Sep 2015
    9:06pm
    Don't know about calling the share market a casino, more like a giant Ponzi scheme. Like all Ponzi schemes things are fine till the music stops then someone is left standing without a chair. Alright to be in as long as you realise that and make sure you aren't the one left standing without the chai. I read the other day that only 1% of all retirees get an income over $1000 a week. Banks are for savers but the rules of compounding need to be taught to every one at an early age.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    9:16pm
    mangomick: being a shareholder I can attest to the fact that the sharemarket is no casino, for average investors at least. More like a Roman Arena. Not a Ponzi scheme either as companies which grow increase in value. That is where the real money is.
    Have been left without a chair before. An unpleasant feeling indeed.
    Money in the bank may compound but whilst we have inflation you need to take the inflation rate off your interest rate. So if you are getting 3.5% and inflation is running at 2% then you are making around 1.5% on your dough. Almost time to put it under the pillow.
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    9:37pm
    Mick add tax into the mix as well and you will be going backwards.

    The only difference between real estate and the sharemarket is that the sharemarket is valued frequently and real estate infrequently. Value each over similar time frames and you get similar results.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    9:49pm
    You don't pay tax unless you make a profit.
    The share market has been shown to give better return over time. Add to that the fact that we have close to the highest real estate prices on the planet and you need to worry. PEs are high but given that interest rates are so low maybe still ok. So which would you pick? The rock or the hard place?
    Sundays
    16th Sep 2015
    2:55pm
    We were not always frugal, but had good jobs to pay for our lifestyle. However, at 50 we decided that we had to pay off debt and save extra into superannuation. In our 60s living a comfortable retirement. Many friends did not have the same wake up call and are either still working, or struggling in retirement. They Just can't seem to accept the concept of living within their means. Agree with the article
    jeansievers
    16th Sep 2015
    3:35pm
    Ronin your idea is brilliant people have to realize it's a 'jungle' out there in the world of finance. One of the biggest rip offs is payday loans. People on low incomes use them to pay rent and buy food. Can't understand why it isn't illegal, they charge enormous interest rates.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    5:23pm
    There is a train of thought going around that you can't protect people from themselves. Wilkie tried with gambling legislation but both sides did not want a bar of it. Of course the fact that the Pubs and Clubs contribute to election funding coffers may have played a part here too.
    It saddens me that ordinary dumb people are so open for attack and destitution, after which the taxpayers picks up the tab. What a world we live in.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    5:24pm
    I often thank the Lord for his goodness and mercy. There go I but for the love of God.
    Charlie
    16th Sep 2015
    4:14pm
    I have managed to avoid debt most of my life and have always valued my freedom to do things over ownership of property. OK I don't own a house, I am renting, but most of the time I have had control over my life.
    One of the things that makes it hard to stay in control is the "in your face" advertising we tolerate, it is just straight out bad manners. Things popping up on the computer screen, TV ads concentrated during a popular movie, nice streamlined busses wrapped up to look like a circus, telephone marketing calls at night. Everywhere a person looks there is somebody trying to push material goods we don't need, or flash them in front of our eyes so remember to buy them later. I look away and frequently use the mute button on the TV.
    jeansievers
    16th Sep 2015
    4:22pm
    Right on Charlie we are saturated with advertising.
    roy
    16th Sep 2015
    4:58pm
    I very very rarely watch anything "live" on the t/v, I record programmes and watch them later. That way I can just speed through the adverts without being driven crackers by the inane adverts for garbage like McDonalds etc. The worst in my view is channel 72 which seems to have 5 minutes of programme and then 5 mins of adverts completely ruining programmes like Morse etc. Why don't we all do the same and maybe something would happen. Is there no enterprising company out there which would bring out a way of recording programmes with the adverts already blocked out, I would pay good money to such a company. The junk food adverts are a big problem and causing the obesity crisis in this country, I have never been in a McDonalds in my life and never will.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    5:27pm
    Never been into Maccas. Thought you were a bit strange longdistancerunner. But then anybody who carries on about commies and lefties is not all there methinks.
    I do agree with living on junk food. Bad, expensive and to be avoided. But there are times when a take away is a necessity of life. Ask any traveller who gets off a 14 hour flight on his/her way to an adjoining one.
    roy
    16th Sep 2015
    5:56pm
    Mick. You should do some research on the "food" in Maccas before you call me strange. i have been on many a 14 hour flight or longer and still have never been in a McDonalds and to repeat never will and I have many friends who think the same way.
    roy
    16th Sep 2015
    6:01pm
    Mick, Google Mcdonalds food unfit for human consumption, it may open your eyes but no doubt thousands will still visit those "holes" but not me.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    8:25pm
    The point is not that I like the product. The point is that this is a 3 or 4 times a year meal for my wife and I, not a staple. Home prepared food always better.
    If you interviewed enough people I am sure that they would agree.
    roy
    16th Sep 2015
    10:35pm
    Mick, and there's me thinking you are an intelligent man and yet you eat McDonalds even if only 4 or 5 times a year. I would not dream of taking my wife into one of those grotty holes but there we are, it takes all sorts.
    MICK
    17th Sep 2015
    2:04pm
    I've got a university degree. NSW, not Western Sydney! Does that count.
    There are things known as 'checks and balances' and eating at Maccas when necessary is both cost effective, somewhat nourishing (really!) and not bad on health.
    Methinks your position is more obsessive compulsive than health orientated or just plain common sense.
    And yes I have seen the stories about the 7 year old burger bun which is still in mint condition. Why do you think I do not eat these things often?
    jeansievers
    16th Sep 2015
    4:43pm
    Many aged pensioners get into debt for their children ie rent, food, education, dentist, healrh, psychological help. Some pay for grandchildren and even mortgage their houses so their children can get a start in life. Others buy cars for their children so they can get to work. Some poverty is hidden because of all the support given by our generation. It is not wise to judge others after pride and self satisfaction comes a fall.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    5:33pm
    And don't forget going guarantor so that your children can get a house...and then a couple of months later they buy a $95,000 car. Painful.
    The lesson methinks is to put away the heartstrings and make children stand on their own 2 feet, only helping when they show financial maturity and common sense....hunger and illness not included of course.
    roy
    16th Sep 2015
    5:52pm
    Mick.Hear hear, well said, it's that keeping up or getting in front of the Jones attitude when they are not on the same income that causes so many problems.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    8:29pm
    Income often is not the main driver. Proper management, good financial forecasting and risk assessment are. It comes down to sensible investing. Gambling is risky.
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    8:31pm
    I can never understand why people do things to impress others that they can't stand anyway.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2015
    8:33pm
    Your Recent friend did !! :-)
    Radish
    16th Sep 2015
    8:47pm
    Article in paper at weekend re the emotional blackmail children are putting on their parents. i.e. they want them to go guarantor for their homes; parents too scared to say no. Some have lost their homes because kids defaulting on their mortgages.

    All I can say is if you are going to go down this path be very, very careful and get legal advice. personally I would never go guarantor for anyone. I worked too hard and for too long to get what I have.

    Elder abuse is alive and well and getting worse.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    9:10pm
    Often driven out of love Radish.
    Sadly it appears that some genY children are scoundrels who have chosen to forget who fed them and looked after them as they grew to adulthood and whose expectations of their parents defy all logic. Perhaps the price of indulging children as they grow up rather than teaching them the value of hard work, saving and achieving goals.
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    9:42pm
    Just lend them the money via a mortgage and then when they sell you get it back. If you die and your will becomes a testimony trust the trust can get it back after your death.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    9:46pm
    Ahhhhh....and the best laid plans of mice and men. A possible solution though. Imagine the discussion over the dining room table when the word "mortgage" from mum and dad comes out. Choose your weapons gentlemen.
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    10:53pm
    I guess if they don't like then they miss out.
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    10:56pm
    I know of a young fellow who has saved a deposit for a house but told his girlfriend it was a loan from his parents and even has a loan document to say so. They split up Mum and Dad get the deposit back and she get half of what's left. Young fellow then get his deposit back to buy another house.
    Oldman Roo
    16th Sep 2015
    5:30pm
    After being lectured yesterday on this forum by a staunch Liberal Supporter that I should have saved enough during my working life to live free of welfare , I feel a lot better now after reading this story , and should now get over my depression and inferiority complex that I somehow did not make the grade in life and have to rely on a part Pension .
    Of course this attitude should be nothing surprising to me coming from one of the new style Liberals who certainly have a total lack of compassion for the less fortunate in life .
    Regrettably our Politicians share a lot of blame for the unhealthy financial situation of a large number of the population . Let them get back to the job they are supposed to do and govern in the best interest of the average Australian and not for themselves or helping the rich to get richer .
    jeansievers
    16th Sep 2015
    5:36pm
    How refreshing thankyou for saying how it really is.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2015
    6:49pm
    You get them on here Oldman Roo ! I think they are all Retired Factory Managers and Retired Government Leeches !! :-) And now that Tony's gone I don't know Who's going to Employ some of them ? :-) :-)
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    9:21pm
    Have not seen a lot og Frank the past couple of days. I wonder if he had his hours cut?
    particolor
    17th Sep 2015
    10:57am
    He will be Reinstated as Frankenstein Mick ! When they get back on their feet ! :-)
    You must have a sparring Partner ! :-) :-)
    MICK
    17th Sep 2015
    2:00pm
    What? Not Solomon, wally, Pete and a host of other dubious posters?
    I followed a link to a Shorten twitter post yesterday. EVERY COMMENT was a Frank comment. Dozens and dozens of them. Does it sound like the leader changed and the troops were at work?
    jeansievers
    16th Sep 2015
    5:47pm
    Most people would accept the government has a duty of care to protect the population. We are required to wear seatbelts. Why is that because lots of people were needlessly injured in accidents. Why can-t the government set up a system to protect people from a corrupt financial system? Its the same principle.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2015
    6:54pm
    Just to Add I think Pensions will need a Crash Hat after this ER UM Pension Adjustment :-(
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    8:09pm
    What is wrong with debt? It's a great way to make lots of money.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    8:47pm
    Nothing wrong with debt is your gamble pays off and if you can sleep at night when you are down to the last $1.
    Rae
    17th Sep 2015
    10:21am
    After the pension adjustments watch the shopping centres. If they are empty then the legislation has failed. The aged pension goes up $30 a fortnight so that might help.
    I was in the US in 2009 and the malls were empty. It was surreal and very scary.
    The Christmas retail figures will be interesting as well.

    Debt has made a lot of money Bonny but I suspect the bond markets are in strife now.
    MICK
    17th Sep 2015
    1:58pm
    2009 was less than a year after the GFC. Remember that many millions of Americans lost their jobs. This is what our government trolls on this website never mention when they crow on about the debt: that Australians were not thrown out of work.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2015
    6:42pm
    Its Flamin Hopeless and nothing will change real soon ! :-(
    Gut I am Debt Free And aim to stay that way by going without !! ... :-)
    particolor
    16th Sep 2015
    7:28pm
    But I am Debt Free.. That is :-)
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    8:07pm
    Debt is wonderful. It allowed me to give up my job at a early age and retire. Even today I use to debt to finance opportunities which is so much better than having to rely upon welfare in retirement.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2015
    8:22pm
    Now come at us again in English this time :-)
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    8:27pm
    That is English and yes I just love debt or rather the ability to borrow money cheaply and invest it for a higher return pocketing the difference. That's what banks do so why not follow their example.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2015
    8:31pm
    That is not the way I interpreted it in the first place ! I thought You were Smothered in Debt ! And that Aint Pleasant !! :-(
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    8:39pm
    I guess to most people I would be smothered in debt at times.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    8:50pm
    I've rolled the dice too Bonny. Win some, lose some. A nasty feeling when you do $20,000.
    You are either a savvy operator, lucky or full of BS. Have not decided which one.
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    8:55pm
    I never gamble as that's a mugs game. I'm regularly up or down more than $20,000 on my investments which is just the way it is.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    9:05pm
    Of course you are aware that the Australian economy is predicted to hit a very hard brick wall. And then deflation is also predicted and the oil price, which affects everything we consume, is already down by about 60%. You know what happens to the price of assets when deflation starts....but you still owe the banks what you borrowed.
    Sleep well at night. I think that you are rolling the dice. Good luck that they have fallen in your favour to date.
    What do they say in financial disclaimers: "past performance is no guarantee of future performance"?
    Oh to see the future.........
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    9:29pm
    Why has the price of oil fallen? Nothing more than the oil cartel realising that by doing so they are shoring up their future money flows by using low oil prices to promote growth and stop stagflation. It doesn't matter to me if Australia hits a brick wall or not and certainly doesn't affect my sleep at night. Having money invested at 2% in a bank and going backwards due to inflation and tax would though.

    I don't take any notice of past performances myself.

    Did you know that the big 4 banks have increased their home loan interest rates in last few days? Where was the media on this one?
    particolor
    16th Sep 2015
    9:33pm
    The price of Petrol is going UP !
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    9:43pm
    I'd be willing to bet that dropping the oil price is an attempt to kill of renewables.
    Have not noticed banks increasing mortgage rates but the financial markets have been awaiting the Fed to increase rates. Did not happen. Well not yet. If they do then the US share market will go into meltdown. Ours will follow.
    We live in interesting times. A few callers are banking on the above...when, not if. Good luck.
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    9:45pm
    That's the government taking a bit more all the time as the price of oil is going sideways.
    particolor
    16th Sep 2015
    9:49pm
    Mick.. I have no Idea how to work that letter box in there ? I get a Title but that's it :-(
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    9:59pm
    When the Fed increases interest rates by 0.25% the sharemarkets both here and in the US will rally.

    Dropping the oil prices has little to do with renewals but more to do with getting rid of the high cost US shale oil companies. Renewals still have a ways to go to complete with oil but renewals are driven by sentiment not mere money.
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    9:59pm
    Bonny: the government takes a PERCENTAGE. The oil price has nothing to do with the government.
    Time to get the toyboy out of the closet methinks.
    Bonny
    16th Sep 2015
    10:05pm
    Toy boy just found me a picture!
    MICK
    16th Sep 2015
    10:09pm
    Huh????
    whatsupdok
    17th Sep 2015
    12:24am
    Oh, you're either lucky, smart, not lucky or incompetant. But is there any mention of helping anyone else with no assumed expectation of return or reward outside of your own kids? Lucky you to have enough to sleep clean and comfortable. Do actually fret over which coffin in your own private piece of eternal dirt to lie in. Be sure to leave it all to the spoilt kids who won't need it and will burn thru it in less time than it takes your bones to rot. Selfish, Selfish people.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Sep 2015
    8:31am
    Do you ever sleep Whatsupdok? It's very unlikely many kids will ever be able to own their own home, so many parents are thinking of saving their home for their kids if they can do it. This is why I worked at getting another property which I use like a bank account. With a bit of luck and these days you need that, I might be able to leave my kids with somewhere to sleep that's their own.
    sirmikd
    17th Sep 2015
    9:01am
    QUOTE "It's very unlikely many kids will ever be able to own their own home,
    I might be able to leave my kids with somewhere to sleep"

    If your kids cant buy a house you might be part of the problem. They will have no incentive to stand on their own feet - if they are still living at home after age 20 - kick them out so they learn how to survive without you or the government giving handouts. Sell your second property and enjoy what YOU have earnt !
    MICK
    17th Sep 2015
    1:56pm
    You have a point sirmikid. Luckily both mine have their feet firmly planted on the ground and number 2, after years of laughing at mum and dad working their butts off renovating and investing, is now doing the same. I consider myself one of the lucky ones. But they did have a good example to learn from......which is not quite what the neighbours used to say as they went on holidays and we were working....what else did we ever do!
    Paulodapotter
    17th Sep 2015
    8:22am
    As long as your assets far outweigh your debts, you can rest easy. You can't take it with you once you're gone.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Sep 2015
    8:24am
    One of the proud boasts of me ol' Dad was that his father died owing nothing and having nothing but his house with his mother comfortably parked in it.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Sep 2015
    8:25am
    Swap wife for mother (I meant me ol' Dad's mother )
    MICK
    17th Sep 2015
    1:53pm
    Unless you get rampant deflation and asset price keep going down. This is the prediction....albeit timeframe unknown.
    sirmikd
    17th Sep 2015
    8:52am
    It seems pretty obvious that Financial Management should be a mandatory subject at school so that when people enter the workforce they have an understanding of how to handle their "newly acquired personal" income for their future benefit. This might cover how to budget properly and fundamental stuff like what is an asset,equity,liabilities,how banks and the stock market work and how if you spend money on consumables before you have earned it will lead to trouble whilst borrowing to buy appreciating assets will overtime increase your wealth - give up smoking,and drinking not for moral purpose but because what you spend on that in a lifetime will go a long way to buying a house - not to mention you might live longer to enjoy it.

    Most people who now live reasonably well in retirement do so because they were prudent in their working life and not because they were born into some sort of privileged situation. Most will have had problems to overcome.
    BB1
    17th Sep 2015
    1:13pm
    The one thing that helped me over the years was a book I read in the 1960's called "hidden persuaders"
    Gee, it opened my eyes, and also having worked in a bank for a couple of years was of great help to me.
    Only got Debit Cards and my other favourite, GE Credit where I use the Interest free component.

    18th Sep 2015
    4:09pm
    Many may have missed the fact that the debts come also from those adult children staying at home or returning.
    jeansievers
    18th Sep 2015
    6:30pm
    One of the things about this discussion about aged pensioners having debt is there seems to be a total blindness to the wider geo political and economic circumstances that are contributing to some people's difficulties financially and personally. When the global financial crisis happenied many peiple lost as much as one third of their savings and this wffected their retirement plans. Its's all very well for some to say it is good but you have to be able to service the debt. The landlords of today have effectively kept young people out if the housing market and also this has driven up the price of houses. Rents are extremely high so it would be expected many young people would live at home longer. With the casualisation of work do some of you realiase how difficult it is for people to earn a living wage It's time for some to have more enpathy for the young. It is a favourie passtime of the media and politicians to play the game of demonising the less well off by blaming them for bot being able to survive in a system rhat is rigged for a minority.
    KB
    18th Feb 2016
    5:49pm
    I agree entirely. Ii s harder for young people to save. The reason why adult children live at home is that rentals are more expensive, The majority of work available is contract or temporary, My daughter has just scored temporary work. Not enough to pay rent so she will pay contributions to household expenses to me instead, Where work is concerned young people go on a merry go round. The lack of full time work in Australia is the reason why the bright young people go overseas where there are more opportunities. I do not have any credit cards because I do not want to be in debt. I believe in saving for things that I really meed. Thank you for your support for young people.
    jeansievers
    18th Sep 2015
    6:32pm
    On phone sorry for mistakes have hand tremor
    jeansievers
    18th Sep 2015
    6:32pm
    On phone sorry for mistakes have hand tremor
    kayjon
    21st Sep 2015
    12:55pm
    In relation to your teeth, recently I had to have a bridge for my front worn out ones, had a quote from my local dentist of many years, wait for it $5100.00was absolutely stunned, so in chatting to a friend who lives in Thailand said you can get it a lot cheaper up there , so of I went got the Bridge along with a cap for Aussi $1000.00 do I need to say any more, as it would have cost me nearly $7000.00 for the bridge and cap inAussi
    So jump a cheap Air Asia flight and get a goodly teeth repair upgrade I did and have never enjoyed food so much now....
    Not Senile Yet!
    23rd Sep 2015
    12:49am
    No one wants educated consumers...least of all the Banks or even worse still Governments!!!
    That is why a free education was done away with.....it is also why those who are wealthy send their kids to private school!!!
    The system now needs the bottom feeders to be in debt...whether for credit or for the Dream Home!!!
    Propaganda now feeds the young into borrowing from early age!!!
    Our Governments are consistently removing any obstacles from the Banks and big business to sell products based on borrowing rather than protecting the ignorant or uneducated from the fine print!!!
    But Our Governments have become the puppets to big business through a Party System that most believe they have not alternative to!!!
    This too is also ignorance!!! Ignorance by not being educated about how the system of Government works!!!
    Long ago both Parties blocked Political Education in our schools because it does not serve their interests for us to understand just how they work the system to their advantage!!!
    But it is not Rocket Science.....put the Person that has NO alliance or is not owing someone for being elected other than the Voters!
    This person is an Independent!!!!
    They become the Wild Card that the Parties have to negotiate with to Pass anything!!!!
    The More Independants in Both Houses....the harder it is for the parties to Control the outcome.....in short they have to work harder than ever to Pass anything!!!!
    No more MP's just rubber stamping whatever is proposed by the Parties......Negotiation becomes the Main Key to any change.....as it should be....as it was meant to be......that is democracy!!!!
    Vote all the Party puppets out of Parliament if you really want change.....if you really want to stop the Party Corruption of OUR System!!!
    PIXAPD
    26th Oct 2015
    6:53am
    I do know that there are folks on the full aged pension, who rent and yet are still able to save up to $600 a month from that pension, over $6,000 a year. The pension for those folks is $996.40 a fortnight, the combined payment of Age Pension $788.40, Energy Supplement $14:10, Pensions Supplement $64:50 and maximum Rent Assistance $129:40. Then you get $2:50 daily cap for travel on train, bus and ferry; free car rego, free licence, discounts on gas and electrity bills and other perks. I have no complaints, but just saying a person can save up to $600 a month out of the full aged pension, and that does not mean a bread and water diet or not being able to enjoy life.

    As to being in debt folks need to learn this simple truth, the rich rule over the poor and the borrower is slave to the lender. Owe nothing, have no debts.


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